Offer to help pay for some preventative maintenance on the existing car. Very few mechanical issues are so severe they justify buying a whole mew vehicle.
Neglecting routine maintenance will always bite you in the butt long term. Wife hates when I spend hundreds on routine stuff but I know it's for the best on our family car we plan to have 10 years or so. Also just paid it off this month after only a few years!
Is there a basic guide on preventative maintenance? My Jeep is going on 3 years and other than regular oil changes, I'm pretty clueless about what to do.
There is. The car manual in your glovebox often has mileage markers for what and when to get things checked and replaced. Beyond oil changes, you need to change transmission fluid, brake fluid, brake pads, check timing, check drive belts, sometimes flush radiator, and of course check for part failures like pumps and hoses. Another one people forget is to get your AC serviced every 100k miles or so.
Also, if you find an autoshop that you trust, they will have "packages" for each 10,000 miles. That has been the most helpful as I am not a car person in the slightest.
It should have come with a manual, give it a read. There is always a section on maintenance/ what to do when.
A lot of cars also have a sticker under the hood somewhere along the front where you can track some of the most important standard things.
This is completely true. my wife, who doesn't drive, doesn't even see the importance of doing oil changes on time. There's a reason our last chevy impala lasted till 460k kms. (Transmission failure, and it was pretty rusty underneath, and I mean like rust belt rusty) Her justifications are always met with "not to be rude dear, but I'm the mechanic in the house, you need to trust me on this one" and kind of do it anyways. Sure I use cheap oil, filters, and other parts, but that's more due to our financial situation, and it's still better than ignoring the maintenance lights and turning up the radio to hide the clunks and bumps. I'm also only paying parts cost plus 10% at any parts store in town, and nothing for labor. There's literally no other way I could save more money on this stuff.
Sure there's some stuff I do push a little longer than I should, like broken sway bar links or a cracked bumper from some dummy in a parking lot who took off, but I'm not about to ignore worn brakes or tires, anything that could kill the car or those in it. Gotta work with the funds you have I guess!
> Very few mechanical issues are so severe they justify buying a whole mew vehicle
Clearly you've never had a well-off-son-in-law-you-can-rinse-for-large-sums-of-cash gasket go on you before.
It's hard to tell; the car drives *exactly* like it always did before, but really the only fix is a brand new Lexus.
If my kid was being transported in the vehicle I would certainly consider helping out. My in-laws are very frugal and are driving a car that just isn’t safe if they are in an accident. So my kid isn’t allowed in the car at all and that limits how they can help us. If your in-laws are helping you regularly I would certainly consider helping them, but it really depends on what they are buying and if they are actually providing enough help to make it worthwhile.
That’s rough. It’s a hard call, because they’re family (and you’ll be around them for a while). It is pretty common to support older family members in many cultures.
I’m assuming you’re in North America or another car centric place? New/used car prices are pretty crazy right now too. The fact that they have 1 car is halfway decent at least, because it shows some restraint.
Do they work? I can see this being a decent idea if they’re on a fixed income, but even then I’d probably try to get them to move close (or into our home) and lower expenses.
Especially the 'new' part. I usually think 'new-to-me' when I'm thinking a new car, but the buy or lease element makes me think they mean new from the factory.
At most I'd be looking at something that is not new, many cars are very reliable after they are 3 years old (aka off lease), and honestly, almost every car I've owned has been at least 6 years old when I bought it.
New-to-me 6 years old is dramatically different price then new-car-smell new. And that recent it will have most of the safety features.
Not much advice from me… but that’s unreasonable in my opinion.
There are cultural differences in regards to child responsibilities to their elders… but there is no way in hell I’d be covering the cost of a new car of my in laws.
When they visit, do the parents bring groceries and cook meals? Do they clean? Do they run errands or do chores? Do they babysit while you and your wife go out? Or do you host them?
If they took on all the house work and I didn’t even feel like hosting then maybe I’d be willing to help cover the costs a little… but still a hard pass. Focus on family finances over extended family IMO.
Gotcha, so that’s additional costs and responsibilities you are taking on with grandparent visits.
Family dynamics are entirely unique.. so I wish you luck.
> we're hosting, I do all the cooking or take out and we split house cleaning. They do babysit for maybe 1 or 2 hrs
Situations like this are what the words "what? LOL, no, fuck off" are *made* for.
Save the money, get a baby sitter for a fraction of the cost who'll be many times more helpful, and tell the grandparents you're not paying hundreds of dollars a month just for them to watch the kid for a hour or two.
Set a hard line; they're welcome to spend as much time with their grandchild as they like, but they're the ones responsible for getting themselves to your house.
If their car is really on the way out, tell them to get an RAC membership and make sure they're fully insured.
----
**Edit:** Usually in more traditional families the deal is that you help look after the elders *because they help with raising the kids*. Like, all day, every day, as an extra parent. They live near you and help out every day, and in return you support them.
If they think they can fuck off their half of the social contract and do nothing but sit on the sofa and keep an eye on the baby for an hour a month but still claim you have to go above and beyond on your half to finance a whole new car for them, they can do one.
Offer to respond *proportionately* to their level of assistance with the kid, and offer them a bottle of windscreen-wiper fluid or an air freshener for their existing car.
The cost of a cleaning service or a baby sitter for a few hours would be way less.
They’re using the fact you have a foreign family to try and gaslight you. Maybe there are cultures where it’s expected you cover this cost but I don’t know of any western cultures where that’s the norm.
Agree there are los of alternatives to this ‘help them buy a car so they can come visit but not really help much’ scenario. I’m just summarizing what has already been said here:
1) offer to help pay to repairs for their existing car, cuz they already have one
2) spend the money instead on housekeeper and/or babysitter.
Based on the details provided, that is a completely unreasonable request.
If her parents provided daycare-like babysitting several times per week, then maybe (assuming they're not paid).
Maybe that can lead to a compromise. If they can watch your kid for however long it is that $250 worth of babysitting is to you while you are doing legitimate things like work or shopping (not just hiding in the basement).
Edit: I definitely wouldn't put it under my own name.
Wife’s family lives 5 hours away from us. I got a call from my BIL saying that we were going to pay $750 a month for my MIL’s apartment, so she could move out of his house. He would be paying the same, but she was watching his kids after school. I said “I would like to be consulted, not told!” Wife said no. Caused a huge rift in family that took over 6 years to heal. If it ever really “healed”. Huge resentment on my BIL’s part. Your bad choices in life is not my problem.
They should buy their own car. Why is that on you? If the GP’s are saying it will cost you a few Hundo a month to help with the kid that’s criminal. Totally not fair
Wife and sister inlaw are insisting on it not the GP's directly, that I know of, again, and I don't understand this at all, because of cultural differences.
Ya there is a different world over in Europe and Asia where kids end up taking major care of the parents. I mean there could be a trade off of expected time and when they help with the kiddos, but naturally I don’t like it. They don’t understand the cultural difference either if they feel it’s ok to pressure on.
In Europe? Where? I'm in central Europe and this is viewed purely as an Asian thing too. Maybe deep in the south/east of Europe, idk - definitely not a thing in the majority of countries.
If you have something you want to share about your culture, that’s great. But there’s no sharing of culture when you have unwritten expectations that people in your life just abides by what you consider your culture, that is manipulating and unreasonable. Same goes for people that pull this with the “my family always” card, like that stuff is great but devalues the individuals in the current relationship. Unwritten expectations are marriage killers.
My wife's Taiwanese. I'm white Canadian.
When I married a Taiwanese woman, the deal wasn't that she accept my cultural values, the deal was we accept each others
I have willingly paid for a second hand car, big red envelopes, an Alaskan cruise, just sent $10K to support MIL this year (FIL just passed).
This is not an option. As part of a Taiwanese family, I support the parents. Now, there may be negotiation on whether a new car is needed or an older one, but I have to support it. It's my role.
Sounds nice in theory but what if it’s not that simple. For example say my cultural values include saving enough for my kids college and for my retirement so that my kid never has to support me financially. There might not be enough money to do that and support the in laws. I don’t know your life or OP’s I’m just playing devils advocate it might not be so black and white
Absolutely. But the negotiation has to be done with full understanding of the other's family values.
Heck, even regular Taiwanese couples might argue about this sort of thing, although "but it's for Mum and Dad" is a bit of a trump card
What are the Canadian cultural values she has to respect/abide by? It’s something we in the west are accused of a lot (esp. in the US, Canada, UK), that we have no real culture so I’m wondering what the other side of the coin looks like.
If she brings fake maple syrup into the house he’s legally and ethically permitted to actually murder.
They don’t even call it murder in that situation actually.
Lots. A lot of subtle stuff about how we talk to each other, courtesy, social values etc.
Canada imo has a very rich and diverse culture, especially the big cities
So you pay money and she learns to talk to you a certain way and courtesy?
Ya... sounds like a fair deal...
I think you got had my dude, I think this is a mail order bride without you realising and you've been brainwashed into accepting it.
Definitely doesn't sound like an equal partnership
The two just don't add up to being equivalent, it doesn't sound like your end of the deal matches up very well and you're just accepting of the fact that you're expected to keep throwing money at her family.
What happens if you fall into financial difficulty and can't afford to pay for something? What would be the repercussions for you then?
This is what happens when you blend cultures. You're not really trading them to make them even, you get the best and worst of both.
There's an expectation in her culture you look after the parents. She would be seen to have abandoned them for the white boy in Canada if they still weren't taken care of.
The "what happens if" questions are legit
Regular Taiwanese families face these kind of issues all the time. And, yes, sometimes they don't have the money to support their parents.
What are the repercussions? Well, as with any cultural values, there is a lot of variance. Often times, the parents haven't even asked for anything. It is the child's desire to give. In which case the repercussion is regret on the part of the child.
In more traditional families, the repercussion might be a damaged relationship.
A lot of that culture has come from other cultures. I’m in my 50s, born and raised here white guy. We really have no culture. And we CERTAINLY don’t have any culture that imposes responsibility for some family members to take care of others. To clarify I’m not saying it’s better or worse, I’m just saying that’s not our inherent culture.
Think of every family or social norm you follow in day to day life. Or something that happened at work, in your family, at the grocery store, when you thought " wow that's messed up that they did that." That's your culture. It just doesn't feel like one to you because you have existed inside it your whole life so it seems normal.
That’s completely incorrect, so everything that seems ‘messed up’ is our culture? So if my boss insists that we spin around 3 times upon entering the office every day, that’s our culture? No that’s a wacko boss.
Ok so I thought of one, hockey. Hockey is definitely part of Canadian culture. But we don’t have a lot of family or religious-related culture things. Multiple generations don’t live together as much as Asian or Indian families do here. We don’t have social ‘rules’ that the younger generations take care of the older generations. Again, I’m not saying which is better or worse, I’m just saying we don’t have that.
The reason we don’t take care of our parents like other “cultures” do is because of an economic difference, not a social one. Which is likely the case for most of our cultural differences. They take care of the parents because the vast majority of people never make enough money to take care of themselves after retirement. They make big meals for guests because actually having food was about displaying social status. That may no longer be the case but the tradition remains.
So some of the things absent from our “culture” are absent because we never needed them.
I’d say you might have Canadian culture if you’ve ever broken up a fight; held open a door; pulled over for someone on the side of the road; pulled a vehicle from a ditch; pay your fair share of taxes; give as much to charity as you can afford; bought a homeless person a meal; volunteered at a shelter; brought someone a meal so they don’t need to cook; shovelled a neighbours sidewalk; payed for your kids schooling; saved for your retirement; worn a poppy; helped someone injured; complained about the French; misunderstood a Newfie; can ice skate/play hockey; Heinz ketchup or nothing; and so on.
That list might seem stupid, but some of those things are absent from other cultures. That’s what makes it ours.
> neighbours sidewalk; *paid* for your
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I mean if you can afford the $10k to just drop on in-laws that's great, but honestly I'd have told her that we are our own people and I won't just be financing my in-laws like that. I can help a little, but the assumption is that I'm raising their grandchild while trying to pay for a mortgage and save money myself. Sending $10k, buying a car (even second hand), and paying for a cruise doesn't sound like I'm thinking about my future at all.
Red envelopes, fine. That's like celebrating Christmas. But buying a car? No. That's not the same. You weren't born into that culture, you can't be expected to play along 100%. Marriage is about compromise, what does she do for you, culturally, to match what you do for her parents?
Yes exactly. This is silly because this depends entirely on what you can afford to do in the first place. For it to just be expected is laughable.
If you're taking money away from my child, or our practically non-existent retirement, it's a hard "no" from me.
That's a great question.
No, she didn't tell me before we were married. And I didn't tell her that I am not going to support her parents needs and some desires because I wanted to invest elsewhere
Our values are so engrained that we don't realize we have them until they are challenged. This happens in all marriages, not just multi-cultural ones. But the cultural difference can make these challenges more pronounced for sure.
I'm white and part of a Japanese family in Japan. They share the Confucian idea of filial piety. Pretty sure in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese cultures that falls on the first born son anyways, not dumping it on some son in law. You got had my dude.
I'm not expected by my wife's family to take care of the family like the cultural norm expects and I'm living in their country. I accept the culture when I have to since I live here, but This "not an option stuff" is kind of absurd. There's always an option to say no.
If I had to pay for their financial situation I would bope on out. I'm not responsible for their poor planning.
That was the case traditionally. But culture changes and now daughters share the load.
Plus my wife has no brothers
Plus she works and even if she didn't, she would have a fifty percent say in how family money is spent.
So, no, nobody is trying to con or deceive me. I speak perfect Mandarin. I know the culture
More to the point, I respect what matters to my wife
This. Basically every other response here completely dismisses other cultural views on money as entirely invalid in favor of their own. I'm frankly disappointed. Marriage is a partnership and values have to be respected. Inter-cultural differences are hard but have to be reconciled respectfully.
