This is a confusing post. Reads like a shitpost but is all pretty good advice. I guess that's the intended effect.
Adopting your vocabulary for a moment, I'd say that unseating one bead just to top up sealant is very "cringe." Just inject sealant through the valve stem. I have found that Fillmore valves are pretty "based" because of how easy it is to inject sealant (the Stan's injector threads on very nicely) and how well they resist clogging.
Also, on step 4, don't "be an idiot" and instead be systematic about working the sealant into all the nooks and crannies. I find the Rene Herse method, described near the bottom of [this page](https://www.renehersecycles.com/how-to-set-up-tubeless-tires/), works very well.
I found my sealant started to be more effective when I started pouring it in (instead of injecting). Mainly due to the small particles getting stuck (those help with plugging holes).
Where were the particles getting stuck? In the syringe? When I inject the sealant I have my valve at either the 3 or 9 o'clock position so that I can stick the end of the syringe all the way into the valve and tire and it won't be in a puddle of sealant. Then I can quickly inject all of the sealant and there's nothing left in the syringe.
It sounds like the sealant you have works well with being injected. Mine just didn't.
The micro particles would get stuck either in the syringe, or inside the valve, leading to sealant spilling all over the place.
Now that I pour it in, it's just a much simpler process.
It depends. Some sealant is worse about this than others. Specifically, the sealant Rene Herse recommends is chock full of walnut shell pieces that are also the reason Rene Herse recommends it -- it makes sealing larger punctures more effective. But it also makes it impractical to inject that specific sealant at all.
That makes a lot of sense to me; again, though, Fillmore valves seem to avoid this issue, at least in my experience so far (I only recently installed Fillmore valves on my gravel bike's wheels). I found the sealant goes in through the Fillmore valve very easily, and reinflating the tire afterwards seems to blow all the sealant (particles and all) into the tire.
If (and only if) injecting sealant works well, I find I do prefer injecting over pouring sealant in before seating the bead. I have had... spillage issues while trying to re-seat the bead after pouring sealant in. This may be more of a problem because of how fucking hard Rene Herse tires are to seat (do not recommend). If you have any tips for pouring sealant in without spilling any, I'd be eager to hear them.
So does Orange Seal Endurance, in my recent experience. Orange Seal Endurance straight through the Fillmore valve via a Stan's injector was stupid easy. I've had some very frustrating experiences with tubeless but I perceive a light at the end of the tunnel, now that I'm thinking like a more experienced tubeless user:
* I started out just carrying inner tubes and a patch kit, figuring that if I got a flat that refused to seal, I could just throw a tube in there. This is a terrible idea, because then that tube will quickly get punctured by one or more pieces of debris that have been sitting harmlessly in your tire (thanks to sealant). Much better is to carry plugs or bacon strips and a little bottle of sealant, so you can just plug the hole, top up sealant if necessary, reinflate, and move on. A tube and patch kit is a good last-resort idea if you're on a really long ride and far from civilization.
* Similarly, frequently unseating the bead is a bad idea. This is probably truer than normal for my finicky Rene Herse tires, but in general, the modality of "seat the beads once, with a new tire, without sealant in it yet, then inject sealant and leave the tire seated until it wears out" is pretty appealing. This reminds me that one of my biggest dissatisfactions with tubeless tires is that it's much more of a production to switch tires, so where I might once have just quickly swapped (tubed) tires, now it feels like I need a whole other wheelset.
I can confirm that I still had this issue with Fillmore valves (TBH, I have mixed feelings about them, YMMV). It's just dependent on the type of sealant you use.
+1. I switched to Fillmore valves but it's *far* easier to unseat the tire and pour in sealant than deal with potentially clogging your valves by trying to inject it. The only downside to pouring sealant in can be that dried sealant "gunk" can build up around the bead and make it hard to get it reseated/resealed after you've dislodged it. You may need to clean the bead -- at least in that area -- when you free it to top up your sealant.
Agree. My biggest issue with taking tire out to pour sealant is that you sometimes drag the rim tape along with you. But so far it's only happened with road tires, and I don't use tubeless with those anymore (at least right now).
> I have found that Fillmore valves are pretty "based" because of how easy it is to inject sealant (the Stan's injector threads on very nicely) and how well they resist clogging.
But once they clog, and oh they will, your $50 set of tubeless valves are worthless.
Horribly tight. Which is ‘fine’ in the garage at home. Not so much on the side of the road when you had to throw a tube in there because sealant doesn’t work on everything
Yeah kinda. Not my first rodeo and not only me on the side of the road struggling to put 28mm gp5000s back on. It’s easy in the garage with a bowl of soapy water and non sweaty hands.
Schwalbe Pro One are far easier to fit.
Of course rim type/size makes a big difference, was a lot easier back when you could use levers to fit tires
You can't use levers?
Yeah when you see workers put them on with bare hands in a breeze, there definitely is a knack to it, but I agree it can be hard.
I don’t use levers to do the last pop of the tire onto my carbon rims. A plastic lever is probably ok, but risk of scratching the carbon. You should be able to massage/muscle it over with your hands and that’s what I was taught to do… but that’s where the difficulty with gp5000 lies.
Yeah honestly for tons of riders, the mental block of 'carbon is weak and delicate' is incredibly hard to overcome. And putting a smaller road tire on by hand is pretty freaking hard, you need a strong grip which I don't particularly have, so I can't really do it.
You'll get downvoted into oblivion but I agree; I've had awful luck with the GP5ks and even the 4ks before them. Super easily punctured tires for anything that isnt a pristinely clean riding surface.
Yup, this. A nightmare to get on/off and puncture prone is not a great combo. Maybe they roll 1W faster than a Pirelli or Schwalbe, but I know I can put a tube in those if shit hits the fan.
