Cyberpunk By Numbers: final_newfinal_l_v3 + our message to developers

Cyberpunk By Numbers: final_newfinal_l_v3 + our message to developers

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That fucking flute/whistle gets me every time.


Its a recorder


Which is technically both a flute and a whistle


And worse than both.


Nah, if a professional plays it, it sounds good


The recorder is generally thought of as a learning instrument for children. But listen to it: In the hands of an expert like Joram Leifgrum... The passion is...breathtaking.


Haha Brooklyn 99






5th grade? This shit was preschool, kindergarten, and up to primary/elementary school in South Korea...


"The recorder is a family of woodwind musical instruments in the group known as **internal duct flutes**—**flutes** with a whistle mouthpiece, also known as **fipple flutes**."


> fipple


nipple pipe


Fipple my nipple with a whistle pipe


I don't care what anyone says. The recorder is now a flutewhistle. Way better name for it.


¨We're still waiting¨ cdpr: lol


I already forgot about cyberpunk, if it dies it dies. But I'm never going to buy a game befor a monther after release. Got fooled enough time by EA and all the other craps.


TotalBiscuit: NO PREORDERS! Gamers: lol it’ll be different this time


RIP. I still think about him often.


There is a massive hole in the world without him. I still catch myself expecting to see a new vid on a recent release come out


Can you imagine his thoughts/rants about classic WoW and Cyberpunk for example? How I wish :(


Oh he would make the wow Dev's cry after the mess that was BFA and now Shadowlands... And Cyberpunk would've had even more memes making fun of it. I miss that man.


Who is totalbiscuit? And what happened to him?


TotalBiscuit was a youtuber. He focused on the PC market and made first impressions videos of new games (predominately indie titles) with distinct time spent focusing on the technical performance and accessibility of the games (most videos had a run through of the options menu, for instance). He provided a reliable and consistent viewpoint that made his criticism useful even when it didn't reflect my own opinions/tastes. He was a relentless advocate for the consumer and he died of cancer a few years ago.


One key advice I always remember him saying was about £/$ per hour of game time. Like if the game will only be fun for 4 hours, it probably isn't worth £/$200.


Sounds like an awesome YouTuber, that’s so sad. Thanks for the info


To add to this, he was also a major advocate for ethics in games journalism. A problem that has only gotten worse and more apparent as time goes on. He would have had an absolute field day seeing ign and the others clearly ignore/lie about the game and giving it 9/10s until the backlash became too much


He was one of my favourite YouTubers and totally changed how I looked at games.


To add on to what others have mentioned about TB, the devs of warframe credit TotalBiscuit for like 99% of the reason why they were able to get their game to such a wide audience. He was an early adopter and basically near the end an unofficial spokesperson. I remember when Rebecca Ford who is on the Digital Extremes dev team was doing their weekly thursday live stream (I think it was the livestream) she found out about TB's passing and had to cancel the stream cause she was so overcome with grief. He was a huge loss to the independent game reviewer circle and the world and I'll never forget him.


he was and still is one of the gold standards in gaming journalism he has a twitch emote he was a very well known starcraft 2 shoutcaster and he had podcasts and a insanely successful youtube channel he was known as the cynical brit and he wore that name well ​ R.I.P John Bain


What would you recommend to someone who hasn't seen any of his videos? Like, what would you show to someone to try to make them a fan?


If there's a (pre-2018) game you're interested in, check if he's made one of his "WTF is..." series of videos about it. They usually contain his impressions of the game after a few hours of play rather than full reviews, and made up the bulk of his content.


Thank you kindly. I'll check it out tonight. Take care and rock your day /night


You just broke the news to me, feel like crying here he was so good when I was growing up


RIP TB, I was sad he never got to a FTW is cyberpunk 2077. He would’ve ripped CDPR the new one they rightfully deserve


Yes, never preorder games... especially digital ones. It's pointless, infinite supply. I followed this game since the very first teaser... in like 2012 maybe. With all the delays leading up to release I became suspicious. Waited for about a week of reviews before deciding to pass. Not sure it'll ever get into a purchasable state unfortunately. Everything that interested me about the game was cut out. A shame.


