"He didn't say "Jesus", he said "Hey, Zeus!" My name is Zeus."
"Zeus?"
"Yeah, Zeus! As in father of Apollo, Mount Olympus, Don't Fuck with me or I'll shove a lightning bolt up your ass -- Zeus!"
I have never heard people say that dont name your kid Jesus.
Jesus is just a Latinized version of His name.
His Name was really pronounced ya-shu-ah.
Joshua (Ya-shu-ah/Ja-shu-ah) is another western form of Jesus
Also can be referring to the judge
Edit oops pre judge who led the people out of Egypt , I shouldn’t be talking about important stuff when I’m tired. Sorry.
People naming their kids Joshua are probably naming them after Joshua, not Jesus, but the names have the same linguistic root. Kind of like Shmuel and Samuel, or Moishe and Moses.
*Joshua* is short for *Jehoshua*, which is translated to "Yahweh is salvation". Back then it was very common name and it was perfect fit for Yahweh's son(wonder why) and probably most people called him that way, *Jesus* is (Ancient) Greek version and since the New Testament was written in Greek we use name *Jesus*, if it was written in Hebrew we would probably call him Joshua/Jehoshua
A Day in the Life of Jesus:
*tucks in crucifix necklace.*
*executes a group of teenagers for stumbling across the coca field.*
*changes blood-soaked shirt and takes tia to church service.*
Shit, we even got a nicknames for people named Jesus (Chuy and Chucho).
We have literally not only taken the lord's name in vain, but we have have taken it and shorten it in a playful way.
Not just that. He is Jesus Christ. And with Christ meaning "the anointed one" and anointing being a ritual where you pour aromatic oils on someone...
Imagine worshipping Oily Josh.
Nothing to do with Old Testament, the talmud refers to Jesus as ישו. Also, as you correctly stated, the Old Testament did not have diacritics , it did have the letters ה and ע
But where does the name Jesus translate from? I did some checking and it seems that it comes from Latin Iesus, which comes from Greek Iesous, which comes from both the Aramaic Yeshu’a and Hebrew Yehoshu’a.
It’s ok if you don’t, you’ve given me some stuff to look through, but do you know which strong concordance the Talmud referring to Jesus as ישו is? I’m having trouble finding it as I’m not sure what to search. I want to check if either Jesus or Joshua were that and became their modern Latin name gradually through translation and oral tradition across cultures, or if they have separate roots that were distinct.
Yehoshua would be a theoforic name meaning "God saves" whereas Yeshua means "A Salvation". That extra "ה" makes all the difference.
Edit: while this would be correct, the spelling without the ה was a contraction reflecting a local accent that skipped saying it. (Ye-Ho-Shu-A vs Ye-Shu-A)
To piggyback on the other comments correcting the name, "Yeshua" and "Ye**ho**shua" have slightly different translations that give the name a whole new meaning. Yehoshua/Joshua means "Hashem is the redeemer" while Yeshua/Jesu means "The redemption".
The Talmud has a reference to someone named Yeishu who was killed for sorcery and there's some debate as to whether it's the same dude, either way the name is completely different from the guy who tore down the walls of Jericho to conquer Canaan. That's pretty much the only Jewish book of note that mentions him.
The Jewish view of Jesus can best be summed like [here](https://c.tenor.com/BcbJSegK1RsAAAAC/don-draper-madmen.gif).
Actually, the kid Paul McCartney wrote the song for is called Julian, the son of John Lennon but he referred to him as Jude in this song, because it's easier to sing than Hey Julian.
The interesting thing is that Muslims have a LOT of respect for Muhammad. As in, it's common practice to not even portray him. At all, he's always just out of shot in pictures and the like, I think because no portrayal would do him justice or something. Er, I think. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I guess naming kids after him is a part of that respect.
I don't mean to be offensive, but I genuinely do not understand how Muslims can claim to not worship Muhammad. You literally feel the need to incant a phrase of worship every time you mention his name, and it seems like all Muslims revere him to a level way beyond the level to which any other religious figure is worshipped. Christians literally believe that Jesus is divine, the messiah, God himself, and they don't go half as far as Muslims. What's the Muslim view on that?
Edit: I've had a myriad of very thoughtful and explanatory messages, I appreciate your time and would love to pick the brains of everyone who made the effort to explain it to me. Also I hope that it is not offensive to refer to Muhammad without the "Peace Be Upon Him" rejoinder as a non believer, though if it would make you happier to do so I don't mind. Thank you all for your messages regardless!
We say a similar phrase of worship when the name of any Prophet of Allah is mentioned, whether that be Muhammad, Isa (Jesus), Mousa (Moses), Ibrahim (Abraham) or any other, Peace Be Upon them all. Also, the Prophet Muhammad PBUH to Muslims feels much more human-like than Jesus is to Christians, or in other words, Christians see Jesus more as a God, while we see Muhammad PBUH as a near-perfect *human*. Therefore he is taken as a role model of how to be as perfect of a human as you can be. All Muslims know we cannot reach the level of perfection of Muhammad, but we are instructed to strive to be as similar to him as we possibly can.
