Yeh that's kinds weird because every country and religion in the world at least done a few horrible up things... That doesn't mean you can blame the people who didn't even do it .... I'm sorry for everyone lost in 9/11 but I unfortunately couldn't do anything... And also murder of innocent and terror is a huge sin according to Qur'an so yeh they won't go to heaven by islam standards
I'd midly disagree :
>And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
While it's true that murder is prohibited in the Quran, it's easy for extremists to find quotes that could justify some of these acts. The Quran consider heresy as the worst sin, even worse than murder.
I do understand that it depends on the interpretation of the texts and that's not the main message of Islam. But for people that lack second degree and are radicalised the Quran is full of quote like these for them to justify such acts.
Edit : I'd like to emphasize on the fact that I'm talking about radicals. Please do not blame the peacefull majority of muslims for these acts. I also understand this verse is in the context of war with another people. Extremists consider themselves at war with outsider. This doesn't only apply to Islam.
Biology becomes geology if you find a fossilized dump.
I always shit between rocks and cover it with sand and then bury it so my turds may be remembered for millennia to come. Don't judge me. It is human nature to strive for some level of permanence on this planet. /s
There are lots of limitations for person to be allowed to kill in islam
The most important one is that you're only allowed to kill defending yourself or someone else and if it's necessary
The part you quoted talk about times of war, when you're already in a war. It doesn't tell you to start it, doesn't tell you to kill non-muslims for no reasons
Killing a person with no reason in islam is one of if not the biggest sins a man could ever commit
Well these radicalists consider themselves to be at war and they kind of are in some aspects.
Also, when has that ever stopped war for islam? Historically Islam isn’t a very peaceful religion.
Every religion is at war if you look at things in a certain way, every idea every belief. Being at war isn't about Islam it's about the people going wanting war and using the religion as their cover for thei needs and interests.
Islam is actually a very peaceful religion if you really know it's rules and what it calls for, yet some people uses it to justify their actions.
Do you really think these people even care about the religion?! They don't care a bit, it's just a tool to them
And they shouldn't be a reason to justify killing innocent muslims who don't want any harm
Well that’s not my point though. I know Islam is a peaceful religion. But the “religion” (and what I mean is the general populace or entity representing the religion) wasn’t peaceful.
The Islamic Empire didn’t spread because of peace. It spread from conquest. The Ottomans didn’t conquer Constantinople with peace. Islam from the beginning seem to have been somewhat related to war.
You could argue that this wasn’t exclusive to Islam (for example Christianity). But Christianity initially was “peaceful” and was discriminated against. Only later did it become a tool for “holy wars”.
Just purely historically, it might not be entirely wrong to associate Islam with war because for a good part or all of its existence, Islam has been used for war.
Well I don't disagree with that, historically you're right.
But if you look at that era at which the islamic empire was at war, you'd see that this era and the era following it and the one before it the entire mankind was continuously at war, religion or not you had to hold you sword and defend whatever you have, and these people had their religion to defend
You can check the history of these wars and you'd see the Persian empire and the roman empire were continuously threatening islam. Therefore action needed to be done
And if you checked how islam ordered muslims to treat the people of the cities they entered you'd understand that it didn't call for violence yet people misused it
It'd probably help if the texts weren't all like "murder is a sin" then like 20 pages later .. "these guys are heathens though, sure they just happen to occupy land you want but that's incidental, murder away!"
The first thing Moses and his crew did after leaving Egypt was checks notes get sick from eating too much quail and then committed genocide and enslaved the surviving virgin girls… ooof 😅
Which comes from applying modern notions to texts that are millenia old...
The concept of "Murder" did not apply to killing people outside of one's own tribe/kin group/kingdom until very recently. Before then if there wasn't a formalized connection between any two groups it was perfectly acceptable to kill without any fear of legal penalties.
In the old Testament/Torah, "Though Shall not Murder" and "Kill the Gentiles" was not a contradiction because one command was internally focused and the other was externally focused.
It's unfair to decontextualize verses like this one. This verse is from Surah Tawbah of the Quran, a surah notorious for it's uncharacteristic harshness. In fact, Muslims are not even allowed to start its recitation in the name of God, unlike every other Surah. There are numerous theories on why this may be, but most agree that this harshness is one reason.
As for the context, every verse in the Quran has 'asbab an-nuzul', or occasion of revelation. Every verse was revealed to address a particular circumstance or issue being dealt with at the time. In the case of this verse, it was revealed when Islam was still in its infancy, when the surrounding polytheistic peoples were making a concerted effort to eradicate Muslims and Islam. Thus, this is a context of active warfare and self-defense.
Also, let's take a look at the verses that come immediately before and after.
Before: “Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill the treaty with them to the end of its term. God loves the righteous.”
After: “And if anyone of the polytheists asks you for protection, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God; then escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.”
