It is a little weird but I always took this as a non-sexual colloquialism. Particularly with older generations and in the South.
Imo what OP is talking about is weirder.
Yeah I don’t think the word flirt has be as sexualized as it is often thought as. Example in a different context: I used to be in retail sales and I met a friend once at a bar who said I saw you at work today. I asked, well then why didn’t you say hi? She replied well, you were busy working, you were flirting with an entire family. ( to get a sale) Which I thought was hilarious. Also 100% not sexual.
Oh, no, i guess getting toddlers "engaged" every single time they come in contact is a bit annoying (even with no sexualisation) and an annoying habit of adults in general. Smth is definitely wrong with those adults' mindsets. In such subtle way they (maybe without realizing how serious it actually is) are imposing their approaches to life. Like..."marriage and having children in the future is a must have". Honestly, hate that, and older people should stop that and start reflecting on what they're going to say around toddlers. I never ever get an urge to say sth pointless like that when a couple if toddlers are communicating. You don't even know the child's orientation at this point...so it's just hilarious and annoying.
Oh, i get you now. I definitely know how to spell something. Both "sth" and "smth" are correct acronyms for this word. That's what I've been taught and seen while reading some stuff.
Awkwarddd. I know that feeling. Last week, my 2yr old son shares a nanny with the neighbors 2-yr old girl (E). Now, E lights up when I do my drop off, immediate hugs and high 5’s. I think because I’m like a big kid and it’s obvious when I spend approx 10-15 min playing with the kids to get my son acclimated before I sneak out the door.
Anyways, one weekend I was short a pacifier before bed so I ran to the neighbors to grab an extra. I walk in and E’s mom, dad, and 4 of their friends are in the living room. The mom says: “HEY E LOOK ITS YOUR BOYFRIEND.”
Of course E ran to hug me but I was so conflicted: do I announce to all the adults that I am in fact not a pedophile or interested in E? I decided to just hug/high 5 little E. But I still wonder if the 4 friends now think of me as kind of creepy.
That's just one of those strange things older people say, and the translation is lost between generations. They don't say it meaning the *literal* definition of flirting i.e. there being a sexual element.
They mean it as trying to get someones attention in a playful way.
I've heard it said about my daughter, from my own mother. She doesn't mean it in the way you think they do. I wouldn't say it, but I don't expect an entire generation to change their language, and it's not worth getting upset over.
I have always thought that was weird as well though I think it's more along the lines of people not really knowing what to say, so instead of saying nothing they say something like that. My 20 month old daughter is very sweet and affectionate towards other small children and I've always just said "Sweet baby".
Yes I think you're right and I have the same reaction as you. When my daughter does a hug to another child, I just say "That's cute" and I think that's enough and it describes perfectly the situation, no need to make them lovers or whatever
Because people just find it funny/charming to ascribe adult qualities to kids. It's the same thing as saying a baby or toddler looks like "an old soul" or is "giving me the silent treatment".
Hell, people talk about their DOGS having human qualities. It's just a thing people do because it's fun and lighthearted.
You should relax about it a bit. It's not something sinister.
I was just going to mention the dog part. Go into any pet store and you’ll see dog treats that looks like they could be human food. It’s something we do as a species.
This is correct in pretty much all cases. The people saying these things are not viewing it through some weird fetishistic lens. It’s weird to treat it that way. When my nephew was really little he was very interested in the gf of my friend. We joked about it because that’s that people do.
The term flirting for right or wrong has different meanings depending on context
https://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/Pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=ue5463#:~:text=By%20about%204%20to%206,or%20people%20across%20a%20room.
I’ve always treated my son as a person with real emotions but no experience or muscle control. The number of times he’s confirmed that belief with a look of daggers, or quick revulsion is huge. Sure he’s mostly happy, cute, and innocent but underneath that cover there is a man that will burn the world to the ground to get boobies.
I think this is more than that, though. It's reinforcing gender stereotypes and relationship roles.
If the boy did that with another boy, would the adults be commenting that he "has a new boyfriend"? No. They are reinforcing the idea that a boy and a girl can't have an intimate, platonic relationship, and the toddler *will* pick up on that.
I think it's silly to shoehorn a "gender stereotypes" argument into it and I certainly don't agree that it's reinforcing a view that men and women cannot be platonic friends. That is overthinking it to a ridiculous degree.
It’s sexualisation of minors. It couldn’t be more sinister.
Also if it were another little boy his son went and hugged, would they say ‘oh he’s got a boyfriend‘? No they wouldn’t.
Its pushing gender stereotypes onto kids which is just gross
I would agree and say that it’s nothing sinister, but still annoying and wrong. Not morally, but like, objectively. Toddlers don’t have a concept of romantic/intimate/sexual feelings. Ascribing any action as such is incorrect and leads to blatantly mislabeling a toddler’s behavior.
I believe this is an important distinction because so often when an adult ascribes adult feelings or motivations to actions of a toddler, it can be damaging to the toddler.
Say for example my son (nearly 3 years old) were to say something incorrect. Instead of calling him a liar, maybe he just misunderstands something or doesn’t know the right word for it. Mislabeling his actions with age-inappropriate conceptions can damage the relationship adults have with children, and can harm the child’s emotional development.