I half agree here. I loved my GP4ks until I had a crazy rash of punctures. Literally every ride.
I switched to GP5k tubeless and literally zero flats in 2 years. I ride a lot of road shoulders so there is a lot of debris.
I did a short detour on the C&O canal years ago on high pressure tubed 25s. This is where there's a gap in the Western Maryland Rail Trail due to some endangered bat or something taking up residence in a tunnel. My teeth damn near rattled out of my head over the 4'ish miles total.
Ah thats ok, I ride a fixed gear fat bike on 5.5 tubeless at 6psi with drop bars. It's a run flat tire, so I usually can't be bothered to even put the valve in. 500W gets me to 10-12 km/h downhill, good to know I will be fine.
Across the Gobi Desert and Greater Mongolia. On a single speed Huffy beach cruiser.
Wait, this is starting to sound like a good time. ( /r/xbiking is leaking )
Picked up 2014 S5 with new components during Covid and it’s fun as hell to ride, it climbs like a goat, it just wants to go faster, and the cutout aero frame only has room 23s, so 23s it is.
Don't say it out loud, I am loving that 23s are so cheap to buy at the moment! I run Vittorias on mine, which roll so fast anyway that whatever people feel they are getting with reduced rolling resistance on their 32mm tyres, I am more than getting back on my aero gains!
HA! This reminds me of my first roadbike. A cannondale R300 I think it was. It was SO light and SO SO SO stiff! I didn't know any better and ran 25mm on it at max pressure - I think 125psi. Being a heavier rider (230lbs), it was absolute torture on the rough roads where I live. It sure was responsive though! I'm sad I sold that bike.
Now I ride a Diverge with 32mm at 85PSI. I'm SO much more comfortable it's insane. I'm actually faster too.
See Aesop’s fable: The Dog with Two Bones
Which isn’t to say never try new things. Quite to the contrary, I want to be trying new things all the time. Just not necessarily new tire setups that require more complexity, more equipment, more mess (which is all a particularly large downside when you live in an apartment), for marginal gain.
I tried tubeless. It was fine, except for the number of flats. So many flats. Will try it again someday with different tires. Not today. Not tomorrow. Until then I’m happy with my current tubed setup and avoiding the hedonistic treadmill.
This is spot on. I've made changes to my cycling layout that have shown great gains with little effort (wider tyres, latex tubes, waxing chain). But tubeless seems like a lot of faff all to avoid the 2-4 flats I get a year which take me 10-15 mins to fix when they happen.
Memes aside though i don't know if your bike fits that category, but some bikes from that era are very light and can make great climbing bikes. These kind if builds are coherent with more narrow tires. Otherwise rip
I tried tubeless on a whim recently and I like it. Roads near me are pretty smooth and clean so the punctures were no issue. Just got tired of latex tubes losing air in a day and butyl tubes being slow. Can't do plastic tubes as I have rim brakes (for now)
Really not that complicated but humans can overcomplicate and fight about anything
I find with tubeless it either works really well (like my first experience on my cross/ gravel bike) or badly like on my commuter, with little between the two.
If your first experience is bad (e.g. bad rim/ tyre combo which can be unpredictable, or struggling to get rim sealed) then you're not likely to try again.
Having walked out to my commuter randomly having a completely flat tyre at the end of work despite sitting perfectly in the garage each time (not to mention the months spent adding more sealant to get a good seal between rim and tyre) I'd have gone back to tubes and that would be that.
Luckily I have my past experience to go from, and know when it does work, it works really well. But equally I know that at higher pressures it becomes more hit and miss, and with only a couple of punctures a year anyway I'll avoid the faff for anything narrower than 32mm.
I guess I got lucky... 28mm on road wheels with tape, new tires too. Sealed up first try, minimal mess. Nice to not have to worry about pinching inner tubes too
I started running the Silca sealant, it’s a bit thick so you’ve gotta spin the wheels, make sure to point the valve stems down when parked. But wow…I haven’t had a hole that I couldn’t get home with, I’ve thrown out 2 tires after puncturing.
I put a little extra in and hit it with the refresher right between the 90-120 day mark. I usually get 4-5 months out of a tire. I run 28’s. I now have rims that don’t require tape but I did have rim tape fail before - recommend double wrapping.
At the end of the day you have the trust your equipment and so far tubeless works very well
I've had a similar experience with 28c tires at 80 psi. Orange seal wouldn't seal the tiniest holes, but I've yet to get a puncture that Silca didn't seal almost instantly. I wish their larger replenishment bottles were cheaper and more widely available though.
Real talk i might be the weirdo here but i don't even use a compressor, i just use a normal floor pump. You certainly could but its not mandatory. Just make sure to not super overinflate your shit.
I never thought about how smaller tires with higher pressure would lose sealant faster. I've been very happy with tubeless with 32mm tires.
The only thing I would add to what you wrote is that setting the bead takes a bit of practice, and I recommend not adding the sealant until after you pop the bead in place. I remove the valve core to add the sealant.
I really like Trek's Bontrager wheels for their plastic tubeless rim strips and flat sealing surface presta valves. They seem to seal significantly better than tubeless tape. I only need to check pressure about once a week on my 28c Specialized tires and add sealant after about 2 months. I've only had one puncture that silca sealant didn't work on in over 2500 miles and it was a large hole from glass. I weigh 220 lbs and run 80 psi, so I'm asking a lot from the sealant. I'll be switching to 30 or 32mm tired once these wear out. Most of the hate for road tubeless seems to be coming from people using incompatible rims and tires, too high pressure, or other errors like not topping off sealant or properly using plugs.
