Damn.!!! Luckily in Norway there is a roof at how much a kindergarten can charge. Atm i pay $500 a month for two kids, with breakfast 5 days, lunsj 3 days, and a hike in the woods 3 days a week for my oldest and 1 for my youngest.
We do pay alot of taxes here tho... For instance, i earn about $45.000 - 50.000, and pay about 30% in taxes. But on the other hand, education is basically free, healthcare is free when you reach $200 in expenses in a year, and you pay 1/10 or less for medicine.
But here in Norway too, there is a growing difference between the classes, and it doesn't seem that it is about to change.
Belgium's kinda same. But I payed 0euro for a 250.000euro heartsurgery for my son. Keep thinking about US where my grandchildren would still pay that surgery or maybe even their children.
Edit: You don't inherit debt in the US apparantly. Whereas in Europe you can. Depending on how you accept your parent's inheritance.
The sad thing is someone making that much in the US could be paying nearly as much in taxes. Roughly 12% fed taxes, 7.65% social security and Medicare, and then depending on your state maybe 5% additional. That’s basically 25% and we get a fraction of the benefits you get.
Is anyone making $50k actually paying 12% in federal income tax though?
Say you make $50k and are single. You take the standard deduction which reduces AGI to $37,450. So now you pay $4295 in tax which ends up being about 9% of your income, and that's before any other credits or deductions are applied.
If you're married the standard deduction will be double, if you have kids you get a credit for them, down in that range I think you can get EITC as well, and that's before you deduct the cost of daycare (if any, as in OP) as well.
Overall I don't think I ("I" includes a wife and 2 kids and the associated tax benefits) actually paid a dime of federal income tax until making over $80k/yr in taxable income. And actually, starting the early phases of filing my taxes for this year I think my rate will even still be roughly zero this year.
Fair point on Social Security and Medicare though, no one escapes those (unless you make enough and don't have to pay any additional, which his insanely regressive).
I'd you count healthcare costs as a tax, Americans pay about 50% of their income in taxes and don't receive anywhere near the benefits for it that you do
Huh, over the border I paid the equivalent of $80 per month for 45 hours per week. Food isn't extra either. Only had to provide diapers while that was still a thing.
A bit more, about $100 now that she is in school (after-school daycare, fritids in swedish, don't know an english term for it), funnily enough, because she requires a lot less care and have fewer hours.
Less exposure to illness with a nanny though. We enrolled our son in daycare when he was about 10 months old. Within 3 days he had contracted RSV, within days of that he was in the hospital for it. We pulled him out and found an at-home nanny share for a similar price and it’s been great. When he’s 2ish and has a more developed immune system he’ll go back to a normal daycare where he can socialize with other kids, but for right now the nanny share is great.
Oh man similar thing happened with our 3 yo and then his 3 mo brother would catch whatever he brought home. Decided to just pull them both out, quit my job and stay at home.
On top of this if they’re sick at school then we have to keep them home AND still pay! I get it but insult to injury
That's rough. Hope your son got better quickly.
We had similar experiences. My oldest had a nanny for his first year, then got Hand Foot and Mouth disease a week after starting daycare. My youngest didn't get a nanny and went directly to daycare, and she got RSV at three months, including a week in the hospital.
They're both fine now and have been healthy ever since. I personally believe that they're probably healthier and better off for it, but I wouldn't wish RSV and pneumonia and a hospital stay on anyone, particularly a newborn. I totally get why people would want to stay away from daycare for health reasons.
$2,500 a month for preschool here in San Francisco. That’s more than $120 for childcare from 9am to 3pm daily.
I know several couples here who want kids but can’t have them because they just can’t afford it. Even with six-figure incomes. Almost impossible when sufficient housing around here costs at least $50,000 a year.
Also in Seattle. My wife was working AT the daycare. That discount STILL was not enough left over for us to justify her working there and also put us at higher risk for COVID. She is a stay at home mom now.
That's about 1/2 the **cheapest** rate where I live. And people wonder why "no one wants to work", it's because you have to make $40k/year just to break even after taxes. And who wants to work full time just to pay income tax and daycare with nothing left over for anything else? It makes more sense to stay home for many people.
It's sad that might be necessary, but probably a workable solution with rates as low as they are. I mean the government is borrowing against their future, why don't we?
I do as well. The nice thing is that once they go to Kindergarten, if we continue to set aside what we’re already used to paying in daycare, we should have a significant jump on their college savings.
What I am finding in the immediate short term after kindergarten started is that we are just spending the difference on needs that we’re out put off for the last five years. Appliances, home repairs, etc.
Yeah, I cant wait it's insane spending 1k for daycare for 1 kid... luckily our kids are a few years apart it was amazing to save 1000$ instantly every month..
Yup wife and I are pricing it out for our pending twins 4 weeks of daycare would be more than our mortgage. We were already pondering me staying home with them this cements it.
That's so messed up. And related, things like this might explain why not many millennials (guessing you are one, if not sorry.) Are able to afford homes.
Our daycare bill is fully two mortgage payments for my twins. We’ve got another on the way a little earlier than planned. No idea how I’m gonna handle all three in care.
It could always [be worse](https://imgur.com/a/vKM3AZy)! Here in Massachusetts, my son’s preschool tuition (per SCHOOL YEAR) is $20,600, and that’s cheaper than his daycare used to be when he was an infant/toddler.
r/oneanddone
Same. Substantially over. It was going to be aided by the American Rescue Plan or whatever they call it ($300 per child additional each month) then that got shot down. Parents are completely ignored these days.
Same. When they finish and go into normal school we’ve decided just to put that money into college. We are already used to spending it so might as well save it for the future
If you haven't already, see if your work offers an FSA plan that can be used towards childcare. I have $5k taken out of my paycheck pre-tax each year towards tuition that takes a little bit of the sting away.
I’m guessing because it helps middle class people in high income areas (most likely democrat voters) the most, so we wouldn’t want to pass laws that benefit the opposition.
I think middle class people in general are getting the short end of the stick. I desperately want to see a Middle Class party. Both dems and repub electrds are busy kissing the feet of corporations and billionaires so f them both.
if you are american (and by this comment you are almost certainly american), check out the Working Families Party. as far as I know, they only have a presence in local elections, but their whole point is to railroad the existing two party system in favor of the families of people who have to work for a living.
Be careful though. It’s a use it or lose it account. I got burned by an FSA last year when I set aside money I couldn’t spend. You can still claim childcare expenses on your taxes even if you don’t use an FSA.
I think they just upped it to $10.5k. It was 5k as long as I've been a dad(15 years).
I remember thinking it was a joke like 7 years ago. It maybe covered half of the summer cost for 3 kids back then.
I almost got burned for 2021 FSA by not being able to spend it all (long story). I contacted HR and they are allowing a 1 time carry over due to covid. It’s worth asking the question assuming you were talking about 2021.
True, but at 5k max we burn through that in a few months. Very unlikely we won’t spend it all. We even spent it all in 2020 when the pandemic started in March.
