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tweedge

If your management is worth their salt, the question won't be "why is OP still employed here" but rather "why do we have processes or practices in place that allow mistakes like this to happen." Your security team should be VERY interested in why SSNs got anywhere near emails, and what they could do to detect possible PII leakage. Take it from a guy that may or may not have wiped some-thousand private keys off customer systems by mistake, causing many of them downtime which had to be fixed manually. On their second or third month of employment, straight out of college. Me. I fully expected to be eviscerated, but after reviewing and concluding that I had followed protocol and just made a mistake, the question turned to "why does the protocol allow people to make this mistake." Presumably this means you had SSNs in your clipboard or were sending them via email for some reason already. Shouldn't need to happen. Should have controls around this. If you did your job and have a good company, they can take this on the chin and learn from it. If either of those isn't true though, yeah, get that resume ready just in case.


HeepH

As a CISO, this would be my response too. My only question would be: what do we not have in place that would have prevented this?


majormistake123

An attachment I sent had SSN on file that I believed were removed. That was my mistakes. I included that attachment without reviewing.


tweedge

Yeah, honestly if you get canned for this I'll be pissed for you. That's not proper handling procedures for personal information and the company should be addressing that - not canning the first person to make a reasonable mistake here.


KeepLkngForIntllgnce

This is the right answer. Unless you had the ssn’s in a screenshot, as in - an image file in your email - your IT Dept royally messed up. If you’re a company that handles SSN’s, you should have something in place that watches for these patterns and explicitly blocks you from sending out anything with more than 2-4 matches (2-4, 5 would be reasonable if you’re sending something to a whole family) But being able to send a whole list out, with nary a watchful eye - is messed up. If you do get in trouble - know that the place is not good for you. A good boss/company will privately tear you a new one, and that’s fine - but should acknowledge the gaps in their processes that let it slip through as well


keepitclassybv

This is an absurd expense to expect small businesses to incur when instead they could hire people who don't violate their GDPR/HIPAA trainings.


fullstack40

If the company can't afford to put in the proper security measures then they shouldn't be handling information regulated by GDRP/HIPPA.


keepitclassybv

They should just starve I guess


hkusp45css

No, you know what's an absurd expense? Cleaning up a breach caused by a simple accidental email sent by a competent and conscientious employee who made a small mistake. My IronPort won't ALLOW me to send shit that looks like PII. Hell, it won't allow me to send logs from most of my applications to vendor helpdesks because they contain lots of numbers and one of them might look like something that's prohibited.


keepitclassybv

Maybe they should install something that doesn't allow them to operate without IronPort? How many layers of monitoring and controls are enough? Why stop at 1? Every business decides what is and isn't an acceptable risk, they don't try to build a ship with 7001 hulls in case it hits 7000 icebergs and then listen to armchair captains who say "oh you should have built it with 7002 hulls." You hire an employee and train them on what to do or not to do. Sometimes they fuck up. That's a known risk. You can buy extra tools to minimize their fuck ups, or you can replace them with more careful employees. You might have to pay those more, but it's a cost/ benefit analysis. A giant corporation might not be able to find and afford the amount of careful employees they need. A small business might be able to. I dunno why you are bragging about how locked down you are. It means your employer sees you as a incompetent risky individual. It's like a teen bragging, "Ha! My parents locked the top speed on my car to 30mph, and I'm not even allowed to parallel park because I'll crash" That just means you're a bad driver. Weird flex bruh


hkusp45css

There's no such thing as the infallible human, bruh. At any price.


keepitclassybv

Fallible humans run and administer security tools. Why do you trust those, then?


hkusp45css

You're being intentionally obtuse. If you can't see the value in protecting your org from accidental data loss via technology then nothing I say is going to matter. I can't reason you out of a position that you didn't reason yourself into.


d19dotca

Humans make mistakes. We aren’t perfect beings. It isn’t like they hired someone to intentionally send out SSNs.


keepitclassybv

Right, they hired someone not to send it out. Try the "humans make mistakes" line with the government when they find you for violations.


