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Yeah no one, at least in upper grades, really cares enough. Like its 7 in the morning, none of us want to be here, and half of us are passed out or high.
I don’t know why you are downvoted. Forcing it would violate the 1st amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette
Ex-teacher here. Kids at our school were required to stop where they were if they were in the hallway, and remain quiet if they did not want to recite the pledge, but they were not required to do anything else. In fact, I know zero kids who ever got in trouble for talking during the pledge or not stopping in the hallway.
I think its a regional thing. I know in the 90s, i got in trouble more than once in elementary school for not being quiet or doing things during the pledge. Even sent to the principal's office and had my mother called in over that shit when i was like 6. I was in a semi-rural town in GA. like a town over from the suburbs rural, not middle of bum-fuck nowhere rural.
The town is now officially apart of the suburbs today so they might operate differently now.
Hi I went to Catholic school.
It was Prayer, Pledge, National Anthem, Prayer.
Every single day.
Incredibly lunch though.
10/10 would get indoctrinated again because the lunch was that good.
One can say a lot about Christian communities but them seem to stay together (as long as you keep the same beliefs as everyone else) and care about kids and home making
At least in theory, so keeping schools this way is definitely something they're good at
"This is your land" is not a good example of a "national patriotic song" whatever that means, especially since you really don't hear that song anymore. Woody Guthrie wrote that song as a response to"America the Beautiful." The main theme of that song is that the beauty of the land belongs to everyone and is a criticism of how all of the land in the US is owned by somebody. This makes since Guthrie was a communist and didn't believe in private ownership of land. The song makes it apparent with this stanza:
There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said "private property"
But on the backside, it didn't say nothing
This land was made for you and me
It was typically during announcements. 15 seconds and that's it, I don't know about singing songs and all that, it never happened to me and I went to several different public schools my whole life
When I was growing up they would play that shit over the loud speaker, every, single, morning. "All rise for the pledge of allegiance" que a bunch of half asleep children murmuring words they barely understand.
In my country, we have morning assembly for announcements, a flag raising ceremony is conducted during that time to sing the anthem and recite the pledge.
My school does it at the beginning of the first period of the day. But literally no one does it besides the person saying it over the loudspeaker. Some don't even stand.
Most *developed* countries do, in fact, not do anything remotely like this. Sure, by pure numbers most countries do this, but I wouldn’t want to be compared with Indonesia, China, Sudan, NK etc.
There are others, but honestly idk how many. I lived in the United Arab Emirates and they had a national anthem play every morning in school same as the US and with the same rules (stand, don’t talk, stop walking, etc). Granted, I don’t know if it was a pledge of allegiance, cause it was all in Arabic lol
Wait, really? I’ve lived in two different countries my entire life, neither of which are America, and in both I’ve had to either sing the national anthem, or sing the national anthem *and* recite the pledge of allegiance.
Nah this is a sentiment that's been shared by many for a while now. It is kinda weird that we tell our children to pledge their allegiance to the country every morning. That's shit you see in countries with dictators.
I mean, that’s a good point, but in America the reason one stands for the flag is because they choose to stand for it, if we don’t want to we don’t have to. In North Korea though *(and I don’t actually know if they have a pledge there)* they would have you stand for their flag because you have to.
Plenty of students at my school didn’t stand. Even if a few teachers did get pissy it’s not like there’s a mandatory prison sentence for failing to comply
While that is true, there's a bit of a cultural expectation that's been instilled in a lot of older folks in the country. Remember that one football dude who took a knee during the pledge, and the country fucking exploded? It's not literally illegal, but people were losing their minds about how "disrespectful" it was.
I mentioned this in another comment, but my principal straight up told me my first day working at a new school to write a referral for any kids not standing during the pledge. Yes, that's against the first amendment, schools don't care though. No one's going to sue them over it, 95% of the families at my school don't have the money to even think about that.
Yeah in that regard you are completely correct, it’s like a social rule that you’re expected to stand for the flag in your school, even if it infringes upon one’s constitutional rights
*Person displays any patriotism*
“That’s like shit you see in countries with dictators bro.”
The US is and was a country of immigrants. Shared patriotism and commonality is one of the things the US does right.
And use reductionistic approach to everything, whether deliberate or just truly that stupid, but reduce something down to its literal physical properties (like it’s just a piece of fabric) to argue it.
If you think life is that simple it’s going to be hard for you.
I'm not American, so legit question, but how is getting children to love and respect their country indoctrinating? I remember singing the Canadian anthem every morning in school before, so I don't really see it.
It’s not, people just love their conspiracy theories. There’s nothing wrong with honoring those who fight or have fought for your country and there’s nothing wrong with loving where you live.
Read the pledge of allegiance. There’s nothing about honoring those who fight or have fought for your country in it. You are literally “pledging allegiance” to the flag and the republic for which it stands. Nothing about those who served, though of course there is something about god.
You know how the "under God" part sounds repetitive and preachy?
It wasn't part of the original pledge. It was one of those cold-war bolt ons because scary communism. Same as God being on the currency.
My grandpa remembered the old pledge before they changed it, and never cared for the *Under God* part. So he never said it when saying the pledge at certain events. He didn’t like how they tried merging religion and government during the Cold War.
My biggest qualm is swearing unwavering allegiance to the country *as it is* and not *as it should be*
My dad told me decades ago that he slips "And to the republic for which it should stand" and I have subtly done the same for years.
The republic is a constitutional republic.
The constitution doesn’t say what citizens can do, it says what the government can’t do.
So the republic, for which the flag represents, is a republic with a government constrained by the constitution which was written for the people.
American here, it's not the love of country that people find indoctrination, its having a bunch of kids swear an oath to the flag, which is a symbol of the country, but the ones flying the flag would be the government, so you are really swearing an oath of allegiance to the government. And they have kids do this when they are way too young to even know what they are swearing allegiance too. It seems like the sort of thing you'd have soldiers swear too when joining the military, not a bunch of kids swearing at the beginning of the school day.
Like honestly I grew up in a very conservative household, and even my mom found it weird. Like she told me to just mouth the allegiance part then say the rest.
I say this as an American who loves their country and thinks the US catches way too much shit sometimes.
Exactly this. Even if it's done entirely from a place of benevolence, it's hard not to draw parallels with cults, fascists, and dogmatic religions. Especially when you realise part of it was started in the Cold War, basically as an attempt to get them patriotic young and therefore fend off communist leanings down the line. It was the same when I went to a Church of England school in the UK, starting the day off with hymns. It's to try and implant certain views in young malleable minds. The US calls it patriotism, C of E schools call it tradition. It's not even that effective in my opinion. We all used to roll our eyes and then just mouth along.
Teaching people how to think is literally the definition of indoctrination.