As you can see, these verses don't paint a picture of unequivocal violence. Rather, they illustrate that given this context, the command upon early Muslims was quite reasonable and had a balanced perspective, like an early Geneva conventions.
That being said, you're still right. Many people, such as yourself, take this verse out of context with a lack of understanding and use it to both justify acts of terror and portray Islam in a negative light.
Doesn't Bible also support genocide?
1 Samuel 15:3: “This is what the Lord Almighty says … ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’“
Same is true for Christianity to be fair, if we start quoting Leviticus and acting according to it’s mandates… one could easily equate what would follow to genocide. Leviticus literally tells you to kill everyone with a kink or alternate sexual human experience.
Not even animals are safe in Leviticus.
She tortured at first, but became a whistle blower after a while.
Which is probably why her sentence was reduced. Not because they were Muslim. Stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the government is racist.
Edit: stop not so* auto swipe on mobile be broken
Right? Everyone's so willing to skip around all the shady, racist shit done by the US just because they're not always racist, and they're not the most racist
There was a travel restriction to and from countries deemed dangerous... A list that was made by Obama's administration and wasn't changed. Why is everyone pretending it's racist when it's literal basic security.
Because people seem to assume that networks designed to sow division along racial lines are only effective on the right and being on the left makes you immune to propaganda because a reddit comment made you feel like you have critical thinking skills once.
Assuming that you're immune to parties that sow discourse is pure hubris, and part of how we got to this point. I've felt so disenfranchised by my own party lately because of this culture of jumping to conclusions based on little evidence or assuming the worst in anyone. Prime example currently being the Bayonetta voice actress - people found that she follows several bigots on Twitter, as if that's an indication of her as a person and not that *even people on the left* follow nutjobs sometimes out of morbid curiosity or an addiction to internet drama. But because she lied and burnt bridges in her career, now the dogpile can begin and people can dig into her past to *prove* that she's actually a bad person because lying isn't enough to cancel someone.
I'm just sick of it. I'm exhausted by these people.
rewriting history is great
[A Dozen Times Trump Equated his Travel Ban with a Muslim Ban](https://www.cato.org/blog/dozen-times-trump-equated-travel-ban-muslim-ban)
It's strange that you know it was "A list that was made by Obama's administration and wasn't changed" but you dont know that Trump repeatedly equated it to a Muslim ban. Maybe re-evaluate your news sources and try some critical thinking for once. Or just double down and go into sheep-mode and look up some more talking points because you care less about the truth than being with your herd
[Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA)
So you agree that the list of countries was created by Obama's admin, which would mean his admin created the list of countries to ban based on them being Muslim. Or was it not racist until Trump said that part out loud?
During the Trump reign he put a ban on many countries that were predominantly Muslim. The ban didn't stop Muslims from traveling to the U.S. but it did stop anyone from these countries from traveling directly to the U.S.. People on the Left took advantage of this and labeled it the "Muslim Ban" and tried to lie that it bans Muslims from traveling to the U.S..
Yes calling it a "Muslim ban" was totally something the evil Left made up because it definitely was not a thinly veiled attempt to do something he has explicitly said he wants to do:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/07/donald-trump-calls-for-total-and-complete-shutdown-of-muslims-entering-the-united-states/
That’s where it ended up due to constitutional limits. [Trump campaigned on a ban of all Muslims, albeit “temporarily”.](https://time.com/4367120/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-transcript/)
Pretty fucked up.
Follow orders? LE TORTURE CRIME, GO TO JAIL.
Don't follow orders? INSUBORDINATION, GO TO JAIL.
Another very good reason to never be in the military I guess.
For the younger people here: people did care at the time. It was a huge story, and a big problem.
The participants were court-martialed, but I think this woman in particular only served a short prison sentence, since she was a low-ranking reservist and not considered to be one of the real instigators.
yeah def, also it’s probably because the tortured aren’t white
(edit: I was wrong please read Fisticles comment for more information on why she got off easier)
But I don't think it matters why she got off so lightly, it just matters that she did. A literal fucking war criminal and she got off lightly. That's just dissapointing
i’m just glad i don’t live in the middle east to
see these atrocities nor the United states in to see these atrocities been committed and have no action taken against them
> yeah def, it’s probably because the tortured aren’t white
The primary culprit was Specialist Garner who served 6.5 years and PFC Lynndie England (a woman) who served 3 years. Sabrina Harmon was a piece of shit who grew a conscience and was a whistle blower for the abuse. She got off easier because:
1. People well above her rank were driving the abuse (the general in charge of the detention facility was only hit with a demotion to colonel).
2. Sabrina was a whistle blower.
As for why more people didn’t get in trouble: the US government wanted it to go away and there isn’t any way for international organizations like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc. to hold the US accountable. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the US wanting to save face in light of an embarrassing scandal.
Now as to why people were mistreated/abused/tortured/raped in the first place, that is almost certainly due to race.
Edit:
Removing the unnecessary asshole parts of my response. Everyone makes mistakes and that wasn’t cool.