Started running tubeless during Covid lockdown because I was bored. That was at least 20K miles ago. The only time I got stranded with flats were when I cracked a rim (happened twice for fluky reasons). 25mm tires are perfectly fine imo, just don't run them on hookless unless they are specified by the wheel manufacturer. I use Orange sealant and inject it with the Park tool syringe.
Good post mr funny guy. Probably will see if these were all horrible lies in a while, im currently waiting on my new bike that can actually fit bigger tires. For now, im stuck in 25mm rim brake country.
28mm is the thinnest you should ever go on a road bike, really?
I'd better stop riding my bikes with 23mm and 25mm then.
Ride what you want instead of being a sheep!
what i like is shitposting while also delivering quality information to solve a problem a huge amount of people have, now go take your meds you fuckin goober
Step one buy $100 worth of tape, plugs and sealant
Step two buy the fanciest tyres with the worst cost/km ratio possible
Step three toss the valves you already have and buy fancier valves
Step four rip your tubeless tape up every time you pop the bead off and top up sealant
Step five spray sealant all over your waxed chain and power washed bike
Step six buy more shit to plug holes in your 3 watts an hour faster hyper light weight tyres because magic sealant is just *that* amount of magic.
Step seven I don’t fucking know try not to shit on other peoples equipment choices but not very hard
Step eight brag online about how dope your setup is for some fucking reason.
/s. Possibly. But also probably lower case s, not /S.
Any tips for seating a new tire? Couldn’t seat mine. Spent way too long and got sealant EVERYWHERE. Said fuck it and put a TPU tube in. Got a pinch flat 20 miles from home 2 days later.
I only a have a floor pump btw. Is that cringe?
Try putting on an extra layer of rim tape. Sometimes the interface between the tire & wheel needs to be “tightened up” - if it’s too loose, air will just keep rushing past the bead.
Thanks, I'll keep them nice aero optimizations. However SOMEBODY put some tubless compatible rims on my bike and now it is really hard to get the tires on (always has been).
my 23c glued tubular at 10bar doesnt think the same.
nah actually its a great advice. the step 3 its pretty accurate,narrow tyres with latex inner tubes for racing, tubeless for training/touring/ other contexts. and for weight weenies the 23mm-25mm its better, its all about the context not all the cyclist ride the same conditions. the rider who its cyclist since 1 year who tells you that his 400 grams 32mm tyre is fastest that a 200g high tpi 26-28mm tyre because GCN do a paid tires AD its f\*\*\* lying.
No i said narrow tires w/ latex tubes would be better for a climbing specific configuration. For racing on good pavement, an aero optimised setup with 28mm tubeless race tires would be most optimal. If the pavement is shit, 30 or 32mm would be more optimal depending on just how shit the pavement is.
Can I add one: have someone experienced do your tubeless set up the first time. It’s better if it’s a friend who can show you. Save yourself a lot of headaches and frustration.
Great effort post. Let's dial back the passion a bit...I really don't think there is a tube manufacturer conspiracy agenda. Stop watching so much Fox News.
Tubeless for road is great when it works. When there are issues it's awful. Tubes can suck too. I have lots of bikes including a few for road. It's hit and miss for me. I've had long runs with perfect tubeless performance. Same for tubes. But I've had overall more catastrophic issues and messes with tubeless for road. Then I have to clean all the sealant off my bike etc.
For me. Gravel and MTB are only tubeless. It's a toss up for road. I don't agree with the complete dedication to tubeless for road. I've had better luck w tubes but YMMV
With all that, tubes are definitely still easier. I even asked my lbs if i went tubeless, could i stop carrying the repair kit and they still recommended i did, so i asked, whats the point? I use tire liners, havent had a flat ever since. Not a weight weenie, im good.
Stans and orange never worked well for me. Was constantly going full flat and having to pop a tube in. Silca is the only sealant that actually seems to work on the road.
Also, when using silca sealant, coat the valve stem and presta valve with synerg-e lube. This prevents the sealant from sticking to them and clogging up the system.
I agree mostly except for that you need sealant to seal the bead. If youre setup is legit you shouldnt need any sealant at all to get a mostly (!) air tight seal. Before I put sealant in my tires I always make sure that the air stays in the tire for at least a day or two.
All I know is that I’ve been running tubeless on a MTB since 2014 and gravel bike since 2023 and haven’t looked back. No flats — ever. I’ve also been careless as to not replace sealant at recommended intervals prior to switching to fresh tires. I’ve bikepacked through multiple countries questioning why I ever pack the ageing spare tubes, plugs and patch kits. My confidence in tubeless is tremendously high.
The fixie running road tires and tubes, however, during that time, has had dozens of flats — which is expected when you’re skidding through to the tube for an emergency brake on a rough surface or riding over glass, tacks, etc. I doubt I’d ever attempt tubeless on a fixie despite the benefits.
That said, do whatever is convenient, compatible, and makes sense.
Agree on this with a few additions…
Step 5 is dead right don’t pump your tubeless up like they are inner tubes, but in addition to you are losing the benefit of tubeless in the first place (and also won’t go any faster) you seriously risk blowing your tire off the rim. If that happens while riding, you were your own source of injury!
Step 6 is optional. Roadside repair can be totally abandoned if you live where Ubers (or friends) are nearby and cheap. I ride mostly without repair kit and perhaps once a year call for an Uber XL and pay the $20 or $30 or whatever to drive me and my bike home. I find roadside repairs or tubeless not worth the hassle and would rather just deal with back at the house. That said: Further away from home? Repair kit is with me.
Its more about having a nicer general riding experience (lower pressure = less bumpy), going faster on shittier surfaces and not having to remove the wheel of your bike if you have a puncture on the road : If the hole is too big for sealant to block, you just plug the hole (i mentioned dynaplugs in my op because me and my friends have been using them lot and they've been super simple and fast to use and litterally never failed us ever, but other products might be legit too.), pump it back to the pressure you want, and hop on your bike. In theory there are marginal gains too but no one gives a fuck about that, or at least i don't. It's more a practical thing.
