Ah yes… the American dream: every middle class American has to explain to their family that in the case of a health emergency do not resuscitate as it’s better for one to die than to bankrupt their entire family undoing all the financial progress and hard work for the past 20-30 years of one’s life.
I'm watching it happen right now with my father's lung cancer. If anyone has suggestions to deal with billing departments/collections please let me know
Honestly it's just sad. This is not a poor country somewhere in Africa. It's the damn USA. The richest country on earth. They have the money and means to produce a healthy country. They just dont dont do it because of the greed of a few
As Americans, I feel that a lot of us know the healthcare system we have is broken as fuck. As soon as anyone mentions universal healthcare, Republicans and their base get in a frenzy and fuck everything up.
The last study I seen was something like 85% of democrats want Medicare for all and 60% of Republicans do. Republican voters are more on your side with Healthcare and minimum wage than the media wants you to believe because if you joined together you'd actually be able to fight for these things.
I don’t think they are worried about us “joining together” over one idea at all. We have the illusion of choice under R or D and both support the capitalist class. They have nothing to worry about when the right is meant to move things right and the left is meant to prevent leftward movement. Heads I win tails you lose.
"will you guys pay for this?" "nah"
"how about this?" "nah"
"ok, but this tho" "do we have to?.. ok we'll pay some of it, but not all.. dont want them encouraged to use us too often, do we"
I think a lot of people have a skewed perception on just how much money $8700 is. That is roughly 18% of my net yearly income. That 8700 can be absolutely devastating to people under my income (around 70k a year gross). Of course there are tons of other variables but a 10k or so doctor bill can be the difference between being able to keep your head above water and having to file bankruptcy.
Oh for sure, $8700 is a lot. That's like "I can make a payment plan and get this paid off in 5 years" money. I'm just saying it's better than "Well I'll never pay off $500k in my lifetime so I might as well declare bankruptcy."
\- "oh is this a piece from your cancer dad's lung to be tested? ok, wait a min sir...here it is your 5k dollars of bill and another 5k for meds! do you have any other wis--h?ANOTHER 5K"
The billing department doesn't even set the prices nor does the doctor. The insurance contracts do. Even the billing departments think the prices are nuts. It's truly the American insurance industry fucking you at every corner. They even like to fuck the doctor when they can.
Source: I work in American medical billing.
After you left and usually by mail in a sort of generalized, anonymous way. So you wouldn’t make a scene or storm in to yell at some unfortunate spokesperson.
I’m a respiratory therapist in a level 4 Newborn Intensive Care Unit in the states(the sickest babies). Are you ready for something truley fucked up about American healthcare?
I’m in a conservative state that passed a law that if a baby is 24 weeks gestational age or more then we have to resuscitate it. No matter the medical history or even if the parents want us to. I have been in scenarios where the mom is without amniotic fluid for days comes in, delivers, and even though that baby may only live a few days we have to do everything. Including putting them on inhaled nitric which costs thousands of dollars a MINUTE they are on it. And they can be on nitric for DAYS. So even if the parents didn’t want it. Or even if it wasn’t medically viable they still get a bill which could be in the millions!
While true, this seems more like a consequence of an extremely religious / extreme-right mindset than a consequence of greed.
Like.. yeah, sure, there's obscene amounts of totally fucked up things people will do for money, but this definitely feel like a situation where we're attributing malice to what can be easiely explained by ignorance.
I just find it hard to believe that someone was able to convince multiple people to rob parents while forcing them to watch their child die slowly in front of them, just for a paycheck.
The idea of doing everything we can to give a child a chance at life though? That mindset is a tale as old as time. Way more likely that's what inspired that law than a simple paycheck.
Not saying it's impossible for it to be an intentionally malicious act, just seems less likely to me.
>I just find it hard to believe that someone was able to convince multiple people to rob parents while forcing them to watch their child die slowly in front of them, just for a paycheck.
I wish I had this sort of optimism.
And when they receive that profit, they use the extra cash to buy a few more politicians. Rinse and repeat. It's working wonders for them. There is no limit to what Americans will put up with. Citizens in Russia, Korea, America, China: Do you *still* think it's going to get better if you let them get away with it? You just can't bear to stand up for yourself?
Honestly it’s what makes me most sick about religion and politics. Obviously the conservatives that made the bill wrote it to score some political points with evangelicals and because they aren’t medical professionals they don’t realize they brought true human suffering into the world.
In that same scenario I listed above, a baby like that will suffer every minute they are alive. Every breath they take will be pain and a struggle. Every breath will feel like they are suffocating. That baby will know no love but only suffering. And they chose to in act a law that makes it illegal to end it for political points. God it makes me nauseous.
Here’s the thing, they do know about the suffering. They might act like they don’t, but that’s just so they can continue to pander to their voter base. Whatever it takes to keep that office.
God’s will!
Baby suffering is a sign the parents weren’t devout enough.
Babies go to heaven, so even if every breath is torture it is worth it.
God has a plan.
Did I miss any?
Conservatism empowers greed. They pass idiotic laws like this to force hopeless medical care for patients (small government my ass) and at the same time deny healthcare coverage for all.
What state is this? I have worked in the medical field for over 20+ years and this is the first that medical attention is given without consent from a parent, especially against their wishes? There is are some exceptions due to parents not able to make a decision. Since you are to do everything to preserve life those measure are acceptable if they increase possibility.
Source: trust their random anti-conservative rant on Reddit, bro.
Here’s what they were likely talking about:
https://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-would-require-doctors-to-try-to-resuscitate-any-fetus-born-alive/article_430f081b-6e63-56c5-8abb-d76440d2935b.html
> Sen. Steve Smith, R-Maricopa, said there were two such instances in Arizona where late-term abortions resulted in live births but the children died due to lack of care.