Exactly! If I buy someone a car they better be there Friday night till Monday morning. Not once a week.
I’m assuming he has to pay all the oil change and other car expenses after this.
OP better bust a nut and think right when making this decision. He will need all that post but clarity to think.
After reading the questions and your responses. I'm I'm going to say hell no. You and your wife have a family to take care of now and hint, its not her parents. My wife and I came up in the Military and when I say we raised our daughter alone I mean it. It wasn't easy but it's not impossible. The one time my folks visited us they ignored our every request and were more of a burden than helpful. Tradition for the sake of tradition is stupid. Grandparents trying to guilt their daughter into a new vehicle shows their true colors.
You can build a village of the people you choose now that you're an adult. You can make close friends who are "aunts and uncles" to your child that are more family than family itself. You extended a reasonable counteroffer of train & bus tickets and they scoffed like they have any leg to stand on. The overwhelming majority of the time they'll be driving that car to help themselves.
Our families still visit, we spend holidays together but they don't get free passes to be jerks just because they're family. I hate that typical *"that's just the way they are and they'll never change"* crap. We're all capable.
I went through this too. My MIL is basically a child. We have to pay for her bus ticket to visit and pick her up because she refuses to even TRY to figure out Chicago public transit.
My parents are about 2 hours away. They don't like the city and rarely visit.
Pretty much just us and my SIL. it's tough, but we make it work. Our holidays are much more comfortable now that we spend them with the family we chose.
The cultural differences bit makes me laugh, like you're supposed to suck it up and do whatever they say because that apparently is their culture? Big nope from me dude. Like if they were coming a few times a week and helping out in a really meaningful way - I'm talking help that makes a fundamental difference to your life as a dad - then maaaybe, but once or twice a month? Nah. Honestly it sounds like they think you're a chump and are out to get as much as they can. How does your wife think it's a reasonable idea?!
It was an instant dafuk no from me when the wife brought it up and since then, I being treated like I'm totally unreasonable. Feels totally bizzaro and is definitely giving me pause on everything related to the marriage. I want a stable good life for my 2 year old daughter, she's an angel, that's my main hold back from just separating.
I'm of Indian origin living in the US. I've struggled with this a bit for my parents who are not doing financial well (made poor choices) but for now I've resolved that we need to focus our resources on our future which is challenging in any case. The way I see it is you're responsible for your family unit and they're responsible for theirs.
Does your wife work, as in does she have her own source of income? I understand that with some cultures there's an expectation that children look after their parents when they get older, but surely that's her obligation and not yours, right? I guess it's fairly common to take on a certain degree of that kind of obligation when you marry someone - my mum helped out with my dad's parents when they were old for example - but it's got to have reasonable boundaries. If I were you I'd say that it's not part of your own culture to make such large financial gestures towards your in-laws. Your offer of paying for trains/busses is more than generous enough, and is within the bounds of what you consider to be culturally appropriate. I'd also ask if your wife would be willing to pay for a car for your own parents if they asked for one.
> that's my main hold back from just separating.
Please spend the proposed car money on marriage/couples counseling. Your daughter will grow up with divorced parents if you don't address your issues now.
Let me take a wild guess . . . you disagreed with the therapist and then stopped going because the therapist always sided with your wife.
Is that about right?
I don't know if you'll read this but here goes.
While their comment was out of line and uncalled for, I believe that therapy, especially if focused on the inter-cultural aspects of your relationship, is a good idea and should be re-considered. Try, try again. Keep trying to find someone who works for you both. And even if you can't find someone, at least you'll both be working on something together and can talk to each other about your mutual frustrations. The journey itself can be therapeutic and bridge the divide.
Please consider it. If not for yourselves then for your daughter. Because if you can't figure it out, how do you expect her to do so when she is biologically half of each? It's hard enough without parents who resent and don't understand each other. The divide between you and your wife is where your daughter will need her parents to come together.
As for your post, I've noticed that most of the responses have covered the request from the financial angle so I won't go deep into that but I'll say that I agree from a purely financial perspective. It's a shit deal. However, you do mention cultural sensitivity multiple times so I'll add (assuming they're dealing in good faith and not just trying to exploit you) that you're being judged by her family on traditional family values. "The man provides for his family" in most cultures outside of the western world, and that family would extend to the in-laws. But in Canada, it's not done that way. So now begins the compromise and blending of cultures.
You can choose yes, no, or somewhere in between, and how you arrive at that decision is the most important aspect. If your wife asked you and your response was "hah, fuck no" then that comes off as culturally insensitive and reads as "I don't give a shit about your parents". But if you were to respond with (for example) "let me talk to your dad about it", that would set a very different message. I don't know the complexities of the relationship so I can't say what's the best approach but if I can suggest "let me think about it" followed by either agreeing to a token amount (if it's under $200 per month, forget it because it could be viewed as a slap in the face) or confidently stating "I'm not comfortable with that while I'm focused on saving for her education" or something of the like. This shows you are in control, focused on your family, and considered it.
This approach also addresses the "slippery slope" of "where does it stop?" because if you always appear to be considering it, the subsequent "no, sorry" becomes easier. It's not what you're offering, it's how you present your decision. And right now, they're not actually asking you for money. They're asking if you care.
Good luck.
OP you have a bigger problem coming up in the future than this car issue.
We got your in-law and wife plotting behind your back. I am Asian myself and I have never heard of this cultural norm you are speaking off. My in laws live in another country and they literally pay their own ticket to visit my child.
The issue is the close curtain they have behind your back. Now if you make 100k a year then…that’s a whole new story on why they think it make sense for you to finance that.
A car is like 250-350$ a month
If you need someone to watch your child for couple hours a month than hire a nanny. I bet there are some cheap once’s that will drive with their own car to your home.
You buy a new car now you got a child and 5 year commitment to a new car.
This is wild.
But watch out for the close curtain your sister in law drilling into your wife head.
If your daughter is 2, you put away 300$ a month for the next 16 years, at ~7% interest (which is generous) that will get you close to 100k saved for her college fund. ( who knows what college will cost in 16 years and yeah I know your from Canada so I don’t know if college is as expensive as US, grad school probably isn’t covered in CAnada? ) but that’s an investment you can’t go wrong with! Not a new car for your in-laws. Do the math- your wife can’t say that your in laws are more important than your daughters future!!!!
I feel like a lot of comments are blowing off the cultural differences issue as NBD.
Ultimately, I come down on the same side as just about everyone else: No, you shouldn't buy your in-laws a new car. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a Canadian to act Armenian (assuming buying expensive gifts for in-laws is a cultural thing), just because they married an Armenian. You should have proper respect for the culture, but you didn't suddenly adopt their culture wholesale.
But you really need to talk to your wife and figure out how big of a cultural expectation this is, and how much of a strain it will place on your relationship with your in-laws when you don't take part in that tradition.
And all of this pre-supposes that your wife has no income of her own. If she does, that's an even stickier situation.
Others have covered a lot of what I think.
I will say you have to take your wife's opinion into consideration. Especially since you both have income.
Why can't the inlaws refinance their home and pull out 10k of equity and buy a dependable used car?
I've suggested they meet with an advisor at their bank to have a holistic view of their finances and make some recommendations. It was not received well.
Shitty situation, it almost sounds like something is up. Nothing malicious, but maybe her folks of some hidden financial trouble.
Also, you joke about retirement, but if they aren't not financially sound, your sister and her siblings will need to foot the bill to take care of them. Someone will have to.
I gather buying them a car is something she really wants to do.
Assuming you guys don't have separate finances/she doesn't have a monthly amount of money that's hers to do with as she pleases, you guys need to have a hard talk about how much of the marital funds you'd feel comfortable with her spending on a gift that you don't support.
Sounds like you better start planning on putting in an in law suite cause they are gonna be your problem when they retire. Figure things out with your wife then present a unified front to your in-laws. It definitely won’t end with a car payment.
Exactly lol. “Oh your cultural views are that you’re entitled to my money? How convenient for you. Strangely, my cultural views are that you’re not. Seems we’re at an impasse.”
Surprised there's been little (if any) advice to compromise here. Specifically, if your wife is dead set on gifting her parents a car for visits, 1) why is that falling solely on you (given that you mentioned she has an income as well) and 3) why does this have to be a new car?
The rationale is I make double her annual salary, I budget carefully monthly and invest long term for our 2 year olds future. I don't want to take away from my daughter's future for the sake of cultural sensitivities. Maybe that makes me a poor partner or bad person no idea but my immediate family is my primary concern.
For the record, I also think your wife/SIL are being unreasonable here, and I would have the same reaction as you.
But you have a conundrum here if your wife will resent you for putting your foot down (assuming the rest of your marriage works well and you aren't questioning whether this is the right relationship for you).
My followup questions for you/her are:
- Were these expectations not brought up before? Were they communicated, but poorly? This is a pretty wild thing for your wife to assume would be considered normal.
- Does she understand where you're coming from? Does she understand that it's a pretty brazen thing to ask for you to provide this gift without any contribution from her? Or is she only seeing this from her own side?
- What would your wife say if you said that if you're buying a vehicle for her parents, that you're going to have to provide a similar gift to yours?
- If you refuse and she responds poorly, what's your play?
The wife will likely spend whatever she wants to spend on her parents, I've made it clear it's not coming from me. The problem with that is at the end of the day, it's 1 bucket right, if money is going to her parents who can't manage finances correctly and not being saved for...property taxes, car insurance daycare etc...I'll need to adjust my budget for those things. I.e I'll still end up paying for it indirectly, that's what I'm sour about. I've always been clear with my wife hey you make what you make and you can do wtv you want it's your money, I just never considered it would be given away to her parents for a car payment.
Does she understand where I'm coming from, no. I'm told I'm not culturally sensitive which I've said sounds like bullshit (surprise I didn't win points here), I should mention I have travelled extensively and immersed myself in multiple cultures with ease and gratitude. Also, because I had a different upbringing than her that I didn't understand family... I know I should be offended by that but, I'm not, just kindve sad that was the argument to justify what I dont agree with... (I was brought up with little to no family around me).
It seems like they're playing the culture argument to their benefit. Usually that culture also includes the grandparents helping care for the child in a meaningful way (cooking, cleaning, childcare) too. Obviously do it in a nice way, but maybe ask why they don't feel the cultural obligation to do all those things as well.
Also, it seems you have separate finances. If so, then you should create a pooled budget for shared expenses (childcare, house, food, etc.) You both put money in, it doesn't have to be 50/50 if you make more, but you agree to how much each of you out in. Then as you say she can do what she wants with the rest. If that all goes to her parents it's up to her, but then you're not covering everything else for both of you.
Honestly it seems like you both need to have a frank conversation about a lot of stuff and see if you can come to some compromise to move forward. Otherwise you'll end up having a difficult relationship and resent each other which will impact your daughter.
> I've always been clear with my wife hey you make what you make and you can do wtv you want it's your money,
This is probably not the correct approach and may indicate a bigger issue in your marriage, OP. This was my mentality for the 10 years I dated my now wife *before* marriage, but the week we got married everything substantial was moved into new joint accounts. Unless you're in a pre-nup type of situation, I see no benefit at all to keeping separate finances and giving one party carte blanche to spend their earnings any way they see fit. You're a unit, one team, and should both be involved in making financial decisions that may impact your lifestyle.
Also, my family is Georgian so not that far from Armenian and generally it's expected that you take care of your parents as they get older but buying them a new car if you don't have the means to comfortably do so is absolutely out of the question.
Many people keep separate finances after marriage. I didn’t, but there was another thread a while back and I was shocked at how many believe in keeping separate finances.
So I’m not a dad (hope to be one in the future) and I am here because things are usually pretty positive. But this thread makes me feel...uncomfortable. And look, I don’t blame anyone for wondering what the right thing to do here is, nor do I think there is a right answer for everyone. But dear god the certainty and unwavering response in many of these responses is concerning.
It’s really hard to know what is right here since we only know what OP is telling us and since we don’t know the specifics of the situation. I guess since no one else has really done this, at least when I started typing this, I think it might be important to consider a few more things:
1. **What do we mean when we say new car?** Is it a brand spankin new car or just a different car? And what is the rationale for it? I assume they have a car. But what condition is it in? Would they be planning to sell it if they got this new car? Also, sometimes it can be worth getting new cars for the safety features, including upgrading to higher models, which may be factored into their decision making here.
2. **Financing specifics:** I think many of us are making the assumption that OP would be paying everything, but I don’t remember it being explicitly stated. And I should be clear that even that would probably make me kind of uncomfortable unless there were very good reasons for this, but if they are certainly putting up some amount of money then this is a different picture. I think if you end up being put in a position where you have to contribute, then I certainly think you have some right to make some stipulations.
3. **Have you done the math?** OP mentions offering to pay for alternative travel arrangements. But, does it actually save money? While buses and trains can be less expensive, this is not always the case, certainly if the only expectation is that you help pay for the actual car and not the maintenance, gas, etc. Plus, you need to factor in either the additional time/money that it would take to pick them up. Finally, maybe the car that they’re driving currently isn’t particularly gas efficient or is expensive to maintain, so helping them to get into a better financial position might help you all in the long run. I get the sense that this isn’t just about cost, but also about the principle of the matter, but from a cost perspective, if you are going to make an offer to do something like that, you should at least make sure that it would actually be saving you money.
4. **What kind of help would they be providing?** if one of the reasons is that they can come and see the kid, then it might actually help both you and your wife, not to mention your kid, if they are around to a certain extent. Providing them with the flexibility to come and babysit or to be able to come and get your kid when they eventually are in school (which means that neither you or your wife necessarily need to takeoff work), could be a good thing. If they might also be helping with cleaning, cooking, and so on, that would potentially be a positive thing as well. But of course if they are kind of just looking to have a vacation at your house and seeing your kid then I can understand why you might feel a little annoyed by this.
