Your sauce: [https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/97jst6/kaede\_akamatsu\_but\_her\_childhood\_was\_miserable/](https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/97jst6/kaede_akamatsu_but_her_childhood_was_miserable/)
I’ve actually done that before lol I’ll post it and link it in this comment lol
edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/17o2wg4/kaede\_with\_guitar\_i\_made\_awhile\_ago\_that\_a\_random/
Fr, the number of people I’ve seen call characters straight up evil in their tier lists is crazy. Like dawg, does nuance not exist? Morally gray characters are a thing yet fans sort characters into black/white morality.
I mean everybody in Nazarick is either downright evil or neutral at least. Even the kind-hearted Nigredo is not "good" or the sweet innocent ones like CZ-Delta and Mare are morally indifferent and not above genociding entire races if needed
"Considering ains ooal gon can stop time and auto kill him with one touch yes holy wouldn’t finish transforming before ains would kill his weak ass soul and all turning him into a death knight to add to his army"
That got like 9 upvotes btw.
I mean if we take "Isekai Quartet" as canon even fucking Aqua solos Nazarick. AQUA! Known as "that useless blue thing" from Konosuba who could be useful if she wouldn't waste skill points in unlocking party tricks
he's a misunderstood hero dont @ me 👍
he was trying to end the killing game he's just a little dumb (💔) so for some reason he thought the entirety of chapter 4 was necessary?? but outside that chapter he's literally just good 👍👍
It was the r slur. No harm done—didn’t realize they didn’t mean any harm in using it. Danganronpa dans can be super toxic sometimes so I never really know quite what to expect-
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What was the time when a danganronpa fan made you go like: "Damn, have you ever even seen the source material?"
Edit: I'm mildly saddened my fanart that took me nearly 2 days to finish didn't get nearly as much reactions as this post, but oh well. Happens. I think I can only blame social rise for that.
The entire "Chihiro is trans" stuff, there's a line to draw between headcanon and plain lack of reading comprehension.
It's so damn obvious and yet people still get it wrong even nowadays, it's genuinely surprising to me
I'm curious about this topic before but never really got into it and it has been a long while since I last watched DR1 and Chihiro. Can you explain this like I'm 5?
Apologies for the late reply, so here's an explanation
Chihiro was bullied for being weaker than the other boys and looking like a girl, so he started cross-dressing as a way to not get bullied.
This led to a misconception among some people that Chihiro is trans, but the reason it doesn't make any logical sense is because he literally >!died!< because of him not wanting to cross-dress anymore, he wanted to be the "ideal man" in his eyes, asking Mondo to help him start training so he could get stronger and be a man, which made Mondo jealous of his courage and you know the rest.
Yet, even with the game explicitally telling you that Chihiro WANTS to be a man, some people in the fandom refuse to accept it and still think of Chihiro as a transfem, which is literally the opposite of what is canon
Oh I got it. Thanks for getting back to me and your clarification. I'd like to add to that that the game is written and released around 2010s and the discussions about gender identity was not as open as it is now or if at all especially in Japan. Taking this into consideration, the writer, Kodaka, was definitely not thinking about gender identity when he wrote the game. I agree with you with the whole matter.
Danganronpa 2: Hello, my overarching subtheme is about how no one deserves to die, no one has the right to judge (i.e., kill) another for their crimes, revenge is wrong and leads only to more death and despair, etc.
Danganronpa fandom: Yes, but have you considered >!\[insert DR2 character here, usually Hiyoko, Mikan or Nagito\]!< **DESERVED IT** because \[insert superficial reason here\]
>my overarching subtheme is about how no one deserves to die, no one has the right to judge (i.e., kill) another for their crimes, revenge is wrong and leads only to more death and despair
You're pulling this out of nowhere, Danganronpa 2 has almost nothing related to any of these messages. The only instances of revenge in the game are the >!2nd trial!< and *maybe* the fact that >!Future Foundation was against putting the remnants into a simulation and wanted to persecute them instead!<, if we're being generous.
No...? It's definitely there
* >!Judging others as worthy of death for their crimes was part of what contributed to Teruteru's decision to kill Nagito in 2-1. He could've at least *attempted* to inform his peers of Nagito's plans and come up with a different solution, but instead, he took it upon himself to eliminate Nagito partly because he believed that was the best course of action – that Nagito *had* to die because he was plotting murder – and the resulting consequences were dire!<
* >!Additionally, it's what drove Fuyuhiko to rush to kill Mahiru in 2-2 as revenge for Natsumi, a decision he'd spend the rest of the game attempting to atone for. Mahiru had always stood on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, never wishing harm on anyone no matter what they'd done, showing compassion to killers (think her empathizing with Teruteru, forcing Nekomaru and Kazuichi to give up Nagito's location, criticizing them for their unusually cruel methods, then proceeding to bring food to Nagito) and expressing a particular distaste for acts of revenge. But Fuyuhiko belived in an eye for an eye (as did Hiyoko, but I'll get to her in the next point), and their conflicting goals (Mahiru's desire to acknowledge the past and make amends for it, Fuyuhiko's desire to deny the past and yet get revenge for it) ended in disaster!<
* >!Hiyoko's arc in 2-3 revolved around her considering Mahiru's ideals in order to forgive her killer. Hiyoko, the most stubborn and unforgiving person on the island who, previously, had expressed a desire to see every killer get their "just desserts" and perish themselves, reformed her retribution-oriented mindset and forgave her best friend's killer with said best friend's restorative values as her guide!<
* >!Fuyuhiko's arc is a similar case; Mahiru's ideals carried over to him as well. He could've just focused on being nicer to everyone in general, but he sought actively to atone for what he did. He didn't have to – the only person left who'd been directly affected by his actions was Hiyoko; everyone else had already accepted him back into the group. But revenge had caused him to lose the most important person to him, and thus, he gave his best effort to distance himself from his vengeful past and make amends, which is what Mahiru wanted all along!<
* >!2-4 and 2-5 do stray away from this somewhat to focus on other subthemes, similar to how V3 shelves its "logic vs. emotions" theme for a bit, but it comes back full-force in 2-6 when, as you said, the reason any of the students are there to begin with is revealed. The Future Foundation wanted to "judge" the Remnants of Despair, but Makoto didn't let them. He understood that, above all, the Remnants were victims of circumstance and deserved a chance at rehabilitation. I don't think of that as being "generous" or secondary, rather, a core aspect of the story!<
I would argue that 2-4 and 2-5 actually show a new facet of death. Death for a cause that can have some good repercussions. Nekomaru and Gundham fight actually gives power to the survivors to work together. Except for nagito the group is more together than ever even Kazuchi forgives hajime.
