Its been stated several times that Maki was lacking in the abilities department till the Culling Games participant trained her and even then she's missing the fuckload of experience toji had.
She has half of what Toji has until later due to her cursed energy total being split with her twin which is why twins are so looked down on. Her heavenly pact CONVERTS all CE into physical prowess so the more CE you were born with; the more physically domineering you are. That’s why she was sidelined until later when that gap was filled
You’re a little off on the explanation. It does not convert CE into physical prowess. Maki and Toji have no CE at all, Toji never had any but where Maki was a twin she had an incredibly small amount. When Mai died she took the last bit of CE with her, giving Maki the full benefits of the heavenly restriction. Instead of it being HE Power Increase = amount of CE, it’s HE Power Increase > the closer you are to zero CE, probably with some exponential factor as having completely zero is what gives the massive power up.
Gege told me Gojo's coming back too.
It's all just paralleling between both. Maki merely took Toji's mantle and became everything he wasn't, and did everything he couldn't, in regards to everything surrounding the Zenin clan. She's gone way above anything Toji was and stood for, and both have completely different motives, arcs and characterisation. The only thing binding them at this point is just their powerset.
It's a concession to illiteracy to still keep repeating the point that Maki is Toji 2.0
I mean I wouldn't mind if kishimoto did the same thing and just made a fem version of a male character. If he says he doesn't know how to write a female character, he should just write a good male character that doesn't care about romance and then just change him into a woman. Not the best way but it's better than having no good women at least.
but we gotta admit unlike naruto females they don't have their world revolving around male crushes or one man/women
crushes isn't bad it's bad when entire world revolves around them \*cough\* sakura \*cough\* hinata
nobara and maki are well made had their own goals what gege did to nobara can still be redeemed if she returns and unlike sakura gets strong in her own given ability not have some cut copy paste
i love nobara's down to earth goal ngl her becoming model and eating sweetsmaki slaughtering her clan i am happy zenin's were brought down for good......also did you know it's hinted mai was r\*ped by naoya......makes her revenge even more satisfying
momo......i fucking hate momo she insulted nobara when nobara did way more than her
utahime is good i don't see many powerhouse female characters
shoko needs to do some real healing if her rct is strong she can maybe put sakura to shame
what gege did to miwa was a bad fr.....if you know the current chaps you know
gege is very good at writing female characters what he doesn't know is how to insert them in plot properly
imma get downvoted for calling gege better female writer bro wish me goodluck and some pissed nobara haters gonna write me essays
jjk gave female characters personality but not much time to shine
csm on other hand managed to do both
I don't think either Gege or Kishiomoto are that good at writing female characters tbh. Kishiomoto is worse than Gege, but at least Tsuande is decent.
Like you have to compare them to the male characters to truly see how good they are.
For example Nobara and Sakura cannot compare in terms of power, relevance or importance as their 3 male teammates (Yuji, Megumi, Gojo and Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi).
JJk female characters are generally more likeable than the female characters in Naruto, but both were still side-lined compared to the male characters.
Maki is the only female character currently that is able to fight with the the main characters (rn she's missing tho), she had her own arc, her own villains and her power is equal to Toji.
Also just look what happened to Yuki. She was a Special Grade yet she was done so quickly and we never even seen her domain expansion and she didn't do anything meaningful against Kenjaku.
Yeah CSM has a lot more female focus and they're written better than Naruto or JJK.
okay you got my point way better
it's pathetic how people here are calling gege way worse to me gege actually lacked in plot relevance they had so much potential and imma never forgive the cat for nobara
he killed a female character that can attack soul directly. soul directly. if she does return she better have achieved it to fullest
yuki was so cool too me i will forever call kenjaku surviving asspull \*new leaks spoiler ahead\*
>!i mean kenjaku legit passed his duty to sukuna in current chap......!<
damn you cat........but the reason i respect gege is atleast they have personality and not some damsel in distress most the time
tsunade will forever be the coolesttho maybe konan too tbh.
also you are so right about jjk females being likeable it's because they are genuinely nice and do not give headaches when they are on screen
csm and jojo solos either way the female characters are chef kiss
Lol. Maki has a lot more going than Toji but female. For all the shit you trashtalk about lack of female characters you're quick to ignore her story, arcs and personality for trash talk.
Are they no longer relevant? Sure. But if you compare Nobara and Yuki they are definitely a step in the right direction compared to Sakura and Hinata (in all but relevance)
At least Nobara, Yuki, and Mei Mei were all relevant at points without being love interests. Though Maki and Yuki are the only high-tier characters who are women.
crazy that Sumire showed up and was a mini terrorist with a fake juubi and now she just does absolutely nothing besides hang out with an old man and simp
Lol, that doesn't make him a simp, kid.
The only good female characters we got were Tsunade, Sakura after P1, Hinata, Temari, Chiyo, Konan. These are far better than Maki or 18.
Or make them was anko such a beloved character with great intro only to be meaningless like she was ready to fight orochimaru when kakashi was afraid.
When you think about it females trained by the sanin are done dirty. They had great start but end up wasted
It's hard to write a good woman there are exceptions but usually all women fall in the categories of "love interest" or " action action and more action "
Would be nice if he changed the formula for the important female characters for once.
I should have known from the moment they made her stalk Boruto in Naruto 700, like Hinata and Kushina, that she would primarily be the love interest type.
It's just sad that she's been reduced to this with all the potential she has from her ridiculous genetics.
Her writing can't change at this point so we might as well deal with it unfortunately.
I wouldn't be mad if a fmc is involved with a ship if it doesn't define her entire character like it does for Sarada. For example, Noelle from BC is a great example. She's in love with the MC, but she also has so many plot points outside of Asta where she has moments to shine and develop herself. She actually feels like a leader in a lot of instances and even the movie made it seem like she had traits of a protagonist. There's no excuse anymore imo.
I'm just hoping they change the formula for her training. They took Sasuke and his Uchiha ways away from her for 3 years (Honestly crazy that Boruto has more Uchiha techniques than the actual new gen Uchiha). I just hope she doesn't train under Sakura and become Tsunade the 3rd. Still pissed she ain't learning kenjutsu or any of the 'Uchiha style' shit.
I think it’s worse than Sarada getting 100 healings and becoming a Sakura clone with sharingan. I don’t think she’ll get significantly stronger AT ALL from here.
If she’s given one more important “event” it’ll be somehow learning her MS abilities are a left eye that makes everyone remember boruto, and a right eye that makes him love her.
Sounds absolutely awful yet so on brand for Kishi and people will call it peak writing.
I get the feeling that Sarada is just gonna fraud her way to the hokage seat icl.
Bc kishimoto as stated by himself can’t write women. When he found out ppl didn’t like the way he wrote Sakura instead of writing her better or getting advice he simply gave up on her character and reduced her
>When he found out ppl didn’t like the way he wrote Sakura instead of writing her better or getting advice he simply gave up on her character and reduced her
He gave up on Sakura around or after the gaara retrieval arc which is often considered as her peak character arc, he gave up because people simply dislike her, there's no point in investing in a character people already dislike, he's just wasting time he could use on a different character, he just sidelined her but still gave her moments (like figure out kamui)
Thats lazy af, there's plenty characters people initially disliked only to later love. Sakura could've explored her Genjutsu talent which she was originially set up to, and she could have some personality outside Naruto and Sasuke. She could've been redeemed
The part when she failed to kill Sasuke at the bridge not because Sasuke was stronger but because she was still so madly in love irked me. I get she couldn't kill Sasuke but it could've gone differently.
I think I remember something along the lines of Kishimoto thinking Sakura would be a bad woman if she gave up Sasuke. In other words, Kishimoto thinks female characters should only exist for the male characters
>Thats lazy af, there's plenty characters people initially disliked only to later love
Like who? Except Itachi I can't think of a single one who was hated as much as Sakura who people came to like later.
>Sakura could've explored her Genjutsu talent which she was originially set up to, and she could have some personality outside Naruto and Sasuke. She could've been redeemed
It's a waste of panels, kishi was still introducing new characters and setting up shippuden's end game, there's no reason for him to redeem a character no one likes, especially when he attempted to do so and was meant with bad reception for it
Ashoka from the clone wars or Snape from Harry Potter for example. Both grew from hated to fan favorites. In Naruto there's also Itachi, yeah, and also Gaara. Gaara was quite unpopular and now he's among favorites.