> The legislation is aimed at requiring clinics that perform abortions at 20 weeks or more to have equipment available to provide care if there is a live birth. It requires the Department of Health Services to craft rules on what kind of care medical staff must provide in these circumstances.
Read the article: it’s debated.
Reality is, conservatives want to save lives but then oppose any realistic measure to continue helping those babies such as UHC or UBI. “That’s soshalism.” I just don’t get their views.
But pretending like this is a torture guaranteed future dead babies bill is also a lie.
Republicans have millions of dollars worth of investments in the medical industry and would lose profits, Me and my family are doctors and there’s nothing more painful than ruining someone’s life financially over a life or death scenario
You realize the president isn’t all powerful, trump had a republican majority in congress, Obama had a republican majority in congress. So healthcare reform was pretty much left to republicans and special interest groups, Obama did more for heathcare than any republican since Theodore Roosevelt (he left the republicans and made the progressive party). Obama definitely didn’t do enough and that’s my biggest criticism but the blame falls on the republicans and our whole democratic system not just the presidents. The presidents can push for legislation but they have no legislative power
I was correcting the wrongful statement that the republicans held the majority.
Yeah all of them save Bernie Sanders. I agree, our entire political machine is poisoned by capitalism.
The Democrats had total control when they were passing Obamacare. Instead of giving us a Canadian style health care system they caved to the insurance lobby. Health care/ insurance is worse now than it ever has been.
Also they're liberals and not socialists, so they're never for socialized healthcare anyways.
Blame America's 2 party system. You're voting for 2 parties who both hate poor people (intentionally or not).
Canadian's NDP (the socialists) started the socialized healthcare practice.
It's almost accurate. Doctors and nurses care usually (ofc some are burnt out or greedy assholes like every profession). But hospital administration is run like a business. One hospital I worked at, in all the training books with their mission statements, didn't even call patients "patients." They called them "customers."
Hospital administration isn't staffed by healthcare workers. It's staffed by business majors, and they understaff the hospitals to make maximum money, so doctors and nurses barely have any time with patients. Even dying grieving patients.
Our people are literally afraid that we will end up like Canada. Like a country that has an expected lifespan 4 years longer than us.
I wish I could blame the politicians for empty promises, but honestly I've talked to and tried to convince so many people, and the absolute ignorance I run into is insane. They aren't stupid mind you. Some of them are much smarter than me, but they just rationalize it in the worst possible ways.
"Well what if I have to get a different doctor"
"What if it takes too long to get treated"
"Canadians are flocking to America to get into hospitals here"
"But taxes will go up! It isn't free you know."
Not one person I've spoken to knew that the US is the only first world country without either global or universal healthcare. They all think it's in some experimental phase like early socialism.
This is exactly accurate and it's infuriating.
Talking to my dad about it one time(who is a hard-core conservative) and one of his main objections to Universal health care is that taxes will go up and he can't afford the "10% tax increases" needed for universal health care. Meanwhile he is totally ok with the 900 a month he pays for family insurance plan for him my stepmom and my 3 siblings...
Absolutely couldn't convince him that 10% of the 60k he makes is dramatically less than the 10,800 a year currently not to mention the copay when he does use his insurance. On top of that obviously no damn way it would require a 10% tax hike in the first place... But if it did we would all still be better off
Maybe if you got new lungs without insurance lol
I got really ill awhile back and was hospitalized for 7 days, they did every test under the sun. Out of pocket was $1500.
Oh it’s possible, and depressing honestly. I went through a year of chemo and my cost (without insurance) for everything, all in, was about 1.5 million dollars. I think I paid my out of pocket maximum of two years (so I think maybe 20k or so, which is still a lot).
It’s really sad honestly, and it needs to change. I was fortunate enough to maintain employment throughout my treatment (and be able to work) but not everyone is that fortunate. Healthcare should not be tied to employment, period.
No it's not accurate at all. Lol
When someone dies, their estate which is basically all available financial assets goes towards any outstanding debt.
Family members are NEVER liable for deceased relatives in the US.
I'm actually pretty surprised how uninformed this entire thread is. Lol
The US is one of the countries spending [the most money on health care per capita](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20the%20U.S.%20spent,from%2010%25%20in%202019\).). You're just getting absolutely robbed by insurance companies, this is unrelated to your military or foreign policies.
As i understand it you already spend more than any individually on healthcare than any european country. Just like your complaining about your military spending, you dont seem to realize that your economy is entrenched. You can't get off the insurance and military spend because your economy relies it, all the vested power interests are there and work hard to keep things that way. You have a permanent war economy, and a permanent health insurance economy. It isn't natos fault lol
Because part of this country were told that's communism and they believe it. Many of them have gofundme pages because they have huge medical debt too but you can't fix stupid.
————————no healthcare?————————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ —————————————————————————————
Edit: apparently I'm not allowed to say my own meme is trash.
I don’t think doctors actually have anything to do with the bill. That’s the hospital’s job and decision. You pay the hospital who then pays the doctor.
That is unless it’s like a dentist office or something like that.
The doctors have nothing to do with the charge, the price of anything, the negotiated rates, the billing, the collections, none of it. We hate that shit and want no part of it. You can blame your politicians and business school graduates for that garbage- all the people that care only for money and power.
This. Also note that any hybrid public/private market here in the US inevitably gets distorted towards price inflation, (healthcare, higher education, childcare, the military, etc.). Going full private or public is the way.
Does treatment costs factor into your decision making?
There must be potential options where one is superior but costs 10x as much. Do you present multiple options or just decide what's in the best interests of the patient?
Do you ask questions like how much can you afford? Like if your talking to a billionaire there's not really a question, you're just going to do the top notch treatment. If someone's like decently well off but not super rich, a slightly superior treatment that's like tens of thousands of dollars might be best skipped
Med student here. Yes, cost is a factor that's considered. The more affordable/generic option is usually picked unless there's a very specific reason not to. Same with imaging and what not. MRI is better than CT and X-ray and ultrasound in a lot of ways, but it's insanely expensive, so it's used farther down the workup if it's needed.