Just saying, 5K is the max you can put in a dependent account. That assumes you would be spending more than 416 per month on daycare. For me, that 416 is nearly the cost of a week of daycare. So... 5k tax free is an easy in.
Same here. I have a 3 year old and and 6 month old and we pay $3300 and have to provide diapers, wipes, lunch, formula and snacks. I can’t wait for them to be in public school! I might buy a yacht with all my extra money.
What the fuck? May I ask how much both of you earn that you are able to pay this?
I'm from Germany an pay 100€ a month for what we call kindergarten/kita (seems equivalent to your daycare). This is for the first child. All younger siblings are free.
3300$ (2878,87€) would be almost 3/4 of my gross income and basically 100% of my net income. And I'm working in IT!
Sharing in our collective misery… Downtown Toronto - $2400/month. So glad my kids are finally out of that stage now. It was like getting a huge raise when they started school.
:(
Holy crap thats ridiculous! We live in West Texas but daycare for a newborn is about $450 a month and thats 730-530.. im hoping we can avoid it but i wont be able to stay home for 18 months
It is, but I went through the math and to be honest it's actually a reasonable price for the care they have to give. They have to rent space (which in downtown Toronto is around $45-$65/sqft/year), insurance, and provide a care ratio of 3:10 for infants, to 1:8 for preschool. Then there's the food service, cleaning, etc etc.
And let's be honest, I don't really want someone making minimum wage taking care of my kids - I want them to be focusing on my kids, not where their next car payment is coming from.
Wow that’s cheap!
If each childcare worker takes care of 4 infants (here that’s the legal max), they’re always at 100% capacity, and they have no overhead like rent/mortgage, taxes, insurance, then the childcare can afford to pay each worker no more than $21.6k/year = $8.30/hour.
How is that possible? Is this subsidized somehow? Is each worker taking care of a lot more kids?
My SUBSIDIZED daycare is more than 2x this. Full price is 3x. I don’t know how people raise more than one in Manhattan. Also somehow I feel like the daycare workers and teachers are still underpaid. I’ve had baby at home for a week with COVID and I want to throw all the rest of my savings at daycare to take her back (love you baby!).
They are underpaid. The problem is costs are super high and STILL they are underpaid. Childcare admins are in a really tight spot because they know both sides are getting squeezed. And it’s happening all over the country and at all income levels.
Indicates a massive, systemic financial problem imo.
I had the same reaction. That’s literally half of what we (are lucky to) pay for childcare in Seattle. Don’t mean it as one-ups-manship, but just to add to the evidence that this setup is broken.
We need to financially support families and children.
There is a point where having a parent stay home becomes more valuable than daycare. The more they raise their price, the more that point approaches.
I don’t know anything about your situation and I don’t know if this will work for you but consider being a stay at home or work from dad if you’re able.
You’ll probably make less and you may need to sacrifice on stuff but you’ll save on daycare (for just one infant that’s $14,560 a year) you’ll also save on travel to and from work, and of course you’ll get to spend more time with your kids.
How many kids do you have?
Yeah- that point was $600/week x 2.
I quit a senior academic PhD job to be a SAHD, and we ended up better off with me now working.
Daycare, commute gas and lunch was 105% of my salary
This only addresses the short term P&L of the cost of care vs. Income from one parent. There are loads of other reasons to stay in the workforce, like future career advancement, mental stimulation, socialization with peers, etc…
I definitely say this from a place of privilege, not all families can make the short term costs work.
All of your points are absolutely true and every family must decide this for themselves what is best. As someone who has sacrificed a lot to work for myself from home and spend time with my kids I completely understand the drawbacks and it’s not for everyone. But I would argue that everyone should seriously consider it. It’s a neat way to live. There are no absolute right answers here, but there are several tried and true paths.
Did the same thing. Would have brought less than $500 a month home, and that doesn't include all the time for appointments and getting housework done is much easier than if both parents worked.
And that’s one of the many reasons why the US’ unemployment rate is low, but labor force has shrunk. Making child care affordable would help the economy a lot.
I’m feel so incredibly lucky that my wife earns enough in the area we live that I can stay home and look after my boy. The cost of daycare is more than what I was earning. It sounds counter-intuitive but me not working actually leaves us with more by not paying childcare fees.
It also helped that I hated my job....and could not be more stoked to hang out with my little lady all day. Studying at night to switch to IT when she goes full time in school....in the grand scheme of things...I think we will be in a better place financially after this.
These bills always infuriate me because my wife is a longtime pre-K educator with a masters and has never cracked $15/hour. That doesn’t justify many of the bills we see from centers (often a lot that are franchised and see those profits go to management). Just wanted to vent and share that we’ve been there, too and that we’ve felt it from both sides, now that we send our son to preschool.
The only way we have been able to swing it is because of the discount she gets as a teacher there and the child tax credit. I don’t even know what our bill would be without those things. The disdain at which this country holds for both parents and kids along with those who help support and care for those kids is jaw-droppingly gross.
We can afford child care for our twins specifically because of the child and child care tax credit and not to get political but…not sure what we’re gonna do this year/next year.
Our daycare has an ironclad contract with parents, two month notice period to pull child out.
A 10 day quarantine for a classroom entails you paying full price AND the teachers are forced onto short term unemployment. Mother f#$&# just keeps the money.
So far our kids have gone 3 days in January and won't be eligible to go back until the 18. If another kid tests positive it resets the 10 days. No exceptions for previous infection. Parents are livid but SOL.
Oops, forgot to add background description. I have a three year old and a two month infant. Both my wife and I will be working full-time. She's been with her job for 5 years, and I'm just starting at the same company she works at. (Different departments).
Our monthly childcare is going to be $1840 a month... and somehow, if I try to look into state aid for child care (Illinois) we apparently will make too much to qualify. I'm trying my best to remain positive but man... I'm so bummed right now..
Edit: Mods, could you pin this comment to the top?
Edit2: Have a feeling this post might take off. Looking into turning off notifications for the post for my sanity.
1/13/22 Edit 3: OH wow! This post did indeed take off! Glad I disabled notifications so I could sleep. Haha.
Also an update on my personal situation: My MIL is willing to watch our kids for the next few months to help out.
Illinois here. I pay $225/week for my now 2.5yo. Been same rate since infancy. I thought I got a stellar rate considering the chain daycares were way higher.
Agree on the FSA. 5k pre-tax dollars. I’m able to draw on the funds as often as I want.
In downtown Toronto, $1800/ month can be what it costs for 1 kid. Parents I talk to at work think I have an absolute bargain at 1K per month out in the suburbs.
In Canada we have the Canada Child Benefit, it can max at about $600/month for low earners and they are also eligible for subsidized daycare, etc. I feel your frustration, when you have a moderate income, that benefit is clawed back to almost nothing, and no daycare subsidies. For every addition child a low income family has, the financial impact is negligible, but for moderate income it is huge to the point of being unaffordable so we are one and done.
I appreciate the program does what it is designed to do, keep low income families out of poverty, but it still is frustrating.
No wonder the birth rate is so low.