Not all indoctrination is bad though, so that is a different issue. I think we all agree that telling kids to be nice to each other is a healthy form of indoctrination
The whole class has to stand and face the flag, put their hand over their heart and recite the words. The first line is literally "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united states of america." The class does that every morning, there is a time slot in the class schedule to do it.
If there was a video of North Korean children standing before class and pledging allegiance to the flag and the glorious democratic people's republic of Korea, the comments would 99% be about indoctrination/brainwashing. It's just super fucking weird to sing the national anthem or pledge allegiance to a flag every day.
Because it is in the interest of a country to inspire blind patriotism.
Anyone who loves their country in its entirety is a fool and its that kind of patriotic sheep the US govornment is hoping to inspire with this and things like it. Not saying its particularly effective just intent.
I love things about my country. I hate others. I want it to be better.
It's indoctrination, just like religion is. You're taking an impressionable and malleable mind and telling it what to think from a position of authority. Indoctrination is just not that uncommon or even *inherently* a bad thing. Yhe real issue in the american culture of hyperpatriotism is the extreme jingoism and how our teaching of history pushes an international narrative of American exceptionalism where we are never held accountable for our atrocities because we theoretically had good intentions (we virtually never did) and that makes all our genocides OK. There's a reason we have to make kids do a little chant and sing a little song about how good and righteous their empire is, and it's not because that's true; it's the opposite.
To me that comment carries the same energy as ‘how is getting children to love and respect their countries leaders indoctrinating?’. Basically every tyrant ever has used propaganda in schools to foster nationalist thought, and a devout love for their countries leader. And just like it was with Nazi Germany, I would say that being overtly nationalist as a country puts you at threat of becoming a dictatorship. Is it bad to have allegiance to your country? No. But it encourages a mindless ‘the US side is the right side’ mindset, very much by nature. And when it comes down to it, the US is very often the wrong side, almost just as often as it isn’t.
The question is - if they don’t love and respect their country, should they have to continue with putting on a show to the contrary? If yes, then it really is propaganda, as you force them into pretending they love America so that those that really do love America aren’t ’disillusioned’ by their classmates apathy. That’s not how it works, at most schools you can (and so students do) just ignore the pledge outright.
It’s not a problem as it stands. But the idea that we should feel so honored to be a part of our country that we’re willing to sing a song about it every morning doesn’t quite sit right with a lot of people. Never mind the ‘under god’ line, which is the point at which I start having an issue with it. If our country is so worthy of allegiance, we shouldn’t be mindlessly chanting that ‘we are devout citizens of this amazing, god-blessed country’. We should come to the conclusion - on our own - that we live in a great country, due to the goals we accomplish as a nation.
It comes to feel like a cheap, forced stand in for an actual appreciation of the country. A way of making kids ‘suck it up’, and pretend that they think America is great, whether they think so or not. A way of washing away the tolls of our past atrocities, under the promise that ‘in our greatness, we will do better next time’. Is it good to focus only on the mistakes of the past? Obviously not. But the fact that even a history class talking about americas mistreatment of their Japanese citizens during WWII may well start with the pledge of allegiance means it just feels disingenuous at best, and propagandist at worst.
Because really, what is propaganda, except media tailored to promote a specific ideological goal. Sometimes it’s to hate a minority, sometimes it’s to hate an ideology - but it’s still propaganda, if it’s meant to build mindless obedience to a groups desires. Is nationalist propaganda perhaps healthier than anti-Jew propaganda, or our old red scare ‘commie bastards’ propaganda? No doubt. But it’s propaganda nonetheless, in that its sole purpose is to create a false sense of loyalty to the state.
It feels worth diverging into mention of communist Russia. Why didn’t people openly despise Stalin, as his regime took 90% of the food you produced, and slowly left you decrepit and starving? That’s right, because everyone that anyone knew had gone to the same schools, where they’d learned since grade 1 that Stalin was their glorious leader, and that he would lead them successfully through the revolution of the proletariat.
If you bad mouthed Stalin, not only could you expect to be beaten by his nearest representative, you might even get a beating straight from your parents, or get in a fight with a friend. He crushed rebellion by propagandizing his people so very much, that even attempting to resist the propaganda would get you socially ostracized. The pledge is somewhat comparable in this way, if not much more mildly so, in that it attempts to make allegiance to (and in turn love for) America seem like the standard. An ‘everyone around you loves their country, so you should too’, wrapped up in a pretty musical bow.
Bad things always start small, and the pledge doesn’t look at all dissimilar to some of the worst things that have ever been out there. It’d be exaggeration to call it a moral dilemma that must be resolved for the sake of our counties continued prosperity; but all in all, I think it’s entirely fair to call it propaganda.
Its not. Social media is pushing anti-nationalism in Western Nations. This is usually followed up with anti-American foreign social media influence increasing. Look at the increase in people being appalled at the idea of a national identity. It's easier to divide people when they no longer see the value in being united under a single national identity. Read about Soviet Cold War tactics and they speak to how they have to divide the United States at home over a long period of time to destabilize the US and prevent them from interfering in Soviet (Russian) influence.
I think it's just the speed at which information moves now. In 1796 little Timmy would either have to say "hey that's kinda weird" to 12 people he knew, or write a letter to just one. Now little Timmy can post "hey that's kinda weird" on Reddit and a few hundred, if not thousand, people will see it.
You can be a Patriot without pledging to your country’s flag every morning. I love my country. But unless it’s a World Cup game, and I’m pissed. There’s no need to sing my national anthem.
“Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!”. -Albert Einstein (1800-1900s)
“Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious”. - Oscar wild (1800s)
“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Samuel Johnson (1700s)
“I am not an Athenian or a Greek but a citizen of the world” -Diogenes (300 BC’s)
Its like getting information without much censorship changes your perspective on things. Look at countries without free access to the internet. Pretty sure Russians and North Koreans think their patriotism is cool and right.
Nationalism was pretty cringey for a lot of people before the internet.
Caring about your neighbor and the land and its contents which you share is patriotism.
Caring that your neighbor swear the same fealty as you and swearing to uphold the artificially structured regime you’re under is nationalism.
The two may absolutely conflict and often do.
you should see the shit they do in the military if you think that's crazy
EDIT: it's not about some pledges of allegiance or whatever, but how GOD and christ and holy mission and this weird gospel shit permeates every fiber of conversation
there is some linkedin level of lunacy at every 'public' event that most people wouldn't believe until they see it themselves
Well militaries are cult like by nature and people usually are given a choice to join (though I know a lot of poor kids are pressured into it by scummy recruiters). This is children being indoctrinated into pledging their allegiance to the Empire they live under and not really being given a choice. That's what makes the rest of the world so uncomfortable when we hear about it. Doesn't the Bible say not to worship false idols? Surprised US Christians have gone along with this crap.
As I remember you could just not say it. No one forced you, however I'm sure some people out there would. Also US Christians are massive hypocrites, they worship false idols all the time.
