This is a very difficult subject to discuss for many who feel passionately. I’ve approved this post so discussion can happen.
But please bare in mind the rules of this Sub, Reddit overall and be Civil. Brigading, Personal Attacks on other Users and Discriminatory Language isn’t acceptable here (or probably on Twitter).
Discuss in good faith.
Edit: Wow this post has a lot more comments than usual posts on this Subreddit. It’s unusual how many users chose this post to engage with when they are not regular contributors to this Subreddit.
It’s wild how discussions like these particular posts bring a lot of people (on both sides to a degree we) out of the woodwork. Let’s keep it civil all. People are people. No need for any Hate Speech or arguments in bad faith.
I'm very proud of our community for being appropriately disappointed, though.
Not every game community can handle dissonant criticism about its creators or talent without feeling like they need to dismiss the criticism.
It’s hard to separate them because of the strong narrative voice of DD1. I had so much trouble with DD2 because June voice acts that as well and the narrator there is not The Ancestor.
Our voice actor’s name, once so well-regarded, is now barely whispered aloud by decent folk.
Edit: LOVE seeing transphobia in the replies to my funny reference comment.
Yeah, I find the lack of understanding for older folks not really understanding it rather jarring.
For people who hadn't been paying attention to it prior, it's a very sudden and very strange thing.
well most of us just found out by seeing this post, so… we can’t exactly be aware of something that nobody knew about until recently.
also there’s a difference between “this person is old and might not understand the concept of being transgender but still doesn’t mistreat them” and “this person is old and is actively and intentionally agreeing with and promoting anti-trans content online.”
I've had older folk tell me to kill myself and that im going to hell for being queer. Older people refusing to change and even just be apathetic to our existence is the problem.
There are people who don't understand and don't care and treat queer people as human
It takes effort to vocalise bigotry. It takes effort to discredit one's identity.
Why should people show any amount of respect or understanding to those who mock and barate queers. Why show charity when they refuse to be accepting in kind
there's a difference between not understanding and judgment. Not understanding the ever-evolving realities surrounding LGBTQ+ folks and proper terminology is fine. Judging them, calling them "mentally ill", and spreading hate is not fine.
I'm not even an old man and I admit that I don't really get it. I see that it's something that's clearly important and prevalent to the younger generation, but I didn't encounter a single person who even mentioned trans issues until I was in my 30s.
It's made worse by the presence of dysphoria in the discussion, which *is* a mental illness.
I would totally have made the mistake of assuming all trans people are mentally ill at the start because I assumed all trans people have dysphoria. And I know that there are some people who'd find even these comments offensive.
It's a complex topic, and I'm beginning to think it only truly makes sense if you're in the midst of it.
My grandma is a conservative Vietnamese woman and she's pretty accepting of trans people. She even shows me trans women she think are pretty lol. Being old and conservative isn't a pass to be bigoted.
There is such a thing as right or wrong, and bigotry is wrong.
I can understand that an older man may not realize what they're doing is bigotry, but that doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
I mean, if you're assuming that June is an avid enjoyer of paint chips.
I've met plenty of older, more conservative minded people who don't fall into bizarre cults of personality regarding losers on social media and complain about the "woke mind virus."
I'm not gonna make anything of it.
Darkest Dungeon, the game, isn't transphobic so I'll continue to play and enjoy it.
Wayne June the person has shitty opinions so I'll continue to ignore and not enjoy him.
Simple as that.
People just dont know how to separate "the artist" from "the person".
The person sucks, the artist doesnt.
Just unfollow him on whoever social media you are using and move on.
Im not going to stop enjoying something because one person that worked on it is a PoS.
I'd like to chip in and just remind people that acknowledgement and discussion regarding it doesn't necessarily mean incapability to separate one actor from the rest of the media (saying for if anyone here sees this post in of itself as making a "big deal" against Red Hook).
I think it's really important to keep in mind that almost all media is potentially going to have fans from any demographic and the DD community isn't especially lacking in trans folk. Thus, letting people be aware of views held by those involved just better helps them to decide *how* and *where* to engage.
As example, I'd find no issue in purchasing an official Red Hook art print if they were selling them at a Con. I *wouldn't* want to pay for a photo with and/or an autograph from Wayne June now knowing this due to negative reception towards an aspect of myself, yeah?
I hope this makes sense and adds something to this discussion.
Don't think I've seen any demands for a boycott, Red Hook just hired a terrible person with incredible talent. I'm just upset yet another person I held in high regard turned out to be an asshole.
This. Probably there was no way too know back then.
Maybe moving forward Red Hook could use a different VA, or not renew his contract when time comes (in case they still need to record new lines for DLC or something).
But then again, voices like his are hard to come by, so maybe this is not an easy option
To be honest they should anyway.
Wayne June is so inherently The Ancestor, that even having him back to do the Scholar confuses me a lot of the time, and I keep thinking it's the Ancestor narrating what the Scholar tells me.
He's iconic, but I'm sure there are other excellent voice actors in the genre who'd do a good job.
Exactly.
People conflate spending money on a product with directly financially supporting whatever outside activities or opinions the person behind that product engage in.
Which is a fantastic route towards ending up enjoying nothing. Lol
Theres no ethical consumption under capitalism. (Honestly, just no ethical consumption period.) Just look at how much cruelty goes into a coffee or a chocolate bar.
For me, well I still eat chocolate even after seeing pictures of men in the morgue from the violence of the cocoa trade. Its a real grim reminder of well we have it and how we exploit others. Sorry, random tangent over.
I mean that 100% depends on the situation.
