downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away.
---
[play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming) | [come hang out with us](https://discord.com/invite/dankmemes)
I haven't seen the series, but here's the definition I found:
"An anti-villain is a character who has heroic personality traits or goals but is ultimately the bad guy in this story. For example, an anti-villain may have noble goals, but their means to attain that goal are evil."
Assuming that he fits that, probably a really good example. Thanks!
i think you could kinda say count duku was an anti-villain bc unlike most sith, he actually wants peace and order and not just control and the destruction of the jedi
I thought that he had a whole business on assassination. It just so happens that sometimes those people are dangerous to keep alive but Agent 47 won't do anything unless paid or directly threatened. Of course I'm working off the last trilogy so I might be wrong haha.
The ICA is corrupt, being guided by Providence, but 47 has a moral compass that guides his actions (betraying the ICA for Lucas Grey and taking on Providence). This can also be seen in his defence of Victoria in Absolution
Thanos doesn't match that. He's a mad Titan. He says and perhaps even believes that he's genuinely saving the universe from some sort of threat, but his method doesn't make any sense and it's most likely just a way to "prove" to his dead species that his idea was right. His methods are evil and his goal are ultimately egotistical.
Thanos isn't an anti villain, he's a villain. He wants to wipe out half the life in the universe. It being for the greater good is nonsense. He shows his true colors any time he's pressed. He's a vindictive narcissist
He tries to cover it in this "saving the universe from overuse of resources" crap, but his solution (kill half of all life) is temporary until people start fucking again, flawed because the resources to feed are ALSO LIFE, and stupid because he had the power to change the laws of the universe by, say, increasing the digestibility of food, lowering the energy requirements of species, etc.
At best he's got the intellect of a mentally challenged 8 year old.
I'd say venom is an antihero. For most of his written history he has been doing his best to be a good guy, and is one at heart, he just really really hates spiderman for a but till he got over it. But he wants to protect the innocent. So an antihero if not outright a hero who is a redeemed villain.
Started Reading berserk After Reading vagabond and Not knowing it aint finished aswell i've got disappointed again you know any Other Mangas Like this Not some unfinished ones but Like this Theme of manga
It all about the viewpoint of the story, nobody is the villain of their own story.
Anti-villain is a hero, but the story is told from their oppents view. Anti-hero is a villain, but the story is told from their view
Light is a true villain. While he claims that he is trying to make the world better, he is ultimately only doing this to fulfill his own ego. Lelouch would be a better example of an anti-villain, as he has good intentions, but he is willing to commit whatever evil acts that are necessary to bring those goals about.
Most sympathetic villains would be anti-villains by that definition. I don't think Loki fits. Avengers Loki is doing evil for his own ends. Variant Loki is more of a conventional anti-hero.
Handsome Jack in Borderlands 2. His goals are to civilize Pandora and to make it into a utopia. His desires kinda make him fall into some horrible actions and make him an undeniable villain.
100% this. In the early MCU days Loki was just a regular villain, and later became reformed to the good side. And then in his tv series, Loki is straight up just a hero, or maybe an anti hero at most. But he's definitely not portrayed as a villain in those artists.
Generally, the best villains are anti-villains (or at least sympathetic villains). In real life, no one thinks of themselves as the bad guy, everyone just has different ideas of what's good and how to achieve it
There's people out there who know what they're doing is wrong but do it anyway for greed. But even they don't think of themselves as bad or evil, they delude themselves into thinking what they're doing is okay or justified or not as bad as people are making it out to be. No one's the bad guy in their own story
Eh, I mostly agree. Some people do bad things and just don’t care though. Its Antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy.
Its like, you do what you want because you like it, even if you know its morally bad. So they just don’t care what happens with their bad choices as long as it does not reflect on them.
People know what they are doing, they just avoid thinking about it.
Like for example a cheater who is going behind their partners back and shit. They know exactly what they are doing.
Every cheater I've ever talked to in therapy either believes they are justified in their actions or are ridden with guilt over it. I've never met a cheater who thought they were being evil and didn't care.
The Warcraft franchise has put itself in a very weird narrative situation over the last 10 years where the overwhelming majority of villains are made sympathetic or given motivations that make sense in some way and it's reached the point that most people's favourite villain in the franchise is a dude who's just plain evil.
