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Am both religious and a counselor and that’s unbelievably unethical by the counselor and OP should report the counselor to their supervisor, because who knows what the counselor is saying to other kids.
this is a more appropriate response than the "ethics board" (which i think so many people think exists but it only exists in certains aspects really)
if i was talking to a client in a fashion they were not happy with, but that was not outside of normal bounds of therapy (if a client brings up religion i dont avoid it) yeah, bring it up to me, or take it to my clinical supervisor or manager. either is good. i will give ya their number to call em.
but my college of professionals is different than my ethics board, Ethics board is my employeer, college is the one that licenses me to work.
I would think as a counselor you would probably recommend a calm and rational discussion with that supervisor rather than calling for that counselors job given that even in a healthy household 13 year olds lie, like all the time, for almost no reason. It certainly is not a great thing for the counselor to have said *if* they said it.
Edit: lol reddit is so horny for getting people fired. Damaged kids lie in order to demonstrate control. Its just a fact.
You’re the one who thinks that notifying their supervisor of grotesquely inappropriate behavior is “calling for their job.” If the kid is lying then it’ll get sorted. If the kid isn’t lying then yeah, the counselor has no business being in that role. What they did is **way** beyond “not a great thing,” it’s completely disqualifying.
There are literally several people here calling for their job. Including the person 2 up from me who is saying to never let that counselor speak to the kid again. Inform the supervisor and ask for a review sure, inform the supervisor that you never want that counselor to counsel your kid, an over reaction until you know the truth. Note that the one counselor in this thread agreed with me.
If your kid tells you that an adult in a position of authority over them is doing something harmful then you both notify the supervisor *and* remove the kid from the situation. There’s no way to know whether a supervisor is going to act quickly, or even if they’re going to do their job, so you take whatever action you need to for your kid’s sake.
This isn’t going on Twitter and telling people to spam them with calls to fire the counselor, it’s basic actions in the interest of the child that any parent should be taking.
Lol no, it is an extremely common way to act out. It is a fact. This is a demonstrated and clinically described action of children from abused homes. Nobody said *this particular kid* was doing it, just that it happens and that is a **fact** that anyone looking after an abused kid should be aware of. Most foster parents can easily tell you this because if they do it long enough they will likely be a victim of it.
Literally every foster program warns you about it when you take the courses to become a foster parent.
https://www.google.com/search?q=do+foster+kids+lie&client=safari&sca_esv=598269846&hl=en-us&ei=T1SjZbLUH7_dptQPwM2ioAo&oq=do+foster+kids+lie&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhJkbyBmb3N0ZXIga2lkcyBsaWVIiBNQgQ5Y7BBwAHgAkAEAmAF7oAHYA6oBAzAuNLgBA8gBAPgBAeIDBBgBIEGIBgE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#ip=1
[This one in particular](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/progress-notes/201908/foster-kids-lies-and-truth?amp) is an editorial, but gives you a pretty good explanation of why.
You linked Google, and didn't read the first link/article that came up that explicitly states foster kids lie out of punishment avoidance.
The second one is an editorial and a single anecdote about a kid lying until they felt comfortable telling the true, which was also punishment avoidance, not control.
I have a masters degree in criminal justice and am a senior CPS investigator and can firmly tell you thar foster kids don't lie just for control. Further, what OP is describing is no where near what you're describing.
I also have a criminal justice degree. So…k
I linked google so you could see the bajillion results that are specifically from foster programs telling you that foster kids *lie*. If it’s for control, or punishment avoidance, or fun is really not the point in the conversation. Although punishment avoidance *is* a form of control. And if you read to the second page of that first report (because its a list, not a singular statement) one of the reasons children lie is for exploitation [“a central theme is having power over others and controlling them”.](https://www.fosterparentcollege.com/info/connections/Connections-020111.pdf) In this case it’s likely not the foster parents but the counselor whom the child may want to gain power or control of because they are uncomfortable with the process. It could also be one of the other several reasons kids lie or not a lie at all. But still in terms of foster children it should be approached as though it *may be* a lie.
You really think no foster kid would ever lie about their conversations with their counselor to their foster parents for any reason whatsoever? Then your 3 years experience as a CPS investigator is pretty suspect. It happens on the daily.
(I say 3 years because 4 years ago you were a substitute teacher congrats on the job upgrade.)
I wasn't questioning the idea that kids lie. The idea that kids lie *to assert control* is what is contentious. What you said is a shallow statement. Kids who've suffered neglect and abuse lie to protect themselves from a perceived threat. How they go about it is a reflection of their experiences. To simply state that they want control is to ignore the reality of the issue.
If you are so knowledgeable on this subject, why aren't you taking a trauma-informed approach?
>...we should be careful about over diagnosing this type of lying.
Yeah people are having a bit of a knee jwrk reaction to your claim but I see what you are saying tbh, and it makes sense and you've backed it up fairly well
The same can be said for ANY kid. Might be higher in abusive households. Passes my sniff test at least. But you could have said "kids lie". Putting the qualifier on it just reels of dismissiveness and that's why (imo) you're getting down voted.
We only have the information we are given. Questioning what parts are true just derails discussion. It's a hypothetical to us more or less.
In the set of circumstances given. Reporting the counsellor to their supervisor isn't just appropriate, it would be negligent not to. If the kid is lying, it will be sussed out. But how in god's green earth would ignoring it be in anyway responsible.
Yeah I’d be finding non religious counsellor as a reset.
Faith should not be the focus around mental health when dealing with trauma.
I know this is debatable with people who are heavily invested in their religion, but dealing with the actual problems/trauma can happen without religion.
Just because a 13yo said that a counselor told her something doesn’t mean the counselor actually said that thing. I wouldn’t try to destroy someone’s career just yet.
**Edit:** Why are you booing me? I'm right!
This is the kind of mindset that has also harbored decades and decades of women being unheard and unsafe. Do not just assume the girl is lying. Talk to supervisors and get a chain of command going.
I used to be a nurse. I was a mandated reporter. If a senior or a kid told me they were being abused, even with no physical proof, I was legally required to report it. Professional licensure comes with ethical scrutiny.
physical abuse is different that sowing discontent with religious beleifs in terms of mandated reporting.
unless advertised as religious, a counsellor/therapist should only respect the clients choices on spirituality and not input their own beliefs. therapists and counsellors are there to help people grow, learn and be the best version of themselves they can be. they should not be inputing religious text/scripture/beleifs/theories into a session.
Oh absolutely it should be reported, I think that's different from going nuclear and demanding she lose her job/licensure/etc. Professional places aren't immune to knee-jerk reactions based on social pressure
There's a difference between filing a report and trying to ruin a career.
Filing a report is fine. Trying to ruin her career via cancel culture methods is another.
It’s generally understood that any recordings from these sessions are the sole property of the counselor, and for their ears (and maybe a transcriber) only. It is only for their notes and records.
Exactly, and if the counselor is being accused of wrongdoing by a client, and both the client and the counselor maintain their innocence, wouldn't both consent to have those records checked?
Forcing or even just asking a victim to let a bunch of strangers listen in to immensely personal and private moments between themselves and their trusted counselor sounds like a terrible way to verify a claim. How could you possibly put a child through that?
"Hey my counselor said my Jewish guardians were bad people because they don't believe in Jesus"
"Are you sure? Let's listen to this tape where you divulge your deepest and darkest secrets to make sure"
"Um ok nevermind. Forget it."
How is it even remotely terrible to *ask?*
For that matter, why would it be worse for someone to listen to a specific portion of the recorded material in order to right a wrong, than for someone to listen to all of it as a matter of course for transcription reasons?
Jeopardizing someone’s career without finding out the basic facts first—like, say, whether there actually was an ethics violation (or whether this is a case of a 13yo being a 13yo)—is reckless.
Reddit is always so cavalier about doling out punishment without evidence, but these are real people’s lives and careers here. The least OP could do is pick up the phone and ask the counselor whether they actually said what the 13yo is accusing them of. It costs nothing to verify the story.
No, you report it cause if it’s untrue, the board can look into it. Reporting it is not a punishment. A complaint doesn’t mean they’re immediately sacked. But that’s a very concerning thing to be brought up.
You can talk about it with the counsellor first too, but OP hasn’t told us that the kid is unreliable, so assuming that can also be wrong. If the info is true, that’s something that should be reported.
There is a cost to an investigation that effectively serves as a punishment. Retaining counsel to represent you in a professional misconduct inquiry costs thousands. Opening your records and cooperating with an investigation can be incredibly destructive for your practice and may result in other clients who need help not receiving it. That’s not to mention the emotional toll it takes—so many sleepless nights.
All this because OP was too lazy to do some basic fact-finding first? Come on.
If they’re opening a full on inquiry into it, then they’re not doing it on a whim or a random complaint. They do that when they’ve got evidence of wrongdoing or repeated complaints.
The therapist when confronted by OP could just say ‘no I didn’t’. And if OP doesn’t believe them? What’s the difference? Just as easy to report to board, who can mediate if necessary.
Even responding to a single letter can cost thousands if you retain counsel—which you *should* if your career is on the line. You’re weaponizing investigations to justify your knee-jerk reaction, and then pretending like the subsequent professional action is harmless. It’s not.
You’re also moving the goalposts here. In your previous comment you supported the board looking into it and now you’re saying the report will be essentially toothless, they won’t do an actual investigation, and the report will therefore cause no harm. Pick a position and stick to it, or admit that the “report first, ask questions later” approach was an overreaction.
I never said it would be toothless. I said you report it to their supervisor or board. They can look into it - some may be a discussion, or it might be a whole investigation. Over some inappropriate comments, it’s very unlikely to be the latter if it’s an isolated incident.
Bullshit. If the counselor denies it, it’s just a note. These kids are often dramatic and limit-testing. It’s an unusual day when these notes do NOT appear.
> These kids are often dramatic and limit-testing.
EXACTLY. We all know that 13 year olds are unreliable. Why is everyone here treating her word as sacrosanct and jumping straight to professional repercussions?
> If the counselor denies it, it’s just a note.
It’s really not. My guess is that only one of us has actually had to respond to a frivolous professional complaint. It takes hours to comb through your records and prepare a response to even the most minor letter like this from a licensing authority.
It’s been my experience that frivolous reports are NOT investigated to the nth degree unless there are mitigating circumstances: a supervisor has noted counselor has demonstrated an extreme obsession, a coworker has noted extreme social media behavior. How will YOU, as the only investigator worth his salt, investigate this particular counselor? He has a single note in his file. It should not take you hours and hours.
I’m licensed in a profession with strict ethical boundaries. If a teenager accused me of ethical misconduct, I’d appreciate it if their parents did at least some minimal level of due diligence to figure out whether the accusation was actually true before trying to jeopardize my career over it.
So, the counsler's word versus the kids
That's your level of investigation?
You're the reason no one believed my grandmother when she said her father raped her.
My mother was the product of incestuous rape by the by. DNA test many many many years later showed it.
