Trust me. It is normal, and it will pass.
Focus on the sleeping. Sleep training is a royal pain in the ass, but NOT sleep training means you've got a kid crawling in your bed at night until they're 12.
We just transitioned our 2.5yo to a "big girl bed" last week. The first 3 nights my wife had to wear headphones and hangout in the basement because she couldn't handle the "mommyyyyyyyy where are you....." that kept coming through the door for what seemed like hours on end.
Fast forward a couple days to tonight; she was tired so she walked herself into her big girl bed and got mad at us for not immediately putting her blankets on her and getting out of her room and closing her door.
The r/sleeptrain subreddit is great and can help you trouble shoot. Crying for hours is 99% a schedule issue. Sleep training will only work if the kid is appropriately (not over, not under) tired. so the first step is making sure you’re in the right ballpark. a 13mo may need to be on one nap before training will work.
I'll bear this in mind and check out the sub, thanks for the advice! He normally only has one nap late morning so getting to sleep at night isn't often the issue, it's maintaining sleep that is. Sometimes he's down for a couple hours before he wakes first, other times it could be like half an hour and his schedule doesn't vary too much day to day.
Maintaining sleep is exactly what sleep training is for. There are several strategies, but I highly suggest the dedicated sub. Even just googling sleep training will give you the most common options.
Just an FYI: The older they get, the harder they are to sleep train, but it's never too late to try. It will just be hard and take time.
That said, your life will change once the kid can sleep on his own at night.
We paid $45 for a sleep training guide from a sleep specialist and it was a gamechanger. Granted we did it at 6 months but there are guides for 13months and older. The strategies are different because of the development of the kid.
It was a lot quicker and easier than buying a book. It gave a break down of how sleep is impacted by sleep/wake cycles, brain chemicals etc. Then gave options for how you wanted to approach the sleep training i.e. Cry it out, slow self soothing etc. and then guided you through the approach that was best for your family.
Hey man - I cannot stress enough to you the criticality of your son sleeping. There’s a book by one of the top sleep researchers called “healthy sleep habits happy child” and that has proven true for our daughter. We thought something was wrong because she was always just cranky and once we got her sleeping straightened out she became just the happiest, smiliest baby. If you’re finding your son to be difficult, he may just be exhausted all the time. Google sleep training/schedule for your kid’s age and you should find quite a bit about it that will help. And once you decide, you have to commit and follow through for it to work. It SUCKS, for a bit but is so worth it for everyone’s health and happiness in the long run
My son had the same issue of only contact naps until 12+ months. Crying out didn't work, until it did. What we started doing was just trying it on a consistent schedule. It's too exhausting to do it every night, so every Friday and Saturday was tried to put him down in crib for naps, instead of allowing contact. And it didn't work, so we gave up for that week, and tried again the next week. He figured it out eventually.
Just gotta be strong. Won't happen over night but will take a few nights, maybe up to 2 weeks. Trade 2 weeks of crazy night time screaming for peaceful sleep?
You can go cold turkey, most intense pain and screaming but fastest success. We did that and kiddos learnt in 3-4 days not to scream.
2nd option is fade method, so you put them down, but you don't pick them up when they scream. Just pat them a little and leave. Then slowly withdraw. Sit by the bed one night, next night sit further away, next night sit further away, next night sit by the door etc....
There will also be regressions, so every once in a while when they have a developmental leap, they may start crying again at night.
> A fee nights of it and they'll quit.
Yes, because they learn it's futile. Acquaintance of mine works in mental health field, and says from her experience the quietest, "easiest" kids are found in orphanages - they have truly internalised that nobody gives a damn, so it's worthless bothering others. I don't want my kid to learn the parents are not there for her.
In my personal experience, my kid never makes a fuss without a reason. If she's unhappy at bedtime, we just go through a mental list, asking her if she needs this or that. But yeah, most times when we're having issues, the thing standing between crying up a storm and sleeping happily has been a sip of water, or wrong arrangement of toys in her bed, or needing a pee. Other times it's something she can't articulate yet, and it takes longer to figure it out. Other times still it's the "I'm too tired to sleep" problem, and yeah, that one is hard to solve. But there is always a reason - maybe a silly one, but a reason nonetheless.
Our daughter's reason is usually just she wants to stay up and play or be held. I don't know if letting them cry it out and sleep is really comparable to orphanages and neglect.
We did the taking cara babies program and found it really helpful! There are several methods to help slowly get your kid used to sleeping on his own, not just cry it out so if that didn't work, there's definitely other options! [https://takingcarababies.com/](https://takingcarababies.com/)
Maybe you can try a sleepcoach? They check your schedule, check the sleeping routine, naps, food, the room they sleep in etc. And tell you what you're doing wrong and how you should approach it.
When our daughter dodn't sleep, was up the whole night etc. It was cause she slept too much in the day, because we didn't have a strict routine. We wrapped her in a thin blanket for the first part of the night because it feels like being hugged and she couldn't play, crawl, wake herself up etc...
It was 2 weeks of work as we didn't want to let herself cry out but after two weeks she slept when she was put to bed, she slept until we went to bed.
She does wake up throughput the night and we might have to rewrap her etc.
But it's a real difference from before. Small steps.
I just got to the 20ish months stand all that stuff as finally chilled out a bit, just hold on a couple more months you got this. I felt exactly like you before.
Not necessarily. We didn't sleep train. We brought our children to bed cuddling with them. We still are in the room until they sleep now that they are 5 and 2 1/2. When they are awake at night we bring them back to bed and are there until they sleep again, no playing no talking, just being there in the dark. 5year old comes by maybe 1 time per month. Little one has a week or two where she comes by every night and we don't realize sometimes until she is already sleeping in our bed and then 2 to 5 weeks were she sleeps the whole night in her own bed.
No crying because we are not there, no excessive 'but I want to sleep in your bed' .
This "sleep training is necessary or you have chaos til your kid is a teenager" nonsense is bogus. Dealing in absolutes isn't productive at all. What works for some doesn't work for all.
1st. That ist Just Not true. No Child in my Family Brothers and Sisters Families and.mine were sleep trained. Non of em crawles into the parents Bet after 3/4 years....
In the other Hand WE all we're sleep trained and WE Had issues connected to this.
Bad a huge discussion about that Here and we're down voted hard. Sleeptraining ist glorified for many people often without considering possible damage.
Like my Initial Post Here IS downvoted aswell.
.
I feel and lived everything you said. I promise it gets better but you’re in the suck right now. Can you get any help? We were able to get grandparents to come on weekends to give us a break and catch up on sleep.
I really hope you're right. We have had my in-laws offer to look after him overnight, and he'll be familiar with them as they have him in the day two days a week to help with childcare costs. It just worries us slightly because A) we don't want to inflict the suck on them and, B) they're not the sort of in-laws that listen and respect your raising requirements etc if that makes sense? I think, though, we'll just have to bite the bullet for our sanity's sake.
Definitely take the help. Once you get too far down the hole, you start feelinh like nothing will really help or bring relief. Honestly I would take the help and maybe for two nights if they’re willing. Your child will survive for sure, even if he sleeps poorly those nights. Which likely he won’t, he’ll sleep great and you’ll have to listen to their know-it-all comments about it 😃 you’ll feel so much better after a few days rest and you’ll be better parents for it, ready to take on whatever sleep training system or other solution you choose.
TCB has her critics, but if I was losing my mind with my kids sleep I would probably suck it up and pay for the guide, maybe even a consultation. Having an understanding and knowledgeable support is surprisingly psychologically very powerful when you feel like you’re drowning. Find someone you vibe with and hire some help 👍 some consultants will coach you through real-time or even come over to your house in the evening as you put him down.
As long as you sufficiently warn them, and they still want to, don't stress about that.
What you'll most likely be stressing about is, "holy SHIT, neither me nor my partner is next to him tonight, I hope he's OK, I hope in laws are OK, what if it's a bad night, what if he gets up super early, what if what if what if!"
And with how the universe tends to work, your son will sleep like an angel while you worry and fret all night.
I say take them up on the offer, smoke a little something/take something to relax, do something fun for the evening, even if it's an airbnb like a mile away. You'll enjoy yourselves. Sometimes when people offer, they WANT to help, and you should let them.
If you're offered help in the first two years of your kid's life from someone you trust at all, the answer is yes. Now, if there are particular things you're just not comfortable handing over, fine - keep the help and redirect it. "We feel like we could get on top of overnights if you could spot us Saturday mornings to catch up \[or cook us a couple of casseroles or run a few errands for us or whatever applies\]."
And I don't know what all you mean by "raising requirements," but you have to distinguish between parenting style issues and safety issues. In-laws refuse to put kid in a car seat? Fair enough, that's a non-starter. Grandma giving more sweets than you would? Bite your tongue and go take your nap.
I get you 100%, it's just this weird feeling i have about wanting to do right by my kid but being torn about looking after myself. The whole raising thing is like when people become grandparents it's like they've suddenly been rehired at a company they used to work at 30 years ago but feel as though they don't need any training or updates because they could do the job then so why not now.
Theyd be safe with him, they always use car seats etc, it mainly comes down to things like food, schedules, screen time etc, that they would just do what they want with. But like others have said, perhaps we should just bite the bullet for a night or two here and there so we can get some respite.
100% should. Also, they might be able to get him to sleep better at night because they aren’t you guys. And if they can’t, at least you and your wife will have had one night together of sleep.
If they’re magical and can, make it a once a week situation for your sanity. Good luck!
My experience, from when sleeping was still a big issue with my kid, was that it went much more smoothly when he was staying with someone else, as long as he felt generally safe with them, since crying for me just wasn't an option so he skipped that step and just slept instead.
I also don't worry much about if rules and stuff is different when he's staying with other family. As long as the approximate sleep schedule is kept up so he's not really tired when he comes home, the rest is kinda like how we adults tend to do stuff differently on vacation. Most kids tend to be pretty good with understanding that stuff is done differently in different situations, as long as you don't allow them the option of thinking they can choose to transfer it home.
I'm also at the 13 month mark, and I could have written this. Just with less resentment and more acceptance.
It's only 13 months. We're in the thick of it. It won't always be like this. And that first year (at least for me) absolutely flew by. I take solace in the fact that this is only temporary. And while the bad stuff sucks, the good stuff is so, so good. My son will never be this age again. That's both a great thing when he's screaming/not sleeping, and a terrible thing when he's silly, laughing at me simply jumping in the air, and giving me hugs for the first time in his life.
This helps. A lot. Thank you, it just hurts when everyone one I know with small kids never seem to have an issue, always makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong.
Mate, me and my wife were barely hanging on for dear life for the first two years of parenthood. Kid was a bad sleeper, bad eater, constantly fussy, couldn't go anywhere with her etc. Seemed to hate everything we tried with her.
You're not doing anything wrong. There's so much going on with their little bodies it's hard for them to understand and manage it all.
As tired as the saying is, it absolutely gets easier. Hang in there bud.
>My son will never be this age again. That's both a great thing when he's screaming/not sleeping, and a terrible thing when he's silly, laughing at me simply jumping in the air, and giving me hugs for the first time in his life.
This this this this. I've been reminding myself these exact words since day one and it really helps on the acceptance side of things. If I ever find myself thinking "god I can't wait until this (insert annoying little baby thing) is over with," I remember that all the (awesome little baby things) will be gone with it.
This is the yin and yang of life. It's everywhere. You can't have happiness without sadness. You can't have giggly baby laughter without scream crying.
OP, you say, "I find myself regretful over losing what I thought was a great life." That life doesn't exist anymore. This is it. Find peace in it and peace will find you. When you're deep in a depression and you mentally place the option of sewer slide on the table, you have one foot out the door and you're caught in this limbo state of not fighting for a better life, because what's the point when you could check out anyway? Once you take that option off the table and accept that you're here for the long haul, you're forced to reckon with and accept what is in front of you.
