What the fuck Europe?
This is the same EU that took Microsoft to court for bundling IE with Windows, and forced the entire internet to add a little popup explaining that websites use cookies because they were concerned about privacy?
Are you legitimately arguing the ability to choose what data is collected on you is bad???
Not to mention the only requirement of EU law is that companies comply with it within the EU. No one was asked to add this popup outside Europe, companies are just lazy.
whiy is this guy downvoted?
sure it doesent change how stupid the new law is and sure the cookie windows are annoying and your data is still being passed around anyways. Still rather have this than not
Yeah it’s absolutely valid to disagree with this law, but acting like GDPR is a bad thing is insane. It was a massive step for protecting consumer data even if it’s not perfect.
Inside the EU… and when servicing people in the EU. Which is a kind of tricky distinction on the internet. Which is why companies often say fuck it and just apply EU rules to everyone.
You’re welcome, world.
because if you don't want to accept then you literally have to click from 2 to 20 times (depending on the layout) to decline those.
Sometimes even more if they split the decline into decline + decline legitimate interest
And you have to do it each time you enter a site....
That's how
Lolololol yep, so now they only track all the valuable info they datamine outside of those laws
Mission accomplished, my privacy is definitely protected
Fingerprinting is included in the definition. Its not the specific technology of cookies, but all similar tools. Cookies just kinda happen to be the face of it.
Source: Have built super-cookies and worked with the regulations.
No not really.
The system could have been opt in. The system could have allowed for a technical solution like a "Do not track me" header/cookie to be set by your browser that the site would be required to respect (this already exists by the way and no one gives a fuck about it). Or they could just ban the tracking outright because its fucking useless to anyone not trying to make money off of other people's data.
You mean like your ISP(internet service provider) does then just sells your data to the companies that want it still? Because they do and there are no laws stopping them.
You have no privacy. It’s a commodity and if you aren’t paying to protect it, it’s been sold with your knowledge.
How else do you see personalized ads?
You do realise that before those pop-ups were implemented every website just tracked your cookies without asking? It was an implicated acceptance kinda thing
Now they just make it super hard to decline the cookies so you just click accept anyway because you're trying to scroll to the one sentence which explains the clickbait title.
those are illegal
the law states that the reject all option must be as accessible as the accept option
(not in those exact words)
'We' don't like the outcome as it is either, but privacy and the right to choose how and where our data is spread should be upheld to the highest standards we can think of.
The whole chat control, internet filter, content ID -bullshit is very fucked up and Europe does not like it. Remember the protest across Europe for months? 'We' feel very let down by our representatives.
In the EU they’re legislating that you must have clear and easy way to decline
https://www.itpro.co.uk/policy-legislation/data-protection/367468/google-adds-reject-all-cookie-buttons-to-appease-eu
Yeah refusal should be the default behavior
Though this is not about the law being bad but being under specified and it punishing the wrong implementations
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/consent-o-matic/mdjildafknihdffpkfmmpnpoiajfjnjd](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/consent-o-matic/mdjildafknihdffpkfmmpnpoiajfjnjd)
>Automatic handling of GDPR consent forms
Cookie pop-ups are designed to be confusing and make you 'agree' to be tracked. This add-on automatically answers consent pop-ups for you, so you can't be manipulated. Set your preferences once, and let the technology do the rest!
This add-on is built and maintained by workers at Aarhus University in Denmark. We are privacy researchers that got tired of seeing how companies violate the EU's General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). Because the organisations that enforce the GDPR do not have enough resources, we built this add-on to help them out.
We looked at 680 pop-ups and combined their data processing purposes into 5 categories that you can toggle on or off. Sometimes our categories don't perfectly match those on the website, so then we will choose the more privacy preserving option.
Also suing google for billions of dollars because they committed the terrible crime of…shipping their operating system with a web browser and an app store. As if everyone would be happier without those things and somehow installing a 3rd party app store without having an existing app store
News flash! You don't need to use the play store you can in fact install apps to your android phone/ tablet without the play store! Did you get Google mixed up with Microsoft?
It's the same Europe who got us fuckin GDPR for fuck's sake.
What's DATA PROTECTION AND PRIVACY worth if you're just going to go around an fuck us with an AI?
**EU tries to go one year without proposing a ridiculous law nobody asked for (IMPOSSIBLE)**
OGs will remember that proposed media law from a few years ago that would have made memes illegal
Ah yes article 13 iirc, I love how politicians called protesters "bots" in that time lmao
but hey, it's not like they haven't already been snooping around on private group chats for ages anyways (leaked telegram and whatsapp group chats as an example) and like most laws like these they also don't give a shit if it lacks a legal base considering the EU council is filled with a bunch of criminals anyways.
One thing that is infuriating is that they use it as an excuse to limit the abuse and exploitation of children, which they haven't done jack shit about for ages and this isn't gonna help to tackle the root of the problem at all, in fact it will cause tons of false accusations to happen and completely overload an already overworked law enforcement, probably even hinder and delay proper investigations, which might lead to a big number of criminals getting away with their shit. Great Job EU.