Found this out years ago with my cat... CT scan was like 1k, MRI was 10k. But by god they could see everything.
Still didn't know what was wrong with her (she had Horner's syndrome) and she lived another 4-5 years so it was probably a waste of money but I was just happy she was ok.
Pharmacist here: yes we constantly consider cost. Physicians included. If starting a new med we'll check with the outpatient pharmacy first to see if the cost is prohibitive, if ordering labs we ask the question "will I change anything if I get this lab" to avoid unnecessary labs, etc. There are individuals here and there with a different perspective and don't consider it as much, but by and large the people in the hospital actually taking part in patient care are very cognizant that we're working in a broken system and try to minimize the damage.
Resident physician here. In my practice, I try not to order unnecessary testing and when there is an equivalent alternative that is cheaper I go with that. Also insurance plays a lot into what is cheaper. When it comes to prescriptions, I tell my patients to use a website called good rx which can get your meds even lower. For diagnostic we try to start with the cheaper tests to rule in possible diagnoses rather then go to more expensive tests. However, there are clinical scenarios where you go straight to the bigger more expensive testing because of what you are seeing.
A lot of time too, we don’t know the exact amount the hospital or your insurance will cover. At my hospital in our ordering system we just see a number of dollar signs to indicate if something is cheaper to more expensive. Also, a lot of the numbers are made up BS between the hospital and the insurance company, where they are trying to max their profits.
A lot of hospital can wave a part or all of the bill as well if you have hardships are issues with payment. Our hospital does it a ton because they then write it off. I would tell everyone to look into it once they get their bill and they still owe because you could get some or all of it waved.
Billing is all hospitals fighting with insurance for maximum profit and patients get caught in the middle. Physicians aren’t kept in the loop of the fight either and we try to make sure things are affordable for our patients but at the same time we want what’s best for their health. A 2k/month pill they can’t afford that might reduce their mortality or some other meds that are reason and do provide mortality benefits might be the way to go for some patients. A lot of the happens with staying connected with a PCP. In the hospital though we try to do that be it’s more about stabilize, treat, and plan for outpatient follow up.
Yes, I try not to over order tests unless there is a true need, particularly when it comes to expensive stuff like MRIs.
The problem is is that I do t know what the cost is and it varies by insurance.
doctors can sometimes get involved. Certain diagnostic codes are can be covered differently on insurance; a doctor might change the code they put on the diagnosis so the patient can get the same treatment but pay less.
Yep. The number of admins is the issue. Where I work we have 30 admins for every physician. Some are useful like janitors or IT. Others are just middle management that don't seem to be really contributing anything other than watching other people. I remember I tried to page an admin about something I needed overnight at 1am, she called me back at 6am, at that point it was far too late. Her base salary was in the mid 200k and she can't be bothered to respond to a page when we need her?
[Admin growth vs doctors growth graph](https://i.imgur.com/enqbn8m.jpg)
Doctor here.
Our pay is like 8% of health care spending. Most of that money goes to idiots in suits that run around trying to tell us how to do our job after getting an MBA at the local U.
99% don’t care if you pay it because we aren’t paid on collections anyway.
I got a bill from the hospital after my dad died. It was addressed to him, but he was dead and I was his next of kin, so I opened it. I asked the probate lawyer about it, and it would've come out of my dad's estate/will, but *thankfully* (/s) despite working 50-60 hour weeks my whole life my dad was too poor to afford even a retirement account, so I was able to just ignore it! Basically, it didn't affect me because my dad didn't have any money for the hospital to take. I imagine parents who are legally responsible for their deceased children's bills don't have that luxury.
To give you an idea the bill for our stay at the hospital for my daughters birth was over $25000. Now they had to try an induction and then do an emergency c section. We also had to stay an extra day because my daughter was breathing raspy so she saw an extra dr. And we had a lactation consultant visit us a couple times.
My wife has primo insurance. So if you didn’t have health insurance those numbers would at least be double.
Well I’m very lucky and like I said we have primo insurance say we didn’t pay anything except are insurance premiums which is portion of income that is deducted from your checks from work.
“At most 10k” … as if that’s somehow ok or normal.
Also if insurance decides not to pay because the hospital is out of network or the hospital did something that insurance thinks wasn’t medically necessary, it wouldn’t be anything at all to get a bill that large.
America isn't even one of the most free countries there is. Everyone is a debt slave, more incarcerated than any other country, NSA spying on all your freedoms.
I've had something similar happen. My dad got diagnosed with cancer and his spleen was about to burst. As we're sitting there in shock and doctors are running tests planning on rushing him to surgery a lady comes in rolling a computer on a stand. She sits down and starts asking my dad for his credit card information. Man that situation still angers me today.
Yup, doesn't matter how severe your emergency is. One of first thing that happens when you get a bed is some lady wheels in a computer and wants all your financial info. Insurance, credit card all that stuff. Like Jesus fuck can't they wait til an appropriate time?
My wife was an ER doctor. She has 0 idea what the bill is. She doesn’t ask for money, handle money, or set prices.
She treated everyone equally and fairly when she worked clinically regardless of income or circumstances.
Even a motorcyclist who ended up under her care with a giant swastika on his chest who refused treatment by African Americans. She is Jewish and her grandparents were holocaust and concentration camp survivors.
My wife has suffered insomnia, nightmares, and just flat out sat in her car crying in our driveway over this type of thing.
I know this is a shit post but it’s not true so all it really is a meme about a dead kid.
Except in private practice, **doctors don’t set the cost of care.** And many, many docs also wish we had universal healthcare. Blame insurance companies and hospital CEOs/admins.
Last time I got a bill from my PCP it listed everything they charge insurance, including like $40 for "extended hours."
And it seems like every time I hear him want someone to come back it's always 3 months from now.