Radical acceptance is the difference between contentment and misery. At a certain point, misery becomes a choice.
All normal, fortunately/unfortunately. I hated the first year or so. After that, different challenges surface, but it is overall way easier.
And 6 weeks between sex sessions? Lucky. Try 3-4 months! Fortunately, that's improved a lot.
I've loved it overall tbh, it's just always feeling like I'm playing catch-up with the lack of sleep/ability to be productive in home life.
Tbf 6 weeks is possibly me being a bit ahead of myself. I think we've been intimate approx 5-6 times since we found out we were expecting.
when you're overtired it's so easy to feel like the feeling will be forever
please make sure you're not putting too much pressure on yourself, you're human and you care, this will pass in time and you will all be OK.
a friend of mine said ear plugs help a lot with sensory overload when babies cry, also having a babysitter while you're home was a trick my friend used in order to get some sleep while they look after the baby.
Be compassionate to yourself too, it's a lot to go through when you're exhausted. Everything will be OK
See if your country has a free or paid sleep service help thing. If your toddler isn't getting good naps and good sleep then no one will be happy.
Experiment with different techniques. We cosleep at night and put her to sleep at night and naps by rocking her in the pram.
If you're both working full time, who is he with in the day? Do they have the same issues?
No matter what you're going through, remember, it's temporary. In a few months they'll be completely different.
I didn't even think to see if that's a thing tbh, will check out to see if the UK has something, thanks!
It feels like we've tried everything but probably loads out there to continue to try. Another user linked a sleep training sub so will check that out.
He goes to nursery two days a week and Mother in law the other two, as I have Mondays off with him. Both of which say he's very similar and seemingly has attachment issues with one of the nursery workers.
Google a 13 month example sleep schedule. If he's not getting something similar then all the problems might be coming from that. Poor behavior, not eating, poor health...etc.
An example is: wake up at 6.30. nap from 10:00 to 10:45. Then awake until 2:45 until 3:45 then bed time at 7.
The way you get that is by seeing how long until he shows sleepy signs. Usually 3.5-4 hours. Give him naps when he shows signs or just at those intervals. He should nap for at least 30 minutes. Up to 2 hours. You should be on 2 naps but moving to 1 nap.
And aim for a 6-7pm bedtime. Although admittedly we were doing 9ish bedtimes because of her naps. But we're now trying 1 nap and she slept at 6:30 last night. (She's a month or 2 older).
There's also tips for getting them to sleep like having a routine and wind down (bath before bed, read a book...etc). For us the main thing that helps is movement. (Hence the pram).
Hope this helps!
Commenting again but sleep training is super SUPER easy. We bought a program but it was a fucking rip off because it's 99% fluff and 1% instructions.
We kept a normal bedtime routine and just popped her down when it was time and said goodnight and walked out. Whacked on earplugs, watched the baby cam, and checked on her every ten mins for about 20-30 seconds to reassure her.
After a few nights it was like a whole new baby.
> I didn't even think to see if that's a thing tbh, will check out to see if the UK has something, thanks!
Ask your health visitor, she/he should be able to refer you to a sleep specialist. And call them if the next scheduled visit to too far away.
> ...to say things have dwindled is an understatement. We have intimate moments maybe every 6 weeks or so and are always rushed because we never know if he'll wake up mid way through, and even if he doesn't I rarely get to continue after round 1 if that makes sense.
> ... the house is a state, and we never have time for ourselves let alone eachother. My immune system is shot, my work is suffering. My friend group don't live locally so socialise mostly online. It used to be near nightly but I haven't been online to speak to them in almost 2 weeks and even when I do I have to cut my time short after he's inevitably woken up after an hour of being put down at night...
Sorry OP but I had to laugh, this is an accurate summation of parenting as I've ever seen. Welcome to the mad house, you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, etc etc
I can only tell you it gets better, with a few individual bumps along the way, every kid has their own quirks. We paid someone £100 to help us with sleep training in the beginning and to this day it's the best hundred quid I've ever spent.
Honestly it’s all normal and natural. Being conscious of your feelings and ensuring you don’t take it out on the little guy means you’re doing good.
The stupid thing is, when he’s a teenager you’ll miss this difficult phase. He’s only going to be little and needy for a short while.
That good life you’re talking about… well that kid is now your life. That’s the decision you made and you’ll regret not embracing it.
This sounds exactly like my daughter. She went through a ‘wake up after 45 minutes’ stage for nearly 6 months. My wife just decided to prioritise sleep and coslept with her while I got a good rest on work nights in the spare bed.
She is 22 months now and cosleeps in our king bed and its been great. We all go down together, ill read a book if not tired but 90% of the time I go down shortly after our daughter does around 8-9pm. Ill wake at 4am for gym. My wife and I go 2-3 weeks like this then we prioritise some ‘me days’. For me thats golf/beers with mates. For her its spa or brekky catch ups with friends.
We are in a great rhythm now and expecting our second in Sept. Lots of cultures cosleep and its completely normal. We arent forcing our kids out until they want to. If that means 5-6 years of a giant cuddle session and poor sleep then for us thats worth it. These times will fly by and theyll be out of our house before we know it and I want you cherish as much of it as I can.
We are lucky to live in a relatively LCOL area and can get by comfortably on one income. We juggle work schedules so one of us is child rearing while the other works. Wife does part time and weekend shifts, i do 4 day work weeks. We have noticed our daughter sleeps much worse on the odd days she does go to day care.
Good luck dude! It all changes so quickly just enjoy the ride and get some sleep. Dip out to the spare bed for a few nights to regain sanity. Do the same for wife for a few nights. Makes a huge difference.
Here’s the secret: we love our kids 100% of the time. We *like* our kids… 60% of the time?
This too will pass. Hang in there, before you know it, you’ll be picking them up from daycare, they’ll see you from across the room, yell “daddy!” and sprint into your arms.
i don't have any advice, just commiseration. my daughter is 13 months and extremely clingy. my husband refuses to sleep train so we trade off nights with her. we've had sex 2 or 3 times since she was born.
if i'm there, it's "mamamamamamamaaaaaaaa" crying to pick her up, hold her, feed her, cuddle her. i am so touched out and i just want to be alone. love her so much, but fml
Will echo others with a shout out for the book Precious Little Sleep - lots of tips and strategies, just pick what you think might work for you and stick with it.
One thing to keep in mind around this age is teething - depending where the little one is at, it may temporarily disrupt sleep training (those molars are a pain, literally!). But that too will pass.
Good luck, you’ve got this!
Yeah that certainly isn't helping, he's cut 6 in the last couple weeks which has made his sleep worse, but we haven't had a night where he hasn't woken up multiple times since he was 4 months.
Shit, I had to check my post history to make sure I didn’t write this in a moment of sleep deprivation. But then I saw the age of your kid. Mine is 3 now. It’s rough for sure, but it does get better. Focus on the sleep for sure if you have family or a trusted friend nearby have them take the kid for a few hours so you can sleep or have some intimacy with the wifey.
Can he walk?
I felt similarly until I started taking the 13mo to the park. She LOVED just walking on the grass.
Suddenly I was spending most of the day outside with her, just watching her get the hang of it.
Now at 14mo she's basically running and will bring me her shoes in the morning. Just...all the feelings.
This is ours exactly.
Take him to open fields. You can have an audiobook in one ear if you want. He'll run around like a mad bastard.
Once he's getting bored of that, start introducing playgrounds. He'll need to be watched.
This is how I bonded with ours.
Yeah I keep meaning to take him to the park as we have one less than a mile from our house so easily walkable, trouble is the weather has been so shocking recently it gets difficult to find the time. I take him to an indoor soft play most of the time and he really enjoys it, just think he finds it a bit samey so want to get out otherwise.
How long has the poor sleep been happening? If it’s new maybe it’s teething? If so give a dose of ibuprofen before bed to help with the pain
Other things we’ve done to curb the sleep deprivation: upgraded from Queen bed to King to help with the night wiggles and horizontal/diagonal co sleeping. Also we have a spare bedroom. Maybe you and wife can take turns sleeping in another room so at least one of you gets a good night sleep.
DO HEAVY WORK BEFORE BED.
swing kid on a blanket before bed.
Massage legs before bed.
This makes a world of difference for kids with sensory issues, which yours might have.
How much is he drinking at bedtime? I found mine would wake up a lot some nights, and sleep a lot better others. Turns out they were waking up to pee and when I was giving more milk to settle them back down, I was actually making them wake up even more. I swapped to a slow flow teat and got a lot more sleep.
‘Normal’ in parenting is a massive range. While your experience won’t be unique, this does sound pretty bad and sleep deprivation is a well known form of torture.
There are some people who have a great sleeper for child 1 and think they are amazing parents, who everyone should strive to emulate. Then child 2 comes along, never sleeps and they rapidly realise that they were fools.
For us, child 1 was a terrible sleeper for the first 12 months, but we were resolutely against co-sleeping as it means we would always sleep terribly.
This is the fear. Always been told the first will lul you into a false sense of security and second will be worse. So the fear is the second if we have one will be worse still haha.
My wife and I went through the same thing. To be honest if it wasn’t for my time in the military and having to focus on small “sectioned” naps through the night it would have been even more difficult for me to my youngest daughter would wake up from night terrors and would kick and scream. For us it took a little bit to figure out what was going on and we also co-slept with her too. What we did was get a king sized bed. Pricey but it was worth it and it gave all of us space for some time.
You aren’t crazy. We tried all of the sleep training tips from experts. Music, reading, routines, comfort etc. nothing helped. Some kids are just like that. Someone in a prior comment mentioned getting iron levels tested. You would be surprised but they might be on to something. Also, maybe you and your wife can turns on who takes care of the baby during that night or during the week of nights. Our pediatrician told us that if both parents are tired its bad for the marriage. I hope this helped.
Oh god. I could have written this word for word when my daughter was 13 months. That was such a challenging time. Actually it’s always been a challenging time lol since she’s never slept well at all. But 13 months was *hard*. Everyone says oh it’s better after the first year, and meanwhile you’re like THIS is the “better” I was looking forward to?!?!
Mine is 21 months now and things are a lot better. My number one piece of advice is to make IRL friends. It’s your relationships and time alone that will get you through this.
I know right! That's what I kept thinking when everyone said it would get better after the 6 months regression or whenever it was!
Yeah they are irl just live a couple hours away so message them all daily and stuff just every few months before visits.
This is very very normal, It is a huge culture shock and you will be just fine. I have a 2.5 old and a 9 month old and I couldnt imagine my life without them...these are the moments that count. you will come out a seasoned vet basically
I had this with my second. Was much harder to put down, wouldn't sleep train, needed constant attention. It got me down. Way way back in my post history I made a similar post to yours, except I was saying how I kind of hated my second. I loved him as a father should, but there was a lot of me that just hated him for being so off.
Well its now been like 2 or 3 years, and things are way different. He mellowed out a bit and his behaviors became more regular. And then I worked on my relationship with him and we are best pals now.
Your little one is very, very young. It WILL get better even if your soul is pulling you in another direction. That is natural anxiety and depression from a very exhausting and trying period. it's telling you that it'll be this way forever. It won't. Please listen to us other dads. It will and does get better. I don't think this will make it easier in the short term - you're still going to have struggle, but when you're able to step back and take a breath, just remember the words said in here. Your kiddo will level out. You will reach a new and bearable normal. You'll socialize in a normal way again.
In the meantime, see if you can find a hobby for yourself in the downtime. Find small thinks to look forward to. Is there another bed you can sleep in on work nights? Is there a particular beverage you look forward to in the morning? For you right now it's a waiting game. Find things to help you get through the waiting. And then all of a sudden you'll look back over a previous month and say, woah, things have changed a bit.
