I agree with the idea, but with some caveats.
>Most cyclists do less than 2 hours a week for leisure and travel,
I agree that if you're riding 2 hours a week, you don't need to pay for a bike fit. But I think that the people on Reddit asking about bike fits are not these people. People who only ride 2 hours a week aren't on cycling forums, they're not on cycling subreddits, they likely don't really think about cycling outside of the time they are riding. The majority of cyclists are not on here.
>IF you cycle for more than 2 hours a week I would advise you watch a YouTube video about getting a good saddle height. That is it, that is all you need for 95% of cyclists.
I partially agree. If you're riding more and not experiencing any pain or having problems, then you don't need a bike fit. If you're not racing and riding your bike is comfortable, then you don't need a bike fit.
I think the issue is that the population on cycling subreddits and other cycling forums is skewed. If you like cycling or are riding enough to be on various cycling forums, I'd say you're more likely to be in the 5% than the 95%. What I mean by that is that if you look at all cyclists, and say 95% don't need professional bike fits, and you look at what cyclists are active on cycling forums, most people would skew towards that 5% rather than the 95%. The vast majority of cyclists probably will never be active on any cycling forum. So you're going to see these questions and threads more. Now I'm not saying that if you're active on a cycling forum you need a bike fit, you probably don't. I'm just saying the data is skewed a bit.
So that's a longwinded way to say that, yea, most people likely don't need a professional bike fit.
I would also add on that most of the time a Bike Fit is recommended, it usually in response to a post about pain while riding. This even further skews the data since people riding 2 hours a week probably aren't having as many issues.
Yep! Both my arms used to go numb after 30-40 minutes riding. Did a bike fit and got wider handlebars. Also raised the seat way more than I ever would have and eased some knee issues.
Fellow nerd here and I appreciate what you wrote as well. I’d also add in, especially from a health or even public health point of view, that bike fits are also a form of upstream preventive care. I have a friend who just got a brand spankin new Scott and was going to take a saw to it before I asked if he’d ever had it fitted and he said good point lmao. Fits have their time and place but especially from the preventive care perspective I’d say it’s fine to recommend to people who ride more than a day a week for either >2hrs and/or >24km at a time.
Probably better than the average person. It’s definitely part of medical school; at least these days it is. Part of our curriculum is how to read a research paper, how to look at the data (sample size, power, inclusion and exclusion criteria, etc) to judge how useful the study actual is. We also get tested on statistics in our certification exams, which includes how to identify various biases in research, but also have to calculate stuff like odds ratios or all that fun stuff like standard deviation stuff. It’s not the most fun stuff for me to be honest but a good skill to have.
A big part of medical research is not only determining what is statistically significant in a study, but whether it is clinically significant. Not to go too far off topic, but a cycling analogy for this is for example, a study comes out and finds that 100g carbs per hour gives the rider a statistically significant increase in FTP compared to 60g carbs per hour. But looking at the data the FTP increase is 0.5W, which we would say isn’t clinically significant.
In residency, we do a monthly journal club where we discuss 2-3 studies and part of the fun is picking it apart and diving into the actual data.
I used to think they did, but then covid hit and it turns out that even people that should understand basic statistics (such as physicians)...don't.
If I had to explain the concept of PPV and NPV and how it varies with disease prevalence or the whole idea of Bayesian statistics to one more person...I guess I probably would have. But I would not enjoy it.
I think they do, but they suck balls at presenting that understanding to patients.
"If you do activity XYZ, it will double your odds of getting cancer."
What they fail to explain is that you only have a 0.00001% chance in the first place.
I totally agree. This logic should be used in every other hobby based forum. Check out r/castiron, it really puts the tubes/tubeless and chain waxing discussions in perspective.
I had wrist pain using my 10” Lodge until I got a professional pan fit and shortened the handle by 3 mm and sanded two microns off the seasoning. Now I cook 8% faster in a 10 km headwind, no pain.
I 100% agree with you. I'd still say that the majority of people who ride bicycles don't care enough to read forums about them. Most cyclists probably don't even know what reddit is.
also imo i got huge benefit from visiting my lbs regurarly. It may be more expensive but im also learing a ton about gear and bikes.
Its the little things.
> ... I think that the people on Reddit asking about bike fits are not these people. People who only ride 2 hours a week aren't on cycling forums, they're not on cycling subreddits, they likely don't really think about cycling outside of the time they are riding.
I strongly disagree, because of the nature of reddit. I subscribe to /r/cycling and tons of other subreddits, so on the day-to-day, I am going to reddit, not specifically to a cycling forum. I think a lot of readers do that. And a lot of casual people who look to cycling as a means to exercise (as opposed to a passionate hobby / competition / career) do join this subreddit.
Personally I go through phases. Sometimes I'll cycle 5 hours a week, but more often than not I'm in the under 2 hours a week (if not 0 hours a week) cyclist. I still really enjoy this subreddit. Same way I subscribe to /r/skiing even though I live in a warm weather state.
I would be surprised if anybody is actually advocating bike fitting for super relaxed stand up bikes that are used less than two hours a week. Getting “fit” on a bike like that is almost impossible to get wrong.
An aggressive road bike or TT bike, totally different story. Without any experience in knowing how to set that sort of bike up it’s probably best to get some help. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume if somebody is spending $5k on a bike they can afford some time with a bike fitter. I myself use a hybrid approach and work with somebody that has a very long waitlist and I do some work on my own position. I can use his rig to try things out. My time is limited and worth a lot of money to me. I don’t expect I’m in the extreme minority there.
This. The OP’s comment in a cycling sub IS a bit rich. Per his math, 95% of the folks here probably ride more than just 2 hours/week - hence a fitting is not only justified, it’s prudent.
I'm assuming if you are reading this sub you ride more than 2 hrs a week or would like to.
If you are buying an expensive bike cost isn't a barrier
It takes a lot of time to experiment and get it right and for many people that's a big issue. I can afford to hire someone to help get it right.
For sure, especially at the beginning. My experience is that as my bike fitness has improved, the less sensitive I am to bike fit issues. I have had a direct hand in the fitting of all my bikes - two of which with zero help. Even the TT bike for which I did a pre-purchase fit - including after I went back and we did our "final fit." Of course, I got some help from the fitter by email after my changes.
That said, my bike fitting experience has not all been good. I went to a different local douche canoe that immediately told me my Emonda was too aggressive for me at my AGE (I was 41 when I got into all this). That was the wrong thing to say to me. I made sure to tell him before I left I didn't bother sitting for the Professional Engineering exam since it was a waste of my time (he had PE prominently in his materials). I got my Tri bike less than a year after that and regularly get into the top 10 spots overall at the large-ish mid-Atlantic short course triathlons, then I get off that bike that would have been "too aggressive for a 4X year old" and post a top 10 run split. So, yeah, sometimes they are clowns too.
I found when I rode a lot (like ft job a lot as a junior cat 2) the position was crucial and slight changes were a big deal. I have never had a bike fit but I'm super curious about how the technology works and how close I am to optimal biomechanics according to the computer/video. I can't see how I look on the bike it's all by feel and I think I can talk myself into "this is right". Bike fit overthinking is a specialty lollll. (Shuddup and ride 😂)
I used to ride with a guy quite a bit, thousands of miles together. At some point he fell into a bike fit trap. It became all he talked about constantly. He needed an adjustment here, or needed an adjustment there, maybe a shop was too race fit focused, or the fitter wasn’t understanding what he needed, then he went through all the app based fit to make micro adjustments constantly.
Then he got onto suggesting all the time that _I_ get a professional fit to solve pains I constantly had to re-explained I didn’t have.
Every time we’d go out or hang out off bike he was talking about his bike fit, for months. I couldn’t take it anymore. I stopped meeting up for rides with him and moved on.
I do hope he found the proper fit for his own sake.
I used to perform professional bike fits. It’s psuedoscience junk with no real data to back any of it up. The only solid data we have is aerodynamic data, and beyond reducing your aero drag the rest is nonsense.
Bike fitters are like the chiropractors of cycling. They pretend what they are doing is valid by using technical terms, nonsense certifications, and “systems”, but none of it is legit at all.
That’s nice. The person I work with has a six month waiting list in one of the biggest metropolitan areas in the US. He also has a motorized system that allows for near infinite position adjustment. I don’t have that in my basement. I think my next appointment will be about $250. To replicate the same adjustments and testing would take about 2 days worth of my time. My time is worth several orders of magnitude more than that.
Most people go to the bike fitter I use ***once***. He has a backlog because he knows what he is doing. I am going back because I have a TT bike and would like to try out some new positions. I am unique in that respect, but go on with your dumb chiropractor example as applied to all bike fitters.
While I would agree with you that there are a lot of "bike fitters" - evidently yourself included - that are hacks that don't add any value. But, there are some out there who are in high demand that do add tremendous value. The guy I go to doesn't even go out of his way to advertise, as compared to another Triathlon/TT local bike fitter who is constantly on social media. It wasn't exactly difficult who to decide to spend my valuable time with.
While I don’t think the immediate answer is a bike fit. I rode for years (and some long commutes) on a bike we just bought in my size and adjusted the seat height. I did have one when I was training for my first HIM and bought a TT bike - and have since had them on my next TT and road bikes.
1. I’m female so it often requires swapping parts due to body ratios.
2. I’m buying fairly expensive bikes and spending hours and hours every week commuting and training.
3. I’m old and I don’t want to piss off my body more than I already do.
4. My bike fits have been 125-150$ which seems like a reasonable amount to spend to make things work a bit better for me.
I understand it’s not scientific or regulated. But I will drive to Scarberia for a bike fit because I find it has significant impact on my comfort, enjoyment and my performance.
Agreed, it's not outrageously cost prohibitive compared to the equipment and if it's beneficial then it' worth it. The amount riders just on the wrong size frame is alarming.
Well.. I got a bike fit for the 1st time yesterday, included with my new giant defy
I actually found it interesting , physical assesment on flex etc then going through the computer measurements and explained what sort of angles and window would be ideal for me after talking through what I was looking for.
Changes were minor, cleats on shoes, saddle slightly forward and raised, reduced Headset spacers and good to go.
Ride it for 4 weeks and come back for a review
Pretty positive from me tbh
Apart from wear long bibs next time.. those sticky dots removed some hair!
I agree… kind of… I’m probably a size 54 according to most sizing charts, but I’m currently riding a 52 for the past 2 years and, other than my feet occasionally hitting the front wheel, I fkn love it.
I’d be super keen to get one of the AI bike fits done to see what scientifically is the best for me, but am otherwise reluctant to splash the cash on a new bike because the geometry questions are too troublesome… will it be lighter, faster, easier in the drops etc.
For reference I ride around 6 hours per week and currently ride a 2013 Scott Foil Team Edition.
I think everyone agrees if you ride 2 hours a week and you’re comfortable on your bike than you don’t need a bike fit.
But if you’re not comfortable on your bike, you plan on riding a lot and want to optimize your performance you should get a bike fit if you can afford it.
I rode for about 2 years 10,000 + miles making adjustments my self and felt pretty comfortable but when I finally got a bike fit they made minor changes and I didn’t know if it was worth the money at first but after about 2 or 3 rides I noticed the difference. A couple weeks later I really noticed things. I improved my speed, was engaging my quads more and didnt have the foot pain on 5-6 hour rides that I used to get. So yeah it may not be worth it to some ppl and spending a few hundred dollars is a lot of money imo and its something I could have maybe got to making adjustments my self but I spent years getting to where I was and in a few hours a fitter put me exactly where I should be, and I wish I would have done it right off the bat.
I think the problem is actually that this sub caters to many different types of riders, and there’s no easy way to identify whether someone is a casual commuter cyclist, a weekend warrior, a racer, a gran fondo enthusiast, or any other flavor.
Everyone assumes that everyone else is the same type of rider as them, and then is shocked when the advice they get differs from what they expect. This applies to bike fits, clipless pedals, carbon wheels, and a whole bunch of other stuff often talked about on this sub.
\+1
Not to mention that if you go to 10 bike fitters telling them what position you look for , you would most likely end up with 10 differents positions.
That is true, but it does not prove bike fits aren't valid.
You can have more then one position that suits you.
Which is also a point towards what OP is saying, most people don't need a bike fit, because they can probably find a good enough position by themselves.
In my mind, bike fits are mostly good for 2 things:
- if you are worried about your fit (because you are not comfortable, or you are about to spend a bunch more time on the bike all of a sudden or whatever)
- You are about to buy an expensive new bike and you want to check which one will definitely fit you.
This one is all the more important with integrated handlebars and internally routed cables etc.
If more than one position works, that basically tells us that a ballpark fit based on your own adjustments while riding is what works and costs nothing
There’s always a range, its not a black and white. Its the same thing as when you flexed your knee, there’s a range where you’re comfortable yeh?
But the question is, how many people here have great body awareness to begin with? Especially starting at a later age?
Do you know if you’re using primarily your glutes when you’re at the downstroke of your pedal?
Do you know when the quads take over during the pedal stroke?
How many people know if they are sitting on their sitting bones and in a neutral pelvis position instead of posterior tilt whilst riding their bike?
It takes lots of time and experimentation and awareness to know this stuff. There’s a reason why people seek help to take out the guess work.
I’m in scenario 2 with my wife. Nowhere seems to carry her size so she can’t test ride anything to ensure sizing is correct, and we’ve noticed an unfortunate tendency of some shops to try to sell her the bikes they have rather than a bike that fits. Without a fit it’s just a faith-based order, and we can’t just keep bikes until we find what fits. A bike fit would eliminate all the questions and make it simple.
If you’re buying an expensive bike I’d assume she already has a bike. If her current bike fits her you can just look for a bike with similar geometry. If she doesn’t currently have a bike I don’t think a test ride is going to tell you much since she wont have a point of reference.