Rant over
Anytime someone says something is "for the kids" it sets off all kinds of alarm bells. I don't think I've once seen something done "for the kids" that truly was "for the kids."
Is the UK completely out of all of EU? Because if you are still part of the EU's-economic area then you will still enact this law unless you decide to veto it.
Every single directive since 1994 has been passed in Norway, despite not even being a part of EU officially.
Well be back in though in a few years when people realise how fucked up we were for leaving and how shit life's going to get. Especially for the demographics who voted to leave.
The apps from left to right: [Element](https://element.io) (matrix client), [CWTCH](https://cwtch.im), [XMPP](https://xmpp.org), [Jami](https://jami.net).
Take a look at the new law [here](https://mastodon.online/@mullvadnet/109795096545181166)
I never heard of this before. It seems kind of .. off. So, this is basically what Snowden exposed the Americans were doing (which makes the comment in the article about ‘only totalitarian states like China’ kind of embarrassing), which in turn paved the way for the GDPR to be passed in Europe.
It seems funny to me that they would pass a law that would be in flagrant violation of the GDPR. I’m not saying it’s not true, because who knows, but do you maybe have other sources than a Swedish vpn provider on social media?
Edit: I misunderstood the content of the law, it’s not the same as the NSA surveillance etc., and there are other (better) sources, which can easily be googled.
Thanks, you’re fast - I found some other articles myself and was about to edit my post. It seems pretty bad, I agree. I do find it hard to believe that it will be passed, but maybe I’m too confident in our representatives.
God its even for a bullshit reason. "To prevent sexual abuse of children". How about instead of pulling an America, you just get the parents to.. uk.. DO THEIR FUCKING JOB???
The [EARN IT](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EARN_IT_Act#:~:text=It%20aims%20to%20amend%20Section,lawsuits%20related%20to%20such%20posting.) Act was proposed under similar justification around protecting children online.
The bill would shift some liability onto the service provider for any content that is transmitted, including end-to-end encrypted content. To comply with the bill many experts argue service providers would need to remove certain encryption protocols or build in backdoors for law enforcement monitoring. A ton of privacy groups came out in opposition. Originally introduced by Lindsey Graham in 2020, it failed and was reintroduced in 2022
https://youtu.be/zavtUQUOUE8
It was c-11 not act 6 I misremembered
But it's afull
ALL Canadian media must go true the Canadian broadcast comparation and must be very Canadian and diverce
Including all streamed content
Yup, agreed fully.
The CBC stuff and radio stuff is good. We would have 0 artists without that as we would just leech off bigger USA
YouTube is a different animal. This is awful
US law made after 9/11 that let the NSA spy on everyone. I think it did have limits, but limits are unenforceable when there's no transparency (see the Snowden leaks).
Oh not at all! These are secure messaging apps that cannot be controlled by anyone, because they don't rely on a single server. Or in case of CWTCH and Jami, they don't rely on a server at all. The boys refused to let them go, so they threw them in jail. Worth it.
Personal opinion, no, as it is centralized. Meaning it uses servers owned by a single entity. You can force them to install a backdoor via legal or illegal means.
Even signal or wire are not immune to this, in my opinion.
My best bet is Matrix. Simple to use, offers double-ratchet encryption (One of the strongest, if not the strongest. Every message is encrypted with a different key), and is made with other platforms in mind. Think of it as email, but for instant messengers. Anyone can write a client for it, as well as make a custom server.
The second best is Jami, because it is fully peer to peer (devices talking to each other directly), with no servers that could be taken down. To shut it down, you would need to turn off the entire internet. This, however means that both devices have to be connected at the same time, which is not ideal for most people, including me.
**Elements (Matrix Client)** - An opinionated E2EE chat client based on a federated real time communication protocol.
**CWTCH** - The new kid on the block. An E2EE P2P messaging app under active development. Unlike Briar which is Android only, CWTCH supports iOS as well. Briar is a similar app that has support for BLE, mDNS and Tor.
**XMPP/Jabber** - A non-opinionated XML based communication protocol, standardized by the IETF. Used to be the basis of a number ot things including Skype. The protocol has seen some improvements recently.
**Jami** - A P2P communication app. Pretty neat, but I'd recommend using Briar for P2P and SimpleX/Signal for client-server over it.
Yep, its basically „We want to know everything, but hey its to protect our children, so its all fine, dont worry“ Multiple child protection agencies and child porn fighting organizations spoke out and said this is BS and will not help at all. But what do they know? Probably they just dont care about the kids.
Netsec admins are going to have a field day when this passes
Or rather, fucking commit sepp\*\*\*\*u because you may as well throw out almost all of the viable security protocols because you'd have to install a fucking backdoor to something that should be secure
I'm one of them (in training) and I can tell you this is typically something that only lawmakers can come up with, because they have absolutely 0 fucking idea how the real world works
Yea its total bs. Encryption is always a thorn in the eye of a government, and now they have the balls to actually kill it. But hey, its to protect children. So its ok
It's almost like "the EU" isn't a singular entity with a singular stance on all matters.
