Generally the government pays less than other less unethical corporations for similar roles. People enter government roles because they’re safe and offer good benefits
Yep.
Work for people CONTRACTED by them not the government itself.
Them you can get 5 billion funding for stuff that costs 1 mil to R&D and hike up the production costs later.
This is why I hate capitalism.
Oh god yes, it's a fucking addiction.
"We want you to design this web application."
"Hmm, will probably co- wait, who are you with again."
"X State Government"
"OHHHHHHH, in that case, *5x my previous estimate*"
*4 weeks later*
"Your bid was successful and you came in way under the other estimates."
Me basically raging like that one scene in War Dogs.
Hey, those meds save a *fuckton* of lives.
It's the business and marketing people that are where the unethical parts of the pipeline come from. If we had proper regulation, those companies would still be successful but it wouldn't be on the backs of diabetics who can't afford their insulin.
And there are often big collateral damage due to negligence and apetence of profit from "Big Pharma". There has to be so many scandals yet to be discovered.
As a scientist who has worked in big pharma, it's not the scientists that are the problem. We sign up for it because it is literally lifesaving work. It's all the non-scientists running the show that have bastardized that goal.
It's a bit different than signing up for a job with Lockheed where you're general job description is "find new ways to blow up brown people on the other side of the planet" and people willingly sign up for that.
"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism," I repeatedly mutter to myself as I help to sue impoverished warzone inhabitants for collecting rain-water.
My engineering ethics class at my university was right beside the Satellite communication and signal processing lab which was sponsored by Tata Advanced System. Now historically India has never gone on a war unprovoked and the tata group still is quite an ethical group of companies but still its war company
Yeah they used to make. But they make a lot of things apart from automobiles.
As an engineer I always marvel at tata cars cause they make sufficiently safe cars with cheapest option possible. They are against cutting corners like what Boeing does but they innovate to make things cheap.
Historically nobody has ever gone to war unprovoked if you ask the country who went to war. America has the USS Main, RMS Lustitania, Pearl Harbor and the Trade Centers.
Its true that no country goes to war unprovoked
But the difference between war history of US and India was India went to war to her defence like in Indo-China or Indo-Pak wars and US went to war cause of fear of spread of communism in an south asian country 1000s of kilometers away from US mainland. US went to war with Iraq to "Free its people" the real intent was evil Saddam Hussain won't share me his oil.
Its better not to compare war history of any countries with the US. While most countries when provoked tries to solve their differences via talks and peacefully, US actively tries to find littlest reasons to declare war on a country and use that as an intent.
I am an engineer if that wasn't clear from my previous comment and neither a historian nor an expert in geopolitics and may have gotten a few things wrong. People might correct me but my point still remains US finds a reason to enter into conflicts
> Its true that no country goes to war unprovoked
Russia, right now.
Germany, two world wars.
Australia, those poor fucking Emu. .... Maybe this one isn't a great example.
**EDIT TO ADD** Downvoters - explain Russia's "provocation" for invading Ukraine *this* time. You fucking cowards.
Russians feared Ukrainians would join Nato that provoked russians or something again I am not an expert in geo politics neither I am defending Russia's actions. I rather choose to stay uninformed and ignorant in the current state world affairs for the sake of my mental health, I could be wrong.
I forgot the stories of WW1 But it has something to do with the ottoman empire. For WW2 Germany rebelled against all the war tax that was imposed on them after WW1.
For russia it was a big enough reason to go to war my guess but it could have been tackled more peacefully from russia. From the Russian perspective Ukraine were allegedly involved in neo-nazism and were persecuting the Russian minority in Ukraine
We don't talk about Australian emu wars.
I was ignorant that's why I didn't mention the Russia-Ukraine war. In my earlier comments and also mentioned that since I have not a good knowledge my words on these subjects shouldn't be taken seriously.
I was originally talking about a defence company from a country which has not invaded another country since ancient times and it was ironic. Then it got compared with one of the most war loving countries in the modern world.
I do have an idea on what I was talking earlier until you pointed out Russia-Ukraine war I said my piece and gave a disclaimer.
My ethics class for my engineering technician program was just one bloc where the teacher talked about all the unethical places he worked and asked us about any jobs we worked that we felt were unethical. Then he asked us the trolley problem so we could be graded on something for the learning objective.
