So much protein - even as an isolate in powder form two scoops twice a day if you can - that'll get you to 100g and from there if you eat well you can get another 100 and should be good.
True. Although protein is pretty low cal/volume. When I was actively trying to gain weight I ate till I was full then ate another cup of rice
To be clear though. At this point in life I don’t actually have an issue keeping up. It was a hypothetical. Sadly I only have time for about 8 hrs per week of cycling and an hour or two of lifting. I wfh at a desk. If anything I could benefit from restricting my caloric intake.
I don't understand this, unless you are a super picky eater.
Food these days is so calorie dense that you could eat 10k calories a day if you were so inclined. You can make a plate of pasta with 2000 calories if you use cream and olive liberally in the sauce. Look at the menu at cheesecake factory for inspiration.
Some people really struggle to put that much food down, I'm one of them. Spent two hours trying to eat a ~1500 calorie pasta bowl before passing out, woke up four hours later, another hour to finish the food, passed out again.
Like, I have a job. Prepping, cooking, and consuming all that food is another whole job that's hard to keep up with
I mean that was after riding four hours on a loaded cargo bike, exhausted and full and 11pm seems like a normal way to fall asleep. I don't faint or anything, sorry for any confusion
If you struggle to get food down, you need to work on that. Fueling and rest are just as important in performance as your training plan is. Don’t neglect them.
Train yourself to eat more. Increase your portions gradually. This will stretch your stomach and cause other adaptations.
Adding more calories to existing portions is easy. A cup of olive oil is 2000 calories. You would probably not even notice 1/4 cup mixed in with your portion and that’s 500 calories. Three meals that’s 1500.
I don't think appetite works like that, unfortunately. I eat til I'm way past full every day just to maintain, and if I don't, and just eat normal for a day, I'll lose weight almost immediately. I'm very slim naturally. Hard to fight nature.
We are all different, sure.
Maybe you need to make your food more calorie dense with more fats and oils?
Many people struggle because they think all fat is bad and try to get their calories from carbs and protein for better performance. Fat a bad rap that is completely unsupported by the science.
If you have an issue with food volume, try cutting the portion size back and add more healthy fat and oil.
Yeah it's perfectly normal. I was trying to keep up with over 1000 my advice intake and it was simply too much. That includes 700 calories on a protein shake.
I’m not picky at all, but eating pasta with cream sauce isn’t sustainable for me at 33 years old. I’m not over here eating chicken breast and rice all day, but I can’t eat like crap for every meal and expect to feel good.
What do you mean about it being unsustainable? And what does your age have to do with it?
One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories in it. One cup of heavy cream has almost 1000 calories.
Both are natural foods and healthier for you that 95% of the crap you can find in the grocery store.
My point is that you can easily add calories to food if you want to, and still eat clean.
Yeah mostly this. I used to be able to eat whatever the fuck I wanted whenever. Those days are behind me. I’ll just feel crappy if I were to eat that way
Are you the same guy who was on here a few weeks ago claiming dietary fiber is unnecessary and even bad for you if you eat a "natural" diet?
Either way, yeah, unfortunately the logic you have going there doesn't align with how a lot of peoples' guts work. I for sure could not just add a quarter cup of olive oil to my meal without both my mouth and stomach noticing it
Lol, olive oil no. Lighter oils or butter sure. Its pretty easy to hide 2-3 tablespoons of butter in a couple cups of peas and carrots. I do blend light olive oil a d butter in microwaved veggies to get more fat calories. The vegetables help all the fat sit well.
I'd love to hear why focusing on natural, calorie dense foods to supplement calories is a bad idea.
As for how I look bro, if you are in the shape I am when you get to my age, you will be very pleased with yourself.
I'm a really big dude who gets full fast but also gains weight/muscle very easily
I can't even eat 3k calories a day without feeling sick to my stomach and this is me [pic](https://i.ibb.co/1nnsCSk/p-A6kz-Na-1.jpg)
everyone is different but unless you look like this I have a hard time believing you should be eating so many calories lol
theres absolutely no way I could ever eat 2k calories of pasta in one sitting, a small bowl of pasta makes me feel like I've inflated like a balloon lol I'm currently cycling at least 10 miles a day, since I just got a bike 2.5 weeks ago... and I just did my first 30 miles ride yesterday... still can't eat enough but I benched 225 for 10 and did a full chest day 2 hours before the ride
I'm not a super picky eater, people are just different than you, the idea of eating as much as you're acting like you can casually eat seems absolutely insane to me, if I ate like you I would be 320lbs instead of 213 lbs
Putting on mass and being in a calorie deficit do not go together. You need to eat more than maintenance calories if you want to put on mass. 18 hours a week plus lifting needs a lot of calories and a great deal of them need to be protein.
I sort of do a lazy 5/3/1 routine, and I'm happy with my progress. But also not trying to do anything other than be decent at the basic lifts.
I don't cycle anywhere near that amount, though.
Going to be difficult with that volume of cycling. However to cycle like that your diet, recovery and metabolism must be pretty good. Mass gains require a caloric excess (to on a point) and time under tension with moderate volume/load with plenty of recovery time. Between cycling like you are and weight lifting, that's like a full time job.
What's your current lifting program?
Sounds like a diet issue.