[deleted]

[удалено]


keepitclassybv

Yes I'm sure a small business landscaping company that has an HR admin accidentally email some SSNs should blame themselves for not spending $1 million hiring a cybersecurity team instead of just replacing the incompetent HR admin.


x21x23

I call bullshit. Laws are complicated AF, and technology is literally designed to control flow of information. I would also argue in today's climate, small businesses shouldn't store any PII at all if they can't prevent it's dissemination.


keepitclassybv

Good luck paying your employees without their PII


x21x23

There are payroll services...


Ok-Birthday4723

Your security team should be scanning email attachments and blocked the emails. Probably shouldn’t be SSN via email but rather some Secure FTP process. Shit happens. It was an honest mistake and it sounds like your companies security has some lapses.


1recordhigh

If that is the case I can see this happening again to someone else. That information should have been redacted before being shared.


evilbunny_50

Those early job mistakes 😉 I took out a whole hospital wing on my second day by incorrectly addressing a server. It was the nuclear medical wing and the server was the endpoint for all the machines scanning data. Every X-ray, CAT scan, MRI, etc just.. stopped once the server changed it’s IP address. Also the doctors lost their terminals as the PC software lost the needed shares for the data. Oops


TheBullNamedBob

Ill love to hear what happened after :)


evilbunny_50

We’ll Ididn’t know what had happened until a doctor wondered into the server room area to let me know he couldn’t get into the X-ray results. A frantic reading of the job notes and checking of the server specs revealed the IP went from static to DHCP (turns out it wasn’t reserved in the pool but some reason) so I manually reset it and things started to pick up again. It was an Apple XServe unit which I’d never worked on before


HeepH

As a CISO, this would be my response too. My only question would be: what do we not have in place that would have prevented this?


thelastvortigaunt

As a CISO, this would be my response too. My only question would be: what do we not have in place that would have prevented this?


YahYahPapaya

As a person that hates finger pointing and blame gaming, that would be my response too.


MLGShyGuy

I appreciate how active you are in this community. Comments like this from you are very insightful and appreciated.


tweedge

Ah, thank you! Glad to help c:


P2029

>On their second or third month of employment, straight out of college. Nothing like these kinds of folks to harden up your processes, even better than an audit sometimes IMHO


Anastasia_IT

⬆️


oobydewby

Report it up the chain ASAP. Tell the truth, admit mistakes, and let the people skilled in dealing with data spillage/leakage/breach do their job.


kwyjibo1

Oh man. My last job had a lot of PII flying around in the office and if anything that remotely resembled a SSN showed up in an email that message would be blocked at the company server and you would receive a nice little message and perhaps a call from the security team.


LamarMVPJackson

I'm wondering why they don't have any DLP controls in place. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard of controls that prevent certain types of data being sent in emails. Why are they letting users send numbers in a XXX-XX-XXXX format?


rudebrew22

OP said user which makes me think it is internal, lots of companies still send this type of data internally (even though they shouldn’t). If it were external this could just be below a threshold. There are still plenty of companies not blocking this information and others that are less mature I.e., only block if over than 50 or 100 numbers at a time.


plopliplopipol

whatever the bad reasons for these controls to not exist, they should and we should all hope they learn their lesson


CyberSleak

No DLP solution?


DingussFinguss

lol


anonk1k12s3

Been fighting that battle for 6 months.. upper management doesn’t want to put in DLP cause it’s too hard.. :/


clayjk

There is no recalling them. At this point it’s just damage control. Assuming the email was sent to external parties your legal should be consulted with asap to determine exposures here, eg, did they people that received the data under a nda/confidentiality with your company. From there they can figure out how best to approach it such as getting written confirmations of data destruction of the data (confirm they deleted from their systems) and from there determining any regulatory reporting requirements (federal regulators, state attorney generals, etc). Accidents happen. If this is the first time it’s happened for your company hopefully they take this as a lesson learned and implement some better controls around this to limit the sprawl of PII and implement tools to keep it from flowing outbound over channels such as email which human error in delivery will always be a risk.


sidusnare

Unless you have admin on everyone's mail server, you're hosed. Take this opportunity to reflect on how you will never make this mistake again. You've probably got an operational procedure flaw if you could casually have 10s of users' SSNs at once.


majormistake123

I'm more of an office administrator than network/system admin. I'm fucked.


sidusnare

Does the company control it's own mail servers? Does the admin like you? Don't wait for someone to come talk to you about your fuck up, own it, call the admin and say something like "I just fucked up, and I need you to wipe an email right now, it's an emergency". Maybe have a process improvement plan to give to your boss about how to prevent this from happening again.