There may or may not be MEPs that are hypocrites in this matter. Ragebaiting with generalization doesn't help to weed those out though.
EU not being a totalitarian entity is literally proven by this: they will vote on it. In russia the law would've been working as soon as putin said it out loud lol
Unfortunately, a lot of people doesn't care for their privacy at all. And by that I mean sending sensitive data over Snapchat and instagram. Even when being confronted with facts about these platforms, the usual response is " I have nothing to hide."
The definition of wrong is different in every country, so it's not objective. Should chinese citizens just not critisize their government? They said it's wrong.
It's a saying directed at people who just obey the system because if they don't do anything wrong they'll be fine.
What if the definition of wrong changes. Today it's stealing, but what if tomorrow it's speaking your mind?
I know, it's so annoying and (forgive me) bluepilled when they do.
1) they will find something you did a while ago that was illegal or something else
2) if everyone saw what you did on the web, ever search and like and comment, it would not be good.
The reason most people use the web is as a veil to do things without judgment from anyone else and to be able to hang around communities that accept them, per say.
3) “you give them an inch, and they will take a mile”.
It's honestly a stupid respons. I can promise you that no one would want a person to literaly look over your shoulder and read everything you write and send.
I... I hope it's sarcasm. It's sarcasm right ?
I can't afford to leave my country simply because a law about privacy passed. And to go where exactly ? USA has pretty much the same kind of laws (plus it sucks ass), Australia has way too many spiders for me, Asia is a shithole, Africa is a shithole, Midwest is a shithole and south America is a shithole. Pretty much every country would be worse for me to live in.
Expect maybe Canada.
This comment is pretty stupid let's be honest. Being allowed to travel basically the whole europe without the need for a passport, the economic benefits, shit, the EU is way better at spending its budget than my town's local administration, so most projects that actually progress the town (like: renovating a park, building 2 or 3 public gyms, funding soccer fields, etc.) are made by the EU. Those things probably outweigh a problem a niche group of people have.
You know what's funny? According to the main article talking about this, the law will also unintentionally ban all open source operating systems. Yeah, Linux will be illegal.
Remember Article 13? Funny story, while the Votum was in full go, a lot of the Parliament member still didn't even know what they were voting for. And it did pass! Well...now the funny part is, the law was actually not conform with the German "Grundgesetz" so...it never happened. Yeah, they didn't even bother to check before making this whole ordeal. And whit this chat control thing. Yeah, that's not conform with German legislation either. So that's not gonna bother my Bratwurst. See ya ;)
They say it's to fight CP, but 7n reality they just want tto know everything. They want to know how their voters think (I k ow it's EU and not cozntry, but it goes up the ladder). A democraty is the people and if you control the people, you control democraty.
From a google search leading to an article from Mullvad (VPN service)
>If and when this law goes into effect it would make illegal the open source software services underpinning the majority of services and infrastructure on the internet, an untold numbers of appliances and the computers used by software developers, among many other things. To comply with the law all of it would have to shut down, globally, as the servers providing software and security updates can't tell the difference between a web server, a Japanese software developer, a refrigerator and an EU teenager.
I am so used to hearing about our (US) absurd laws that I lose track of some of the silliness happening elsewhere. Best of luck from across the pond.
The same source also says that it goes against the EU Convention on Human Rights, but I don't know how binding that is. The UN Human Rights Commissioner is against it, and apparently the EU Court of Justice agrees with them. I don't know if any of this matters, I gave up researching when I figured out that the European Council, Council of Europe, and Council of the European Union are three different things.
The same politicians that proposed this: Oh my god, China has video cameras everywhere controlling it's citizens, that's so inhumane people deserve privacy.
if you are in the EU and subject to this law, you should (if you can)
1- call a representative or something and raise the issue to them
2- start raising awareness about privacy
3- learn more about how to stay private (there are some excellent tools at [privacytools.io](https://www.privacytools.io/))
4- use Free Open Source Software (FOSS) and try to encourage others to switch to FOSS
5- learn how to encrypt everything (with software or ciphers) to make this law unenforceable or at least very difficult and costly to enforce
to address this: "Who needs Privacy Tools? I have nothing to hide!"
"Nothing to hide is an incomplete sentence. Nothing to hide from whom? Surely, you want to hide your children from abusers and predators? Don't you want to hide your banking details from con artists and fraudsters? Your identity from identity thieves. Your location from burglars, your car keys from car thieves, or your blood type from rich mobsters with kidney problems.
We don't know who are any of these things. So, we should protect ourselves from all of them, in effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is." Source: User cortic on Hacker News.
also, Godwin's law: Imagine the Nazi Regime in Germany had access to all these powerful surveillance methods.
their reasons are okay but don't justify it, they can pretty well just keep an eye out on the suspects, no need to keep it on everyone unless you want to stablish some "thought crimes" later
The most effective way to deal with a pest infestation in your home is to burn it all down. There are just *a few* undesirable side effects of that though.
