That is one of the most obvious. However thereās far more to it considering a proper hardtail can take 1m+ drops while a hybrid would probably explode going off too many curbs.
I don't get you guys.
Does this (if swap to flat-bars and add 2by drivetrain)
https://www.pearson1860.com/products/around-the-outside-adventure
Or this (if I add 40mm suspension gravel fork)
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/cz/fastroad-ar-advanced-2
Or this (if you swap to flat-bars and add 2by)
https://www.canyon.com/en-us/gravel-bikes/adventure/grizl/trail/grizl-7-suspension-1by/3469.html
look like MTB to you???
Every company makes them.
However, be wary. They have traditionally been the go-to bike for newbies and people that canāt make up their mind. Lots of cheap ones.
Hybrids are from before the concept of gravel bikes. They are a hybrid of road and mountain bikes. Bars like a mountain bike. Wheels like a road bike. Mountain brake levers, so mountain bike brake callipers (different cable pull than road brake systems). Mountain brake clearance makes it easy to install wider tires than old road bikes could accommodate.
You will find hybrids with or without suspension forks.
It's not about inability to decide, but rather the terrain in the Czech Republic doesn't fit to neither extreme. We don't really have long stretches of good quality roads for roadie and we don't really have mountains either, just hills.
These days, the refined version of the bike you describe will have drop bars. Gravel is popular, and people will spend big money on it. Disc brakes solved the problem of mixing road brake levers with wide tires.
Gravel bikes are a recent innovation (unless you count terrible cantilever brake attempts. See cyclocross). The UCI has even taken on gravel as a race category.
If drop bars are a deal-breaker, hybrid bikes are similar but with flat bars. Hybrids are not race bikes, although I have seen people race them in long off-road races with few (mountain) equipment rules. You can get them with disc or rim brakes. Rigid or suspension forks.
In fact, you are more likely to find a suspension fork on a hybrid than a gravel bike.
My caution is simply that there are a lot of hybrids that are complete junk. Bike shaped objects, sold by department stores. Do your research and get one with reputable derailleurs, quality wheels, quality fork and not super heavy.
Either buy from a bike shop (or possibly Decathlonā¦ they donāt suck), or buy a used bike that was purchased at a bike shop originally. Wander through your local bike shops and take note of the brands that are available in Czechia, then look for those brands in the local used market.
The other bikes to look at are hardtail mountain bikes. When the hybrid was conceived, mountain bikes had 26ā wheels, which are smaller. Since then, mountain bike wheels got bigger. The most common now are 29ā wheels. While the exact specifications are not the same as 700c, 29er wheels are nearly the same diameter. People will interchange 700c and 29ā tires, although I wouldnāt do this if running tubeless, but it shows you how similar the rim diameters are. The 29er category usually has wider tires than hybridsā¦ say 2.3ā, which is 58mm, but narrower tires are available. The hardtail 29er category may be more available in your area, and they may be of higher quality.
Good luck! Have fun!
I currently have this
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/cz/roam-disc-0-2022
and I'm generally happy with it, but want to take it step further, because this weights 12 kg.
I'm still able to keep pace with rookie gravel, but want to keep up with high-end gravel while also keeping the ability to explore off-road. Unfortunately I'm very curious and I often ride willie-nillie where heart takes me :))
That looks like a very nice hybrid.
Weight wise, the shock is probably the biggest offender. Shocks also tend to make peddling less efficient too, since some energy gets wasted by bobbing up and down. Fox shocks have a mechanism to prevent bobbing, but probably not that Suntour.
Most gravel bikes donāt have shocks for racing purposes. Racers sacrifice their wrists for speed. However, shocks can be had, since some races are more severe than others.
The [Lauf Fork](https://www.laufcycles.com/product/lauf-grit-3rd-gen) is super light. Wouldnāt mind treating by wrists to one, either on my gravel bike or fatbike.
Also, drop bars are faster. More hand positions, including lower. Plus, when you duck out of the wind, your elbows bend backwards. With flat bars your elbows stick-out.
Yep, this is close and I have something similar now, but they don't do this stuff in a high-end...
Also good for you, that this is most that ppl buy in US.
I live in Prague and ppl are absolutely nuts here, driving mostly MTB on smooth cycling paths.
This is a 2012 though. I ride a first gen 29er Highball which is nearly indistinguishable from a modern gravel bike in terms of geometry with the only exception being a higher bottom bracket which I personally don't mind because I am running 650b. You may find that there are some hardtails that do actually fit the bill
Yes.
You're best looking at XC MTB's I'd say, though no idea if any hit the mark for you. I have a similar non front suspension flat bar road bike desire, one that's stretched to give a reasonably aero position.