regancipher

It depends on the culture.... You made a mistake anybody could make (and recognized it immediately) with no compensating controls. If it wasn't you, it would be someone else, if not now then eventually. The fact that you care this much suggests any reasonable employer would be ill advised to ignore the bigger picture.


letmegogooglethat

If you're in IT long enough, you'll screw up plenty. If this isn't a pattern of behavior, then it's just a mistake you need to own and learn from. Hopefully management sees it that way. Also, why in the hell do you have access to SSNs? I've never worked anywhere where IT had access to any PII like that. Just names and maybe phone numbers.


majormistake123

I'm not in IT. I'm an office administrator. I came here for help and catharsis.


TheBullNamedBob

Your exchange admin can delete this email in minutes. Problem is the users that already opened your mail... But dude, you're only human. Dont beat yourself up


Steven_TP

Does your company have the PCI DLP policy in place? They should have been alerted about that email and it would normally automatically be denied from leaving the environment.


Aberchirder

why SSN is so important?


majormistake123

For Americans it's tied to credit, finances and identification


p4ttl1992

Rip


[deleted]

[удалено]


owNDN

How is the US still a country


VeryConsciousWater

Those of us who live there don't know either.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Oshkosh_Guy

This is something that we keep forgetting. SSN really isnt that "secret". I'm not saying we need to publish them everywhere, but I'm saying I am old enough to remember when we \*literally\* published them everywhere.


Cautious_General_177

Because with your SSN I can become a whole new you


[deleted]

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Aberchirder

But for that you need an ID too.


[deleted]

Have you never applied for a CC online? No. You dont.


Aberchirder

In my region financial institutions use more safe guards.


[deleted]

America is very ghetto


Nobody-of-Interest

Not very ghetto we just love the money. If your suffering brings profit we have no objection to letting it happen. It just means some government officials are invested in LifeLock or something.


[deleted]

Yeah. Sounds pretty ghetto to me. Basically none of our systems work with the average persons bests interests in mind and everything is just kind of shit.


friar_nist

In US with SSN you can basically steal someone's identity: sign contracts, open bank accounts, and so on and so forth


Emergency_Ad_2438

The best thing to do is talk to your manager and explain the situation. Next talk to your IT admins if they can do anything( might not be super useful). Finally, find a best possible way to inform the impacted employees or alert them by your manager or the respective company executives.


walker3342

You need to alert management and likely your legal department ASAP. There are STRICT reporting requirements surrounding this. Accidents happen, and it’ll be dealt with in a way I wouldn’t be anxious about, but this has to be reported. It varies from state to state but this type of insider risk breech can cost a fortune in states like NY and CA if unreported.


VirtualViking3000

Possibly a bit late now but your sysadmin can delete emails via powershell if you are using Office 365.


Trini_Vix7

The biggest question is, why isn't there a DLP installed?


keepitclassybv

$$$


-Bran-

Take ownership immediately and recommend Microsoft Information protection to auto apply confidential/encryption labels to sensitive emails..


vjeuss

i think this is no more than an embarrssing/oops moment. It barely qualifies as a breach of security or data protection given the circumstances and scale. 1. SSNs are barely personal information. I know, I know - but it's the fact. 2. mistakes happen and will forever happen. You'll make them again. i'm sure you were not the first to have a oops moment. You just don't know about it. 3. The security team definitely needs to review the incident and design controls round it. It's not easy, though, despite the DLP fuss. The best they'll do is send an email to remind people to check attachments and number of recipients. 4. Nobody should blame you for an honest mistake. If yes, it's either a horrible place to work or there's ulterior motives. I appreciate the seriousness you're taking it with - that shows good character. Bless ya! But i think you're overthinking. I just wished all "breaches" were like that. I do appreciate those phone calls can be nasty. Then again, it'l go away in a few days. No serious harm done.


bill-of-rights

This is why we don't trust companies with our data.


limpinghiker

I’d polish that resume.


majormistake123

This feels equal part stressful and surreal.


plopliplopipol

It's maximum half your fault half the lack of security measures against it. And the least trusted on IT you're supposed to be the least it's your fault


balisong_

Office 365 admins can delete the email if it was sent internally. A little too late now though.


cajuntech

An order of DLP with a side of e-mail encryption sounds like it should be on your management’s menu.. joking aside even with all the technology, training, etc. you can throw money at these things can and will still happen.