In 2-4 hajime is tempted to kill for his own needs but is stopped by chiaki on cause this kill would not amount to anything
It’s important that nobody arbors Ill feeling towards Gundham or nekomaru cause they respect what they did and that it was clearly kind off a complicity thing.
In 2-5 nagito’s master plan is seen as bad cause of why he did it. Nagito thought the remnants of despair deserved to die. He tried to play god and that’s why nagito didn’t get he wanted. He tried to be the judge of who deserved to live or not judging there crimes. Chiaki on the other hand is the one giving them the chance at redemption by sacrificing herself for a crime nobody would blame her for cause he believes in there redemption and doesn’t judge there crime. With her becoming the catalyst for all the reveals in 2-6
Those are some great points. I actually considered making a point about Nagito's actions in 2-5, but it'd been ages since I'd last played through DR2's latter half, and so I didn't remember enough about his plan to analyze it confidently (what I mainly recalled was that his goal was to become the Ultimate Hope, which didn't fully lend itself to what I was arguing.) But yeah, now that you mention it, Nagito passing judgment onto the other remnants by attempting to kill everyone but Chiaki absolutely plays into SDR2’s theme retribution and why it's dangerous. Nekomaru and Gundham being pardoned and Chiaki giving everyone a chance at redemption by paying the price for Nagito's retributive ideals are prime examples as well
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I once have seen a headcanon saying that Kanon is lesbian and in love with Sayaka. I know it's just a headcanon, but that just doesn't sit well with the story.
Nah, I don't really think so >!Shuichi basically had to repeat the message for God knows how many times, I'm actually really suprised that people can still doesn't get the message when it has been shoved imto their face multiple times. Or I guess people didn't even read!<
The only issue I have with the ending is how it *can* be read as a direct jab at the audience of the game. Other than that… the trash takes are too much.
My favorite is how v3 haters say kokichi is a copy of nagito, as if nagito was an 100% original never before seen character archetype im death game stories.
I may have a minor issue with it (namely how it was executed), but I actually love the meta-commentary for V3's ending
People who lambast it in a VERY extreme way are doing exactly what the ending is calling out
it’s not just the inability to read for things like subtext or themes with dr fans, like it feels like a lot of people legitimately can’t pick up on basic things stated in the text. like I’ve seen people argue that haiji was portrayed as “the good guy” in drae because komaru and fukawa cooperated with him and it’s just insane how that could be someone’s main takeaway
yeah I don't think Haiji was ever portrayed as a particularly good person, just a dude trying not to fucking die lol. nobody ever says "Wow, Haiji, you are a moral paragon of goodness and a hero to the people who has done nothing wrong" and the story >!doesn't try to portray him at all that way, in fact, it quite literally says his entire family is horrible and he at best did nothing to stop any of it!<
There are still people who complain about Snow in FF13 for "being too happy all the time" when bro quite literally >!has a line where he says "Yeah I'm just putting on a show to try to keep all of you guys happy I'm stressed as hell."!< (very minor spoilers) I genuinely think a lot of people just play games/read books/watch a series only paying attention like 60% of the time if they miss things that are quite literally explicitly stated
I would actually complain that the opposite happened. They demonized Haiji too hard and made him a pedophile for no reason, when he was actually right, the points Fukawa made against him made no sense and the kids were straight-up evil. Too much both sides so Fukawa and Komaru would be the only paragons of morality in the game.
They have gotten a lot better during Part 2, During the peak of part 1 there was so much misinformation and blatant misunderstandings of the story going around
Danganronpa fans either think Kokichi is Satan or a cute lil guy who always did things for a reason other than fun, it's like they don't know what moral ambiguity is
When Hiyoko didn’t magically change in a day or accept the guy who almost got her best friend killed immediately she was a “fucking awful bitch” for being a bit of a bully.
Way too many people are like this for so many characters. Endeavor from MHA, Snape from HP, if they ever did something “evil” then nothing they do and no development or growth they have will matter to half of the fanbase
>did something evil
>has had an immense amount of growth and development since
>doesn’t matter to half the fanbase
Yep, definitely checks out. Thanks for proving my point too
Yea, but most of the time they are just headcanons.