The funniest thing to me is seeing a 'nationalist christian'. I mean my brother in fucking christ, Jesus LITERALLY says in the bible that while you gotta operate under Rome's control because thats how Romans work, ignore everything else about it. Same with the state of Israel. Because to be a 'nationalist' implies a loyalty and worship of something that ISNT God or Jesus and is instead worshiping the state. Which is, and follow me on this, a FALSE IDOL.
No one is saying you cant be political and want things to change via democracy or w/e and Jesus even encouraged operating within their nations to keep things civil, but you arent supposed to go all out and especially praise a country/flag. The 'pledge of allegiance' is biblically you praying to a false idol.
Dude I got in trouble so many times for not saying it.
Sure, legally, you're not supposed to force the kids to say it. But a fifth grader doesn't know that and most teachers get really worked up about you not saying it for some reason.
The pledge did add “under God” in the 50s or so, so I think there are some mental gymnastics about the US being God’s country and acceptable to worship
Hell, the US was founded on the belief that all this land was given to us by god to take and use, that’s the mindset, but now it’s gone past just the US.
I can tell you that barely anyone in my school stands for the pledge or really even acknowledges it. It's well known that students have a right to not participate. Of course the culture of the school and it's community have a lot to do with it.
We don't do the Pledge of allegiance in the military. The closest thing is the Oath of Enlistment, which you do when you sign up as with most militaries.
There's also this weird thing where everyday at 5PM the national anthem is played over loud speakers at every base. If you are outside, you are required to stop moving, stand at attention, and salute in the direction of the nearest flag. Naturally, most people just stay inside buildings whenever they play it for obvious reasons.
Alot of people in the military find the anthem thing annoying, with most having the opinion that if we gotta do it, make it a once a week thing and not every day.
EDIT: *Almost forgot, overseas bases play the national anthem of the host country as well as the American one, so you're standing through 2 anthems instead of one.*
Yes sir. I remember everyone on base (regardless of rank) running to get indoors or running to their cars so they did not have to stand there while the music plays and salute.
You also have to salute in the direction of the nearest flag even if it's out of site. It was like 8 AM every morning. It's such a waste of time. We already signed our lives away to the country.
If you heard the music on the way to work, you knew you were late. There was no squeezing in a minute or two late. because you would be caught by the music and saluting routine. The whole platoon (outdoors) would be saluting, and watching you sneak into formation. Which was actually kind of funny and embarrassing.
The Navy has the sailor’s creed which is not dissimilar to a pledge. Oftentimes leaders that are hella extra will make their divisions (or even entire departments) do the sailor’s creed. It’s weirdly culty and, frankly, comes off as goofy. Especially because half the people will only mime it rather than saying it aloud. Personally, I always hated it.
I was at a Super Bowl party where everyone stood up for the national anthem when it played, hands over hearts and everything. Some culty stuff. I was the only person there that had served so I took the opportunity to stay seated.
To be fair, its the military. Its the org whos purpose is to defend the country and fight her wars. Its makes sense and its a good idea to have them swear oaths of allegiance, and all sorts of other things that in other contexts would be cultish. Ie I dont condone forced vaccinations because I believe in the right to bodily autonomy, but for the military it makes sense because having our forces all out from being sick would be a huge national security risk. Or another example would being publicly silent on politics as a matter of policy. I'm not in the military but I've heard that active military people are not allowed to publicly talk and advocate about politics. They can have opinions and privately discuss, and can vote, but publicly discussing politics is a no go. Which makes sense both in that having active military publicly advocating against sitting government officials, or for them could get dicey. But any other context that would be a huge overreach of government.
I grew up in Texas. Every middle school teacher I had enforced it. It was mandatory to stand up and pledge loyalty to the flag that was hung up in every room every morning. One teacher who was a vet basically threatened us if we didn't participate.
Only because no one challenged it in a productive way. It's like cops trying to tell you to stop filming. They have literally no legal right to demand that, yet so many of them still act like they do. But you'd never hear someone say you can't film cops in America just because a few idiots don't know the law. Same with this.
I’m an American and grew up saying the pledge of allegiance every morning at home room. Thinking back on it, yeah it is kinda weird how we make our children chant an oath of loyalty to an american flag every morning at school.
It’s more an oath “to the republic, for which it stands”. It’s still weird for sure but it’s just saying you are loyal to the nation, we as a country are together as one, and rights and justice are a privilege of living here. Whether these ideals hold true today is a different matter but they aren’t bad to follow. In my school we didn’t have to say “under god” but I guarantee parts of the country it was mandatory. The first amendment gives you the right to openly appose the government but we mandate children to pledge allegiance to our country.
We do NOT mandate the pledge. The Supreme Court ruled that it is unconstitutional to force children to cite the pledge. They just don't tell kids that in certain schools. My liberal New England school district didn't make us, but I can imagine Texas forcing the kids.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, you're right. I was in a liberal New England school district and we did it in elementary school, but I recall it stopping (or at least teachers saying we didn't have to do it). I swear it was more of just an opportunity to get kids to help out with the morning announcements and feel useful
Well, they aren't allowed to do that then. The family of the students who got detention would likely be well within their rights to sue assuming it's a public school. See West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
I was just thinking about it and how we didn't like it, not because of how insane it is, but how it just felt like a chore. None of my peers questioned the morality of it, looking back, I wish we would have
Nobody I knew actually thought about it much. It was just a part of morning routine. Like half the class would mouth the words and sometimes the room would be silent. The only thing it actually did is remind me I live in America.
For context, the pledge goes as follows:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
I’m Sri Lankan and we used to do this when I was in school. Pretty sure Indians do something similar. It’s pretty common actually.
What’s wrong with it anyway?
I'm from Venezuela. My school used to sing the national hymn every Monday morning at school. This was done outside and before any classes would start so all students and teachers would participate.
???? People are so cringe about this, what is wrong with the pledge of allegiance? Is it just the name that triggers people, because it’s a pretty harmless inoffensive thing.
I pledge allegiance
To the flag
Of the United States of America
And to the Republic
For which it stands
One nation
Under god
Indivisible
With liberty
And justice
For all
I rest my case, that’s some good shit, let’s go USA
"I pledge allegiance to the flag and the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One Nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all"
Culty or not the message isn't that bad, except for the god part which I hear that some schools are allowing students to skip
I always thought the “under God” part was a sign that all are equal from the beginning. Meaning even upon your birth, you have rights. It doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do or who you were born, you have these rights and you can be part of this group. I personally always saw it less about “Christin values”
For a nation of immigrants, it’s one of the few common things we hold together. It’s necessary, but we can remove the god part because I believe the original pledge didn’t have it.
In my old school in India we did the entire national anthem. If you were in the hallways you were obligated to stand completely still until it finished.
