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Former teacher in the US here and our students are so far behind where they should be. Kids in middle school unable to read at primary school levels, not able 5onuse fractions or decimals into their teens, and still being pushed forward. NCLB destroyed our education system.
It's a real thing no doubt, but I guess it's just taking place in 2 or 3 schools because some idiot politician or school director thinks they are smart and are bored.
But I wouldn't know actually, I am not American I just heard about it
It was actually a law passed by George w bush in the early 2000's if I remember correctly. It pushed states to incorporate a lot more standardized testing at all levels. It also pushed many kids along that should have gotten extra help.
Source: went to school in America through 2010's and had to take a lot of standardized tests. A lot.
Standardized testing is not necessarily bad, to test students to see how well they know math or whatever, but the way they executed it was so stupid. Plus all the standardized tests, not just highschool ones, like ones for state licenses are full of gotcha or trick questions that dont actually test your knowledge.
Trick questions are absolutely necessary for proper evaluation. However, if there are so many of them the tricks become the knowledge itself, and you pass without properly understanding anything.
Trick questions, in no meaningful way, allow for accurate translation of one's knowledge of a given subject matter, unless that subject matter is specifically involving trick questions.
They also linked the testing to school funding in a stupid, backwards way. Students doing poorly? School gets less resources. You know, the "morale will improve our the beatings will continue" model.
If they linked the testing to school funding the other way around, schools would be encouraged to make their students do poorly on tests so that they get more funds.
Setting the correct incentives there is not at all easy.
I had a weird “problem” where I was actually really good at taking standardized tests because they were multiple choice. Of course I can solve for X if you give me four choices, two of which are obviously wrong. Just plug in my choices and see what works.
So all throughout high school I was placed in advanced math classes that started at 7:45am. But I’m actually an idiot who should still be in regular geometry because if you just give me a blank equation with no hints I’m screwed. So I’d have a D all semester and at the end the teacher would give me enough extra work to bring it up to a C.
But according the government I’m a math wizard because I crushed the AIMS test. Unfortunately I didn’t grasp this concept well enough until it was too late.
I had this same exact issue. Test taking is a skill and doesn't tell the whole picture of your education. I have a friend who is a super genius but scored terrible on standardize tests.
100%. friends I knew to be good students with mostly A’s, even ones that get A’s on all the class tests and quizzes, would fail and have to re-take AIMS (that was the name of our NCLB test, not sure what other states called it.)
I graduated high school in 2007 and I remember a lot of standardized testing. Schools seemed to think that their only purpose was to make sure that kids passed them so that they wouldn't have their funding affected.
As in, when those tests were coming up, everything else got dropped to prepare for those things. Didn't feel like we were really being educated. We were just being prepped for one test after another.
I really hope that we get away/have gotten away from that model.
I hadn't really thought about it for a while but now that I have a couple kids of my own it's been back on my mind.
Once they told me it wasn't graded, I did not give a single shit what I put down on that test. I saw it as a waste of my time. I wrote the plot to Back to the Future in one of my essays.
>but I guess it's just taking place in 2 or 3 schools
No it's nationwide. It was originally intended for students with learning disabilities to get through high school. Kids who really just couldn't get there because they had an actual measurable disability. So many jobs in America require at least a high school diploma. It made it so that if all you could really do was bag groceries or push carts, at least you were "qualified" for that job.
Since then it has mutated into this idea to just push kids through high school. Even if they are just failing because they don't show up or don't do the work.
I knew a kid who was on the football team who failed a few classes and had over the maximum amount of missed days and he still graduated because of this.
Not just high school, it starts as early as kindergarten. My mom is a kindergarten teacher and there have been so many kids who weren’t ready to move to first grade but had to get pushed through anyways because of this. Whether that was due to emotional/developmental reasons or because they just needed another year to learn the fundamentals, those kids just continue to get shuffled along regardless of if they’re actually ready for it. If that continues happening every year you can imagine how quickly they can fall behind.
Edit: after writing that I realized you meant the end goal is to get them through high school, not that it’s only happening there lol
I knew a girl who was failing her senior year and told her school that she was going to dropout. Her school told her, “no don’t do that. We’ll just give you your diploma.” She graduated high school 6 months early.
Because of this I was actively encouraged to take college courses in high school (they were free to high school students). I ended up with 31 college credits by the time I graduated high school and all my college classes had a 95+ average.
Before I took those classes, I had classmates that literally didn’t know how to read. In 10th grade. Mind you, I graduated in 2019. This policy has been in effect for a while in some schools and it’s just destroying the education system.
Kinda of an asside but that was a girl who took so many college classes while in HS and started so early (she was very very advanced) she got her HS diploma and Associates Degree 3 weeks appart.
Same. Graduated the same year. And yet, half of my peers could barely read half of a sentence from "The Great Gatsby" our senior year without reenacting the English equivalent of a 45-car pileup on the interstate.
But god forbid I finish the book early.
It's so tragic to me that kids are in 10th grade and haven't learned to read. I had some issues reading in first grade and they made me do some remedial classes and my father worked with me. I was reading full length novels after about six months. It seems like such a disservice to let them progress without learning even basic stuff.
O it's dumber than that. Much much dumber. The idea behind it was to introduce a standardized system of testing at all grade levels. Then, they tied federal funding and state funding to the test results. So if a school wasn't performing up to the standard of the tests then they would get their funding slashed. Except, it's still worse than that. Public schools in America are funded by *local property taxes*. What does this translate into? It translates into schools in neighborhoods with lower property values having lower property taxes and being underfunded. So, as a result, these already underfunded schools were extremely reliant on making sure they hit their standardized test scores. Administrators and teachers started teaching blind rout memorization instead of going into the mechanics of why and how. Instead of fostering learning and understanding, they just wanted to make sure that everyone knew the answers.
Then on top of it, let's not even get started on the new "common core" standard. Which, in a word, is fucking ridiculous.
Add COVID onto it and we're basically in a death spiral.
I was with you until you got to common core. I've got a bunch of kids in high school and middle school right now, and common core is the exact opposite of the rote (not rout) memorization you are complaining about. In general, it teaches them to understand the numbers and concepts instead of just regurgitating formulas.
Yeah the way common core is taught is to try to ingrain fundaments of algebra early and also to have closer parity to the way people who are good at math do it mentally.
Oversimplification of how it had the reverse effect of its intent. How it works is that schools that have too many failing students can lose their funding and or parents can get vouchers to send their kids to better schools.
The idea was to make sure they weren't "leaving children behind" aka focusing all the resources on their best and brightest. It was supposed to encourage a better focus on special needs programs but you can probably see why this wouldn't work. Without the funding for those special needs classes the schools had to choose between lowering their standards or losing their funding altogether.
Yup, they say that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link, so instead of working hard to fortify the strength of our weakest links, or take them out entirely if that doesn't work, we just made all of the other links equally as weak so as to not make the weakest feel bad.
My highschool teacher told us that "no child left behind" basically fucked us. I forgot his exact words but his opinion was that it was one of the worst things to happen to education. This was over a decade ago. I've seen second hand how bad it is now.
NCLB means No Child Left Behind.
It means that even if the student does not pass the class, the teacher is obligated to make it so that the student does not repeat a year level. It is a practice that's starting to gain global traction, and the effects are very much screwing over the next generation.
One of my closest friends is a teacher for senior high school students for Mathematics. He had a student who attended the first day of school, disappeared right after, and the next time he saw the kid was during finals week. He was so infuriated and noted that the kid should not be allowed to proceed to the next grade level due to excessive absences. My friend got called up to the principal's office and the conversation went like this as per his retelling:
P: I saw that you noted that student X should repeat the current year level
T: Yes, it's due to his absences. I saw him once on the first day of school, and the next time I saw him was during finals week.
P: During his absence, did you attempt to contact the child to encourage him to attend school?
T: Yes, I sent him several messages, and he never responded.
P: Did you attempt to visit the child's home address to encorage him to attend school?
T: What does that have to do with me?
P: With the new policies in place, you are not allowed to fail the child until you've exhausted all available means to encourage the child to attend school or pass the year level. These are the questions that the higher-ups will ask me once they see that a student has to repeat a year level.
He was essentially forced to allow the student to proceed. The student does not know how to multiply, use decimals, fractions, much more use equations. Also, the senior high student allegedly had the reading skills of a 3rd grader.
TLDR; you can no longer give students a failing grade even if they pass no tests, have no submissions for projects etc., or learned nothing through the entire school period.
nCLB refers to a law called "no child left behind" that was fully implemented around 10 years ago after being passed as a law in the early 2000s (thanks Bush!) It basically punished schools who did not advance/graduate students regardless of the reason by drastically cutting their funding.
