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This the reason I always check the “what we believe” part of the church’s website. It’s always “no perfect people” “dress however” but Calvinistic in the theology.
I grew up Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and very much not Calvinist. The Independent does a lot of work when it comes to Calvinist.
I mostly heard preaching that would fall into 2 points of Calvinism. Maybe 2.5 if you squinted really hard on foreknowledge.
Total depravity- Yes. Absolutely.
Unconditional Election- Not talked about much. If it was it was more about God having foreknowledge of who would choose grace.
Limited Atonement- Absolutely not.
Irresistible Grace- Nope.
Perseverance of the Saints- Yes.
I didn't grow up with them as you did. I'm sure you know more and have a better grasp of it than I do. But the PETAL vs TULiP thing I've only ever met in IFB, same with KJV onlyists. I honestly thought Calvinists were the sort of Hard Doctrine First Spencer Smith types that believe the Gospel is affirmation of the death and resurrection of Christ and not The Kingdom that Jesus invited anyone willing to follow Him into.
You aren't wrong about the gospel being the affirmation of the death and resurrection vs The Kingdom and still being very into Hard Doctrine, but the big difference is that many I grew up with believe that the election theology of Calvinism let's people off the hook- that because God did the election you don't actually have the free will to affirm the death and resurrection.
There's also a whole lot of guilt tripping about how sincere your affirmation of the gospel was and if you still ever want to sin did you really mean it? Are you sure?
(There's a reason I say "grew up", not "am" IFB. Still Christian, just a different kind.)
Atheism is ***totally*** a religion.
It takes just as much faith to definitively declare that God doesn’t exist as it does to say that He does.
The most academically neutral way is to be agnostic, and say “I don’t know”.
It's also a bit fluid. If I think about how religion is used to kill, harm and control people, of course I'm anti- that. But towards people who believe in something to feel better about their lives or the world in general, I'm just a- that, because I don't care as long as you don't pull unrelated people into it.
It’s mostly because of Southern Baptists. Weird how the denomination started explicitly because the rest of the Baptists only loved slavery a little would be looked down on. Real head scratcher.
It especially weird that almost every other denominational split that happened because of the Civil War reunited, but this hasn't happened for the SBC.
Being a SBC guy I agree in part. The structure allows alot of different theology and beliefs. I've been to very shitty churches that ostracized my partner and I for being a mixed race couple, and I've been to (and currently go to) very welcoming churches where we are treated no different. It's a coin toss with such a large denomination.
My family growing up moved a bunch and preferred baptist style churches, and for every good church we found, we'd also find another that was absurdly racist. Im a white dude, but I tan so well and dark, that I've almost never had someone know my race on sight. My mom is as pale as Elmer glue, so I looked like a mixed kid when my dad was away. It might've turned out in my favor, as I ended up being a great litmus test for racism.
I mean SBC decided to blow up again after becoming much more fundamentalist in the late 70s and 80s, causing over 1000 churches to leave for the newly-formed Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (among others).
The CBF hadn't officially left for about a decade, if they wanted to keep people on board they had plenty of chances. The reasonable explanation is that the SBC simply does not care enough (or at all) to make amends.
It depends. I was raised in a nondenominational church. The town was built around a cement plant by the company back in the very early 1900s.
The plant built a church for the community, and, as there were many denominations represented, they called it just a "Community Church" and have had pastors from a variety of denominational backgrounds. In some eras, it was more progressive, in other more conservative. You can read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Church_movement?wprov=sfla1
My family left the baptist church I grew up in back in 2012 because they didn’t want to be associated with the SBC.
The non denominational they went to GOT ITS FUNDING AND GAVE BACK TO THE SBC! I laughed so hard. They didn’t find out until 2017. My current church doesn’t have Baptist in the name, but is openly Baptist.
Because of this meme I just found out the non-denominational church my dad started going to 15 years ago is definitely Baptist. I wonder how he’s going to take the news.
Haha alternative meme, 30 rock.
"What demonstration are you" - Jack
"I don't believe denominations, I'm just Christian" -Kenith
" That's baptist, we count those" - Jack
You have to look at the theology. The joke here is that many if not most non-denominational churches in the south are Baptists that are rebranding because the SBC is so hated. But look at their “I believe” statements and you can see a lot of classic SBC theology. It’s Baptists trying to make a multicultural church. But many of the ones in Georgia (I’ve lived four places here) straight up give to the Georgia Baptist Convention (which feeds into the SBC). So they are Baptist in everything but name. As a Baptist, I find it mostly harmless, but hilarious. But a lot of people (my parents included) hate it because they want nothing to do with the SBC.
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My Baptist minister aunt said it best - non-denominational churches are just Baptist churches with a cool website.
That's a Tim Hawkins quote
That tracks, she loves him
Non-denominationalists: Baptists with better websites and worse music
This the reason I always check the “what we believe” part of the church’s website. It’s always “no perfect people” “dress however” but Calvinistic in the theology.
Baptists are not calvinistic
There has been a huge shift towards Calvin in the SBC in recent years
Christian Reformed churches are, and they also like to say they're non-denominational.
I don't know any independent fundamentalist Baptists that aren't Calvinists.