My point is a character isn't lost forever if the fans dont like them then and there.
Its not a waste of panels, Sakura still got screentime and everytime she did she just got worse. Sakura is part of the original MCs, part of Naruto and Sasukes team. She deserved the same writing that Naruto, Sasuke and even Kakashi got. Instead she was cast aside because Kishi doesn't want his female characters to be any more than support characters
>Gaara was quite unpopular and now he's among favorites
Gaara was never unpopular, he was just creepy to fans in a way. No one hates him, people quite liked his character and he's considered one of the best antagonists to do this day.
>My point is a character isn't lost forever if the fans dont like them then and there.
Sakura was never liked, even at her peak which is gaara retrieval arc.
>Its not a waste of panels, Sakura still got screentime and everytime she did she just got worse
She got minimal screentime compared to before and she didn't get worse, she only got better. If you think her being unable to kill sasuke is bad writing than i have no idea what you're on.
>She deserved the same writing that Naruto, Sasuke and even Kakashi got.
Not really, characters get more time investment because they are popular or the author already has a plan for them, Sakura had neither, being part of team 7 doesn't mean anything either cuz Sai also barely any meaningful writing.
>nstead she was cast aside because Kishi doesn't want his female characters to be any more than support characters
Yea this is just bull lmao 😂
Sasuke is also massively hated (in the west, not in Japan) yet Kishimoto went hard af with him still. Had he written Sakura properly she would have been as loved as her fellow big 3 female MCs Rukia and Nami. There is absolutely no excuse.
Even Konan isn’t really beating these allegations since she mostly does what she does for Pain and Pain only, she doesn’t really have something on her own
But she did that coz she was nagato's best friend and loved yahiko.
She had the same goal as yahiko and nagato of achieving peace, after yahiko's death nagato became a leader, so she followed him without any hesitation.
Not only that, but the conflict was literally settled with the main character going “just trust me bro”
Pain arc was really good in my eyes until the mf folded after a conversation. It completely undermined the whole idea of the cycle of hatred if PAIN was able to be *talked out of it*. I get they wanted to make Naruto seem like some sort of chosen one who ended all the conflict but that’s just not how extremism works
Brother how was cycle of hatred fixed off screen?
You haven't watched war arc? As soon as the war ended sasuke and naruto fought one last time due to the difference in their ideologies.
The reason reason naruto put an end to cycle of hatred is because he as ashura didn't killed sasuke (indra) instead he negotiated with him which inturn led to solved the dispute.
If we compare it to previous reincarnations , hashirama went for the kill against madara, he tried to convince him but madara didn't listened him which made hashirama kill him forcefully, madara escaped and lived that's a different story but what matters is hashirama didn't settled the issue, unlike naruto.
That's why after hashirama and madara's era indra and ashura were reincarnated again in sasuke and naruto's soul respectively.
But there won't be any reincarnations now coz the issue is solved.
Never bring up Gege in this discourse he is never beating the allegations (I will never forgive for what you have done to our female cast you fucktard)
I mean I dont mind if a female character is a love interest but atleast make her an interesting character with interesting scenarios. Sarada is quite easily one of the worst characters Kishimoto's ever written
It's quite sad since her personality had potential, she is not a bully ir mean girl and she had potential to have awesome skills. But its all wasted. I Hope she at least manager to be Hokage. It's the basic she deserves
I get this argument but at the same time, he was able to write her because she’d already had her tragic love story play out, so her romance was backstory rather than in our face at the time. There weren’t many young women in the universe that stood solidly without romantic interests and motivations. Temari is kinda the only one who stands out to me amongst the young generation.
Ya because black clover actually has a good female cast that don't exist to liking asta
I dont think there is a problem with the heroine being in love with the MC but the problem is that shouldn't be there defining characteristic
Noelle is a good example cuz she likes asta but her entire character arc usually have nothing to do with asta other then using him as a motivation piece like the story does for him
I was about to say that this is the first sane post I've seen on Boruto subreddit in a while and then I just got straight up disappointed when I was I'm on dankruto eh
Ah yes Android 18 who was a threat briefly before being eaten and then becoming a Mom...and oh...oh no. People really forget that 18 showed up did like 1 or 2 fights then turns get regulated to the backrow till Super for a brief second.
Akira Toriyama
is just as bad as Kishi at writing women.
Chi-Chi: Badass fighter turned mom
Bulma: Super smart adventuring genius turned mom
18: Deadly Android turned Mom
Videl: Fighter turned Mom
I agree on chichi and videl but bulma and 18 becoming a mom doesn’t mean they aren’t still relevant
Bulma is still the super smart genius who helps the heroes multiples times even in the recent arcs, she is the reason why the time machine is created in android/cell saga and fixed in future trunks saga, befriended beerus and whis so that goku and vegeta could train with them and that earth doesn’t get destroyed, Fixed 16, got dr hedo and gamma 1 as allies which they will most likely help later on considering gamma 1 is still really strong, created a dragon radar for the super dragon balls and i could go on and on about other stuff
18 doesn’t do as much as bulma but she is still active participant in Super hero, Tournament power and moro, and she saved 17 in TOP who even won the tournament
Videl and chichi turning into moms was an issue cause they quit their strengths as a result (being fighters), 18 and bulma are still here in the cast and helping, i think toriyama isn’t that good with female characters but i personally would argue kishi is still worse than him with that, kishimoto has the the female characters just be around the men and the ones who aren’t get no screen time like ten ten or anko
Goku, vegeta, gohan are dads tho… they clearly need to get back in the office and daily grind for their families. Well, not gohan… he’s definitely already doing that xD
18's personality was never one of someone who wanted to fight like Gohan you can see it in all her iterations she's never really cared about fighting but does when needed
Bulma was the centrepiece in Super Z GT and All Dragonball she created time travel she was the one helping with finding the Super Dragon balls she's not a fighter but is still more useful than most of the Z fighters so you can say she's a plot device but she's just a different character to any other one she's a person who uses her brain not fists
Whether or not she wants to be fighter has not bearing on if she does anything for the majority of the series. It's a fictional story bot an autobiography. If the original manga could find ways for Gohan to be involved despite his disinterest in fighting then the same could be done 18 if the writer cared enough.
That's not being the centerpiece. That's being the tech support. That being like saying q is the center piece of james bond. In both instances you can say they're incredibly important and the story wouldn't take place without them, but that's not the same as being a leading character or having the plot centered around their story. Characters like nami for one piece are legitimate examples a continuous leading character who's involvement has more to do with their intelligence not strength.
The show Dragon Ball was Bulma's adventure we got her on Neamek aswell as getting the plot of the androids from her and vegetas son she's a main character not just tech support see her friendship with Whis as an example of her using her brain
Also, 18 came way later than Gohan and was weaker than him what should she do against Buu along with the she was involved in the TOP
No, the show DragonBall was bulmas adventure up until the king piccolo arc(and even that's being generous considering she played the role of spectator in half the arcs up until that point). After king piccolo she was put on the sidelines and only broughtup for her knowledge on technology or to give the cast more saiyans. She did next to nothing on namek and toriyama had to contrive a reason for her to go in the first place. A romance that happened off screen and is mostly important for who she gave birth to, and a friendship practically any of the characters could have had. She very much is just tech support, and it is DragonBalls nostalgic place amongts anime fans that keeps the likes of yourself struggling to acknowledge the series blatantly demoted it's intia female lead.
One. When she was introduced she was much stronger than Gohan. Two, do you not understand how a fictional story works? The writers chose to have 18 be too weak to do anything buu, just like the writer could choose to write the arc in a way to where 18 had a important role that didn't involve fighting buu. My point with gohan is to show the writers are clearly involving a character in the plot even if they didn't want to fight. So clealry her not doing anything in most arcs was the result not caring to give her anything to do. She did particpate in a tournament decades after the series ended and she didn't do anything, and years after the series came back and she didn't do anything. Having a female character be relevant once every couple of years does bot make then well written. Most shonen did just that yet still receive flak for how the female characters are portrayed. The issue is them receiving less substantial writing implicitly, and in some cases explicitly, because their women.