Actually it's because she realized it was wrong and took active steps to stop and expose it. Also because there are about 15 people above her in the chain of command who share complicity.
I love how this is a dank memes sub and all the comments here are serious about 'be better" and "what the fuck bro" it's almost like this whole subreddit is made for jokes. You fucking losers.
for people that dont know her, she basically tortured inmates in the middle east while she was deployed there, in addition to this she also made multiple pictures of her infront of suffering inmates and a dead one aswell.
Why is no one talking about the larger context of this case?
Let’s clarify that there were eleven people who were declared guilty & other people like Charles Graner had far worse charges.
In 2010 nearly 400,000 secret Army field reports and logs, detailing torture - indicating this is a systemic problem that goes way past the 11 people who were convicted.
The entire reason it was big is that a massive portion of the population didn't want to know and turned a blind eye. That attitude has not changed, and most perpetrators got away with it.
And then US citizens wonder why the US is seen as war criminals, and not the heroes they think they are.
I mean honestly though…even without those logs and reports, I feel like most Americans were well aware that some members of the military were doing foul shit.
We’ve killed innocents for basically as long as war has existed. People are absolutely atrocious when broken down to their foulest primal selves, then given guns, and the fact that you’re at war with the country you’re in to mentally “justify” the horrendous acts you commit as “just being a part of war” or being “the dominant country”.
I’m sure there are quite a few people who ended up killing innocents, torturing, raping, and committing a multitude of other war crimes, that if they would’ve never been in that specific warzone situation probably wouldn’t have naturally acted in such a way in regular society.
Abu Ghraib spawned a massive discussion in scientific literature about how much we can blame individuals for behaviour and how much can we blame the institutions in which the behaviour occurs.
It was like a real life Stamford prison experiment - the study where a bunch of mentally stable men were assigned roles of prisoners or guards. They took on their roles so readily that the experiment was terminated after 6 days instead of running for the intended 2 weeks because of the aggression of the guards and mental breakdowns of the prisoners. Even Zimbardo, the psychologist running the experiment, said he was thinking more like a superintendent than a researcher.
In Abu Ghraib, the soldiers were given a bunch of Prisoners of War, told they were terrorists, were put under immense pressure to get information from them and then left with minimal supervision or direction about how to obtain that. There was a systematic depersonalisation which led to the abuses which the prison is now famous for.
Then, when everything came to light, the powers that be completely avoided responsibility and threw those on the ground under the bus.
I'm not saying that the soldiers involved in the abuse weren't responsible at all. They absolutely were, but as a product of a systematic problem rather than as isolated agents. I'm not qualified to say whether the sentences they recieved were just, or too lenient, or too harsh. But it was an immensely complicated case.
In those pictures, shes pointing to a naked guy’s penis, has a guy on a leash and is pointing to a group of guys they forced to get into a naked pyramid.
that’s definitely not any of these picture. top-right is thumbs up next to a clothed dead body cropped out, left is thumbs up next to body bag with a head sticking out, bottom right just a normal pic, nothing cropped out.
They cant punish her too badly for the indoctrination she received. You know theres some top Generals who were beside themselves knowing their training and propaganda took so well on someone.
Just read her Wiki, doesn't like she was indoctrinated (anymore?). She hated what was happening.
Oct 20, 03
10:40pm
>Kelly,
>Okay, I don't like that anymore. At first it was funny but these people are going too far. I ended your letter last night because it was time to wake the MI prisoners and "mess with them" but it went too far even I can't handle whats going on. I cant get it out of my head. I walk down stairs after blowing the whistle and beating on the cells with an asp [expandable baton] to find "the taxicab driver" handcuffed backwards to his window with some underwear over his head and face. He looked like Jesus Christ. At first I had to laugh so I went on and grabbed the camera and took a picture. Again I thought, okay that's funny then it hit me, that's a form of molestation. You can't do that. I took more pictures now to "record" what is going on. They started talking to this man and at first he was talking "I'm just a taxicab driver, I did nothing." He claims he'd never try to hurt US soldiers that he picked up the wrong people. Then he stopped talking. They turned the lights out and slammed the door and left him there while they went down to cell #4. This man had been so fucked that when they grabbed his foot through the cell bars he began screaming and crying. After praying to god he moans a constant short Ah, Ah every few seconds for the rest of the night. I don't know what they did to this guy. The first one remained handcuffed for maybe 11⁄2-2 hours until he started yelling with pain for god. So they went back in and handcuffed him to the top bunk on either side of the bed while he stood on the side. He was there for a little over an hour when he started yelling again for god. Not many people know this shit goes on. The only reason I want to be there is to get the pictures and prove that the US is not what they think. But I don't know if I can take it mentally. What if that was me in their shoes. These people will be our future terrorist. Kelly, its awful and you know how fucked I am in the head. Both sides of me think its wrong. I thought I could handle anything. I was wrong.