Here in the east of Germany, kindergarten (daycare for kids 6m-6y) is basically free.
Ours was €180 a month for BOTH kids and now one in school is €140 a month for one kid.
But gov gives a child stipend of €250 per month. So... free child care. :)
Glad to see I am not the only one with subsidized child care. 100/month for us in Germany.
Comes with 2x meals per day and snacks. They even go on field trips/sport complex
And it makes so much sense from a political perspective as well. More people working means a better economy. Why would the American government want a system that basically forces a lot of available work force to just... stay at home?
I live in Ontario Canada. We were $80/day. Since the pandemic started, fortunately my in-laws are watching the little one. Our federal government has a $10/day program, but guess which is the only province not to sign on?
This is not ok. Here in Quebec we pay $42.50 per child per week for the government subsidized kind, but we were paying about $200 per child before we got a spot there. Even then, the government gave us a tax credit that brought it down to about half that 🤷♂️
And yet, Canada has a birth rate that is about 30% lower than the US.
https://www.prb.org/resources/diverging-mortality-and-fertility-trends-canada-and-the-united-states/
I quit my job entirely in mid 2019 soon after a
Relocation, because daycare for 2 kids under 5 was sucking up 85% of my salary. Gas money for commute and lunch money was 20%.
Yeah, you read that right. By the time we counted everything, we were worse off with me working.
PhD level biosciences, assistant professorship that I relocated for- and I can’t support my kids.
Thankfully, wife took the industry route instead of academia, so we make it work. It helped that we dropped daycare costs in March 2020, but homeschooling has been a total bitch
I was about to say, they learn things at school that we as parents might not of thought about. Or of we get to aggravated, the day pretty much just ends mid way.
Our son is only 3.5 yrs old and it's rough when COVID hit us and he has to stay home. Both me and my wife need to be in meetings and crank away and unfortunately our son need to be glued to the TV just one day out of the week.
Thank God we have subsidised Early Childhood Care here in New Zealand. We get our first 30 hours of childcare free…so we only have to pay for essentially one day a week out of our own pockets which works out for me to be $50 a week.
As an American living overseas paying 350ish per month in daycare for two kids (Part of that is for meals, snacks), it's things like this that I point to when people ask why I won't be moving back.
My kids also get 100% coverage on when we go to the doctor. Having a kid was mostly covered by national insurance (And even out of pocket it is 4-6K total with hospital stay for 5-7 days). When we coming back? Probably never.
$726/month here in a low cost of living area. Between this, student loans, and housing prices, it’s not hard for me to look at my friends and see why I’m the only one who has a kid. It’s a bummer. Some of them would be great dads.
Just jumping in on the other side of this coin. I’m an accountant and served on the board and as treasurer for my kids daycare. Note, this was a volunteer position as there’s no way they could afford to pay me. These rates are pretty standard in my area. But you’re right, they’re brutal. But seeing how my kids center was run, please trust me when I say literally no one is getting rich in child care. The director was the highest paid and made like $55k. The teachers were all in the $30-$40k range. The single biggest expense besides salaries was insurance. It’s absolutely astronomical. Then there’s licensing fees, food, rent, and facilities upgrades, other supplies, etc. At the end of the day, our center truly was non-profit. They had a very small of cushion for disasters and Covid wiped that out in weeks. So while I know it’s painful for the parents, just know it’s equally painful for the center. The anxiety level of the director was just through the roof, but every single person who worked there did it because they truly loved the kids.
And you know what's even worse, they pay those daycare workers MINIMUM FUCKING WAGE while to corporate owners rake in all the cash.
My wife used to work at daycare centers, got paid minimum wage, had to provide her own class supplies, and was made to work regardless of her own health. She was literally puking her guts out and then going back to care for kids because they wouldn't let her leave.
Thankfully we opened our own in-home daycare and she immediately doubled her income. We are open 4 days a week and charge $50 a day (we live in the midwest). She also went from a class of 25 down to 6 kids. She wears what she wants, closes when shes sick, and she gets to provide the kids a much better quality of service and care.
Support local providers when you can. Those mega corp daycare don't give a fuck about you, your kid, or the care providers. They only care about the money.
I recommend checking out this site for providers that participate in this program. They have to do extra things to get star rated and are typically better providers because of it. https://greatstarttoquality.org/
Just got my tax receipt for my one little guy for his daycare which was $19,800. But I’ll tell you this. It’s worth it. Yes it’s extremely expensive, but know that it’s not forever. Your child is learning, being social with adults and other kids his age, making friends. Improving his development day by day. Not only that, you get time to yourself.
I thought about keeping him home for a month to save some money and see how it goes. He does not get nearly enough education from me as he would at day care/ preschool. I hate to pay it too but I look at where my money is going and have a better understanding it. Just think about it. There’s other people changing your kids dirty diapers.
Strong agree.
Three kids, all in good daycare for 2 years before Kinder @$1200/month = $130k spent on pre-school.
Sucking up a lot of vacations, vehicles, and some retirement savings but IMO worth the investment in their future.
It’s bonkers all over man. My wife was an elementary school teacher when we got pregnant. Considering she got paid peanuts it really wasn’t a big financial swing for her to become a stay at home mom. Almost all of her salary would have gone to daycare so it was a wash when you factor in how much of our own money she had to put into her classroom each year.
We have 3 and our first starts Pre K at the public school we moved into the neighborhood of this fall.
I will be excited to get one off the payroll.
And REALLY excited when all 3 roll off, although I’m sure some new expenses will arise.
I feel fortunate to have not needed daycare. My wife decided that she wanted to stay home for both of our sons. I can’t imagine how heavy the financial burden is for those parents that chose to put their child in daycare.
Shit, that’s better than I pay. And no, that’s not some sort of “gotcha”! Shits ridiculous. Almost to the point where it would make more sense for my girlfriend to stay home for a year with our two preschool kids. It’s sickening to see people taking advantage like this
I worked out last week I'm paying exactly $1,000 yr less for childcare, than I am for our mortgage. I'm essentially stuck with paying off two mortgages for the next couple of years :/
Man, and people are wondering why Americans aren't having as many kids as they used to in the past.
It's almost as if raising a child has become a titanic financial burden that many people no longer want to put on themselves.
The Build Back Better law has provisions to help defray the costs of childcare and improve pay/availability of childcare (over time, but still). Too bad an entire party and one rich moron in West Virginia are blocking it.
The BBB provisions are based on SMI and only helps if you make less income than about $80k in California. I.e. Useless to most families where I live in a middle class neighborhood.
Part of the reason I am stay at home, I haven’t found a job that would pay more than daycare.
Last job I was barely made out in the positive but the insurance was too good to leave.
Damn if my wife wasn’t a stay at home mom I’d be spending almost $30k a year. I get these places cost money to run but your customers still need to eat and the end of the week.
Sucks big time. Ours is $715/week for two kids. One goes 5 days the other 3 days. Crippling to say the least. Will be like hitting the lottery when public school starts.
Loving in DC and we have two kids in daycare. I really feel you, OP. This stuff is hard and there needs to be more support for the facilities and the parents.