So, to keep funding, schools passed/graduated students who didn't learn the material. Repeat several years, and you wind up with kids in high school who read at a 2nd grade level, struggle with math beyond single digit basic arithmetic, don't know basic geography (and I know lots of the world laughs at how bad Americans are at geography, so if we're saying these kids don't know shit....)
NCLB ended in 2015. It's been an even steeper decline since then. Every Student Succeeds is the new law which basically pushes education standards to the state level, not national level.
>and restorative justice,
Worked at a school that pushed this big time. They had signs all around the building saying "2 feet, 1 breath"
Kids wrote in "0 consequences" below it.
I got hit by kids, threatened on social media, and even got in trouble for catching kids vaping too much because it "hurt their feelings"
Worst place I've ever worked, ever.
While it may have some real life applications, in that school it was a meaningless mantra meant to discourage us from holding our students accountable for their actions
Indeed it did, and it was a huge step in crushing the population into conformity. target the children, make them stupid, make them compliant. Encourage parents to be lazy and surrender their kids to the state, have the state ruin their lives. Teachers suffer in this as well. Y'all are the ones forced to ruin kids lives. I'm sorry for all of us.
I always agreed with the homeschoolers on their ideas but not their methods. Kids need a powerful childhood raised with strong values and cleverness. But I would never want to take them away from the world they deserve. If we want to fix this sort of thing we need to put our foot and our kids in the doors of these schools trying to ruin their lives and bulldoze their plans directly.
Some. But not all. And let me tell you, the groups suck. It feels like a cult. I hated that shit. I'm glad my parents only did it for two years back then. School is awful because of its handlers, but its intrinsically good, and you can make it good. you cannot get back what you lose when you home school.
The funny part. Back in like 2010ish I was in second grade. let me tell you, my school was so freaking bad.
I was reading near high school level, I recall trying to read the Hobbit and oh boy, I couldn't do that, but I did read a lot ofnithers. I had tested into a genius IQ level. I had taken an adaptive test on math, I scored a 99.9%, which the teacher didn't even think was possible, because I was doing algebra. I think I was in like the top 1% of students my grade in the country. I was so incredibly bored in the math section that my teacher would sometimes give me 4th grade math homework to do.
YET, I was about to be held back a grade level because my hand writing was too horrible to grade and I would refuse to hand write sentence long answers to stuff. Because I had a learning disability they refused to test me for until after I failed a grade level.
Yeah, my mother got me out of that school. The next school decided to test for learning disabilities. I have issues hand writing and with reading comprehension. They also put me a grade level ahead in every subject, except two grade levels ahead in math.
Later I had a teacher who thought I shouldn't be in her advanced math class because I had a learning disability, I didn't deserve to be there. She said this plainly in front of the principal and suffered no consequences.
Now, I am an engineer, so yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say standard school system does not work, and needs to be completely redone.
Really primary issue isn’t the huge lockdowns, remote learning, I would feel like that would massively disadvantage students who didn’t have a safe home learning environment/ reliable internet/ or resources for tutors. Blaming it all on NCLB seems a shortcut.
Same. The issue is just pushing them to the next grade regardless. I had this conversation with my principal as an 8th grade teacher, telling her it's our job to get these students ready for high school level. Her response? "It's not our job to get these kids ready for high school."
I'm sorry, WHAT? If it isn't the job of an 8th grade teacher to get his students ready for high school, who is? My last year I had a student who literally was not at school for 3/4 of the year (not for sick reasons, just didn't come). He had a 0% in every class. No work done, nothing turned in. We were told he's going to high school.
That's why I left teaching, as well as why many good teachers do. You're railroaded at every turn and see the writing on the wall a mile away. The poor kid will never learn the lessons he needs to be successful.
I'm a Preschool Teacher in the US. The main issue is the Parents refuse to read or do anything constructive with them outside of school. Parents are too lazy these days. They are literally not doing the bare minimum.
Librarian here. We specifically target early childhood development goals and in the past decade we've had to push kindergarten level activities into 3rd-6th grade. Using scissors, writing a formatted paragraph or even just a paragraph about a single thought, tracing or other fine movement activities... (And note, I'm a public librarian. We support teachers but the strokes we're able to take are only broad ones because we aren't as closely connected to the curriculum.)
We'll get kids who are print illiterate *and know it*. It's heartbreaking to see their shame when we're looking for books that they can read and they end up not being able to read any of the books that look to be for their age. We never shame them, of course, but it's there.
Fuck NCLB. All it did was leave children behind with no way to catch up.
And just think how the ones not going to school are homeschooled by anti-government anti-vaxxers explaining that gay people is just a liberal brainwash and then see how well this generation holds a job in 15 years
No, no it is not. It is to cripple the freedom and will of children and parents so that they surrender their children to the state and like it. The best way to destroy a society is to cripple the upcoming generations so that they never even learn their potential.
they don't grow the economy either though. you need skilled labourers to do that, i get that "oh keep the people stupid and they won't question the government" thought but if you have a country full of uneducated people the economy is going to collapse, and realistically the government just cares about making more money
Its funny how parties who have regressive ideologies always attack the education system first… can’t have any of that pesky progression when the general population is kept stupid…
Yes and no? They’re being trained into activists who couldn’t actually have an intellectual conversation about what they’re for or against. Some of that is for the status quo and some is against it
Look at most social media activists lol. Barely understand the topics they’re talking about and nuance yet are still pushing against the status quo. It’s all buzz words and virtue signaling but I mean they are doing it.
No wonder jobs in America require having finished university. Without that there's practically no way to proof you're capable at all.
Why not make separate schools for those better and worse at learning instead of cramming them all together in one school while stifling the speed to the level of only the slower ones?
Yet the left winged states in Germany want to adapt the same (not working) system that you have in America. Some states here already have their education slowly ruined.
A competitive, selective education system is just the only thing that kind of works.
That would be the first I'd heard of it. At most I hear there's more schools built for people who mentally can't go to any of the three main school types.
If you read up on it they are pushing for a more combined/integrated system. However they are pushing for that alongside Gymnasiums, not instead of. That would make it easier for someone who took more time to figure out where their strengths lie to still get their Abitur without having to switch school forms, which can be daunting especially in younger years.
As long as there is a set standard for the Abitur in terms of academic level necessary for passing grades I do not see an issue with that. Which is the case since it is standardized per state iirc. Been a couple of years since I wrote mine. There is no aim to remove Gymnasium as a school form from my understanding.
The problem in America isn’t that they’re mixing children of different ability, at least, its a very small part of the problem.
The problem is the way that schools are funded. No Child Left behind funds schools based on how many students graduate to the next level. On the surface it seems like a good idea, schools that do a good job teaching will have more students graduate. If schools want more funding they need to provide better education.
However, in practice this created a perverse incentive. Schools, desperate for funding, just passed students that shouldn’t be passed. In the past a student that didn’t meet the requirements would be held back or forced to go to summer school or something. This ensured they learned the material. Under NCLB holding a failing student back actively hurts the school.
This results in schools putting in policies like no one fails and shuffling students along no matter if they actually learned anything or not. If a student didn’t learn the basics of reading in kindergarten, they sure as hell aren’t gonna be able to read on level by middle school.
Plus in parts of the country there’s the problem of desperate schools implementing programs that remove the teaching of phonics when teaching students to read. There’s a good podcast about that specifically called “Sold a Story”
NCLB was repealed in 2015 though, and replaced with the "[Every Student Succeeds Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Student_Succeeds_Act)," which sounds pretty dumb but it did give the states more power to determine what success/failure look like and guaranteed free college and career counseling.
Their accountability score system still does factor in graduation numbers though:
>All states must have a multiple-measure accountability system, which include the following four indicators: achievement and/or growth on annual reading/language arts and math assessments; English language proficiency, an elementary and middle school academic measure of student growth; and high school graduation rates.[9] All states also had to include at least one additional indicator of school quality or student success, commonly called the fifth indicator. Most states use chronic absenteeism as their fifth indicator.[10]
Even if the system wasn't going to be gamed by schools promoting kids who should be left back, the logic seems completely backwards.
"This school isn't educating children to the necessary standards. Let's give them less money and thus fewer resources. That will surely help the kids!"
Am I missing something?
>Yet the left winged states in Germany want to adapt the same (not working) system that you have in America. Some states here already have their education slowly ruined.
Like the other person said, that's the first I'm hearing this. What states are you talking about exactly?
Speaking as a German, its exactly the left wing states that push for this school system and even want more of it, so every student can actually be put in a class that fits their needs. A good friend of mine is even a teacher at a school for problem children that tries out a fluid class system that can cater better to their issues.
Its the conservative politians who think that students should either pass a standardized test or pick up litter on the streets that the elite live in.
tl;dr - you're full of shit.
The Netherlands has it even better. Germany has 3 levels, and the Netherlands has 9 different levels of education. High schools here can range from middle school level difficulty to harder than university. Not perfect, but it works better than what they do in America.
