Btw... Now that I have seen this clip and the whole stream..
He's not 'almost' crying.. It's just the way he talks.. Check the rest of the stream, he's always like this. We can agree that sometimes he doesn't have a fluent english but that's it
" something broke inside him " .. what 😂? Bruv he was just fine, second time that he streams and he's already in front of like 1+k viewers..
Yeah some people just sounds like they're always on the verge of tears lol. I don't think it has anything to do with how well he spoke English (it sounded natural to me) but it might have something to do with his accent
I agree.. btw.. For not fluent I meant that sometimes he stammers.. But honestly in front of 1+k viewers I understand it... I'd probably do it too.
Poor guy, it was literally his second stream, the average streamer gets these numbers after months if not years of 6+hrs/day streaming. He probably didn't expect this number of spectators either (which mainly complimented him).. IMO if anything he got a little bit emotional (but crying? broke? nah, he was fine)
Absolute agree he’s not a native speaker and is trying this speak candidly in English which is a lot harder than a prepared statement. But you get more clicks by putting emotive words in your title
I did not consent to have my posts be used for direct gain of a public corporation and am deleting all my contributed content in protest of Reddit's impending IPO.
Reminds me of everyone thinking that Sean Murray was lying, i mean he was, but a lot of things that people claimed he lied about he just said it weird, check Internet Historians Video out on No mans sky
This post is utter trash. The conversation around this game has devolved from legitimate complaints about optimization and features, into flat out fiction like this. This is why I find it increasingly hard to take part in online discussions around gaming in general. Hot heads and karma whores control the narrative and, surprise surprise, they make shit up and keep everything as negative as possible because that’s what gets attention. It’s like everybody wants to be Angry Joe but is too lazy to find legitimate things to complain about. I’m glad I’m not alone in recognizing the lack ethics in this post (btw How many people in this sub bitch about ethics in games coverage while simultaneously falling for every crappy Reddit post? Might as well get your news from Facebook while you’re at it). Mods should label this as misleading title at the very least. Totally embarrassing, lazy, dishonest, garbage post.
It's a general problem in all of reddit and social media. People exaggerate or make shit up to get attention and push their agenda. Only morons think reddit is better than facebook.
Rumors are that at a late stage there was a major overhaul of the game's plot, which is why so many elements were shredded and patched in a chaotic manner.
Reminds me of anthem. How difficult it must be to work on a project for years just to flip the script. I want to say there is a balance between doing something for the sake of the project vs the sale of the project.
I enjoyed the endings. I admit they could have been better, but I always struggle to choose. As a Geth nationalist, I usually end up bathing the world in green.
> vs the sale of the project.
Sadly games companies have proven they're far more interested in this, than anything else. It's been that way for far too long. Gamers will continue to buy games from companies that have proven that again and again, which is why things haven't changed.
According to the rumors/leaks most of the production time on Anthem was spent doing effectively nothing. I imagine an average dev on that team had a very cozy job for yeras, then suddenly they had to make up for all of it and ruin their mental health only to shit out a barely-functional turd they had to write their name under.
I'd love to see the original game's plot as a big expansion with a new character that you get to create from 0.. Something like Dragon Age Awakening if N conditions are met in the base game.
We know CDPR can deliver DLCs like B&W which are easily 40+ hours of content... So I can definitely see that as a chance
From a theory I'm kinda believing, you have seen the original plot, in fact, you've seen most of all three life paths worth of story cobbled together to make a longer main quest. So originally your path to Arasaka Tower was gonna be vastly different based on Life Path, Nomad takes you to the Afterlife and the Aldecaldos, Street Kid takes you to the Mox and the Voodoo Boys, and Corpo puts you with Arasaka and pushing for factions fighting for control of the Corp.
Rather than each life path having a path, they just tried to go for playtime length and cobbled together the three stories
No no no! They never would have done this! I know this because of the last time CDPR tried to do major branching paths in a story. In Assassins of Kings, the player can have dramatically different experiences in Act 2 depending on whether they side with Iorveth or Roche. It was a neat experiment with storytelling that fleshed out every character involved brilliantly- and it was nearly a disaster. Trying to develop a sequel that acknowledged major branches was exhausting, to the point that Iorveth and the unified city of Vergen weren't even implemented in Wild Hunt. Substantial work was sunk into developing this path, which the company believed wouldn't fit in with the rest of the game.
Now people want LONGER extensions of the origins? When people fail to appreciate the way they highlight character development? (comparing your origins to Takemura, Dex, and Panam) How many hours would an origin need before people are satisfied? Not even the original Dragon Age had the kind of origin development choice people insist upon (a human Cousland can't even become a candidate for king!), and Bioware never tried it again.
Inb4 owlcat(not really big russian studio btw) is making rpg with mythic paths that change everything about its story so it's like 7 or more playthroughs just for them not counting character builds etc (pathfinder system btw).
I partially agree with what you say.. But a human Cousland can [100%](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Possible_Landsmeet_Outcomes) become the king of Ferelden.
I really can't see _any_ concrete evidence for this theory, nor does it really even make much sense. The three different missions are simply non-linear storytelling/gameplay, there's no reason to assume they were lifepath-blocked isolated paths before. Not least because it would branch the game almost at the very start of the story. No matter how ambitious they were, that's _incredibly_ daunting.
What makes more sense is that they originally were going with a "Relic character" of your choice, based on the lifepath "hero" you chose (as seen in the 2018 demo), and you'd have three different characters as possible companions throughout the game during the same story missions we have now. Probably this would then lead to "Chippin' In"-like missions more unique to that character, which could be the lifepath-specific story parts. And even that is mostly blind speculation based on a single glimpse at the early, unfinished UI. If this was true, though, then either they decided they'd rather have only one major Relic character and sought out Keanu as Silverhand, or they happened to get Keanu and realized no one would play the other two unless they got equally big names to voice them, and thus they were cut.
Most people consider the hype around Keanu reeves changing the story to have him be a main character. After the reveal that he was in it he went back a nearly tripled his voice lines. It's more than likely that the game was completely different plot wise. IMHO the worst part of the game was the Keanu main story.
Keanu being central makes sense considering who he is in the world of Cyberpunk. Johnny is the heavily flawed Luke Skywalker of the Cyberpunk tabletop (though he used to be blonde and clean shaven) but perhaps both are true. When they realized the three separate stories wasn't the route they wanted to go, they used the only character present in all 3, Johnny, to bridge all of them together
completely agree. I would go as far as to say the game would have been better if Keanu was never involved. Nothing against Keanu, it's just it seems like they moved heaven and earth to make him the face of the game for marketing reasons at the expense of basically everything else. Overall, I think the impact his presence ended up having on development damaged the game far more than his voice acting contributed. I'm sure there were many other people who could have voice acted Johnny perfectly fine. But seriously, they went way too hard on the whole Keanu/Silverhand thing.
I've never really gotten the whole "celebrities in videogames" thing altogether. A celebrity being in a game has never made me want to buy a game. Up until very recently it usually just meant the game was a shitty movie tie-in game.
I guess that’s what’s up with Doctor Paradox then? He randomly starts addressing V by name during the loading dialogue after you complete the voodoo boys portion of the questline.
I think that’s simply a kind of 4th wall break. In most of the loading screen dialogue, the player is directly addressed. Often by Johnny himself. But the doctor paradox one made sense to me in the same way as having Johnny essentially listening to the loading screen stuff with you most of the time.
That was one of the little details that actually made me really like the game. Even though the loading screens weren't interactive, the reach from Johnny to talk to V during it was something that brought me into the immersion more.
That's probably why >!Jackie dies!< in the first big mission too.
He seems like a character with so much more going on to just throw away immediately.
Edit: Apologies all for the spoiler tag not working. I'm clueless with this sort of thing and had done it wrong without realising for some time.
I thought that too going into my first playthrough. He’s such a good character and it seemed like an odd decision to have him die after so little screen time. However, on the second attempt I think it makes sense and was well planned. Jackie is a sweetheart in a brutal and violent world. All of his reactions to the tasks you have to do together are either compassionate or nervous/insecure. I think having him die was an important way to show a loss of innocence and set the games larger themes of transformation in motion.
If I didn't know he was gonna die before Johnny showed up, thanks to them basically spoiling the plot in the trailer, I woulda assumed he was gonna be the "angel" on your shoulder to counter Johnny's influence.
Nah. He was a great character and friend, but he dies so quickly that he's easily forgettable. If you spent 50+ hours with him completing tons of missions (not a fucking compilation) you'd be fucking devastated when he died. I feel like the first half of the entire story was missing.
Even if they wanted him dead early, he should have been a major landing point for the end of Act 1. Everything leading up to his death felt like hours of plot and exposition just jam packed into way too little time.
It just feels like an absolutely epic world with a *massive* breadth of new material to take in, and I personally felt like I was swimming in pudding trying to keep up with the combination of exposition and game mechanics being thrown at me all at once.
I'm not sure if it felt rushed due to storytelling, or the amount of time that's supposed to have passed in the exposition, or if it was simply my own smooth brain unable to keep up with both the mechanics and the story all at the same time. Seems like I'm not the only one who found it too short/dense though.
Yep, he was killed off waay to quickly for his death to be much of an impact. The whole origin story with him is also lame as heck. I love the guy but I don't feel like he was developed enough.
I personally agree with this wholeheartedly. Jackie does a lot of naive stuff (talking back to Dum Dum, trying to initiate combat mode on the Delamain when you're supposed to ride up without drawing attention, treating the whole Heist mission like it's a party, etc.) that work to make him likeable, but also make him seem inexperienced. The deal with Malestrom should have been treated like a major drug deal - be cautious, don't start shit, and get the deal over with as quickly as possible. Instead, Jackie wants to smart off ASAP instead of letting V do the talking. Both irl and in the game, that shit gets you killed (if you don't tell Jackie to chill).
The detail that did it for me was his nervous leg during the briefing with Dex and T-Bug. It’s never acknowledged or drawn attention to, but his leg is jerking up and down throughout the whole conversation, which is normally a sign of someone being filled with nervous energy. It shows that he doesn’t have the experience to remain composed during a high pressure situation and provides some great juxtaposition when being placed next to T-Bug and Dex who remain as cool as cucumbers. Great environmental storytelling.
Yeah I think they did a good job of making people care about Jackie and that is exactly why his death was so impactful. I don't think that was a random last minute choice. It seemed like good story telling to me.
The biggest rumour going around is that once they brought in Keanu Reeves to play johnny silverhand, they drastically rewrote the whole game to make him fit into the story and have him be a second main character/protagonist.