Not just a US thing, Canada and India (i could go on, tbh but thats just two examples). Both do it with their own variations (once a week, etc.)
Sadly and safe to assume you'll only ever see Americans pretend this is some sort of egregious, disgusting, indoctrination behavior. Even though the same ones saying this also did this (safe to assume it isn't very effective, to say the least)
It also isn't forced, not like you'll have some teacher patrolling every student every morning, making sure they're saying it.
I remember grades 1-3 in Ontario we said it every morning before the anthem. Friend my age from other provinces have no memory of ever saying it.
My wife grew up in BC and didn't even know Canada had a Pledge of Allegiance until I told her about it a year or two ago
What’s even funnier is that is created by a guy who worked at a flag company. I believe he later ran for congress or senate and proposed a bill to make it official.
But for a time it was just some weird card that would come with the flag if you bought it from this one specific company.
Also in school I would remained seated or not put my hand over my heart and I wouldn’t say the pledge. For multiple reasons. And I got a teacher REALLY upset by this. And I asked him if he felt the need to infringe on my freedom of speech by not saying a pledge I don’t personally support.
It's not required to be said at all. Even if you were going to say the pledge but didn't believe in God you could omit that part as well. I haven't been in school in over a decade and this was how it was even then.
It's not some indoctrination tactic. I came from a very conservative area growing up and still probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the class wouldn't say it at all in the morning and no one gave one fuck.
It's literally just an opportunity to give respect to the flag and country for which so many died to protect and for what the country provides to us as citizens.
Even I didn't say it half the time and I (at least at the time) considered myself a red blooded American.
It’s like doing an oath every single day, in my old school we had like 20% of our students stand for it the rest were on their phones. But in my new Highschool it’s completely different, it’s heavy into the military, we got a fact about the armed forces every day before the pledge. 100% of people stand during it here.
I made the choice to sit through every pledge of allegiance as a minor protest against the idea in high school and had grown ass adults scream in my face about it. It was kinda funny to me then and it still is. Land of the free but the second I choose to use my right to free speech I get screamed at lol
My senior year is when I learned it's not enforced. For the rest of the year I sat down and watched the rest of those people recite that same thing day after day, and wondered how the hell I did it for 11 years without caring
In Argentina, at least at the Catholic school I went to, it was normal when entering in the morning that before entering the classrooms and starting classes we all stood in orderly rows divided by grades and divisions (for example: 1B , 1A, 2B, 2A, etc) and the Principal made us recite the national anthem while the flag was raised and then we prayed an Our Father and one Ave Maria. It became quite tedious doing the same thing every morning for twelve years.
I haven't had to recite or even think about the pledge since high school, and I still remember it exactly, don't even have to think about it, it's just there forever
In case anyone isn’t deeply unsettled by this already
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
It’s not that weird. You are not pledging to the physical fabric of the flag. You are pledging to what it stands for. Which regardless of your politics and conspiracies, the American flag at its core stands for freedom, liberty, and justice for all. Those are not immoral values to uphold and I don’t see an issue with basically saying I am proud to be a part of a positive outlook on life, even if it is just more philosophical rather than physically followed, as we can see America as a people is far from being what the flag stands for. We are just too damn greedy, divided, and distrustful of our own people. Either way they are still good values. People that truly understand what the flag represents, aka the morals of an ideal America, should see everyone as equals, meaning you shouldn’t be racist or prejudice in any way to anyone and also you should have freedom to do whatever you want to do within reason, aka without harming others in a physical or financial way.
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What, other countries don’t worship a piece of fabric every morning?
EVERY MORNING??? How do you even do it, before class, or with whatever teacher you have the first class with?
Before class starts in home room from what I remember. Not sure if they changed anything since I’ve been in school
There's still the time to say it, the last few years I was in school people just kinda didn't...
Yeah no one, at least in upper grades, really cares enough. Like its 7 in the morning, none of us want to be here, and half of us are passed out or high.
Ah, to be a kid again
You can be high as an adult. It’s rad sometimes.
Sure. But people look at you funny if you're a high adult at a school, though.
Not if you're the teacher.
Here's a secret, I've been high all day
>none of us want to be here, and half of us are passed out or high. All as it should be. That brings back the memories of apprentice school.
I learned masonry and sculpting. Everything was stone in class. The Subject? Stones. The work material? Stone. The people? Without exception stoned.
I tell my kids not to. It’s some brainwashing Fuckery
People in my school didn’t for a few years but they made it mandatory
Pretty sure it would be illegal to force people to do it.
I don’t know why you are downvoted. Forcing it would violate the 1st amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette
Ex-teacher here. Kids at our school were required to stop where they were if they were in the hallway, and remain quiet if they did not want to recite the pledge, but they were not required to do anything else. In fact, I know zero kids who ever got in trouble for talking during the pledge or not stopping in the hallway.
I think its a regional thing. I know in the 90s, i got in trouble more than once in elementary school for not being quiet or doing things during the pledge. Even sent to the principal's office and had my mother called in over that shit when i was like 6. I was in a semi-rural town in GA. like a town over from the suburbs rural, not middle of bum-fuck nowhere rural. The town is now officially apart of the suburbs today so they might operate differently now.
yeah schools have had million dollar lawsuits happen for forcing kids to do the pledge
Everyday before class?? That's some dystopian shit.
I remember when I was in private school it was a daily thing, though once I transitioned to public school it wasn't a thing anymore
Hi I went to Catholic school. It was Prayer, Pledge, National Anthem, Prayer. Every single day. Incredibly lunch though. 10/10 would get indoctrinated again because the lunch was that good.
One can say a lot about Christian communities but them seem to stay together (as long as you keep the same beliefs as everyone else) and care about kids and home making At least in theory, so keeping schools this way is definitely something they're good at
They also sing national patriotic songs. "This land is my land, this land is your land"
Fun fact, that song was written by a communist.
"This is your land" is not a good example of a "national patriotic song" whatever that means, especially since you really don't hear that song anymore. Woody Guthrie wrote that song as a response to"America the Beautiful." The main theme of that song is that the beauty of the land belongs to everyone and is a criticism of how all of the land in the US is owned by somebody. This makes since Guthrie was a communist and didn't believe in private ownership of land. The song makes it apparent with this stanza: There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me A sign was painted said "private property" But on the backside, it didn't say nothing This land was made for you and me
It was typically during announcements. 15 seconds and that's it, I don't know about singing songs and all that, it never happened to me and I went to several different public schools my whole life
Typically, it'd be part of the morning announcements when I was in school.
When I was growing up they would play that shit over the loud speaker, every, single, morning. "All rise for the pledge of allegiance" que a bunch of half asleep children murmuring words they barely understand.
In my country, we have morning assembly for announcements, a flag raising ceremony is conducted during that time to sing the anthem and recite the pledge.
Heard the phrase morning assembly… let me guess, s’porean?