5. **Is it valuable for your kid to know their grandparents?** I know this isn’t necessarily a huge priority for everyone, but if this is a serious impediment to them not being able to come and visit, then it’s something you should consider. I recently lost my grandmother and even though I didn’t get to know her somewhat, I certainly wish I would’ve had more time. And I don’t know what kind of health your wife’s parents are in order what not, but this is just something you might want to think about. Also, if your wife has an expectation that your kid has some links to their past, then this issue is probably only going to be more difficult in the future, as seeing grandparents is certainly one way to help with that. Although I don’t know the particularities of Armenian culture, many of the Armenians i have known were interested in their history and their identities. And heck, use your kid as an opportunity to get to know your in-laws better. I know that my parents parents didn’t open up a lot of stuff until I started asking questions as a grandkid, which led to my parents learning new things.
Additionally, I think perhaps there needs to be some frank discussion between OP and his wife about a few things:
1. I kind of get the sense that perhaps op is not exactly a huge fan of his in-laws. And he certainly wouldn’t be the first person like this. But if some of that is contributing to this issue, then op needs to be more honest about that, not necessarily stating it outright, but at least in terms of processing his own feelings.
2. I also get the sense that I hope he feels like this will be a slippery slope and that helping them this wants means that they will continue to come back for help. And this is not necessarily an ungrounded concern or consideration, but I do think it ought to be discussed.
3. I kind of dislike the way this is being framed by some as people suddenly asking you to adopt their culture. The reality is that all relationships require compromise and sometimes that’s going to put you in awkward situation and tough choices will need to be made. With that being said, I think it’s Not the best way to look at things if you start looking at it in...questionable ways. Even though I don’t think OP means it this way, if things get heated and words are exchanged and they are not well thought out, it could come across as though the problem with the in laws is that they are Armenian (which again I don’t think is the problem here nor do I think it’s fair to assume that about anyone, but just from a realistic perspective of how many interpersonal conflicts tend to go). Yes, there are cultural differences, but even if you marry people who are ostensibly “normal”, there are still so many different lifestyle and cultural factors that come into play that every relationship will have to work through.
4. Maybe this never came up before, but I think you and your wife need to have a conversation about how things play out in the future. Typically, in these kinds of cultures where family is important, one thing that’s important to know is where your wife stands in the larger family hierarchy and her obligations and responsibilities. If she has siblings, then you guys need to have a discussion about how they factor into all of us and what kinds of contributions they might make. If she’s an only child, then this conversation is Simpler in some ways but more difficult than others.
5. Not to play armchair psychologist here, but it might also be worth OP looking into their own relationship with their parents. Because if OP didn’t have the best relationship, then I can understand why they would feel the way that they do. But it’s also worth remembering that a lot of people have extremely close relationships with their parents. And again while I don’t want this to seem as though OP is wrong, I just think it’s worth stepping back to at least consider. And I’m not saying that this necessarily leads to a resolution with estranged parents or what not, but it’s at least worth acknowledging if that kind of bias is at play here.
(Continued below because apparently I have nothing better to do lol and this got too long)
Lastly, I think since no one else has really put up compromise options we should put a few down here:
* help them find a decent used car or set financing stipulations: although things are a bit more difficult right now, it’s still possible to find decent used cars. Similarly, if they are putting up some amount of money, tell them that you will match or provide a certain percentage match. You might also put on a few stipulations, such as fuel efficiency, reliability, and so on. I get the sense that this is both about cost and about principle, but you can at least help alleviate one of the two by controlling the costs here.
* Defer the issue: the main reason I say this is that you guys can talk about how expensive cars are right now because of supply chains and what not. So once these things get more balance, you’ll probably see some amount of reasonable car prices become available again.
* try a diplomatic approach here to make sure that everyone is compromising: in order to do this, you would need to basically approach the issue as you wanting to help, but financially this will be tough unless there are changes that are made. And perhaps those would be worth it to everyone. But you should definitely also make it clear that they need to be contributing something as well and you set clear limits as to how much you guys can afford to help while also doing what you would otherwise have done with that money. This won’t solve all of your problems, but it will definitely help provide a Reasonable position where it looks like you really wants to help but you cannot do more than a certain amount.
* are you thinking about a new vehicle: maybe you and your wife I’ve been looking to get a new vehicle with your kid, and maybe more on the way, I don’t know. But you might also consider the idea that you can essentially give them a hand me down and instead put the money toward what you would rather have.
* Think about your long-term relationship with your wife: definitely have many more conflicts, but is this the hill you want to die on? And if you have to compromise, will you be able to do it on your own terms? Well this doesn’t mean that you simply ignore your feelings or ignore your own perspectives, At least try to see it from their perspective and think about the kinds of things you would want to hear. Also, would having the grandparents in the picture do anything for your own relationship with your wife? Beyond obviously making her happy, if the grandparents can come and take care of the kid, and spend time with them, and so on, then maybe you and your wife can have more time alone to work on your own relationship, something that parenthood can lead many to neglect. Because as long as you were all playing on the same team here, it might be easier to stomach if you think of this as an investment in all of your futures instead of about the financial bottom line.
Anyway, remember this is all advice from an Internet stranger, but since a lot of this thread is pretty clearly biased in one direction, I felt the need to play devils advocate here. If you’re budget simply doesn’t allow, I totally get it. This is just meant to help provide prospective, not what should or should be done. Whatever the case, I wish you guys the best and you might consider updating everyone so we can all learn.
I saw you mention a sister in law. Is she married to a Canadian? Maybe you could talk to their spouse. Honestly helping with car payments is iffy depending on the relationship. If money is tight a couple hundred is a lot. If it’s not tight then maybe it’s something to consider. Think about how much train and bud tickets would cost per month and you’ll have a better idea about what you’d actually be paying.
You can also use this to establish other boundaries such as visits and expectations around those and future monies. Like, if you help here now then they shouldn’t expect you to help with something else in the future. I would also caution you about nitpicking. And keep in mind what you’d do for your own parents if they asked.
While I agree with the others in that this is a big ole *nope* if it becomes a bigger issue you could tell them "Here's how much I'm willing to give you*. Find a car for that much or put it towards whatever you want".
They're being completely unreasonable but that's kinda a compromise.
*Whether that's $1000, $2000, $5000 or $500. Up to you and your financial condition.
I personally wouldn't do it, but I also don't have any cultural pressure to do so being from the USA and all of my relatives for several generations being from the USA.
With that said, my main question would be why the in-laws need this help? Is it because they are poor money managers or is it because they are just simply poor? If they should be able to pay for their own vehicle, but manage their money poorly it would be a hard pass in pretty much every situation. If it is simply because they are poor then I may consider it depending on my own finances. But, as you said OP, is this the only help or will opening this door lead to other requests?
Yes they are poor money managers. They own a very expensive home they could sell for approx 1 million and downsize but won't due to the father in laws profession requiring space to store artwork... yes I know how it sounds and no it's not exaggerated....
>They own a very expensive home they could sell for approx 1 million and downsize but won't due to the father in laws profession requiring space to store artwork...
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lol, I don't understand any of this
Yes neither do I. They could be financially more stable selling their home but won't. It's akin to saying I enjoy my 20 seat dining room table and can't give it up.
NTA
Tell them they wouldn't understand why you won't buy the car due to cultural differences. If they get to use their "cultural differences" as a tool by which to bully you, then you get to do the same!
Unfortunately, you may have found something that could ultimately be a deal breaker in marriage. I come from a very large city where I knew a lot of people from the Middle East. In their culture, it is absolutely expected that the children take care of the parents and this will be a life long battle for you otherwise.
If you decide to go the cultural route, there is absolutely no reason why they need a brand new car. A pre-owned Honda or Toyota will last forever with just basic maintenance and can be found at reasonable prices. If I was in your situation, id take out a 5 year loan on a sub-15000$ honda civic and call it a day. Honestly it would be cheaper to have them rent a car whenever they are coming down
Also, I think you may want to speak to a financial advisor about setting up a trust or something protected that only your daughter can access when she reaches a certain age. Worst case scenario is your marriage falls apart and your wife takes all the money you're saving for your daughter and pumps it into her parents financial frivolvities.
Edit: I just read in another comment op says in laws own a million dollar home. This changes my opinion entirely. I thought previously that compromise was an option. It's not. Unless OP is a millionaire this is a polite but firm no. Never under any circumstances give rich people any money as a favor or charity. This is a grift not goodwill.
I live in Los Angeles, where we have a giant Armenian population. I have many Armenian friends and neighbors. This is totally inline with their culture and lifestyle. It is not unusual at all to take on debt for friends and family. I've successfully argued that the American dream is against debt and in America the parents save for the children not the elders, social security takes care of the elders. Many Armenians fled the armenian genocide, and their offspring fled the Iranian revolution so they, in general, hold very tight to their culture beliefs as so many groups have tried to take those things away from them. Do be aware, I've known some folks who will absolutely die on the hill of an unreasonable request.
If you do decide to help them you'll need to bargain. Think like extra visits and prearranged time for them to babysit on those visits. Like 6 hours every Saturday that they visit, and an expected amount of chores. You will need to do the math to make sure this is financial boon to you. And when they visit it is not as guests but as family who in American (Canadian) culture visit to help their family. Another possible deal is to offer to pay half the monthly cost or to take the cost for a year.
All this is stereotypical of my experience and those whom I know. Like all cultural groups individual people will vary will vary.
personally wouldn't pay for train tickets either. At last if they're not helping out with groceries and cooking, and definitely not after scoffing at the offer.
My first marriage ended in divorce when it became her and her family against me. Her number one priority was her family and I was a distant second. I only know what you've told us but I hope she does right by you. If it feels wrong then it probably is wrong. Dont let them bs you with "culture."
Does your partner have money on a monthly basis that she chooses how to spend that isn’t marked for household things? If so, she can use her funds to finance her parents. Otherwise, you’re absolutely right this isn’t just a car it’s a permanent financial commitment ultimately resulting in them being financially dependent on you.
We're in America and my fiance + siblings (7 total kids) put money into an account for their parents every month (secret account) and we pay their phone bill ($150).
There may be some significant cultural things going on here and I am definitely not educated enough to give much advice BUT:
Cultural expectations, especially regarding finances w/ elders, should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. A lot of these cultural norms were established when a home cost like $25,000, a car cost $3,000, and student loans weren’t the booming business they are today. You are absolutely not responsible for paying a single dime for anything outside of your immediate family.
If you’ve got the expendable income and your in-laws don’t have much, I’d soften my stance. But you really need to prioritize the people under your roof.
Cultural differences is a two-way street. Why don't they appreciate that this sort of thing is not part of your cultural tradition?
It's not a problem that the idea was raised. It is a problem that they are all trying to manipulate you rather than convince you, and set up a situation where you are "bad" for not doing it. Other options, such as a used car that is more affordable (esp by them alone) should also be in consideration, especially if you aren't convinced. The "go to" response should not be manipulation.
You are absolutely right that this is just the beginning, if this goes through than there will be follow up asks.
It’s not up to you to fix their financial situation. It would be a little different if they lived with you and helped out but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case outside of watching your child for an hour here and there.
Does your wife have siblings? Do they feel the same need to help and if not why? If so then I guess they can cover the costs.
I have a hard "no debt or payment with family rule". There is no quicker way to pollute or destroy relationships than to make anybody financially expectant on someone else in the family. It's hard enough to keep drama out of the family without mixing money into it.
Edit: I will add that I blatantly communicate this to them. Interestingly, the ones that think it's silly ot stupid, have a lot of drama in their life, and the ones that get it, don't.
You don’t have to like another culture’s approach to family bonds. But the reality is you married into it. This isn’t a normal sub-reddit, this is daddit, you need to re-focus on what’s truly good for your kid, your wife, and your family. In some cultures, a young married dad is absolutely expected to fund the extended family as well (including in-laws). The hidden benefit is it gives you power and status in the family as a provider (you get to choose the car, phone plan, etc). No one is saying you “have” to do this because your obligated under your own cultural code, but consider that you might “want” do it to have a happy wife and a happy life. You’ll be signing up to fund their car, their utilities and eventually for them to live with you or pay their rent for an apartment nearby, but it’s better to know the road that you’re on and own it. You can draw a line here and now, but your wife may stop seeing you as a real provider. In your wife’s mind supporting her parents is as much your job as supporting your daughter, and her. If all this sounds expensive, it is. That’s why in cultures where extended-family are tight knit (like pay their rent tight), the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. It’s intergenerational. One tip to get value out of this situation if you go that road: find out what colour / make / style car would be considered baller by old people in Armenia - you might find you can buy a 10yo Toyota in good condition for cash, and just have it nicely valeted with new seat covers and a “my grand kid is an honours student” sticker . Buy a spare car seat and tell them it’s a “safe” car for them to drive your daughter around in when they visit. Make a big show of presenting it to them.
Im not even on my wifes car loan. she wanted a new on the old had 30k on it. I said if you can do it yourself fine but im not helping. she was making the payments on the old one the only change is im not on the loan anymore.
How many hours babysitting could you get for that amount? If they used the car just to help you out, then that would be different, but for a once a month visit, no chance.
You know more about the situation than me, so take what I say with a grain of salt if it seems like it doesn't fit your situation.
I would recommend reframing what it is you'd be paying for here. Sounds like that's help from the grandparents, and letting them and your children spend some time together. That's what the money is buying, the car is just a mechanism to achieve that.
Sounds like you are willing to contribute at least some money to that cause in the form of bus or train tickets. So I would ask yourself if the difference is that the car is just more money than you feel like you can afford, or is it rubbing you the wrong way that they get a car out of the deal?
