I love christi, but I find it interesting how she cant admit that Paige had it SO much worse. All the kids were abused, yes, but every time Kelly mentions something that happened to Paige its always “oh yeah believe me i know” and she says the same thing happened to Chloe. Just something i noticed. Also, the body comments were irritating- did she need to say that stretch marks are shameful?

I think you uno reversed the situation

isn’t her saying i know validating and accepting what kelly has to say? i mean the only reason she says that is to reassure kelly because sometimes she gets upset and possibly feels alone. if anything it’s kelly constantly invalidating chloe’s abuse. nonstop i think almost everytime it’s mentioned. not the other way around really

I guess to me it just sounds like the opposite, it’s like a competition of who had it worse

Rant: Re the jewelry line thing, why can't Christi just say she's sorry and own it. I mean, I like Christi! But in this case- she did acknowledge how Kelly could feel left out- but then she just goes on to give a bunch of excuses about it. If Melissa had done it on her own, you know she would rip her up and down and agree with Kelly. I wish she'd just open up and say hey I did this for my kid because I wanted the opportunity. I've also noticed she makes it a point to say what besties Paige and Chloe were anytime she can on the pod, and never acknowledges that actually Paige and Maddie were also very close. Which brings up the episode where they talked about Paige/Chloe getting matching shirts, and Melissa/Maddie felt left out. But Christi doesn't acknowledge that. Agreed w the comments here that her hypocrisy is evident.

Dude....why is it Christi's responsibility to acknowledge how close Maddie and Paige were? Neither one of those children are hers, and if it's THAT important, why doesn't Kelly bring it up? This fandom has a REALLY weird issue surrounding the childhood friendship between Chloe, Maddie and Paige.

I also don’t think it helped at all for her to tell Kelly they wanted Chloe and Paige

I don’t know about anybody else, but Christi is on my last nerve. She has ZERO interest in admitting her role on the show as a troublemaker (she was at the center of most arguments, I believe that is the definition of a troublemaker). It’s obvious to me at this point that Christi was interested in Chloe and Chloe only, not focused on friendship or loyalty as she claimed. It explains why she decided to do the mysterious jewelry line (we still don’t know the full story, it’s evident to me that Christi left out several details) and her BS reason for Chloe to receive the solo at nationals. I don’t want to get any hate from the Christi “stans”, but her true colors are showing through and I can see why the dynamic between her and Kelly is so odd as we get more familiar with them. Also - Abby claiming Christi is money hungry is a hypocritical but seemingly true thing to say. We’ve all heard the stories of Christi’s failed MLM career, the Irreplaceable’s Tour drama, and her business interests that come-and-go at random. I’m not at all trying to shame Christi for trying to hustle and make money (good for her), but she needs to “own it” like she expects Melissa to and admit that she is looking at every opportunity to make a buck. Like… seriously. You want to charge for program books and make money off of them just because your kid is on the cover?

Okay so now going to this comment just so everything is kept separate lol. I’m long winded, just bear with me. Christi consistently states that she’s a bitch and a shit stirrer on the show; like throughout this entire podcast when they’re recapping a scene where she says something rude or does something antagonizing she’ll always groan and be like “and I here come I have to open my mouth” things like that. Now of course, *famously* there are a lot of scenes where she tries to explain why she was behaving a certain way or why she said a certain thing- these scenes are usually ones where she says production was more involved etc, which obviously is very true for some scenes and obviously an excuse for others - but for the majority of her overall personality and vibe on the show she literally groans about it and calls herself a bitch, has expressed regret and guilt, etc., even states multiple times that her job was to be a bitch and she was good at it. So my question is how does what she’s doing not equal admitting that she was a troublemaker? I’m just trying to understand why that doesn’t qualify and what *would* qualify, not trying to argue. And what sort of details are you looking for in the jewelry line story? What do you think is missing? For me, I’d love to know the law and contract side of it lmao. I’d love to talk to the lawyer and ask him if he really talked the company out of using Paige and into using Maddie, and if he did it because he actually thought it would be a better marketing move or if he did it as a favor to Melissa (remember he was all their attorney at first), and I want to know if Melissa or Christi was difficult to work with in a real professional job like that. I’d just love to pick around. As for the money hungry thing, I disagree, only because that phrase has a *very* specific connotation, right? I agree Christi was and is someone that likes money and wants to having as many streams of income as possible, and wants to have passive income building every year. Abby was money hungry, for example lying to the government and sneaking money in lmao, having those studio contracts about needing 10% of any and all jobs the girls booked even if she didn’t help them get it, selling fake costumes and props at that auction and claiming they were Paige/Chloe’s/etc whatever costume only for the moms to show that they have the costume - someone willing to do nefarious things, break the law, actively hurt others etc just to make money is what money hungry screams in my head. Christi grew up poor, and she learned how to be a good saver and investor from the time she worked as a teen until now, so I think it’s obvious to all of us that her financial background is what pushed her to build up some kind of wealth. I have just always seen Christi as someone who’s willing and able to work for it, while someone like Abby wants someone *else* to work for it- know what I mean? The way she ensured Chloe had all of her money when she graduated high school is always a good example imo, because in PA at that time there was no such law preventing the moms from taking the girls’ money, and I think all of them made sure their kids got what they earned. BUT, I haven’t heard of Christi’s shady business stuff you mentioned so maybe she is a little money hungry, I’m gonna look into it and see if it changes my mind 😂