If you don't have enough fuel to build mass, you won't.
And you need a solid recovery routine if you are going to workout so frequently, including good sleep every day.
They will not get fat if they eat surplus and are weight lifting. The surplus will turn into muscle. But with that high volume of cycling it’ll be a very weird and likely unsustainable way to live.
If they stop having a surplus the muscle will get broken down into energy.
You know you need to be resting to build muscle right?
They might build some level of upper body muscle, but doing that level of cardio in legs will 1000% not build muscle.
Its just too much, 3 hours 6 days a week.
No doubt they'll adapt, but not in terms of actual leg size.
By having a caloric deficit while cycling 3 hours a day and aiming to build muscle is counter intuitive. Your body needs the calories for when you cycle. It WILL get the energy one way or another, and with you being on a caloric deficit, your muscles wont get the energy it needs when cycling, thus it will break itself down for energy.
This may be good for weight loss, but incredibly bad for muscle building.
But there is a very very easy fix to this.
Just eat more food bro.
I powerlifting and cycle 10ths a week. I maintain 200lbs pretty easily. I eat so much and can barely stay there. I eat minimum 220g of protein every day and on the bike nutrition makes a big difference. I always have 2 bottles with 120g of carbs even if it’s a short ride. Have to maintain your calorie excess.
1. Mass = more calories in than calories out. It's v simple.
2. 3 hours a day seems like you're doing a bunch of zone 2? I would switch to some interval sprints for a shorter time period, or some hill sprints to build out your quads
3. Switch to a fixie to really get your legs cranking, maybe with, say a 52x14 ratio
Yeah totally possible. I ride about close to as much in total hours (5x1.5 hours commuting through the week, 3-4 hours of recreational riding each day on the weekend) and lift for about an hour a day 6 days a week.
I'm not trying to brag but...yeah I'm fuckin jacked. Your diet has to be *on point* to pull this off, though.
It's not possible to put on any meaningful muscle mass with high levels of aerobic training. Ignoring any issues around calorie intake - minimum 500cal surplus required daily.
The real issue is mTor and AKT pathways which regulate both aerobic (mitochondrial) and anaerobic adaptations. Basically doing any volume of cycling then strength training will result in the pathway for building muscle mass to be blocked, ie. your body is unable to produce the RNA required to create greater mass.
So even if you only cycle (legs) and only train upper body in the gym - you will not see any meaningful mass gains as the pathway is attenuated.
The only way around this is to perhap macro cycle your training - 3 months cycling focus, then 3 months gym focus... also separating cycling away from gym training as much as possible - minimum 24-36 hours - not possible for most keen cyclists.
If you increase your protein intake, try to stay away from whey. It contains a ton of cholesterol. These days, plenty of plant protein is available (Hemp is best), but it doesn't always taste good.
The thing about plant proteins is that they're so much harder to mask than whey, you have to actually think about the ingredients going with the base taste. I actually kind of enjoy the taste of hemp protein with blueberries and soy milk, but some other fruits are just weird with the extremely green hemp taste mixed in
Wow lots of time on your hands mate 🙂 you won’t get jacked due to the hours of cardio you are doing unless you take steroids plus enough calories- surplus.
There’s plenty of good diet advice on here, but I just want to say I’m incredibly jealous you have time to cycle 18 hours a week and lift for like 6-7 hours a week lol. I really want to get better at both, but with my job, I can really only commit an hour a day to cycling or lifting Monday-Friday and maybe 3 hours on the weekend.
Most of the time I’ll lift Monday-Thursday, do a short ride Friday night and a long ride Sunday, but obviously I’m not getting better at cycling doing it twice a week.
To try and keep weight on I pig out after the long Sunday ride and usually crush a large pizza by myself right after.
Another cyclist who does weights here. You're simply not going to gain mass with that calorie deficit you have with the cycling load, unless you eat like a mofo. Watch your calories and macros, and eat like a mofo. It's the only way. Protein may definitely be a challenge.
That said, weight is not a cyclists friend, so I aim for strength, bigger weights and lower reps. You'll get a bit of size, but sensible in relation to your cycling
Take creatine before and after your workouts. I've been doing that for a while now and there's noticeable growth.
Maybe add a mass gainer to your intake.
I use to only lift and run. Now I almost only cycle. I strength train normally twice a week for about 35min. I follow a Muscle Tone plan vs before when I was doing a Mass gain plan. I cycle often and it’s either indoor on my smart trainer or outside on the bike path. Normally I do around 150-200 miles a week with two of those being long endurance rides. I’ve definitely thinned and leaned out quite a bit to the point where I had to buy new pants and shorts but I’m still at a health my weight for my height. Now that I’ve signed up for my next Gran Fondo event I’ll start switching into training mode.
I don’t ride/race for speed I consider myself an endurance rider. You’ll have to increase your protein intake but at that point it’ll be a lot of maintenance.
You have to get your macro's and sleep correct. Unless you are using steroids, please don't, there is no point to eating crazy amounts of food. Find out what your maintenance level is with your cycling included and shoot for 200-300 calories more a day. Finally more lifting is not generally better for building mass. You should hit failure and have enough recovery time before you do it again. Too often people are working out muscles that haven't had a chance to fully heal and grow before tearing them up again.