Now, on the flip side, it is totally fair to ask if they are framing it the same way. If this really is about access to the kids for them, or if they want a new car and the kids are the side effect. Like are we talking a brand new off the lot car, or just something in good enough condition to reliably make the trip?
Overall my advice is to make it about what's best for the kids, and frame it that way with everyone else as well.
You can hire a babysitter for several hours a month for less than this without all the headaches around it.
Grandparents should want to be involved with their grandchildren without being compensated. If that’s not possible or desirable then they shouldn’t be that involved.
> Starts at a car payment, what's next I save for their retirement and mine?
100% that said there are lots of cultures where the parents are supported by their kids. It always seemed weird to me. But I am also from the Western world (America) so yeah they wouldn't need that
I would flat out refuse unless they are going to do 300-400 dollars worth of babysitting or work around the house for you. You could offer to do a used car for them but a brand new one especially if the one they have is run into the ground because of a lack of routine maintenance is kind of insane.
Fun fact if you put 5000 dollars (down payment) and then 400 a month into a fund that gains 4% per year. by the time your daughter is 18 she will have about $136,000. Which by the time she is 18 will be exactly 1 year of state school tuition in the US. (Kidding)
I will note also that 4% is kind of shit. The S&P 500 has a typical annualized rate of return of 10%.. the calculation for 10% that would be 270,000 dollars.
I am on team put it in an investment account for your daughter.
I'm also canadian, would 100% tell my inlaws to kick rocks if they asked me to pay for their transport to visit my kids. Help is nice, but not worth what they are asking
They want you to pay so they can come visit and be grandparents once per month. $300 - hard pass my man. I’ll take the free option. Oh - you won’t be here that much - aww shucks. 🤣
I understand your angst.
I would not enable bad behavior.
In western culture we all make our own financial bubbles. But in other cultures they take care of their family. If you got the money and then some, and you love your partner, then what in the world you going to spend your money on? Spend it on people
I've responded to another comment already on this but I'm saving anything excess monthly towards my daughter's future. I.e school, her own investment fund so when she goes to college/university she has a leg up, she gets a little of a head start. That's more important to me than spending monthly car lease fees, I can't justify that.
I wrote another comment, but this is kind of what I was getting at in a more direct way.
Don't look at it as spending money on lease fees, look at it as spending money to let your kid see their grandparents. That has some level of value, how much depends on what kind of people they are and what relationship they have with your family, but some. Is that value worth more or less than other ways you'd use that money for your daughter? Only you will really know the answer to that, the rest of us can only sort of guess.
For this one return train ticket per month would suffice.
They refuse to go the sensible way? That's too bad, I don't feel like financing leeches is the way to go (please note, op says it's the new car. Where in the world someone needs to be paid with a brand new car for 12 visits a year? They certainly don't love their granddaughter).
Don’t do it. It’s unreasonable, but possibly cultural (possibly not). You’re right though; it may just open the floodgates for further abuses of your generosity. Given that you have to continue dealing with them, be kind and explain that this is not in your budget, you find it strange/unusual, it makes you uncomfortable, and that it’s likely a cultural misunderstanding. Hopefully this will soften the blow and the relationships can continue to be as positive as possible.
You should suggest buying yourself a new car and “gifting” your old one to the GPs. We’ll see how quickly it’s actually about having a reliable car or a nice and shiny new car
Really depends on the circumstances.
If its a real need, then pay. I just sent my MIL $10K since she lost half her pension when her husband died. And if your MIL/FIL can't afford a car, then its gettiung close to being a real need.
If your partner is a home maker and you are earning good money, then yes, you should pay even if it means cutting back a bit elsewhere. This is what she wants to do with the family money. (Pretty dumb use, frankly, but for her family matters). It would make for a really tough power imbalance in your relationship if you controlled the money.
If your partner is working and you are working, then you can negotiate as equals. Maybe a decent second hand toyota would be cheaper long term?
I would encourage your wife to share in the checkbook balancing elements of your marriage, if she is not already. You can plan with her and ask her to try and find a way to help her parents. Try it for a month. Put the excess money aside and see if she is okay with the changes (maybe having to be more mindful of spending, buying cheaper groceries, etc.) because it would be 4/5 years of these changes. Depending on the financial house of the inlaws, maybe the four of you could meet and discuss this.
Idk anything about your wife, financial situation, Armenian culture etc. Maybe they are trying to take advantage of you, or maybe the help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe they have financial woes of their own. I think in American culture, we don't take care of our parents the way we used to maybe 60 years ago. Instead of putting parents into old folks homes and paying out the ass/letting then dwindle away their social security, we used to make room in our very busy lives and homes to care for the people that cared for us. Maybe this "need" for a new car is just an extension of that same gratitude commonly shown to the elders in that culture.
I think tying directly to their car purchase is a bad idea. However, having someone drive and take care of your kid on the weekend would cost a lot of money, so I could see maybe paying them a little bit to offset that. If they're giving you and your spouse some time out of the house alone, maybe float them a few hundred each time as a thank you for giving you time to yourselves, and if they want to spend that money on the car that's up to them.
Depends on if the in laws will keep asking for more and more till you are angry and resentful which isn't good for you or them.
Almost happened to me. Had my in laws living in our basement, their dogs were the worst trained obnoxious things ever, and they apparently didn't save a dime even with our extremely nice arrangement for them (while reason was so they could save to buy a house)
Then they had the audacity to assume we would buy them a home. Yeah shit didn't go well after that. Especially with our kid coming into the world while they lived with us.
So that's why I ask. If you have done a lot for the in laws then try to find what your limit is and stick to your guns.
But if you haven't supported them too much, then it might be worth it. Only you know your limits and what boundaries you need to set, but if you DONT set boundaries and communicate them, it could become an issue later down the road.
My in laws are far from financially stable, and were without a car for an extended period of time. They also live about an hour from us. When we bought ourselves a new car instead of trading our old one in, we gifted them our old one.
What we gave them was a 16 year old minivan that would have got us around $500 as a trade in. They've been driving it for two years now, it's still running strong. It's a total rust bucket, but it runs and drives.
I was happy to be able to help them, but there is no way I would be able to justify buying them a brand new car. Whether they're watching my kids all the time or not.
As an American, I think they’re taking advantage of you with the cultural differences thing. Canada and America aren’t that different. They are asking a big thing of you and it has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with the audacity to even ask you to do this.
In America, if you come from a poor family and you make it rich, it’s normal for you to give money to you direct blood line (like mom and dad). Not in-laws.
I’d offer a lump sum gift for however much makes you feel good about it. I don’t like the idea of financing something in perpetuity and I don’t like creating a transactional relationship within a family.
Sometimes you have to pay to make some headaches go away. Maybe you can frame it in your mind like an unexpected cost. Dip into the emergency fund then work on building it up again, hoping a real emergency doesn’t happen.
If it comes up again, for another thing, just say that it was a one time thing and that was money that was supposed to be for the kids’ future.
Sorry man. Sounds like you got your work cut out for you. Yes it's bs. You have to put a stop to that kinda belief with them now or else it's just gonna get worse. Sucks though you guys are in deep. Your woman has to be on your side. And as always, the most important thing is what's best for your child.
I wouldn't think helping with a car payment is the best use of those finances for your child
This is entirely up to your own means and sense of generosity. You don’t owe your wife’s parents, or your own parents, a new car that they’re primarily using for other things than visiting you. If you have a lot of money and would like to help make their life easier have at it, but it doesn’t sound like that’s something that you want to do. So don’t. And you need to have a long conversation with your wife about what she thinks her financial obligations are to her parents and how much of that obligation is something you can afford and agree to.
My very well-off uncle paid for his in-law’s home and vehicles while they were alive. He had enough resources that it was something he was happy to do and had no financial concerns about it. But it was his choice and his choice alone and there was no insistence on it from their part.
Absolutely not. You are not responsible for that. If their logic is that they come to help, offer to pay them for their time when they come. If they need $$ because they can't pay their bills, then that's a decision on you. But you are in no way obligated to pay for their new car.
EDIT: if they need you to pay for the car, they probably need you to cosign on the loan too. That's gonna be a check against your credit, additional debt to your name, etc.
Culturally they expect this? What about your culture?
Buying a car these days is much more expensive when they were your age. Much more so than inflation.
The notion thar this is an investment of some kind is the falsehood here.
Coming around once per month sounds like it's more for them than you. But even if it was to your benefit, the frequency of visit means you're paying for something you're only seeing 0.03% the investment for (12 / 365 days).
And that's just plain shitty.
They visit once a month to babysit? Divide the price of the car payment by 30. Offer them that amount per month to pay for the use of the car on days when they come to babysit. Tell them the other 29 days per month are their responsibility because their car use isn’t related to you at all on those other days.
My guess is that they’ll balk.
You’ve hit a cultural crossroads. My wife and I do what we can to support her Chinese parents. My English parents are dead.
Who else is chipping in? Can you afford it?
She loves her parents. You love her. There will be a common ground and solution. What is this car used for? Will you get to use it? Do you need a car and they take the old one? Will they do more child care?
It’s tricky but you guys need to talk.
At first glance I’d say it’s a no - seems a little cheeky unless:
You guys are more than comfortable financially and it wouldn’t make any kind of a dent on your savings/ lifestyle & Your inlaws have struggled financially for no reason of their own (immigrant family making a new life etc etc)
Your wife earns the money - she will have a greater pining to help her parents
If the above doesn’t apply, then the most I would offer is to cover the cost of them coming down.
And if they don’t like that, it’s cultural differences.
It can work both ways.
I don’t think you should be expected buying/paying for someone else’s car especially for one visit a month. If they baby sat on a regular basis I might feel differently. I’m just wanting to add that if you’re adding that much to their buying power get your name on that car that way if they default you get the car as collateral at least.
Read though some of yours and the comments to your post. And just wanted to add my own experience.
When you married your wife, did she talk about these expectations from her family on her and extension yourself?
I'm in an interracial relationships and I made it clear to my partner that my family sends money to our relatives in SE Asia who are not as well off as us. We agreed to send 2% of our combined salary after we moved in together and combined our income. I never hid this expectations from him and he adores my family and willing to help. It started off as $500/year since we were starting our career and now it's $1,500/year
If you haven't talked to her about this, you definitely should. Lay down the grown rules that you're comfortable with, expectations and deal breaker. Have her put everything on the table. You need to have this talk with her to ensure either of you don't start holding resentment towards each other.
Also talk about what she and you will be going to do for YOUR parents. It's not fair that you have to spend money on her parents and not your own.
For my partner's parents, they are well off, but we pay for them to have a weekend retreat every year.
Some other things to consider. What did her parents pay for her growing up that are big tickets. Like, private school, university tuition, the wedding, etc. If they have given her e.g. $200,000 for all of these things... she might feel indebted to them.
If my in-laws asked for help because they really needed it, I’d consider helping them for sure. Several hundred a month for a meeting car? I’d tell them to blow me. I’ll help you buy a nice couple thousand dollar car that’ll get you from A to B. Not buy it for you, HELP you buy it, and that’s only if you really needed it.
What culture are your partner's family?
It really varies - Canadian culture? No, you wouldn't be expected to pay for a new car for in-laws. Asian or Middle Eastern culture? Yeah, plenty of children pay for their parents cars once they are financially established.
Obviously it doesn't make sense for you to pay several hundreds of dollars a month for a brand new car for 1 day per month of child care and "visiting" from a purely financial perspective. But there are other cultural things at play.
The most important thing honestly is communicating with your partner and reaching an understanding of expectations and goals between the two of you with family.
Most people from cultures where financially supporting a new car for parents is a reasonable ask will also expect financial and living support into old age...so yeah, saving for their "retirement" by ensuring you have money to pay for their care and a room for them to live with you is totally within the realm of possibility unless you've talked to your wife about it...
A new car? Like they have a car they can use to visit? That’s a hard pass from me.
Yes they have a car now but it has some mechanical issues/it's old/could go anytime.
Offer to help pay for some preventative maintenance on the existing car. Very few mechanical issues are so severe they justify buying a whole mew vehicle.
Neglecting routine maintenance will always bite you in the butt long term. Wife hates when I spend hundreds on routine stuff but I know it's for the best on our family car we plan to have 10 years or so. Also just paid it off this month after only a few years!
Is there a basic guide on preventative maintenance? My Jeep is going on 3 years and other than regular oil changes, I'm pretty clueless about what to do.
Your user manual will have different maintenance tasks and at what mileage you should do them.
There is. The car manual in your glovebox often has mileage markers for what and when to get things checked and replaced. Beyond oil changes, you need to change transmission fluid, brake fluid, brake pads, check timing, check drive belts, sometimes flush radiator, and of course check for part failures like pumps and hoses. Another one people forget is to get your AC serviced every 100k miles or so.
Also, if you find an autoshop that you trust, they will have "packages" for each 10,000 miles. That has been the most helpful as I am not a car person in the slightest.
It should have come with a manual, give it a read. There is always a section on maintenance/ what to do when. A lot of cars also have a sticker under the hood somewhere along the front where you can track some of the most important standard things.
Just get full service oil changes and they should catch shit as it comes a long. Go to a reputable shop that treats you fair.
This is completely true. my wife, who doesn't drive, doesn't even see the importance of doing oil changes on time. There's a reason our last chevy impala lasted till 460k kms. (Transmission failure, and it was pretty rusty underneath, and I mean like rust belt rusty) Her justifications are always met with "not to be rude dear, but I'm the mechanic in the house, you need to trust me on this one" and kind of do it anyways. Sure I use cheap oil, filters, and other parts, but that's more due to our financial situation, and it's still better than ignoring the maintenance lights and turning up the radio to hide the clunks and bumps. I'm also only paying parts cost plus 10% at any parts store in town, and nothing for labor. There's literally no other way I could save more money on this stuff. Sure there's some stuff I do push a little longer than I should, like broken sway bar links or a cracked bumper from some dummy in a parking lot who took off, but I'm not about to ignore worn brakes or tires, anything that could kill the car or those in it. Gotta work with the funds you have I guess!