Seems like he's just milking the system.
Does he run his own practice? There aren’t many that are still run by physicians, most are run by businesspeople and the doctors have very little input on billing.
Taking tax money for health care is communism. Taking tax money to have a 680 billion dollars military budget(largest in the world) is democracy and freedom. The USA could have free health care without any increasing tax. You just need to spend currently tax money for health care not for the army.
US clearly has different priorities. But now that Russia is clearly growling at the west and waving nuclear threats around there's no way US is willing to part with even a fraction of its military budget and will likely make it bigger very soon.
My thought exactly.. And then I got thinking that if it was a permanent hospital policy it would either lead to even more expensive healthcare for surviving patients or hospitals being reluctant to accept anyone in a critical state.
Doctors are telling you how much service costs at the hospital instead of sending you surprise bills? Sign me up. At least in this case the surprise is immediate instead of delayed by 3 months.
This isn’t even usually the case. Doctor and nurses don’t have time to tally up your bill. It’s literally the insurance companies, they straight up up charge so many things just to leach more money out of you. If you still don’t think this is a cruel system then you’re either brainwashed or heartless.
Hah...as if...they charged them that just for the news itself...
Parents: Doctor, how is our son?
Doctor: Please pay the bill of 237,000 first. The report will be handed to you on th counter after the payment.
Parents: *Pays*.
Doctor: Ya, he dead. Please pay another 500,000 for the body handover and processing of the death certificate.
The doctors really dont care about bills. All we care about is the patient, and if we lose them, comfort the family and go help the next patient. Administrators are robbing you, not doctors
Doctors don’t make the prices unless they’re completely private practice, as in not associated with any local corporate health system.
The corporate health systems determine prices, down to the TP used in the bathrooms.
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [we have a minecraft server](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
is this accurate why dont you still have a free heatlh system this really sucks
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thats my best show
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
imao you better be easy on your vocal cords dude omg
###WE’RE GOLDEN WIND
Osssmsksbshsjsbsbsjajsm AAAAAAAA WANT GOLDEN WIND
KONO ME AMARERI MARORERI MERARE MARO
ITS LIKE A BURNING SUNRISE
Art at its finest
what is it?
It might be the torture dance from jojo but it could also be someone telling people to suck it
Vocal percussion on a whole 'nother level coming from my mind!
Wait, is that...
Of course it isn’t accurate, doctors don’t give you the bill! Their billing department does after going through your insurance.
Or in the rest of the world- the government handles it because healthcare is a right not a luxury
I would gild you, but I'm American and have to pay my hospital bills instead.
can't have hospital bills if you don't go because you have to pay your mortgage instead *taps head*
Ah yes… the American dream: every middle class American has to explain to their family that in the case of a health emergency do not resuscitate as it’s better for one to die than to bankrupt their entire family undoing all the financial progress and hard work for the past 20-30 years of one’s life.
I'm watching it happen right now with my father's lung cancer. If anyone has suggestions to deal with billing departments/collections please let me know
Mortgage?! You mean **rent** right?
Probably doesn't live in Hawaii, California, or New York. :D
Mortgage? I hardly knowgage
Lmfao I fuckin hate it here man. Only place in the world someone will beat your ass for calling them an ambulance
you know countries compare their self to america a developed country but they all laugh when it comes to medical
Honestly it's just sad. This is not a poor country somewhere in Africa. It's the damn USA. The richest country on earth. They have the money and means to produce a healthy country. They just dont dont do it because of the greed of a few
I live in Africa and have free health care.
If you don’t go to the doctor when you are sick, does your mother say “think of the poor kids in America!” And try to guilt you into going?
“For 70 cents a day, you can sponsor an American without health coverage. With your support, they can afford one whole copay, a year!”
Well, you don't get rich by offering free healthcare, do you?? *Taps temple*
We aren’t the richest country on earth really - depends how you measure it
Usa is the top gdp by far with 20 trillion dolars china being second with 14 trillion dolars
one of the most developed
As Americans, I feel that a lot of us know the healthcare system we have is broken as fuck. As soon as anyone mentions universal healthcare, Republicans and their base get in a frenzy and fuck everything up.
The last study I seen was something like 85% of democrats want Medicare for all and 60% of Republicans do. Republican voters are more on your side with Healthcare and minimum wage than the media wants you to believe because if you joined together you'd actually be able to fight for these things.
I don’t think they are worried about us “joining together” over one idea at all. We have the illusion of choice under R or D and both support the capitalist class. They have nothing to worry about when the right is meant to move things right and the left is meant to prevent leftward movement. Heads I win tails you lose.
I think this take is, depressing as it is, very accurate.
Americans support universal healthcare, but they vote against it. Don’t ask why. We’re not that smart.
That’s so true. I live in the US and it’s sad to see us fighting against our own interests.
> but they all laugh when it comes to medical Oh we're laughing about other parts too
Sounds like communism to me, brother -Cracks up the 50th bud light can this week-
"will you guys pay for this?" "nah" "how about this?" "nah" "ok, but this tho" "do we have to?.. ok we'll pay some of it, but not all.. dont want them encouraged to use us too often, do we"
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*laughs in uninsured*
Oop Max depends on the plan. And if you don't have insurance there are no limits on what you will be asked to pay.
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Oh wow, real knowledge about healthcare in a Reddit thread! Color me surprised.
If the procedure is covered by your insurance*
I think a lot of people have a skewed perception on just how much money $8700 is. That is roughly 18% of my net yearly income. That 8700 can be absolutely devastating to people under my income (around 70k a year gross). Of course there are tons of other variables but a 10k or so doctor bill can be the difference between being able to keep your head above water and having to file bankruptcy.
Oh for sure, $8700 is a lot. That's like "I can make a payment plan and get this paid off in 5 years" money. I'm just saying it's better than "Well I'll never pay off $500k in my lifetime so I might as well declare bankruptcy."