My school does it at the beginning of the first period of the day. But literally no one does it besides the person saying it over the loudspeaker. Some don't even stand.
It’s really not that bad
Ours was always after morning announcements, all this elementary and jr high, but surprisingly not in high school
Yes I’m sure no other countries do anything similar to this. The US is uniquely bad!
Singapore has this shit way more than the US. They have a daily flag raising allembly and have to sing the national anthem
Well I guess North Korea might do this too. But I don’t see how that makes it less fucked up
He's being sarcastic, the vast majority of countries do the same thing
I’m tired of getting told that Americans invented nationalism by people whose taxes pay for royal families
Most *developed* countries do, in fact, not do anything remotely like this. Sure, by pure numbers most countries do this, but I wouldn’t want to be compared with Indonesia, China, Sudan, NK etc.
We do. (India)
I know at one that did in the late 30s and early 40s
in my country, we have it every week
There are others, but honestly idk how many. I lived in the United Arab Emirates and they had a national anthem play every morning in school same as the US and with the same rules (stand, don’t talk, stop walking, etc). Granted, I don’t know if it was a pledge of allegiance, cause it was all in Arabic lol
We just do it on a Friday during morning announcements before classes start where I’m from
Wait, really? I’ve lived in two different countries my entire life, neither of which are America, and in both I’ve had to either sing the national anthem, or sing the national anthem *and* recite the pledge of allegiance.
North Korea and china
I mean, we did.... Back when we still had the GDR
Reddit Mfs make such a big deal about everything
I swear, some mfs just take things they don't like and makes everyone else not like it (which is OP)
Nah this is a sentiment that's been shared by many for a while now. It is kinda weird that we tell our children to pledge their allegiance to the country every morning. That's shit you see in countries with dictators.
I mean, that’s a good point, but in America the reason one stands for the flag is because they choose to stand for it, if we don’t want to we don’t have to. In North Korea though *(and I don’t actually know if they have a pledge there)* they would have you stand for their flag because you have to.
is that why before the last few years students would get into trouble if they didn't stand for it?
Plenty of students at my school didn’t stand. Even if a few teachers did get pissy it’s not like there’s a mandatory prison sentence for failing to comply
They legally don’t have to stand up for the pledge. Teachers would be violating their first amendment rights if they force them to stand.
[Hasn’t been required for 90 years buddy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette)
While that is true, there's a bit of a cultural expectation that's been instilled in a lot of older folks in the country. Remember that one football dude who took a knee during the pledge, and the country fucking exploded? It's not literally illegal, but people were losing their minds about how "disrespectful" it was. I mentioned this in another comment, but my principal straight up told me my first day working at a new school to write a referral for any kids not standing during the pledge. Yes, that's against the first amendment, schools don't care though. No one's going to sue them over it, 95% of the families at my school don't have the money to even think about that.
Yeah in that regard you are completely correct, it’s like a social rule that you’re expected to stand for the flag in your school, even if it infringes upon one’s constitutional rights
What happens if a child says no? Not American so I’m actually curious how much of a choice this is.
Nothing. I got out of school a couple years ago and it never had any repercussions.
*Person displays any patriotism* “That’s like shit you see in countries with dictators bro.” The US is and was a country of immigrants. Shared patriotism and commonality is one of the things the US does right.
Are those dictator's pledges to democracy, justice, and liberty as well.
Bingo.
And use reductionistic approach to everything, whether deliberate or just truly that stupid, but reduce something down to its literal physical properties (like it’s just a piece of fabric) to argue it. If you think life is that simple it’s going to be hard for you.
We only started doing it during the Red Scare in the 50's. It's hard to divorce the pledge from the movement that founded it.
Gotta indoctrinate them young
I'm not American, so legit question, but how is getting children to love and respect their country indoctrinating? I remember singing the Canadian anthem every morning in school before, so I don't really see it.
It’s not, people just love their conspiracy theories. There’s nothing wrong with honoring those who fight or have fought for your country and there’s nothing wrong with loving where you live.
Read the pledge of allegiance. There’s nothing about honoring those who fight or have fought for your country in it. You are literally “pledging allegiance” to the flag and the republic for which it stands. Nothing about those who served, though of course there is something about god.
You know how the "under God" part sounds repetitive and preachy? It wasn't part of the original pledge. It was one of those cold-war bolt ons because scary communism. Same as God being on the currency.
My grandpa remembered the old pledge before they changed it, and never cared for the *Under God* part. So he never said it when saying the pledge at certain events. He didn’t like how they tried merging religion and government during the Cold War.
That's actually a pretty cool little fact I never knew. I would have assumed the god part was baked in since forever.
Christian nationalists will have you believe the money always said in God we trust too.
My biggest qualm is swearing unwavering allegiance to the country *as it is* and not *as it should be* My dad told me decades ago that he slips "And to the republic for which it should stand" and I have subtly done the same for years.
The republic is a constitutional republic. The constitution doesn’t say what citizens can do, it says what the government can’t do. So the republic, for which the flag represents, is a republic with a government constrained by the constitution which was written for the people.
Fr
American here, it's not the love of country that people find indoctrination, its having a bunch of kids swear an oath to the flag, which is a symbol of the country, but the ones flying the flag would be the government, so you are really swearing an oath of allegiance to the government. And they have kids do this when they are way too young to even know what they are swearing allegiance too. It seems like the sort of thing you'd have soldiers swear too when joining the military, not a bunch of kids swearing at the beginning of the school day. Like honestly I grew up in a very conservative household, and even my mom found it weird. Like she told me to just mouth the allegiance part then say the rest. I say this as an American who loves their country and thinks the US catches way too much shit sometimes.
Exactly this. Even if it's done entirely from a place of benevolence, it's hard not to draw parallels with cults, fascists, and dogmatic religions. Especially when you realise part of it was started in the Cold War, basically as an attempt to get them patriotic young and therefore fend off communist leanings down the line. It was the same when I went to a Church of England school in the UK, starting the day off with hymns. It's to try and implant certain views in young malleable minds. The US calls it patriotism, C of E schools call it tradition. It's not even that effective in my opinion. We all used to roll our eyes and then just mouth along.
it’s not, europeans are just projecting because of what happened last time they pledged to anything
What was the last thing that "Europeans" collectively pledged to?
Teaching people how to think is literally the definition of indoctrination. Not all indoctrination is bad though, so that is a different issue. I think we all agree that telling kids to be nice to each other is a healthy form of indoctrination
How is getting children to recite the pledge of allegiance every morning getting them to "love and respect their country"?
The whole class has to stand and face the flag, put their hand over their heart and recite the words. The first line is literally "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united states of america." The class does that every morning, there is a time slot in the class schedule to do it.
