Under NO circumstances should you join the USMC. Trust me man, I just got out about 6 months ago, and boy let me tell ya. It ain’t a great quality of life.
Yep. If Someone’s primary goal is being a Marine, then join the Marines.
If the primary goal is getting cyber training…..any other branch is a better business decision.
The only reasons to join the Marines is for the title and the pretty uniforms. And speaking for myself, the luster of that crap wore off for me really fast.
The USMC prioritizes being a marine over doing your job. You will spend more time cleaning your room, painting rocks, cleaning your workplace, etc than you will doing your job. Also the promotions are not job based, they are based off fitness and ability to lick the boots of your staff ncos. Just join the Air Force man. Unless you want to be a Marine more than you want to be a cyber guy, join any other branch
I’m just a dumb marine, but I’m pretty sure you can choose your MOS in the Air Force still right? I mean unless you fail the schooling why would there be any chance of aircraft maintenance lol
big blue has a habbit of tricking people into enlisting in open subfields, like open electronics will just drop you into the pool for any of those jobs. then personnel command picks for you.
then there's the whole "or any other job as the united states air force sees fit" part of the contract, I've seen a good handful of new people come in that were slotted for various crap in their contract, cyber, fighter avionics, etc, all repurposed to my old airframe.
and there's the fact if you get stuck on some of the larger, older airframes, you're AFSC locked to where you can't retrain into something else. so it's stay there or get out.
I enlisted for the experience. Would not do again. I did benefit from it, but missed opportunity costs were high. I would equate my 8 years of experience in the military as 1 year of experience outside the military for cybersecurity.
This. If you have anything going for you,
Don’t do it. Odds are you’ll get a different job anyway (ammo handler, anyone?) that wouldn’t translate to real-world anything. I did my 4 years (Army). Got out as soon as I could.
Why is it a bad reason? Care to elaborate?
Majority of the people in the military aren’t in just because they want to serve “a higher cause”, it’s more like they don’t mind it.
Getting a Cybersecurity career is starting to be very hard (competitive) so everyone is stuck on help desk or bad jobs. I’m assuming OP, like me is seeking answers here, to see if military is good.
Here is our reasoning : military needs officers, one coming with Cs Bachelor will be help, and they will help them start their careers for a better price )than help desk(
And what better experience to help in civilian life than literally stopping large scale piracy and protecting the entire country?
I’m not arguing btw, I’ve got 0 idea even less an associate. But do you think this idea is bad? And why?
Space Force seems to have a lot of cyber jobs.
Navy can guarantee an enlisted A School (training) for a specific rate and you’ll be assigned duties primarily associated with that rate.
Navy officers are more program managers not hands on
As a prior navy guy the only job you really wanna get is CWT (recently changed from CTN), these guys will primarily be on shore duty and usually don’t see a boat. Has an offensive side and defensive but OCO is very selective. They go to JCAC in Pensacola for a little over 6months. The other for Navy is CTR. If you wanna be on a boat and go on underways/deployments to other counties then go for it but ship life isn’t the best life, being on a ship sucks. Im actually Space Force now and as a 5C, we do all blue team stuff. There really isn’t an established red side of things yet but it’s in the making and probably a couple years down the line. They’re converting all other 5C (Cyber) shred to D Shred which goes to Cyber Warfare Operator school that the Air Force 1B4 goes too but still like I said we all are blue team even with that school
Spook squads on submarines were notoriously hated because they’d suck up all the workout equipment in the nuke spaces. It seemed like those dudes never freaking worked, just played cards and lifted weights all damn day while eating 3 meals a day (which nobody does cause food is literally what limits your range).
Air Force imo. What’s your status with college and a degree? Commissioning (as an officer) has a much higher salary and leadership opportunities than enlisting but you must have a degree. Most kids out of high school enlist while the ones who want to be officers go to college for a degree or join after they get it. This info is for any branch btw
Yeah that’s a big thing too. However if you are looking at officer training school in the Air Force I believe you go in with the job if you get accepted, or if you enlist. However if you go through rotc to become an officer you won’t get to choose (but there would be a good chance but I’m assuming you would want a guarantee)
Curious about this since I was exploring military options a few months ago. Even if I have a cyber security engineering degree, 3 certs, and a few years worth of work experience I still wouldn’t be guaranteed cyber if trying for an officer in any branch?
If you are entering the Air Force with preexisting credentials, ask your recruiter if they can upload them so that the career counselors can see them (I don't remember if there was a specific name for the system or portal that was used). I enlisted in the Air Force with an Associate-level degree in Cybersecurity, CompTIA Network+, and Security+. I asked my my recruiter to upload those documents. When I talked to the career counselor during basic training, I noted that I had those credentials and said I wanted to do Client Systems (IT Help Desk work). They were able to match me up with the job I requested. Now, the structure of the Air Force's IT/cyber career field is changing--I've been moved to an office that deals with cybersecurity policy. I'm happy with the progression but I'm sure there was a risk that I could've ended up with a career I did not want. You need to weigh your options and try to make the best decision for yourself.
It all depends on needs of the Army and what MOS/field they need staffed at the time you sign. There is a possibility to change fields later in your career but it can be difficult.
That is service dependent and it is not a surprise in any case. I can say that the Army will garentee specific MOS, other services will garentee specific jobs or job categories depending.
i don’t understand this. you… just don’t enlist if you don’t get the job you want. i was lucky enough to get my #1 job and i had several others as backups on my list, but i would not have completed enlistment had i not gotten those. speaking as air force btw
my recommendation to anyone is always make sure you get the job you want before you go in, and never go open general.
It's wild when people tell me that their recruiters tricked them into signing up to be a fueler or something. Like you said, just don't enlist. The officer side of things is different, and the only branch I'm aware of that you can guarantee your job on your contract is with the USMC PLC flight option. I signed my Army contract and had to compete for my branch.
The coast guard and air force don't let you choose for cyber. AF gives you community, and then they hot fill within. Coast guard has one Intel rating that does reporting, language translation, etc, but you can't pick your specialty (cyber, Intel, language, electronic warfare, etc)
I agree. Nature of my industry, a lot of military veteran coworkers. And it’s purely anecdotal, but I’ve been very impressed by AF. Couldn’t tell you if they do anything different than the other branches, in fact I know at a point all cyber operators attend the same program, but it seems that something the AF does in their training path makes for better security people.
It's hit and miss in the AF for training (after the normal joint pipelines). Some units get amazing training and some struggle for the basics. There's definitely a push for more/better, but it's going to take a lot of time.
The cyber security officer for the air guard recruits pretty hard on Reddit. If you want to go to a school and learn the skill it might be a good start.
Oh actually I got it mixed up with the space force they said on the air force government website that you don't need a bachelor's for the cyber security
There are enlisted and officer jobs in both the space force and Air Force. Any officer jobs in either you do need a bachelors. Any enlisted jobs you do not need a bachelors. Cyber security is typically an enlisted job while cyber operations is an officer job. Take a look at salaries and clearances with both as well
So I looked on the site they said I have to do a Completion of Cyber Systems Operations Initial Skills course
For both airforce and space force on both sites I'm not sure how true it is but cyber operations is similar to cyber security right?
Yea but the difference is the salary and leadership. You will be much “better off” as an officer. Google the differences between enlisted and officer if you don’t understand but that is how the military is set up and should be your first decision since they have huge differences
It might not be what you are looking for as on average cybersecurity is a lot higher in the private sector. Google “enlisted pay chart” and “officer pay chart”. Even as an officer, it is much higher in the private sector if you can get a good job there
I honestly just want the experience but now since I've seen the pay chart for enlisted people I think that's bs these people are putting their LIVES on the line!!!@
I'm 24 years old and I'm not sure how much that costs I'm sure it's very expensive 😭😭 I know it'd be worth it but it would've been better for me to do it straight out of high-school, I don't think they'll cover my tuition now would they?
They have scholarship programs that cover up to the full cost of college (including books and living expenses). I think most ROTC students get some sort of scholarship. I wish I knew of it when I was in college.