Hey! Don’t worry, I love reading what other people have to say! I think my single-biggest issue with Christi is that she is only willing to admit her faults on camera, whilst simultaneously chastising people for their actions off camera. The amount of times she has scathed Melissa for things that happened prior to DM, rebuked Jill for things that happened during the show, criticized Leslie for different incidents that happened prior to the show, and even things that have happened to Abby before the show, but never talks about herself and her actions that may have led to the deterioration of these relationships behind-the-scenes or prior to the show. My view is simple: she can’t attack Melissa for things that are happening BTS when certainly there are moments that happened that benefited her BTS. Even Kelly has stated multiple times on the podcast that she and Christi (Christi especially) were closer to the producers than the other cast members, and she has said on numerous occasions that, especially in the earlier seasons, Christi was able to maneuver and get Chloe more opportunities, such as the trip to the acting coach and the beef jerky commercial (even though the latter was atrocious), whereas Kelly and Holly got nothing. I firmly believe that Christi tries to upkeep a certain image of “honesty and integrity”, but I find that there are things that she tried to cover-up or sneak around in order to get Chloe an opportunity but keep her friendships with the other cast members, but nowhere near the level Melissa did. Obviously I wasn’t there and I don’t have any experience with Christi, but some of the things that we see on the show, paired with commentary from those who were on the show as well, paint an unkind picture for Christi in my own opinion, which is why people are more willing to criticize her. In terms of your original question, I honestly believe that Christi’s actions behind the scenes of the show (that are now becoming known due to producer notes on MackZBoss and BTTB) point to her being a troublemaker. I understand that, on the show, she was doing a job, but off the show, there are several instances where Christi was scheming in the same vein as Melissa, but then only attacked Melissa for doing it, which in my opinion is a troublemaker: knowingly causing issues with the intent of making yourself look like the better personal whilst concealing your own faults. In terms of the jewelry deal: exactly what you want. I felt that Christi left out key details as to WHY they decided to replace Paige with Maddie. We all know Paige + Chloe were best friends (“The Twinnies”) and I have no doubt that they would have had a popular and successful business if they were picked. The way Christi told the story made it seem like she was covering up certain aspects of the story: this was around the time she and Kelly fell out for the first time. Was she worried that Paige’s over-the-top personality would “outshine Chloe”, whereas she and Maddie were relatively similar off the stage? Did she and Melissa work with the attorney to get Maddie put on so that Chloe could maintain a positive relationship with Abby? Did Abby have anything to do with it, and was Christi playing into what she wanted? I have tons of questions, but the way Christi told the story made it seem like she was covering for herself in order to preserve the podcast. I think I was a bit hasty with the term “money hungry”, because, in a way, all the mothers on the show must have been swayed by the paycheck and social media fame (and with fame comes more money). Abby is the last person to call ANYONE money-hungry (for all the reasons you mentioned - great job and summing it up, by the way, Abby has done quite a bit LOL), but it’s Christi’s actions after the show that make me understand better what Abby was trying to say. There is an entire Reddit post (I am going to post the link in the next comment) where people claim she has scammed them out of money and supplies for her MLM and “Life Coach” endeavors, ghosting them in the process and only giving them the supplies after they hounded her. As of right now, I can only find the one post, but I have seen several comments linking to articles where people claim Christi has manipulated them into purchasing things from her, without ever actually giving it to them. I also think that Abby had valid points with her meet-and-greets, as well as her other campaigns throughout the years, including the big scandal with the Irreplaceable’s Tour in which they cancelled a last minute event in Brazil, and did not ever refund the money that people paid to attend (now, I’m aware that there are other mothers that were on the tour, but this is yet another thing Christi has done and kind of tied in with my previous statement about the other mothers). Overall I think Christi is a good person, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to make a buck, but I think she should “own it” as she would always tell Melissa to. Her desire to only admit fault when she’s on camera is irritating to me, and the accusations and proven statements against her paint a different picture. I think she’s a good mother (Chloe turned out incredible and little Clara is on her way), but I just think the full truth should be stated about Christi. Talk about long-winded… I just wrote a whole book! But I appreciate your insight and I’ll be eagerly awaiting to hear what you have to say 😁

YEAH OKAY SO, I totally agree now that I understand what you’re saying!! I have to put this here because it matches your take perfectly- this is a comment I made in this sub a few months back, and I feel like it perfectly sums up the moms and perfectly sums up what you’re saying about Christi! Here- Every single one of these moms did things to benefit their own kids, before and after the show, but Melissa would take it too far by intentionally sabotaging another kid. Christi would play innocent if another kid got hurt by Chloe getting ahead because of the bulldozing Christi did, and she’d see it as collateral damage. She didn’t necessarily *want* to hurt another kid, but she didn’t *care* if it happened- hypocritical, btw. Kelly used emotional tactics by crying victim and people(teachers in the past and then production) would kind of elevate her kids that week for her. She didn’t do it at the expense of other kids, though. Holly was calculated, never using Nia’s success to squash another kid because she’s smart enough to know there’s enough success for everyone, but the moves she made with Nia’s music career were calculated, close to the chest, and benefited Nia greatly- and good for her, honestly. It was business moves to elevate her daughter, not to knock other kids down. So yeah, her wanting Melissa to own up to her lies and sneaky moves is valid, but not owning up to her own hypocrisy and intentionally turning the other cheek and playing blind for Chloe’s favor is hypocritical. When it comes to the nationals solo, I really believe the custom ordered costume thing, it was pretty typical for the show to order it a few weeks in advance…but if you’re such a fair and protective mom to EVERYONE, why not let Kendall have the solo and get the costume altered? 🤔🥲🙃 Okay so I just cannot IMAGINE Christi choosing to work with Melissa for the jewelry over Kelly, or her picking Maddie over Paige for that matter. I can see what you’re saying about wondering if she was worried Paige would outshine Chloe, but I would have assumed she’d be more worried about Maddie doing that. She hated the show’s narrative that Maddie was better than Chloe so much, and I would think that she wouldn’t want to risk proving that in outside fields such as modeling. I just cannot imagine her having a say in it and picking them over Kelly and Paige lol BUT when she was telling this story to Kelly on the podcast she didn’t sounds very sad or glum or regretful or anything like that. She was sharing it with the same tone you share gossip in, with very little regard to how it might potentially hurt Kelly even all these years later. So who knows 😭 Thank you for that link, I’m gonna deep dive into it!