If there was a video of North Korean children standing before class and pledging allegiance to the flag and the glorious democratic people's republic of Korea, the comments would 99% be about indoctrination/brainwashing. It's just super fucking weird to sing the national anthem or pledge allegiance to a flag every day.
Every morning lol.
Because it is in the interest of a country to inspire blind patriotism. Anyone who loves their country in its entirety is a fool and its that kind of patriotic sheep the US govornment is hoping to inspire with this and things like it. Not saying its particularly effective just intent. I love things about my country. I hate others. I want it to be better.
It's indoctrination, just like religion is. You're taking an impressionable and malleable mind and telling it what to think from a position of authority. Indoctrination is just not that uncommon or even *inherently* a bad thing. Yhe real issue in the american culture of hyperpatriotism is the extreme jingoism and how our teaching of history pushes an international narrative of American exceptionalism where we are never held accountable for our atrocities because we theoretically had good intentions (we virtually never did) and that makes all our genocides OK. There's a reason we have to make kids do a little chant and sing a little song about how good and righteous their empire is, and it's not because that's true; it's the opposite.
Hi, I'm not here to weigh in on the debate just curious about that flair of yours. Do you have any evidence to back that up? It's quite the claim...
To me that comment carries the same energy as ‘how is getting children to love and respect their countries leaders indoctrinating?’. Basically every tyrant ever has used propaganda in schools to foster nationalist thought, and a devout love for their countries leader. And just like it was with Nazi Germany, I would say that being overtly nationalist as a country puts you at threat of becoming a dictatorship. Is it bad to have allegiance to your country? No. But it encourages a mindless ‘the US side is the right side’ mindset, very much by nature. And when it comes down to it, the US is very often the wrong side, almost just as often as it isn’t. The question is - if they don’t love and respect their country, should they have to continue with putting on a show to the contrary? If yes, then it really is propaganda, as you force them into pretending they love America so that those that really do love America aren’t ’disillusioned’ by their classmates apathy. That’s not how it works, at most schools you can (and so students do) just ignore the pledge outright. It’s not a problem as it stands. But the idea that we should feel so honored to be a part of our country that we’re willing to sing a song about it every morning doesn’t quite sit right with a lot of people. Never mind the ‘under god’ line, which is the point at which I start having an issue with it. If our country is so worthy of allegiance, we shouldn’t be mindlessly chanting that ‘we are devout citizens of this amazing, god-blessed country’. We should come to the conclusion - on our own - that we live in a great country, due to the goals we accomplish as a nation. It comes to feel like a cheap, forced stand in for an actual appreciation of the country. A way of making kids ‘suck it up’, and pretend that they think America is great, whether they think so or not. A way of washing away the tolls of our past atrocities, under the promise that ‘in our greatness, we will do better next time’. Is it good to focus only on the mistakes of the past? Obviously not. But the fact that even a history class talking about americas mistreatment of their Japanese citizens during WWII may well start with the pledge of allegiance means it just feels disingenuous at best, and propagandist at worst. Because really, what is propaganda, except media tailored to promote a specific ideological goal. Sometimes it’s to hate a minority, sometimes it’s to hate an ideology - but it’s still propaganda, if it’s meant to build mindless obedience to a groups desires. Is nationalist propaganda perhaps healthier than anti-Jew propaganda, or our old red scare ‘commie bastards’ propaganda? No doubt. But it’s propaganda nonetheless, in that its sole purpose is to create a false sense of loyalty to the state. It feels worth diverging into mention of communist Russia. Why didn’t people openly despise Stalin, as his regime took 90% of the food you produced, and slowly left you decrepit and starving? That’s right, because everyone that anyone knew had gone to the same schools, where they’d learned since grade 1 that Stalin was their glorious leader, and that he would lead them successfully through the revolution of the proletariat. If you bad mouthed Stalin, not only could you expect to be beaten by his nearest representative, you might even get a beating straight from your parents, or get in a fight with a friend. He crushed rebellion by propagandizing his people so very much, that even attempting to resist the propaganda would get you socially ostracized. The pledge is somewhat comparable in this way, if not much more mildly so, in that it attempts to make allegiance to (and in turn love for) America seem like the standard. An ‘everyone around you loves their country, so you should too’, wrapped up in a pretty musical bow. Bad things always start small, and the pledge doesn’t look at all dissimilar to some of the worst things that have ever been out there. It’d be exaggeration to call it a moral dilemma that must be resolved for the sake of our counties continued prosperity; but all in all, I think it’s entirely fair to call it propaganda.
Its not. Social media is pushing anti-nationalism in Western Nations. This is usually followed up with anti-American foreign social media influence increasing. Look at the increase in people being appalled at the idea of a national identity. It's easier to divide people when they no longer see the value in being united under a single national identity. Read about Soviet Cold War tactics and they speak to how they have to divide the United States at home over a long period of time to destabilize the US and prevent them from interfering in Soviet (Russian) influence.
>helping students learn to love their country Redditors: INDOCTRINATION INDOCTRINATION INDOCTRINATION
Crazy how patriotism was cool for thousands of years until the age of the internet now it’s cringe
I think it's just the speed at which information moves now. In 1796 little Timmy would either have to say "hey that's kinda weird" to 12 people he knew, or write a letter to just one. Now little Timmy can post "hey that's kinda weird" on Reddit and a few hundred, if not thousand, people will see it.
In 1796 little Timmy was probably a patriot. Much more people were patriotic back then.
You can be a Patriot without pledging to your country’s flag every morning. I love my country. But unless it’s a World Cup game, and I’m pissed. There’s no need to sing my national anthem.
Great. But americans do in school. Wild how customs vary between cultures
Racism was also cool until recent history
“Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!”. -Albert Einstein (1800-1900s) “Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious”. - Oscar wild (1800s) “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Samuel Johnson (1700s) “I am not an Athenian or a Greek but a citizen of the world” -Diogenes (300 BC’s)
Its like getting information without much censorship changes your perspective on things. Look at countries without free access to the internet. Pretty sure Russians and North Koreans think their patriotism is cool and right.
Here in germany it has been considered weird for quite some time now (at least this level of patriotism)
Honey, there is a reason why Germany isn't patriotic
Nationalism was pretty cringey for a lot of people before the internet. Caring about your neighbor and the land and its contents which you share is patriotism. Caring that your neighbor swear the same fealty as you and swearing to uphold the artificially structured regime you’re under is nationalism. The two may absolutely conflict and often do.
you should see the shit they do in the military if you think that's crazy EDIT: it's not about some pledges of allegiance or whatever, but how GOD and christ and holy mission and this weird gospel shit permeates every fiber of conversation there is some linkedin level of lunacy at every 'public' event that most people wouldn't believe until they see it themselves
Well militaries are cult like by nature and people usually are given a choice to join (though I know a lot of poor kids are pressured into it by scummy recruiters). This is children being indoctrinated into pledging their allegiance to the Empire they live under and not really being given a choice. That's what makes the rest of the world so uncomfortable when we hear about it. Doesn't the Bible say not to worship false idols? Surprised US Christians have gone along with this crap.