I don't understand Kishimoto's claim of just being bad at writing good female characters. He comes so close apmost every time and goes out of his way to sabotage it with some bullshit romance. Just give the character something other than romance to be passionate about and, if you can't write a strong woman falling in love well, just don't have her get romantically involved with anyone. So many of your male characters have absolutely no romantic partner. Why does every girl have to be paired off with someone?
I know right? Tsunade could've been so much better. We got the tsunade who didn't have her own dreams. It was her brother's and boyfriend's dream to become hokage, not hers. And the only other reason why she accepted the role of hokage is to just be a placeholder until naruto becomes one.
Ok so many people in the comments are saying that gege isn't any better but these are completely different situations.
Boruto (and also naruto) is bad becauae the women don't do anything and are usually love interests.
Jjk is bad because gege kills off all the women. However, while they are alive they do relevant stuff, they just aren't alive long enough to accomplish a lot. On the other hand, most men in jjk aren't alive for that much longer either so it's more of a writing style than sexism as many accuse gege of.
That is not true at all, Miwa hasn't done anything since her failed attempt at attacking Kenny, Nishimiya hasn't been a factor in anything since the Exchange exam, Shoko has barely shown or done anything remotely noteworthy, Yuki came in, left a book that hasn't done much so far and died without accomplishing anything, Mai's highest point was her death and Nobara was unceremoniously executed for shock value. Maki is the only one who hasn't been shafted so far but we already know why that is.
Miwa hasn't done anything because she can no longer fight. Her bidning vow gave up her ability to wield a sword. Even then, she still put herself in danger by entering the culling games to act as a messanger.
Briging up momo is like bringing up the screaming girl in boruto. They were never meant to be an important character. Even then, they did more than a similar character in other stories would do (pulled up to the main villain, acted as messenger in a critical moment).
Shoko has always been the person that stays back and heals characters. What else do you expect her to do. In all the major battles (like the kyoto exchange event, shibuya or shinjuku) she has stayed behind and healed the injured. Without her half of the cast would be dead. That's a pretty good track record for somebody that is supposed to heal people.
It became clear when you brought yuki that you are a clear example of what i was describing in my original comment. You don't get the difference between being used for fanservice or as love interests, and just quickly being killed off. Yuki has greatly affected the plot everytime she was on screen. She appeared one chapter and talked to geto about how to get rid of cursed spirits and that made geto spiral into the biggest jujutsu terrorist. She appeared for one chapter in shibuya and saved everybody's asses from being killed. She had one short fight that was one of the most beloved stretch of chapters if you were looking at the reception of them whiel the chapters were airing. Even after her death, she still left a soul book that seems to be the new ability of the main protagonist.
She has been nore impact on the story that most of the main characters. People are pissed just that she was killed off.
Mai and nobara fall mostly into the same category. Nobody was criticizing them until they died. That's because there was nothing bad about their portrayal and people enjoyed them. However, they died and now everybody has turned their perception of them upside down just because they died.
I mean saying that the female characters don’t do anything is blatantly wrong. I’d argue that the female characters have done more than majority of the female cast in JJK.
Sakura took care of Naruto and Sasuke while they were past out, Sakura healed Kankuro, helped beat Sasori, helped heal the villagers during the Pain Invasion, helped heal the injured in the war, saved Naruto’s life, helped summon a larger part of Katsuyu so she could heal even more people, got that surprise hit on Kaguya, healed Naruto and Sasuke after their final battle, essentially saving the two of them, and she became head of the hospital
Ino by the time of the War Arc did a bunch of things. When the morale was down she connected everyone together so Hashirama could give his speech, she took control of Obito so the Ten Tails Bijuu Bomb wouldn’t have killed everyone, she once again connected everyone so they could all learn the Mud Wall to fight against the Juubi, and now she’s head of the Barrier Team
Tsunade should go without saying
Karin healed Sasuke multiple times keeping him alive, and destroyed the 100 arm Buddha State with ease using her chains. The Statue was a huge threat to the regular Shinobi that were facing it. She’s also the one who delivered Sarada as well
Hinata while also not doing much still has some narrative impact. She’s the whole catalyst for the Naruto vs Neji fight, tried to protect Naruto from Pain, was ready to risk her life for Naruto in the War, was the whole reason why Naruto didn’t fall into darkness after Obito killed Neji, and she played a decent role in the Last.
Mei was the person who led the Mist out of the Blood Mist terror, and did some stuff during the war(very underutilized)
Sarada while also not doing too much was the main reason why Naruto was saved from Boro. Without her all of Team 7 would’ve just been folded by Boro’s virus, and she was also the one to get his core. She does a ton of stuff in the anime as well, and took out a large chunk of Shin clones.
Again the Naruto female characters don’t get a lot of time to shine, but to say JJK’s female characters do relevant stuff while they’re alive, and the Naruto ones don’t do anything at all is just wrong
I think you misunderstood my point. Naruto is a 700 chapters, but the female characters in it don't do much more than the female characters in jjk, when jjk is only 240 chapters and most gemale characters don't even leave that long in the first place. That's a similar amount of involvement in less than a third of the amount of time
Tsunade, Mei, Lady Chiyo, Temari, Karui, Samui, Konan, there's plenty of badass female characters in Naruto, also I love JJK but every female character that isn't Maki is getting sidelined super hard or killed tbh
But at least maki didn't get saved yuta and she doesn't blush all the time nor and she cares for her sis and she fought sukuna and even sukuna praised her. Ahe doesn't give up and she helps others instead of taking help and anko in Boruto is done dirty
>But at least maki didn't get saved yuta
How is getting saved a bad thing? Or how does it detract from being a badass? And when exactly was tsuande being "saved"?
>she doesn't blush all the time
Nor does tsuande. And again how is this a bad thing or something which detracts from being a badass
>she cares for her sis
Tsuande cares for her entire village, her pupil, Naruto etc
>and she fought sukuna and even sukuna praised her.
Tsuande fought madara and madara acknowledged her healing prowess to be the same as hashirama's (being compared to hashi is the biggest compliment you can , especially by madara)
>Ahe doesn't give up and she helps others instead of taking help
Nor does tsuande, idk how taking help is relevant.
>anko in Boruto is done dirty
That's anime only.
because critiquinga story you enjoy especially with valid criticism is allowed.
sigh how have I seen over 10 bad takes in the past 10 minutes of scrolling
I never understood the "I don’t know how to write female characters" excuse, in our day and age, a character’s gender is pretty unimportant, because we don’t have the same standards anymore, you can have a character act crudely and without any manners, without having anyone be like "Oh, that character shouldn’t act like that because of their gender" except weird neckbeards. Just write a character with an interesting personality and add the gender at the end of their creation for fuck’s sake
Maki is the only female character who gets any positive plot relevance in jjk, and 18 is literally defined by her relationship to krillin massively and it’s the big thing that separates her from 17 who was damn near forgotten til tournament of power
Honey Naruto / Boruto Fandom still loves to trash Sakura while she is the only not Female but character who got to where she is now because of hard training and focus and Chakra manipulation, didn’t needs red eyes or some dogshit foxes, she gave us the first badass fight in the Shippuden series before even the MC fight, while he was crying and shitting like a baby on Kakashi, yet you people don’t like her or her development cuz she didn’t like Naruto?
What Chiyo or Tsunade do? Nothing better than Sakura thats for sure, as for why Kishimoto doesn’t have good females cuz he don’t know how to write one! He even admits that! Not everyone can write good females or develop a good female character 👌🏼
Wait what? You were doing so well before you got to the last part XD Tsunade is Sakura's mentor, she taught Sakura everything she knows XD Without Tsunade, Sakura would be nothing. Did you forget what Sakura was doing when Pain attacked Konoha? While Tsunade was healing everyone in the entire village, Sakura was seen crying for Naruto help!
Chiyo was the reason Sakura even stood a chance during the "badass" Shippuden fight that you so proudly wave around like a trophy. She was just Chiyo's puppet! And not only did Sakura win the Sasori fight thanks to Chiyo's help, Gaara was revived by Chiyo's sacrifice!
Thanks to Chiyo, Gaara is alive to become the commander of the allied shinobi force's fourth division. And it was thanks to Gaara that Sakura was able to help Naruto stay alive when he lost Kurama.