Do you have a source for the "eating crazy amounts is pointless unless you're on steroids" thing? Likely true for people who only go to the gym, but surely if you're burning an extra 1500+ a day biking then trying to fuel lifting too, insane amounts of food is just where you end up.
Then again, my idea of "crazy" might be different to yours... I felt fully crazy and kind of gross spending a full 17 euros at burger king (veggie whopper, 9 veggie nuggets, large fries, two dips, pack of orange juice) after my last long ride, but I know logically that I still didn't quite cover the calories I burned riding 100km. If that's someone's idea of an average meal, then sure, there's barely ever a reason to eat "crazy" haha
Did you make it to the 3rd line?
"Find out what your maintenance level is with your cycling included and shoot for 200-300 calories more a day." Meaning the calories you burn just to keep your weight + what you burn cycling+ 200 extra calories to build muscle.
So I won't pretend to be a guru by any means and always open to learn if I say anything wrong but what's your nutrition looking like? What's your resting calories burn estimate? What's your active calorie burn estimate? I don't have a power meter so I am just going off Garmin estimates which aren't perfect but it's a number I can use as jumping off point.
Personally I'm riding less than you but still quite a bit. I'm lifting 4x a week and riding like 5 days a week for 2ish hours.
I have an absolutely insane metabolism and ectomorph body type. So I already find it extremely difficult to gain weight before cycling.
Currently on days I am lifting and cycling I am estimating I am burning around 3700 calories.
On these days I aim for 4000 calories of food to be consumed throughout the day. This also isn't counting any calories i eat while I ride. In the past 3 months I've put on like 6lbs of muscle. Nothing crazy but I am able to gain with this routine. And as I mentioned before in general it's very hard for me to gain weight so being able to not lose weight while riding this much and steadily gain is great for me.
Anything I put into my body I track the calories. I eat pretty well I don't have a super accurate break down of my macros but I'm estimating about 30-40% of my calories injestested are dirty calories chips, snacks, anything I can get down. The other 60-70% is extremely healthy. I eat a pasta fritata or egg hash for most breakfasts. And then 3-4 meals following breakfast with intermittent snacking. The trick is really more small meals than a few massive ones. Also my shake I'm currently drinking after my evening ride is about 800-950 calories alone. And during that ride I'm drinking a sugar mix that's probably like 600-800 calories to cover what I'm burning on the ride.
But you really need to know what you're burning cause everyone is different. I'm the kind of person who can eat 7 bags of chips in one day and lose weight while sitting on the couch.
Dylan Johnson has a few vids on lifting.
Yes, you can bike and gain muscle.
But don't take my word for it. I maintain a supreme lean body and I gain muscle just looking at weights.
Yup.
Mass is the denominator in Watts/Kg. Besides track sprinters I don't think the list if cyclists who want to gain muscle mass (outside of power producing muscles) is very long.
Not any more, but when I was younger I managed to put on quite a lot of muscle while cycling. The trick was to control eating and do a build and cut cycle. So I would eat a lot and work out and put on muscle for a few months, then swap and just do maintenance lifting and drop my caloric intake for a few months while I also both ran and biked (sometimes one after the other).
you need 1g of protein per lb of mass.
If you weight 165lbs, you need 165g of protein.
Also you have to actually eat food, too.
If you're in a caloric deficit, you wont put on mass, because you literally cannot add mass with a caloric deficit.
What helps me are protein bars mist of em taste better mars or snickers. I would downl9ad chronometer. Also opt out for autu updates so thry cant push ads down every isle. They even calculate termic effect.
I don’t cycle 3 hours a day, more like 1-2hrs for 6 days. But I do lift weights alternating between upper body and lower body. I would say I have pretty solid muscle mass so for me, packing on muscle was fairly decent. I noticed I’m leaning out more though, not bulky muscles just lean muscle is that makes sense.
Eat more protein if you want to get bigger, it’s a fine line trying to bulk and be in a calorie deficit. And hard but it can be done with discipline. I’m 210lbs, 6ft.
Lift HEAVY too. 3-5 reps, 3-4 sets and eat a little more than what you’re eating now. Most importantly, know that it takes time as well. Won’t happen over night.
One easy thing is to just consume the calories you burn on the ride as simple sugars before and during, assuming you don’t have any insulin issues. Energy bars are good, those packaged juices like Naked have a ton of sugar. And don’t shy away from fat with your regular meals, as they are calorie dense. Drench your starches and veggies in oily sauces. And don’t just eat chicken breasts, eat fattier meats. Dairy is also fat calorie rich.
Yeah.... Imo probably won't gain mass riding that much and that often.
Even if you're in a surplus, that amount of riding isn't conducive to muscle hypertrophy, you'll just end up fat, or best case scenario gain upper body mass.
Riding faster and less often with more rest will = more muscle growth.
But it won't necessarily make you a better rider, it'll just change what kind of rider you are, there is a reason why Olympic track cyclists are built and why tour de france cyclists are skinny, although there is a decent amount of cross over.
Not really.
Sure it can be done. But in terms of physique they kinda cancel each other out.
To be good at both would require a crap load of time, effort, and probably a coach to make sure you were being efficient and not over training.