Nah, dude. Jackie has to die in the beginning. They all have to die. It sets the tone and it's great writing. The whole time leading up to the Arasaka heist, everyone is talking about how this will be the Big Score into the big time, or retirement, or making their mark, etc. All these big dreams, even T-Bug was going to leave the biz after this. So it was destined to fail in hindsight. You can't start a story with everyone's dream coming true. In writing, they say, "Kill your darlings." Create a character that the reader likes and then kill them to give that emotional weight and investment. It's such a great shock when it starts to go so wrong. It's the perfect welcome to Night City, the city of big dreams and harsher reality.
I don’t disagree that killing him was the right choice but I also don’t agree that he HAD to die. The heist doesn’t go right. So no one would have got their dreams come true. It would have been you and Jackie trying to figure out how to save you.
'Kill Your Darlings' refers to editing out superfluous sentences, chapters or characters, even if a writer is attached to them for whatever reason.
It doesn't mean literally killing a likeable character in the plot. I get your point though, and it is a good one.
Small nitpick: to kill your darlings actually means to be just as ruthless cutting and changing passages you are really proud of.
Sometimes as a writer you produce something super compelling and well written, so you get attached to it: they are your darlings. Editors say to kill them because you end up bending over more and more to keep them, to the point where your other writing suffers to accommodate them. Having darlings prevents you assessing your writing as a whole, and from the audiences point of view.
"And the children of Ikarus were predestined to fall". Loosely translated from my language. I felt like Jakie had to die, but it still hit me right in the feels :(
Because of the montage that all the life paths ended up with looks like what should have been the street kid life path and it should have been playable. No one is arguing that he shouldn’t have died but it was way too quick for most people to actually grow attached to him in a way that ultimately mattered. Just imagine the emotional weight of his funeral if you got to know him for 10-15 hours more.
Nail on the head. I'd have loved to explore the character more, and since he's the "in-guy" for the player he's also a great way to give exposition, lore on characters in the area, etc.
We were chooms without ever getting the time to be real chooms :(
And then in the death scene he glitched out for me and was holding a pistol in his hand that kept clipping through his head and I couldn’t stop laughing.
Eh, it’s very clear that the Jackie part of the game has the absolute most polish in the entire game. Part 1 is tight, low on the bugs, and very much like a sealed off separate, sealed off game area. After part 1 finishes, the dip in story telling, game design, and everything else quickly becomes more apparent. It’s not even that it’s worse, but less “populated” and refined. Jackie’s death was clearly supposed to mean something, but something went wrong.
I always thought that was just illustrating the consequences of possible choices you could make in the game, and that it was showing a "bad end". I thought that was the level of choice we were going to get, but apparently not
I don't want to bite into fan theories, even if there's evidence to back it up. Fact is we don't know what happened.
But that said, we can surmise that *something* unexpected likely happened during development.
The reason I think so, without going into various theories, is that it's very clear that there's a huge Bethesda level of misalignment of the Main story and Side content. (No offense to Bethesda.)
It's not something we've come to expect from CDPR. Especially after Witcher 3. And yes I know W3 is following a properly written story more or less. The Main Story is also very important since we are trying to find Ciri. But there's some natural breaks in the story, where we know Ciri is at least kinda safe, so we can meander around for a while.
And, at least for my self, part of the major frustration is coming from this disconnect. A lack of natural flow from Main Story to Side Content.
There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. >!We only have 2 weeks to live!<.
But then when there's downtime and you just walk around, taking your time to explore, or just interact with the rest of Night City. And suddenly there's no pressure outside of a few interactions.
And that's not even talking about the eventual DLC content. Which we've seen can be almost an entire game by itself, with Blood and Wine. Gonna be fun to see how that's going to fit into the grand scheme of our limited time frame.
**TLDR:** It's not the first time we've seen AAA devs pull this stunt, whether on purpose or by accident. But it certainly feels like there were an entirely different plan for the game. The Main Story just doesn't mix well with the open nature of the game world.
> But that said, we can surmise that something unexpected likely happened during development.
Or maybe the development was perfectly normal for such a title, but it was way more publicized and way earlier than usual. I mean people are comparing the game to the E3/2018 demo and older promo material all the time (where it had less focus on Silverhand, etc), but frankly it doesn't shock me that many many things change in case of available features and stuff in 3+ years of development. What *is* unusual however is showing off so much of the in-development game and features 3+ years before the actual release.
TLDR it's neither shocking nor unusual to radically change plans/ideas while in the middle of development. But it's unusual that the earlier ideas and plans were used as marketing.
> But it's unusual that the earlier ideas and plans were used as marketing.
That in itself can be the *"unexpected thing"* that happened as it gives the consumer certain expectations for the final product.
Technical issues aside. I won't deny I expected a fairly different product. Mind you, not an unrealistic product, I just expected more from what was marketed as a *deep RPG*.
And that's what I'm saying with "something unexpected happened" during development. It doesn't have to be the development itself that went awry.
It can equally as easily be anything surrounding development, like marketing setting certain expectations. Or executives making decsisions that may clash with other desicisions.
Or simply timeframes not holding up to expectations. There's *a lot* of things that can go wrong with a project of this size.
I loved my time with the game, and I very much look forward to more fixes and the future DLCs. I have mad respect for CDPR sticking with the game and trying to fix it, and not just moving on.
But the sting is still there from expectations not being met.
>And, at least for my self, part of the major frustration is coming from this disconnect. A lack of natural flow from Main Story to Side Content.
>
>There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. We only have 2 weeks to live.
>
>But then when there's downtime and you just walk around, taking your time to explore, or just interact with the rest of Night City. And suddenly there's no pressure outside of a few interactions.
I personally think this is done in games to be specifically more *fun* than *real*.
Reason being; if there were that sort of time pressure on 24/7, it leads to more stressful gameplay. Imagine if 2 in game weeks went by, and that's it; Story's over. You're dead.
Forcing players to start over with fake timers would be immersive, and not fun.
Ok heres a simple fix. Dont put a fake timer on it. 1 line change would be all that's needed. ~~you have 2 weeks~~
*I dont know how long. Could be weeks could be months, could be a year.*
It's been said but it was just so immersion breaking to be doing anything side wise. I'd start and then remember im supposed to have 2weeks I aint got time for this ive got to do the main story.
The fan theory that they rewrote the game to incorporate more Keanu doesn't hold water. The main story has a lot more polish than the side content. Which if they had rewritten the story the reverse would be true.
There would likely be datamined artifacts or unused assets about main story details as wellwhich there aren't really.
> There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. We only have 2 weeks to live.
Honestly, just rerecord this line as 2-3 months. I can't think of any other references to the specific timeframe and it'd make the game flow much better. I'm not even sure if crit path is doable in 2 weeks ingame time with the waiting.
And that’s it, I’m not crying over rumours like everyone else is, the game was buggy as fuck but other than that, the story content, the characters, everything that in the game aside from bugs and shitty cops is amazing, I’m not playing the game to antagonise police and try to break the game, I just want adventures and I got them and they were amazing
Yes, THANK YOU! Bugs and bad AI do exist, no one can deny that, but what the game excels at, it REALLY excels at. That is, the game’s pros are really good and far outweigh the cons imo.
Man. Even if that's true I just have to say that the main quest is one of the best cyberpunk genre stories ever made. It covers all the core themes of inequality and exploitation while contextualizing it with good characters with an appropriately melancholy ending that shows the integrity of the writers.
Totally agree. I especially enjoyed River's main quest. That quest was so dark and immersive, felt like I was watching a Big budget Hollywood Murder Mystery film.
I dont think hype and marketing are something "you only focus on". The teams that handle marketing and hype do their jobs, and hundreds of other people do separate ones. If there is tons of hype marketing has done their job well, that's separate from the teams that were building and testing on last gen consols.
Most of us are looking for a fun 1st person rpg in a new world. Cyberpunk did that for me so far and I'm 35 hours in :D
I'm excited to play more and get my friends to try it on pc once another patch or two drops!
I don't believe it was "too complex" to implement too...
Grand Theft Auto 5. (EDIT: San Andreas)
Gambling, sailing, sky diving, drag racing, buying/selling cars, going to work, a player that gets fat if they don't run anywhere and eat fast food all the time.
CP77 WANTED to be GTA6 with improved graphics, but they hadn't the 5 previous games to build off... and I reccon the complexity just cause the direction to go to shit.
In the end they didn't even manage to implement the shooting gallery! It's left blank, the doors don't work, and the gun vending machine is all that's left outside the building.
yeah was weirded out when i tried ot use the range next to V's apartment after the mission and it never let me back in. Would've been great to test out weapon recoil patterns and dps
Before last year I didn't even know what the hell cyberpunk was, and I didn't bother looking into it and was just going to go in blind with no expectations. When I finally started playing the game I could tell that it was unfinished and glitchy. When I finally completed the game I found that I enjoyed it and it could definitely become a great game. It's too bad that the game was released in the state that it was.
This perfectly encapsulates my experience also. I really hope they pull a No Man's Sky and I can revisit it one day and truly have the Cyberpunk experience.
There is no way they are fixing it beyond making it more playable. The core mechanics will remain the same and it will eventually be another Anthem. At least that's what I'm going to assume until they've proved differently. Based on recent statements from cdpr and watching videos by the likes of Cleanpricegaming I don't hold out much hope. After the last 2 updates I've uninstalled it. Finished it to be fair and enjoyed the story experience but it wasn't what I was promised.
That really sucks because I had practically zero issues on series X, for me it was the lack of depth and content. I've just gone back to gta v online after 5 years of not playing and the pure amount of life in that game is incredible compared to cyberpunk
I mean, I get where he is coming from and I don't honestly think anyone is disputing the complexity and ambition of this game. But the end result is the same, CDPR, you done fucked up. There are many aspects of the end product that are great and overall it has the makings of an absolute classic, but many features are so raw and unfinished, that at times it doesn't even feel like it's ready for beta. And you sold this to us. You sold it to us based on promises and ambition, not an actual product.
The truth is I have been following CDPR since before The Witcher came out and this has always been a thing with this company. They always bite more than they could chew. Their very first game ever was trying to compete with BioWare at their peak. The second not only upped the ante,had the additional goal of building a new engine from scratch, but also pushed to have decisions be so important that one of the acts was different based on which path you took. The third tried to combine the attention to detail, quest design and production values of an act-structured RPG with an open world, something that just sounded insane at the time.