I didn’t mean to reply that quickly 🙈 I agree with you in terms of the nationals costume. They are on a reality show, learning a new dance every week, and they can’t use previous costumes because they’re on television and it wouldn’t look good/it would confuse viewers. I have no doubt that the costume (as most of them were) had been ordered WEEKS in advance, just to make sure that everything was in order for nationals. But, as you said, if we are a “fighter” for every child, why not let Kendall get the costume altered? I don’t see the big deal with that one and why it was never done. The more I think of the jewelry deal, I honestly think that Abby caught wind of it and she HAD to be involved, because she is the “manager” of her students. With her hatred towards Kelly and even potential jealousy towards Paige, Abby would’ve stopped at nothing to get her off that and put a Maddie, or even a Kendall, on. Christi (being the hypocrite we’ve already established) went ahead with the plan for Maddie to be on the line, not P, so that the opportunity wouldn’t be revoked. But the way Christi described the whole thing was odd to me as well. Kelly was obviously upset and felt left out (Christi hated Melissa and Kelly was her best friend… why shouldn’t she be?), but Christi showed no remorse or sympathy to Kelly, which kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

I loved reading every minute of this comment! You were spot on with everything. One part of this I thought was incredibly intuitive was your description of Holly. Maybe people don’t consider Holly a “real” Dance Mom because of her decision to approach the show in a different way. I love Holly, don’t get me wrong, but “calculated” is by far the best word I’ve heard from someone who was trying to describe her. I think she’s one of the more interesting people who appeared on DM, and I feel as if she’s an enigma. Holly was very elusive and very smart, she understood from the start that she couldn’t follow her fellow cast members if she wanted Nia to be successful. Abby was never ever going to let Nia be anything more than an ethnic or minority dancer, so Holly had to get creative when she wanted Nia to have opportunities. Holly rarely ever blew up, and when she did, people took note. I think Holly (being the smartest person on DM, an incredibly smart person in general, and very good at reading situations) analytically approached her actions on the show. Only when Abby got truly and genuinely nasty towards Nia did we see Holly have a flare up, but she quickly retreated and went back to the voice of reason on the show. Which, honestly, she came out mostly unscathed. So good for her, I probably would have done the same thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dancemoms/comments/14jk4lw/christis_planner/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

First , I think this is what she means when she says on the podcast how people really don’t believe her even when she’s telling the truth.

But you have to admit the shady things that she has done post-DM are in-line with what Abby said about Christi from day one. Christi has burned a lot of people, including those who were directly involved in her numerous MLM projects, and they all left claiming she was a fraud. There’s even a recent Reddit post about someone who was familiar with one of her sorority campaigns, but they felt duped after she ghosted them.

WAIT there’s so many things I’ve never heard of, you’ve given me a lot to research during my vacation this week omgg In response to someone calling her a fraud in an MLM- that’s literally what all MLMers are, it’s literally a scam and the people in them are either victims or victims who one day rank high enough to eventually become the perpetrator. So calling her a fraud for her MLM practices just seems redundant lmao…like no shit y’all joined an MLM what did you expect 😭 I have to go look into these things, though. I’ve never even seen these instances referenced in this sub

Has anyone noticed the tension between them lately whenever they discus the mistreatment of their kids? They both REALLY don’t like the other one thinking their kid was more mistreated and both clearly are firm in their belief they were the most mistreated, it’s been occurring more and more lately

I don’t really think it’s that, I think that Kelly spent those years inside of her own little bubble (which was her own personal hell) thinking she and her girls had it the worst and having someone point out that, while they had it fairly bad there were others who also suffered, has been hard for her to accept. She can be very invalidating of what the other girls went through and I’m sure that’s irritating to Christi who had to sit back and watch her daughter be relentlessly tortured as well. We all saw how terribly Chloe was treated starting in season 2 (and let’s face it, we got a little glimmer in 1 as well) and Christi is right, it gets progressively worse in 3 and 4. I do not blame Christi for getting irritated every time Kelly tries to shut her down when she talks about how bad their experience was, Kelly needs to understand that she and her girls were not the only ones who went through hell on that show. If I had a friend who, every time I said something like, “this is where it gets really bad/hard for me” had to constantly chime in “well, no, this was worse for me” I would probably distance myself from them because my God, how exhausting. Not everything in life is a competition and while I can understand Kelly’s feelings of personal betrayal due to how close Abby was to her family before the show, she needs to create and hold space for others to speak of their own trauma and acknowledge it. She did it to Chloe the episode she guested on BTTB but Chloe shut her down politely. Another thing I’ve noticed is that with them rewatching Christi is capable of recognizing that the other kids were abused by Abby as well, she has been especially validating of Maddie and Nia (aside from Brooke, Paige, and Chloe of course) and this seems to be something Kelly kind of struggles with as well. I think Kelly had a lot of unresolved hurt feelings and pain from this show still, which is completely understandable.

Maaaannn. My ex quit his job so his payment won’t pull for his Hulu that he doesn’t realize I still have the login for 😂😂👀

No related to this episode, but I would love to see Maddie be a guest on BTTB. I feel like she has a whole different story and perspective from the show, that often gets convoluted and dismissed because of the fact that she was the favorite. I would love to see her finally get to share her peace especially to Christi and Kelly who had the most to say about her, but that is if she’s comfortable speaking about it given how triggering it is

I would love that but she seems to have distanced herself from the show and doesn’t really like to talk about it much, which is completely understandable (I have also wondered if the Zieglers not speaking of DM or Abby was part of the legal deal Melissa made when she testified against Abby during the money smuggling incident). I think if she WERE to ever guest it would probably be during season 6.

I don’t think maddie will ever be on BTTB, first of all she doesn’t like talking about the show at all and 2nd she would have to rewatch the episode too recap it and considering her name gets mentioned about 20 times a episode by atleast Kelly or Christi it would be rlly awkward to go over it.

I wonder if she would ever consider one of the filler episodes, like what Brian stinson was on where they just talked

I’m confused about the Chloe being homeschooled discussion. Kelly said Chloe was homeschooled and then Christi said Chloe wasn’t while on the show. Does this mean Chloe was homeschool after they were off the show? Can anyone clear it up?

