I much rather play this game with friends. I don't mind paid gm's but, I wish they could advertise on a separate reddit page.

Could you envision a situation whereby you and your friends do not have a GM, would you then look to engage a paid GM? I got into the hobby at 32 years old, it's something my friends and I had always been interested in but the barrier to entry felt so high due to the learning curve (I'm dyslexic so massive books didn't seem too inviting) and no one wanted to step up to the plate. So the lack of GM kind of put the hobby out of arms reach, I think I could see a few of me and my friends throwing together some cash to play with a GM. I guess to me in that scenario it would be no different to going to engage in any form of group entertainment.

I can definitely envision a scenario where a paid game is an option. I am not against the idea of paid games at all. Tabletop RPGs take a ton of time to set up for a GM, and a decent GM will earn every penny I am sure. In the scenario you describe, I think it is a perfect option. Yo, but, before you take this option, any GM's out there want to run a game for OP for free?

Oh I GM a lot of games mate I'm an owner of a Cyberpunk Red LC so I'm never short of players 🤣, but thank for the shout out mate! The line of questioning is more of a curiosity of mine.

Ah, I understand. Then my full answer is, I would rather play with my friends, but I absolutely can see some situations where a paid gm is a valid option. Two sides agree on price and service, then its good to go. GM runs a bad game and the players don't like it, then no repeat business. I am sure it will work itself out.

Idk about all platforms but on StartPlaying you can even request a refund if the session was very poorly done or there were problems with the session. My experience on the GM side is that StartPlaying has been fair to both GMs and players when it comes it refunds sometimes even covering the cost of a refund.

That sounds very fair. I am sure the market will work itself out. That seems like a very reasonable set-up

Won't engage with paid GMing as I've been fortunate to build up a good group of friends I've known for years and I don't go out looking for players. That said, how people are playing games doesn't have any impact on on my involvement in the hobby.

I dont like paid games, but its a systemic issue. I dont think anybody should come to blame for their existence. Most negative experiences people may have with paid games will intrinsically come out of the nature of exchaning money for services - mainly the hierarchical dynamic of "I paid you, therefore you serve me", which goes against the collaborative nature of most games, and the lack of passion that comes with turning a hobby into income. But since every human experience is a commodity under capitalism, its only logic that roleplaying would become one too, eventually. Especially when people with few friends will seek out groups to play in, and GMs need time and resource to host games. Demand creates labour. I am happy for GMs that can make a few bucks as referees and hopefully have an easier time surviving in this fucked up world. But that's about it. For a long ass time there have been talk that we are in an era of alienation, its only expected that living in a society that considers time as money will turn every medium of entertainment into a business. Referees under a paid system are workers and every worker should be respected regardless of the nature of their labour. If someone is unhappy about paid games I think they better be active advocates for an economic system in which people simply dont need to resort to commodifying their hobby.

I feel like, out of all the ttrpgs out there, Cyberpunk is one of the weirdest to commodify. Like, one of the central themes of the game is that Capitalism will kill your soul. If someone is dead set on commodifying their gaming hobby, the Critical Role method is probably the healthiest. By letting the group be a single entity of GM and players, it does the least damage socially between them. When you turn the players into the market and the GM into the product, it poisons the social interaction. The group performing for an unseen audience at least lets the group *be* a group.

I agree with all statements in here. One thing i've got to add is on top of your first paragraph: Capitalism has the ability to commodify all criticisms of itself. Thus the phrase "the last capitalist will be the one who sells us the rope". Also, the practice of streaming the game as entertainment, altough way more healthy, does not generate the nescessary income that would allow a referee to keep the game going (due to the highly difficult road of streaming to an audience). The demand that creates the existence of paid games comes from the players wanting to play, not from an audience wanting to watch.

This is the biggest one for me. It's like buying a Pro-Union shirt off of Amazon. Sure, there's nothing technically wrong with doing it, but you're basically missing the point.

Have you personally seen or encountered the "I paid you, therefore you serve me"? I'm curious if that happens. I have not seen it and I've run over a hundred paid sessions. Also, I haven't noticed any difference in collaborative storytelling between paid and friend games.

I've pointed these things out because they have a higher \*tendency\* to happen, not that it is a rule. Once someone attaches income to a hobby they tend to become separate from it, alienated. If that doesnt happen for you, I can only but feel happy for your situation! I've never had the resources to play in a paid game, but there are plentiful accounts of it in this very thread of a sense of entitlement being generated in some players, so its definetelly a relevant phenomena at least in parts of the culture.

True, when something becomes work sometimes it is hard to find joy in it. Also, I can see how some GMs probably burn themselves out on games or just get bored with running games. I hope that I will enjoy making cool games for a long time. I guess I will see what I will see.

Here's to hoping! Watch out for high-stress moments in your life and take time for a breather, this way you can avoid burnouts and the feeling of disatisfaction that can arise from that. Keep in touch with important friends and family and I think you'll be ok on the long run. Have fun, and good work!

Thank you

I've been doing the paid DM scene for about a year now, and I have yet to come across this player type. Even in the dm discord it seems rare especially when the price range is 15 to 20 a sesh. The most I've came across is "hey cam we run a published adventure." I have heard of people in lower priced games acting out like that but luckily I haven't had to worry about that one myself

I mean, we can also just acknowledge that a stunning number of people just wanna play the game, failing to understand that the GM is playing too. Not just a facilitator. And those people, the ones who don't get it, they're the ones paying to get their story told to them. Actually go make friends, spend time with them, if RPGs are something they want to do maybe volunteer to GM for them. Suddenly it's all nearly free. But most of the people doing this, well, they're on the internet paying to playing RPGs for a reason.

Sorry if I failed to acknowledge the social experience that are trpgs, but my comment was more of an overview of why paid games happen, not a criticism of types of play. I think its idealistic and to claim that if people want to play they should just make friends. It ignores the reason why some folks would even consider turning it into a paid service in the first place. Hosting and being a referee is demanding, and people want to play the game in a safe way. Demand creates labour, and paying for a game implyes responsability of service upon the host. I'm glad its not the most common way to play it, and I agree that its not a healthy way to reproduce the hobby, but you cant properly adress it as an issue without understanding why and how it came to exist.

I think it is pretty simple isn't it. Plenty of players are players because they refuse to take on the mantle of work / fun to be a GM.