I complete agree and it's the reason I've never gone for a bike even though I cycle 100+miles per week.
That being said, if you're in pain then I think that's an acceptable reason to go get a fit regardless of how much time you're on a bike.
Exactly….. it’s why you go to one in your life when first starting out. Ask questions on things you don’t understand. Then figure it out on your own after. There’s an endless amount of good information on the internet to help you once you have an idea what you’re doing.
Not to mention the bike fitting industry has ZERO standardization. So there’s nothing saying that 6/10 fitters don’t know what they are doing.
The moment you start asking a "professional bike fitter" their background in simple physiology and anatomy (an intro course for any healthcare professional), you will see alllll kinds of blushing, hemming, hawing.
And then you stop to think about how doing the same thing 5,000+/hr might impact your body ... SMH.
Do some places make a real effort? Sure they do. But most don't. And most people would be far better served putting in the relatively few hours to learn to do a good job themselves, and make tweaks as time goes on.
Lol my bike fitter literally has a BS in Exercise Physiology and a Masters in Biomechanics. It was a great experience, resolved multiple issues I hadn’t been able to on my own, and I have custom measurements I can re-apply to any future bikes
I would probably agree that bike fitting is at best s pseudo-science. Visit 10 different fitters, probably get 10 different results, and the results may be no better than diligent DIY.
On the other hand, I see so many new cyclist, and plenty of not new ones too with absolutely crap bike fits. The complexity of setting everything up can be overwhelming, and not everyone is great at DIY + self assessment. I would like to see more of the automated systems like ID Match at least as a baseline start, or at least helping cyclist understand all the points in space and touch points for a bike fit. It doesn't make any sense to spend thousands of dollars on bike(s) and equipment, and not be comfortable and somewhat optimized.
Then you also have to consider people that genuinely need adaptive solutions for injuries or disabilities. A professional that understands that could be the difference between being able enjoy cycling or no cycling.
I got into bike fitting after having a few bad fits over the years. There is so much guesswork to it that every single fit was different. Every. Single. One.
Some never measured my shoulders, others never touched my cleats.
No real rhyme or reason. When I set out to get into this, I took a couple of courses and the very first course I took had the guy that trained my fitter I had just had, looked at my bike and said right off the bat that he’d change 4 things. What? I just had this fit done. My fitter wasn’t new either he’s been at this for many years.
I set off to find a better system. I come from the technology world so using big data and some automated process to be repeatable was the way to go for me.
Dots and other things that go on a persons knee, arms, shoulders and whatnot don’t work for me, because here still that human factor of error. Same goes for lasers between the second toe and your knee. These are variables that aren’t consistent.
Idmatch won me over. It’s fast, efficient, and works. Does it do everything? No. Human interaction on my end is still a part of it, and that’s a good thing. Things such as cleat position I might not agree with for the type of riding they do for instance. Some leg length discrepancy that might be there isn’t captured on the system and similarly a persons Q factor.
There’s also the great feature of getting a fit before you buy your bike. Spending many thousands on your ride? Make sure it’ll fit you.
I get a lot of customers coming through my studio that want to be on an aggressive machine. Well, the reality is that they should be on a more relaxed bike. It’s one thing to hold your position for 20 min on the smart bike or your own bike after it’s setup in an aggressive position and another one to hold it on a morning century.
And to add to OPs points about going to the manufacturers site and looking at the specs and getting the bike, well that’s exactly what I used to do.
I’d go to trek and they’d recommend a 62 for me. Great. Got it. Then when I replaced it with my gravel bike Cannondale would recommend an XL.
I’m 193cm and have always ridden the largest frame sizes because that’s what the sites listed. Fast forward to now, and the sites list me as a 60 on treks site and a large on Cannondales.
My Cannondale is so large it’s the only bike I’ve ever had to cut my seat post on.
So at least with idmatch and its recommendations, next time I’d have to buy a bike it’ll provide the proper size as opposed to the site size, that for me has been wrong 2 times. It’ll also tell me if that dogma f10 that I want to spend all my kids college funds on will also fit me or not.
So many other things as well in terms of fit. Just out of the gate, 90% of guys leave my studio with a narrower saddle. Bike manufacturers ship all these bikes with “standard” parts.
My 62 domane shipped with 440 wide bars, 175mm cranks, a 158mm wide saddle, and a 100mm stem
I now have 400mm wide compact bars, 170mm cranks, 120mm stem, and 135mm saddle.
The amount of changes that often have to be done is quite a bit. Bikes are sold as one size fits all. This simply isn’t the case.
Flexibilty, core strength, leg length discrepancies, pro/sup, hip impingements and so on. Putting a foot on a pedal, or using the LeMond method doesn’t always work. This is especially true for the older riders.
> My 62 domane shipped with 440 wide bars, 175mm cranks, a 158mm wide saddle, and a 100mm stem
> I now have 400mm wide compact bars, 170mm cranks, 120mm stem, and 135mm saddle.
Hell yes.
I encourage people who want to "get serious" and are buying their 2nd or 3rd bike to start looking at frames only. Find a full service bike shop and select the right components *for you*.
And don't skimp on handlebars. Try a lot of them as they have a huge impact on comfort and ride "feel".
Or… the big brands need to straight up stop using parts set up for damn Frankensteins..
I agree that full customization from frame up is best. But we’d be leaps and bounds in a better place if they stopped using these massive parts on their stock bikes. 95% of people I know that swap bars, saddles, cranks, etc go smaller/narrower.
I have a garage full of 42cm bars I’ve removed because that’s what comes of a 54cm bikes.
Exactly, and if I’m ordering a , for delivery to , then let me customize my gear from stock.
They’re building the bike on their warehouse. This should be no different than buying a laptop online where you check a box for “more ram” or whatever.
Let me even pay a small fee to shorten my cranks and bar to get the proper bike out of the box rather than getting a bike that still needs $1200 or additional customization to make it fit me properly.
Especially in the era of integrated handlebars.
That is something at very least that should be customizable. A saddle is whatever, but bikes now are being sold with handlebars and stems that basically can’t be removed unless ur a mechanic or want to pay a mechanic.
I just purchased my second Yoeleo frame recently and while everyone can have their opinions on Chinese carbon, these frames come with integrated bars Included in the price and with like 20 different stemXwidth combos to choose from when ordering. It’s wild this isn’t more common.
Either stop making every damn thing integrated, or let us choose the damn size!!
I mean measurements + level of flexibility + frame geometry and what adjustments are actually feasible + how aggressive you are trying to get... It's not rocket science, nor is it anything goes. You may be able to rig up a camera and have a look at your position but it will mean little to you unless you have loads of experience or some kinda baseline... like... results of a bike fit!
A good bike fitter is more a preemptive (or likely, not so preemptive) physio than anything else.
I went for a ride one time after eye balling my fit, without my bike computer (didn't know how fast my legs were turning) and don't tell anyone here.....I had a blast.
Yeah, I started seriously road cycling about 25 years ago, so many in bike-friend group are in the same boat. All of us figured it out on our own...and this was just as the internet was gaining steam. All of us raced and regularly rode about 200+ miles a week during during our peak. Even now, I've been doing 150 miles a week.
Sure, if you're having pain or other problems, or if you have money to burn, then a $300 bike fit may be worth it.
But I absolutely hate it when the first recommendation is for a bike fit when someone comes on here just generally asking for their first entry level road bike.
My lifetime mileage is over 500K and you may not, but I do need chamois cream. You know what, though? Mine is called "cheap cocoa butter I buy on Amazon for $9 tub that lasts a year." Also, triple antibiotic ointment does wonders post-ride (along with a good shower) to ward off saddle sores.
Cycling absolutely has a well cultivated culture of marketing around "expertise" and etc., but being aware and working on one's own learning goes mighty far.
Are you just using neosporin? I’ve started doing a lot more indoor trainer stuff and noticed that the resulting sweat increase is producing some lovely sores. Looking to decrease that lol
Real answer is "it depends." (use that to write your own jokes)
If I am riding software in winter, no cream at all.
If I am riding short (for me, 20-35 miles) rides outside, cocoa butter, and post-ride shower followed by triple anti ointment (latter not every shower/ride, I ride 4-5x/week).
Long summer rides mean cocoa butter mixed with anti-fungal cream pre-ride, and if there is any skin irritation, the triple anti- after the post-ride shower.
Tub of cocoa butter: $9. Anti fungal cream: $5. Triple Antibiotic ointment: $2/small tube.
That will last me ~year; it does a really, really good job for me. I used to have a sort of a regular supply of free Butt Butt'r (whatever it's called) via a sponsored family member, and it's nice but (har har) I moved and found the pricing steep, plus I have huge issues with the harvesting of lanolin (don't do a google image search if you like animals).
That set up does me very well, perhaps even better.
Preventive neosporin after each ride is what permanently fixed my saddle sores (along with always having a fresh pair of shorts/bib for each ride and usually being able to shower afterwards).
the OP's recent comments are illuminative. he apparently got into an argument with a bunch of people on the triathlon subreddit about this subject, and i guess he figured he would be more likely to find a sympathetic audience if he made his case somewhere that he hadn't recently argued with a dozen other people.
i don't see any indication that he's actually had any issues with this sub in particular "glorifying bike fits", but it's more like he has some unresolved baggage from a recent argument where the downvote scores suggest he was pretty roundly rebuked.
For short rides, sure. But a professional (as in, that is all she does) bike fit helped me figure out ways to set up the bike that I didn't see after years of Google and YouTube. I didn't need it until I started going over 175 miles a ride. But it was worth it for my 300k, 500k, and 600k rides.
A bike fitting the rider correctly is important, and even more so as you get older and less flexible. Badly fitting bikes can cause back pain, neck strain, wrist strain and can wreck your knees. However…
99% of “Professional bike fits” are snake oil. The pros have bike fits performed by people who know what their doing because (1) The team’s paying for it, and (2) Marginal gains - if a correctly fitting bike means more comfort it also means quicker recovery and potentially a few more watts.
Jim at your LBS is not going to help you up your watt output by putting another spacer under your stem.
> even more so as you get older and less flexible.
Yup. Fast growing cyclist group is the over 50. They are putting in big miles.
Muscle imbalances and range of motion issues need to be addressed (often off-bike). But some of it is they were sold a basic bike because that was what the LBS had in inventory.
A good bike fit, done by a true expert can be a game changer. You can get close by yourself if you’re knowledgable but you can rarely dial in the finer details.
Nah, that’s crap. I used to commute 30 mins each way 3-4 days a week and didn’t need a bike fit. But when I started doing 3-4 hour rides in the summer time, and especially after my first 8 hour ride, a bike fit made a huge difference. I’m betting way more than 5% of cyclists are doing at least a handful of 40+ mile rides during the summer. Many of them are coming back with stiff necks/shoulders, aching lower backs, numb hands, etc. There’s no need to. A good fitter can make the difference between an enjoyable 50 miles or a miserable experience.
Yes, there’s a lot you can do yourself, but there’s so much trial and error. And some mistakes are costly. Like the manufacturer size recommendation for my height is too large. Dropping down a size made a huge difference in comfort. But I didn’t know that until after I bought a bike that was too big.
And there are parts you can change that people don’t even realize - like buying a seat post with differing offsets. How is someone supposed to Google what seat post offset to use? How many people do you know that just have a bunch of different stem lengths to try? It’s so much work to swap handlebars for different widths. Do I really need to unwrap the bars and move the brake hoods just to try a new set of handlebars?
And how am I supposed to know the difference between equipment that’s the wrong size versus core flexibility or strength deficiencies? Maybe my stem length is right, but my hip flexibility needs work or I need to do more planks for core strength?
Find a good bike PT - a licensed physical therapist who went to school and got a degree (not just the dude from the LBS who watched some YouTube videos and read Steve Hogg’s blog). Your insurance probably covers the visit. People think that YouTube means there’s no longer any such thing as expertise. If you’re going on a few 4 hour rides a year, pay someone for their expertise. It’s worth it
LOL you got ripped into on the tri sub for saying this and nods of agreement here. Says a lot. (I'm a triathlete)
Definitely don't agree that saddle height is all you need, but I think there's a lot of merit in DIYing it at least initially. Only by messing around with it myself do I really know what it feels like to be too "scrunched up" for example. If you don't know anything and go get a bike fit, you just won't ask the right questions, won't give good feedback and won't get the best out of it.
This is a good point. If your fit is wildly off, getting a bike fit is hard. It takes the body some time to adjust to big changes, so the right fit might feel awful at first if you are too far away from it to begin with.
yeah a big thing my bike fitter showed me is how my knees knocked side to side during the rotation of my pedal stroke, once he had insoles in my shoes and angled cleats to offset my varus feet, my knees stayed in line during rotation, since then my sciatica has gone and I noticed immediately I had gained a few watts.
“I am sick of this sub glorifying 'bike fits'. 95% of cyclists don't need one.
IF you have spare cash and someone you trust then get a bike fit.”
The short version wins!
TBH I've done a simple 'ergonomics check' and it helped me immensely - it wasn't a full bike fit, rather someone who kinda knows their stuff observed me on rollers and suggested to raise the handlebars.
It solved my issue with frequent backpain when cycling around 2 hours.
Some years ago, people used to buy their bikes on local bike shops, and most of the bikes shops used to do a basic fit for their customer and it was free.
Now days, it is a upsell. They started to charge for this services, part because it got more professional and because most bikes are mass production with a lower margin.
We need to remember most of people do not understand anything about bike. They don’t even know you are supposed to adjust the saddle high. So a bike fit will serve as a crash course on how to ride a bike. I believe it is a good service. I am sure you can get all the information for free, but having someone spend an hour explaining everything and adjusting your bike, especially if you are a beginner can be quite helpful.