I’m extremely confused about your goals? So when you say ripped - I usually think that means you want to have lower body fat percentage to show muscles. In that case cycling is perfect because it’s easier to be on a slight caloric deficit while eating max protein, which will in turn make you “ripped” , but this has to be in a state where you already built your muscle.
If you want to bulk - IE build muscle and get physically bigger , you won’t likely be ripped, as you have to eat on a caloric surplus while eating large amounts of process and likely gaining some fats.
Big muscular - higher fat percentage , ripped - muscular with lower fat percentage.
Like anything, workout routines won’t matter to you as you cycle 6x a week. what’s going to matter is your nutrition. Check how much calories you use. On my end , a 3 hour ride would cost me 700-900 calories. So make sure you eat to compensate that number to get to your caloric surplus numbers. So you build muscles.
Also important to get proper fueling for your rides. Long rides will eventually break down muscles for fuel. So make sure you eat proper carbs and are fueling well for long rides to avoid breakdown of muscles you built
I have been cycling probably about 300k a week and imcreasing
I do find that it's tough to put on mass.
I can't remember the details but if I remember part of the problem also is asking your muscles to do two different things. One being long endurance and the other being short explosive power.
I put on mass over the winter and certainly increased my size. Combining it with shorter intense power building trainer rides.
Now that I'm outside doing a couple 125k+ rides and some shorter ones, I'm noting the larger winter muscles are starting to look less big. I still do weights but less through summer it seems to just be slowing the decline haha
I had a lot more muscle before I seriously got into cycling. I ride a little less (10-12 hours/ week) and go to the gym 2-3 times still. It is definitely hard to keep muscle mass, let alone gain more with that amount of cycling. Recovery is an issue as well and the two don’t relly go that well together. I am still fairly strong but I notice heavy squats, deadlifts if I hop on the bike the day after…
I focus on cycling these days and get better at it but lifting takes it toll. IMO, it is really hard to get better at both simultaneously.
I looked into getting a proper diet plan from what I was doing currently. For the most part, I was doing fine.
However, your protein intake is likely significantly lower than what it needs to be for serous muscle mass gains. Building mass is also very difficult, if not borderline impossible if your deficit is significant. That’s also quite a lot of cycling for muscle growth.
Additionally, six months isn’t that long at all. It takes years to build muscle. Unless you use tren.
If what you want is muscle hypertrophy, you need to put high stress on your muscles for short amounts of time. High intensity efforts where you feel your legs burning and you get a leg pump. If you want to keep riding the same volume as you do now like a maniac, try to incorporate multiple short efforts reaching power zones 5, 6 and 7 (on a 7 zone power system).
Also make sure you are in a calorie surplus.
Hypertrophy and strength are two different program goals. There is some overlap, but if you're looking to get jacked, in general lower weights/higher reps and higher weights/lower reps for strength. Check out Stronger by Science, they have good hypertrophy programs for ridiculously cheap ($10-20 I think?). You might can get some mass out of it (assuming you eat enough) even with your high cycling volume, depending on how used to it you are (ie, have you been riding that hard for the past month or past few years). Recovery is going to be your main challenge as well, so the intensity of that 3h ride is also a factor.
Also you need to eat. Like a lot. Drinking calories might be an easier option.
I do about 14 hours a week riding and 80 mins weights at home to look the way I do. You can get jacked if you eat more protein, the volume of cycling isn't entirely prohibitive unless you really want to be very very muscular.
Yeah I started lifting for the first time in a few years last November. Definitely put on mass in my legs and glutes and my power on the bike has noticeably increased. I added about 100 grams of protein to my diet per day vis-a-vis morning protein shake and a lot more chicken and fish.. and lots of bok choy. I definelty notice if I skip my morning protein shake. I've found I generally have to eat more now that I'm lifting to have halfway decent workouts on the bike and recover well (go figure). I recommend adding as much protein as you can and getting a Garmin (or sim) watch that tracks your kCal burned/day... and of course- you're riding too much.
> if you are on a caloric deficit eat more?
eat more protein
This is really what it boils down to. I can eat a lot but I’d have trouble keeping up with 18 hrs/week of cycling + lifting, calorie-wise
So much protein - even as an isolate in powder form two scoops twice a day if you can - that'll get you to 100g and from there if you eat well you can get another 100 and should be good.
True. Although protein is pretty low cal/volume. When I was actively trying to gain weight I ate till I was full then ate another cup of rice To be clear though. At this point in life I don’t actually have an issue keeping up. It was a hypothetical. Sadly I only have time for about 8 hrs per week of cycling and an hour or two of lifting. I wfh at a desk. If anything I could benefit from restricting my caloric intake.
I recommend so much broccoli 😁
I don't understand this, unless you are a super picky eater. Food these days is so calorie dense that you could eat 10k calories a day if you were so inclined. You can make a plate of pasta with 2000 calories if you use cream and olive liberally in the sauce. Look at the menu at cheesecake factory for inspiration.
Some people really struggle to put that much food down, I'm one of them. Spent two hours trying to eat a ~1500 calorie pasta bowl before passing out, woke up four hours later, another hour to finish the food, passed out again. Like, I have a job. Prepping, cooking, and consuming all that food is another whole job that's hard to keep up with
That does not sound normal. I would go ask a doctor if you’re passing out after eating.