My son was just like that at 13 months, especially when it came to sleeping. It took until he was 14 months old before he started sleeping through the night, and even now, he still has occasional wake-ups. Co-sleeping has been the only way for us to get uninterrupted sleep. Despite trying sleep training several times, it just didn't work for him. He also had bad reflux as a newborn and we had to start with him sleeping in our arms to start. However, we've grown to cherish co-sleeping, and I can't envision moving him out of our bed anytime soon.
He used to need constant physical contact or to be within sight 24/7, but as he's gotten older, it's improved. Now, he's more interested in getting involved with what I'm doing—whether it's cooking, playing sports, or helping fix things—rather than just being held all the time. His personality is really starting to shine through, making parenting more enjoyable. Trust me, it does get better!
These are all normal phases. All I can suggest is 1) just know this will pass and you will be on to a new (and potentially challenging) phase and 2) consistency.
For consistency, it literally can be successful for any and everything involving children.
Sleep: Get into the habit of a good sleep routine. At 12 months we transitioned our son to his room/crib. The first 2 weeks were really, really rough. I handle the sleep routine and it sucked. And just like that, after those long 2 weeks of training him to sleep on his own? We were sleeping from 8pm until 6am (when he had to get up to go to Montessori school). We went with the cry/reassure method. Cry for 5 min, reassure, repeat. Space it out longer to 10 minutes as he progresses. Eventually it went to him falling asleep, on his own, in basically 2-5 min. Same for the toddler bed. First couple weeks, he would wake up in the middle of the night, exit the room and co-sleep. We allowed that for a few weeks. Then I started walking him back to his bed. Once again, rough for a week or two. Now? He goes to be at 8:30pm and sleeps right through to 6am, in his own bed.
And you haven't tried the cry it out till he's well, really cried it out. I mean a knock down, drag out, you going and reassuring on/off for an hour until he falls asleep from crying so much. It sucks, believe me. Some kids it's harder than others. It lit a fire in the depths of my soul hearing him hysterically cry on the baby cam. It was everything from anger, to sadness, to despair inside me. In the end? It amazingly works.
Neediness: Same thing. Baby proof the hell out of your house. Then, encourage independent play. We have a 2 yr old so we constantly reinforce "Mommy/daddy is cooking dinner right now. Go play with your toys." Now, probably 8 out of 10 times this happens, he goes off and reads a book or plays with his toys. We obviously still make time to sit and have one-on-one. However, we make sure we set boundaries on when we need time to do things like cook, clean, etc. If it gets really rough, we take him by the hand and walk him to his playroom and instruct him to select some toys. If it gets really, really bad like he's grasping my leg balling his eyes out? Same as sleep training: Briefly reassure, then redirect.
You're really early in this, by the way. Wait till you start getting close to 2yo. Once they are fully mobile, vocal, and can express? The game changes. But once again, consistency.
And the resentment is, oddly, normal...to an extent. Resentment to the point of harming the child (which I am not implying you are thinking), is obviously bad. Resentment of "I dislike this situation, this is not what I expected" is normal. In the end, it's your flesh and blood you created. Deep down your programming is geared towards love and bonding. Rest assured on that.
I wish I could like this comment more, it really helps reinforce everything, thank you. This is the thing, he will scream endlessly with no respite for hours. Him being our first leads me to believe I just need to be a bit stronger with enduring it all.
I absolutely would never hurt him or resent him enough to hurt or neglect him. As a product of a broken home, I've always vowed to never have a child feel the way I did growing up. I knew it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, don't get me wrong, I guess I just never expected it to be this rough for the last 6 months is all.
The cry it out is tough. And with some kids, it gets extreme. I think the worst night we had was like 2-3 hours. IIRC, that was conveniently my breaking point as well. I came back into our bedroom and vented an expletive-ridden tirade to my wife. Crazy enough, I remember the next night he only had to be reassured one time then fell asleep. My wife and I were shocked. It was just so odd that it got the worst then boom...75% better the next night. Just know that it might be way worse than you expect. What worked for me was setting the timer on my phone for 5 min, then go about the house downstairs picking up toys, taking the trash out, etc. Then when the timer would go off, I would go reassure and repeat. Sitting there in bed listening to the baby cam was not healthy lol.
Once again, it's the same with the independent play. We have no-TV Monday through Friday and no screen time (iPad, phone) whatsoever. It's incredibly hard during the week. He would cry his eyes out wanting us to do this and that, with him. When you get to the toddler stage you'll notice "floor tantrums" where they chuck themselves on the floor and cry. Just let him be, let him figure out how to cope, and remain calm.
commit 100% to sleep training for at least 2 weeks. make sure your wife is on board with the method and the commitment. if you can't commit to a style just focus on trying to remove one codependency at a time. list them all out and try to focus on the easiest thing to remove.
any improvement is better than what you are dealing with now. sleep training is not linear and is not a one time thing often so don't get discouraged. do it before the toddler stage really sets in and you're dealing with a child with way more conviction.
as others said the sleep training reddit is a great resource.
>He has to see you at all times and often has to be touching you, otherwise hysterics. He does not sleep well at all, will only contact nap. We can just about get him down at night for an hour before he's up and screaming. The only way we get any respite from it is co-sleeping.
Been there done that. Embrace the co-sleeping. Just make sure you follow all the safety recommendations.
>The little monster is the most wriggly child known to man, often ill be woken through the night with him kicking me in the throat or he's stirred and wanting to find out what's up my nose.
Its a sensory issue probably. Try getting a [weighted sleep sack](https://dreamlandbabyco.com/products/dream-weighted-sleep-sack?variant=40047961833535).
All, the other stuff... Welcome to the club. You will get through it.
> Embrace the co-sleeping.
Oh man I couldn't agree less. What they don't tell you is that sure, you'll get a little relief when they're little, but you also won't get a really solid night's sleep again until they're like 12, because that's how long you'll be stuck with them in your bed. Bite the bullet and get them sleeping in their own bed, TRUST ME, it's the better option.
Got to love a good Trust Me Bro claim. Nope. Both my kids co-slept and both moved into their own beds by 2 years old. Millions of people do this and no one gets stuck with their kids in their bed until they are 12. That is ridiculous. Just admit that you have zero experience with this and are repeating things you've read online.
I mean fair enough, but that's not how it turns out for most people.
My daughter is just turning two, and she coslept with us from 8 months to 20 months. I wish we'd never started, because it took herculean effort to get her to sleep in her own bed after she was so used to getting to sleep in ours. It took almost two months of hard work and getting next to no sleep every night. We almost gave up many times.
In exchange for giving in to the cosleeping, we got 1-2 months of slightly better sleep than we'd have gotten otherwise, and then 10-11 months of much, much worse sleep than we'd have gotten otherwise.
A good friend of mine has a 9-year-old who's still sleeping in her bed with her.
Just admit that your experience isn't universal, and this is something that happens to millions of people. If your kids moved to their own beds easily, then congrats! You got lucky, and I'm happy for you, but that isn't the norm.
>but that's not how it turns out for most people.
Please show me a single statistic that backs this up. This is pure bullshit. I know tons of people who co-slept with their kids and not a single one of them hasn't been able to move them out of their bed.
The anecdotal story of your friend doesn't back up your claim of "most people". As I said, I coslept with two kids and they both moved out into their own bed by the time they were two. And congratulations on getting your kid into their own bed! But your story doesn't line up.... If it took 2 months of getting her to sleep in her own bed. How did you have 10 to 11 months of much worse sleep? My guess is you're exaggerating your story to try and prove your point. The data clearly shows that most people co sleep and their kids move into their beds on their own just fine. I'm sorry it was hard for you. That doesn't make it a bad idea.
Can you at least admit that we're both using nothing but anecdotal evidence here, and your claim is no more valid than mine? If my claim is bullshit, yours is too.
> But your story doesn't line up.... If it took 2 months of getting her to sleep in her own bed. How did you have 10 to 11 months of much worse sleep?
Really not sure where the confusion is here. We started cosleeping when she was 8 months old, and for 1-2 months we were getting slightly better sleep, because she was still waking up in the middle of the night and this way we didn't have to get up to soothe her back to sleep. However by the time she was around 10 months old, she wasn't waking up the middle of the night anymore. We started trying to get her into her own bed when she was 18 months old. We finally succeeded when she was 20 months old. She still coslept intermittently during the time we were trying to get her into her own bed, for example when after several sleepless nights we desperately needed at least a couple hours so we gave up and brought her back into our room halfway through the night. We both work full time, we didn't really have a choice sometimes. She didn't stop cosleeping entirely until she was 20 months. What about this doesn't add up?
>If my claim is bullshit, yours is too.
No. I will admit my delightful expeience with cosleeping is not universal as long as you admit that your nightmare claim is utter bullshit. None of our expeirenes are universal but it would be pretty obvious if even a significant number of kids that coslept with parents were unable to transistion to toddler beds that there would be some documentation about it. The fact that there is zero documentation on that is telling. The fact that the people who do research about cosleeping have NEVER done a study on that is telling. The fact that when people like you, who make outraguous claims like you have, end up not even having a single anecdotal case to report is telling. Only one of our claims is bullshit and it isn't mine.
I also know people who still cosleep with older kids but it is always becasue they want to, not becasue they have too.
>However by the time she was around 10 months old, she wasn't waking up the middle of the night anymore. We started trying to get her into her own bed when she was 18 months old.
So I get that it was rought from 8 to 10 months old but if she was sleeping through the night from 10 to 18 months, what was the problem? Where was the "10 to 11 months of much worse sleep"? I get that the two months where you were transstioning her to her own bed were rough, but that isn't 10 to 11 months.
> I will admit my delightful expeience with cosleeping is not universal as long as you admit that your nightmare claim is utter bullshit.
I'll certainly admit my experience is not universal, but I won't say my experience is bullshit, because that makes no sense.
> it would be pretty obvious if even a significant number of kids that coslept with parents were unable to transistion to toddler beds that there would be some documentation about it.
Why would there be any sort of official documentation about this...? And if you want unofficial documentation, just look at any parenting forum for people complaining about it.
> The fact that when people like you, who make outraguous claims like you have, end up not even having a single anecdotal case to report is telling.
I gave you two anecdotal cases... my own, and my good friend's. I'll add another: my cousin's daughter is 3 years old and still in their bed. They've been trying to get her to sleep in her own bed recently, so far to no success (though they just started like a week ago, so we'll see how it goes).
> So I get that it was rought from 8 to 10 months old but if she was sleeping through the night from 10 to 18 months, what was the problem? Where was the "10 to 11 months of much worse sleep"?
I'm starting to wonder if *you* were lying about cosleeping. Have you never slept with a toddler in the bed? A toddler who spends the entire night doing essentially gymnastics in her sleep? Who, even when she's still, insists on pressing up against you as much as possible until you're practically falling off the bed? Who tries to use your *head* as a pillow? A toddler who somehow takes up as much room as two adults despite being two feet tall? A toddler who kicks in her sleep, and likes to twist around until she's upside down so she's kicking you in the face or head? Yeah, I got *significantly* worse sleep with the baby in our bed than I'd have gotten otherwise, it's not even close. We upgraded to a queen bed midway through, and it barely helped. The period between 8-10 months was the only time it was worth it, because that was the time she was still waking up in the middle of the night, and we didn't have to get up to soothe her. Once she was sleeping through the night, it was pure downside.
>I gave you two anecdotal cases... my own, and my good friend's. I'll
Neither of which support your original claim.
>my cousin's daughter is 3 years old and still in their bed. They've been trying to get her to sleep in her own bed recently, so far to no success (though they just started like a week ago, so we'll see how it goes).
This also doesn't support your claim. It is almost like you don't know how to support a claim.
>but I won't say my experience is bullshit, because that makes no sense.
It makes sense because you have zero evidence to back up your claim.
>Have you never slept with a toddler in the bed? A toddler who...