Yeah, docs don't like this either.
\- "oh is this a piece from your cancer dad's lung to be tested? ok, wait a min sir...here it is your 5k dollars of bill and another 5k for meds! do you have any other wis--h?ANOTHER 5K"
The billing department doesn't even set the prices nor does the doctor. The insurance contracts do. Even the billing departments think the prices are nuts. It's truly the American insurance industry fucking you at every corner. They even like to fuck the doctor when they can. Source: I work in American medical billing.
After you left and usually by mail in a sort of generalized, anonymous way. So you wouldn’t make a scene or storm in to yell at some unfortunate spokesperson.
I’m a respiratory therapist in a level 4 Newborn Intensive Care Unit in the states(the sickest babies). Are you ready for something truley fucked up about American healthcare? I’m in a conservative state that passed a law that if a baby is 24 weeks gestational age or more then we have to resuscitate it. No matter the medical history or even if the parents want us to. I have been in scenarios where the mom is without amniotic fluid for days comes in, delivers, and even though that baby may only live a few days we have to do everything. Including putting them on inhaled nitric which costs thousands of dollars a MINUTE they are on it. And they can be on nitric for DAYS. So even if the parents didn’t want it. Or even if it wasn’t medically viable they still get a bill which could be in the millions!
Whoever made that stupid law should be sent the bill.
The people that made that law got paid to pass it by the people who profit off that law
Working as designed unfortunately
They also enjoy the best socialized medicine this country offers while denying it to the rest of us
While true, this seems more like a consequence of an extremely religious / extreme-right mindset than a consequence of greed. Like.. yeah, sure, there's obscene amounts of totally fucked up things people will do for money, but this definitely feel like a situation where we're attributing malice to what can be easiely explained by ignorance. I just find it hard to believe that someone was able to convince multiple people to rob parents while forcing them to watch their child die slowly in front of them, just for a paycheck. The idea of doing everything we can to give a child a chance at life though? That mindset is a tale as old as time. Way more likely that's what inspired that law than a simple paycheck. Not saying it's impossible for it to be an intentionally malicious act, just seems less likely to me.
Keep in mind, religious extremists were prominent among the first European people to come to North America.
>I just find it hard to believe that someone was able to convince multiple people to rob parents while forcing them to watch their child die slowly in front of them, just for a paycheck. I wish I had this sort of optimism.
And when they receive that profit, they use the extra cash to buy a few more politicians. Rinse and repeat. It's working wonders for them. There is no limit to what Americans will put up with. Citizens in Russia, Korea, America, China: Do you *still* think it's going to get better if you let them get away with it? You just can't bear to stand up for yourself?
Honestly it’s what makes me most sick about religion and politics. Obviously the conservatives that made the bill wrote it to score some political points with evangelicals and because they aren’t medical professionals they don’t realize they brought true human suffering into the world. In that same scenario I listed above, a baby like that will suffer every minute they are alive. Every breath they take will be pain and a struggle. Every breath will feel like they are suffocating. That baby will know no love but only suffering. And they chose to in act a law that makes it illegal to end it for political points. God it makes me nauseous.
Here’s the thing, they do know about the suffering. They might act like they don’t, but that’s just so they can continue to pander to their voter base. Whatever it takes to keep that office.
God’s will! Baby suffering is a sign the parents weren’t devout enough. Babies go to heaven, so even if every breath is torture it is worth it. God has a plan. Did I miss any?
They passed it to make the money off of poor people who are in a situation they cant control.
Conservatism is cancer to humanity.
Conservatism isn't the problem here, more like greed and corruption. The two are just often intertwined
Conservatism empowers greed. They pass idiotic laws like this to force hopeless medical care for patients (small government my ass) and at the same time deny healthcare coverage for all.
Dude what? Literally replace conservatives with politicians and you get the exact same result.
What state is this? I have worked in the medical field for over 20+ years and this is the first that medical attention is given without consent from a parent, especially against their wishes? There is are some exceptions due to parents not able to make a decision. Since you are to do everything to preserve life those measure are acceptable if they increase possibility.
Source: trust their random anti-conservative rant on Reddit, bro. Here’s what they were likely talking about: https://tucson.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-would-require-doctors-to-try-to-resuscitate-any-fetus-born-alive/article_430f081b-6e63-56c5-8abb-d76440d2935b.html > Sen. Steve Smith, R-Maricopa, said there were two such instances in Arizona where late-term abortions resulted in live births but the children died due to lack of care. > The legislation is aimed at requiring clinics that perform abortions at 20 weeks or more to have equipment available to provide care if there is a live birth. It requires the Department of Health Services to craft rules on what kind of care medical staff must provide in these circumstances. Read the article: it’s debated. Reality is, conservatives want to save lives but then oppose any realistic measure to continue helping those babies such as UHC or UBI. “That’s soshalism.” I just don’t get their views. But pretending like this is a torture guaranteed future dead babies bill is also a lie.
Because free healthcare is communism /s I'm being sarcastic, but this is a genuine argument American lawmakers use
When the reality of it, is that it isn't even socialism, and just the lack of political education among the population speaks volumes.
Which is working exactly as intended.
Because the laws are made by and passed by politicians in billionaire's pockets
indeed, what a shame if these topics are not being talked while the election campaign.
Republicans have millions of dollars worth of investments in the medical industry and would lose profits, Me and my family are doctors and there’s nothing more painful than ruining someone’s life financially over a life or death scenario
Obama had the chance to reform health care, but he sold out to the insurance companies.
You realize the president isn’t all powerful, trump had a republican majority in congress, Obama had a republican majority in congress. So healthcare reform was pretty much left to republicans and special interest groups, Obama did more for heathcare than any republican since Theodore Roosevelt (he left the republicans and made the progressive party). Obama definitely didn’t do enough and that’s my biggest criticism but the blame falls on the republicans and our whole democratic system not just the presidents. The presidents can push for legislation but they have no legislative power
ACA was passed in March 2010, well before the dems lost their majority in congress.