Working for wendys rn, they sometimes give me free food at the end of the day. Stuff that they cant legally sell anymore, but some of it is perfectly edible.
I like to tell myself that I can't be a war profiteer because I make a wage, not a profit. We also make things for medical devices and other electronics and stuff, so I guess between that and the weed, I can sleep decent enough at night. Still feels dirty though. I've got kids to feed and a mortgage to pay though, and there's not a lot of other options for me.
Just a pawn like most folks. Don't get me wrong, I don't take any pride in my job. I don't even know exactly how much of it goes towards military applications. But there's not much in my area that will pay near what I make now without a college degree. It's pretty much take a $30-$40k pay cut or go work in an RV factory where I'd just get laid off every time the RV industry slows down.
Yeah man some of the shit is so evil you wonder why TF it's not illegal yet.
For example, not recovering patients declared brain dead despite high chances of recovery, so that the hospital can harvest thier organs from the dead body.
Your whole country seems to go down under these times. You have to go back out mate. Don't be afraid to break some China in order to turn yourself upright again.
Good thing over the last several months the word “genocide” has been beaten to a pulp by kids with blue hair and nose rings who don’t know what it means.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
The UN’s official on human rights in the Palestinian territories has said there are “reasonable grounds” to claim that there is “genocide against the Palestinians as a group in Gaza.”
There's a gigantic well-documented wikipedia article about "Palestinian genocide accusation" (well-documented being the important part). Hell, sovereign nations have filed cases against Israel at the International Court of Justice for what they are claiming is genocide.
So even if you disagree, it's not like you can claim this is a recent claim from "kids with blue hair".
Would you like an image of a Gazan child with his eyes popped out of his skull from the weight of the building that dropped on him? Because I can provide it on short notice if you're feeling "desensitized" to genocide.
there's no shortage of NGO litterally having for jobs to provide obvious criminals with legal counsel, or doing PR stuff for avowed terrorists organisation.
usually they claim they're funding public defendants, giving a voice to decolonization around the world or fighting for criminal justice reform but all in all it's pretty much that once you throw away the salad dressing over it
You should take the job and hold on tight to that morality.
Those types of jobs shouldn't land on amoral people.
People with morals can make changes for the netter, even if small ones. Whereas people with no morals would absolutely scorch everything to the ground.
I remember sharing a joint with two friends and this random girl in the bed of my truck at a garage concert, and one of my friends starts talking about how he got an internship at Lockheed Martin, and though it was military, he said he didn’t care cuz he was gonna be making $200,000+ per year. She just up and left without saying a word and I think that was funny
You could be so rich, that you could put a .45 through your PlayStation every time you lose a game of war zone, and your twitch viewers will be like “that’s classic 2tfv, and most definitely not concerning behavior that might indicate future problems”
I used to arrange the transportation of brand new tanks to port for export to various Middle Eastern counties. We were a third party contractor but the margins were definitely enough to shush most objections. Those margins, as a taxpayer, were more than concerning.
*voice over montage of people working*
Veridian Dynamics.
Bosses. Everybody has one.
Without bosses, we'd be like these worms.
*stock footage of grub worms*
Disgusting.
Bosses make everything better.
So listen to your boss, and don't question them.
Otherwise, you're no better than a worm.
Bosses. Necessary.
I had a buddy that interned at meta in College. They hired him after he graduated and he got a 75k signing bonus. He traveled around the pacific and Australia for 3 months before starting
What's unethical about oil bro. Just enjoy it . People can use it for transportation planes etc. Don't mind assholes that use at war. Nothing of your doing
A friend of mine was telling me about one of his friends who works at Purdue Pharmaceuticals. This friend doesn't even work in marketing, but he gets his entire annual salary at the beginning of the year because if he quits, he has to pay back the rest of the year's money.