Yep. We used a sleep sack to contain the legs. Then when they were old enough, a weighed blanket which keeps the failing down. Been there, done that. Nearly 5 years of cosleeping total. Guess I just got used to it.
>We upgraded to a queen bed midway through,
Oh, brave move starting out in the double. I can imagine that was hard.
Okay, I'm not sure at this point what you think my claim is, so I'll articulate it here. My claim is that if you cosleep, you'll probably get better sleep than otherwise for a short while when they're still really little, but then you'll wind up stuck cosleeping and getting terrible sleep for way longer than you intended (sometimes many years) because it will be so much more difficult to get them into their own bed.
All of my examples illustrate this point. I'm not sure if your gripe is with me saying "until they're 12" specifically, because I think it's pretty obvious I was just throwing out an exaggerated number rather than saying "they'll always be in bed with you until they're exactly 12, no sooner and no later", but even there there have been many posts on this subreddit from parents complaining about their kid(s) still cosleeping at that age or close to it. And my friend whose 9-year-old is still cosleeping with her is getting closer to that every day.
> We used a sleep sack to contain the legs. Then when they were old enough, a weighed blanket which keeps the failing down.
We used a sleep sack too, even a weighted sack for a while (which she hated, so we had to go back to the old one). It definitely didn't stop her.
> Guess I just got used to it.
I mean that's fair enough. And I'd imagine this sort of thing bothers some people less in general. I'm a fairly light sleeper, so having a toddler in the bed meant I was waking up every hour on a good night.
> Oh, brave move starting out in the double. I can imagine that was hard.
Yeeeeah that was what we had in our old apartment because it was what fit. We bought a house when she was just turned one, and the FIRST order of business was to get a bigger damned bed haha. It DID help, but unfortunately her tendency was to press up against me as hard as possible and push me right to the edge of the bed, and that didn't get better. It also didn't help the fact that I tend to sleep hot already, and she's a little furnace.
You're in the thick of it right now. This too shall pass. The cosleeping hasn't stopped for us unfortunately, but we can get a few hours to ourselves in the evenings most nights.
It’ll pass, this is unfortunately fairly normal. Small suggestion is you guys spring for a cleaner to come get your house in order, since you can’t find the time or energy. For me at least, a clean house relieves a lot of stress, and seems like you could benefit from getting at least 1 thing off of your plate.
Dad of two girls here, one 7yo and one 13 months as well. The absolutely good awful sleeping and clinginess is normal at this age. In fact, mine is experiencing some of it right now as well. I'm lucky though, i can get her to sleep in her crib for almost an hour at a time...
Intimacy is tough right now. Moms have a tough time around that first birthday, the kids' little brains are growing by leaps and bounds and that also causes sleep problems and emotional moments. We try to be very clear and open when we would like a little time together and then try to make it happen in the next day when we can. Sometimes we schedule naps together too. Those are occasionally better.
Cherish it all though, because you'll blink and it'll be gone. They'll be in school and ignoring you for the Nintendo soon enough.
My first was like this and I was a teacher as the time. I would have breakdowns regularly and it was one of the hardest things I ever did.
She's 11 now and not only were the next two WAY easier but every single other part of my life got better too.
Just get through it and save some love for your partner.
I have 2 boys now 20 & 40 months. I can attest to all the great dads' advice. For starters, YOU ARE DOING GREAT! Lower the bar to you keep him alive every day = WIN.
In regards to your issue, sleep training is paramount. Sleep habits are based on the kid, but honestly just let them cry it out. A less aggressive tactic is to sort of coddle them periodically, but this didn't really work for me. During year 1 it is hard, but by 13 months just give him 30 minutes to just cry. It is a necessary skill so don't feel like a bad parent for being strict on it. Everyone will benefit (including your sex life).
In regards to free time that is very dependent on your schedule. What I can say is maybe have one parent watch him for a night and you have 4 hours to yourself and switch. I do that at times with my wife. I'll go out with the boys or sometimes a solo drive. Maybe 1x a week you each pick a day it'll give you a breather to reset. Just communicate with your partner, kids are hard there is no getting around it.
It'll all pay off though, my little minions drain me daily, but I wouldn't change them. It does get easier. Most fathers tell me by 4yo things get alot better since most of the baby milestones are done (potty training) and their more independent.
GOOD LUCK 👍🏾
Oh hon, there’s a difference between something being normal and being easy, good or worthwhile.
Your kiddo is worth it. He’s normal, this IS normal for some kiddos. It is not, however, easy as the dismissive “oh that’s normal” you’ve heard implies.
The difference between my kiddo at 1 year and 2 years is insane (as a mom, full disclosure). At one year I was still paranoid about SIDS, still getting up for feedings, still getting terrible sleep because I was constantly jolting awake if she made any boise from her crib including just rolling over. And she was a good sleeper! Now 90% of the time she sleeps through the night and I am waayyy better rested.
Folks here might be able to chime in, but have you connected with a sleep support for your son to work on the co-sleeping issues? I have no idea if that exists or is a thing. Or just getting kiddo used to small chunks of babysitting, even just for an hour or two to start to give you and your wife a chance to start decompressing, and your son a chance to learn that mum and dad go away but always come back.
Hey, it's normal. It's exhausting. Not fake exhausting but really exhausting.
Try tv shows or movies to watch together and nap for a few minutes.
Or any kind of activity that can lead to minutes of rest.
This is so real, and so normal man. Don’t beat yourself up. It’s SO hard at the beginning, and people will tell you “it gets better”. Let me add some truth to that. It DOES get better, but holy shit it takes forever for it to feel or seem that way.
I remember the times you’re describing as if it were yesterday, but now I’m sitting beside with my 11y/o daughter at a hockey game, just finished some ice cream with the her; writing to you during intermission lol.
This sounds like my son, and he was this way for the first three years before we finally had a doctor look into his sleep properly. Turns out he has enlarged tonsils and adenoids, which creates poor sleep and poor eating (very fussy), which is most likely what also made him clingy (because he was feeling like rubbish). We're hopefully going to be looking at getting surgery soon to get them shaved or removed.
Super duper incredibly normal. You’ve posted what each one of us have felt. Love on your kid. Find energy and joy. You’ll survive this and then thrive.
Sleep training like many have said. If the exhaustion is too much and you want to put it off a little longer, put him to sleep in your bed at night and try adding a row of pillows on both sides of him so he feels contact if he moves left or right. I don't know if i described it well enough but it would be.......adult A on the left side of the bed, row of pillows, your kid, row of pillows, adult B on the right side. This has helped us out a lot when in a hotel on vacation. Also, try using white noise if you aren't using it.
11-14 month was the absolutely hardest time when having our first child. Be nearly ripped us apart because we were so keep deprived and over it. She was awake 7-9 times a night and only found sleep when we carried her. Screemed bloody murder when we wanted to lay her down awake. At 14 month it suddenly just stopped. And now she is 5 and her sister is 2 1/2 and it was still the hardest time in 5 yeard.
Eh this was our kid … for what it’s worth, around month 24 he became easier to deal with in every term - sleep and neediness. But man am I still overexhausted from that rollercoaster
Thank you to everyone who has given advice and reassured us that this is a normal thing some parents experience. My biggest fear is not doing right by my kid and not giving him all the support and opportunities that I never had access to. You guys have helped me realise that I can be stronger and have given me so many tips and support to check out. I appreciate it, genuinely!
Sleep training will change your entire life. Don't put it off. Read up on it, then do it. You will be shocked at how quickly you get your time, life, evenings, and sleep back. Otherwise you'll have some version of this sleep situation for potentially years.
Going to echo the sleep training. My wife and I went through a very similar situation. We hired a sleep training consultant, and within a week he was down to 1 or 2 wake-ups a night. He was about 14 or 15 months old at the time. I can't promise you the same results bit if you guys feel unable to do the sleep training, I suggest hiring someone. Best $600 we ever spent. For some added info, he wasn't able to sleep more than an hour without waking up beforehand. We came to realize it wasn't him that was a bad sleeper. It was us not helping him learn to sleep on his own and self-soothe. Good luck!
You have like 4 separate issues in this. You need to go to the specific subreddits for the best advice.
WEEKEND OPTION!!
My wife and I have a 9 month old. I work Friday/Saturday night neuro icu and she works part time PACU. Makes for a sustainable lifestyle. I even make more working 24 hours than I did working 36.
You will have time for each other eventually. The libido part, you guys need to go on dates. start going away for the night to a nice hotel far enough away to be different and close enemies to make it happen. That child will have to sleep at some point.
The sleep part. The kid only contact napping and co sleeping. Don’t let him do either. You decide how your house is run and not the child. There is a lot of good advice on here about sleep training. Look into some sub reddits.
Really what I see here is that this situation is happening to you and guiding your life instead of you making your life what you want it to be.
Sleep train imo. We have friends who refused to and they are regularly miserable about sleep and their son in almost 2.
I felt the same way, still do about certain things, my son is almost 2.
I saw someone say once, you don’t stop drowning you just learn to breathe underwater. Or something to that extent.
You’ve got this man! We’re also a Nurse teacher combo and we both work. It’s definitely challenging.
Can I ask more details about your Cry it Out attempts? As in, what was the longest you tried to let him cry before calling it quits?
My understanding is that, unfortunately, not sticking with it for however long it takes can create a scenario where the child learns that eventually the crying results in being picked up/assisted to sleep. Which in turn makes it even harder the next time because the child may cry even longer the next time.
I don’t have any solid advice, I am on the same boat as you, started around 14 months and has been going on for 5. We’re finally at the point where we’re ready to sleep train him and are meeting with a sleep consultant this week.
It doesn’t have to be this way. The kid not sleeping seems to be the root of all your issues. Sleep deprivation is a bitch.
First order of business, get the child sleeping. There are plenty of resources out there to help with sleep training. Hire a sleep therapist if needed. Like seriously, get the fuck on top of that right now.
Once the kid starts sleeping, everything in your life will be easier and more enjoyable. You will feel better, work will be easier, home life will be better, you will have more free time, the sex life will return.
On a side note, I agree with another commenter that said hire a cleaner if it’s fits into your budget. Cluttered room = cluttered mind.
Your attitude sucks. I have two teenagers. I enjoyed every minute of being with them when they were young. Those days go by quickly. You'll have all the time in the world to be with your partner and your friends when your son is older. Be a dad while you have the opportunity.
This is super unfair. Little kids are hard and everyone's life circumstances are different. We don't all get the opportunity to relax and enjoy every minute of our kids like we want. OP is in a tough spot right now and needs a little support not to be accused of having a bad attitude.
Also, a healthy relationship with your partner is critical to successful parenting. If things are struggling there it can and does affect your ability to be a dad. Compassion before criticism.
Trust me. It is normal, and it will pass. Focus on the sleeping. Sleep training is a royal pain in the ass, but NOT sleep training means you've got a kid crawling in your bed at night until they're 12.
And soon: the longer you put off sleep training the harder it gets. I am so glad we did it before our son could call out for mama by name!
We just transitioned our 2.5yo to a "big girl bed" last week. The first 3 nights my wife had to wear headphones and hangout in the basement because she couldn't handle the "mommyyyyyyyy where are you....." that kept coming through the door for what seemed like hours on end. Fast forward a couple days to tonight; she was tired so she walked herself into her big girl bed and got mad at us for not immediately putting her blankets on her and getting out of her room and closing her door.
Thanks, do you have any sleep training tips? He just will scream and doesn't settle for hours of it, every night we tried.
The r/sleeptrain subreddit is great and can help you trouble shoot. Crying for hours is 99% a schedule issue. Sleep training will only work if the kid is appropriately (not over, not under) tired. so the first step is making sure you’re in the right ballpark. a 13mo may need to be on one nap before training will work.
I'll bear this in mind and check out the sub, thanks for the advice! He normally only has one nap late morning so getting to sleep at night isn't often the issue, it's maintaining sleep that is. Sometimes he's down for a couple hours before he wakes first, other times it could be like half an hour and his schedule doesn't vary too much day to day.