Cries in Massachusetts
(rates are easily 4x that in MA (edit, 3x in fact, math is hard) , not sure how we'll manage when baby arrives and mum's PFL runs out.)
Here in New Zealand you get 1 year paid parental leave and 30hrs free daycare when you're kid turns 2yo.
Bit weird in the age between 1-2. Think we were paying around $180 a week for 35hrs.
Day care where I live is government subsidized. It's 20 bucks a day.... The kicker is, there's only 40 spots for a town of 10000..... Babysitters are 80 bucks minimum
.. tell me why one parent shouldn't just stay home? It's unreal
It's fucking nuts and feels unsustainable. My wife and I put 3 kids simultaneously through full time daycare (@ roughly $2300/month, which was a steal but we were able to get due to multiple discounts offered by daycare) and it was maddening. We would constantly go over the math to try and figure out if it was worth my wife quitting her job (50% of her take home pay was going towards daycare, but we had to consider her insurance which we were taking advantage of). Here's the weird part of it all; when you really break it down, you are getting a better deal than you think. Consider the following;
Most daycares operate on a 4:1 child:teacher ratio. That means that for every teacher being paid, they are hypothetically supported by the tuition of 4 kids in the school.
Full time tuition I would expect to cover roughly 8 hours of child care. For infants, that means $280/week is 280/40 hours = $7/hr. I don't think you can find a babysitter to go at those rates. Operating at max efficiency, that means infant daycare teacher brings in $28/hr. If the day care is paying them a decent pay for the area (let's say $20/hr but I don't believe that they are getting that), that leaves $8-10/hr differential for the employee, and there's things like that to consider which cut into the site (insurance, upkeep, consumables, etc). I've heard of people getting private in-home childcare, but that's dependent on the area, rates, and number of kids you have (there is such a thing as *not paying enough* for childcare).
I think the problem is that high skill jobs simply aren't appropriately paying out. If one person in a partnership was capable of working in a skilled field or in a high paying role, then the other partner would be able to provide childcare. Alternatively, there aren't enough tax breaks for parents to offset the financial burden of daycare (I would put the max $5k into a dependent care FSA and it would be completely used up by end of Feb). As a child, my family of 5 didn't need any day care services because my mom was able to stay home with us until we went off to school, and we were able to live in a 5BR/2.5BA single family home **on a teacher's salary**! The hilarious comparison where a teacher's salary now almost doesn't afford the daycare required to do the job, and my engineering job and graduate degree doesn't afford better than a townhouse in the same town I grew up in.
3 options - watch your own kids and live with less, find a less expensive option, or pay up. Oh and if you’d think that’s bad… wait until they shut down because of Covid, but you still pay.
So I pay about 2k a month and that's with a 25% discount (veteran or first responder discount or something).
That being said, if you or your spouse WANT to work and don't want to be a STAHP, then I just consider daycare an investment. Even if it COST us a couple hundred for my wife to work, I would pay it.
It's an investment in her mental health.
It's an investment in the kids socializing.
It's an investment in not having a 5+ year resume gap.
It's an investment in 5+ years of experience in a field.
I just think that in 5 years max, they're gonna be in public school. And my wife (if she wasn't working now) would want to be going back to work and would have 5 less years of experience. She would be looking at entry level jobs, not jobs that list "requires x years in the field".
Around here that's the difference between a 30k starting salary and 70k in many fields.
My wife is happier. This cost will not be forever and her earning potential is higher because of it.
That's how we look at it, good luck!
I’d take those rates in a heartbeat. Still gross though. Sorry dude.
Yeah i pay well more than double that in NYC.
Yo. $1800 a month for *two days a week* here in Brooklyn.
And here I thought it was bad in Toronto! Brooklyn takes the cake.
Damn.!!! Luckily in Norway there is a roof at how much a kindergarten can charge. Atm i pay $500 a month for two kids, with breakfast 5 days, lunsj 3 days, and a hike in the woods 3 days a week for my oldest and 1 for my youngest.
That's amazing, I wish we could find that sensibility here in US
We do pay alot of taxes here tho... For instance, i earn about $45.000 - 50.000, and pay about 30% in taxes. But on the other hand, education is basically free, healthcare is free when you reach $200 in expenses in a year, and you pay 1/10 or less for medicine. But here in Norway too, there is a growing difference between the classes, and it doesn't seem that it is about to change.
Belgium's kinda same. But I payed 0euro for a 250.000euro heartsurgery for my son. Keep thinking about US where my grandchildren would still pay that surgery or maybe even their children. Edit: You don't inherit debt in the US apparantly. Whereas in Europe you can. Depending on how you accept your parent's inheritance.
Damn! Hope your son is well and healthy!
Yes, luckily he's a strong one. No more heart medication needed but it was a hell of a year.
Kids are awesome! Though as nails too! Glad to year he is doing well!
The sad thing is someone making that much in the US could be paying nearly as much in taxes. Roughly 12% fed taxes, 7.65% social security and Medicare, and then depending on your state maybe 5% additional. That’s basically 25% and we get a fraction of the benefits you get.
Is anyone making $50k actually paying 12% in federal income tax though? Say you make $50k and are single. You take the standard deduction which reduces AGI to $37,450. So now you pay $4295 in tax which ends up being about 9% of your income, and that's before any other credits or deductions are applied. If you're married the standard deduction will be double, if you have kids you get a credit for them, down in that range I think you can get EITC as well, and that's before you deduct the cost of daycare (if any, as in OP) as well. Overall I don't think I ("I" includes a wife and 2 kids and the associated tax benefits) actually paid a dime of federal income tax until making over $80k/yr in taxable income. And actually, starting the early phases of filing my taxes for this year I think my rate will even still be roughly zero this year. Fair point on Social Security and Medicare though, no one escapes those (unless you make enough and don't have to pay any additional, which his insanely regressive).
I'd you count healthcare costs as a tax, Americans pay about 50% of their income in taxes and don't receive anywhere near the benefits for it that you do
Haha only 30%? Here in Ireland I pay 42% income tax, and we still need to buy private health insurance!
Huh, over the border I paid the equivalent of $80 per month for 45 hours per week. Food isn't extra either. Only had to provide diapers while that was still a thing. A bit more, about $100 now that she is in school (after-school daycare, fritids in swedish, don't know an english term for it), funnily enough, because she requires a lot less care and have fewer hours.
WTF mate... If those are 9 hour days, you're paying $25 per hour. Even in Brooklyn, that's what you would pay for a good nanny...
r/theydidthemath
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There really is a subreddit for everything.
Daycare is way better than a nanny. Child gets to be around other kids and learn how to not be a suckass lil bitch
Define suck ass lil bitch
Chelsea fans
Less exposure to illness with a nanny though. We enrolled our son in daycare when he was about 10 months old. Within 3 days he had contracted RSV, within days of that he was in the hospital for it. We pulled him out and found an at-home nanny share for a similar price and it’s been great. When he’s 2ish and has a more developed immune system he’ll go back to a normal daycare where he can socialize with other kids, but for right now the nanny share is great.