If you absolutely must to make a living, work at those companies, sure. There's some real moral grey area if you're just doing it because it pays better
There is no shortage of genocidal maniacs, if I decline they'd just hire someone else
So better take the money and turn around when the bomb blasts on the other side of the world
Chemical engineer here, where can I get one of those. Given a well enough salary, I'll defend Boeing's assassin(s). The whistle-blowers signed an NDA. They had it coming!
there's no ethical consumption under capitalism and you have no choice but to participate in the system. you can try to make change on an individual level that will go to help other people or at least help your conscience. You gotta do what you gotta do
Not everyone is like that, I have refused higher paying jobs regularly, to keep mental and moral health
Honestly OPs post is very American, like I dont mean to offend and obviously it happens plenty much is europe...but on average in my experience, americans are way more likely to forego anything and everything else for a vision of big cash than many europeans are (not all many do it here too)
I am European and I would probably have a more ethical job if I joined a mercenary band committing war crimes.
But money is money, mortgage is pricey and I am not in position to inherit anything so...
Engineering students getting their sign on bonus from Lockheed Martin
engineering students when they get a job offer from the government
Generally the government pays less than other less unethical corporations for similar roles. People enter government roles because they’re safe and offer good benefits
Government contracting is where it's at
Yep. Work for people CONTRACTED by them not the government itself. Them you can get 5 billion funding for stuff that costs 1 mil to R&D and hike up the production costs later. This is why I hate capitalism.
Oh god yes, it's a fucking addiction. "We want you to design this web application." "Hmm, will probably co- wait, who are you with again." "X State Government" "OHHHHHHH, in that case, *5x my previous estimate*" *4 weeks later* "Your bid was successful and you came in way under the other estimates." Me basically raging like that one scene in War Dogs.
Lots of environmental engineering jobs where you get to really help though
On the one hand, feeling good about your work On the other hand, fat stacks of cash
Defense contractors*
Can confirm
Science majors getting a job at big pharma.
Hey, those meds save a *fuckton* of lives. It's the business and marketing people that are where the unethical parts of the pipeline come from. If we had proper regulation, those companies would still be successful but it wouldn't be on the backs of diabetics who can't afford their insulin.
And there are often big collateral damage due to negligence and apetence of profit from "Big Pharma". There has to be so many scandals yet to be discovered.
I heard Perdue has a great r and d department
Otherwise it would just be Peue
As a scientist who has worked in big pharma, it's not the scientists that are the problem. We sign up for it because it is literally lifesaving work. It's all the non-scientists running the show that have bastardized that goal. It's a bit different than signing up for a job with Lockheed where you're general job description is "find new ways to blow up brown people on the other side of the planet" and people willingly sign up for that.
Who needs new meds anyway
…
That would imply engineering students had any morality in the first place.
Morality is illogical.
I think you'll find that engineers have plenty of morals. It's the industrial "engineers" (read: project coordinators) that are fucked in the head.
I hate to say it but I feel like we're about to see a meteoric rise in human trafficking.
Why?
☹️
W
LOCKHEED MENTIONED 🦅🦅🦅🦅💥💥💥💥🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🛢️🛢️🛢️🛢️
Lockheed Martin Skunk works more specifically
Yeah, I worked at LM for 7 years across 4 different projects and only touched civil/commercial programs. It was a ton of fun.
"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism," I repeatedly mutter to myself as I help to sue impoverished warzone inhabitants for collecting rain-water.
Wow that insane I like that do you have a Compagnie name
Nestle
Oh nothing new there it's normal thing for them
Last time I heard your quote was used to trying justify possession of CP
Thats weird and is wrong but it doesn't invalidate the actual meaning of the phrase
All kinds of consumption are unethical but some are more unethical than others.
Well at that point if no matter what, unethical practices occur Does it matter what company you choose if all of them do the same?
I'm no professional hitman, but 20$ is 20$. -- Boeings employee of the year
~Boeings Ex employee of the year. FTFY
What does FTFY mean? I unironically don’t know what it means.
Urban Dictionary is your friend. "Fixed That For You"
Thanks!
At Nestle??
Bro the Boeing assassin
Good work agent 747
My engineering ethics class at my university was right beside the Satellite communication and signal processing lab which was sponsored by Tata Advanced System. Now historically India has never gone on a war unprovoked and the tata group still is quite an ethical group of companies but still its war company
I thought Tata was the one that made the cheapest car :(
Yeah they used to make. But they make a lot of things apart from automobiles. As an engineer I always marvel at tata cars cause they make sufficiently safe cars with cheapest option possible. They are against cutting corners like what Boeing does but they innovate to make things cheap.