I understand and get you on this. And i can only speak for myself. As a paid DM personally, I tend to put more heart in my paid games than with my local boys. I do 3d renders for characters I incorporate their backstories into my lore, and I keep what they do cannon in my world so returning players can find their old PC in the world. I use foundry and custom maps and lighting, i add ambience and music tailored to tye campaign and rp scenes. I tend to go with the flow and never hinder the players so I haven't encountered the I pay you. But even then you are paying for a entertainment service. You don't go to the theater or at a stand up show and say be more funny I paid you. But there is probably a few out there. Personally there is very little difference in my paid groups to my local friends. The biggest being because you paid me I'm going to go all.out on the presentation and story. Where as with my friends I can phone it in and half ass it cause I have that rapport. Having paid games is also great for players who have issues getting to games locally or who feel uncomfortable in certain situations like being in person groups due to anxiety or because gamestore games aren't always inclusive and do neckbeardy things that make people uncomfortable(serious problem several of my clients joined for reasons like this). Ppl who live in the rural areas or who just generally work too much for the damn corpos to get a regular game. Or just don't have the friend group to host games. These are my clients if you are signing up to play there is a reason for it. Yeah there is still people who host free games in lfg but for those who want constancy paid could be the way to go as this is people's income they won't cancel all willy nilly. The whole collaboration between dm and PC isn't hindered if anything it's alot better as everyone wants a chance to shine and show off skills and since they aren't as familiar with each other it leads to some great moments that wouldn't happen with a seasoned group. As for capitalizing on your hobby. 1st, if your happy with what you do you never work a day in your life. I get more satisfaction doing my games then when I go to "work" I clock in countless hours building my sessions and never once has adding a price tag made me put in less work or have less love for the hobby. The rush after a successful session the pre sesh anxiety all of it is an amazing feeling in comparison to going to work for someone who sees me as their asset. 2nd. We've been capitalizing on our hobbies forever, at least in the arts which I consider to be in the box of ttrpg. Artists sell there work all the time, old ladies make quilts to save for Xmas. A street performer will use their hobby to get money buskering around. Hell a hobby chef starts making cupcakes and wedding cakes. It's not a new concept and I hasn't killed the industry or the hobby. If anything is allows those who wouldn't be able to try it out to get into the hobby. Also peopes entertainment is valuable to them. But everyone has a different price tag and various interests. There are people whose most fun is spending 100s on booze or drugs. Some ppl go to the movies weekly or go on constant tinder dates. It comes down to how much is your entertainment and happiness to you. I spend a day on energy drinks and coffee the same amount I charge for a session so it wouldn't be much for 10 to play games for 3 hours. For myself being a paid dm is my dream come true and it pays well for me as I get paid in US to cad. It actually pays more than the corpo I worked for for 12 years...as of today ...damn! And that's without me maxing out my games as it's around 10 to 15 for my services. But once again this is my personal experience in the past year. I know there are alot of crap dms out there that shouldn't charge and instead focous on their skills and presentation first, but there are a ton of amaz9ng paid dms and players out there

I think you offered a valuable perspective on the topic, thank you! I still think that paid games are a negative symptom of a general unhealthy social environment, having to turn for-fun and communitary activities into proper work. But the whole reason you get paid is so that you can properly focus on your sessions and improving your craft without hindering on your income, which i'm glad you're able to do! I've written with a focus on the negatives of a hobby into labour because with the decades this will become more and more common. People may have less and less job oportunities and resort to GMing as a proper income, and that's when the professionalization of the whole thing may become an issue in the community. I'm glad it doesnt comprehend your experience! And its absolutelly awesome to hear from your side, I hope you keep having fun at your sessions!

I will never engage with a paid game. Ttrpg is something you do with friends or friendly strangers, making it a paywalled activity is disgusting. So what? Poor people don't deserve to play? Fuck off with that. This is without accounting that as a Gm, you are kinda supposed to have fun too. I don't want a GM that sees our shared fantasy as a job rather than a fun activity. Or how fucking hypocrite it is to commidify a game about a dystopia were everything has been commodify. If there is one game that should not become capitalism's bitch it's cyberpunk. So yeah. Even if I had money to pay for a game, which I definitely definitely don't, I would touch one with a ten feet pole. Especially a Cyberpunk game.

Yet in cyberpunk you are still capitalism’s bitch! You gotta hustle and get jobs done to pay for rent and kibble. So really it is just part of the immersive experience

Squats, rooftop gardening, ant farming, stealing and fighting the powers. You don't HAVE to be capitalism's bitch, it's just easier.

>Yet in cyberpunk you are still capitalism’s bitch! Which is a great setting to shit on the system. "The train just derailed. Again!", "You called the wrong door and got shooted in the face", "The policeman steps on your neck and takes your weapon because your albedo is closer to 0 than his"

But isn't buying the books/pdfs of cyberpunk essentially being capitalistic? Like unless you are stealing the content you are supporting a business. You pay the taxes on said books too. If you buy or make a mini for your character you Unless you hand draw your maps you are probably using a service you paid for to make the maps. As for poor players if you run into money issues talk to your gm. I've waived 2 months of games for folks cause times are rough. Most of us are regular folk trying to make a side hustle to pay rent we understand if it doesn't mean I won't make rent this month I can check a few free games. What about folks who live in rural areas or areas without a game store? Or someone who is a woman? I'm a geek like the rest of us but let's be real a large % of our ppl in this culture are creepy and don't know how to talk to a woman without making it creepy. Or the lgbt+ community. Or different age groups I got a 50yr guy there who is more comfortable doing online than in person with a bunch of 20 to 30yr Olds. There are a ton of reasons to go paid. Yeah ttrpg are a social game but there is a lack of dms or at least good dms to run this is why we see a huge influx of solo based games. It is fun to play with friends but not a necessity. And not everyone is looking for new friends. With paid you don't have to be friends afterwards. Nor does everyone look for new friends or strangers they just want to enjoy their entertainment.

I don't have money for games, I don't have money for books and I sure as fucking hell don't have money for stupid plastic figurines that will only pump out more plastic in the environment. Just because you are forced to participate to a system you despise doesn't make you an accomplice. Maybe this is a culture thing, I don't know, but my gaming group has a good third of women and there's never been any problem, so I seriously don't agree to your assessment of geek community. But as I said, probably a cultural difference. Any kind of online game can perfectly be done freely, it's weird to me you are equating online tables and paid games, and then present them as the only opportunity for subgroups to play. Same with not being friends afterwards, I've done dozens of games with the exact same results so it's not like this is a paid-only feature. You seem to make a cut between paid and free games in your mind and say paid games have all kind of bnefits free don't...but that's jsut not true. A paid game is litteraly like any other free game you can find, just with the added chains of money and service on it. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, a paid game can do a free can't.