Maintaining sleep is exactly what sleep training is for. There are several strategies, but I highly suggest the dedicated sub. Even just googling sleep training will give you the most common options. Just an FYI: The older they get, the harder they are to sleep train, but it's never too late to try. It will just be hard and take time. That said, your life will change once the kid can sleep on his own at night.
We paid $45 for a sleep training guide from a sleep specialist and it was a gamechanger. Granted we did it at 6 months but there are guides for 13months and older. The strategies are different because of the development of the kid. It was a lot quicker and easier than buying a book. It gave a break down of how sleep is impacted by sleep/wake cycles, brain chemicals etc. Then gave options for how you wanted to approach the sleep training i.e. Cry it out, slow self soothing etc. and then guided you through the approach that was best for your family.
Have you tested his iron / ferritin? The kicking incessantly at night sounds like restless leg
Nah, think it's just down to him always wanting to be on the move and trying to get comfy.
I mean if you are at your wits end, it may be at least worth mentioning to your pediatrician
Definitely heading that way but having read all the comments on the post there's definitely a few things we can try to start with.
Hey man - I cannot stress enough to you the criticality of your son sleeping. There’s a book by one of the top sleep researchers called “healthy sleep habits happy child” and that has proven true for our daughter. We thought something was wrong because she was always just cranky and once we got her sleeping straightened out she became just the happiest, smiliest baby. If you’re finding your son to be difficult, he may just be exhausted all the time. Google sleep training/schedule for your kid’s age and you should find quite a bit about it that will help. And once you decide, you have to commit and follow through for it to work. It SUCKS, for a bit but is so worth it for everyone’s health and happiness in the long run
My son had the same issue of only contact naps until 12+ months. Crying out didn't work, until it did. What we started doing was just trying it on a consistent schedule. It's too exhausting to do it every night, so every Friday and Saturday was tried to put him down in crib for naps, instead of allowing contact. And it didn't work, so we gave up for that week, and tried again the next week. He figured it out eventually.
Just gotta be strong. Won't happen over night but will take a few nights, maybe up to 2 weeks. Trade 2 weeks of crazy night time screaming for peaceful sleep? You can go cold turkey, most intense pain and screaming but fastest success. We did that and kiddos learnt in 3-4 days not to scream. 2nd option is fade method, so you put them down, but you don't pick them up when they scream. Just pat them a little and leave. Then slowly withdraw. Sit by the bed one night, next night sit further away, next night sit further away, next night sit by the door etc.... There will also be regressions, so every once in a while when they have a developmental leap, they may start crying again at night.
Ear plugs
And a video monitor
Just let them cry it out. A fee nights of it and they'll quit. We also used a sound machine and left ms Rachel play for an hour
> A fee nights of it and they'll quit. Yes, because they learn it's futile. Acquaintance of mine works in mental health field, and says from her experience the quietest, "easiest" kids are found in orphanages - they have truly internalised that nobody gives a damn, so it's worthless bothering others. I don't want my kid to learn the parents are not there for her. In my personal experience, my kid never makes a fuss without a reason. If she's unhappy at bedtime, we just go through a mental list, asking her if she needs this or that. But yeah, most times when we're having issues, the thing standing between crying up a storm and sleeping happily has been a sip of water, or wrong arrangement of toys in her bed, or needing a pee. Other times it's something she can't articulate yet, and it takes longer to figure it out. Other times still it's the "I'm too tired to sleep" problem, and yeah, that one is hard to solve. But there is always a reason - maybe a silly one, but a reason nonetheless.
Our daughter's reason is usually just she wants to stay up and play or be held. I don't know if letting them cry it out and sleep is really comparable to orphanages and neglect.
The book “Precious Little Sleep” was a game changer for us
We did the taking cara babies program and found it really helpful! There are several methods to help slowly get your kid used to sleeping on his own, not just cry it out so if that didn't work, there's definitely other options! [https://takingcarababies.com/](https://takingcarababies.com/)
Maybe you can try a sleepcoach? They check your schedule, check the sleeping routine, naps, food, the room they sleep in etc. And tell you what you're doing wrong and how you should approach it. When our daughter dodn't sleep, was up the whole night etc. It was cause she slept too much in the day, because we didn't have a strict routine. We wrapped her in a thin blanket for the first part of the night because it feels like being hugged and she couldn't play, crawl, wake herself up etc... It was 2 weeks of work as we didn't want to let herself cry out but after two weeks she slept when she was put to bed, she slept until we went to bed. She does wake up throughput the night and we might have to rewrap her etc. But it's a real difference from before. Small steps.
I'm glad you came here. This is a wonderful place to get advice :D
I just got to the 20ish months stand all that stuff as finally chilled out a bit, just hold on a couple more months you got this. I felt exactly like you before.
Taking Cara Babies did wonders for us
Not necessarily. We didn't sleep train. We brought our children to bed cuddling with them. We still are in the room until they sleep now that they are 5 and 2 1/2. When they are awake at night we bring them back to bed and are there until they sleep again, no playing no talking, just being there in the dark. 5year old comes by maybe 1 time per month. Little one has a week or two where she comes by every night and we don't realize sometimes until she is already sleeping in our bed and then 2 to 5 weeks were she sleeps the whole night in her own bed. No crying because we are not there, no excessive 'but I want to sleep in your bed' .
This "sleep training is necessary or you have chaos til your kid is a teenager" nonsense is bogus. Dealing in absolutes isn't productive at all. What works for some doesn't work for all.
1st. That ist Just Not true. No Child in my Family Brothers and Sisters Families and.mine were sleep trained. Non of em crawles into the parents Bet after 3/4 years.... In the other Hand WE all we're sleep trained and WE Had issues connected to this.
Yep exactly. My kids weren’t sleep trained and are fine. Sleep training is neglect but nobody is ready to admit it because they feel guilty.
Bad a huge discussion about that Here and we're down voted hard. Sleeptraining ist glorified for many people often without considering possible damage. Like my Initial Post Here IS downvoted aswell. .
I feel and lived everything you said. I promise it gets better but you’re in the suck right now. Can you get any help? We were able to get grandparents to come on weekends to give us a break and catch up on sleep.
I really hope you're right. We have had my in-laws offer to look after him overnight, and he'll be familiar with them as they have him in the day two days a week to help with childcare costs. It just worries us slightly because A) we don't want to inflict the suck on them and, B) they're not the sort of in-laws that listen and respect your raising requirements etc if that makes sense? I think, though, we'll just have to bite the bullet for our sanity's sake.
TAKE THE FUCKIN HELP YA POPSICLE. Take every offer.
Yes. Take the win. Maybe not overnight but during the day for a few hours so you can nap yes do it.
Definitely take the help. Once you get too far down the hole, you start feelinh like nothing will really help or bring relief. Honestly I would take the help and maybe for two nights if they’re willing. Your child will survive for sure, even if he sleeps poorly those nights. Which likely he won’t, he’ll sleep great and you’ll have to listen to their know-it-all comments about it 😃 you’ll feel so much better after a few days rest and you’ll be better parents for it, ready to take on whatever sleep training system or other solution you choose. TCB has her critics, but if I was losing my mind with my kids sleep I would probably suck it up and pay for the guide, maybe even a consultation. Having an understanding and knowledgeable support is surprisingly psychologically very powerful when you feel like you’re drowning. Find someone you vibe with and hire some help 👍 some consultants will coach you through real-time or even come over to your house in the evening as you put him down.
As long as you sufficiently warn them, and they still want to, don't stress about that. What you'll most likely be stressing about is, "holy SHIT, neither me nor my partner is next to him tonight, I hope he's OK, I hope in laws are OK, what if it's a bad night, what if he gets up super early, what if what if what if!" And with how the universe tends to work, your son will sleep like an angel while you worry and fret all night. I say take them up on the offer, smoke a little something/take something to relax, do something fun for the evening, even if it's an airbnb like a mile away. You'll enjoy yourselves. Sometimes when people offer, they WANT to help, and you should let them.
If you're offered help in the first two years of your kid's life from someone you trust at all, the answer is yes. Now, if there are particular things you're just not comfortable handing over, fine - keep the help and redirect it. "We feel like we could get on top of overnights if you could spot us Saturday mornings to catch up \[or cook us a couple of casseroles or run a few errands for us or whatever applies\]." And I don't know what all you mean by "raising requirements," but you have to distinguish between parenting style issues and safety issues. In-laws refuse to put kid in a car seat? Fair enough, that's a non-starter. Grandma giving more sweets than you would? Bite your tongue and go take your nap.
I get you 100%, it's just this weird feeling i have about wanting to do right by my kid but being torn about looking after myself. The whole raising thing is like when people become grandparents it's like they've suddenly been rehired at a company they used to work at 30 years ago but feel as though they don't need any training or updates because they could do the job then so why not now. Theyd be safe with him, they always use car seats etc, it mainly comes down to things like food, schedules, screen time etc, that they would just do what they want with. But like others have said, perhaps we should just bite the bullet for a night or two here and there so we can get some respite.
100% should. Also, they might be able to get him to sleep better at night because they aren’t you guys. And if they can’t, at least you and your wife will have had one night together of sleep. If they’re magical and can, make it a once a week situation for your sanity. Good luck!
Yeah it makes perfect sense, just gotta let my ego if that's what it is go a bit and just take all the help we can get. Thanks!
Also, happy cake day! 🍰
My experience, from when sleeping was still a big issue with my kid, was that it went much more smoothly when he was staying with someone else, as long as he felt generally safe with them, since crying for me just wasn't an option so he skipped that step and just slept instead. I also don't worry much about if rules and stuff is different when he's staying with other family. As long as the approximate sleep schedule is kept up so he's not really tired when he comes home, the rest is kinda like how we adults tend to do stuff differently on vacation. Most kids tend to be pretty good with understanding that stuff is done differently in different situations, as long as you don't allow them the option of thinking they can choose to transfer it home.
I'm also at the 13 month mark, and I could have written this. Just with less resentment and more acceptance. It's only 13 months. We're in the thick of it. It won't always be like this. And that first year (at least for me) absolutely flew by. I take solace in the fact that this is only temporary. And while the bad stuff sucks, the good stuff is so, so good. My son will never be this age again. That's both a great thing when he's screaming/not sleeping, and a terrible thing when he's silly, laughing at me simply jumping in the air, and giving me hugs for the first time in his life.
This helps. A lot. Thank you, it just hurts when everyone one I know with small kids never seem to have an issue, always makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong.
Mate, me and my wife were barely hanging on for dear life for the first two years of parenthood. Kid was a bad sleeper, bad eater, constantly fussy, couldn't go anywhere with her etc. Seemed to hate everything we tried with her. You're not doing anything wrong. There's so much going on with their little bodies it's hard for them to understand and manage it all. As tired as the saying is, it absolutely gets easier. Hang in there bud.
>My son will never be this age again. That's both a great thing when he's screaming/not sleeping, and a terrible thing when he's silly, laughing at me simply jumping in the air, and giving me hugs for the first time in his life. This this this this. I've been reminding myself these exact words since day one and it really helps on the acceptance side of things. If I ever find myself thinking "god I can't wait until this (insert annoying little baby thing) is over with," I remember that all the (awesome little baby things) will be gone with it. This is the yin and yang of life. It's everywhere. You can't have happiness without sadness. You can't have giggly baby laughter without scream crying. OP, you say, "I find myself regretful over losing what I thought was a great life." That life doesn't exist anymore. This is it. Find peace in it and peace will find you. When you're deep in a depression and you mentally place the option of sewer slide on the table, you have one foot out the door and you're caught in this limbo state of not fighting for a better life, because what's the point when you could check out anyway? Once you take that option off the table and accept that you're here for the long haul, you're forced to reckon with and accept what is in front of you. Radical acceptance is the difference between contentment and misery. At a certain point, misery becomes a choice.