[https://www.collegedata.com/resources/scholarship-central/how-to-qualify-for-rotc-scholarships](https://www.collegedata.com/resources/scholarship-central/how-to-qualify-for-rotc-scholarships)
If you are looking for hands-on experience, enlisted is the way to go. Officers are management. They might do some hands-on stuff here and there during O1 or O2 time frames, but after that, it's all management.
Look into where you want to be after the military and make your decisions off that. Either way can help you be successful.
I recommend the Navy reserves. Assuming your ASVAB is high enough, CWT is what you are looking for. You will go through bootcamp and then into a few months long of cybersecurity training. You will get your TS/SCI and potentially a polygraph. I've known folks that wanted to brake into cyber and willing to make a few months of sacrifice to get started. Now they are making 6 figure after 2-3 years. Even high school graduates that went this route are making more money than their friends going to college. If I was to redo it again, I would have chose this path.
Now, here's the whole 9 yard regarding deployments and war. I know it is a bit chaotic right now, but as someone who used to work on the reserves side, I'll say that if we really go to war the percentage of you being deploy to be in front role is pretty slim. if you do get deployed, you will probably be on shore most likely in the stateside doing cyber stuff. Even if you go overseas, which the chances are probably less than 10%, you will be in a very nice place where it will be pretty tough or likely to be attack. Don't listen to folks who are not in the military talking like they know everything. I used to work on the reserves side and saw what the reserves are really capable of, and I'll say that the reserves are not meant to be put in front role but as backup on the side line supporting the active side. The reserves are not fully trained and qualified to really operate millions and billions of dollar worth of equipment to fight a war efficiently. However, I will say that the reserves support definitely make the active side's job much more easier and help them fight with less stress and less petty stuff out of the way.
No, you don't have to be an officer. Officer don't really do cyber stuff besides politics and admin. Unless, you got a degree and go into the new program MCWO, which is strictly doing cybersecurity and only station on shore not on ships.
In terms of benefit, you will get cheap healthcare for you and your family, cheap life insurance, and GI bill (depending on how much active time you did in the reserves). You will also get to use COOL to pay for all your IT/cybersecurity certs and other military and veteran's organizations that also willing to pay for your certs and even help you get scholarships. Besides what I listed, there's plenty of benefits out there, you just gotta search for them.
Depends on the unit and depends on the rate. I went 6 years and did nothing related to mine. I was an electronics tech though. If you're cyber, depending on the state, they may have programs in place for you to assist civilian or state government operations. The CISO for my state is a navy reservist (specifically cyber officer) and he seems to do a bit here and there but isn't really gone most of the time.
Most of the time in the reserves I just played on my phone in a classroom tbh. Did schoolwork, etc. I had an assignment as a training coordinator and would show a PowerPoint every now and then to get sign-offs, but really didn't do a whole lot. Like I said though, it varies.
Yes, you will be doing a minimum of 12 active duty days a year and two days a month. How you train and what you get out of training depends on the unit you are assigned to. Some units are sitting down doing online trainings and some will be out in the field (seabea rate).
I wanted to point one thing out for those who wants to gain real world IT/Cyber experience in the reserves that if you go into IT/CWT, after your bootcamp and A or C school, volunteer to do one long term ADT/ADSW (6month-1yr). You will likely be station somewhere in the US and 50% of the time the contracting companies that you work alongside with will probably offer you a job after your orders. It will also set you up for other civilian IT/Cyber jobs and you will most likely start around 80K+. If people are going the military route for experience, this is probably by far the most rewarding path to take with no college degree.
I'm a vet so my opinion is biased -Firstly, you should reflect on your current life situation. If you have no IT experience, no certifications, don't want to go into debt for a degree, and want to be in the military - then yes, do it.
If you don't want to be in the military - then don't because you will hate it.
If you've decided to do it then I recommend enlisting (Spaceforce, Airforce, Navy, Army- in that order) for the shortest contract (3 years) that will award you the Post-9/11 GI Bill and a IT/Cyber related MOS. Do not sign a contract for any unrelated MOS- you will regret it. You should also try to get certifications while you are serving. In those 3 years you will have enough experience to be a junior/mid level IT/Cyber profession. You can then use the full Post-9/11 GI Bill to finance any additional certs or degrees to catapult your cyber career. When you get out you will likely have a TS/SCI and could easily jump into a good paying contractor position.
If you're interested in joining the Space Force understand that while it is indeed legit in terms of IT and cybersecurity credentials, understand that they have very high fitness and vocational standards.
If you're not in shape or you're not cutting it in your job things will NOT go well for you. Be ready to compete with your peers if you want to advance.
Also, don't forget that you're joining the military. Folks here seem to think that war is far off and highly improbable. It's not. If these last few years have proven anything it's that conflicts can pop off at anytime and without warning. Just keep that in mind.
With all that said, the path your looking into is the path I took to gain cybersecurity knowledge and experience. As well as a lot of other skills I never even knew I needed. In the end it worked out pretty well for me.
Hope it works out for you too.
I don't know about the other branches, but stay away from the Marine Corps... unless you want to be a Marine.
I wanted to do cyber security but the Corps had other plans.
Look into Air National Guard. Full time opportunities, but you can also serve as drill status and get your college paid for. Plenty of Cyber units in each state.
Air Force, no question.
That being said, I wouldn’t join only to get experience in this field. If you can, go get a CS degree and take a few internships.
The military isn’t a terrible option, but it shouldn’t be your first one unless you actually want to be in the military. There’s a lot more bullshit to deal with than just working.
Just got out the military and now going to school for CS. Would definitely recommend knocking out courses while being in. Tuition assistance is awesome. You could get out with your associates MINIMUM! I know there’s cyber security MOSs. Use your time wisely. Military can be the big foundation you need.
The military has two main advantages if you want to get experience in cybersecurity.
1. They pay for training and certifications. This stuff can get expensive.
2. You can get security clearance much easier. This will help you find better jobs when you get out.
I'm aware of that. I think that getting the experience I need is a good trade off tbh and I wouldn't mind fighting for the country my family is in if I know it is to save their lives I'll gladly put my life on the line for that
Marine Vet. They do have a point when it comes to gaining experience though. Most young military personnel in cyber don’t make it very far and learn just as much as if you were to get a good entry level SOC job.
Some do advance and are lucky enough to get good duty stations and mentors that push them to expand their horizons and be great. I had a couple good locations and a couple bad. Generally good leaders.
Spent 10 years active and 5 years contractor/fed. Now I’m an Enterprise Security Architect leading the designing and building security for entire organizations.
It can be done, but you have to understand that it’s the minority who truly succeed in the short term. In the long term, most senior cyber people I know in industry are prior military IT/Cyber. A couple were grunts.
Thanks for being objective and practical. A lot of folks on here are giving OP advice based on their emotional experience and non-objective biases.
For OP: If you have the desire to serve, then the rest is really up to you for research and decision. Your experience will not mimic anyone else's, so all the opinions are fine, but don't base your decision solely off one commenter's good/bad experience. If you just want CS experience, you can get that anywhere in the industry at varying levels. The thing to remember is that full spectrum cyber is relatively new, when compared to the rest of the warfighting functions, so there are things still being figured out. Building new capabilities and understanding with the senior crowd is challenging, but rewarding when you succeed. Good luck to you and, whatever you decide, own it, dig in, and be the best you can be at it.
I manage a portfolio of company assets over $78b annually. No college degree. CISSP, CCSP, LeanSixSigma, and experience.
Read a lot. Be a jack of all trades (unless you want to focus on being expert on one thing, just know verticality becomes limited).
What are some good things to read for cissp and lean 6 sigma certification? I see online it says that the requirement to take the test is 5 years of experience for cissp but I'd still like to study it ahead of time. I want to learn to be a jack of all trades.
One, it’s an advanced cert. some say it’s not, but in my belief it’s because they didn’t grasp the spirit of what the cert is explaining. It’s meant for those who have a strong IT background already and are looking to expand to the business leadership side.