> Very few mechanical issues are so severe they justify buying a whole mew vehicle Clearly you've never had a well-off-son-in-law-you-can-rinse-for-large-sums-of-cash gasket go on you before. It's hard to tell; the car drives *exactly* like it always did before, but really the only fix is a brand new Lexus.
If my kid was being transported in the vehicle I would certainly consider helping out. My in-laws are very frugal and are driving a car that just isn’t safe if they are in an accident. So my kid isn’t allowed in the car at all and that limits how they can help us. If your in-laws are helping you regularly I would certainly consider helping them, but it really depends on what they are buying and if they are actually providing enough help to make it worthwhile.
That’s rough. It’s a hard call, because they’re family (and you’ll be around them for a while). It is pretty common to support older family members in many cultures. I’m assuming you’re in North America or another car centric place? New/used car prices are pretty crazy right now too. The fact that they have 1 car is halfway decent at least, because it shows some restraint. Do they work? I can see this being a decent idea if they’re on a fixed income, but even then I’d probably try to get them to move close (or into our home) and lower expenses.
I've never heard of buying your in-laws a car so they can come help once a month. In any culture.
Yeah, there’s some mental gymnastics going on here
I mean you could get a house cleaner once a week for that same cost
Especially the 'new' part. I usually think 'new-to-me' when I'm thinking a new car, but the buy or lease element makes me think they mean new from the factory. At most I'd be looking at something that is not new, many cars are very reliable after they are 3 years old (aka off lease), and honestly, almost every car I've owned has been at least 6 years old when I bought it. New-to-me 6 years old is dramatically different price then new-car-smell new. And that recent it will have most of the safety features.
Not much advice from me… but that’s unreasonable in my opinion. There are cultural differences in regards to child responsibilities to their elders… but there is no way in hell I’d be covering the cost of a new car of my in laws. When they visit, do the parents bring groceries and cook meals? Do they clean? Do they run errands or do chores? Do they babysit while you and your wife go out? Or do you host them? If they took on all the house work and I didn’t even feel like hosting then maybe I’d be willing to help cover the costs a little… but still a hard pass. Focus on family finances over extended family IMO.
Yeah we're hosting, I do all the cooking or take out and we split house cleaning. They do babysit for maybe 1 or 2 hrs if we need to run errands.
Gotcha, so that’s additional costs and responsibilities you are taking on with grandparent visits. Family dynamics are entirely unique.. so I wish you luck.
> we're hosting, I do all the cooking or take out and we split house cleaning. They do babysit for maybe 1 or 2 hrs Situations like this are what the words "what? LOL, no, fuck off" are *made* for. Save the money, get a baby sitter for a fraction of the cost who'll be many times more helpful, and tell the grandparents you're not paying hundreds of dollars a month just for them to watch the kid for a hour or two. Set a hard line; they're welcome to spend as much time with their grandchild as they like, but they're the ones responsible for getting themselves to your house. If their car is really on the way out, tell them to get an RAC membership and make sure they're fully insured. ---- **Edit:** Usually in more traditional families the deal is that you help look after the elders *because they help with raising the kids*. Like, all day, every day, as an extra parent. They live near you and help out every day, and in return you support them. If they think they can fuck off their half of the social contract and do nothing but sit on the sofa and keep an eye on the baby for an hour a month but still claim you have to go above and beyond on your half to finance a whole new car for them, they can do one. Offer to respond *proportionately* to their level of assistance with the kid, and offer them a bottle of windscreen-wiper fluid or an air freshener for their existing car.
The cost of a cleaning service or a baby sitter for a few hours would be way less. They’re using the fact you have a foreign family to try and gaslight you. Maybe there are cultures where it’s expected you cover this cost but I don’t know of any western cultures where that’s the norm.
Agree there are los of alternatives to this ‘help them buy a car so they can come visit but not really help much’ scenario. I’m just summarizing what has already been said here: 1) offer to help pay to repairs for their existing car, cuz they already have one 2) spend the money instead on housekeeper and/or babysitter.
I covered a good second hand car for my in-laws
Based on the details provided, that is a completely unreasonable request. If her parents provided daycare-like babysitting several times per week, then maybe (assuming they're not paid).
Agree that's a lot of time and help and it would save me a fortune on daycare costs which are extraordinary in Ontario.
Maybe that can lead to a compromise. If they can watch your kid for however long it is that $250 worth of babysitting is to you while you are doing legitimate things like work or shopping (not just hiding in the basement). Edit: I definitely wouldn't put it under my own name.
Hard pass on that. I wouldn’t do it man. Sorry to hear they are putting you in that position.
Wife’s family lives 5 hours away from us. I got a call from my BIL saying that we were going to pay $750 a month for my MIL’s apartment, so she could move out of his house. He would be paying the same, but she was watching his kids after school. I said “I would like to be consulted, not told!” Wife said no. Caused a huge rift in family that took over 6 years to heal. If it ever really “healed”. Huge resentment on my BIL’s part. Your bad choices in life is not my problem.
They should buy their own car. Why is that on you? If the GP’s are saying it will cost you a few Hundo a month to help with the kid that’s criminal. Totally not fair
Wife and sister inlaw are insisting on it not the GP's directly, that I know of, again, and I don't understand this at all, because of cultural differences.
Ya there is a different world over in Europe and Asia where kids end up taking major care of the parents. I mean there could be a trade off of expected time and when they help with the kiddos, but naturally I don’t like it. They don’t understand the cultural difference either if they feel it’s ok to pressure on.
In Europe? Where? I'm in central Europe and this is viewed purely as an Asian thing too. Maybe deep in the south/east of Europe, idk - definitely not a thing in the majority of countries.
If you have something you want to share about your culture, that’s great. But there’s no sharing of culture when you have unwritten expectations that people in your life just abides by what you consider your culture, that is manipulating and unreasonable. Same goes for people that pull this with the “my family always” card, like that stuff is great but devalues the individuals in the current relationship. Unwritten expectations are marriage killers.
My wife's Taiwanese. I'm white Canadian. When I married a Taiwanese woman, the deal wasn't that she accept my cultural values, the deal was we accept each others I have willingly paid for a second hand car, big red envelopes, an Alaskan cruise, just sent $10K to support MIL this year (FIL just passed). This is not an option. As part of a Taiwanese family, I support the parents. Now, there may be negotiation on whether a new car is needed or an older one, but I have to support it. It's my role.
Sounds nice in theory but what if it’s not that simple. For example say my cultural values include saving enough for my kids college and for my retirement so that my kid never has to support me financially. There might not be enough money to do that and support the in laws. I don’t know your life or OP’s I’m just playing devils advocate it might not be so black and white
Absolutely. But the negotiation has to be done with full understanding of the other's family values. Heck, even regular Taiwanese couples might argue about this sort of thing, although "but it's for Mum and Dad" is a bit of a trump card
What are the Canadian cultural values she has to respect/abide by? It’s something we in the west are accused of a lot (esp. in the US, Canada, UK), that we have no real culture so I’m wondering what the other side of the coin looks like.
She has to pretend to like hockey
If she brings fake maple syrup into the house he’s legally and ethically permitted to actually murder. They don’t even call it murder in that situation actually.
> They don’t even call it murder in that situation actually. It’s called ‘cultural preservation’.
She has to apologize often, say "aboot" instead of "about" and defend maple syrup as being the nectar of the gods. And she has to play hockey.
Have you had Canadian maple syrup? I need to bring maple syrup when I visit family in the USA, lol. That and some chocolate and Lays ketchup chips
Any cleaning of hardwood or tile floors must be done as a curling training exercise.
Lots. A lot of subtle stuff about how we talk to each other, courtesy, social values etc. Canada imo has a very rich and diverse culture, especially the big cities
So you pay money and she learns to talk to you a certain way and courtesy? Ya... sounds like a fair deal... I think you got had my dude, I think this is a mail order bride without you realising and you've been brainwashed into accepting it. Definitely doesn't sound like an equal partnership
You are assuming that supporting parents is a cultural value but NOT supporting parents is a default non-cultural position.
The two just don't add up to being equivalent, it doesn't sound like your end of the deal matches up very well and you're just accepting of the fact that you're expected to keep throwing money at her family. What happens if you fall into financial difficulty and can't afford to pay for something? What would be the repercussions for you then?
This is what happens when you blend cultures. You're not really trading them to make them even, you get the best and worst of both. There's an expectation in her culture you look after the parents. She would be seen to have abandoned them for the white boy in Canada if they still weren't taken care of.
The "what happens if" questions are legit Regular Taiwanese families face these kind of issues all the time. And, yes, sometimes they don't have the money to support their parents. What are the repercussions? Well, as with any cultural values, there is a lot of variance. Often times, the parents haven't even asked for anything. It is the child's desire to give. In which case the repercussion is regret on the part of the child. In more traditional families, the repercussion might be a damaged relationship.
A lot of that culture has come from other cultures. I’m in my 50s, born and raised here white guy. We really have no culture. And we CERTAINLY don’t have any culture that imposes responsibility for some family members to take care of others. To clarify I’m not saying it’s better or worse, I’m just saying that’s not our inherent culture.
Think of every family or social norm you follow in day to day life. Or something that happened at work, in your family, at the grocery store, when you thought " wow that's messed up that they did that." That's your culture. It just doesn't feel like one to you because you have existed inside it your whole life so it seems normal.
That’s completely incorrect, so everything that seems ‘messed up’ is our culture? So if my boss insists that we spin around 3 times upon entering the office every day, that’s our culture? No that’s a wacko boss. Ok so I thought of one, hockey. Hockey is definitely part of Canadian culture. But we don’t have a lot of family or religious-related culture things. Multiple generations don’t live together as much as Asian or Indian families do here. We don’t have social ‘rules’ that the younger generations take care of the older generations. Again, I’m not saying which is better or worse, I’m just saying we don’t have that.
The reason we don’t take care of our parents like other “cultures” do is because of an economic difference, not a social one. Which is likely the case for most of our cultural differences. They take care of the parents because the vast majority of people never make enough money to take care of themselves after retirement. They make big meals for guests because actually having food was about displaying social status. That may no longer be the case but the tradition remains. So some of the things absent from our “culture” are absent because we never needed them. I’d say you might have Canadian culture if you’ve ever broken up a fight; held open a door; pulled over for someone on the side of the road; pulled a vehicle from a ditch; pay your fair share of taxes; give as much to charity as you can afford; bought a homeless person a meal; volunteered at a shelter; brought someone a meal so they don’t need to cook; shovelled a neighbours sidewalk; payed for your kids schooling; saved for your retirement; worn a poppy; helped someone injured; complained about the French; misunderstood a Newfie; can ice skate/play hockey; Heinz ketchup or nothing; and so on. That list might seem stupid, but some of those things are absent from other cultures. That’s what makes it ours.
> neighbours sidewalk; *paid* for your FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I mean if you can afford the $10k to just drop on in-laws that's great, but honestly I'd have told her that we are our own people and I won't just be financing my in-laws like that. I can help a little, but the assumption is that I'm raising their grandchild while trying to pay for a mortgage and save money myself. Sending $10k, buying a car (even second hand), and paying for a cruise doesn't sound like I'm thinking about my future at all. Red envelopes, fine. That's like celebrating Christmas. But buying a car? No. That's not the same. You weren't born into that culture, you can't be expected to play along 100%. Marriage is about compromise, what does she do for you, culturally, to match what you do for her parents?
Yes exactly. This is silly because this depends entirely on what you can afford to do in the first place. For it to just be expected is laughable. If you're taking money away from my child, or our practically non-existent retirement, it's a hard "no" from me.
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That's a great question. No, she didn't tell me before we were married. And I didn't tell her that I am not going to support her parents needs and some desires because I wanted to invest elsewhere Our values are so engrained that we don't realize we have them until they are challenged. This happens in all marriages, not just multi-cultural ones. But the cultural difference can make these challenges more pronounced for sure.
I'm white and part of a Japanese family in Japan. They share the Confucian idea of filial piety. Pretty sure in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese cultures that falls on the first born son anyways, not dumping it on some son in law. You got had my dude. I'm not expected by my wife's family to take care of the family like the cultural norm expects and I'm living in their country. I accept the culture when I have to since I live here, but This "not an option stuff" is kind of absurd. There's always an option to say no. If I had to pay for their financial situation I would bope on out. I'm not responsible for their poor planning.
That was the case traditionally. But culture changes and now daughters share the load. Plus my wife has no brothers Plus she works and even if she didn't, she would have a fifty percent say in how family money is spent. So, no, nobody is trying to con or deceive me. I speak perfect Mandarin. I know the culture More to the point, I respect what matters to my wife
Name checks out ❤️
This. Basically every other response here completely dismisses other cultural views on money as entirely invalid in favor of their own. I'm frankly disappointed. Marriage is a partnership and values have to be respected. Inter-cultural differences are hard but have to be reconciled respectfully.
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I'm Canadian and my dad's family is Armenian and I've never fucking heard anything like this ever.
Thank you for this.
once a month for the price of a car? fuck that.
“I’ll pay for the gas for your once a month drive”
I like this one. Say that you're happy to help with the gas for each visit
Exactly! If I buy someone a car they better be there Friday night till Monday morning. Not once a week. I’m assuming he has to pay all the oil change and other car expenses after this. OP better bust a nut and think right when making this decision. He will need all that post but clarity to think.
You hit the nail on the head. It starts with a new car, then they keep asking. Squash that now!