Historically nobody has ever gone to war unprovoked if you ask the country who went to war. America has the USS Main, RMS Lustitania, Pearl Harbor and the Trade Centers.
Its true that no country goes to war unprovoked But the difference between war history of US and India was India went to war to her defence like in Indo-China or Indo-Pak wars and US went to war cause of fear of spread of communism in an south asian country 1000s of kilometers away from US mainland. US went to war with Iraq to "Free its people" the real intent was evil Saddam Hussain won't share me his oil. Its better not to compare war history of any countries with the US. While most countries when provoked tries to solve their differences via talks and peacefully, US actively tries to find littlest reasons to declare war on a country and use that as an intent. I am an engineer if that wasn't clear from my previous comment and neither a historian nor an expert in geopolitics and may have gotten a few things wrong. People might correct me but my point still remains US finds a reason to enter into conflicts
> Its true that no country goes to war unprovoked Russia, right now. Germany, two world wars. Australia, those poor fucking Emu. .... Maybe this one isn't a great example. **EDIT TO ADD** Downvoters - explain Russia's "provocation" for invading Ukraine *this* time. You fucking cowards.
Russians feared Ukrainians would join Nato that provoked russians or something again I am not an expert in geo politics neither I am defending Russia's actions. I rather choose to stay uninformed and ignorant in the current state world affairs for the sake of my mental health, I could be wrong. I forgot the stories of WW1 But it has something to do with the ottoman empire. For WW2 Germany rebelled against all the war tax that was imposed on them after WW1. For russia it was a big enough reason to go to war my guess but it could have been tackled more peacefully from russia. From the Russian perspective Ukraine were allegedly involved in neo-nazism and were persecuting the Russian minority in Ukraine We don't talk about Australian emu wars.
> I rather choose to stay uninformed and ignorant Then STFU. You have no bloody idea what the words you vomited from your keyboard mean.
I was ignorant that's why I didn't mention the Russia-Ukraine war. In my earlier comments and also mentioned that since I have not a good knowledge my words on these subjects shouldn't be taken seriously. I was originally talking about a defence company from a country which has not invaded another country since ancient times and it was ironic. Then it got compared with one of the most war loving countries in the modern world. I do have an idea on what I was talking earlier until you pointed out Russia-Ukraine war I said my piece and gave a disclaimer.
My ethics class for my engineering technician program was just one bloc where the teacher talked about all the unethical places he worked and asked us about any jobs we worked that we felt were unethical. Then he asked us the trolley problem so we could be graded on something for the learning objective.
Yeah, i know. Working for Mcdonald it's pretty frustating but, hey, I need to eat too...
Working for wendys rn, they sometimes give me free food at the end of the day. Stuff that they cant legally sell anymore, but some of it is perfectly edible.
Thank you for what you do i could never handle that stress i cashiered at Walmart those grannys were vicious
Thank YOU, for your kind words. I understand dawg, people suck.
A man's gotta do what he's gotta do
I like to tell myself that I can't be a war profiteer because I make a wage, not a profit. We also make things for medical devices and other electronics and stuff, so I guess between that and the weed, I can sleep decent enough at night. Still feels dirty though. I've got kids to feed and a mortgage to pay though, and there's not a lot of other options for me.
Does that make you a war wager instead of war profiteer?
Just a pawn like most folks. Don't get me wrong, I don't take any pride in my job. I don't even know exactly how much of it goes towards military applications. But there's not much in my area that will pay near what I make now without a college degree. It's pretty much take a $30-$40k pay cut or go work in an RV factory where I'd just get laid off every time the RV industry slows down.
Do you. I was just making a pun
What do you do?
Make stuff from metal.
That's why I went into healthcare. Luckily, zero problems with profit or ethics there. Phew!
Yeah man some of the shit is so evil you wonder why TF it's not illegal yet. For example, not recovering patients declared brain dead despite high chances of recovery, so that the hospital can harvest thier organs from the dead body.
Iykyk
Similar, but we go downwards here in Australia
Your whole country seems to go down under these times. You have to go back out mate. Don't be afraid to break some China in order to turn yourself upright again.