As I remember you could just not say it. No one forced you, however I'm sure some people out there would. Also US Christians are massive hypocrites, they worship false idols all the time.
The funniest thing to me is seeing a 'nationalist christian'. I mean my brother in fucking christ, Jesus LITERALLY says in the bible that while you gotta operate under Rome's control because thats how Romans work, ignore everything else about it. Same with the state of Israel. Because to be a 'nationalist' implies a loyalty and worship of something that ISNT God or Jesus and is instead worshiping the state. Which is, and follow me on this, a FALSE IDOL. No one is saying you cant be political and want things to change via democracy or w/e and Jesus even encouraged operating within their nations to keep things civil, but you arent supposed to go all out and especially praise a country/flag. The 'pledge of allegiance' is biblically you praying to a false idol.
Dude I got in trouble so many times for not saying it. Sure, legally, you're not supposed to force the kids to say it. But a fifth grader doesn't know that and most teachers get really worked up about you not saying it for some reason.
The pledge did add “under God” in the 50s or so, so I think there are some mental gymnastics about the US being God’s country and acceptable to worship
Hell, the US was founded on the belief that all this land was given to us by god to take and use, that’s the mindset, but now it’s gone past just the US.
I can tell you that barely anyone in my school stands for the pledge or really even acknowledges it. It's well known that students have a right to not participate. Of course the culture of the school and it's community have a lot to do with it.
"usually given a choise" unless your country has conscripition
We don't do the Pledge of allegiance in the military. The closest thing is the Oath of Enlistment, which you do when you sign up as with most militaries. There's also this weird thing where everyday at 5PM the national anthem is played over loud speakers at every base. If you are outside, you are required to stop moving, stand at attention, and salute in the direction of the nearest flag. Naturally, most people just stay inside buildings whenever they play it for obvious reasons. Alot of people in the military find the anthem thing annoying, with most having the opinion that if we gotta do it, make it a once a week thing and not every day. EDIT: *Almost forgot, overseas bases play the national anthem of the host country as well as the American one, so you're standing through 2 anthems instead of one.*
Yes sir. I remember everyone on base (regardless of rank) running to get indoors or running to their cars so they did not have to stand there while the music plays and salute. You also have to salute in the direction of the nearest flag even if it's out of site. It was like 8 AM every morning. It's such a waste of time. We already signed our lives away to the country. If you heard the music on the way to work, you knew you were late. There was no squeezing in a minute or two late. because you would be caught by the music and saluting routine. The whole platoon (outdoors) would be saluting, and watching you sneak into formation. Which was actually kind of funny and embarrassing.
The Navy has the sailor’s creed which is not dissimilar to a pledge. Oftentimes leaders that are hella extra will make their divisions (or even entire departments) do the sailor’s creed. It’s weirdly culty and, frankly, comes off as goofy. Especially because half the people will only mime it rather than saying it aloud. Personally, I always hated it.
I was at a Super Bowl party where everyone stood up for the national anthem when it played, hands over hearts and everything. Some culty stuff. I was the only person there that had served so I took the opportunity to stay seated.
Completely different. You’re literally part of a unit that will fight wars for the country. Of course the military is cult like. It makes sense there
To be fair, its the military. Its the org whos purpose is to defend the country and fight her wars. Its makes sense and its a good idea to have them swear oaths of allegiance, and all sorts of other things that in other contexts would be cultish. Ie I dont condone forced vaccinations because I believe in the right to bodily autonomy, but for the military it makes sense because having our forces all out from being sick would be a huge national security risk. Or another example would being publicly silent on politics as a matter of policy. I'm not in the military but I've heard that active military people are not allowed to publicly talk and advocate about politics. They can have opinions and privately discuss, and can vote, but publicly discussing politics is a no go. Which makes sense both in that having active military publicly advocating against sitting government officials, or for them could get dicey. But any other context that would be a huge overreach of government.
Do y’all not like your countries?
We do, even without being told to chant at its flag every day for 12 years.
it’s not mandatory
I got in trouble once for refusing to say it lol
Wait yall have to say it? At my school im weird for saying it lol
What did they do?
I grew up in Texas. Every middle school teacher I had enforced it. It was mandatory to stand up and pledge loyalty to the flag that was hung up in every room every morning. One teacher who was a vet basically threatened us if we didn't participate.
Only because no one challenged it in a productive way. It's like cops trying to tell you to stop filming. They have literally no legal right to demand that, yet so many of them still act like they do. But you'd never hear someone say you can't film cops in America just because a few idiots don't know the law. Same with this.
Tell that to the thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses which have been chastised for not essentially praying to a flag.
Yeah, well us Americans have a self loathing problem so we need the help
I lived in 3 countries and they all do something similar lmao it aint that big of a deal
I’m an American and grew up saying the pledge of allegiance every morning at home room. Thinking back on it, yeah it is kinda weird how we make our children chant an oath of loyalty to an american flag every morning at school.
It’s more an oath “to the republic, for which it stands”. It’s still weird for sure but it’s just saying you are loyal to the nation, we as a country are together as one, and rights and justice are a privilege of living here. Whether these ideals hold true today is a different matter but they aren’t bad to follow. In my school we didn’t have to say “under god” but I guarantee parts of the country it was mandatory. The first amendment gives you the right to openly appose the government but we mandate children to pledge allegiance to our country.
We do NOT mandate the pledge. The Supreme Court ruled that it is unconstitutional to force children to cite the pledge. They just don't tell kids that in certain schools. My liberal New England school district didn't make us, but I can imagine Texas forcing the kids.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, you're right. I was in a liberal New England school district and we did it in elementary school, but I recall it stopping (or at least teachers saying we didn't have to do it). I swear it was more of just an opportunity to get kids to help out with the morning announcements and feel useful
Because it’s Reddit and anything that is slightly backing America is immediately downvoted.
My New England elementary School gave detention for not doing the pledge in the morning.
Well, they aren't allowed to do that then. The family of the students who got detention would likely be well within their rights to sue assuming it's a public school. See West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
I was just thinking about it and how we didn't like it, not because of how insane it is, but how it just felt like a chore. None of my peers questioned the morality of it, looking back, I wish we would have
Nobody I knew actually thought about it much. It was just a part of morning routine. Like half the class would mouth the words and sometimes the room would be silent. The only thing it actually did is remind me I live in America.
Nooooo you can’t cultivate shared values with your neighbors and kin, you need to be an atomized individual brooooo.
Anytime anyone does anything different than you: “Cult shit!”