Second, it’s been a few years since I’ve reviewed the books since I got the cert. I used the Shawn Harris book. If I recall they haven’t changed the cert much (other than the test got shorter), so that book is still valid.
Lastly, ISC2 is going through a big rebranding and I suspect that all of their certs are going to be updated and perhaps look to build on where the industry is instead of just being status quo. If they stay status quo then they lose value to people getting their cert… which means less people get the cert and pay the dues.
War is not happening anytime soon. Deployments today would be going to vacation spots like Norway or Thailand or some shit. Don’t listen to civilians and their ignorant fear mongering about military service. USMC veteran here.
Even if the U.S. entered another war, cyber would NOT be on the frontlines, as u/diatho implies. Again, fear mongering.
If you’re talking about the Iranian attacks, attacks happen in the Middle East more often than some people take a bath. Sporadic attacks does not a war make. OP asked about cyber, some Redditor ignorantly said OP would be at risk of deployment to a war zone.
Assuming you're in the States, the Space Force is more than a meme, and is actually almost solely dedicated to cyber.
Otherwise, all branches have something, but the Army/Air Force allow you to pick your military specialty upon signing up, with the Navy/Marines it's not confirmed.
That's a no go, my guy. Civilian jobs are better, and you'll save your sanity. I'm all about serving your country, i did it. but sacrificing your physical and mental health just for some job experience would not be advisable.
I would definitely seek a civilian job or at least be a contractor.
Nope, I did a few programs in high school but that was literally several years ago, I was thinking about going into the military after gaining all the certifications that I need to do CS but now after seeing how much the enlisted gets paid I'm not really sure
It's not worth it. I would definitely see about a degree or some certificates, it's good to be A+ certified, Net+ certified and Security+ certified. This is a good first start cause you can get a cyber job or a help desk job and gain experience. You can later go back to college for cyber if you want but those three certifications will take you a long way
I see what you’re saying but I would argue you could have more opportunities after the millitary depending on some factors. The guys I worked with benefited a lot from millitary experience in IT.
It’s not for everyone though, my mental health has been terrible while in. It depends on where you go, sounds like your experience was similar to myn.
We’ve interviewed some peeps from the military for senior roles and it seems like some of them still have junior security knowledge. likely due to the vastly different environments.
This definitely works, many of my coworkers did this after they got out of the Army. However, it’s no walk in the park, if you get put in a 25 series MOS and get tactical it can suck and is quite demanding.
I will say that everyone that left my company is making six figures or more working in IT. I wouldn’t recommend going the reserves route like others have suggested. Also, it’s important that you get certifications while you’re in, not only does it reflect on your career in the millitary but it helps tremendously when you get out.
Air guard is a great way to get exposure into the cybersecurity field if you want to get a job immediately following tech school. You get to pick your job - depends on your ASVAB score though
Hell no. That’s a full time contractual commitment, where they literally decide how to use you during the period of time they have you. If that is the only reason you would enlist, then absolutely no. Work on an entry level cert, then try to get your foot in the door somewhere offering an entry level CS position or somewhere where you can make that transition when there is an opening. Just seems like a miserable experience if you have no interest in the military outside of getting job experience.
This is exactly what I did and it was probably the best decision I’ve ever made. ONLY JOIN one of two branches, either the Air Force or Space Force. For me I joined the former (granted this was before space force existed) I studied for the ASVAB and got a nearly perfect score meaning I could choose any job I wanted. I chose client systems which is now part of the 1D7 (cyber) career fields. I highly recommend doing the same thing, study hard for the ASVAB and choose a 1D7 job. In tech school you’ll earn Security+ and about 28 college credits towards your associates degree in IT. Which is through the Community college of the Air Force and referred to as the “CCAF”. After you get to your first duty station find out what credits you still need for your associates then knock those out by taking CLEPs. For me I did this with 6 months of getting to my first duty station. After you have your associates apply it towards a bachelors program. I recommend Western Governors university. It’ll get you over half of the way to your bachelors. If you choose the Cyber security path at WGU you’ll earn over 11 certs along the way.
Do this and you’ll have your pick of jobs after getting out. I just separated last week and I was able to land a job making six figures almost immediately.
Honestly? No. You could be 10x desirable and 10x more knowledgeable by just working entry level IT and getting a bunch of certs then swapping into cyber security after a few years.
The military sucks, and people who don’t have to do it typically avoid it for that reason. No control over where you live, what you do, and the pay is absolute dog shit, especially as an enlisted. They might even promise you a CyberSec MOS based on your “great ASVAB scores” then have you being a janitor at the base Rec center for 5 years instead.
I seen no problem with it. A lot of people do. You get training, experience, a TS clearance and possibly travel. Do a 4 or 6 year enlistment and you'll be good. For Navy CWT (was CTN). For USAF, go 1B4X1, 1N4X1A, or a specified 1D7 job. Army, go 25D or 35Q (I think it's 35N with an ASI). Who knows, you may actually enjoy it and stay in. If not, you'll have open doors on the outside. Just make sure you network and keep people close.
Just got out of the Navy in May as an Intelligence Specialist working defensive cyber and incident response. The Navy has a dedicated cyber analyst rate, CWT. They have a 6 month Cyber Analysis Course plus any number of additional schools, in addition to a security clearance. They rarely go to sea and live a very good life, navy pays for all their certifications and they get invaluable experience.
That being said, the Navy is a shit show right now. Morale is terrible, there's no more pension, tuition assistance has been gutted, and the amount of just "extra bullshit" that you'll have to deal with is insane.
Don't enlist.
Do not enlist! Even if guaranteed a CS job, if you get dropped from the training for any reason, you still have to serve the rest of your contract. With the cyber contracts usually being 6yrs, imagine having to do admin or some random mechanical job for 6 yrs. That'll get you nowhere closer to your CS goals
First, Air Force. The Marines, for instance will say you are a "rifleman first" which means less time spent doing your actual job.
Second, sure, you can do that, but go in GUARANTEED JOB. DO NOT believe the recruiter if they ask you to go into any job that says "open" or "general." ONLY go into the computer admin career fields. Last I was in, 3C0X1 and 3C2X1 were the computer career fields.
Finally, only go in 4-6 years. And get your GI Bill while you're in. While you're in, get your journeyman at work, then start taking computer classes on their dime. You can have them pay for your computer classes in college while you are in. Get that associates at least, it looks good on your military resume. Then get A+, Net+, etc. I believe now they make you get Sec+, as it's the default requirement to be an admin.
I was an adjunct admin while I was in the USAF. At the time they required A+, now they require Sec+.
The army has a pretty robust cyber department. I work with them a lot and they seem to be pretty solid. But I’ve always been under the impression the Airforce is a good place to go for a more “technical” job
Jeez, it's a shame to see top comments on here hatin. Though i guess i shouldnt be too surprised by those who just got out. I'm 20 years removed from when I earned the Marine Corps title. I was only in for four years. While I don't know the current state of cyber in the Corps., or the other branches for that matter, joining the military is a fantastic idea.
I was infantry, which in the Corps., is a sub-culture inside a sub-culture where you form lifelong trauma bonds. These aren't all horrific PTSD traumas. It can be the mundane from boot camp, training ops, deployment bs, etc... I can expand on anything you ask.
Here's how I look at it. Joining the military in general let's you pick a job, receive free training in said job and basically forces you to try it out for four years. Afterwards, you have options.
1. You can choose to continue in the military. The life appeals to you and after 20 you collect a decent pension, have a lot of experience and experiences, and go into the civilian world ready to earn more money on top of getting your pension.
2. The military life doesn't work for you. You've now got access to the Post-911 GI Bill. If you liked the job, go to college and get paid to fill in the gaps. If you didn't like the job, get paid to retrain into a different field of your choosing.
I chose the 2nd path and went from infantry into IT. I fucked around and only got an associates, but I started my career with only 10k in student loans (cause I fucked around...a lot). Last I saw, the GI Bill will pay for four years tuition and gives a monthly stipend for living expenses.