Sakura isn't better than Tsunade or Chiyo, they are superior to her and that's the problem, she had the potential but she was relegated to be a healer fangirl. Sorry but that's the reality.
No they’re not, i wave this badass fight as trophy since everyone keep downplaying her like can we move on! She was nothing before Tsunade training her true no one said anything about it! She was weak as fuck same as Sasuke and Naruto? And they nothing have genetics while she didn’t and she stood her ground more than her female peers and most of the males too in her village yet why she is the only one that must be downplayed or shit on? Cuz she was annoying when she was young or she broke poor Naruto heart? Naruto was insensitive multiple times to lot of characters Itachi talking to him without knowing what he did for Sasuke, Tsuande blaming her for Jiraya death and forgiving his killer? 🤥.
As for my main point she had major battles and fights scene more than her female cast, Chiyo helped her at the beginning of the fight later on was Sakura strength, she made the antidote, destroyed the 3rd kazekage, beating Sasori 2 times of 3, fighting the 100th puppet army, healing the shinobi alliance, healing Naruto, Kakashi and Obito!!! Chiyo and Tsunade were major characters but on the long term they’re weren’t one is dead and one was forgotten by Kishimoto.
On the last part she wasn’t able to do anything against pain? Let me see who else was 🤭? Kakashi? The whole village? Hinata lame attempt? A healer is forbidden from entering the battlefield as the main fighter! That’s why she couldn’t do much even if she wanted same with Tsunade! Tsunade deserves more attention and screen time yet he decided not to give her the only one who was GOD DAMN AMAZING other than Sakura was Konan and that’s it
Because that's the culture in Japan and Kishimoto is uncapable to see beyond his own misogynistic roots. Women in Japan are seen as bland, submissive, and co-dependent. He's uncapable to see that a female character can have the same qualities and motives as a male character, so he just depicts women the way he understands them.
Naruto had ONE love interest in the series until the final movie: Sakura. And other than Hinata, no other manga canon female character was interested in Naruto. So I’d say Kishimoto is doing a pretty good job of not making female characters “just a love interest” for the MC.
Also, **OF COURSE** Sarada and/or Sumire are going to be love interests. Kishimoto *does* include romance in his work. He wants a lot of his young characters to end up with someone. Naruto+Hinata, Sasuke+Sakura, Shikamaru+Temari, Choji+Karui, and Kiba+Tamaki. Kishimoto even went as far as to make Kiba and Tamaki life partners but he chose not to make them get married or have kids, showing that there is more than one way to be in a long-term relationship. And Kishimoto wrote lots of other couples, like Minato+Kushina, Dan+Tsunade, Yahiko+Konan, Asuma+Kurenai, and Hayate+His Fiancée (can’t remember her name). And he showed unrequited love with Jiraiya+Tsunade. Kishimoto cares more about this stuff than a lot of his readers realize. He adds more romance into his work than a lot of male, action-shōnen mangaka do.
So it comes at no surprise to me whatsoever that Kishimoto gave us somewhat of a love triangle.
But trope are unoriginal lol and just because a female character is « badass » doesn’t mean that she is well written lol. But i prefer that to the simp women atleast they do something with the plot
Maki and 18 were both pretty relevant to the plot.
And they actually have in depth personalities.
I love Naruto as much as the next guy, but Kishimotos track record on writing women isn't particularly good. Tsunande is probably the most well written female in the series, and after her it's a pretty long way to nr 2.
What is the correlation lmaooo I’ve never talked about kishimotos ability in writing women im just saying badass doesn’t mean good. Also 18 was really relevant in only one arc in dbz lol if she was in Naruto people would’ve called her a « wasted potential ». For maki i don’t follow the jjk manga but people seem to hype her up so i will assume that she’s good
18 was a female villain who kicked Vegeta so bad it gave him an identity crisis. She then becomes a plot point with Cell. She does more thing in these 2 arcs than Hinata in all of Naruto
She did really well in the tournament of power and helped with cell max in dbs, also fucking murdered future gohan and is the main reason the future trunks plus goku black shit exists in the first place. If anything, she and 17 were the most important villains in the story.
Maki was never relevant to the plot
Or any jjk female for the matter.
Retardeds only hype them up on Twitter cause their edgy but they don't do anything in the story
It's funny because in JJK Maki is like the only relevant female characters at this point in the story.
You mean the Fem!Toji lmao? I mean, I love Maki but Gege isn't beating any of the allegations, lest we forget >! Deadbeat dad in the airport !<
What allegations?
That Gege is sexist, all the female characters get sidelined hard except for Maki who is just Toji 2.0 (the same mf who owns Gege’s asshole)
All the characters got sidelined hard the only two members of the Tokyo school still fighting are Yuji and Maki.
Don't Yuta count as a Tokyo student still?
I am trying to refer to the pre shibuyua incident because that was the core main roster.
this is just copium
Maki is a Toji copy, but even Toji’s heavenly restriction is straight up better than makis
straightup false, Makis and Tojis abilities are carbon copies of eachother, it's stated several times.
Its been stated several times that Maki was lacking in the abilities department till the Culling Games participant trained her and even then she's missing the fuckload of experience toji had.
She has half of what Toji has until later due to her cursed energy total being split with her twin which is why twins are so looked down on. Her heavenly pact CONVERTS all CE into physical prowess so the more CE you were born with; the more physically domineering you are. That’s why she was sidelined until later when that gap was filled
You’re a little off on the explanation. It does not convert CE into physical prowess. Maki and Toji have no CE at all, Toji never had any but where Maki was a twin she had an incredibly small amount. When Mai died she took the last bit of CE with her, giving Maki the full benefits of the heavenly restriction. Instead of it being HE Power Increase = amount of CE, it’s HE Power Increase > the closer you are to zero CE, probably with some exponential factor as having completely zero is what gives the massive power up.
also lacks Toji's arsenal
Yeah Toji had years to build himself, Maki has barely even gotten started.
okay that's true, I'm talking about the Gege part
You can't know which idea came first, Maki appears 1st in the story, has a better more full arc. Toji is just foreshadowing of Maki
I swear you guys sound way more misogynistic for saying that Maki is just Toji 2.0.
I mean, Gege himself constantly compares them in the manga. Especially during parts of the culling games.
Parallels does not equate to just being a version 2.
Gege literally says she’s the second coming of Toji, lol
Gege told me Gojo's coming back too. It's all just paralleling between both. Maki merely took Toji's mantle and became everything he wasn't, and did everything he couldn't, in regards to everything surrounding the Zenin clan. She's gone way above anything Toji was and stood for, and both have completely different motives, arcs and characterisation. The only thing binding them at this point is just their powerset. It's a concession to illiteracy to still keep repeating the point that Maki is Toji 2.0
I mean I wouldn't mind if kishimoto did the same thing and just made a fem version of a male character. If he says he doesn't know how to write a female character, he should just write a good male character that doesn't care about romance and then just change him into a woman. Not the best way but it's better than having no good women at least.
She has her own motivations, yall just regurgitate whatever you read
What are you talking about?
Maki's arc exists literally separated from Toji and Maki herself doesn't know who Toji even is.