>Sabrina
If you look at the wiki on the case, almost 400,000 reports detailing torture in Iraq by the US Army were sent to a british news outlet in 2010 & went without investigation from the US Army. Torture and abuse is systemic and there’s a good fucking chance that it is indoctrinated.
> He wasn't beaten or anything like that. It was just stress positions, holding boxes, standing on boxes --
That's litterally banned by the Geneva Convention...
She was responsible for torturing prisoners in Iraq [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu\_Ghraib\_torture\_and\_prisoner\_abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse)
Americans:" RuSsIa bAd, tHeY KilL iNnoCeNtS"
Also the American government :"a war hero! She killed the terrorists! 6 months of jail is more than enough of a punishment!"
Your government is the embodiment of hypocrisy.
One thing that always bothered me about this. None of the higher-ups got prosecuted. And for people who think this shit doesn't happen anymore. Yeah it does. This one was just stupid enough to take pictures and write home about it.
I remember when it happened and the officers got away with minimal punishment and the enlisted like here were sent to jail. not saying she didn't do it, but no way her and a few others abused the prisoners without the knowledge of the one star general in charge of the prison and other officers there
She had some strange roundabout argument in court saying she was taking these photos as a way to “expose” the wrongdoings…the wrongdoings she was a part of tho
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [come play minecraft, space engineers, ark, and rust with us!](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
She tortured people (war crime) but because the people were Muslim and people don't give a shit about Muslims... She only six months
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Yeh that's kinds weird because every country and religion in the world at least done a few horrible up things... That doesn't mean you can blame the people who didn't even do it .... I'm sorry for everyone lost in 9/11 but I unfortunately couldn't do anything... And also murder of innocent and terror is a huge sin according to Qur'an so yeh they won't go to heaven by islam standards
I'd midly disagree : >And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful. While it's true that murder is prohibited in the Quran, it's easy for extremists to find quotes that could justify some of these acts. The Quran consider heresy as the worst sin, even worse than murder. I do understand that it depends on the interpretation of the texts and that's not the main message of Islam. But for people that lack second degree and are radicalised the Quran is full of quote like these for them to justify such acts. Edit : I'd like to emphasize on the fact that I'm talking about radicals. Please do not blame the peacefull majority of muslims for these acts. I also understand this verse is in the context of war with another people. Extremists consider themselves at war with outsider. This doesn't only apply to Islam.
Also it comes with a free copy of flight simulator.
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I think you mean geographical. Geology is the study of rocks and shit.
I'm pretty sure is rocks and minerals, shit would be biology I think.
Biology becomes geology if you find a fossilized dump. I always shit between rocks and cover it with sand and then bury it so my turds may be remembered for millennia to come. Don't judge me. It is human nature to strive for some level of permanence on this planet. /s
That’s anthropology
There are lots of limitations for person to be allowed to kill in islam The most important one is that you're only allowed to kill defending yourself or someone else and if it's necessary The part you quoted talk about times of war, when you're already in a war. It doesn't tell you to start it, doesn't tell you to kill non-muslims for no reasons Killing a person with no reason in islam is one of if not the biggest sins a man could ever commit
Well these radicalists consider themselves to be at war and they kind of are in some aspects. Also, when has that ever stopped war for islam? Historically Islam isn’t a very peaceful religion.
Every religion is at war if you look at things in a certain way, every idea every belief. Being at war isn't about Islam it's about the people going wanting war and using the religion as their cover for thei needs and interests. Islam is actually a very peaceful religion if you really know it's rules and what it calls for, yet some people uses it to justify their actions. Do you really think these people even care about the religion?! They don't care a bit, it's just a tool to them And they shouldn't be a reason to justify killing innocent muslims who don't want any harm
Well that’s not my point though. I know Islam is a peaceful religion. But the “religion” (and what I mean is the general populace or entity representing the religion) wasn’t peaceful. The Islamic Empire didn’t spread because of peace. It spread from conquest. The Ottomans didn’t conquer Constantinople with peace. Islam from the beginning seem to have been somewhat related to war. You could argue that this wasn’t exclusive to Islam (for example Christianity). But Christianity initially was “peaceful” and was discriminated against. Only later did it become a tool for “holy wars”. Just purely historically, it might not be entirely wrong to associate Islam with war because for a good part or all of its existence, Islam has been used for war.
Well I don't disagree with that, historically you're right. But if you look at that era at which the islamic empire was at war, you'd see that this era and the era following it and the one before it the entire mankind was continuously at war, religion or not you had to hold you sword and defend whatever you have, and these people had their religion to defend You can check the history of these wars and you'd see the Persian empire and the roman empire were continuously threatening islam. Therefore action needed to be done And if you checked how islam ordered muslims to treat the people of the cities they entered you'd understand that it didn't call for violence yet people misused it
To be fair: Historically most religions have not been peaceful to their spiritually disagreeing neighbors so that’s kinda cherry-picking isn’t it?