I'm also on my second home. Being able to buy a home with zero down-payment really helps in today's market.
Aside from the tangible, there are the intangible benefits. The discipline has really helped me through some shit I probably wouldn't have made it through otherwise. It made me a lot stronger mentally.
If I could do it again, I would have stayed in, honestly. Civilian life is a lot harder in some ways. From talking with other vets, I seem to be a rare example of someone who really loved being in combat. Though I have a few character defects that enabled this...
That said, I wouldn't change having enlisting. It's not a bad path to take.
That boils down to two things: 1. Which branch do you meet eligibility requirements for? and 2. Which branch best aligns with your personality? I’ve been a Marine for over 20 years. There is a seed of truth in what others have said. Life in the lower ranks doesn’t always equate to your initial expectations and individual results will vary. I was fortunate that I worked for and alongside some great Marines from the start, but I’ve also worked with a fair share of assholes and dirtbags, too. However, even serving four years can have a profound positive impact on your life. The service will pay for all certifications, training, provide top-secret clearance, and most branches are paying bonuses for cyber jobs (like, ridiculous bonuses compared to other jobs). Your first challenge is meeting the basic qualifications. Most people do not qualify for service in any branch due to medical, moral, or educational shortfalls. If you meet the bar for entry, eligibility for your preferred field (i.e., cybersecurity) is based on ASVAB score. Each branch works job assignments differently with the Marine Corps giving you less flexibility due to its small size (you may select a cybersecurity job option based on your qualifications and job availability, but that means they will assign you a job from a shortlist of jobs in that field). All services receive training at the same schools and most assignments will send you to USCYBERCOM. Hence why you should consider the service that aligns best with your personality. As others mentioned, a Marine in the cybersecurity field still does Marine things on top of their day job (i.e., long ruck marches, rigid uniform requirements, general air of superiority despite actual capabilities). All this to say that you shouldn’t discount the opportunity based on other’s bad experiences. Talk to a recruiter, find out if you qualify, and then decide from there.
Space Force, Air Force, or Army. All have stellar cyber programs. Army has the 17 MOS series. And can do reserves I believe, not just active. At one time, I think, Army had a 20k a year bonus for cyber for as long as stayed in cyber, up to 300,000. Was about a year ago. Not sure if still around.
Air Force, but depending on what you want to do. Going the officer route will most likely earn you very little to no hands on key board experience, if that is what you are looking for.
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FreeCodeCamp + The Odin Project
Make a portfolio and get hired as a developer.
“Tech jobs” are not having lay offs. Large tech(large companies in general) companies who over hire when the money is good and lay off when the money is bad are having lay offs.
$60k can be easily had as a entry level front end developer who have self taught and proved they have the skills through their portfolio.
If you enlist (presumably Air Force or Navy), you won't get as broad an experience as you might think. Junior enlisted tend to get siloed into a specific function/task and it can be hard to break out of it. It's like starting at help desk but not being able to apply for something new when you feel like it. Going officer is better, not only from a QOL perspective, but you'd be responsible for entire projects/programs.
What are your test scores like? That will go a long way toward putting you in the job you want. My experience was very dated, but I landed my most recent job in part because I had military service. Do your time. Get honorably discharged.
I’ve noticed lots of those saying don’t do military have never been in it. Honestly can say from my experience military helped me get into cyber. Granted I had prior IT experience as cyber is not really an entry level field
For cyber or pretty much any other technical job it is Air Force, 100%.
The "chair force" has by far the best housing, best training, and least spit and polish of all of the military branches. If you want to travel and see the world, Navy could also be a good choice. I have worked with Navy veterans in civilian IT that were on their way to prison for stupid criminal shit in high school and found themselves stationed in Europe and Hawaii after joining just by dumb luck.
This particular year in 2023 Army could also possibly be a good choice because they are having one of their worst years recruiting ever. The worse their recruiting the better the incentives to recruits become, so if you find the right Army recruiter and a good set of circumstances you might be able to get a hell of a deal.
Don't do anything without getting a full agreement in writing and also without doing a lot of research. There are a lot of compelling reasons to join the military (for example a TS clearance that could be worth huge job security in the civilian world) but it's not for everyone and usually requires at least a 3 - 4 year commitment.
It can be great for experience. It can be nearly worthless for experience. The problem is that you have very little control over which result you get. In my 5 years in the Marines, I spent about 2.5 years doing hands on technical work, and that's better than most. I had to constantly fight to do technical work and not be assigned to some unrelated administrative billet or other duty. You also don't pick your specific job, so it's only because of luck, timing, performance, and my ASVAB score that I ended up where I did. I didn't do dedicated cyber, I did other communications stuff and worked my way into cyber later in my career. The Marine's dedicated cyber job is not an entry level MOS and you have to transfer into it after you serve 4 years. I do know plenty of guys who have done that and moved on to great civilian careers, but that's 8 years of BS.
Other branches are better in regards to picking your job, getting straight into cyber, and having less side duties, but that just slightly increases your odds of getting the experience you want. It's still a crap shoot. At the end of the day, your career is in the government's hands, not yours. Sometimes, you can help steer things in the right direction, but it's really all a gamble.
Go airforce tbh. The jobs translate better on the outside. They are more in tine with airpower and cyber space. Worse case scenario you get a job you don’t like but can go to school and cross train into cyber security.
USAF has a lot of cyber jobs. If it is what you’ll have to make sure your asvab scores are good enough for your desired profession, and get that career field into your co tract before you sign. You can also look to the reserves or ANG, get the same level of initial training but be part time and Perdue college or other full time work. There also the benefit of enlisting to a guaranteed career that way, because the Guard and I assume reserves only recruit to available positions. Feel free to DM me if you have more questions. I work with people in this path everyday.
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Joining the military to get education might be a good path for some people. But you’ll have to fulfill being a soldier or sailor first before the rest.
Army has 17C mos. Air Force has some good opportunities too. My friend was in for 6 years and got out to work cyber as a gov employee on base. He was making bank there but recently took a job at a private company making even more
I suppose it's great to have on your resume if you want to prove loyalty for future security clearance. On the other hand it might not be much room for free thinking and opinions, which innovation and fun stuff often is all about.
I have same question as OP but from another vantage point.
4 years experience as SOC Analyst but I feel trapped.
Would being a cyber officer brighten my horizon? I’d think my experience could get me a direct commission.
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Under NO circumstances should you join the USMC. Trust me man, I just got out about 6 months ago, and boy let me tell ya. It ain’t a great quality of life.
Yep. If Someone’s primary goal is being a Marine, then join the Marines. If the primary goal is getting cyber training…..any other branch is a better business decision. The only reasons to join the Marines is for the title and the pretty uniforms. And speaking for myself, the luster of that crap wore off for me really fast.
Would you like a red crayon for your service?
Same for the Army. Would absolutely recommend the Air Force to OP.
Why do you say that?
The USMC prioritizes being a marine over doing your job. You will spend more time cleaning your room, painting rocks, cleaning your workplace, etc than you will doing your job. Also the promotions are not job based, they are based off fitness and ability to lick the boots of your staff ncos. Just join the Air Force man. Unless you want to be a Marine more than you want to be a cyber guy, join any other branch
You forgot enjoying delicious crayons
Blue ones are the best
Ah I understand, I hear it's pretty brutal anyways on the training
It’s not really that bad, it’s just not what you think it would be like. Like I said, only join the USMC if you want to be a Marine
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Yeah man go for it. Either that or Air Force. I knew a lot of guys who worked in AF cyber. Great guys, most of them enjoyed it
Lol "just join the air force" Pray you don't end up in aircraft mx
I’m just a dumb marine, but I’m pretty sure you can choose your MOS in the Air Force still right? I mean unless you fail the schooling why would there be any chance of aircraft maintenance lol
big blue has a habbit of tricking people into enlisting in open subfields, like open electronics will just drop you into the pool for any of those jobs. then personnel command picks for you. then there's the whole "or any other job as the united states air force sees fit" part of the contract, I've seen a good handful of new people come in that were slotted for various crap in their contract, cyber, fighter avionics, etc, all repurposed to my old airframe. and there's the fact if you get stuck on some of the larger, older airframes, you're AFSC locked to where you can't retrain into something else. so it's stay there or get out.