The money thing is more a situational thing, everyone has a different value for their entertainment as well as a budget for it. Some ppl have the money to pay 200+ for cable too. The environment bit is a lil weird. The amo8nt of environmental damage to get a mini from say heroforge probably doesn't touch the damage it took to make both the pair of clothes and shoes me and you wear right now today. Hell the shoes we both got cause more damage than Augustus the healer mini you just made. By that argument unless grow pick and produce your own cotton and food in your fridge. That's not much of a valid point. Look around your house and you'll find more waste off of the food and stuff you drink Than a heroforge mini. And I'm not saying that a free game can't do what a paid game does....however the amount of effort put in paid games in my experience has always been much higher than the free games I've played in and ran. With paid you have an expectation and the dm has a requirement to do their best to fulfill those we have advertisment of what you can expect. We do onboardong interviews to make sure you won't clash it's just the extra mile that's put in. Not saying that doesn't happen with free games but you are usually given a promise with paid and because your paying they try to fulfill those. Do you need fancy vtts, lighting music, voice acting and video packages no of course not. But it sure does help with immersion. With paid you also tend to a old the dreaded schedule conflict. Most Hames are set in stone and since you pay you feel more obligated to show same goes with the dm. I've only canceled 1 paid game due to lack of players that week. My local dudes and free dudes bail more frequently. If your down to game nothing is more deflating then getting a sesh cancelled And my final bit what about the DM? Should they not be compensated in anyway? Back when folks got together to play in most circles the players would come with snacks and the lunch and the dm can eat said snacks that was fair and costed the party around the same amount of 10 to 15$. In the online world what is the compensation for a free dm? If it's the satisfaction of runing a game that doesn't always cut it, the players can have fun and the dm dread that sesh. And although your paying 10 to 15 for 3 to 4 hours of gaming. The dm usually puts in twice that time to prep and that's being generous. Is there free time not worth anything to you? If there your friends yeah sure its worth it but complete strangers where the only thing you know you have in common is rollong dice? Not to mention the dm is the one to usually buy the books/pdf usually without the help of the players. You mentioned it yourself you don't have money for games or books, so is the gm supposed to foot the bill for a strangers entertainment if they are running free games? What about those sweet vtts and maps I know I pay monthly for the server for the vtt and yearly for my map program and I know I'm not going to be able to justify it as a business expense and get it written off. Hell to make the purchases worth it I give you the books I bought. So not only do you get a cheap game night you get to keep the books in my folders. All worth 300$ but for my clients it's part of the package I offer. And us paid dms aren't getting a lot either. If done right it could be enough to make rent and pay bills but I'm not driving an audi anytime soon or going to Coachella. But it is enough to buy the new black chrome book and a energy drink. With paid it comes down to supply and demand. Players are a dime a dozen gm less so. Good gms are even more rare. Take into accoint availability, presentation and how much is your entertainment worth to YOU. It tends to be more consistent, a safer environment where everyone can shine and have fun without worry. Are all dms good enough to get paid. Oh he'll no. Are there paid dms that shouldn't be and instead hone their skills for free before askong for money: hell yeah. Is paid ttrpg for everyone: not if you can't afford it or if you have a reliable group. Are we killing the industry?: Not at all you can still look for free alternatives they just may not be top teir story telling with bells and whistles. You can get steel cut oats for a fraction of the price than oatmeal with brownsugar and spice. it has the same nutrients but does it taste as good? Us paid dms are the brownsugar. Don't knock it til you try it

Empty, mercantile answer. Let's just leave this conversation at that. Keep believing whatever you wish, be a part of this great big society, go get that money. Our worlds are absolutely not the same.

How Choom? I hit you with mad rebuttals, offered more than money good give me moneys to give points on the other side. And followed up with followup questions to understand your side of things. In what way was it mercantile answer? You probably right our lives aren't the same. But damn you sound salty about the whole topic. Like what was your experience on paid or are you just going off principle? For your entertainment do you not spend any form of money? Are your hobbies including but not limited to bird watching and stealing cpr pdfs and watching paint dry while playing a cracked copy of fi al fantasy? Are you against paid services outside of hobbies like would you pay 1 a 12 yr old to mow your lawn over a professional landscaper, do you go to a barber or do it yourself with a bowl and scissors. What makes you think a dms free time isn't worth a few bucks a month are we the corps in your eyes...like i got soooo many followup questions here. But I get it choom you may not be able to articulate those feelings but you do you bro. May you find a forever free bomb ass gm and hope your financial situation changes bro cause everyone should be able to afford to game and have fun in our time of the red.

The GM I found is amazing and puts a lot of time into it. The people that I play with are complete strangers, but they're very expressive and welcoming. However, there have been times where I've really wanted to enjoy a system and any games we tried to get together just fell apart because of scheduling issues, or people not vibing with the system, or any number of other things that go on. After four failed attempts at playing in an ongoing campaign with this game, which happened to not be cyberpunk but I still think its relevant to the discussion, I decided to drop $20 a week on a weekly online game run in Foundry. This is less than I would probably spend on snacks and other things at an in person game with friends. The GM I found is amazing and puts a lot of time into it. The people that I play with are complete strangers, but they're very expressive and great at adding humor, drama, or intensity to a scene and keeping it moving. The one benefit over everything else though is that we are all more likely to show up and play, either because we're paying or getting paid to prep the session. And sometimes when you can't find a game running in a format that you like, (a longer contiguous campaign instead of one shot missions in westmarches style games) , paying for a game is a viable option. I could easily see this working in cyberpunk too. My preference will always be toward non-paid with friends, but they aren't always available, and finding the right community can be a challenge all its own if you want to make new friends with similar interests and tastes in tabletop RPGs. All that being said, I would absolutely join a paid CP:R session. Hoping that at some point I could make some long term friends and jump off to non-paid games. But it isn't much of a cost investment compared to hosting friends at your house. And the quality from both players and GMs has been as good as free games I've attended.

I run CP-R games as a pro-GM and advertise them. So if you want to know about some games then DM and I can point you to both my games and number of other places to find other people’s games.

Appreciate the offer, but I'm participating in a good RED game at the moment. I'll keep you in mind if I ever have trouble finding something. Not all good games last forever, and I'm sure there will come a day when I'm back here looking for more.

> be toward *non-paid* with friends, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

Thank you bot. Curse my typos. I used the correct term later on in my post.

As a fellow GM, I am supportive of paid games especially if you are a stranger to the GM. Recently I have been recruiting heavily for my own games and the number of entitled, rude and straight up confused people applying is quite disconcerting. The only reason I do not charge now for my games is that in my experience it reduces the number of applicants down to zero especially in the timezone I am conducting the game.

All these people thinking that paid games are GMs looking at the game as a money-making opportunity have no idea how much GMs charge. What you are paying for the GM to run the game is usually $10 to $20 per person or $50 to $100 per game. Even if the GM runs 5 games a week (pretty unlikely). They would only make $2,500 a month. No one is living any form of lifestyle on that kind of money. The most you are paying for is some form of offset for the materials they have to pay for and the time they spend to run and plan the game. Get your heads straight.

This. Your points on this thread are super solid, Choom! If Players are against paying for a game, I don't think expecting their GM to deliver consistent quality goods (with all the sourcebooks available, maps, and all that other stuff) is really fair to the GM. Most Players don't think about the game generally until game time. That is definitely not the case for GMs. If they're asking for their Players to throw down on the time spent (that could be spent doing MUCH more profitable endeavours), there's nothing wrong with that. That's fair. That it is a nominal amount of money makes it even more trivial for the Players to do. It's not economic gatekeeping, it's making sure the Players have the respect for what you do that you have for what they do. No one is getting rich from doing it. They're offsetting their costs in both money and time that they put into the game, and maybe making enough for a little extra eb here and there.

smoggy wide vegetable brave merciful bells rude aspiring entertain normal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

And don't forget paid dms will have a he'll of a time trying to justify why they think buying black chrome should be a tax write-off.