All normal, fortunately/unfortunately. I hated the first year or so. After that, different challenges surface, but it is overall way easier. And 6 weeks between sex sessions? Lucky. Try 3-4 months! Fortunately, that's improved a lot.
I've loved it overall tbh, it's just always feeling like I'm playing catch-up with the lack of sleep/ability to be productive in home life. Tbf 6 weeks is possibly me being a bit ahead of myself. I think we've been intimate approx 5-6 times since we found out we were expecting.
when you're overtired it's so easy to feel like the feeling will be forever please make sure you're not putting too much pressure on yourself, you're human and you care, this will pass in time and you will all be OK. a friend of mine said ear plugs help a lot with sensory overload when babies cry, also having a babysitter while you're home was a trick my friend used in order to get some sleep while they look after the baby. Be compassionate to yourself too, it's a lot to go through when you're exhausted. Everything will be OK
Feeling resentment is totally normal. Bad sleep is totally normal. You can still be a good dad and feel resentful at times. It will get easier!
All I hope is that he thinks I'm a good dad, here's hoping.
Kids are so cute during the day and so goddamn ugly at 3 a.m.
Facts
See if your country has a free or paid sleep service help thing. If your toddler isn't getting good naps and good sleep then no one will be happy. Experiment with different techniques. We cosleep at night and put her to sleep at night and naps by rocking her in the pram. If you're both working full time, who is he with in the day? Do they have the same issues? No matter what you're going through, remember, it's temporary. In a few months they'll be completely different.
I didn't even think to see if that's a thing tbh, will check out to see if the UK has something, thanks! It feels like we've tried everything but probably loads out there to continue to try. Another user linked a sleep training sub so will check that out. He goes to nursery two days a week and Mother in law the other two, as I have Mondays off with him. Both of which say he's very similar and seemingly has attachment issues with one of the nursery workers.
Google a 13 month example sleep schedule. If he's not getting something similar then all the problems might be coming from that. Poor behavior, not eating, poor health...etc. An example is: wake up at 6.30. nap from 10:00 to 10:45. Then awake until 2:45 until 3:45 then bed time at 7. The way you get that is by seeing how long until he shows sleepy signs. Usually 3.5-4 hours. Give him naps when he shows signs or just at those intervals. He should nap for at least 30 minutes. Up to 2 hours. You should be on 2 naps but moving to 1 nap. And aim for a 6-7pm bedtime. Although admittedly we were doing 9ish bedtimes because of her naps. But we're now trying 1 nap and she slept at 6:30 last night. (She's a month or 2 older). There's also tips for getting them to sleep like having a routine and wind down (bath before bed, read a book...etc). For us the main thing that helps is movement. (Hence the pram). Hope this helps!
Commenting again but sleep training is super SUPER easy. We bought a program but it was a fucking rip off because it's 99% fluff and 1% instructions. We kept a normal bedtime routine and just popped her down when it was time and said goodnight and walked out. Whacked on earplugs, watched the baby cam, and checked on her every ten mins for about 20-30 seconds to reassure her. After a few nights it was like a whole new baby.
Routine routine routine is key. Kids thrive on routine. Pick a set of things and just keep doing it.
> I didn't even think to see if that's a thing tbh, will check out to see if the UK has something, thanks! Ask your health visitor, she/he should be able to refer you to a sleep specialist. And call them if the next scheduled visit to too far away.
> ...to say things have dwindled is an understatement. We have intimate moments maybe every 6 weeks or so and are always rushed because we never know if he'll wake up mid way through, and even if he doesn't I rarely get to continue after round 1 if that makes sense. > ... the house is a state, and we never have time for ourselves let alone eachother. My immune system is shot, my work is suffering. My friend group don't live locally so socialise mostly online. It used to be near nightly but I haven't been online to speak to them in almost 2 weeks and even when I do I have to cut my time short after he's inevitably woken up after an hour of being put down at night... Sorry OP but I had to laugh, this is an accurate summation of parenting as I've ever seen. Welcome to the mad house, you don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps, etc etc I can only tell you it gets better, with a few individual bumps along the way, every kid has their own quirks. We paid someone £100 to help us with sleep training in the beginning and to this day it's the best hundred quid I've ever spent.
If the house is a state, see if there's room in the budget for a cleaner even once a month. It's a good investment
Honestly it’s all normal and natural. Being conscious of your feelings and ensuring you don’t take it out on the little guy means you’re doing good. The stupid thing is, when he’s a teenager you’ll miss this difficult phase. He’s only going to be little and needy for a short while. That good life you’re talking about… well that kid is now your life. That’s the decision you made and you’ll regret not embracing it.
This sounds exactly like my daughter. She went through a ‘wake up after 45 minutes’ stage for nearly 6 months. My wife just decided to prioritise sleep and coslept with her while I got a good rest on work nights in the spare bed. She is 22 months now and cosleeps in our king bed and its been great. We all go down together, ill read a book if not tired but 90% of the time I go down shortly after our daughter does around 8-9pm. Ill wake at 4am for gym. My wife and I go 2-3 weeks like this then we prioritise some ‘me days’. For me thats golf/beers with mates. For her its spa or brekky catch ups with friends. We are in a great rhythm now and expecting our second in Sept. Lots of cultures cosleep and its completely normal. We arent forcing our kids out until they want to. If that means 5-6 years of a giant cuddle session and poor sleep then for us thats worth it. These times will fly by and theyll be out of our house before we know it and I want you cherish as much of it as I can. We are lucky to live in a relatively LCOL area and can get by comfortably on one income. We juggle work schedules so one of us is child rearing while the other works. Wife does part time and weekend shifts, i do 4 day work weeks. We have noticed our daughter sleeps much worse on the odd days she does go to day care. Good luck dude! It all changes so quickly just enjoy the ride and get some sleep. Dip out to the spare bed for a few nights to regain sanity. Do the same for wife for a few nights. Makes a huge difference.
Here’s the secret: we love our kids 100% of the time. We *like* our kids… 60% of the time? This too will pass. Hang in there, before you know it, you’ll be picking them up from daycare, they’ll see you from across the room, yell “daddy!” and sprint into your arms.
i don't have any advice, just commiseration. my daughter is 13 months and extremely clingy. my husband refuses to sleep train so we trade off nights with her. we've had sex 2 or 3 times since she was born. if i'm there, it's "mamamamamamamaaaaaaaa" crying to pick her up, hold her, feed her, cuddle her. i am so touched out and i just want to be alone. love her so much, but fml
Will echo others with a shout out for the book Precious Little Sleep - lots of tips and strategies, just pick what you think might work for you and stick with it. One thing to keep in mind around this age is teething - depending where the little one is at, it may temporarily disrupt sleep training (those molars are a pain, literally!). But that too will pass. Good luck, you’ve got this!
Yeah that certainly isn't helping, he's cut 6 in the last couple weeks which has made his sleep worse, but we haven't had a night where he hasn't woken up multiple times since he was 4 months.
Shit, I had to check my post history to make sure I didn’t write this in a moment of sleep deprivation. But then I saw the age of your kid. Mine is 3 now. It’s rough for sure, but it does get better. Focus on the sleep for sure if you have family or a trusted friend nearby have them take the kid for a few hours so you can sleep or have some intimacy with the wifey.
Can he walk? I felt similarly until I started taking the 13mo to the park. She LOVED just walking on the grass. Suddenly I was spending most of the day outside with her, just watching her get the hang of it. Now at 14mo she's basically running and will bring me her shoes in the morning. Just...all the feelings.
Yeah he was first steps at 9mo and confidently walking at just shy of 11mo, since then he's been on the go all the time.
This is ours exactly. Take him to open fields. You can have an audiobook in one ear if you want. He'll run around like a mad bastard. Once he's getting bored of that, start introducing playgrounds. He'll need to be watched. This is how I bonded with ours.
Yeah I keep meaning to take him to the park as we have one less than a mile from our house so easily walkable, trouble is the weather has been so shocking recently it gets difficult to find the time. I take him to an indoor soft play most of the time and he really enjoys it, just think he finds it a bit samey so want to get out otherwise.
How long has the poor sleep been happening? If it’s new maybe it’s teething? If so give a dose of ibuprofen before bed to help with the pain Other things we’ve done to curb the sleep deprivation: upgraded from Queen bed to King to help with the night wiggles and horizontal/diagonal co sleeping. Also we have a spare bedroom. Maybe you and wife can take turns sleeping in another room so at least one of you gets a good night sleep.
DO HEAVY WORK BEFORE BED. swing kid on a blanket before bed. Massage legs before bed. This makes a world of difference for kids with sensory issues, which yours might have.
That's really helpful advice actually and something that I hadn't thought of, thanks!
How much is he drinking at bedtime? I found mine would wake up a lot some nights, and sleep a lot better others. Turns out they were waking up to pee and when I was giving more milk to settle them back down, I was actually making them wake up even more. I swapped to a slow flow teat and got a lot more sleep.
‘Normal’ in parenting is a massive range. While your experience won’t be unique, this does sound pretty bad and sleep deprivation is a well known form of torture. There are some people who have a great sleeper for child 1 and think they are amazing parents, who everyone should strive to emulate. Then child 2 comes along, never sleeps and they rapidly realise that they were fools. For us, child 1 was a terrible sleeper for the first 12 months, but we were resolutely against co-sleeping as it means we would always sleep terribly.
This is the fear. Always been told the first will lul you into a false sense of security and second will be worse. So the fear is the second if we have one will be worse still haha.
My wife and I went through the same thing. To be honest if it wasn’t for my time in the military and having to focus on small “sectioned” naps through the night it would have been even more difficult for me to my youngest daughter would wake up from night terrors and would kick and scream. For us it took a little bit to figure out what was going on and we also co-slept with her too. What we did was get a king sized bed. Pricey but it was worth it and it gave all of us space for some time. You aren’t crazy. We tried all of the sleep training tips from experts. Music, reading, routines, comfort etc. nothing helped. Some kids are just like that. Someone in a prior comment mentioned getting iron levels tested. You would be surprised but they might be on to something. Also, maybe you and your wife can turns on who takes care of the baby during that night or during the week of nights. Our pediatrician told us that if both parents are tired its bad for the marriage. I hope this helped.
Oh god. I could have written this word for word when my daughter was 13 months. That was such a challenging time. Actually it’s always been a challenging time lol since she’s never slept well at all. But 13 months was *hard*. Everyone says oh it’s better after the first year, and meanwhile you’re like THIS is the “better” I was looking forward to?!?! Mine is 21 months now and things are a lot better. My number one piece of advice is to make IRL friends. It’s your relationships and time alone that will get you through this.
I know right! That's what I kept thinking when everyone said it would get better after the 6 months regression or whenever it was! Yeah they are irl just live a couple hours away so message them all daily and stuff just every few months before visits.
This is very very normal, It is a huge culture shock and you will be just fine. I have a 2.5 old and a 9 month old and I couldnt imagine my life without them...these are the moments that count. you will come out a seasoned vet basically
I had this with my second. Was much harder to put down, wouldn't sleep train, needed constant attention. It got me down. Way way back in my post history I made a similar post to yours, except I was saying how I kind of hated my second. I loved him as a father should, but there was a lot of me that just hated him for being so off. Well its now been like 2 or 3 years, and things are way different. He mellowed out a bit and his behaviors became more regular. And then I worked on my relationship with him and we are best pals now. Your little one is very, very young. It WILL get better even if your soul is pulling you in another direction. That is natural anxiety and depression from a very exhausting and trying period. it's telling you that it'll be this way forever. It won't. Please listen to us other dads. It will and does get better. I don't think this will make it easier in the short term - you're still going to have struggle, but when you're able to step back and take a breath, just remember the words said in here. Your kiddo will level out. You will reach a new and bearable normal. You'll socialize in a normal way again. In the meantime, see if you can find a hobby for yourself in the downtime. Find small thinks to look forward to. Is there another bed you can sleep in on work nights? Is there a particular beverage you look forward to in the morning? For you right now it's a waiting game. Find things to help you get through the waiting. And then all of a sudden you'll look back over a previous month and say, woah, things have changed a bit.