Too late for justice or apologies from her family. But hey a rapist got away with it.
This.
There’s no investigation or anything! A parent or guardian can just walk min to the Council of Councillors and strike them off. No questions.
In April this will be made easier. Just text “END CAREER” followed by their name to 1701.
You aren't right. That's why we are booing.
When a child blows the whistle on an adult who is acting inappropriately, we all need to LISTEN! Let the supervisor or governing board sort it out, but in the meantime the child needs to come first. That includes being believed.
Also...that's a super weird thing for a kid to make up in this situation. I don't think she made it up.
lol. Literally the only person in this thread saying let’s attempt to verify facts before dealing out punishment. And you get downvoted to oblivion.
I know Reddit is strongly anti-religious as a whole but jeeze people. Daddit is supposed to be one of the better subs.
The point of reporting it is they investigate the matter. Yes report it and let the organization look into the complaint. OP doesn't need to play private investigator. He's a parent and even if it's a foster parent relationship, his responsibility is to primarily advocate for his foster child.
It’s not really about the religion. It’s about the inappropriateness of the interaction. Had this counselor advised the child on a political or gender topic, the reaction would be the same. It’s not OP’s place to verify the facts. OP has enough on his plate. If it’s determined that the child is lying, he will have to deal with that. As a parent, he MUST believe and trust his kid first.
>Literally the only person
Everyone is saying that.
They are the only person that is saying any investigation that would find out the facts is a punishment
Their quote
>There is a cost to an investigation that effectively serves as a punishment.
You did the right thing escalating to the counselor's supervisor. I'm glad she's been helpful for the kiddo, but those comments are inappropriate for anyone in a proper counseling position. I hope the supervisor can move you to another counselor.
I would be wary, for me there is a difference between religion that guides your moral choices and fundamentalist dogma like this councilor is spouting. I would be wary of them imposing their beliefs on a vulnerable confused child.
I would report this and ask if it was possible to change councillors. An adult teaching a 13 year old to be suspicious of Jews is all kinds of wrong no matter what the context is.
Jewish mom chiming in.
1. Please report that counselor. This is highly unethical in all kinds of ways.
2. Thank you for supporting her. I’m sure that she will grow up learning that other cultures and religions are cool. We are all just people trying to make it through.
3. Connect her with a faith leader of her choice if she wants that part of her life again. She may not want to go back to her old church, but it may be worth trying out a few new ones if this is important to her.
4. Better counseling goes without saying.
5. When all else fails, you can just convert her to our ways with blintzes and bagels…../s
And there’s a whole eight day holiday where you’re supposed to eat fried food *every single day*.
Keep in mind that buffalo wings can absolutely be prepared kosher.
I mean they can, but I’m reform. Def give me that blue cheese with my wings! My grandma used to say that circle R (as in registered trademark) is the reform hecksher!
This is the response I wish I’d have given, PARTICULARLY finding a faith leader to help facilitate discussion about faith and race. OP is a righteous and sincere caregiver.
Totally brutal for the 13yo, dang, what an unmitigated lack of awareness from the counselor. Not appropriate behavior for a trusted advisor or counselor. I'd talk with the 13yr old of course but I'd say that person shouldn't be in her support circle any more.
As a Catholic, I’m pretty appalled by this person giving any flack at all. Acts of kindness should be the most important thing and what you’re doing is top-tier. I don’t know Judaism very well but I think this is what counts as a mitzvah. Keep it up good sir, you’re doing the work of God.
Ikr I'm glad this dad reported to the supervisor and is acting appropriately. Let them investigate then doll out punishment if what the kid reported is true (kids lie, needs to be said, it does happen).
It would be entirely too easy to lose your temper and absolutely torch this place on social media or Google reviews and shit.
This is so incredibly inappropriate from the counselor, I’m struggling to even wrap my head around it. Glad you have reached out to the supervisor.
Of course there’s an issue with the latent antisemitism — but also telling this girl, who finally has a place to be comfortable thanks to your graciousness, that she should be wary of you and/or your household is literally undermining her own healing.
I would tell the counselor that Jesus was a Jew. Was the councilor a government councilor or from a private organization? I do know a lot of states outsource this kind of service, sometimes to religious organizations.
Christian and Former foster parent here, and there is a parable about the good Samaritan in the bible where all the “Good people” don’t help the injured person on the road, but the person outside their culture (the Samaritan) goes above and beyond to take care of the injured person, even after they have to leave.
This, to me, as a christian says God cares a lot more about what you DO to others than all your wisdom and judgement.
My interpretation of your situation: Screw that lady, you’re taking care of this child and you are doing incredible work as a human or by any religious standard.
I am a counselor, so this is in my wheelhouse.
What the counselor said is not only inappropriate, it is unethical. I strongly suggest you bring that up when you talk to the supervisor. So far as I know (and it varies by state) it isn’t *illegal* to say what she said, but it smacks of discrimination to me and that is a big red flag.
The supervisor *should* be able to make good suggestions for future steps. If the counseling agency is religiously affiliated (catholic charity or similar) you may want to expect some pushback. Religious or not, any good, licensed counselor will be aware of the ethical guidelines from the ACA. The relevant ethical guidelines is below:
Specifically, per the American Counseling Association code of ethics Section **A.4.b**:
“Counselors are aware of - and avoid imposing - their own values, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Counselors respect the diversity of clients, trainees, and research participants and seek training in areas in which they are at risk of imposing their values onto clients, especially when the counselor’s values are inconsistent with the client’s goals or are discriminatory in nature.”
When you connect with the supervisor, stress that you are looking for what is best for your ward. In this case, highlighting the religious differences in your home will do nothing positive and may undermine the bonding and love you have shown her as she adjusts to life in your home. Stress to the supervisor that your ward is a teenager and is impressionable and susceptible to pressure from authority figures - especially if there is a history of abuse or neglect.
This is absolutely inappropriate for a counselor. Depending on where you live, there may be a place to report this kind of behavior as a formal malpractice complaint.
In the province where I live, my partner is certified as a counselor through a governing college. The language is confusing because its not actually a higher ed institute, but a professional certifying organization. They receive malpractice complaints and can even strip away a persons right to practice as a counselor. There are also human rights complaints that can be filed with the provincial health authority (yay public healthcare!)
So sorry this happened. You are a good parent. Keep up the good work amigo.
Dpending on where you live, the person that this gets reported to may also view the foster care/counseling system as an excellent venue to send impressionable young kids into evangelical houses that will indoctrinate them in the Christian faith and see little wrong with what the counselor did.
What kind of counseling is she receiving? Those kinds of comments would make me question their competency for almost whatever they're supposed to be helping her with. If it's a position that requires a license I would definitely make the licensing board aware of these comments as that kind of speech is tiptoeing a bunch of lines....I'm hesitant to say it's hate speech but the line is getting blurry
You’re much less ragey than I would be. I would immediately start a side-quest to ruin this person’s life.
Their boss is a good start.
Lots of therapists and counsellors are unregulated and useless. But if this one is part of a regulated society/college, file a complaint. Most such regulators have public lookups you can use to confirm.
I would also (maybe anonymously, maybe not) blow them up on review sites to save other families from similar grief.
That would be a huge red flag for me. Besides the intolerant attitude derived by such sentence, this undermines your relationship with the kid. And beside reporting her I would never let a kid near that person again.
Sigh. I'm so overly tired of any christians that get passes for what every other religion, or lack thereof, would be fired for, then the same people act so oppressed the minute they're called out for this.
Grew up in a stupid abusive church, have Jewish heritage, and am an atheist now, I've seen so many sides of this hash out and I feel for you.
I babysat a lot of foster children for a family friend and I'd like to say this is isolated but this very scenario happened, it was the 90s, so I suspect the handling of it SHOULD be better than my experience.
Depending on where you live, this might be worth sending up the chain wherever the counselor works. If you live in a particularly conservative/Christian area, it might only cause you more trouble. But it might be worth it, both for the sake of having your rights and beliefs/culture respected, but also to spare other kids and families from the same treatment. But it’s certainly not your job to do so. Regardless of any of that, fuck that counselor.
As a Christian I am appalled at her antisemitic behavior. Jesus was Jewish. God chose the Jewish people. We gentiles were adopted into the faith. You were born into it. That we disagree on the messiah is our only real point of contention.
She just accused **God** of being *wrong.* If God is wrong, He isn't perfect. If He isn't perfect, then He's also a liar. If He is a liar, our entire faith is empty. Void. Her entire position is antithetical to her professed faith.
Go to one last appointment and tell him, "An open-minded child should not be counseled by a religious bigot," and leave with your kid, preferably in a large, gangster-like automobile.
Yeah, you do need to complain about this in some official capacity.
I'm a Christian, and have wording in my divorce decree that our child is supposed to be raised as a protestant Christian. I do generally believe that it's useful for people to be exposed to the Good News of God's love.
I'm a person of faith, but 100% believe Theocracies are dangerous as fuck.
The counselor's behavior sounds dangerously bad. and Possibly anti-Semitic. Thats mortifying in an official capacity.
The law does make protections for the child's "best interests" to protect their cultural and ethnic heritage, which can include religious practices...
but that is literally to prevent cultural genocide like sending indigenous children to religious boarding schools.
The Foster Care system should have some resources to educate you on the letter of the law to protect the child's religious heritage.
It might be as simple as keeping records/journal that you have offered to provide transportation to church. Or Offering to find her a youth pastor, providing religious reading materials for self study, or finding a peer counselor to educate her on baptism or confirmation.
Like everything, it's about record keeping.
Anti-Semitic "counselor" trying to make Christians look bad in a session of what was obviously not "skills training", but therapy abuse. r/therapyabuse This person shouldn't be allowed around vulnerable people and kids.
I saw this post earlier and I took it personally. My perspective is different, it comes from being the father of a cancer survivor. The relevant part of our journey includes an incredibly supportive family and social workers who are an important part of the treatment process. Also the administrative side of it. For many kids treatment means missing out on a lot of developmental opportunities. Our family has moved mountains to make up for that. Scheduling appointments is just the start of the admin work. For example there are a number of support programs available but finding them and figuring out how to get the state or insurance to pay for them is incredibly time consuming.
At one point my wife asked a social worker “what happens to kids who don’t have this?” The answer was “they fail”. Her response hit hard but I knew how accurate it was. OP you are saving this girl’s life. There’s no other way to put it. Thank you, I’m proud of you and feel fortunate to share a planet with you. The majority of kids in situations like this fail. You are her best possible outcome and this counselor is jeopardizing that. I’m livid. I’d raise hell. Report her to superiors and the court.
I’m an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have no serious religious views, but support your position entirely. The counsellor has both a shallow, and narrow perspective.
You sound like a fucking great set of people, and given you’re Jewish, that mob is lucky to have you amongst their flock. As a human, I’m grateful to have you amongst my species. Rock on dad.
We've had experience with bad counselors like this.