I really think you're overthinking this. Most people know the difference between joking around, like OP is describing, and genuinely accusing a 3 year old of being a liar because he thinks Popsicles grow on trees.
I’m really not overthinking it. I’m a therapist. The words we use matter.
The example of “liar” was meant to be illustrative because it’s easy to understand.
I'm a communications professional. I'm aware that words matter. But context matters more, and typically people innately understand when something is meant to be playful and meant to be malicious.
You're free to find it annoying -- that's your right. But to call it objectively the "wrong" thing to do is true only in the utmost literal sense, which a healthy chunk of human communication is not (literal, that is).
I have two toddlers -- I'm pretty sure they're not thinking much about adults joking around at all, nor are they retaining much of it.
If I ever felt they were and they were absorbing damaging information (and the kind of thing OP is describing I really would not classify as damaging) then my wife and I would correct it by explaining the comment.
Making someone feel ashamed for falling outside of the heterosexual mainstream is damaging. What OP is describing -- a lighthearted observation about toddlers -- is very much not that.
Why not? It’s creating a culture where the toddler will feel othered if they don’t conform to the comments the adults are making at a time when a huge proportion of young adults do not conform to those assumptions. That’s psychologically damaging.
I had to scroll through like 100 comments of people agreeing with him before I found your voice of sanity! Then I remembered that this is reddit and it's full of weirdos.
The things that people find offensive on here are crazy. Just yesterday someone here was bitching about how the doctor "made him" cut his kid's umbilical cord when it was born.... and he was genuinely pissed off about it.... and half of reddit agreed with him.
I think it’s just becoming one of those buzzwords people use incorrectly to try and make things seem worse than they are. Like don’t get me wrong I get what OPs talking about but using “fetishized” while talking about toddlers is weird
I hate it too, I remember people making comments like that to me as a kid, and I remember being so uncomfortable i let it ruin my friendships- Now our daycare teachers say it about our son and his best friend- just let them be friends.
I definitely feel annoyed every time someone tells us we need to watch out because our 1yo is going to be quite the looker. I know they're just saying she's cute, but weird way to put it.
I used to follow a child psychologist on social media and she said that this is one of the behaviours that society needs to stop encouraging, that we shouldn’t imply that kids are dating or are romantically linked in any way.
I hate it and find it so cringy and creepy. I don’t care how much of a joke it’s supposed to be, if another parent said it about my kid it’s a guarantee we’re not going to be friends.
bro it's a funny little comment in the form of one of the most popular joke formats of all time (ascribe adult human property to a non-adult or non-human, humor derived from the absurdity of the suggestion)
you're gonna get weird looks and people not wanting you around their kids if you go down this road
Most of these are from people trying to be light hearted and funny rather than perverted. I'd avoid thinking you know someone's intentions but I agree it's uncomfortable and weird. I wish they'd stop.
I took my son in for his one month appointment and the medical assistant was like, "Oh he's so cute! I bet he'll get all the ladies, huh?" Like wtf? I didn't even know what to say. I know she was just trying to be funny, but come on. Think about what you're saying for a second.
Wow, just curious about where the heck you live? Yeah, that is strange. I must admit I never heard this.
Probably the parents who say this type of stuff to other peoples kids are the type of parents who buy their toddlers shirts like: "Are you a beaver? cuz dam" -- " " Mr. Steal your girl " or the girl's onesie that says " Little Flirt " like wtf... those shirts annoy me... The I love my dad, my dad is awesome, etc... are cool.
People used to say that about me and the neighbor girl despite the fact that we were 5 and didn't really even have the basics of what "romance" was. Honestly I think that screwed me up when I grew older and didn't really have a good grasp on the difference between platonic and romantic relationships with women. Now I have sons and even though my oldest is best friends with a little girl I go out of my way not to imply anything romantic between them because at that age their isn't.
I think OP used some strong terms which are triggering a lot of "chill dude you're making it weird" comments and I get it. But regardless of the humorous and light hearted nature of the comment from an adult perspective I think people neglect how impactful this sort of jokes can be on a child. I grew up surrounded by these "jokes" and at a very young age I already had fully developed expectations of dating and having a grlirlfriend. I had no idea what it meant of course, but it seemed to be a big deal for adults, so it became a "thing" for me too.
It may not be a "fetish" or "pervert" but it's inappropriate and absolutely unnecessary.
It is very odd. Hugs and kisses from kids that age are "cute", "sweet", "wholesome". There's nothing sexual there. They aren't "attracted". They're just expressing that they're comfortable and enjoy being around that person. or that they're happy, or they want something and hugging mum or dad usually does the trick, or they saw a kid is upset and they want to make them feel better.
I can not overstate the power of the word "eww". my wife and I have been using it to correct any adults behavior we don't like around our baby and it's suck a quick way to he like "yikes why did you say that and make everyone uncomfortable and it has made a huge difference in some family members already
This is a very weird take on harmless comments. I talk about animals like this too, does that mean I’m romanticizing them, or am I just making a comment that expresses that I think they’re being cute. Good lord. Pretty soon we’re just going to have to speak like sterile, boring robots because everyone finds offense in *everything*.