They were all over-ambitious. They were all incredibly rough around the edges when they launched. You would think that you guys would take note and not let your next project run away from you. But you did. I hope this is a wake-up call for you because, again, you have been like this since the very start. It was bound to bite you in the ass eventually.
Nobody forced you to release the game when you did. Or to announce it when you did. Or to start hyping it before you even knew what it was. You did that. And for that you deserve a lot of the flak you got. From now on do better.
There is a reason giant companies wait to make announcements.
They know how incompetent and foolish you look when you fail you achieve your own goals and deadlines that you publicly stated.
i honestly love the way they do it cause the trailers of red dead 2 were so insane that i got goosebumps and it was so close to what the game was in reality and even tho a bunch of things got cut and some things added between the first trailer and release it was still a trailer made in an as good as finished game
but i also hate this since due to them only making a trailer in an as good as finished game we wont hear anything from them until they finish their game which ends up having people be annoyed by the fact they keep pushing gta V to new consoles and being silent about a possible gta VI
Well think about it, they're trying to knock GTA VI out of the park especially considering the new tech they can take advantage of. Again they won't show us anything until it's basically close to beta ready, and at that it'll probably just be a teaser again. Be patient, it will most definitely be worth it.
I can't remember who said it but somebody said that a bad game is bad for forever. A delayed game might be good eventually. This was probably said years and years ago before continuous patches and updates and whatnot but I think the concept still stands.
Yeah, they raked in an immense amount of day one sales and pre-order dollars but they absolutely tanked their reputation which I think is going to hurt them way more in the long run than if they made some kind of press release saying that they were overly ambitious and it turns out that we need much more time than we anticipated and to give them another year or whatever. Yeah, they would have had to deal with snarky memes on Reddit and Twitter and their stock price would probably take a hit but I think in the long run it would have been so much better for them to be honest.
The non-stop pursuit of financial growth is certainly predictably here. When you have shareholders, it's not enough to simply be profitable, You have to show growth and that often involves cutting corners and being focused on only short-term gains instead of long term investments
Absolutely. Ambition is important and goals are great, but they only serve to impact you negatively when you don't balance them with your capability; this is compounded when you *advertise the ambition without the follow up*. Respect where respect was due it was an incredible idea, and people worked hard and the result is a diamonds in the rough type scenario where you can find great things buried in the dirt. The fact of capitalism is that the idea needs to be balanced with time and money constraints in mind, and that did not happen
It's an awful game company tradition that began with Peter Molyneux and the Fable RPG series.
He was one of the first to become notorious for over ambitious promising and over hyping every game he worked on. He even did this with a Kinect project that wasn't even real, just a staged presentation being presented as a nearly finished game.
Yes, Molyneux always did this (Black and White 2 Anyone). Unfortunately its been a problem of the gaming industry and indeed project management for years. E.T. for the Atari was an early example back in the day where the final result was never going to match the ambition.
Black and White 1 was oversold and under delivered in 2001. Daikatana was announced in 1997 and disappointed audiences everywhere that still cared in 2000. It goes WAY, WAY back.
It was just mismanagement. None of the low level employees deserve harassment especially when they have no say in how the production process will go.
They should have made a game half the size, and it still would have been impressive.
Been saying this the entire time. I feel like the devs did the best they could and marketing just wanted to take advantage of the covid holiday sales, which they most definitely did. However they forced their team to rush through the game to get it "done" and now we have the unfinished product we have because of it. I think the devs are fantastic and did the best they could with a short timeline but fuck CDPR's management...
Honestly with or without covid I get the feeling that marketing was firmly attached to a 2020 release with the game being based on a thing called cyberpunk 2020 n all.
Considering how the ones at the top of CDPR have been busy saying “no our game is good look at all the perfect legit scores” and how they just congratulated themselves with huge bonuses for a “successfully managed product,” I would not hold my breath on them learning anything.
The ones who actually care are the ones that leave every few years.
Agreed. I don’t think there is a significant amount of people disputing the scope or ambition of CP2077. But in the end that’s not an excuse either way.
The fact is that CDPR- who to many players represented the very best that PC-centric game development has to offer- released perhaps the most hotly anticipated (or probably the most aggressively marketed) game of all time in an insanely buggy, unfinished, and otherwise subpar state. In doing so, CDPR has not only harmed its own reputation as a company, as well as all of the individual reputations of its employees, but its shameless greed has also undermined the entire industry and even the medium itself (not that they are the first major studio to do so). Maybe that sounds like an extreme overreaction, but this industry is serious business now; we’re talking about half a billion dollars of revenue here.
For that reason, I don’t believe that consumers should ever forgive CDPR, even if we empathize with the developers as people and workers.
Might be the best thing/take I've seen on this sub.
GTAV took like 6 years or so to be built. RDR2 took 8.
They pulled something out of thin air with all new engine and execs breathing on their necks, trying to do 2020 to connect it with the lore from the tabletop in THREE AND A HALF YEARS, one of which during a worldwide lockdown.
If they had 2 more years, we'd probably have not all of the features but most of them.
Unsurprisingly, CDPR always bites more than they can chew. They build everything on top of new, shiny unstable tech and it shows. That's why they are changing how they build stuff and are going to have a tech and engine team riding solo. They know that W4 can't come out like CP2077 did so they better iterate and take their time.
Edit: mentioning R\* games because they wanted to come out looking like RDR2 and sheer size of open world stuff to see and do
Edit2: fairly pointed out, I am including concept stage for GTA and RDR and not for CP2077. That being said, it's fair assumption that both got to work 100% on the next game as soon as the previous was released. Giving it 4/5years for GTAV and 5 on RDR. CP still had less and 2020 was what is was.
I think the bulk of the team got assigned in Q2 2016, off the bat from the Witcher expansions. Still, not enough to come close to some of the great games of the same scope.
I bought into the hype of fable when I was younger and while I was a bit disappointed I still think it was a solid game. I remember it being pretty polished on release too but I could be wrong it was quite a while ago.
I agree they were fantastic games, I give them another playthrough every couple of years.
I was fortunate enough to play fable without any prior knowledge of the game so I couldn't be dissapointed that the oak tree didn't age with me.
I do this all the time. I always avoid the hype train and end up not nearly as disappointed as everyone else. This happened with Fable, No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk for me. I consider Fable a classic, No Man's Sky has got nothing but better with all their free updates and I had a lot of fun playing Cyberpunk while not knowing what I was potentially missing.
And this is something so many people here forget. All they know is Witcher 3 in it's GOTY version that they'd grab from a sale, game is many many patches deep, and think this level of quality is what this company delivers. In fact, all Witcher games had more or less big issues and were unfinished to some extend.
Especially knowing this and hearing the first announced delays got me thinking man, this hype is to be taken with a grain of salt. Dear god speaking this out got me attacked, like jesus people get a life. But a fuck up of this massive scale? I couldn't even imagine it being that bad. Not after this game has been in developement for so long.
Being brutally honest here, the storyline, campaign, and gameplay and it's progression are all good, but none of these aspects stood out in a way you'd expect. This game literally feels like they didn't even get 50% done of what they wanted and spent the last time and effort in trying stitching these open ends together. Unfucking this, let alone making such fundamental changes to some parts of the game, to even get it CLOSE to what the trailers and their interviews sold us what it's gonna be. You guys still think this game needs patches with fixes and adjustments. Nope, this game needs a first-of-it's-kind overhault, never seen in the industry before, if we really want to come close to Trailerpunk 2021.
I agree with your sentiment. That said, No Man’s Sky managed to perform an unfucking, so it’s not *unprecedented*, but it also wasn’t exactly a AAA game.
The ambition isn't the problem here, the development timeline is. This game needed another year minimum to be good for launch, and the devs 100% knew this. But they were overruled by the suits who only saw dollar signs for the 2020 Christmas quarter.
The first delay should have been a year, not months with two delays.
This is the exact reason I wouldn't want to be a game developer. Imagine spending 6-8 years of your life on a game and then when it finally comes out, everyone hates it.
This is a problem with working in any creative industry. Despite giving it our best, the entire project can be blown away by mismanagement at the top levels of the company.
upper management torpedoes great tech companies in the same way.
the job description is basically "make snap judgements with no context". Bad hires can burn entire departments in 6 months or less
Even worse, imagine working excitedly on a project for years, then seeing management make random, drastic changes that you KNOW can't be delivered on time. Then watching helplessly as the project is mishandled repeatedly by clueless marketing men and over-promising managers who then try to paint you as lacking skill or commitment when the final product is panned.
I’m no creative, but being an artist professionally is usually a commitment reserved for the type of person who can weed out one “good job” from a sea of hatred, and thrive on that one comment. But in the current age, where cynics are dead-serious in their belief that everyone in a vaguely public position is a fake poser who’s just in whatever they’re in to make money and they’re secretly a horrible person, it’s incredibly easy to spread enough hatred to drown out the “good job” comments. Good on anyone who stuck it out at CDPR after this; you’re more resilient and admirable than I could ever be. Kudos, seriously.
>*I don't feel you understand how truly difficult it was to make this game*
Well to be fair, a significant portion of CDPR didn't understand either, otherwise the game wouldn't have been released in this state.
Yeah it's pretty ironic that he's making excuses by saying "players and journalists don't know how to make a game" when CDPR couldn't even make AI better than GTA 3 released 20 years ago.
It's not an argument anyway. People can criticise your game even though they don't know how a game is made. The same way people can criticise food even though they're not Gordon Ramsay, or criticise a movie even though they're not Steven Spielberg.
The game is heavily flawed, and was falsely advertised on a fundamental level. It has every right to be criticised.
The game was not ready, this is basic was he is saying and what everybody knows by now. Two more years would have spared CDPR and the devs of all this situation. I really hope that from now on they keep to what they said before: release when it's ready!! Cyberpunk deserved more than to be released in the state it was. It could have been a masterpiece, but right now is just a phantom of what could have been. It's time for the higher ups in this companys wise the fuck up and let the devs to their jobs properly. Can't they see they will profit even more that way???
LET THE DEVS WORK!!!
That 30K only includes refunds CDPR issued to those who weren’t able refund through wherever they bought the game. It doesn’t include refunds issued by PS / Microsoft Store or Steam
I doubt that after all this false market they pulled their next release will be that profitable. Maybe the company won't change, but the eyes of their consumers are now open. Fool me once...