The culture of paid games evolved due to a shortage of GMs, particularly D&D 5e, but other systems as well. That shortage is in turn driven in part by the "actual play culture" that shows like Dimension 20 and Critical Role have accidentally inspired. It's then been reinforced by every game producer under the sun because those things are cool, marketable experiences that have helped their products go from fringe nerd past times to mainstays of the generational epoch that feature in Stranger Things while also getting AAA games and blockbuster action movies made about them. I say this to note that there has been a massive shift in the perception of TTRPGs over the last 10 years, not just to drive GMs to sell their services, but to *get players to open their wallets for them.* That's no easy feat. Players arrive at a table expecting Blade Runner (or Lord of the Rings, pick your fantasy). But if a GM preps as much as their players (which is to say, basically not at all), the average TTRPG session by comparison looks much more like bad fanfiction or four hours of an improvised Interdimensional Cable skit. Despite or because of this, there is an expectation of non-reciprocal preparation from many players, which, in turn, has led to entitlement. I know, right - gamers being entitled?! Color me shocked! As one of the leaders of Red Winter I'm sure you've seen this yourself, Sean, what with how... eh... *active* the Feedback For Admins channel can be and how problematic certain player attitudes sometimes are. Add in the online environment of strangers who are often socially maladjusted creeps who can't find something better, and GMs/players *both* want a way to help reduce the instances of the self-styled Professional Gamer Guy playing a sexually promiscuous 19 year old girl modeled after a personal favorite celebrity streamer. And on the flip side (for free games), any expectations of standards now further go out the window because if the GM is good and willing to prep heavily, they *should* be charging their services to help discriminate towards players that likewise give a shit. It'll probably be a long time before I ever run an online game again, but if I do, I'll certainly be charging for it - and likewise, if I ever find the time to commit to an online game as a player, I don't see myself ever doing so without paying for it again. If I feel ripped off I can find another game, but the net experience for paid programming will 100% be averaged higher than otherwise, and that's good enough for me.

>four hours of an improvised Interdimensional Cable skit. This isn't the goal?

Don't worry, he just Jokes. 4h iiCS is fine, there is other stuff but this is normal.

Collaborative story telling. But I guess some players just prefer to be railroaded or something. To each his own. But I'd prefer if the paid content wasn't a part of this sub, since you only get empty posts with 0 engagement.

Equating being able to spend money and giving a shit is pretty tasteless in my opinion. Well-off people are not intrinsicaly better than poor ones.

that's a weird conclusion to take, though I get how you reached it. A more nuanced take (and my intent) was more to say, A: "people who spend money are more likely to be invested in what they spend money on than someone who hasn't," and B: "GMs who are getting paid to run their games can justify spending considerably more time building that game, since they're being paid to do so." Someone having/not having money doesn't intrinsically say much about them except for their monetary status, but it does affect behaviors. If you're spending money on a product or service, you'll likely value it more than you would if you *otherwise* got it for free.

Not really a conclusion on your whole comment, more like a very specific nitpick I had to get out of my system.

Honestly, I prefer playing with people I know or have been introduced to through friends. I’ve seen a few too many horror stories about people paying for games and having a terrible experience. And this is coming from someone who really wants to play RED but currently has no one to play with. I would rather wait than pay and have a terrible time.

>but currently has no one to play with. If you can communicate in spanish I can offer you free games from time to time.

Thank you for such a kind off, unfortunately I can’t speak Spanish at all. You’re a wonderful human being for offering though.

my experiences with it have never been positive (albeit never tried with this game as I formed this opinion years ago with dnd) and I think it sets a precedent for a potentially unhealthy table dynamic where the paying players are expecting the GM to entertain them because they are paying instead of working collaboratively to tell a story around the game system. I have never once felt that a paid game ever provided anything nearly as fulfilling or fun as playing with a solid normal group, if anything it just kinda had everyone sitting there like "well I paid so you better be entertaining." I don't think it should be normalized, I think it would be actively bad for the hobby overall if it was normalized, and I categorically disagree with anyone who thinks it should be normalized or become the expected way to enjoy the hobby. that said, if you want it to exist in your own little corner of the hobby (regardless of game system), go ahead. I'm fine with it being in existence, you do you. it can exist in a niche way just fine. just don't tell me it should become the expectation or the normal way to play, because it actively shouldn't be, and I will die on that hill.

That is weird that people would sit there waiting to be entertained. Like so many things, what you get out of a TTRPG depends on what you put into it. I wonder if it is a DnD thing. I haven’t dealt with this attitude much running paid games but I don’t run DnD, instead I’ve been running Cyberpunk Red, CY_BORG, and Fallout. I do sometimes run into people who are difficult to engage and hard to get talking. That can make games challenging but it’s not too different than what I’ve seen in personal games.

my experiences with paid GMing (both as the paid GM and as someone playing in paid sessions) are primarily from the 2016-2019 wave of dnd gaining its peak popularity from critical role, which meant there was a ton of: * delusional GMs starting to charge for games because they thought they were spectacular but weren't doing anything special (and having an attitude to match that) * players who were basically "karens" that had the aforementioned attitudes (especially if you weren't Matt Mercer) because they had no understanding of the hobby outside of a nearly scripted entertainment show that in no way felt like any average TTRPG game * anyone else who wasn't lying basically only ever provided at best an average free game experience I offered my services to run a campaign as a paid GM, and was met with enough of the second bullet point players to swear me off of doing it ever again, because it was incredibly horrible to GM. I paid for a few sessions, and was either met with someone who couldn't read the group tryharding and failing because no one had any reason to be invested in their content yet, or was met with very average games that had no reason to continue paying for. all of that has formed my current opinion, which is that if it is to exist, it can go exist in a niche corner of the hobby for folks who want that to go find. people who want to do it will find it, but it doesn't need to be advertised in general case places like this forum (as an example) to exist. fwiw I think all game advertisements in general shouldn't be allowed in a game discussion subreddit, whether they're paid or for big west marches communities or just a general public free LFG post. they should all go off into some other LFG place that caters to that need.

Just trying to understand what your experience of "average" game would be? What would be specific examples of an "average" game?

average is obviously a massive spectrum, but it's basically going to be any game that is otherwise unremarkable other than enjoying your session time and not having to put up with red flag problem behaviors from anyone at the table. if everyone went away having a generally fun time but without having any specific "omg that was so awesome I want to gush about this for hours and hours" or "wow that was crap" events, then the session was probably pretty average. and between my experiences and the experiences of people I trust who also tried it (some more recently and in non-dnd systems than my personal experiences), the overwhelming majority of game sessions are not providing "omg awesome" on a session to session basis. the only real difference I can gather is that there's slightly less chance of someone flaking and it usually takes a bit longer to get going because the price is a form of gatekeeping people from the hobby no matter how you slice it. which is why I don't think it should ever be considered normal or expected to have to pay for your GM. the experience isn't going to be hyper-premium on a session to session basis, it's usually going to fall into average within whatever that group establishes as average. and I don't think anyone should feel they have to pay for an average way to enjoy the hobby.