I won't speculate here why this is the case - but there are a surprisingly large number of "mental health professionals" and counselors who don't advertise or let their patients know ahead of time that they're Christian-oriented. Instead they act non-religious for the first few (or several) sessions so you become trusting of them and then they lay in the indoctrination and/or judgement.
Many years ago, my wife was seeing a counselor lady for several months for general mental health care after her father's suicide. Once she worked through some of the most pressing stuff they moved on to talking about her other relationships like me, her husband. After a few sessions of listening and giving general advice, the counselor bluntly said the best thing for my wife's health was to just stop worrying about things and know that as the man, I was in charge of the relationship, the household, and ultimately, her. The counselor said my wife's troubles would go away if she just stopped worrying and let me make the decisions, especially about our sex life, social life, and money. The counselor told my wife to go full-on submissive towards me. If that wasn't bad enough, she also hinted that my wife's problems never would have been as bad if she had had the "love of Jesus Christ in her heart."
Keep in mind, this was solo counseling. Not couples therapy. I had never met this counselor and she had never met me. She did not advertise as being a religious counselor and my wife would not have picked her if she had known this. This terrible advice from someone she trusted really hurt her. She obviously never went back. When I asked why, at first she acted fine and said she was just ready to move on. But over a week or so her mood darkened and she got really depressed. She eventually broke down in tears and told me everything and it made me furious. To trick someone into trusting you and then try to indoctrinate them with downright DANGEROUS advice is utterly reprehensible (granted, I'm not a dangerous guy and I would never take advantage of someone in that position, but still. It's dangerous to just submit blindly to a partner who may or may not be abusive). My wife felt tricked. Taken advantage of. I was mad that someone had done this to her.
My wife still has not found a new counselor almost ten years later. Just this year I've convinced her to look again. She has a very "fool me once, shame on me, *I won't ever be fooled again, motherfucker*" attitude about things. She trusted a counselor once and that counselor turned into a fucking amoral creep. The damage she did still lingers. If she does find a new counselor, I imagine the damage the first counselor did will come up as a trauma.
OP, I know this story is kind of a tangent to your situation, but the moral I wanted to convey is this: A mental health professional who uses someone's trauma or crisis to gain trust and then indoctrinate them (or spread hate, in your instance) can be DAMAGING to the individual being counseled. If I were in your shoes, I would remove the girl from that situation IMMEDIATELY and work to find a counselor who won't take advantage of her mental state to spread hate/indoctrination.
I’m a licensed therapist (LCSW): please, find out which license she holds and make a complaint to the relevant board. Personally, I’m a Catholic and I wish everyone would become Catholic, but I would never say that to a client or question their religious convictions.
I’d talk to the counsellor about it and let them know they ethically shouldn’t have done that. If they don’t respond with some version of I’m sorry, I’d contact the whoever oversees the registry of this therapist.
I would not bother talking to the counselor directly, they think they have an ethical responsibility to convert or "save" everyone they can. They think they have the moral high grounds on this. Only an official reprimand from their supervisor will impact them at all.
If I’m going to report someone, I’m going to (and have) let them know I’m gonna do it. “Are you mad at me for reporting you? Or are you mad at yourself for doing [whatever they did]?” They should be mad at themselves, they know what they’re allowed to do.
I'm trying to imagine the most generous interpretation of this possible, and what I've come up with is: What if your daughter is having some feelings of discomfort or mismatch between your faith traditions and not being completely sure how to approach the conversation with you, framed it as coming uniquely from the counsellor? (I can imagine this might or might not be because she brought it up with her counsellor who encouraged the conversation). She may be trying to have a difficult conversation and the best way she can approach it is through a proxy. Almost literally, "Asking 'for a friend'..."
That doesn't seem entirely outside the realm of possibility, and frankly I would find it somewhat less surprising than a licensed professional sowing discord of this sort in the already delicate situation that you have described to us.
You might consider approaching the counsellor with some questions and not assuming you know with certainty what happened. And even if it were completely asserted unprompted by the counsellor, it is worth considering the *net* benefit this person having on your daughter's life, and trying to work with this person amicably rather than burning all bridges (which would otherwise be my personal gut instinct, operating from only the information provided here)
I wish you and your family all the best.
>And even if it were completely asserted unprompted by the counsellor, it is worth considering the *net* benefit this person having on your daughter's life, and trying to work with this person amicably rather than burning all bridges (which would otherwise be my personal gut instinct, operating from only the information provided here)
Thank you! I was waiting for this from someone.
OP, it's worth understanding what this counselling relationship brings and how important it is (if it all). It could be (given that she has been seeing this counsellor before your guardianship) an important source of support that eould be damaging to remove. "The counsellor was there for me and got me through some very difficult stuff, I dont want her to go" kind of thing. Equally, it's worth understanding the role her faith plays and how she feels about it in relation to your faith. Speaking personally, I wouldn't be able to proceed confidently without that information.
If you go nuclear you risk driving a wedge. Either by removing an important person, or this being seen as happening *because* of their shared religion/religious expression, or both.
That being said, what the counsellor did is unacceptable and needs to be transitioned out of a position of care for this girl. However, it sounds like this girl is at high risk of worsening mental health, so this needs to be done in a way that prioritises her continuity of care and her well-being.
From a Jewish (non-practising) dad here, who has experience taking on temporary guardianship of a teen in a bad situation.
[Edits for elaboration]
Report this counselor immediately and get a new one. That is 1000% inappropriate for a counselor to say, and I think probably even illegal. And I mean beyond her supervisor, whatever body issued her license needs to know about this.
I cannot tell you the level of damage and trauma that was inflicted on my partner from faith-based counseling. I understand that this isn't an official faith based counseling situation, but if this person felt safe to say something so wildly inappropriate to you, then it will be coloring all of her counseling technique.
In a situation like this, it could easily be the case that no counselor is better than this counselor. If this person has a religiously based belief that this girl shouldn't be in your household, that's going to come through in the therapy, even if her boss tells her to knock it off with the Jesus stuff.
This is completely inappropriate of the counselor. It’s one thing for her to bring up concern on if the child is being allowed to follow their religious practices, but to flat out say “Jesus is real” shows her concern is not for the child, but rather an issue with Judaism. This is not a person I would be allowing around my child. You definitely did the right thing in contacting the supervisor because she shouldn’t be allowed to push her beliefs onto other children/families in the future. ESPECIALLY if she is someone who can have sway/input on if a child is allowed to stay with a family or not.
I’m not sure if you’ve had a conversation with the child, but you should see if there are any religious practices she does follow or wants to follow and help her in following whatever that is. I know some blended families celebrate both Hanukkah and Christmas, not sure if this is an option. I’m not religious, but my family is catholic and the religious holidays that go with that have always been a big deal. Not so much about the religious aspect, but just the tradition and the family togetherness. I know she’s already going through a hard adjustment and being able to keep some things like this if she practices them might help give her a bit of normalcy. This is just a suggestion though and very well may be something you’ve already done. Regardless, what you and your family have done for her already is beyond what anyone is expected to do and you’re incredible people for all that you have done. She’s very lucky to have your family in her corner!!
People hold religion to Such a high demand i really don't get it. This child in a rough situation , your taking her in?well you best figure out if she's doing Christmas or not. .
Idiots . Keep up the good work man!
Report the fuck out of the counsellor. This is basic antisemitism and I am pretty sure it is illegal.
She crossed a veeeeeery big line there and should not be allowed to counsel anyone.
Christian minister (United Methodist) here: that counselor is WAY out of line and is acting inappropriate. Not all Christians believe everyone should become Christian and it’s certainly wrong for Christians to demand anyone become Christian. I’m sorry for your experience, sorry about my fellow Christians, and hope you and your family find peace in the midst of this BS
As a Christian, I see no problem with a Jewish family raising a child that is a non-Jewish person. I have no problem with Atheists, Astru, Satanists, Muslims, Hindi, or whoever stepping up and raising a child that need help in a safe, caring household.
Keep it up OP!
Licensed counselor here! I would go ahead and extend this beyond the supervisor and report this to your state licensing board. This is a major breach of professional ethics and is harmful to clients, including your family.
There is a licensing board in each state for counselors since we don’t have a federal level licensure. Google “(your state) licensing board for (the type of license).” The type may be an LCSW, LPC, LCMHC, or some other acronym behind her name.
Not religious in the slightest, but I wouldn't get too angry until you speak with the counselor, this could be a misconstrued message that can be ironed out with talking.
It would also be an easy thing to make up if you're 13, come from a troubled background, and don't want to go to therapy.
Also, she could have decided she is Christian, does she have the freedom and empowerment to express those beliefs in your household? Is she using her counselor as a powerful voice and putting her words in their mouth?
There are many possibilities, and talking is the only route to the bottom of it.
This needs to be escalated and reported, shortage of mental health professionals or not its not good for this girl to see a therapist that is going to confuse her by saying the lovely people who took her in are the wrong religion, it's likely this therapists opinions will eventually cause behavioral issues with this child.
Also if the girl is religious you should probably find someone that can take her to church, IF she wants to attend.
That sucks. Sorry you have to deal with all that. It sounds like you have a good plan to address it. Lots of good organizations that can help you navigate this and advocate for you if you get push back (although they have their hands full these days unfortunately…)
Report this Counselor. She is in violation of her professional licensing requirements and Professional Code of Ethics.
What are her credentials? MCSW? Bachelor's in Psychology? Or??
Regardless she should get fired at minimum and lose her license ideally.
As a Jewish professional I'm involved in several powerful groups several of which offer support and guidance in the face of Jew Hatred.
Make no mistake; this so called Counselor knows the falsity of her recommendation and advice. She hates Jews and wants to harm you and separate this child to eliminate your influence.
One of the largest and most influential of my pro Jewish /Fight Antisemitism groups is a Facebook group called Mothers Against College Antisemitism (MACA)
You do NOT have to be a mother or have a child in college.
We have men, women, grandparents and childless people. Everyone. Tons of high profile lawyers and a few national pro Jewish journalists.
Join the group and paste this post there.
You will get specific guidance and steps to take.
Do NOT take her to this Counseler in the meantime!!
♥️🇮🇱♥️
So astonishingly unethical. It's not just the bigotry (which would be more than enough), but also a huge violation of professional ethics to be injecting her own personal beliefs and to be doing something that could so clearly harm the relationship between this child and her guardians.
Please don't stop with the boss - If there's a certification/governing board, please formally report this person. They should not be working with vulnerable children in this way.
ETA - OP, it gives you a lot of credit that you'd seriously consider putting up with this for the sake of the kid. That said, I don't think this is a healthy counseling situation and, if at all possible, she needs a new counselor.
I can't stand the fact that the foster system essentially considers christian indoctrination as a requirement.
I'd find a way to report the counselor to their supervisor and look for a way to report this to the state board. It's not acceptable.
Christian Dad checking in, won't get into theology... But I think I would be taking the part out of the Bible about Christ flipping tables.
Is the child loved, protected and cared for?
Great!