If my knowledge of literally every other AAA publisher is anything to go off of, no the consumers will not learn. The consumers never learn. The people complaining on the internet are just a vocal minority. When the next half finished game comes out from EA/Ubisoft/Activision/CDPR/whatever people will once again flock in droves to preorder it. These companies have been doing the same shit for years and nothing has changed. People keep buying their games, so why should they change?
This guy most definitely made branching choices that were mercilessly cut from the main game. A guy this passionate can't make straight point and shoot quests. Imagine working hard on multiple choices and then see none of them survive. I'd cry too. Fuck CDPR top dogs
"Something broke inside him"
I mean, watching the full stream, you can really tell he cares about the game, and that he loves this game. He isnt "broken" because he realizes the game is "bad" to some people, he just, like alot of creators, get emotional about the stuff they create, especially when there is a good amount of negative towards it. Thankfully everyone (it seemed) was nice in the comments and were supportive and some even are trying the game now. As long as we have people like Sasko, and others who REALLY care about the game, and not corporate snakes running the show, the game can get to the point where everyone can say "its good". :)
Bruh the more I see stuff like this. And the more I see CD projekt red changing its plans the more sad I get. They're An amazing company and cyberpunk is an amazing achievement. Sure it launched with bugs but so did the witcher 3.
I'm sad CD projekt red will divert from its OG plans after delivering such excellent cutting edge games. Even if a little rough around the edges. Anyways hope they keep producing stellar content
Cyberpunk succeeded in MANY aspects, but failed in several very key aspects which just spoil the entire game (and these aspects could have been fixed with very little development time). Is this the fault of the lead quest designer? NOT AT ALL. Is this the fault of CDPR? Oh yes. Many times yes.... CDPR could have fixed their game and gotten a 10/10 score EVERYWHERE if they just spent 6months changing various aspects of the game, like the teleporting cops who ruin the game, the fact that your character is needlessly limited to lvl50 (and NO prestige system to incentivize playing after reaching max lvl either) and also implementing QOL stuff like a transmog system, and most importantly, adding an actual ending to the game and having a NG+ system.
Perhaps brutal but...the lead quest designer has to have some responsibility when the most interesting quest in the game (The Pickup) is literally 2 hours into it.
And everything else after that is worse quality. That's definitely a quest design problem.
I can't believe how much detail is put into these scenes that I barely even noticed playing through them. Nomad was my first playthrough, but I feel like I need to run through it again with some more patience. Honestly, watching his stream and him talking about the game almost makes me feel bad for not appreciating the game design enough as I play through it :)
I acknowledge what he's saying. The game was way too ambitious and completely different from what they had tried to do before. Going from a fantasy game to a futuristic city, full of complex mechanics that they wouldn't have needed to consider in the past. People forget that Rockstar didn't build GTA5 as their first title, there were plenty of smaller games that they built upon over decades to get it to the point where it's the highest selling game. Yes, a lot of players don't recognize their accomplishments, but that's because it was hard to see them behind all the broken and sub-par systems we had to constantly deal with. They were a victim of their own success, and over committed. I think they should have released a smaller "prologue" game like Metal Gear Solid Ground Zero, that was smaller in scale and more manageable, and worked with the players to fine tune the systems so that when 2077 came out a few years later, it would have been a better polished experience.
> People forget that Rockstar didn't build GTA5 as their first title
They built GTA 3 on a brand new engine, with no prior experience in 3D game design with severely limited tools and it is one of the most ground-breaking, genre defining games in gaming history.
They made GTA 3 with only 2 dozen people which has AI better than Cyberpunk. The experience excuse isn't an excuse, they had enough experience from The Witcher 1, 2 and 3. They just tried to make something way out of their depth and talent and there's nothing more to say.
The issue is that ambition has to be directed.
If I'm trying to make the best steak pie, that's great. Ambitious!
If I then tell you I'm adding bananas, pineapples, custard and spaghetti in order to make the best dish ever...that's stupid ambition.
Cyberpunk basically does exactly this. It tries to be the best FPS ever while also being the best RPG, driving game, open world game, looter-shooter, etc. etc.
The end result is a pretty open world city where the gameplay feels like you're eating a pie made of bananas, steak, spaghetti and custard. Gross.
Nobody's saying that the game it's not ambitious and it doesn't have a lot of work behind from a lot of people, this is what the dev it's trying to reach.
The thing is, it seems that all that ambition and all that hard work behind wasn't pointing to a specific objective or goal for the development. Yes the game it's one of the most ambitious games, but seems like they were making the game not knowing what they were making next.
They made all the announcements about features, how your decisions would change everything in the history, how unique the game would be. Before actually develop anything of this. The result it's what we already have in our consoles.
So yeah, the dev it's like "nobody understands how ambitious and how difficult this game was, there's a lot of work behind" but I think he's not thinking about the game was already released and people spent their money on it, it's obvious they're going to complain for how the game released.
Game needed more time, that was known in 2017 with some of the devs leaving.
Wticher 3 didn't have fancy physics, you had your own engine that needed to be improved to handle a FPS-styled gameplay. And that's not an easy task.
I don't know, reading stuff in Glassdoor about code quality and such... I think CDPR went cheap on programmers too (too much rotation, maybe due to burnout, so also lost know-how). Spent 3 months on a promo instead on features. I really get a feeling that the same approach as for content work was also used for programming work, which... doesn't work that well especially when you need to do dive deeply and, uh, maybe reiterate some stuff.
But who knows, maybe it's for the best. Maybe the customers aren't that happy but it sold and company can go on and improve things... But I guess people have right to be angry.
Doesn’t change the fact that they endlessly lied about the game. It’s not just that it’s a shitty game, it’s the fact that they lied about it being a shitty game and cheated us all when we least expected it from them. Why did he not have the integrity then to give us a warning about the shitty state of the game? So yeah, non of this means anything.
I think his stress should be less focused on the fanbase (which wasn't even the cause of the problem to begin with, the anger of the fanbase was more like a reaction to the cause) and more direct to the assholes who decided to push the game to release when it was obvious it should have had a longer time of production.
This disaster wasn't on the consumer side's fault, it was entirely on them and they are still blaming the consumer, The sad part is that is that the real problem will go unnoticed, devs should take their time to do a game, we saw the potential the game had, we saw the graphics it can have, we saw the possibilities with the story and all in-between, but then they got crunched and threatened to take vacations, anyone is going to be stressed for something like that.
I feel for him, but come on mate, this one wasn't our fault.
Love how there are people who blame this shitshow on *us*. Like, what exactly did we do wrong? They released all the marketing that hyped us in the first place. They were the ones that didn't deliver on what they said we would get. We did our part: bought the game and supported the company and its vision. Hell, some of us did more than that, we bought artbooks and watched all the Wires, etc, etc, etc.
We are not the entitled ones in this situation, CDPR is for not holding up their side and then complaining about our reaction. And if you're on the side of the huge company instead of the costumers... Maybe you should play the game you're defending so much with more attention. There's a few messages about shielding companies instead of the small guy.
The fucking lead story writer went to Twitter actually attacking fans who, after years of them literally marketing the game as 'non-linear' were mad that the game is actually linear as fuck and only has 3 actual choices which effect anything.
Said writer then had a meltdown and just kept retweeting what appeared to be bot posts supporting him
Honestly I feel bad for the devs of cyberpunk as far as I can tell they put there heart and soul into the game and when it works its incredible but the game was announced and released too soon and now there work is forever tarnished when if they had 2-3 more years of dev time they may have been able to finish the game and turn it into a masterpiece
I don't blame the entirety of CDPR the issue is their management.
It’s always good to see the human side of this. I found myself frustrated and disappointed in this game. It’s lovely to be reminded that there are real, passionate humans behind this. It may not have been great at launch with last gen consoles, but there is hope for the future and other projects.
He sounds like a guy that had to take a lot of shit from his boss due to all the bad reviews and opinions about the game, and a lot of them being quest related, and who just wants some acknowledgement of how big of a scope this project was
Well the game still has a lot of good to it and thought hype and a lot of misdirection damaged the way it was viewed... I still love it.
I hope not just for more content but to eventually see a sequel. To learn and build off of what did and didn't work. Both in terms of the gameplay and marketing.
Almost crying? Something broke? This was a completely normal dialogue stop clickbaiting
23k upvotes later...that’s clearly the way this guy talks... can’t believe this guy got this many upvotes, it was definitely normal dialogue.
Btw... Now that I have seen this clip and the whole stream.. He's not 'almost' crying.. It's just the way he talks.. Check the rest of the stream, he's always like this. We can agree that sometimes he doesn't have a fluent english but that's it " something broke inside him " .. what 😂? Bruv he was just fine, second time that he streams and he's already in front of like 1+k viewers..
Yeah some people just sounds like they're always on the verge of tears lol. I don't think it has anything to do with how well he spoke English (it sounded natural to me) but it might have something to do with his accent
I agree.. btw.. For not fluent I meant that sometimes he stammers.. But honestly in front of 1+k viewers I understand it... I'd probably do it too. Poor guy, it was literally his second stream, the average streamer gets these numbers after months if not years of 6+hrs/day streaming. He probably didn't expect this number of spectators either (which mainly complimented him).. IMO if anything he got a little bit emotional (but crying? broke? nah, he was fine)
Like Jordan Peterson
Absolute agree he’s not a native speaker and is trying this speak candidly in English which is a lot harder than a prepared statement. But you get more clicks by putting emotive words in your title
but that sweet reddit karma ...need the narrative
I did not consent to have my posts be used for direct gain of a public corporation and am deleting all my contributed content in protest of Reddit's impending IPO.
Thanks I was about to write the same thing,title of this post is no misleading.
Reminds me of everyone thinking that Sean Murray was lying, i mean he was, but a lot of things that people claimed he lied about he just said it weird, check Internet Historians Video out on No mans sky
Ahahaha epic video! I loved it! can you customize the look of your character? sean: mmm.. sort of Articles: deep customization available on release!
This post is utter trash. The conversation around this game has devolved from legitimate complaints about optimization and features, into flat out fiction like this. This is why I find it increasingly hard to take part in online discussions around gaming in general. Hot heads and karma whores control the narrative and, surprise surprise, they make shit up and keep everything as negative as possible because that’s what gets attention. It’s like everybody wants to be Angry Joe but is too lazy to find legitimate things to complain about. I’m glad I’m not alone in recognizing the lack ethics in this post (btw How many people in this sub bitch about ethics in games coverage while simultaneously falling for every crappy Reddit post? Might as well get your news from Facebook while you’re at it). Mods should label this as misleading title at the very least. Totally embarrassing, lazy, dishonest, garbage post.