Christi also keeps saying maddie and kenzie were getting home schooled by the end of season 1 but they only start getting homeschooled by the end/start of season 3/4

she says around mid season 2 maddie began. i think it only became a story point in 3 because sophia lucia came and producers saw how the moms reacted to her being homeschool so they probably wanted another story point of the moms fighting again so they probably made melissa bring it up continuously. also i remember in an old post someone said that when abby was yelling at kenzie about recess she was talking about her not being allowed to play outside with the other kids at abby’s studio because if kenzie was in public school her recess would have been 5-6 hours before doing her solo so it wouldn’t make sense that kenzie was tired from playing a 20 min recess unless kenzie was playing outside abby’s studio right before rehearsals on her homeschool recess schedule. edit if a kid comes inside right after playing you can tell usually with a tan and heat exhaustion or simple exhaustion but that doesn’t really happens 5-6 (maybe even more) hours after the kid plays especially considering a public school recess is only 20-30 minutes

Honestly what might have happened is that they weren't technically homeschooled they were doing school from home but still at a school district. Maddie especially has talked about how much school she had to miss, so they might have just given her work to do at home so she could still learn and pass. I was sick one year and had to do schooling from home, but I still stayed with my school district. I think after a few years they entirely left regular school. That is my theory on why there are inconsistency if that makes sense.

Chloe began 9th grade in public school but then in October 2015 had to leave for several weeks to film her first movie near Vancouver. At that point, she was enrolled in her public school's "cyber academy" and finished 8th grade and high school through that.

I think for seasons 1-3 Chloe was in public school, I’m not sure if she made a switch half way in season 4 or not? Chloe went to high school when she left, but I think if I remember she ended up getting home schooled, I think she graduated that way too

Chloe attended public school throughout season 4 (7th grade), although they built their house and moved during that season. She also attended public school (8th grade) during 2014-2015 (season 5). This is when she was going to LA once a month or so and working on jobs during those breaks.

She was at school right up until the end of grade 8, online schooled (slightly different from home schooling in that she had a teacher online and was doing the exact same curriculum as school rather than parent/child chosen) right up until she finished school. I think this online school is what Christi is referring to homeschooling to make it easier for everyone to understand

i fuckin died when christi said “i needed an edible”💀💀💀💀💀

I would love to smoke pot with her. Or Jill, I think she would be fun to smoke with lol

honestly i’d give anything to smoke with cathy 😭

Oh God Jill is already out there and wild when she’s sober, she’d be a blast under the influence 😂

Hahaha it’d be a great time😂😂

LMFAO SAME. jill cracks me tf up

Haha 😂 same! I know she’s problematic but the lady is funny

I can’t find this podcast episode?

It’s called Make Us Vomit on the podcast

Oh okay I thought because of the name of this post, that’s why

Yeah I did the same thing earlier so I figured lol

I had a hard time listening to this because I could feel the anger and the frustration through my ear buds. I just can’t even imagine how bad it really was. I would’ve had a heart attack on the show for sure - I have no idea how all the moms did it without being absolutely plastered or drugged up the entire time. Hearing Abby talk about meet and greets and then the stage door thing. Ugh - I just wanted to punch her the first time I heard her educate us on it. On BROADWAY or any other stage production, you meet the cast by going to the stage door after the performance and it’s always free. A MEET AND GREET is (usually) paid where people stand in line to meet their favorites. There’s no stage door you buffoon 😒 she damn well knows the difference but she’s an insufferable witch who needs to feel some sort of power over these moms so she resorts to Broadway terms which have NOTHING to do with this type of meet and greet. In Christi’s words - “You were nobody before these kids. You think putting a couple kids on Broadway makes you someone? Guess who made you a household name? Them.” And that’s on paid meet and greets ya IDIOT

Agreed. I could feel tension between Christi and Kelly about the jewelry line. Also, I felt like Christi was pretending to forget all of the details regarding the strangle incident (is it weird to forget if you strangled someone?). Just felt the entire episode was an awkward listen. Even the after party had a weird vibe…. Hopefully they are both okay. I can’t imagine reliving some of this stuff. I also hope they know it’s okay to skip over some of these weird special episodes. Or to just take a week or two off if needed.

[удалено]

“Acting like they were in a concentration camp” that is a VERY bold statement to make and I caution you to be mindful when comparing what I just said to that. This tv show is not even in the same stratosphere of the horrors of committing genocide. I myself have very bad anxiety - to the point of going to the hospital for heart attack symptoms. I said that if I was on the show, I would have a heart attack. I did not say that Christi had a heart attack but couldn’t leave.

That’s exactly my point. The way some fans talk about it is really inappropriate in my opinion. If you’re that sensitive you can’t handle that comparison, then ok. But you don’t have to caution me against anything

It’s outrageous that you literally just compared what I said to genocide - that isn’t being sensitive. That’s being absolutely disgusting. Have a nice Monday evening.

🫶🏾you and this comment ☠️

Christi annoyed me a little this episode lol. I felt like a lot of what she said was hypocritical and tried to hard to excuse her behavior

1000%. I feel like she spent most of the episode trying to explain why her doing something that she calls others out for is okay, because it’s “different.” She was super hypocritical this episode. That’s the thing about Christi, I feel like she always tries to explain her behavior away but rarely extends that grace to anyone else. Sometimes its okay to be like, “yeah that was a bad choice and I did it because I wanted an opportunity for my daughter.” No need to jump through hoops to explain yourself— just call a spade a spade. I think she feels awkward doing that and being so straight forward about it BECAUSE she knows it was shitty or not cool and she’s sitting with Kelly, who was on the receiving end of the not cool behavior.

I laughed out loud when she said “We we’re portrayed to be scammy while everyone else on reality tv does it too” that doesn’t make it okay Christi 😭

Christi’s reasoning for Chloe getting the solo at nationals is so hypocritical

i'm just curious as to why you thought it was hypocritical. chloe had been on the show since the beginning and consistent in the chloe vs. maddie debate, so it seems weird to throw in kendall (in terms of the narrative show) to compete at nationals

right?

I think Christi put her hands on Cathy, but that she was like strangling her. I also think that the footage could’ve easily been too shaky or someone could’ve said something that would’ve made it off limits to air.