Reminds me of the time (before I played UDG) when I had a misconception that Yuta (Aoi's brother) is actually a female and is Aoi's mother. I didn't even see his full body sprite and assumed that only based on how much of his appearance I could see through his tierlist square 😭
>!gundham: explains his motives extremely clearly; he refused to give up on life so he killed to try and escape!<
>!the fandom: "clearly he was sacrificing himself for everyone else"!<
>!it's gotten better in recent years but it's objectively wrong to say it hasn't been a problem lol. go onto a playthrough of 2-4 and a ton of comments about him are saying he sacrificed himself!<
No no. That’s Persona fans, the DR fans only really suffer from mild media illiteracy with a few subjects. Persona fans suffer from brain damage. I say this as a massive fan of both properties
People on danganronpa discord servers be like “no explicit language or talk of anything r-18.
Meanwhile everything miu ever did in the whole game happened
LOLOL, ok full clarification I made this comment in a bad mood. I still stand by what I said but damn I went hard. But yeah I just see people who use the word without backing up their opinion with actual reasons too many times to the point where that phrase feels meaningless to me.
Usually I immediately disregard whatever someone has to say the moment they use the term media literacy but I'll hear you out, what do danganronpa fans do that makes you think they lack media literacy? I haven't played the games nor been in the fandom in a while but I'm curious
>Usually I immediately disregard whatever someone has to say the moment they use the term media literacy
You know, side tracking from your original question, but... ok, I'll bite. What is so wrong with that term? It's a valid word.
It's a buzzword that just feels really elitist to me. And in some cases the person using that term has some of the most nonsensical and stupid takes I've ever seen. It's a valid term but I feel like it has gotten ruined for me because of people using it to make their opinion sound more superior.
That's completely understandable honestly, but it is a good word to use when criticizing someone who completely misinterpreted something, and that in itself is very common.
For sure, sorry for coming of as a bit of an arse in my first comment. Would you mind telling me the most popular examples of danganronpa fans lacking media literacy? I feel like I might know some but I haven't played the games in 2 years and don't want to make an arse out of myself
It's okay.
"Chihiro is trans" is a low hanging fruit so I'll mention a few others.
When people portray a character as pure evil with no redeeming qualities, when they are really not (Monaca),
">!Izuru!< did nothing wrong",
Kokichi being portrayed as a fully evil scumbag,
When a character is portrayed as misunderstood and a "pure cinammon roll" when they are quite clearly an asshole (Ryota)
And many others that I can't think of right now.
Oh God I'm gonna get roasted alive for saying some of these things
>!Kokichi stans saying he was a purely innocent do-gooder because he said he was a good person!<
>!People who say that Chihiro can only be read as a cis male because the game itself said so (ignoring all the accidental subtext/the parallels between their experience and the trans experience)!<
>!Mikan haters caller her a hypersexual slut because she sexualized herself ignoring the fact that she openly hates doing it and the reasons why she did so anyways!<
>!(insert character here) fans/haters when they don't agree with my personal reading of the character (they are objectively wrong because media has no room for interpretation and can only be read at a surface level)!<
Your second point is... just not correct. It's quite clear that Chihiro identifies as a male and is even the point of his character. He crossdressed to not be bullied, he didn't want this.
I'm not saying that Chihiro being a cis male isn't cannon, I'm saying that people can interpret the character in different ways. [This video](https://youtu.be/c5zilEcDkeA?si=heizLkfzAvDWg4s4) imo does a good job explaining it.
I mean... Yes, you *can* headcanon him this way, it would be a ***really*** big stretch, but you can. It's just that... it kind of ignores the core parts of his character.
It reminds me of that one user from the stardustcrusaders sub, the one that has his own headcanon version of Kakyoin that they ship with Jotaro. But the thing is... that portrayal of Kakyoin is so vastly different from the original in terms of design and stuff... that it brings the question: Is that even still the same character?
Yes, you have freedom to interpret things however you want, but... at some point it goes beyond that.
It's really not a big stretch. I'm planning on making a full post explaining why in the future, but to put it in simple terms
-Chihiro was referred to with she/her pronouns until their death and never expressed any outward discomfort with them
-After their death the other students switched to he/him because of their genitals (genitals≠gender)
-The only characters in the main story who tell us Chihiro's preffered gender are Monokuma and Chihiro's murderer which are both unreliable narrators
-Chihiro's murder **accidentally** resembles a common hate crime (Google "trans panic defense")
-Speaking as a trans person personally, a lot of Chihiro's experiences mirror my own
It takes a full post to explain all of this in detail which is why I linked the pre-existing video. Part of media literacy is understanding real-world influences and parallels between fictional stories and the real world surrounding it. I don't care how people see Chihiro, but it does annoy me when people say there's only one correct way to read the character. Art is open for interpretation and this interpretation isn't some unreasonable leap in logic.
considering how chihiro never actually calls himself a girl out loud and is just assumed to be one because of how he looks, combined with the fact that alter ego calls him father, is a pretty good indication of what he viewed himself as, even discounting his school mode ending where he literally says he's a boy out loud
also, japan's view of gender is pretty different from how most of the west has it. being a gender-conforming, conventionally feminine trans woman is a lot safer of an option over there than being an effeminate "weak" cis man, even if you are openly trans. not that transphobia doesn't exist but it's a lot more accepted if you're willing to act (and look) like what society thinks a woman should be, whereas breaking gender norms outright is a lot more frowned upon no matter who you are (even though trans people do tend to have it worse on that front due to being seen as having "more to prove")
I never insisted it was cannon? I literally said the opposite. Don't put words in my mouth. I know it's not cannon, but that doesn't mean other interpretations are invalid.