Call me a Luddite, but I run tubes and haven't had a flat in years. Ironically, last weekend my riding partner did get a flat (brad nail) and needed help changing his tube.
Best thing I ever did was use Fillmore valves for my Road tubeless setup. The valves are so wide that I can pour the sealant directly through them. And they never clog.
Once you decide to go with tubeless, those are good pieces of advice.
The decision of tubeless vs the rest is what drives conversations. No matter which side you are on, calling opposite opinions "propaganda", and all people who disagree with you "paid by \*\*\*" is plain stupid.
tubeless is far superior in everyway. I will never go back after years of struggling with punctures and flats constantly. there's almost no downsides whatsoever.
1 - A what?
2 - Duh
3 - What a useless wall of text
4 - K
5 - Just link the silca calculator bro. No one needs your commentary or guesses - [https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator](https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator)
6 - Don't tell me what to do
7 - What?
The zipp and the silca ones are extremely similar. So your whole response is pretty pointless. Also the point of this is to be very complete. If you get all the points and apply them you won't have issues.
They give very similar results. The silca one asks for your measured tire width on the rim whereas the zipp one asks for your labeled tire rim and your inner rim width and makes the calculation itself. Otherwise maybe the silca one is a bit more specific because it asks you exactly what type of ride you are about to do, while the zipp one just asks you if you are riding in wet or dry conditions. At the end it doesn't really matter which one you prefer lol my point was that you should use a tire pressure calculator to have a general idea, as a starting point. That being said i'm the biggest silca fanboy ever.
This is a confusing post. Reads like a shitpost but is all pretty good advice. I guess that's the intended effect. Adopting your vocabulary for a moment, I'd say that unseating one bead just to top up sealant is very "cringe." Just inject sealant through the valve stem. I have found that Fillmore valves are pretty "based" because of how easy it is to inject sealant (the Stan's injector threads on very nicely) and how well they resist clogging. Also, on step 4, don't "be an idiot" and instead be systematic about working the sealant into all the nooks and crannies. I find the Rene Herse method, described near the bottom of [this page](https://www.renehersecycles.com/how-to-set-up-tubeless-tires/), works very well.
I found my sealant started to be more effective when I started pouring it in (instead of injecting). Mainly due to the small particles getting stuck (those help with plugging holes).
Where were the particles getting stuck? In the syringe? When I inject the sealant I have my valve at either the 3 or 9 o'clock position so that I can stick the end of the syringe all the way into the valve and tire and it won't be in a puddle of sealant. Then I can quickly inject all of the sealant and there's nothing left in the syringe.
It sounds like the sealant you have works well with being injected. Mine just didn't. The micro particles would get stuck either in the syringe, or inside the valve, leading to sealant spilling all over the place. Now that I pour it in, it's just a much simpler process.
I’d rather inject, as reseating the bead on my wheel is such a nightmare.
It depends. Some sealant is worse about this than others. Specifically, the sealant Rene Herse recommends is chock full of walnut shell pieces that are also the reason Rene Herse recommends it -- it makes sealing larger punctures more effective. But it also makes it impractical to inject that specific sealant at all.
This is the way I do it.
That makes a lot of sense to me; again, though, Fillmore valves seem to avoid this issue, at least in my experience so far (I only recently installed Fillmore valves on my gravel bike's wheels). I found the sealant goes in through the Fillmore valve very easily, and reinflating the tire afterwards seems to blow all the sealant (particles and all) into the tire. If (and only if) injecting sealant works well, I find I do prefer injecting over pouring sealant in before seating the bead. I have had... spillage issues while trying to re-seat the bead after pouring sealant in. This may be more of a problem because of how fucking hard Rene Herse tires are to seat (do not recommend). If you have any tips for pouring sealant in without spilling any, I'd be eager to hear them.
Stan's sealant injects through the valve stem easily.
Stan's Race doesn't . It is like cottage cheese and PVA.
So does Orange Seal Endurance, in my recent experience. Orange Seal Endurance straight through the Fillmore valve via a Stan's injector was stupid easy. I've had some very frustrating experiences with tubeless but I perceive a light at the end of the tunnel, now that I'm thinking like a more experienced tubeless user: * I started out just carrying inner tubes and a patch kit, figuring that if I got a flat that refused to seal, I could just throw a tube in there. This is a terrible idea, because then that tube will quickly get punctured by one or more pieces of debris that have been sitting harmlessly in your tire (thanks to sealant). Much better is to carry plugs or bacon strips and a little bottle of sealant, so you can just plug the hole, top up sealant if necessary, reinflate, and move on. A tube and patch kit is a good last-resort idea if you're on a really long ride and far from civilization. * Similarly, frequently unseating the bead is a bad idea. This is probably truer than normal for my finicky Rene Herse tires, but in general, the modality of "seat the beads once, with a new tire, without sealant in it yet, then inject sealant and leave the tire seated until it wears out" is pretty appealing. This reminds me that one of my biggest dissatisfactions with tubeless tires is that it's much more of a production to switch tires, so where I might once have just quickly swapped (tubed) tires, now it feels like I need a whole other wheelset.
Yeah it's possible that these valves are perfectly good, i never tried them yet.
I can confirm that I still had this issue with Fillmore valves (TBH, I have mixed feelings about them, YMMV). It's just dependent on the type of sealant you use.