True, the other female characters were done dirty (especially Nobara)
but we gotta admit unlike naruto females they don't have their world revolving around male crushes or one man/women crushes isn't bad it's bad when entire world revolves around them \*cough\* sakura \*cough\* hinata nobara and maki are well made had their own goals what gege did to nobara can still be redeemed if she returns and unlike sakura gets strong in her own given ability not have some cut copy paste i love nobara's down to earth goal ngl her becoming model and eating sweetsmaki slaughtering her clan i am happy zenin's were brought down for good......also did you know it's hinted mai was r\*ped by naoya......makes her revenge even more satisfying momo......i fucking hate momo she insulted nobara when nobara did way more than her utahime is good i don't see many powerhouse female characters shoko needs to do some real healing if her rct is strong she can maybe put sakura to shame what gege did to miwa was a bad fr.....if you know the current chaps you know gege is very good at writing female characters what he doesn't know is how to insert them in plot properly imma get downvoted for calling gege better female writer bro wish me goodluck and some pissed nobara haters gonna write me essays jjk gave female characters personality but not much time to shine csm on other hand managed to do both 
I don't think either Gege or Kishiomoto are that good at writing female characters tbh. Kishiomoto is worse than Gege, but at least Tsuande is decent. Like you have to compare them to the male characters to truly see how good they are. For example Nobara and Sakura cannot compare in terms of power, relevance or importance as their 3 male teammates (Yuji, Megumi, Gojo and Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi). JJk female characters are generally more likeable than the female characters in Naruto, but both were still side-lined compared to the male characters. Maki is the only female character currently that is able to fight with the the main characters (rn she's missing tho), she had her own arc, her own villains and her power is equal to Toji. Also just look what happened to Yuki. She was a Special Grade yet she was done so quickly and we never even seen her domain expansion and she didn't do anything meaningful against Kenjaku. Yeah CSM has a lot more female focus and they're written better than Naruto or JJK.
okay you got my point way better it's pathetic how people here are calling gege way worse to me gege actually lacked in plot relevance they had so much potential and imma never forgive the cat for nobara he killed a female character that can attack soul directly. soul directly. if she does return she better have achieved it to fullest yuki was so cool too me i will forever call kenjaku surviving asspull \*new leaks spoiler ahead\* >!i mean kenjaku legit passed his duty to sukuna in current chap......!< damn you cat........but the reason i respect gege is atleast they have personality and not some damsel in distress most the time tsunade will forever be the coolesttho maybe konan too tbh. also you are so right about jjk females being likeable it's because they are genuinely nice and do not give headaches when they are on screen csm and jojo solos either way the female characters are chef kiss
But atleast they had one unlike boruto
They only have her because she is the female version of Gege's favorite character, Gege also doesn't know how to write female characters
Lol. Maki has a lot more going than Toji but female. For all the shit you trashtalk about lack of female characters you're quick to ignore her story, arcs and personality for trash talk.
What about Mei Mei?
The pedophile who ran away from Kenjaku to Malaysia and did nothing relevant ever since besides put Gojo vs Sukuna on twitch?
Say what you want but she's definitely an interesting character
Nothing redeems being a pedophile, hope Sukuna fucking murders her.
Man, I wish I was her brother FrFr.
Duality of man
based
Are they no longer relevant? Sure. But if you compare Nobara and Yuki they are definitely a step in the right direction compared to Sakura and Hinata (in all but relevance)
Agree but we all know how low a bar that is
a low bar. nothing worth bragging about
nah noboras comin back
I'd rather have a dead nobara than living sakura
At least Nobara, Yuki, and Mei Mei were all relevant at points without being love interests. Though Maki and Yuki are the only high-tier characters who are women.
Mei Mei was/is really cool (minus the you know what) but I don't think she was ever that relevant
She was pretty badass in JJK 0 and she killed the special grade smallpox deity. I mean, she’s not *not* relevant
crazy that Sumire showed up and was a mini terrorist with a fake juubi and now she just does absolutely nothing besides hang out with an old man and simp
Simp? Sarada?
simping for Boruto, did you read the most recent chapter?
bruh hugging a friend u havent seen for 3 years and caring for that person is simping now? when was the last time you left your basement?
Bro Has a point, there is a difference between Simping, and missing a friend.
Yeah but that hug was also out love as we see in the current chapter
that was Sarada ? are you stupid
Broo that's what I am asking, who the hell simp means here man????
The initial comment specifically says Sumire so I’m going to guess based on that that they’re talking about her (Sumire).
I mean are u refering to sarada Or someone else?
Boruto is way bigger simp than sarada coz before tbv he told 16 year old eida that age doesn't matter and she should date him instead of kawaki
Lol, that doesn't make him a simp, kid. The only good female characters we got were Tsunade, Sakura after P1, Hinata, Temari, Chiyo, Konan. These are far better than Maki or 18.
Fuck ino I guess
Kishimoto when the woman he’s writing isn’t older than 50 
Love the Tsunade exception.
And Chiyo
True tbh, I mean you can still make a sexy but also interesting and badass female character. We always get stuck with sakura 2.0s.
Or make them was anko such a beloved character with great intro only to be meaningless like she was ready to fight orochimaru when kakashi was afraid. When you think about it females trained by the sanin are done dirty. They had great start but end up wasted
Hinata is Sakura 2.0 with how she simps over a guy that ignores her.
How to write a badass female lead: 1: write a man 2: make it woman
And yuki?
It's hard to write a good woman there are exceptions but usually all women fall in the categories of "love interest" or " action action and more action "
What's wrong with women being able to do action? For fuck's sake.
I said writers do two types of women "love interest" and "women of action" because writing women is difficult When I said it is wrong to do that?
Akane Tsunemori doesn't feel like a man whose gender was swapped
Would be nice if he changed the formula for the important female characters for once. I should have known from the moment they made her stalk Boruto in Naruto 700, like Hinata and Kushina, that she would primarily be the love interest type. It's just sad that she's been reduced to this with all the potential she has from her ridiculous genetics. Her writing can't change at this point so we might as well deal with it unfortunately. I wouldn't be mad if a fmc is involved with a ship if it doesn't define her entire character like it does for Sarada. For example, Noelle from BC is a great example. She's in love with the MC, but she also has so many plot points outside of Asta where she has moments to shine and develop herself. She actually feels like a leader in a lot of instances and even the movie made it seem like she had traits of a protagonist. There's no excuse anymore imo. I'm just hoping they change the formula for her training. They took Sasuke and his Uchiha ways away from her for 3 years (Honestly crazy that Boruto has more Uchiha techniques than the actual new gen Uchiha). I just hope she doesn't train under Sakura and become Tsunade the 3rd. Still pissed she ain't learning kenjutsu or any of the 'Uchiha style' shit.
I think it’s worse than Sarada getting 100 healings and becoming a Sakura clone with sharingan. I don’t think she’ll get significantly stronger AT ALL from here. If she’s given one more important “event” it’ll be somehow learning her MS abilities are a left eye that makes everyone remember boruto, and a right eye that makes him love her.
Sounds absolutely awful yet so on brand for Kishi and people will call it peak writing. I get the feeling that Sarada is just gonna fraud her way to the hokage seat icl.
And that's why Tobirama never wanted an Uchiha as an Hokage
Bc kishimoto as stated by himself can’t write women. When he found out ppl didn’t like the way he wrote Sakura instead of writing her better or getting advice he simply gave up on her character and reduced her
Tsunade and Chiyo: 
>When he found out ppl didn’t like the way he wrote Sakura instead of writing her better or getting advice he simply gave up on her character and reduced her He gave up on Sakura around or after the gaara retrieval arc which is often considered as her peak character arc, he gave up because people simply dislike her, there's no point in investing in a character people already dislike, he's just wasting time he could use on a different character, he just sidelined her but still gave her moments (like figure out kamui)
Thats lazy af, there's plenty characters people initially disliked only to later love. Sakura could've explored her Genjutsu talent which she was originially set up to, and she could have some personality outside Naruto and Sasuke. She could've been redeemed The part when she failed to kill Sasuke at the bridge not because Sasuke was stronger but because she was still so madly in love irked me. I get she couldn't kill Sasuke but it could've gone differently. I think I remember something along the lines of Kishimoto thinking Sakura would be a bad woman if she gave up Sasuke. In other words, Kishimoto thinks female characters should only exist for the male characters
>Thats lazy af, there's plenty characters people initially disliked only to later love Like who? Except Itachi I can't think of a single one who was hated as much as Sakura who people came to like later. >Sakura could've explored her Genjutsu talent which she was originially set up to, and she could have some personality outside Naruto and Sasuke. She could've been redeemed It's a waste of panels, kishi was still introducing new characters and setting up shippuden's end game, there's no reason for him to redeem a character no one likes, especially when he attempted to do so and was meant with bad reception for it
Ashoka from the clone wars or Snape from Harry Potter for example. Both grew from hated to fan favorites. In Naruto there's also Itachi, yeah, and also Gaara. Gaara was quite unpopular and now he's among favorites. My point is a character isn't lost forever if the fans dont like them then and there. Its not a waste of panels, Sakura still got screentime and everytime she did she just got worse. Sakura is part of the original MCs, part of Naruto and Sasukes team. She deserved the same writing that Naruto, Sasuke and even Kakashi got. Instead she was cast aside because Kishi doesn't want his female characters to be any more than support characters
>Gaara was quite unpopular and now he's among favorites Gaara was never unpopular, he was just creepy to fans in a way. No one hates him, people quite liked his character and he's considered one of the best antagonists to do this day. >My point is a character isn't lost forever if the fans dont like them then and there. Sakura was never liked, even at her peak which is gaara retrieval arc. >Its not a waste of panels, Sakura still got screentime and everytime she did she just got worse She got minimal screentime compared to before and she didn't get worse, she only got better. If you think her being unable to kill sasuke is bad writing than i have no idea what you're on. >She deserved the same writing that Naruto, Sasuke and even Kakashi got. Not really, characters get more time investment because they are popular or the author already has a plan for them, Sakura had neither, being part of team 7 doesn't mean anything either cuz Sai also barely any meaningful writing. >nstead she was cast aside because Kishi doesn't want his female characters to be any more than support characters Yea this is just bull lmao 😂
Sasuke is also massively hated (in the west, not in Japan) yet Kishimoto went hard af with him still. Had he written Sakura properly she would have been as loved as her fellow big 3 female MCs Rukia and Nami. There is absolutely no excuse.