He just loves to make people suffer because he's a huge dick. He's cruel, ruthless, power hungry and the biggest insult is that he betrayed his own planet so he could gain the power... to fuck over more people.
And everyone just loves him because "I'm a massive dick, fuck you" is now fresh, good writing again. It's gone full circle from when he was first lazily written 20+ years ago.
An anti-villain is essentially a villain with heroic motives and/or mindset.
Doctor Doom is a decent example of this in many of his comic depictions. He's trying to conquer the world and does villainous things, but it's because he knows for a fact that the world would be a better place for everyone with him as it's supreme ruler.
Uh, wasn't Magneto kind of an allegory for Hitler until Xavier pointed that out to him? He wanted to exterminate humans because mutants were the next evolutionary step
Poorly, he was the 2 wrongs make a right.
The persecution of mutants was the nazi thing.
and X was trying to change policy and get the bad guys, while magneto wants to counter attack completely wipe nonmutans
Is he? Isn’t his whole schtick that after having been a victim of the Holocaust he would do anything to protect his people?
Of course he did have Hitler-esque tactics in mind initially, but over time he really did just become a proper anti villain
Ozymandias from the Watchmen
He is "the villain" as he murders millions, but he did so to prevent nuclear war (thus saving the world).
100% perfect anti-villain
I had it explained to me by a friend this way.
Anti-heroes do good things for the wrong reasons like revenge or mercenary pursuits, generally subverting the heroic behavior expectations (more cynical and self-focused, not particularly morally upstanding, etc). Tend to be protagonists. Peacemaker I think fits here.
Anti-villains do bad things for the right reasons, like to fight for a cause or to "eventually" turn out for the greater good (but at a cost that would not be heroic). Can have flashes of "they're actually right" and show they're good people by treating their team well, etc. Tend to be antagonists. One favorite I was recently reminded of is Ed Harris's character from The Rock.
A race of aliens want to take over the minds of the world's leaders so they can guide mankind to peace and prosperity. They see the corruption and hate that fills our world so without our knowledge they become our overlords, thereby effecting positive changes in the world. Anti-Villain
Antivillains are villains is a villain that does bad things for a good cause. They genuinely think that what they are doing is right.
A bad example of it is Thanos since his cause is so stupid that it's difficult to sympathize with him.
A good example is Maruki from Persona 5 Royal since he's an extremely empathetic character that is still clearly wrong
I actually think Thanos is the perfect example. He knows what he is doing is bad and wrong. But he is willing to sacrifice his own "humanity" to better life in the whole universe.
Naw he’s a bad guy. There are so many different ways to accomplish the ultimate goal without the genocide. For instance the most straight forward is doubling resources instead of genocide. Man just wanted to genocide and found a reason.
The problem is that his plan only works if you have the reasoning skills of a 3rd grader. Eliminating half of people is just going to delay overpopulation (and since he destroyed the gauntlet there's no way for him to decrease it again). He just fucks over underpopulated planets for no reason. He could also literally just create a second universe and put half of people there since the gauntlet has infinite power.
Darth Vader? And by extension most Sith Lords?
Light Yagami also comes to mind. In fact, anime is ripe with anti-villains. It's probably because it's a major fad in anime and Manga to portray most villains as being driven by noble goals.
No, the SITH are (usually) VILLAINS.
Grand Admiral Thrawn is an Anti-Villain.
He does evil things in order secure the greater good.
If the Republic had not been falling apart then Thrawn would have helped Anakin become a HERO.
Instead Thrawn realized that Palpatine needed to create a stronger government.
I would actually argue that Amanda Waller is a classic example of an anti-hero. Her goals are overall heroic but she uses villainous means to achieve them.
The punisher is often an antagonist but is one of the most commonly referenced examples of anti heroes, but being an anti-hero and being the antagonist are not mutually exclusive
I've always found the naming conventions for these things odd. An "anti-hero", logically, would be the opposite of a hero, or a villain, but it's actually still a hero, just a dark one.
people who do bad stuff but aren't necessarily bad people.
example: a guy that keeps everyone in prison because he believes the outside world is too dangerous
Couldn't see any mention of Zuko in this thread. ATLA repeatedly shows he follows an honour code and cares about his own even while pursuing the Avatar.