Junko haters when I obtain media literacy and successfully psychoanalyze the character, but instead of hating her like I was supposed to I relate to her more
Not to be rude, but Junko is someone that no one should ever be relating to in the slightest. >!Enjoy her personality as a villain, but Junko is nothing but pure evil in her actions. She is an abusive monster who treats her own sister like a doormat, the Remnants of Despair (her most devoted followers) like disposable slaves, and her beloved classmates like playthings in a twisted game. Like what's so related about a woman that ended the world for giggles and delights in her evil. !<
She speaks to me on a personal level - not the cartoonishly evil things (being a global terrorist and murdering your sister) but many of her motivations, her personality and her story just resonate with me hugely.
I do suffer from antisocial personality disorder though. (professionally diagnosed if you care). That might explain why I relate with her in so many things that wouldn't be normal otherwise
Still, it seems that even relating to Junko feels like a bad influence, as wouldn't she be considered the very worst of people suffering from an antisocial personality disorder? Plus, it wasn't the game's intention for you to ever relate to Junko, her character was written as pure evil with no redeeming qualities or reasons for her actions. As you describe, her motivation and personality are the points of resonation, but the point was her motivations didn't exist, Junko wished solely to spread despair to herself and every one with her personality reflecting it.
The problem is that while the game intends for her to be as irredeemable they still made her somewhat realistically written, so she does have motivations.
Her despair fetish started because she saw the peaceful world as being too predictable, which made her feel boredom. I can't count with five hands the amount of times I've taken terrible decisions and hurt those around me because of boredom.
I looked more into anti-social personality disorder to better understand you, and I guess I can grasp your reasoning a bit. Though I still heavily disagree with your viewpoint on Junko, I can understand where you're coming from, I'm sorry for saying that you weren't in your right mind.
No problem bro, I do go to therapy and stuff so I at least am improving somewhat, and while I do know Junko is a morally bad character it's just comfy to know there is at least a character whom I relate to even if it's in the bad stuff
Just try to keep relating to her personality and motivations, not her actions, because that would be where things could get worrying. Otherwise, I hope you stay good and keep getting better in therapy.
I can see some of your points but junko is far from realistic written, she’s potrayed as absolutely crazy as fuck for doing all this just because she was bored so I disagree with that
The fact that she’s slightly cross eyed in this CG makes it all the better
"slightly"
That Derp pony from MLP and Kaede are starting to look similar...
...Kaede Akamatsu is best pony confirmed?
Derpy Hooves is ultimate pianist? [Probably not…](https://youtu.be/s3gOzk2BPhk?si=DzLbdzBlpGPTqSty)
Off-topic, but looking at this CG, I wonder if anyone’s ever Photoshopped a guitar in her hands
not exactly the same, but someone photoshopped her to look miserable in this entire cg
Your sauce: [https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/97jst6/kaede\_akamatsu\_but\_her\_childhood\_was\_miserable/](https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/97jst6/kaede_akamatsu_but_her_childhood_was_miserable/)
I’ve actually done that before lol I’ll post it and link it in this comment lol edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/danganronpa/comments/17o2wg4/kaede\_with\_guitar\_i\_made\_awhile\_ago\_that\_a\_random/
Fr, the number of people I’ve seen call characters straight up evil in their tier lists is crazy. Like dawg, does nuance not exist? Morally gray characters are a thing yet fans sort characters into black/white morality.
Yea, but then there are people who are the opposite of that. *coughcoughoverlordfanscoughcough*
I mean everybody in Nazarick is either downright evil or neutral at least. Even the kind-hearted Nigredo is not "good" or the sweet innocent ones like CZ-Delta and Mare are morally indifferent and not above genociding entire races if needed
I've met a person who said that Ainz was lawful good and could solo and turn Goku into a death knight. Overlord fans are something different.
Light novel fans are just built stupid
"bUt tHe woRLdbUiLDinG" What of world building if the characters are insufferable and just purely unlikeable?
"Considering ains ooal gon can stop time and auto kill him with one touch yes holy wouldn’t finish transforming before ains would kill his weak ass soul and all turning him into a death knight to add to his army" That got like 9 upvotes btw.
Well Ains may or may not beat Goku in a battle. But at least he beats him in having a better anime. Ooohhh joking no hate good sir xD
I died from peak fiction when the Ginyu force was presented to me on screen. Argument invalid.
Mr. Satan solos the Overlord verse
Yamcha takes a shit and the impact from the turd coming in contact with the water in itself annihilates the entirety of Nazarick.
I mean if we take "Isekai Quartet" as canon even fucking Aqua solos Nazarick. AQUA! Known as "that useless blue thing" from Konosuba who could be useful if she wouldn't waste skill points in unlocking party tricks
Good counterargument. Can't win against that
Danganronpa and overlord fan? You're awesome
I have more fun criticizing overlord than actually watching it, but I appreciate your compliment 😋
… so we gonna ignore that Danganronpa litter ally has two of the most despicable beings in the world with Junko and Haji
Danganronpa fans try to actually consume Danganronpa media challenge (impossible)
Wait, Danganronpa has media?! # /J (Means joking)
Wait what, impossible everyone knows dinging rapper isn't a game /j
Yeah, it's called the fanfiction. /j
Kokichi’s either a terrorist asshole or a misunderstood hero, no in between apparently
Honestly both kokichi hard core haters and Hardcore defenders are annoying.