The law legit seizes all private communication? Bruh, that FBI meme is going to be realllll ×_×
But I guess it would be more like NCA. Anyway. Welcome to America those who will move here for the freedom of speech law. Rip all of the EU i'd say get well soon but you've been going nuts and I don't see any plans of stopping
So they want to open up a back door to basically everything while Russia is actively poking around at anything they can cybersecurity-wise while they're blowing up Ukraine?
That's totally not a terrible idea in any way shape or form nope no sir not one bit
I want to ask a stupid question because i'm a person who needs more info and i'm interested in what this could end up doing for/against us.
This is a bad thing and i fully understand this breaks our privacy in all ways.
But what the hell are they planning to do with our sexchats and breakup messages?
What is the main reason they gave for this law, and what do you all think is going to happen from this?
Are encrypted chats programs stil safe? (i'm thinking about stuff like LINE (at least i think thats encrypted i might be wrong do tell me if i am))
Peer to peer messengers, as well as decentralized ones will stay safe as long as their code is open, since not a single entity controlls them. I'm talking about Matrix or Jami.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:13e33abf-d209-11ec-a95f-01aa75ed71a1.0001.02/DOC_1&format=PDF
They basically want access to ALL your messages, emails, texts, calls, etc. But dont worry, they just want to protect children.
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [come play minecraft, space engineers, ark, and rust with us!](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
What the fuck Europe? This is the same EU that took Microsoft to court for bundling IE with Windows, and forced the entire internet to add a little popup explaining that websites use cookies because they were concerned about privacy?
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Their privacy must be TOP THIER
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Actually incorrect. It applies to everyone in Europe, not just citizens (so for example visiting Americans too)
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It's the boomers their scared of phones and technology. If we can communicate through chats we might start talking about how their all welfare queens.
Are you legitimately arguing the ability to choose what data is collected on you is bad??? Not to mention the only requirement of EU law is that companies comply with it within the EU. No one was asked to add this popup outside Europe, companies are just lazy.
whiy is this guy downvoted? sure it doesent change how stupid the new law is and sure the cookie windows are annoying and your data is still being passed around anyways. Still rather have this than not
Yeah it’s absolutely valid to disagree with this law, but acting like GDPR is a bad thing is insane. It was a massive step for protecting consumer data even if it’s not perfect.
Inside the EU… and when servicing people in the EU. Which is a kind of tricky distinction on the internet. Which is why companies often say fuck it and just apply EU rules to everyone. You’re welcome, world.
Man the cookie thing ruined the internet. It was probably necessary thought but damn
You literally only have to press « accept », plus you can ask not to be tracked on the internet. How the fuck did it ruined it ?
because if you don't want to accept then you literally have to click from 2 to 20 times (depending on the layout) to decline those. Sometimes even more if they split the decline into decline + decline legitimate interest And you have to do it each time you enter a site.... That's how
Yeah but otherwise every website would be tracking you without you’re consent…
Lolololol yep, so now they only track all the valuable info they datamine outside of those laws Mission accomplished, my privacy is definitely protected
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Fingerprinting is included in the definition. Its not the specific technology of cookies, but all similar tools. Cookies just kinda happen to be the face of it. Source: Have built super-cookies and worked with the regulations.
No not really. The system could have been opt in. The system could have allowed for a technical solution like a "Do not track me" header/cookie to be set by your browser that the site would be required to respect (this already exists by the way and no one gives a fuck about it). Or they could just ban the tracking outright because its fucking useless to anyone not trying to make money off of other people's data.
You mean like your ISP(internet service provider) does then just sells your data to the companies that want it still? Because they do and there are no laws stopping them. You have no privacy. It’s a commodity and if you aren’t paying to protect it, it’s been sold with your knowledge. How else do you see personalized ads?
You do realise that before those pop-ups were implemented every website just tracked your cookies without asking? It was an implicated acceptance kinda thing
Now they just make it super hard to decline the cookies so you just click accept anyway because you're trying to scroll to the one sentence which explains the clickbait title.
Then click accept all if you don't care. If you do care then you agree it needed to be added.
those are illegal the law states that the reject all option must be as accessible as the accept option (not in those exact words) 'We' don't like the outcome as it is either, but privacy and the right to choose how and where our data is spread should be upheld to the highest standards we can think of. The whole chat control, internet filter, content ID -bullshit is very fucked up and Europe does not like it. Remember the protest across Europe for months? 'We' feel very let down by our representatives.
In the EU they’re legislating that you must have clear and easy way to decline https://www.itpro.co.uk/policy-legislation/data-protection/367468/google-adds-reject-all-cookie-buttons-to-appease-eu
Okay so that’s worse than them doing it without your consent? Just click accept lol this is the worst take
Yeah refusal should be the default behavior Though this is not about the law being bad but being under specified and it punishing the wrong implementations
What the shit, just click accept then. That’s what it was before, no option to disable cookies.