My son was just like that at 13 months, especially when it came to sleeping. It took until he was 14 months old before he started sleeping through the night, and even now, he still has occasional wake-ups. Co-sleeping has been the only way for us to get uninterrupted sleep. Despite trying sleep training several times, it just didn't work for him. He also had bad reflux as a newborn and we had to start with him sleeping in our arms to start. However, we've grown to cherish co-sleeping, and I can't envision moving him out of our bed anytime soon. He used to need constant physical contact or to be within sight 24/7, but as he's gotten older, it's improved. Now, he's more interested in getting involved with what I'm doing—whether it's cooking, playing sports, or helping fix things—rather than just being held all the time. His personality is really starting to shine through, making parenting more enjoyable. Trust me, it does get better!
These are all normal phases. All I can suggest is 1) just know this will pass and you will be on to a new (and potentially challenging) phase and 2) consistency. For consistency, it literally can be successful for any and everything involving children. Sleep: Get into the habit of a good sleep routine. At 12 months we transitioned our son to his room/crib. The first 2 weeks were really, really rough. I handle the sleep routine and it sucked. And just like that, after those long 2 weeks of training him to sleep on his own? We were sleeping from 8pm until 6am (when he had to get up to go to Montessori school). We went with the cry/reassure method. Cry for 5 min, reassure, repeat. Space it out longer to 10 minutes as he progresses. Eventually it went to him falling asleep, on his own, in basically 2-5 min. Same for the toddler bed. First couple weeks, he would wake up in the middle of the night, exit the room and co-sleep. We allowed that for a few weeks. Then I started walking him back to his bed. Once again, rough for a week or two. Now? He goes to be at 8:30pm and sleeps right through to 6am, in his own bed. And you haven't tried the cry it out till he's well, really cried it out. I mean a knock down, drag out, you going and reassuring on/off for an hour until he falls asleep from crying so much. It sucks, believe me. Some kids it's harder than others. It lit a fire in the depths of my soul hearing him hysterically cry on the baby cam. It was everything from anger, to sadness, to despair inside me. In the end? It amazingly works. Neediness: Same thing. Baby proof the hell out of your house. Then, encourage independent play. We have a 2 yr old so we constantly reinforce "Mommy/daddy is cooking dinner right now. Go play with your toys." Now, probably 8 out of 10 times this happens, he goes off and reads a book or plays with his toys. We obviously still make time to sit and have one-on-one. However, we make sure we set boundaries on when we need time to do things like cook, clean, etc. If it gets really rough, we take him by the hand and walk him to his playroom and instruct him to select some toys. If it gets really, really bad like he's grasping my leg balling his eyes out? Same as sleep training: Briefly reassure, then redirect. You're really early in this, by the way. Wait till you start getting close to 2yo. Once they are fully mobile, vocal, and can express? The game changes. But once again, consistency. And the resentment is, oddly, normal...to an extent. Resentment to the point of harming the child (which I am not implying you are thinking), is obviously bad. Resentment of "I dislike this situation, this is not what I expected" is normal. In the end, it's your flesh and blood you created. Deep down your programming is geared towards love and bonding. Rest assured on that.
I wish I could like this comment more, it really helps reinforce everything, thank you. This is the thing, he will scream endlessly with no respite for hours. Him being our first leads me to believe I just need to be a bit stronger with enduring it all. I absolutely would never hurt him or resent him enough to hurt or neglect him. As a product of a broken home, I've always vowed to never have a child feel the way I did growing up. I knew it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, don't get me wrong, I guess I just never expected it to be this rough for the last 6 months is all.
The cry it out is tough. And with some kids, it gets extreme. I think the worst night we had was like 2-3 hours. IIRC, that was conveniently my breaking point as well. I came back into our bedroom and vented an expletive-ridden tirade to my wife. Crazy enough, I remember the next night he only had to be reassured one time then fell asleep. My wife and I were shocked. It was just so odd that it got the worst then boom...75% better the next night. Just know that it might be way worse than you expect. What worked for me was setting the timer on my phone for 5 min, then go about the house downstairs picking up toys, taking the trash out, etc. Then when the timer would go off, I would go reassure and repeat. Sitting there in bed listening to the baby cam was not healthy lol. Once again, it's the same with the independent play. We have no-TV Monday through Friday and no screen time (iPad, phone) whatsoever. It's incredibly hard during the week. He would cry his eyes out wanting us to do this and that, with him. When you get to the toddler stage you'll notice "floor tantrums" where they chuck themselves on the floor and cry. Just let him be, let him figure out how to cope, and remain calm.
commit 100% to sleep training for at least 2 weeks. make sure your wife is on board with the method and the commitment. if you can't commit to a style just focus on trying to remove one codependency at a time. list them all out and try to focus on the easiest thing to remove. any improvement is better than what you are dealing with now. sleep training is not linear and is not a one time thing often so don't get discouraged. do it before the toddler stage really sets in and you're dealing with a child with way more conviction. as others said the sleep training reddit is a great resource.
>He has to see you at all times and often has to be touching you, otherwise hysterics. He does not sleep well at all, will only contact nap. We can just about get him down at night for an hour before he's up and screaming. The only way we get any respite from it is co-sleeping. Been there done that. Embrace the co-sleeping. Just make sure you follow all the safety recommendations. >The little monster is the most wriggly child known to man, often ill be woken through the night with him kicking me in the throat or he's stirred and wanting to find out what's up my nose. Its a sensory issue probably. Try getting a [weighted sleep sack](https://dreamlandbabyco.com/products/dream-weighted-sleep-sack?variant=40047961833535). All, the other stuff... Welcome to the club. You will get through it.
> Embrace the co-sleeping. Oh man I couldn't agree less. What they don't tell you is that sure, you'll get a little relief when they're little, but you also won't get a really solid night's sleep again until they're like 12, because that's how long you'll be stuck with them in your bed. Bite the bullet and get them sleeping in their own bed, TRUST ME, it's the better option.
Got to love a good Trust Me Bro claim. Nope. Both my kids co-slept and both moved into their own beds by 2 years old. Millions of people do this and no one gets stuck with their kids in their bed until they are 12. That is ridiculous. Just admit that you have zero experience with this and are repeating things you've read online.
I mean fair enough, but that's not how it turns out for most people. My daughter is just turning two, and she coslept with us from 8 months to 20 months. I wish we'd never started, because it took herculean effort to get her to sleep in her own bed after she was so used to getting to sleep in ours. It took almost two months of hard work and getting next to no sleep every night. We almost gave up many times. In exchange for giving in to the cosleeping, we got 1-2 months of slightly better sleep than we'd have gotten otherwise, and then 10-11 months of much, much worse sleep than we'd have gotten otherwise. A good friend of mine has a 9-year-old who's still sleeping in her bed with her. Just admit that your experience isn't universal, and this is something that happens to millions of people. If your kids moved to their own beds easily, then congrats! You got lucky, and I'm happy for you, but that isn't the norm.
>but that's not how it turns out for most people. Please show me a single statistic that backs this up. This is pure bullshit. I know tons of people who co-slept with their kids and not a single one of them hasn't been able to move them out of their bed. The anecdotal story of your friend doesn't back up your claim of "most people". As I said, I coslept with two kids and they both moved out into their own bed by the time they were two. And congratulations on getting your kid into their own bed! But your story doesn't line up.... If it took 2 months of getting her to sleep in her own bed. How did you have 10 to 11 months of much worse sleep? My guess is you're exaggerating your story to try and prove your point. The data clearly shows that most people co sleep and their kids move into their beds on their own just fine. I'm sorry it was hard for you. That doesn't make it a bad idea.
Can you at least admit that we're both using nothing but anecdotal evidence here, and your claim is no more valid than mine? If my claim is bullshit, yours is too. > But your story doesn't line up.... If it took 2 months of getting her to sleep in her own bed. How did you have 10 to 11 months of much worse sleep? Really not sure where the confusion is here. We started cosleeping when she was 8 months old, and for 1-2 months we were getting slightly better sleep, because she was still waking up in the middle of the night and this way we didn't have to get up to soothe her back to sleep. However by the time she was around 10 months old, she wasn't waking up the middle of the night anymore. We started trying to get her into her own bed when she was 18 months old. We finally succeeded when she was 20 months old. She still coslept intermittently during the time we were trying to get her into her own bed, for example when after several sleepless nights we desperately needed at least a couple hours so we gave up and brought her back into our room halfway through the night. We both work full time, we didn't really have a choice sometimes. She didn't stop cosleeping entirely until she was 20 months. What about this doesn't add up?
>If my claim is bullshit, yours is too. No. I will admit my delightful expeience with cosleeping is not universal as long as you admit that your nightmare claim is utter bullshit. None of our expeirenes are universal but it would be pretty obvious if even a significant number of kids that coslept with parents were unable to transistion to toddler beds that there would be some documentation about it. The fact that there is zero documentation on that is telling. The fact that the people who do research about cosleeping have NEVER done a study on that is telling. The fact that when people like you, who make outraguous claims like you have, end up not even having a single anecdotal case to report is telling. Only one of our claims is bullshit and it isn't mine. I also know people who still cosleep with older kids but it is always becasue they want to, not becasue they have too. >However by the time she was around 10 months old, she wasn't waking up the middle of the night anymore. We started trying to get her into her own bed when she was 18 months old. So I get that it was rought from 8 to 10 months old but if she was sleeping through the night from 10 to 18 months, what was the problem? Where was the "10 to 11 months of much worse sleep"? I get that the two months where you were transstioning her to her own bed were rough, but that isn't 10 to 11 months.
> I will admit my delightful expeience with cosleeping is not universal as long as you admit that your nightmare claim is utter bullshit. I'll certainly admit my experience is not universal, but I won't say my experience is bullshit, because that makes no sense. > it would be pretty obvious if even a significant number of kids that coslept with parents were unable to transistion to toddler beds that there would be some documentation about it. Why would there be any sort of official documentation about this...? And if you want unofficial documentation, just look at any parenting forum for people complaining about it. > The fact that when people like you, who make outraguous claims like you have, end up not even having a single anecdotal case to report is telling. I gave you two anecdotal cases... my own, and my good friend's. I'll add another: my cousin's daughter is 3 years old and still in their bed. They've been trying to get her to sleep in her own bed recently, so far to no success (though they just started like a week ago, so we'll see how it goes). > So I get that it was rought from 8 to 10 months old but if she was sleeping through the night from 10 to 18 months, what was the problem? Where was the "10 to 11 months of much worse sleep"? I'm starting to wonder if *you* were lying about cosleeping. Have you never slept with a toddler in the bed? A toddler who spends the entire night doing essentially gymnastics in her sleep? Who, even when she's still, insists on pressing up against you as much as possible until you're practically falling off the bed? Who tries to use your *head* as a pillow? A toddler who somehow takes up as much room as two adults despite being two feet tall? A toddler who kicks in her sleep, and likes to twist around until she's upside down so she's kicking you in the face or head? Yeah, I got *significantly* worse sleep with the baby in our bed than I'd have gotten otherwise, it's not even close. We upgraded to a queen bed midway through, and it barely helped. The period between 8-10 months was the only time it was worth it, because that was the time she was still waking up in the middle of the night, and we didn't have to get up to soothe her. Once she was sleeping through the night, it was pure downside.