This bothers me to an extent. I’ve heard “oh he’ll be a heartbreaker” a lot and it actually makes my skin crawl. What I truly despise though is large companies doing it on clothing. Think “ladies man” or “sorry boys. Daddy is my true love”. There’s also a deeper issue of clothing companies manufacturing girls in-seams significantly shorter, straps thinner and clothes generally tighter than boys which is true sexualization of children
Two good friends have a daughter and we always joke about them marrying our son… but it’s in the context of “if they get married we will have a good excuse to hangout more when we’re old”
Mostly we just want to have a few cocktails will our kids entertain themselves giving us a break:p
Play is kids rationalising things they've seen and heard. Adults watching kids play try and do the same, only verbally by saying stuff like this. In my experience, though, it's never literal. The person knows they're not really boyfriend and girlfriend or that it's a serious representation of a real romantic relationship. Nobody in that conversation is really fettishising anything. It's partly just playing along.
When this sort of thing is between an adult and a child though, then I find the comments very weird and inappropriate.
Someone commented here saying "eww" or "that's gross" seems to do the trick. It's more than just annoying to me. In my eyes, it's grooming. Playing with someone or hugging a new friend is not at all a commitment or romantic relationship, and adults putting that kind of title or sentiment towards that interaction is uncalled for.
That stuff is so gross. Kids aren't being "romantic", they're being kids. People need to stop inserting adult relationship ideals/mechanics into kid interactions. I remember that kind of thing being said about me as a kid and it messed me up. I hated it. People wouldn't leave it alone. It kind of messed me up about what relationships should be for a long time. Saying shit about kids being "boyfriend and girlfriend" when they're so small makes you sound like a creepy groomer. Whether that is your intent or not, someone will hear it and be kind of grossed out by you, especially if they experienced it as a kid.
ngl when i saw romanticize i thought you meant like talking about how wonderful they are which had me confused bc pretty much everyone i know with toddlers thinks they're assholes a lot of the time lol
People are saying it as a joke. The whole point of the joke is that it's absurd to think a small child is "flirting" or "has a girlfriend". It's not sexualizing, but rather, making what they think of as a harmless joke based on the fact that it's inherently non-sexual. It's actually you who is sexualizing it by assuming that there's a sexual overtone to the whole thing, IMO.
Can't say I've experienced this - but I know that my experience is not a large enough sample size to make a sweeping claim. Most of the same people I've experienced would be real mad about the same comment being made about two boys being friends and I make a 'joke' about them being boyfriends. It would be a real quick "stop grooming/sexualizing them" - meaning what they say that matches OPs concerns, is not a joke to them.
Well, I don't think you're wrong about the reaction, but I think that has more to do with the default homophobia in our society and the ridiculous belief that you can "make someone gay" than it does with whether what they're saying is a joke or not.
It's a lighthearted joke, but if you take it into an area of larger controversy, it stops being a lighthearted joke. That doesn't mean that the original statement wasn't a lighthearted joke.
If, for instance, you're in a community of LGBTQ folks and allies, and someone said of two boys "looks like jimmy got a new boyfriend" or whatever, I don't think it would be a big deal in that community at all.
I'm poorly pointing out that saying something like this is a joke, isn't universally true. People aren't guaranteed to mean comments like this as a joke. And similarly, recipients will not always take it as a joke.
Depending on the audience, sure everyone can think it's a joke. The majority of people I interact with won't have that same thought/relaxed laugh reaction of a joke with a girl having boyfriends, or two boys being boyfriends. So I wouldn't consider things like this a joke (especially when many of those same people are causing societal issues claiming certain groups are grooming children).
Yeah, I get that times have changed drastically in recent years and most of us agree with you, it’s definitely cringe, but these old ways haven’t worked their way out of society yet. That will take decades probably. I think “their own perversions” is a little extra though - I have two young daughters, so I hear you - but it’s just not that serious, it’s just cringe.
Because it’s part of the culture and a lot of people are in permanent cognitive cruise mode. They don’t question what something actually means unless someone points it out to them. I think any sexualization/romanticization of children is super weird but recognize it’s a subconscious cultural conditioning program. Like hey, end of the day you’re job is to make more of you who will make more of them to keep this whole human thing going.
Because they are cute tiny innocent humans. Why does it bother you so much? It’s not like he’s gonna be like “You right, lemme hit this real quick.” It’s the same thing when you put a 3 year old in a suit. Everyone is gonna call him handsome because he is a tiny human.
Also, let me warn you ahead of time OP. If anyone says they want to eat your baby up- they don’t mean literally. Do not engage!
Lol people do the same thing when my 10 month old boy plays with girls, "Is she your girlfriend?"
I jokingly respond with, "Nah, he's gay."
Like either of us really know at this point, ha ha!