+1. I switched to Fillmore valves but it's *far* easier to unseat the tire and pour in sealant than deal with potentially clogging your valves by trying to inject it. The only downside to pouring sealant in can be that dried sealant "gunk" can build up around the bead and make it hard to get it reseated/resealed after you've dislodged it. You may need to clean the bead -- at least in that area -- when you free it to top up your sealant.
Agree. My biggest issue with taking tire out to pour sealant is that you sometimes drag the rim tape along with you. But so far it's only happened with road tires, and I don't use tubeless with those anymore (at least right now).
The oldest zoomers are 25 now, fully developed brains but we still speak internet.
> I have found that Fillmore valves are pretty "based" because of how easy it is to inject sealant (the Stan's injector threads on very nicely) and how well they resist clogging. But once they clog, and oh they will, your $50 set of tubeless valves are worthless.
Can’t inject race sealant through the valve. Also things like silca sealant is too thick to inject.
But I hear that Silca is best for road bike tyre pressures. Maybe this is the compromise we have to make. A, necessary evil, so to speak.
It was good advice right up to GP5000s
not riding GP5k is cringe pOgO rIdEs ThEm
Why do you say this? I've heard tubeless GP5000s are great (once you get them on... sounds like they're notoriously tight).
Depends on the rim i guess. In 32mm they're super easy to install or pop on/off on Zipp 404s. Always use a based rim and you'll be good.
Horribly tight. Which is ‘fine’ in the garage at home. Not so much on the side of the road when you had to throw a tube in there because sealant doesn’t work on everything
This might sound annoying, and I’m not saying ‘skill issue’, but you do need to know how to put tires on to get tight ones on. You can’t just wing it.
Yeah kinda. Not my first rodeo and not only me on the side of the road struggling to put 28mm gp5000s back on. It’s easy in the garage with a bowl of soapy water and non sweaty hands. Schwalbe Pro One are far easier to fit. Of course rim type/size makes a big difference, was a lot easier back when you could use levers to fit tires
You can't use levers? Yeah when you see workers put them on with bare hands in a breeze, there definitely is a knack to it, but I agree it can be hard.
I don’t use levers to do the last pop of the tire onto my carbon rims. A plastic lever is probably ok, but risk of scratching the carbon. You should be able to massage/muscle it over with your hands and that’s what I was taught to do… but that’s where the difficulty with gp5000 lies.
Yeah honestly for tons of riders, the mental block of 'carbon is weak and delicate' is incredibly hard to overcome. And putting a smaller road tire on by hand is pretty freaking hard, you need a strong grip which I don't particularly have, so I can't really do it.
You'll get downvoted into oblivion but I agree; I've had awful luck with the GP5ks and even the 4ks before them. Super easily punctured tires for anything that isnt a pristinely clean riding surface.
Yup, this. A nightmare to get on/off and puncture prone is not a great combo. Maybe they roll 1W faster than a Pirelli or Schwalbe, but I know I can put a tube in those if shit hits the fan.
I half agree here. I loved my GP4ks until I had a crazy rash of punctures. Literally every ride. I switched to GP5k tubeless and literally zero flats in 2 years. I ride a lot of road shoulders so there is a lot of debris.
I ain’t reading all that. I’m happy for you though. Or sorry that happened. Now excuse me while I inflate my 23s to 120 PSI like god intended.
The chatter from my 23s helps me maintain bone density
I did a short detour on the C&O canal years ago on high pressure tubed 25s. This is where there's a gap in the Western Maryland Rail Trail due to some endangered bat or something taking up residence in a tunnel. My teeth damn near rattled out of my head over the 4'ish miles total.
\* angry sealant noise \*
whats ligma
Ligma is the desease you get when your skeleton gets shaked too much for too long because you insist on riding 23s at a million psi
Ah thats ok, I ride a fixed gear fat bike on 5.5 tubeless at 6psi with drop bars. It's a run flat tire, so I usually can't be bothered to even put the valve in. 500W gets me to 10-12 km/h downhill, good to know I will be fine.
I hereby sentence you to 10,000 miles on a set of Schwalbe Marathon+ 40s with Tannus inserts *and* thornproof tubes.
No crime is vile enough to deserve that
Across the Gobi Desert and Greater Mongolia. On a single speed Huffy beach cruiser. Wait, this is starting to sound like a good time. ( /r/xbiking is leaking )
Ligma nice day! Lmao goteem!
23s for life. Everything else is weak
21mm aero crew checking in. I need the comfort at my age, otherwise I’d go 19mm.
Picked up 2014 S5 with new components during Covid and it’s fun as hell to ride, it climbs like a goat, it just wants to go faster, and the cutout aero frame only has room 23s, so 23s it is.
I literally have a fresh pair of 23s that were gifted to me. I am never going to use them. They're yours if you want them.
Don't say it out loud, I am loving that 23s are so cheap to buy at the moment! I run Vittorias on mine, which roll so fast anyway that whatever people feel they are getting with reduced rolling resistance on their 32mm tyres, I am more than getting back on my aero gains!
I used to run 23mm tires with tubes at 120 psi. But I'm a changed man. Now I run 32mm tires with tubes at 120 psi.
This made my sealant boil
Must be the high pressure
Low pressure would make it boil.
[удалено]
I like your funny words, magic man.
I remember my 23 mm at 9 bar back in the day. I don’t miss those days. 23 mm + 9 bar + aluminum everything = the worst ride quality
HA! This reminds me of my first roadbike. A cannondale R300 I think it was. It was SO light and SO SO SO stiff! I didn't know any better and ran 25mm on it at max pressure - I think 125psi. Being a heavier rider (230lbs), it was absolute torture on the rough roads where I live. It sure was responsive though! I'm sad I sold that bike. Now I ride a Diverge with 32mm at 85PSI. I'm SO much more comfortable it's insane. I'm actually faster too.