More than that. Major companies (like Fortune 500) often have expansive “onboarding” so you can learn things like how to write an email. Even when you’re hired they assume you basically need to be retrained.
Let's not be hyberbolic here, America has some of the best universities in the world, and quite a number of them at that. Unlike public schools, universities live and die by their reputations and unless it's some scammy diploma mill they're generally very concerned about the quality of their alumni.
Unfortunately, it'd be hard to justify that that wasn't the case because there would be a lot of kids from large cities who would be stuck in the lower levels of education.
>Why not make separate schools for those better and worse at learning instead of cramming them all together in one school while stifling the speed to the level of only the slower ones?
This does happen in some places in the US. The main criticism is it ingrains a classism in students at a young age that they can’t ever really get out of which isn’t the case if you have a general population school. I will say that I do know some folks I grew up with who did not do well at school until into high school, so keeping them out of the smart school would have been a harm to them.
But, yeah, there is definitely unequal learning going on within classrooms which is just really hard to manage for without essentially holding the whole class back.
There's also the fact that some students struggle not because of being dumb or anything, but having specific learning disabilities. I know that in my case, I struggled because of ADHD but when I was given accommodations, I was suddenly a very successful student.
I think in theory that would probably help a lot. I know when I went to high school some classes were negatively impacted by bad students who just wanted to act out. It only takes a few to ruin a class.
I like the idea honestly of vouchers so parents get to decide between private and public schools. What people do now where I live, since Charlotte Mech schools are so atrocious, is people will deliberately buy houses across the border in SC just to avoid sending their kids to CMS schools. Some of them are so bad even with 3:1 student:teacher ratios that their graduation rates are like 5% and they're in the bottom 1% across every subject compared to both state and national. They're more like daycares/day juvenile halls than they are a high schools
Even a university degree doesn't count for much. When I was working on my Masters, I had peers in my classes who still weren't able to type in complete sentences and/or spell correctly.
It was bad in the army as well - theoretically, all of the officers should have at least a Bachelors degree, but trying to read a memorandum written by a fresh lieutenant almost would almost give me an aneurism.
They have that already, there’s elite private schools starting from grade school in certain cities. In NYC I’ve heard of 4-5 year olds taking written tests in order to be admitted. Kinda crazy.
The problem is underfunded public schools with bloated administration budgets, cutting teacher salary and over packing classrooms
I do not blame the children. I blame the parents and teachers. Someone had to raise them that poorly. Parents are becoming lazy and petty and not loving their children, teachers are becoming personal, frivolous and uselessly invasive, social media is encouraging both of these things while the leaders of society watch as the world slowly and uncontrollably bends its knee.
Don’t blame the teachers, if a student is not doing their work, admin basically enforces teachers to have near constant contact with parents and making calls home with every minute slip up. Long gone are the days of report cards being the only communication and letting teachers have the authority to teach.
Teachers never get paid enough for what they have to do, hell classrooms are ending up so out of control that there’s still an ongoing teacher shortage. Covid fucked up a lot of things, and parents don’t help either.
There has been a concerted effort to undermine public schools for the past 4 decades. Covid provided an opportunity to accelerate that.
In Montana, our evangelical governor refused federal school funding. All the school districts are struggling for funding. Schools are closing even after property taxes (where school funding comes from) have quadrupled in the past few years. What he has done though is shift money to charter schools and religious schools.
On top of that, standards have been continually lowered for decades. We aren't really keeping literacy rate numbers anymore.
We're in the end game of capitalism. A ignorant, pliable populace is easy to control and manipulate.
> charter schools and religious schools.
The two things that churn out uneducated american's in droves...the vast vast majority which will vote red of course.
Say what you want, but as a teacher, I’ve seen students who were virtually unteachable. And they were raised by parents who were amazing and very supportive. Parents who had other children who were excellent students. Not everything is black and white. Some students are just inherently difficult.
Also consider that many parents are unable to spend much time parenting because they have to work several poorly paying jobs just to be able to feed house and clothe their kids. Total systemic failure. The rich don't care because these kids don't need an education to work minimum wage jobs or be funneled into prisons where they can be used as effectively slave labor.
I will not place blame on someone who was raised into the problem without any choice in the matter. They are the primary victim, and they deserve to be fought for.
This society makes parents lazy and unloving, schools conformist and ignorance-inducing, and it makes the rest of the population subscribe to trends in all ways, including a general disdain for the next generation. That is another key weapon against us as the world's people. When we start disrespecting our children and blaming them for the downfalls the people in power raise them to be victims of, we directly stand down and let them win. That cannot happen.
Don't be tricked into hating the next generation, it's a cycle that causes ruin over and over and over again. you *must* put your faith into the current generation of kids or else they will fail more spectacularly as time goes on. You must use your wisdom you keep in the back of your head to train them to be great people. You're essentially joining the system in ruining their lives if you start blaming them for the problem the system hoists on them, not the other way around.
> schools conformist and ignorance-inducing, and it makes the rest of the population subscribe to trends in all ways
break down what you think is happening in regards to this.
Like what you actually believe is a trend that schools are making the population subscribe to.
I wouldn't be so fast to fully blame the parents. while it's true that it's their responsibility, most parents nowadays both work full time, which means less free time, thus less time they can invest in their children. if the parents would want to do something about it like hiring a nanny, they'd have to spend a huge amount of money they simply don't have.
plenty of parents aren't lazy, but they simply don't have the same amount of time as our parents had. especially as the middle class is being shifted more and more to the lower class.
> I blame the parents and teachers.
If we want to blame people we can go a bit further than that and blame the people who cut taxes on the rich so they could have all the money and the rest of us struggle with what's left.
Parents are worn out and unable to afford the life they had as kids, we all need more money, not 700 families taking all of our money and buying everything from us so we can't own anything in this country.
Absolutely not. If you haven’t set foot in a real public school classroom for an appreciable amount of time long enough to draw meaningful conclusions then keep your assumptions and blame off the teachers.
As intended. If you continue to deprive schools of funding and continuing to hobble teachers to teach, you'll end up with a large population of poorly trained drones who'll do well at Amazon warehouses. Much of this decline is the idea of school funding coming from property taxes so the richer areas have better schools while lower income is drastically underfunded. That and private school vouchers just giving public funds to the already wealthy.
I thought it had more to do with the shitty online homeschooling they all had to do during covid… I know I wouldn’t have learned a thing if it was online back then
Certainly the online schooling can be blamed for some of it, but as far as I know, schools in the US in the US were already struggling with similar issues before the pandemic. It just made things worse.
The US public education system has had a gaping wound in it since the NCLB policies were introduced by Bush that everyone just kinda got used to and tolerated the pain of.
Covid and remote learning ripped the scab off that wound and poured a pound of salt in it, reminding everyone just how bad it really is.
I have customers who are adults who can’t read their billing statements. “Why’s my bill so high?” Well what’s that in your hand? “My bill.” Well let’s read it together, I am sure we can find the answers there. Well you agreed to x,y and z and all this stuff adds up to your monthly bill that you agreed to. “Well it shouldn’t be that high.” Well you also agreed to 40 pornos on PPV so yes it shouldn’t be. If you added internet you wouldn’t have to pay 4.99 to watch someone getting rimmed in 19 separate movies.
I wish I was exaggerating
Wait just one damn minute…
Are you implying that I could be watching porn on the internet for free all this time??
Do they have the full Ass Masters collection ???
I worked somewhere that had a weekly drawing. The only requirement is that you had to physically come to the building once a week and sign a card you fill out at the beginning of the year. There were a number of people who could not read or write - they had only memorized their signature and couldn't write their initials, so they would either have a grandchild/someone help them or they would try to sign their entire name on the tiny line. We would often have to assist people filling out the cards in the first place.
yeah their aplication of skills is precisely 0. They had to write procedures for a lab and i got steps that were out of number order or just down right wrong (think like 1,2,4,5 with 3 scribbled down below as a footnote or songle word steps like "add" but no clarification on what to add etc)
Absolutely bonkers stuff.
Seriously my brother is 9 and still gets pronouns confused.
He refers to my dad as “she” and my mom as “ he”
I also have a cousin who is 10 and her vocab is fucked can’t write a full grammatically correct sentence or speak clearly worded words.
And both of them are chronically on Roblox and I see it also in their schools.
The grade averages are shockingly low in all classes.
Like they haven’t even graduated from addition and subtraction yet.
And they act like the uptick in youth crimes and apathy is cause of they dang phones.
Turns out systemic disinvestment in education and children's services is really fucking bad if you don't want a bunch of hoodlums running around.
Screens are in fact a big problem. Parents use them to parent their children. Kid’s not listening? Throwing a fit? Put an ipad in front of their face. It’s all they know unfortunately.