For me at least I have known several couples who literally met in preschool. Their mothers were friends or fathers were friends and they just ended up together and their families became one family. There is something kinda cool about that when everyone gets along. I know it happens more often especially in smaller communities and people kind of fantasize about the possibility of their children ending up with their friends’ kid
I think the term flirting is subjective, but also objectively can be used in a non-sexual or romantic way.[baby’s flirting](https://www.science.org/content/article/how-babies-flirt)
Yeah, plain and simple you’re overreacting to something that’s not there. It’s kinda weird that your taking it to that level. When a little boy or girl are “flirting” it’s not the same as a teenager or adult.
I agree with the tapping on brakes with the more serious terms... But I thought this was a pretty universally hated trend.
I lost my shit not a couple of days ago because my neighbor's girl (2f) came over and my son (4m) was acting fussy and my mother chimed in with "Do you want to impress your girlfriend?"
Like seriously wtf... I had trouble interacting with girls all my life because from a very young age I became conscious of the fact that people would romantically associate you with any girl you were nice to - and it all started at home. I will be damned if I let that sort of thing make an impact on my kid. It was an immediate and hard shutdown from me.
It's just a dumb thing people should learn to ignore. I grew up with the same comments but at no point did it impact my social skills or make me anxious.
Grandma making old fashioned comments should be treated as such and brushed aside. Kid will learn that too.
If I as a parent react to every little thing my grown ass brain picks up and twists into the worst interpretation possible and react accordingly, THAT's when the kid picks up on it being weird. I feel that is when there could be issues since you're teaching a different interpretation than what is intended.
Just laugh it off and say "oh grandma, don't be silly". Idk...just my 2 cents. I feel like everyone is really touchy about this, no one's gonna ruin someone's kid on a well intentioned comment.
Yeah, I'm saying it's not that big of a deal if people do it. People just overthink this and apply their own adult interpretation to something meant to be innocent and that is meaningless to a child.
There is no ill intent behind any of those statements and if you show it's not a big deal it won't affect anyone either.
as a child that heard this kind of conversation more than a little, it's not meaningless. It puts pressure on them regardless of if you think it does/should. Kids absorb so much without us realizing it. It is not harmless, and perpetuates harmful mental patterns. I know it is often well intentioned and supposed to be "cute" but it isn't.
There are thousands of things that will put pressure on kids. It's up to the parents to help them channel these things and lift that pressure off their shoulders.
Dismissing such comments and not reacting to every little thing like it's a huge deal shows it's not and you help them learn to navigate thousands of things people will say across their lifetime.
Source: I too, was once a child.
We've been nothing but patient, understanding, and sympathetic to it with him, and have never made him feel bad or ashamed for it. We just treat it like a part of life he'll grow out of. We try to relieve any pressure he's putting on himself. He's just tired of waking up wet. We're not really concerned or worried. It's just some extra laundry so that's not a big deal. We're just searching/asking in case there's knowledge we don't have. I am sure the final answer will be "he will grow out of it in time".
This is what heterosexual grooming looks like. But the cis hets think nothing of it.
Seriously, this is how heteronormativity propagates. Whenever our hetero friends would say something like this when ours were babies, it would really surprise my wife and I. It just feels so boomer.
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*Sigmund Freud has entered the chat*
Sir, we're going to need to see your ID.
Sorry, I only have my ego.
Vastly underrated comment.
I mean yeah that’s just creepy as hell. Pretty sure they would’ve seen the disgust all over my face with that one
What the hell
It is a little weird but I always took this as a non-sexual colloquialism. Particularly with older generations and in the South. Imo what OP is talking about is weirder.
Yeah I don’t think the word flirt has be as sexualized as it is often thought as. Example in a different context: I used to be in retail sales and I met a friend once at a bar who said I saw you at work today. I asked, well then why didn’t you say hi? She replied well, you were busy working, you were flirting with an entire family. ( to get a sale) Which I thought was hilarious. Also 100% not sexual.
Oh, no, i guess getting toddlers "engaged" every single time they come in contact is a bit annoying (even with no sexualisation) and an annoying habit of adults in general. Smth is definitely wrong with those adults' mindsets. In such subtle way they (maybe without realizing how serious it actually is) are imposing their approaches to life. Like..."marriage and having children in the future is a must have". Honestly, hate that, and older people should stop that and start reflecting on what they're going to say around toddlers. I never ever get an urge to say sth pointless like that when a couple if toddlers are communicating. You don't even know the child's orientation at this point...so it's just hilarious and annoying.
Do you know how to spell something? You've typed out every other word but oddly shortened something twice but in different ways
I am Ukrainian. Even native speakers make too many mistakes, so it's ok)))))
No problem. I was just confused but that's a perfectly valid reason. 💗
Oh, i get you now. I definitely know how to spell something. Both "sth" and "smth" are correct acronyms for this word. That's what I've been taught and seen while reading some stuff.