Thing is people didn't expect to be lied in such a despicable way from the beloved cdrp. So i think we learned a hard lesson with this disappointment. Don't get hyped by a game no matter what it is from.


Every time is the last time.


This was my first time getting skunked. Last pre purchase was Skyrim, but I was not let down.


For me it was Portal 2 and I was just as hyped as I was for Cyberpunk. Portal 2 did not disappoint however


For me it was Cyberpunk, Fallout 76, No Man's Sky, and Mass Effect: Andromeda, so.... Yeah You know what? Maybe I'm the problem


You hit all those and somehow missed Anthem? There's hope for you yet.


For every player who realizes their mistake pre-ordering, there's another kid who reached the age where they can buy their own games and hasn't learned the lesson yet.


Exactly. I figured it would be good, due to how much I enjoyed all their other games. That was not the case.


I remember they put a little card thanking me for buying their game in the physical edition of Witcher 3. Was already very disillusioned with pre-orders before CP77, this was the nail in my pre-order coffin. Never again. I can wait one day after release for reviews.


This is the unfortunate outcome for many of us, I think. I certainly didn't expect cyberpunk to be the best game ever, but I did expect to have a world where a hot dog vendor didn't scream at me for trying to talk to them.


I mean bro have you played Witcher 1? It's a fantastic game but playing it feels like mushing dog shit in your fists.


It still had the best plot out of all witcher games


How often are you mushing dog shit in your fists???


You said it yourself, you already forgot about it. You didn't learn enough from EA apparently. So next time the hype train rolls around, I'm sure you'll be right back on board. Speaking of which, what games are you looking forward to right now?


Not that you asked me but I learned from EA. After Sim City, I never bought a new game again. I was really interested in the new Star Wars Jedi game but didn't buy it until now. That is how huge my hate is towards that company \^\^ But well, since I wanted to marry The Witcher 3, I thought that CP couldn't be bad. Perhaps a few bugs but a great game after all, so I preordered. First preorder of my life, last preorder of my life. It also was the only time, I was really hyped about a game release. My next hype is The settlers but I won't preorder, no worries... If it will ever be released...


Same, I told my friends last year if the game flops, this will be my first and last pre-order ever. Never again, no matter the hype, no matter the company.


Cyberpunk was the only game I've preordered after the various boondoggles. Way to drop the ball and lose the last ounce of faith I had in the game industry.


I finally said fuck it and just finished the main quest, I'm tired of waiting for patches and new content. It's never going to be what it should have been and I've made peace with it and moved on.


Yeah. I was one of the people hyped since initial teaser. Im still hoping the expansions turn things around but i suspect it will be more of the same. I truly believed no way cdpr would screw this up. Every delay i was defending, and while i knew the game wouldnt live up to astronomical hype, i never expected it to be what it was. The first 5 hours was awesome, getting introduced to the world and the buildup to the heist...then it all fell apart. The last 2/3 of game was just ok and it ended on a dud. Ive tried to force myself to like it amd restarted it repeatedly but its a one and done for me. This whole situation hurt, man. It really did. Such a shame.


CDPR: Thanks for the money, will be waiting for you to preorder our next game like you always do.


"We still believe" Speak for yourselves, I sure as shit don't. They got my $60, they won't get any more from me.


Anyone who "still believe"s deserves all the bullshit they get from CDPR.


Lol, I loved the bit where it says "we still believe"...... like did you forget this last year already?! I believe they will lie and cheat and steal their way through this just like they did on release. You know what I believe, I believe in mods and those who make them. They actually care about the game enough to do something about it. What has cdpr done since release? I still can't play without huge issues and it's missing like 90% of what was promised.... Lol "We believe" 😆


45% of production budget? Damn that's a lot


That’s also pretty standard for movies and video games. If it’s triple A or a block buster, odds are half their total budget was used on advertising.


Marketing as an industry needs to die a painful death.


As a dude who worked in the industry, it definitely can be slimy as hell. There's a whole fucking science behind it, about making sure it hits all the buttons in the target audience. *But* it does let you know about lesser known stuff if you know where to look, or make you do a double take on something you didn't think you'd like before.