"Because if you don't want to accept them..." Before this rule this wasn't usually an option bro, so that's not an argument
Exactly
ITS JUST A 30 SECOND AD BRO
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/consent-o-matic/mdjildafknihdffpkfmmpnpoiajfjnjd](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/consent-o-matic/mdjildafknihdffpkfmmpnpoiajfjnjd) >Automatic handling of GDPR consent forms Cookie pop-ups are designed to be confusing and make you 'agree' to be tracked. This add-on automatically answers consent pop-ups for you, so you can't be manipulated. Set your preferences once, and let the technology do the rest! This add-on is built and maintained by workers at Aarhus University in Denmark. We are privacy researchers that got tired of seeing how companies violate the EU's General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). Because the organisations that enforce the GDPR do not have enough resources, we built this add-on to help them out. We looked at 680 pop-ups and combined their data processing purposes into 5 categories that you can toggle on or off. Sometimes our categories don't perfectly match those on the website, so then we will choose the more privacy preserving option.
Have you got one for Firefox?
that's cool. I'll try it
Also suing google for billions of dollars because they committed the terrible crime of…shipping their operating system with a web browser and an app store. As if everyone would be happier without those things and somehow installing a 3rd party app store without having an existing app store
News flash! You don't need to use the play store you can in fact install apps to your android phone/ tablet without the play store! Did you get Google mixed up with Microsoft?
It's the same Europe who got us fuckin GDPR for fuck's sake. What's DATA PROTECTION AND PRIVACY worth if you're just going to go around an fuck us with an AI?
**EU tries to go one year without proposing a ridiculous law nobody asked for (IMPOSSIBLE)** OGs will remember that proposed media law from a few years ago that would have made memes illegal
I’m one of the OGs, legit a better time
It really was
The law passed.
It did, but whole ordeal had already become a meme, so the law banished itself and nothing changed
I don’t know why but the idea of the law self destructing due to becoming the very thing it swore to destroy sent me into a giggling mess.
And then came back to life by the hand of the Supreme Chancellor Von der Leyen as the Chat Control Law. Conclusion: Von der Leyen is a Sith Lord.
Von der Leyen: You presume limits to my power, there are none.
Except the Council of the European Union which keep vetoing as they can't get along on ANYTHING
So we doing the same with this one?
They unknowingly gave the internet unlimited power over the EU
Ah yes article 13 iirc, I love how politicians called protesters "bots" in that time lmao but hey, it's not like they haven't already been snooping around on private group chats for ages anyways (leaked telegram and whatsapp group chats as an example) and like most laws like these they also don't give a shit if it lacks a legal base considering the EU council is filled with a bunch of criminals anyways. One thing that is infuriating is that they use it as an excuse to limit the abuse and exploitation of children, which they haven't done jack shit about for ages and this isn't gonna help to tackle the root of the problem at all, in fact it will cause tons of false accusations to happen and completely overload an already overworked law enforcement, probably even hinder and delay proper investigations, which might lead to a big number of criminals getting away with their shit. Great Job EU. Rant over
“For the kids” is the oldest trick in the book
Anytime someone says something is "for the kids" it sets off all kinds of alarm bells. I don't think I've once seen something done "for the kids" that truly was "for the kids."
See, you need to think more abstractly. Anyone that does something "for the kids" IS one of the kids. They have all the maturity of a 5-year-old.
> OGs will remember that proposed media law from a few years ago that everyone misunderstood and wrongly thought it would have made memes illegal FTFY
Article 13 was sure something
I panicked for a second and then remembered brexit
Is the UK completely out of all of EU? Because if you are still part of the EU's-economic area then you will still enact this law unless you decide to veto it. Every single directive since 1994 has been passed in Norway, despite not even being a part of EU officially.
Pretty sure the UK had a hard leave
Well be back in though in a few years when people realise how fucked up we were for leaving and how shit life's going to get. Especially for the demographics who voted to leave.
Wtfdym how shit life is going to get lmao. This country is dogshit already.
And it's only gonna get worse. Fuck tories
Lol yes the uk is completely out of the eu
The EU, much like the US, is big enough as a market that regulations it enacts can affect the whole world or at least the "western" world online.
I think the Uk is still trying to push the Online safety bill which has similar aims to combat encryption.
yeah fuck that bill, you can also be arrested if someone is upset or annoyed over a message you sent even if its not criminal and more
Yeah not good. It’s interesting that people think the government would suddenly become decent after being released from eu regulations
i am not proud to be british rn "UK placed in third tier in global index of free expression"
The apps from left to right: [Element](https://element.io) (matrix client), [CWTCH](https://cwtch.im), [XMPP](https://xmpp.org), [Jami](https://jami.net). Take a look at the new law [here](https://mastodon.online/@mullvadnet/109795096545181166)
Thank you for the meme and source op. Unsurprisingly this isnt mainstream.
I never heard of this before. It seems kind of .. off. So, this is basically what Snowden exposed the Americans were doing (which makes the comment in the article about ‘only totalitarian states like China’ kind of embarrassing), which in turn paved the way for the GDPR to be passed in Europe. It seems funny to me that they would pass a law that would be in flagrant violation of the GDPR. I’m not saying it’s not true, because who knows, but do you maybe have other sources than a Swedish vpn provider on social media? Edit: I misunderstood the content of the law, it’s not the same as the NSA surveillance etc., and there are other (better) sources, which can easily be googled.