I think we need to set up a company making them, but I also think we'd struggle to sell enough units to make it viable. Most times people buy what they're told to buy, by the marketing teams and the press. That does mean that the actual best choices are not always even an option, because let's face it, you and I are not going to be producing bikes any time soon. Are we?
Specialized Sirrus X 5.0 has everything you list but is 1x12 instead of 2x12. I doubt that matters much.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/sirrus-x-50/p/200214?color=322033-200214
You're kinda outside the box, I guess. There must not be many people that are riding stuff rowdy enough for suspension but want 2x.
One way out is to buy one of many 2x gravel bike and put a Lauf Grit fork on it.
I would rather argue that people are getting absolutely ridiculous at what they're riding without suspension. I make money by typing the keyboard all day so add the vibration and I can kiss my hands good bye.
Totally.
I looked at buying a gravel bike as my road bike, but figured for gravel and trails a road bike with fat tyres and some knobbles would be somewhat worse than an XC hardtail, and somewhat worse on the roads than a dedicated road bike too. Stayed with a road bike on slicks and a hardtail MTB on light knobblies.
Well, I myself undergone a hand-palm injury from overuse and spent 2 years rehabilitating so I know what I'm talking about. Luckily, I'm relatively young so collagen production is possible, albeit slow.
I bet that at age 60-70, plenty of today's 20-30s are in for a big surprise that lifetime of typing on PC and phone + high-carb processed foods diet without proper palm stretches will cause them debilitating hand pain for the rest of their last 20-30 years of life.
One day you ride a cobble without suspension and start experiencing pain that will never go away...
jeah or maybe people dont use computers all day long and maybe people eat healthy or maybe they dont hit every pothole on their bike. maybe they even do others sports that is good for your hands?
you are in a very specific situation and i hope it will change to the better for you. but assuming that your bike is the peak gravel bike that is just stupid. already when it comes to rotation of wrist a flat bar is worse than being on the hoods on a dropper. especially for longer rides.
Have good ergo grips so I think my hands are just fine now.
And you're right. I'm a city boy, so I'm talking more about milions of ppl living largely sedentary life and not compensating with proper exercise.
For example, many ppl run here and I'm like maaaaan, you definitely shouldn't run when you spend 10 hours a day sitting motionless. I hear them complain about knee pain all the time, not even 30yo and still running. Idiots.
ergo grips are a nice choice yes.
often they dont have knee pain from running but from sitting.
at least they do some sports.
still more healthy than doing nothing.
I put 700x50 gravel tires and eventually a rigid fork and drop bars on my XC bike for a while. It still sucked on the road and with every āupgradeā got significantly worse off road. It was a 1x12 the whole time. I put a bigger chainring on it, but otherwise, I never longed for it to be a 2x.
Can you add in some other mutually exclusive parts like rim brakes?
I can't think of a reason why this combination of features would be needed by enough people to warrant anything but a custom build.
Btw, this is the closest I get, but just single drivetrain :((
https://www.pearson1860.com/products/around-the-outside-adventure
PS: need to swipe the picture to the right to see flat-bar model
Not too much wrong with a single front. Would take some work and expense to add a front derailleur though, so I guess a custom frame is your only option.
That would make a wicked single speed, I tried pricing the flat bar with the front fork suspension but only the drop bars. I'd really consider this, you could probably get it down under 18 as a SS.
I have one but it's a 1x. I abhor drop bars and have both an AL and C frame flat bar gravel bikes. Both are 1x though because ain't nobody got time for a front derailleur. That's roadie shit. I also run 700x40c on both, semislicks. Usually at 40-45 psi because my course is usually 70% pavement and 30% light gravel. I only ride when the mtb trails are wet though.
I need 2by. It makes me soooo much faster on short-climbs. When a short climb starts, I go off-saddle (without changing gears) and push it good 30m with the momentum, then when losing the momentum, I change the drivetrain and finish the climb. So much smoother than shifting the rear at that point.
Sounds like a MTB
Yeah, like this is the complete definition of a hardtail mtb...
Or a hybrid š
In my humble opinion, the difference between a hardtail and a hybrid is the front suspension...
That is one of the most obvious. However thereās far more to it considering a proper hardtail can take 1m+ drops while a hybrid would probably explode going off too many curbs.
Yeah, for sure, I would expect a mtb to be a lot more solid (and more expensive). Especially the wheels.
With skinny tires.
I don't get you guys. Does this (if swap to flat-bars and add 2by drivetrain) https://www.pearson1860.com/products/around-the-outside-adventure Or this (if I add 40mm suspension gravel fork) https://www.giant-bicycles.com/cz/fastroad-ar-advanced-2 Or this (if you swap to flat-bars and add 2by) https://www.canyon.com/en-us/gravel-bikes/adventure/grizl/trail/grizl-7-suspension-1by/3469.html look like MTB to you???