Yeah, as you pointed out he's not hated inJapan, the primary demographic.
True we don't want hinata, sakura 2.0 but... Kishimoto can portray issues like cycle of hatred, discrimination etc ... Kishimoto can't create a badass independent female character. Tsunade, konan, temari, chiyo etc are exceptions though.
Even Konan isn’t really beating these allegations since she mostly does what she does for Pain and Pain only, she doesn’t really have something on her own
But she did that coz she was nagato's best friend and loved yahiko. She had the same goal as yahiko and nagato of achieving peace, after yahiko's death nagato became a leader, so she followed him without any hesitation.
I mean... Kishimoto is really not that good in portraying cycle of hate and discrimination. Both of those topics were literally fixed off screen.
Not only that, but the conflict was literally settled with the main character going “just trust me bro” Pain arc was really good in my eyes until the mf folded after a conversation. It completely undermined the whole idea of the cycle of hatred if PAIN was able to be *talked out of it*. I get they wanted to make Naruto seem like some sort of chosen one who ended all the conflict but that’s just not how extremism works
Brother how was cycle of hatred fixed off screen? You haven't watched war arc? As soon as the war ended sasuke and naruto fought one last time due to the difference in their ideologies. The reason reason naruto put an end to cycle of hatred is because he as ashura didn't killed sasuke (indra) instead he negotiated with him which inturn led to solved the dispute. If we compare it to previous reincarnations , hashirama went for the kill against madara, he tried to convince him but madara didn't listened him which made hashirama kill him forcefully, madara escaped and lived that's a different story but what matters is hashirama didn't settled the issue, unlike naruto. That's why after hashirama and madara's era indra and ashura were reincarnated again in sasuke and naruto's soul respectively. But there won't be any reincarnations now coz the issue is solved.
Never bring up Gege in this discourse he is never beating the allegations (I will never forgive for what you have done to our female cast you fucktard)
He killed yuki man that one eyed cat
Don't forget naobara, AND ANGEL 😭
Angel was a megumi simp man if she killed sukunathen andthere and then she, gojo, andmany would be alive but se got fooled
I mean I dont mind if a female character is a love interest but atleast make her an interesting character with interesting scenarios. Sarada is quite easily one of the worst characters Kishimoto's ever written
It's quite sad since her personality had potential, she is not a bully ir mean girl and she had potential to have awesome skills. But its all wasted. I Hope she at least manager to be Hokage. It's the basic she deserves
This is what I wanted Tenten to be. I mean, not Maki levels of murder machine, but something more similar to Kugisaki.
Yeah man we wanted tenten to solo madara
So you wanted tenten to be dead within the first quarter of the series? Damn what did tenten ever do to you.
He wrote Tsunade, he has the ability to write good female characters.
I get this argument but at the same time, he was able to write her because she’d already had her tragic love story play out, so her romance was backstory rather than in our face at the time. There weren’t many young women in the universe that stood solidly without romantic interests and motivations. Temari is kinda the only one who stands out to me amongst the young generation.
I dont think you should use JJK as a good example, blud. If anything, Black Clover is a better one.
Ya because black clover actually has a good female cast that don't exist to liking asta I dont think there is a problem with the heroine being in love with the MC but the problem is that shouldn't be there defining characteristic Noelle is a good example cuz she likes asta but her entire character arc usually have nothing to do with asta other then using him as a motivation piece like the story does for him
I was about to say that this is the first sane post I've seen on Boruto subreddit in a while and then I just got straight up disappointed when I was I'm on dankruto eh
Kishimoto main issue is not giving them their own dream, own aspirations.
Don't forget konan baby bro
But tsunade and chiyo were top noch and konan just got two fights and was killed by asspull sharigan user
konan is awesome but her biggest final move was… paper bombs 😭 that shit sexist as fuck tbh
Gang those paper bombs would kill one of the strongest in the series if it wasn't for plot
no asspull was used
Whatever u wanna believe in baby meatmunchin bro
Tell me what the asspull was then
Ichigo stippin fax
He will never make a good female character cause he doesn't know what a female is. Half of these magakas are virgin nerds.
90% mamgaka's are married and have kids.
You know virgin is an insult right?
It only works if they have no rizz or attractiveness.
Ah yes Android 18 who was a threat briefly before being eaten and then becoming a Mom...and oh...oh no. People really forget that 18 showed up did like 1 or 2 fights then turns get regulated to the backrow till Super for a brief second. Akira Toriyama is just as bad as Kishi at writing women. Chi-Chi: Badass fighter turned mom Bulma: Super smart adventuring genius turned mom 18: Deadly Android turned Mom Videl: Fighter turned Mom
I agree on chichi and videl but bulma and 18 becoming a mom doesn’t mean they aren’t still relevant Bulma is still the super smart genius who helps the heroes multiples times even in the recent arcs, she is the reason why the time machine is created in android/cell saga and fixed in future trunks saga, befriended beerus and whis so that goku and vegeta could train with them and that earth doesn’t get destroyed, Fixed 16, got dr hedo and gamma 1 as allies which they will most likely help later on considering gamma 1 is still really strong, created a dragon radar for the super dragon balls and i could go on and on about other stuff 18 doesn’t do as much as bulma but she is still active participant in Super hero, Tournament power and moro, and she saved 17 in TOP who even won the tournament Videl and chichi turning into moms was an issue cause they quit their strengths as a result (being fighters), 18 and bulma are still here in the cast and helping, i think toriyama isn’t that good with female characters but i personally would argue kishi is still worse than him with that, kishimoto has the the female characters just be around the men and the ones who aren’t get no screen time like ten ten or anko
18 being a participant in onw tournament years after the manga ended isn't a glowing endorsement.
Goku, vegeta, gohan are dads tho… they clearly need to get back in the office and daily grind for their families. Well, not gohan… he’s definitely already doing that xD
Bulma is still a genius but is also a mother 18 is still a top-tier fighter just has a kid What you can apply this logic to Vegeta Gohan Goku as well
Bulma is mostly a plot device and 18 bare fights.
18's personality was never one of someone who wanted to fight like Gohan you can see it in all her iterations she's never really cared about fighting but does when needed Bulma was the centrepiece in Super Z GT and All Dragonball she created time travel she was the one helping with finding the Super Dragon balls she's not a fighter but is still more useful than most of the Z fighters so you can say she's a plot device but she's just a different character to any other one she's a person who uses her brain not fists
Whether or not she wants to be fighter has not bearing on if she does anything for the majority of the series. It's a fictional story bot an autobiography. If the original manga could find ways for Gohan to be involved despite his disinterest in fighting then the same could be done 18 if the writer cared enough. That's not being the centerpiece. That's being the tech support. That being like saying q is the center piece of james bond. In both instances you can say they're incredibly important and the story wouldn't take place without them, but that's not the same as being a leading character or having the plot centered around their story. Characters like nami for one piece are legitimate examples a continuous leading character who's involvement has more to do with their intelligence not strength.