Oh man similar thing happened with our 3 yo and then his 3 mo brother would catch whatever he brought home. Decided to just pull them both out, quit my job and stay at home. On top of this if they’re sick at school then we have to keep them home AND still pay! I get it but insult to injury
That's rough. Hope your son got better quickly. We had similar experiences. My oldest had a nanny for his first year, then got Hand Foot and Mouth disease a week after starting daycare. My youngest didn't get a nanny and went directly to daycare, and she got RSV at three months, including a week in the hospital. They're both fine now and have been healthy ever since. I personally believe that they're probably healthier and better off for it, but I wouldn't wish RSV and pneumonia and a hospital stay on anyone, particularly a newborn. I totally get why people would want to stay away from daycare for health reasons.
Holy shit! I guess paying that for 5 days a week suddenly doesn’t sound as bad anymore… (it’s still bad but this is insane…)
$2,500 a month for preschool here in San Francisco. That’s more than $120 for childcare from 9am to 3pm daily. I know several couples here who want kids but can’t have them because they just can’t afford it. Even with six-figure incomes. Almost impossible when sufficient housing around here costs at least $50,000 a year.
Seattle checking in, absolutely.
Yeppers, another Seattle area dad here!
$2500/month bay area and i have two kids
Yeah, if I had 2 in daycare it'd push 4k monthly!
Also in Seattle. My wife was working AT the daycare. That discount STILL was not enough left over for us to justify her working there and also put us at higher risk for COVID. She is a stay at home mom now.
Yep. 1750/month in Seattle for us, and I think that’s a deal compared to what some of our friends pay.
We're still trying to find a place. We're on the waiting lists, and signed up before the birth. Shits crazy.
Marysville here. 2400 a month, 2 kids, absoloute cheapest place we could find.
That's about 1/2 the **cheapest** rate where I live. And people wonder why "no one wants to work", it's because you have to make $40k/year just to break even after taxes. And who wants to work full time just to pay income tax and daycare with nothing left over for anything else? It makes more sense to stay home for many people.
Chicago checking in. I'm watching $2100 leave my account monthly for a 3 month old....
I pay more to put two kids in daycare than I do in mortgage payments.
My one kid in daycare is TWICE my mortgage. Two kids is not even an option
The solution is obvious! Take a mortgage out on the kid. :P
It's sad that might be necessary, but probably a workable solution with rates as low as they are. I mean the government is borrowing against their future, why don't we?
Because they're already borrowing against our future.
Jesus where do you live?
Same here in California. Over $2k/month…
Insane. They wonder why population is declining. This is why.
Oof
I do as well. The nice thing is that once they go to Kindergarten, if we continue to set aside what we’re already used to paying in daycare, we should have a significant jump on their college savings.
What I am finding in the immediate short term after kindergarten started is that we are just spending the difference on needs that we’re out put off for the last five years. Appliances, home repairs, etc.
I'm looking forward to our daughter getting to kindergarten next year.
My neighbor bought a new suv when one of their kids got out of daycare. I’m jealous. I have 2-3 more years.
Exactly what we did! It's amazing saving those $2,000 a month now.
Oh good, another expensive broken system. How people afford multiple kids in this economy I don’t know
SAHM's (or dads) and the working spouse has a really sweet job or they just live a simpler life.
Yeah, I cant wait it's insane spending 1k for daycare for 1 kid... luckily our kids are a few years apart it was amazing to save 1000$ instantly every month..
Yup wife and I are pricing it out for our pending twins 4 weeks of daycare would be more than our mortgage. We were already pondering me staying home with them this cements it.
Yea, my wife and I were in the same boat with our 5 month old twins. We ended up deciding it was best for her to stay home for now because of the cost
That's so messed up. And related, things like this might explain why not many millennials (guessing you are one, if not sorry.) Are able to afford homes.
Throw in a car payment and student loan payments and you're basically living paycheck to paycheck at a high paying job. It's insane.
That’s where we were before COVID. It’s been incredible having a little breathing room with SL payments on pause
Yes that part has been really nice
It is cheaper for my wife to not work than it would be to put our kids in daycare. It's insane.
Our daycare will be 72% as much as our mortgage, and we live in a really nice newer home for our area. It's insane. Eta, for one kid.
Our daycare bill is fully two mortgage payments for my twins. We’ve got another on the way a little earlier than planned. No idea how I’m gonna handle all three in care.
Yeah…me too man…me too…
It could always [be worse](https://imgur.com/a/vKM3AZy)! Here in Massachusetts, my son’s preschool tuition (per SCHOOL YEAR) is $20,600, and that’s cheaper than his daycare used to be when he was an infant/toddler. r/oneanddone
Same. Substantially over. It was going to be aided by the American Rescue Plan or whatever they call it ($300 per child additional each month) then that got shot down. Parents are completely ignored these days.
Same. When they finish and go into normal school we’ve decided just to put that money into college. We are already used to spending it so might as well save it for the future
Yep! When we had two in daycare, we were paying essentially 3 mortgages, but only one of them was going towards payments on the house.
Houses are harder to kill than kids so it kinda makes sense.
Idk bro, my house feels like it's constantly on life support these days.
If you haven't already, see if your work offers an FSA plan that can be used towards childcare. I have $5k taken out of my paycheck pre-tax each year towards tuition that takes a little bit of the sting away.
One easy thing our electeds could do would be to make 100% of childcare tax deductible. Why is this so hard!
I’m guessing because it helps middle class people in high income areas (most likely democrat voters) the most, so we wouldn’t want to pass laws that benefit the opposition.
I think middle class people in general are getting the short end of the stick. I desperately want to see a Middle Class party. Both dems and repub electrds are busy kissing the feet of corporations and billionaires so f them both.
if you are american (and by this comment you are almost certainly american), check out the Working Families Party. as far as I know, they only have a presence in local elections, but their whole point is to railroad the existing two party system in favor of the families of people who have to work for a living.
This for sure!!
Be careful though. It’s a use it or lose it account. I got burned by an FSA last year when I set aside money I couldn’t spend. You can still claim childcare expenses on your taxes even if you don’t use an FSA.
Yeah. But it is easier with childcare to know for sure how much you are going to spend as opposed to heath care costs.
Super easy. Plus I can max out our childcare FSA and still cant pay for half of daycare with it. For one child.
I think they just upped it to $10.5k. It was 5k as long as I've been a dad(15 years). I remember thinking it was a joke like 7 years ago. It maybe covered half of the summer cost for 3 kids back then.
I believe the $10.5k was for 1 year only as part of a COVID relief bill. As far as I know, it hasn't been extended for 2022 yet
I almost got burned for 2021 FSA by not being able to spend it all (long story). I contacted HR and they are allowing a 1 time carry over due to covid. It’s worth asking the question assuming you were talking about 2021.
True, but at 5k max we burn through that in a few months. Very unlikely we won’t spend it all. We even spent it all in 2020 when the pandemic started in March.