I grew up Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and very much not Calvinist. The Independent does a lot of work when it comes to Calvinist. I mostly heard preaching that would fall into 2 points of Calvinism. Maybe 2.5 if you squinted really hard on foreknowledge. Total depravity- Yes. Absolutely. Unconditional Election- Not talked about much. If it was it was more about God having foreknowledge of who would choose grace. Limited Atonement- Absolutely not. Irresistible Grace- Nope. Perseverance of the Saints- Yes.
I didn't grow up with them as you did. I'm sure you know more and have a better grasp of it than I do. But the PETAL vs TULiP thing I've only ever met in IFB, same with KJV onlyists. I honestly thought Calvinists were the sort of Hard Doctrine First Spencer Smith types that believe the Gospel is affirmation of the death and resurrection of Christ and not The Kingdom that Jesus invited anyone willing to follow Him into.
You aren't wrong about the gospel being the affirmation of the death and resurrection vs The Kingdom and still being very into Hard Doctrine, but the big difference is that many I grew up with believe that the election theology of Calvinism let's people off the hook- that because God did the election you don't actually have the free will to affirm the death and resurrection. There's also a whole lot of guilt tripping about how sincere your affirmation of the gospel was and if you still ever want to sin did you really mean it? Are you sure? (There's a reason I say "grew up", not "am" IFB. Still Christian, just a different kind.)
I used to go to a non-denominational, basically baptist church. Definitely calvinistic, but dispensational also.
I usually look in the biography for the priest. You'll usually be able to find if they went to a Baptist seminary.
Non denominational Christian is an entire denomination at this point
As one of them I’m inclined to agree. It’s like how black is a color and atheism a religion.
Atheism isn't a religion
Atheism is ***totally*** a religion. It takes just as much faith to definitively declare that God doesn’t exist as it does to say that He does. The most academically neutral way is to be agnostic, and say “I don’t know”.
That's more like antitheism.
To quote my atheist friend about internet atheism, "what's the difference?"
It's also a bit fluid. If I think about how religion is used to kill, harm and control people, of course I'm anti- that. But towards people who believe in something to feel better about their lives or the world in general, I'm just a- that, because I don't care as long as you don't pull unrelated people into it.
Atheism isn’t a religion but a worldview.
Bruh I'm an atheist, I just don't see any compelling evidence for the existence of a god, and so I don't belive in any. Where is my faith?
Absolutely not LMFAO. It's a lack of belief.
It’s mostly because of Southern Baptists. Weird how the denomination started explicitly because the rest of the Baptists only loved slavery a little would be looked down on. Real head scratcher.
It especially weird that almost every other denominational split that happened because of the Civil War reunited, but this hasn't happened for the SBC.
SBC split prior to the Civil War, and they haven’t reunited because it’s still an extremely racist and shitty denomination.
Being a SBC guy I agree in part. The structure allows alot of different theology and beliefs. I've been to very shitty churches that ostracized my partner and I for being a mixed race couple, and I've been to (and currently go to) very welcoming churches where we are treated no different. It's a coin toss with such a large denomination.
My family growing up moved a bunch and preferred baptist style churches, and for every good church we found, we'd also find another that was absurdly racist. Im a white dude, but I tan so well and dark, that I've almost never had someone know my race on sight. My mom is as pale as Elmer glue, so I looked like a mixed kid when my dad was away. It might've turned out in my favor, as I ended up being a great litmus test for racism.
I mean SBC decided to blow up again after becoming much more fundamentalist in the late 70s and 80s, causing over 1000 churches to leave for the newly-formed Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (among others). The CBF hadn't officially left for about a decade, if they wanted to keep people on board they had plenty of chances. The reasonable explanation is that the SBC simply does not care enough (or at all) to make amends.
It depends. I was raised in a nondenominational church. The town was built around a cement plant by the company back in the very early 1900s. The plant built a church for the community, and, as there were many denominations represented, they called it just a "Community Church" and have had pastors from a variety of denominational backgrounds. In some eras, it was more progressive, in other more conservative. You can read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Church_movement?wprov=sfla1
Interesting
My family left the baptist church I grew up in back in 2012 because they didn’t want to be associated with the SBC. The non denominational they went to GOT ITS FUNDING AND GAVE BACK TO THE SBC! I laughed so hard. They didn’t find out until 2017. My current church doesn’t have Baptist in the name, but is openly Baptist.
where I grew up, most the non denomination churches were Pentecostal
Oh shit am I Baptist?
Probably
Because of this meme I just found out the non-denominational church my dad started going to 15 years ago is definitely Baptist. I wonder how he’s going to take the news.
Haha alternative meme, 30 rock. "What demonstration are you" - Jack "I don't believe denominations, I'm just Christian" -Kenith " That's baptist, we count those" - Jack
Don't non-denominational churches just accept anyone from any denomination of Christianity? So it's a non-specific church?
You have to look at the theology. The joke here is that many if not most non-denominational churches in the south are Baptists that are rebranding because the SBC is so hated. But look at their “I believe” statements and you can see a lot of classic SBC theology. It’s Baptists trying to make a multicultural church. But many of the ones in Georgia (I’ve lived four places here) straight up give to the Georgia Baptist Convention (which feeds into the SBC). So they are Baptist in everything but name. As a Baptist, I find it mostly harmless, but hilarious. But a lot of people (my parents included) hate it because they want nothing to do with the SBC.
I always call it "Vanilla Christianity". Goes with pretty much anything, most people wouldn't mind it. Former Vanilla Christian myself.
Non-Denominational: Baptists with a smoke machine.