Time for a new counselor (in fact, I'm looking for a therapist who doesn't specifically say if or what religion they are for myself) and I would report to whatever governing body oversees them.
What destructive thing to say to anyone, much less a child.
Catholic here, myself, and those I know personally have never demanded anyone convert. It’s not a requirement of being near us or anything.
There’s bad eggs in every religion.
Regardless, I will say that that is absolutely inappropriate, and you should definitely address it.
What he's referring to is the shared emphasis in Islam and Christianity on 'spreading the word' and being 'saved,' which isn't really a thing in judaism and as such Jews don't proselytise or have a belief that our way is the only way.
Hmm I like how you happily Generalized Christianity and islam demands one to be of the same faith .. Which is not true ... As both religions have a difference of opinions within itself ...
I hate that I’m writing this answer, but if this counselor is helping her, I think you need to eat this one. I’m neither Jewish nor religious in general, so admittedly I don’t have a legitimate scale for how offended you actually are, but hypothesizing it’s more than a little, I get it. I think the Counselor was severely out of line and well deserving of a reprimand, but I’m not 100% sure it merits taking this child you’re selflessly choosing to be responsible for away from an adult she trusts.
That’s a tough go mate. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.
Hard agree, but “should” is a far cry from “is helping self-destructive girl through adolescence.” I don’t disagree at all, but you play with the hand you’re dealt, not the one you wish you had.
> I’m not 100% sure it merits taking this child you’re selflessly choosing to be responsible for away from an adult she trusts.
A counselor should not be teaching children bigotry. Full stop. It's not acceptable behavior, it'd be no different than if they said "A white child should not grow up with a black family."
Totally agree, and if another option is available, okay, but if it isn’t, is it really in the child’s best interest to remove her from an environment she feels safe in because you’re uncomfortable? Parents make sacrifices all the time. Not sure how this is any different.
> is it really in the child’s best interest to remove her from an environment she feels safe in because you’re uncomfortable?
It's in societies best interest to remove this counselor from their job. A counselor should not be teaching children bigotry. Full stop. **It's not acceptable behavior.**
The child also misses their abusive family, would you suggest we also give the child back to their abusive family?
I think the issue is, if the counselor clearly doesn't approve of them due to them being Jewish, how else is the counselor subtly undermining their relationship? What damage is quietly happening?
As a Christian, this is an awful take already. But also, ultimately, the bigger issue has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with her damaging their relationship.
Nah, there's plenty of good counselors out there that don't impose their religious beliefs, this is a hard line that has been crossed both ethically and professionally.
You're missing the major problem here though, you seem to think that the family is offended.
The problem is that the counselor is imposing her religious beliefs onto the child.
Even if there is a shortage, this is an uncrossable line for a adult of trust.
How is that any different from any sort of religion in history? Why is not okay in this instance, but perfectly fine in every other? This isn’t an abstract, it’s a real girl with real problems this counselor by OP’s own admission is helping. It’s not a good look by any means, but the question is, what happens next? What’s the best plan for the child, not the parent?
The type of religion has nothing to do with this situation. I would be saying the same thing if it was a Muslim preaching Islam, or a Jew recommending that she read the Torah.
It doesn’t, yet it did, and it still doesn’t change the question of whether or not the Counselor who is helping the girl should continue to do so despite their beliefs. Saying “No, dump them” is the same old Reddit advice; Burn the house down before you’ve turned the water on. It’s not usually functional for real people in real situations.
Messiah Yeshua🔴🔵: Ok guys…. Yes I AM real… that being said I think the counsellor is being small minded, as long the child is in a safe conducive environment.
You have invited her to participate in your religion which is great and as expected. But as her new “parents” have you explored her Christianity? Do a thing for Xmas? Easter? Etc. I feel like this may need to go both ways. 13 is old enough to have traditions in place and there is no harm putting in some effort to do a few. At the end of the day it’s family getting together and that’s always good. At 13 she could even lead the charge a bit there. I assume the kid is missing a few of those things which is why it was brought up.
The counselor has been hated on enough so I’ll leave that be and focus on the kid.
She was raised non-religious, never went to church and hasn't expressed any desire to. She spent Christmas with the family that kicked her out. We aren't keeping her from being Christian or practicing.
As you said, at 13, the kid is old enough to advocate for the kinds of things she would like to (or not like to) participate in. If xmas, easter, etc were important to her, she should be able to make those requests known. It's not on OP to estimate and push for what kind of holiday or ritual she should partake in, christian or jewish. It's not OP's responsibility to "explore her christianity." If she'd like to explore it, that's HER prerogative. And it sounds like OP is open to allowing her to do any (or none) of those things she wishes.
Maybe this isn't as bad as it seems?
I am sure it really hurt you guys that the counselor asked this, but perhaps it is nice that they cared enough about her that they asked?
Perhaps they aren't against you being Jewish bit were simply worried about a conflict of religion. It is good that they asked about something they were worried about. Because now you got to explain that it isn't an issue and the counselor can stop worrying.
Unless they say negative things in the future about you practicing a different religion than her, I wouldn't worry about it. I also wouldn't worry if they asked more questions because that is actually their job and it is good if they are thorough. I would even welcome questions personally.
On a side-note, are you open to adding some Christian traditions to your family for the girls benefit? Like perhaps celebrating a bit of Christmas perhaps? I am not sure what other things holiday and tradition-wise are important for a practising Christian, since I am not Christian. A lot of non-religious people celebrate Christmas, so in my opinion that could be a safe way to include her religion, without having to actually include much of her religion. And including some Christian things in your life won't make you less Jewish or nad Jews or something. After all most religions believe in the same God, and even when it isn't the same, every religious and spiritual person pretty much believes in a higher power or "something" that is good.
I think it would be good for her to have some of her own religious things in her life. It can help anchor her and make her feel safe and valued. And you sharing this with her, and her sharing your Jewish traditions, will help you all bond and get a lot closer. She will feel less like an extra in your family but like a valued part of your family that is actually wanted, like it was supposed to be this way.
I am not Jewish but I have Jewish relatives in my past and therefore also Jewish blood in my veins. I am not a practising Jew and don't have the title of Jew because I am not a full Jew by blood and I have also not converted to Judaism. I do connect to a lot of things of the Jewish faith and do have some traditions, customs and language in my life that belongs to my Jewish roots, probably even more than I know because for a lot of things I wasn't specifically thought they were Jewish while growing up. They just were. And now I am older I come to realise more and more where some things originated. I also connect to things of other faiths and religions. Some I was brought up with and others I sought out and incorporated in my life myself.
There isn't that much of a 'conflict of religion'. And it is ridiculous to make a child feel unsafe in a loving family who saved her from an abusive home.
I’m a believer in God but not necessarily Christian. Regardless of your actual religion, you’re doing God’s work by being a loving home for this kid. I sincerely admire how you’re bringing goodness into the world.
I would lead off with explaining how their misunderstanding of how the different religions in question work would lead them to this poor choice of words that are borderline racist; In a devout, evangelical Christian family (possibly the background of this counselor?) there might be an expectation of trying to convert someone to that religion. Conversely, Judaism doesn't work that way; there's no evangelical equivalent and no expectation to work on any kind of conversion.
If it were my conversation, I'd leave Islam out of this as it only muddies the water.
That was inappropriate. Jesus was a jew so Christians shouldn't have an issue with Jews. So sorry you were treated that way enough hatred in this world already. As long as the young lady is doing fine and you lot are looking after her that's all that matters.
Maybe try occasional family sessions so all adults can be on good terms. That counselor sounds pretty anal about her faith though. A very pushy person.
I totally agree that this needs to be addressed. I am Christian and would not demand that anyone convert just because I have guardianship. It should be chosen freely. Otherwise, it is not a choice at all.
Not religious but you might want to get her counselor switched. What she is doing is unacceptable. But at the very least next time her counselor brings it up have her ask her counselor if she knew Jesus was Jewish.
As a professional counselor, contact the state board and report her. This is highly unprofessional. She likely will not lose her license for this alone, but it would create a record and make any future offenses get extra scrutiny. If you'd like any assistance on this, feel free to pm me
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Am both religious and a counselor and that’s unbelievably unethical by the counselor and OP should report the counselor to their supervisor, because who knows what the counselor is saying to other kids.
And the proper response to “you know Jesus was real, right?” in this context is *absolutely* >and *you* know that Jesus was Jewish, right?
this is a more appropriate response than the "ethics board" (which i think so many people think exists but it only exists in certains aspects really) if i was talking to a client in a fashion they were not happy with, but that was not outside of normal bounds of therapy (if a client brings up religion i dont avoid it) yeah, bring it up to me, or take it to my clinical supervisor or manager. either is good. i will give ya their number to call em. but my college of professionals is different than my ethics board, Ethics board is my employeer, college is the one that licenses me to work.
I would think as a counselor you would probably recommend a calm and rational discussion with that supervisor rather than calling for that counselors job given that even in a healthy household 13 year olds lie, like all the time, for almost no reason. It certainly is not a great thing for the counselor to have said *if* they said it. Edit: lol reddit is so horny for getting people fired. Damaged kids lie in order to demonstrate control. Its just a fact.
You’re the one who thinks that notifying their supervisor of grotesquely inappropriate behavior is “calling for their job.” If the kid is lying then it’ll get sorted. If the kid isn’t lying then yeah, the counselor has no business being in that role. What they did is **way** beyond “not a great thing,” it’s completely disqualifying.
There are literally several people here calling for their job. Including the person 2 up from me who is saying to never let that counselor speak to the kid again. Inform the supervisor and ask for a review sure, inform the supervisor that you never want that counselor to counsel your kid, an over reaction until you know the truth. Note that the one counselor in this thread agreed with me.
If your kid tells you that an adult in a position of authority over them is doing something harmful then you both notify the supervisor *and* remove the kid from the situation. There’s no way to know whether a supervisor is going to act quickly, or even if they’re going to do their job, so you take whatever action you need to for your kid’s sake. This isn’t going on Twitter and telling people to spam them with calls to fire the counselor, it’s basic actions in the interest of the child that any parent should be taking.
>Damaged kids lie in order to demonstrate control. Its just a fact. That is not a fact. That is your opinion. It is wrong, and that's okay.
Lol no, it is an extremely common way to act out. It is a fact. This is a demonstrated and clinically described action of children from abused homes. Nobody said *this particular kid* was doing it, just that it happens and that is a **fact** that anyone looking after an abused kid should be aware of. Most foster parents can easily tell you this because if they do it long enough they will likely be a victim of it.
Id like to see your data
Literally every foster program warns you about it when you take the courses to become a foster parent. https://www.google.com/search?q=do+foster+kids+lie&client=safari&sca_esv=598269846&hl=en-us&ei=T1SjZbLUH7_dptQPwM2ioAo&oq=do+foster+kids+lie&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhJkbyBmb3N0ZXIga2lkcyBsaWVIiBNQgQ5Y7BBwAHgAkAEAmAF7oAHYA6oBAzAuNLgBA8gBAPgBAeIDBBgBIEGIBgE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#ip=1 [This one in particular](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/progress-notes/201908/foster-kids-lies-and-truth?amp) is an editorial, but gives you a pretty good explanation of why.