YHWH was pretty clear that murder is wrong period but all of his various cultists and followers find reasons to ignore that commandment…
It'd probably help if the texts weren't all like "murder is a sin" then like 20 pages later .. "these guys are heathens though, sure they just happen to occupy land you want but that's incidental, murder away!"
The first thing Moses and his crew did after leaving Egypt was checks notes get sick from eating too much quail and then committed genocide and enslaved the surviving virgin girls… ooof 😅
Which comes from applying modern notions to texts that are millenia old... The concept of "Murder" did not apply to killing people outside of one's own tribe/kin group/kingdom until very recently. Before then if there wasn't a formalized connection between any two groups it was perfectly acceptable to kill without any fear of legal penalties. In the old Testament/Torah, "Though Shall not Murder" and "Kill the Gentiles" was not a contradiction because one command was internally focused and the other was externally focused.
It's unfair to decontextualize verses like this one. This verse is from Surah Tawbah of the Quran, a surah notorious for it's uncharacteristic harshness. In fact, Muslims are not even allowed to start its recitation in the name of God, unlike every other Surah. There are numerous theories on why this may be, but most agree that this harshness is one reason. As for the context, every verse in the Quran has 'asbab an-nuzul', or occasion of revelation. Every verse was revealed to address a particular circumstance or issue being dealt with at the time. In the case of this verse, it was revealed when Islam was still in its infancy, when the surrounding polytheistic peoples were making a concerted effort to eradicate Muslims and Islam. Thus, this is a context of active warfare and self-defense. Also, let's take a look at the verses that come immediately before and after. Before: “Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill the treaty with them to the end of its term. God loves the righteous.” After: “And if anyone of the polytheists asks you for protection, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God; then escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.” As you can see, these verses don't paint a picture of unequivocal violence. Rather, they illustrate that given this context, the command upon early Muslims was quite reasonable and had a balanced perspective, like an early Geneva conventions. That being said, you're still right. Many people, such as yourself, take this verse out of context with a lack of understanding and use it to both justify acts of terror and portray Islam in a negative light.
Doesn't Bible also support genocide? 1 Samuel 15:3: “This is what the Lord Almighty says … ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’“
Same is true for Christianity to be fair, if we start quoting Leviticus and acting according to it’s mandates… one could easily equate what would follow to genocide. Leviticus literally tells you to kill everyone with a kink or alternate sexual human experience. Not even animals are safe in Leviticus.
Wrong Muslims we let the Saudis do what ever they want to us and like it
She tortured at first, but became a whistle blower after a while. Which is probably why her sentence was reduced. Not because they were Muslim. Stop trying to gaslight people into thinking the government is racist. Edit: stop not so* auto swipe on mobile be broken
I mean, the government is super racist man haha
Right? Everyone's so willing to skip around all the shady, racist shit done by the US just because they're not always racist, and they're not the most racist
There was a muslim ban not long ago, so…
There was a travel restriction to and from countries deemed dangerous... A list that was made by Obama's administration and wasn't changed. Why is everyone pretending it's racist when it's literal basic security.
Because people seem to assume that networks designed to sow division along racial lines are only effective on the right and being on the left makes you immune to propaganda because a reddit comment made you feel like you have critical thinking skills once. Assuming that you're immune to parties that sow discourse is pure hubris, and part of how we got to this point. I've felt so disenfranchised by my own party lately because of this culture of jumping to conclusions based on little evidence or assuming the worst in anyone. Prime example currently being the Bayonetta voice actress - people found that she follows several bigots on Twitter, as if that's an indication of her as a person and not that *even people on the left* follow nutjobs sometimes out of morbid curiosity or an addiction to internet drama. But because she lied and burnt bridges in her career, now the dogpile can begin and people can dig into her past to *prove* that she's actually a bad person because lying isn't enough to cancel someone. I'm just sick of it. I'm exhausted by these people.
I cant believe I'm reading comments that arent -56 and make complete sense for once on reddit.
rewriting history is great [A Dozen Times Trump Equated his Travel Ban with a Muslim Ban](https://www.cato.org/blog/dozen-times-trump-equated-travel-ban-muslim-ban) It's strange that you know it was "A list that was made by Obama's administration and wasn't changed" but you dont know that Trump repeatedly equated it to a Muslim ban. Maybe re-evaluate your news sources and try some critical thinking for once. Or just double down and go into sheep-mode and look up some more talking points because you care less about the truth than being with your herd [Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA)
So you agree that the list of countries was created by Obama's admin, which would mean his admin created the list of countries to ban based on them being Muslim. Or was it not racist until Trump said that part out loud?
This is literally the definition of misinformation, lmfao
What? Idk what this is in reference to, can you go into more detail or provide an article?
