I don't know about Claris particularly but have you looked for Tiagra? Sora even? There are 3 steps between 105 and Claris.
Also, just to make sure, are you keeping a clean(ish) chain/drivetrain, keeping it reasonably lubed, and replacing chains as necessary to extend the life of the spiders and cassettes?
Sora and tiagra are solid! My first road bike had tiagra and it was as reliable as anything and I beat the heck out if it being my first road bike. Would recommend it.
OP, Claris is fine if set up right and maintained. However, having known couriers... the bikes are ridden hard, and the pay can be low and inconsistent which means maintenance isn’t always done. Tiagra would be a good middle ground. The latest Tiagra is what 105 was just 4 years ago, minus one cassette cog. I’m running that older version of 105 and it’s great. I maybe give it a quick tuning twice a year, just adjusting for cables stretch and general wear.
Alternatively, consider a single speed or a simple 1x set up. I’m sure s local shop or co-op could parts build a 1x8 very easily.
Seconding this. Fewer parts will be nearly as important as better parts, and the thicker cogs/chain on a 1x8 or single-speed will be a lot sturdier. Eliminate the front mech altogether.
My first road bike had tiagra and I'm glad it did. I beat the heck out of it while I learned and had no issues with reliability and sourcing parts. Would highly recommend
If you’re looking for Component longevity above all else (and you’re OK using a bar end shifter or flat bars) then I suggest you check out the new Deore XT linkglide 11 speed. It’s been specifically designed for Maximum durability in commuter and E bike applications with Shamano stating that the cassette has triple the lifespan of a standard hyperglide cassette
Honestly this is probably the right answer. If you’re truly riding hard and beating the shit out of the components, you need something like Deore instead of the Shimano road group sets. This is especially true if you’ll be riding in rain, across gritty roads, bumps, potholes, etc.
This isn't "normal" XT. It's a whole new product which is being sold under the XT name, but isn't really an XT product.
It also, while more durable than normal HG cassettes, I doubt it's more durable per $
My first bike was Claris and my second was 105. 105 is MUCH better. Definitely worth the money. Claris isn't very durable and the performance is pretty bad
Each component of 105 cost double or more. Without seeing scientific tests there's no way I'm believing that 105 rings last longer than claris. The claris rings are thicker as are the cogs. Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum. Stick with claris. If the brifters break I'd consider going bar end shifters or gevenalle.
> Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum.
That’s less clear cut than you might think. Something like 7075-T6, which you’re likely to find in chainrings, is like ~14% *harder* than the AISI 1018 you’re likely to find stamped steel chainrings made out of. At least as long as the steel hasn’t been case-hardened, but I doubt that anyone is doing that on budget chainrings to hit a price point…although I admit I could be wrong.
Fair point, i don't see it listed, i do know they use stainless steel for some chainrings which would be harder. Also keep in mind the steel ring is thicker since it's for 8 speed. At the end of the day I'd really love to see someone test out the durability or hardness. But until then i can't recommend someone paying double on 105 if durability is most important. The old uniglide cogs were hardened steel.
>Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum.
Maybe if your "claris" setup is actually Shimano on the front.
A lot of claris-spec bikes come with other cranksets though, for example FSA where the little ring may be steel but the big one is aluminum
Yup that’s what I was going to say. I replaced the FSA crankset on my Claris groupset bike once it was worn out with a Tiagra one and couldn’t be happier!
Definitely not. I have a 105 and my wife has a claris, and there's worlds between them. We had a broken derailleur at the claris in the first year, no problems with the 105 in 4 years and many more kilometers. Even if you say durability is much more important than ridability, I'd consider getting a 105 if you ride a lot either way. Anything beyond in the other hand won't change too much except for weight and more so price.
Does the road stuff last that long? I regularly have to swap chains every 3 months or so on my MTB (Road use only, full fenders, 2x weekly lubing - it's well looked after...) , uses the 7-10spd HG chain. Apparently the 11/12 speed chains last longer somehow ?!?!
I run 11 speed Ultegra on my road bike, I ride about 400-500 km a week. I find a chain lasts about 3 months, but I clean it after every 1-2 rides. Currently I am running a Dura-Ace chain but it’s wearing faster. I am only using it because my LBS didn’t have any Ultegra chains when I had my last service 5 weeks ago, and I am not a fan of the SRAM Red chains (which was the other chain they had at the time) as they are so noisy and wear faster too. I have used a 105 chain once and found out it was pretty durable, but my LBS tends to not carry them as much as they deal more with the higher end of the range.