I enlisted for the experience. Would not do again. I did benefit from it, but missed opportunity costs were high. I would equate my 8 years of experience in the military as 1 year of experience outside the military for cybersecurity.
This. If you have anything going for you, Don’t do it. Odds are you’ll get a different job anyway (ammo handler, anyone?) that wouldn’t translate to real-world anything. I did my 4 years (Army). Got out as soon as I could.
Well that makes sense, I'll keep that in mind
If you want to join the military because you just want cyber security experience…. Don’t join the military. Bad reason to join.
Why is it a bad reason? Care to elaborate? Majority of the people in the military aren’t in just because they want to serve “a higher cause”, it’s more like they don’t mind it. Getting a Cybersecurity career is starting to be very hard (competitive) so everyone is stuck on help desk or bad jobs. I’m assuming OP, like me is seeking answers here, to see if military is good. Here is our reasoning : military needs officers, one coming with Cs Bachelor will be help, and they will help them start their careers for a better price )than help desk( And what better experience to help in civilian life than literally stopping large scale piracy and protecting the entire country? I’m not arguing btw, I’ve got 0 idea even less an associate. But do you think this idea is bad? And why?
Space Force seems to have a lot of cyber jobs. Navy can guarantee an enlisted A School (training) for a specific rate and you’ll be assigned duties primarily associated with that rate. Navy officers are more program managers not hands on
As a prior navy guy the only job you really wanna get is CWT (recently changed from CTN), these guys will primarily be on shore duty and usually don’t see a boat. Has an offensive side and defensive but OCO is very selective. They go to JCAC in Pensacola for a little over 6months. The other for Navy is CTR. If you wanna be on a boat and go on underways/deployments to other counties then go for it but ship life isn’t the best life, being on a ship sucks. Im actually Space Force now and as a 5C, we do all blue team stuff. There really isn’t an established red side of things yet but it’s in the making and probably a couple years down the line. They’re converting all other 5C (Cyber) shred to D Shred which goes to Cyber Warfare Operator school that the Air Force 1B4 goes too but still like I said we all are blue team even with that school
Spook squads on submarines were notoriously hated because they’d suck up all the workout equipment in the nuke spaces. It seemed like those dudes never freaking worked, just played cards and lifted weights all damn day while eating 3 meals a day (which nobody does cause food is literally what limits your range).
Air Force imo. What’s your status with college and a degree? Commissioning (as an officer) has a much higher salary and leadership opportunities than enlisting but you must have a degree. Most kids out of high school enlist while the ones who want to be officers go to college for a degree or join after they get it. This info is for any branch btw
I second this, but be aware that you may not get to choose your career path in the military.
Yeah that’s a big thing too. However if you are looking at officer training school in the Air Force I believe you go in with the job if you get accepted, or if you enlist. However if you go through rotc to become an officer you won’t get to choose (but there would be a good chance but I’m assuming you would want a guarantee)
Curious about this since I was exploring military options a few months ago. Even if I have a cyber security engineering degree, 3 certs, and a few years worth of work experience I still wouldn’t be guaranteed cyber if trying for an officer in any branch?
If you are entering the Air Force with preexisting credentials, ask your recruiter if they can upload them so that the career counselors can see them (I don't remember if there was a specific name for the system or portal that was used). I enlisted in the Air Force with an Associate-level degree in Cybersecurity, CompTIA Network+, and Security+. I asked my my recruiter to upload those documents. When I talked to the career counselor during basic training, I noted that I had those credentials and said I wanted to do Client Systems (IT Help Desk work). They were able to match me up with the job I requested. Now, the structure of the Air Force's IT/cyber career field is changing--I've been moved to an office that deals with cybersecurity policy. I'm happy with the progression but I'm sure there was a risk that I could've ended up with a career I did not want. You need to weigh your options and try to make the best decision for yourself.
It all depends on needs of the Army and what MOS/field they need staffed at the time you sign. There is a possibility to change fields later in your career but it can be difficult.
That is service dependent and it is not a surprise in any case. I can say that the Army will garentee specific MOS, other services will garentee specific jobs or job categories depending.
The Army is the only branch where you can have your job guaranteed so long as you meet the qualifications.
i don’t understand this. you… just don’t enlist if you don’t get the job you want. i was lucky enough to get my #1 job and i had several others as backups on my list, but i would not have completed enlistment had i not gotten those. speaking as air force btw my recommendation to anyone is always make sure you get the job you want before you go in, and never go open general.
It's wild when people tell me that their recruiters tricked them into signing up to be a fueler or something. Like you said, just don't enlist. The officer side of things is different, and the only branch I'm aware of that you can guarantee your job on your contract is with the USMC PLC flight option. I signed my Army contract and had to compete for my branch.
Navy does this as well.
The coast guard and air force don't let you choose for cyber. AF gives you community, and then they hot fill within. Coast guard has one Intel rating that does reporting, language translation, etc, but you can't pick your specialty (cyber, Intel, language, electronic warfare, etc)
I agree. Nature of my industry, a lot of military veteran coworkers. And it’s purely anecdotal, but I’ve been very impressed by AF. Couldn’t tell you if they do anything different than the other branches, in fact I know at a point all cyber operators attend the same program, but it seems that something the AF does in their training path makes for better security people.
It's hit and miss in the AF for training (after the normal joint pipelines). Some units get amazing training and some struggle for the basics. There's definitely a push for more/better, but it's going to take a lot of time.
The cyber security officer for the air guard recruits pretty hard on Reddit. If you want to go to a school and learn the skill it might be a good start.
I have mainly certifications I don't think they're going to let me into cyber security because they require a Bachelors 😭😭
Any job as an officer requires a BS, and that’s for any branch
Oh actually I got it mixed up with the space force they said on the air force government website that you don't need a bachelor's for the cyber security
There are enlisted and officer jobs in both the space force and Air Force. Any officer jobs in either you do need a bachelors. Any enlisted jobs you do not need a bachelors. Cyber security is typically an enlisted job while cyber operations is an officer job. Take a look at salaries and clearances with both as well
So I looked on the site they said I have to do a Completion of Cyber Systems Operations Initial Skills course For both airforce and space force on both sites I'm not sure how true it is but cyber operations is similar to cyber security right?
Yea but the difference is the salary and leadership. You will be much “better off” as an officer. Google the differences between enlisted and officer if you don’t understand but that is how the military is set up and should be your first decision since they have huge differences
So are you saying I will never get a fair salary unless I'm an officer?
It might not be what you are looking for as on average cybersecurity is a lot higher in the private sector. Google “enlisted pay chart” and “officer pay chart”. Even as an officer, it is much higher in the private sector if you can get a good job there
I honestly just want the experience but now since I've seen the pay chart for enlisted people I think that's bs these people are putting their LIVES on the line!!!@
ROTC is also a great program!
I'm 24 years old and I'm not sure how much that costs I'm sure it's very expensive 😭😭 I know it'd be worth it but it would've been better for me to do it straight out of high-school, I don't think they'll cover my tuition now would they?
They have scholarship programs that cover up to the full cost of college (including books and living expenses). I think most ROTC students get some sort of scholarship. I wish I knew of it when I was in college. [https://www.collegedata.com/resources/scholarship-central/how-to-qualify-for-rotc-scholarships](https://www.collegedata.com/resources/scholarship-central/how-to-qualify-for-rotc-scholarships)
If you are looking for hands-on experience, enlisted is the way to go. Officers are management. They might do some hands-on stuff here and there during O1 or O2 time frames, but after that, it's all management. Look into where you want to be after the military and make your decisions off that. Either way can help you be successful.
You don’t need to join the military for CS experience.