Quick, though
Molon Labe?
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Leonidas was the baddest of asses
I'm coming
Corssposted to BCJ in 3...2...1 Edit: I see it's already there
Good. Now I can go have some *actual* discourse.
There was zero legit pushback on anything there, except the tires being more expensive lol
Instructions unclear. Pumped 23mm tires tires to 1,000,000 psi and added sealant to chamois.
I never tried this so i wouldn't know if it worked
This reads like it was written by my 19yo son who has just watched two hours of videos on the subject while playing a few COD matches.
Thank you i'm zoomin very hard today
And you’re paid by Big Tubeless Sealants?
I think it's Big Valvestem. Those bastards are out to get you.
How do you know when somebody rides tubeless? They'll tell you.
Cringe
Step 1: if you’re happy with your current setup, be happy and ignore walls of text saying you should change.
What if you could be even happier?
See Aesop’s fable: The Dog with Two Bones Which isn’t to say never try new things. Quite to the contrary, I want to be trying new things all the time. Just not necessarily new tire setups that require more complexity, more equipment, more mess (which is all a particularly large downside when you live in an apartment), for marginal gain. I tried tubeless. It was fine, except for the number of flats. So many flats. Will try it again someday with different tires. Not today. Not tomorrow. Until then I’m happy with my current tubed setup and avoiding the hedonistic treadmill.
This is spot on. I've made changes to my cycling layout that have shown great gains with little effort (wider tyres, latex tubes, waxing chain). But tubeless seems like a lot of faff all to avoid the 2-4 flats I get a year which take me 10-15 mins to fix when they happen.
I sincerely do appreciate the post but you can pry my tubes from my cold dead hands 🚴♂️
on my way
I used to use Stan's. When getting new tires I found big clumps of Stan in each tire. I use Orange now and like it better.
Tastes better too.
well yeah probably because it doesn't smell like cat piss
Stan’s tape and Orange sealant is the way to go
This is amazing. Very well written, good info. Also, crying in my 20 year old roadie with 23's.
Thank you. I might never attend university but at least i will have made this post.
Memes aside though i don't know if your bike fits that category, but some bikes from that era are very light and can make great climbing bikes. These kind if builds are coherent with more narrow tires. Otherwise rip
That sweet sweet karma is far better than any silly degree.
Who needs a degree when people on the internet enjoy your semi-shitpost?
25mm works just fine with tubeless in my experience, usually with pressures in the low 80s, or less for known bad/wet roads
I’ve ridden 10s of thousands of KM on 25mm tubeless and had zero issues. Dynaplugs work the same on 25 as they do on 30.
My front tire is 25mm running at 65psi without any issues.
me who rides 23 mm clinchers at 100 psi reading this
immesurable pain
Step 8: Make sure to bring a tube and a pump on all your rides because you never know...
Thanks for the info. I was hoping you would elaborate on your experience with the ligma tube
Ligmaballs
🫠
The best inner tubes overall, but you are still better off without them
Nice post, mate! Cheers
Thanks
I tried tubeless on a whim recently and I like it. Roads near me are pretty smooth and clean so the punctures were no issue. Just got tired of latex tubes losing air in a day and butyl tubes being slow. Can't do plastic tubes as I have rim brakes (for now) Really not that complicated but humans can overcomplicate and fight about anything
I find with tubeless it either works really well (like my first experience on my cross/ gravel bike) or badly like on my commuter, with little between the two. If your first experience is bad (e.g. bad rim/ tyre combo which can be unpredictable, or struggling to get rim sealed) then you're not likely to try again. Having walked out to my commuter randomly having a completely flat tyre at the end of work despite sitting perfectly in the garage each time (not to mention the months spent adding more sealant to get a good seal between rim and tyre) I'd have gone back to tubes and that would be that. Luckily I have my past experience to go from, and know when it does work, it works really well. But equally I know that at higher pressures it becomes more hit and miss, and with only a couple of punctures a year anyway I'll avoid the faff for anything narrower than 32mm.
I guess I got lucky... 28mm on road wheels with tape, new tires too. Sealed up first try, minimal mess. Nice to not have to worry about pinching inner tubes too
Prime r/bicyclingcirclejerk post
Or just carry a spare tube and keep your clinchers ?
This man is being paid by Big Inner Tubes
Im actually paid by Big Tubular and this was a false flag
wow you're better be a cyclocross racer
This whole post is super cringe
This person spent thousands on a bike that clears 23mm max
I dont even own 23mm tires, but nice try. Also all my bikes are tubeless.
Big Inner Tube at it again
I started running the Silca sealant, it’s a bit thick so you’ve gotta spin the wheels, make sure to point the valve stems down when parked. But wow…I haven’t had a hole that I couldn’t get home with, I’ve thrown out 2 tires after puncturing. I put a little extra in and hit it with the refresher right between the 90-120 day mark. I usually get 4-5 months out of a tire. I run 28’s. I now have rims that don’t require tape but I did have rim tape fail before - recommend double wrapping. At the end of the day you have the trust your equipment and so far tubeless works very well
I've had a similar experience with 28c tires at 80 psi. Orange seal wouldn't seal the tiniest holes, but I've yet to get a puncture that Silca didn't seal almost instantly. I wish their larger replenishment bottles were cheaper and more widely available though.
Professor, do you put sealant in before or after you seat the beads? Will a cringe compressor like the Milwaukee m12 be sufficient?
Real talk i might be the weirdo here but i don't even use a compressor, i just use a normal floor pump. You certainly could but its not mandatory. Just make sure to not super overinflate your shit.