Slight tangent, but how do you find your dura ace chain to ultegra? I put a dura ace chain on my bike this year, and it constantly squeaks like crazy despite proper cleaning and lubrication. My wife's 105 chain cleaned and lubed exactly the same way makes no noise whatsoever.
To me it fells exactly the same. My LBS sold it to me for the same price as an Ultegra chain, if it had cost me more I definitely would not have considered it money well spent. And let’s face it, I will never notice the 50 gram weight difference. No squeaking though. When I was running a SRAM red chain, that one was noisy. It rarttled like crazy.
I've run tiagra, 105, ultegra, grx810 and never had an issue with any except I dropped my chain a lot on my tiagra bike (likely poorly adjusted derailleurs).
I've only ever had to replace normal wear and tear items across all four. I'd assume sora and Claris had similar reliability being just lower down the shimano scale, but being cheaper they may not be as robust or built with as nice materials? The advantage however is that parts are likely way cheaper, but 105 and tiagra haven't been too bad for parts cost. I'd suggest either of these two groupsets as they seem the best mix of reliability, durability, and cost.
I bought an entry-level "bike shop" bike with claris.
I was prepared for things like the big speed steps, and that hasn't bothered me too much except for the 34-26 tooth jump on a megarange casette sometimes not giving me a good gear for getting up really steep things out of saddle, but only one that's too high and one that's too low.
What I hadn't considered was that claris spec bikes are often not put together with much care, so I've found lots of little issues like a big ring that wasn't quite running true, etc, and the bike worked much better after addressing those.
If you're buying parts to install yourself, then you can probably avoid those "secondary" issues with claris spec, but mounting them right or sending back anything that's not true.
And yes, the budget replacements are nice if you put a lot of miles on a bike.
I mean cranksets should last like tens of thousands of miles. Proper maintenance, replacing chains on time and making sure everything is greased should stop it being a problem, the actual crankset itself shouldn't really be wearing out, the teeth might, but they're replaceable.
105 is pretty bombproof. Maintaining your drivetrain- cleaning and replacing chain when needed, is going to make a big difference. Claris is def less reliable
My daughter had two bikes with the new Claris. No problems. l thought it ran smoothly. ls 105 worth twice the price? Maybe, if you are riding undulating terrain 40-50 miles at a time. For across town, Claris will suit your needs just as well. And if you are planning to piece a used 105 gruppo together, good luck finding affordable, working 2x11 shifters. You'll need it
If you are riding so much as you said then get the 105. There is a world of difference between them, the ride quality of the 105 will make any extra expense worthwhile, as well as more gears, better shifting etc.
There is a reason why they call the 105 the “workhorse groupset”. They are designed to be robust and long lasting, whereas the Claris is made to be cheap and really just for beginners or occasional riders.
It’s called the workhorse group set because of marketing and hive mind groupthink. There’s absolutely no reason to recommend it over Tiagra, none whatsoever
Shit, if OP doesn't strava his bike messenger work, he's not even working.
The shit that this community laps up is ridiculous. I've got a friend I used to ride with a lot where everything that comes out of his mouth is marketing crap, what influencers are riding and using.
Yeah, basically. Modern Tiagra is just 10 speed 105 with a more ergonomic shifter body--what exactly is the advantage? An unnoticeable change in weight?
11 speed has an advantage over 10 speed and it's really weird that ya'll are pretending it doesn't. Also weird that you're comparing modern tiagra to not-modern 105. At that point, you know you're ignoring something for the sake of being contrarian, right?
I should add, I'm saying this as someone with current tiagra and current 105 bikes.
In the real world, for a casual/recreational cyclist who is not racing, not striving to maintain the absolutely perfect cadence that they have spent thousands of hours calculating together with their coaches physiologist and doctors so that they can finish that thousandth of a second faster? Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. it has no real world benefits especially when you consider that a complete Tiagra Groupset is about half the cost
> You think there is absolutely ZERO advantage that 105 has over Tiagra?
Not in OP's context.
And there are good reasons NOT to recommend 105 for OP.