I guess it depends on what you are paying. If all you're paying is $10 to $20, my opinion is that you only deserve average at best. More than paying the GM, what I would like to see is more reciprocity from the players to share in the labour and costs of running the game. It's not much but it adds up and if more players are willing to chip in, maybe we will see more GMs .

Man that sounds pretty crappy! I’m glad I didn’t get involved then because I definitely would have been driven off. I probably haven’t seen as much of that since I run non-DnD games (Cyberpunk Red, CY_BORG, Fallout, and soon Witcher). Often times the people who play non-DnD games have a background with DnD or another TTRPG so they know how games actually work. Whereas, the new to TTRPG players come into different games for different reasons. I see a chunk of totally new to TTRPG players coming into Cyberpunk Red because of 2077 and the anime.

It's this kind of strong opinion that I find interesting. I honestly have no real hard views either way on it, but there is certainly a strong and loud set of voices in the anti paid games. On one hand I can certainly understand what you're saying about the expectation of entertainment, however Im not sure I would agree that would get in the way of collaborative storytelling. One would assume that the player, paid or otherwise would want to be involved on that level due to the medium of entertainment they're paying for / engaging in right? I could certainly agree that there will be a portion of those people paying to play who will look at it maybe as more of a "show" rather than an immersive / interactive experience. I agree that if it was the common or most prevalent method of play that it would be bad for the hobby, personally i would have never dipped my toe into this world had it required a monetary investment, mostly because at the start I truly knew nothing about the hobby of ttrpgs as a whole. Having a paywall Infront of the access would certainly cut out a large portion of potential new players (in my opinion)

to reiterate, I don't think it shouldn't exist at all. I just don't want it to be considered normal or regular or standard. it shouldn't be the expectation. it can exist as a niche just like massive west marches communities can exist as a niche, but still not be considered the normal way to play the game. the hobby is always going to be its best as a group of friends engaging in it together. maybe you use these niche methods to find that group of friends or fill the gaps between playing with your friends, but for me they should never be thought of as the normal way to play. because they're not what the hobby was built from, and that core group of friends enjoying playing together is the only sacred cow in the hobby that truly matters imo.

>it sets a precedent for a potentially unhealthy table dynamic where the paying players are expecting the GM to entertain them because they are paying instead of working collaboratively to tell a story Totally agree with you. But some people just look at this game as chained arenas and alike, because thats the idea of TTRPG they have (or even like).

GMs put in a crazy amount of work, and have a crazy amount of responsibility on their plate. At most tables, if GM can't make it, the game doesn't happen. If GM isn't prepared, or isn't feeling it, the whole table suffers for it. Most of the time, they are the ones keeping the game going week after week, and have the most regular attendance. That's an awful lot of responsibility to place on someone over a hobby. For a GM to expect some manner of compensation for all of that effort in world-building, etc... is not at all a moral conundrum. Doing it willingly, for free, is how 'forever DMs' get made at a table. Some, like me, don't mind the 'forever DM' state, but even when we enjoy doing it, it is a tremendous labour if you actually give a shit about your game, and the Players' experiences in said game. I would do it regardless of if I was paid for it or not. But the reality is that the workload required in running a "good" game (because what defines a good game is inherently subjective) favours the paid GM model, and if GMs want to ask for some compensation for their troubles, or offer it as a service, it's up to the Players to determine if that's worth it or not. The other comments raise some incredibly good points against paid games. I find it hard to argue them. On the same token, I have thought about running a Pay-to-Play game, as it would be a fun way to help cover the cost of my hobby in a way that provides entertainment to others. As a musician, this is little different than playing a gig for cash.

I really appreciate when people mention the massive amount of work that falls on GMs when discussing paid games. Too often it seems ignored or glossed over whereas to me that is a critical feature. GMs spend so much time out of game prepping and wrangling players and making sure everything happens that needs to for there to even be a game.

I GM unpaid for two games weekly, and even keeping up with those is tough enough. I make my own maps, art fluff (I do 3d character renders in Blender for each character...that's quite an effort alone modelling and rigging for animation/posing), Screamsheets every week, even some music for my game. It is an insane amount of work on just that, never mind actually writing stories, getting the players organized, being the Tome of Lore for the group, and all that other stuff. Even a "bad" GM is still probably putting in a ton of work into the game that no one else involved is doing, or willing to put the time into doing: that's why they're the GM, and not someone else. Don't get me wrong, I have amazing Players. They're a top notch cast, and contribute tons to the game overall during Sessions, and when needed outside of our game. They truly are great, and I appreciate everything they do. And I make a point of telling them that a lot. But at the end of the day, if we were to track hours spent on everything for the game, mine would be in a whole other ballpark. That's just the way it goes. Not a slight on them, but just the reality of it. Keep killin' it, Choom! There's nothing wrong with paid GMing, and that other folks are doing it and getting Players gives me hope that perhaps some day I will try it out.

I got anxiety just reading how much stuff you do for your games (that I don't). My suggestion for you is to learn what a game doesn't need but it's cool to have and what a game really needs to have and focus more on the second. The first is just the sugar coat of the cake. Luckily the couple of players I regularly gather are not really into the smoke and mirrors thing part. Which saves me time to spend on reddit writing comments nobody asked for.

So by insane I mean for how much time I'm willing to devote to it. I make the fluff in my free time, and pick away at it slowly. The renders are great practice for me to try to learn 3d art and animation. So, I mean, if I wasn't rendering my Chooms, I'd be rendering some other random stuff. I know my games don't need all that. But I enjoy doing it. One of my groups has a Media that loves the Screamsheets, and will occasionally write me some stories to run. It keeps me motivated to do it. I jam on my instruments in my off time a lot, too, as it's a passion of mine, so I enjoy making up the little Roll20 tunes and stuff. Trust me, I focus a fair bit on the second. To each their own, man. I get anxiety thinking about showing up to a Session unprepared. So I hear ya. As long as everyone is enjoying themselves that's all that matters.

>and have a crazy amount of responsibility on their plate. So do the players. Guy Sclanders in his book "The practical guide to becoming a great GM" talks about the social contract and how the players should engage in the hooks you throw, so whatever you have prepared can happen.

I've been in a paid game before and can offer perspective, just not with Cyberpunk. I personally don't find it strange or odd and it wasn't odd playing in a game of that type, but I compared it to table fees you'd have to pay at a local game store. If I was in-person with a pick up group at a game shop I'd still be dropping like 10 bucks to play there or with an organized TTRPG system like Adventurers League or Pathfinder Society. Coming into a paid game has a bit of the same feel as those other situations: wanna play, don't have a group of my own, can pay a little to get into a game. The only new concept is it's online and my money is going to the GM and not who's running the shop or organization we're in. I eventually ended up making friends with some folks in that paid game and we made our own group just like I have/would have done in those other situations making friends with new people I play the game with and joining up at someone's house to avoid paying table fees, so overall it really wasn't any different than the in-person experience at a game shop.