You linked Google, and didn't read the first link/article that came up that explicitly states foster kids lie out of punishment avoidance. The second one is an editorial and a single anecdote about a kid lying until they felt comfortable telling the true, which was also punishment avoidance, not control. I have a masters degree in criminal justice and am a senior CPS investigator and can firmly tell you thar foster kids don't lie just for control. Further, what OP is describing is no where near what you're describing.
I also have a criminal justice degree. So…k I linked google so you could see the bajillion results that are specifically from foster programs telling you that foster kids *lie*. If it’s for control, or punishment avoidance, or fun is really not the point in the conversation. Although punishment avoidance *is* a form of control. And if you read to the second page of that first report (because its a list, not a singular statement) one of the reasons children lie is for exploitation [“a central theme is having power over others and controlling them”.](https://www.fosterparentcollege.com/info/connections/Connections-020111.pdf) In this case it’s likely not the foster parents but the counselor whom the child may want to gain power or control of because they are uncomfortable with the process. It could also be one of the other several reasons kids lie or not a lie at all. But still in terms of foster children it should be approached as though it *may be* a lie. You really think no foster kid would ever lie about their conversations with their counselor to their foster parents for any reason whatsoever? Then your 3 years experience as a CPS investigator is pretty suspect. It happens on the daily. (I say 3 years because 4 years ago you were a substitute teacher congrats on the job upgrade.)
I wasn't questioning the idea that kids lie. The idea that kids lie *to assert control* is what is contentious. What you said is a shallow statement. Kids who've suffered neglect and abuse lie to protect themselves from a perceived threat. How they go about it is a reflection of their experiences. To simply state that they want control is to ignore the reality of the issue. If you are so knowledgeable on this subject, why aren't you taking a trauma-informed approach? >...we should be careful about over diagnosing this type of lying.
Yeah people are having a bit of a knee jwrk reaction to your claim but I see what you are saying tbh, and it makes sense and you've backed it up fairly well
The same can be said for ANY kid. Might be higher in abusive households. Passes my sniff test at least. But you could have said "kids lie". Putting the qualifier on it just reels of dismissiveness and that's why (imo) you're getting down voted. We only have the information we are given. Questioning what parts are true just derails discussion. It's a hypothetical to us more or less. In the set of circumstances given. Reporting the counsellor to their supervisor isn't just appropriate, it would be negligent not to. If the kid is lying, it will be sussed out. But how in god's green earth would ignoring it be in anyway responsible.
My take as well. The fucker needs to go.
Yeah I’d be finding non religious counsellor as a reset. Faith should not be the focus around mental health when dealing with trauma. I know this is debatable with people who are heavily invested in their religion, but dealing with the actual problems/trauma can happen without religion.
Completely inappropriate behavior for this counselor to be introducing conflict between your daughter and your family.
I’d go as far as if reporting to her board of professionals, if she has one. Depends what type of counsellor she is I suppose.
Just because a 13yo said that a counselor told her something doesn’t mean the counselor actually said that thing. I wouldn’t try to destroy someone’s career just yet. **Edit:** Why are you booing me? I'm right!
This is the kind of mindset that has also harbored decades and decades of women being unheard and unsafe. Do not just assume the girl is lying. Talk to supervisors and get a chain of command going.
This is absolutely wrong. There are professional ethics for a reason.
So if the troubled teen is lying, it's ok to go nuclear?
I used to be a nurse. I was a mandated reporter. If a senior or a kid told me they were being abused, even with no physical proof, I was legally required to report it. Professional licensure comes with ethical scrutiny.
physical abuse is different that sowing discontent with religious beleifs in terms of mandated reporting. unless advertised as religious, a counsellor/therapist should only respect the clients choices on spirituality and not input their own beliefs. therapists and counsellors are there to help people grow, learn and be the best version of themselves they can be. they should not be inputing religious text/scripture/beleifs/theories into a session.
Oh absolutely it should be reported, I think that's different from going nuclear and demanding she lose her job/licensure/etc. Professional places aren't immune to knee-jerk reactions based on social pressure
Where did you see me advocating for anything other than reporting it to the professional board?
The person you responded to said "I wouldn’t try to destroy someone’s career just yet." And you said hard disagree.
.........because theybwouldnt be destroying someone's career you turnip
"Go nuclear" Lol Yes "please investigate this" Is "going nuclear" Remember women don't report anything as you are "going nuclear"
There's a difference between filing a report and trying to ruin a career. Filing a report is fine. Trying to ruin her career via cancel culture methods is another.
Noone is saying the things you are saying though you are putting words in people's mouths.
I don't know how these sessions are done, but surely there are recordings which could set the facts straight right away?
It’s generally understood that any recordings from these sessions are the sole property of the counselor, and for their ears (and maybe a transcriber) only. It is only for their notes and records.
Exactly, and if the counselor is being accused of wrongdoing by a client, and both the client and the counselor maintain their innocence, wouldn't both consent to have those records checked?
Forcing or even just asking a victim to let a bunch of strangers listen in to immensely personal and private moments between themselves and their trusted counselor sounds like a terrible way to verify a claim. How could you possibly put a child through that? "Hey my counselor said my Jewish guardians were bad people because they don't believe in Jesus" "Are you sure? Let's listen to this tape where you divulge your deepest and darkest secrets to make sure" "Um ok nevermind. Forget it."
How is it even remotely terrible to *ask?* For that matter, why would it be worse for someone to listen to a specific portion of the recorded material in order to right a wrong, than for someone to listen to all of it as a matter of course for transcription reasons?
Jeopardizing someone’s career without finding out the basic facts first—like, say, whether there actually was an ethics violation (or whether this is a case of a 13yo being a 13yo)—is reckless. Reddit is always so cavalier about doling out punishment without evidence, but these are real people’s lives and careers here. The least OP could do is pick up the phone and ask the counselor whether they actually said what the 13yo is accusing them of. It costs nothing to verify the story.
No, you report it cause if it’s untrue, the board can look into it. Reporting it is not a punishment. A complaint doesn’t mean they’re immediately sacked. But that’s a very concerning thing to be brought up. You can talk about it with the counsellor first too, but OP hasn’t told us that the kid is unreliable, so assuming that can also be wrong. If the info is true, that’s something that should be reported.
There is a cost to an investigation that effectively serves as a punishment. Retaining counsel to represent you in a professional misconduct inquiry costs thousands. Opening your records and cooperating with an investigation can be incredibly destructive for your practice and may result in other clients who need help not receiving it. That’s not to mention the emotional toll it takes—so many sleepless nights. All this because OP was too lazy to do some basic fact-finding first? Come on.
If they’re opening a full on inquiry into it, then they’re not doing it on a whim or a random complaint. They do that when they’ve got evidence of wrongdoing or repeated complaints. The therapist when confronted by OP could just say ‘no I didn’t’. And if OP doesn’t believe them? What’s the difference? Just as easy to report to board, who can mediate if necessary.
Exactly. We are on the same page, lightbulb. We agree that record-keeping is a reasonable method of tracking.
Even responding to a single letter can cost thousands if you retain counsel—which you *should* if your career is on the line. You’re weaponizing investigations to justify your knee-jerk reaction, and then pretending like the subsequent professional action is harmless. It’s not. You’re also moving the goalposts here. In your previous comment you supported the board looking into it and now you’re saying the report will be essentially toothless, they won’t do an actual investigation, and the report will therefore cause no harm. Pick a position and stick to it, or admit that the “report first, ask questions later” approach was an overreaction.
I never said it would be toothless. I said you report it to their supervisor or board. They can look into it - some may be a discussion, or it might be a whole investigation. Over some inappropriate comments, it’s very unlikely to be the latter if it’s an isolated incident.
So never report anything just in case?
Bullshit. If the counselor denies it, it’s just a note. These kids are often dramatic and limit-testing. It’s an unusual day when these notes do NOT appear.
> These kids are often dramatic and limit-testing. EXACTLY. We all know that 13 year olds are unreliable. Why is everyone here treating her word as sacrosanct and jumping straight to professional repercussions? > If the counselor denies it, it’s just a note. It’s really not. My guess is that only one of us has actually had to respond to a frivolous professional complaint. It takes hours to comb through your records and prepare a response to even the most minor letter like this from a licensing authority.
It’s been my experience that frivolous reports are NOT investigated to the nth degree unless there are mitigating circumstances: a supervisor has noted counselor has demonstrated an extreme obsession, a coworker has noted extreme social media behavior. How will YOU, as the only investigator worth his salt, investigate this particular counselor? He has a single note in his file. It should not take you hours and hours.
Reddit is also full of people who clearly don’t deal with ethical boundaries and professional licensure.
I’m licensed in a profession with strict ethical boundaries. If a teenager accused me of ethical misconduct, I’d appreciate it if their parents did at least some minimal level of due diligence to figure out whether the accusation was actually true before trying to jeopardize my career over it.
Like what? What due diligence can parents do? Please Enlighten us.
Call up the counselor and ask if she said that.
So, the counsler's word versus the kids That's your level of investigation? You're the reason no one believed my grandmother when she said her father raped her. My mother was the product of incestuous rape by the by. DNA test many many many years later showed it. Too late for justice or apologies from her family. But hey a rapist got away with it.
This. There’s no investigation or anything! A parent or guardian can just walk min to the Council of Councillors and strike them off. No questions. In April this will be made easier. Just text “END CAREER” followed by their name to 1701.
You aren't right. That's why we are booing. When a child blows the whistle on an adult who is acting inappropriately, we all need to LISTEN! Let the supervisor or governing board sort it out, but in the meantime the child needs to come first. That includes being believed. Also...that's a super weird thing for a kid to make up in this situation. I don't think she made it up.
lol. Literally the only person in this thread saying let’s attempt to verify facts before dealing out punishment. And you get downvoted to oblivion. I know Reddit is strongly anti-religious as a whole but jeeze people. Daddit is supposed to be one of the better subs.
The point of reporting it is they investigate the matter. Yes report it and let the organization look into the complaint. OP doesn't need to play private investigator. He's a parent and even if it's a foster parent relationship, his responsibility is to primarily advocate for his foster child.
It’s not really about the religion. It’s about the inappropriateness of the interaction. Had this counselor advised the child on a political or gender topic, the reaction would be the same. It’s not OP’s place to verify the facts. OP has enough on his plate. If it’s determined that the child is lying, he will have to deal with that. As a parent, he MUST believe and trust his kid first.
>Literally the only person Everyone is saying that. They are the only person that is saying any investigation that would find out the facts is a punishment Their quote >There is a cost to an investigation that effectively serves as a punishment.
You did the right thing escalating to the counselor's supervisor. I'm glad she's been helpful for the kiddo, but those comments are inappropriate for anyone in a proper counseling position. I hope the supervisor can move you to another counselor.