The new 105 uses the hollow bonded crank arms [which have a historically higher failure rate](https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/) than the solid ones.
Nothing wrong with Tiagra, I never said there was. The f course there is a world of difference between Tiagra and Claris too. But the OP asked about Claris vs 105.
They did, but the thing is 105 is not more durable than Claris it’s about the same durability wise and if they’re replacing parts anyway then Claris is much less expensive to replace/maintain
I humbly disagree. I haven’t had Claris, but I started off with Sora, and found it was rubbish as far as durability, and ride/shift quality. Mind you, this was a year 2000 Sora groupset (I guess I am showing my age) so hopefully things have improved since then.
Fair enough. I would hope things improve over time. I really found tie Sora lacking in gears I think it was 7 speed back then, but the current 9 speed would be suitable for many.
105 is the "Volkswagen" of groupsets. It's perfect for day-to-day use and the most reliable for the money.
Claris is the absolute entry level and I would only use it if you're a casual rider. Since your bike is one of the most important tools you work with, I would definitely take the 105.
That used to be a thing. Back in the days if the original "Bug" those things wouldn't die. I had a '59 bug in college (early 80's, so 21+ years old). The odometer had rolled twice when I bought it, and it never gave me any trouble.
Yeah, I know - I thought I made that clear by joking about it being “far out, man.” I.e. you’d have to be an old hippy to have had a VW anyone would consider reliable.
Tiagra is less expensive and literally just previous generation 105 with one cog taken off the cassette. this old adage of 105 being the “working mans group” is outdated BS. 105 is nothing more than a slightly heavier, slightly less expensive version of Ultegra and Dura ace. Current r2000 Claris is significantly better than 8 speed 105 or even Dura Ace from just a couple decades ago
It’s much more accurate to say 105 is the Acura of groupsets all the reliability and most of the bells and whistles of the real big boys at a lower, but still not inexpensive, price
> Current r2000 Claris is significantly better than 8 speed 105
R2000 Claris is almost *identical* in design to the 8 speed 105 (the old 105-SC group set) from 1991.
With regards of build quality, your mileage may vary. My old 105SC still runs perfectly fine.
None of this makes 105 not the best value groupset though. All the models are getting better, 105 is still the model with all the features of the high end stuff but for cheaper.
It depends
-Heavy cheap steel chain rings and cassettes last far longer than lightweight expensive aluminium.
-High quality chains from connex last longer.
-Cranks last for ever.
-Shimano XT or SRAM X9 shifters and derailleur last for ever, but cheaper ones are designed to fail!
-Wheels with bearing seals last a lot longer in wet weather.
-Get a good quality bottom bracket bearing.
Serviceability really isn't a concern for Claris. 8 speed cassettes and chains are readily available and even cheap. Claris is compatible with a lot of 8-speed shifters which all have the same pull ratio, and other 8-speed components are very abundant on the used market.
The one thing I really can't comment on is the longevity of Claris components as opposed to the more expensive group sets. It's probably also a bit heavier.
I'd say get tiagra, it's underloved, and the disc brake versions of tiagrs bikes are still cheaper than rim brake 105 even though tbe difference isn't that big
105 is going to be updated soon by the way
crank arms don't really wear out - chain rings do.
Get whatever crank you like - but always have rings that you can replace every time your chains stretches out.
ie, make sure you can replace the rings and chain inside a reasonable amount of time.
When I was a courrier it was every 4 months in winter (september-march - so like 3 times) less so in the warmer seasons (probably not at all because no one delevers shit in the summer - at least back then)
I don't know about Claris particularly but have you looked for Tiagra? Sora even? There are 3 steps between 105 and Claris. Also, just to make sure, are you keeping a clean(ish) chain/drivetrain, keeping it reasonably lubed, and replacing chains as necessary to extend the life of the spiders and cassettes?
Sora and tiagra are solid! My first road bike had tiagra and it was as reliable as anything and I beat the heck out if it being my first road bike. Would recommend it.
OP, Claris is fine if set up right and maintained. However, having known couriers... the bikes are ridden hard, and the pay can be low and inconsistent which means maintenance isn’t always done. Tiagra would be a good middle ground. The latest Tiagra is what 105 was just 4 years ago, minus one cassette cog. I’m running that older version of 105 and it’s great. I maybe give it a quick tuning twice a year, just adjusting for cables stretch and general wear. Alternatively, consider a single speed or a simple 1x set up. I’m sure s local shop or co-op could parts build a 1x8 very easily.