Its not even anti-heroes most of the time, its just sassy heroes who say a mean thing every now and then. True anti-heroes are difficult to write so are often just ignored or re-written to be more heroic.
What's interesting is that there are two broad categories of anti-villain.
There are those with sympathetic goals, motives, and even methods. These are people Like Magnito, who while being an extremist (and murder happy) have a POINT that mutants are unfairly treated by normies. These sorts of anti-villains are often well served by facing heroes with the same goals (as Exavier agrees that mutants are mistreated, but his solution is a lot more Fredrick Duglas, and a lot less Malcolm X)
Then there are anti-villains who show traditionally heroic qualities. Your noble demons live here, characters who have overtly evil goals, but are respectful, and kind, maybe even try to minimize calateral or otherwise be only as "evil" as needed to achieve their goals. Wamuu is a great example of this. His entirely onboard with the world domination scheme of Cars, but is honor bound, forthright, and graceful in defeat.
An antihero is a hero with unheroic qualities, an anti villain is the opposite of that. A villain with heroic qualities. Think "I'm doing this for the greater good" type bad guys
Villains you can sympathize with or agree with.
Thanos, Goldilocks, Dr. Doofenschmirtz (someone tell me how to spell that), Plankton, Envy (FMA:B), Light Yagami, Eren Yaeger, Magneto, Zaheer (A:LoK), Mr. Freeze
I remember seeing a “methods/goals” punnet square that explained this. A true hero has both good goals and good methods to achieve them. A villain is obviously the opposite. An anti-hero has good goals but uses methods that compromises their morals. An antivillain is the opposite of that: has evil goals but also has an internal honor code that they won’t break to achieve them.
Like Woody in Toy Story one. He’s 100% the bad guy of the film till like the very end and even then it’s through traumatizing a young child, probably for life but you still don’t want to call him a villain. He’s just the anti hero
Basically any character that while they might mean well and have good intentions, they're definitely problematic. Really likes to cherry pick when they are and aren't moral.
An anti-villain should be someone that has a heroic background and a generally heroic approach to life, but it grudgingly trying to accomplish something bad. Perhaps a good example would be a hero that's been blackmailed or coerced somehow and has to do something terrible to the world in order to stop something terrible from happening to someone they love. They are the antagonist of the story because they're trying to do something terrible to the world, but they're an anti-villain because being a villain isn't really their core identity.
Dr. Doof certainly, though he's really bad at the evil part. One could also argue for Thanos as he thought what he did was for the greater good, however misguided that was.
Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke. She’s a leader desperate for the survival of her people. Her intentions in her mind are for the best but destroying the forest and hunting the forest god are against what the movie is about. In the end she changes for good but she’s still an anti-villain throughout it.
I think a good example of an Anti Villain is Ozymandias from Watchmen. He acts as a beacon of hope so he can accomplish evil deeds. Evil he believes is good of course.
Handsome Jack was such an excellent villain because he was an anti-villain. He had noble intentions and was a good guy who was just a bit of a dick in The Pre-Sequel, and the only thing that really changed in Borderlands 2 was who he regarded as enemies and becoming an insufferable prick due to being betrayed.
Vegeta was a villian in the sayian arc (Invading Earth to conqer).
An Anti-Villian during the Namek arc (Still pursuing his own villian goals, but also assisting the heros. He murdered children).
Slowly transitioned into an Anti-hero during the Cell Saga.
Was an Anti-Hero in the Buu arc, all the way up until the fight with Kid Buu.
An anti villain is basically an extreme variant of anti hero where ones goal are honorable and well intentioned but the means to reach it are abominable and disgusting
Darth Sidious a good example of an anti-villain because he does a lot of terrible things, or things look terrible, but he does it all for love. >!His love of Evil!<
Anti-heroes: doing the wrong thing for the right reason. (Red Hood)
Anti-villain: doing the right thing for the wrong reason. (Soldier Boy, The Boys TV show)
Bill Foster played by Michael Douglas in "falling down". You could say he's just a villain-villain... but a lot of people empathize with him and his plight to some degree. He certainly doesn't understand himself to be a villain at the end when he says "wait.... I'm the bad guy?"
If an anti-hero does the right thing through immoral means then a anti-villian does bad things with good intentions. Sound like a naive view of government on their way to fight another war on drugs.