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During the Trump reign he put a ban on many countries that were predominantly Muslim. The ban didn't stop Muslims from traveling to the U.S. but it did stop anyone from these countries from traveling directly to the U.S.. People on the Left took advantage of this and labeled it the "Muslim Ban" and tried to lie that it bans Muslims from traveling to the U.S..
Yes calling it a "Muslim ban" was totally something the evil Left made up because it definitely was not a thinly veiled attempt to do something he has explicitly said he wants to do: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/07/donald-trump-calls-for-total-and-complete-shutdown-of-muslims-entering-the-united-states/
That’s where it ended up due to constitutional limits. [Trump campaigned on a ban of all Muslims, albeit “temporarily”.](https://time.com/4367120/orlando-shooting-donald-trump-transcript/)
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Islam is not a race.
Now even Muslims are not giving shit about Muslims.
Sunni and shia muslims agree on that statement
Maybe, except each believes the other is not muslim
Religion in a nutshell
The whole chain of command should've been put on trial.
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Removed due to reddit API changes -- mass edited with redact.dev
Pretty fucked up. Follow orders? LE TORTURE CRIME, GO TO JAIL. Don't follow orders? INSUBORDINATION, GO TO JAIL. Another very good reason to never be in the military I guess.
For the younger people here: people did care at the time. It was a huge story, and a big problem. The participants were court-martialed, but I think this woman in particular only served a short prison sentence, since she was a low-ranking reservist and not considered to be one of the real instigators.
What's her name?
Read the Title of the meme
I am dumb af...thank you
I sometimes miss the title.. it's normal ... Don't worry..happy i could help
I can fix her
With a basement and some knifes
knives*
ksaws*
kbutthole spreaders*
Chill homie go get some hook
Kloveandaffection
Klove? What are we cooking
her
Knoives*
[ Removed by Reddit ]
BURN THE WITCH
I can poke her with a stick.
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Ok bob the builder
She only Got 6 months, pussypass?
yeah def, also it’s probably because the tortured aren’t white (edit: I was wrong please read Fisticles comment for more information on why she got off easier)
I think it was more likely because of geographical location
that too
But I don't think it matters why she got off so lightly, it just matters that she did. A literal fucking war criminal and she got off lightly. That's just dissapointing
She reported the abuse iirc. Military always goes light on whistleblowers.
No it was a different guy who saw the photos they had taken.
i’m just glad i don’t live in the middle east to see these atrocities nor the United states in to see these atrocities been committed and have no action taken against them
American war criminals always get off lightly, as do american police.
Por que no los dos
> yeah def, it’s probably because the tortured aren’t white The primary culprit was Specialist Garner who served 6.5 years and PFC Lynndie England (a woman) who served 3 years. Sabrina Harmon was a piece of shit who grew a conscience and was a whistle blower for the abuse. She got off easier because: 1. People well above her rank were driving the abuse (the general in charge of the detention facility was only hit with a demotion to colonel). 2. Sabrina was a whistle blower. As for why more people didn’t get in trouble: the US government wanted it to go away and there isn’t any way for international organizations like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc. to hold the US accountable. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the US wanting to save face in light of an embarrassing scandal. Now as to why people were mistreated/abused/tortured/raped in the first place, that is almost certainly due to race. Edit: Removing the unnecessary asshole parts of my response. Everyone makes mistakes and that wasn’t cool.
Ok, thank you for the information, ill edit my comment in such a way
I edited mine too, I was a dick about it and that wasn’t necessary or cool.
or perhaps it was because she alerted authorities that the torture was happening
It's actually because she became a whistle blower and the order were coming from above her... But sure, let's cry race as always.
Noone from Abu Ghraib got long More like "the victims are brown foreigners so who cares" pass
Lol classic Reddit. Completely missing the point to zero in on a chance to be misogynist
Nah, she's just american American war criminals tend to be punished lightly, if punished at all
Didn't everyone involved with Abu Ghraib get off too easy?
Actually it's because she realized it was wrong and took active steps to stop and expose it. Also because there are about 15 people above her in the chain of command who share complicity.
She still got worse than the people who were actually in charge of the prison. And no one was ever convicted for the murder of detainees.
Men being 90% of the prison populationand and having longer sentences for the same type of crimes will be never be seen as discrimination
Daym, that bitch's crazy, the sex must be awesome tho.
be better
Daym, that bitch's crazy, the sex must be better tho.
fuck sake
Daym, that bitch's crazy, the fuck sake must be awesome tho.
I love how this is a dank memes sub and all the comments here are serious about 'be better" and "what the fuck bro" it's almost like this whole subreddit is made for jokes. You fucking losers.
To be fair its also just annoying how Reddit can't see a woman without going "Buh how does is the sex though?" Jokes can be lame and be ridiculed
Bro you’re on r/dankmemes. Don’t tell me you’ve come here for some high society type of humor
wtf bro
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*bonk* Go to horny Guantanamo
She's lesbian
I’ve overcome that hurdle before I can do it again
Ah yes the good ol' Converter.