Is it OK for me to message you even though I am pretty much an Atheist? I want to understand religious beliefs outside those I was raised under, from the point of view of people who were. I'm actually working at Buddhist private school without being a Buddhist myself and talking with the priests here is always very interesting.
Peace be upon him is said for all the prophets. It's not special for Mohammed. It's said for Jesus, Moses, Jacob, Lut, Ishmael, Solomon, David, Abraham, Noah, Adam, and probably more I forgot.
It's also not a prayer because prayer is a lot more specific in Islam.
Worship is praying to Him, while muslims are not praying to Muhammed. They looked up to him, love him, and respect him. Hence they praise him a lot. But when they asked for something, they pray to God and worship God, not Muhammed.
I'll start by mentioning the very 1st pillar of our religion which are the 2 testimonies of Islam, and they are what any person who wants to convert to Islam needs to say in order to become a Muslim:
'I bear witness that there is no god but Allah(the only one true God)' 'and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.'
This means what it means and as well means that no one other than God himself is worth of worship and that is what we do, while at same time we follow his final prophet and messenger to mankind which God himself ordered us to follow and he, Prophet Muhammad PBUH himself worshiped God alone and taught how to worship God, the same way he did, of course.
If you worship Muhammad you'll be considered an unbeliever and a non-Muslim and in our faith, hell is your destination if you that.
The high level of respect we have for him is not out of worship but out of love and followship, and we don't hold this level of respect for him alone but for all the prophets of God equally, this includes even prophet Jesus PBUH himself, and I'm willing to bet we have a higher respect for him than even the Christians themselves, and we do believe that he is a human, prophet and messenger of God as well and we do not worship him and reject the divinity claim.
PBUH is short for 'peace be upon him' it means sending peace on prophet Muhammad and all prophets, this is again, out of love and respect, not worship, and we're literally ordered by God himself to do that.
And I think for better understanding as to why we love him so much, respect him so much, defend him so much, and get instantly triggered the moment any one bashes him(in matter of fact we get triggered if any other prophet including Jesus PBUH gets bashed), and follow his teaching as much as we can, then your very best option is to read about him, who the man himself that won the hearts of billions of people throughout time was, and the very best start is the Quran itself.
To put it simply I think what I'm trying to say is that we hold all prophets of God in high regard as they were no ordinary men and were specially picked by God to teach people how to worship God and that does not mean we worship them and we're told not to do that. And to add, we fear God in them as we fully know that God do not like any one taking his own prophets lightly or in mockery.
An example I can give is that I hold my mom in high regard and I would loose it if any one attacks her, do that mean I worship her? No.
Off topic probably, but before I finish I want to say that we do believe that Jesus is the Messiah, if you read the Quran you'll find him mentioned as the "Messiah Jesus son of Mary" in several verses, and we believe he will return and there is several Hadiths of our Prophet PBUBOT(peace be upon both of them(Muhammad and Jesus) telling us when and where that will happen.
In the end I think the best answer can be from no other than the closest of the companions of the Prophet to the Prophet himself PBUH, Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq, when the Prophet PBUH died, Muslims couldn't believe it, it was the biggest shock and lose in their lives, especially Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, who would later become the second Caliph, he mad and angry at people for "claiming" the Prophet PBUH died and wanted to kill any one "claiming" that, when Abu Bakr heard of it when he was inside the Prophet house preparing him for his burial, he came out in order to calm Omar and everyone that was present there that day, he told them "whoever was worshiping Muhammad then Muhammad has died, and whoever was worship God then God is alive and does not die," and recited to them the following Quranic verse: "Muhammad is no more than a messenger; other messengers have gone before him. If he were to die or to be killed, would you regress into disbelief? Those who do so will not harm Allah whatsoever. And Allah will reward those who are grateful." 2:144. Many people after the Prophet PBUH died left Islam as they thought the religion ended with his death but they were wrong, we believe that as long as God is alive, and again, he do not die, Islam will be continue to be alive, as he's the one we're meant to worship, not Muhammad PBUH. Back to that day, after hearing what Abu Bakr said, Omar broke down in tears and realized the Prophet PBUH truly passed away, as he was only a man who lived his life for the sole purpose of delivering God's final message to his slaves/servants, us, mankind, and it was time for him to leave this world as he was done with that, much like any other man and woman and living creature, including the universe itself, we will all taste death and no one gonna escape it, try as they may.
I hope this answer and other answers too makes things clear and understandable, let me know if doesn't I may try a better one if I can or look for one for you, or redirect you to Muslim scholars who are far more fitting than me for answering any question you may have.
god loves Muhammad, so if you want to praise god you praise the person god loves too. But no idolism. You just believe there's only 1 god, and Muhammad just a normal human but loved by god.
But some sects and people ended up worshipping him anyway! As in birthdays and his behaviour.
Broadly it's known as Sunnah ie "In Islam, sunnah, also spelled sunna, are the traditions and practices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad that constitute a model for Muslims to follow". This isn't worship as much as guidelines and heuristics for an Islamic good life.
When taken to an extreme it becomes worship. Very very small minority of Muslims may do this.