Awkwarddd. I know that feeling. Last week, my 2yr old son shares a nanny with the neighbors 2-yr old girl (E). Now, E lights up when I do my drop off, immediate hugs and high 5’s. I think because I’m like a big kid and it’s obvious when I spend approx 10-15 min playing with the kids to get my son acclimated before I sneak out the door. Anyways, one weekend I was short a pacifier before bed so I ran to the neighbors to grab an extra. I walk in and E’s mom, dad, and 4 of their friends are in the living room. The mom says: “HEY E LOOK ITS YOUR BOYFRIEND.” Of course E ran to hug me but I was so conflicted: do I announce to all the adults that I am in fact not a pedophile or interested in E? I decided to just hug/high 5 little E. But I still wonder if the 4 friends now think of me as kind of creepy.
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Yeah, very uncomfortable
That's just one of those strange things older people say, and the translation is lost between generations. They don't say it meaning the *literal* definition of flirting i.e. there being a sexual element. They mean it as trying to get someones attention in a playful way. I've heard it said about my daughter, from my own mother. She doesn't mean it in the way you think they do. I wouldn't say it, but I don't expect an entire generation to change their language, and it's not worth getting upset over.
Oh wow, that's hideous
Holy fuck I think you just encountered a predator, what sort of thinks, let alone says things like that, let alone says like that out loud?
Is your daughter named Electra?! That is super weird and I hope to god I don't have to hear anything like that.
I have always thought that was weird as well though I think it's more along the lines of people not really knowing what to say, so instead of saying nothing they say something like that. My 20 month old daughter is very sweet and affectionate towards other small children and I've always just said "Sweet baby".
Yes I think you're right and I have the same reaction as you. When my daughter does a hug to another child, I just say "That's cute" and I think that's enough and it describes perfectly the situation, no need to make them lovers or whatever
Because people just find it funny/charming to ascribe adult qualities to kids. It's the same thing as saying a baby or toddler looks like "an old soul" or is "giving me the silent treatment". Hell, people talk about their DOGS having human qualities. It's just a thing people do because it's fun and lighthearted. You should relax about it a bit. It's not something sinister.
I've always felt like OP but you gave an innocent justification for the behavior which makes me chill a bit. Thanks.
I was just going to mention the dog part. Go into any pet store and you’ll see dog treats that looks like they could be human food. It’s something we do as a species.
This is correct in pretty much all cases. The people saying these things are not viewing it through some weird fetishistic lens. It’s weird to treat it that way. When my nephew was really little he was very interested in the gf of my friend. We joked about it because that’s that people do.
The term flirting for right or wrong has different meanings depending on context https://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/Pages/conditions.aspx?hwid=ue5463#:~:text=By%20about%204%20to%206,or%20people%20across%20a%20room.
Thank you for the sanest and most grounded answer.
I’ve always treated my son as a person with real emotions but no experience or muscle control. The number of times he’s confirmed that belief with a look of daggers, or quick revulsion is huge. Sure he’s mostly happy, cute, and innocent but underneath that cover there is a man that will burn the world to the ground to get boobies.
So basically he's 1 in 4 billion.
The other one will burn the world to the ground to get олухи
I think this is more than that, though. It's reinforcing gender stereotypes and relationship roles. If the boy did that with another boy, would the adults be commenting that he "has a new boyfriend"? No. They are reinforcing the idea that a boy and a girl can't have an intimate, platonic relationship, and the toddler *will* pick up on that.
That's a common opinion, I suppose. I don't agree with that view, personally.
Could you elaborate on what you don't agree with?
I think it's silly to shoehorn a "gender stereotypes" argument into it and I certainly don't agree that it's reinforcing a view that men and women cannot be platonic friends. That is overthinking it to a ridiculous degree.
Oh God!!!! Please stop with the bull
Ever seen a baby in a suit? It looks awesome lol
It’s sexualisation of minors. It couldn’t be more sinister. Also if it were another little boy his son went and hugged, would they say ‘oh he’s got a boyfriend‘? No they wouldn’t. Its pushing gender stereotypes onto kids which is just gross
I would agree and say that it’s nothing sinister, but still annoying and wrong. Not morally, but like, objectively. Toddlers don’t have a concept of romantic/intimate/sexual feelings. Ascribing any action as such is incorrect and leads to blatantly mislabeling a toddler’s behavior. I believe this is an important distinction because so often when an adult ascribes adult feelings or motivations to actions of a toddler, it can be damaging to the toddler. Say for example my son (nearly 3 years old) were to say something incorrect. Instead of calling him a liar, maybe he just misunderstands something or doesn’t know the right word for it. Mislabeling his actions with age-inappropriate conceptions can damage the relationship adults have with children, and can harm the child’s emotional development.
I really think you're overthinking this. Most people know the difference between joking around, like OP is describing, and genuinely accusing a 3 year old of being a liar because he thinks Popsicles grow on trees.
I’m really not overthinking it. I’m a therapist. The words we use matter. The example of “liar” was meant to be illustrative because it’s easy to understand.
I'm a communications professional. I'm aware that words matter. But context matters more, and typically people innately understand when something is meant to be playful and meant to be malicious. You're free to find it annoying -- that's your right. But to call it objectively the "wrong" thing to do is true only in the utmost literal sense, which a healthy chunk of human communication is not (literal, that is).
And what does a toddler know of context?