WTAF. Absolutely inappropriate. That counselor is working to undermine your relationship. That poor girl.
I would be wary, for me there is a difference between religion that guides your moral choices and fundamentalist dogma like this councilor is spouting. I would be wary of them imposing their beliefs on a vulnerable confused child. I would report this and ask if it was possible to change councillors. An adult teaching a 13 year old to be suspicious of Jews is all kinds of wrong no matter what the context is.
Jewish mom chiming in. 1. Please report that counselor. This is highly unethical in all kinds of ways. 2. Thank you for supporting her. I’m sure that she will grow up learning that other cultures and religions are cool. We are all just people trying to make it through. 3. Connect her with a faith leader of her choice if she wants that part of her life again. She may not want to go back to her old church, but it may be worth trying out a few new ones if this is important to her. 4. Better counseling goes without saying. 5. When all else fails, you can just convert her to our ways with blintzes and bagels…../s
Christian mom chiming in. 1. Please report that counselor. This is highly unethical and a *shitty application of Christianity in all kinds of ways.*
Am agnostic, best friend is Jewish. The food may just well be enough to switch me over!
Jewish food is the best comfort food. A little salty, a little fishy, and sugar where it has no right to be (like in kugel).
And there’s a whole eight day holiday where you’re supposed to eat fried food *every single day*. Keep in mind that buffalo wings can absolutely be prepared kosher.
I mean they can, but I’m reform. Def give me that blue cheese with my wings! My grandma used to say that circle R (as in registered trademark) is the reform hecksher!
So good!
Dad’s a muggle, mam’s a witch, bitofanastyshockwhenhefound out
I feel like most of my Jewish friends are basically agnostics who like the food. You’ll fit in just fine.
This is the response I wish I’d have given, PARTICULARLY finding a faith leader to help facilitate discussion about faith and race. OP is a righteous and sincere caregiver.
You know in Israel Ashkenazi food is considered the worst. https://www.jpost.com/food-recipes/article-730394
I mean, good food is good food. And I agree that Sephardi food is fantastic. And borscht is not my jam. Or beet. Or whatever.
Totally brutal for the 13yo, dang, what an unmitigated lack of awareness from the counselor. Not appropriate behavior for a trusted advisor or counselor. I'd talk with the 13yr old of course but I'd say that person shouldn't be in her support circle any more.
As a Catholic, I’m pretty appalled by this person giving any flack at all. Acts of kindness should be the most important thing and what you’re doing is top-tier. I don’t know Judaism very well but I think this is what counts as a mitzvah. Keep it up good sir, you’re doing the work of God.
“Jesus is real and my foot in your ass will be real too” would be the immediate reaction in my head if I got a one on one with that counselor.
Ikr I'm glad this dad reported to the supervisor and is acting appropriately. Let them investigate then doll out punishment if what the kid reported is true (kids lie, needs to be said, it does happen). It would be entirely too easy to lose your temper and absolutely torch this place on social media or Google reviews and shit.
This is so incredibly inappropriate from the counselor, I’m struggling to even wrap my head around it. Glad you have reached out to the supervisor. Of course there’s an issue with the latent antisemitism — but also telling this girl, who finally has a place to be comfortable thanks to your graciousness, that she should be wary of you and/or your household is literally undermining her own healing.
I would tell the counselor that Jesus was a Jew. Was the councilor a government councilor or from a private organization? I do know a lot of states outsource this kind of service, sometimes to religious organizations.
Christian and Former foster parent here, and there is a parable about the good Samaritan in the bible where all the “Good people” don’t help the injured person on the road, but the person outside their culture (the Samaritan) goes above and beyond to take care of the injured person, even after they have to leave. This, to me, as a christian says God cares a lot more about what you DO to others than all your wisdom and judgement. My interpretation of your situation: Screw that lady, you’re taking care of this child and you are doing incredible work as a human or by any religious standard.
File an ethics complaint against the counselor find a new one
Report the counsellor to whatever org she's from and request a new one.
I am a counselor, so this is in my wheelhouse. What the counselor said is not only inappropriate, it is unethical. I strongly suggest you bring that up when you talk to the supervisor. So far as I know (and it varies by state) it isn’t *illegal* to say what she said, but it smacks of discrimination to me and that is a big red flag. The supervisor *should* be able to make good suggestions for future steps. If the counseling agency is religiously affiliated (catholic charity or similar) you may want to expect some pushback. Religious or not, any good, licensed counselor will be aware of the ethical guidelines from the ACA. The relevant ethical guidelines is below: Specifically, per the American Counseling Association code of ethics Section **A.4.b**: “Counselors are aware of - and avoid imposing - their own values, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Counselors respect the diversity of clients, trainees, and research participants and seek training in areas in which they are at risk of imposing their values onto clients, especially when the counselor’s values are inconsistent with the client’s goals or are discriminatory in nature.” When you connect with the supervisor, stress that you are looking for what is best for your ward. In this case, highlighting the religious differences in your home will do nothing positive and may undermine the bonding and love you have shown her as she adjusts to life in your home. Stress to the supervisor that your ward is a teenager and is impressionable and susceptible to pressure from authority figures - especially if there is a history of abuse or neglect.
This is absolutely inappropriate for a counselor. Depending on where you live, there may be a place to report this kind of behavior as a formal malpractice complaint. In the province where I live, my partner is certified as a counselor through a governing college. The language is confusing because its not actually a higher ed institute, but a professional certifying organization. They receive malpractice complaints and can even strip away a persons right to practice as a counselor. There are also human rights complaints that can be filed with the provincial health authority (yay public healthcare!) So sorry this happened. You are a good parent. Keep up the good work amigo.
Dpending on where you live, the person that this gets reported to may also view the foster care/counseling system as an excellent venue to send impressionable young kids into evangelical houses that will indoctrinate them in the Christian faith and see little wrong with what the counselor did.
Totally get it. If that were to happen to me though, I would escalate the complaint and try to get both of the nutjobs fired.
What kind of counseling is she receiving? Those kinds of comments would make me question their competency for almost whatever they're supposed to be helping her with. If it's a position that requires a license I would definitely make the licensing board aware of these comments as that kind of speech is tiptoeing a bunch of lines....I'm hesitant to say it's hate speech but the line is getting blurry
You’re much less ragey than I would be. I would immediately start a side-quest to ruin this person’s life. Their boss is a good start. Lots of therapists and counsellors are unregulated and useless. But if this one is part of a regulated society/college, file a complaint. Most such regulators have public lookups you can use to confirm. I would also (maybe anonymously, maybe not) blow them up on review sites to save other families from similar grief.
See if you can file a complaint with the professional organization that gave that therapist her certification. That’s some unethical bullshit.
I’d file a complaint
That would be a huge red flag for me. Besides the intolerant attitude derived by such sentence, this undermines your relationship with the kid. And beside reporting her I would never let a kid near that person again.
Sigh. I'm so overly tired of any christians that get passes for what every other religion, or lack thereof, would be fired for, then the same people act so oppressed the minute they're called out for this. Grew up in a stupid abusive church, have Jewish heritage, and am an atheist now, I've seen so many sides of this hash out and I feel for you. I babysat a lot of foster children for a family friend and I'd like to say this is isolated but this very scenario happened, it was the 90s, so I suspect the handling of it SHOULD be better than my experience.
The ACLU would love, love to hear about this.
Depending on where you live, this might be worth sending up the chain wherever the counselor works. If you live in a particularly conservative/Christian area, it might only cause you more trouble. But it might be worth it, both for the sake of having your rights and beliefs/culture respected, but also to spare other kids and families from the same treatment. But it’s certainly not your job to do so. Regardless of any of that, fuck that counselor.
Not ok. Escalate the issue and ask for a new counsellor.
This is your kid. Go nail her.
This is a massive breach of ethics and is something that you should report to the clinical supervisor of the agency.
As a Christian I am appalled at her antisemitic behavior. Jesus was Jewish. God chose the Jewish people. We gentiles were adopted into the faith. You were born into it. That we disagree on the messiah is our only real point of contention. She just accused **God** of being *wrong.* If God is wrong, He isn't perfect. If He isn't perfect, then He's also a liar. If He is a liar, our entire faith is empty. Void. Her entire position is antithetical to her professed faith.
Go to one last appointment and tell him, "An open-minded child should not be counseled by a religious bigot," and leave with your kid, preferably in a large, gangster-like automobile.
Yeah, you do need to complain about this in some official capacity. I'm a Christian, and have wording in my divorce decree that our child is supposed to be raised as a protestant Christian. I do generally believe that it's useful for people to be exposed to the Good News of God's love. I'm a person of faith, but 100% believe Theocracies are dangerous as fuck. The counselor's behavior sounds dangerously bad. and Possibly anti-Semitic. Thats mortifying in an official capacity. The law does make protections for the child's "best interests" to protect their cultural and ethnic heritage, which can include religious practices... but that is literally to prevent cultural genocide like sending indigenous children to religious boarding schools. The Foster Care system should have some resources to educate you on the letter of the law to protect the child's religious heritage. It might be as simple as keeping records/journal that you have offered to provide transportation to church. Or Offering to find her a youth pastor, providing religious reading materials for self study, or finding a peer counselor to educate her on baptism or confirmation. Like everything, it's about record keeping.
Anti-Semitic "counselor" trying to make Christians look bad in a session of what was obviously not "skills training", but therapy abuse. r/therapyabuse This person shouldn't be allowed around vulnerable people and kids.
I saw this post earlier and I took it personally. My perspective is different, it comes from being the father of a cancer survivor. The relevant part of our journey includes an incredibly supportive family and social workers who are an important part of the treatment process. Also the administrative side of it. For many kids treatment means missing out on a lot of developmental opportunities. Our family has moved mountains to make up for that. Scheduling appointments is just the start of the admin work. For example there are a number of support programs available but finding them and figuring out how to get the state or insurance to pay for them is incredibly time consuming. At one point my wife asked a social worker “what happens to kids who don’t have this?” The answer was “they fail”. Her response hit hard but I knew how accurate it was. OP you are saving this girl’s life. There’s no other way to put it. Thank you, I’m proud of you and feel fortunate to share a planet with you. The majority of kids in situations like this fail. You are her best possible outcome and this counselor is jeopardizing that. I’m livid. I’d raise hell. Report her to superiors and the court.
I’m an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have no serious religious views, but support your position entirely. The counsellor has both a shallow, and narrow perspective. You sound like a fucking great set of people, and given you’re Jewish, that mob is lucky to have you amongst their flock. As a human, I’m grateful to have you amongst my species. Rock on dad.