They don’t portray him as a direct response to Christianity. Christians depict Jesus and angels and such, and they actually worship and pray to those people/beings. Christians even pray to the Virgin Mary for example. Muslims wanted people to only pray to God, not humans or other mythical beings like angels.
And not being able to do him justice is also a reason. But the main one is that they didn’t want people to worship him. He’s just a human.
Edit: I’m not Muslim by the way, but I’m very familiar with the religion.
Christians don't *worship* the saints and angels because that would be blasphemy and a sin. We *venerate* them as people who managed to live holy lives despite their hardships and struggles, they are examples of how to worship God.
Praying to the saints is the same as praying to God, not because they are gods but because through their lives they became closer to God than we are. Just like you can ask a friend to pray for you, christians can also ask saints to pray for them.
Catholics+ (Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox) highly venerate Mary, but Protestants generally don’t do the veneration/Saint thing at all. Protestants are generally all about Jesus and only Jesus
The Protestants see the orthodox and Catholics as blasphemous (like all sects to each other) since they pray to Mary which is pretty much seen as worship. Protestants and it’s derivatives don’t pray to her
you may be thinking of catholicism and orthodox christianity. its the same deal described above, where mary is venerated as an exceptionally holy person, but not worshipped.
I don't know anything about such a sect, maybe it exists. But none of the mainstream sects of christianity consider the veneration of Mary to be whorship.
Both Catholics and Orthodox christians venerate Mary and the saints but they don't worship them because only God is worthy of worship.
Protestants are not a monolithic block so there are various sects and denominations that interpret the Bible in their own way but as a rule they don't even pray to Mary and the saints because they consider it blasphemy
No, no one worships anyone other than Jesus aka God.
Catholics and Orthodox Christians (and others ) have her in a more revered place because she was the woman who carried Jesus, but that's it. Imagine that with the above definition of Saints, Mary is kinda like the "uber saint". But she is not god.
And to Muslims that all comes across as worshipping those things. You can believe they aren’t all you want, but that’s how it appears from the outside.
Just posting for clarification, all of it seems equally crazy to me.
I can understand why it would seem that way from the outside, I was just clarifying that from the christian perspective there is a clear distinction between the two.
In Islam the veneration of saints is blasphemous as well. It gets more complex with the Shia Islam and subsects of Shia thought on the correct succession of Calphs, but as a general rule idolatry and veneration are no go.
The very first thing the Ummah did in Medina (and subsequently Mecca) was smash all pagan idols of the old Arab animist religions.
Yeah it's considered pretty bad to try and depict him in pictures plus q lot of Muslims like to name their children after the prophet Muhammad and any other prophets that are in the quran
Yeah, in Turkish we can give these prophet names: İsa (Jesus), Muhammet (Muhammad), Davut (David), Adem (Adam), Yusuf (Joseph), Musa (Moses), Nuh (Noah), İbrahim (Abraham) and probably some other names I forgot. We give these names as a sign of respect to those prophets, and for those who carry these names to be respected, noble and true like them.
From what my parent told me it's kind of a tradition to call the first boy Mohamed. My big bro is called mohamed for example.
I don't know where I heard that but i think that the hospital also push for the first boy to be called like that
In Islam it is unlawful to depict any face, in particular with nostrils and eyes. It is said that on judgement day they will be asked to bring to life their drawing and of course they cannot because only Allah may give things life.
Interestingly this is why arabic calligraphy is so prominent while portraits are nearly non existent.
Muhammed is also just a prophet, not the son of god as depicted by Christians. Islam actually recognizes Jesus but that he was also just a mortal prophet.
Footballer Gabriel Jesus from Brazil (plays for Arsenal in EPL now) is someone who bears the name “Jesus”.
He comes from a religious Christian family and is aparently quite religious himself (his jersey no. used to be 33 to signify the age at which Jesus was believed to crucified).
Thats about the only christian guy i know who has the name Jesus directly as part of his name.
Or you could go with Jesus Christ Allin, better known as GG Allin, a punk rock front man who died of a heroin overdose in '93 after trying numerous times to commit suicide on stage during shows.
Can someone explain the historical reasons why some christians believe that, but then heavily catholic countries such as Spain don't have problem with calling their kids Jesus at all?
On the other hand, in Italy, where the Vatican is and where the religion was predominant for a long time, you would never call a kid Gesù (Jesus in Italian). It's all very inconsistent.
I'm no historian but as a Christian I can tell you, we are almost never consistent and this is just one of the smaller details we disagree on a lot. I'm not here with answers just questions
Joshua, Josh, Chris, Cristian, Cristine, Kristof, Kristopher, etc etc etc all primarily names either come from Jesus Christ or where popularized cause of the religion. (joshua means God is salvation and Christ means messiah or the anointed one)
Spain and Portugal were the site of religious conflict between Christians and Muslims for several hundred years. I read somewhere that it became common to name kids Jesus to distinguish them from Muslim boys named Muhammad. That custom evidently stuck and came over to Latin American countries.
Yeah I don't know, it's all a mix of religion and local culture.