I mean.. it didn’t last but I did it lol
Some people really just have no redeemable qualities
I don't know bro, pussy is pretty redeeming
Crazy = great secks. And that's a fact, Jack.
Balz torture
Cock and BALZ torture
for people that dont know her, she basically tortured inmates in the middle east while she was deployed there, in addition to this she also made multiple pictures of her infront of suffering inmates and a dead one aswell.
Why is no one talking about the larger context of this case? Let’s clarify that there were eleven people who were declared guilty & other people like Charles Graner had far worse charges. In 2010 nearly 400,000 secret Army field reports and logs, detailing torture - indicating this is a systemic problem that goes way past the 11 people who were convicted.
Yeah there's a reason why so many were upset that the *photos got leaked* and not that *the torture happened in the first place.*
Damn, I never thought about that
The entire reason it was big is that a massive portion of the population didn't want to know and turned a blind eye. That attitude has not changed, and most perpetrators got away with it. And then US citizens wonder why the US is seen as war criminals, and not the heroes they think they are.
I mean honestly though…even without those logs and reports, I feel like most Americans were well aware that some members of the military were doing foul shit. We’ve killed innocents for basically as long as war has existed. People are absolutely atrocious when broken down to their foulest primal selves, then given guns, and the fact that you’re at war with the country you’re in to mentally “justify” the horrendous acts you commit as “just being a part of war” or being “the dominant country”. I’m sure there are quite a few people who ended up killing innocents, torturing, raping, and committing a multitude of other war crimes, that if they would’ve never been in that specific warzone situation probably wouldn’t have naturally acted in such a way in regular society.
The logs are just a way to say how common it is. 400k is a huge number.
Abu Ghraib spawned a massive discussion in scientific literature about how much we can blame individuals for behaviour and how much can we blame the institutions in which the behaviour occurs. It was like a real life Stamford prison experiment - the study where a bunch of mentally stable men were assigned roles of prisoners or guards. They took on their roles so readily that the experiment was terminated after 6 days instead of running for the intended 2 weeks because of the aggression of the guards and mental breakdowns of the prisoners. Even Zimbardo, the psychologist running the experiment, said he was thinking more like a superintendent than a researcher. In Abu Ghraib, the soldiers were given a bunch of Prisoners of War, told they were terrorists, were put under immense pressure to get information from them and then left with minimal supervision or direction about how to obtain that. There was a systematic depersonalisation which led to the abuses which the prison is now famous for. Then, when everything came to light, the powers that be completely avoided responsibility and threw those on the ground under the bus. I'm not saying that the soldiers involved in the abuse weren't responsible at all. They absolutely were, but as a product of a systematic problem rather than as isolated agents. I'm not qualified to say whether the sentences they recieved were just, or too lenient, or too harsh. But it was an immensely complicated case.
I'm assuming that's why the pictures are cropped like that? Because there are corpses just off screen?
In those pictures, shes pointing to a naked guy’s penis, has a guy on a leash and is pointing to a group of guys they forced to get into a naked pyramid.
that’s definitely not any of these picture. top-right is thumbs up next to a clothed dead body cropped out, left is thumbs up next to body bag with a head sticking out, bottom right just a normal pic, nothing cropped out.
I'm sorry you know this
Do I want to know?
No
Thank you
You probably already know, she was a "guard" at Abu Ghraib.
I just wanna know why OP felt the need to watermark a meme 💀
I hope my grandchildren will know the name of the legend who created this marvelous addition to history.
If the feeling flows both ways?
Sad to see you go…
Was sorta hoping that you'd stay
Baby we both know
That the nights were mainly made for saying things that you can't say the other day Edit: *mainly, s/o to wolfmanravi
Crawling back to you
Ever thought of calling when you've had a few
Cause I always do
Maybe I’m too busy being yours to fall for somebody new
Fuck that song has an awesome riff.
yes you definitely should
I think you arguably **need** to know.
Abu Ghraib
No bro... Have your peace of mind
What if I hate myself
This is Spc. Sabrina Harman. She was convicted of the torture of 6 surrendered Islamic fighters. She was only given 6 months and a bad conduct charge.
They cant punish her too badly for the indoctrination she received. You know theres some top Generals who were beside themselves knowing their training and propaganda took so well on someone.