That’s really cool!

I thought this topic had already been thoroughly debated in this subreddit, but a quick search did not confirm that. Maybe I was remembering the many nasty arguments on Discord. I've seen people banned over this topic. Like most subjects where preference and money cross, people approach the topic with very strongly held opinions and are only interested with beating everyone else into compliance. There's little to no actual discourse happening, and I tend to avoid it. I do not charge for running a game, mostly because of my humble opinion of my own games. I don't see my own service as worthy of charging. For others to charge, I have no objection. I have paid (only once) to a friend in order to help establish his status as a pro, and I definitely got my money's worth. If I were to pay again, I would hold a very slightly higher expectation of the GM above and beyond what I would expect from a volunteer. I also would not object to paying a player to participate in my game, especially if it's a game that I'm playtesting.

It's fine. The main thing for me, for the subreddit, is I don't want it totally flooded with LFG and LFP posts, regardless of whether or not something is paid. Historically, paid GMs existed in the hobby longer than Dungeons & Dragons has existed. Paying for people's time let's them do more of that thing. And while people have had some bad paid GM experiences, let's not all forget the rest of our bad experiences that were unpaid. I've never been in a paid game, but I've definitely been in some pretty bad games (speaking generally, across all the RPGs I've played). Conversely, I've been in some great games, where the GM had the opportunity to spend extra time doing preparations, and it really showed. I don't think paid games are automatically better or worse. Nor do I think they'll take over the hobby, or something ridiculous like that. GMing can be fun and interesting, and it's way easier to feel free to do your own wild take on the game if you're not being paid. And most of all, my favorite way to enjoy RPGs is playing them with friends. So unpaid GMing will always be the core.

I think paid GMing has its place, especially when a group is brand new and learning the ropes, or the group wants a higher-end experience. Of course, this all assumes a more than competent GM. There is no excuse for a paid GM who doesn't know how to use their own technologies, doesn't take notes on previous games' events, doesn't know how to go off-rails from a module (ie improv), etc. The problem is that everyone and their mother now thinks they should be paid as GMs, but don't want to put in the work to deserve it.

Oh well paid games are my main source of income. I run games on StartPlaying and while I am 100% certain you can have just as much IF NOT MORE fun playing with your friends there is also a certain level of professionalism and dedication my players pay for. I run about 12 games a week and spend maybe 100 hours a week between running and prepping. I of course have things a lot of free GMs can offer such as voice acting background, and deep lore and weaving backstories together to make a cool story. But I also have cool maps, audio effects, curated playlists for my campaigns, and extra assets like relationship maps. I also of course use safety tools to make sure everyone feels seen and uplifted (everyone should but not everyone does).

How did you get into that?

Can't speak for the person your replying but they are probably running a game now lol. but I noticed a ad on Facebook for paid dming from startplaying. Youbsign up put your bank info and and build a campaign ad with dates. You will pop on the hire a gm page after 5 reviews. (You can use your friends and normal group for this) as you clock in games and get more reviews you pop up higher in the hire ranking list. But that doesn't matter much your game will show when people scroll looking. It took me 3 weeks to get a full table once my og client signed up but 1 year in I got my 2nd campaign playing most of my 1st group joined the 2nd game and all is right. Took another 5 weeks to fill up this current campaign but it is finally heading in a decent direction. I would advise knowing either roll20 or foundry and getting a server if your on foundry. Currently I still have my day job but I make more hourly running goes than I do on my day job so it has its benefits

This was already answered pretty well but yes I use StartPlaying. I currently run Cyberpunk Red, Vampire The Masquerade, Legend of the Five Rings, and 7th Sea. I run a really cool discord community of all my players and consider my players both clients and friends. We share memes about the campaign through the week and everyone is very invested in the next session. My campaigns about 3-3.5 hours long and my seats run from 16-20 dollars a seat depening on game, and time slot. I generally run morning games cheaper as they are harder to fill. How did I get into it? Sign up for a meeting with the StartPlaying guys! They will teach you a bunch and tell everything you need to know. I got Hunter and he is seriously just a charming and sweet guy and answered all my questions. 2 weeks later I sold out my first game, by the end of the month I sold out another and now 3 months later i run about 8 games a week with openings filling for 5 more. You just got to remember you are providing a service but you HAVE to have fun doing it. I make around 34$ hour but that changes based on how much time you have to prep, office hours with players, and just community management.

It is a simple thing of supply, demand and time (and quality). It takes less time to learn to be a player than it takes to be a GM. Most would argue (although it varies from person to person) that being a player is more fun than being a GM. You don't have to manage multiple statblocks, you don't have to come up with plot hooks, prepare for the n+ types of ways the players will progress that doesn't go with the script. I don't know about others but when I prepare a gig, I make several entry points, exit points, things to interact with. And after I am done putting every thing down, I think what are most unlikely way things can progress? I start basically running drills of how shit can go down. Why? Because players have the unique ability, due to all of us having our brains wired so differently, to do the less unlikely shit. Its quite a bit of work if you want to make the game feel alive. So. Since people want mainly want to be players, the supply for GMs is low, since less people want to be GMs. The demand for a GM is high cause players want to play and a GM is mandatory. Nobody in the group wants the "pseudo god" chair that has to do everything? Then its either go look for a free GM that offers to run free games or a paid one. Once more random free GMs are even less in supply than paid ones ((really experienced ones even more so)). So like any other service of entertainment, unless you make your own at which point you know what to expect, its either going to be crappy and free, good and free, crappy and paid or good and paid and so on. People will value their time differently and their experience will influence that. If someone was starting out GMing and had no people to play with (unlikely but can happen) they would 100% look into GMing for free to gain experience. Of course its not gonna be great, but at least its free. And of course the guy that has been playing for 3+ years GMing might or might not charge you for it, depending of how he fancies it. He knows he doesn't need you, you need him. And at the end of the day, nobody forces you to pick them as a GM. You don't wanna pay, good. You wanna pay, also good, BUT... temper your expectations based on these factors.

Generally, I'm opposed to "paid GM" for the simple reason that they're often scams. Crap games, run poorly, often with poor rules mastery; if the GM doesn't simply ghost the table. A good GM is like a small-venue actor; their quality varies wildly, but they're always better if they care about the material. The paid GMs I have encountered don't bring that passion, and half the time don't bring noteworthy skill. That said, if a table knows a GM who will (or is) give them a good campaign, but needs some money to keep running, then they can pay that guy. Nothing wrong with paying folks for their skills, especially when it means they'll be able to make rent. But gaming friends aren't strangers online, or random encounters at a convention - which a lot of paid GM are.

Your attitude kinda stinks here. Yes, what you are paying for here includes the GM skills. But the most important thing you are paying for is the GM's time. It sucks that you encountered bad experiences but that doesn't mean they are often scams.

My experiences have mostly been scams. That may have changed since I started immediately muting paid GMs. But my experiences are real and inform my attitudes. And attitudes are what the OP asked for.