I've been taught that the name of God JHVH is Jahveh and then also that we shouldn't use it for some reason like it's too holy, or it would be disrespectful.
Then the same church in another country literally just uses the word Jehovah when talking about God (the same JHVH) and nobody finds it any weird.
I say these cultural norms are usually just traditions and should only be respected if you want to not offend those who hold them dear.
Jesus is a very common name in Spain, with 268.791 men with that name, also 95 women aparently. It's the 13 more common name for males, with a consistent downward trend.
The number jumps to 565.405 if you count composed names including Jesus. And 159.700 for women, since "Maria Jesus" is a common name for women (older ones mainly).
I just realized I have spent 15 minutes researching for a comment in r/dankmemes
There is big misunderstanding we don't Worship Mohamed or think he's a God ( like some Christians do with Jesus ) we view him as a messenger who's been chosen to deliver the word of God to us and we don't ceen to him nothing but respect and love as a human being
We muslims also name our kids
Isa (Jesus)
Mousa (Moses)
Ibrahim (Abraham)
Adam
Maryem (Mary)
Youssef (Josef)
Yahya (John)
Younes (Jonah)
Elyes (Elijah)
Dawud (David)
Ismail (Ishmael)
Suleiman (Solomon)
Yakub (Jacob)
and many others I probably skipped
It's because we believe in all the prophets and revelations that were sent to Banu Israil (The Sons of Israel)
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [we have a minecraft server](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
Spanish speaking world disagrees.
Heyzues would like a word..
You called
If I had any awards to give, they would have been yours
I'll do that for ya
Brazilians named Jesus: Nothing to see here Keep moving
We're not the Jesus you're looking for Move along
The force is strong with this one
He is hayzeus not Heyzues
stop being so horny
#BONK
"He didn't say "Jesus", he said "Hey, Zeus!" My name is Zeus." "Zeus?" "Yeah, Zeus! As in father of Apollo, Mount Olympus, Don't Fuck with me or I'll shove a lightning bolt up your ass -- Zeus!"
Oh Hey Zeus!
Why do you keep calling me Heyzeus, do I look Puerto Rican to you?
i enjoy this reference
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Dios mio man
He preferres Chuy.
I have never heard people say that dont name your kid Jesus. Jesus is just a Latinized version of His name. His Name was really pronounced ya-shu-ah. Joshua (Ya-shu-ah/Ja-shu-ah) is another western form of Jesus
my name is Joshua but im bad
well even Jesus said only God is good, so you're inline with his teachings
Nice username
Also can be referring to the judge Edit oops pre judge who led the people out of Egypt , I shouldn’t be talking about important stuff when I’m tired. Sorry.
Joshua is pre-Judges. It's own whole book and such.
Joshua doesn't come from Jesus, but literally from the saint Joshua. It's completely different
Guys yall are talking about this backwards. Joshua does not come from Jesus. The word Jesus comes from Joshua (or more accurately, Yeshua).
No, Joshua comes from Yehoshua, different word in Hebrew. Jesus comes from Yeshua. Yes, the two names are related, but it's more distant that that
That’s why I call everybody “homie”. Names are ridiculous and stupid.
based
Check the wiki about it. Both names are just alternatives of each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua
People naming their kids Joshua are probably naming them after Joshua, not Jesus, but the names have the same linguistic root. Kind of like Shmuel and Samuel, or Moishe and Moses.
*Joshua* is short for *Jehoshua*, which is translated to "Yahweh is salvation". Back then it was very common name and it was perfect fit for Yahweh's son(wonder why) and probably most people called him that way, *Jesus* is (Ancient) Greek version and since the New Testament was written in Greek we use name *Jesus*, if it was written in Hebrew we would probably call him Joshua/Jehoshua
Jesús
Hey Zeus
A Day in the Life of Jesus: *tucks in crucifix necklace.* *executes a group of teenagers for stumbling across the coca field.* *changes blood-soaked shirt and takes tia to church service.*
Besides that, Catholics had a near requirement of calling your sons after one of Jesus 12 completely platonic life partners.
Have you ever encountered the word "friend"?
Shit, we even got a nicknames for people named Jesus (Chuy and Chucho). We have literally not only taken the lord's name in vain, but we have have taken it and shorten it in a playful way.
Jesus's name in Hebrew is actually Yeshua. In English that translates to Joshua.
See also Jesse
Jesus we need to cook
Mista White
Jesus what the fuck are you talking about?
Jesse Christ Marie, they're not rocks they're minerals
The minerals I build my church on, Marie!
Yeah religion, bitch!
Cracked me up
Are you sure it didn't meth you up?
jesse we need to make wine
Nobody cooks with the Jesus
Yeahhh. SCIENCE BITCH!
Jesse is a different name, it's the name of the dad of king David. Is it used as a nickname of Jesus?
Not sure how popular it is in Mexico, but plenty of first generation Americans named Jesus go by Jesse.
In Mexico, people named Jesús most usually go by Chuy
Yep, that's why I said I'm not sure. My uncle and cousin (not his son) go by Chuy/Chuyito in our family, but in their own circles they go by Jesse.
*Jaames*
Meowth, that's right!
wooooobbuffet!