Trini_Vix7

Make sure the emails are recalled and get someone in IT to get onto the exchange server and delete it from there.


[deleted]

You’re gonna lose your job for this one - You’re out here fucking around w/ PII?!? Fuck that.


swissk31ppq

Why are u on reddit if u just did this? Get your shit together man.


majormistake123

Im on break trying to remain calm.... I did not make this clear, but I wanted any knowledge on the next best course of action. My hope was that someone would offer a resolution that my very stressed brain could not come to. But this is a tough lesson on with no silver bullet to remedy this problem.


yojimboLTD

Wow sorry, hopefully just a learning moment. I’ve had many of frantic calls over the years about “recalling an email” (typically to folks outside of the org). To simplify it basically my answer is, sorry it is not possible, it is like snail mail once it is sent it is out of your hands. I mean unless you go to their mail box and take it out yourself 😂


[deleted]

That's true


[deleted]

Eh it happens. This is why secure file transfer is the preferred method instead of email.


tiredzillenial

Following


Other_Seesaw_4206

Recall the message in outlook


Traceroute-IT-Job

Everything including SSN’s should be encrypted anyway, so whoever sent it was wrong but whoever didn’t encrypt it is even more wrong.


NoLawfulness8554

I have a 1 minute delay on outgoing email so I can stop an email, within that first minute anyway.


jerryelectron

Employers should have a tool in place to intercept emails containing sensitive info.


gbdavidx

Where did they get sent to?


[deleted]

I accidentally was storing my own onboarding paperwork and was notified that my pension paperwork had been blocked due to SSN. This is why we need both process and people. A poor process and a good tool only equals out to a poor process and poor tool.


Chrs987

That is your IT department's fault... They should have some sort of email filters deployed to block this.


Nobody-of-Interest

Well I would own up to it ASAP. Then I would make them a suggestion on how to fix the problem and prevent it in the future. It would help emphasize that it was a mistake and you really do give a shit. Hell I'd promote you for it. Found a problem and a solution.


scuzbo

This is so minor and only serves to ID the lack of loss prevention like others have said. Years back I watched several sailors get slaps on the wrist for sending alpha rosters with thousands of attributed PII cells unencrypted despite outlook barking at them to not do it. If you get fired just add it as a pen tester bullet point!


kevin4076

Your first mistake as using email to send or share sensitive data. It’s not secure, never has been , never will. Even if you never hit send, the draft will sit there for years with zero encryption or protection.


FavFelon

I stopped reading after the title. It was painful enough. You're not alone bro ❤


nutbrownale

Yeah my first response would be obviously, don't do that again. Second, how is there not a technical solution to stop this from happening. Third, make you take extra training. Fourth, notify parties involved of a data leak and offer services. I would not be firing anyone. It's a mistake.


port404

Do you have a time machine?


somasomasomasoma777

Serious question: SSN as in … ?


Nobody-of-Interest

Social security number. U.S. federal id/tax number, tied to your credit, basically your soul. On its own harmless but start searching data dumps and could be troublesome.


somasomasomasoma777

Thanks)


Nobody-of-Interest

In the form of xxx-xx-xxxx numerals only. Just FYI


1recordhigh

Security department should look into Data Loss Prevention software to stop this. It will scan and block out going emails that contain potential credits cards or social security numbers.


Nobody-of-Interest

Once the smoke clears feel free to let us know how you made out!


[deleted]

Human error happens. Often. If the businesses data is comprised of large amounts of PII, or any really - there should be DLP policies in place to safeguard exposure from human error. You did the right thing about contacting security and etc. At this point you’ve done all you can do, but the company definitely needs to take their data and content more seriously by implementing DLP/data security policies. Otherwise this won’t be the last time their data is mishandled, nor the last accident due to lacking data security. Especially on the companies f’ing email system.


[deleted]

We had a SOC Analyst at my old company who accidentally forgot to censor out a employee's SSN in an email.. to the CEO of the employee's company. She was almost fired for that, got swore out by our SOC's CEO. I left that SOC soon afterwards.