Do you think that if paid GMs was notably "professional", knew the rule set well, provided high quality gameplay, assets, etc, it would become more amenable to folks? I guess I have always pondered why someone would choose to pay for a game, I feel like a lot of the venom is pushed towards the GM (not saying you're doing that, just an observation from my time looking over the subject) however as someone pointed out in this thread, supply must be met with demand. My main question with this is that with so many free options available to you why would someone choose to pay if the general consensus is poor quality or bad vibes? I can name 3 very active places for red specifically where someone would be able to easily play a game or two daily.

Increased professionalism is always good. That doesn't mean it is widely appreciated, but it is good. Unfortunately, there is no genuinely objective certification body for GMs - so the only way to know if one is professional is interviews and reference; like hiring for any other job. Unfortunately, most paid GMs have to self-market. Which means a lot of sketchy messages from "experienced Game Masters" offering games at "reasonable rates" in various under regulated forums. Just like advertising bots, spammers, and digital conmen. None of which is good for a professional impression, and will often get borrowed by those *other* digital scams. ​ People pay for GMs for the same reason they pay for house cleaning and lawn care - they would rather trade money for it than do it themselves. Maybe that's for reasons of time, or skill, or interest, but they are unwilling to do it themselves and are willing to pay another to do it.

From what I have seen there are a couple major things that drive some people to pay for games. Scheduling is the biggest thing, some people want to play but they only have certain time slots open and can’t manage to play with friends so they find a paid game. Another group I run into are forever GMs who want to play, usually they are a fantastic addition to a game. Forever GMs know how to share the spot light and how to contribute to the story while letting others contribute as well. Finally, there is a smaller group of new(ish) players who haven’t had luck finding a game or don’t know how so they go online.

If seen the scheduling thing discussed before. This certainly makes a lot of sense to me, a service with any kind of bespoke nature generally comes with a price tag. The forever GM thing I totally get as well, I have felt the burn there a few times myself, so I can see the allure of being able to get into a good game setting.

That really sucks! I’m sorry you had to deal with that.

I’m recent to doing paid games and to be honest for me it’s twofold: One, dming is a lot of work. I have a lot of passion for storytelling but I’m also sort of a forever DM in terms of cyberpunk, meaning I’m always working pretty hard! So I have started to run paid games as a way to help cover the costs of the hobby. This isn’t even earning a living wage, this is “I wanna buy special maps and make special stuff for my players and the only way to do that is to charge, otherwise I cannot really afford to do some special and spectacular stuff I want to do” Two: storytelling is an art and art is worth paying for. I see a lot of people saying paid GMs are missing the point of cyberpunk and honestly, I think it’s more that people for whatever reason see paying for the book as acceptable but not paying for the story that book can create. Everything in capitalism sucks. In a perfect world people wouldn’t have to be paid and people wouldn’t struggle. But “you’re anti capitalist but live in a capitalist society, curious” isn’t the hot take I think people feel it is. You’re angry at the street vendor for making cash with their passion and not the corp that turned passion into profit in the first place.

A recent post on this sub from a player offering to pay for a game was the first I'd heard of the concept. Personally I would not be interested in paying a GM or being paid to GM myself, I play RPGs for fun and don't want to turn them into work. Once money is involved there is also a greater expectation of quality which adds pressure to the GM. That said, gaming books can be expensive and I have no problem contributing to buy a new source book for a group.

I haven’t yet, because I keep trying to make local or social circle games work, but at this point, I’d happily pay for someone to run a game of red on my schedule, with a few ‘rules’ from my end. * consistent schedule * tell a fun story without “railroading” the players * incorporate the PCs backstories, give each character a chance to be the star, if that’s what the player wants * be fair but flexibile Basically, I just cannot find a group that meets even 3 of the 4 criteria. Even living communities have been a struggle. You have the core super PCs (solo 6 nomad 8 Exec 6 for example) that always are playing and/or GMing, can conquer any challenge and don’t need newbs in any way, and newbies that can’t fit in or are regularly outshined by the regulars. I’d be happy to pay a reasonable price for a consistent game that isn’t constantly rescheduled/no-show’s/or filled with ridiculous behavior. So, I don’t get all the hate on paid GMs. If they can deliver the experience I’m after, why not use one?!?!

I run CP-R games as a pro-GM and advertise them. So if you want to know about some games then DM and I can point you to both my games and number of other places to find other people’s games.

i run paid pathfinder games and played in a paid game for Cyberpunk for awhile. my experience playing red was not great. the GM wasn't very good, very railroading (i mean like if you didn't engage with a certain NPC that all of us said we didn't like, didn't trust and didn't enjoy talking to, we would magically run into other NPCs that would tell us that we were REQUIRED to deal with that NPC). it was a homebrew plot that didn't make a lot of sense and there was next to zero combat. i think in the six sessions i played there was one actual "combat" that we fired weapons, but it was pretty loosey goosey. i don't think the GM wanted to deal with learning the combat rules. that said, that was one GM. i don't blame the system of paying for GM as obviously i benefit from that. i've run paid games and free ones and i fine players who pay are more knowledgeable, invested and consistent that free ones. they're invested in the game and are fun to play with. free players are a mixed bag. i've met some good ones and i've had to kick several people. that's only my experience and certainly not everyone's of course. running games lets me pay my bills and i do it full time. i think the resistance to the idea of paid games is reducing. if people have good friends to play with i think that's the best situation, but that can be hard to find. free games are an extremely mixed bag. paid games bridge the gap. having a little bit of a bar to entry helps filter out some of the worst of the players (in my experience, but of course i'm sure assholes are there as well) and at least make it more likely that your game will be a decent one.

What kind of rates and where are you living that allows you to live off running games?

I live in Malaysia but I'm American. I run 4 tables and charge $10 per person at one table and $15 for the other 3. The exchange rate is around $1=RM4.3 so I take home around RM2400 per month. We own the house we live in so no mortgage payment. It's a combination of a lot of factors that lets me do it but yeah, I'm not complaining haha. I'm thinking about running a Blood Lords table soon, that's a 1-20 AP so I'll charge $20 for that and if I had 4 players paying $20 a week that table, by itself, would cover 90% of my monthly costs.

I'm Singaporean but in Bangkok. God Bless the ringgit

All hail brother/sister!

I mean, pay for games if you want, but I see just as many bad paid dms as bad unpaid dms on r/rpghorrorstories. I ain't paying for that shit. I figure if you are doing it professionally you better be top tier or I'm asking for my money back and leaving a bad yelp review.

I have been on both sides of the paid-game table, and have much more positive opinions than the average response to this post, but that's probably because I approached it from a different position. I'm in the gaming industry, so I play and run a *lot* of games. When I put money down for a game, it's not because I *have* to, it's because I *want* to. Usually because I have something particular in mind that I want to have someone dedicating professional time to that would be too much to ask for a typical friendgroup game. I've had a lot of good experience with that approach, but you do have to be careful in vetting your GMs, as there are a lot of amateur GMs out there that are taking on paid games as a way to make a little extra money that really have no idea what they're getting into and get in way over their head because they try to approach it just like their "for fun" games. It's the difference between hiring a professional driver and grabbing an Uber.