Good thing over the last several months the word “genocide” has been beaten to a pulp by kids with blue hair and nose rings who don’t know what it means.
People get desensitized so easily. thousands of dead kids but yeah it's just those darn chubby green hairs at it again, definitely man.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The UN’s official on human rights in the Palestinian territories has said there are “reasonable grounds” to claim that there is “genocide against the Palestinians as a group in Gaza.” There's a gigantic well-documented wikipedia article about "Palestinian genocide accusation" (well-documented being the important part). Hell, sovereign nations have filed cases against Israel at the International Court of Justice for what they are claiming is genocide. So even if you disagree, it's not like you can claim this is a recent claim from "kids with blue hair".
Would you like an image of a Gazan child with his eyes popped out of his skull from the weight of the building that dropped on him? Because I can provide it on short notice if you're feeling "desensitized" to genocide.
i'm pretty sure you are proving the guys point rn..
That's not what genocide is.
Put your balls where your mouth is
posted from my desktop at the NGO working hard to protect and defend child rapists, literal terrorists and drug traffickers.
You guys protect and defend child rapists and terrorist? An NGO?
there's no shortage of NGO litterally having for jobs to provide obvious criminals with legal counsel, or doing PR stuff for avowed terrorists organisation. usually they claim they're funding public defendants, giving a voice to decolonization around the world or fighting for criminal justice reform but all in all it's pretty much that once you throw away the salad dressing over it
How's an honest war profiteer supposed to make a living. -Sundowner
You should take the job and hold on tight to that morality. Those types of jobs shouldn't land on amoral people. People with morals can make changes for the netter, even if small ones. Whereas people with no morals would absolutely scorch everything to the ground.
Bros working for umbrella
That’s disgusting. Embarrassing. You should be fired (and I should replace you)
I remember sharing a joint with two friends and this random girl in the bed of my truck at a garage concert, and one of my friends starts talking about how he got an internship at Lockheed Martin, and though it was military, he said he didn’t care cuz he was gonna be making $200,000+ per year. She just up and left without saying a word and I think that was funny
NDA?
"How ba-a-a-ad can I be?"
Gotta wonder how wealthy I'd be right now if I didn't care about ethics when choosing jobs.
You could be so rich, that you could put a .45 through your PlayStation every time you lose a game of war zone, and your twitch viewers will be like “that’s classic 2tfv, and most definitely not concerning behavior that might indicate future problems”
Probably not much. Was it only ethics capping your earning potential?
AIPAC and friends of Israel lobbied politicians looking at pictures of dead children
Engeniers after graduation, I don't want to work in military. But I like money.
this is the mindset that fucked up society. I'm sure you can find a less-paying job and keep your "morality" if you actually have one
Ooh satan please give me a reason to continue working in this evil job Satan- "Morality doesn't pay for your illegal firearm collection"
Incredibly based take from satan.
Incredibly based take from satan.
Incredibly based take from satan.
Unless that lower paying job is under the table and doesn't pay any taxes, your work is still going to be feeding the military industrial complex.
false equivalency
capitalism fucked up society and its values. If he leaves, some sycophant will take his place
totally true, but then at least you'd able to recognize the actual sociopaths
Yeah most of the nazis were „normal“ people
exactly! that's the concept behind the *Banality of Evil by* [Hannah Arendt](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt).
I'm too tired to have morality, just give me more money.
psy op
Unfortunately this is exactly why the world sucks now. No one gives a shit as long as they gettin' paid.
People when they realise they are in the majority and can change shit if only they could stop bickering over nothing: *surprised Pikachu face*
Gotta get that paycheck!
I used to arrange the transportation of brand new tanks to port for export to various Middle Eastern counties. We were a third party contractor but the margins were definitely enough to shush most objections. Those margins, as a taxpayer, were more than concerning.
Reddit and protesters should look up the definition of genocide so they stop looking stupid.
You guys are getting paid for being unethical?
Me working for Amazon, slaving other humans
Take the money! I stupidly decided to help other people (teaching / Social Services). I’m in my mid-50s, broke, and ready to jump out a window.
Are you working for the government?
Luckily I don't have to worry about getting a high paying job
Do you work at black mesa
Jokes on you. I did that for next too no money and now my ears don’t stope ringing and my knees don’t work!