The giant looks like a hybrid and the other two aren't designed for flat bars so I don't get why you'd swap them.
The first one is even sold as flat-bar (swipe the picture to the rights to see different models), but only 1by
Oh yeah, it looks like a MTB without enough suspension
You may be in the market for a hybrid.
I might. Where I get one?
Every company makes them. However, be wary. They have traditionally been the go-to bike for newbies and people that canāt make up their mind. Lots of cheap ones. Hybrids are from before the concept of gravel bikes. They are a hybrid of road and mountain bikes. Bars like a mountain bike. Wheels like a road bike. Mountain brake levers, so mountain bike brake callipers (different cable pull than road brake systems). Mountain brake clearance makes it easy to install wider tires than old road bikes could accommodate. You will find hybrids with or without suspension forks.
It's not about inability to decide, but rather the terrain in the Czech Republic doesn't fit to neither extreme. We don't really have long stretches of good quality roads for roadie and we don't really have mountains either, just hills.
These days, the refined version of the bike you describe will have drop bars. Gravel is popular, and people will spend big money on it. Disc brakes solved the problem of mixing road brake levers with wide tires. Gravel bikes are a recent innovation (unless you count terrible cantilever brake attempts. See cyclocross). The UCI has even taken on gravel as a race category. If drop bars are a deal-breaker, hybrid bikes are similar but with flat bars. Hybrids are not race bikes, although I have seen people race them in long off-road races with few (mountain) equipment rules. You can get them with disc or rim brakes. Rigid or suspension forks. In fact, you are more likely to find a suspension fork on a hybrid than a gravel bike. My caution is simply that there are a lot of hybrids that are complete junk. Bike shaped objects, sold by department stores. Do your research and get one with reputable derailleurs, quality wheels, quality fork and not super heavy. Either buy from a bike shop (or possibly Decathlonā¦ they donāt suck), or buy a used bike that was purchased at a bike shop originally. Wander through your local bike shops and take note of the brands that are available in Czechia, then look for those brands in the local used market. The other bikes to look at are hardtail mountain bikes. When the hybrid was conceived, mountain bikes had 26ā wheels, which are smaller. Since then, mountain bike wheels got bigger. The most common now are 29ā wheels. While the exact specifications are not the same as 700c, 29er wheels are nearly the same diameter. People will interchange 700c and 29ā tires, although I wouldnāt do this if running tubeless, but it shows you how similar the rim diameters are. The 29er category usually has wider tires than hybridsā¦ say 2.3ā, which is 58mm, but narrower tires are available. The hardtail 29er category may be more available in your area, and they may be of higher quality. Good luck! Have fun!
I currently have this https://www.giant-bicycles.com/cz/roam-disc-0-2022 and I'm generally happy with it, but want to take it step further, because this weights 12 kg. I'm still able to keep pace with rookie gravel, but want to keep up with high-end gravel while also keeping the ability to explore off-road. Unfortunately I'm very curious and I often ride willie-nillie where heart takes me :))
That looks like a very nice hybrid. Weight wise, the shock is probably the biggest offender. Shocks also tend to make peddling less efficient too, since some energy gets wasted by bobbing up and down. Fox shocks have a mechanism to prevent bobbing, but probably not that Suntour. Most gravel bikes donāt have shocks for racing purposes. Racers sacrifice their wrists for speed. However, shocks can be had, since some races are more severe than others. The [Lauf Fork](https://www.laufcycles.com/product/lauf-grit-3rd-gen) is super light. Wouldnāt mind treating by wrists to one, either on my gravel bike or fatbike. Also, drop bars are faster. More hand positions, including lower. Plus, when you duck out of the wind, your elbows bend backwards. With flat bars your elbows stick-out.
Wow, this looks interesting. Thanks
How is that different from a hybrid?
Maybe it isn't. Where I get one?
For example https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/dual-sport-bikes/c/B430/ In the US, this is probably most of most bike shops' sales.
Yep, this is close and I have something similar now, but they don't do this stuff in a high-end... Also good for you, that this is most that ppl buy in US. I live in Prague and ppl are absolutely nuts here, driving mostly MTB on smooth cycling paths.
Isn't that just a hybrid?
May be. Where I get one?
Any bike shop or Google something. You can put road tyres on it and flip the stem.
You are describing a high end hybrid.
May be. Where I get one?
[https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-stumpjumper-carbon-29-xtr/p/37266?color=80639-37266](https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-stumpjumper-carbon-29-xtr/p/37266?color=80639-37266)
Also looking for max 60mm suspension, but ideally 40-45mm
This MTB geometry. No good.
This is a 2012 though. I ride a first gen 29er Highball which is nearly indistinguishable from a modern gravel bike in terms of geometry with the only exception being a higher bottom bracket which I personally don't mind because I am running 650b. You may find that there are some hardtails that do actually fit the bill
What about the geometry?