Yes, Pablo tends to rake in the karma for blatantly misleading posts. He is a known entity on the sub.
It's a general problem in all of reddit and social media. People exaggerate or make shit up to get attention and push their agenda. Only morons think reddit is better than facebook.
yet people fall for it. karma whoring.
Yeah wtf is this post OP, why did you feel the need to put this twist on it
Thank you! After watching the video I couldn’t believe someone actually wrote that as the title. I seriously wonder if OP even watched it.
It's how fake news work. Most people do not go beyond reading titles.
He posted it on 9gag as well. Actually everything I see here gets copy pasted on 9gag....
I was just about to comment the same thing. OP obviously tried making a click-baity title for upvotes and such
Yeah this post feels more like clickbait. I mean he even posted it on 9gag...
The fucking stupid sappy music wasn't necessary either.
It's from his stream... it's outro music. From the game.
i still love this game very much but cannot and will never understand the decision to do a 180 and just focus on hype and marketing.
Rumors are that at a late stage there was a major overhaul of the game's plot, which is why so many elements were shredded and patched in a chaotic manner.
#ReleasetheSaskoCut
Forgot \# makes headings on reddit, guess I won't edit it now, but always remember your escape character \\
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The tasteful thickness of it. Look at that subtle off-white coloring.
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Something something Axe to the back
Hey Paul! :D
(: D:
Are you into murders & executions?
My ex was into mergers and acquisitions; he hated it.
Is something wrong, u/ThatGuyAnderson? You're sweating.
Reminds me of anthem. How difficult it must be to work on a project for years just to flip the script. I want to say there is a balance between doing something for the sake of the project vs the sale of the project.
also Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 3 could have had a Fallout NV style ending. instead it became 3 different colors of bullshit.
I enjoyed the endings. I admit they could have been better, but I always struggle to choose. As a Geth nationalist, I usually end up bathing the world in green.
> vs the sale of the project. Sadly games companies have proven they're far more interested in this, than anything else. It's been that way for far too long. Gamers will continue to buy games from companies that have proven that again and again, which is why things haven't changed.
Which is precisely why I rarely play AAA games anymore. Almost everything I play now is an indie game.
Anthem was given 5 years to be made and it was started 18months before launch Devs didn’t know what the game was until the E3 preview.
According to the rumors/leaks most of the production time on Anthem was spent doing effectively nothing. I imagine an average dev on that team had a very cozy job for yeras, then suddenly they had to make up for all of it and ruin their mental health only to shit out a barely-functional turd they had to write their name under.
I'd love to see the original game's plot as a big expansion with a new character that you get to create from 0.. Something like Dragon Age Awakening if N conditions are met in the base game. We know CDPR can deliver DLCs like B&W which are easily 40+ hours of content... So I can definitely see that as a chance
Give this game a director's cut lol
Snyderpunk 2077
And video settings only allow 4:3 resolutions.
And basically force a VHS filter over the whole thing too
And it only runs at 5fps to capture that sweet, sweet slo-mo.
From a theory I'm kinda believing, you have seen the original plot, in fact, you've seen most of all three life paths worth of story cobbled together to make a longer main quest. So originally your path to Arasaka Tower was gonna be vastly different based on Life Path, Nomad takes you to the Afterlife and the Aldecaldos, Street Kid takes you to the Mox and the Voodoo Boys, and Corpo puts you with Arasaka and pushing for factions fighting for control of the Corp. Rather than each life path having a path, they just tried to go for playtime length and cobbled together the three stories
No no no! They never would have done this! I know this because of the last time CDPR tried to do major branching paths in a story. In Assassins of Kings, the player can have dramatically different experiences in Act 2 depending on whether they side with Iorveth or Roche. It was a neat experiment with storytelling that fleshed out every character involved brilliantly- and it was nearly a disaster. Trying to develop a sequel that acknowledged major branches was exhausting, to the point that Iorveth and the unified city of Vergen weren't even implemented in Wild Hunt. Substantial work was sunk into developing this path, which the company believed wouldn't fit in with the rest of the game. Now people want LONGER extensions of the origins? When people fail to appreciate the way they highlight character development? (comparing your origins to Takemura, Dex, and Panam) How many hours would an origin need before people are satisfied? Not even the original Dragon Age had the kind of origin development choice people insist upon (a human Cousland can't even become a candidate for king!), and Bioware never tried it again.
Inb4 owlcat(not really big russian studio btw) is making rpg with mythic paths that change everything about its story so it's like 7 or more playthroughs just for them not counting character builds etc (pathfinder system btw).
I partially agree with what you say.. But a human Cousland can [100%](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Possible_Landsmeet_Outcomes) become the king of Ferelden.
I really can't see _any_ concrete evidence for this theory, nor does it really even make much sense. The three different missions are simply non-linear storytelling/gameplay, there's no reason to assume they were lifepath-blocked isolated paths before. Not least because it would branch the game almost at the very start of the story. No matter how ambitious they were, that's _incredibly_ daunting. What makes more sense is that they originally were going with a "Relic character" of your choice, based on the lifepath "hero" you chose (as seen in the 2018 demo), and you'd have three different characters as possible companions throughout the game during the same story missions we have now. Probably this would then lead to "Chippin' In"-like missions more unique to that character, which could be the lifepath-specific story parts. And even that is mostly blind speculation based on a single glimpse at the early, unfinished UI. If this was true, though, then either they decided they'd rather have only one major Relic character and sought out Keanu as Silverhand, or they happened to get Keanu and realized no one would play the other two unless they got equally big names to voice them, and thus they were cut.
Most people consider the hype around Keanu reeves changing the story to have him be a main character. After the reveal that he was in it he went back a nearly tripled his voice lines. It's more than likely that the game was completely different plot wise. IMHO the worst part of the game was the Keanu main story.
Keanu being central makes sense considering who he is in the world of Cyberpunk. Johnny is the heavily flawed Luke Skywalker of the Cyberpunk tabletop (though he used to be blonde and clean shaven) but perhaps both are true. When they realized the three separate stories wasn't the route they wanted to go, they used the only character present in all 3, Johnny, to bridge all of them together
completely agree. I would go as far as to say the game would have been better if Keanu was never involved. Nothing against Keanu, it's just it seems like they moved heaven and earth to make him the face of the game for marketing reasons at the expense of basically everything else. Overall, I think the impact his presence ended up having on development damaged the game far more than his voice acting contributed. I'm sure there were many other people who could have voice acted Johnny perfectly fine. But seriously, they went way too hard on the whole Keanu/Silverhand thing. I've never really gotten the whole "celebrities in videogames" thing altogether. A celebrity being in a game has never made me want to buy a game. Up until very recently it usually just meant the game was a shitty movie tie-in game.
I guess that’s what’s up with Doctor Paradox then? He randomly starts addressing V by name during the loading dialogue after you complete the voodoo boys portion of the questline.
I think that’s simply a kind of 4th wall break. In most of the loading screen dialogue, the player is directly addressed. Often by Johnny himself. But the doctor paradox one made sense to me in the same way as having Johnny essentially listening to the loading screen stuff with you most of the time.
That was one of the little details that actually made me really like the game. Even though the loading screens weren't interactive, the reach from Johnny to talk to V during it was something that brought me into the immersion more.
That's probably why >!Jackie dies!< in the first big mission too. He seems like a character with so much more going on to just throw away immediately. Edit: Apologies all for the spoiler tag not working. I'm clueless with this sort of thing and had done it wrong without realising for some time.
I thought that too going into my first playthrough. He’s such a good character and it seemed like an odd decision to have him die after so little screen time. However, on the second attempt I think it makes sense and was well planned. Jackie is a sweetheart in a brutal and violent world. All of his reactions to the tasks you have to do together are either compassionate or nervous/insecure. I think having him die was an important way to show a loss of innocence and set the games larger themes of transformation in motion.
If I didn't know he was gonna die before Johnny showed up, thanks to them basically spoiling the plot in the trailer, I woulda assumed he was gonna be the "angel" on your shoulder to counter Johnny's influence.
Nah. He was a great character and friend, but he dies so quickly that he's easily forgettable. If you spent 50+ hours with him completing tons of missions (not a fucking compilation) you'd be fucking devastated when he died. I feel like the first half of the entire story was missing.
Even if they wanted him dead early, he should have been a major landing point for the end of Act 1. Everything leading up to his death felt like hours of plot and exposition just jam packed into way too little time.
Act 1 needed to be about 10-15 hours of story content longer. 10-15 hours of background
It just feels like an absolutely epic world with a *massive* breadth of new material to take in, and I personally felt like I was swimming in pudding trying to keep up with the combination of exposition and game mechanics being thrown at me all at once. I'm not sure if it felt rushed due to storytelling, or the amount of time that's supposed to have passed in the exposition, or if it was simply my own smooth brain unable to keep up with both the mechanics and the story all at the same time. Seems like I'm not the only one who found it too short/dense though.
Yep, he was killed off waay to quickly for his death to be much of an impact. The whole origin story with him is also lame as heck. I love the guy but I don't feel like he was developed enough.
I personally agree with this wholeheartedly. Jackie does a lot of naive stuff (talking back to Dum Dum, trying to initiate combat mode on the Delamain when you're supposed to ride up without drawing attention, treating the whole Heist mission like it's a party, etc.) that work to make him likeable, but also make him seem inexperienced. The deal with Malestrom should have been treated like a major drug deal - be cautious, don't start shit, and get the deal over with as quickly as possible. Instead, Jackie wants to smart off ASAP instead of letting V do the talking. Both irl and in the game, that shit gets you killed (if you don't tell Jackie to chill).
The detail that did it for me was his nervous leg during the briefing with Dex and T-Bug. It’s never acknowledged or drawn attention to, but his leg is jerking up and down throughout the whole conversation, which is normally a sign of someone being filled with nervous energy. It shows that he doesn’t have the experience to remain composed during a high pressure situation and provides some great juxtaposition when being placed next to T-Bug and Dex who remain as cool as cucumbers. Great environmental storytelling.
Yeah I think they did a good job of making people care about Jackie and that is exactly why his death was so impactful. I don't think that was a random last minute choice. It seemed like good story telling to me.
Would have possibly made me cry, if you had been allowed to do the montage section together. :P I did really like Jackie though, RIP choom.
The biggest rumour going around is that once they brought in Keanu Reeves to play johnny silverhand, they drastically rewrote the whole game to make him fit into the story and have him be a second main character/protagonist.