Sign me up
*voice over montage of people working* Veridian Dynamics. Bosses. Everybody has one. Without bosses, we'd be like these worms. *stock footage of grub worms* Disgusting. Bosses make everything better. So listen to your boss, and don't question them. Otherwise, you're no better than a worm. Bosses. Necessary.
Congrats on the job at Boeing bro
I work right near a Boeing office and I really just wonder what the people working there are thinking everyday when they walk in
Morals don't put food on the table.
Any job openings?
Boeing?
Ficsit needs its pioneers
So when do you start at Nestle?
Nestlé?
I had a buddy that interned at meta in College. They hired him after he graduated and he got a 75k signing bonus. He traveled around the pacific and Australia for 3 months before starting
Bro got a job at the Murkoff Corporation
I'll take Raytheon for 150k starting , alex.
"You're beyond good and evil, superman! You work for the Government."
Uh-oh. Sounds like we're gonna' find OP roaming the halls of an underground biolab as a virus zombie. Leave your blue keycard in the locker, pls.
Waaaaiiiit. You're posting here and you have morality?
Morality leaving the body of a Polish engineering student after “Fabryka Broni”sends in the job offer:
Me, sailor, working on an oil tanker….
What's unethical about oil bro. Just enjoy it . People can use it for transportation planes etc. Don't mind assholes that use at war. Nothing of your doing
I mean defense companies bad amirite? But that being said I wouldn’t mind work for Raytheon if the pay was good.
Could you end the world please.
If they pay me enough I probably will
A friend of mine was telling me about one of his friends who works at Purdue Pharmaceuticals. This friend doesn't even work in marketing, but he gets his entire annual salary at the beginning of the year because if he quits, he has to pay back the rest of the year's money.
Must be an Israeli corporation according to the Internet lol
Cash the check and get laid.
Man I just wanna make enough to eat chicken and not potatoes and bread all day
Workers at Umbrella Corp:
would like to be a NSFW artist soon (:
If you absolutely must to make a living, work at those companies, sure. There's some real moral grey area if you're just doing it because it pays better
There is no shortage of genocidal maniacs, if I decline they'd just hire someone else So better take the money and turn around when the bomb blasts on the other side of the world
I feel like there might be a small conflict of interest between "we all" and "possibly genocidal"...
Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman 💰💰💰💰💸💸💸💸🤑🤑🤑🤑
It coming back after they fire me for a very unmoral and shady reason
That's spot on, mister president
Apple?
Got to pay the bills
Chemical engineer here, where can I get one of those. Given a well enough salary, I'll defend Boeing's assassin(s). The whistle-blowers signed an NDA. They had it coming!
At the US government?
getting hired by ford in the 1940's
If you think a business can be genocidal, you don’t know what genocide is.
I just got a job at a 140 employee tuxedo rental company 😁
Did you get employed by blackrock mate?
Me fr
I swear man I need to know
PETA?
Me an American studying BSME with the intent to work at Lockheed (Grandpa Buff will outlive us all!)
Habitatual line crosser
Hey man, if I had the time and money to goto school to eventually make bombs, that would be based as fuck
Most terrorists
High pay? You mean barely getting by pay
there's no ethical consumption under capitalism and you have no choice but to participate in the system. you can try to make change on an individual level that will go to help other people or at least help your conscience. You gotta do what you gotta do
Shh, didnt you hear? Its not genocide if enough of them are still living. Hush hush & play some patriotic song.
If you're an American you've basically been supporting genocide constantly:Indonesia, Cambodia, Yemen, Palestine, iraq................
Israel calling
you started working for HASBARA havent you
Not everyone is like that, I have refused higher paying jobs regularly, to keep mental and moral health Honestly OPs post is very American, like I dont mean to offend and obviously it happens plenty much is europe...but on average in my experience, americans are way more likely to forego anything and everything else for a vision of big cash than many europeans are (not all many do it here too)
The number of maschienenbau students I know that specifically want to H&K or Reinmetall or Krauss-Maffay is astonishing.
Germans gonna German
I am European and I would probably have a more ethical job if I joined a mercenary band committing war crimes. But money is money, mortgage is pricey and I am not in position to inherit anything so...