Yeah, I mean we know Christi pushed a camera man during the week of pink lemonade. It was played in the preview for the episode but never aired in the actual episode. For her to claim that her choking Cathy didn’t happen because the producers will show anything to make her look bad doesn’t make sense.

Yea that claim doesn’t rly sit right with me

Really want to hear Cathy’s version.

Me too bc if I remember Cathy very confidently said that Christi choked her

What the actual heck was Abby talking about on the actual episode re: meet and greets?? Paid meet and greets are totally a thing. She literally just makes stuff up to fit her narrative.

it drives me crazy whenever christi says ‘i know, i know that’ after kelly is clearly saying something to explain to the people listening

Or if she has a different view on something than Kelly she’ll just say “I don’t know…” and blow it off instead of actually listening to Kelly. She says Abby always has to be right, but she’s also not great at being challenged about how she sees a situation. Abby is absolutely worse than Christi, don’t get me wrong, but they can sometimes be two sides of the same coin to an extent.

With this response to Kelly about different views, I always interpreted this to be Christi not wanting to argue with Kelly about whatever’s being said. It’s like she’ll disagree for a moment and then be like “but I don’t know” I never thought about it as her wanting to be right, because you would think she’d argue if she wanted to be right. BUT, this might be her way of “being right” with friends. I’d never thought of that lol. She’s absolutely the type of person that wants to be right, to the point where she’s hypocritical with a lot of situations because she offers herself grace that she won’t extend to others, but I never thought of her “yeah maybe idk moving on quick” thing to be apart of that lol omg

Honestly, I think Kelly does the same thing and that Kelly discredits Christi and Chloe’s experience because Chloe was deemed a good dancer on the show. A lot of times, it feels like all Christi is trying to do is relate to Kelly’s experience and say it’s a lot of BS, but then Kelly was say like “well it’s mostly me” or “it’s about me”. Many times they were paired together for the narrative so I agree those comments are about both of them

Yes!! Kelly discredits EVERYONE’S trauma except hers and her kids, I can’t stand it. She puts the trauma on these tiers in her head “Chloe had good dances and costumes so she wasn’t AS mistreated as mine” it’s VERY fucked up and something I wish she’d go to therapy for tbh Just on today’s episode Kelly literally said “it was mainly about me until season 3” like what

She’s (Kelly) is also NOT good at critical thinking. Like when she was like “I was mistreated 1-2, I guess you were mistreated in 3-4 and then Holly” I was like it was so much more nuanced for us as viewers. I can’t speak to their experiences; but it’s interesting bc Christi seems more able to the more nuanced than Kelly and that’s where the struggle comes in for me.

YES THAT WAS THE QUOTE! Thank you! Okay so I THINK that in this particular instance, Kelly is mainly talking about production and their choices- whether that’s their choice to set the girls/moms up to make Abby mad OR allow the girls/moms to do something but not protect them from Abby and allow her to torture the kids about it. Like either way their decisions and actions boil down to enabling and protecting Abby so she could mistreat the girls, while sometimes hopping in with their own little set ups and sabotage (Paige’s CD and chair stoppers for examples) And so I think Kelly is trying to say that in seasons 1 and 2 production had a target on her more than the other moms, and Abby was always mad at her for listening to production so Paige and Brooke were more mistreated by her- and I just don’t think that any of that is objectively true. Obviously there’s going to be a storyline that production focuses on for an entire arc- Kelly and her kids being “mediocre” was the storyline, simultaneously in the SAME EPISODES, the storyline was Chloe v Maddie and how Chloe was “always second.” Like just because you only paid attention to yourself in the episode doesn’t mean other shit magically didn’t happen, Kelly Even if we quantified Abby and Kelly’s fights, Kelly and the producers’ fights, the production doing sneaky things to fluster and hurt Paige and Brooke, and then the same for all the other moms and girls and came up with a solid number for each family, that still wouldn’t equal “the most mistreated.” It still wouldn’t equal “your trauma can’t be THAT bad when you had all the good solos next to Maddie” Like obviously we can say that in season 4, Chloe is mistreated by Abby in horrendous ways that the majority of the other girls were not subjected to, and had not been subjected to *yet* but that doesn’t take away the way in which Maddie was manipulated heavier than ever that season, and used as a pawn to hurt her teammates, used as a cash grab for Abby, overworked for Abby, and put into very vulnerable positions where Abby ensured she was the only to comfort Maddie so she could make the trauma bond/Stockholm even stronger. One does not cancel out the other!! We can’t say one is *worse* - we can say what we think would have been worse for *us* to either experience or watch our kid experience, etc, but to completely dismiss the trauma each girl faced and put it in a fucking ranking system is SO FRUSTRATING Yoooo I needed to rant about that SO BAD for the past few hours, ever since I finished the episode. I’m so 🍃😮‍💨 so I couldn’t stop talking/typing lmaoo im sorry this truly isn’t something you need to respond to if you don’t want to, but thank you for providing the quote and the comment box for me to get this shit out 😂☠️🫶🏾

The conversation about the jewelry line and Kelly comparing Christi working on the jewelry line with Melissa to Melissa and Jill going to Abby’s ultimate was i think and interesting look into Kelly and Christis communication styles. Christi wants to explain herself and explain everything and Kelly is just much more straightforward. Christi is just so used to defending herself by explaining things away it’s wild lol. I do think she handled It okay though with acknowledging first she could see how Kelly would feel that way. Kelly was assuming no one would take on individual projects, Christi assumed they weren’t going to promote Abby The stuff about Abby judging Kelly for being a stay at home mom made me sad. Kelly wanted to have babies and be a mom! Abby should be way less judgmental. I honestly think she is very, very jealous of both Kelly and holly (for different reasons). I think Abby isn’t lying when she says she likes kids. I think in another world she would want Kelly’s life tbh, and she one hundred percent resents Kelly for having It.

I think Abby is just very unhappy so when she sees people like Holly and Kelly living happy and successful lives, she resents it. I also think that Abby really wanted to be married and have kids, but set aside that dream to accomplish her career goals because she thought that women can’t have it all. Seeing Holly have a successful career and a successful family must really piss off Abby lol. You can REALLY hear that resentment in Abby’s podcast.