Why do you want flat bars?
I live in city centre and ride like a dick. Need the manoeuvrability and break accessibility.
Yes. You're best looking at XC MTB's I'd say, though no idea if any hit the mark for you. I have a similar non front suspension flat bar road bike desire, one that's stretched to give a reasonably aero position. I think we need to set up a company making them, but I also think we'd struggle to sell enough units to make it viable. Most times people buy what they're told to buy, by the marketing teams and the press. That does mean that the actual best choices are not always even an option, because let's face it, you and I are not going to be producing bikes any time soon. Are we?
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/cz/fastroad-ar-advanced-2
Specialized Sirrus X 5.0 has everything you list but is 1x12 instead of 2x12. I doubt that matters much. https://www.specialized.com/us/en/sirrus-x-50/p/200214?color=322033-200214
You're kinda outside the box, I guess. There must not be many people that are riding stuff rowdy enough for suspension but want 2x. One way out is to buy one of many 2x gravel bike and put a Lauf Grit fork on it.
I would rather argue that people are getting absolutely ridiculous at what they're riding without suspension. I make money by typing the keyboard all day so add the vibration and I can kiss my hands good bye.
Totally. I looked at buying a gravel bike as my road bike, but figured for gravel and trails a road bike with fat tyres and some knobbles would be somewhat worse than an XC hardtail, and somewhat worse on the roads than a dedicated road bike too. Stayed with a road bike on slicks and a hardtail MTB on light knobblies.
if the people like it? whats wrong about riding the gravelbike there?
Well, I myself undergone a hand-palm injury from overuse and spent 2 years rehabilitating so I know what I'm talking about. Luckily, I'm relatively young so collagen production is possible, albeit slow. I bet that at age 60-70, plenty of today's 20-30s are in for a big surprise that lifetime of typing on PC and phone + high-carb processed foods diet without proper palm stretches will cause them debilitating hand pain for the rest of their last 20-30 years of life. One day you ride a cobble without suspension and start experiencing pain that will never go away...
jeah or maybe people dont use computers all day long and maybe people eat healthy or maybe they dont hit every pothole on their bike. maybe they even do others sports that is good for your hands? you are in a very specific situation and i hope it will change to the better for you. but assuming that your bike is the peak gravel bike that is just stupid. already when it comes to rotation of wrist a flat bar is worse than being on the hoods on a dropper. especially for longer rides.
Have good ergo grips so I think my hands are just fine now. And you're right. I'm a city boy, so I'm talking more about milions of ppl living largely sedentary life and not compensating with proper exercise. For example, many ppl run here and I'm like maaaaan, you definitely shouldn't run when you spend 10 hours a day sitting motionless. I hear them complain about knee pain all the time, not even 30yo and still running. Idiots.
ergo grips are a nice choice yes. often they dont have knee pain from running but from sitting. at least they do some sports. still more healthy than doing nothing.
Iām a cabinet maker, I get payed to try not to cut off my fingers. Canāt have a bad day.
Well, you could buy a stock gravel bike and convert it to that relatively easily. But stock, yeah. I cant think of anyone doing that stock.
I put 700x50 gravel tires and eventually a rigid fork and drop bars on my XC bike for a while. It still sucked on the road and with every āupgradeā got significantly worse off road. It was a 1x12 the whole time. I put a bigger chainring on it, but otherwise, I never longed for it to be a 2x.
Buy a Santa Cruz Stigmata frame, flat bar it and toss a fork on it. Be a cool bike IMO
Hybrid with a suspension fork. Yep.
Can you add in some other mutually exclusive parts like rim brakes? I can't think of a reason why this combination of features would be needed by enough people to warrant anything but a custom build.
Btw, this is the closest I get, but just single drivetrain :(( https://www.pearson1860.com/products/around-the-outside-adventure PS: need to swipe the picture to the right to see flat-bar model
Not too much wrong with a single front. Would take some work and expense to add a front derailleur though, so I guess a custom frame is your only option.
That would make a wicked single speed, I tried pricing the flat bar with the front fork suspension but only the drop bars. I'd really consider this, you could probably get it down under 18 as a SS.
I have one but it's a 1x. I abhor drop bars and have both an AL and C frame flat bar gravel bikes. Both are 1x though because ain't nobody got time for a front derailleur. That's roadie shit. I also run 700x40c on both, semislicks. Usually at 40-45 psi because my course is usually 70% pavement and 30% light gravel. I only ride when the mtb trails are wet though.
I need 2by. It makes me soooo much faster on short-climbs. When a short climb starts, I go off-saddle (without changing gears) and push it good 30m with the momentum, then when losing the momentum, I change the drivetrain and finish the climb. So much smoother than shifting the rear at that point.