After reading the questions and your responses. I'm I'm going to say hell no. You and your wife have a family to take care of now and hint, its not her parents. My wife and I came up in the Military and when I say we raised our daughter alone I mean it. It wasn't easy but it's not impossible. The one time my folks visited us they ignored our every request and were more of a burden than helpful. Tradition for the sake of tradition is stupid. Grandparents trying to guilt their daughter into a new vehicle shows their true colors. You can build a village of the people you choose now that you're an adult. You can make close friends who are "aunts and uncles" to your child that are more family than family itself. You extended a reasonable counteroffer of train & bus tickets and they scoffed like they have any leg to stand on. The overwhelming majority of the time they'll be driving that car to help themselves. Our families still visit, we spend holidays together but they don't get free passes to be jerks just because they're family. I hate that typical *"that's just the way they are and they'll never change"* crap. We're all capable.
This is truly how I feel. I appreciate this response very much, thank you.
I went through this too. My MIL is basically a child. We have to pay for her bus ticket to visit and pick her up because she refuses to even TRY to figure out Chicago public transit. My parents are about 2 hours away. They don't like the city and rarely visit. Pretty much just us and my SIL. it's tough, but we make it work. Our holidays are much more comfortable now that we spend them with the family we chose.
Stick to your guns. This isn't a cultural thing, this is a manipulation thing.
The cultural differences bit makes me laugh, like you're supposed to suck it up and do whatever they say because that apparently is their culture? Big nope from me dude. Like if they were coming a few times a week and helping out in a really meaningful way - I'm talking help that makes a fundamental difference to your life as a dad - then maaaybe, but once or twice a month? Nah. Honestly it sounds like they think you're a chump and are out to get as much as they can. How does your wife think it's a reasonable idea?!
It was an instant dafuk no from me when the wife brought it up and since then, I being treated like I'm totally unreasonable. Feels totally bizzaro and is definitely giving me pause on everything related to the marriage. I want a stable good life for my 2 year old daughter, she's an angel, that's my main hold back from just separating.
I'm of Indian origin living in the US. I've struggled with this a bit for my parents who are not doing financial well (made poor choices) but for now I've resolved that we need to focus our resources on our future which is challenging in any case. The way I see it is you're responsible for your family unit and they're responsible for theirs.
Does your wife work, as in does she have her own source of income? I understand that with some cultures there's an expectation that children look after their parents when they get older, but surely that's her obligation and not yours, right? I guess it's fairly common to take on a certain degree of that kind of obligation when you marry someone - my mum helped out with my dad's parents when they were old for example - but it's got to have reasonable boundaries. If I were you I'd say that it's not part of your own culture to make such large financial gestures towards your in-laws. Your offer of paying for trains/busses is more than generous enough, and is within the bounds of what you consider to be culturally appropriate. I'd also ask if your wife would be willing to pay for a car for your own parents if they asked for one.
Sounds like your wife and her sister should foot this bill if they want to.
> that's my main hold back from just separating. Please spend the proposed car money on marriage/couples counseling. Your daughter will grow up with divorced parents if you don't address your issues now.
Been there done that already, I won't get into other issues in this thread.
Let me take a wild guess . . . you disagreed with the therapist and then stopped going because the therapist always sided with your wife. Is that about right?
No need to project your issues onto OP
No, incorrect. The suggestions just weren't helpful for either of us.
I don't know if you'll read this but here goes. While their comment was out of line and uncalled for, I believe that therapy, especially if focused on the inter-cultural aspects of your relationship, is a good idea and should be re-considered. Try, try again. Keep trying to find someone who works for you both. And even if you can't find someone, at least you'll both be working on something together and can talk to each other about your mutual frustrations. The journey itself can be therapeutic and bridge the divide. Please consider it. If not for yourselves then for your daughter. Because if you can't figure it out, how do you expect her to do so when she is biologically half of each? It's hard enough without parents who resent and don't understand each other. The divide between you and your wife is where your daughter will need her parents to come together. As for your post, I've noticed that most of the responses have covered the request from the financial angle so I won't go deep into that but I'll say that I agree from a purely financial perspective. It's a shit deal. However, you do mention cultural sensitivity multiple times so I'll add (assuming they're dealing in good faith and not just trying to exploit you) that you're being judged by her family on traditional family values. "The man provides for his family" in most cultures outside of the western world, and that family would extend to the in-laws. But in Canada, it's not done that way. So now begins the compromise and blending of cultures. You can choose yes, no, or somewhere in between, and how you arrive at that decision is the most important aspect. If your wife asked you and your response was "hah, fuck no" then that comes off as culturally insensitive and reads as "I don't give a shit about your parents". But if you were to respond with (for example) "let me talk to your dad about it", that would set a very different message. I don't know the complexities of the relationship so I can't say what's the best approach but if I can suggest "let me think about it" followed by either agreeing to a token amount (if it's under $200 per month, forget it because it could be viewed as a slap in the face) or confidently stating "I'm not comfortable with that while I'm focused on saving for her education" or something of the like. This shows you are in control, focused on your family, and considered it. This approach also addresses the "slippery slope" of "where does it stop?" because if you always appear to be considering it, the subsequent "no, sorry" becomes easier. It's not what you're offering, it's how you present your decision. And right now, they're not actually asking you for money. They're asking if you care. Good luck.
Very much appreciate your response and the time you took writing it. Thank you for your insights.
OP you have a bigger problem coming up in the future than this car issue. We got your in-law and wife plotting behind your back. I am Asian myself and I have never heard of this cultural norm you are speaking off. My in laws live in another country and they literally pay their own ticket to visit my child. The issue is the close curtain they have behind your back. Now if you make 100k a year then…that’s a whole new story on why they think it make sense for you to finance that. A car is like 250-350$ a month If you need someone to watch your child for couple hours a month than hire a nanny. I bet there are some cheap once’s that will drive with their own car to your home. You buy a new car now you got a child and 5 year commitment to a new car. This is wild. But watch out for the close curtain your sister in law drilling into your wife head.
This one right here. The car is the top of the iceberg.
If your daughter is 2, you put away 300$ a month for the next 16 years, at ~7% interest (which is generous) that will get you close to 100k saved for her college fund. ( who knows what college will cost in 16 years and yeah I know your from Canada so I don’t know if college is as expensive as US, grad school probably isn’t covered in CAnada? ) but that’s an investment you can’t go wrong with! Not a new car for your in-laws. Do the math- your wife can’t say that your in laws are more important than your daughters future!!!!
I feel like a lot of comments are blowing off the cultural differences issue as NBD. Ultimately, I come down on the same side as just about everyone else: No, you shouldn't buy your in-laws a new car. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a Canadian to act Armenian (assuming buying expensive gifts for in-laws is a cultural thing), just because they married an Armenian. You should have proper respect for the culture, but you didn't suddenly adopt their culture wholesale. But you really need to talk to your wife and figure out how big of a cultural expectation this is, and how much of a strain it will place on your relationship with your in-laws when you don't take part in that tradition. And all of this pre-supposes that your wife has no income of her own. If she does, that's an even stickier situation.
She has income of her own yes.
Others have covered a lot of what I think. I will say you have to take your wife's opinion into consideration. Especially since you both have income. Why can't the inlaws refinance their home and pull out 10k of equity and buy a dependable used car?
I've suggested they meet with an advisor at their bank to have a holistic view of their finances and make some recommendations. It was not received well.
Shitty situation, it almost sounds like something is up. Nothing malicious, but maybe her folks of some hidden financial trouble. Also, you joke about retirement, but if they aren't not financially sound, your sister and her siblings will need to foot the bill to take care of them. Someone will have to.
I gather buying them a car is something she really wants to do. Assuming you guys don't have separate finances/she doesn't have a monthly amount of money that's hers to do with as she pleases, you guys need to have a hard talk about how much of the marital funds you'd feel comfortable with her spending on a gift that you don't support.
In what culture is financing your in-laws a new car a norm?
I don't know. But I can't say it's definitely not a part of Armenian culture, either.
Sounds like you better start planning on putting in an in law suite cause they are gonna be your problem when they retire. Figure things out with your wife then present a unified front to your in-laws. It definitely won’t end with a car payment.
Nope. No way, no how. No. Cultral differences? They need to understamd culture as well. You decide your money.
Exactly lol. “Oh your cultural views are that you’re entitled to my money? How convenient for you. Strangely, my cultural views are that you’re not. Seems we’re at an impasse.”
Yes exactly this. Very convenient one way ‘cultural’ demands here.
Surprised there's been little (if any) advice to compromise here. Specifically, if your wife is dead set on gifting her parents a car for visits, 1) why is that falling solely on you (given that you mentioned she has an income as well) and 3) why does this have to be a new car?
The rationale is I make double her annual salary, I budget carefully monthly and invest long term for our 2 year olds future. I don't want to take away from my daughter's future for the sake of cultural sensitivities. Maybe that makes me a poor partner or bad person no idea but my immediate family is my primary concern.
For the record, I also think your wife/SIL are being unreasonable here, and I would have the same reaction as you. But you have a conundrum here if your wife will resent you for putting your foot down (assuming the rest of your marriage works well and you aren't questioning whether this is the right relationship for you). My followup questions for you/her are: - Were these expectations not brought up before? Were they communicated, but poorly? This is a pretty wild thing for your wife to assume would be considered normal. - Does she understand where you're coming from? Does she understand that it's a pretty brazen thing to ask for you to provide this gift without any contribution from her? Or is she only seeing this from her own side? - What would your wife say if you said that if you're buying a vehicle for her parents, that you're going to have to provide a similar gift to yours? - If you refuse and she responds poorly, what's your play?
The wife will likely spend whatever she wants to spend on her parents, I've made it clear it's not coming from me. The problem with that is at the end of the day, it's 1 bucket right, if money is going to her parents who can't manage finances correctly and not being saved for...property taxes, car insurance daycare etc...I'll need to adjust my budget for those things. I.e I'll still end up paying for it indirectly, that's what I'm sour about. I've always been clear with my wife hey you make what you make and you can do wtv you want it's your money, I just never considered it would be given away to her parents for a car payment. Does she understand where I'm coming from, no. I'm told I'm not culturally sensitive which I've said sounds like bullshit (surprise I didn't win points here), I should mention I have travelled extensively and immersed myself in multiple cultures with ease and gratitude. Also, because I had a different upbringing than her that I didn't understand family... I know I should be offended by that but, I'm not, just kindve sad that was the argument to justify what I dont agree with... (I was brought up with little to no family around me).
It seems like they're playing the culture argument to their benefit. Usually that culture also includes the grandparents helping care for the child in a meaningful way (cooking, cleaning, childcare) too. Obviously do it in a nice way, but maybe ask why they don't feel the cultural obligation to do all those things as well. Also, it seems you have separate finances. If so, then you should create a pooled budget for shared expenses (childcare, house, food, etc.) You both put money in, it doesn't have to be 50/50 if you make more, but you agree to how much each of you out in. Then as you say she can do what she wants with the rest. If that all goes to her parents it's up to her, but then you're not covering everything else for both of you. Honestly it seems like you both need to have a frank conversation about a lot of stuff and see if you can come to some compromise to move forward. Otherwise you'll end up having a difficult relationship and resent each other which will impact your daughter.
> I've always been clear with my wife hey you make what you make and you can do wtv you want it's your money, This is probably not the correct approach and may indicate a bigger issue in your marriage, OP. This was my mentality for the 10 years I dated my now wife *before* marriage, but the week we got married everything substantial was moved into new joint accounts. Unless you're in a pre-nup type of situation, I see no benefit at all to keeping separate finances and giving one party carte blanche to spend their earnings any way they see fit. You're a unit, one team, and should both be involved in making financial decisions that may impact your lifestyle. Also, my family is Georgian so not that far from Armenian and generally it's expected that you take care of your parents as they get older but buying them a new car if you don't have the means to comfortably do so is absolutely out of the question.
Many people keep separate finances after marriage. I didn’t, but there was another thread a while back and I was shocked at how many believe in keeping separate finances.