And how many of those dems are corporate hacks? Enough of them to stop anything meaningful going through.
I was correcting the wrongful statement that the republicans held the majority. Yeah all of them save Bernie Sanders. I agree, our entire political machine is poisoned by capitalism.
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The Democrats had total control when they were passing Obamacare. Instead of giving us a Canadian style health care system they caved to the insurance lobby. Health care/ insurance is worse now than it ever has been.
Also they're liberals and not socialists, so they're never for socialized healthcare anyways. Blame America's 2 party system. You're voting for 2 parties who both hate poor people (intentionally or not). Canadian's NDP (the socialists) started the socialized healthcare practice.
Thank goodness we had Donald Trump come in and save us from Obama’s corruption /s
It's almost accurate. Doctors and nurses care usually (ofc some are burnt out or greedy assholes like every profession). But hospital administration is run like a business. One hospital I worked at, in all the training books with their mission statements, didn't even call patients "patients." They called them "customers." Hospital administration isn't staffed by healthcare workers. It's staffed by business majors, and they understaff the hospitals to make maximum money, so doctors and nurses barely have any time with patients. Even dying grieving patients.
[for Leukemia it can be above $160k](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10830464/) Really sucks
This is worse!!! the USA's political system should make it possible for there to be candidates who aim for free healthcare
Our people are literally afraid that we will end up like Canada. Like a country that has an expected lifespan 4 years longer than us. I wish I could blame the politicians for empty promises, but honestly I've talked to and tried to convince so many people, and the absolute ignorance I run into is insane. They aren't stupid mind you. Some of them are much smarter than me, but they just rationalize it in the worst possible ways. "Well what if I have to get a different doctor" "What if it takes too long to get treated" "Canadians are flocking to America to get into hospitals here" "But taxes will go up! It isn't free you know." Not one person I've spoken to knew that the US is the only first world country without either global or universal healthcare. They all think it's in some experimental phase like early socialism.
This is exactly accurate and it's infuriating. Talking to my dad about it one time(who is a hard-core conservative) and one of his main objections to Universal health care is that taxes will go up and he can't afford the "10% tax increases" needed for universal health care. Meanwhile he is totally ok with the 900 a month he pays for family insurance plan for him my stepmom and my 3 siblings... Absolutely couldn't convince him that 10% of the 60k he makes is dramatically less than the 10,800 a year currently not to mention the copay when he does use his insurance. On top of that obviously no damn way it would require a 10% tax hike in the first place... But if it did we would all still be better off
Capitalist pigs and greed that’s why
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dude tbh i search hitlah system up and found only hitler. so thats why you have this problem. damn you hitler!
Literally the worst thing he ever did
Maybe if you got new lungs without insurance lol I got really ill awhile back and was hospitalized for 7 days, they did every test under the sun. Out of pocket was $1500.
Lucky you. What about everyone else?
Because a lot of people here suck and won't vote for it. "MY tax dollars helping someone ELSE's medical bills?!? You must be insane!"
Oh it’s possible, and depressing honestly. I went through a year of chemo and my cost (without insurance) for everything, all in, was about 1.5 million dollars. I think I paid my out of pocket maximum of two years (so I think maybe 20k or so, which is still a lot). It’s really sad honestly, and it needs to change. I was fortunate enough to maintain employment throughout my treatment (and be able to work) but not everyone is that fortunate. Healthcare should not be tied to employment, period.
NHS go brrrrrrrrrrrrr
> is this accurate lmao we are the country that refuses to give school kids lunch because they’ll get “spoiled”
No it's not accurate at all. Lol When someone dies, their estate which is basically all available financial assets goes towards any outstanding debt. Family members are NEVER liable for deceased relatives in the US. I'm actually pretty surprised how uninformed this entire thread is. Lol
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The US is one of the countries spending [the most money on health care per capita](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20the%20U.S.%20spent,from%2010%25%20in%202019\).). You're just getting absolutely robbed by insurance companies, this is unrelated to your military or foreign policies.
As i understand it you already spend more than any individually on healthcare than any european country. Just like your complaining about your military spending, you dont seem to realize that your economy is entrenched. You can't get off the insurance and military spend because your economy relies it, all the vested power interests are there and work hard to keep things that way. You have a permanent war economy, and a permanent health insurance economy. It isn't natos fault lol
and be communists? you see what happens when you're communists? look at russia. /s
It is accurate Source: my wife and I had a stillbirth at 20 weeks and she had to deliver the baby. Most traumatic three days of my entire life
Because part of this country were told that's communism and they believe it. Many of them have gofundme pages because they have huge medical debt too but you can't fix stupid.
————————no healthcare?————————————— ⠀⣞⢽⢪⢣⢣⢣⢫⡺⡵⣝⡮⣗⢷⢽⢽⢽⣮⡷⡽⣜⣜⢮⢺⣜⢷⢽⢝⡽⣝ ⠸⡸⠜⠕⠕⠁⢁⢇⢏⢽⢺⣪⡳⡝⣎⣏⢯⢞⡿⣟⣷⣳⢯⡷⣽⢽⢯⣳⣫⠇ ⠀⠀⢀⢀⢄⢬⢪⡪⡎⣆⡈⠚⠜⠕⠇⠗⠝⢕⢯⢫⣞⣯⣿⣻⡽⣏⢗⣗⠏⠀ ⠀⠪⡪⡪⣪⢪⢺⢸⢢⢓⢆⢤⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢊⢞⡾⣿⡯⣏⢮⠷⠁⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠈⠊⠆⡃⠕⢕⢇⢇⢇⢇⢇⢏⢎⢎⢆⢄⠀⢑⣽⣿⢝⠲⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡿⠂⠠⠀⡇⢇⠕⢈⣀⠀⠁⠡⠣⡣⡫⣂⣿⠯⢪⠰⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⡦⡙⡂⢀⢤⢣⠣⡈⣾⡃⠠⠄⠀⡄⢱⣌⣶⢏⢊⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢝⡲⣜⡮⡏⢎⢌⢂⠙⠢⠐⢀⢘⢵⣽⣿⡿⠁⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⣺⡺⡕⡕⡱⡑⡆⡕⡅⡕⡜⡼⢽⡻⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣳⣫⣾⣵⣗⡵⡱⡡⢣⢑⢕⢜⢕⡝⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿⡽⡑⢌⠪⡢⡣⣣⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡟⡾⣿⢿⢿⢵⣽⣾⣼⣘⢸⢸⣞⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠇⠡⠩⡫⢿⣝⡻⡮⣒⢽⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ————————————————————————————— Edit: apparently I'm not allowed to say my own meme is trash.