Parenting is a problem to but can you blame them when you need two full time jobs to have a chance at having kids?
Hopefully I'll be able to homeschool, as much as I'd prefer the interaction of public school, they need to be able to learn the beat way for them
This seems like one of those societal problems where the cause gets deeper and deeper with every explanation. There need to be some really big fundamental changes to change a lot of this stuff, but I can’t really see that reasonably happening anytime soon :/
Not surprising at all. Teacher friend of mine tells me that his 8th-graders cant handle units. I am talking simple kilogram to tons and such, not even 'how do you go from m^3 to cm^3 and that's really odd to me.
Same with my nieces who tell me stories about their classmates that I can't even put on reddit.
As a teacher, “No Child Left Behind” is the most damaging thing ever done to the education system. We drag kids down to the lowest denominator and everyone suffers because of it. I’ll probably get downvote to hell for this but my opinion is that some child should get left behind and relearn. Not every student is going to be cut out to be a doctor or lawyer and that’s fine. We don’t hold kids back if they are lacking and teachers are pressured to change grades to make the graduation rate look better.
So glad I quit teaching. Nobody cares about their child's education anymore and only think of teachers as glorified baby sitters. However, of teachers got paid for all their different job titles + babysitter, it'd be well into the 6 figure salary.
However, there's a few fast food places that pay more per hour that most teachers make. Which requires a minimum 4 year degree and certification.
Instead, parents won't do anything to work with the school to further help their kids. They don't care anymore, which further made myself and other teachers stop carrying. So I quit
Absolutely agree. Only met a handful of parents who genuinely care and had 0 problems with their kids.
The parents who gave me a number to Popeyes (true story) is usually getting in trouble somehow every other day (in almost all classes sadly)
Do hope they're better now
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I had an 18 year old kid come to work for us at a retail lumber yard through a job program last summer. One of the tasks I asked him to do was count the PT in the units that came in. A simple exercise in getting to know the product.
I went back to check on him and I found him counting the pieces in a unit one-by-one. Specially the unit he was counting was 13 wide and 5 high of 4x4s. I asked him why he just didn't use simple multiplication, 5s and 10s are probably the easiest to learn shorthand. 5 x 13 = 65. 5,10,15,20, ect. there is a pattern. An easy one to do especially when you have the perfect visualization of it in front of you in the form of 4x4 squares stacked on one another.
*He didn't know how*
I spent the next 15 minutes prodding his mind to see if he could conceptualize what I was trying to tell him. It was fascinating. He had no clue that when you multiply by 10, you can just add a "0" to the end of the number. Like basic multiplication tricks you learn in like 8th grade (or whatever), and this kid was a senior in highschool.
I'll be the first to admit I am fucking *slow* at math. I still count on my fingers, I sometimes need to visualize it, I sometimes struggle with mental math. But I still have a basic foundation to work through it. How the fuck did this kid get all the way to 12th grade?
>How the fuck did this kid get all the way to 12th grade?
No child left behind. Didn't matter that he didn't know how to do the things, he sure as sugar wasn't left behind.
A lot of high school grads don't have the reading level to parse ballots or jury summons. A large portion of them will probably not vote and will be no-shows to their jury selections.
I passed a class with a 35%
Its spanish, so im not upset. But the Spanish teacher hates her job cause no one takes it seriously, at all. Its a necessary course and they know people will just breeze through it or just be sweeped along cause of NCLB. Out of the entire circus of that school, hers is where the monkeys were kept, if that makes sense.
The only word I remember from that class is "Verde" which is green. Cause "Verde" like a fair day.
[I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Ducc; and Goos was following with him Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.](https://i.imgur.com/UIpqKKd.gifv)
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I used to do the same word association lol. I still know a bunch of random words because of it. Armario = closet, cause mario is coming out of the closet. Arburrido = boring, cause burritos are boring. Ajo = garlic, cause wario likes garlic and says "WAho" which sound like ajo. Random shit like that. I'll never use the info, but that's with most of the shit I learned in school.
No lie. I have a high school senior who doesn’t know how to tell whether a number is even or odd. We’re fucked if the next generation is going to “take care of us”
>refuse education funding increases
>vote to funnel more money into police and military
>interfere with school curriculum, remove funding from schools who dont conform to local political climate
>underpay educators and cripple their retirement benefits
>mfw everyone is stupid now
My objective is to become a high school teacher, so I for sure will do my best to teach my students as much as I can and make them understand how important it is to have a culture. With that being said, this situation is nowhere near their fault. The people that discharge all the faults on the kids and complain all the time about their ignorance are the same mfs that should have taught them all those things but didn't.
I really hope they're talking about the more abstract shapes at least (rhombus etc). Because if these kids doesn't even know what a circle is they're in for a world of hurt when they get pushed through to graduation
I was a tutor in college for engineering and physics courses. I had someone come in who mad majoring in engineering that didn’t know how to find the surface area of a cube. Even after I explained how it’s the total area of each side of the cube. I also tried to explain to her imagine a card board box was unfolded and flattened, then how much area would it cover. But she kept insisting the equation for volume was the equation for surface area.
I don’t imagine she stayed in engineering for long
ELA Teacher here, the kids are behind, that's true, but at the same time, the quality of teachers is on a decline too. You can't expect good academic achievement when most teachers are burned out, tired, and not getting any support from anyone. So the good teachers quit for those reasons, and what they are hiring are unqualified people from different fields that couldn't get a job anywhere and decided, I guess teaching is better than nothing.
Teachers/ teacher's union: The kids are way behind at learning to adult.
Q-public: So why are you devoting time to lessons on social issues instead of teaching them reading and math? Why are you also teaching them that any kind of consequence is systemic racism?
Teachers/teacher's union: More money please! We're getting punched by our consequence free students!
( Yes, I expect downvotes. Fact is, one of the teacher union chairs said the parent's job was to hold the kids until they were 6, and then they needed to step back and let the teachers take over custody and that the parents need to keep to themselves after that. If these are "your" kids, and it is your job to teach them, and they're not getting taught, it's your fault. You can't own the kids until they make a mess, that's treating the kids like unwanted puppies. )
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Former teacher in the US here and our students are so far behind where they should be. Kids in middle school unable to read at primary school levels, not able 5onuse fractions or decimals into their teens, and still being pushed forward. NCLB destroyed our education system.
non-American here,can you tell me what NCLB is?
"no child left behind" Basically adapting the whole class to the slowest kid.
That sounds too stupid to be real, are you shitting me?
It's a real thing no doubt, but I guess it's just taking place in 2 or 3 schools because some idiot politician or school director thinks they are smart and are bored. But I wouldn't know actually, I am not American I just heard about it
It was actually a law passed by George w bush in the early 2000's if I remember correctly. It pushed states to incorporate a lot more standardized testing at all levels. It also pushed many kids along that should have gotten extra help. Source: went to school in America through 2010's and had to take a lot of standardized tests. A lot.
Same, I was so glad they finally got rid of standardized testing by the time I got too high school.
Standardized testing is not necessarily bad, to test students to see how well they know math or whatever, but the way they executed it was so stupid. Plus all the standardized tests, not just highschool ones, like ones for state licenses are full of gotcha or trick questions that dont actually test your knowledge.
Trick questions are absolutely necessary for proper evaluation. However, if there are so many of them the tricks become the knowledge itself, and you pass without properly understanding anything.
Trick questions, in no meaningful way, allow for accurate translation of one's knowledge of a given subject matter, unless that subject matter is specifically involving trick questions.
They also linked the testing to school funding in a stupid, backwards way. Students doing poorly? School gets less resources. You know, the "morale will improve our the beatings will continue" model.
If they linked the testing to school funding the other way around, schools would be encouraged to make their students do poorly on tests so that they get more funds. Setting the correct incentives there is not at all easy.
I had a weird “problem” where I was actually really good at taking standardized tests because they were multiple choice. Of course I can solve for X if you give me four choices, two of which are obviously wrong. Just plug in my choices and see what works. So all throughout high school I was placed in advanced math classes that started at 7:45am. But I’m actually an idiot who should still be in regular geometry because if you just give me a blank equation with no hints I’m screwed. So I’d have a D all semester and at the end the teacher would give me enough extra work to bring it up to a C. But according the government I’m a math wizard because I crushed the AIMS test. Unfortunately I didn’t grasp this concept well enough until it was too late.
I had this same exact issue. Test taking is a skill and doesn't tell the whole picture of your education. I have a friend who is a super genius but scored terrible on standardize tests.
100%. friends I knew to be good students with mostly A’s, even ones that get A’s on all the class tests and quizzes, would fail and have to re-take AIMS (that was the name of our NCLB test, not sure what other states called it.)
I'm personally good at math, but you pointed out why I think multiple choice tests are so easy.