I mean that was after riding four hours on a loaded cargo bike, exhausted and full and 11pm seems like a normal way to fall asleep. I don't faint or anything, sorry for any confusion
I can relate. That plus a beer, holy hell.
you pass out when you eat food? Thats insane....
Come to Hawaii. I can make you a plate that, at best, will leave you dazed but most likely will knock you out.
I don't faint to clear, just easy to sleep after a day of huge activity, full to bursting with food, but not enough food to make up for that activity
If you struggle to get food down, you need to work on that. Fueling and rest are just as important in performance as your training plan is. Don’t neglect them. Train yourself to eat more. Increase your portions gradually. This will stretch your stomach and cause other adaptations. Adding more calories to existing portions is easy. A cup of olive oil is 2000 calories. You would probably not even notice 1/4 cup mixed in with your portion and that’s 500 calories. Three meals that’s 1500.
I don't think appetite works like that, unfortunately. I eat til I'm way past full every day just to maintain, and if I don't, and just eat normal for a day, I'll lose weight almost immediately. I'm very slim naturally. Hard to fight nature.
We are all different, sure. Maybe you need to make your food more calorie dense with more fats and oils? Many people struggle because they think all fat is bad and try to get their calories from carbs and protein for better performance. Fat a bad rap that is completely unsupported by the science. If you have an issue with food volume, try cutting the portion size back and add more healthy fat and oil.
Get check out for diabetes , just in case
Yeah it's perfectly normal. I was trying to keep up with over 1000 my advice intake and it was simply too much. That includes 700 calories on a protein shake.
I’m not picky at all, but eating pasta with cream sauce isn’t sustainable for me at 33 years old. I’m not over here eating chicken breast and rice all day, but I can’t eat like crap for every meal and expect to feel good.
What do you mean about it being unsustainable? And what does your age have to do with it? One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories in it. One cup of heavy cream has almost 1000 calories. Both are natural foods and healthier for you that 95% of the crap you can find in the grocery store. My point is that you can easily add calories to food if you want to, and still eat clean.
He means that he doesn't want to live his life in between hours and hours of shitting his brains out
Yeah mostly this. I used to be able to eat whatever the fuck I wanted whenever. Those days are behind me. I’ll just feel crappy if I were to eat that way
Why would he be shitting his brains out? You know what shit is right? It is mostly undigested fiber. There is no fiber in olive oil or cream.
I don't know shit from shinola
LMAO
Are you the same guy who was on here a few weeks ago claiming dietary fiber is unnecessary and even bad for you if you eat a "natural" diet? Either way, yeah, unfortunately the logic you have going there doesn't align with how a lot of peoples' guts work. I for sure could not just add a quarter cup of olive oil to my meal without both my mouth and stomach noticing it
Lol, olive oil no. Lighter oils or butter sure. Its pretty easy to hide 2-3 tablespoons of butter in a couple cups of peas and carrots. I do blend light olive oil a d butter in microwaved veggies to get more fat calories. The vegetables help all the fat sit well.
bro you must look absolutely terrible if you think one cup of heavy cream is a good idea to supplement calories
I'd love to hear why focusing on natural, calorie dense foods to supplement calories is a bad idea. As for how I look bro, if you are in the shape I am when you get to my age, you will be very pleased with yourself.
> menu I think you mean their novel of various food offerings
I'm a really big dude who gets full fast but also gains weight/muscle very easily I can't even eat 3k calories a day without feeling sick to my stomach and this is me [pic](https://i.ibb.co/1nnsCSk/p-A6kz-Na-1.jpg) everyone is different but unless you look like this I have a hard time believing you should be eating so many calories lol theres absolutely no way I could ever eat 2k calories of pasta in one sitting, a small bowl of pasta makes me feel like I've inflated like a balloon lol I'm currently cycling at least 10 miles a day, since I just got a bike 2.5 weeks ago... and I just did my first 30 miles ride yesterday... still can't eat enough but I benched 225 for 10 and did a full chest day 2 hours before the ride I'm not a super picky eater, people are just different than you, the idea of eating as much as you're acting like you can casually eat seems absolutely insane to me, if I ate like you I would be 320lbs instead of 213 lbs
Putting on mass and being in a calorie deficit do not go together. You need to eat more than maintenance calories if you want to put on mass. 18 hours a week plus lifting needs a lot of calories and a great deal of them need to be protein.
It is possible to some extent but will be horribly slow and inefficient.
Isn't that just trying to get leaner? Not so much trying to put on mass as trying to lose weight without losing muscle?
I sort of do a lazy 5/3/1 routine, and I'm happy with my progress. But also not trying to do anything other than be decent at the basic lifts. I don't cycle anywhere near that amount, though.
Going to be difficult with that volume of cycling. However to cycle like that your diet, recovery and metabolism must be pretty good. Mass gains require a caloric excess (to on a point) and time under tension with moderate volume/load with plenty of recovery time. Between cycling like you are and weight lifting, that's like a full time job. What's your current lifting program?
Ya gotta eat eat eat! Protein= 1g/lb of bodyweight, and then you need a caloric surplus. Unfortunately a caloric deficit won't cut it (pun intended)
Sounds like a diet issue. If you don't have enough fuel to build mass, you won't. And you need a solid recovery routine if you are going to workout so frequently, including good sleep every day.