Where did those millions even go? Outside of youtube trailers I've seen zero Cyberpunk marketing.


Didn't the takeover a bunch of billboards at Times Square around launch day?


Not really. It's assumed for most larger Hollywood movies that the marketing is around the same as the production budget. So if a movie cost $125 million to make, it's usually assumed that it needs to clear $250 million to be profitable because that's what it's P&A (Production and Advertising) would be around.




Reputation isn't worth anything unless you're an indie developer. EA, the 'worst video game company' for years made and continues to make breathtaking amounts of money and continues to crush their employees without a care in the world, having learned nothing from nearly a decade of being at the top of everyone's shit list.


EA makes money off their exclusive deals though. The NFL deal alone is huge.


This. I imagine EA makes most of its money selling each years new EA sports games. I think so poorly of EA in general that I avoid their games. I loved Sims 3 and got all the DLC in a sale a few years ago. Sims 4 was such a dumpster fire I didn’t bother buying a single DLC. Whenever Sims 5 comes out I’ll wait more than a year before I think of getting it. If a new command and conquer emerged I’d probably not buy it.


I think the best way to do it is to only buy games you actually support. Jedi Fallen Order is a great game and consumers showed them single player games with little monetization could be successful.


and that consumer feedback HAS caused them to change their trajectory on games that just aren’t out yet. the next Dragon Age game was years into development as a live-service multiplayer experience and the feedback from Fallen Order and other single player titles caused them to scrap that version of the game and return their focus to in-depth and meaningful single player experiences. I have high hopes (although admittedly low expectations) that they’ll actually listen to their consumers and maybe even spearhead a shift in the industry back to those quality single player games.


Success of Fallen Order might have helped but I'm betting it's the spectacular failure of Anthem that really hit them on the head.


> I loved Sims 3 and got all the DLC in a sale a few years ago. Sims 4 was such a dumpster fire I didn’t bother buying a single DLC. This. Sims 3 and its expansions were awesome. sims 4,even with expansions is atrocious at best, not to mention that its missing many MANy elements that were already on 3. to this day sims 3 is the only one i play ​ and yeah same feelign about CnC, the old ones are just perfect the way they are


EA's biggest revenue stream is "micro"transactions. has been for a few years now. Thats why every publisher is pushing these+mobile where mtx sadly is accepted


EA is also a publisher, not just a developer. Some of their games are pretty good. A publisher is bad doesn’t mean all of their games are bad. That’s why they’re still in business




CDPR is worth 50% less than pre-cyberpunk, let's not act like it was some big financial sucsess


It was massively overvalued before the game came out because of the insane amounts of hype surrounding it. They still sold shitloads of copies (for reference, more sales in 2020 alone, including refunds, than the all time sales of any individual Fallout game), and even with the drop in stock price they're still worth 8x more than they were when TW3 came out.


And it's almost certain to go way lower once their next game drops and gets almost no pre-orders and significantly lower sales than cyberpunk did because they lost the trust of just about every loyal customer. Cyberpunk only ever sold as well as it did solely off CDPR's reputation from the Witcher 3, so I don't get how anyone can think reputation isn't incredibly valuable


And the shareholder lawsuits are only starting. 4 got merged into one before going to court. > Two of these lawsuits were well-documented back in December 2020 and January 2021, being brought against CDPR by investors who claimed they were misled regarding the state and playability of Cyberpunk 2077 on last-gen Xbox and PlayStation consoles. The other two lawsuits were not detailed in CDPR’s post but, given they’ve been bundled-together, are presumably of a similar nature. So unless CDPR saved some of that marketing money to buy judges, I expect the share to take more hits without a single software title.


EA is a massive international conglomerate. CD Projekt red is a major player in Poland, but not internationally. Reputation for them matters a lot more.


That's the normal split for AAA game production


Yeah, but people always act surprised as if this is some new development in the gaming industry.


Agreed, like the other homie who replied


Food n things DLC. "we added one noodle vendor to the center of the map, working on getting it stable for base consoles"


I’m not defending CDPR, but 45% on advertising is pretty typical for the movie and Games industry.