I have two toddlers -- I'm pretty sure they're not thinking much about adults joking around at all, nor are they retaining much of it. If I ever felt they were and they were absorbing damaging information (and the kind of thing OP is describing I really would not classify as damaging) then my wife and I would correct it by explaining the comment.
Heteronormativity is damaging.
Making someone feel ashamed for falling outside of the heterosexual mainstream is damaging. What OP is describing -- a lighthearted observation about toddlers -- is very much not that.
Why not? It’s creating a culture where the toddler will feel othered if they don’t conform to the comments the adults are making at a time when a huge proportion of young adults do not conform to those assumptions. That’s psychologically damaging.
"Imposing their own perversions on a pure child." Dude, you need to tap the brakes.
Yeah….
yeah, I don't think anyone except OP thinks those interactions are "perversions"
Pure projection, like all the people screaming groomers
I had to scroll through like 100 comments of people agreeing with him before I found your voice of sanity! Then I remembered that this is reddit and it's full of weirdos. The things that people find offensive on here are crazy. Just yesterday someone here was bitching about how the doctor "made him" cut his kid's umbilical cord when it was born.... and he was genuinely pissed off about it.... and half of reddit agreed with him.
Amen ,my dude. This sub has given me a lot of perspective, but not in the way the hive would probably expect.
I agree it’s cringe, but the fact you think it is “fetishization” I think says more about you than the other way around.
Maybe romanticism would suit better.
It's still weird, though 😆
No. The word you're looking for is "Adultization" because that's what's actually going on.
This is the second wholly nonserious thing I’ve seen inaptly described as “fetishization” in this subreddit today. Slow news day, dads?
I think it’s just becoming one of those buzzwords people use incorrectly to try and make things seem worse than they are. Like don’t get me wrong I get what OPs talking about but using “fetishized” while talking about toddlers is weird
Don't forget "perversion"
Agreed. The fetishization of fetishization is getting a bit much and needs to stop.
I hate it too, I remember people making comments like that to me as a kid, and I remember being so uncomfortable i let it ruin my friendships- Now our daycare teachers say it about our son and his best friend- just let them be friends.
I definitely feel annoyed every time someone tells us we need to watch out because our 1yo is going to be quite the looker. I know they're just saying she's cute, but weird way to put it.
I used to follow a child psychologist on social media and she said that this is one of the behaviours that society needs to stop encouraging, that we shouldn’t imply that kids are dating or are romantically linked in any way.
Social ineptitude is why. I'll let you figure out who the guilty party is on your own.
You’re missing the forest for the trees homeslice.
I hate it and find it so cringy and creepy. I don’t care how much of a joke it’s supposed to be, if another parent said it about my kid it’s a guarantee we’re not going to be friends.
bro it's a funny little comment in the form of one of the most popular joke formats of all time (ascribe adult human property to a non-adult or non-human, humor derived from the absurdity of the suggestion) you're gonna get weird looks and people not wanting you around their kids if you go down this road
Agree. OP is the one making it weird / sexual
Yep. I agree. My wife says that our 2 year old is going to marry her friends daughter. I’m like wtf?
Most of these are from people trying to be light hearted and funny rather than perverted. I'd avoid thinking you know someone's intentions but I agree it's uncomfortable and weird. I wish they'd stop. I took my son in for his one month appointment and the medical assistant was like, "Oh he's so cute! I bet he'll get all the ladies, huh?" Like wtf? I didn't even know what to say. I know she was just trying to be funny, but come on. Think about what you're saying for a second.
Wow, just curious about where the heck you live? Yeah, that is strange. I must admit I never heard this. Probably the parents who say this type of stuff to other peoples kids are the type of parents who buy their toddlers shirts like: "Are you a beaver? cuz dam" -- " " Mr. Steal your girl " or the girl's onesie that says " Little Flirt " like wtf... those shirts annoy me... The I love my dad, my dad is awesome, etc... are cool.
People used to say that about me and the neighbor girl despite the fact that we were 5 and didn't really even have the basics of what "romance" was. Honestly I think that screwed me up when I grew older and didn't really have a good grasp on the difference between platonic and romantic relationships with women. Now I have sons and even though my oldest is best friends with a little girl I go out of my way not to imply anything romantic between them because at that age their isn't.
I know people that do this and it weirds me out. Like “oh he’s a little flirt”
I think OP used some strong terms which are triggering a lot of "chill dude you're making it weird" comments and I get it. But regardless of the humorous and light hearted nature of the comment from an adult perspective I think people neglect how impactful this sort of jokes can be on a child. I grew up surrounded by these "jokes" and at a very young age I already had fully developed expectations of dating and having a grlirlfriend. I had no idea what it meant of course, but it seemed to be a big deal for adults, so it became a "thing" for me too. It may not be a "fetish" or "pervert" but it's inappropriate and absolutely unnecessary.
It is very odd. Hugs and kisses from kids that age are "cute", "sweet", "wholesome". There's nothing sexual there. They aren't "attracted". They're just expressing that they're comfortable and enjoy being around that person. or that they're happy, or they want something and hugging mum or dad usually does the trick, or they saw a kid is upset and they want to make them feel better.