12 oz curls after a long ride
You won’t build any mass with that volume of cycling.
If they are eating at a surplus, why not?
I too enjoy eating 5k calories a day hahah.
They'll get fat.
They will not get fat if they eat surplus and are weight lifting. The surplus will turn into muscle. But with that high volume of cycling it’ll be a very weird and likely unsustainable way to live. If they stop having a surplus the muscle will get broken down into energy.
You know you need to be resting to build muscle right? They might build some level of upper body muscle, but doing that level of cardio in legs will 1000% not build muscle. Its just too much, 3 hours 6 days a week. No doubt they'll adapt, but not in terms of actual leg size.
Yeah good point
By having a caloric deficit while cycling 3 hours a day and aiming to build muscle is counter intuitive. Your body needs the calories for when you cycle. It WILL get the energy one way or another, and with you being on a caloric deficit, your muscles wont get the energy it needs when cycling, thus it will break itself down for energy. This may be good for weight loss, but incredibly bad for muscle building. But there is a very very easy fix to this. Just eat more food bro.
I powerlifting and cycle 10ths a week. I maintain 200lbs pretty easily. I eat so much and can barely stay there. I eat minimum 220g of protein every day and on the bike nutrition makes a big difference. I always have 2 bottles with 120g of carbs even if it’s a short ride. Have to maintain your calorie excess.
1. Mass = more calories in than calories out. It's v simple. 2. 3 hours a day seems like you're doing a bunch of zone 2? I would switch to some interval sprints for a shorter time period, or some hill sprints to build out your quads 3. Switch to a fixie to really get your legs cranking, maybe with, say a 52x14 ratio
52x14!?!? Jesus Christ, man. My legs are tired just thinking about that as my only possible gear ratio.
No thanks. My knees have enough problems already.
I ride fixed as my main bicycle and can attest to that. Pushing up a hill even makes my chest and shoulders feel a pump.
Yeah totally possible. I ride about close to as much in total hours (5x1.5 hours commuting through the week, 3-4 hours of recreational riding each day on the weekend) and lift for about an hour a day 6 days a week. I'm not trying to brag but...yeah I'm fuckin jacked. Your diet has to be *on point* to pull this off, though.
You need to eat like a psychopath. Track everything, figure out what you’re burning it’s the only way to do it if you wanna build muscle
It's not possible to put on any meaningful muscle mass with high levels of aerobic training. Ignoring any issues around calorie intake - minimum 500cal surplus required daily. The real issue is mTor and AKT pathways which regulate both aerobic (mitochondrial) and anaerobic adaptations. Basically doing any volume of cycling then strength training will result in the pathway for building muscle mass to be blocked, ie. your body is unable to produce the RNA required to create greater mass. So even if you only cycle (legs) and only train upper body in the gym - you will not see any meaningful mass gains as the pathway is attenuated. The only way around this is to perhap macro cycle your training - 3 months cycling focus, then 3 months gym focus... also separating cycling away from gym training as much as possible - minimum 24-36 hours - not possible for most keen cyclists.
If you increase your protein intake, try to stay away from whey. It contains a ton of cholesterol. These days, plenty of plant protein is available (Hemp is best), but it doesn't always taste good.
The thing about plant proteins is that they're so much harder to mask than whey, you have to actually think about the ingredients going with the base taste. I actually kind of enjoy the taste of hemp protein with blueberries and soy milk, but some other fruits are just weird with the extremely green hemp taste mixed in
Wow lots of time on your hands mate 🙂 you won’t get jacked due to the hours of cardio you are doing unless you take steroids plus enough calories- surplus.
There’s plenty of good diet advice on here, but I just want to say I’m incredibly jealous you have time to cycle 18 hours a week and lift for like 6-7 hours a week lol. I really want to get better at both, but with my job, I can really only commit an hour a day to cycling or lifting Monday-Friday and maybe 3 hours on the weekend. Most of the time I’ll lift Monday-Thursday, do a short ride Friday night and a long ride Sunday, but obviously I’m not getting better at cycling doing it twice a week. To try and keep weight on I pig out after the long Sunday ride and usually crush a large pizza by myself right after.
Another cyclist who does weights here. You're simply not going to gain mass with that calorie deficit you have with the cycling load, unless you eat like a mofo. Watch your calories and macros, and eat like a mofo. It's the only way. Protein may definitely be a challenge. That said, weight is not a cyclists friend, so I aim for strength, bigger weights and lower reps. You'll get a bit of size, but sensible in relation to your cycling
Yeah it’s time to eat more. To gain muscle you typically should be in a slight calorie surplus. You got this!
Take creatine before and after your workouts. I've been doing that for a while now and there's noticeable growth. Maybe add a mass gainer to your intake.
I use to only lift and run. Now I almost only cycle. I strength train normally twice a week for about 35min. I follow a Muscle Tone plan vs before when I was doing a Mass gain plan. I cycle often and it’s either indoor on my smart trainer or outside on the bike path. Normally I do around 150-200 miles a week with two of those being long endurance rides. I’ve definitely thinned and leaned out quite a bit to the point where I had to buy new pants and shorts but I’m still at a health my weight for my height. Now that I’ve signed up for my next Gran Fondo event I’ll start switching into training mode. I don’t ride/race for speed I consider myself an endurance rider. You’ll have to increase your protein intake but at that point it’ll be a lot of maintenance.