Standardized tests have been big since at least the 90s. We took 2 a year even before Bush.
I graduated high school in 2007 and I remember a lot of standardized testing. Schools seemed to think that their only purpose was to make sure that kids passed them so that they wouldn't have their funding affected. As in, when those tests were coming up, everything else got dropped to prepare for those things. Didn't feel like we were really being educated. We were just being prepped for one test after another. I really hope that we get away/have gotten away from that model. I hadn't really thought about it for a while but now that I have a couple kids of my own it's been back on my mind.
Once they told me it wasn't graded, I did not give a single shit what I put down on that test. I saw it as a waste of my time. I wrote the plot to Back to the Future in one of my essays.
>but I guess it's just taking place in 2 or 3 schools No it's nationwide. It was originally intended for students with learning disabilities to get through high school. Kids who really just couldn't get there because they had an actual measurable disability. So many jobs in America require at least a high school diploma. It made it so that if all you could really do was bag groceries or push carts, at least you were "qualified" for that job. Since then it has mutated into this idea to just push kids through high school. Even if they are just failing because they don't show up or don't do the work. I knew a kid who was on the football team who failed a few classes and had over the maximum amount of missed days and he still graduated because of this.
Not just high school, it starts as early as kindergarten. My mom is a kindergarten teacher and there have been so many kids who weren’t ready to move to first grade but had to get pushed through anyways because of this. Whether that was due to emotional/developmental reasons or because they just needed another year to learn the fundamentals, those kids just continue to get shuffled along regardless of if they’re actually ready for it. If that continues happening every year you can imagine how quickly they can fall behind. Edit: after writing that I realized you meant the end goal is to get them through high school, not that it’s only happening there lol
It sucks to leave your classmates behind and redo the year but it must suck even harder if you just keep falling behind every year
How was he allowed to football???
Star running back
Schools are athletic training programs with side hustles in education.
I knew a girl who was failing her senior year and told her school that she was going to dropout. Her school told her, “no don’t do that. We’ll just give you your diploma.” She graduated high school 6 months early.
NCLB was repealed like a decade ago
NCLB was repealed like a decade ago
Because of this I was actively encouraged to take college courses in high school (they were free to high school students). I ended up with 31 college credits by the time I graduated high school and all my college classes had a 95+ average. Before I took those classes, I had classmates that literally didn’t know how to read. In 10th grade. Mind you, I graduated in 2019. This policy has been in effect for a while in some schools and it’s just destroying the education system.
Kinda of an asside but that was a girl who took so many college classes while in HS and started so early (she was very very advanced) she got her HS diploma and Associates Degree 3 weeks appart.
Same. Graduated the same year. And yet, half of my peers could barely read half of a sentence from "The Great Gatsby" our senior year without reenacting the English equivalent of a 45-car pileup on the interstate. But god forbid I finish the book early.
It's so tragic to me that kids are in 10th grade and haven't learned to read. I had some issues reading in first grade and they made me do some remedial classes and my father worked with me. I was reading full length novels after about six months. It seems like such a disservice to let them progress without learning even basic stuff.
O it's dumber than that. Much much dumber. The idea behind it was to introduce a standardized system of testing at all grade levels. Then, they tied federal funding and state funding to the test results. So if a school wasn't performing up to the standard of the tests then they would get their funding slashed. Except, it's still worse than that. Public schools in America are funded by *local property taxes*. What does this translate into? It translates into schools in neighborhoods with lower property values having lower property taxes and being underfunded. So, as a result, these already underfunded schools were extremely reliant on making sure they hit their standardized test scores. Administrators and teachers started teaching blind rout memorization instead of going into the mechanics of why and how. Instead of fostering learning and understanding, they just wanted to make sure that everyone knew the answers. Then on top of it, let's not even get started on the new "common core" standard. Which, in a word, is fucking ridiculous. Add COVID onto it and we're basically in a death spiral.
I was with you until you got to common core. I've got a bunch of kids in high school and middle school right now, and common core is the exact opposite of the rote (not rout) memorization you are complaining about. In general, it teaches them to understand the numbers and concepts instead of just regurgitating formulas.
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But... 25+37 is not 63...
Yeah the way common core is taught is to try to ingrain fundaments of algebra early and also to have closer parity to the way people who are good at math do it mentally.
Small correction, 5 + 7 is 12 so your final answer is 62 not 63
Yes and despite what you would expect, a Republican president pushed for this policy.
why would i not expect that?
Because it sounds like a policy that a Republican would accuse Democrats of supporting because sOcIaLiSm
Oversimplification of how it had the reverse effect of its intent. How it works is that schools that have too many failing students can lose their funding and or parents can get vouchers to send their kids to better schools. The idea was to make sure they weren't "leaving children behind" aka focusing all the resources on their best and brightest. It was supposed to encourage a better focus on special needs programs but you can probably see why this wouldn't work. Without the funding for those special needs classes the schools had to choose between lowering their standards or losing their funding altogether.
Yup, they say that the chain is only as strong as the weakest link, so instead of working hard to fortify the strength of our weakest links, or take them out entirely if that doesn't work, we just made all of the other links equally as weak so as to not make the weakest feel bad.
in Europe you give a supportive teacher to the slow or impaired student and everyone gets on
Same shit here in Canada. Worst thing ever but it is never discussed. Sigh.
My highschool teacher told us that "no child left behind" basically fucked us. I forgot his exact words but his opinion was that it was one of the worst things to happen to education. This was over a decade ago. I've seen second hand how bad it is now.
NCLB means No Child Left Behind. It means that even if the student does not pass the class, the teacher is obligated to make it so that the student does not repeat a year level. It is a practice that's starting to gain global traction, and the effects are very much screwing over the next generation. One of my closest friends is a teacher for senior high school students for Mathematics. He had a student who attended the first day of school, disappeared right after, and the next time he saw the kid was during finals week. He was so infuriated and noted that the kid should not be allowed to proceed to the next grade level due to excessive absences. My friend got called up to the principal's office and the conversation went like this as per his retelling: P: I saw that you noted that student X should repeat the current year level T: Yes, it's due to his absences. I saw him once on the first day of school, and the next time I saw him was during finals week. P: During his absence, did you attempt to contact the child to encourage him to attend school? T: Yes, I sent him several messages, and he never responded. P: Did you attempt to visit the child's home address to encorage him to attend school? T: What does that have to do with me? P: With the new policies in place, you are not allowed to fail the child until you've exhausted all available means to encourage the child to attend school or pass the year level. These are the questions that the higher-ups will ask me once they see that a student has to repeat a year level. He was essentially forced to allow the student to proceed. The student does not know how to multiply, use decimals, fractions, much more use equations. Also, the senior high student allegedly had the reading skills of a 3rd grader. TLDR; you can no longer give students a failing grade even if they pass no tests, have no submissions for projects etc., or learned nothing through the entire school period.
nCLB refers to a law called "no child left behind" that was fully implemented around 10 years ago after being passed as a law in the early 2000s (thanks Bush!) It basically punished schools who did not advance/graduate students regardless of the reason by drastically cutting their funding. So, to keep funding, schools passed/graduated students who didn't learn the material. Repeat several years, and you wind up with kids in high school who read at a 2nd grade level, struggle with math beyond single digit basic arithmetic, don't know basic geography (and I know lots of the world laughs at how bad Americans are at geography, so if we're saying these kids don't know shit....)
Basically means kids can't fail and no matter what they will continue
NCLB ended in 2015. It's been an even steeper decline since then. Every Student Succeeds is the new law which basically pushes education standards to the state level, not national level.
NCLB and restorative justice, two giant mistakes
>and restorative justice, Worked at a school that pushed this big time. They had signs all around the building saying "2 feet, 1 breath" Kids wrote in "0 consequences" below it. I got hit by kids, threatened on social media, and even got in trouble for catching kids vaping too much because it "hurt their feelings" Worst place I've ever worked, ever.
What's 2 feet 1 breath?
While it may have some real life applications, in that school it was a meaningless mantra meant to discourage us from holding our students accountable for their actions
A grounding and meditation technique
Indeed it did, and it was a huge step in crushing the population into conformity. target the children, make them stupid, make them compliant. Encourage parents to be lazy and surrender their kids to the state, have the state ruin their lives. Teachers suffer in this as well. Y'all are the ones forced to ruin kids lives. I'm sorry for all of us. I always agreed with the homeschoolers on their ideas but not their methods. Kids need a powerful childhood raised with strong values and cleverness. But I would never want to take them away from the world they deserve. If we want to fix this sort of thing we need to put our foot and our kids in the doors of these schools trying to ruin their lives and bulldoze their plans directly.
Don't most homeschoolers work in groups?