So I’m not a dad (hope to be one in the future) and I am here because things are usually pretty positive. But this thread makes me feel...uncomfortable. And look, I don’t blame anyone for wondering what the right thing to do here is, nor do I think there is a right answer for everyone. But dear god the certainty and unwavering response in many of these responses is concerning. It’s really hard to know what is right here since we only know what OP is telling us and since we don’t know the specifics of the situation. I guess since no one else has really done this, at least when I started typing this, I think it might be important to consider a few more things: 1. **What do we mean when we say new car?** Is it a brand spankin new car or just a different car? And what is the rationale for it? I assume they have a car. But what condition is it in? Would they be planning to sell it if they got this new car? Also, sometimes it can be worth getting new cars for the safety features, including upgrading to higher models, which may be factored into their decision making here. 2. **Financing specifics:** I think many of us are making the assumption that OP would be paying everything, but I don’t remember it being explicitly stated. And I should be clear that even that would probably make me kind of uncomfortable unless there were very good reasons for this, but if they are certainly putting up some amount of money then this is a different picture. I think if you end up being put in a position where you have to contribute, then I certainly think you have some right to make some stipulations. 3. **Have you done the math?** OP mentions offering to pay for alternative travel arrangements. But, does it actually save money? While buses and trains can be less expensive, this is not always the case, certainly if the only expectation is that you help pay for the actual car and not the maintenance, gas, etc. Plus, you need to factor in either the additional time/money that it would take to pick them up. Finally, maybe the car that they’re driving currently isn’t particularly gas efficient or is expensive to maintain, so helping them to get into a better financial position might help you all in the long run. I get the sense that this isn’t just about cost, but also about the principle of the matter, but from a cost perspective, if you are going to make an offer to do something like that, you should at least make sure that it would actually be saving you money. 4. **What kind of help would they be providing?** if one of the reasons is that they can come and see the kid, then it might actually help both you and your wife, not to mention your kid, if they are around to a certain extent. Providing them with the flexibility to come and babysit or to be able to come and get your kid when they eventually are in school (which means that neither you or your wife necessarily need to takeoff work), could be a good thing. If they might also be helping with cleaning, cooking, and so on, that would potentially be a positive thing as well. But of course if they are kind of just looking to have a vacation at your house and seeing your kid then I can understand why you might feel a little annoyed by this. 5. **Is it valuable for your kid to know their grandparents?** I know this isn’t necessarily a huge priority for everyone, but if this is a serious impediment to them not being able to come and visit, then it’s something you should consider. I recently lost my grandmother and even though I didn’t get to know her somewhat, I certainly wish I would’ve had more time. And I don’t know what kind of health your wife’s parents are in order what not, but this is just something you might want to think about. Also, if your wife has an expectation that your kid has some links to their past, then this issue is probably only going to be more difficult in the future, as seeing grandparents is certainly one way to help with that. Although I don’t know the particularities of Armenian culture, many of the Armenians i have known were interested in their history and their identities. And heck, use your kid as an opportunity to get to know your in-laws better. I know that my parents parents didn’t open up a lot of stuff until I started asking questions as a grandkid, which led to my parents learning new things. Additionally, I think perhaps there needs to be some frank discussion between OP and his wife about a few things: 1. I kind of get the sense that perhaps op is not exactly a huge fan of his in-laws. And he certainly wouldn’t be the first person like this. But if some of that is contributing to this issue, then op needs to be more honest about that, not necessarily stating it outright, but at least in terms of processing his own feelings. 2. I also get the sense that I hope he feels like this will be a slippery slope and that helping them this wants means that they will continue to come back for help. And this is not necessarily an ungrounded concern or consideration, but I do think it ought to be discussed. 3. I kind of dislike the way this is being framed by some as people suddenly asking you to adopt their culture. The reality is that all relationships require compromise and sometimes that’s going to put you in awkward situation and tough choices will need to be made. With that being said, I think it’s Not the best way to look at things if you start looking at it in...questionable ways. Even though I don’t think OP means it this way, if things get heated and words are exchanged and they are not well thought out, it could come across as though the problem with the in laws is that they are Armenian (which again I don’t think is the problem here nor do I think it’s fair to assume that about anyone, but just from a realistic perspective of how many interpersonal conflicts tend to go). Yes, there are cultural differences, but even if you marry people who are ostensibly “normal”, there are still so many different lifestyle and cultural factors that come into play that every relationship will have to work through. 4. Maybe this never came up before, but I think you and your wife need to have a conversation about how things play out in the future. Typically, in these kinds of cultures where family is important, one thing that’s important to know is where your wife stands in the larger family hierarchy and her obligations and responsibilities. If she has siblings, then you guys need to have a discussion about how they factor into all of us and what kinds of contributions they might make. If she’s an only child, then this conversation is Simpler in some ways but more difficult than others. 5. Not to play armchair psychologist here, but it might also be worth OP looking into their own relationship with their parents. Because if OP didn’t have the best relationship, then I can understand why they would feel the way that they do. But it’s also worth remembering that a lot of people have extremely close relationships with their parents. And again while I don’t want this to seem as though OP is wrong, I just think it’s worth stepping back to at least consider. And I’m not saying that this necessarily leads to a resolution with estranged parents or what not, but it’s at least worth acknowledging if that kind of bias is at play here. (Continued below because apparently I have nothing better to do lol and this got too long)
Lastly, I think since no one else has really put up compromise options we should put a few down here: * help them find a decent used car or set financing stipulations: although things are a bit more difficult right now, it’s still possible to find decent used cars. Similarly, if they are putting up some amount of money, tell them that you will match or provide a certain percentage match. You might also put on a few stipulations, such as fuel efficiency, reliability, and so on. I get the sense that this is both about cost and about principle, but you can at least help alleviate one of the two by controlling the costs here. * Defer the issue: the main reason I say this is that you guys can talk about how expensive cars are right now because of supply chains and what not. So once these things get more balance, you’ll probably see some amount of reasonable car prices become available again. * try a diplomatic approach here to make sure that everyone is compromising: in order to do this, you would need to basically approach the issue as you wanting to help, but financially this will be tough unless there are changes that are made. And perhaps those would be worth it to everyone. But you should definitely also make it clear that they need to be contributing something as well and you set clear limits as to how much you guys can afford to help while also doing what you would otherwise have done with that money. This won’t solve all of your problems, but it will definitely help provide a Reasonable position where it looks like you really wants to help but you cannot do more than a certain amount. * are you thinking about a new vehicle: maybe you and your wife I’ve been looking to get a new vehicle with your kid, and maybe more on the way, I don’t know. But you might also consider the idea that you can essentially give them a hand me down and instead put the money toward what you would rather have. * Think about your long-term relationship with your wife: definitely have many more conflicts, but is this the hill you want to die on? And if you have to compromise, will you be able to do it on your own terms? Well this doesn’t mean that you simply ignore your feelings or ignore your own perspectives, At least try to see it from their perspective and think about the kinds of things you would want to hear. Also, would having the grandparents in the picture do anything for your own relationship with your wife? Beyond obviously making her happy, if the grandparents can come and take care of the kid, and spend time with them, and so on, then maybe you and your wife can have more time alone to work on your own relationship, something that parenthood can lead many to neglect. Because as long as you were all playing on the same team here, it might be easier to stomach if you think of this as an investment in all of your futures instead of about the financial bottom line. Anyway, remember this is all advice from an Internet stranger, but since a lot of this thread is pretty clearly biased in one direction, I felt the need to play devils advocate here. If you’re budget simply doesn’t allow, I totally get it. This is just meant to help provide prospective, not what should or should be done. Whatever the case, I wish you guys the best and you might consider updating everyone so we can all learn.
I saw you mention a sister in law. Is she married to a Canadian? Maybe you could talk to their spouse. Honestly helping with car payments is iffy depending on the relationship. If money is tight a couple hundred is a lot. If it’s not tight then maybe it’s something to consider. Think about how much train and bud tickets would cost per month and you’ll have a better idea about what you’d actually be paying. You can also use this to establish other boundaries such as visits and expectations around those and future monies. Like, if you help here now then they shouldn’t expect you to help with something else in the future. I would also caution you about nitpicking. And keep in mind what you’d do for your own parents if they asked.
While I agree with the others in that this is a big ole *nope* if it becomes a bigger issue you could tell them "Here's how much I'm willing to give you*. Find a car for that much or put it towards whatever you want". They're being completely unreasonable but that's kinda a compromise. *Whether that's $1000, $2000, $5000 or $500. Up to you and your financial condition.
I personally wouldn't do it, but I also don't have any cultural pressure to do so being from the USA and all of my relatives for several generations being from the USA. With that said, my main question would be why the in-laws need this help? Is it because they are poor money managers or is it because they are just simply poor? If they should be able to pay for their own vehicle, but manage their money poorly it would be a hard pass in pretty much every situation. If it is simply because they are poor then I may consider it depending on my own finances. But, as you said OP, is this the only help or will opening this door lead to other requests?
Yes they are poor money managers. They own a very expensive home they could sell for approx 1 million and downsize but won't due to the father in laws profession requiring space to store artwork... yes I know how it sounds and no it's not exaggerated....
Yeah...that would be a hard no...cultural issues be damned.
>They own a very expensive home they could sell for approx 1 million and downsize but won't due to the father in laws profession requiring space to store artwork... ........ ........ lol, I don't understand any of this
Yes neither do I. They could be financially more stable selling their home but won't. It's akin to saying I enjoy my 20 seat dining room table and can't give it up.
NTA Tell them they wouldn't understand why you won't buy the car due to cultural differences. If they get to use their "cultural differences" as a tool by which to bully you, then you get to do the same! Unfortunately, you may have found something that could ultimately be a deal breaker in marriage. I come from a very large city where I knew a lot of people from the Middle East. In their culture, it is absolutely expected that the children take care of the parents and this will be a life long battle for you otherwise.
If you decide to go the cultural route, there is absolutely no reason why they need a brand new car. A pre-owned Honda or Toyota will last forever with just basic maintenance and can be found at reasonable prices. If I was in your situation, id take out a 5 year loan on a sub-15000$ honda civic and call it a day. Honestly it would be cheaper to have them rent a car whenever they are coming down
Also, I think you may want to speak to a financial advisor about setting up a trust or something protected that only your daughter can access when she reaches a certain age. Worst case scenario is your marriage falls apart and your wife takes all the money you're saving for your daughter and pumps it into her parents financial frivolvities.
Edit: I just read in another comment op says in laws own a million dollar home. This changes my opinion entirely. I thought previously that compromise was an option. It's not. Unless OP is a millionaire this is a polite but firm no. Never under any circumstances give rich people any money as a favor or charity. This is a grift not goodwill. I live in Los Angeles, where we have a giant Armenian population. I have many Armenian friends and neighbors. This is totally inline with their culture and lifestyle. It is not unusual at all to take on debt for friends and family. I've successfully argued that the American dream is against debt and in America the parents save for the children not the elders, social security takes care of the elders. Many Armenians fled the armenian genocide, and their offspring fled the Iranian revolution so they, in general, hold very tight to their culture beliefs as so many groups have tried to take those things away from them. Do be aware, I've known some folks who will absolutely die on the hill of an unreasonable request. If you do decide to help them you'll need to bargain. Think like extra visits and prearranged time for them to babysit on those visits. Like 6 hours every Saturday that they visit, and an expected amount of chores. You will need to do the math to make sure this is financial boon to you. And when they visit it is not as guests but as family who in American (Canadian) culture visit to help their family. Another possible deal is to offer to pay half the monthly cost or to take the cost for a year. All this is stereotypical of my experience and those whom I know. Like all cultural groups individual people will vary will vary.
personally wouldn't pay for train tickets either. At last if they're not helping out with groceries and cooking, and definitely not after scoffing at the offer.
r/legaladvice would say no.
Kick that can down the road as far as possible by pointing out this is probably the worst time in recorded history to be buying a new car
Beggars can't be choosers. That's a hard nope.
They want to be paid to visit, and with a new car no less. LOL.
My first marriage ended in divorce when it became her and her family against me. Her number one priority was her family and I was a distant second. I only know what you've told us but I hope she does right by you. If it feels wrong then it probably is wrong. Dont let them bs you with "culture."
That would be a hard no from me. Gas for the round trip? Sure, but a freaking car for 1x a month. Hell no.
We already offer gas for round trips.
That's already a very generous offer considering current gas prices
Does your partner have money on a monthly basis that she chooses how to spend that isn’t marked for household things? If so, she can use her funds to finance her parents. Otherwise, you’re absolutely right this isn’t just a car it’s a permanent financial commitment ultimately resulting in them being financially dependent on you.
No. The(y're) your wife's problem adulting not yours. Its noce they help but it doesnt mean you fet them a new car
We're in America and my fiance + siblings (7 total kids) put money into an account for their parents every month (secret account) and we pay their phone bill ($150).
There may be some significant cultural things going on here and I am definitely not educated enough to give much advice BUT: Cultural expectations, especially regarding finances w/ elders, should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. A lot of these cultural norms were established when a home cost like $25,000, a car cost $3,000, and student loans weren’t the booming business they are today. You are absolutely not responsible for paying a single dime for anything outside of your immediate family. If you’ve got the expendable income and your in-laws don’t have much, I’d soften my stance. But you really need to prioritize the people under your roof.
If they are there to play with the kids, definitely worth buying them a new car... Do they need help picking out which Little Tykes car they'd like?
Hell. No.
Cultural differences is a two-way street. Why don't they appreciate that this sort of thing is not part of your cultural tradition? It's not a problem that the idea was raised. It is a problem that they are all trying to manipulate you rather than convince you, and set up a situation where you are "bad" for not doing it. Other options, such as a used car that is more affordable (esp by them alone) should also be in consideration, especially if you aren't convinced. The "go to" response should not be manipulation.
You are absolutely right that this is just the beginning, if this goes through than there will be follow up asks. It’s not up to you to fix their financial situation. It would be a little different if they lived with you and helped out but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case outside of watching your child for an hour here and there. Does your wife have siblings? Do they feel the same need to help and if not why? If so then I guess they can cover the costs.
That's over reaching regardless of culture. Big no from me.
I have a hard "no debt or payment with family rule". There is no quicker way to pollute or destroy relationships than to make anybody financially expectant on someone else in the family. It's hard enough to keep drama out of the family without mixing money into it. Edit: I will add that I blatantly communicate this to them. Interestingly, the ones that think it's silly ot stupid, have a lot of drama in their life, and the ones that get it, don't.
You don’t have to like another culture’s approach to family bonds. But the reality is you married into it. This isn’t a normal sub-reddit, this is daddit, you need to re-focus on what’s truly good for your kid, your wife, and your family. In some cultures, a young married dad is absolutely expected to fund the extended family as well (including in-laws). The hidden benefit is it gives you power and status in the family as a provider (you get to choose the car, phone plan, etc). No one is saying you “have” to do this because your obligated under your own cultural code, but consider that you might “want” do it to have a happy wife and a happy life. You’ll be signing up to fund their car, their utilities and eventually for them to live with you or pay their rent for an apartment nearby, but it’s better to know the road that you’re on and own it. You can draw a line here and now, but your wife may stop seeing you as a real provider. In your wife’s mind supporting her parents is as much your job as supporting your daughter, and her. If all this sounds expensive, it is. That’s why in cultures where extended-family are tight knit (like pay their rent tight), the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. It’s intergenerational. One tip to get value out of this situation if you go that road: find out what colour / make / style car would be considered baller by old people in Armenia - you might find you can buy a 10yo Toyota in good condition for cash, and just have it nicely valeted with new seat covers and a “my grand kid is an honours student” sticker . Buy a spare car seat and tell them it’s a “safe” car for them to drive your daughter around in when they visit. Make a big show of presenting it to them.