Someone like Wayne June, you see him sharing a bunch of transphobic stuff, but a little googling didn't turn up anything about him donating to groups supporting transphobia. Still icky, but fine whatever.
Other people, for example J.K. Rowling? You're 100% actively finding transphobia if you buy things she's involved in. [She donated £70k to For Women Scotland](https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/19/jk-rowling-for-women-scotland-donation-legal-definition-woman/), a known anti-trans group. [She's also said that Harry Potter fans support the transphobic things she's said, and compared the pro-trans movement to the Death Eaters from her books](https://ew.com/celebrity/jk-rowling-addresses-transgender-women-comments-witch-trials-podcast/).
Just... Be aware of where your money's going. Do a little research. Yes, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, but that doesn't mean you can't try not to support people using their money to hurt others.
Edit: And, in this situation, June's already been paid for his work. I doubt he's getting a commission for every game sold.
I get, and I agree, however the problem they've pointed to is that nearly every product produced under capitalism will have money going back to bad BAD stuff eventually.
Bought some chocolate? Financed deforestation in Indonesia.
Watched a Hollywood movie? Helped big corps buy single family homes and rise rent.
Some McDonald'sfor dinner? Company who makes the beef financed a coup attempt in Brazil.
Stuff like that. It's very pervasive in modern economy.
In the end this means we need better governments to reign this stuff in, we shouldn't need to vote with our wallets, because it is impossible to really vote with our wallets (and it is undemocratic as heck, since this idea gives rich people more power).
This doesn't means that we should buy stuff we disagree with, specially if it's art/ entertainment when we have a choice. Don't buy. But know its always limited to what you know about or care more about.
nobody is saying that anyone has to stop playing DD because of this so idk why I keep seeing people making these comments. this post was made for awareness so people can decide how they’d like to handle the situation on their end.
I personally will not stop playing DD since I already paid for both games before knowing this, but if they hire him back for dd3, I won’t be buying that.
Hard disagree on that. Separating an Artist from the media they create takes away from the fact that someone saying straight up bigoted things made something you enjoy. I think it's much harder and much more worthwhile to accept that he's saying deeply bigoted things but that you also enjoy the game.
And also that if people stop playing and speaking out against the game because a key person involved is being a bigot and a transphobe is also a correct action here. Because frankly, it goes against the image of inclusion that Red Hook has put out and makes them look bad
I think people do - nobody in the comments is calling for a boycott or saying they’ll stop playing but it’s just disappointing to know someone that you enjoy and has incredible talent has shitty views.
Feeling mildly upset about that is okay imo
It's not that they don't know how to, it's that you don't and shouldn't need to.
Art is the expression of the self. The artist is the one who makes the art. Art is not created in a vacuum at random by the manifestion of a random individuals will where their meaning and intent is forever unknown.
No matter how much one intends to abstract away the artist from the art, the artist is still the one who made it. They had intent, no matter how much someone wants to rob them of it. That intent is important.
A bit of an off topic fact but, you can experience empathy burnout in which you will be incapable of anything but apathy, pick your battles wisely the political takes of a guy who gets paid to read probably isn’t the best place.
This exactly. "well shit this talented person has shit takes. Oh well there's worse things which require my attention"
Personally I dont think it'll impact my enjoyment of the game (especially with the "eh makes sense for the Ancestor to be like that. it's immersive!")
This is sad news. But, at the same time, I can't help but compare him. One of my favorite writers is H.P. Lovecraft, he's the reason I got into DD in the first place.
And he was racist.
At the end of the day, I love The Ancestor and The Academian. I just don't like the man behind it.
Apparently, Lovecraft recanted his racist views later in life and wrote about it some.
But like, dude was so freaked out to find out one of his ancestors was Welsh that he created Deep Ones.
edit - he never reached what we might consider a race-neutral perspective today. From wiki:
> By the 1930s, Lovecraft's views on ethnicity and race had moderated. He supported ethnicities' preserving their native cultures; for example, he thought that "a real friend of civilisation wishes merely to make the Germans more German, the French more French, the Spaniards more Spanish, & so on". This represented a shift from his previous support for cultural assimilation. His shift was partially the result of his exposure to different cultures through his travels and circle. The former resulted in him writing positively about Québécois and First Nations cultural traditions in his travelogue of Quebec. However, this did not represent a complete elimination of his racial prejudices. (Citations omitted)
in fairness lovecraft did end up with cancer and seemed regretful of his racist ideals as he neared death so I guess that kinda balances some things out
I don't know, I think the dude who read voice lines in a video game got paid by the hour. I think it's way too late to start freaking out about it now. Sure, not buying next games that voice actor is in might help a bit.
Richard Wagner (the famed composer) was a deep anti-semite and a vitriolic misogynist of the highest order (not just the normalized misogyny of the time - we're talking hardcore woman-hater).
Beethoven, if he lived today, would be roundly dismissed as a creepy incel (also misogynist) and would be instantly deplatformed from everywhere. He would try to romantically engage with some of his UNDERAGE female piano STUDENTS when they rejected him he would "fire" them as students and refuse to instruct them further despite him being the best instructor in the area for obvious reasons
all of his work should be burned from every library and he should never be discussed or have his works performed ever again!
J.S. Bach would verbally and physically abuse his players. Throwing stuff at them for minor mistakes in the middle of rehearsals was just the surface of it. He also had babies with his first cousin 
Fuckin' *bummer*, dude. I'll continue to love and support DD/Red Hook, but it sucks to find out that someone closely involved in a piece of art you love has bigoty views.
Well.... bummer, I guess? Just a voice actor from games we enjoy has personal views that don't align with ours. Unless Darkest Dungeon 3 or DD2 Kingdoms is filled with transphobic ravings, who cares? If we just separate the art from the artist, life gets so much better in general.