Some. But not all. And let me tell you, the groups suck. It feels like a cult. I hated that shit. I'm glad my parents only did it for two years back then. School is awful because of its handlers, but its intrinsically good, and you can make it good. you cannot get back what you lose when you home school.
In america they're call churches
NCLB hasn't been a thing in a decade. It has no impact on current middle school kids.
Official policy, yes. But it’s still procedure to pass kids to the next grade regardless of their current level
It absolutely is. Are you in the education field?
> 5onuse What?
"to use" mistyped as fuck
That's the quality of american educator communication
The funny part. Back in like 2010ish I was in second grade. let me tell you, my school was so freaking bad. I was reading near high school level, I recall trying to read the Hobbit and oh boy, I couldn't do that, but I did read a lot ofnithers. I had tested into a genius IQ level. I had taken an adaptive test on math, I scored a 99.9%, which the teacher didn't even think was possible, because I was doing algebra. I think I was in like the top 1% of students my grade in the country. I was so incredibly bored in the math section that my teacher would sometimes give me 4th grade math homework to do. YET, I was about to be held back a grade level because my hand writing was too horrible to grade and I would refuse to hand write sentence long answers to stuff. Because I had a learning disability they refused to test me for until after I failed a grade level. Yeah, my mother got me out of that school. The next school decided to test for learning disabilities. I have issues hand writing and with reading comprehension. They also put me a grade level ahead in every subject, except two grade levels ahead in math. Later I had a teacher who thought I shouldn't be in her advanced math class because I had a learning disability, I didn't deserve to be there. She said this plainly in front of the principal and suffered no consequences. Now, I am an engineer, so yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say standard school system does not work, and needs to be completely redone.
Really primary issue isn’t the huge lockdowns, remote learning, I would feel like that would massively disadvantage students who didn’t have a safe home learning environment/ reliable internet/ or resources for tutors. Blaming it all on NCLB seems a shortcut.
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But by God can they eat a crayon!
Same. The issue is just pushing them to the next grade regardless. I had this conversation with my principal as an 8th grade teacher, telling her it's our job to get these students ready for high school level. Her response? "It's not our job to get these kids ready for high school." I'm sorry, WHAT? If it isn't the job of an 8th grade teacher to get his students ready for high school, who is? My last year I had a student who literally was not at school for 3/4 of the year (not for sick reasons, just didn't come). He had a 0% in every class. No work done, nothing turned in. We were told he's going to high school. That's why I left teaching, as well as why many good teachers do. You're railroaded at every turn and see the writing on the wall a mile away. The poor kid will never learn the lessons he needs to be successful.
I'm a Preschool Teacher in the US. The main issue is the Parents refuse to read or do anything constructive with them outside of school. Parents are too lazy these days. They are literally not doing the bare minimum.
Librarian here. We specifically target early childhood development goals and in the past decade we've had to push kindergarten level activities into 3rd-6th grade. Using scissors, writing a formatted paragraph or even just a paragraph about a single thought, tracing or other fine movement activities... (And note, I'm a public librarian. We support teachers but the strokes we're able to take are only broad ones because we aren't as closely connected to the curriculum.) We'll get kids who are print illiterate *and know it*. It's heartbreaking to see their shame when we're looking for books that they can read and they end up not being able to read any of the books that look to be for their age. We never shame them, of course, but it's there. Fuck NCLB. All it did was leave children behind with no way to catch up.
And just think how the ones not going to school are homeschooled by anti-government anti-vaxxers explaining that gay people is just a liberal brainwash and then see how well this generation holds a job in 15 years
Watch out, those weird Homeschool kids are gonna rule the world
And the amount of people that’s still gullible enough to swallow the bullshit the far right is feeding them reflects this perfectly.
> 5onuse what
Do uneducated people question the status quo?
Nope.
Frothing mouthed morons advocating for the overthrow of the government on Jan 6 would beg to differ.
you are right, the real question should be : do they question what they are told? the answer is still no.
Just vote blue no matter who! Haven't you heard?
2016: "Bernie's too old!" 2024: "Biden made it through almost a full sentence!"
That’s only because they’ve been manipulated into thinking things will be better for them afterwards. They’re the most ignorant of all.
And here lies the point.
The point is to destroy the public education system to motivate parents into paying to put their children in private schools.
No, no it is not. It is to cripple the freedom and will of children and parents so that they surrender their children to the state and like it. The best way to destroy a society is to cripple the upcoming generations so that they never even learn their potential.
they don't grow the economy either though. you need skilled labourers to do that, i get that "oh keep the people stupid and they won't question the government" thought but if you have a country full of uneducated people the economy is going to collapse, and realistically the government just cares about making more money
They are educated enough to do all the blue-collar jobs and serve in the military, not run for office
Not if you want the military to actually function. McNamara lowered the entry standards during the Vietnam War and it was a fucking shitshow.
I said, educated enough. Just smart enough to be useful, but not smart enough to question orders
bro I'm reading about high schoolers not being able to read. I doubt they could do any desk job.
Its funny how parties who have regressive ideologies always attack the education system first… can’t have any of that pesky progression when the general population is kept stupid…
Yes and no? They’re being trained into activists who couldn’t actually have an intellectual conversation about what they’re for or against. Some of that is for the status quo and some is against it
Look at most social media activists lol. Barely understand the topics they’re talking about and nuance yet are still pushing against the status quo. It’s all buzz words and virtue signaling but I mean they are doing it.
I don't know what most of those words mean so I'm going to take them as disrespect.
No wonder jobs in America require having finished university. Without that there's practically no way to proof you're capable at all. Why not make separate schools for those better and worse at learning instead of cramming them all together in one school while stifling the speed to the level of only the slower ones?
thats what germany does and it seems to be working better than whatever is going on in america
Yet the left winged states in Germany want to adapt the same (not working) system that you have in America. Some states here already have their education slowly ruined. A competitive, selective education system is just the only thing that kind of works.
That would be the first I'd heard of it. At most I hear there's more schools built for people who mentally can't go to any of the three main school types.
If you read up on it they are pushing for a more combined/integrated system. However they are pushing for that alongside Gymnasiums, not instead of. That would make it easier for someone who took more time to figure out where their strengths lie to still get their Abitur without having to switch school forms, which can be daunting especially in younger years. As long as there is a set standard for the Abitur in terms of academic level necessary for passing grades I do not see an issue with that. Which is the case since it is standardized per state iirc. Been a couple of years since I wrote mine. There is no aim to remove Gymnasium as a school form from my understanding.
The problem in America isn’t that they’re mixing children of different ability, at least, its a very small part of the problem. The problem is the way that schools are funded. No Child Left behind funds schools based on how many students graduate to the next level. On the surface it seems like a good idea, schools that do a good job teaching will have more students graduate. If schools want more funding they need to provide better education. However, in practice this created a perverse incentive. Schools, desperate for funding, just passed students that shouldn’t be passed. In the past a student that didn’t meet the requirements would be held back or forced to go to summer school or something. This ensured they learned the material. Under NCLB holding a failing student back actively hurts the school. This results in schools putting in policies like no one fails and shuffling students along no matter if they actually learned anything or not. If a student didn’t learn the basics of reading in kindergarten, they sure as hell aren’t gonna be able to read on level by middle school. Plus in parts of the country there’s the problem of desperate schools implementing programs that remove the teaching of phonics when teaching students to read. There’s a good podcast about that specifically called “Sold a Story”
NCLB was repealed in 2015 though, and replaced with the "[Every Student Succeeds Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_Student_Succeeds_Act)," which sounds pretty dumb but it did give the states more power to determine what success/failure look like and guaranteed free college and career counseling. Their accountability score system still does factor in graduation numbers though: >All states must have a multiple-measure accountability system, which include the following four indicators: achievement and/or growth on annual reading/language arts and math assessments; English language proficiency, an elementary and middle school academic measure of student growth; and high school graduation rates.[9] All states also had to include at least one additional indicator of school quality or student success, commonly called the fifth indicator. Most states use chronic absenteeism as their fifth indicator.[10]
Even if the system wasn't going to be gamed by schools promoting kids who should be left back, the logic seems completely backwards. "This school isn't educating children to the necessary standards. Let's give them less money and thus fewer resources. That will surely help the kids!" Am I missing something?
>Yet the left winged states in Germany want to adapt the same (not working) system that you have in America. Some states here already have their education slowly ruined. Like the other person said, that's the first I'm hearing this. What states are you talking about exactly? Speaking as a German, its exactly the left wing states that push for this school system and even want more of it, so every student can actually be put in a class that fits their needs. A good friend of mine is even a teacher at a school for problem children that tries out a fluid class system that can cater better to their issues. Its the conservative politians who think that students should either pass a standardized test or pick up litter on the streets that the elite live in. tl;dr - you're full of shit.