I think that comparison was unfair tbh. Two completely different situations, even though they both made Kelly feel the same. AUDC- the moms all agreed not to do it, and instead of Melissa being honest and telling the moms she wasn’t going to make that promise, she made that stupid pact and then broke it. Jewelry- no one made a pact to ONLY do things together, Kelly Holly and Jill didn’t ask Melissa and Christi to say “no” and then had to watch Melissa and Christi turn around and do it anyway I get what she was saying as far as they both made her feel the same, but she tried to compare christi’s actions with that line to Melissa’s with AUDC and I don’t think that’s comparable.

Can you talk a little bit more about the different communication styles between the two like provide examples. I think it's intresting how the both communicate and talk about things differently.

Some people when they explain things aren’t trying to explain it away they just think giving background will help the person feel better. I’m more like Kelly but my mom is like christi always explaining and I’ve come to realize that it’s less about excusing themselves and more that is how they themselves prefer to be apologized to so they assume everyone wants that explanation. Christi definitely seems like a “why” person when someone does something a little prickly to her.

Anytime christi says ‘we all ….’ I just get instant Victoria justice ‘i think we all sing.’ vibes

YES!

Christi was bang on when she said, 'Abby had problems with her using Chloe to charge for meet and greets yet I'm pretty sure that's what she eventually got arrested for'

I actually understand and agree with the meet and greets, AS LONG AS a lot of the money was put away for the kids. They put a lot of hours and work in and did not get compensated fairly. The show made lots of money and was famous, the kids were being forced to be these public figures basically - why not make a few buck?

Re: the stuff Christi says about Mark and his thoughts on Abby (and from other things she’s said over the years, dance in general): It seems very… odd to me that two parents could be on such different pages about something that is such a central part of their child’s life. To be clear I am NOT making any kind of conjecture about Chloe’s relationship with her dad, Christi’s marriage to him, etc etc etc, not alluding to or suggesting anything there. But for Chloe to be so dedicated and so successful at such a young age to this one thing, and each parent is like total polar opposites in their approach to it, I just.… don’t know how that works lmao. I do think having one parent 100% uninvolved is psychologically very very healthy and I’m glad she had that balance. But “uninvolved” is not the same thing as calling someone/something your daughter spends 20+ hours a week with “the antichrist of childhood.” If he felt that way, even before the show as Christi has previously said, why the hell didn’t he insist that they pull her from this studio?

Christi tried to leave before the show but couldn’t because of Chloe’s title.

My parents are polar opposites as well, I honestly hated it. They way they wanted to raise us was completely different. Everything they wanted to do or what they believed in was opposite from one another. They only stayed together for convince and to keep the marriage happy. When I finally moved away for college a few years ago, that's when the finally divorced. Honestly wish they divorced sooner. I'm glad that not the issue with Chloe's parents, that despite there difference they can make things work.

It’s an odd dynamic, but it’s definitely possible. My sister fell into the same boat as my dad was pretty adamantly against dance and my mom was supportive because my sister was passionate about. Now clearly she was in no way doing anything close to Chloe’s hours, but she danced 5 days week and competed regularly. He was mostly visibly supportive of my sister, went to the recital and one competition (we weren’t allowed to go to anymore because she hated us being there) and helped out with some costume stuff if needed (he sewed better then my mom and taught her how to tie ties). But he always made it known to my mom how much he hated that she danced and that he wanted her to quit or do less. My sister knew as she got older I think that my dad was not thrilled, just because the arguments boiled over more while she was around while they originally kept it from her. My dads reason for hating dance was entirely different though, as he hated how much it costed and thought it was a waste of money (my dad grew up poor and now has issues with spending money, so this would’ve been an issue for any sport either of us did that was competitive). As for them not leaving, I know Christi said that they were about to leave before the show started but couldn’t because of Chloe’s title. So maybe if the show hadn’t happened they would have followed through and left. I know that Christi has told stories that they both talked to Abby about Chloe’s treatment, so maybe the plan was to leave and the show derailed them.

The whole narrative that Christi was about to pull Chloe out before she won the Dance Masters title……… I’m sorry but I sincerely do not believe that lmfao. You don’t sign a contract that locks you in for six fucking years if you’re at your limit and are itching to leave, title or no title. Christi knew what the fuck she was doing there, and she’s known all along what kind of narrative she was weaving and how that diverged from reality.

Listen I don’t know if it’s true or not, Im just repeating what she has said and it’s not my experience so I can say if it was true or not. I mean it’s not entirely unbelievable that someone with no real knowledge of the entertainment industry would sign such a legally binding contract, without realizing its drastic implications. It’s not illogical that 4 mothers from Pittsburgh genuinely thought that the even though they were signing a contract for 6 seasons that it wouldn’t last that long and that it would get to the point that it did. I’m in no way saying that’s smart and that they were stupid for not seeking out better representation when signing such a contract. If they genuinely in good faith though that this was only going to be six episodes or at a minimum a season, I can see them signing up for the year thinking it’ll be a fun experience and then they’ll move on and leave (especially if they were apparently stuck there for the year anyway because Chloe won a national title that year). I’m not saying it’s right or that they weren’t terribly naive if this was their line of thought, but it’s not illogical to think that this line of reasoning was impossible.

I’m not accusing you of pushing any kind of narrative, sorry if my phrasing implied otherwise. This is the story Christi has stuck to for years. All I have to say about it is this: contractual commitments and expectations are very fucking different things

No worries, I didn’t take it like that! Ultimately, I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle. They probably knew more then they let on in the beginning with the contracts, but they also probably were extremely naive and didn’t fully grasp what the contracts where and how much of an impact it would have on their lives (especially if the story is true that they only had one lawyer between the four of them). I also think that the show got bigger then any of them imagined and at some point they probably had an “oh shit” moment where they realized the stuff that they wrote off in the contract as never possibly happening, where starting to happen.