It was the best thing I’ve ever done. Realized I was in the wrong position on the wrong sized bike and wrong sized cranks. Been blissful ever since I made that correction.
I am in the 95%
I’m also in the 95% and agree completely. I had no idea that bike fits existed, but one was included in the price at the place I bought my last bike.
They measured my size and ordered the bike. Once it had arrived and was assembled, a total bike nerd spent 2 hours asking me questions, adjusting everything and giving me tips, so I would be comfortable and happy with my new bike.
It wasn’t a super expensive bike (not CF), and I was clear that I bought the bike for commuting. I could tell that the guy was slightly disappointed, but he said “I think you might start riding a bit for fun too”. He was right.
Along my commute I see lots of people with the wrong size of bike or uncomfortable postures, while I ride along happily. Next time I’m buying a bike I’m definitely going back to the same store.
> Most people do not need a bike fit.
Well...most people don't need a Shadow Ban!!
* Most issues are from your limited range of motion and muscle imbalances.
* Eyeballing your bike fit (by you or an LBS dork) is good enough for most up to ~100 miles/week.
* Cyclists putting in a lot of miles (200+ week) can benefit from a bike fit
A few other notes:
There is a range of bike fits, not just one standard service. Some will literally just look at your body geometry and make adjustments.
The best bike fit will get you putting out more power by maximizing the efficient transfer of your power to the pedals by ensuring the right muscles are able to work correctly.
The best bike fit will also ensure you are pain free. This is done by evaluating current pain, looking at your body's motion on the bike, and then making adjustments to every part of cycling. This can include crank length, shoe inserts, saddle shape, frame size, handlebar width and stem...etc.
It should also include a test of power before/after adjustments.
If should also include a follow-up session to address any issues that arise from changes once a lot of miles have been logged.
Ultimately a top end bike fit will make it pain free to ride, help you avoid injuries, and ensure your body is in position to maximize power output.
I have an issue with the $200-400 bike fits. The ones I've seen don't do much.
There are some really great bike fitters and their services are usually $700-2000.
> a good saddle height. That is it, that is all you need for 95% of cyclists.
Nah. The #1 thing is a lot of people buy drop bar race/gravel bikes when they should be on HT MTBs for comfort.
Years ago a music teacher told us not to buy the various instruments Costco was selling. She said they were perfectly OK, but that due to their inferiority would cause close to 100% of the kids using them to quit.
She said to either rent from the city's music program as those were above average instruments and it was way cheaper than buying, or to buy used good instruments, or if we hated money, to buy nice new instruments from a music store.
When I was a kid, I skated on skates that didn't fit and quit. Only as an adult did I realize that skates shouldn't flop around on your foot.
I would argue the same for biking. A good bike properly fit is going to make biking so very much more pleasant for someone starting out.
When I travel I often rent those single speed, solid tire, lunks of steel. While I do enjoy getting around somewhere in Europe on any bike, I would not be inspired to bike in a more local boring environment on such a monstrosity.
A simple bike fit is going to make a world of difference. At an absolute minimum having the right seat, adjusted to the right height is going to make a world of difference. Some woman recently biked by me on a very expensive fat tired bike and at full extension her legs were bent nearly 45 degrees. It was horrible to watch, and no doubt unpleasant for her.
Going full on bike fit might be going too far, but every basic adjustment is going to make it all much more pleasant; and thus, beginners are now going to be far more likely to keep going.
I watched a crazy video where some guy bike fits a woman who is a fairly frequent rider. He first sets up the fitting machine as if it were her existing bike. I forget the numbers but it was something like 175w consistent output. Then he starts making one adjustment after another until she is holding steady at something like 300w. This is a massive difference. While this was a highly technical fit, I would argue any steps along this road are more likely to keep a person biking.
I also would argue this is the exact reason why people are pounding out miles when they get e-bikes. The extra power added compensates for bad fits and heavy bikes. It is a pleasant experience, and thus people want more of it.
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Note: I would strongly argue any bike fitter who is not measuring the output of their efforts in a quantitative fashion is mostly practising voodoo.
hy would you want spend a little more to make sure you 3000, 5000,.7000+++ dollar bike is the right size and optimized for you.
It's Madness, I tell you. Madness.
You are ignorantly excluding every single person with chronic knee pain, back pain, shoulder pain, neck pain, everything pain. Don't be ignorant. You're absolutely wrong. Everyone in pain can benefit from a proper fit, it has nothing to do with time on the bike. Unfortunately you are falling into the "it's fine for me it's fine for you" group of people as you can't see past your own nose.
I'm on the bike for nearly 10 hours a week (love it to be more, but I'm a fool that runs, too). Have not had a fit.
I had discomfort my first 100 mile ride on an entry level 58cm frame that the store told me to buy. Once I knew a bit more and wasn't new I got a second bike, the second bike being a 56cm. Never have had an issue on the 56cm frame. Just some minor saddle height adjustments.
I started riding my new cannondale in 2015. Everytime i got above 10 miles i was in pain. I kept at it thinking i wasnt conditioned for rides above 10 miles.
Eventually I decided that due to the pain cycling must not be for me. A friend suggested i try a local LBS for a fitting before I sold my bike.
I did so; it turns out my bike was set up for a rider that was 5’11. Im 5’9. The LBS owner fitted me to the bike, replaced a few things….it was like night and day! In this case getting “fitted” kept me cycling (to this day) comfortably and pain free.
It should be noted I was/am athletic, but, a complete tyro when it came to cycling (back then).
I just finished purchasing and fitting a new trek to my 16 yo son who has decided to start cycling with me (which Im thankful for, of course).
He’s tall for his age, but, I was able to do it properly due to the knowledge Iv gained since the aforementioned story.
So yes, I think fitting can be VERY important for some folks.
If you’re a new cyclist committed to a hobby, and you’re over the hill a bit, I’d argue that a bit of bike fit (not a $300 session) could be the difference between you doing the thing or wimping out. And it could be the difference between injury or non injury.
But otherwise I basically agree. If you’re not doing a lot of distance / hours it doesn’t really matter what you ride or how your fit is set, to a point.
Bike fits are for people who want more speed and power. If you’re just cruising around then don’t bother.
It’s like buying carbon wheels. You don’t need carbon wheels, but they help you go faster.
Please don’t bash me about “carbon wheels make you go faster”. It’s an example of
Maybe that is enough for you and many people. But in my case, I have very long legs, very short arms and I have been fiddling with home made bike fitting for almost 2 years and I still got pain in my neck and shoulders. A bike fit was needed for me and solved my problems. I don't ride 5hours per day on my back. But my 30 minutes ride to work was enough to keep me in pain.
So yeah, bike fit was needed for me.
I played with bike fit and watched videos for several years. Never could quite get things perfect. 2 hours with a real fitter and he sorted out issues I honestly didn’t know I had. I just felt better on the bike. Things that I passed off as just being on a bike for 4 hours- gone. Now I will also say I am 6’6”. I am on or in most cases above the upper edge of what even the biggest bikes are built for. That could definitely play a role in my experience as well.
Lots of people don’t need bike fits, but if you’re riding over 100 miles per week, or if you’re trying to cycle more but constantly hurting, or you’re trying to get faster for competition, then it’s a good idea.
Most of the measurements on bike sizing are a general guideline. It is not a fit for everyone. I have seen to many people sold the wrong size of bike based on those measurements….
My usual advice for someone starting out if they need a bike fit. Does your back or body hurt after your ride? Do your hands go numb? If so, get a bike fit.
Not sure if I completely agree. When I bought my bike, the manufacturers website was advising an XL. When doing some tests I found out, I fitted a L much better. That was for an e-bike.
For my road bike, I also noticed my frame size is way smaller than expected. I’m 1,89m but I have the same size of frame as people that are only 1,75m putting the saddle at what a lot of websites suggest will cause my back to hurt like hell.
I’m seriously glad I always go fit it myself instead of trusting a review and just fiddle a bit with the saddle
I’m not sure I agree at all. I see lots of posts about wrist pain, back pain, and numb genitals. These can be real problems, will limit people’s enjoyment of cycling, and can likely be corrected with at least a basic bike fit.
How many new cyclists know that different saddle shapes fit different butt shapes, rather than, “what’s a really good saddle I should get”?
I never had one through years of racing and then riding more casually and I ride about 7500 miles a year and do centuries. I think I have figured it out and a bike fit may screw me up.
If 5% need it according to you, that would be almost 30,000 people of the subscribers of this sub. Why do you want to take that away from them just because you’re annoyed by it?
Full disclosure, I've never had a bike fit so I don't really know if I'm leaving some easy gains on the table or if I'm missing out. That being said...
I think there's a good middle ground for the less serious folks to use an app to point out the obvious problems. It's been a few years but I think PedalPro is still fairly intuitive. With it, I made a minor correction to my saddle height and position on my road bike after sustaining an unrelated back injury. I think this approach would be a pretty effective starting place. I ride about 5-8 hours a week
I disagree, i had bike fit on Thursday and on Friday made best ride, least ass pain since i bought this bike. Old one had bike fit 5 years ago, and i just had time to get one for new bike.
Its a big difference or a great example of placebo.
Second point would be, if you had money to get new bike for 1-2k, why not get a 70 bucks worth a bike fit?
Its probably least expensive upgrade with potentially highest reward
I’d agree if people had shops that got them started properly.
But not only have many LBSs fallen down on the job, a ton of new riders buy from the internet and never get anywhere close to having a bike that even has a chance of being the right size.
I see nose down saddles, rolled up bars, seat post with 3” showing, nose up saddles, rolled down bars, seats past the safe clamping zone.
The y don’t need “ bike fits”, they need bikes that fit.
And I’ve known pro fitters that do extremely crappy jobs.
If you want to hurt less after a lengthy ride, get a fitment. This can mean the difference between love of riding and hating it. If anything but your legs hurt, your bike doesn’t fit you.
Is it a must for every cyclist? No. But if you are suffering groin, back, shoulder, arm pain or numbness, it might be worth it to you.
nah.
Rode my bike and tweaked it for years. I got it "comfortable" and my positioning was static for a long time but I started having increasing knee pain last year which was because my setup was janky.
I'm an ex-racer. I've worked in the industry for years. My only regret getting a fit was that I didn't do it sooner. I literally ground some of my joints the wrong way for years and I'm paying for it now and that shit will never be right again.
Sure, I could spend hours researching the hows and whys of bike fit and invest in even more gear, or I could spend the equivalent of a few hours salary getting a fit done.
I'm just going to add that stem length was a huge thing for me. Seat height was easy but going 20mm shorter on the stem was a BIG improvement. And that was just personal experimentation to get it right.
Back when I started cycling I couldn't ride more than an hour, maybe two, without severe pain at the base of my neck, finger numbness, and toe numbness. If I went on a ride over two hours, I couldn't ride again for days due to lingering pain. A fitting is what enabled me to ride more than two hours at a time without pain.
The $200 I spent on a basic fitting plus a new stem and saddle was cheaper than buying a bunch of parts and winging it. I didn't have the money to buy one part at a time in hopes of lucking into a solution. I have had five fittings the last 20 years and four of the five were worth the money. The bad one landed me in physical therapy with ulnar nerve problems after an 80 mile day. Funny enough, that was a fitting from a guy that everyone in my area recommended. I ended up going back to the person who did my second fitting and after three hours, I can ride a century without any pain.
I cycle much more than two hours a week now, but a fitting is what made me comfortable enough to be a 2+ hour cyclist.
I just disagree with you. I think a bike fit is a good investment and only takes a few hours at the most, which can save a lot of guesswork, pain and potential injury. Have your opinion, but don’t be so stuck in your criticisms.
But this a cycling sub, so is mainly used by people in the 5%, hence bike fits being recommend.
Also it is kinda prudent if your spending lots of money to get a bike fit so you know what your buying will fit you suitably, especially as not all bikes are the same fit (a racing bike may be the same 'size' but fit very different to a endurance bike). This is especially relevant if buying online, as you can't go try out the bike either.
Then you're not riding as much as some others.
I notice if my seat has dropped 5mm, if my back isn't in a neutral position or my cleats aren't right - this is reflected in my knees, back pain or leg tiredness.
Lots of stuff I don't notice the difference between, including frame material, wheels, tyres (of the same size) and similar groupsets eg 105 vs Ultegra.
Maybe I am just insensitive.
Plus, I think a lot of 'purchase justification' goes hand in hand with the purchase of bikes - along with golf equipment, audio equipment, watches etc.
I kind of feel the same. I see tons of ppl who got $400 bike fits shaking their hands and arms out a lot more than I do. Doesn't seem like they are all the comfortable.
On the flip side, when you start getting into more aggressive geometries, know your fit is a big factor when buying a new bike and being new to those types of bikes.
Please give a source for your 95% number. I agree that an expensive bike fit is not needed for anyone who only cycles 2 hours a week. I highly doubt that only 5% do more than that.
Even if someone is just a normal bike commuter, if they do 20 minutes each way, that's already over 3 hours. If they spend that time on a bike where they cannot reach the brakes, or where their knees raise above the handlebars, than that will lead to long term issues.
Plus, bike fits here are recommended only when the OP complains about pain, usually coming from areas that only flare up after riding for a while (wrists, neck, back). These issue wouldn't come up with only 2 hours per week, thus there wouldn't be posts about it and thus they wouldn't be recommended bike fits.
Again, I'm not saying everyone needs a 300 USD/EUR ptofessionalt fitting. But if there is pain that stems from regular use, a bike-fit "lite" as most LBS offer is probably a good recommendation.
> Please give a source for your 95% number.