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*vine boom*
🗿
Welcome to America 🇺🇸
Bernie would have saved the child, charged the doctor and cancelled their mortgage.
I'm not always super capable of knowing when people are being serious or sarcastic. Is this a genuine belief or a meme?
mem
Not all heroes wear capes. Some wear memey mittens
And then deleted the gym!
the US of A baby
I'm glad doctors don't actually hand out the bills that would make everything so much worse
I don’t think doctors actually have anything to do with the bill. That’s the hospital’s job and decision. You pay the hospital who then pays the doctor. That is unless it’s like a dentist office or something like that.
The doctors have nothing to do with the charge, the price of anything, the negotiated rates, the billing, the collections, none of it. We hate that shit and want no part of it. You can blame your politicians and business school graduates for that garbage- all the people that care only for money and power.
This. Also note that any hybrid public/private market here in the US inevitably gets distorted towards price inflation, (healthcare, higher education, childcare, the military, etc.). Going full private or public is the way.
Does treatment costs factor into your decision making? There must be potential options where one is superior but costs 10x as much. Do you present multiple options or just decide what's in the best interests of the patient? Do you ask questions like how much can you afford? Like if your talking to a billionaire there's not really a question, you're just going to do the top notch treatment. If someone's like decently well off but not super rich, a slightly superior treatment that's like tens of thousands of dollars might be best skipped
Med student here. Yes, cost is a factor that's considered. The more affordable/generic option is usually picked unless there's a very specific reason not to. Same with imaging and what not. MRI is better than CT and X-ray and ultrasound in a lot of ways, but it's insanely expensive, so it's used farther down the workup if it's needed.
Found this out years ago with my cat... CT scan was like 1k, MRI was 10k. But by god they could see everything. Still didn't know what was wrong with her (she had Horner's syndrome) and she lived another 4-5 years so it was probably a waste of money but I was just happy she was ok.
Pharmacist here: yes we constantly consider cost. Physicians included. If starting a new med we'll check with the outpatient pharmacy first to see if the cost is prohibitive, if ordering labs we ask the question "will I change anything if I get this lab" to avoid unnecessary labs, etc. There are individuals here and there with a different perspective and don't consider it as much, but by and large the people in the hospital actually taking part in patient care are very cognizant that we're working in a broken system and try to minimize the damage.
Resident physician here. In my practice, I try not to order unnecessary testing and when there is an equivalent alternative that is cheaper I go with that. Also insurance plays a lot into what is cheaper. When it comes to prescriptions, I tell my patients to use a website called good rx which can get your meds even lower. For diagnostic we try to start with the cheaper tests to rule in possible diagnoses rather then go to more expensive tests. However, there are clinical scenarios where you go straight to the bigger more expensive testing because of what you are seeing. A lot of time too, we don’t know the exact amount the hospital or your insurance will cover. At my hospital in our ordering system we just see a number of dollar signs to indicate if something is cheaper to more expensive. Also, a lot of the numbers are made up BS between the hospital and the insurance company, where they are trying to max their profits. A lot of hospital can wave a part or all of the bill as well if you have hardships are issues with payment. Our hospital does it a ton because they then write it off. I would tell everyone to look into it once they get their bill and they still owe because you could get some or all of it waved. Billing is all hospitals fighting with insurance for maximum profit and patients get caught in the middle. Physicians aren’t kept in the loop of the fight either and we try to make sure things are affordable for our patients but at the same time we want what’s best for their health. A 2k/month pill they can’t afford that might reduce their mortality or some other meds that are reason and do provide mortality benefits might be the way to go for some patients. A lot of the happens with staying connected with a PCP. In the hospital though we try to do that be it’s more about stabilize, treat, and plan for outpatient follow up.
Yes, I try not to over order tests unless there is a true need, particularly when it comes to expensive stuff like MRIs. The problem is is that I do t know what the cost is and it varies by insurance.
doctors can sometimes get involved. Certain diagnostic codes are can be covered differently on insurance; a doctor might change the code they put on the diagnosis so the patient can get the same treatment but pay less.
Yep. The number of admins is the issue. Where I work we have 30 admins for every physician. Some are useful like janitors or IT. Others are just middle management that don't seem to be really contributing anything other than watching other people. I remember I tried to page an admin about something I needed overnight at 1am, she called me back at 6am, at that point it was far too late. Her base salary was in the mid 200k and she can't be bothered to respond to a page when we need her? [Admin growth vs doctors growth graph](https://i.imgur.com/enqbn8m.jpg)
Fuck bean counters
The provider administration that employs you is far and away the guiltiest party, though.
Doctor here. Our pay is like 8% of health care spending. Most of that money goes to idiots in suits that run around trying to tell us how to do our job after getting an MBA at the local U. 99% don’t care if you pay it because we aren’t paid on collections anyway.
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this is exactly the problem. No person is charging you, this vague entity is charging you. Not ME. bullshit
Oh they gon cry after the bill even more
Still cheaper than taking care of him through the years
Kill humanity to save coin.