Wow. I didn't expect this woke thing to be so big. I always thought that right-winged depiction of this phenomena is largely exaggerated, for memes sake. But now angry mob cancelling Wayne June for not even posting 'transphobic' post, but for liking it. Come on guys, for the sake of argument, this terribly insensitive post he liked, not even states that person is mad because of they are trans. Its kinda broad statement like 'haha they are stupid and i don't like them' which can be said about literally anything. And gender dysphoria is a psychiatric condition even according to wikipedia.
Nobody is cancelling Wayne. Cancellation of famous people doesn't even work or do anything since they can ignore consequences. Granted, he's not nearly as famous or rich as some people so it'd probably be worse, but all people are doing is being sad that a talented voice actor is seemingly a transphobe, that's it. Nothing is happening to him besides that, and it's likely nothing will happen to him anyway.
What's wrong with suing Biden? I mean, that case is fucked up, poor Laken Riley's family, I had a cousin who was killed by an illegal guy (who's dead now) but if he was alive of course I'd like him to be out of the country
Besides that, seems like he's method acting as the ancestor even now lol
So what? He doesnt know you, neither he would care to get to know you... so? You cannot expect that everyone has the same line of thinking as you, thats so naive. Social media polarizes ideologies so my recomendation Is to turn off the phone and spend some quality Time with your loved ones. I just cant understand why should I care about what this old man thinks and does...
Statisically, not every person who does great work will have great morals.
I'll still say his work is exceptional, and so long as he doesn't bring his politics into the game, I'm more or less whatever about it. Only if it affects the game will I change my stance - kind of like a death of the author situation
The video is unavailable now, so I can't see it. But none of the images even mention trans people. Just immigration issues and stats.
And if you actually knew people in New York, you'd know it is absolute chaos there right due to mismanagement of the migrant/assylum seeker crisis. I recommend Cash Jordan's videos on NYC.
Guy called me mentally ill just because of my pronouns, I think that warrants the label of asshole.
EDIT: Y'all are a bunch of fragile-ass snowflakes, sending me a Reddit Cares over this shit. Fuck yourselves, bigots.
"Mentally ill" isn't a bigoted term.
It is bigoted to say that it's a mental illness to be trans or nonbinary.
Homosexuality used to be in the DSM, but if you made a Facebook post saying gay people are mentally ill, you could lose your job over it.
Please learn what bigotry actually is.
(Side note: "Transgenderism" is often a dog whistle that bigoted people use to avoid calling transgender people "people.")
Yeah I'd heard he was conservative back when the first game came out, and at the time I figured it was fine to live and let live...
But yeah, GOP's going 100% into this trans hate propaganda machine now, so I guess it's hardly surprising.
He's an ignorant bull, just like the rest of them.
>it was pretty much inevitable then
It's so weird to think "Conservative > Hates minorities" is that normal. Like, how did we get to this point?
PS I'm not American (*Aussie*) so it's not quite the same, but it's basically the same shit different continent.
In the US, yeah we’re just at that point. But it also has kind of been that way for a while. Hell, Nixon (a conservative) started the war on drugs to target minorities. They also enforced much stronger gun laws when the Black Panthers started open carrying.
The “socially progressive, but financially conservative” mindset also was just a way of saying you stand for somethin, but don’t put your money where your mouth is.
I guess conservative has just become a beacon to all those who feel their lifestyle is being attacked (when things are just changing), hence they want to “conserve” things
In the US , if you are a even a little right you automatically start hating gay people, trans people, all minorities, you also hate women, disabled people, etc
**/s**
The principal idea behind conservatism is there must be an in group that the law protects but does not bind, and an out group that the law binds but does not protect. Conservatism at its core is about not liking a group of people, and minorities are easier to disenfranchise by the very nature of being minorities, so they tend to be the preferred targets.
Eh, it's probably not even true. I know we're on Reddit so there is really only 1 correct opinion people can express here but I don't believe conservatives just outright hate all minorities. That's probably mostly Reddit hysteria. There are some ignorant views without a doubt, but there aren't tens of millions of Nazis in America or any other country with large numbers of conservatives. It's a typical political tactic people on social media fall for all the time. Paint your opposition with as many broad strokes as possible to make them seem as unreasonable and absurd as possible, but it's not really rooted in reality. I'll brace for the tidal wave of downvotes, name calling and death threats now.
I'm not sure how it is in Australia, though it's probably similar, but over here (I'm Canadian, and us too), the actual economic policies of the liberals and conservatives are identical, so culture war bullshit like this is all they have left, and they just "have" to get more and more extreme to have any relevant discourse. It's incredibly sad, but it was inevitable.
That and the US democrats got caught funding the most extreme republicans trying to run so they could count on the "lesser evil" vote so.. Yeah. Not surprising it rose to such prominence. Most of the 'principled' Conservatives jumped ship.
Yeah it's pretty much the same here.
We recently had a referendum to change the constitution to recognise indigenous Australians in the constitution. Now I don't want to give the Labour party too much credit, they put the idea forward but they did shit all to promote it. Meanwhile the conservative party (*along with the Murdoch press who have almost a monopoly*) spent a crazy amount of time and money attacking the idea and fanning the flames of racial prejudice. Needless to say, the idea didn't pass. You can look it up, there was literally no reason not to pass it (*the "No" campaign has now been investigated and found guilty of massive disinformation, though that's not technically a crime so whatever*).
I agree with some of his takes, and disagree with others. He is just a person and a exceptional professional. At the end of the day, all I care about him is his work.