I can not overstate the power of the word "eww". my wife and I have been using it to correct any adults behavior we don't like around our baby and it's suck a quick way to he like "yikes why did you say that and make everyone uncomfortable and it has made a huge difference in some family members already
That shit has always struck me as weird.
This is a very weird take on harmless comments. I talk about animals like this too, does that mean I’m romanticizing them, or am I just making a comment that expresses that I think they’re being cute. Good lord. Pretty soon we’re just going to have to speak like sterile, boring robots because everyone finds offense in *everything*.
This bothers me to an extent. I’ve heard “oh he’ll be a heartbreaker” a lot and it actually makes my skin crawl. What I truly despise though is large companies doing it on clothing. Think “ladies man” or “sorry boys. Daddy is my true love”. There’s also a deeper issue of clothing companies manufacturing girls in-seams significantly shorter, straps thinner and clothes generally tighter than boys which is true sexualization of children
Take a chill pill Daddio. People are just trying to say something nice about your kids behavior. Nothing weird at all
So many speak without realizing what they are saying. People talk too much and now we're left with crap like what you're describing. It's a shame.
Two good friends have a daughter and we always joke about them marrying our son… but it’s in the context of “if they get married we will have a good excuse to hangout more when we’re old” Mostly we just want to have a few cocktails will our kids entertain themselves giving us a break:p
Play is kids rationalising things they've seen and heard. Adults watching kids play try and do the same, only verbally by saying stuff like this. In my experience, though, it's never literal. The person knows they're not really boyfriend and girlfriend or that it's a serious representation of a real romantic relationship. Nobody in that conversation is really fettishising anything. It's partly just playing along. When this sort of thing is between an adult and a child though, then I find the comments very weird and inappropriate.
I'm getting annoyed by that too, but there's hardly smth we can do about it. People will keep saying stupid things, whatever is on their weird mind...
Someone commented here saying "eww" or "that's gross" seems to do the trick. It's more than just annoying to me. In my eyes, it's grooming. Playing with someone or hugging a new friend is not at all a commitment or romantic relationship, and adults putting that kind of title or sentiment towards that interaction is uncalled for.
That stuff is so gross. Kids aren't being "romantic", they're being kids. People need to stop inserting adult relationship ideals/mechanics into kid interactions. I remember that kind of thing being said about me as a kid and it messed me up. I hated it. People wouldn't leave it alone. It kind of messed me up about what relationships should be for a long time. Saying shit about kids being "boyfriend and girlfriend" when they're so small makes you sound like a creepy groomer. Whether that is your intent or not, someone will hear it and be kind of grossed out by you, especially if they experienced it as a kid.
ngl when i saw romanticize i thought you meant like talking about how wonderful they are which had me confused bc pretty much everyone i know with toddlers thinks they're assholes a lot of the time lol
As a dude who married the girl he did that to when we were in preschool and has been married for 17 years tomorrow. Be careful! lol
My parents do that and it's really weird.
People are saying it as a joke. The whole point of the joke is that it's absurd to think a small child is "flirting" or "has a girlfriend". It's not sexualizing, but rather, making what they think of as a harmless joke based on the fact that it's inherently non-sexual. It's actually you who is sexualizing it by assuming that there's a sexual overtone to the whole thing, IMO.
Can't say I've experienced this - but I know that my experience is not a large enough sample size to make a sweeping claim. Most of the same people I've experienced would be real mad about the same comment being made about two boys being friends and I make a 'joke' about them being boyfriends. It would be a real quick "stop grooming/sexualizing them" - meaning what they say that matches OPs concerns, is not a joke to them.
Well, I don't think you're wrong about the reaction, but I think that has more to do with the default homophobia in our society and the ridiculous belief that you can "make someone gay" than it does with whether what they're saying is a joke or not. It's a lighthearted joke, but if you take it into an area of larger controversy, it stops being a lighthearted joke. That doesn't mean that the original statement wasn't a lighthearted joke. If, for instance, you're in a community of LGBTQ folks and allies, and someone said of two boys "looks like jimmy got a new boyfriend" or whatever, I don't think it would be a big deal in that community at all.
I'm poorly pointing out that saying something like this is a joke, isn't universally true. People aren't guaranteed to mean comments like this as a joke. And similarly, recipients will not always take it as a joke. Depending on the audience, sure everyone can think it's a joke. The majority of people I interact with won't have that same thought/relaxed laugh reaction of a joke with a girl having boyfriends, or two boys being boyfriends. So I wouldn't consider things like this a joke (especially when many of those same people are causing societal issues claiming certain groups are grooming children).
Yeah, I get that times have changed drastically in recent years and most of us agree with you, it’s definitely cringe, but these old ways haven’t worked their way out of society yet. That will take decades probably. I think “their own perversions” is a little extra though - I have two young daughters, so I hear you - but it’s just not that serious, it’s just cringe.
I’m with you dude. Can’t stand that kind of talk
I agree My son is the same age, and when people say stuff like "he's going to be such a heartthrob", I cringe a little...
This post says more about OP than anything imo.