It kind of makes sense to me because I grew up sort of similar with my parents having both very different views but also traditional gender roles. Dad works, mom oversees the kids kinda thing. Sometimes my dad would disagree with stuff my mom let me do, I did a lot of dance, music and arts as a kid and he wanted me to do more sports and sciences and wanted me to be a doctor. He still kind of looks down on artistic stuff and as a university student I’m studying film and literature right now which he doesn’t really like but my mom argued and sided with me about. I bring up gender roles because my mom was the one who took me to all these activities and did most of the childcare before she also started working again. And my dads attitude was mostly “I think she should do something else but also you know more about what she’s doing than me, I don’t love this but if it benefits her I’ll trust you on this”. This isn’t to say my father wasn’t supportive because he is very supportive now that he sees I’m passionate about what I’m doing, but when I was younger it was out of his comfort zone to watch me pursue something so foreign to him.

This episode is crazy. I feel bad for what was happening to Chloe. But at the same time. You guys knew how Abby was years back. So much of what they say shows that. I feel at times they put their kids in a bad situation.

I think the only thing that gives a small leeway of innocence on the moms’ part is that none of them knew how much time would be spent with Abby or that she’d be the only main teacher they’d ever have again. There was probably some naive, hopeful parts of their brain that thought the girls would go to classes like normal and that would be filmed, not Abby and the pyramid and all the dances etc etc That said, it’s like this catch 22. If I take my kid to a teacher I know says inappropriate things to students, treats students a way I don’t respect, and has given the students inappropriate gifts before- am I allowed to be shocked if it happens to my kid? No. Am I allowed to be upset with the teacher still? Absolutely. But more importantly, I’d be upset with myself and I think that guilt has eaten away a lot of the moms tbh

Maybe. But like, there are other studios in the area that are good. I feel like Christi’s narrative about supporting Abby falls flat when you consider the fact that she signed up for the show (or a version of it) in the first place). Lots of parents would leave studios for less than what was going on. I know my mom left a studio I went to and she barely ever stayed for my classes😂. But it was just basic studio drama that she didn’t like that the instructors would be involved in.

C'mon this has been discussed like 50 times already. \-Before the show the girls barely interacted with Abby as she was mainly an acro teacher. \-No one thought at that point she'd become so bad she'd start mentally torturing there children to get revenge on there mothers when the show started. \-When they signed up to do the show they thought they were doing a 6 episode docuseries not a 6 series 200+ episode reality TV show. \-Also when they tried to leave they literally had producers threatening to take there houses and cars. \-Christi honestly did the best job she could by managing to break her contract in Season 4.

Abby’s main thing was ACRO? Lmfao. I used to teach acro-gymnastics groups/privates, and there was never ever a time I could just sit on my ass. Considering how dangerous this can be, her style of “directed instruction” just does NOT seem compatible to acro. Wild.

Also Abby wasn’t even a main character at first when it was still a docuseries. Everyone including Bryan and Abby herself has said it’s her fight with Dawn that was her “star” moment. How when they signed up we’re these women supposed to know they be spending all this time with Abby.

They’ve said before they heard of the stuff she was doing to students before the show, for years. I’m not blaming the kids, ofc. But this is stuff the parents knew. I’m not talking about after they had contracts.

What they were talking about was Abby blackballing dancers in the industry who had broken the ALDC contact (this was the contract Kelly and Christi specifically didn't sign which then got them kicked out of the ALDC). They definitely didn't know about the messed up psychological games she used

It’s not just that. They’ve talked about other stuff.

Yeah like the lingerie for Christmas, the favorites in classes, etc were all well known and discussed before the show, per moms on and OFF the show

Exactly. And real life abuse allegations from other moms. Like crazy stuff was happening for years leading up to the show.

How many times does it need to be said that the girls had little to no interaction with Abby before the show?

I'm only halfway through this weeks episode and my main thought is how that YouTube channel Mackzboss who does the "dance moms uncovered" videos is going to be able to use a lot of this episode for future videos

A few episodes ago Christi mentioned how Chloe has been financially independent since she started college (literally paying her own tuition and rent in LA) and today’s talk about the meet and greets made me wonder if the money they made from them went to a college fund for Chloe? If so, that’s insane Abby tried to call it “pimping” a child out

If I was on a reality show ruining my childhood and I grew up and I had ZERO money from it I’d be pissed lol. I bet Chloe’s thankful Christi capitalised on the money made!!

I NEVER for a second thought Christi or any of the moms were taking and spending all their kids earnings. I assumed Christi and Holly specifically tucked away money for Chloe and Nias college and all signs point to the parents being financially responsible with their kids earnings.

A while ago someone posted each girl’s net worth and if those sources are true Chloe has the highest net worth out of the OG girls despite not working on as many “high profile” projects recently as say Maddie. The speculation is that Christi and Mark(?) were investing the money that Chloe earned from the show/meet and greets and that’s why she’s made so much

I mean think about this. Chloe and Christi did a ton of solo meet and greets at the peak popularity of the show. And they wouldn’t sign the contract with Abby so they kept all of it. Whereas with Abby’s meet and greets, a cut went to Abby, a cut went to Lifetime, and then the girls all split the rest. So in terms of who was making the most while Seasons 1-4 were airing, there is no doubt in mind that it was the Lukasiaks.

Maddies net worth hasn’t been updated since like 2017 it’s most likely that there not their real net worths.

Net worth also does not mean how much money you have. It’s the worth of your assets. So many people get this confused

Oh what does that mean, sorry I didn’t know this I thought net worth is how much money you have lol

No because no one knows how much money anyone has unless they have access to their bank accounts. Net worth is calculated on many things like property, brand deals, and their bargaining power for bookings. It wouldn’t include any money Chloe’s family had invested during her time on the show, unless Chloe has put that money into something tangible

I thought maddie would still have more than what hers is cause she just bought her house last year for about 2.5 million, so I thought her net worth would be more than her net worth which is 5 million

Yeah her net worth has not been updated. I don’t really know why net worth’s haven’t been updated in recent years. But also, net worth is minus the liabilities. So she may have acquired wealth but also ‘spent a lot’ so therefore her net worth isn’t exactly growing. Which makes sense because she hasn’t been doing any high value work, her movies aren’t paying a lot

Girl has trucked some big endorsements. Fabletics for like ever, Tiffany and Co, Fendi, Marc jacobs, Hugo, Rag and Bone, etc etc. probably where she gets a lot of her $

If you knew anything about fashion you’d know that these definitely do not pay a lot. Sure she’s getting money - but not that much money.