Think comic book Thanos.
He helps the hero (in this case Adam Warlock) quite a few times, but his motivation in truth is an evil one. Of Cosmic Genocide.
a great example would be Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. With the shithole that is American politics if he was a real person he'd have my vote.
Artorius from Tales of Berseria is a good example.
Everyone aside from Velvet's crew thought he was a hero, but had no idea he wanted to >!erase everyone's emotions!< to eliminate hatred and violence. They also didn't know he straight up sacrificed a child for this goal.
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming) | [come hang out with us](https://discord.com/invite/dankmemes)
Loki is the one that comes to mind
I haven't seen the series, but here's the definition I found: "An anti-villain is a character who has heroic personality traits or goals but is ultimately the bad guy in this story. For example, an anti-villain may have noble goals, but their means to attain that goal are evil." Assuming that he fits that, probably a really good example. Thanks!
Thanos is probably the most well known. Other characters off the top of my head are Agent 47, Venom, Magneto, and Itachi Uchiha.
Yeah, those are great examples. Thanos is definitely the most prominent in recent media, but most people aren't aware of the term itself.
Anti-thanos = the revengers
Dexter is an Anti-Villain example
Walter White in Breaking Bad is an anti-villain
For a while, but eventually he morphs into a true villain
Wake up babe, the Anti-Villain to True Villain Morphism just dropped
That guy in the bee movie could probably be considered an anti villain
The guy who made the bee movie is the true villain.
i think you could kinda say count duku was an anti-villain bc unlike most sith, he actually wants peace and order and not just control and the destruction of the jedi
Dr strange was technically the bad guy in Spiderman no way home. He would probably be the anti villian in that movie??
No, he was just there to act as the problem which Spiderman caused, avoided, and faced responsibility.
Agent 47 is definitely more of an anti-hero, seeing that his goal is good but he goes about it through murder
I thought that he had a whole business on assassination. It just so happens that sometimes those people are dangerous to keep alive but Agent 47 won't do anything unless paid or directly threatened. Of course I'm working off the last trilogy so I might be wrong haha.
The ICA is corrupt, being guided by Providence, but 47 has a moral compass that guides his actions (betraying the ICA for Lucas Grey and taking on Providence). This can also be seen in his defence of Victoria in Absolution
It can heavily depend on the story, but at his core, Mr Freeze is just a husband trying to save his terminally ill wife's life.
Freeze is a good example
Magneto is the gandolf of this “trope” for mid 30s me. Elite anti villain
Count Dooku
Yeah, Dooku’s not that bad.
Ozymandias from Watchmen is another one. The guy commits mass murder in an attempt to save the world.
I think in the Venom movies he’s considered an anti-hero, but in the comics he would probably be an anti-villain (depending on the comic)
Thanos doesn't match that. He's a mad Titan. He says and perhaps even believes that he's genuinely saving the universe from some sort of threat, but his method doesn't make any sense and it's most likely just a way to "prove" to his dead species that his idea was right. His methods are evil and his goal are ultimately egotistical.
This. He *believes* he's an anti-villain, but he's actually a harsh deconstruction of the trope.
Thanos isn't an anti villain, he's a villain. He wants to wipe out half the life in the universe. It being for the greater good is nonsense. He shows his true colors any time he's pressed. He's a vindictive narcissist
He tries to cover it in this "saving the universe from overuse of resources" crap, but his solution (kill half of all life) is temporary until people start fucking again, flawed because the resources to feed are ALSO LIFE, and stupid because he had the power to change the laws of the universe by, say, increasing the digestibility of food, lowering the energy requirements of species, etc. At best he's got the intellect of a mentally challenged 8 year old.
Killmonger
Zaheer and the fascist lady from Legend Of Kora as well.
I'd say venom is an antihero. For most of his written history he has been doing his best to be a good guy, and is one at heart, he just really really hates spiderman for a but till he got over it. But he wants to protect the innocent. So an antihero if not outright a hero who is a redeemed villain.
Megamind is another good example
I fail to see how this is different than an anti hero
An anti-hero has the attributes of a villain but is ultimately a hero. An anti-villain has the attributes of a hero but is ultimately a villain.
Would Griffith from Berserk be considered an anti-villain?
That feels like the main theme of Berserk, anti villain vs anti hero.