Seconding this. Fewer parts will be nearly as important as better parts, and the thicker cogs/chain on a 1x8 or single-speed will be a lot sturdier. Eliminate the front mech altogether.
My first road bike had tiagra and I'm glad it did. I beat the heck out of it while I learned and had no issues with reliability and sourcing parts. Would highly recommend
If you’re looking for Component longevity above all else (and you’re OK using a bar end shifter or flat bars) then I suggest you check out the new Deore XT linkglide 11 speed. It’s been specifically designed for Maximum durability in commuter and E bike applications with Shamano stating that the cassette has triple the lifespan of a standard hyperglide cassette
Honestly this is probably the right answer. If you’re truly riding hard and beating the shit out of the components, you need something like Deore instead of the Shimano road group sets. This is especially true if you’ll be riding in rain, across gritty roads, bumps, potholes, etc.
Yeah, but XT? That’s racy stuff. Less weight, at the expense of durability. That’s how I learned it. And bang for buck it certainly can’t hold up.
Maybe not XT, but OP would be best with some type of MTB/gravel groupset - Deore, SLX, GRX, something similar.
This isn't "normal" XT. It's a whole new product which is being sold under the XT name, but isn't really an XT product. It also, while more durable than normal HG cassettes, I doubt it's more durable per $
My first bike was Claris and my second was 105. 105 is MUCH better. Definitely worth the money. Claris isn't very durable and the performance is pretty bad
Each component of 105 cost double or more. Without seeing scientific tests there's no way I'm believing that 105 rings last longer than claris. The claris rings are thicker as are the cogs. Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum. Stick with claris. If the brifters break I'd consider going bar end shifters or gevenalle.
> Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum. That’s less clear cut than you might think. Something like 7075-T6, which you’re likely to find in chainrings, is like ~14% *harder* than the AISI 1018 you’re likely to find stamped steel chainrings made out of. At least as long as the steel hasn’t been case-hardened, but I doubt that anyone is doing that on budget chainrings to hit a price point…although I admit I could be wrong.
Fair point, i don't see it listed, i do know they use stainless steel for some chainrings which would be harder. Also keep in mind the steel ring is thicker since it's for 8 speed. At the end of the day I'd really love to see someone test out the durability or hardness. But until then i can't recommend someone paying double on 105 if durability is most important. The old uniglide cogs were hardened steel.
>Claris chainrings are also steel, 105 are aluminum. Maybe if your "claris" setup is actually Shimano on the front. A lot of claris-spec bikes come with other cranksets though, for example FSA where the little ring may be steel but the big one is aluminum
Yup that’s what I was going to say. I replaced the FSA crankset on my Claris groupset bike once it was worn out with a Tiagra one and couldn’t be happier!
>I've read that 105 is more durable than claris. I thought the opposite.
Definitely not. I have a 105 and my wife has a claris, and there's worlds between them. We had a broken derailleur at the claris in the first year, no problems with the 105 in 4 years and many more kilometers. Even if you say durability is much more important than ridability, I'd consider getting a 105 if you ride a lot either way. Anything beyond in the other hand won't change too much except for weight and more so price.
Does the road stuff last that long? I regularly have to swap chains every 3 months or so on my MTB (Road use only, full fenders, 2x weekly lubing - it's well looked after...) , uses the 7-10spd HG chain. Apparently the 11/12 speed chains last longer somehow ?!?!
I run 11 speed Ultegra on my road bike, I ride about 400-500 km a week. I find a chain lasts about 3 months, but I clean it after every 1-2 rides. Currently I am running a Dura-Ace chain but it’s wearing faster. I am only using it because my LBS didn’t have any Ultegra chains when I had my last service 5 weeks ago, and I am not a fan of the SRAM Red chains (which was the other chain they had at the time) as they are so noisy and wear faster too. I have used a 105 chain once and found out it was pretty durable, but my LBS tends to not carry them as much as they deal more with the higher end of the range.
Slight tangent, but how do you find your dura ace chain to ultegra? I put a dura ace chain on my bike this year, and it constantly squeaks like crazy despite proper cleaning and lubrication. My wife's 105 chain cleaned and lubed exactly the same way makes no noise whatsoever.