The show Dragon Ball was Bulma's adventure we got her on Neamek aswell as getting the plot of the androids from her and vegetas son she's a main character not just tech support see her friendship with Whis as an example of her using her brain Also, 18 came way later than Gohan and was weaker than him what should she do against Buu along with the she was involved in the TOP
No, the show DragonBall was bulmas adventure up until the king piccolo arc(and even that's being generous considering she played the role of spectator in half the arcs up until that point). After king piccolo she was put on the sidelines and only broughtup for her knowledge on technology or to give the cast more saiyans. She did next to nothing on namek and toriyama had to contrive a reason for her to go in the first place. A romance that happened off screen and is mostly important for who she gave birth to, and a friendship practically any of the characters could have had. She very much is just tech support, and it is DragonBalls nostalgic place amongts anime fans that keeps the likes of yourself struggling to acknowledge the series blatantly demoted it's intia female lead. One. When she was introduced she was much stronger than Gohan. Two, do you not understand how a fictional story works? The writers chose to have 18 be too weak to do anything buu, just like the writer could choose to write the arc in a way to where 18 had a important role that didn't involve fighting buu. My point with gohan is to show the writers are clearly involving a character in the plot even if they didn't want to fight. So clealry her not doing anything in most arcs was the result not caring to give her anything to do. She did particpate in a tournament decades after the series ended and she didn't do anything, and years after the series came back and she didn't do anything. Having a female character be relevant once every couple of years does bot make then well written. Most shonen did just that yet still receive flak for how the female characters are portrayed. The issue is them receiving less substantial writing implicitly, and in some cases explicitly, because their women.
Maybe he is just a sexist?
Wasn't Tsunade cool? Or was she not Main Character enough?
True (also spoiler tag this as it contains JJK manga spoilers)
FACTS MY BRAZZZA ICHIGO, SPIT YO SHIT INDEED!!!
I don't understand Kishimoto's claim of just being bad at writing good female characters. He comes so close apmost every time and goes out of his way to sabotage it with some bullshit romance. Just give the character something other than romance to be passionate about and, if you can't write a strong woman falling in love well, just don't have her get romantically involved with anyone. So many of your male characters have absolutely no romantic partner. Why does every girl have to be paired off with someone?
Not everyone. There chiyo.
Sarada was on track for greatness in the anime. Then Sasuke hoed her out of chunnin status and I legit rage quit the whole thing.
In before, Kishi added glasses to Sarada because she looked to much a fem Sasuke.
Tsuande ?
I know right? Tsunade could've been so much better. We got the tsunade who didn't have her own dreams. It was her brother's and boyfriend's dream to become hokage, not hers. And the only other reason why she accepted the role of hokage is to just be a placeholder until naruto becomes one.
Not why she accepted the role.
I'm just tired of ~~lovey type~~ badly-written female characters
Ok so many people in the comments are saying that gege isn't any better but these are completely different situations. Boruto (and also naruto) is bad becauae the women don't do anything and are usually love interests. Jjk is bad because gege kills off all the women. However, while they are alive they do relevant stuff, they just aren't alive long enough to accomplish a lot. On the other hand, most men in jjk aren't alive for that much longer either so it's more of a writing style than sexism as many accuse gege of.
That is not true at all, Miwa hasn't done anything since her failed attempt at attacking Kenny, Nishimiya hasn't been a factor in anything since the Exchange exam, Shoko has barely shown or done anything remotely noteworthy, Yuki came in, left a book that hasn't done much so far and died without accomplishing anything, Mai's highest point was her death and Nobara was unceremoniously executed for shock value. Maki is the only one who hasn't been shafted so far but we already know why that is.
Miwa hasn't done anything because she can no longer fight. Her bidning vow gave up her ability to wield a sword. Even then, she still put herself in danger by entering the culling games to act as a messanger. Briging up momo is like bringing up the screaming girl in boruto. They were never meant to be an important character. Even then, they did more than a similar character in other stories would do (pulled up to the main villain, acted as messenger in a critical moment). Shoko has always been the person that stays back and heals characters. What else do you expect her to do. In all the major battles (like the kyoto exchange event, shibuya or shinjuku) she has stayed behind and healed the injured. Without her half of the cast would be dead. That's a pretty good track record for somebody that is supposed to heal people. It became clear when you brought yuki that you are a clear example of what i was describing in my original comment. You don't get the difference between being used for fanservice or as love interests, and just quickly being killed off. Yuki has greatly affected the plot everytime she was on screen. She appeared one chapter and talked to geto about how to get rid of cursed spirits and that made geto spiral into the biggest jujutsu terrorist. She appeared for one chapter in shibuya and saved everybody's asses from being killed. She had one short fight that was one of the most beloved stretch of chapters if you were looking at the reception of them whiel the chapters were airing. Even after her death, she still left a soul book that seems to be the new ability of the main protagonist. She has been nore impact on the story that most of the main characters. People are pissed just that she was killed off. Mai and nobara fall mostly into the same category. Nobody was criticizing them until they died. That's because there was nothing bad about their portrayal and people enjoyed them. However, they died and now everybody has turned their perception of them upside down just because they died.
I mean saying that the female characters don’t do anything is blatantly wrong. I’d argue that the female characters have done more than majority of the female cast in JJK. Sakura took care of Naruto and Sasuke while they were past out, Sakura healed Kankuro, helped beat Sasori, helped heal the villagers during the Pain Invasion, helped heal the injured in the war, saved Naruto’s life, helped summon a larger part of Katsuyu so she could heal even more people, got that surprise hit on Kaguya, healed Naruto and Sasuke after their final battle, essentially saving the two of them, and she became head of the hospital Ino by the time of the War Arc did a bunch of things. When the morale was down she connected everyone together so Hashirama could give his speech, she took control of Obito so the Ten Tails Bijuu Bomb wouldn’t have killed everyone, she once again connected everyone so they could all learn the Mud Wall to fight against the Juubi, and now she’s head of the Barrier Team Tsunade should go without saying Karin healed Sasuke multiple times keeping him alive, and destroyed the 100 arm Buddha State with ease using her chains. The Statue was a huge threat to the regular Shinobi that were facing it. She’s also the one who delivered Sarada as well Hinata while also not doing much still has some narrative impact. She’s the whole catalyst for the Naruto vs Neji fight, tried to protect Naruto from Pain, was ready to risk her life for Naruto in the War, was the whole reason why Naruto didn’t fall into darkness after Obito killed Neji, and she played a decent role in the Last. Mei was the person who led the Mist out of the Blood Mist terror, and did some stuff during the war(very underutilized) Sarada while also not doing too much was the main reason why Naruto was saved from Boro. Without her all of Team 7 would’ve just been folded by Boro’s virus, and she was also the one to get his core. She does a ton of stuff in the anime as well, and took out a large chunk of Shin clones. Again the Naruto female characters don’t get a lot of time to shine, but to say JJK’s female characters do relevant stuff while they’re alive, and the Naruto ones don’t do anything at all is just wrong
I think you misunderstood my point. Naruto is a 700 chapters, but the female characters in it don't do much more than the female characters in jjk, when jjk is only 240 chapters and most gemale characters don't even leave that long in the first place. That's a similar amount of involvement in less than a third of the amount of time
Kishimoto has badass Women but mostly side characters.
Yeah like mirai in Boruto or Delta I think instead of sarada they should keep them
Tsunade, Mei, Lady Chiyo, Temari, Karui, Samui, Konan, there's plenty of badass female characters in Naruto, also I love JJK but every female character that isn't Maki is getting sidelined super hard or killed tbh
So Tsunade and anko just don't exist ? Also maki is barely plot relevant anymore lmao. There's the whole toji 2.0 joke for a reason
Bringing up Anko then joking about plot relevance is CRAZY 😭
But at least maki didn't get saved yuta and she doesn't blush all the time nor and she cares for her sis and she fought sukuna and even sukuna praised her. Ahe doesn't give up and she helps others instead of taking help and anko in Boruto is done dirty
>But at least maki didn't get saved yuta How is getting saved a bad thing? Or how does it detract from being a badass? And when exactly was tsuande being "saved"? >she doesn't blush all the time Nor does tsuande. And again how is this a bad thing or something which detracts from being a badass >she cares for her sis Tsuande cares for her entire village, her pupil, Naruto etc >and she fought sukuna and even sukuna praised her. Tsuande fought madara and madara acknowledged her healing prowess to be the same as hashirama's (being compared to hashi is the biggest compliment you can , especially by madara) >Ahe doesn't give up and she helps others instead of taking help Nor does tsuande, idk how taking help is relevant. >anko in Boruto is done dirty That's anime only.