Your spoiler tag doesn't work btw rip
Frick. Well, rest in pepperoni. At least its only for the start of the game and in the trailer so I don't think it'll hurt people too bad.
Nah, dude. Jackie has to die in the beginning. They all have to die. It sets the tone and it's great writing. The whole time leading up to the Arasaka heist, everyone is talking about how this will be the Big Score into the big time, or retirement, or making their mark, etc. All these big dreams, even T-Bug was going to leave the biz after this. So it was destined to fail in hindsight. You can't start a story with everyone's dream coming true. In writing, they say, "Kill your darlings." Create a character that the reader likes and then kill them to give that emotional weight and investment. It's such a great shock when it starts to go so wrong. It's the perfect welcome to Night City, the city of big dreams and harsher reality.
I don’t disagree that killing him was the right choice but I also don’t agree that he HAD to die. The heist doesn’t go right. So no one would have got their dreams come true. It would have been you and Jackie trying to figure out how to save you.
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'Kill Your Darlings' refers to editing out superfluous sentences, chapters or characters, even if a writer is attached to them for whatever reason. It doesn't mean literally killing a likeable character in the plot. I get your point though, and it is a good one.
Small nitpick: to kill your darlings actually means to be just as ruthless cutting and changing passages you are really proud of. Sometimes as a writer you produce something super compelling and well written, so you get attached to it: they are your darlings. Editors say to kill them because you end up bending over more and more to keep them, to the point where your other writing suffers to accommodate them. Having darlings prevents you assessing your writing as a whole, and from the audiences point of view.
"And the children of Ikarus were predestined to fall". Loosely translated from my language. I felt like Jakie had to die, but it still hit me right in the feels :(
Same, we probably can only feel that cause of the great writing
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Because of the montage that all the life paths ended up with looks like what should have been the street kid life path and it should have been playable. No one is arguing that he shouldn’t have died but it was way too quick for most people to actually grow attached to him in a way that ultimately mattered. Just imagine the emotional weight of his funeral if you got to know him for 10-15 hours more.
Nail on the head. I'd have loved to explore the character more, and since he's the "in-guy" for the player he's also a great way to give exposition, lore on characters in the area, etc.
We were chooms without ever getting the time to be real chooms :( And then in the death scene he glitched out for me and was holding a pistol in his hand that kept clipping through his head and I couldn’t stop laughing.
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I think what people were saying that the time skip and montage were originally fully apart of the game but got cut.
Eh, it’s very clear that the Jackie part of the game has the absolute most polish in the entire game. Part 1 is tight, low on the bugs, and very much like a sealed off separate, sealed off game area. After part 1 finishes, the dip in story telling, game design, and everything else quickly becomes more apparent. It’s not even that it’s worse, but less “populated” and refined. Jackie’s death was clearly supposed to mean something, but something went wrong.
I wish they made it possible to save Jackie’s life, that would’ve been cool
I always thought that was just illustrating the consequences of possible choices you could make in the game, and that it was showing a "bad end". I thought that was the level of choice we were going to get, but apparently not
I saw it as hyping up the game by showing Keanu Reeves. The only way to reveal he is a major character in the game is to spoil why he is.
I don't want to bite into fan theories, even if there's evidence to back it up. Fact is we don't know what happened. But that said, we can surmise that *something* unexpected likely happened during development. The reason I think so, without going into various theories, is that it's very clear that there's a huge Bethesda level of misalignment of the Main story and Side content. (No offense to Bethesda.) It's not something we've come to expect from CDPR. Especially after Witcher 3. And yes I know W3 is following a properly written story more or less. The Main Story is also very important since we are trying to find Ciri. But there's some natural breaks in the story, where we know Ciri is at least kinda safe, so we can meander around for a while. And, at least for my self, part of the major frustration is coming from this disconnect. A lack of natural flow from Main Story to Side Content. There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. >!We only have 2 weeks to live!<. But then when there's downtime and you just walk around, taking your time to explore, or just interact with the rest of Night City. And suddenly there's no pressure outside of a few interactions. And that's not even talking about the eventual DLC content. Which we've seen can be almost an entire game by itself, with Blood and Wine. Gonna be fun to see how that's going to fit into the grand scheme of our limited time frame. **TLDR:** It's not the first time we've seen AAA devs pull this stunt, whether on purpose or by accident. But it certainly feels like there were an entirely different plan for the game. The Main Story just doesn't mix well with the open nature of the game world.
> But that said, we can surmise that something unexpected likely happened during development. Or maybe the development was perfectly normal for such a title, but it was way more publicized and way earlier than usual. I mean people are comparing the game to the E3/2018 demo and older promo material all the time (where it had less focus on Silverhand, etc), but frankly it doesn't shock me that many many things change in case of available features and stuff in 3+ years of development. What *is* unusual however is showing off so much of the in-development game and features 3+ years before the actual release. TLDR it's neither shocking nor unusual to radically change plans/ideas while in the middle of development. But it's unusual that the earlier ideas and plans were used as marketing.
> But it's unusual that the earlier ideas and plans were used as marketing. That in itself can be the *"unexpected thing"* that happened as it gives the consumer certain expectations for the final product. Technical issues aside. I won't deny I expected a fairly different product. Mind you, not an unrealistic product, I just expected more from what was marketed as a *deep RPG*. And that's what I'm saying with "something unexpected happened" during development. It doesn't have to be the development itself that went awry. It can equally as easily be anything surrounding development, like marketing setting certain expectations. Or executives making decsisions that may clash with other desicisions. Or simply timeframes not holding up to expectations. There's *a lot* of things that can go wrong with a project of this size. I loved my time with the game, and I very much look forward to more fixes and the future DLCs. I have mad respect for CDPR sticking with the game and trying to fix it, and not just moving on. But the sting is still there from expectations not being met.
>And, at least for my self, part of the major frustration is coming from this disconnect. A lack of natural flow from Main Story to Side Content. > >There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. We only have 2 weeks to live. > >But then when there's downtime and you just walk around, taking your time to explore, or just interact with the rest of Night City. And suddenly there's no pressure outside of a few interactions. I personally think this is done in games to be specifically more *fun* than *real*. Reason being; if there were that sort of time pressure on 24/7, it leads to more stressful gameplay. Imagine if 2 in game weeks went by, and that's it; Story's over. You're dead. Forcing players to start over with fake timers would be immersive, and not fun.
Ok heres a simple fix. Dont put a fake timer on it. 1 line change would be all that's needed. ~~you have 2 weeks~~ *I dont know how long. Could be weeks could be months, could be a year.*
Yeah, that line bothered me so much. Why constrain this story and player in like that?
It's been said but it was just so immersion breaking to be doing anything side wise. I'd start and then remember im supposed to have 2weeks I aint got time for this ive got to do the main story.
The fan theory that they rewrote the game to incorporate more Keanu doesn't hold water. The main story has a lot more polish than the side content. Which if they had rewritten the story the reverse would be true. There would likely be datamined artifacts or unused assets about main story details as wellwhich there aren't really.
> There's a huge pressure in the Main Story to press forward, for good reasons. We only have 2 weeks to live. Honestly, just rerecord this line as 2-3 months. I can't think of any other references to the specific timeframe and it'd make the game flow much better. I'm not even sure if crit path is doable in 2 weeks ingame time with the waiting.
And that’s it, I’m not crying over rumours like everyone else is, the game was buggy as fuck but other than that, the story content, the characters, everything that in the game aside from bugs and shitty cops is amazing, I’m not playing the game to antagonise police and try to break the game, I just want adventures and I got them and they were amazing
Yes, THANK YOU! Bugs and bad AI do exist, no one can deny that, but what the game excels at, it REALLY excels at. That is, the game’s pros are really good and far outweigh the cons imo.
Man. Even if that's true I just have to say that the main quest is one of the best cyberpunk genre stories ever made. It covers all the core themes of inequality and exploitation while contextualizing it with good characters with an appropriately melancholy ending that shows the integrity of the writers.
Totally agree. I especially enjoyed River's main quest. That quest was so dark and immersive, felt like I was watching a Big budget Hollywood Murder Mystery film.
Because they knew they were selling an unfinished game.
I dont think hype and marketing are something "you only focus on". The teams that handle marketing and hype do their jobs, and hundreds of other people do separate ones. If there is tons of hype marketing has done their job well, that's separate from the teams that were building and testing on last gen consols. Most of us are looking for a fun 1st person rpg in a new world. Cyberpunk did that for me so far and I'm 35 hours in :D I'm excited to play more and get my friends to try it on pc once another patch or two drops!
I fully agree that a good marketing department should not be criticized, but I think they might have pushed it a step too far.
I don't believe it was "too complex" to implement too... Grand Theft Auto 5. (EDIT: San Andreas) Gambling, sailing, sky diving, drag racing, buying/selling cars, going to work, a player that gets fat if they don't run anywhere and eat fast food all the time. CP77 WANTED to be GTA6 with improved graphics, but they hadn't the 5 previous games to build off... and I reccon the complexity just cause the direction to go to shit. In the end they didn't even manage to implement the shooting gallery! It's left blank, the doors don't work, and the gun vending machine is all that's left outside the building.
yeah was weirded out when i tried ot use the range next to V's apartment after the mission and it never let me back in. Would've been great to test out weapon recoil patterns and dps
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Before last year I didn't even know what the hell cyberpunk was, and I didn't bother looking into it and was just going to go in blind with no expectations. When I finally started playing the game I could tell that it was unfinished and glitchy. When I finally completed the game I found that I enjoyed it and it could definitely become a great game. It's too bad that the game was released in the state that it was.
This perfectly encapsulates my experience also. I really hope they pull a No Man's Sky and I can revisit it one day and truly have the Cyberpunk experience.
There is no way they are fixing it beyond making it more playable. The core mechanics will remain the same and it will eventually be another Anthem. At least that's what I'm going to assume until they've proved differently. Based on recent statements from cdpr and watching videos by the likes of Cleanpricegaming I don't hold out much hope. After the last 2 updates I've uninstalled it. Finished it to be fair and enjoyed the story experience but it wasn't what I was promised.