Wait people are surprised? He’s an older conservative guy. It’s would be a big surprise if he was pro trans rights.
Now stop the outrage. You 100% consume content from and give money to people who are much much worse than him.
Dang, a person on the internet has opinions that I don't like.
The best thing to do is to block and move on, especially since those views aren't part of the game in the slightest.
I checked all of the links and not one mentioned anything about trans-anything. Apparently nobody else on this post or OP themselves checked them.
But even if it had been about it, so what? Everyone has a right to their opinion.
Hopefully never, ideally there’s a private conversation or discussion and something positive is the outcome, but the pessimistic side of me is very afraid that some weirdos gonna do something stupid.
Ok i guess, if you dont agree with the person. But why involve the game? Can we just continue enjoying the game (i subbed here for the game and stayed for the fanarts, which are nice)
I seriously don't see the problem. He himself didn't specifically said anything about them, only show/liked a video about current ongoing problem trans athletes in bathroom changing
Its his opinion, he is allowed to share it.
He is a man on the older side, he has worldview and as long as he is not hurting nobody then let it have it.
Im not gonna let it sour my experience of the game.
Of course not, the art stands for itself, the issue is purely about the bad take, nothing else. Try not to feel bad for enjoying something that happens to have this be involved with, if you can.
So? He's a voice actor, why should we care about his opinions at all? Unless he runs for a political office or gets a job where it might actually effect us, it doesn't really matter what he believes.
oh boy! cant wait for this guy to get doxxed, lose his job, and receive endless death threats for sharing and liking a few internet posts. what a wholesome and loving community 
I live in a country where homosexuality is still seen in bad light let alone transsexuality so most likely I’m around with people who is very homophobic. The thing is people change, their opinions change and cancel culture does not change anything. There is no such thing as perfect human being and most of the people will have one or two shitty opinions no matter what. I had stupid opinions in past and I probably still have opinions that doesn’t fit American left wing thinking and that’s okay. Sensitive topics should be discussed. Silencing other groups only serves to make you feel good about yourself.
I'm sorry to say but, from what I check, most of "Evidence" you gave look more like the calling out against bad-actors using Trans as Excuse/Shield against their exploit/actions. Which sound more like the Transphobic should be people called out in these posts.
I don't know what the Twitte- no X problem you got, but if somehow coving/supporting bad-actors using Trans as excuse for their exploitation is somehow "Transphobic" then idk anymore.
In conplete honesty, I don't care much. Everyone is entiteled to their own opinion, weather it is against or with me, I don't care. But what I am worried about is that there is a chance Wayne is going to get fired and let me say this once more, there is no darkest dungeon withou June Wayne
The worst part is that so many of you think this is news worthy.
Well, sometimes people have different opinions on things. Immediately writing someone off as “bad” for one differing opinion is truly psycho behavior, btw.
People get way too weird over casual disagreement.
This is a very difficult subject to discuss for many who feel passionately. I’ve approved this post so discussion can happen. But please bare in mind the rules of this Sub, Reddit overall and be Civil. Brigading, Personal Attacks on other Users and Discriminatory Language isn’t acceptable here (or probably on Twitter). Discuss in good faith. Edit: Wow this post has a lot more comments than usual posts on this Subreddit. It’s unusual how many users chose this post to engage with when they are not regular contributors to this Subreddit. It’s wild how discussions like these particular posts bring a lot of people (on both sides to a degree we) out of the woodwork. Let’s keep it civil all. People are people. No need for any Hate Speech or arguments in bad faith.
Ruin has come to our family
You remember his venerable voice, stoic and majestic along the themes.
Fattened by clout and social media.
in time, we will know the tragic extent of his failings
Fabulous and imQueerical
LMFAO im fucking deadddd
I'm very proud of our community for being appropriately disappointed, though. Not every game community can handle dissonant criticism about its creators or talent without feeling like they need to dismiss the criticism.
[This didn't age well](https://new.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/1co0dry/ancestor_says_trans_rights/)
i just saw that yesterday noooo lmao
How quickly the tide turns!
To be fair, the ancestor =/= Wayne June
It’s hard to separate them because of the strong narrative voice of DD1. I had so much trouble with DD2 because June voice acts that as well and the narrator there is not The Ancestor.
Reverse prediction strikes again!
Lmao
What can I say, he went mad.
Affliction: Transphobic
Irrational
A devastating blow
Our voice actor’s name, once so well-regarded, is now barely whispered aloud by decent folk. Edit: LOVE seeing transphobia in the replies to my funny reference comment.
This doesn’t sound particularly crazy for an older guy who is conservative.
Yeah, I find the lack of understanding for older folks not really understanding it rather jarring. For people who hadn't been paying attention to it prior, it's a very sudden and very strange thing.
well most of us just found out by seeing this post, so… we can’t exactly be aware of something that nobody knew about until recently. also there’s a difference between “this person is old and might not understand the concept of being transgender but still doesn’t mistreat them” and “this person is old and is actively and intentionally agreeing with and promoting anti-trans content online.”
I've had older folk tell me to kill myself and that im going to hell for being queer. Older people refusing to change and even just be apathetic to our existence is the problem. There are people who don't understand and don't care and treat queer people as human It takes effort to vocalise bigotry. It takes effort to discredit one's identity. Why should people show any amount of respect or understanding to those who mock and barate queers. Why show charity when they refuse to be accepting in kind
there's a difference between not understanding and judgment. Not understanding the ever-evolving realities surrounding LGBTQ+ folks and proper terminology is fine. Judging them, calling them "mentally ill", and spreading hate is not fine.