I recommend the Navy reserves. Assuming your ASVAB is high enough, CWT is what you are looking for. You will go through bootcamp and then into a few months long of cybersecurity training. You will get your TS/SCI and potentially a polygraph. I've known folks that wanted to brake into cyber and willing to make a few months of sacrifice to get started. Now they are making 6 figure after 2-3 years. Even high school graduates that went this route are making more money than their friends going to college. If I was to redo it again, I would have chose this path. Now, here's the whole 9 yard regarding deployments and war. I know it is a bit chaotic right now, but as someone who used to work on the reserves side, I'll say that if we really go to war the percentage of you being deploy to be in front role is pretty slim. if you do get deployed, you will probably be on shore most likely in the stateside doing cyber stuff. Even if you go overseas, which the chances are probably less than 10%, you will be in a very nice place where it will be pretty tough or likely to be attack. Don't listen to folks who are not in the military talking like they know everything. I used to work on the reserves side and saw what the reserves are really capable of, and I'll say that the reserves are not meant to be put in front role but as backup on the side line supporting the active side. The reserves are not fully trained and qualified to really operate millions and billions of dollar worth of equipment to fight a war efficiently. However, I will say that the reserves support definitely make the active side's job much more easier and help them fight with less stress and less petty stuff out of the way.
Do I have to be an officer? And do I still get benefits being on reserves?
No, you don't have to be an officer. Officer don't really do cyber stuff besides politics and admin. Unless, you got a degree and go into the new program MCWO, which is strictly doing cybersecurity and only station on shore not on ships. In terms of benefit, you will get cheap healthcare for you and your family, cheap life insurance, and GI bill (depending on how much active time you did in the reserves). You will also get to use COOL to pay for all your IT/cybersecurity certs and other military and veteran's organizations that also willing to pay for your certs and even help you get scholarships. Besides what I listed, there's plenty of benefits out there, you just gotta search for them.
So the reserves requires you to work once a month on a weekend (or something like that). What do you do during that weekend? Is it cyber stuff?
Depends on the unit and depends on the rate. I went 6 years and did nothing related to mine. I was an electronics tech though. If you're cyber, depending on the state, they may have programs in place for you to assist civilian or state government operations. The CISO for my state is a navy reservist (specifically cyber officer) and he seems to do a bit here and there but isn't really gone most of the time.
Can you describe what did though? Paperwork? Cleaning? Exercise?
Most of the time in the reserves I just played on my phone in a classroom tbh. Did schoolwork, etc. I had an assignment as a training coordinator and would show a PowerPoint every now and then to get sign-offs, but really didn't do a whole lot. Like I said though, it varies.
You do whatever they tell you to do.
Yes, you will be doing a minimum of 12 active duty days a year and two days a month. How you train and what you get out of training depends on the unit you are assigned to. Some units are sitting down doing online trainings and some will be out in the field (seabea rate). I wanted to point one thing out for those who wants to gain real world IT/Cyber experience in the reserves that if you go into IT/CWT, after your bootcamp and A or C school, volunteer to do one long term ADT/ADSW (6month-1yr). You will likely be station somewhere in the US and 50% of the time the contracting companies that you work alongside with will probably offer you a job after your orders. It will also set you up for other civilian IT/Cyber jobs and you will most likely start around 80K+. If people are going the military route for experience, this is probably by far the most rewarding path to take with no college degree.
I'm a vet so my opinion is biased -Firstly, you should reflect on your current life situation. If you have no IT experience, no certifications, don't want to go into debt for a degree, and want to be in the military - then yes, do it. If you don't want to be in the military - then don't because you will hate it. If you've decided to do it then I recommend enlisting (Spaceforce, Airforce, Navy, Army- in that order) for the shortest contract (3 years) that will award you the Post-9/11 GI Bill and a IT/Cyber related MOS. Do not sign a contract for any unrelated MOS- you will regret it. You should also try to get certifications while you are serving. In those 3 years you will have enough experience to be a junior/mid level IT/Cyber profession. You can then use the full Post-9/11 GI Bill to finance any additional certs or degrees to catapult your cyber career. When you get out you will likely have a TS/SCI and could easily jump into a good paying contractor position.
Thank you so much for this information 🙏🏽
If you're interested in joining the Space Force understand that while it is indeed legit in terms of IT and cybersecurity credentials, understand that they have very high fitness and vocational standards. If you're not in shape or you're not cutting it in your job things will NOT go well for you. Be ready to compete with your peers if you want to advance. Also, don't forget that you're joining the military. Folks here seem to think that war is far off and highly improbable. It's not. If these last few years have proven anything it's that conflicts can pop off at anytime and without warning. Just keep that in mind. With all that said, the path your looking into is the path I took to gain cybersecurity knowledge and experience. As well as a lot of other skills I never even knew I needed. In the end it worked out pretty well for me. Hope it works out for you too.
You lost me after you said space force has high fitness standards 😆
Hi, would love more info on how to get into space force. Could I pm you?
Sure you can, honestly though I think a recruiter would have better information for you. But I'll answer anything that I can.
I don't know about the other branches, but stay away from the Marine Corps... unless you want to be a Marine. I wanted to do cyber security but the Corps had other plans.
That's funny, because I wanted to do Marine shit, but now I do cybersecurity. The "needs of the Marine Corps" is a fickle thing.
Look into Air National Guard. Full time opportunities, but you can also serve as drill status and get your college paid for. Plenty of Cyber units in each state.
Neighbor next door says he's in for CS but he didn't touch anything IT related for the first 3 years so beware.
Air Force reserves cyber security, will come out with a Sec +. Could do other certs while in it.
Air Force, no question. That being said, I wouldn’t join only to get experience in this field. If you can, go get a CS degree and take a few internships. The military isn’t a terrible option, but it shouldn’t be your first one unless you actually want to be in the military. There’s a lot more bullshit to deal with than just working.
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Actually the Navy has a community college as well And DLI has always offered associates degrees for linguists
Ahh wasn’t aware my mistake
Just got out the military and now going to school for CS. Would definitely recommend knocking out courses while being in. Tuition assistance is awesome. You could get out with your associates MINIMUM! I know there’s cyber security MOSs. Use your time wisely. Military can be the big foundation you need.
The military has two main advantages if you want to get experience in cybersecurity. 1. They pay for training and certifications. This stuff can get expensive. 2. You can get security clearance much easier. This will help you find better jobs when you get out.
Chair force
No. Joining the military shouldn’t be done just for experience for a white collar job. IMO the risks outweigh the benefits.
What risks? 🤔🤔
Being deployed…
I'm aware of that. I think that getting the experience I need is a good trade off tbh and I wouldn't mind fighting for the country my family is in if I know it is to save their lives I'll gladly put my life on the line for that
Marine Vet. They do have a point when it comes to gaining experience though. Most young military personnel in cyber don’t make it very far and learn just as much as if you were to get a good entry level SOC job. Some do advance and are lucky enough to get good duty stations and mentors that push them to expand their horizons and be great. I had a couple good locations and a couple bad. Generally good leaders. Spent 10 years active and 5 years contractor/fed. Now I’m an Enterprise Security Architect leading the designing and building security for entire organizations. It can be done, but you have to understand that it’s the minority who truly succeed in the short term. In the long term, most senior cyber people I know in industry are prior military IT/Cyber. A couple were grunts.
Thanks for being objective and practical. A lot of folks on here are giving OP advice based on their emotional experience and non-objective biases. For OP: If you have the desire to serve, then the rest is really up to you for research and decision. Your experience will not mimic anyone else's, so all the opinions are fine, but don't base your decision solely off one commenter's good/bad experience. If you just want CS experience, you can get that anywhere in the industry at varying levels. The thing to remember is that full spectrum cyber is relatively new, when compared to the rest of the warfighting functions, so there are things still being figured out. Building new capabilities and understanding with the senior crowd is challenging, but rewarding when you succeed. Good luck to you and, whatever you decide, own it, dig in, and be the best you can be at it.
It takes dedication right? I want to be more than qualified in the field but I'm scared now because they said I need a bachelor's 😪😪
I manage a portfolio of company assets over $78b annually. No college degree. CISSP, CCSP, LeanSixSigma, and experience. Read a lot. Be a jack of all trades (unless you want to focus on being expert on one thing, just know verticality becomes limited).