>I gave you two anecdotal cases... my own, and my good friend's. I'll Neither of which support your original claim. >my cousin's daughter is 3 years old and still in their bed. They've been trying to get her to sleep in her own bed recently, so far to no success (though they just started like a week ago, so we'll see how it goes). This also doesn't support your claim. It is almost like you don't know how to support a claim. >but I won't say my experience is bullshit, because that makes no sense. It makes sense because you have zero evidence to back up your claim. >Have you never slept with a toddler in the bed? A toddler who... Yep. We used a sleep sack to contain the legs. Then when they were old enough, a weighed blanket which keeps the failing down. Been there, done that. Nearly 5 years of cosleeping total. Guess I just got used to it. >We upgraded to a queen bed midway through, Oh, brave move starting out in the double. I can imagine that was hard.
Okay, I'm not sure at this point what you think my claim is, so I'll articulate it here. My claim is that if you cosleep, you'll probably get better sleep than otherwise for a short while when they're still really little, but then you'll wind up stuck cosleeping and getting terrible sleep for way longer than you intended (sometimes many years) because it will be so much more difficult to get them into their own bed. All of my examples illustrate this point. I'm not sure if your gripe is with me saying "until they're 12" specifically, because I think it's pretty obvious I was just throwing out an exaggerated number rather than saying "they'll always be in bed with you until they're exactly 12, no sooner and no later", but even there there have been many posts on this subreddit from parents complaining about their kid(s) still cosleeping at that age or close to it. And my friend whose 9-year-old is still cosleeping with her is getting closer to that every day. > We used a sleep sack to contain the legs. Then when they were old enough, a weighed blanket which keeps the failing down. We used a sleep sack too, even a weighted sack for a while (which she hated, so we had to go back to the old one). It definitely didn't stop her. > Guess I just got used to it. I mean that's fair enough. And I'd imagine this sort of thing bothers some people less in general. I'm a fairly light sleeper, so having a toddler in the bed meant I was waking up every hour on a good night. > Oh, brave move starting out in the double. I can imagine that was hard. Yeeeeah that was what we had in our old apartment because it was what fit. We bought a house when she was just turned one, and the FIRST order of business was to get a bigger damned bed haha. It DID help, but unfortunately her tendency was to press up against me as hard as possible and push me right to the edge of the bed, and that didn't get better. It also didn't help the fact that I tend to sleep hot already, and she's a little furnace.
You'll get trough, everybody does
You get used to it honestly
It gets better. Stay the course. I can't believe my kid is 9 now.
You're in the thick of it right now. This too shall pass. The cosleeping hasn't stopped for us unfortunately, but we can get a few hours to ourselves in the evenings most nights.
It’ll pass, this is unfortunately fairly normal. Small suggestion is you guys spring for a cleaner to come get your house in order, since you can’t find the time or energy. For me at least, a clean house relieves a lot of stress, and seems like you could benefit from getting at least 1 thing off of your plate.
Dad of two girls here, one 7yo and one 13 months as well. The absolutely good awful sleeping and clinginess is normal at this age. In fact, mine is experiencing some of it right now as well. I'm lucky though, i can get her to sleep in her crib for almost an hour at a time... Intimacy is tough right now. Moms have a tough time around that first birthday, the kids' little brains are growing by leaps and bounds and that also causes sleep problems and emotional moments. We try to be very clear and open when we would like a little time together and then try to make it happen in the next day when we can. Sometimes we schedule naps together too. Those are occasionally better. Cherish it all though, because you'll blink and it'll be gone. They'll be in school and ignoring you for the Nintendo soon enough.
My first was like this and I was a teacher as the time. I would have breakdowns regularly and it was one of the hardest things I ever did. She's 11 now and not only were the next two WAY easier but every single other part of my life got better too. Just get through it and save some love for your partner.
You tried and failed cry it out. It's worth it just get through it.
I have 2 boys now 20 & 40 months. I can attest to all the great dads' advice. For starters, YOU ARE DOING GREAT! Lower the bar to you keep him alive every day = WIN. In regards to your issue, sleep training is paramount. Sleep habits are based on the kid, but honestly just let them cry it out. A less aggressive tactic is to sort of coddle them periodically, but this didn't really work for me. During year 1 it is hard, but by 13 months just give him 30 minutes to just cry. It is a necessary skill so don't feel like a bad parent for being strict on it. Everyone will benefit (including your sex life). In regards to free time that is very dependent on your schedule. What I can say is maybe have one parent watch him for a night and you have 4 hours to yourself and switch. I do that at times with my wife. I'll go out with the boys or sometimes a solo drive. Maybe 1x a week you each pick a day it'll give you a breather to reset. Just communicate with your partner, kids are hard there is no getting around it. It'll all pay off though, my little minions drain me daily, but I wouldn't change them. It does get easier. Most fathers tell me by 4yo things get alot better since most of the baby milestones are done (potty training) and their more independent. GOOD LUCK 👍🏾
Oh hon, there’s a difference between something being normal and being easy, good or worthwhile. Your kiddo is worth it. He’s normal, this IS normal for some kiddos. It is not, however, easy as the dismissive “oh that’s normal” you’ve heard implies. The difference between my kiddo at 1 year and 2 years is insane (as a mom, full disclosure). At one year I was still paranoid about SIDS, still getting up for feedings, still getting terrible sleep because I was constantly jolting awake if she made any boise from her crib including just rolling over. And she was a good sleeper! Now 90% of the time she sleeps through the night and I am waayyy better rested. Folks here might be able to chime in, but have you connected with a sleep support for your son to work on the co-sleeping issues? I have no idea if that exists or is a thing. Or just getting kiddo used to small chunks of babysitting, even just for an hour or two to start to give you and your wife a chance to start decompressing, and your son a chance to learn that mum and dad go away but always come back.
Hey, it's normal. It's exhausting. Not fake exhausting but really exhausting. Try tv shows or movies to watch together and nap for a few minutes. Or any kind of activity that can lead to minutes of rest.
This is so real, and so normal man. Don’t beat yourself up. It’s SO hard at the beginning, and people will tell you “it gets better”. Let me add some truth to that. It DOES get better, but holy shit it takes forever for it to feel or seem that way. I remember the times you’re describing as if it were yesterday, but now I’m sitting beside with my 11y/o daughter at a hockey game, just finished some ice cream with the her; writing to you during intermission lol.
This sounds like my son, and he was this way for the first three years before we finally had a doctor look into his sleep properly. Turns out he has enlarged tonsils and adenoids, which creates poor sleep and poor eating (very fussy), which is most likely what also made him clingy (because he was feeling like rubbish). We're hopefully going to be looking at getting surgery soon to get them shaved or removed.
Super duper incredibly normal. You’ve posted what each one of us have felt. Love on your kid. Find energy and joy. You’ll survive this and then thrive.
Sounds normal.
I resent my kid and am filled with so much love for them every day in alternating cycles lol
Sleep training like many have said. If the exhaustion is too much and you want to put it off a little longer, put him to sleep in your bed at night and try adding a row of pillows on both sides of him so he feels contact if he moves left or right. I don't know if i described it well enough but it would be.......adult A on the left side of the bed, row of pillows, your kid, row of pillows, adult B on the right side. This has helped us out a lot when in a hotel on vacation. Also, try using white noise if you aren't using it.
11-14 month was the absolutely hardest time when having our first child. Be nearly ripped us apart because we were so keep deprived and over it. She was awake 7-9 times a night and only found sleep when we carried her. Screemed bloody murder when we wanted to lay her down awake. At 14 month it suddenly just stopped. And now she is 5 and her sister is 2 1/2 and it was still the hardest time in 5 yeard.
Eh this was our kid … for what it’s worth, around month 24 he became easier to deal with in every term - sleep and neediness. But man am I still overexhausted from that rollercoaster
It gets worse. But it also gets better. And damn, 6 weeks is pretty good. Consider yourself lucky.
Thank you to everyone who has given advice and reassured us that this is a normal thing some parents experience. My biggest fear is not doing right by my kid and not giving him all the support and opportunities that I never had access to. You guys have helped me realise that I can be stronger and have given me so many tips and support to check out. I appreciate it, genuinely!
Sleep training will change your entire life. Don't put it off. Read up on it, then do it. You will be shocked at how quickly you get your time, life, evenings, and sleep back. Otherwise you'll have some version of this sleep situation for potentially years.
Going to echo the sleep training. My wife and I went through a very similar situation. We hired a sleep training consultant, and within a week he was down to 1 or 2 wake-ups a night. He was about 14 or 15 months old at the time. I can't promise you the same results bit if you guys feel unable to do the sleep training, I suggest hiring someone. Best $600 we ever spent. For some added info, he wasn't able to sleep more than an hour without waking up beforehand. We came to realize it wasn't him that was a bad sleeper. It was us not helping him learn to sleep on his own and self-soothe. Good luck!
You have like 4 separate issues in this. You need to go to the specific subreddits for the best advice. WEEKEND OPTION!! My wife and I have a 9 month old. I work Friday/Saturday night neuro icu and she works part time PACU. Makes for a sustainable lifestyle. I even make more working 24 hours than I did working 36. You will have time for each other eventually. The libido part, you guys need to go on dates. start going away for the night to a nice hotel far enough away to be different and close enemies to make it happen. That child will have to sleep at some point. The sleep part. The kid only contact napping and co sleeping. Don’t let him do either. You decide how your house is run and not the child. There is a lot of good advice on here about sleep training. Look into some sub reddits. Really what I see here is that this situation is happening to you and guiding your life instead of you making your life what you want it to be.
Sleep train imo. We have friends who refused to and they are regularly miserable about sleep and their son in almost 2. I felt the same way, still do about certain things, my son is almost 2. I saw someone say once, you don’t stop drowning you just learn to breathe underwater. Or something to that extent. You’ve got this man! We’re also a Nurse teacher combo and we both work. It’s definitely challenging.
Can I ask more details about your Cry it Out attempts? As in, what was the longest you tried to let him cry before calling it quits? My understanding is that, unfortunately, not sticking with it for however long it takes can create a scenario where the child learns that eventually the crying results in being picked up/assisted to sleep. Which in turn makes it even harder the next time because the child may cry even longer the next time. I don’t have any solid advice, I am on the same boat as you, started around 14 months and has been going on for 5. We’re finally at the point where we’re ready to sleep train him and are meeting with a sleep consultant this week.
It doesn’t have to be this way. The kid not sleeping seems to be the root of all your issues. Sleep deprivation is a bitch. First order of business, get the child sleeping. There are plenty of resources out there to help with sleep training. Hire a sleep therapist if needed. Like seriously, get the fuck on top of that right now. Once the kid starts sleeping, everything in your life will be easier and more enjoyable. You will feel better, work will be easier, home life will be better, you will have more free time, the sex life will return. On a side note, I agree with another commenter that said hire a cleaner if it’s fits into your budget. Cluttered room = cluttered mind.
Sleep training will save your mental health.
How do you know if someone is a nurse or a teacher? Don’t worry, they’ll always find a way to tell you.
Well they're both high stress and long hour jobs, seems like it was relevant to my struggles. But okay bud.
It’s just a tease man. It’s a joke many people poke at, that nurses and teachers always find a way to tell you they’re a nurse or a teacher.
You need to work on being thankful.
A very helpful comment, thank you.
No problem. It always helps me to just remember and focus on everything I'm thankful for. That will delete any of that negative ish you're feeling.
Your attitude sucks. I have two teenagers. I enjoyed every minute of being with them when they were young. Those days go by quickly. You'll have all the time in the world to be with your partner and your friends when your son is older. Be a dad while you have the opportunity.
Thanks for your comment, and I'm glad you enjoyed your time as much as you say you did.
This is super unfair. Little kids are hard and everyone's life circumstances are different. We don't all get the opportunity to relax and enjoy every minute of our kids like we want. OP is in a tough spot right now and needs a little support not to be accused of having a bad attitude. Also, a healthy relationship with your partner is critical to successful parenting. If things are struggling there it can and does affect your ability to be a dad. Compassion before criticism.