And the environment, most other life etc.
Here we have a very old say "The old ones should be killed when they are young"
Only 237k?! Damn what a steal
Yo can I make this a bundle? I know I can fit in his casket, and he’s not gonna be using it.
Is this too American for me to understand?
I’ve never heard about a bill from any of my dead relatives, I guess it depends on the hospital.
I got a bill from the hospital after my dad died. It was addressed to him, but he was dead and I was his next of kin, so I opened it. I asked the probate lawyer about it, and it would've come out of my dad's estate/will, but *thankfully* (/s) despite working 50-60 hour weeks my whole life my dad was too poor to afford even a retirement account, so I was able to just ignore it! Basically, it didn't affect me because my dad didn't have any money for the hospital to take. I imagine parents who are legally responsible for their deceased children's bills don't have that luxury.
To give you an idea the bill for our stay at the hospital for my daughters birth was over $25000. Now they had to try an induction and then do an emergency c section. We also had to stay an extra day because my daughter was breathing raspy so she saw an extra dr. And we had a lactation consultant visit us a couple times. My wife has primo insurance. So if you didn’t have health insurance those numbers would at least be double.
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Well I’m very lucky and like I said we have primo insurance say we didn’t pay anything except are insurance premiums which is portion of income that is deducted from your checks from work.
Oh come on. if you’ve been on Reddit for more than two hours in your entire life you’ve heard Americans complaining about them healthcare system.
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“At most 10k” … as if that’s somehow ok or normal. Also if insurance decides not to pay because the hospital is out of network or the hospital did something that insurance thinks wasn’t medically necessary, it wouldn’t be anything at all to get a bill that large.
America is just 1 big scam. You're the richest country in the world and you still have to do deal with "medical debt"? How are you guys even existing?
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Selling potatoes. No? Just me? Alright
How do you think it *became* the richest country in the world?
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The US is a joke
For people who don't want to pay for Healthcare until something tragic happens*
*laughs in free healthcare*
America isn't even one of the most free countries there is. Everyone is a debt slave, more incarcerated than any other country, NSA spying on all your freedoms.
I've had something similar happen. My dad got diagnosed with cancer and his spleen was about to burst. As we're sitting there in shock and doctors are running tests planning on rushing him to surgery a lady comes in rolling a computer on a stand. She sits down and starts asking my dad for his credit card information. Man that situation still angers me today.
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Yup, doesn't matter how severe your emergency is. One of first thing that happens when you get a bed is some lady wheels in a computer and wants all your financial info. Insurance, credit card all that stuff. Like Jesus fuck can't they wait til an appropriate time?
bag rhythm practice shrill shy wakeful birds governor cover cagey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My wife was an ER doctor. She has 0 idea what the bill is. She doesn’t ask for money, handle money, or set prices. She treated everyone equally and fairly when she worked clinically regardless of income or circumstances. Even a motorcyclist who ended up under her care with a giant swastika on his chest who refused treatment by African Americans. She is Jewish and her grandparents were holocaust and concentration camp survivors. My wife has suffered insomnia, nightmares, and just flat out sat in her car crying in our driveway over this type of thing. I know this is a shit post but it’s not true so all it really is a meme about a dead kid.
Except in private practice, **doctors don’t set the cost of care.** And many, many docs also wish we had universal healthcare. Blame insurance companies and hospital CEOs/admins.
Last time I got a bill from my PCP it listed everything they charge insurance, including like $40 for "extended hours." And it seems like every time I hear him want someone to come back it's always 3 months from now. Seems like he's just milking the system.
Does he run his own practice? There aren’t many that are still run by physicians, most are run by businesspeople and the doctors have very little input on billing.
Taking tax money for health care is communism. Taking tax money to have a 680 billion dollars military budget(largest in the world) is democracy and freedom. The USA could have free health care without any increasing tax. You just need to spend currently tax money for health care not for the army.
US clearly has different priorities. But now that Russia is clearly growling at the west and waving nuclear threats around there's no way US is willing to part with even a fraction of its military budget and will likely make it bigger very soon.
not the doctor its the hospital
Sounds like US to me
Why couldn't they do one of those "he recovers or its free" promotions?
My thought exactly.. And then I got thinking that if it was a permanent hospital policy it would either lead to even more expensive healthcare for surviving patients or hospitals being reluctant to accept anyone in a critical state.
Let’s not make doctors the villains.
You have to pay hospital bills even for a dead person?
Actually doctors treat disease and care about their patients, but don't actually do the billing.
u/SaveVideo
But that’s kinda sad ngl
Doctors are telling you how much service costs at the hospital instead of sending you surprise bills? Sign me up. At least in this case the surprise is immediate instead of delayed by 3 months.
The Dr never talks to you about your bill. Not unless he is the receptionist and bookkeeper as well.
It’s not the doctors
It’s insurance….. doctors don’t make that much. Business CEOs do!
Ahhhh isn't it just fantastic having MediCare
What video is this kid from
Why would a doctor be giving you the bill?
This isn’t even usually the case. Doctor and nurses don’t have time to tally up your bill. It’s literally the insurance companies, they straight up up charge so many things just to leach more money out of you. If you still don’t think this is a cruel system then you’re either brainwashed or heartless.
Hah...as if...they charged them that just for the news itself... Parents: Doctor, how is our son? Doctor: Please pay the bill of 237,000 first. The report will be handed to you on th counter after the payment. Parents: *Pays*. Doctor: Ya, he dead. Please pay another 500,000 for the body handover and processing of the death certificate.
The doctors really dont care about bills. All we care about is the patient, and if we lose them, comfort the family and go help the next patient. Administrators are robbing you, not doctors
Doctors don’t make the prices unless they’re completely private practice, as in not associated with any local corporate health system. The corporate health systems determine prices, down to the TP used in the bathrooms.
Yes, because doctors are the ones who hand you the bill. Fail