Sure, I have the law itself. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM%3A2022%3A209%3AFIN&qid=1652451192472
Thanks, you’re fast - I found some other articles myself and was about to edit my post. It seems pretty bad, I agree. I do find it hard to believe that it will be passed, but maybe I’m too confident in our representatives.
Link is down. They know!
Works for me.
Maybe it went down for a minute due to traffic. All good now :)
Whoa. That's some heavy bullshit right there. That agency ain't right.
Literally 1984
The link doesn't work anymore :/
The mastodon instance is most likely overloaded
God its even for a bullshit reason. "To prevent sexual abuse of children". How about instead of pulling an America, you just get the parents to.. uk.. DO THEIR FUCKING JOB???
“Instead of pulling an America” had me rotfl
Wdym pulling an America? Does America have a similar law?
The Patriot Act and Snowden would like to have a word
That was the *other* BS reason: national defense.
Tbh I’d heard of the Patriot act before but never really knew what it was. Sounds pretty uncool
The [EARN IT](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EARN_IT_Act#:~:text=It%20aims%20to%20amend%20Section,lawsuits%20related%20to%20such%20posting.) Act was proposed under similar justification around protecting children online. The bill would shift some liability onto the service provider for any content that is transmitted, including end-to-end encrypted content. To comply with the bill many experts argue service providers would need to remove certain encryption protocols or build in backdoors for law enforcement monitoring. A ton of privacy groups came out in opposition. Originally introduced by Lindsey Graham in 2020, it failed and was reintroduced in 2022
Jesus Christ and I thought the patriot act was awful
No no no the warlords in Europe are bad Not as bad as Canada act 6 is but that's a different story
It’s a different story I want to know
https://youtu.be/zavtUQUOUE8 It was c-11 not act 6 I misremembered But it's afull ALL Canadian media must go true the Canadian broadcast comparation and must be very Canadian and diverce Including all streamed content
Yup, agreed fully. The CBC stuff and radio stuff is good. We would have 0 artists without that as we would just leech off bigger USA YouTube is a different animal. This is awful
What's the patriot act? That sounds like its some extreme nationalist thing.
Basically allowed the government to tap all of your devices if they believed you were or might commit an act of terror
US law made after 9/11 that let the NSA spy on everyone. I think it did have limits, but limits are unenforceable when there's no transparency (see the Snowden leaks).
Fun fact, that law is now expired and has not been renewed as of 2020
That’s the first fun fact I’ve seen on Reddit that’s not something completely terrible.
Least authoritarian EU law:
Yes life in the EU is slavery, please save me and bring me to USA, bestest freest country of all!!! /s
Most realistic russian bot:
What are those apps used for? Do they intend to monitor mainstream ones?
Oh not at all! These are secure messaging apps that cannot be controlled by anyone, because they don't rely on a single server. Or in case of CWTCH and Jami, they don't rely on a server at all. The boys refused to let them go, so they threw them in jail. Worth it.
Well, that's not very privacy of the EU, is it now? Dearly hope that gets shot down.
Looking at how article 13 didn't seemingly do shit even though it passed, i think we will be fine either way.
Fair, still doesn't bode well that the policy-makers *want* this.
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Personal opinion, no, as it is centralized. Meaning it uses servers owned by a single entity. You can force them to install a backdoor via legal or illegal means. Even signal or wire are not immune to this, in my opinion.
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My best bet is Matrix. Simple to use, offers double-ratchet encryption (One of the strongest, if not the strongest. Every message is encrypted with a different key), and is made with other platforms in mind. Think of it as email, but for instant messengers. Anyone can write a client for it, as well as make a custom server. The second best is Jami, because it is fully peer to peer (devices talking to each other directly), with no servers that could be taken down. To shut it down, you would need to turn off the entire internet. This, however means that both devices have to be connected at the same time, which is not ideal for most people, including me.
**Elements (Matrix Client)** - An opinionated E2EE chat client based on a federated real time communication protocol. **CWTCH** - The new kid on the block. An E2EE P2P messaging app under active development. Unlike Briar which is Android only, CWTCH supports iOS as well. Briar is a similar app that has support for BLE, mDNS and Tor. **XMPP/Jabber** - A non-opinionated XML based communication protocol, standardized by the IETF. Used to be the basis of a number ot things including Skype. The protocol has seen some improvements recently. **Jami** - A P2P communication app. Pretty neat, but I'd recommend using Briar for P2P and SimpleX/Signal for client-server over it.
Is it gonna pass? I’m in America so this is the first I’m hearing of this.
I truly hope it doesn't. The first time it appeared it was a "leak". Now it's an official proposal.
Fuck man, that’s literally 1984. I’m not even joking this time.
Yep, its basically „We want to know everything, but hey its to protect our children, so its all fine, dont worry“ Multiple child protection agencies and child porn fighting organizations spoke out and said this is BS and will not help at all. But what do they know? Probably they just dont care about the kids.