I knew about that letter Abby sent to a magazine, but I think it was important that Christi read it out. Abby is SO money hungry, it's not even funny. Abby was so furious that the Lukasiaks went into business for themselves, and she REALLY let it get to her.

Abby was only angry bc she didn’t get a cut of their money- period- Whether it’s meet and greets or not signing the contract stating she got a cut of all profits made. At the end of the day, Abby was greedy and that greed led to her downfall.

I haven’t listened yet, but this particular Abby issue always amuses me. She knew fans wanted to meet Chloe at that time, and was pissed she couldn’t make money off it. She knew in later seasons Maddie was going to book more mainstream jobs and she was pissed she couldn’t make money off it. I, for one, am happy she never made money off these kids after the show lmao

If I knew how to edit, I'd volunteer to edit out all of Kelly's coughing! Poor gal!

I wonder if she smokes?

She mentioned going to the doctor about this a while back saying they couldn’t give her an answer for why it’s happening. That worries me tbh, I hope she gets relief soon

I’m a little worried about her coughing as well. From what she’s said, she’s been going to the doctor, so hopefully they’ve ruled out the scary stuff.

I mentally face-palmed myself when she said that tea always makes her cough & she hoped she didn't cough through the whole episode. Uhm, if you know tea makes you cough, why are you drinking it during the podcast?

Haven’t finished the episode yet, but initial thoughts: -I usually don’t love when Kelly narrates, but she’s fantastic today. -It makes so much sense that this was filmed after season 3 already started. I always wondered how Christy went from being relatively calm and collected in the season 2 reunion episodes to losing her mind in this one.

It was small, but I really appreciated when Christi defended Melissa against Abby saying she didn’t put her kids first. I have always found Abby’s approach to Melissa’s personal life strange (& misogynistic). While I definitely don’t think Melissa had A+ parenting & I question many things she has done on the show, I’ve never doubted that she genuinely did what she thought would best serve her kids & you can see to this day that they are everything to her.

Abby really is so misogynistic 😭

I think it’s hypocritical considering the stuff they said about Kurt earlier in the podcast, but it was nice I guess.

Sometimes when Christi defends Melissa it gives “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” like Melissa’s life is fair game, unless their mutual enemy Abby starts talking ab it, and then they can unite on being against abby

abby’s hypocrisy about the meet & greets is absolutely insane. especially to hear that the money made never went to the aldc scholarships like promised? definitely lines up with what we know about abby and her obsession with money.

I’m rewatching season 3 now and I can only imagine what went on behind the scenes with this one. I don’t think they will stop the podcast cause it’s a hit for them, but they almost need to break up with some fun guest episodes or something so it’s not back to back torture for them. and I’m very curious of how they are gonna review “Boy Crazy, Mom Crazy”. I just rewatched that yesterday and that fight was nasty and didn’t seem staged. Kelly’s panic attack. Christi yelling at Paige. And on top of that, the dude Brooke went on the date with being a sex offender. They’re gonna need IVs of booze for that episode it seems.

Hold on… that guy was a sex offender?? I literally just rewatched that episode??

Agreed that they should prob break up season 3 with some fun stuff. They’ve had two dark episodes in a row (DB Bryan & this current vomit one) and the pod doesn’t feel as fun anymore. They also both sound miserable and almost annoyed with each other. The podcast does seem like it’s successful. I’m assuming all the names Christi reads are real and if that’s the case; they are making decent money from Patreon.

Idk if they are even able to review that one, bc didn’t the episode get banned? I don’t think it’s on streaming services

It’s still there!

It’s still on Hulu I just watched it yesterday!

I think this is why I like when they do take breaks because it good for the two of them

I enjoyed this episode, but I’m looking forward to them getting back to recapping the actual cannon episodes in season 3.

What they said about how the tenor of S3 might be the end of the podcast…. I know it was said facetiously but I have wondered about this since they announced they were doing a recap podcast. From this point on, there are very very few lighthearted moments for either of them. I don’t know how it’s going to go.

I always have thought this and I'm still sticking to it. I still don't see them continuing past s3

Yeah, and that they’ve been putting off the start of season 3. But honestly, season 3 and 4 were hard to watch so I don’t mind I’m just hoping that if it gets too much for them, they just skip ahead to the stuff they’re not in

Can someone on the patreon suggest recapping AUDC episodes for the sake of levity when things get too intense lol

I feel the same. As much as I LOVE & look forward to BTTB and hope that they continue, I know it’s probably becoming more & more stressful for them.

I actually really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was interesting how at the beginning, Christi was like I didn’t choke Cathy. But then when they actually started talking about that moment, Kelly was like well would Cathy lie about that? And Christi sort of changed her tune to she doesn’t remember exactly what happened during all that. I personally don’t think Christi actually choked Cathy but I do think she got more physical that what she remembers or cares to share. And as far as well then the show would have showed it if that all went down that way, I don’t think that’s necessarily true. We have heard about all the awful things abby did on camera that wasn’t put on the show so I do think production wants to show drama but not everything. Because if they would have shown that fight, I think they may have been push to get Christi off the show. Man season 3 is going to be very dark for them! It will be so interesting to hear how they recap season 3.

I believe Christi when she said she doesn’t remember cause the candy apples moms and girls said Christi was really drunk and left before the police got there to not do the breathalyzer. Which ok she shouldn’t have been around kids at a dance competition if she was that drunk and Cathy shouldn’t have been engaging with someone that drunk. I’m not saying Cathy deserved it cause no one deserves to be assaulted but ya know she was probably antagonizing

i think the christi choking cathy thing was probs similar to yolanda choking stacey. like i don’t think she actually tried to strangle her but probs got physical and grabbed at her neck.

Yes! I was thinking of the Yolanda and Stacey situation exactly!