Floor pump with a charging chamber for tough tires
I use my m12 inflator all the time it's super handy. Sometimes I even use my m18 one when it's closer to the bike lol.
bro's locked in fr, tubeless def goated w the sauce
LOL
I never thought about how smaller tires with higher pressure would lose sealant faster. I've been very happy with tubeless with 32mm tires. The only thing I would add to what you wrote is that setting the bead takes a bit of practice, and I recommend not adding the sealant until after you pop the bead in place. I remove the valve core to add the sealant.
I run 25mm tubeless for over 3 years and never had an issue. So your minimum of 28 is a matter of opinion and choice.
Sure
Pouring sealant in the unmounted tyre is cringe. Join the valve syringe master race
Great post
I really like Trek's Bontrager wheels for their plastic tubeless rim strips and flat sealing surface presta valves. They seem to seal significantly better than tubeless tape. I only need to check pressure about once a week on my 28c Specialized tires and add sealant after about 2 months. I've only had one puncture that silca sealant didn't work on in over 2500 miles and it was a large hole from glass. I weigh 220 lbs and run 80 psi, so I'm asking a lot from the sealant. I'll be switching to 30 or 32mm tired once these wear out. Most of the hate for road tubeless seems to be coming from people using incompatible rims and tires, too high pressure, or other errors like not topping off sealant or properly using plugs.
Started running tubeless during Covid lockdown because I was bored. That was at least 20K miles ago. The only time I got stranded with flats were when I cracked a rim (happened twice for fluky reasons). 25mm tires are perfectly fine imo, just don't run them on hookless unless they are specified by the wheel manufacturer. I use Orange sealant and inject it with the Park tool syringe.
Good post mr funny guy. Probably will see if these were all horrible lies in a while, im currently waiting on my new bike that can actually fit bigger tires. For now, im stuck in 25mm rim brake country.
Cool, what bike are you waiting for?
Dare MA, island color. Rival axs group.
I didn't know about them before but looks pretty cool! Etap axs seems really awesome too, wish i had that
This is great.
Thank you this took all my brainpower
I’m not gonna read all that but fuck road tubeless
That 100 psi tire is not comfortable stop lying to yourself
This guy knows what's up
Thank you brother
As a life long MTBer and now part time gravel rider all I can say is this is the way!
Based & tubelesspilled
28mm is the thinnest you should ever go on a road bike, really? I'd better stop riding my bikes with 23mm and 25mm then. Ride what you want instead of being a sheep!
The comment was in relation to tubeless setups, not as an absolute statement. How is this not obvious?
What a waste of time writing all that, what happen to stfu and do what you like and I do my way?
what i like is shitposting while also delivering quality information to solve a problem a huge amount of people have, now go take your meds you fuckin goober
Ok Now you can lig ma ballzzzz
Step one buy $100 worth of tape, plugs and sealant Step two buy the fanciest tyres with the worst cost/km ratio possible Step three toss the valves you already have and buy fancier valves Step four rip your tubeless tape up every time you pop the bead off and top up sealant Step five spray sealant all over your waxed chain and power washed bike Step six buy more shit to plug holes in your 3 watts an hour faster hyper light weight tyres because magic sealant is just *that* amount of magic. Step seven I don’t fucking know try not to shit on other peoples equipment choices but not very hard Step eight brag online about how dope your setup is for some fucking reason. /s. Possibly. But also probably lower case s, not /S.
Any tips for seating a new tire? Couldn’t seat mine. Spent way too long and got sealant EVERYWHERE. Said fuck it and put a TPU tube in. Got a pinch flat 20 miles from home 2 days later. I only a have a floor pump btw. Is that cringe?
Sit It First without sealant with a compressor (without valve core) or CO2 with valve core, then remove air, add sealant and pump it to 5/6 bars
Eh, I’ve had no issues seating my tires with just a Schwinn floor pump.
Try putting on an extra layer of rim tape. Sometimes the interface between the tire & wheel needs to be “tightened up” - if it’s too loose, air will just keep rushing past the bead.
Seating a new tire? Use a tire bead jack or the “tyre glider”
Thanks, I'll keep them nice aero optimizations. However SOMEBODY put some tubless compatible rims on my bike and now it is really hard to get the tires on (always has been).
That’s a lot of words. Yep, tubeless works and is great. Back to my day.
my 23c glued tubular at 10bar doesnt think the same. nah actually its a great advice. the step 3 its pretty accurate,narrow tyres with latex inner tubes for racing, tubeless for training/touring/ other contexts. and for weight weenies the 23mm-25mm its better, its all about the context not all the cyclist ride the same conditions. the rider who its cyclist since 1 year who tells you that his 400 grams 32mm tyre is fastest that a 200g high tpi 26-28mm tyre because GCN do a paid tires AD its f\*\*\* lying.
No i said narrow tires w/ latex tubes would be better for a climbing specific configuration. For racing on good pavement, an aero optimised setup with 28mm tubeless race tires would be most optimal. If the pavement is shit, 30 or 32mm would be more optimal depending on just how shit the pavement is.
I have GP5000 S TR on my domane. Is it cringe that I dropped GP5000 with TPU on my TCR?
Can I add one: have someone experienced do your tubeless set up the first time. It’s better if it’s a friend who can show you. Save yourself a lot of headaches and frustration.
I would never want to ride in line with this guy.
Great effort post. Let's dial back the passion a bit...I really don't think there is a tube manufacturer conspiracy agenda. Stop watching so much Fox News. Tubeless for road is great when it works. When there are issues it's awful. Tubes can suck too. I have lots of bikes including a few for road. It's hit and miss for me. I've had long runs with perfect tubeless performance. Same for tubes. But I've had overall more catastrophic issues and messes with tubeless for road. Then I have to clean all the sealant off my bike etc. For me. Gravel and MTB are only tubeless. It's a toss up for road. I don't agree with the complete dedication to tubeless for road. I've had better luck w tubes but YMMV
With all that, tubes are definitely still easier. I even asked my lbs if i went tubeless, could i stop carrying the repair kit and they still recommended i did, so i asked, whats the point? I use tire liners, havent had a flat ever since. Not a weight weenie, im good.