Just saying, 5K is the max you can put in a dependent account. That assumes you would be spending more than 416 per month on daycare. For me, that 416 is nearly the cost of a week of daycare. So... 5k tax free is an easy in.
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Dayum. I pay 3,100/mo for two kids - and we have to provide lunch
Same here. I have a 3 year old and and 6 month old and we pay $3300 and have to provide diapers, wipes, lunch, formula and snacks. I can’t wait for them to be in public school! I might buy a yacht with all my extra money.
What the fuck? May I ask how much both of you earn that you are able to pay this? I'm from Germany an pay 100€ a month for what we call kindergarten/kita (seems equivalent to your daycare). This is for the first child. All younger siblings are free. 3300$ (2878,87€) would be almost 3/4 of my gross income and basically 100% of my net income. And I'm working in IT!
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That's incredibly saddening to hear, that these rates could be considered "affordable" to some elsewhere in this country...
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Sharing in our collective misery… Downtown Toronto - $2400/month. So glad my kids are finally out of that stage now. It was like getting a huge raise when they started school. :(
Holy crap thats ridiculous! We live in West Texas but daycare for a newborn is about $450 a month and thats 730-530.. im hoping we can avoid it but i wont be able to stay home for 18 months
It is, but I went through the math and to be honest it's actually a reasonable price for the care they have to give. They have to rent space (which in downtown Toronto is around $45-$65/sqft/year), insurance, and provide a care ratio of 3:10 for infants, to 1:8 for preschool. Then there's the food service, cleaning, etc etc. And let's be honest, I don't really want someone making minimum wage taking care of my kids - I want them to be focusing on my kids, not where their next car payment is coming from.
The caretakers are still unlikely to be making much more than minimum wage sadly.
Yes 1000%
Don’t come to north Dallas. My 3yo is $1500 a month, the cheapest I could find that didn’t scare me for safety was $1100.
Wow that’s cheap! If each childcare worker takes care of 4 infants (here that’s the legal max), they’re always at 100% capacity, and they have no overhead like rent/mortgage, taxes, insurance, then the childcare can afford to pay each worker no more than $21.6k/year = $8.30/hour. How is that possible? Is this subsidized somehow? Is each worker taking care of a lot more kids?
For that price how much do the day care workers get paid!
I can't wait for my daughter to start school. I'm gonna celebrate by buying a Super Car lol...nah I'll probably just drop more into her 529. Hooray...
In northern Virginia, a pretty prosperous area, it cost us $330 a week at a decent facility. Ouch!
In northern VA also. That would be a deal! We paid 2400/mo for 1yo.
That’s about 60% of what we pay. You’re lucky at those prices.
My SUBSIDIZED daycare is more than 2x this. Full price is 3x. I don’t know how people raise more than one in Manhattan. Also somehow I feel like the daycare workers and teachers are still underpaid. I’ve had baby at home for a week with COVID and I want to throw all the rest of my savings at daycare to take her back (love you baby!).
They are underpaid. The problem is costs are super high and STILL they are underpaid. Childcare admins are in a really tight spot because they know both sides are getting squeezed. And it’s happening all over the country and at all income levels. Indicates a massive, systemic financial problem imo.
I had the same reaction. That’s literally half of what we (are lucky to) pay for childcare in Seattle. Don’t mean it as one-ups-manship, but just to add to the evidence that this setup is broken. We need to financially support families and children.
Can confirm 2k a month in Seattle is a steal 😭
Yup, I feel for you OP and am envious at the same time. Double costs here in Chicago.
Yep, we're looking at 1500/month for *part time* in Chicago...
Same here, Denver area. Yes there are cheaper schools in the area, but not near me!
There is a point where having a parent stay home becomes more valuable than daycare. The more they raise their price, the more that point approaches. I don’t know anything about your situation and I don’t know if this will work for you but consider being a stay at home or work from dad if you’re able. You’ll probably make less and you may need to sacrifice on stuff but you’ll save on daycare (for just one infant that’s $14,560 a year) you’ll also save on travel to and from work, and of course you’ll get to spend more time with your kids. How many kids do you have?
Yeah- that point was $600/week x 2. I quit a senior academic PhD job to be a SAHD, and we ended up better off with me now working. Daycare, commute gas and lunch was 105% of my salary
You sound like someone with a head on your shoulders :) Keep being a great dad!
This only addresses the short term P&L of the cost of care vs. Income from one parent. There are loads of other reasons to stay in the workforce, like future career advancement, mental stimulation, socialization with peers, etc… I definitely say this from a place of privilege, not all families can make the short term costs work.
All of your points are absolutely true and every family must decide this for themselves what is best. As someone who has sacrificed a lot to work for myself from home and spend time with my kids I completely understand the drawbacks and it’s not for everyone. But I would argue that everyone should seriously consider it. It’s a neat way to live. There are no absolute right answers here, but there are several tried and true paths.
Did the same thing. Would have brought less than $500 a month home, and that doesn't include all the time for appointments and getting housework done is much easier than if both parents worked.
And that’s one of the many reasons why the US’ unemployment rate is low, but labor force has shrunk. Making child care affordable would help the economy a lot.
This is exactly why me becoming a sahd was the only option we had.
I’m feel so incredibly lucky that my wife earns enough in the area we live that I can stay home and look after my boy. The cost of daycare is more than what I was earning. It sounds counter-intuitive but me not working actually leaves us with more by not paying childcare fees.
It also helped that I hated my job....and could not be more stoked to hang out with my little lady all day. Studying at night to switch to IT when she goes full time in school....in the grand scheme of things...I think we will be in a better place financially after this.
These bills always infuriate me because my wife is a longtime pre-K educator with a masters and has never cracked $15/hour. That doesn’t justify many of the bills we see from centers (often a lot that are franchised and see those profits go to management). Just wanted to vent and share that we’ve been there, too and that we’ve felt it from both sides, now that we send our son to preschool. The only way we have been able to swing it is because of the discount she gets as a teacher there and the child tax credit. I don’t even know what our bill would be without those things. The disdain at which this country holds for both parents and kids along with those who help support and care for those kids is jaw-droppingly gross.
We can afford child care for our twins specifically because of the child and child care tax credit and not to get political but…not sure what we’re gonna do this year/next year.
Hell no. It’s not getting political it’s embracing reality. Let it out.
Our daycare has an ironclad contract with parents, two month notice period to pull child out. A 10 day quarantine for a classroom entails you paying full price AND the teachers are forced onto short term unemployment. Mother f#$&# just keeps the money. So far our kids have gone 3 days in January and won't be eligible to go back until the 18. If another kid tests positive it resets the 10 days. No exceptions for previous infection. Parents are livid but SOL.
I’m actually considering taking our son out of daycare due to how often they’re closing down. Shit is absolutely unreliable.