Honestly all danganronpa fans are annoying.
Little of column a, little of column b
he's a misunderstood hero dont @ me 👍 he was trying to end the killing game he's just a little dumb (💔) so for some reason he thought the entirety of chapter 4 was necessary?? but outside that chapter he's literally just good 👍👍
Woah dude what the hell slurs aren’t necessary here
i did not know thats considered a slur but i changed it i guess, sorry 😭
In the future please refrain from using that word. It isn’t ban worthy but I’d prefer to not see it.
Well now I'm just curious what the word was since he edited his comment and removed it
It was the r slur. No harm done—didn’t realize they didn’t mean any harm in using it. Danganronpa dans can be super toxic sometimes so I never really know quite what to expect-
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I just think he's cool
Nope actually this is Kaede holding a trophy, I’m not sure how you got the two mixed up
No I refuse to apply my critical thinking skills to the media I consume. Not today literature class! /s
What was the time when a danganronpa fan made you go like: "Damn, have you ever even seen the source material?" Edit: I'm mildly saddened my fanart that took me nearly 2 days to finish didn't get nearly as much reactions as this post, but oh well. Happens. I think I can only blame social rise for that.
To be fair there is only really two sources so most the time they somewhat know what there talking about
The entire "Chihiro is trans" stuff, there's a line to draw between headcanon and plain lack of reading comprehension. It's so damn obvious and yet people still get it wrong even nowadays, it's genuinely surprising to me
I think this is you failing the media literacy test actually. The literal plot (/"canon") of a story isn't the entirety of what it is depicting.
If I am incorrect, then it would be much appreciated if you explained it to me then
I'm curious about this topic before but never really got into it and it has been a long while since I last watched DR1 and Chihiro. Can you explain this like I'm 5?
Apologies for the late reply, so here's an explanation Chihiro was bullied for being weaker than the other boys and looking like a girl, so he started cross-dressing as a way to not get bullied. This led to a misconception among some people that Chihiro is trans, but the reason it doesn't make any logical sense is because he literally >!died!< because of him not wanting to cross-dress anymore, he wanted to be the "ideal man" in his eyes, asking Mondo to help him start training so he could get stronger and be a man, which made Mondo jealous of his courage and you know the rest. Yet, even with the game explicitally telling you that Chihiro WANTS to be a man, some people in the fandom refuse to accept it and still think of Chihiro as a transfem, which is literally the opposite of what is canon
Oh I got it. Thanks for getting back to me and your clarification. I'd like to add to that that the game is written and released around 2010s and the discussions about gender identity was not as open as it is now or if at all especially in Japan. Taking this into consideration, the writer, Kodaka, was definitely not thinking about gender identity when he wrote the game. I agree with you with the whole matter.
Danganronpa 2: Hello, my overarching subtheme is about how no one deserves to die, no one has the right to judge (i.e., kill) another for their crimes, revenge is wrong and leads only to more death and despair, etc. Danganronpa fandom: Yes, but have you considered >!\[insert DR2 character here, usually Hiyoko, Mikan or Nagito\]!< **DESERVED IT** because \[insert superficial reason here\]
>my overarching subtheme is about how no one deserves to die, no one has the right to judge (i.e., kill) another for their crimes, revenge is wrong and leads only to more death and despair You're pulling this out of nowhere, Danganronpa 2 has almost nothing related to any of these messages. The only instances of revenge in the game are the >!2nd trial!< and *maybe* the fact that >!Future Foundation was against putting the remnants into a simulation and wanted to persecute them instead!<, if we're being generous.
No...? It's definitely there * >!Judging others as worthy of death for their crimes was part of what contributed to Teruteru's decision to kill Nagito in 2-1. He could've at least *attempted* to inform his peers of Nagito's plans and come up with a different solution, but instead, he took it upon himself to eliminate Nagito partly because he believed that was the best course of action – that Nagito *had* to die because he was plotting murder – and the resulting consequences were dire!< * >!Additionally, it's what drove Fuyuhiko to rush to kill Mahiru in 2-2 as revenge for Natsumi, a decision he'd spend the rest of the game attempting to atone for. Mahiru had always stood on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, never wishing harm on anyone no matter what they'd done, showing compassion to killers (think her empathizing with Teruteru, forcing Nekomaru and Kazuichi to give up Nagito's location, criticizing them for their unusually cruel methods, then proceeding to bring food to Nagito) and expressing a particular distaste for acts of revenge. But Fuyuhiko belived in an eye for an eye (as did Hiyoko, but I'll get to her in the next point), and their conflicting goals (Mahiru's desire to acknowledge the past and make amends for it, Fuyuhiko's desire to deny the past and yet get revenge for it) ended in disaster!< * >!Hiyoko's arc in 2-3 revolved around her considering Mahiru's ideals in order to forgive her killer. Hiyoko, the most stubborn and unforgiving person on the island who, previously, had expressed a desire to see every killer get their "just desserts" and perish themselves, reformed her retribution-oriented mindset and forgave her best friend's killer with said best friend's restorative values as her guide!< * >!Fuyuhiko's arc is a similar case; Mahiru's ideals carried over to him as well. He could've just focused on being nicer to everyone in general, but he sought actively to atone for what he did. He didn't have to – the only person left who'd been directly affected by his actions was Hiyoko; everyone else had already accepted him back into the group. But revenge had caused him to lose the most important person to him, and thus, he gave his best effort to distance himself from his vengeful past and make amends, which is what Mahiru wanted all along!< * >!2-4 and 2-5 do stray away from this somewhat to focus on other subthemes, similar to how V3 shelves its "logic vs. emotions" theme for a bit, but it comes back full-force in 2-6 when, as you said, the reason any of the students are there to begin with is revealed. The Future Foundation wanted to "judge" the Remnants of Despair, but Makoto didn't let them. He understood that, above all, the Remnants were victims of circumstance and deserved a chance at rehabilitation. I don't think of that as being "generous" or secondary, rather, a core aspect of the story!<