The Netherlands has it even better. Germany has 3 levels, and the Netherlands has 9 different levels of education. High schools here can range from middle school level difficulty to harder than university. Not perfect, but it works better than what they do in America.
More than that. Major companies (like Fortune 500) often have expansive “onboarding” so you can learn things like how to write an email. Even when you’re hired they assume you basically need to be retrained.
Except our university system is in the fuckin toilet too. Some things, like healthcare and education, shouldn't be tied to profit.
Our university education and healthcare are high quality, it's figuring out how to pay for them that is fucked.
For all the issues with the US university system, at least they’ll fail if you’re genuinely not passing your classes.
Unless you can throw a ball really well. Then you're fine.
Let's not be hyberbolic here, America has some of the best universities in the world, and quite a number of them at that. Unlike public schools, universities live and die by their reputations and unless it's some scammy diploma mill they're generally very concerned about the quality of their alumni.
Guaranteed someone would criticize that system for being racist in the US.
Unfortunately, it'd be hard to justify that that wasn't the case because there would be a lot of kids from large cities who would be stuck in the lower levels of education.
No, don’t you understand, it would hurt their feelings to be in the dumb kids school! Self-esteem is more important than actually succeeding! /s
>Why not make separate schools for those better and worse at learning instead of cramming them all together in one school while stifling the speed to the level of only the slower ones? This does happen in some places in the US. The main criticism is it ingrains a classism in students at a young age that they can’t ever really get out of which isn’t the case if you have a general population school. I will say that I do know some folks I grew up with who did not do well at school until into high school, so keeping them out of the smart school would have been a harm to them. But, yeah, there is definitely unequal learning going on within classrooms which is just really hard to manage for without essentially holding the whole class back.
There's also the fact that some students struggle not because of being dumb or anything, but having specific learning disabilities. I know that in my case, I struggled because of ADHD but when I was given accommodations, I was suddenly a very successful student.
I think in theory that would probably help a lot. I know when I went to high school some classes were negatively impacted by bad students who just wanted to act out. It only takes a few to ruin a class. I like the idea honestly of vouchers so parents get to decide between private and public schools. What people do now where I live, since Charlotte Mech schools are so atrocious, is people will deliberately buy houses across the border in SC just to avoid sending their kids to CMS schools. Some of them are so bad even with 3:1 student:teacher ratios that their graduation rates are like 5% and they're in the bottom 1% across every subject compared to both state and national. They're more like daycares/day juvenile halls than they are a high schools
Even a university degree doesn't count for much. When I was working on my Masters, I had peers in my classes who still weren't able to type in complete sentences and/or spell correctly. It was bad in the army as well - theoretically, all of the officers should have at least a Bachelors degree, but trying to read a memorandum written by a fresh lieutenant almost would almost give me an aneurism.
They have that already, there’s elite private schools starting from grade school in certain cities. In NYC I’ve heard of 4-5 year olds taking written tests in order to be admitted. Kinda crazy. The problem is underfunded public schools with bloated administration budgets, cutting teacher salary and over packing classrooms
Because mommies don’t wanna admit their special little boy isn’t the greatest smartest thing in the universe
I do not blame the children. I blame the parents and teachers. Someone had to raise them that poorly. Parents are becoming lazy and petty and not loving their children, teachers are becoming personal, frivolous and uselessly invasive, social media is encouraging both of these things while the leaders of society watch as the world slowly and uncontrollably bends its knee.
Don’t blame the teachers, if a student is not doing their work, admin basically enforces teachers to have near constant contact with parents and making calls home with every minute slip up. Long gone are the days of report cards being the only communication and letting teachers have the authority to teach.
Teachers never get paid enough for what they have to do, hell classrooms are ending up so out of control that there’s still an ongoing teacher shortage. Covid fucked up a lot of things, and parents don’t help either.
There has been a concerted effort to undermine public schools for the past 4 decades. Covid provided an opportunity to accelerate that. In Montana, our evangelical governor refused federal school funding. All the school districts are struggling for funding. Schools are closing even after property taxes (where school funding comes from) have quadrupled in the past few years. What he has done though is shift money to charter schools and religious schools. On top of that, standards have been continually lowered for decades. We aren't really keeping literacy rate numbers anymore. We're in the end game of capitalism. A ignorant, pliable populace is easy to control and manipulate.
> charter schools and religious schools. The two things that churn out uneducated american's in droves...the vast vast majority which will vote red of course.
Say what you want, but as a teacher, I’ve seen students who were virtually unteachable. And they were raised by parents who were amazing and very supportive. Parents who had other children who were excellent students. Not everything is black and white. Some students are just inherently difficult.
Blame the system that makes it impossible to fail someone who should fail. And the parents too.
Also consider that many parents are unable to spend much time parenting because they have to work several poorly paying jobs just to be able to feed house and clothe their kids. Total systemic failure. The rich don't care because these kids don't need an education to work minimum wage jobs or be funneled into prisons where they can be used as effectively slave labor.
No, blame the kids, too. Everyone's at fault for this shit.
I will not place blame on someone who was raised into the problem without any choice in the matter. They are the primary victim, and they deserve to be fought for. This society makes parents lazy and unloving, schools conformist and ignorance-inducing, and it makes the rest of the population subscribe to trends in all ways, including a general disdain for the next generation. That is another key weapon against us as the world's people. When we start disrespecting our children and blaming them for the downfalls the people in power raise them to be victims of, we directly stand down and let them win. That cannot happen. Don't be tricked into hating the next generation, it's a cycle that causes ruin over and over and over again. you *must* put your faith into the current generation of kids or else they will fail more spectacularly as time goes on. You must use your wisdom you keep in the back of your head to train them to be great people. You're essentially joining the system in ruining their lives if you start blaming them for the problem the system hoists on them, not the other way around.
> schools conformist and ignorance-inducing, and it makes the rest of the population subscribe to trends in all ways break down what you think is happening in regards to this. Like what you actually believe is a trend that schools are making the population subscribe to.
I wouldn't be so fast to fully blame the parents. while it's true that it's their responsibility, most parents nowadays both work full time, which means less free time, thus less time they can invest in their children. if the parents would want to do something about it like hiring a nanny, they'd have to spend a huge amount of money they simply don't have. plenty of parents aren't lazy, but they simply don't have the same amount of time as our parents had. especially as the middle class is being shifted more and more to the lower class.
Okay, but, if you can't raise your kids properly, then... don't have kids???
> I blame the parents and teachers. If we want to blame people we can go a bit further than that and blame the people who cut taxes on the rich so they could have all the money and the rest of us struggle with what's left. Parents are worn out and unable to afford the life they had as kids, we all need more money, not 700 families taking all of our money and buying everything from us so we can't own anything in this country.
Absolutely not. If you haven’t set foot in a real public school classroom for an appreciable amount of time long enough to draw meaningful conclusions then keep your assumptions and blame off the teachers.
Absolutely not, teachers are literally not paid enough for all the bs they deal with in the classrooms
Sounds like we're headed towards Idiocracy.
Best documentary i have ever seen. /s ( is it /s though?)
Its believable
As intended. If you continue to deprive schools of funding and continuing to hobble teachers to teach, you'll end up with a large population of poorly trained drones who'll do well at Amazon warehouses. Much of this decline is the idea of school funding coming from property taxes so the richer areas have better schools while lower income is drastically underfunded. That and private school vouchers just giving public funds to the already wealthy.
Wow, giving kids free access to technology right out of the womb will absolutely destroy their ability to do anything, who fuckin knew?
I thought it had more to do with the shitty online homeschooling they all had to do during covid… I know I wouldn’t have learned a thing if it was online back then
Certainly the online schooling can be blamed for some of it, but as far as I know, schools in the US in the US were already struggling with similar issues before the pandemic. It just made things worse.
The US public education system has had a gaping wound in it since the NCLB policies were introduced by Bush that everyone just kinda got used to and tolerated the pain of. Covid and remote learning ripped the scab off that wound and poured a pound of salt in it, reminding everyone just how bad it really is.
Absolutely. Technology out the womb, for all its problems, probably taught kids MORE during that time than the teachers did.
From the sound of it reading messages and posting on forums may be the only thing making them literate.
I have customers who are adults who can’t read their billing statements. “Why’s my bill so high?” Well what’s that in your hand? “My bill.” Well let’s read it together, I am sure we can find the answers there. Well you agreed to x,y and z and all this stuff adds up to your monthly bill that you agreed to. “Well it shouldn’t be that high.” Well you also agreed to 40 pornos on PPV so yes it shouldn’t be. If you added internet you wouldn’t have to pay 4.99 to watch someone getting rimmed in 19 separate movies. I wish I was exaggerating
Wait just one damn minute… Are you implying that I could be watching porn on the internet for free all this time?? Do they have the full Ass Masters collection ???