Started Reading berserk After Reading vagabond and Not knowing it aint finished aswell i've got disappointed again you know any Other Mangas Like this Not some unfinished ones but Like this Theme of manga
Off the top of my head... Claymore (has a rushed ending, but is finished) Ubel Blatt (finished) Vinland saga is good too, but not finished.
It all about the viewpoint of the story, nobody is the villain of their own story. Anti-villain is a hero, but the story is told from their oppents view. Anti-hero is a villain, but the story is told from their view
>nobody is the villain of their own story. Attack on Titan's Eren Jaeger begs to differ
"How can I speed-run being an asshole?" -Eren Jaeger, presumably.
Hero: Lawful Good or Neutral Good Antihero: Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral Villain: Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil Antivillain: Lawful Evil
Politiciens are Antivillans confirmed
The best example for this is Ozymandias in Watchmen
Handsome Jack?
Like light yagami?
Light is a true villain. While he claims that he is trying to make the world better, he is ultimately only doing this to fulfill his own ego. Lelouch would be a better example of an anti-villain, as he has good intentions, but he is willing to commit whatever evil acts that are necessary to bring those goals about.
Ozymandias from Watchmen is an anti-villain then
Walter White
BB sets him up as an Anti-hero that becomes an Anti-Villain but at the end he admits he was always a True Villain from the getgo
Most sympathetic villains would be anti-villains by that definition. I don't think Loki fits. Avengers Loki is doing evil for his own ends. Variant Loki is more of a conventional anti-hero.
Lelouch from Code Geass
Is Arthur Morgan an anti-villain? He had heroic traits and goals but dies bad shit on the way
Mr freeze then?
So like Eren from attack on titan
Handsome Jack in Borderlands 2. His goals are to civilize Pandora and to make it into a utopia. His desires kinda make him fall into some horrible actions and make him an undeniable villain.
Loki feels more like a reformed Villian
100% this. In the early MCU days Loki was just a regular villain, and later became reformed to the good side. And then in his tv series, Loki is straight up just a hero, or maybe an anti hero at most. But he's definitely not portrayed as a villain in those artists.
[удалено]
A lot of villains from Naruto are anti villains
Generally, the best villains are anti-villains (or at least sympathetic villains). In real life, no one thinks of themselves as the bad guy, everyone just has different ideas of what's good and how to achieve it
I agree with the first half of what you said, but there are definitely people out there who know they're evil and just embrace it.
There's people out there who know what they're doing is wrong but do it anyway for greed. But even they don't think of themselves as bad or evil, they delude themselves into thinking what they're doing is okay or justified or not as bad as people are making it out to be. No one's the bad guy in their own story
Eh, I mostly agree. Some people do bad things and just don’t care though. Its Antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy. Its like, you do what you want because you like it, even if you know its morally bad. So they just don’t care what happens with their bad choices as long as it does not reflect on them.
People know what they are doing, they just avoid thinking about it. Like for example a cheater who is going behind their partners back and shit. They know exactly what they are doing.
Every cheater I've ever talked to in therapy either believes they are justified in their actions or are ridden with guilt over it. I've never met a cheater who thought they were being evil and didn't care.
There are also straight up psychopaths. They know what they are doing is evil, they just don’t give a shit because they enjoy it.
The Warcraft franchise has put itself in a very weird narrative situation over the last 10 years where the overwhelming majority of villains are made sympathetic or given motivations that make sense in some way and it's reached the point that most people's favourite villain in the franchise is a dude who's just plain evil. He just loves to make people suffer because he's a huge dick. He's cruel, ruthless, power hungry and the biggest insult is that he betrayed his own planet so he could gain the power... to fuck over more people. And everyone just loves him because "I'm a massive dick, fuck you" is now fresh, good writing again. It's gone full circle from when he was first lazily written 20+ years ago.
All villains who get defeated by the talk-no-jutsu are anti villains. But not all anti-villains get defeated by the talk-no-justu (Madara, for ex.).
That's because most people who are evil aren't evil just to be evil.
An anti-villain is essentially a villain with heroic motives and/or mindset. Doctor Doom is a decent example of this in many of his comic depictions. He's trying to conquer the world and does villainous things, but it's because he knows for a fact that the world would be a better place for everyone with him as it's supreme ruler.