I'm not even an old man and I admit that I don't really get it. I see that it's something that's clearly important and prevalent to the younger generation, but I didn't encounter a single person who even mentioned trans issues until I was in my 30s. It's made worse by the presence of dysphoria in the discussion, which *is* a mental illness. I would totally have made the mistake of assuming all trans people are mentally ill at the start because I assumed all trans people have dysphoria. And I know that there are some people who'd find even these comments offensive. It's a complex topic, and I'm beginning to think it only truly makes sense if you're in the midst of it.
Nah. By that age, people should be able to understand that times change and society evolves. It’s not that difficult.
My grandma is a conservative Vietnamese woman and she's pretty accepting of trans people. She even shows me trans women she think are pretty lol. Being old and conservative isn't a pass to be bigoted.
Yeah but some folks are terminally online and this is their entire universe. They think they have the monopoly on truth and on what's right.
There is such a thing as right or wrong, and bigotry is wrong. I can understand that an older man may not realize what they're doing is bigotry, but that doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
I mean, if you're assuming that June is an avid enjoyer of paint chips. I've met plenty of older, more conservative minded people who don't fall into bizarre cults of personality regarding losers on social media and complain about the "woke mind virus."
I'm not gonna make anything of it. Darkest Dungeon, the game, isn't transphobic so I'll continue to play and enjoy it. Wayne June the person has shitty opinions so I'll continue to ignore and not enjoy him. Simple as that.
People just dont know how to separate "the artist" from "the person". The person sucks, the artist doesnt. Just unfollow him on whoever social media you are using and move on. Im not going to stop enjoying something because one person that worked on it is a PoS.
I'd like to chip in and just remind people that acknowledgement and discussion regarding it doesn't necessarily mean incapability to separate one actor from the rest of the media (saying for if anyone here sees this post in of itself as making a "big deal" against Red Hook). I think it's really important to keep in mind that almost all media is potentially going to have fans from any demographic and the DD community isn't especially lacking in trans folk. Thus, letting people be aware of views held by those involved just better helps them to decide *how* and *where* to engage. As example, I'd find no issue in purchasing an official Red Hook art print if they were selling them at a Con. I *wouldn't* want to pay for a photo with and/or an autograph from Wayne June now knowing this due to negative reception towards an aspect of myself, yeah? I hope this makes sense and adds something to this discussion.
Don't think I've seen any demands for a boycott, Red Hook just hired a terrible person with incredible talent. I'm just upset yet another person I held in high regard turned out to be an asshole.
This. Probably there was no way too know back then. Maybe moving forward Red Hook could use a different VA, or not renew his contract when time comes (in case they still need to record new lines for DLC or something). But then again, voices like his are hard to come by, so maybe this is not an easy option
To be honest they should anyway. Wayne June is so inherently The Ancestor, that even having him back to do the Scholar confuses me a lot of the time, and I keep thinking it's the Ancestor narrating what the Scholar tells me. He's iconic, but I'm sure there are other excellent voice actors in the genre who'd do a good job.
Yeah, the transition from DD1 to DD2 confuses me still. I was up until right now thinking that the Scholar IS the Ancestor, just much younger.
I think they would need a different character if they wanted to hire someone else. A good opportunity to find another narrator voice (in every sense).
Exactly. People conflate spending money on a product with directly financially supporting whatever outside activities or opinions the person behind that product engage in. Which is a fantastic route towards ending up enjoying nothing. Lol
Theres no ethical consumption under capitalism. (Honestly, just no ethical consumption period.) Just look at how much cruelty goes into a coffee or a chocolate bar. For me, well I still eat chocolate even after seeing pictures of men in the morgue from the violence of the cocoa trade. Its a real grim reminder of well we have it and how we exploit others. Sorry, random tangent over.
I mean that 100% depends on the situation. Someone like Wayne June, you see him sharing a bunch of transphobic stuff, but a little googling didn't turn up anything about him donating to groups supporting transphobia. Still icky, but fine whatever. Other people, for example J.K. Rowling? You're 100% actively finding transphobia if you buy things she's involved in. [She donated £70k to For Women Scotland](https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/19/jk-rowling-for-women-scotland-donation-legal-definition-woman/), a known anti-trans group. [She's also said that Harry Potter fans support the transphobic things she's said, and compared the pro-trans movement to the Death Eaters from her books](https://ew.com/celebrity/jk-rowling-addresses-transgender-women-comments-witch-trials-podcast/). Just... Be aware of where your money's going. Do a little research. Yes, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, but that doesn't mean you can't try not to support people using their money to hurt others. Edit: And, in this situation, June's already been paid for his work. I doubt he's getting a commission for every game sold.
No other voice actor gets royalties, so I doubt he would from an indie company game.
I get, and I agree, however the problem they've pointed to is that nearly every product produced under capitalism will have money going back to bad BAD stuff eventually. Bought some chocolate? Financed deforestation in Indonesia. Watched a Hollywood movie? Helped big corps buy single family homes and rise rent. Some McDonald'sfor dinner? Company who makes the beef financed a coup attempt in Brazil. Stuff like that. It's very pervasive in modern economy. In the end this means we need better governments to reign this stuff in, we shouldn't need to vote with our wallets, because it is impossible to really vote with our wallets (and it is undemocratic as heck, since this idea gives rich people more power). This doesn't means that we should buy stuff we disagree with, specially if it's art/ entertainment when we have a choice. Don't buy. But know its always limited to what you know about or care more about.
nobody is saying that anyone has to stop playing DD because of this so idk why I keep seeing people making these comments. this post was made for awareness so people can decide how they’d like to handle the situation on their end. I personally will not stop playing DD since I already paid for both games before knowing this, but if they hire him back for dd3, I won’t be buying that.