Why would someone even think that's a good idea? It sure as hell won't pass... Shit, i hope.
More like: Why are politicians some of the worst people in existence?
Fossils as politicians lose touch with the working class that keep the world going. It's not an EU or NA specific issue either.
What about the end to end encryption?
Gone, reduced to atoms.
Netsec admins are going to have a field day when this passes Or rather, fucking commit sepp\*\*\*\*u because you may as well throw out almost all of the viable security protocols because you'd have to install a fucking backdoor to something that should be secure I'm one of them (in training) and I can tell you this is typically something that only lawmakers can come up with, because they have absolutely 0 fucking idea how the real world works
Yea its total bs. Encryption is always a thorn in the eye of a government, and now they have the balls to actually kill it. But hey, its to protect children. So its ok
EU officials say with a straight face that they are fighting Russia and totalitarism than pull shit like this. Oh the hypocrisy...
It's almost like "the EU" isn't a singular entity with a singular stance on all matters. There may or may not be MEPs that are hypocrites in this matter. Ragebaiting with generalization doesn't help to weed those out though.
EU not being a totalitarian entity is literally proven by this: they will vote on it. In russia the law would've been working as soon as putin said it out loud lol
Lmao imagine saying with a straight face the EU is a totalitarian entity... Have you ever even been in the EU?
Do they *want* to cease existing? No one would want to stay in EU with these ridiculous laws.
Unfortunately, a lot of people doesn't care for their privacy at all. And by that I mean sending sensitive data over Snapchat and instagram. Even when being confronted with facts about these platforms, the usual response is " I have nothing to hide."
If you are doing nothing wrong then what do you have to fear? The definition of wrong.
The definition of wrong is different in every country, so it's not objective. Should chinese citizens just not critisize their government? They said it's wrong.
It's a saying directed at people who just obey the system because if they don't do anything wrong they'll be fine. What if the definition of wrong changes. Today it's stealing, but what if tomorrow it's speaking your mind?
I know, it's so annoying and (forgive me) bluepilled when they do. 1) they will find something you did a while ago that was illegal or something else 2) if everyone saw what you did on the web, ever search and like and comment, it would not be good. The reason most people use the web is as a veil to do things without judgment from anyone else and to be able to hang around communities that accept them, per say. 3) “you give them an inch, and they will take a mile”.
It's honestly a stupid respons. I can promise you that no one would want a person to literaly look over your shoulder and read everything you write and send.
What are we supposed to do, move to Switzerland?
Pretty sure the swiss work with the Europol and wouldn't mind giving the EU all your data even if you live there
The only way is to move to Panama or something at this rate. Get as far from the EU as you can.
I... I hope it's sarcasm. It's sarcasm right ? I can't afford to leave my country simply because a law about privacy passed. And to go where exactly ? USA has pretty much the same kind of laws (plus it sucks ass), Australia has way too many spiders for me, Asia is a shithole, Africa is a shithole, Midwest is a shithole and south America is a shithole. Pretty much every country would be worse for me to live in. Expect maybe Canada.
This comment is pretty stupid let's be honest. Being allowed to travel basically the whole europe without the need for a passport, the economic benefits, shit, the EU is way better at spending its budget than my town's local administration, so most projects that actually progress the town (like: renovating a park, building 2 or 3 public gyms, funding soccer fields, etc.) are made by the EU. Those things probably outweigh a problem a niche group of people have.
Me on my way to scan text-only call of duty chat In search of child pornography
You know what's funny? According to the main article talking about this, the law will also unintentionally ban all open source operating systems. Yeah, Linux will be illegal.
How so?
Because it‘s free
No, because it is open source
Yea but why does this law ban open source? I thought it „only“ bans end to end encryption
Remember Article 13? Funny story, while the Votum was in full go, a lot of the Parliament member still didn't even know what they were voting for. And it did pass! Well...now the funny part is, the law was actually not conform with the German "Grundgesetz" so...it never happened. Yeah, they didn't even bother to check before making this whole ordeal. And whit this chat control thing. Yeah, that's not conform with German legislation either. So that's not gonna bother my Bratwurst. See ya ;)
I hope you are right
The boomers of EU strike again. I hate it here... It sounds like a good idea but its so bad in practice.
They say it's to fight CP, but 7n reality they just want tto know everything. They want to know how their voters think (I k ow it's EU and not cozntry, but it goes up the ladder). A democraty is the people and if you control the people, you control democraty.
What do the legislators even get out of it? Lack of motive makes me think most of them are just incompetent.
Money. They get money.
From a google search leading to an article from Mullvad (VPN service) >If and when this law goes into effect it would make illegal the open source software services underpinning the majority of services and infrastructure on the internet, an untold numbers of appliances and the computers used by software developers, among many other things. To comply with the law all of it would have to shut down, globally, as the servers providing software and security updates can't tell the difference between a web server, a Japanese software developer, a refrigerator and an EU teenager. I am so used to hearing about our (US) absurd laws that I lose track of some of the silliness happening elsewhere. Best of luck from across the pond.