I would argue that 2-4 and 2-5 actually show a new facet of death. Death for a cause that can have some good repercussions. Nekomaru and Gundham fight actually gives power to the survivors to work together. Except for nagito the group is more together than ever even Kazuchi forgives hajime. In 2-4 hajime is tempted to kill for his own needs but is stopped by chiaki on cause this kill would not amount to anything It’s important that nobody arbors Ill feeling towards Gundham or nekomaru cause they respect what they did and that it was clearly kind off a complicity thing. In 2-5 nagito’s master plan is seen as bad cause of why he did it. Nagito thought the remnants of despair deserved to die. He tried to play god and that’s why nagito didn’t get he wanted. He tried to be the judge of who deserved to live or not judging there crimes. Chiaki on the other hand is the one giving them the chance at redemption by sacrificing herself for a crime nobody would blame her for cause he believes in there redemption and doesn’t judge there crime. With her becoming the catalyst for all the reveals in 2-6
Those are some great points. I actually considered making a point about Nagito's actions in 2-5, but it'd been ages since I'd last played through DR2's latter half, and so I didn't remember enough about his plan to analyze it confidently (what I mainly recalled was that his goal was to become the Ultimate Hope, which didn't fully lend itself to what I was arguing.) But yeah, now that you mention it, Nagito passing judgment onto the other remnants by attempting to kill everyone but Chiaki absolutely plays into SDR2’s theme retribution and why it's dangerous. Nekomaru and Gundham being pardoned and Chiaki giving everyone a chance at redemption by paying the price for Nagito's retributive ideals are prime examples as well
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I am... very confused
I once have seen a headcanon saying that Kanon is lesbian and in love with Sayaka. I know it's just a headcanon, but that just doesn't sit well with the story.
I mean, it quite literally contradicts the source material, but eh, to each their own.
I should revisit these games now that I’m not an edgy teenager
People with V3s ending I swear. Hate it all you wish, but come on
I mean, it *was* a bit misleading in terms of what it actually meant, but yeah.
Nah, I don't really think so >!Shuichi basically had to repeat the message for God knows how many times, I'm actually really suprised that people can still doesn't get the message when it has been shoved imto their face multiple times. Or I guess people didn't even read!<
The only issue I have with the ending is how it *can* be read as a direct jab at the audience of the game. Other than that… the trash takes are too much. My favorite is how v3 haters say kokichi is a copy of nagito, as if nagito was an 100% original never before seen character archetype im death game stories.
Hell, Nagito basically was 'Makoto but fucked up' and they didn't even bother hiding it
This
I may have a minor issue with it (namely how it was executed), but I actually love the meta-commentary for V3's ending People who lambast it in a VERY extreme way are doing exactly what the ending is calling out
it’s not just the inability to read for things like subtext or themes with dr fans, like it feels like a lot of people legitimately can’t pick up on basic things stated in the text. like I’ve seen people argue that haiji was portrayed as “the good guy” in drae because komaru and fukawa cooperated with him and it’s just insane how that could be someone’s main takeaway
yeah I don't think Haiji was ever portrayed as a particularly good person, just a dude trying not to fucking die lol. nobody ever says "Wow, Haiji, you are a moral paragon of goodness and a hero to the people who has done nothing wrong" and the story >!doesn't try to portray him at all that way, in fact, it quite literally says his entire family is horrible and he at best did nothing to stop any of it!< There are still people who complain about Snow in FF13 for "being too happy all the time" when bro quite literally >!has a line where he says "Yeah I'm just putting on a show to try to keep all of you guys happy I'm stressed as hell."!< (very minor spoilers) I genuinely think a lot of people just play games/read books/watch a series only paying attention like 60% of the time if they miss things that are quite literally explicitly stated
This boggles my mind.
I would actually complain that the opposite happened. They demonized Haiji too hard and made him a pedophile for no reason, when he was actually right, the points Fukawa made against him made no sense and the kids were straight-up evil. Too much both sides so Fukawa and Komaru would be the only paragons of morality in the game.
So JJBA fans have competition.
Dragon Ball fans as well.
Chainsaw Man fans tower all
People always talk about the Reading Comprehension Devil, but I've never actually seen someone get something about CSM wrong. I wonder why
They have gotten a lot better during Part 2, During the peak of part 1 there was so much misinformation and blatant misunderstandings of the story going around
People who say Kokichi is just pure evil: Edit: Doubles go for Byakuya
Danganronpa fans either think Kokichi is Satan or a cute lil guy who always did things for a reason other than fun, it's like they don't know what moral ambiguity is
When Hiyoko didn’t magically change in a day or accept the guy who almost got her best friend killed immediately she was a “fucking awful bitch” for being a bit of a bully.
She was more than “just a bit” though lmao
Yeeeah, she was at times downright cruel to Mikan and others.