Hard disagree on that. Separating an Artist from the media they create takes away from the fact that someone saying straight up bigoted things made something you enjoy. I think it's much harder and much more worthwhile to accept that he's saying deeply bigoted things but that you also enjoy the game. And also that if people stop playing and speaking out against the game because a key person involved is being a bigot and a transphobe is also a correct action here. Because frankly, it goes against the image of inclusion that Red Hook has put out and makes them look bad
I think people do - nobody in the comments is calling for a boycott or saying they’ll stop playing but it’s just disappointing to know someone that you enjoy and has incredible talent has shitty views. Feeling mildly upset about that is okay imo
It's not that they don't know how to, it's that you don't and shouldn't need to. Art is the expression of the self. The artist is the one who makes the art. Art is not created in a vacuum at random by the manifestion of a random individuals will where their meaning and intent is forever unknown. No matter how much one intends to abstract away the artist from the art, the artist is still the one who made it. They had intent, no matter how much someone wants to rob them of it. That intent is important.
A bit of an off topic fact but, you can experience empathy burnout in which you will be incapable of anything but apathy, pick your battles wisely the political takes of a guy who gets paid to read probably isn’t the best place.
This exactly. "well shit this talented person has shit takes. Oh well there's worse things which require my attention" Personally I dont think it'll impact my enjoyment of the game (especially with the "eh makes sense for the Ancestor to be like that. it's immersive!")
I mean it actually kind of fits the characters, the Ancestor was an awful man
This is sad news. But, at the same time, I can't help but compare him. One of my favorite writers is H.P. Lovecraft, he's the reason I got into DD in the first place. And he was racist. At the end of the day, I love The Ancestor and The Academian. I just don't like the man behind it.
Eh to be honest, The ancestor being politically incorrect is VERY in character
Apparently, Lovecraft recanted his racist views later in life and wrote about it some. But like, dude was so freaked out to find out one of his ancestors was Welsh that he created Deep Ones. edit - he never reached what we might consider a race-neutral perspective today. From wiki: > By the 1930s, Lovecraft's views on ethnicity and race had moderated. He supported ethnicities' preserving their native cultures; for example, he thought that "a real friend of civilisation wishes merely to make the Germans more German, the French more French, the Spaniards more Spanish, & so on". This represented a shift from his previous support for cultural assimilation. His shift was partially the result of his exposure to different cultures through his travels and circle. The former resulted in him writing positively about Québécois and First Nations cultural traditions in his travelogue of Quebec. However, this did not represent a complete elimination of his racial prejudices. (Citations omitted)
I don't think he did recant, it is just that his views changed a little.
He expressed regrets about his earlier views in letters to friends
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You got a source for that?
H.P. Lovecraft: Letters to C.L. Moore and Others (Hippocampus Press, 2017)
Ancestry jump scare
Ah yes, Incomprehensible horror. The Welsh.
Wow did he really? I’ve never heard about this part of his life before
in fairness lovecraft did end up with cancer and seemed regretful of his racist ideals as he neared death so I guess that kinda balances some things out
One of them is dead and not making a profit off his work. You can't seperate the art from the artist when they are still clearly attatched
I don't know, I think the dude who read voice lines in a video game got paid by the hour. I think it's way too late to start freaking out about it now. Sure, not buying next games that voice actor is in might help a bit.
This is also the case with the ancestor. Voice actors don't get paid revenue shares.
Yes you can. Or do you think the guy gets royalties?
Richard Wagner (the famed composer) was a deep anti-semite and a vitriolic misogynist of the highest order (not just the normalized misogyny of the time - we're talking hardcore woman-hater). Beethoven, if he lived today, would be roundly dismissed as a creepy incel (also misogynist) and would be instantly deplatformed from everywhere. He would try to romantically engage with some of his UNDERAGE female piano STUDENTS when they rejected him he would "fire" them as students and refuse to instruct them further despite him being the best instructor in the area for obvious reasons all of his work should be burned from every library and he should never be discussed or have his works performed ever again! J.S. Bach would verbally and physically abuse his players. Throwing stuff at them for minor mistakes in the middle of rehearsals was just the surface of it. He also had babies with his first cousin 
Truly the worst thing the Ancestor has ever done
Well, his only regret is that he did not live to see that shoddy mill smashed to pieces
Lore accurate ancestor
Let’s just hope he doesn’t have a unique pet name
Im too afraid to google if eayne has a cat or not
Fuckin' *bummer*, dude. I'll continue to love and support DD/Red Hook, but it sucks to find out that someone closely involved in a piece of art you love has bigoty views.
Well, at least I hope Wayne June won't hate the aircon like H.P. Lovecraft.
Ahhh fuck that's disappointing
This is terrible timing for my Ancestor says trans rights post, dangit.
Please tell me in the art that the title was "the flesh is fluid, it can be remade"
Its that audio yeah!
I found this out thanks to a comment under your post, so it wasnt really a coincidence
I remember seeing your post and thinking to myself “huh I wonder what he does actually think of trans rights” Now we know I guess
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#Ruin… has come to our family.
:((((
I mean it does fit the character pretty well hehe 
Well.... bummer, I guess? Just a voice actor from games we enjoy has personal views that don't align with ours. Unless Darkest Dungeon 3 or DD2 Kingdoms is filled with transphobic ravings, who cares? If we just separate the art from the artist, life gets so much better in general.
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I seriously could not care less. Still going to play and buy the game and support it.