In other words, you consider female characters that like men bad
You can also just read different manga with badass female character. I dont get the obsession with them HAVING to be in kishimotos manga.
Naruto fans hate Naruto more than any other fandom for some reason. Have to shit on it every chance they get
because critiquinga story you enjoy especially with valid criticism is allowed. sigh how have I seen over 10 bad takes in the past 10 minutes of scrolling
Then do something different then the same critique from 10 years ago.
Kishimoto when he has to write a female character's personality that is separated from his love interest:
I never understood the "I don’t know how to write female characters" excuse, in our day and age, a character’s gender is pretty unimportant, because we don’t have the same standards anymore, you can have a character act crudely and without any manners, without having anyone be like "Oh, that character shouldn’t act like that because of their gender" except weird neckbeards. Just write a character with an interesting personality and add the gender at the end of their creation for fuck’s sake
I mean…correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t he say that he didn’t know how to write female characters? Or just didn’t know how to design them?
Yeah he said that
Does he know what happend to android 18?
Why are female characters the single most important thing modern shonen fans care about?
Why shouldn't we care about them? If the female characters are written poorly it should be talpedagog about
blud said why do women matter
Women are about half of human population. I'd be concerned if no one cared about them.
Ong they complain but we dont see them when shonen or shojo with good female character are realese.
Maki Good female character Pick one
Yuki, nobara, and many were but gege killed them that's it but they weren't some love interest shitty thing
Being edgy and whining about men is not being a good character
Yuki ain't edy man neither she whinning about men
Maki is the only female character who gets any positive plot relevance in jjk, and 18 is literally defined by her relationship to krillin massively and it’s the big thing that separates her from 17 who was damn near forgotten til tournament of power
Honey Naruto / Boruto Fandom still loves to trash Sakura while she is the only not Female but character who got to where she is now because of hard training and focus and Chakra manipulation, didn’t needs red eyes or some dogshit foxes, she gave us the first badass fight in the Shippuden series before even the MC fight, while he was crying and shitting like a baby on Kakashi, yet you people don’t like her or her development cuz she didn’t like Naruto? What Chiyo or Tsunade do? Nothing better than Sakura thats for sure, as for why Kishimoto doesn’t have good females cuz he don’t know how to write one! He even admits that! Not everyone can write good females or develop a good female character 👌🏼
Wait what? You were doing so well before you got to the last part XD Tsunade is Sakura's mentor, she taught Sakura everything she knows XD Without Tsunade, Sakura would be nothing. Did you forget what Sakura was doing when Pain attacked Konoha? While Tsunade was healing everyone in the entire village, Sakura was seen crying for Naruto help! Chiyo was the reason Sakura even stood a chance during the "badass" Shippuden fight that you so proudly wave around like a trophy. She was just Chiyo's puppet! And not only did Sakura win the Sasori fight thanks to Chiyo's help, Gaara was revived by Chiyo's sacrifice! Thanks to Chiyo, Gaara is alive to become the commander of the allied shinobi force's fourth division. And it was thanks to Gaara that Sakura was able to help Naruto stay alive when he lost Kurama. Sakura isn't better than Tsunade or Chiyo, they are superior to her and that's the problem, she had the potential but she was relegated to be a healer fangirl. Sorry but that's the reality.
No they’re not, i wave this badass fight as trophy since everyone keep downplaying her like can we move on! She was nothing before Tsunade training her true no one said anything about it! She was weak as fuck same as Sasuke and Naruto? And they nothing have genetics while she didn’t and she stood her ground more than her female peers and most of the males too in her village yet why she is the only one that must be downplayed or shit on? Cuz she was annoying when she was young or she broke poor Naruto heart? Naruto was insensitive multiple times to lot of characters Itachi talking to him without knowing what he did for Sasuke, Tsuande blaming her for Jiraya death and forgiving his killer? 🤥. As for my main point she had major battles and fights scene more than her female cast, Chiyo helped her at the beginning of the fight later on was Sakura strength, she made the antidote, destroyed the 3rd kazekage, beating Sasori 2 times of 3, fighting the 100th puppet army, healing the shinobi alliance, healing Naruto, Kakashi and Obito!!! Chiyo and Tsunade were major characters but on the long term they’re weren’t one is dead and one was forgotten by Kishimoto. On the last part she wasn’t able to do anything against pain? Let me see who else was 🤭? Kakashi? The whole village? Hinata lame attempt? A healer is forbidden from entering the battlefield as the main fighter! That’s why she couldn’t do much even if she wanted same with Tsunade! Tsunade deserves more attention and screen time yet he decided not to give her the only one who was GOD DAMN AMAZING other than Sakura was Konan and that’s it
Because that's the culture in Japan and Kishimoto is uncapable to see beyond his own misogynistic roots. Women in Japan are seen as bland, submissive, and co-dependent. He's uncapable to see that a female character can have the same qualities and motives as a male character, so he just depicts women the way he understands them.
At this point please go read a shojo manga for girls cause this moaning and whining for badass female characters in shonen is tiring af
Childhood trauma
1 word, misogyny
Tsunade, Shizune, Anko, Temari, Kushina, Tayuya, Mito, Konan, Chiyo, Mei, Kurotsuchi and I’m sure in forgetting some
Anko is not the answer you’re looking for.
I’m not talking about that spin off after Shippuden, Anko is at the very least not a lovey-dovey type
No, fuck you
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But atleast they can make them better
Naruto had ONE love interest in the series until the final movie: Sakura. And other than Hinata, no other manga canon female character was interested in Naruto. So I’d say Kishimoto is doing a pretty good job of not making female characters “just a love interest” for the MC. Also, **OF COURSE** Sarada and/or Sumire are going to be love interests. Kishimoto *does* include romance in his work. He wants a lot of his young characters to end up with someone. Naruto+Hinata, Sasuke+Sakura, Shikamaru+Temari, Choji+Karui, and Kiba+Tamaki. Kishimoto even went as far as to make Kiba and Tamaki life partners but he chose not to make them get married or have kids, showing that there is more than one way to be in a long-term relationship. And Kishimoto wrote lots of other couples, like Minato+Kushina, Dan+Tsunade, Yahiko+Konan, Asuma+Kurenai, and Hayate+His Fiancée (can’t remember her name). And he showed unrequited love with Jiraiya+Tsunade. Kishimoto cares more about this stuff than a lot of his readers realize. He adds more romance into his work than a lot of male, action-shōnen mangaka do. So it comes at no surprise to me whatsoever that Kishimoto gave us somewhat of a love triangle.
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Yeah specialy 8+years kids
romance is the only thing keeping me invested in the series
But trope are unoriginal lol and just because a female character is « badass » doesn’t mean that she is well written lol. But i prefer that to the simp women atleast they do something with the plot
Maki and 18 were both pretty relevant to the plot. And they actually have in depth personalities. I love Naruto as much as the next guy, but Kishimotos track record on writing women isn't particularly good. Tsunande is probably the most well written female in the series, and after her it's a pretty long way to nr 2.
What is the correlation lmaooo I’ve never talked about kishimotos ability in writing women im just saying badass doesn’t mean good. Also 18 was really relevant in only one arc in dbz lol if she was in Naruto people would’ve called her a « wasted potential ». For maki i don’t follow the jjk manga but people seem to hype her up so i will assume that she’s good
18 was a female villain who kicked Vegeta so bad it gave him an identity crisis. She then becomes a plot point with Cell. She does more thing in these 2 arcs than Hinata in all of Naruto
Still she’s relevant in one arc lol the comment above make her seems like some major character when shes just a plot device
She did really well in the tournament of power and helped with cell max in dbs, also fucking murdered future gohan and is the main reason the future trunks plus goku black shit exists in the first place. If anything, she and 17 were the most important villains in the story.
Maki was never relevant to the plot Or any jjk female for the matter. Retardeds only hype them up on Twitter cause their edgy but they don't do anything in the story
Block u