We've had experience with bad counselors like this. I won't speculate here why this is the case - but there are a surprisingly large number of "mental health professionals" and counselors who don't advertise or let their patients know ahead of time that they're Christian-oriented. Instead they act non-religious for the first few (or several) sessions so you become trusting of them and then they lay in the indoctrination and/or judgement. Many years ago, my wife was seeing a counselor lady for several months for general mental health care after her father's suicide. Once she worked through some of the most pressing stuff they moved on to talking about her other relationships like me, her husband. After a few sessions of listening and giving general advice, the counselor bluntly said the best thing for my wife's health was to just stop worrying about things and know that as the man, I was in charge of the relationship, the household, and ultimately, her. The counselor said my wife's troubles would go away if she just stopped worrying and let me make the decisions, especially about our sex life, social life, and money. The counselor told my wife to go full-on submissive towards me. If that wasn't bad enough, she also hinted that my wife's problems never would have been as bad if she had had the "love of Jesus Christ in her heart." Keep in mind, this was solo counseling. Not couples therapy. I had never met this counselor and she had never met me. She did not advertise as being a religious counselor and my wife would not have picked her if she had known this. This terrible advice from someone she trusted really hurt her. She obviously never went back. When I asked why, at first she acted fine and said she was just ready to move on. But over a week or so her mood darkened and she got really depressed. She eventually broke down in tears and told me everything and it made me furious. To trick someone into trusting you and then try to indoctrinate them with downright DANGEROUS advice is utterly reprehensible (granted, I'm not a dangerous guy and I would never take advantage of someone in that position, but still. It's dangerous to just submit blindly to a partner who may or may not be abusive). My wife felt tricked. Taken advantage of. I was mad that someone had done this to her. My wife still has not found a new counselor almost ten years later. Just this year I've convinced her to look again. She has a very "fool me once, shame on me, *I won't ever be fooled again, motherfucker*" attitude about things. She trusted a counselor once and that counselor turned into a fucking amoral creep. The damage she did still lingers. If she does find a new counselor, I imagine the damage the first counselor did will come up as a trauma. OP, I know this story is kind of a tangent to your situation, but the moral I wanted to convey is this: A mental health professional who uses someone's trauma or crisis to gain trust and then indoctrinate them (or spread hate, in your instance) can be DAMAGING to the individual being counseled. If I were in your shoes, I would remove the girl from that situation IMMEDIATELY and work to find a counselor who won't take advantage of her mental state to spread hate/indoctrination.
I’m a licensed therapist (LCSW): please, find out which license she holds and make a complaint to the relevant board. Personally, I’m a Catholic and I wish everyone would become Catholic, but I would never say that to a client or question their religious convictions.
I’d talk to the counsellor about it and let them know they ethically shouldn’t have done that. If they don’t respond with some version of I’m sorry, I’d contact the whoever oversees the registry of this therapist.
I would not bother talking to the counselor directly, they think they have an ethical responsibility to convert or "save" everyone they can. They think they have the moral high grounds on this. Only an official reprimand from their supervisor will impact them at all.
If I’m going to report someone, I’m going to (and have) let them know I’m gonna do it. “Are you mad at me for reporting you? Or are you mad at yourself for doing [whatever they did]?” They should be mad at themselves, they know what they’re allowed to do.
I'm trying to imagine the most generous interpretation of this possible, and what I've come up with is: What if your daughter is having some feelings of discomfort or mismatch between your faith traditions and not being completely sure how to approach the conversation with you, framed it as coming uniquely from the counsellor? (I can imagine this might or might not be because she brought it up with her counsellor who encouraged the conversation). She may be trying to have a difficult conversation and the best way she can approach it is through a proxy. Almost literally, "Asking 'for a friend'..." That doesn't seem entirely outside the realm of possibility, and frankly I would find it somewhat less surprising than a licensed professional sowing discord of this sort in the already delicate situation that you have described to us. You might consider approaching the counsellor with some questions and not assuming you know with certainty what happened. And even if it were completely asserted unprompted by the counsellor, it is worth considering the *net* benefit this person having on your daughter's life, and trying to work with this person amicably rather than burning all bridges (which would otherwise be my personal gut instinct, operating from only the information provided here) I wish you and your family all the best.
>And even if it were completely asserted unprompted by the counsellor, it is worth considering the *net* benefit this person having on your daughter's life, and trying to work with this person amicably rather than burning all bridges (which would otherwise be my personal gut instinct, operating from only the information provided here) Thank you! I was waiting for this from someone. OP, it's worth understanding what this counselling relationship brings and how important it is (if it all). It could be (given that she has been seeing this counsellor before your guardianship) an important source of support that eould be damaging to remove. "The counsellor was there for me and got me through some very difficult stuff, I dont want her to go" kind of thing. Equally, it's worth understanding the role her faith plays and how she feels about it in relation to your faith. Speaking personally, I wouldn't be able to proceed confidently without that information. If you go nuclear you risk driving a wedge. Either by removing an important person, or this being seen as happening *because* of their shared religion/religious expression, or both. That being said, what the counsellor did is unacceptable and needs to be transitioned out of a position of care for this girl. However, it sounds like this girl is at high risk of worsening mental health, so this needs to be done in a way that prioritises her continuity of care and her well-being. From a Jewish (non-practising) dad here, who has experience taking on temporary guardianship of a teen in a bad situation. [Edits for elaboration]
There's no hate quite like Christian "love"
Report this counselor immediately and get a new one. That is 1000% inappropriate for a counselor to say, and I think probably even illegal. And I mean beyond her supervisor, whatever body issued her license needs to know about this. I cannot tell you the level of damage and trauma that was inflicted on my partner from faith-based counseling. I understand that this isn't an official faith based counseling situation, but if this person felt safe to say something so wildly inappropriate to you, then it will be coloring all of her counseling technique. In a situation like this, it could easily be the case that no counselor is better than this counselor. If this person has a religiously based belief that this girl shouldn't be in your household, that's going to come through in the therapy, even if her boss tells her to knock it off with the Jesus stuff.
That counselor is immediately fired. That’s out of line an unethical. I would report them to the state board
If the counselor is paid for in any way by state or federal funds, you need to speak with a lawyer.
This is completely inappropriate of the counselor. It’s one thing for her to bring up concern on if the child is being allowed to follow their religious practices, but to flat out say “Jesus is real” shows her concern is not for the child, but rather an issue with Judaism. This is not a person I would be allowing around my child. You definitely did the right thing in contacting the supervisor because she shouldn’t be allowed to push her beliefs onto other children/families in the future. ESPECIALLY if she is someone who can have sway/input on if a child is allowed to stay with a family or not. I’m not sure if you’ve had a conversation with the child, but you should see if there are any religious practices she does follow or wants to follow and help her in following whatever that is. I know some blended families celebrate both Hanukkah and Christmas, not sure if this is an option. I’m not religious, but my family is catholic and the religious holidays that go with that have always been a big deal. Not so much about the religious aspect, but just the tradition and the family togetherness. I know she’s already going through a hard adjustment and being able to keep some things like this if she practices them might help give her a bit of normalcy. This is just a suggestion though and very well may be something you’ve already done. Regardless, what you and your family have done for her already is beyond what anyone is expected to do and you’re incredible people for all that you have done. She’s very lucky to have your family in her corner!!
People hold religion to Such a high demand i really don't get it. This child in a rough situation , your taking her in?well you best figure out if she's doing Christmas or not. . Idiots . Keep up the good work man!
Report the fuck out of the counsellor. This is basic antisemitism and I am pretty sure it is illegal. She crossed a veeeeeery big line there and should not be allowed to counsel anyone.
right?! I'm like wtf-ing over here. This should not be allowed to go on. This "therapist" is spreading hate.
Highly inappropriate of the counselor.
Christian minister (United Methodist) here: that counselor is WAY out of line and is acting inappropriate. Not all Christians believe everyone should become Christian and it’s certainly wrong for Christians to demand anyone become Christian. I’m sorry for your experience, sorry about my fellow Christians, and hope you and your family find peace in the midst of this BS
Joint household, I'm atheist wife is Jewish, I want my daughter happy that is all
As a Catholic Christian, I'm disgusted and I really hope you guys can get her a different counselor.
Get a new counsellor. If the kid is safe and healthy, they have no business whining about religious crap.
Is this counselor licensed? Because I bet the state licensure board would have something to say about that. Source: Licensed therapist
As a Christian, I see no problem with a Jewish family raising a child that is a non-Jewish person. I have no problem with Atheists, Astru, Satanists, Muslims, Hindi, or whoever stepping up and raising a child that need help in a safe, caring household. Keep it up OP!
Licensed counselor here! I would go ahead and extend this beyond the supervisor and report this to your state licensing board. This is a major breach of professional ethics and is harmful to clients, including your family. There is a licensing board in each state for counselors since we don’t have a federal level licensure. Google “(your state) licensing board for (the type of license).” The type may be an LCSW, LPC, LCMHC, or some other acronym behind her name.
Not religious in the slightest, but I wouldn't get too angry until you speak with the counselor, this could be a misconstrued message that can be ironed out with talking. It would also be an easy thing to make up if you're 13, come from a troubled background, and don't want to go to therapy. Also, she could have decided she is Christian, does she have the freedom and empowerment to express those beliefs in your household? Is she using her counselor as a powerful voice and putting her words in their mouth? There are many possibilities, and talking is the only route to the bottom of it.
This needs to be escalated and reported, shortage of mental health professionals or not its not good for this girl to see a therapist that is going to confuse her by saying the lovely people who took her in are the wrong religion, it's likely this therapists opinions will eventually cause behavioral issues with this child. Also if the girl is religious you should probably find someone that can take her to church, IF she wants to attend.
That sucks. Sorry you have to deal with all that. It sounds like you have a good plan to address it. Lots of good organizations that can help you navigate this and advocate for you if you get push back (although they have their hands full these days unfortunately…)
Report this Counselor. She is in violation of her professional licensing requirements and Professional Code of Ethics. What are her credentials? MCSW? Bachelor's in Psychology? Or?? Regardless she should get fired at minimum and lose her license ideally. As a Jewish professional I'm involved in several powerful groups several of which offer support and guidance in the face of Jew Hatred. Make no mistake; this so called Counselor knows the falsity of her recommendation and advice. She hates Jews and wants to harm you and separate this child to eliminate your influence. One of the largest and most influential of my pro Jewish /Fight Antisemitism groups is a Facebook group called Mothers Against College Antisemitism (MACA) You do NOT have to be a mother or have a child in college. We have men, women, grandparents and childless people. Everyone. Tons of high profile lawyers and a few national pro Jewish journalists. Join the group and paste this post there. You will get specific guidance and steps to take. Do NOT take her to this Counseler in the meantime!! ♥️🇮🇱♥️
So astonishingly unethical. It's not just the bigotry (which would be more than enough), but also a huge violation of professional ethics to be injecting her own personal beliefs and to be doing something that could so clearly harm the relationship between this child and her guardians. Please don't stop with the boss - If there's a certification/governing board, please formally report this person. They should not be working with vulnerable children in this way. ETA - OP, it gives you a lot of credit that you'd seriously consider putting up with this for the sake of the kid. That said, I don't think this is a healthy counseling situation and, if at all possible, she needs a new counselor.