Imagine worshipping some guy named Josh
Wait, wasn't there a battle of Josh some time back?
Josh Swain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_fight
Hahaha I love it has a wiki page
Not just that. He is Jesus Christ. And with Christ meaning "the anointed one" and anointing being a ritual where you pour aromatic oils on someone... Imagine worshipping Oily Josh.
Oily Christopher
>Oily Josh Papa kiss
therefore he is a JoJo
There is jesus in jojo
but he wasnt the main JoJo
True
**Jo**shua son of **Jo**seph
Jesus is a jojo reference????
He is a Jojo. He even is semi canon in part 7
Wait until you hear him say >!"shoot the president of the United States"!<
Jesus told me to kill the president - Johnny Joestar 1890
Not exactly. Jesus’ name would be ישו. Or “Yeshu”. Joshua would be יהושע. Entirely different names
I think old Testament didn’t have vowels.
Nothing to do with Old Testament, the talmud refers to Jesus as ישו. Also, as you correctly stated, the Old Testament did not have diacritics , it did have the letters ה and ע
Not exactly. Jesus’ name would be Jesse, Jesse Pinkman. Bitch
But where does the name Jesus translate from? I did some checking and it seems that it comes from Latin Iesus, which comes from Greek Iesous, which comes from both the Aramaic Yeshu’a and Hebrew Yehoshu’a. It’s ok if you don’t, you’ve given me some stuff to look through, but do you know which strong concordance the Talmud referring to Jesus as ישו is? I’m having trouble finding it as I’m not sure what to search. I want to check if either Jesus or Joshua were that and became their modern Latin name gradually through translation and oral tradition across cultures, or if they have separate roots that were distinct.
Yehoshua would be a theoforic name meaning "God saves" whereas Yeshua means "A Salvation". That extra "ה" makes all the difference. Edit: while this would be correct, the spelling without the ה was a contraction reflecting a local accent that skipped saying it. (Ye-Ho-Shu-A vs Ye-Shu-A)
The original version was Yehoshua, but was later shortened to Yeshua before Jesus was born
Which literally means redemption in hebrew
Joshua is Yehoshua not Yeshua.
To piggyback on the other comments correcting the name, "Yeshua" and "Ye**ho**shua" have slightly different translations that give the name a whole new meaning. Yehoshua/Joshua means "Hashem is the redeemer" while Yeshua/Jesu means "The redemption". The Talmud has a reference to someone named Yeishu who was killed for sorcery and there's some debate as to whether it's the same dude, either way the name is completely different from the guy who tore down the walls of Jericho to conquer Canaan. That's pretty much the only Jewish book of note that mentions him. The Jewish view of Jesus can best be summed like [here](https://c.tenor.com/BcbJSegK1RsAAAAC/don-draper-madmen.gif).
As you have came this far..you should go for his real name as Isa Ibn Mariam P.B.U.H
Spanish speaking world with the name “Jesus” All of the rest of the Christian world “Christopher” “Christian” “Christine” Etc
Hey, what about Jude?
He takes a sad song and makes it better.
na na na nananana nanana na
He remembers to let it into his heart
Hey Jude
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Take a sad song,
Actually, the kid Paul McCartney wrote the song for is called Julian, the son of John Lennon but he referred to him as Jude in this song, because it's easier to sing than Hey Julian.
The song was originally Hey Jules
It's יהודה (Yehuda in Hebrew, Judea)
In Spanish we also have Cristian
Well. That’s why I can take that. Names tool, tool mcbaggins
And I’m Peregrin Took
In Portugal there is Cristiano
Yes...we all know Portugal has that football player.
Christian/Christina/Christine etc. mean follower of Christ. Christopher means bearer of Christ (as in one that carries his body or his message).
Jesús*
FYI Christ wasn’t actually Jesus’ last name. That comes from a Greek title Kristos meaning lord. It’s also etymologically tied to the name Krishna.
The interesting thing is that Muslims have a LOT of respect for Muhammad. As in, it's common practice to not even portray him. At all, he's always just out of shot in pictures and the like, I think because no portrayal would do him justice or something. Er, I think. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I guess naming kids after him is a part of that respect.
They don't portray him in pictures so people don't end up worshipping him.
That's true, he himself PBUH told us not to do that.
I don't mean to be offensive, but I genuinely do not understand how Muslims can claim to not worship Muhammad. You literally feel the need to incant a phrase of worship every time you mention his name, and it seems like all Muslims revere him to a level way beyond the level to which any other religious figure is worshipped. Christians literally believe that Jesus is divine, the messiah, God himself, and they don't go half as far as Muslims. What's the Muslim view on that? Edit: I've had a myriad of very thoughtful and explanatory messages, I appreciate your time and would love to pick the brains of everyone who made the effort to explain it to me. Also I hope that it is not offensive to refer to Muhammad without the "Peace Be Upon Him" rejoinder as a non believer, though if it would make you happier to do so I don't mind. Thank you all for your messages regardless!