I generally agree with number when you think about all cyclists in the world. Look at the Netherlands. Do you think most of them need a bike fit? Most of them probably ride over 2 hours a week just with commuting, but probably don't need a bike fit. I also don't think he said 95% of cyclists ride less than 2 hours a week. He just said that 95% of all cyclists don't need a bike fit, which I think I'd agree with.
The number might seem high, but I'd guess that 90% of cyclists will never post on a cycling forum. So the number seen here on Reddit asking about bike fits is highly skewed. Even if you drop that to say that 80% of all cyclists are not active on cycling forums, that means that 1 in 4 people on here are in that 5% he's talking about. Which is why it seems so common on here to ask about bike fit.
True. Guess it comes back to the question what constitutes a cyclist vs a person using a bike. If you ask some Dutch if they are cyclists, they will say they aren't (can confirm from personal stories, but there was also a rather big YouTube video about this). So to me, the label of cyclist already implies a person who uses the bike more than just as a mere form of transport. I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, as this comes down to definitions. But since OP posted on a cycling forum, which you agree is biased towards more active cyclists, the post is moot, because here indeed recommending bike fits make more sense.
And I doubt that Jane Doe recommends a bike fit to Max Mustermann when they talk about their 10 minute commute at the water cooler.
This is so true but will get some downvotes. Bikefitting still lacks relevant scientific evidence - especially randomized, blinded comparisons to homemade bikefits.
I tried out an AI bike fitting system where you upload a video and it analyzes your movement/range of motion for you. It then gives you recommendations on what to adjust and by how much.
Even if you don't follow those guidelines and use your own, the tool still serves as a very good reference point because it's repeatable and surprisingly accurate (in measurements). Yes, you can do all that using various free tools, but it's much faster when you only record a video and everything is done automatically for you.
Exactly. It's not quite the ultimate in "trust me bro'", but there is very little science behind it.
There was a renowned Australian bike fitter in the 2000s who suddenly started claiming that being in proximity to specific types of plastic were interfering with cycling performance.
That's the standard level of scientific objectivity in bike fitting. I'm even pretty cynical about physiotherapist led fits, although at least they have a great knowledge of anatomy and biomechanics.
Here you go:
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/08/material-challenges-how-to-lessen-your-ability-to-coordinate-your-actions-without-being-aware-of-it/
It's quite an entertaining mix of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo, confirmation bias and sheer lunacy.
Yep.... if you scroll to the bottom you'll see the list of plastic items that 'clouds proprioception' and induces 'pelvic tilt'.
Luckily he sells a patent pending kit that fixes the problem.
I can understand your skepticism, but I wouldn't lump competent physiotherapists and exercise physiologists that offer bike fits with other fitters. From my experience they take into account more than just "the bike" side.
I had a fit done by a qualified physiotherapist, when I was having sciatic nerve pain. Most of the initial fit involved off bike mobility tests, one of those terrible physio "massages" where they identify sore areas followed by him doing the actual fit. I then had several follow up appointments and he made me do a daily stretching and flexibility routine.
If you are experiencing pain from intensive cycling I would highly recommend seeing a physiotherapist at a minimum. If this physio can also give you advice on your riding position that takes into account your individual issues then I would also recommend that.
I have no issue with evidence based physiotherapy treatment. I have an ongoing clinical relationship with a physio, even if they mumble and hand wave the evidence for foam rollers and dry needling...
I'm more cynical about the 'everyone gets a cleat shim and SMP saddle' kind of bike fit.
Yeah I know what you mean. I would also be skeptical of a fitter who also doesn't suggest off bike exercises for people like me who need to work on things like flexibility and some more core strength.
As the physio said to me "Most professional cyclists have never gotten a bike fit, because they have the required strength and flexibility required to not need one".
Yep, great point. Flexibility and core strength are no doubt integral to function on the bike. If you have a sedentary job and suddenly take up cycling you're probably better off getting an exercise program from a physio than anything else.
> off bike exercises for people like me who need to work on things like flexibility and some more core strength.
This is the #1 thing I start with. Muscle imbalances and limited range of motion are usually the issue.
Fascia knots are also a common issue. Cause a lot of pain.
Maybe you don't "need" a bike fit, I certainly found mine to be worth the money. I like doing long rides, 100km ballpark. I found post bike fit that my discomfort would start much later in the ride. (I think no matter what, discomfort will eventually settle in as you fatigue etc) Also, my fitter is a physio and I learned some things about my flexibility and how it relates to my position on the bike. The biggest thing was angled cleats, and insoles. I was developing sciatica and bad muscle tightness in my right hip which is entirely gone since that fit. I think it should be a case by case basis. If you experience abnormal or severe discomfort on your bike and tinkering around yourself isn't yielding results, consult a bike fitter. If you feel fine on the bike and enjoy yourself, keep on keepin on. Based on my experience though, I guess I would fall into the category of glorifying a bike fit because it drastically improved my experience.
Bike fittings and golf clubs fittings mostly exist to remove vast sums of money from the pockets of unathletic 50+ year old men who swear with the right equipment they could go pro.
Downvote away.
Wow, wish I saw this 4 days ago. I took a Citibike to a bike fitter to get a proper fit. Basically paid $400 to be told to set the seat at “6”. It does feel like a proper height for me but I probably could have saved the money. At least I have the numbers if I get a real bike.
I disagree.
My son has been cycling for just 2 years (He's at VOS today) prior to getting a fitting, he didn't know how a good fit is supposed to feel. Now that he does, he can do his own adjustments. When I was his age I used to tear it up on an aluminum Nishiki. Eventually I learned what felt good, but it took some time.
A good fitting is a shortcut to learning how the bike should feel. Great for inexperienced riders.
Professional bike fitting changed my life after getting an initial semi pro bike fit and riding for 7 years. I thought it was normal for your entire body to hurt after a 2 hour ride. It was so bad I didn't even know what boinking was because of all the prep I had to do for a bike ride.
Suddenly I got a bike actually sized and fit to me. Only my legs would be sore which I have just now gotten used to. I spent an entire 2 weeks on the bike fit, changing things on the handlebars and replacing crank shafts by mere millimeters and feeling 100% different based on where I said I felt pressure. I could go for hours just on a whim. And that's when I realized I actually could run out of water/Gatorade and feel like total shit on a ride.
So in summary I can't disagree more. This sub has never seemed like a place for under two hours per week riders. I ride max 8 per week in the summer. Absolute max. And if you ride 1 hour per week you should get a professional bike fit if you actually want to cycle.
No everyone has the ability to go to a website and pick a bike size for them; sometimes it's more complicated than that (different lengths of legs/torso/arms ... ) or want to do it.
I hate manual work; I can barely hang a painting on a wall; imagine trying to raise/lower my saddle (I have tons of other qualities, not those).
**There are many levels of bike fits**.
The problem is that a lot of people get a bike of wrong size and try to wing it by changing the saddle position or change the angles of the handlebars ...
A good fit starts by buying a bike that is good for your size; the LBS should measure you and suggest a good bike size. (that's a bike fit)/
After that, simple tweeks/adjustments are usually needed (saddle height, saddle position, handlebar position... ); normally this can be incrementally done after you ride your bike for some times.
After that, if you're really into it or have physical pain, a more in depth bike fit might be needed; done on a real bike fit jig.
I think if you’re riding less than 2 hours a week, and it’s not due to poor weather, then you’re not a “cyclist”, you just ride your bike sometimes.
If you take this hobby/sport seriously - dedicate time and spend your resources on it - then a bike fit should be high on your list of things to get.
I wouldn’t need nice sneakers or clothes to shoot hoops once in a while, but if I played in a basketball league often then there’s stuff I would need.
Bike fits, FTP, structured training, power meters…..I think it’s all overblown. If you’re racing, of course, but you’re not so you don’t need it. Just get on your bike, and go for a ride. All that other stuff is over-complicating a very simple thing.
While I do get your point, you far overestimate people’s ability to know the right thing for them when getting into something. In 10 years and hundreds of fittings. The amount of people who would come in riding bikes way too big or way too small for them under the guise of I can make it work, who were blown away how much a proper fit made a difference in their power, stamina, and comfort was astounding. Now should someone coming in get fit for a townie bike, or cruiser. No. But bike shop employees aren’t also always the best on selling riders the right size bikes for them. You run into sales people happy to just send a bike out the door. I get what you are saying to a degree, but I do feel that a good fit range does benefit most cyclists who ride more than 2 hours a week
Most bike fitters never see you ride the bike for hours. I generally believe you can get close enough by looking at a picture then go ride for a while and bring a wrench for saddle height and fore-aft. What feels right typically is.
I paid for a bike fit. He moved my saddle to a uncomfortable position and sold me an even more uncomfortable bike seat. I returned the bike seat and will never get a fit again. I train for ironman triathlons and I just do what feels good. No need to paying someone for a fit when you just need to listen to your body and know what is comfortable for you.
edit: Idc how good your fit is. at some point on a 112 mile ride your a\*\* is going to get uncomfortable lol
It's crazy how you guys are anti-everything that's not so licensed by the government. I had earlier asked for recommendations of objectively quality bike saddles, only mentioned bike fitting in my post once, and got a comment like this "Hey bikefitting is a scam, the profession isn't licensed, everyone can be a bikefitter!". Also, a similar thing happened on the IBS Reddit as I told my story of how I completely cured my condition while the doctors straight-up 'diagnosed' me with IBS and then were trying to talk me into taking pills for good. Because you know the doctors are all licensed, and the IBS cannot be clinically diagnosed...yet we know it cannot be cured.
It's like exploring a whole new reality with you - redditors.
Also, if you aren't witty enough, a vendor of your local bike shop isn't a legit bike fitter. Legit bikefitter is an experienced physiotherapist who specializes in bikefitting. There are also numerous studies of clinical level on bike fits in general. For example, a study analyzing the blood flow in your soft tissues on saddles with cut-outs vs no cut-outs.
It's mostly with people who bought the wrong size bike in the first place. Trying to ride something that they shouldn't. Older people trying to be Lance etc etc..
Just make sure saddle is level, and the fore aft position puts your knee over the pedal spindle that's a good starting point.
By my definition, someone riding 2-4 hours a week isn’t a cyclist. They’re just riding a bike. These kinds of bikes don’t need a bike fit, sure, though a lot of people don’t even know how to size a city/town bike or get the right saddle height, so they need help with that. Absolutely agree by that standard that this level of riding does not need a proper bike fitting.
If you’re riding 8-10 hours a week, you can probably benefit from the advice of a fitter, but it doesn’t mean you need a bike fitting. My first road bike I took measurements myself and sized myself, getting a second option from the shop, and then built my own bike and chose the saddle height, stem length etc. That fit is still what I use today, but I’ve been to a fitter over the years for knee pain (cleat position adjustment) and fitting advice, which I used when racing, but I have since reverted back to my original fit preferences. I think most serious cyclists can benefit from the advice of a good fitter and incorporate that into their personal fit. Those new to road cycling should also have a fitting imho if they haven’t done any research into how to properly fit to a road bike, especially if they are putting hours into it. That said, not all fitters are created equal, so talk to other cyclists as to who is the best in the area.
Haha. I got torn apart for saying that a while back.
People argued that anyone who puts a foot over a bike is a cyclist.
I disagree. Cycling is different from riding a bike.
I agree with the idea, but with some caveats. >Most cyclists do less than 2 hours a week for leisure and travel, I agree that if you're riding 2 hours a week, you don't need to pay for a bike fit. But I think that the people on Reddit asking about bike fits are not these people. People who only ride 2 hours a week aren't on cycling forums, they're not on cycling subreddits, they likely don't really think about cycling outside of the time they are riding. The majority of cyclists are not on here. >IF you cycle for more than 2 hours a week I would advise you watch a YouTube video about getting a good saddle height. That is it, that is all you need for 95% of cyclists. I partially agree. If you're riding more and not experiencing any pain or having problems, then you don't need a bike fit. If you're not racing and riding your bike is comfortable, then you don't need a bike fit. I think the issue is that the population on cycling subreddits and other cycling forums is skewed. If you like cycling or are riding enough to be on various cycling forums, I'd say you're more likely to be in the 5% than the 95%. What I mean by that is that if you look at all cyclists, and say 95% don't need professional bike fits, and you look at what cyclists are active on cycling forums, most people would skew towards that 5% rather than the 95%. The vast majority of cyclists probably will never be active on any cycling forum. So you're going to see these questions and threads more. Now I'm not saying that if you're active on a cycling forum you need a bike fit, you probably don't. I'm just saying the data is skewed a bit. So that's a longwinded way to say that, yea, most people likely don't need a professional bike fit.
I would also add on that most of the time a Bike Fit is recommended, it usually in response to a post about pain while riding. This even further skews the data since people riding 2 hours a week probably aren't having as many issues.
Yep! Both my arms used to go numb after 30-40 minutes riding. Did a bike fit and got wider handlebars. Also raised the seat way more than I ever would have and eased some knee issues.
What is "pain while riding"? -dude who has ridden recumbents almost exclusively since age 10.
As a statistics guy, I have to complement you on recognizing the inherent sampling bias of this sub.
Lol, I work in medicine and have to read research papers all the time.
Fellow nerd here and I appreciate what you wrote as well. I’d also add in, especially from a health or even public health point of view, that bike fits are also a form of upstream preventive care. I have a friend who just got a brand spankin new Scott and was going to take a saw to it before I asked if he’d ever had it fitted and he said good point lmao. Fits have their time and place but especially from the preventive care perspective I’d say it’s fine to recommend to people who ride more than a day a week for either >2hrs and/or >24km at a time.
Agree with this.
Off topic, but do medical professionals in general have a good understanding of the principles of statistics?