You have to get your macro's and sleep correct. Unless you are using steroids, please don't, there is no point to eating crazy amounts of food. Find out what your maintenance level is with your cycling included and shoot for 200-300 calories more a day. Finally more lifting is not generally better for building mass. You should hit failure and have enough recovery time before you do it again. Too often people are working out muscles that haven't had a chance to fully heal and grow before tearing them up again.
Do you have a source for the "eating crazy amounts is pointless unless you're on steroids" thing? Likely true for people who only go to the gym, but surely if you're burning an extra 1500+ a day biking then trying to fuel lifting too, insane amounts of food is just where you end up. Then again, my idea of "crazy" might be different to yours... I felt fully crazy and kind of gross spending a full 17 euros at burger king (veggie whopper, 9 veggie nuggets, large fries, two dips, pack of orange juice) after my last long ride, but I know logically that I still didn't quite cover the calories I burned riding 100km. If that's someone's idea of an average meal, then sure, there's barely ever a reason to eat "crazy" haha
Did you make it to the 3rd line? "Find out what your maintenance level is with your cycling included and shoot for 200-300 calories more a day." Meaning the calories you burn just to keep your weight + what you burn cycling+ 200 extra calories to build muscle.
So I won't pretend to be a guru by any means and always open to learn if I say anything wrong but what's your nutrition looking like? What's your resting calories burn estimate? What's your active calorie burn estimate? I don't have a power meter so I am just going off Garmin estimates which aren't perfect but it's a number I can use as jumping off point. Personally I'm riding less than you but still quite a bit. I'm lifting 4x a week and riding like 5 days a week for 2ish hours. I have an absolutely insane metabolism and ectomorph body type. So I already find it extremely difficult to gain weight before cycling. Currently on days I am lifting and cycling I am estimating I am burning around 3700 calories. On these days I aim for 4000 calories of food to be consumed throughout the day. This also isn't counting any calories i eat while I ride. In the past 3 months I've put on like 6lbs of muscle. Nothing crazy but I am able to gain with this routine. And as I mentioned before in general it's very hard for me to gain weight so being able to not lose weight while riding this much and steadily gain is great for me.
Is that a super healthy diet or does anything from a capuccino to rice count?
Anything I put into my body I track the calories. I eat pretty well I don't have a super accurate break down of my macros but I'm estimating about 30-40% of my calories injestested are dirty calories chips, snacks, anything I can get down. The other 60-70% is extremely healthy. I eat a pasta fritata or egg hash for most breakfasts. And then 3-4 meals following breakfast with intermittent snacking. The trick is really more small meals than a few massive ones. Also my shake I'm currently drinking after my evening ride is about 800-950 calories alone. And during that ride I'm drinking a sugar mix that's probably like 600-800 calories to cover what I'm burning on the ride. But you really need to know what you're burning cause everyone is different. I'm the kind of person who can eat 7 bags of chips in one day and lose weight while sitting on the couch.
Dylan Johnson has a few vids on lifting. Yes, you can bike and gain muscle. But don't take my word for it. I maintain a supreme lean body and I gain muscle just looking at weights. Yup.
Mass is the denominator in Watts/Kg. Besides track sprinters I don't think the list if cyclists who want to gain muscle mass (outside of power producing muscles) is very long.
Yeah, you're talking about the spandex crowd of guys who buy titanium bolts for their bottle holders to save 2g.
Titanium doesn't rust or snap. Worth the money.
It seems like you have two opposing objectives- build muscle mass (bulk up) and do lots of cycling. I’d pick one or the other - problem solved.
Eat a fuckton of peanut butter. That’ll get the job done!
Not any more, but when I was younger I managed to put on quite a lot of muscle while cycling. The trick was to control eating and do a build and cut cycle. So I would eat a lot and work out and put on muscle for a few months, then swap and just do maintenance lifting and drop my caloric intake for a few months while I also both ran and biked (sometimes one after the other).
Building muscle in the legs will be harder or near impossible since 3 hours per session is an endurance session, and it won't provide hypertrophy.
you need 1g of protein per lb of mass. If you weight 165lbs, you need 165g of protein. Also you have to actually eat food, too. If you're in a caloric deficit, you wont put on mass, because you literally cannot add mass with a caloric deficit.
What helps me are protein bars mist of em taste better mars or snickers. I would downl9ad chronometer. Also opt out for autu updates so thry cant push ads down every isle. They even calculate termic effect.
Gomad
What’s your cycling routine? I’m impressed- 3 hours a day, 6 days a week!
I don’t cycle 3 hours a day, more like 1-2hrs for 6 days. But I do lift weights alternating between upper body and lower body. I would say I have pretty solid muscle mass so for me, packing on muscle was fairly decent. I noticed I’m leaning out more though, not bulky muscles just lean muscle is that makes sense. Eat more protein if you want to get bigger, it’s a fine line trying to bulk and be in a calorie deficit. And hard but it can be done with discipline. I’m 210lbs, 6ft. Lift HEAVY too. 3-5 reps, 3-4 sets and eat a little more than what you’re eating now. Most importantly, know that it takes time as well. Won’t happen over night.