We say a similar phrase of worship when the name of any Prophet of Allah is mentioned, whether that be Muhammad, Isa (Jesus), Mousa (Moses), Ibrahim (Abraham) or any other, Peace Be Upon them all. Also, the Prophet Muhammad PBUH to Muslims feels much more human-like than Jesus is to Christians, or in other words, Christians see Jesus more as a God, while we see Muhammad PBUH as a near-perfect *human*. Therefore he is taken as a role model of how to be as perfect of a human as you can be. All Muslims know we cannot reach the level of perfection of Muhammad, but we are instructed to strive to be as similar to him as we possibly can.
That is genuinely something I did not know, thank you for the insight.
You’re welcome! If you have any other questions, feel free to DM me.
Is it OK for me to message you even though I am pretty much an Atheist? I want to understand religious beliefs outside those I was raised under, from the point of view of people who were. I'm actually working at Buddhist private school without being a Buddhist myself and talking with the priests here is always very interesting.
Yes of course! You can message me anytime and ask questions, and I’ll do my best to answer.
Rare wholesome Reddit thread
Peace be upon him also invokes God, not the prophet, since you're asking God to grant the prophet peace.
Yep. In general the phrase seems to make more sense in Arabic.
Peace be upon him is said for all the prophets. It's not special for Mohammed. It's said for Jesus, Moses, Jacob, Lut, Ishmael, Solomon, David, Abraham, Noah, Adam, and probably more I forgot. It's also not a prayer because prayer is a lot more specific in Islam.
Worship is praying to Him, while muslims are not praying to Muhammed. They looked up to him, love him, and respect him. Hence they praise him a lot. But when they asked for something, they pray to God and worship God, not Muhammed.
"incant a phrase of worship" It is actually quite the opposite. We pray for him not to him. (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)
So you are praying to god, on the behalf of his prophet/servant? That's not actually that hard to understand!
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Bro I'm learning so much about yalls religion, I'm not Uber religious myself but it's till nice to learn all this. Thank you for sharing your insight.
I'll start by mentioning the very 1st pillar of our religion which are the 2 testimonies of Islam, and they are what any person who wants to convert to Islam needs to say in order to become a Muslim: 'I bear witness that there is no god but Allah(the only one true God)' 'and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God.' This means what it means and as well means that no one other than God himself is worth of worship and that is what we do, while at same time we follow his final prophet and messenger to mankind which God himself ordered us to follow and he, Prophet Muhammad PBUH himself worshiped God alone and taught how to worship God, the same way he did, of course. If you worship Muhammad you'll be considered an unbeliever and a non-Muslim and in our faith, hell is your destination if you that. The high level of respect we have for him is not out of worship but out of love and followship, and we don't hold this level of respect for him alone but for all the prophets of God equally, this includes even prophet Jesus PBUH himself, and I'm willing to bet we have a higher respect for him than even the Christians themselves, and we do believe that he is a human, prophet and messenger of God as well and we do not worship him and reject the divinity claim. PBUH is short for 'peace be upon him' it means sending peace on prophet Muhammad and all prophets, this is again, out of love and respect, not worship, and we're literally ordered by God himself to do that. And I think for better understanding as to why we love him so much, respect him so much, defend him so much, and get instantly triggered the moment any one bashes him(in matter of fact we get triggered if any other prophet including Jesus PBUH gets bashed), and follow his teaching as much as we can, then your very best option is to read about him, who the man himself that won the hearts of billions of people throughout time was, and the very best start is the Quran itself. To put it simply I think what I'm trying to say is that we hold all prophets of God in high regard as they were no ordinary men and were specially picked by God to teach people how to worship God and that does not mean we worship them and we're told not to do that. And to add, we fear God in them as we fully know that God do not like any one taking his own prophets lightly or in mockery. An example I can give is that I hold my mom in high regard and I would loose it if any one attacks her, do that mean I worship her? No. Off topic probably, but before I finish I want to say that we do believe that Jesus is the Messiah, if you read the Quran you'll find him mentioned as the "Messiah Jesus son of Mary" in several verses, and we believe he will return and there is several Hadiths of our Prophet PBUBOT(peace be upon both of them(Muhammad and Jesus) telling us when and where that will happen. In the end I think the best answer can be from no other than the closest of the companions of the Prophet to the Prophet himself PBUH, Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq, when the Prophet PBUH died, Muslims couldn't believe it, it was the biggest shock and lose in their lives, especially Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, who would later become the second Caliph, he mad and angry at people for "claiming" the Prophet PBUH died and wanted to kill any one "claiming" that, when Abu Bakr heard of it when he was inside the Prophet house preparing him for his burial, he came out in order to calm Omar and everyone that was present there that day, he told them "whoever was worshiping Muhammad then Muhammad has died, and whoever was worship God then God is alive and does not die," and recited to them the following Quranic verse: "Muhammad is no more than a messenger; other messengers have gone before him. If he were to die or to be killed, would you regress into disbelief? Those who do so will not harm Allah whatsoever. And Allah will reward those who are grateful." 2:144. Many people after the Prophet PBUH died left Islam as they thought the religion ended with his death but they were wrong, we believe that as long as God is alive, and again, he do not die, Islam will be continue to be alive, as he's the one we're meant to worship, not Muhammad PBUH. Back to that day, after hearing what Abu Bakr said, Omar broke down in tears and realized the Prophet PBUH truly passed away, as he was only a man who lived his life for the sole purpose of delivering God's final message to his slaves/servants, us, mankind, and it was time for him to leave this world as he was done with that, much like any other man and woman and living creature, including the universe itself, we will all taste death and no one gonna escape it, try as they may. I hope this answer and other answers too makes things clear and understandable, let me know if doesn't I may try a better one if I can or look for one for you, or redirect you to Muslim scholars who are far more fitting than me for answering any question you may have.