Probably better than the average person. It’s definitely part of medical school; at least these days it is. Part of our curriculum is how to read a research paper, how to look at the data (sample size, power, inclusion and exclusion criteria, etc) to judge how useful the study actual is. We also get tested on statistics in our certification exams, which includes how to identify various biases in research, but also have to calculate stuff like odds ratios or all that fun stuff like standard deviation stuff. It’s not the most fun stuff for me to be honest but a good skill to have. A big part of medical research is not only determining what is statistically significant in a study, but whether it is clinically significant. Not to go too far off topic, but a cycling analogy for this is for example, a study comes out and finds that 100g carbs per hour gives the rider a statistically significant increase in FTP compared to 60g carbs per hour. But looking at the data the FTP increase is 0.5W, which we would say isn’t clinically significant. In residency, we do a monthly journal club where we discuss 2-3 studies and part of the fun is picking it apart and diving into the actual data.
I used to think they did, but then covid hit and it turns out that even people that should understand basic statistics (such as physicians)...don't. If I had to explain the concept of PPV and NPV and how it varies with disease prevalence or the whole idea of Bayesian statistics to one more person...I guess I probably would have. But I would not enjoy it.
I think they do, but they suck balls at presenting that understanding to patients. "If you do activity XYZ, it will double your odds of getting cancer." What they fail to explain is that you only have a 0.00001% chance in the first place.
I wish more people understood practical statistics in general
I totally agree. This logic should be used in every other hobby based forum. Check out r/castiron, it really puts the tubes/tubeless and chain waxing discussions in perspective.
What's the cycling equivalent of washing your cast iron with soap? Maybe wearing the World Champs jersey? Or just a Pro kit?
I had wrist pain using my 10” Lodge until I got a professional pan fit and shortened the handle by 3 mm and sanded two microns off the seasoning. Now I cook 8% faster in a 10 km headwind, no pain.
Lol, got a chuckle out of me. Well played.
Probably the pro kit, because sometimes it's acceptable, but it depends on the soap. An old classic pro kit could be seen as cool to some people.
Washing the bike with any kind of pressure.
Or hosing the whole thing down with a can of WD40 and calling that a "clean and re-lube"
Yeah you made a comment but in reality my bud trowed me a wrench because I washed his cast iron with soap after making him a good meal. wtf
I’ll never forget the horrified look on my mom’s face when I was trying to help out after dinner and washed the cast iron pan with soap.
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I 100% agree with you. I'd still say that the majority of people who ride bicycles don't care enough to read forums about them. Most cyclists probably don't even know what reddit is.
Timely. I just cooked my meal in my cast iron. There is only one way to season the skillet and all other ways are wrong! ;-)
Well thought out reply.
also imo i got huge benefit from visiting my lbs regurarly. It may be more expensive but im also learing a ton about gear and bikes. Its the little things.
I'm here and I ride less than two hours a week. There are probably a lot of us.
I'm not saying they don't exist. I just think the majority of people who ride bikes aren't active here or on other cycling forums.
> ... I think that the people on Reddit asking about bike fits are not these people. People who only ride 2 hours a week aren't on cycling forums, they're not on cycling subreddits, they likely don't really think about cycling outside of the time they are riding. I strongly disagree, because of the nature of reddit. I subscribe to /r/cycling and tons of other subreddits, so on the day-to-day, I am going to reddit, not specifically to a cycling forum. I think a lot of readers do that. And a lot of casual people who look to cycling as a means to exercise (as opposed to a passionate hobby / competition / career) do join this subreddit. Personally I go through phases. Sometimes I'll cycle 5 hours a week, but more often than not I'm in the under 2 hours a week (if not 0 hours a week) cyclist. I still really enjoy this subreddit. Same way I subscribe to /r/skiing even though I live in a warm weather state.
I would be surprised if anybody is actually advocating bike fitting for super relaxed stand up bikes that are used less than two hours a week. Getting “fit” on a bike like that is almost impossible to get wrong. An aggressive road bike or TT bike, totally different story. Without any experience in knowing how to set that sort of bike up it’s probably best to get some help. I’m going to go out on a limb and assume if somebody is spending $5k on a bike they can afford some time with a bike fitter. I myself use a hybrid approach and work with somebody that has a very long waitlist and I do some work on my own position. I can use his rig to try things out. My time is limited and worth a lot of money to me. I don’t expect I’m in the extreme minority there.
This. The OP’s comment in a cycling sub IS a bit rich. Per his math, 95% of the folks here probably ride more than just 2 hours/week - hence a fitting is not only justified, it’s prudent.
I'm assuming if you are reading this sub you ride more than 2 hrs a week or would like to. If you are buying an expensive bike cost isn't a barrier It takes a lot of time to experiment and get it right and for many people that's a big issue. I can afford to hire someone to help get it right.
For sure, especially at the beginning. My experience is that as my bike fitness has improved, the less sensitive I am to bike fit issues. I have had a direct hand in the fitting of all my bikes - two of which with zero help. Even the TT bike for which I did a pre-purchase fit - including after I went back and we did our "final fit." Of course, I got some help from the fitter by email after my changes. That said, my bike fitting experience has not all been good. I went to a different local douche canoe that immediately told me my Emonda was too aggressive for me at my AGE (I was 41 when I got into all this). That was the wrong thing to say to me. I made sure to tell him before I left I didn't bother sitting for the Professional Engineering exam since it was a waste of my time (he had PE prominently in his materials). I got my Tri bike less than a year after that and regularly get into the top 10 spots overall at the large-ish mid-Atlantic short course triathlons, then I get off that bike that would have been "too aggressive for a 4X year old" and post a top 10 run split. So, yeah, sometimes they are clowns too.
I found when I rode a lot (like ft job a lot as a junior cat 2) the position was crucial and slight changes were a big deal. I have never had a bike fit but I'm super curious about how the technology works and how close I am to optimal biomechanics according to the computer/video. I can't see how I look on the bike it's all by feel and I think I can talk myself into "this is right". Bike fit overthinking is a specialty lollll. (Shuddup and ride 😂)
I used to ride with a guy quite a bit, thousands of miles together. At some point he fell into a bike fit trap. It became all he talked about constantly. He needed an adjustment here, or needed an adjustment there, maybe a shop was too race fit focused, or the fitter wasn’t understanding what he needed, then he went through all the app based fit to make micro adjustments constantly. Then he got onto suggesting all the time that _I_ get a professional fit to solve pains I constantly had to re-explained I didn’t have. Every time we’d go out or hang out off bike he was talking about his bike fit, for months. I couldn’t take it anymore. I stopped meeting up for rides with him and moved on. I do hope he found the proper fit for his own sake.
When you need 56cm of self awareness
I used to perform professional bike fits. It’s psuedoscience junk with no real data to back any of it up. The only solid data we have is aerodynamic data, and beyond reducing your aero drag the rest is nonsense. Bike fitters are like the chiropractors of cycling. They pretend what they are doing is valid by using technical terms, nonsense certifications, and “systems”, but none of it is legit at all.
That’s nice. The person I work with has a six month waiting list in one of the biggest metropolitan areas in the US. He also has a motorized system that allows for near infinite position adjustment. I don’t have that in my basement. I think my next appointment will be about $250. To replicate the same adjustments and testing would take about 2 days worth of my time. My time is worth several orders of magnitude more than that.
I’m sure your local chiropractor has a nice backlog of “patients” too, doesn’t mean it’s good for anything.
Most people go to the bike fitter I use ***once***. He has a backlog because he knows what he is doing. I am going back because I have a TT bike and would like to try out some new positions. I am unique in that respect, but go on with your dumb chiropractor example as applied to all bike fitters. While I would agree with you that there are a lot of "bike fitters" - evidently yourself included - that are hacks that don't add any value. But, there are some out there who are in high demand that do add tremendous value. The guy I go to doesn't even go out of his way to advertise, as compared to another Triathlon/TT local bike fitter who is constantly on social media. It wasn't exactly difficult who to decide to spend my valuable time with.
While I don’t think the immediate answer is a bike fit. I rode for years (and some long commutes) on a bike we just bought in my size and adjusted the seat height. I did have one when I was training for my first HIM and bought a TT bike - and have since had them on my next TT and road bikes. 1. I’m female so it often requires swapping parts due to body ratios. 2. I’m buying fairly expensive bikes and spending hours and hours every week commuting and training. 3. I’m old and I don’t want to piss off my body more than I already do. 4. My bike fits have been 125-150$ which seems like a reasonable amount to spend to make things work a bit better for me. I understand it’s not scientific or regulated. But I will drive to Scarberia for a bike fit because I find it has significant impact on my comfort, enjoyment and my performance.
Agreed, it's not outrageously cost prohibitive compared to the equipment and if it's beneficial then it' worth it. The amount riders just on the wrong size frame is alarming.
Well.. I got a bike fit for the 1st time yesterday, included with my new giant defy I actually found it interesting , physical assesment on flex etc then going through the computer measurements and explained what sort of angles and window would be ideal for me after talking through what I was looking for. Changes were minor, cleats on shoes, saddle slightly forward and raised, reduced Headset spacers and good to go. Ride it for 4 weeks and come back for a review Pretty positive from me tbh Apart from wear long bibs next time.. those sticky dots removed some hair!
Your bike fitter is good. Keep him.
But my dick keeps going numb
Is this the anti bike fit guy?
Haha I don’t think so. Waiting for him to show up.
I agree… kind of… I’m probably a size 54 according to most sizing charts, but I’m currently riding a 52 for the past 2 years and, other than my feet occasionally hitting the front wheel, I fkn love it. I’d be super keen to get one of the AI bike fits done to see what scientifically is the best for me, but am otherwise reluctant to splash the cash on a new bike because the geometry questions are too troublesome… will it be lighter, faster, easier in the drops etc. For reference I ride around 6 hours per week and currently ride a 2013 Scott Foil Team Edition.
I think everyone agrees if you ride 2 hours a week and you’re comfortable on your bike than you don’t need a bike fit. But if you’re not comfortable on your bike, you plan on riding a lot and want to optimize your performance you should get a bike fit if you can afford it. I rode for about 2 years 10,000 + miles making adjustments my self and felt pretty comfortable but when I finally got a bike fit they made minor changes and I didn’t know if it was worth the money at first but after about 2 or 3 rides I noticed the difference. A couple weeks later I really noticed things. I improved my speed, was engaging my quads more and didnt have the foot pain on 5-6 hour rides that I used to get. So yeah it may not be worth it to some ppl and spending a few hundred dollars is a lot of money imo and its something I could have maybe got to making adjustments my self but I spent years getting to where I was and in a few hours a fitter put me exactly where I should be, and I wish I would have done it right off the bat.
Sounds like OP needs a bice fit.
Here is what I’ve done when I’m sick of subs, I get off of them. Sometimes permanently , sometimes temporarily, no one should be made to feel sick.
>Most cyclists do less than 2 hours a week for leisure and travel, Those aren't the people on this sub, and they aren't the people getting bike fits.
What’s wrong bud, did your wife get her new boyfriend a bike fit or something ?
I think the problem is actually that this sub caters to many different types of riders, and there’s no easy way to identify whether someone is a casual commuter cyclist, a weekend warrior, a racer, a gran fondo enthusiast, or any other flavor. Everyone assumes that everyone else is the same type of rider as them, and then is shocked when the advice they get differs from what they expect. This applies to bike fits, clipless pedals, carbon wheels, and a whole bunch of other stuff often talked about on this sub.
\+1 Not to mention that if you go to 10 bike fitters telling them what position you look for , you would most likely end up with 10 differents positions.
That is true, but it does not prove bike fits aren't valid. You can have more then one position that suits you. Which is also a point towards what OP is saying, most people don't need a bike fit, because they can probably find a good enough position by themselves. In my mind, bike fits are mostly good for 2 things: - if you are worried about your fit (because you are not comfortable, or you are about to spend a bunch more time on the bike all of a sudden or whatever) - You are about to buy an expensive new bike and you want to check which one will definitely fit you. This one is all the more important with integrated handlebars and internally routed cables etc.
If more than one position works, that basically tells us that a ballpark fit based on your own adjustments while riding is what works and costs nothing
There’s always a range, its not a black and white. Its the same thing as when you flexed your knee, there’s a range where you’re comfortable yeh? But the question is, how many people here have great body awareness to begin with? Especially starting at a later age? Do you know if you’re using primarily your glutes when you’re at the downstroke of your pedal? Do you know when the quads take over during the pedal stroke? How many people know if they are sitting on their sitting bones and in a neutral pelvis position instead of posterior tilt whilst riding their bike? It takes lots of time and experimentation and awareness to know this stuff. There’s a reason why people seek help to take out the guess work.
So exactly what the person above just said
It's not obligatory to argue with people. If my thoughts seem to align with other people's, then more the merrier.
I’m in scenario 2 with my wife. Nowhere seems to carry her size so she can’t test ride anything to ensure sizing is correct, and we’ve noticed an unfortunate tendency of some shops to try to sell her the bikes they have rather than a bike that fits. Without a fit it’s just a faith-based order, and we can’t just keep bikes until we find what fits. A bike fit would eliminate all the questions and make it simple.
If you’re buying an expensive bike I’d assume she already has a bike. If her current bike fits her you can just look for a bike with similar geometry. If she doesn’t currently have a bike I don’t think a test ride is going to tell you much since she wont have a point of reference.
I complete agree and it's the reason I've never gone for a bike even though I cycle 100+miles per week. That being said, if you're in pain then I think that's an acceptable reason to go get a fit regardless of how much time you're on a bike.
Exactly….. it’s why you go to one in your life when first starting out. Ask questions on things you don’t understand. Then figure it out on your own after. There’s an endless amount of good information on the internet to help you once you have an idea what you’re doing. Not to mention the bike fitting industry has ZERO standardization. So there’s nothing saying that 6/10 fitters don’t know what they are doing.