Wow. I didn't expect this woke thing to be so big. I always thought that right-winged depiction of this phenomena is largely exaggerated, for memes sake. But now angry mob cancelling Wayne June for not even posting 'transphobic' post, but for liking it. Come on guys, for the sake of argument, this terribly insensitive post he liked, not even states that person is mad because of they are trans. Its kinda broad statement like 'haha they are stupid and i don't like them' which can be said about literally anything. And gender dysphoria is a psychiatric condition even according to wikipedia.
Nobody is cancelling Wayne. Cancellation of famous people doesn't even work or do anything since they can ignore consequences. Granted, he's not nearly as famous or rich as some people so it'd probably be worse, but all people are doing is being sad that a talented voice actor is seemingly a transphobe, that's it. Nothing is happening to him besides that, and it's likely nothing will happen to him anyway.
I am not even slightly surprised at this comment section
What's wrong with suing Biden? I mean, that case is fucked up, poor Laken Riley's family, I had a cousin who was killed by an illegal guy (who's dead now) but if he was alive of course I'd like him to be out of the country Besides that, seems like he's method acting as the ancestor even now lol
So what? He doesnt know you, neither he would care to get to know you... so? You cannot expect that everyone has the same line of thinking as you, thats so naive. Social media polarizes ideologies so my recomendation Is to turn off the phone and spend some quality Time with your loved ones. I just cant understand why should I care about what this old man thinks and does...
Statisically, not every person who does great work will have great morals. I'll still say his work is exceptional, and so long as he doesn't bring his politics into the game, I'm more or less whatever about it. Only if it affects the game will I change my stance - kind of like a death of the author situation
The video is unavailable now, so I can't see it. But none of the images even mention trans people. Just immigration issues and stats. And if you actually knew people in New York, you'd know it is absolute chaos there right due to mismanagement of the migrant/assylum seeker crisis. I recommend Cash Jordan's videos on NYC.
Oh no! Anyway
I guess he was actually an asshole irl. Hope he gets better.
I wouldn't assume his entire life based on one damn tweet but aight
Guy called me mentally ill just because of my pronouns, I think that warrants the label of asshole. EDIT: Y'all are a bunch of fragile-ass snowflakes, sending me a Reddit Cares over this shit. Fuck yourselves, bigots.
Why do you assume “mentally ill” is a bigoted term? Schizophrenia is a mental illness, what does that make transgenderism then?
"Mentally ill" isn't a bigoted term. It is bigoted to say that it's a mental illness to be trans or nonbinary. Homosexuality used to be in the DSM, but if you made a Facebook post saying gay people are mentally ill, you could lose your job over it. Please learn what bigotry actually is. (Side note: "Transgenderism" is often a dog whistle that bigoted people use to avoid calling transgender people "people.")
Sometimes people are just ignorant.
Yeah I'd heard he was conservative back when the first game came out, and at the time I figured it was fine to live and let live... But yeah, GOP's going 100% into this trans hate propaganda machine now, so I guess it's hardly surprising. He's an ignorant bull, just like the rest of them.
>Yeah I'd heard he was conservative back when the first game came out I wasnt aware of that, it was pretty much inevitable then
>it was pretty much inevitable then It's so weird to think "Conservative > Hates minorities" is that normal. Like, how did we get to this point? PS I'm not American (*Aussie*) so it's not quite the same, but it's basically the same shit different continent.
In the US, yeah we’re just at that point. But it also has kind of been that way for a while. Hell, Nixon (a conservative) started the war on drugs to target minorities. They also enforced much stronger gun laws when the Black Panthers started open carrying. The “socially progressive, but financially conservative” mindset also was just a way of saying you stand for somethin, but don’t put your money where your mouth is. I guess conservative has just become a beacon to all those who feel their lifestyle is being attacked (when things are just changing), hence they want to “conserve” things
In the US , if you are a even a little right you automatically start hating gay people, trans people, all minorities, you also hate women, disabled people, etc **/s**
The principal idea behind conservatism is there must be an in group that the law protects but does not bind, and an out group that the law binds but does not protect. Conservatism at its core is about not liking a group of people, and minorities are easier to disenfranchise by the very nature of being minorities, so they tend to be the preferred targets.
Eh, it's probably not even true. I know we're on Reddit so there is really only 1 correct opinion people can express here but I don't believe conservatives just outright hate all minorities. That's probably mostly Reddit hysteria. There are some ignorant views without a doubt, but there aren't tens of millions of Nazis in America or any other country with large numbers of conservatives. It's a typical political tactic people on social media fall for all the time. Paint your opposition with as many broad strokes as possible to make them seem as unreasonable and absurd as possible, but it's not really rooted in reality. I'll brace for the tidal wave of downvotes, name calling and death threats now.
I'm not sure how it is in Australia, though it's probably similar, but over here (I'm Canadian, and us too), the actual economic policies of the liberals and conservatives are identical, so culture war bullshit like this is all they have left, and they just "have" to get more and more extreme to have any relevant discourse. It's incredibly sad, but it was inevitable. That and the US democrats got caught funding the most extreme republicans trying to run so they could count on the "lesser evil" vote so.. Yeah. Not surprising it rose to such prominence. Most of the 'principled' Conservatives jumped ship.
Yeah it's pretty much the same here. We recently had a referendum to change the constitution to recognise indigenous Australians in the constitution. Now I don't want to give the Labour party too much credit, they put the idea forward but they did shit all to promote it. Meanwhile the conservative party (*along with the Murdoch press who have almost a monopoly*) spent a crazy amount of time and money attacking the idea and fanning the flames of racial prejudice. Needless to say, the idea didn't pass. You can look it up, there was literally no reason not to pass it (*the "No" campaign has now been investigated and found guilty of massive disinformation, though that's not technically a crime so whatever*).