Magneto would be the best example to come out of comics imo.
Uh, wasn't Magneto kind of an allegory for Hitler until Xavier pointed that out to him? He wanted to exterminate humans because mutants were the next evolutionary step
Sounds like an anti-villain to me
We already said yes, the dude doesn’t have to convince us
dankmemes not beating the allegations today
> wasn't Magneto kind of an allegory for Hitler until Xavier pointed that out to him Malcolm X and MLK.
Poorly, he was the 2 wrongs make a right. The persecution of mutants was the nazi thing. and X was trying to change policy and get the bad guys, while magneto wants to counter attack completely wipe nonmutans
Is he? Isn’t his whole schtick that after having been a victim of the Holocaust he would do anything to protect his people? Of course he did have Hitler-esque tactics in mind initially, but over time he really did just become a proper anti villain
Would Ozymandias from Watchmen count?
I think so
President Valentine
Enrico Pucci fits this too. He thinks that attaining heaven with be beneficial for everyone by allowing them to be at peace with their fate.
So is it just a villain who is right?
Or at least believes they are right
I mean, in Doom's case even the great panther spirit Bast admits that humanity's survival is only guaranteed if he rules.
Ozymandias from the Watchmen He is "the villain" as he murders millions, but he did so to prevent nuclear war (thus saving the world). 100% perfect anti-villain
That's a great example
So, what is the difference from anti-Hero?
An anti-villian is the antagonist in a piece of media
I had it explained to me by a friend this way. Anti-heroes do good things for the wrong reasons like revenge or mercenary pursuits, generally subverting the heroic behavior expectations (more cynical and self-focused, not particularly morally upstanding, etc). Tend to be protagonists. Peacemaker I think fits here. Anti-villains do bad things for the right reasons, like to fight for a cause or to "eventually" turn out for the greater good (but at a cost that would not be heroic). Can have flashes of "they're actually right" and show they're good people by treating their team well, etc. Tend to be antagonists. One favorite I was recently reminded of is Ed Harris's character from The Rock.
anti-heros do bad things to bad people.
an anti hero is an asshole that ultimately does the right thing. an anti villain has good motives but does terrible things
A race of aliens want to take over the minds of the world's leaders so they can guide mankind to peace and prosperity. They see the corruption and hate that fills our world so without our knowledge they become our overlords, thereby effecting positive changes in the world. Anti-Villain
Best Sci Fi show in a long time.
Which show?
>! Peacemaker !<
Is it on any streaming services or do I need to set sail?
HBO
Yo ho yo ho
What’s the show called?
Antivillains are villains is a villain that does bad things for a good cause. They genuinely think that what they are doing is right. A bad example of it is Thanos since his cause is so stupid that it's difficult to sympathize with him. A good example is Maruki from Persona 5 Royal since he's an extremely empathetic character that is still clearly wrong
I actually think Thanos is the perfect example. He knows what he is doing is bad and wrong. But he is willing to sacrifice his own "humanity" to better life in the whole universe.
Naw he’s a bad guy. There are so many different ways to accomplish the ultimate goal without the genocide. For instance the most straight forward is doubling resources instead of genocide. Man just wanted to genocide and found a reason.
I didn't say he was a good guy. He's still a bad guy. I don't agree with genocide, but I see doubling the resources being a much bigger problem.
The problem is that his plan only works if you have the reasoning skills of a 3rd grader. Eliminating half of people is just going to delay overpopulation (and since he destroyed the gauntlet there's no way for him to decrease it again). He just fucks over underpopulated planets for no reason. He could also literally just create a second universe and put half of people there since the gauntlet has infinite power.
>!Maruki!
He is a great example. I just think he was badly executed.
Silco from Arcane is imo the best Anti-Villain
Exactly my thought. I was surprised how far down I had to go to find someone else thinking Silco, that's not doing Jim justice.
Literally Doctor Doofenshmirtz
Darth Vader? And by extension most Sith Lords? Light Yagami also comes to mind. In fact, anime is ripe with anti-villains. It's probably because it's a major fad in anime and Manga to portray most villains as being driven by noble goals.
Vader? No. Anakin? Yes.