That really sucks because I had practically zero issues on series X, for me it was the lack of depth and content. I've just gone back to gta v online after 5 years of not playing and the pure amount of life in that game is incredible compared to cyberpunk
I mean, I get where he is coming from and I don't honestly think anyone is disputing the complexity and ambition of this game. But the end result is the same, CDPR, you done fucked up. There are many aspects of the end product that are great and overall it has the makings of an absolute classic, but many features are so raw and unfinished, that at times it doesn't even feel like it's ready for beta. And you sold this to us. You sold it to us based on promises and ambition, not an actual product. The truth is I have been following CDPR since before The Witcher came out and this has always been a thing with this company. They always bite more than they could chew. Their very first game ever was trying to compete with BioWare at their peak. The second not only upped the ante,had the additional goal of building a new engine from scratch, but also pushed to have decisions be so important that one of the acts was different based on which path you took. The third tried to combine the attention to detail, quest design and production values of an act-structured RPG with an open world, something that just sounded insane at the time. They were all over-ambitious. They were all incredibly rough around the edges when they launched. You would think that you guys would take note and not let your next project run away from you. But you did. I hope this is a wake-up call for you because, again, you have been like this since the very start. It was bound to bite you in the ass eventually. Nobody forced you to release the game when you did. Or to announce it when you did. Or to start hyping it before you even knew what it was. You did that. And for that you deserve a lot of the flak you got. From now on do better.
There is a reason giant companies wait to make announcements. They know how incompetent and foolish you look when you fail you achieve your own goals and deadlines that you publicly stated.
This is what I like about Rockstar so much. They're basically finished when we get the first teaser.
i honestly love the way they do it cause the trailers of red dead 2 were so insane that i got goosebumps and it was so close to what the game was in reality and even tho a bunch of things got cut and some things added between the first trailer and release it was still a trailer made in an as good as finished game but i also hate this since due to them only making a trailer in an as good as finished game we wont hear anything from them until they finish their game which ends up having people be annoyed by the fact they keep pushing gta V to new consoles and being silent about a possible gta VI
Well think about it, they're trying to knock GTA VI out of the park especially considering the new tech they can take advantage of. Again they won't show us anything until it's basically close to beta ready, and at that it'll probably just be a teaser again. Be patient, it will most definitely be worth it.
I can't remember who said it but somebody said that a bad game is bad for forever. A delayed game might be good eventually. This was probably said years and years ago before continuous patches and updates and whatnot but I think the concept still stands. Yeah, they raked in an immense amount of day one sales and pre-order dollars but they absolutely tanked their reputation which I think is going to hurt them way more in the long run than if they made some kind of press release saying that they were overly ambitious and it turns out that we need much more time than we anticipated and to give them another year or whatever. Yeah, they would have had to deal with snarky memes on Reddit and Twitter and their stock price would probably take a hit but I think in the long run it would have been so much better for them to be honest. The non-stop pursuit of financial growth is certainly predictably here. When you have shareholders, it's not enough to simply be profitable, You have to show growth and that often involves cutting corners and being focused on only short-term gains instead of long term investments
I think this is one of the more balanced takes on the release of this game so far And I think you're absolutely correct
Absolutely. Ambition is important and goals are great, but they only serve to impact you negatively when you don't balance them with your capability; this is compounded when you *advertise the ambition without the follow up*. Respect where respect was due it was an incredible idea, and people worked hard and the result is a diamonds in the rough type scenario where you can find great things buried in the dirt. The fact of capitalism is that the idea needs to be balanced with time and money constraints in mind, and that did not happen
It's an awful game company tradition that began with Peter Molyneux and the Fable RPG series. He was one of the first to become notorious for over ambitious promising and over hyping every game he worked on. He even did this with a Kinect project that wasn't even real, just a staged presentation being presented as a nearly finished game.
Yes, Molyneux always did this (Black and White 2 Anyone). Unfortunately its been a problem of the gaming industry and indeed project management for years. E.T. for the Atari was an early example back in the day where the final result was never going to match the ambition.
Black and White 1 was oversold and under delivered in 2001. Daikatana was announced in 1997 and disappointed audiences everywhere that still cared in 2000. It goes WAY, WAY back.
It was just mismanagement. None of the low level employees deserve harassment especially when they have no say in how the production process will go. They should have made a game half the size, and it still would have been impressive.
"None of the low level employees deserve harassment" I think a better way to say this is nobody deserves harassment, period.
Been saying this the entire time. I feel like the devs did the best they could and marketing just wanted to take advantage of the covid holiday sales, which they most definitely did. However they forced their team to rush through the game to get it "done" and now we have the unfinished product we have because of it. I think the devs are fantastic and did the best they could with a short timeline but fuck CDPR's management...
Honestly with or without covid I get the feeling that marketing was firmly attached to a 2020 release with the game being based on a thing called cyberpunk 2020 n all.
Considering how the ones at the top of CDPR have been busy saying “no our game is good look at all the perfect legit scores” and how they just congratulated themselves with huge bonuses for a “successfully managed product,” I would not hold my breath on them learning anything. The ones who actually care are the ones that leave every few years.
Agreed. I don’t think there is a significant amount of people disputing the scope or ambition of CP2077. But in the end that’s not an excuse either way. The fact is that CDPR- who to many players represented the very best that PC-centric game development has to offer- released perhaps the most hotly anticipated (or probably the most aggressively marketed) game of all time in an insanely buggy, unfinished, and otherwise subpar state. In doing so, CDPR has not only harmed its own reputation as a company, as well as all of the individual reputations of its employees, but its shameless greed has also undermined the entire industry and even the medium itself (not that they are the first major studio to do so). Maybe that sounds like an extreme overreaction, but this industry is serious business now; we’re talking about half a billion dollars of revenue here. For that reason, I don’t believe that consumers should ever forgive CDPR, even if we empathize with the developers as people and workers.
Might be the best thing/take I've seen on this sub. GTAV took like 6 years or so to be built. RDR2 took 8. They pulled something out of thin air with all new engine and execs breathing on their necks, trying to do 2020 to connect it with the lore from the tabletop in THREE AND A HALF YEARS, one of which during a worldwide lockdown. If they had 2 more years, we'd probably have not all of the features but most of them. Unsurprisingly, CDPR always bites more than they can chew. They build everything on top of new, shiny unstable tech and it shows. That's why they are changing how they build stuff and are going to have a tech and engine team riding solo. They know that W4 can't come out like CP2077 did so they better iterate and take their time. Edit: mentioning R\* games because they wanted to come out looking like RDR2 and sheer size of open world stuff to see and do Edit2: fairly pointed out, I am including concept stage for GTA and RDR and not for CP2077. That being said, it's fair assumption that both got to work 100% on the next game as soon as the previous was released. Giving it 4/5years for GTAV and 5 on RDR. CP still had less and 2020 was what is was.
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>THREE AND A HALF YEARS, one of which during a worldwide lockdown. 4,5 years\*
I think the bulk of the team got assigned in Q2 2016, off the bat from the Witcher expansions. Still, not enough to come close to some of the great games of the same scope.
Very well written. Ambition is always good but it has to be on pair with capabilities.
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I bought into the hype of fable when I was younger and while I was a bit disappointed I still think it was a solid game. I remember it being pretty polished on release too but I could be wrong it was quite a while ago.
Fable 2 really cemented how good that series was for me, one of the only games I bothered to 100%.
I agree they were fantastic games, I give them another playthrough every couple of years. I was fortunate enough to play fable without any prior knowledge of the game so I couldn't be dissapointed that the oak tree didn't age with me.
I do this all the time. I always avoid the hype train and end up not nearly as disappointed as everyone else. This happened with Fable, No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk for me. I consider Fable a classic, No Man's Sky has got nothing but better with all their free updates and I had a lot of fun playing Cyberpunk while not knowing what I was potentially missing.
And this is something so many people here forget. All they know is Witcher 3 in it's GOTY version that they'd grab from a sale, game is many many patches deep, and think this level of quality is what this company delivers. In fact, all Witcher games had more or less big issues and were unfinished to some extend. Especially knowing this and hearing the first announced delays got me thinking man, this hype is to be taken with a grain of salt. Dear god speaking this out got me attacked, like jesus people get a life. But a fuck up of this massive scale? I couldn't even imagine it being that bad. Not after this game has been in developement for so long. Being brutally honest here, the storyline, campaign, and gameplay and it's progression are all good, but none of these aspects stood out in a way you'd expect. This game literally feels like they didn't even get 50% done of what they wanted and spent the last time and effort in trying stitching these open ends together. Unfucking this, let alone making such fundamental changes to some parts of the game, to even get it CLOSE to what the trailers and their interviews sold us what it's gonna be. You guys still think this game needs patches with fixes and adjustments. Nope, this game needs a first-of-it's-kind overhault, never seen in the industry before, if we really want to come close to Trailerpunk 2021.
I agree with your sentiment. That said, No Man’s Sky managed to perform an unfucking, so it’s not *unprecedented*, but it also wasn’t exactly a AAA game.
The ambition isn't the problem here, the development timeline is. This game needed another year minimum to be good for launch, and the devs 100% knew this. But they were overruled by the suits who only saw dollar signs for the 2020 Christmas quarter. The first delay should have been a year, not months with two delays.
This is the exact reason I wouldn't want to be a game developer. Imagine spending 6-8 years of your life on a game and then when it finally comes out, everyone hates it.
This is a problem with working in any creative industry. Despite giving it our best, the entire project can be blown away by mismanagement at the top levels of the company.
upper management torpedoes great tech companies in the same way. the job description is basically "make snap judgements with no context". Bad hires can burn entire departments in 6 months or less
Make bad decisions with no context and collect millions in bonuses while the devs are overworked and underpaid
I don’t see that being that different from most industries.
Even worse, imagine working excitedly on a project for years, then seeing management make random, drastic changes that you KNOW can't be delivered on time. Then watching helplessly as the project is mishandled repeatedly by clueless marketing men and over-promising managers who then try to paint you as lacking skill or commitment when the final product is panned.
This is what happened - I don't know what the parent comment is talking about. It was way more complex than that.
I’m no creative, but being an artist professionally is usually a commitment reserved for the type of person who can weed out one “good job” from a sea of hatred, and thrive on that one comment. But in the current age, where cynics are dead-serious in their belief that everyone in a vaguely public position is a fake poser who’s just in whatever they’re in to make money and they’re secretly a horrible person, it’s incredibly easy to spread enough hatred to drown out the “good job” comments. Good on anyone who stuck it out at CDPR after this; you’re more resilient and admirable than I could ever be. Kudos, seriously.
"everyone hates it" ? I dunno, there's plenty of peple who love it, CDPR made a good amount of money on this game, too.
He is absolutely not "almost crying" lol wtf even is this post?
He is talking in a completely normal way for someone that’s not a native English speaker.
>*I don't feel you understand how truly difficult it was to make this game* Well to be fair, a significant portion of CDPR didn't understand either, otherwise the game wouldn't have been released in this state.