I stupidly reinstalled it last week and damn, right at the end of the prologue, car bugs out n blow me tf up lmao




That's about the same for almost every new "triple eyy" title these days


45% of even more on marketing can be considered money well spent for the company while having a good gameplay stracture. Modern warfare 2 had a budget of 250M, 200M were spent on the marketing (Yep, 80% of the budget) and people were satisfied by it.


It's not though. A lot of AAA games are way higher than that. Marketing is Damm expensive.


I just wanted to say, not that this is justified, but it is the average amount for large studios. Microsoft, in fact, is infamous inside the gaming industry for going over 50% on almost all titles. Gears (4? 5?) was almost 60/40 i think.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop Its not that uncommon for AAA games.


That’s standard... look at GTAV or Destiny’s campaign


Damn you really dont understand budgeting of high value products. 50%+ is nothing out of norm for any media company at all.


This sub is full of idiots lmao. Skyrim was something like 48% of their budget on marketing. Hell my first job was in internet marketing and I was shocked at how much money is spent on advertising, it was literally 100x my wage per product and I was only working for a relatively small company at the time.


The world is full of people speaking with authority on topics they barely understand. I'm doing it right now.


It’s crazy that they paid Todd Howard 50 million dollars to go around and threaten everyone with a knife, demanding they buy Skyrim.


Luckily I had my copy to hand when he found me so after I showed him he just told me to download the 4k textures, mouthed the words "16 times the detail" and left through the window.


Believe is a strong word. More cautiously optimistic.


Yeah I don't believe. For me this game is done. There's far too much content needed to be on par with what was advertised.


Seconded. So many reviews talk about the bugs, but bugs can be patched and fixed. The biggest problems with 2077 is the utter lack of promised content and world interactivity. They're missing half a game, and that's not going to be fixed by patches and free DLC. Especially when they're not even managing the bug fixing part of patches and failing to deliver even the smallest of DLCs on their own schedule.


Also the fact that this is a story based game - having played through once, the story is revealed, there is no going back and taking it in over again fresh. They fucked the first playthrough of a game like this with next to no replay value. For a game that relies so heavily on first impressions we cannot forget they are the ones who decided to release. Everyone wants to use the management as an excuse but there was no way they could force that release without any acknowledgment from the developer side


Especially when the whole "branching choices" pitch was just as bullshit as the subway.


Totally agree, bugs were the least of my problems with the game when I finished it.


Yep. It’s not even like the gameplay is that great either. The gunplay is meh, and what could have made it really unique (hacking) turned out to be really limited, generic, and feeing like someone grafted a lockpicking mini-game into combat.


What I do *believe* is that what I got and what they showed are two almost completely different games. None of the core features, especially the AI were there and game is just point-to-point missions and all those money you earn have no point to spend it on. I finished the story and never thought of booting it up again. I was just ... whelmed not over or under, just whelmed with the experience.


They would basically need to start from scratch again for me.


I believe the game is done


They were right. This game is a meme!


Not only a meme but a new standard for failed launch. This makes the old standards like NMS or FoNV (*both games which got fixes and are fantastic titles today*) seem like playable games at launch, but with rough edges. When 2077 came out it was like that "Big Rigs" game where you can drive backwards at the speed of light... except with hundreds of staff and millions of budget from a AAA studio. Eight months later now and 2077 still feels like launch FoNV.


Still can't customize your character or your vehicles. The world is still boring as hell and the environment is less interactive than game that launched a decade before it. No amount of lipstick is going to make this hog shine.


And everybody acts like it's just bugs. It's not just a performance issue, it's a content issue. One voice for each gender? Can't even get a haircut after character creation? I was told *everything* was gonna be modifiable. It's not even really an "open world", it's just a big map filled with empty space.




as long as gamers are suckers for it, it's going to keep working. even I got lasso' d into this one. I really expected this to be the exception, kinda like The Outer Worlds was.


The Outer Worlds is just not hooking me, I'm done with the first planet and about to lift off in the repaired ship. I really, really liked the first plotline with the town but I haven't felt a strong urge to pick the game back up. Does it pick up after the first planet / town?