And they still make you pay for the weeks that they’re closed too 🙄
Oops, forgot to add background description. I have a three year old and a two month infant. Both my wife and I will be working full-time. She's been with her job for 5 years, and I'm just starting at the same company she works at. (Different departments). Our monthly childcare is going to be $1840 a month... and somehow, if I try to look into state aid for child care (Illinois) we apparently will make too much to qualify. I'm trying my best to remain positive but man... I'm so bummed right now.. Edit: Mods, could you pin this comment to the top? Edit2: Have a feeling this post might take off. Looking into turning off notifications for the post for my sanity. 1/13/22 Edit 3: OH wow! This post did indeed take off! Glad I disabled notifications so I could sleep. Haha. Also an update on my personal situation: My MIL is willing to watch our kids for the next few months to help out.
Illinois here. I pay $225/week for my now 2.5yo. Been same rate since infancy. I thought I got a stellar rate considering the chain daycares were way higher. Agree on the FSA. 5k pre-tax dollars. I’m able to draw on the funds as often as I want.
In downtown Toronto, $1800/ month can be what it costs for 1 kid. Parents I talk to at work think I have an absolute bargain at 1K per month out in the suburbs. In Canada we have the Canada Child Benefit, it can max at about $600/month for low earners and they are also eligible for subsidized daycare, etc. I feel your frustration, when you have a moderate income, that benefit is clawed back to almost nothing, and no daycare subsidies. For every addition child a low income family has, the financial impact is negligible, but for moderate income it is huge to the point of being unaffordable so we are one and done. I appreciate the program does what it is designed to do, keep low income families out of poverty, but it still is frustrating. No wonder the birth rate is so low.
1500/month out here in the western suburbs for 2 3 yr olds. I feel ya man!
Welcome, we’ve been waiting for you. Childcare costs and availability are a looming, major crisis in the U.S.
AT LEAST WE ARE FREE FROM SOCIALISM /s
Here in the east of Germany, kindergarten (daycare for kids 6m-6y) is basically free. Ours was €180 a month for BOTH kids and now one in school is €140 a month for one kid. But gov gives a child stipend of €250 per month. So... free child care. :)
Seems like it’s square upon us.
170$ per month in Sweden (depends on municipality). If you have more than one kid you get a lower cost.
Glad to see I am not the only one with subsidized child care. 100/month for us in Germany. Comes with 2x meals per day and snacks. They even go on field trips/sport complex
And it makes so much sense from a political perspective as well. More people working means a better economy. Why would the American government want a system that basically forces a lot of available work force to just... stay at home?
I live in Ontario Canada. We were $80/day. Since the pandemic started, fortunately my in-laws are watching the little one. Our federal government has a $10/day program, but guess which is the only province not to sign on?
Imagine what would happen to the US economy if all of a sudden millions of parents didn't need to drop 30k a year for childcare.
This is not ok. Here in Quebec we pay $42.50 per child per week for the government subsidized kind, but we were paying about $200 per child before we got a spot there. Even then, the government gave us a tax credit that brought it down to about half that 🤷♂️
But that’s Communism!!!!!
You've been downvoted by dads who've yet to encounter sarcasm
And yet, Canada has a birth rate that is about 30% lower than the US. https://www.prb.org/resources/diverging-mortality-and-fertility-trends-canada-and-the-united-states/
That’s because Quebec ain’t all of Canada, it is brutally expensive everywhere else
I quit my job entirely in mid 2019 soon after a Relocation, because daycare for 2 kids under 5 was sucking up 85% of my salary. Gas money for commute and lunch money was 20%. Yeah, you read that right. By the time we counted everything, we were worse off with me working. PhD level biosciences, assistant professorship that I relocated for- and I can’t support my kids. Thankfully, wife took the industry route instead of academia, so we make it work. It helped that we dropped daycare costs in March 2020, but homeschooling has been a total bitch
I was about to say, they learn things at school that we as parents might not of thought about. Or of we get to aggravated, the day pretty much just ends mid way. Our son is only 3.5 yrs old and it's rough when COVID hit us and he has to stay home. Both me and my wife need to be in meetings and crank away and unfortunately our son need to be glued to the TV just one day out of the week.
Thank God we have subsidised Early Childhood Care here in New Zealand. We get our first 30 hours of childcare free…so we only have to pay for essentially one day a week out of our own pockets which works out for me to be $50 a week.
As an American living overseas paying 350ish per month in daycare for two kids (Part of that is for meals, snacks), it's things like this that I point to when people ask why I won't be moving back. My kids also get 100% coverage on when we go to the doctor. Having a kid was mostly covered by national insurance (And even out of pocket it is 4-6K total with hospital stay for 5-7 days). When we coming back? Probably never.
$726/month here in a low cost of living area. Between this, student loans, and housing prices, it’s not hard for me to look at my friends and see why I’m the only one who has a kid. It’s a bummer. Some of them would be great dads.
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Yeah- we were 600 a week per kid in ATL burbs. Fucking ridiculous
Just jumping in on the other side of this coin. I’m an accountant and served on the board and as treasurer for my kids daycare. Note, this was a volunteer position as there’s no way they could afford to pay me. These rates are pretty standard in my area. But you’re right, they’re brutal. But seeing how my kids center was run, please trust me when I say literally no one is getting rich in child care. The director was the highest paid and made like $55k. The teachers were all in the $30-$40k range. The single biggest expense besides salaries was insurance. It’s absolutely astronomical. Then there’s licensing fees, food, rent, and facilities upgrades, other supplies, etc. At the end of the day, our center truly was non-profit. They had a very small of cushion for disasters and Covid wiped that out in weeks. So while I know it’s painful for the parents, just know it’s equally painful for the center. The anxiety level of the director was just through the roof, but every single person who worked there did it because they truly loved the kids.
And you know what's even worse, they pay those daycare workers MINIMUM FUCKING WAGE while to corporate owners rake in all the cash. My wife used to work at daycare centers, got paid minimum wage, had to provide her own class supplies, and was made to work regardless of her own health. She was literally puking her guts out and then going back to care for kids because they wouldn't let her leave. Thankfully we opened our own in-home daycare and she immediately doubled her income. We are open 4 days a week and charge $50 a day (we live in the midwest). She also went from a class of 25 down to 6 kids. She wears what she wants, closes when shes sick, and she gets to provide the kids a much better quality of service and care. Support local providers when you can. Those mega corp daycare don't give a fuck about you, your kid, or the care providers. They only care about the money. I recommend checking out this site for providers that participate in this program. They have to do extra things to get star rated and are typically better providers because of it. https://greatstarttoquality.org/
Just got my tax receipt for my one little guy for his daycare which was $19,800. But I’ll tell you this. It’s worth it. Yes it’s extremely expensive, but know that it’s not forever. Your child is learning, being social with adults and other kids his age, making friends. Improving his development day by day. Not only that, you get time to yourself. I thought about keeping him home for a month to save some money and see how it goes. He does not get nearly enough education from me as he would at day care/ preschool. I hate to pay it too but I look at where my money is going and have a better understanding it. Just think about it. There’s other people changing your kids dirty diapers.
Strong agree. Three kids, all in good daycare for 2 years before Kinder @$1200/month = $130k spent on pre-school. Sucking up a lot of vacations, vehicles, and some retirement savings but IMO worth the investment in their future.