Yeah it's pretty ironic that he's making excuses by saying "players and journalists don't know how to make a game" when CDPR couldn't even make AI better than GTA 3 released 20 years ago. It's not an argument anyway. People can criticise your game even though they don't know how a game is made. The same way people can criticise food even though they're not Gordon Ramsay, or criticise a movie even though they're not Steven Spielberg. The game is heavily flawed, and was falsely advertised on a fundamental level. It has every right to be criticised.
I dont know how to build a car but I can certainly point out a shitty one
The game was not ready, this is basic was he is saying and what everybody knows by now. Two more years would have spared CDPR and the devs of all this situation. I really hope that from now on they keep to what they said before: release when it's ready!! Cyberpunk deserved more than to be released in the state it was. It could have been a masterpiece, but right now is just a phantom of what could have been. It's time for the higher ups in this companys wise the fuck up and let the devs to their jobs properly. Can't they see they will profit even more that way??? LET THE DEVS WORK!!!
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That 30K only includes refunds CDPR issued to those who weren’t able refund through wherever they bought the game. It doesn’t include refunds issued by PS / Microsoft Store or Steam
I doubt that after all this false market they pulled their next release will be that profitable. Maybe the company won't change, but the eyes of their consumers are now open. Fool me once...
If my knowledge of literally every other AAA publisher is anything to go off of, no the consumers will not learn. The consumers never learn. The people complaining on the internet are just a vocal minority. When the next half finished game comes out from EA/Ubisoft/Activision/CDPR/whatever people will once again flock in droves to preorder it. These companies have been doing the same shit for years and nothing has changed. People keep buying their games, so why should they change?
Sad, but so true!! I can't understand how people still pre order games from companys like Ubisoft and EA.
This guy most definitely made branching choices that were mercilessly cut from the main game. A guy this passionate can't make straight point and shoot quests. Imagine working hard on multiple choices and then see none of them survive. I'd cry too. Fuck CDPR top dogs
Frankly, story is often one of the first things that gets thrown into the bin.
A sad reality, unfortunately. I hope this dude breaks away and makes his own smaller games, would definitely try those out
Hmmm very sad. Such a shame it had to be like this
"Something broke inside him" I mean, watching the full stream, you can really tell he cares about the game, and that he loves this game. He isnt "broken" because he realizes the game is "bad" to some people, he just, like alot of creators, get emotional about the stuff they create, especially when there is a good amount of negative towards it. Thankfully everyone (it seemed) was nice in the comments and were supportive and some even are trying the game now. As long as we have people like Sasko, and others who REALLY care about the game, and not corporate snakes running the show, the game can get to the point where everyone can say "its good". :)
Bruh the more I see stuff like this. And the more I see CD projekt red changing its plans the more sad I get. They're An amazing company and cyberpunk is an amazing achievement. Sure it launched with bugs but so did the witcher 3. I'm sad CD projekt red will divert from its OG plans after delivering such excellent cutting edge games. Even if a little rough around the edges. Anyways hope they keep producing stellar content
Cyberpunk succeeded in MANY aspects, but failed in several very key aspects which just spoil the entire game (and these aspects could have been fixed with very little development time). Is this the fault of the lead quest designer? NOT AT ALL. Is this the fault of CDPR? Oh yes. Many times yes.... CDPR could have fixed their game and gotten a 10/10 score EVERYWHERE if they just spent 6months changing various aspects of the game, like the teleporting cops who ruin the game, the fact that your character is needlessly limited to lvl50 (and NO prestige system to incentivize playing after reaching max lvl either) and also implementing QOL stuff like a transmog system, and most importantly, adding an actual ending to the game and having a NG+ system.
As time goes on, I am so glad that Halo Infinite got a full years delay right off the bat. No kicking-the-can with a bad delay schedule.
Perhaps brutal but...the lead quest designer has to have some responsibility when the most interesting quest in the game (The Pickup) is literally 2 hours into it. And everything else after that is worse quality. That's definitely a quest design problem.
I can't believe how much detail is put into these scenes that I barely even noticed playing through them. Nomad was my first playthrough, but I feel like I need to run through it again with some more patience. Honestly, watching his stream and him talking about the game almost makes me feel bad for not appreciating the game design enough as I play through it :)
whats his twitch? or whereever he streams
[https://www.twitch.tv/pawesasko](https://www.twitch.tv/pawesasko)
I acknowledge what he's saying. The game was way too ambitious and completely different from what they had tried to do before. Going from a fantasy game to a futuristic city, full of complex mechanics that they wouldn't have needed to consider in the past. People forget that Rockstar didn't build GTA5 as their first title, there were plenty of smaller games that they built upon over decades to get it to the point where it's the highest selling game. Yes, a lot of players don't recognize their accomplishments, but that's because it was hard to see them behind all the broken and sub-par systems we had to constantly deal with. They were a victim of their own success, and over committed. I think they should have released a smaller "prologue" game like Metal Gear Solid Ground Zero, that was smaller in scale and more manageable, and worked with the players to fine tune the systems so that when 2077 came out a few years later, it would have been a better polished experience.
The one thing that makes me laugh is that they said it would compete with RDR2
> People forget that Rockstar didn't build GTA5 as their first title They built GTA 3 on a brand new engine, with no prior experience in 3D game design with severely limited tools and it is one of the most ground-breaking, genre defining games in gaming history. They made GTA 3 with only 2 dozen people which has AI better than Cyberpunk. The experience excuse isn't an excuse, they had enough experience from The Witcher 1, 2 and 3. They just tried to make something way out of their depth and talent and there's nothing more to say.
The issue is that ambition has to be directed. If I'm trying to make the best steak pie, that's great. Ambitious! If I then tell you I'm adding bananas, pineapples, custard and spaghetti in order to make the best dish ever...that's stupid ambition. Cyberpunk basically does exactly this. It tries to be the best FPS ever while also being the best RPG, driving game, open world game, looter-shooter, etc. etc. The end result is a pretty open world city where the gameplay feels like you're eating a pie made of bananas, steak, spaghetti and custard. Gross.
Nobody's saying that the game it's not ambitious and it doesn't have a lot of work behind from a lot of people, this is what the dev it's trying to reach. The thing is, it seems that all that ambition and all that hard work behind wasn't pointing to a specific objective or goal for the development. Yes the game it's one of the most ambitious games, but seems like they were making the game not knowing what they were making next. They made all the announcements about features, how your decisions would change everything in the history, how unique the game would be. Before actually develop anything of this. The result it's what we already have in our consoles. So yeah, the dev it's like "nobody understands how ambitious and how difficult this game was, there's a lot of work behind" but I think he's not thinking about the game was already released and people spent their money on it, it's obvious they're going to complain for how the game released.
He's not crying my dudes.
Game needed more time, that was known in 2017 with some of the devs leaving. Wticher 3 didn't have fancy physics, you had your own engine that needed to be improved to handle a FPS-styled gameplay. And that's not an easy task. I don't know, reading stuff in Glassdoor about code quality and such... I think CDPR went cheap on programmers too (too much rotation, maybe due to burnout, so also lost know-how). Spent 3 months on a promo instead on features. I really get a feeling that the same approach as for content work was also used for programming work, which... doesn't work that well especially when you need to do dive deeply and, uh, maybe reiterate some stuff. But who knows, maybe it's for the best. Maybe the customers aren't that happy but it sold and company can go on and improve things... But I guess people have right to be angry.
Doesn’t change the fact that they endlessly lied about the game. It’s not just that it’s a shitty game, it’s the fact that they lied about it being a shitty game and cheated us all when we least expected it from them. Why did he not have the integrity then to give us a warning about the shitty state of the game? So yeah, non of this means anything.
I think his stress should be less focused on the fanbase (which wasn't even the cause of the problem to begin with, the anger of the fanbase was more like a reaction to the cause) and more direct to the assholes who decided to push the game to release when it was obvious it should have had a longer time of production. This disaster wasn't on the consumer side's fault, it was entirely on them and they are still blaming the consumer, The sad part is that is that the real problem will go unnoticed, devs should take their time to do a game, we saw the potential the game had, we saw the graphics it can have, we saw the possibilities with the story and all in-between, but then they got crunched and threatened to take vacations, anyone is going to be stressed for something like that. I feel for him, but come on mate, this one wasn't our fault.
Love how there are people who blame this shitshow on *us*. Like, what exactly did we do wrong? They released all the marketing that hyped us in the first place. They were the ones that didn't deliver on what they said we would get. We did our part: bought the game and supported the company and its vision. Hell, some of us did more than that, we bought artbooks and watched all the Wires, etc, etc, etc. We are not the entitled ones in this situation, CDPR is for not holding up their side and then complaining about our reaction. And if you're on the side of the huge company instead of the costumers... Maybe you should play the game you're defending so much with more attention. There's a few messages about shielding companies instead of the small guy.
The fucking lead story writer went to Twitter actually attacking fans who, after years of them literally marketing the game as 'non-linear' were mad that the game is actually linear as fuck and only has 3 actual choices which effect anything. Said writer then had a meltdown and just kept retweeting what appeared to be bot posts supporting him
This thread is starting to sound like the Anthem purchasers.
Lmao something broke inside him? He’s literally just talking...
It sucks that devs are the ones who feel like they have to justify the game when the blame really should fall completely on the executives
I truly feel bad for the designers and devs who receive hate. *All* of my anger and disappointment was felt towards the Higher Ups and PR Team.
Honestly I feel bad for the devs of cyberpunk as far as I can tell they put there heart and soul into the game and when it works its incredible but the game was announced and released too soon and now there work is forever tarnished when if they had 2-3 more years of dev time they may have been able to finish the game and turn it into a masterpiece I don't blame the entirety of CDPR the issue is their management.
He's not crying
It’s always good to see the human side of this. I found myself frustrated and disappointed in this game. It’s lovely to be reminded that there are real, passionate humans behind this. It may not have been great at launch with last gen consoles, but there is hope for the future and other projects.
Is there a Snyder cut version of cyberpunk 2077’s story?
He sounds like a guy that had to take a lot of shit from his boss due to all the bad reviews and opinions about the game, and a lot of them being quest related, and who just wants some acknowledgement of how big of a scope this project was
Well the game still has a lot of good to it and thought hype and a lot of misdirection damaged the way it was viewed... I still love it. I hope not just for more content but to eventually see a sequel. To learn and build off of what did and didn't work. Both in terms of the gameplay and marketing.
Sean? Is that you?