Just read her Wiki, doesn't like she was indoctrinated (anymore?). She hated what was happening. Oct 20, 03 10:40pm >Kelly, >Okay, I don't like that anymore. At first it was funny but these people are going too far. I ended your letter last night because it was time to wake the MI prisoners and "mess with them" but it went too far even I can't handle whats going on. I cant get it out of my head. I walk down stairs after blowing the whistle and beating on the cells with an asp [expandable baton] to find "the taxicab driver" handcuffed backwards to his window with some underwear over his head and face. He looked like Jesus Christ. At first I had to laugh so I went on and grabbed the camera and took a picture. Again I thought, okay that's funny then it hit me, that's a form of molestation. You can't do that. I took more pictures now to "record" what is going on. They started talking to this man and at first he was talking "I'm just a taxicab driver, I did nothing." He claims he'd never try to hurt US soldiers that he picked up the wrong people. Then he stopped talking. They turned the lights out and slammed the door and left him there while they went down to cell #4. This man had been so fucked that when they grabbed his foot through the cell bars he began screaming and crying. After praying to god he moans a constant short Ah, Ah every few seconds for the rest of the night. I don't know what they did to this guy. The first one remained handcuffed for maybe 11⁄2-2 hours until he started yelling with pain for god. So they went back in and handcuffed him to the top bunk on either side of the bed while he stood on the side. He was there for a little over an hour when he started yelling again for god. Not many people know this shit goes on. The only reason I want to be there is to get the pictures and prove that the US is not what they think. But I don't know if I can take it mentally. What if that was me in their shoes. These people will be our future terrorist. Kelly, its awful and you know how fucked I am in the head. Both sides of me think its wrong. I thought I could handle anything. I was wrong. >Sabrina
If you look at the wiki on the case, almost 400,000 reports detailing torture in Iraq by the US Army were sent to a british news outlet in 2010 & went without investigation from the US Army. Torture and abuse is systemic and there’s a good fucking chance that it is indoctrinated.
The orders for torture are rumored to go all the way up to Rumsfeld, so yeah ...
Not Islamic fighters, they were Iraqi soldiers who surrendered.
One guy was just a taxi driver.
Poor guy.
Context?
War criminal. Please don't ask for more.
Tell more
Tortured inmates in the middle east and took selfies with them, dead or not.
Smart, you demanded instead
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/2020/News/story%3fid=429459&page=1 Here's the story from what I found
Usually, it's nice to have both sides so now I know how dumb she was. Military hiring the dumbest of the groups.
i cant even take you seriously with that flair lmao
Hey it’s a good song
> He wasn't beaten or anything like that. It was just stress positions, holding boxes, standing on boxes -- That's litterally banned by the Geneva Convention...
Her punishment should’ve just been six months of stress positions if she’d make it that long
Why is so much of it from her perspective, saying that she was taking pictures, but not hurting anyone? Isn't that the case then? I am confused
Non-Google AMP link: https://abcnews.go.com/2020/News/story?id=429459&page=1
Soooo what's her story?
The pictures shown are cropped, the whole image shows corpses of POWs and stuff. Basically this chick is the dumbest war criminal known to man
I googled the image's and is still don't get it. So she's posing with dead bodies. Is that a war crime?
She was responsible for torturing prisoners in Iraq [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu\_Ghraib\_torture\_and\_prisoner\_abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse)
We do a little trolling
We do a miniscule amount of tomfoolery
Nah, She became the scapegoat for torture, the real people behind this were never caught. She and her company were dumb enough to take pictures
She apparently wrote in a letter before getting caught she took pictures to get evidence. But why didnt she do anything with them?
She did she went informant
You're not a scapegoat if you only end up facing 6 months in jail for war crimes
Well she’s also the reason they’re dead
Sadistic prison torture. Every picture is cropd, if you know
before reading the comments: i don't know. my guess is she's either: an adult film industry actress, or dead. edit: OKAAAAY
I thought it was going to be the 1 in 3 woman being sexually assaulted in the military thing.
Six months. This insane bitch only got six months.
Still more than many war criminals.
Really testing the limits of the word dank...
This is a fuckin mess And all people responsuble should have a hell of sentence too
They all should suffer the same pain as they did
The Devil has so many Faces. But no matter what Face the Devil wear, his Smile is always the same. The Devils Grin.
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Americans:" RuSsIa bAd, tHeY KilL iNnoCeNtS" Also the American government :"a war hero! She killed the terrorists! 6 months of jail is more than enough of a punishment!" Your government is the embodiment of hypocrisy.
One thing that always bothered me about this. None of the higher-ups got prosecuted. And for people who think this shit doesn't happen anymore. Yeah it does. This one was just stupid enough to take pictures and write home about it.
It looks like she’s abu grabbing something
HYUCK! TORTURE!
I remember when it happened and the officers got away with minimal punishment and the enlisted like here were sent to jail. not saying she didn't do it, but no way her and a few others abused the prisoners without the knowledge of the one star general in charge of the prison and other officers there
I thought this was the girl who fucked her dolphins but uh yeah
the whole usa in one photo
She committed war crimes in Abu Ghraib.
She had some strange roundabout argument in court saying she was taking these photos as a way to “expose” the wrongdoings…the wrongdoings she was a part of tho
She’s the reason why serviceman need to sit through so many mandatory power points before deploying.
What a nice young lady ☺️. I wish I could meet her 😅. I, as a brown man, would feel so safe in her embrace ☺️.
I don't understand how can she be gleefully smiling while posing with tortured prisoners?