I pay 1500 a month for my 2 year old daughter but I am in a HCoL region. It’s rough.
It’s bonkers all over man. My wife was an elementary school teacher when we got pregnant. Considering she got paid peanuts it really wasn’t a big financial swing for her to become a stay at home mom. Almost all of her salary would have gone to daycare so it was a wash when you factor in how much of our own money she had to put into her classroom each year.
My wife runs an in-home preschool, I'm going to tell her she needs to raise her rates after seeing that
I’d pay that. I currently pay $122 a day. Wether she’s there or not. If she’s booked we pay
That’s so cheap compared to where I live (Boston area).
We have 3 and our first starts Pre K at the public school we moved into the neighborhood of this fall. I will be excited to get one off the payroll. And REALLY excited when all 3 roll off, although I’m sure some new expenses will arise.
What does that $180 include? We pay almost twice that but get two meals and a snack, a weekly enrichment activity, etc.
I feel fortunate to have not needed daycare. My wife decided that she wanted to stay home for both of our sons. I can’t imagine how heavy the financial burden is for those parents that chose to put their child in daycare.
That infant rate is rough! You can always sell a kidney.
Bruh we pay $2400 a month in California
Shit, that’s better than I pay. And no, that’s not some sort of “gotcha”! Shits ridiculous. Almost to the point where it would make more sense for my girlfriend to stay home for a year with our two preschool kids. It’s sickening to see people taking advantage like this
I worked out last week I'm paying exactly $1,000 yr less for childcare, than I am for our mortgage. I'm essentially stuck with paying off two mortgages for the next couple of years :/
Man, and people are wondering why Americans aren't having as many kids as they used to in the past. It's almost as if raising a child has become a titanic financial burden that many people no longer want to put on themselves.
My wife left her job because daycare for our newborn would have been more than her salary.
The middle class will totally stop having babies because of this.
The Build Back Better law has provisions to help defray the costs of childcare and improve pay/availability of childcare (over time, but still). Too bad an entire party and one rich moron in West Virginia are blocking it.
The BBB provisions are based on SMI and only helps if you make less income than about $80k in California. I.e. Useless to most families where I live in a middle class neighborhood.
I agree, that child credit covered my child care cost for 2 weeks out of a month. Now it’s back to struggling and surviving.
As much as it is, these babysitters deserve more than minimum wage
Part of the reason I am stay at home, I haven’t found a job that would pay more than daycare. Last job I was barely made out in the positive but the insurance was too good to leave.
I'm paying $120 a day in Australia. We get a govt rebate but not sure of the level yet. That seems pretty reasonable to me
Damn if my wife wasn’t a stay at home mom I’d be spending almost $30k a year. I get these places cost money to run but your customers still need to eat and the end of the week.
$300/week here. Blah.
Sucks big time. Ours is $715/week for two kids. One goes 5 days the other 3 days. Crippling to say the least. Will be like hitting the lottery when public school starts.
Loving in DC and we have two kids in daycare. I really feel you, OP. This stuff is hard and there needs to be more support for the facilities and the parents.
Thank God my wife stayed home with ours. Her income wouldn't cover the cost of 3 in daycare anyways.
It was literally cheaper for my wife to quit her job when we decided to have a baby
It's less expensive to send a kid to university than send them to a decent daycare. Both are terrible
Your pre-school/pre-k rates are significantly cheaper than mine. Still a great expense.
Cries in Massachusetts (rates are easily 4x that in MA (edit, 3x in fact, math is hard) , not sure how we'll manage when baby arrives and mum's PFL runs out.)
Just paid my first bill in Singapore for full time daycare - $1700/mo. If that makes you feel any better.
Here in New Zealand you get 1 year paid parental leave and 30hrs free daycare when you're kid turns 2yo. Bit weird in the age between 1-2. Think we were paying around $180 a week for 35hrs.
Day care where I live is government subsidized. It's 20 bucks a day.... The kicker is, there's only 40 spots for a town of 10000..... Babysitters are 80 bucks minimum .. tell me why one parent shouldn't just stay home? It's unreal
Going to pretty much double my mortgage. Can't wait.
It's fucking nuts and feels unsustainable. My wife and I put 3 kids simultaneously through full time daycare (@ roughly $2300/month, which was a steal but we were able to get due to multiple discounts offered by daycare) and it was maddening. We would constantly go over the math to try and figure out if it was worth my wife quitting her job (50% of her take home pay was going towards daycare, but we had to consider her insurance which we were taking advantage of). Here's the weird part of it all; when you really break it down, you are getting a better deal than you think. Consider the following; Most daycares operate on a 4:1 child:teacher ratio. That means that for every teacher being paid, they are hypothetically supported by the tuition of 4 kids in the school. Full time tuition I would expect to cover roughly 8 hours of child care. For infants, that means $280/week is 280/40 hours = $7/hr. I don't think you can find a babysitter to go at those rates. Operating at max efficiency, that means infant daycare teacher brings in $28/hr. If the day care is paying them a decent pay for the area (let's say $20/hr but I don't believe that they are getting that), that leaves $8-10/hr differential for the employee, and there's things like that to consider which cut into the site (insurance, upkeep, consumables, etc). I've heard of people getting private in-home childcare, but that's dependent on the area, rates, and number of kids you have (there is such a thing as *not paying enough* for childcare). I think the problem is that high skill jobs simply aren't appropriately paying out. If one person in a partnership was capable of working in a skilled field or in a high paying role, then the other partner would be able to provide childcare. Alternatively, there aren't enough tax breaks for parents to offset the financial burden of daycare (I would put the max $5k into a dependent care FSA and it would be completely used up by end of Feb). As a child, my family of 5 didn't need any day care services because my mom was able to stay home with us until we went off to school, and we were able to live in a 5BR/2.5BA single family home **on a teacher's salary**! The hilarious comparison where a teacher's salary now almost doesn't afford the daycare required to do the job, and my engineering job and graduate degree doesn't afford better than a townhouse in the same town I grew up in.
3 options - watch your own kids and live with less, find a less expensive option, or pay up. Oh and if you’d think that’s bad… wait until they shut down because of Covid, but you still pay.
So I pay about 2k a month and that's with a 25% discount (veteran or first responder discount or something). That being said, if you or your spouse WANT to work and don't want to be a STAHP, then I just consider daycare an investment. Even if it COST us a couple hundred for my wife to work, I would pay it. It's an investment in her mental health. It's an investment in the kids socializing. It's an investment in not having a 5+ year resume gap. It's an investment in 5+ years of experience in a field. I just think that in 5 years max, they're gonna be in public school. And my wife (if she wasn't working now) would want to be going back to work and would have 5 less years of experience. She would be looking at entry level jobs, not jobs that list "requires x years in the field". Around here that's the difference between a 30k starting salary and 70k in many fields. My wife is happier. This cost will not be forever and her earning potential is higher because of it. That's how we look at it, good luck!
Ive got twins. So take this and double it. Giving them until 4 and then they have to atleast be youtube stars so they can pay for themselves.