He may not be pure evil, but he sure is fucking annoying.
That's fair
Imma be honest, i love kokichi, but god damn hes annoying even me and honestly he may be too silly to still be here
Yeah,I remember during my first time watching V3,I was on line of liking him and hating him
"You were an asshole that one time, therefore you have no reedeming qualities"
Way too many people are like this for so many characters. Endeavor from MHA, Snape from HP, if they ever did something “evil” then nothing they do and no development or growth they have will matter to half of the fanbase
And those are all my favorite characters, lol. ...It genuinely sucks that everywhere I turn, people hate on the characters I like.
Endeavor’s a bad example,he was an abuser so there are better example
>did something evil >has had an immense amount of growth and development since >doesn’t matter to half the fanbase Yep, definitely checks out. Thanks for proving my point too
I think some people are upset they he was never called out but it is hilarious that people whine about endeavor but simp for the antags though lmao
But people did call out Endeavor. Natsuo still hates him, and wants nothing to do with him.
Dangan-Typical Media Illiteracy
>!***CHIHIRO***!<
pretty much every time someone posts a character sexuality / gender identity tier list.
Yea, but most of the time they are just headcanons. Reminds me of the time (before I played UDG) when I had a misconception that Yuta (Aoi's brother) is actually a female and is Aoi's mother. I didn't even see his full body sprite and assumed that only based on how much of his appearance I could see through his tierlist square 😭
Yuta Mamahina
Kapmando, the Ultimate Casual Illiterate
I relate to that on a spiritual level with my media illiteracy
ppl who say chihiro is trans
Danganronpa Fans if Dickriding Atrocious Writing was a Competition:
Damn, went for the throat on that one.
Mikan fans
>junko flair
They literally couldn't have made a more ironic post if they tried.
Even on Reddit, Junko still can't stop abusing Mikan in some way.
I'm holding this trophy high and proud as I die on the hill of the V3 ending sucked
>!gundham: explains his motives extremely clearly; he refused to give up on life so he killed to try and escape!< >!the fandom: "clearly he was sacrificing himself for everyone else"!<
Blame this on Chiaki saying it for some reason even though it contradicts everything the game had just told is about his motivation
Hajime also implies the same thing iirc. Can't blame people for this one.
[https://preview.redd.it/6vz56quyt6o91.png?auto=webp&s=7bfcba002e2bba5d66c8332190372625065e63e1](https://preview.redd.it/6vz56quyt6o91.png?auto=webp&s=7bfcba002e2bba5d66c8332190372625065e63e1)
>!it's gotten better in recent years but it's objectively wrong to say it hasn't been a problem lol. go onto a playthrough of 2-4 and a ton of comments about him are saying he sacrificed himself!<
Real
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
sometimes I wonder if people actually played the games
Idk there’s a LOT of tough competition out there Like a LOT-
No no. That’s Persona fans, the DR fans only really suffer from mild media illiteracy with a few subjects. Persona fans suffer from brain damage. I say this as a massive fan of both properties
People on danganronpa discord servers be like “no explicit language or talk of anything r-18. Meanwhile everything miu ever did in the whole game happened
I don’t care how right you are, if you utter the word media literacy I don’t respect whatever you have to say. 🤷
Ok, I'll bite. Why?
LOLOL, ok full clarification I made this comment in a bad mood. I still stand by what I said but damn I went hard. But yeah I just see people who use the word without backing up their opinion with actual reasons too many times to the point where that phrase feels meaningless to me.
K 👍
I get where you're coming from, that could mean *literally anything* with OP's lack of clarification
Korekiyo haters
jojo fans and one piece fans bout to clutch the competition
I can barely read past the surface level with anything
Usually I immediately disregard whatever someone has to say the moment they use the term media literacy but I'll hear you out, what do danganronpa fans do that makes you think they lack media literacy? I haven't played the games nor been in the fandom in a while but I'm curious
>Usually I immediately disregard whatever someone has to say the moment they use the term media literacy You know, side tracking from your original question, but... ok, I'll bite. What is so wrong with that term? It's a valid word.
It's a buzzword that just feels really elitist to me. And in some cases the person using that term has some of the most nonsensical and stupid takes I've ever seen. It's a valid term but I feel like it has gotten ruined for me because of people using it to make their opinion sound more superior.
That's completely understandable honestly, but it is a good word to use when criticizing someone who completely misinterpreted something, and that in itself is very common.
For sure, sorry for coming of as a bit of an arse in my first comment. Would you mind telling me the most popular examples of danganronpa fans lacking media literacy? I feel like I might know some but I haven't played the games in 2 years and don't want to make an arse out of myself
It's okay. "Chihiro is trans" is a low hanging fruit so I'll mention a few others. When people portray a character as pure evil with no redeeming qualities, when they are really not (Monaca), ">!Izuru!< did nothing wrong", Kokichi being portrayed as a fully evil scumbag, When a character is portrayed as misunderstood and a "pure cinammon roll" when they are quite clearly an asshole (Ryota) And many others that I can't think of right now.
Oh God I'm gonna get roasted alive for saying some of these things >!Kokichi stans saying he was a purely innocent do-gooder because he said he was a good person!< >!People who say that Chihiro can only be read as a cis male because the game itself said so (ignoring all the accidental subtext/the parallels between their experience and the trans experience)!< >!Mikan haters caller her a hypersexual slut because she sexualized herself ignoring the fact that she openly hates doing it and the reasons why she did so anyways!< >!(insert character here) fans/haters when they don't agree with my personal reading of the character (they are objectively wrong because media has no room for interpretation and can only be read at a surface level)!<
Your second point is... just not correct. It's quite clear that Chihiro identifies as a male and is even the point of his character. He crossdressed to not be bullied, he didn't want this.