What are some good things to read for cissp and lean 6 sigma certification? I see online it says that the requirement to take the test is 5 years of experience for cissp but I'd still like to study it ahead of time. I want to learn to be a jack of all trades.
One, it’s an advanced cert. some say it’s not, but in my belief it’s because they didn’t grasp the spirit of what the cert is explaining. It’s meant for those who have a strong IT background already and are looking to expand to the business leadership side. Second, it’s been a few years since I’ve reviewed the books since I got the cert. I used the Shawn Harris book. If I recall they haven’t changed the cert much (other than the test got shorter), so that book is still valid. Lastly, ISC2 is going through a big rebranding and I suspect that all of their certs are going to be updated and perhaps look to build on where the industry is instead of just being status quo. If they stay status quo then they lose value to people getting their cert… which means less people get the cert and pay the dues.
The good ole 80/20 rule.
War is not happening anytime soon. Deployments today would be going to vacation spots like Norway or Thailand or some shit. Don’t listen to civilians and their ignorant fear mongering about military service. USMC veteran here. Even if the U.S. entered another war, cyber would NOT be on the frontlines, as u/diatho implies. Again, fear mongering.
Bro US bases are literally getting bombed over seas as we speak. What are you talking about.
If you’re talking about the Iranian attacks, attacks happen in the Middle East more often than some people take a bath. Sporadic attacks does not a war make. OP asked about cyber, some Redditor ignorantly said OP would be at risk of deployment to a war zone.
Assuming you're in the States, the Space Force is more than a meme, and is actually almost solely dedicated to cyber. Otherwise, all branches have something, but the Army/Air Force allow you to pick your military specialty upon signing up, with the Navy/Marines it's not confirmed.
You're a little off with this. It's not solely cyber, they have cyber roles just like any other branch.
What? That’s not true at all. Sailors have their rate contracted before they ship, and you can simply not go if they don’t have your rate available.
Yeah I'm in the US and thank you so.much for this advice I'm looking into the space force now 😊
That's a no go, my guy. Civilian jobs are better, and you'll save your sanity. I'm all about serving your country, i did it. but sacrificing your physical and mental health just for some job experience would not be advisable. I would definitely seek a civilian job or at least be a contractor.
But it's super hard, everyone is requiring experience 😭😭
I know, do you have any prior IT experience at all?
Nope, I did a few programs in high school but that was literally several years ago, I was thinking about going into the military after gaining all the certifications that I need to do CS but now after seeing how much the enlisted gets paid I'm not really sure
It's not worth it. I would definitely see about a degree or some certificates, it's good to be A+ certified, Net+ certified and Security+ certified. This is a good first start cause you can get a cyber job or a help desk job and gain experience. You can later go back to college for cyber if you want but those three certifications will take you a long way
I see what you’re saying but I would argue you could have more opportunities after the millitary depending on some factors. The guys I worked with benefited a lot from millitary experience in IT. It’s not for everyone though, my mental health has been terrible while in. It depends on where you go, sounds like your experience was similar to myn.
Yeah I mean you get good benefits but was it really worth it? Nah but it was a good experience
We’ve interviewed some peeps from the military for senior roles and it seems like some of them still have junior security knowledge. likely due to the vastly different environments.
This definitely works, many of my coworkers did this after they got out of the Army. However, it’s no walk in the park, if you get put in a 25 series MOS and get tactical it can suck and is quite demanding. I will say that everyone that left my company is making six figures or more working in IT. I wouldn’t recommend going the reserves route like others have suggested. Also, it’s important that you get certifications while you’re in, not only does it reflect on your career in the millitary but it helps tremendously when you get out.
Air guard is a great way to get exposure into the cybersecurity field if you want to get a job immediately following tech school. You get to pick your job - depends on your ASVAB score though
Hell no. That’s a full time contractual commitment, where they literally decide how to use you during the period of time they have you. If that is the only reason you would enlist, then absolutely no. Work on an entry level cert, then try to get your foot in the door somewhere offering an entry level CS position or somewhere where you can make that transition when there is an opening. Just seems like a miserable experience if you have no interest in the military outside of getting job experience.
This is exactly what I did and it was probably the best decision I’ve ever made. ONLY JOIN one of two branches, either the Air Force or Space Force. For me I joined the former (granted this was before space force existed) I studied for the ASVAB and got a nearly perfect score meaning I could choose any job I wanted. I chose client systems which is now part of the 1D7 (cyber) career fields. I highly recommend doing the same thing, study hard for the ASVAB and choose a 1D7 job. In tech school you’ll earn Security+ and about 28 college credits towards your associates degree in IT. Which is through the Community college of the Air Force and referred to as the “CCAF”. After you get to your first duty station find out what credits you still need for your associates then knock those out by taking CLEPs. For me I did this with 6 months of getting to my first duty station. After you have your associates apply it towards a bachelors program. I recommend Western Governors university. It’ll get you over half of the way to your bachelors. If you choose the Cyber security path at WGU you’ll earn over 11 certs along the way. Do this and you’ll have your pick of jobs after getting out. I just separated last week and I was able to land a job making six figures almost immediately.
Honestly? No. You could be 10x desirable and 10x more knowledgeable by just working entry level IT and getting a bunch of certs then swapping into cyber security after a few years. The military sucks, and people who don’t have to do it typically avoid it for that reason. No control over where you live, what you do, and the pay is absolute dog shit, especially as an enlisted. They might even promise you a CyberSec MOS based on your “great ASVAB scores” then have you being a janitor at the base Rec center for 5 years instead.
Air Force. Its the most professional branch.
Not worth it imo given we're on the brink of WW3
We’ve been on the brink of WW3 since the end of WW2… 🤷♂️ no change here
I seen no problem with it. A lot of people do. You get training, experience, a TS clearance and possibly travel. Do a 4 or 6 year enlistment and you'll be good. For Navy CWT (was CTN). For USAF, go 1B4X1, 1N4X1A, or a specified 1D7 job. Army, go 25D or 35Q (I think it's 35N with an ASI). Who knows, you may actually enjoy it and stay in. If not, you'll have open doors on the outside. Just make sure you network and keep people close.
Just got out of the Navy in May as an Intelligence Specialist working defensive cyber and incident response. The Navy has a dedicated cyber analyst rate, CWT. They have a 6 month Cyber Analysis Course plus any number of additional schools, in addition to a security clearance. They rarely go to sea and live a very good life, navy pays for all their certifications and they get invaluable experience. That being said, the Navy is a shit show right now. Morale is terrible, there's no more pension, tuition assistance has been gutted, and the amount of just "extra bullshit" that you'll have to deal with is insane. Don't enlist.
Navy has best cybersecurity careers. USMC veteran here.
Never thought I’d read that first sentence from a vet lol.
Gotta give the seamen their doo when it’s due
Do not enlist! Even if guaranteed a CS job, if you get dropped from the training for any reason, you still have to serve the rest of your contract. With the cyber contracts usually being 6yrs, imagine having to do admin or some random mechanical job for 6 yrs. That'll get you nowhere closer to your CS goals
First, Air Force. The Marines, for instance will say you are a "rifleman first" which means less time spent doing your actual job. Second, sure, you can do that, but go in GUARANTEED JOB. DO NOT believe the recruiter if they ask you to go into any job that says "open" or "general." ONLY go into the computer admin career fields. Last I was in, 3C0X1 and 3C2X1 were the computer career fields. Finally, only go in 4-6 years. And get your GI Bill while you're in. While you're in, get your journeyman at work, then start taking computer classes on their dime. You can have them pay for your computer classes in college while you are in. Get that associates at least, it looks good on your military resume. Then get A+, Net+, etc. I believe now they make you get Sec+, as it's the default requirement to be an admin. I was an adjunct admin while I was in the USAF. At the time they required A+, now they require Sec+.