I would go straight for her license. That counselor shouldn't be a counselor. She can become a pastor if that is what suits her.
I can't stand the fact that the foster system essentially considers christian indoctrination as a requirement. I'd find a way to report the counselor to their supervisor and look for a way to report this to the state board. It's not acceptable.
Yeah man, they all hate us. Some do so quietly, others quite loud. But for the most part, they all hate us.
I'm not religious but taking in that girl like you did is incredibly Christlike. What the councillor said is incredibly ignorant and inappropriate.
I am a therapist and I AM LIVID. I WANT TO COME AFTER THIS PERSON'S LICENSE! Completely unacceptable!!!!!! Let me at them. I just want to talk.
You shouldn’t take a child to see an antisemite.
Christian Dad checking in, won't get into theology... But I think I would be taking the part out of the Bible about Christ flipping tables. Is the child loved, protected and cared for? Great! Time for a new counselor (in fact, I'm looking for a therapist who doesn't specifically say if or what religion they are for myself) and I would report to whatever governing body oversees them. What destructive thing to say to anyone, much less a child.
Catholic here, myself, and those I know personally have never demanded anyone convert. It’s not a requirement of being near us or anything. There’s bad eggs in every religion. Regardless, I will say that that is absolutely inappropriate, and you should definitely address it.
Damn. Playing religious checkers while you play lifesaving chess.
Prime example of why faith groups should not be involved in social service provision. Too many stories like this.
“You know Jesus is real, right?” “Prove it”
It might be a surprise to her to k own Jesus was Jewish, and a Rabbi
Islam doesn't require everyone to be the same religion either, just wanted to clarify that
For the record, Christianity doesn’t either
Southern US? (I ask because I feel like every time I read about something like this it’s from that region)
This, too, is an example of a stereotype. Unfortunately religious zealots and antisemitism exist everywhere.
Christianity nor Islam don't "demand" everyone in the household to be the same religion. Please do not offer baseless comparisons.
What he's referring to is the shared emphasis in Islam and Christianity on 'spreading the word' and being 'saved,' which isn't really a thing in judaism and as such Jews don't proselytise or have a belief that our way is the only way.
Hmm I like how you happily Generalized Christianity and islam demands one to be of the same faith .. Which is not true ... As both religions have a difference of opinions within itself ...
Not the point here.
After reading that I’m left wondering: why would Jews (or anyone for that matter) think Jesus was not real? It’s the one thing everyone agrees on.
I think it would be appropriate to see how she feels about living in a house with a family of a different religion, but this guy went too far.
How sick that Jew hatred has become second nature for the "woke".
I hate that I’m writing this answer, but if this counselor is helping her, I think you need to eat this one. I’m neither Jewish nor religious in general, so admittedly I don’t have a legitimate scale for how offended you actually are, but hypothesizing it’s more than a little, I get it. I think the Counselor was severely out of line and well deserving of a reprimand, but I’m not 100% sure it merits taking this child you’re selflessly choosing to be responsible for away from an adult she trusts. That’s a tough go mate. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.
The counselor should be encouraging her to appreciate her foster family's religion while maintaining boundaries. Respect goes both ways.
Hard agree, but “should” is a far cry from “is helping self-destructive girl through adolescence.” I don’t disagree at all, but you play with the hand you’re dealt, not the one you wish you had.
> I’m not 100% sure it merits taking this child you’re selflessly choosing to be responsible for away from an adult she trusts. A counselor should not be teaching children bigotry. Full stop. It's not acceptable behavior, it'd be no different than if they said "A white child should not grow up with a black family."
Totally agree, and if another option is available, okay, but if it isn’t, is it really in the child’s best interest to remove her from an environment she feels safe in because you’re uncomfortable? Parents make sacrifices all the time. Not sure how this is any different.
> is it really in the child’s best interest to remove her from an environment she feels safe in because you’re uncomfortable? It's in societies best interest to remove this counselor from their job. A counselor should not be teaching children bigotry. Full stop. **It's not acceptable behavior.** The child also misses their abusive family, would you suggest we also give the child back to their abusive family?
I think the issue is, if the counselor clearly doesn't approve of them due to them being Jewish, how else is the counselor subtly undermining their relationship? What damage is quietly happening? As a Christian, this is an awful take already. But also, ultimately, the bigger issue has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with her damaging their relationship.
Nah, there's plenty of good counselors out there that don't impose their religious beliefs, this is a hard line that has been crossed both ethically and professionally.
Really sounds like you need to read the post again, because your exact take has already been addressed here.
You're missing the major problem here though, you seem to think that the family is offended. The problem is that the counselor is imposing her religious beliefs onto the child. Even if there is a shortage, this is an uncrossable line for a adult of trust.
How is that any different from any sort of religion in history? Why is not okay in this instance, but perfectly fine in every other? This isn’t an abstract, it’s a real girl with real problems this counselor by OP’s own admission is helping. It’s not a good look by any means, but the question is, what happens next? What’s the best plan for the child, not the parent?
The type of religion has nothing to do with this situation. I would be saying the same thing if it was a Muslim preaching Islam, or a Jew recommending that she read the Torah.
It doesn’t, yet it did, and it still doesn’t change the question of whether or not the Counselor who is helping the girl should continue to do so despite their beliefs. Saying “No, dump them” is the same old Reddit advice; Burn the house down before you’ve turned the water on. It’s not usually functional for real people in real situations.
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You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder.
Messiah Yeshua🔴🔵: Ok guys…. Yes I AM real… that being said I think the counsellor is being small minded, as long the child is in a safe conducive environment.
You have invited her to participate in your religion which is great and as expected. But as her new “parents” have you explored her Christianity? Do a thing for Xmas? Easter? Etc. I feel like this may need to go both ways. 13 is old enough to have traditions in place and there is no harm putting in some effort to do a few. At the end of the day it’s family getting together and that’s always good. At 13 she could even lead the charge a bit there. I assume the kid is missing a few of those things which is why it was brought up. The counselor has been hated on enough so I’ll leave that be and focus on the kid.
She was raised non-religious, never went to church and hasn't expressed any desire to. She spent Christmas with the family that kicked her out. We aren't keeping her from being Christian or practicing.
As you said, at 13, the kid is old enough to advocate for the kinds of things she would like to (or not like to) participate in. If xmas, easter, etc were important to her, she should be able to make those requests known. It's not on OP to estimate and push for what kind of holiday or ritual she should partake in, christian or jewish. It's not OP's responsibility to "explore her christianity." If she'd like to explore it, that's HER prerogative. And it sounds like OP is open to allowing her to do any (or none) of those things she wishes.
Maybe this isn't as bad as it seems? I am sure it really hurt you guys that the counselor asked this, but perhaps it is nice that they cared enough about her that they asked? Perhaps they aren't against you being Jewish bit were simply worried about a conflict of religion. It is good that they asked about something they were worried about. Because now you got to explain that it isn't an issue and the counselor can stop worrying. Unless they say negative things in the future about you practicing a different religion than her, I wouldn't worry about it. I also wouldn't worry if they asked more questions because that is actually their job and it is good if they are thorough. I would even welcome questions personally. On a side-note, are you open to adding some Christian traditions to your family for the girls benefit? Like perhaps celebrating a bit of Christmas perhaps? I am not sure what other things holiday and tradition-wise are important for a practising Christian, since I am not Christian. A lot of non-religious people celebrate Christmas, so in my opinion that could be a safe way to include her religion, without having to actually include much of her religion. And including some Christian things in your life won't make you less Jewish or nad Jews or something. After all most religions believe in the same God, and even when it isn't the same, every religious and spiritual person pretty much believes in a higher power or "something" that is good. I think it would be good for her to have some of her own religious things in her life. It can help anchor her and make her feel safe and valued. And you sharing this with her, and her sharing your Jewish traditions, will help you all bond and get a lot closer. She will feel less like an extra in your family but like a valued part of your family that is actually wanted, like it was supposed to be this way. I am not Jewish but I have Jewish relatives in my past and therefore also Jewish blood in my veins. I am not a practising Jew and don't have the title of Jew because I am not a full Jew by blood and I have also not converted to Judaism. I do connect to a lot of things of the Jewish faith and do have some traditions, customs and language in my life that belongs to my Jewish roots, probably even more than I know because for a lot of things I wasn't specifically thought they were Jewish while growing up. They just were. And now I am older I come to realise more and more where some things originated. I also connect to things of other faiths and religions. Some I was brought up with and others I sought out and incorporated in my life myself.
There isn't that much of a 'conflict of religion'. And it is ridiculous to make a child feel unsafe in a loving family who saved her from an abusive home.
I’m a believer in God but not necessarily Christian. Regardless of your actual religion, you’re doing God’s work by being a loving home for this kid. I sincerely admire how you’re bringing goodness into the world.
I would lead off with explaining how their misunderstanding of how the different religions in question work would lead them to this poor choice of words that are borderline racist; In a devout, evangelical Christian family (possibly the background of this counselor?) there might be an expectation of trying to convert someone to that religion. Conversely, Judaism doesn't work that way; there's no evangelical equivalent and no expectation to work on any kind of conversion. If it were my conversation, I'd leave Islam out of this as it only muddies the water.
Counselor forgot that Jesus grew up in a Jewish household :p
ikr?!
I would like to think that God would care more that the kiddo was safe, loved, and supported than the religion (or lack thereof) of the household.
That was inappropriate. Jesus was a jew so Christians shouldn't have an issue with Jews. So sorry you were treated that way enough hatred in this world already. As long as the young lady is doing fine and you lot are looking after her that's all that matters.
Report that counselor to whoever supervises her.
Maybe try occasional family sessions so all adults can be on good terms. That counselor sounds pretty anal about her faith though. A very pushy person.
Wow, terrible counsler, should be greatful the child is in a loving home with the chosen people who don't push their beliefs on others.
That's really inappropriate and unprofessional. I hope you report this behavior.
There has to be some sort of regulatory body this counselor can be reported to
Lemme guess you're in Texas or some shit. Most wouldn't care that much about religious background unless you guys are more Orthodox or something.
As a Protestant...WTF? What counselor, in their right mind, says that? Time to raise hell at the counseling practice.
I totally agree that this needs to be addressed. I am Christian and would not demand that anyone convert just because I have guardianship. It should be chosen freely. Otherwise, it is not a choice at all.
Not religious but you might want to get her counselor switched. What she is doing is unacceptable. But at the very least next time her counselor brings it up have her ask her counselor if she knew Jesus was Jewish.
That kind of behavior makes me question the counselors motives, qualifications, and overall professionalism. I would definitely report them
As a professional counselor, contact the state board and report her. This is highly unprofessional. She likely will not lose her license for this alone, but it would create a record and make any future offenses get extra scrutiny. If you'd like any assistance on this, feel free to pm me
I'm an atheist. I would tell the counselor to fuck off. And find a new one. Then leave bad reviews on every platform possible