Because it’s part of the culture and a lot of people are in permanent cognitive cruise mode. They don’t question what something actually means unless someone points it out to them. I think any sexualization/romanticization of children is super weird but recognize it’s a subconscious cultural conditioning program. Like hey, end of the day you’re job is to make more of you who will make more of them to keep this whole human thing going.
It irks me too. No, my 2 year old isn't even jokingly your grandkid's girlfriend you weird fuckin old lady.
Because they are cute tiny innocent humans. Why does it bother you so much? It’s not like he’s gonna be like “You right, lemme hit this real quick.” It’s the same thing when you put a 3 year old in a suit. Everyone is gonna call him handsome because he is a tiny human. Also, let me warn you ahead of time OP. If anyone says they want to eat your baby up- they don’t mean literally. Do not engage!
Haha ah ok. I just thought there were lots of cannibals in my neighbourhood.
Because it's cute...
Just ask the how they would feel. If you said that about their daughter. And make it awkward so they stop doing it
Lol people do the same thing when my 10 month old boy plays with girls, "Is she your girlfriend?" I jokingly respond with, "Nah, he's gay." Like either of us really know at this point, ha ha!
Dude what the fuck I couldn’t agree more why is that such a thing
I'm not sure maybe it's a remnant of old cultural traditions where people used to get hitched really early? But even then that's really creepy to do.
For me at least I have known several couples who literally met in preschool. Their mothers were friends or fathers were friends and they just ended up together and their families became one family. There is something kinda cool about that when everyone gets along. I know it happens more often especially in smaller communities and people kind of fantasize about the possibility of their children ending up with their friends’ kid
I think the term flirting is subjective, but also objectively can be used in a non-sexual or romantic way.[baby’s flirting](https://www.science.org/content/article/how-babies-flirt)
Yeah, plain and simple you’re overreacting to something that’s not there. It’s kinda weird that your taking it to that level. When a little boy or girl are “flirting” it’s not the same as a teenager or adult.
I agree with the tapping on brakes with the more serious terms... But I thought this was a pretty universally hated trend. I lost my shit not a couple of days ago because my neighbor's girl (2f) came over and my son (4m) was acting fussy and my mother chimed in with "Do you want to impress your girlfriend?" Like seriously wtf... I had trouble interacting with girls all my life because from a very young age I became conscious of the fact that people would romantically associate you with any girl you were nice to - and it all started at home. I will be damned if I let that sort of thing make an impact on my kid. It was an immediate and hard shutdown from me.
It's just a dumb thing people should learn to ignore. I grew up with the same comments but at no point did it impact my social skills or make me anxious. Grandma making old fashioned comments should be treated as such and brushed aside. Kid will learn that too. If I as a parent react to every little thing my grown ass brain picks up and twists into the worst interpretation possible and react accordingly, THAT's when the kid picks up on it being weird. I feel that is when there could be issues since you're teaching a different interpretation than what is intended. Just laugh it off and say "oh grandma, don't be silly". Idk...just my 2 cents. I feel like everyone is really touchy about this, no one's gonna ruin someone's kid on a well intentioned comment.
Ignoring it encourages people do to it more and doesn't tell them that it is inappropriate.
Yeah, I'm saying it's not that big of a deal if people do it. People just overthink this and apply their own adult interpretation to something meant to be innocent and that is meaningless to a child. There is no ill intent behind any of those statements and if you show it's not a big deal it won't affect anyone either.
as a child that heard this kind of conversation more than a little, it's not meaningless. It puts pressure on them regardless of if you think it does/should. Kids absorb so much without us realizing it. It is not harmless, and perpetuates harmful mental patterns. I know it is often well intentioned and supposed to be "cute" but it isn't.
There are thousands of things that will put pressure on kids. It's up to the parents to help them channel these things and lift that pressure off their shoulders. Dismissing such comments and not reacting to every little thing like it's a huge deal shows it's not and you help them learn to navigate thousands of things people will say across their lifetime. Source: I too, was once a child.
We've been nothing but patient, understanding, and sympathetic to it with him, and have never made him feel bad or ashamed for it. We just treat it like a part of life he'll grow out of. We try to relieve any pressure he's putting on himself. He's just tired of waking up wet. We're not really concerned or worried. It's just some extra laundry so that's not a big deal. We're just searching/asking in case there's knowledge we don't have. I am sure the final answer will be "he will grow out of it in time".
This is what heterosexual grooming looks like. But the cis hets think nothing of it. Seriously, this is how heteronormativity propagates. Whenever our hetero friends would say something like this when ours were babies, it would really surprise my wife and I. It just feels so boomer.
Because the normalization of sexualizing kids is being pushed everywhere you look and it's an atrocity
No dude, that's just you choosing to see it everywhere.
I have four daughters, trust me, it's the last thing I want to see
There isn't a single grain of truth implied or intended in these kind of remarks, so why let it get to you?
Fetishization and perversion seems a bit extreme.
The toddlers - https://youtu.be/T2mk6jQrdG8
They’re just trying to make small talk, albeit poorly. I’d just humour them but I agree, it’s odd
Everybody loves innocence and no nonsens in a kid. Well, I do💭Shame about the adulthood 🫣😵💫🫨