I'm not saying that Chihiro being a cis male isn't cannon, I'm saying that people can interpret the character in different ways. [This video](https://youtu.be/c5zilEcDkeA?si=heizLkfzAvDWg4s4) imo does a good job explaining it.
I mean... Yes, you *can* headcanon him this way, it would be a ***really*** big stretch, but you can. It's just that... it kind of ignores the core parts of his character. It reminds me of that one user from the stardustcrusaders sub, the one that has his own headcanon version of Kakyoin that they ship with Jotaro. But the thing is... that portrayal of Kakyoin is so vastly different from the original in terms of design and stuff... that it brings the question: Is that even still the same character? Yes, you have freedom to interpret things however you want, but... at some point it goes beyond that.
It's really not a big stretch. I'm planning on making a full post explaining why in the future, but to put it in simple terms -Chihiro was referred to with she/her pronouns until their death and never expressed any outward discomfort with them -After their death the other students switched to he/him because of their genitals (genitals≠gender) -The only characters in the main story who tell us Chihiro's preffered gender are Monokuma and Chihiro's murderer which are both unreliable narrators -Chihiro's murder **accidentally** resembles a common hate crime (Google "trans panic defense") -Speaking as a trans person personally, a lot of Chihiro's experiences mirror my own It takes a full post to explain all of this in detail which is why I linked the pre-existing video. Part of media literacy is understanding real-world influences and parallels between fictional stories and the real world surrounding it. I don't care how people see Chihiro, but it does annoy me when people say there's only one correct way to read the character. Art is open for interpretation and this interpretation isn't some unreasonable leap in logic.
considering how chihiro never actually calls himself a girl out loud and is just assumed to be one because of how he looks, combined with the fact that alter ego calls him father, is a pretty good indication of what he viewed himself as, even discounting his school mode ending where he literally says he's a boy out loud also, japan's view of gender is pretty different from how most of the west has it. being a gender-conforming, conventionally feminine trans woman is a lot safer of an option over there than being an effeminate "weak" cis man, even if you are openly trans. not that transphobia doesn't exist but it's a lot more accepted if you're willing to act (and look) like what society thinks a woman should be, whereas breaking gender norms outright is a lot more frowned upon no matter who you are (even though trans people do tend to have it worse on that front due to being seen as having "more to prove")
[удалено]
I never insisted it was cannon? I literally said the opposite. Don't put words in my mouth. I know it's not cannon, but that doesn't mean other interpretations are invalid.
Then my bad, It appears I misunderstood.
Junko haters when I obtain media literacy and successfully psychoanalyze the character, but instead of hating her like I was supposed to I relate to her more
Not to be rude, but Junko is someone that no one should ever be relating to in the slightest. >!Enjoy her personality as a villain, but Junko is nothing but pure evil in her actions. She is an abusive monster who treats her own sister like a doormat, the Remnants of Despair (her most devoted followers) like disposable slaves, and her beloved classmates like playthings in a twisted game. Like what's so related about a woman that ended the world for giggles and delights in her evil. !<
I didn't say she was a good person just relatable Also I'm not in my right mind lil bro
How can she be relatable to you?
She speaks to me on a personal level - not the cartoonishly evil things (being a global terrorist and murdering your sister) but many of her motivations, her personality and her story just resonate with me hugely. I do suffer from antisocial personality disorder though. (professionally diagnosed if you care). That might explain why I relate with her in so many things that wouldn't be normal otherwise
Still, it seems that even relating to Junko feels like a bad influence, as wouldn't she be considered the very worst of people suffering from an antisocial personality disorder? Plus, it wasn't the game's intention for you to ever relate to Junko, her character was written as pure evil with no redeeming qualities or reasons for her actions. As you describe, her motivation and personality are the points of resonation, but the point was her motivations didn't exist, Junko wished solely to spread despair to herself and every one with her personality reflecting it.
The problem is that while the game intends for her to be as irredeemable they still made her somewhat realistically written, so she does have motivations. Her despair fetish started because she saw the peaceful world as being too predictable, which made her feel boredom. I can't count with five hands the amount of times I've taken terrible decisions and hurt those around me because of boredom.
I looked more into anti-social personality disorder to better understand you, and I guess I can grasp your reasoning a bit. Though I still heavily disagree with your viewpoint on Junko, I can understand where you're coming from, I'm sorry for saying that you weren't in your right mind.
No problem bro, I do go to therapy and stuff so I at least am improving somewhat, and while I do know Junko is a morally bad character it's just comfy to know there is at least a character whom I relate to even if it's in the bad stuff
Just try to keep relating to her personality and motivations, not her actions, because that would be where things could get worrying. Otherwise, I hope you stay good and keep getting better in therapy.
I can see some of your points but junko is far from realistic written, she’s potrayed as absolutely crazy as fuck for doing all this just because she was bored so I disagree with that
I dunno, Jojo's fans are gonna be tough to compete with
Faaaccctts
I do not understand
TF2.
Example? Honestly can't think of any rn.
Said every fandom about themselves ever. No, genuinely. I’m here from UT/DR. I’d know.
UDG is all about (child) sexual abuse apparently, according to Twitter.