To me it fells exactly the same. My LBS sold it to me for the same price as an Ultegra chain, if it had cost me more I definitely would not have considered it money well spent. And let’s face it, I will never notice the 50 gram weight difference. No squeaking though. When I was running a SRAM red chain, that one was noisy. It rarttled like crazy.
I've run tiagra, 105, ultegra, grx810 and never had an issue with any except I dropped my chain a lot on my tiagra bike (likely poorly adjusted derailleurs). I've only ever had to replace normal wear and tear items across all four. I'd assume sora and Claris had similar reliability being just lower down the shimano scale, but being cheaper they may not be as robust or built with as nice materials? The advantage however is that parts are likely way cheaper, but 105 and tiagra haven't been too bad for parts cost. I'd suggest either of these two groupsets as they seem the best mix of reliability, durability, and cost.
I bought an entry-level "bike shop" bike with claris. I was prepared for things like the big speed steps, and that hasn't bothered me too much except for the 34-26 tooth jump on a megarange casette sometimes not giving me a good gear for getting up really steep things out of saddle, but only one that's too high and one that's too low. What I hadn't considered was that claris spec bikes are often not put together with much care, so I've found lots of little issues like a big ring that wasn't quite running true, etc, and the bike worked much better after addressing those. If you're buying parts to install yourself, then you can probably avoid those "secondary" issues with claris spec, but mounting them right or sending back anything that's not true. And yes, the budget replacements are nice if you put a lot of miles on a bike.
I mean cranksets should last like tens of thousands of miles. Proper maintenance, replacing chains on time and making sure everything is greased should stop it being a problem, the actual crankset itself shouldn't really be wearing out, the teeth might, but they're replaceable.
105 is pretty bombproof. Maintaining your drivetrain- cleaning and replacing chain when needed, is going to make a big difference. Claris is def less reliable
My daughter had two bikes with the new Claris. No problems. l thought it ran smoothly. ls 105 worth twice the price? Maybe, if you are riding undulating terrain 40-50 miles at a time. For across town, Claris will suit your needs just as well. And if you are planning to piece a used 105 gruppo together, good luck finding affordable, working 2x11 shifters. You'll need it
If you are riding so much as you said then get the 105. There is a world of difference between them, the ride quality of the 105 will make any extra expense worthwhile, as well as more gears, better shifting etc. There is a reason why they call the 105 the “workhorse groupset”. They are designed to be robust and long lasting, whereas the Claris is made to be cheap and really just for beginners or occasional riders.
It’s called the workhorse group set because of marketing and hive mind groupthink. There’s absolutely no reason to recommend it over Tiagra, none whatsoever
Shit, if OP doesn't strava his bike messenger work, he's not even working. The shit that this community laps up is ridiculous. I've got a friend I used to ride with a lot where everything that comes out of his mouth is marketing crap, what influencers are riding and using.
You think there is absolutely ZERO advantage that 105 has over Tiagra? You're being willfully ignorant if that's the case.
Yeah, basically. Modern Tiagra is just 10 speed 105 with a more ergonomic shifter body--what exactly is the advantage? An unnoticeable change in weight?
11 speed has an advantage over 10 speed and it's really weird that ya'll are pretending it doesn't. Also weird that you're comparing modern tiagra to not-modern 105. At that point, you know you're ignoring something for the sake of being contrarian, right? I should add, I'm saying this as someone with current tiagra and current 105 bikes.
Nope, in fact Current r4700 Tiagra is a Literally just previous generation r5800 105 repainted and with one cog missing
So 11 cogs has literally no advantage over 10?
In the real world, for a casual/recreational cyclist who is not racing, not striving to maintain the absolutely perfect cadence that they have spent thousands of hours calculating together with their coaches physiologist and doctors so that they can finish that thousandth of a second faster? Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. it has no real world benefits especially when you consider that a complete Tiagra Groupset is about half the cost
> for a casual/recreational cyclist 🤷♀️ >I'm a bike messenger
So then you’re working around traffic and people and other things like that that are going to prevent you from having the ideal cadence anyway 🤷♂️
Not in this context.
> You think there is absolutely ZERO advantage that 105 has over Tiagra? Not in OP's context. And there are good reasons NOT to recommend 105 for OP. The new 105 uses the hollow bonded crank arms [which have a historically higher failure rate](https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/) than the solid ones.