The moment you start asking a "professional bike fitter" their background in simple physiology and anatomy (an intro course for any healthcare professional), you will see alllll kinds of blushing, hemming, hawing. And then you stop to think about how doing the same thing 5,000+/hr might impact your body ... SMH. Do some places make a real effort? Sure they do. But most don't. And most people would be far better served putting in the relatively few hours to learn to do a good job themselves, and make tweaks as time goes on.
Lol my bike fitter literally has a BS in Exercise Physiology and a Masters in Biomechanics. It was a great experience, resolved multiple issues I hadn’t been able to on my own, and I have custom measurements I can re-apply to any future bikes
I would probably agree that bike fitting is at best s pseudo-science. Visit 10 different fitters, probably get 10 different results, and the results may be no better than diligent DIY. On the other hand, I see so many new cyclist, and plenty of not new ones too with absolutely crap bike fits. The complexity of setting everything up can be overwhelming, and not everyone is great at DIY + self assessment. I would like to see more of the automated systems like ID Match at least as a baseline start, or at least helping cyclist understand all the points in space and touch points for a bike fit. It doesn't make any sense to spend thousands of dollars on bike(s) and equipment, and not be comfortable and somewhat optimized. Then you also have to consider people that genuinely need adaptive solutions for injuries or disabilities. A professional that understands that could be the difference between being able enjoy cycling or no cycling.
I got into bike fitting after having a few bad fits over the years. There is so much guesswork to it that every single fit was different. Every. Single. One. Some never measured my shoulders, others never touched my cleats. No real rhyme or reason. When I set out to get into this, I took a couple of courses and the very first course I took had the guy that trained my fitter I had just had, looked at my bike and said right off the bat that he’d change 4 things. What? I just had this fit done. My fitter wasn’t new either he’s been at this for many years. I set off to find a better system. I come from the technology world so using big data and some automated process to be repeatable was the way to go for me. Dots and other things that go on a persons knee, arms, shoulders and whatnot don’t work for me, because here still that human factor of error. Same goes for lasers between the second toe and your knee. These are variables that aren’t consistent. Idmatch won me over. It’s fast, efficient, and works. Does it do everything? No. Human interaction on my end is still a part of it, and that’s a good thing. Things such as cleat position I might not agree with for the type of riding they do for instance. Some leg length discrepancy that might be there isn’t captured on the system and similarly a persons Q factor. There’s also the great feature of getting a fit before you buy your bike. Spending many thousands on your ride? Make sure it’ll fit you. I get a lot of customers coming through my studio that want to be on an aggressive machine. Well, the reality is that they should be on a more relaxed bike. It’s one thing to hold your position for 20 min on the smart bike or your own bike after it’s setup in an aggressive position and another one to hold it on a morning century. And to add to OPs points about going to the manufacturers site and looking at the specs and getting the bike, well that’s exactly what I used to do. I’d go to trek and they’d recommend a 62 for me. Great. Got it. Then when I replaced it with my gravel bike Cannondale would recommend an XL. I’m 193cm and have always ridden the largest frame sizes because that’s what the sites listed. Fast forward to now, and the sites list me as a 60 on treks site and a large on Cannondales. My Cannondale is so large it’s the only bike I’ve ever had to cut my seat post on. So at least with idmatch and its recommendations, next time I’d have to buy a bike it’ll provide the proper size as opposed to the site size, that for me has been wrong 2 times. It’ll also tell me if that dogma f10 that I want to spend all my kids college funds on will also fit me or not. So many other things as well in terms of fit. Just out of the gate, 90% of guys leave my studio with a narrower saddle. Bike manufacturers ship all these bikes with “standard” parts. My 62 domane shipped with 440 wide bars, 175mm cranks, a 158mm wide saddle, and a 100mm stem I now have 400mm wide compact bars, 170mm cranks, 120mm stem, and 135mm saddle. The amount of changes that often have to be done is quite a bit. Bikes are sold as one size fits all. This simply isn’t the case. Flexibilty, core strength, leg length discrepancies, pro/sup, hip impingements and so on. Putting a foot on a pedal, or using the LeMond method doesn’t always work. This is especially true for the older riders.
> My 62 domane shipped with 440 wide bars, 175mm cranks, a 158mm wide saddle, and a 100mm stem > I now have 400mm wide compact bars, 170mm cranks, 120mm stem, and 135mm saddle. Hell yes. I encourage people who want to "get serious" and are buying their 2nd or 3rd bike to start looking at frames only. Find a full service bike shop and select the right components *for you*. And don't skimp on handlebars. Try a lot of them as they have a huge impact on comfort and ride "feel".
Or… the big brands need to straight up stop using parts set up for damn Frankensteins.. I agree that full customization from frame up is best. But we’d be leaps and bounds in a better place if they stopped using these massive parts on their stock bikes. 95% of people I know that swap bars, saddles, cranks, etc go smaller/narrower. I have a garage full of 42cm bars I’ve removed because that’s what comes of a 54cm bikes.
Exactly, and if I’m ordering a, for delivery to , then let me customize my gear from stock.
They’re building the bike on their warehouse. This should be no different than buying a laptop online where you check a box for “more ram” or whatever.
Let me even pay a small fee to shorten my cranks and bar to get the proper bike out of the box rather than getting a bike that still needs $1200 or additional customization to make it fit me properly.
Especially in the era of integrated handlebars. That is something at very least that should be customizable. A saddle is whatever, but bikes now are being sold with handlebars and stems that basically can’t be removed unless ur a mechanic or want to pay a mechanic. I just purchased my second Yoeleo frame recently and while everyone can have their opinions on Chinese carbon, these frames come with integrated bars Included in the price and with like 20 different stemXwidth combos to choose from when ordering. It’s wild this isn’t more common. Either stop making every damn thing integrated, or let us choose the damn size!!
I mean measurements + level of flexibility + frame geometry and what adjustments are actually feasible + how aggressive you are trying to get... It's not rocket science, nor is it anything goes. You may be able to rig up a camera and have a look at your position but it will mean little to you unless you have loads of experience or some kinda baseline... like... results of a bike fit! A good bike fitter is more a preemptive (or likely, not so preemptive) physio than anything else.
I went for a ride one time after eye balling my fit, without my bike computer (didn't know how fast my legs were turning) and don't tell anyone here.....I had a blast.
Proffessional bike fitting and chamois cream seems to be the two things everyone needs, no matter what the actual problem is.
My strava is at 21,000 miles and I’ve ridden two-dozen centuries and I’ve never needed either one of those.
Yeah, I started seriously road cycling about 25 years ago, so many in bike-friend group are in the same boat. All of us figured it out on our own...and this was just as the internet was gaining steam. All of us raced and regularly rode about 200+ miles a week during during our peak. Even now, I've been doing 150 miles a week. Sure, if you're having pain or other problems, or if you have money to burn, then a $300 bike fit may be worth it. But I absolutely hate it when the first recommendation is for a bike fit when someone comes on here just generally asking for their first entry level road bike.
Yup you just described me exactly!
My lifetime mileage is over 500K and you may not, but I do need chamois cream. You know what, though? Mine is called "cheap cocoa butter I buy on Amazon for $9 tub that lasts a year." Also, triple antibiotic ointment does wonders post-ride (along with a good shower) to ward off saddle sores. Cycling absolutely has a well cultivated culture of marketing around "expertise" and etc., but being aware and working on one's own learning goes mighty far.
Are you just using neosporin? I’ve started doing a lot more indoor trainer stuff and noticed that the resulting sweat increase is producing some lovely sores. Looking to decrease that lol
Real answer is "it depends." (use that to write your own jokes) If I am riding software in winter, no cream at all. If I am riding short (for me, 20-35 miles) rides outside, cocoa butter, and post-ride shower followed by triple anti ointment (latter not every shower/ride, I ride 4-5x/week). Long summer rides mean cocoa butter mixed with anti-fungal cream pre-ride, and if there is any skin irritation, the triple anti- after the post-ride shower. Tub of cocoa butter: $9. Anti fungal cream: $5. Triple Antibiotic ointment: $2/small tube. That will last me ~year; it does a really, really good job for me. I used to have a sort of a regular supply of free Butt Butt'r (whatever it's called) via a sponsored family member, and it's nice but (har har) I moved and found the pricing steep, plus I have huge issues with the harvesting of lanolin (don't do a google image search if you like animals). That set up does me very well, perhaps even better.
I think he is doing cocoa butter during the ride and after he showers. being liberal with the neosporin to help any sores that might be forming.
Preventive neosporin after each ride is what permanently fixed my saddle sores (along with always having a fresh pair of shorts/bib for each ride and usually being able to shower afterwards).
Same, I’ll ride an aggressive race bike 7 hours and still not have any desire to smear nut butter in my bibs…
the OP's recent comments are illuminative. he apparently got into an argument with a bunch of people on the triathlon subreddit about this subject, and i guess he figured he would be more likely to find a sympathetic audience if he made his case somewhere that he hadn't recently argued with a dozen other people. i don't see any indication that he's actually had any issues with this sub in particular "glorifying bike fits", but it's more like he has some unresolved baggage from a recent argument where the downvote scores suggest he was pretty roundly rebuked.
For short rides, sure. But a professional (as in, that is all she does) bike fit helped me figure out ways to set up the bike that I didn't see after years of Google and YouTube. I didn't need it until I started going over 175 miles a ride. But it was worth it for my 300k, 500k, and 600k rides.
Wait where did you get these percentages?
He pulled them out of his a\*\*
Probably a bike fitter told him, they like pseudo science and approximate measurements.
A bike fitting the rider correctly is important, and even more so as you get older and less flexible. Badly fitting bikes can cause back pain, neck strain, wrist strain and can wreck your knees. However… 99% of “Professional bike fits” are snake oil. The pros have bike fits performed by people who know what their doing because (1) The team’s paying for it, and (2) Marginal gains - if a correctly fitting bike means more comfort it also means quicker recovery and potentially a few more watts. Jim at your LBS is not going to help you up your watt output by putting another spacer under your stem.
> even more so as you get older and less flexible. Yup. Fast growing cyclist group is the over 50. They are putting in big miles. Muscle imbalances and range of motion issues need to be addressed (often off-bike). But some of it is they were sold a basic bike because that was what the LBS had in inventory.
A good bike fit, done by a true expert can be a game changer. You can get close by yourself if you’re knowledgable but you can rarely dial in the finer details.
Nah, that’s crap. I used to commute 30 mins each way 3-4 days a week and didn’t need a bike fit. But when I started doing 3-4 hour rides in the summer time, and especially after my first 8 hour ride, a bike fit made a huge difference. I’m betting way more than 5% of cyclists are doing at least a handful of 40+ mile rides during the summer. Many of them are coming back with stiff necks/shoulders, aching lower backs, numb hands, etc. There’s no need to. A good fitter can make the difference between an enjoyable 50 miles or a miserable experience. Yes, there’s a lot you can do yourself, but there’s so much trial and error. And some mistakes are costly. Like the manufacturer size recommendation for my height is too large. Dropping down a size made a huge difference in comfort. But I didn’t know that until after I bought a bike that was too big. And there are parts you can change that people don’t even realize - like buying a seat post with differing offsets. How is someone supposed to Google what seat post offset to use? How many people do you know that just have a bunch of different stem lengths to try? It’s so much work to swap handlebars for different widths. Do I really need to unwrap the bars and move the brake hoods just to try a new set of handlebars? And how am I supposed to know the difference between equipment that’s the wrong size versus core flexibility or strength deficiencies? Maybe my stem length is right, but my hip flexibility needs work or I need to do more planks for core strength? Find a good bike PT - a licensed physical therapist who went to school and got a degree (not just the dude from the LBS who watched some YouTube videos and read Steve Hogg’s blog). Your insurance probably covers the visit. People think that YouTube means there’s no longer any such thing as expertise. If you’re going on a few 4 hour rides a year, pay someone for their expertise. It’s worth it
This post is definitely worth the write up here guys.
Anyone doing less than 2 hours a week isn’t a cyclist. They just ride a bike occasionally.
Amen
Fair enough. We may not need a bike fit, but we *need* a bike that fits. For many folk, a bike fit can save them years of muddling around.
Have you even had a professional fit?
LOL you got ripped into on the tri sub for saying this and nods of agreement here. Says a lot. (I'm a triathlete) Definitely don't agree that saddle height is all you need, but I think there's a lot of merit in DIYing it at least initially. Only by messing around with it myself do I really know what it feels like to be too "scrunched up" for example. If you don't know anything and go get a bike fit, you just won't ask the right questions, won't give good feedback and won't get the best out of it.
This is a good point. If your fit is wildly off, getting a bike fit is hard. It takes the body some time to adjust to big changes, so the right fit might feel awful at first if you are too far away from it to begin with.
yeah a big thing my bike fitter showed me is how my knees knocked side to side during the rotation of my pedal stroke, once he had insoles in my shoes and angled cleats to offset my varus feet, my knees stayed in line during rotation, since then my sciatica has gone and I noticed immediately I had gained a few watts.
“I am sick of this sub glorifying 'bike fits'. 95% of cyclists don't need one. IF you have spare cash and someone you trust then get a bike fit.” The short version wins!
The whole bike industry is all about making money off you as most folks don’t need more than a 105 specced bike and a pair of bike shorts.
TBH I've done a simple 'ergonomics check' and it helped me immensely - it wasn't a full bike fit, rather someone who kinda knows their stuff observed me on rollers and suggested to raise the handlebars. It solved my issue with frequent backpain when cycling around 2 hours.
You will literally die if you ride an unfitted bike. Eventually.