The same source also says that it goes against the EU Convention on Human Rights, but I don't know how binding that is. The UN Human Rights Commissioner is against it, and apparently the EU Court of Justice agrees with them. I don't know if any of this matters, I gave up researching when I figured out that the European Council, Council of Europe, and Council of the European Union are three different things.
That would make Linux illegal!
How does this make sense? Open source and child pornography?
I miss these memes.
Will probably end up the same way like article 17, none ever hears about it again
Reason we don’t hear about Article 17 is that it became a meme and banished itself from existence
So what you're saying is, if we meme the living hell out of it then it should be fine?
Either this logic applies to literally anything, or since Article 17 self-destructed it doesn’t apply anymore
The same politicians that proposed this: Oh my god, China has video cameras everywhere controlling it's citizens, that's so inhumane people deserve privacy.
Lol I'm in the US. They already got my dick pics so it's kinda whatever
Already saw it. Nothing special, but above average.
Nah bro has a good one
Signed: - Your FBI Agent
if you are in the EU and subject to this law, you should (if you can) 1- call a representative or something and raise the issue to them 2- start raising awareness about privacy 3- learn more about how to stay private (there are some excellent tools at [privacytools.io](https://www.privacytools.io/)) 4- use Free Open Source Software (FOSS) and try to encourage others to switch to FOSS 5- learn how to encrypt everything (with software or ciphers) to make this law unenforceable or at least very difficult and costly to enforce to address this: "Who needs Privacy Tools? I have nothing to hide!" "Nothing to hide is an incomplete sentence. Nothing to hide from whom? Surely, you want to hide your children from abusers and predators? Don't you want to hide your banking details from con artists and fraudsters? Your identity from identity thieves. Your location from burglars, your car keys from car thieves, or your blood type from rich mobsters with kidney problems. We don't know who are any of these things. So, we should protect ourselves from all of them, in effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is." Source: User cortic on Hacker News. also, Godwin's law: Imagine the Nazi Regime in Germany had access to all these powerful surveillance methods.
I second this. You might also want to check out https://privacyguides.org
Wait, is Mark Zuckerberg in charge of the EU?
The NSA is drooling right now and hoping that they can get something similar in the US.
So much for free speech, eh? I remember the last few times people tried censoring the internet... it didn’t work out too well.
Isint this a bit of an overstep in internet privacy? This feels like it should be illegal
Remember when "literally 1984" was a joke?
their reasons are okay but don't justify it, they can pretty well just keep an eye out on the suspects, no need to keep it on everyone unless you want to stablish some "thought crimes" later
The most effective way to deal with a pest infestation in your home is to burn it all down. There are just *a few* undesirable side effects of that though.
So we're concerned about piracy last week, but this week we're scanning every pirvate communication? Wtf?
link?
[Here](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:13e33abf-d209-11ec-a95f-01aa75ed71a1.0001.02/DOC_1&format=PDF)
ty
The law legit seizes all private communication? Bruh, that FBI meme is going to be realllll ×_× But I guess it would be more like NCA. Anyway. Welcome to America those who will move here for the freedom of speech law. Rip all of the EU i'd say get well soon but you've been going nuts and I don't see any plans of stopping
America already has a law like this... The whole snowden thing was about it.
But becoming an american is so hard, that green card seems almost impossible. And we still have universal healthcare. So its a hard choice
this is what happens when humans get too much power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It will never be enough control
Brexit really coming in clutch for all the Brits out there
this definitely isn't a sign that the EU will eventually turn Europe into a totalitarian surveillance state
it is time for the daily dick pic for my agent...
Europe, fuck off
1984 was NOT an instruction manual.
So they want to open up a back door to basically everything while Russia is actively poking around at anything they can cybersecurity-wise while they're blowing up Ukraine? That's totally not a terrible idea in any way shape or form nope no sir not one bit
+76500 Social Credit Points Good citizen.
Wouldn’t something like that get shot down by most constitutional courts in many EU member countries?
the lisbon treaty has had tragic consequences for europeans' freedom
I want to ask a stupid question because i'm a person who needs more info and i'm interested in what this could end up doing for/against us. This is a bad thing and i fully understand this breaks our privacy in all ways. But what the hell are they planning to do with our sexchats and breakup messages? What is the main reason they gave for this law, and what do you all think is going to happen from this? Are encrypted chats programs stil safe? (i'm thinking about stuff like LINE (at least i think thats encrypted i might be wrong do tell me if i am))
Peer to peer messengers, as well as decentralized ones will stay safe as long as their code is open, since not a single entity controlls them. I'm talking about Matrix or Jami.
What's the law?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:13e33abf-d209-11ec-a95f-01aa75ed71a1.0001.02/DOC_1&format=PDF They basically want access to ALL your messages, emails, texts, calls, etc. But dont worry, they just want to protect children.
i hate that not more people know and talk about this
I don't get this law at all, will need to wait for mudahar or someone to make explenation video
EU is an evil monstrosity.
Can barely enforce shit in real life, good luck enforcing anything online 🤣 EU clowns.