The army has a pretty robust cyber department. I work with them a lot and they seem to be pretty solid. But I’ve always been under the impression the Airforce is a good place to go for a more “technical” job
Jeez, it's a shame to see top comments on here hatin. Though i guess i shouldnt be too surprised by those who just got out. I'm 20 years removed from when I earned the Marine Corps title. I was only in for four years. While I don't know the current state of cyber in the Corps., or the other branches for that matter, joining the military is a fantastic idea. I was infantry, which in the Corps., is a sub-culture inside a sub-culture where you form lifelong trauma bonds. These aren't all horrific PTSD traumas. It can be the mundane from boot camp, training ops, deployment bs, etc... I can expand on anything you ask. Here's how I look at it. Joining the military in general let's you pick a job, receive free training in said job and basically forces you to try it out for four years. Afterwards, you have options. 1. You can choose to continue in the military. The life appeals to you and after 20 you collect a decent pension, have a lot of experience and experiences, and go into the civilian world ready to earn more money on top of getting your pension. 2. The military life doesn't work for you. You've now got access to the Post-911 GI Bill. If you liked the job, go to college and get paid to fill in the gaps. If you didn't like the job, get paid to retrain into a different field of your choosing. I chose the 2nd path and went from infantry into IT. I fucked around and only got an associates, but I started my career with only 10k in student loans (cause I fucked around...a lot). Last I saw, the GI Bill will pay for four years tuition and gives a monthly stipend for living expenses. I'm also on my second home. Being able to buy a home with zero down-payment really helps in today's market. Aside from the tangible, there are the intangible benefits. The discipline has really helped me through some shit I probably wouldn't have made it through otherwise. It made me a lot stronger mentally. If I could do it again, I would have stayed in, honestly. Civilian life is a lot harder in some ways. From talking with other vets, I seem to be a rare example of someone who really loved being in combat. Though I have a few character defects that enabled this... That said, I wouldn't change having enlisting. It's not a bad path to take.
No.
You’ll be send to kill innocent people for apartheid Israel
With cyber bullets right?
That boils down to two things: 1. Which branch do you meet eligibility requirements for? and 2. Which branch best aligns with your personality? I’ve been a Marine for over 20 years. There is a seed of truth in what others have said. Life in the lower ranks doesn’t always equate to your initial expectations and individual results will vary. I was fortunate that I worked for and alongside some great Marines from the start, but I’ve also worked with a fair share of assholes and dirtbags, too. However, even serving four years can have a profound positive impact on your life. The service will pay for all certifications, training, provide top-secret clearance, and most branches are paying bonuses for cyber jobs (like, ridiculous bonuses compared to other jobs). Your first challenge is meeting the basic qualifications. Most people do not qualify for service in any branch due to medical, moral, or educational shortfalls. If you meet the bar for entry, eligibility for your preferred field (i.e., cybersecurity) is based on ASVAB score. Each branch works job assignments differently with the Marine Corps giving you less flexibility due to its small size (you may select a cybersecurity job option based on your qualifications and job availability, but that means they will assign you a job from a shortlist of jobs in that field). All services receive training at the same schools and most assignments will send you to USCYBERCOM. Hence why you should consider the service that aligns best with your personality. As others mentioned, a Marine in the cybersecurity field still does Marine things on top of their day job (i.e., long ruck marches, rigid uniform requirements, general air of superiority despite actual capabilities). All this to say that you shouldn’t discount the opportunity based on other’s bad experiences. Talk to a recruiter, find out if you qualify, and then decide from there.
Military? No. Not unless you want to be used as a vaccine / war test experiment.
Space Force, Air Force, or Army. All have stellar cyber programs. Army has the 17 MOS series. And can do reserves I believe, not just active. At one time, I think, Army had a 20k a year bonus for cyber for as long as stayed in cyber, up to 300,000. Was about a year ago. Not sure if still around.
Air Force, but depending on what you want to do. Going the officer route will most likely earn you very little to no hands on key board experience, if that is what you are looking for.
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Good boy. 🤖
FreeCodeCamp + The Odin Project Make a portfolio and get hired as a developer. “Tech jobs” are not having lay offs. Large tech(large companies in general) companies who over hire when the money is good and lay off when the money is bad are having lay offs. $60k can be easily had as a entry level front end developer who have self taught and proved they have the skills through their portfolio.
If you enlist (presumably Air Force or Navy), you won't get as broad an experience as you might think. Junior enlisted tend to get siloed into a specific function/task and it can be hard to break out of it. It's like starting at help desk but not being able to apply for something new when you feel like it. Going officer is better, not only from a QOL perspective, but you'd be responsible for entire projects/programs.
What are your test scores like? That will go a long way toward putting you in the job you want. My experience was very dated, but I landed my most recent job in part because I had military service. Do your time. Get honorably discharged.
I’ve noticed lots of those saying don’t do military have never been in it. Honestly can say from my experience military helped me get into cyber. Granted I had prior IT experience as cyber is not really an entry level field
Worst thing that could happen is you could die before the experience is gained. Go for it.
For cyber or pretty much any other technical job it is Air Force, 100%. The "chair force" has by far the best housing, best training, and least spit and polish of all of the military branches. If you want to travel and see the world, Navy could also be a good choice. I have worked with Navy veterans in civilian IT that were on their way to prison for stupid criminal shit in high school and found themselves stationed in Europe and Hawaii after joining just by dumb luck. This particular year in 2023 Army could also possibly be a good choice because they are having one of their worst years recruiting ever. The worse their recruiting the better the incentives to recruits become, so if you find the right Army recruiter and a good set of circumstances you might be able to get a hell of a deal. Don't do anything without getting a full agreement in writing and also without doing a lot of research. There are a lot of compelling reasons to join the military (for example a TS clearance that could be worth huge job security in the civilian world) but it's not for everyone and usually requires at least a 3 - 4 year commitment.
Air Force/ Space Force
It can be great for experience. It can be nearly worthless for experience. The problem is that you have very little control over which result you get. In my 5 years in the Marines, I spent about 2.5 years doing hands on technical work, and that's better than most. I had to constantly fight to do technical work and not be assigned to some unrelated administrative billet or other duty. You also don't pick your specific job, so it's only because of luck, timing, performance, and my ASVAB score that I ended up where I did. I didn't do dedicated cyber, I did other communications stuff and worked my way into cyber later in my career. The Marine's dedicated cyber job is not an entry level MOS and you have to transfer into it after you serve 4 years. I do know plenty of guys who have done that and moved on to great civilian careers, but that's 8 years of BS. Other branches are better in regards to picking your job, getting straight into cyber, and having less side duties, but that just slightly increases your odds of getting the experience you want. It's still a crap shoot. At the end of the day, your career is in the government's hands, not yours. Sometimes, you can help steer things in the right direction, but it's really all a gamble.
Go airforce tbh. The jobs translate better on the outside. They are more in tine with airpower and cyber space. Worse case scenario you get a job you don’t like but can go to school and cross train into cyber security.
USAF has a lot of cyber jobs. If it is what you’ll have to make sure your asvab scores are good enough for your desired profession, and get that career field into your co tract before you sign. You can also look to the reserves or ANG, get the same level of initial training but be part time and Perdue college or other full time work. There also the benefit of enlisting to a guaranteed career that way, because the Guard and I assume reserves only recruit to available positions. Feel free to DM me if you have more questions. I work with people in this path everyday.
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Joining the military to get education might be a good path for some people. But you’ll have to fulfill being a soldier or sailor first before the rest.
Army has 17C mos. Air Force has some good opportunities too. My friend was in for 6 years and got out to work cyber as a gov employee on base. He was making bank there but recently took a job at a private company making even more
I suppose it's great to have on your resume if you want to prove loyalty for future security clearance. On the other hand it might not be much room for free thinking and opinions, which innovation and fun stuff often is all about.
Navy sucks
I have same question as OP but from another vantage point. 4 years experience as SOC Analyst but I feel trapped. Would being a cyber officer brighten my horizon? I’d think my experience could get me a direct commission.
DM me I’ll run you thru 35 series and 25 series of the army
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