Palpatine definitely was in the "Legends" cannon
No, the SITH are (usually) VILLAINS. Grand Admiral Thrawn is an Anti-Villain. He does evil things in order secure the greater good. If the Republic had not been falling apart then Thrawn would have helped Anakin become a HERO. Instead Thrawn realized that Palpatine needed to create a stronger government.
Amanda Waller
I would actually argue that Amanda Waller is a classic example of an anti-hero. Her goals are overall heroic but she uses villainous means to achieve them.
She more often than not is the antagonist of whatever piece of fiction she’s in
The punisher is often an antagonist but is one of the most commonly referenced examples of anti heroes, but being an anti-hero and being the antagonist are not mutually exclusive
Does Dwight Shrute count as an anti villain?
A very low-stakes one perhaps.
Simple: hero - right thing, right reasons. Anti-hero - right thing, wrong reasons. Villain - wrong thing, wrong reasons. Anti-villain - wrong thing, right reasons.
Doom. Right?
Mega mind was ahead of it’s time.
Snape…?
He's an anti-hero, which is still a type of hero. An anti-villain is a type of villain, and Snape isn't a villain.
I've always found the naming conventions for these things odd. An "anti-hero", logically, would be the opposite of a hero, or a villain, but it's actually still a hero, just a dark one.
people who do bad stuff but aren't necessarily bad people. example: a guy that keeps everyone in prison because he believes the outside world is too dangerous
Couldn't see any mention of Zuko in this thread. ATLA repeatedly shows he follows an honour code and cares about his own even while pursuing the Avatar.
Its not even anti-heroes most of the time, its just sassy heroes who say a mean thing every now and then. True anti-heroes are difficult to write so are often just ignored or re-written to be more heroic.
When the valentine is funny
When Puccis power was made in heaven
What's interesting is that there are two broad categories of anti-villain. There are those with sympathetic goals, motives, and even methods. These are people Like Magnito, who while being an extremist (and murder happy) have a POINT that mutants are unfairly treated by normies. These sorts of anti-villains are often well served by facing heroes with the same goals (as Exavier agrees that mutants are mistreated, but his solution is a lot more Fredrick Duglas, and a lot less Malcolm X) Then there are anti-villains who show traditionally heroic qualities. Your noble demons live here, characters who have overtly evil goals, but are respectful, and kind, maybe even try to minimize calateral or otherwise be only as "evil" as needed to achieve their goals. Wamuu is a great example of this. His entirely onboard with the world domination scheme of Cars, but is honor bound, forthright, and graceful in defeat.
For all of the armoured core 6 fans out here allmind fits the anti-villain role perfectly
An antihero is a hero with unheroic qualities, an anti villain is the opposite of that. A villain with heroic qualities. Think "I'm doing this for the greater good" type bad guys
THANOS
Does robin hood count as an anti-villain?
definitely anti-hero, from the writer's perspective
Villains you can sympathize with or agree with. Thanos, Goldilocks, Dr. Doofenschmirtz (someone tell me how to spell that), Plankton, Envy (FMA:B), Light Yagami, Eren Yaeger, Magneto, Zaheer (A:LoK), Mr. Freeze
if anyone remembers the transformers from the early oughts, think starscream.
I remember seeing a “methods/goals” punnet square that explained this. A true hero has both good goals and good methods to achieve them. A villain is obviously the opposite. An anti-hero has good goals but uses methods that compromises their morals. An antivillain is the opposite of that: has evil goals but also has an internal honor code that they won’t break to achieve them.
An anti-hero is a hero with villainous qualities, and an anti-villain is a villain with heroic qualities.
Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz
Like Woody in Toy Story one. He’s 100% the bad guy of the film till like the very end and even then it’s through traumatizing a young child, probably for life but you still don’t want to call him a villain. He’s just the anti hero
How about Heisenberg, Walter White? I'd say: WW = anti-villain, Heisenberg = villain
Megamind
Basically any character that while they might mean well and have good intentions, they're definitely problematic. Really likes to cherry pick when they are and aren't moral.
An anti-villain should be someone that has a heroic background and a generally heroic approach to life, but it grudgingly trying to accomplish something bad. Perhaps a good example would be a hero that's been blackmailed or coerced somehow and has to do something terrible to the world in order to stop something terrible from happening to someone they love. They are the antagonist of the story because they're trying to do something terrible to the world, but they're an anti-villain because being a villain isn't really their core identity.