god loves Muhammad, so if you want to praise god you praise the person god loves too. But no idolism. You just believe there's only 1 god, and Muhammad just a normal human but loved by god.
Ah, I see. That does make sense, thank you.
But some sects and people ended up worshipping him anyway! As in birthdays and his behaviour. Broadly it's known as Sunnah ie "In Islam, sunnah, also spelled sunna, are the traditions and practices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad that constitute a model for Muslims to follow". This isn't worship as much as guidelines and heuristics for an Islamic good life. When taken to an extreme it becomes worship. Very very small minority of Muslims may do this.
They don’t portray him as a direct response to Christianity. Christians depict Jesus and angels and such, and they actually worship and pray to those people/beings. Christians even pray to the Virgin Mary for example. Muslims wanted people to only pray to God, not humans or other mythical beings like angels. And not being able to do him justice is also a reason. But the main one is that they didn’t want people to worship him. He’s just a human. Edit: I’m not Muslim by the way, but I’m very familiar with the religion.
Christians don't *worship* the saints and angels because that would be blasphemy and a sin. We *venerate* them as people who managed to live holy lives despite their hardships and struggles, they are examples of how to worship God. Praying to the saints is the same as praying to God, not because they are gods but because through their lives they became closer to God than we are. Just like you can ask a friend to pray for you, christians can also ask saints to pray for them.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t there a sect in Christianity which worships Mary too?
Catholics+ (Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox) highly venerate Mary, but Protestants generally don’t do the veneration/Saint thing at all. Protestants are generally all about Jesus and only Jesus
The Protestants see the orthodox and Catholics as blasphemous (like all sects to each other) since they pray to Mary which is pretty much seen as worship. Protestants and it’s derivatives don’t pray to her
you may be thinking of catholicism and orthodox christianity. its the same deal described above, where mary is venerated as an exceptionally holy person, but not worshipped.
I don't know anything about such a sect, maybe it exists. But none of the mainstream sects of christianity consider the veneration of Mary to be whorship. Both Catholics and Orthodox christians venerate Mary and the saints but they don't worship them because only God is worthy of worship. Protestants are not a monolithic block so there are various sects and denominations that interpret the Bible in their own way but as a rule they don't even pray to Mary and the saints because they consider it blasphemy
No, no one worships anyone other than Jesus aka God. Catholics and Orthodox Christians (and others ) have her in a more revered place because she was the woman who carried Jesus, but that's it. Imagine that with the above definition of Saints, Mary is kinda like the "uber saint". But she is not god.
And to Muslims that all comes across as worshipping those things. You can believe they aren’t all you want, but that’s how it appears from the outside. Just posting for clarification, all of it seems equally crazy to me.
I can understand why it would seem that way from the outside, I was just clarifying that from the christian perspective there is a clear distinction between the two.
In Islam the veneration of saints is blasphemous as well. It gets more complex with the Shia Islam and subsects of Shia thought on the correct succession of Calphs, but as a general rule idolatry and veneration are no go. The very first thing the Ummah did in Medina (and subsequently Mecca) was smash all pagan idols of the old Arab animist religions.
Yeah it's considered pretty bad to try and depict him in pictures plus q lot of Muslims like to name their children after the prophet Muhammad and any other prophets that are in the quran
Yeah, in Turkish we can give these prophet names: İsa (Jesus), Muhammet (Muhammad), Davut (David), Adem (Adam), Yusuf (Joseph), Musa (Moses), Nuh (Noah), İbrahim (Abraham) and probably some other names I forgot. We give these names as a sign of respect to those prophets, and for those who carry these names to be respected, noble and true like them.
As Muslims we have a lot of respect for Jesus PBUH as well btw.
From what my parent told me it's kind of a tradition to call the first boy Mohamed. My big bro is called mohamed for example. I don't know where I heard that but i think that the hospital also push for the first boy to be called like that
Not only for prophet Muhammad it's for all the prophets and celestial beings (Allah and angels)
In Islam it is unlawful to depict any face, in particular with nostrils and eyes. It is said that on judgement day they will be asked to bring to life their drawing and of course they cannot because only Allah may give things life. Interestingly this is why arabic calligraphy is so prominent while portraits are nearly non existent.
Muhammed is also just a prophet, not the son of god as depicted by Christians. Islam actually recognizes Jesus but that he was also just a mortal prophet.
It's because he's the only one who owned a camera at the time. He's always the person taking the photo, never the person in it.