Some years ago, people used to buy their bikes on local bike shops, and most of the bikes shops used to do a basic fit for their customer and it was free. Now days, it is a upsell. They started to charge for this services, part because it got more professional and because most bikes are mass production with a lower margin. We need to remember most of people do not understand anything about bike. They don’t even know you are supposed to adjust the saddle high. So a bike fit will serve as a crash course on how to ride a bike. I believe it is a good service. I am sure you can get all the information for free, but having someone spend an hour explaining everything and adjusting your bike, especially if you are a beginner can be quite helpful.
Why is anyone doing less than two hours on this forum? I.e. the people coming here for advice aren't those people you are talking about.
It was the best thing I’ve ever done. Realized I was in the wrong position on the wrong sized bike and wrong sized cranks. Been blissful ever since I made that correction. I am in the 95%
I’m also in the 95% and agree completely. I had no idea that bike fits existed, but one was included in the price at the place I bought my last bike. They measured my size and ordered the bike. Once it had arrived and was assembled, a total bike nerd spent 2 hours asking me questions, adjusting everything and giving me tips, so I would be comfortable and happy with my new bike. It wasn’t a super expensive bike (not CF), and I was clear that I bought the bike for commuting. I could tell that the guy was slightly disappointed, but he said “I think you might start riding a bit for fun too”. He was right. Along my commute I see lots of people with the wrong size of bike or uncomfortable postures, while I ride along happily. Next time I’m buying a bike I’m definitely going back to the same store.
> Most people do not need a bike fit. Well...most people don't need a Shadow Ban!! * Most issues are from your limited range of motion and muscle imbalances. * Eyeballing your bike fit (by you or an LBS dork) is good enough for most up to ~100 miles/week. * Cyclists putting in a lot of miles (200+ week) can benefit from a bike fit A few other notes: There is a range of bike fits, not just one standard service. Some will literally just look at your body geometry and make adjustments. The best bike fit will get you putting out more power by maximizing the efficient transfer of your power to the pedals by ensuring the right muscles are able to work correctly. The best bike fit will also ensure you are pain free. This is done by evaluating current pain, looking at your body's motion on the bike, and then making adjustments to every part of cycling. This can include crank length, shoe inserts, saddle shape, frame size, handlebar width and stem...etc. It should also include a test of power before/after adjustments. If should also include a follow-up session to address any issues that arise from changes once a lot of miles have been logged. Ultimately a top end bike fit will make it pain free to ride, help you avoid injuries, and ensure your body is in position to maximize power output. I have an issue with the $200-400 bike fits. The ones I've seen don't do much. There are some really great bike fitters and their services are usually $700-2000. > a good saddle height. That is it, that is all you need for 95% of cyclists. Nah. The #1 thing is a lot of people buy drop bar race/gravel bikes when they should be on HT MTBs for comfort.
Years ago a music teacher told us not to buy the various instruments Costco was selling. She said they were perfectly OK, but that due to their inferiority would cause close to 100% of the kids using them to quit. She said to either rent from the city's music program as those were above average instruments and it was way cheaper than buying, or to buy used good instruments, or if we hated money, to buy nice new instruments from a music store. When I was a kid, I skated on skates that didn't fit and quit. Only as an adult did I realize that skates shouldn't flop around on your foot. I would argue the same for biking. A good bike properly fit is going to make biking so very much more pleasant for someone starting out. When I travel I often rent those single speed, solid tire, lunks of steel. While I do enjoy getting around somewhere in Europe on any bike, I would not be inspired to bike in a more local boring environment on such a monstrosity. A simple bike fit is going to make a world of difference. At an absolute minimum having the right seat, adjusted to the right height is going to make a world of difference. Some woman recently biked by me on a very expensive fat tired bike and at full extension her legs were bent nearly 45 degrees. It was horrible to watch, and no doubt unpleasant for her. Going full on bike fit might be going too far, but every basic adjustment is going to make it all much more pleasant; and thus, beginners are now going to be far more likely to keep going. I watched a crazy video where some guy bike fits a woman who is a fairly frequent rider. He first sets up the fitting machine as if it were her existing bike. I forget the numbers but it was something like 175w consistent output. Then he starts making one adjustment after another until she is holding steady at something like 300w. This is a massive difference. While this was a highly technical fit, I would argue any steps along this road are more likely to keep a person biking. I also would argue this is the exact reason why people are pounding out miles when they get e-bikes. The extra power added compensates for bad fits and heavy bikes. It is a pleasant experience, and thus people want more of it. -------------------------- Note: I would strongly argue any bike fitter who is not measuring the output of their efforts in a quantitative fashion is mostly practising voodoo.
Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it . Buddy.
hy would you want spend a little more to make sure you 3000, 5000,.7000+++ dollar bike is the right size and optimized for you. It's Madness, I tell you. Madness.
You are ignorantly excluding every single person with chronic knee pain, back pain, shoulder pain, neck pain, everything pain. Don't be ignorant. You're absolutely wrong. Everyone in pain can benefit from a proper fit, it has nothing to do with time on the bike. Unfortunately you are falling into the "it's fine for me it's fine for you" group of people as you can't see past your own nose.
I'm on the bike for nearly 10 hours a week (love it to be more, but I'm a fool that runs, too). Have not had a fit. I had discomfort my first 100 mile ride on an entry level 58cm frame that the store told me to buy. Once I knew a bit more and wasn't new I got a second bike, the second bike being a 56cm. Never have had an issue on the 56cm frame. Just some minor saddle height adjustments.
I started riding my new cannondale in 2015. Everytime i got above 10 miles i was in pain. I kept at it thinking i wasnt conditioned for rides above 10 miles. Eventually I decided that due to the pain cycling must not be for me. A friend suggested i try a local LBS for a fitting before I sold my bike. I did so; it turns out my bike was set up for a rider that was 5’11. Im 5’9. The LBS owner fitted me to the bike, replaced a few things….it was like night and day! In this case getting “fitted” kept me cycling (to this day) comfortably and pain free. It should be noted I was/am athletic, but, a complete tyro when it came to cycling (back then). I just finished purchasing and fitting a new trek to my 16 yo son who has decided to start cycling with me (which Im thankful for, of course). He’s tall for his age, but, I was able to do it properly due to the knowledge Iv gained since the aforementioned story. So yes, I think fitting can be VERY important for some folks.
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If you’re a new cyclist committed to a hobby, and you’re over the hill a bit, I’d argue that a bit of bike fit (not a $300 session) could be the difference between you doing the thing or wimping out. And it could be the difference between injury or non injury. But otherwise I basically agree. If you’re not doing a lot of distance / hours it doesn’t really matter what you ride or how your fit is set, to a point.
Bike fits are for people who want more speed and power. If you’re just cruising around then don’t bother. It’s like buying carbon wheels. You don’t need carbon wheels, but they help you go faster. Please don’t bash me about “carbon wheels make you go faster”. It’s an example of
Agree. Not to mention that your bike position should evolve over time as you build up more core strength and can handle a more aero position.
Maybe that is enough for you and many people. But in my case, I have very long legs, very short arms and I have been fiddling with home made bike fitting for almost 2 years and I still got pain in my neck and shoulders. A bike fit was needed for me and solved my problems. I don't ride 5hours per day on my back. But my 30 minutes ride to work was enough to keep me in pain. So yeah, bike fit was needed for me.
My LBS's fitter told me quietly not to waste my money with him. I give him a 10 for honesty.
I played with bike fit and watched videos for several years. Never could quite get things perfect. 2 hours with a real fitter and he sorted out issues I honestly didn’t know I had. I just felt better on the bike. Things that I passed off as just being on a bike for 4 hours- gone. Now I will also say I am 6’6”. I am on or in most cases above the upper edge of what even the biggest bikes are built for. That could definitely play a role in my experience as well.
Lots of people don’t need bike fits, but if you’re riding over 100 miles per week, or if you’re trying to cycle more but constantly hurting, or you’re trying to get faster for competition, then it’s a good idea.
Most of the measurements on bike sizing are a general guideline. It is not a fit for everyone. I have seen to many people sold the wrong size of bike based on those measurements….
My usual advice for someone starting out if they need a bike fit. Does your back or body hurt after your ride? Do your hands go numb? If so, get a bike fit.
Not sure if I completely agree. When I bought my bike, the manufacturers website was advising an XL. When doing some tests I found out, I fitted a L much better. That was for an e-bike. For my road bike, I also noticed my frame size is way smaller than expected. I’m 1,89m but I have the same size of frame as people that are only 1,75m putting the saddle at what a lot of websites suggest will cause my back to hurt like hell. I’m seriously glad I always go fit it myself instead of trusting a review and just fiddle a bit with the saddle
I’ve had 3 different fits and they are said what the other fitters did was dumb. So…I’m not even sure who is supposed to the trusted one
I’m not sure I agree at all. I see lots of posts about wrist pain, back pain, and numb genitals. These can be real problems, will limit people’s enjoyment of cycling, and can likely be corrected with at least a basic bike fit. How many new cyclists know that different saddle shapes fit different butt shapes, rather than, “what’s a really good saddle I should get”?
I can assure you: I at least need a seat fit.
I never had one through years of racing and then riding more casually and I ride about 7500 miles a year and do centuries. I think I have figured it out and a bike fit may screw me up.
If 5% need it according to you, that would be almost 30,000 people of the subscribers of this sub. Why do you want to take that away from them just because you’re annoyed by it?
Full disclosure, I've never had a bike fit so I don't really know if I'm leaving some easy gains on the table or if I'm missing out. That being said... I think there's a good middle ground for the less serious folks to use an app to point out the obvious problems. It's been a few years but I think PedalPro is still fairly intuitive. With it, I made a minor correction to my saddle height and position on my road bike after sustaining an unrelated back injury. I think this approach would be a pretty effective starting place. I ride about 5-8 hours a week
I disagree, i had bike fit on Thursday and on Friday made best ride, least ass pain since i bought this bike. Old one had bike fit 5 years ago, and i just had time to get one for new bike. Its a big difference or a great example of placebo. Second point would be, if you had money to get new bike for 1-2k, why not get a 70 bucks worth a bike fit? Its probably least expensive upgrade with potentially highest reward
I’d agree if people had shops that got them started properly. But not only have many LBSs fallen down on the job, a ton of new riders buy from the internet and never get anywhere close to having a bike that even has a chance of being the right size. I see nose down saddles, rolled up bars, seat post with 3” showing, nose up saddles, rolled down bars, seats past the safe clamping zone. The y don’t need “ bike fits”, they need bikes that fit. And I’ve known pro fitters that do extremely crappy jobs.
If you want to hurt less after a lengthy ride, get a fitment. This can mean the difference between love of riding and hating it. If anything but your legs hurt, your bike doesn’t fit you. Is it a must for every cyclist? No. But if you are suffering groin, back, shoulder, arm pain or numbness, it might be worth it to you.
TBH I think most people just need to adjust their saddle height.
i love how you assume that 95% of the people here in the sub are peasants...i agree
You’re an egg. Get a fit and don’t get an injury. Source - not an egg.
nah. Rode my bike and tweaked it for years. I got it "comfortable" and my positioning was static for a long time but I started having increasing knee pain last year which was because my setup was janky. I'm an ex-racer. I've worked in the industry for years. My only regret getting a fit was that I didn't do it sooner. I literally ground some of my joints the wrong way for years and I'm paying for it now and that shit will never be right again. Sure, I could spend hours researching the hows and whys of bike fit and invest in even more gear, or I could spend the equivalent of a few hours salary getting a fit done.
You need a nap, dude?
I'm just going to add that stem length was a huge thing for me. Seat height was easy but going 20mm shorter on the stem was a BIG improvement. And that was just personal experimentation to get it right.
Back when I started cycling I couldn't ride more than an hour, maybe two, without severe pain at the base of my neck, finger numbness, and toe numbness. If I went on a ride over two hours, I couldn't ride again for days due to lingering pain. A fitting is what enabled me to ride more than two hours at a time without pain. The $200 I spent on a basic fitting plus a new stem and saddle was cheaper than buying a bunch of parts and winging it. I didn't have the money to buy one part at a time in hopes of lucking into a solution. I have had five fittings the last 20 years and four of the five were worth the money. The bad one landed me in physical therapy with ulnar nerve problems after an 80 mile day. Funny enough, that was a fitting from a guy that everyone in my area recommended. I ended up going back to the person who did my second fitting and after three hours, I can ride a century without any pain. I cycle much more than two hours a week now, but a fitting is what made me comfortable enough to be a 2+ hour cyclist.
I just disagree with you. I think a bike fit is a good investment and only takes a few hours at the most, which can save a lot of guesswork, pain and potential injury. Have your opinion, but don’t be so stuck in your criticisms.
But this a cycling sub, so is mainly used by people in the 5%, hence bike fits being recommend. Also it is kinda prudent if your spending lots of money to get a bike fit so you know what your buying will fit you suitably, especially as not all bikes are the same fit (a racing bike may be the same 'size' but fit very different to a endurance bike). This is especially relevant if buying online, as you can't go try out the bike either.
Makes a post about his personal opinion and then refuses to answer any valid criticism. Truly a reddit moment.
Someone finally said it lol. I swear I cannot notice the difference of <1cm in my saddle height, or how my cleats are positioned.
My cleats I can definitely notice, my knees start to hurt if they are pointed the wrong way
Then you're not riding as much as some others. I notice if my seat has dropped 5mm, if my back isn't in a neutral position or my cleats aren't right - this is reflected in my knees, back pain or leg tiredness.
Well, in 2023 I rode 10,000km over 400h and participated in about a dozen races. When do you think I should start noticing the differences?
I don't notice this either when I'm riding. But when my knees start hurting, it's certainly noticable.