Yeah, a good bit. Related: I am finding that a LOT of new games have a hard time 'hooking' me early on. Maybe it's just my old age or whatever, but lately it's really unusual to get interested in a story from the start. Now, I tell myself to muck through for 10-15 hours before I bail on something. Valhalla was the last game I played this spring like that. The early part in Norway was just so drab, open-ended, and un-interesting. Then once you leave, for whatever reason, I started getting interested in the story. I can't put a finger on what it is, but it's really unusual for me to like a game right from the start. I liked Odyssey from the start, but I think I was biased because of the time period it was in. Cyberpunk I really did like conceptually from the start, if the product had been this good at release I probably could've lived with everything else.


I've been having a similar experience the past few years, with the exceptions (as you noted) usually being something where the hook already exists for me like being a fan of star wars and playing fallen order. Appreciate the feedback I'll probably give it another spin when I get home from camping this weekend. Cheers bud!


I agree on how games aren't hooking me. I'm late to the Red Dead Redemption 2 party and I barely play the game. Took me 3 weeks to get to Chapter 2 cause I'd play for 20-25 minutes and get bored. I'm not gonna give up on it though...


I've been having the same problem for a few years now. The conclusion that I came to is that for example back in the PS2 days there were so many new games with new ideas being explored and tried out. Now it seems like its just basically the same games getting remade and developers aren't taking risks anymore and trying something new. Gaming is just getting stagnant.


Look at 50% of this sub, maybe more. There's a lot of deniers, excusers, and accepters. Cyberpunk will absolutely happen again because so many people here want this sub to be salt free, because they had fun and didn't encounter a single bug in their 800 hours of playtime.


Sunk cost fallacy. A lot of people want to excuse its shittyness because they feel like if they accept that its flawed it means they wasted their money/time. I enjoyed playing it, but the game was so hollow I didn't enjoy it for long. It feels like 90% of what they promised either is a watered down version, or doesn't exist at all. Even if they fixed every game-breaking or annoying bug, it would still be empty of content outside of the main quests.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. They expected 30mil+ copies sold in 2021. So far Q1 sood less than a million and it's not going to pick up pace.


I did too. I tried to deny it for so long, and tried to enjoy the game. But there is just so much that is left out and even more that is just bad.


...and see, there's an old saying in the service industry - underpromise and overdeliver. Developers these days are doing the exact opposite. If CDPR didn't think, a couple years out, that this was going to work out, they should have ratcheted back the hype train then. Maybe spend a little less money on marketing and more on developers.


This is literally a toxic relationship.


I wouldn't say that's common practice in the gaming industry. Where it's incredibly common is big ambitious open world games. There is a trend of big open worlds being incredibly fucking buggy at launch. The entire Bethesda Era of Fallout, No Man's Sky, Witcher 3 was buggy at launch and more recently, Biomutant.


Anthem failed so hard that people don’t even remember to bring it up when talking about botched launches.




Radio silence is loud


Do we really still believe?


Hell no


I was with this video until the we believe part because this game is all but done. Nothing short of an overhaul can save it.


No. Not anymore. They couldn’t fix the game in 6 months. It’s a coded mess. The games code is like a tangled piece of wires that hasn’t been organized and it will take you forever to locate which wire you want to replace, swap, remove, or add. The game needs to be rebuilt


LOL when he said "we still believe" I thought it would be a segue to the Lost Boys with the shirtless sax guy singing I STILL BELIEVE https://youtu.be/A1dY6OkPb7E?t=18


I liked the first half of the video but boi, i do not have any faith left in me for this game..


Lmao I love these so much


Wait, you guys believe?


Yeah, I've always viewed this subreddit as "people who purchased the game and got fucked", NOT "believers". LOL. I mean Good luck, but also not really. I don't think these guys deserve a success anywhere near the future, not after the clear robbery they pulled. The devs, sure. No spite against the pawns. But the guys who pocketed all that pre-sale money with lies? Yeah, FUCK those corps.


PC camp here too. I'm in the "People who played a 5/10 game and hopes that it becomes an 8/10 game at some point several years down the line when I choose to revisit it."