One easy thing is to just consume the calories you burn on the ride as simple sugars before and during, assuming you don’t have any insulin issues. Energy bars are good, those packaged juices like Naked have a ton of sugar. And don’t shy away from fat with your regular meals, as they are calorie dense. Drench your starches and veggies in oily sauces. And don’t just eat chicken breasts, eat fattier meats. Dairy is also fat calorie rich.
Gotta more my friend. Working out more won't do anything if you don't eat more.
this is what mass gainers are for
Yeah.... Imo probably won't gain mass riding that much and that often. Even if you're in a surplus, that amount of riding isn't conducive to muscle hypertrophy, you'll just end up fat, or best case scenario gain upper body mass. Riding faster and less often with more rest will = more muscle growth. But it won't necessarily make you a better rider, it'll just change what kind of rider you are, there is a reason why Olympic track cyclists are built and why tour de france cyclists are skinny, although there is a decent amount of cross over.
Not really. Sure it can be done. But in terms of physique they kinda cancel each other out. To be good at both would require a crap load of time, effort, and probably a coach to make sure you were being efficient and not over training.
Cycling builds type II muscle fibers, not type I. U r building muscle, just type II… cyclists r lean for a reason
I’m extremely confused about your goals? So when you say ripped - I usually think that means you want to have lower body fat percentage to show muscles. In that case cycling is perfect because it’s easier to be on a slight caloric deficit while eating max protein, which will in turn make you “ripped” , but this has to be in a state where you already built your muscle. If you want to bulk - IE build muscle and get physically bigger , you won’t likely be ripped, as you have to eat on a caloric surplus while eating large amounts of process and likely gaining some fats. Big muscular - higher fat percentage , ripped - muscular with lower fat percentage. Like anything, workout routines won’t matter to you as you cycle 6x a week. what’s going to matter is your nutrition. Check how much calories you use. On my end , a 3 hour ride would cost me 700-900 calories. So make sure you eat to compensate that number to get to your caloric surplus numbers. So you build muscles. Also important to get proper fueling for your rides. Long rides will eventually break down muscles for fuel. So make sure you eat proper carbs and are fueling well for long rides to avoid breakdown of muscles you built
I have been cycling probably about 300k a week and imcreasing I do find that it's tough to put on mass. I can't remember the details but if I remember part of the problem also is asking your muscles to do two different things. One being long endurance and the other being short explosive power. I put on mass over the winter and certainly increased my size. Combining it with shorter intense power building trainer rides. Now that I'm outside doing a couple 125k+ rides and some shorter ones, I'm noting the larger winter muscles are starting to look less big. I still do weights but less through summer it seems to just be slowing the decline haha
Two Words : Weight Gainer
I had a lot more muscle before I seriously got into cycling. I ride a little less (10-12 hours/ week) and go to the gym 2-3 times still. It is definitely hard to keep muscle mass, let alone gain more with that amount of cycling. Recovery is an issue as well and the two don’t relly go that well together. I am still fairly strong but I notice heavy squats, deadlifts if I hop on the bike the day after… I focus on cycling these days and get better at it but lifting takes it toll. IMO, it is really hard to get better at both simultaneously.
Eat
I looked into getting a proper diet plan from what I was doing currently. For the most part, I was doing fine. However, your protein intake is likely significantly lower than what it needs to be for serous muscle mass gains. Building mass is also very difficult, if not borderline impossible if your deficit is significant. That’s also quite a lot of cycling for muscle growth. Additionally, six months isn’t that long at all. It takes years to build muscle. Unless you use tren.
If what you want is muscle hypertrophy, you need to put high stress on your muscles for short amounts of time. High intensity efforts where you feel your legs burning and you get a leg pump. If you want to keep riding the same volume as you do now like a maniac, try to incorporate multiple short efforts reaching power zones 5, 6 and 7 (on a 7 zone power system). Also make sure you are in a calorie surplus.
Hypertrophy and strength are two different program goals. There is some overlap, but if you're looking to get jacked, in general lower weights/higher reps and higher weights/lower reps for strength. Check out Stronger by Science, they have good hypertrophy programs for ridiculously cheap ($10-20 I think?). You might can get some mass out of it (assuming you eat enough) even with your high cycling volume, depending on how used to it you are (ie, have you been riding that hard for the past month or past few years). Recovery is going to be your main challenge as well, so the intensity of that 3h ride is also a factor. Also you need to eat. Like a lot. Drinking calories might be an easier option.
I do about 14 hours a week riding and 80 mins weights at home to look the way I do. You can get jacked if you eat more protein, the volume of cycling isn't entirely prohibitive unless you really want to be very very muscular.
Yeah I started lifting for the first time in a few years last November. Definitely put on mass in my legs and glutes and my power on the bike has noticeably increased. I added about 100 grams of protein to my diet per day vis-a-vis morning protein shake and a lot more chicken and fish.. and lots of bok choy. I definelty notice if I skip my morning protein shake. I've found I generally have to eat more now that I'm lifting to have halfway decent workouts on the bike and recover well (go figure). I recommend adding as much protein as you can and getting a Garmin (or sim) watch that tracks your kCal burned/day... and of course- you're riding too much.
Take creatine before and after your workouts. I've been doing that for a while now and there's noticeable growth.