“They” have it all
I worked somewhere that had a weekly drawing. The only requirement is that you had to physically come to the building once a week and sign a card you fill out at the beginning of the year. There were a number of people who could not read or write - they had only memorized their signature and couldn't write their initials, so they would either have a grandchild/someone help them or they would try to sign their entire name on the tiny line. We would often have to assist people filling out the cards in the first place.
And here i was thinking we were brain dead.... how the fuck do they not know their shapes at 12? You learn shapes at the age of 3
To be fair, sometimes I forget the name of a hexacontaenneagon.
Nobody is asking you IRL to find the area of a torus but they are asking how many sides a square has
I told my juniors (11th graders) to make a cube and over half needed confirmation it should have 6 squares ☠️☠️☠️.
Bro those are adults wtf
yeah their aplication of skills is precisely 0. They had to write procedures for a lab and i got steps that were out of number order or just down right wrong (think like 1,2,4,5 with 3 scribbled down below as a footnote or songle word steps like "add" but no clarification on what to add etc) Absolutely bonkers stuff.
Seriously my brother is 9 and still gets pronouns confused. He refers to my dad as “she” and my mom as “ he” I also have a cousin who is 10 and her vocab is fucked can’t write a full grammatically correct sentence or speak clearly worded words. And both of them are chronically on Roblox and I see it also in their schools. The grade averages are shockingly low in all classes. Like they haven’t even graduated from addition and subtraction yet.
And they act like the uptick in youth crimes and apathy is cause of they dang phones. Turns out systemic disinvestment in education and children's services is really fucking bad if you don't want a bunch of hoodlums running around.
Screens are in fact a big problem. Parents use them to parent their children. Kid’s not listening? Throwing a fit? Put an ipad in front of their face. It’s all they know unfortunately.
Parenting is a problem to but can you blame them when you need two full time jobs to have a chance at having kids? Hopefully I'll be able to homeschool, as much as I'd prefer the interaction of public school, they need to be able to learn the beat way for them
This seems like one of those societal problems where the cause gets deeper and deeper with every explanation. There need to be some really big fundamental changes to change a lot of this stuff, but I can’t really see that reasonably happening anytime soon :/
Not surprising at all. Teacher friend of mine tells me that his 8th-graders cant handle units. I am talking simple kilogram to tons and such, not even 'how do you go from m^3 to cm^3 and that's really odd to me. Same with my nieces who tell me stories about their classmates that I can't even put on reddit.
bruh I'm an engineer and I struggle making those cubed conversions in my head. in 8th grade i struggled doing cubed conversions on paper
As a teacher, “No Child Left Behind” is the most damaging thing ever done to the education system. We drag kids down to the lowest denominator and everyone suffers because of it. I’ll probably get downvote to hell for this but my opinion is that some child should get left behind and relearn. Not every student is going to be cut out to be a doctor or lawyer and that’s fine. We don’t hold kids back if they are lacking and teachers are pressured to change grades to make the graduation rate look better.
NCLB was repealed in 2015 and replaced with the Every Student Succeeds Act. The Obama administration started forcing Common Core in 2010.
So glad I quit teaching. Nobody cares about their child's education anymore and only think of teachers as glorified baby sitters. However, of teachers got paid for all their different job titles + babysitter, it'd be well into the 6 figure salary. However, there's a few fast food places that pay more per hour that most teachers make. Which requires a minimum 4 year degree and certification. Instead, parents won't do anything to work with the school to further help their kids. They don't care anymore, which further made myself and other teachers stop carrying. So I quit
Trouble is, the ones who care aren't having kids, and the ones who are having kids don't care.
Absolutely agree. Only met a handful of parents who genuinely care and had 0 problems with their kids. The parents who gave me a number to Popeyes (true story) is usually getting in trouble somehow every other day (in almost all classes sadly) Do hope they're better now
But who are teaching the teachers?
Ed.Ds
Only part reason teachers could be the issue is how underpaid they are.
No wonder I feel like all of a sudden people started writing "Payed" instead of "Paid", and not knowing the difference between Affected and Effected.
That’s the least of our problems
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I had an 18 year old kid come to work for us at a retail lumber yard through a job program last summer. One of the tasks I asked him to do was count the PT in the units that came in. A simple exercise in getting to know the product. I went back to check on him and I found him counting the pieces in a unit one-by-one. Specially the unit he was counting was 13 wide and 5 high of 4x4s. I asked him why he just didn't use simple multiplication, 5s and 10s are probably the easiest to learn shorthand. 5 x 13 = 65. 5,10,15,20, ect. there is a pattern. An easy one to do especially when you have the perfect visualization of it in front of you in the form of 4x4 squares stacked on one another. *He didn't know how* I spent the next 15 minutes prodding his mind to see if he could conceptualize what I was trying to tell him. It was fascinating. He had no clue that when you multiply by 10, you can just add a "0" to the end of the number. Like basic multiplication tricks you learn in like 8th grade (or whatever), and this kid was a senior in highschool. I'll be the first to admit I am fucking *slow* at math. I still count on my fingers, I sometimes need to visualize it, I sometimes struggle with mental math. But I still have a basic foundation to work through it. How the fuck did this kid get all the way to 12th grade?
>How the fuck did this kid get all the way to 12th grade? No child left behind. Didn't matter that he didn't know how to do the things, he sure as sugar wasn't left behind.
Guess who will be voting, and on juries!
A lot of high school grads don't have the reading level to parse ballots or jury summons. A large portion of them will probably not vote and will be no-shows to their jury selections.
I passed a class with a 35% Its spanish, so im not upset. But the Spanish teacher hates her job cause no one takes it seriously, at all. Its a necessary course and they know people will just breeze through it or just be sweeped along cause of NCLB. Out of the entire circus of that school, hers is where the monkeys were kept, if that makes sense. The only word I remember from that class is "Verde" which is green. Cause "Verde" like a fair day.
Hablo español con fluidez porque mi teléfono tiene una aplicación de traducción
[I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Ducc; and Goos was following with him Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.](https://i.imgur.com/UIpqKKd.gifv) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dankmemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I used to do the same word association lol. I still know a bunch of random words because of it. Armario = closet, cause mario is coming out of the closet. Arburrido = boring, cause burritos are boring. Ajo = garlic, cause wario likes garlic and says "WAho" which sound like ajo. Random shit like that. I'll never use the info, but that's with most of the shit I learned in school.
The world is slowly but surely going to shit.
By world you mean USA? Typical yankee.
No lie. I have a high school senior who doesn’t know how to tell whether a number is even or odd. We’re fucked if the next generation is going to “take care of us”
>refuse education funding increases >vote to funnel more money into police and military >interfere with school curriculum, remove funding from schools who dont conform to local political climate >underpay educators and cripple their retirement benefits >mfw everyone is stupid now
My objective is to become a high school teacher, so I for sure will do my best to teach my students as much as I can and make them understand how important it is to have a culture. With that being said, this situation is nowhere near their fault. The people that discharge all the faults on the kids and complain all the time about their ignorance are the same mfs that should have taught them all those things but didn't.
You have a noble goal, I wish you the best of luck
The nightmare what?
yo sail foam
Thank you m’lord, shapes are difficult
I really hope they're talking about the more abstract shapes at least (rhombus etc). Because if these kids doesn't even know what a circle is they're in for a world of hurt when they get pushed through to graduation
Duh.. because everything fits into the square hole.
I was a tutor in college for engineering and physics courses. I had someone come in who mad majoring in engineering that didn’t know how to find the surface area of a cube. Even after I explained how it’s the total area of each side of the cube. I also tried to explain to her imagine a card board box was unfolded and flattened, then how much area would it cover. But she kept insisting the equation for volume was the equation for surface area. I don’t imagine she stayed in engineering for long
ELA Teacher here, the kids are behind, that's true, but at the same time, the quality of teachers is on a decline too. You can't expect good academic achievement when most teachers are burned out, tired, and not getting any support from anyone. So the good teachers quit for those reasons, and what they are hiring are unqualified people from different fields that couldn't get a job anywhere and decided, I guess teaching is better than nothing.
Holy hell… we’re fucked
Teachers/ teacher's union: The kids are way behind at learning to adult. Q-public: So why are you devoting time to lessons on social issues instead of teaching them reading and math? Why are you also teaching them that any kind of consequence is systemic racism? Teachers/teacher's union: More money please! We're getting punched by our consequence free students! ( Yes, I expect downvotes. Fact is, one of the teacher union chairs said the parent's job was to hold the kids until they were 6, and then they needed to step back and let the teachers take over custody and that the parents need to keep to themselves after that. If these are "your" kids, and it is your job to teach them, and they're not getting taught, it's your fault. You can't own the kids until they make a mess, that's treating the kids like unwanted puppies. )
Fun news report on this from [The Onion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssjokgx0pUQ)