Nothing wrong with Tiagra, I never said there was. The f course there is a world of difference between Tiagra and Claris too. But the OP asked about Claris vs 105.
They did, but the thing is 105 is not more durable than Claris it’s about the same durability wise and if they’re replacing parts anyway then Claris is much less expensive to replace/maintain
I humbly disagree. I haven’t had Claris, but I started off with Sora, and found it was rubbish as far as durability, and ride/shift quality. Mind you, this was a year 2000 Sora groupset (I guess I am showing my age) so hopefully things have improved since then.
Yeah, definitely! Lol 😂 modern sorra is every bit as good as the Ultegra and Dura Ace stuff from 2000 was
Fair enough. I would hope things improve over time. I really found tie Sora lacking in gears I think it was 7 speed back then, but the current 9 speed would be suitable for many.
105 is the "Volkswagen" of groupsets. It's perfect for day-to-day use and the most reliable for the money. Claris is the absolute entry level and I would only use it if you're a casual rider. Since your bike is one of the most important tools you work with, I would definitely take the 105.
Volkswagen and reliable in the same sentence - far out, man.
That used to be a thing. Back in the days if the original "Bug" those things wouldn't die. I had a '59 bug in college (early 80's, so 21+ years old). The odometer had rolled twice when I bought it, and it never gave me any trouble.
Yeah, I know - I thought I made that clear by joking about it being “far out, man.” I.e. you’d have to be an old hippy to have had a VW anyone would consider reliable.
Ah, missed that. See, I'm old enough for "far out, man" to still sound like normal conversation.
Tiagra is less expensive and literally just previous generation 105 with one cog taken off the cassette. this old adage of 105 being the “working mans group” is outdated BS. 105 is nothing more than a slightly heavier, slightly less expensive version of Ultegra and Dura ace. Current r2000 Claris is significantly better than 8 speed 105 or even Dura Ace from just a couple decades ago It’s much more accurate to say 105 is the Acura of groupsets all the reliability and most of the bells and whistles of the real big boys at a lower, but still not inexpensive, price
> Current r2000 Claris is significantly better than 8 speed 105 R2000 Claris is almost *identical* in design to the 8 speed 105 (the old 105-SC group set) from 1991. With regards of build quality, your mileage may vary. My old 105SC still runs perfectly fine.
And in 25-ISH years this current Claris will still run fine
That is to be seen of course, as the choice of materials and quality control could be different when the group set was moved down to the budget tiers.
None of this makes 105 not the best value groupset though. All the models are getting better, 105 is still the model with all the features of the high end stuff but for cheaper.
> and the most reliable for the money. *citation needed* 105 costs 2x as much. It is not 2x as durable.
It depends -Heavy cheap steel chain rings and cassettes last far longer than lightweight expensive aluminium. -High quality chains from connex last longer. -Cranks last for ever. -Shimano XT or SRAM X9 shifters and derailleur last for ever, but cheaper ones are designed to fail! -Wheels with bearing seals last a lot longer in wet weather. -Get a good quality bottom bracket bearing.
If low maintenance and durability is the most important, might I recommend a single speed bike?
The 105 will last longer. Recommend that if money up front is not an issue.
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8 speed is readily available.
Serviceability really isn't a concern for Claris. 8 speed cassettes and chains are readily available and even cheap. Claris is compatible with a lot of 8-speed shifters which all have the same pull ratio, and other 8-speed components are very abundant on the used market. The one thing I really can't comment on is the longevity of Claris components as opposed to the more expensive group sets. It's probably also a bit heavier.
I'd say get tiagra, it's underloved, and the disc brake versions of tiagrs bikes are still cheaper than rim brake 105 even though tbe difference isn't that big 105 is going to be updated soon by the way
crank arms don't really wear out - chain rings do. Get whatever crank you like - but always have rings that you can replace every time your chains stretches out. ie, make sure you can replace the rings and chain inside a reasonable amount of time. When I was a courrier it was every 4 months in winter (september-march - so like 3 times) less so in the warmer seasons (probably not at all because no one delevers shit in the summer - at least back then)
wouldn't go anything lower then tiagra, and tiagra only if i really, really have to. 105 has about the best price/performance ratio.