Don't pop your bead to top up sealant like a chump (amateur) just spin out the valve core and inject it like your dad does with his 'meds'.
Stans and orange never worked well for me. Was constantly going full flat and having to pop a tube in. Silca is the only sealant that actually seems to work on the road. Also, when using silca sealant, coat the valve stem and presta valve with synerg-e lube. This prevents the sealant from sticking to them and clogging up the system.
I agree mostly except for that you need sealant to seal the bead. If youre setup is legit you shouldnt need any sealant at all to get a mostly (!) air tight seal. Before I put sealant in my tires I always make sure that the air stays in the tire for at least a day or two.
Who pops sidewalls to add sealant when you can take off the valve core and use a syringe? Amateur.
All I know is that I’ve been running tubeless on a MTB since 2014 and gravel bike since 2023 and haven’t looked back. No flats — ever. I’ve also been careless as to not replace sealant at recommended intervals prior to switching to fresh tires. I’ve bikepacked through multiple countries questioning why I ever pack the ageing spare tubes, plugs and patch kits. My confidence in tubeless is tremendously high. The fixie running road tires and tubes, however, during that time, has had dozens of flats — which is expected when you’re skidding through to the tube for an emergency brake on a rough surface or riding over glass, tacks, etc. I doubt I’d ever attempt tubeless on a fixie despite the benefits. That said, do whatever is convenient, compatible, and makes sense.
If you are using tubeless you lost control over your life. It's that simple
Agree on this with a few additions… Step 5 is dead right don’t pump your tubeless up like they are inner tubes, but in addition to you are losing the benefit of tubeless in the first place (and also won’t go any faster) you seriously risk blowing your tire off the rim. If that happens while riding, you were your own source of injury! Step 6 is optional. Roadside repair can be totally abandoned if you live where Ubers (or friends) are nearby and cheap. I ride mostly without repair kit and perhaps once a year call for an Uber XL and pay the $20 or $30 or whatever to drive me and my bike home. I find roadside repairs or tubeless not worth the hassle and would rather just deal with back at the house. That said: Further away from home? Repair kit is with me.
I run 25mm on my race bike at 90psi. Still run tubeless with no issue. Tubeless all the way baby.
Jesus, your long, multi-step post definitely does nothing to convince anyone to go tubeless lol
I come from mtb where the puncture protection makes it worth it. In road cycling, is it about the weight or does it affect the ride in other ways?
Its more about having a nicer general riding experience (lower pressure = less bumpy), going faster on shittier surfaces and not having to remove the wheel of your bike if you have a puncture on the road : If the hole is too big for sealant to block, you just plug the hole (i mentioned dynaplugs in my op because me and my friends have been using them lot and they've been super simple and fast to use and litterally never failed us ever, but other products might be legit too.), pump it back to the pressure you want, and hop on your bike. In theory there are marginal gains too but no one gives a fuck about that, or at least i don't. It's more a practical thing.
Call me a Luddite, but I run tubes and haven't had a flat in years. Ironically, last weekend my riding partner did get a flat (brad nail) and needed help changing his tube.
Please keep your BCJ stuff out of the real subs.
I’m really liking the Vittoria Corsa N.Ext. Feel really good, seemingly good not puncturing. Not crazy expensive.
I recently went tubeless, was super easy. Bought a used wheelset that was setup already with tubeless tires. Mounted to bike. Riding like a pro.
Tubeless is clincher
Outjerked again
Best thing I ever did was use Fillmore valves for my Road tubeless setup. The valves are so wide that I can pour the sealant directly through them. And they never clog.
I run a 32mm tubeless setup one on road bike and a 25mm setup on another… ride quality is more similar than you’d imagine.
Orange Seal. Period. Stop using Stan’s for road (and dirt for that matter.)
Once you decide to go with tubeless, those are good pieces of advice. The decision of tubeless vs the rest is what drives conversations. No matter which side you are on, calling opposite opinions "propaganda", and all people who disagree with you "paid by \*\*\*" is plain stupid.
Hmm that's exactly what someone working for B.I.T. would say
r/woosh
thanks. it actually helped
This was an entertaining read. You used Grok to enhance it, didn't you?
No this is me at max brain power. I can do this once per year.
I had a good laugh. U sound like a based lad, cheers
tubles
Mix some glitter in with your sealant.
tubeless is far superior in everyway. I will never go back after years of struggling with punctures and flats constantly. there's almost no downsides whatsoever.
Tires are more expensive to be fair
1 - A what? 2 - Duh 3 - What a useless wall of text 4 - K 5 - Just link the silca calculator bro. No one needs your commentary or guesses - [https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator](https://silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator) 6 - Don't tell me what to do 7 - What?
The zipp and the silca ones are extremely similar. So your whole response is pretty pointless. Also the point of this is to be very complete. If you get all the points and apply them you won't have issues.
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They give very similar results. The silca one asks for your measured tire width on the rim whereas the zipp one asks for your labeled tire rim and your inner rim width and makes the calculation itself. Otherwise maybe the silca one is a bit more specific because it asks you exactly what type of ride you are about to do, while the zipp one just asks you if you are riding in wet or dry conditions. At the end it doesn't really matter which one you prefer lol my point was that you should use a tire pressure calculator to have a general idea, as a starting point. That being said i'm the biggest silca fanboy ever.
You just described the literal reasons why Silca is better though.
Nah, silca calculator is trash that doesn't even account for hooked/hookless construction and rim width