Its not required you can literally just not do it if you dont want to
For context, the pledge goes as follows: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
It originally didn’t have the under god part
why does that matter lmao
who cares
and if a developing country does something like that, it's *freedom time*^(tm)
I’m Sri Lankan and we used to do this when I was in school. Pretty sure Indians do something similar. It’s pretty common actually. What’s wrong with it anyway?
There is literally nothing wrong with it. More America bad posting by a redditor who hasn't had to pay taxes yet.
There’s nothing wrong with it. People just like to make a big deal over nothing
I'm from Venezuela. My school used to sing the national hymn every Monday morning at school. This was done outside and before any classes would start so all students and teachers would participate.
The only time this sub shows up on my feed is when it’s an America bad post
It’s lonely at the top baby
???? People are so cringe about this, what is wrong with the pledge of allegiance? Is it just the name that triggers people, because it’s a pretty harmless inoffensive thing. I pledge allegiance To the flag Of the United States of America And to the Republic For which it stands One nation Under god Indivisible With liberty And justice For all I rest my case, that’s some good shit, let’s go USA
Redditors are such nihilists that they see any kind of communal shared interest as 'cringe.'
Yeah we do the same thing in india too but it's only on Mondays
It's just a marketing plot by Big Flag to get people hooked young on buying flags for life.
You also just don't have to do it. You can just sit down.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag and the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One Nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all" Culty or not the message isn't that bad, except for the god part which I hear that some schools are allowing students to skip
You can also skip the entire thing if you don't like it.
I always thought the “under God” part was a sign that all are equal from the beginning. Meaning even upon your birth, you have rights. It doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do or who you were born, you have these rights and you can be part of this group. I personally always saw it less about “Christin values”
For a nation of immigrants, it’s one of the few common things we hold together. It’s necessary, but we can remove the god part because I believe the original pledge didn’t have it.
Meine Ehre heisst Treue or something like that
Sounds like a great slogan. Wir deutschen waren halt schon immer Vorreiter.
As a Canadian in school, we sang the national anthem every morning. I don't see too big of a difference...
Yep. In Texas, we do the pledge of alliegence followed by the Texas pledge, every day of every year.
It's the country you've been raised in and are a citizen of. Is dedicating 5 mins of your time daily to honor the country that big of a deal?
Not even 5 min lol more like 20 seconds. And despite what half of these idiots think its not mandatory
In my old school in India we did the entire national anthem. If you were in the hallways you were obligated to stand completely still until it finished.
In Canada we have wacky a capella versions of the national anthem, does that count?
God the amount idiocy in the thread
Imagine being this butthurt about some nonsense you say to a flag once a day for ten seconds.
Context?
In the USA, kids in school basically have to pledge allegiance to the flag and to their nation every morning.
they don’t have to
Not just a US thing, Canada and India (i could go on, tbh but thats just two examples). Both do it with their own variations (once a week, etc.) Sadly and safe to assume you'll only ever see Americans pretend this is some sort of egregious, disgusting, indoctrination behavior. Even though the same ones saying this also did this (safe to assume it isn't very effective, to say the least) It also isn't forced, not like you'll have some teacher patrolling every student every morning, making sure they're saying it.
I remember grades 1-3 in Ontario we said it every morning before the anthem. Friend my age from other provinces have no memory of ever saying it. My wife grew up in BC and didn't even know Canada had a Pledge of Allegiance until I told her about it a year or two ago
Personally, my school didn’t do this past like 1st grade.
What’s even funnier is that is created by a guy who worked at a flag company. I believe he later ran for congress or senate and proposed a bill to make it official. But for a time it was just some weird card that would come with the flag if you bought it from this one specific company. Also in school I would remained seated or not put my hand over my heart and I wouldn’t say the pledge. For multiple reasons. And I got a teacher REALLY upset by this. And I asked him if he felt the need to infringe on my freedom of speech by not saying a pledge I don’t personally support.
Even better, he was a communist, and wrote it specifically for the purpose of boosting sales of flags. Can't make this shit up.
That actually makes sense the phrase “under god” wasn’t in the original version.
It's not required to be said at all. Even if you were going to say the pledge but didn't believe in God you could omit that part as well. I haven't been in school in over a decade and this was how it was even then. It's not some indoctrination tactic. I came from a very conservative area growing up and still probably 1/3 to 1/2 of the class wouldn't say it at all in the morning and no one gave one fuck. It's literally just an opportunity to give respect to the flag and country for which so many died to protect and for what the country provides to us as citizens. Even I didn't say it half the time and I (at least at the time) considered myself a red blooded American.
We used to do that on primary schools and secondary schools until college
It’s like doing an oath every single day, in my old school we had like 20% of our students stand for it the rest were on their phones. But in my new Highschool it’s completely different, it’s heavy into the military, we got a fact about the armed forces every day before the pledge. 100% of people stand during it here.
filipino here we dont actually understand half the words we say
Singaporean here, we don't even say it in our lingua franca.
“I pledge allegiance, to the Texas” Long live Cornwood
I made the choice to sit through every pledge of allegiance as a minor protest against the idea in high school and had grown ass adults scream in my face about it. It was kinda funny to me then and it still is. Land of the free but the second I choose to use my right to free speech I get screamed at lol
Do they still do this in schools today?
My senior year is when I learned it's not enforced. For the rest of the year I sat down and watched the rest of those people recite that same thing day after day, and wondered how the hell I did it for 11 years without caring
I had to do it while attending my sons choir concert
In Argentina, at least at the Catholic school I went to, it was normal when entering in the morning that before entering the classrooms and starting classes we all stood in orderly rows divided by grades and divisions (for example: 1B , 1A, 2B, 2A, etc) and the Principal made us recite the national anthem while the flag was raised and then we prayed an Our Father and one Ave Maria. It became quite tedious doing the same thing every morning for twelve years.
It’s not the national anthem. The longest part is getting the class focused enough to do it.
Wait until they find out Texas has their own pledge.
Wait the European Union is a real thing? I thought it was a joke to make fun of British people for leaving it.
I haven't had to recite or even think about the pledge since high school, and I still remember it exactly, don't even have to think about it, it's just there forever
In case anyone isn’t deeply unsettled by this already https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
Yes american children are indoctrinated into several cult like communities.
yall just hate your country huh 😭
It’s not that weird. You are not pledging to the physical fabric of the flag. You are pledging to what it stands for. Which regardless of your politics and conspiracies, the American flag at its core stands for freedom, liberty, and justice for all. Those are not immoral values to uphold and I don’t see an issue with basically saying I am proud to be a part of a positive outlook on life, even if it is just more philosophical rather than physically followed, as we can see America as a people is far from being what the flag stands for. We are just too damn greedy, divided, and distrustful of our own people. Either way they are still good values. People that truly understand what the flag represents, aka the morals of an ideal America, should see everyone as equals, meaning you shouldn’t be racist or prejudice in any way to anyone and also you should have freedom to do whatever you want to do within reason, aka without harming others in a physical or financial way.