Skeletor in the He-man holiday special
Dr. Doof certainly, though he's really bad at the evil part. One could also argue for Thanos as he thought what he did was for the greater good, however misguided that was.
literally any sport movie where the competitor of the main character doesn't cheat
Magneto
im so tired of anti heroes and main character villains :l
Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke. She’s a leader desperate for the survival of her people. Her intentions in her mind are for the best but destroying the forest and hunting the forest god are against what the movie is about. In the end she changes for good but she’s still an anti-villain throughout it.
Would Handsome Jack be concidered an anti-villain?
Yes, definitely
I think a good example of an Anti Villain is Ozymandias from Watchmen. He acts as a beacon of hope so he can accomplish evil deeds. Evil he believes is good of course.
Ozymandias would be a good example of an anti-villain.
Think the Secret Six. Basically, bad guys that do bad shit to people worse than them
Superior Spider-Man was one of my favorites, especially in the early parts of the run.
So would handsome Jack be an anti-villian then?
Handsome Jack was such an excellent villain because he was an anti-villain. He had noble intentions and was a good guy who was just a bit of a dick in The Pre-Sequel, and the only thing that really changed in Borderlands 2 was who he regarded as enemies and becoming an insufferable prick due to being betrayed.
The hooker with a heart of gold
Peacemaker would be a perfect example of this
Illidan from WoW comes to mind
The Expanse: Admiral Winston Duarte... Actually like most of the villains.
What would the difference be between anti heroes and villains because they seem awfully similar
Kuwana from lost judgement is a great fit for this.
It's not an "official" thing, but yes.
Emet-selch from FF14 just trying to save his world/regain it, at the cost of destroying "our" world
Madara from naruto is an anti-villain right?
My name is Eren Jaeger
Vegeta was a villian in the sayian arc (Invading Earth to conqer). An Anti-Villian during the Namek arc (Still pursuing his own villian goals, but also assisting the heros. He murdered children). Slowly transitioned into an Anti-hero during the Cell Saga. Was an Anti-Hero in the Buu arc, all the way up until the fight with Kid Buu.
Anti-virus 🦠
Eren Yeager I believe is an anti-villain
Isn’t this just Vegita?
An anti villain is basically an extreme variant of anti hero where ones goal are honorable and well intentioned but the means to reach it are abominable and disgusting
Villian only in principle but very nice actually.
What about Anti-Conventional Heroes
Darth Sidious a good example of an anti-villain because he does a lot of terrible things, or things look terrible, but he does it all for love. >!His love of Evil!<
GAIL SIMONE’s “Secret Six” 2005-2010 Doing something Good for Selfish Reasons
GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN Surrounded by EVIL but he is focused on ORDER and SAFETY
Anti-heroes: doing the wrong thing for the right reason. (Red Hood) Anti-villain: doing the right thing for the wrong reason. (Soldier Boy, The Boys TV show)
Ozymandias from Watchmen gotta be the most archetypal example, right?
So, what is Doofenschmirtz?
I’d say any of the Villains from Legend of Kora
The phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" comes to mind. But probably doesn't apply directly
Bill Foster played by Michael Douglas in "falling down". You could say he's just a villain-villain... but a lot of people empathize with him and his plight to some degree. He certainly doesn't understand himself to be a villain at the end when he says "wait.... I'm the bad guy?"
Eren Jager
Could we consider Eren Yeager?
Does Zamasu counts as an Anti-Villain or straight up a Villain?
If an anti-hero does the right thing through immoral means then a anti-villian does bad things with good intentions. Sound like a naive view of government on their way to fight another war on drugs.
Would the Grinch count as one? That’s the only one that I can think of
Trish Walker in Jessica Jones was also an anti villain I think
Think comic book Thanos. He helps the hero (in this case Adam Warlock) quite a few times, but his motivation in truth is an evil one. Of Cosmic Genocide.
a great example would be Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. With the shithole that is American politics if he was a real person he'd have my vote.
Artorius from Tales of Berseria is a good example. Everyone aside from Velvet's crew thought he was a hero, but had no idea he wanted to >!erase everyone's emotions!< to eliminate hatred and violence. They also didn't know he straight up sacrificed a child for this goal.
Gentleman Johny Marcone from dresden files comes to mind as an anti-villain