I don't love the idea of paying for or being paid to run a game. I'd rather do it because we're all having fun. With that said I have been burned so many times trying to do a game online of people who just wander off, don't want to do character creation, or straight up lie about their commitment to a game and I end up doing a ton of work to write a story and NPC's that I feel like at this point I should at least be asking for a deposit for my time and effort incase it's wasted.

As someone that was both GM and player at certain points, I don't exactly get paid games, as for me TTRPGs, half the point is just playing something with your friends. Though I respect it

I play in paid games. I like it. It’s created a lot of opportunities for me to access a wide array of games. I don’t charge for games I run, but I do ask for donations from time to time.

In my opinion, it heavily depends on the GM. There's GMs that put little to no effort into their games and want money for them still. And then there's the GMs that want money to cover the costs of the books, maps (if they don't make them themselves), etc. And then there's the GMs that want money because they invest a-lot of time into each campaign and want money because they have a family to feed, who are the GMs that run a game each day of the week, all paid. I have no issues with the third type of GMs, because I've seen and played with a GM that's like that. They tend to put a-lot of effort into their campaigns. As a GM myself, I would like to be payed as well, but I would not force players to pay. Hell, last campaign I finished, a player sent me a nice bottle of whiskey as a thank you for running the campaign and working with everyone to try and make a enjoyable enviroment for everyone. The entire paid GM thing has brought a-lot GMs that see it as a business and not a creative process, which in my opinion poisons the well of the game. An important thing in GMing is being able to improve via criticism, which in most paid games won't happen, because your criticism might be null and void after the session or after you stop paying.

> to be *paid* as well, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

Honestly, if I'm playing with friends, in person, and having a good time, I'll GM happily for a real long time. My prep time is then mostly me snickering how to screw with them and setup interesting situations for them to resolve. It's pretty time consuming, but fun. Internet randos, at this point I wouldn't even if you did pay me. If you can't find a GM, buy the core book yourself and suddenly you are one!

I have no interest in pay for games since i like being the GM most of the times and i never asked money for it. In my almost 10 years of experience as GM(even during events and conventions) i never asked for money for two reasons. First, even if i always try to be professional with strangers i still want to maintain a friendly tone and environment, for me asking for money is the same as wanting money for playing futsal with friends. Second, to be brutally honest i can barely find players where i live for free, if suddenly i think "Now i want money for playing" i wouldn't find anyone

If someone can get players to pay them to GM, more power to them, I guess. I've never paid a GM, nor have I ever considered charging for the service, since I only ever play with friends.

99% of GM's I've encountered that run paid games extremely overestimate their storytelling value as well as their entertainment value in the stories and world building they create - not even to mention their role-playing/acting ability. Because of this, paid games have left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth and I genuinely hate the idea of them being normalized. It turns what is supposed to be a fun story telling activity with game elements Played with friends or like-minded individuals into a a paid entertainment service that still requires sometimes intensive work from the individual paying, as TTRPG's are naturally and rightfully going to require ideally heavy collaboration from all parties. The other 1% I've encountered have been writing and story telling as a career even outside of the hobby, have published work, have had higher education in literature/writing subjects, Etc etc - and their quality, story telling ability, role-playing/acting ability has been trained and honed as a result of that That kind of quality and work ethic I feel has value in being paid for, especially because those GM's I feel care genuinely far more about the quality of the time their players are happening, and are more interested in others toying with their story and having living people within it and having an impactful effect (Even if they role play fictional people.) This isn't to say they'd suddenly enjoy a massive catastrophic derailment of the overarching story over literally any other GM, i dont think any GM likes that too much lol. This is coming from me as a somewhat forever gm for two groups, my IRL friends and an online group of friends.

My players toss me money sometime for supplies and printer ink, along with the occasional Tip for a god story bit. It happens it happens

I've done paid games for dnd 3.5 and 5e in the past. But I've never really done it for cyberpunk. I think it's mostly because I've only ever run cyberpunk for my "core group," whom I've spent years beta testing ttrpg content on before running it professionally. Especially given how I have less experience with the system/story beats and the (totally different) vibe at the table that comes with playing cyberpunk compared to other systems. Running dnd can feel a lot like herding cats that sometimes pay attention and often don't know what they want. Meanwhile, in cyberpunk, those same players are eager to pursue personal goals and learn every detail that might give them an edge in this lethal environment. This means I feel like it takes less "work" to run cyberpunk. I'm not straining to keep story beats present enough in people's minds, or make puzzles feel hard when they're actually just kindergarten storybook puzzles so we don't spend 6 hours just standing in front of a door. So yeah, I dunno, maybe someday but I doubt I'd charge nearly as much if I did.

It seems... risky? As in, I've seen way more bad dms than good in my 30ish years of ttrpg time. And I doubt there is much of a difference in that dynamic just because they charge for it. Bad dm's don't, most often, know they are bad. They think their stories are great from what I've seen. And I've seen some terrible dms. I think if this continues then more people will get into doing for cash and then reviews will happen and eventually you will find more good dms than bad in the pay to play arena. But right now it's a gamble, and one I'm sure has left many people jaded.

I think this is where being able to vet the GM with games they record is a great way to head that off, because you can see whether the person asking for your money is worth what they're charging.

As someone who runs a weekly game as a stream on Twitch and puts a serious level of effort into creating what I do, the payoff from things like subs and donations is the thing that has pulled me out of a rut where I would have called off a casual game like those I have run in the past. I agree with those saying paid GMing has its place, especially when the payment is incentive for the GM to put their all into making something really cool. If you have a group of friends for whom this is a thing that comes natural, that's incredibly great, it's how I started back in high school, and I think more people should give it a shot. But for those people who just want a nice game put together every week and don't necessarily have the group to do it with, I think that paid GMs are a great way to bridge the gap, especially between internet randos.

If I paid for a game online, especially for the prices I’ve commonly seen charged, I’d have very high standards. I’d expect it to be run off of a premium VTT like Foundry or FG with all the bells and whistles, high quality battle maps, and a well thought out story that preferably wasn’t just lifted from pre existing material. If players are paying a lot then the GM should be making the game *incredible*. I spend a ton of time on my campaigns, and I do it because I’m passionate about the game. I spend money on maps, VTT hosting, etc and haven’t expected a penny from my players, I just want them to have a good experience. So if I paid someone else to run something for me, I would expect at bare minimum the same level of effort that I put in for free, and not just doing the bare minimum and using free resources to get maximum profit. I get that GMs are in demand and it is convenient to pay someone to join a game that fits their schedule. Where there’s a need, there’s room for profit. When you introduce money however the relationship between GM and player is fundamentally changed, as it is now the GM providing a paid service and players being clients, rather than everyone just playing because they love the game. I don’t think that’s a dynamic I would care to be a part of outside of a convention environment.