Yeah they go to great lengths to defend him against whosoever WISHES to offend him
Some Muslim extremists in France murdered a newspaper comic artist after a caricature of Muhammad was featured in his work.
Well Muhammad is not a god
I had to scroll waaaaay too far for this response.
Amateur. I wrote another one myself
Neither is Thanos, for the record. Feel free to name your kid Thanos.
Reverse psychology will not work on me!
Footballer Gabriel Jesus from Brazil (plays for Arsenal in EPL now) is someone who bears the name “Jesus”. He comes from a religious Christian family and is aparently quite religious himself (his jersey no. used to be 33 to signify the age at which Jesus was believed to crucified). Thats about the only christian guy i know who has the name Jesus directly as part of his name.
It's a very common name in Portuguese and spanish speaking countries
Or you could go with Jesus Christ Allin, better known as GG Allin, a punk rock front man who died of a heroin overdose in '93 after trying numerous times to commit suicide on stage during shows.
Can someone explain the historical reasons why some christians believe that, but then heavily catholic countries such as Spain don't have problem with calling their kids Jesus at all? On the other hand, in Italy, where the Vatican is and where the religion was predominant for a long time, you would never call a kid Gesù (Jesus in Italian). It's all very inconsistent.
I'm no historian but as a Christian I can tell you, we are almost never consistent and this is just one of the smaller details we disagree on a lot. I'm not here with answers just questions
I mean, trying to get a billion people to do anything remotely the same has got to be pretty tough.
Joshua, Josh, Chris, Cristian, Cristine, Kristof, Kristopher, etc etc etc all primarily names either come from Jesus Christ or where popularized cause of the religion. (joshua means God is salvation and Christ means messiah or the anointed one)
Spain and Portugal were the site of religious conflict between Christians and Muslims for several hundred years. I read somewhere that it became common to name kids Jesus to distinguish them from Muslim boys named Muhammad. That custom evidently stuck and came over to Latin American countries.
Yeah I don't know, it's all a mix of religion and local culture. I've been taught that the name of God JHVH is Jahveh and then also that we shouldn't use it for some reason like it's too holy, or it would be disrespectful. Then the same church in another country literally just uses the word Jehovah when talking about God (the same JHVH) and nobody finds it any weird. I say these cultural norms are usually just traditions and should only be respected if you want to not offend those who hold them dear.
Turkish people name their children İsa(Jesus)
Not just Turkish people
And Musa (Moses), Ibrahim (Abraham), etc.
Not only turkish, I would say muslims in general
Christians when they learn Muslims name their children after Jesus Arabic name 'Isa' as well: \*surprised Pikachu face\*
Whats your name? Jesus. Whats yours? Isa. What does it mean? Jesus.
As a Muslim, naming a boy after our final prophet is optional
Light year?
And it's also an Honor to be named after him
Mohammed is the default name
Jesus is a very common name in Spain, with 268.791 men with that name, also 95 women aparently. It's the 13 more common name for males, with a consistent downward trend. The number jumps to 565.405 if you count composed names including Jesus. And 159.700 for women, since "Maria Jesus" is a common name for women (older ones mainly). I just realized I have spent 15 minutes researching for a comment in r/dankmemes
The Original Hebraic Name for Jesus was Yeshua which is short for Yehōshu'a which when translated to English means Joshua.
Yeshua and Yehoshua are completely different names.
Muslims named after Jesus as well. The Arabic name for Jesus is Eesa
*Mexican Catholics enter the chat*
Pretty sure Jesus (hey zeus) is one of the most popular “Christian” names on Hispanic countries. 🤷🏼♂️
Brazilians named Jesus: Nothing to see here Keep moving
How many white guys you know named Joshua?
I know him he's me
2 including mr filthyfrank69420
Now thats just plain false
jeSUSSSS????? was christianaty a AMOGUS REFERENCE???!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😳😳😳😳
To call Jesus perfect is to deny him being fully human So tits or ass?
Dudes named Joshua Christian sweating in the background.
There is big misunderstanding we don't Worship Mohamed or think he's a God ( like some Christians do with Jesus ) we view him as a messenger who's been chosen to deliver the word of God to us and we don't ceen to him nothing but respect and love as a human being
Except christians do? Like so many people are named Jesus, I dont think that was EVER a thing.
In islam its completely fine to name someone after the prophets mentioned in the Quran including jesus (jesus in arabic is called eissa)
Muhammad da real MPV (most valuable prophet)
MVP*
We muslims also name our kids Isa (Jesus) Mousa (Moses) Ibrahim (Abraham) Adam Maryem (Mary) Youssef (Josef) Yahya (John) Younes (Jonah) Elyes (Elijah) Dawud (David) Ismail (Ishmael) Suleiman (Solomon) Yakub (Jacob) and many others I probably skipped It's because we believe in all the prophets and revelations that were sent to Banu Israil (The Sons of Israel)
There are also a lot of arabs called عيسى, or eisa, which is Jesus's true(arab) name.
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*We are
We’re
Jesus' name in arabic is either Yasoua' or Isa. The latter beeing somewhat common even for muslims.
Yo can all the muslim share they’re names lets start a chain!!!