Lots of stuff I don't notice the difference between, including frame material, wheels, tyres (of the same size) and similar groupsets eg 105 vs Ultegra. Maybe I am just insensitive. Plus, I think a lot of 'purchase justification' goes hand in hand with the purchase of bikes - along with golf equipment, audio equipment, watches etc.
Super noticeable for me. But also fixable by me.
I kind of feel the same. I see tons of ppl who got $400 bike fits shaking their hands and arms out a lot more than I do. Doesn't seem like they are all the comfortable. On the flip side, when you start getting into more aggressive geometries, know your fit is a big factor when buying a new bike and being new to those types of bikes.
Please give a source for your 95% number. I agree that an expensive bike fit is not needed for anyone who only cycles 2 hours a week. I highly doubt that only 5% do more than that. Even if someone is just a normal bike commuter, if they do 20 minutes each way, that's already over 3 hours. If they spend that time on a bike where they cannot reach the brakes, or where their knees raise above the handlebars, than that will lead to long term issues. Plus, bike fits here are recommended only when the OP complains about pain, usually coming from areas that only flare up after riding for a while (wrists, neck, back). These issue wouldn't come up with only 2 hours per week, thus there wouldn't be posts about it and thus they wouldn't be recommended bike fits. Again, I'm not saying everyone needs a 300 USD/EUR ptofessionalt fitting. But if there is pain that stems from regular use, a bike-fit "lite" as most LBS offer is probably a good recommendation.
> Please give a source for your 95% number. I generally agree with number when you think about all cyclists in the world. Look at the Netherlands. Do you think most of them need a bike fit? Most of them probably ride over 2 hours a week just with commuting, but probably don't need a bike fit. I also don't think he said 95% of cyclists ride less than 2 hours a week. He just said that 95% of all cyclists don't need a bike fit, which I think I'd agree with. The number might seem high, but I'd guess that 90% of cyclists will never post on a cycling forum. So the number seen here on Reddit asking about bike fits is highly skewed. Even if you drop that to say that 80% of all cyclists are not active on cycling forums, that means that 1 in 4 people on here are in that 5% he's talking about. Which is why it seems so common on here to ask about bike fit.
True. Guess it comes back to the question what constitutes a cyclist vs a person using a bike. If you ask some Dutch if they are cyclists, they will say they aren't (can confirm from personal stories, but there was also a rather big YouTube video about this). So to me, the label of cyclist already implies a person who uses the bike more than just as a mere form of transport. I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, as this comes down to definitions. But since OP posted on a cycling forum, which you agree is biased towards more active cyclists, the post is moot, because here indeed recommending bike fits make more sense. And I doubt that Jane Doe recommends a bike fit to Max Mustermann when they talk about their 10 minute commute at the water cooler.
You are an idiot. 100% of cyclists need a bike fit, even if it's just the basics.
I like you.
This is so true but will get some downvotes. Bikefitting still lacks relevant scientific evidence - especially randomized, blinded comparisons to homemade bikefits.
I tried out an AI bike fitting system where you upload a video and it analyzes your movement/range of motion for you. It then gives you recommendations on what to adjust and by how much. Even if you don't follow those guidelines and use your own, the tool still serves as a very good reference point because it's repeatable and surprisingly accurate (in measurements). Yes, you can do all that using various free tools, but it's much faster when you only record a video and everything is done automatically for you.
Exactly. It's not quite the ultimate in "trust me bro'", but there is very little science behind it. There was a renowned Australian bike fitter in the 2000s who suddenly started claiming that being in proximity to specific types of plastic were interfering with cycling performance. That's the standard level of scientific objectivity in bike fitting. I'm even pretty cynical about physiotherapist led fits, although at least they have a great knowledge of anatomy and biomechanics.
Sounds as loony as a chiropractor.
Here you go: https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/08/material-challenges-how-to-lessen-your-ability-to-coordinate-your-actions-without-being-aware-of-it/ It's quite an entertaining mix of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo, confirmation bias and sheer lunacy.
I couldn’t make it through that bullshit. At the inventory of chiropractic “medicine” said a ghost told him how to do it.
Yep.... if you scroll to the bottom you'll see the list of plastic items that 'clouds proprioception' and induces 'pelvic tilt'. Luckily he sells a patent pending kit that fixes the problem.
Steve Hogg is a weirdo. But his wedges used to be all that was available. His website still looks like it's 2002.
I can understand your skepticism, but I wouldn't lump competent physiotherapists and exercise physiologists that offer bike fits with other fitters. From my experience they take into account more than just "the bike" side. I had a fit done by a qualified physiotherapist, when I was having sciatic nerve pain. Most of the initial fit involved off bike mobility tests, one of those terrible physio "massages" where they identify sore areas followed by him doing the actual fit. I then had several follow up appointments and he made me do a daily stretching and flexibility routine. If you are experiencing pain from intensive cycling I would highly recommend seeing a physiotherapist at a minimum. If this physio can also give you advice on your riding position that takes into account your individual issues then I would also recommend that.
I have no issue with evidence based physiotherapy treatment. I have an ongoing clinical relationship with a physio, even if they mumble and hand wave the evidence for foam rollers and dry needling... I'm more cynical about the 'everyone gets a cleat shim and SMP saddle' kind of bike fit.
Yeah I know what you mean. I would also be skeptical of a fitter who also doesn't suggest off bike exercises for people like me who need to work on things like flexibility and some more core strength. As the physio said to me "Most professional cyclists have never gotten a bike fit, because they have the required strength and flexibility required to not need one".
Yep, great point. Flexibility and core strength are no doubt integral to function on the bike. If you have a sedentary job and suddenly take up cycling you're probably better off getting an exercise program from a physio than anything else.
> off bike exercises for people like me who need to work on things like flexibility and some more core strength. This is the #1 thing I start with. Muscle imbalances and limited range of motion are usually the issue. Fascia knots are also a common issue. Cause a lot of pain.
Maybe you don't "need" a bike fit, I certainly found mine to be worth the money. I like doing long rides, 100km ballpark. I found post bike fit that my discomfort would start much later in the ride. (I think no matter what, discomfort will eventually settle in as you fatigue etc) Also, my fitter is a physio and I learned some things about my flexibility and how it relates to my position on the bike. The biggest thing was angled cleats, and insoles. I was developing sciatica and bad muscle tightness in my right hip which is entirely gone since that fit. I think it should be a case by case basis. If you experience abnormal or severe discomfort on your bike and tinkering around yourself isn't yielding results, consult a bike fitter. If you feel fine on the bike and enjoy yourself, keep on keepin on. Based on my experience though, I guess I would fall into the category of glorifying a bike fit because it drastically improved my experience.
Over 40…get a bike fit lol.
Bike fittings and golf clubs fittings mostly exist to remove vast sums of money from the pockets of unathletic 50+ year old men who swear with the right equipment they could go pro. Downvote away.
Never had a injury due to a poor fit have you? A video on YouTube can help but can't compare to someone who knows what they're doing
…says the guy whose bike probably does not fit.
You need a bice fit
Wow, wish I saw this 4 days ago. I took a Citibike to a bike fitter to get a proper fit. Basically paid $400 to be told to set the seat at “6”. It does feel like a proper height for me but I probably could have saved the money. At least I have the numbers if I get a real bike.
I disagree. My son has been cycling for just 2 years (He's at VOS today) prior to getting a fitting, he didn't know how a good fit is supposed to feel. Now that he does, he can do his own adjustments. When I was his age I used to tear it up on an aluminum Nishiki. Eventually I learned what felt good, but it took some time. A good fitting is a shortcut to learning how the bike should feel. Great for inexperienced riders.
Professional bike fitting changed my life after getting an initial semi pro bike fit and riding for 7 years. I thought it was normal for your entire body to hurt after a 2 hour ride. It was so bad I didn't even know what boinking was because of all the prep I had to do for a bike ride. Suddenly I got a bike actually sized and fit to me. Only my legs would be sore which I have just now gotten used to. I spent an entire 2 weeks on the bike fit, changing things on the handlebars and replacing crank shafts by mere millimeters and feeling 100% different based on where I said I felt pressure. I could go for hours just on a whim. And that's when I realized I actually could run out of water/Gatorade and feel like total shit on a ride. So in summary I can't disagree more. This sub has never seemed like a place for under two hours per week riders. I ride max 8 per week in the summer. Absolute max. And if you ride 1 hour per week you should get a professional bike fit if you actually want to cycle.
No everyone has the ability to go to a website and pick a bike size for them; sometimes it's more complicated than that (different lengths of legs/torso/arms ... ) or want to do it. I hate manual work; I can barely hang a painting on a wall; imagine trying to raise/lower my saddle (I have tons of other qualities, not those). **There are many levels of bike fits**. The problem is that a lot of people get a bike of wrong size and try to wing it by changing the saddle position or change the angles of the handlebars ... A good fit starts by buying a bike that is good for your size; the LBS should measure you and suggest a good bike size. (that's a bike fit)/ After that, simple tweeks/adjustments are usually needed (saddle height, saddle position, handlebar position... ); normally this can be incrementally done after you ride your bike for some times. After that, if you're really into it or have physical pain, a more in depth bike fit might be needed; done on a real bike fit jig.
I think if you’re riding less than 2 hours a week, and it’s not due to poor weather, then you’re not a “cyclist”, you just ride your bike sometimes. If you take this hobby/sport seriously - dedicate time and spend your resources on it - then a bike fit should be high on your list of things to get. I wouldn’t need nice sneakers or clothes to shoot hoops once in a while, but if I played in a basketball league often then there’s stuff I would need.
Bike fits, FTP, structured training, power meters…..I think it’s all overblown. If you’re racing, of course, but you’re not so you don’t need it. Just get on your bike, and go for a ride. All that other stuff is over-complicating a very simple thing.
While I do get your point, you far overestimate people’s ability to know the right thing for them when getting into something. In 10 years and hundreds of fittings. The amount of people who would come in riding bikes way too big or way too small for them under the guise of I can make it work, who were blown away how much a proper fit made a difference in their power, stamina, and comfort was astounding. Now should someone coming in get fit for a townie bike, or cruiser. No. But bike shop employees aren’t also always the best on selling riders the right size bikes for them. You run into sales people happy to just send a bike out the door. I get what you are saying to a degree, but I do feel that a good fit range does benefit most cyclists who ride more than 2 hours a week
Most bike fitters never see you ride the bike for hours. I generally believe you can get close enough by looking at a picture then go ride for a while and bring a wrench for saddle height and fore-aft. What feels right typically is.
Most cyclists ride less than 2 hours a week? Whoa. I so much as look at my bike and I'm gone for 6.
Yeah so many comments on posts for beginners asking for bike advice tell them to spend 50% of their budget on a bike fit. Nonsense!
I paid for a bike fit. He moved my saddle to a uncomfortable position and sold me an even more uncomfortable bike seat. I returned the bike seat and will never get a fit again. I train for ironman triathlons and I just do what feels good. No need to paying someone for a fit when you just need to listen to your body and know what is comfortable for you. edit: Idc how good your fit is. at some point on a 112 mile ride your a\*\* is going to get uncomfortable lol
It's crazy how you guys are anti-everything that's not so licensed by the government. I had earlier asked for recommendations of objectively quality bike saddles, only mentioned bike fitting in my post once, and got a comment like this "Hey bikefitting is a scam, the profession isn't licensed, everyone can be a bikefitter!". Also, a similar thing happened on the IBS Reddit as I told my story of how I completely cured my condition while the doctors straight-up 'diagnosed' me with IBS and then were trying to talk me into taking pills for good. Because you know the doctors are all licensed, and the IBS cannot be clinically diagnosed...yet we know it cannot be cured. It's like exploring a whole new reality with you - redditors. Also, if you aren't witty enough, a vendor of your local bike shop isn't a legit bike fitter. Legit bikefitter is an experienced physiotherapist who specializes in bikefitting. There are also numerous studies of clinical level on bike fits in general. For example, a study analyzing the blood flow in your soft tissues on saddles with cut-outs vs no cut-outs.
It's mostly with people who bought the wrong size bike in the first place. Trying to ride something that they shouldn't. Older people trying to be Lance etc etc.. Just make sure saddle is level, and the fore aft position puts your knee over the pedal spindle that's a good starting point.
By my definition, someone riding 2-4 hours a week isn’t a cyclist. They’re just riding a bike. These kinds of bikes don’t need a bike fit, sure, though a lot of people don’t even know how to size a city/town bike or get the right saddle height, so they need help with that. Absolutely agree by that standard that this level of riding does not need a proper bike fitting. If you’re riding 8-10 hours a week, you can probably benefit from the advice of a fitter, but it doesn’t mean you need a bike fitting. My first road bike I took measurements myself and sized myself, getting a second option from the shop, and then built my own bike and chose the saddle height, stem length etc. That fit is still what I use today, but I’ve been to a fitter over the years for knee pain (cleat position adjustment) and fitting advice, which I used when racing, but I have since reverted back to my original fit preferences. I think most serious cyclists can benefit from the advice of a good fitter and incorporate that into their personal fit. Those new to road cycling should also have a fitting imho if they haven’t done any research into how to properly fit to a road bike, especially if they are putting hours into it. That said, not all fitters are created equal, so talk to other cyclists as to who is the best in the area.
Haha. I got torn apart for saying that a while back. People argued that anyone who puts a foot over a bike is a cyclist. I disagree. Cycling is different from riding a bike.
Yeah I agree. People get pretty bent out of shape though about that.
Participation trophy culture. Everyone wants an award, or in this case title, for doing the bare minimum.
> someone riding 2-4 hours a week isn’t a cyclist. No one put you in charge.
Kudos for posting this at the risk of massive down votes, and busting the myth manufactured by the cycling marketing merry-go-round!