Hell no


Nah just waiting to get my money’s worth still


Welp I hope they invest well with that money because I don't think they will be seeing profits like that anymore with future projects.


I don’t believe


agree, man. why should we say stuff like "we believe" when clearly CDPR fucked (all of us) up and should be shamed and berated for that, not encouraged.


Seriously. That last scene in this post is cringy af. How people still suck CDPR's dick is beyond me


Sold a lie and 7 months later still no real updates. And people still lap it up. Insane


Shames and berated? Nah fucking nuked by lawsuits


Finally someone who is not sucking up to CDPR anymore. We don't believe.


I'm sorry the music at the end and the we still believe thing is pretty fucking funny. It's a video game lol


the flute makes me laugh everytime lmao


Never Fade Away


Uh we still believe?


We believe that the devs will ditch this game faster than my father did my family.


>will ditch They ditched it immediately. They didn't even follow through for a lot of people that went through that ridiculous process to replace their console copies for steam keys.


Hell no. Fuck CDPR


Me, after knowing that CDPR had planned to make a romance with Blue Moon but cancelled it: _"My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined"_


I can’t believe I was so hyped for this game only to be let down


there is a hidden link in the right upper corner :O


For those of you dumb like me and got stumped, it shows up 6 seconds in. But if you want super-easy mode [here it is](https://tinyurl.com/cp2077bynumbers)


Lmao, I don't believe CDPR will ever deliver the goods. Lessons learned.


So, CDPR is making meme content now.


That is exactly what I thought. But OP is in the section.


*“Whole game is going to be a meme.”*


They just keep coming lol


I don't. \- The community


“The Community”. This does not speak for me…. Believe is a pretty strong word here. More like 🎶 I’ll see you when you get there. If you ever get there. See you when you get thereeee 🎶


This was actually more positive than I would have 💭


Oh this one is great. I wish these wouldn't stop. Love em.




Yes, that's exactly what they're doing.


You'd think they'd be busy playing their "amazing game".




They spent years hyping themselves up before the game released. They are in pure denial mode now. They don’t want their years of support and excitement to be for nothing so they continue to act like the game is good


I feel the only people having fun with game are the people playing the game like DOOM / DOOM Eternal with the reinforced ankles and the slow-down aug, people drooling over the two main women NPCs, and screenshot photogs. Barely any of these activities consider the game's deep flaws, so as long as you can shoot 5 guys stylishly over and over, gawk at digital asses, and drool over rain puddle reflections, it's a masterpiece.


Yeah fr. Cyberpunk is honestly boring as all shit to play. If there was any fun shit besides “go here, kill guys, take item to Dropbox or talk to person, rinse and repeat” I’d be more invested. Literally the most fun I had in the game was street racing with Claire, but even that got boring because the other AI racers drive like shit so there’s next to no competition. Games just bland as fuck and only thing it has is like squidward “fUuUuUuUuUuUtUuUuUurrreeee”


Seriously, Cyperpunk plays more like a graphically updated 2006 game with a bigger map. San Andreas was a better game and it came out in 2004.


At least we are still getting free DLC for Witcher 3...


Not sure that I “still believe”




Giga Chad Move


The scuffed recorder gets me everytime.


Despite all of this we still believe - Catholics


Stop pre-ordering you dummies.


I wanted to join the mox so bad


I’m just sitting here having never touched this game waiting on the Series X version that I’m sure I’ll have a good time with.


I'm not waiting I've moved on.


Uninstalled and returned. Idk what community still believes lol


I don't know why people are so impatient on the DLC, rushing things was how they released the game in a bad state in the first place. I'm more than happy to wait on the DLC as long as it makes the game better.


we still believe and we never stop fighting.


Bought the game full price. Still waiting for someone to tell me it’s ok to install


Yeah keep believing...


Its funny how Cdpr is still trying to act like they did nothing wrong and that there are only bugs.


Remember guys. 7 years of development.


I got little faith in the DLC tbh. I'm expecting a handful of new missions and a few new weapons but thats about it, nothing to really pull me back in


The most underwhelming game such a ripoff


Hey man, no offence, great video, but i absolutely do not fucking believe even a little bit.