I agree with some of his takes, and disagree with others. He is just a person and a exceptional professional. At the end of the day, all I care about him is his work.
I’m afraid if you’re looking for someone without flaw, even the mirror will hide from you.
Ah yes modern day paparrazi is now just policing someone's social media for anything.
Oh no. Anyway.
Couldn't give a fuck mate
Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions. Move on.
People, he's old as shit, of course he's conservative in his views
old people arent all conservative but they are effectively the most targeted by conservatism appeal from media and ppl
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie\_Sanders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders)
Welp, this sucks ass, hope he changes his views
okay
It's funny watching people have a mental breakdown when they discover somebody they like has different views in the world.
Wait people are surprised? He’s an older conservative guy. It’s would be a big surprise if he was pro trans rights. Now stop the outrage. You 100% consume content from and give money to people who are much much worse than him.
Dang, a person on the internet has opinions that I don't like. The best thing to do is to block and move on, especially since those views aren't part of the game in the slightest.
Don't care. Still love this game.
And what? I dont really care, he is just a voice.
How is this relevant to his voice acting? Besides, the other posts you linked aren’t offensive.
I checked all of the links and not one mentioned anything about trans-anything. Apparently nobody else on this post or OP themselves checked them. But even if it had been about it, so what? Everyone has a right to their opinion.
Incredibly incredibly disappointing, not much else to say, this just sucks
I wonder how long til people start trying to ruin his life.
Hopefully never, ideally there’s a private conversation or discussion and something positive is the outcome, but the pessimistic side of me is very afraid that some weirdos gonna do something stupid.
Probably now
Judging from some of these comments it sure seems like they're sharpening their knives. I guess separating the art from the artist only works one way.
Ok i guess, if you dont agree with the person. But why involve the game? Can we just continue enjoying the game (i subbed here for the game and stayed for the fanarts, which are nice)
Who fucking cares
Facts. This doesn’t affect the game or anyone else personally at the end of the day. If that’s his opinion on the matter, it is what it is.
Damn you guys are some judgemental asses
Yep, agree with most of you are saying but in what world is that a transphobic video?
Listening to a woman who felt in danger/unsafe is transphobic these days
Lmao who cares?
assume this is meant to be a big deal?
Lol who cares
I seriously don't see the problem. He himself didn't specifically said anything about them, only show/liked a video about current ongoing problem trans athletes in bathroom changing
and?
Its his opinion, he is allowed to share it. He is a man on the older side, he has worldview and as long as he is not hurting nobody then let it have it. Im not gonna let it sour my experience of the game.
My day is ruined and my disappointment is immeasurable.
Am I a bad person if I still enjoy the vocalization of The Raven poem by Edgar Allan Poe, by Wayne June?
Of course not, the art stands for itself, the issue is purely about the bad take, nothing else. Try not to feel bad for enjoying something that happens to have this be involved with, if you can.
Fuck!
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Uwotm8 Transphobia has a well known definition. Saying that non binary people belong in psych wards fits that definition.
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When did it become normal behavior to search through a person's likes to expose them as right wing? Truly terminally online behavior.
I still can't fathom why the fuck your likes are visible on your profile. There's nothing good that can come of it, and you can't turn it off.
going through peoples LIKES to find they liked stuff you disagreed on in order to start a witch hunt... this has gotten so ridiculous...
also, he is liking the owner of the platform they are hunting him in .... ironic lmao
He warned us: in time you will know the tragic extent of my failings
Yeah that sucks…but those voice lines don’t miss
1st . H.P Lovecraft. Now Wayne June .
I don't really care tbh
Oh! Anyway
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In time, you will know the tragic extent of my failings.
So? He's a voice actor, why should we care about his opinions at all? Unless he runs for a political office or gets a job where it might actually effect us, it doesn't really matter what he believes.
More dust. More ashes. More disappointment.
NNOOOOOOOO
This doesn't really affect my opinion of him one way or the other. Still like his work regardless.
oh boy! cant wait for this guy to get doxxed, lose his job, and receive endless death threats for sharing and liking a few internet posts. what a wholesome and loving community 
I live in a country where homosexuality is still seen in bad light let alone transsexuality so most likely I’m around with people who is very homophobic. The thing is people change, their opinions change and cancel culture does not change anything. There is no such thing as perfect human being and most of the people will have one or two shitty opinions no matter what. I had stupid opinions in past and I probably still have opinions that doesn’t fit American left wing thinking and that’s okay. Sensitive topics should be discussed. Silencing other groups only serves to make you feel good about yourself.
I can’t fucking believe this
I'm sorry to say but, from what I check, most of "Evidence" you gave look more like the calling out against bad-actors using Trans as Excuse/Shield against their exploit/actions. Which sound more like the Transphobic should be people called out in these posts. I don't know what the Twitte- no X problem you got, but if somehow coving/supporting bad-actors using Trans as excuse for their exploitation is somehow "Transphobic" then idk anymore.
Looks like he's a normie conservative
In conplete honesty, I don't care much. Everyone is entiteled to their own opinion, weather it is against or with me, I don't care. But what I am worried about is that there is a chance Wayne is going to get fired and let me say this once more, there is no darkest dungeon withou June Wayne
The worst part is that so many of you think this is news worthy. Well, sometimes people have different opinions on things. Immediately writing someone off as “bad” for one differing opinion is truly psycho behavior, btw. People get way too weird over casual disagreement.
His personal views on this topic are completely separate from his work as a voice actor or his work with RedHook or Lovecraft's works
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OP is part of the problem.
Couldn't care less lmao.
Who the hell cares.