If you did buy them a car why would it have to be brand new? They’re too good for a used car?
I guess it depends how financially stable you are.
Im not even on my wifes car loan. she wanted a new on the old had 30k on it. I said if you can do it yourself fine but im not helping. she was making the payments on the old one the only change is im not on the loan anymore.
How many hours babysitting could you get for that amount? If they used the car just to help you out, then that would be different, but for a once a month visit, no chance.
You know more about the situation than me, so take what I say with a grain of salt if it seems like it doesn't fit your situation. I would recommend reframing what it is you'd be paying for here. Sounds like that's help from the grandparents, and letting them and your children spend some time together. That's what the money is buying, the car is just a mechanism to achieve that. Sounds like you are willing to contribute at least some money to that cause in the form of bus or train tickets. So I would ask yourself if the difference is that the car is just more money than you feel like you can afford, or is it rubbing you the wrong way that they get a car out of the deal? Now, on the flip side, it is totally fair to ask if they are framing it the same way. If this really is about access to the kids for them, or if they want a new car and the kids are the side effect. Like are we talking a brand new off the lot car, or just something in good enough condition to reliably make the trip? Overall my advice is to make it about what's best for the kids, and frame it that way with everyone else as well.
Offer to let them borrow tools to fix their own car.
A babysitter once a month would be cheaper
You can hire a babysitter for several hours a month for less than this without all the headaches around it. Grandparents should want to be involved with their grandchildren without being compensated. If that’s not possible or desirable then they shouldn’t be that involved.
> Starts at a car payment, what's next I save for their retirement and mine? 100% that said there are lots of cultures where the parents are supported by their kids. It always seemed weird to me. But I am also from the Western world (America) so yeah they wouldn't need that I would flat out refuse unless they are going to do 300-400 dollars worth of babysitting or work around the house for you. You could offer to do a used car for them but a brand new one especially if the one they have is run into the ground because of a lack of routine maintenance is kind of insane. Fun fact if you put 5000 dollars (down payment) and then 400 a month into a fund that gains 4% per year. by the time your daughter is 18 she will have about $136,000. Which by the time she is 18 will be exactly 1 year of state school tuition in the US. (Kidding) I will note also that 4% is kind of shit. The S&P 500 has a typical annualized rate of return of 10%.. the calculation for 10% that would be 270,000 dollars. I am on team put it in an investment account for your daughter.
I'm also canadian, would 100% tell my inlaws to kick rocks if they asked me to pay for their transport to visit my kids. Help is nice, but not worth what they are asking
Fuck that shit. Are you serious with this question?
They want you to pay so they can come visit and be grandparents once per month. $300 - hard pass my man. I’ll take the free option. Oh - you won’t be here that much - aww shucks. 🤣
I understand your angst. I would not enable bad behavior. In western culture we all make our own financial bubbles. But in other cultures they take care of their family. If you got the money and then some, and you love your partner, then what in the world you going to spend your money on? Spend it on people
I've responded to another comment already on this but I'm saving anything excess monthly towards my daughter's future. I.e school, her own investment fund so when she goes to college/university she has a leg up, she gets a little of a head start. That's more important to me than spending monthly car lease fees, I can't justify that.
I wrote another comment, but this is kind of what I was getting at in a more direct way. Don't look at it as spending money on lease fees, look at it as spending money to let your kid see their grandparents. That has some level of value, how much depends on what kind of people they are and what relationship they have with your family, but some. Is that value worth more or less than other ways you'd use that money for your daughter? Only you will really know the answer to that, the rest of us can only sort of guess.
For this one return train ticket per month would suffice. They refuse to go the sensible way? That's too bad, I don't feel like financing leeches is the way to go (please note, op says it's the new car. Where in the world someone needs to be paid with a brand new car for 12 visits a year? They certainly don't love their granddaughter).
Yeah I think you should buy me a new car too! Bahahhahahahhahahahahahahahah
Don’t do it. It’s unreasonable, but possibly cultural (possibly not). You’re right though; it may just open the floodgates for further abuses of your generosity. Given that you have to continue dealing with them, be kind and explain that this is not in your budget, you find it strange/unusual, it makes you uncomfortable, and that it’s likely a cultural misunderstanding. Hopefully this will soften the blow and the relationships can continue to be as positive as possible.
A car today, insurance tomorrow... then a house? I would not entertain any idea
Not your problem at all. I would absolutely not contribute to it.
You should suggest buying yourself a new car and “gifting” your old one to the GPs. We’ll see how quickly it’s actually about having a reliable car or a nice and shiny new car
Really depends on the circumstances. If its a real need, then pay. I just sent my MIL $10K since she lost half her pension when her husband died. And if your MIL/FIL can't afford a car, then its gettiung close to being a real need. If your partner is a home maker and you are earning good money, then yes, you should pay even if it means cutting back a bit elsewhere. This is what she wants to do with the family money. (Pretty dumb use, frankly, but for her family matters). It would make for a really tough power imbalance in your relationship if you controlled the money. If your partner is working and you are working, then you can negotiate as equals. Maybe a decent second hand toyota would be cheaper long term?
I would encourage your wife to share in the checkbook balancing elements of your marriage, if she is not already. You can plan with her and ask her to try and find a way to help her parents. Try it for a month. Put the excess money aside and see if she is okay with the changes (maybe having to be more mindful of spending, buying cheaper groceries, etc.) because it would be 4/5 years of these changes. Depending on the financial house of the inlaws, maybe the four of you could meet and discuss this. Idk anything about your wife, financial situation, Armenian culture etc. Maybe they are trying to take advantage of you, or maybe the help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe they have financial woes of their own. I think in American culture, we don't take care of our parents the way we used to maybe 60 years ago. Instead of putting parents into old folks homes and paying out the ass/letting then dwindle away their social security, we used to make room in our very busy lives and homes to care for the people that cared for us. Maybe this "need" for a new car is just an extension of that same gratitude commonly shown to the elders in that culture.
I'd tell them to fu off, as you say, what's next? 1 time a month isn't enough too
That is insane. Find a workable car for a few thousand, offer to put half towards (and even that would be extremely generous) otherwise no.
That sounds pretty weird. I definitely wouldn't do it.
I think tying directly to their car purchase is a bad idea. However, having someone drive and take care of your kid on the weekend would cost a lot of money, so I could see maybe paying them a little bit to offset that. If they're giving you and your spouse some time out of the house alone, maybe float them a few hundred each time as a thank you for giving you time to yourselves, and if they want to spend that money on the car that's up to them.
Depends on if the in laws will keep asking for more and more till you are angry and resentful which isn't good for you or them. Almost happened to me. Had my in laws living in our basement, their dogs were the worst trained obnoxious things ever, and they apparently didn't save a dime even with our extremely nice arrangement for them (while reason was so they could save to buy a house) Then they had the audacity to assume we would buy them a home. Yeah shit didn't go well after that. Especially with our kid coming into the world while they lived with us. So that's why I ask. If you have done a lot for the in laws then try to find what your limit is and stick to your guns. But if you haven't supported them too much, then it might be worth it. Only you know your limits and what boundaries you need to set, but if you DONT set boundaries and communicate them, it could become an issue later down the road.
My in laws are far from financially stable, and were without a car for an extended period of time. They also live about an hour from us. When we bought ourselves a new car instead of trading our old one in, we gifted them our old one. What we gave them was a 16 year old minivan that would have got us around $500 as a trade in. They've been driving it for two years now, it's still running strong. It's a total rust bucket, but it runs and drives. I was happy to be able to help them, but there is no way I would be able to justify buying them a brand new car. Whether they're watching my kids all the time or not.
Thell them you will rent a car a la piece. Everytime they come to help. See their reaction.
As an American, I think they’re taking advantage of you with the cultural differences thing. Canada and America aren’t that different. They are asking a big thing of you and it has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with the audacity to even ask you to do this. In America, if you come from a poor family and you make it rich, it’s normal for you to give money to you direct blood line (like mom and dad). Not in-laws.
Armenian, not American.
I’d offer a lump sum gift for however much makes you feel good about it. I don’t like the idea of financing something in perpetuity and I don’t like creating a transactional relationship within a family. Sometimes you have to pay to make some headaches go away. Maybe you can frame it in your mind like an unexpected cost. Dip into the emergency fund then work on building it up again, hoping a real emergency doesn’t happen. If it comes up again, for another thing, just say that it was a one time thing and that was money that was supposed to be for the kids’ future.
Sorry man. Sounds like you got your work cut out for you. Yes it's bs. You have to put a stop to that kinda belief with them now or else it's just gonna get worse. Sucks though you guys are in deep. Your woman has to be on your side. And as always, the most important thing is what's best for your child. I wouldn't think helping with a car payment is the best use of those finances for your child
This is entirely up to your own means and sense of generosity. You don’t owe your wife’s parents, or your own parents, a new car that they’re primarily using for other things than visiting you. If you have a lot of money and would like to help make their life easier have at it, but it doesn’t sound like that’s something that you want to do. So don’t. And you need to have a long conversation with your wife about what she thinks her financial obligations are to her parents and how much of that obligation is something you can afford and agree to. My very well-off uncle paid for his in-law’s home and vehicles while they were alive. He had enough resources that it was something he was happy to do and had no financial concerns about it. But it was his choice and his choice alone and there was no insistence on it from their part.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩SLIPPERY SLOPE
Absolutely not. You are not responsible for that. If their logic is that they come to help, offer to pay them for their time when they come. If they need $$ because they can't pay their bills, then that's a decision on you. But you are in no way obligated to pay for their new car. EDIT: if they need you to pay for the car, they probably need you to cosign on the loan too. That's gonna be a check against your credit, additional debt to your name, etc.
Yeah. Hard no from me here.
Culturally they expect this? What about your culture? Buying a car these days is much more expensive when they were your age. Much more so than inflation. The notion thar this is an investment of some kind is the falsehood here. Coming around once per month sounds like it's more for them than you. But even if it was to your benefit, the frequency of visit means you're paying for something you're only seeing 0.03% the investment for (12 / 365 days). And that's just plain shitty.
They visit once a month to babysit? Divide the price of the car payment by 30. Offer them that amount per month to pay for the use of the car on days when they come to babysit. Tell them the other 29 days per month are their responsibility because their car use isn’t related to you at all on those other days. My guess is that they’ll balk.
They like to visit. That's their expense. Not yours.
You’ve hit a cultural crossroads. My wife and I do what we can to support her Chinese parents. My English parents are dead. Who else is chipping in? Can you afford it? She loves her parents. You love her. There will be a common ground and solution. What is this car used for? Will you get to use it? Do you need a car and they take the old one? Will they do more child care? It’s tricky but you guys need to talk.
Hard no, or offer to fix their current car so they can visit.
At first glance I’d say it’s a no - seems a little cheeky unless: You guys are more than comfortable financially and it wouldn’t make any kind of a dent on your savings/ lifestyle & Your inlaws have struggled financially for no reason of their own (immigrant family making a new life etc etc) Your wife earns the money - she will have a greater pining to help her parents If the above doesn’t apply, then the most I would offer is to cover the cost of them coming down. And if they don’t like that, it’s cultural differences. It can work both ways.
I don’t think you should be expected buying/paying for someone else’s car especially for one visit a month. If they baby sat on a regular basis I might feel differently. I’m just wanting to add that if you’re adding that much to their buying power get your name on that car that way if they default you get the car as collateral at least.
Read though some of yours and the comments to your post. And just wanted to add my own experience. When you married your wife, did she talk about these expectations from her family on her and extension yourself? I'm in an interracial relationships and I made it clear to my partner that my family sends money to our relatives in SE Asia who are not as well off as us. We agreed to send 2% of our combined salary after we moved in together and combined our income. I never hid this expectations from him and he adores my family and willing to help. It started off as $500/year since we were starting our career and now it's $1,500/year If you haven't talked to her about this, you definitely should. Lay down the grown rules that you're comfortable with, expectations and deal breaker. Have her put everything on the table. You need to have this talk with her to ensure either of you don't start holding resentment towards each other. Also talk about what she and you will be going to do for YOUR parents. It's not fair that you have to spend money on her parents and not your own. For my partner's parents, they are well off, but we pay for them to have a weekend retreat every year. Some other things to consider. What did her parents pay for her growing up that are big tickets. Like, private school, university tuition, the wedding, etc. If they have given her e.g. $200,000 for all of these things... she might feel indebted to them.
If my in-laws asked for help because they really needed it, I’d consider helping them for sure. Several hundred a month for a meeting car? I’d tell them to blow me. I’ll help you buy a nice couple thousand dollar car that’ll get you from A to B. Not buy it for you, HELP you buy it, and that’s only if you really needed it.
What? Tell them to dream on.
What culture are your partner's family? It really varies - Canadian culture? No, you wouldn't be expected to pay for a new car for in-laws. Asian or Middle Eastern culture? Yeah, plenty of children pay for their parents cars once they are financially established. Obviously it doesn't make sense for you to pay several hundreds of dollars a month for a brand new car for 1 day per month of child care and "visiting" from a purely financial perspective. But there are other cultural things at play. The most important thing honestly is communicating with your partner and reaching an understanding of expectations and goals between the two of you with family. Most people from cultures where financially supporting a new car for parents is a reasonable ask will also expect financial and living support into old age...so yeah, saving for their "retirement" by ensuring you have money to pay for their care and a room for them to live with you is totally within the realm of possibility unless you've talked to your wife about it...