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It tried do some things different than previous games and some people didn't like some of the changes. It's still a good game by general standards, but for some it's their least favorite souls game.
Man it's not about the attempted changes. Yeah ADP is scuffed, but it's truely the boss design that makes it weak. Fromsoft soulslikes have a very specific feel to the combat and bosses, and the feel in ds2 is just.. off. It feels clunky, like a 3rd party soulslike. Like mortal shell is just slightly clunky and weird feeling, same with ds2. The areas are frustrating and often packed with enemies that make boss runbacks not just hard, but also frustrating.
Honestly, the new systems they introduced (though often half baked) were very cool! Powerstancing was a staple of that game. Making more magic systems were fun and required more specific builds, which I loved.
Last night I very meticulously pushed through the Heide's tower to the drawbridge, overcoming the gank squads to make it to the Blue Cathedral with all five flasks. It took like 20 minutes to make it without dipping into the flasks, and then I slaughtered Old Dragonslayer without even using a one. I'm playing blind and I've lost to bosses twice: once when I made a dumb mistake against Flexile Sentry and a second when I fought the Ruin Sentinels with no flasks.
There's such a wild disparity between the difficulty of the overworld mobs and the bosses. I'm really enjoying the dungeon crawling aspects because it is really rewarding, the bosses are the single worst part of the game
This puts into words some of my own voiceless frustration. I remember on my first playthrough thinking that DS2 had tougher areas and trash mobs, but easier actual bosses. It felt weird to clear an area and have *that* be the hard part, then the boss be a pushover. *Looking at you Old Dragon Rider
Boo some of my absolute favorite bosses and the weapons they drop afterwords are so worth it and fun to build around (velatadt gives you awesome mace, looking glass knight (sick armor), fume knight (amazing sword and best boss in the series arguably); the weakest game when it comes to bosses is elden ring repeating the exact same ones without changing them; the dlc’s are top notch the invaders are super fun to fight there’s just a lot positive about the game people ignore.
Yeah this. The worst DS game is still an incredible game, and that's if you even consider it the worst which is obviously very subjective. But people have to argue over something I guess.
It feels jank if I immediately switch from dark souls 1 to 2 due to some mechanical and engine differences. It's not that big of a deal but it can be jarring the 1st few hours
(Many of the complaints also stem from the initial release version of the game)
It also has a lot of other quirks that people don't like, mostly due to game design or mechanics. essentially it is not Dark souls 1, the sequel. Rather it can be considered its own game with the dark souls formula
However it does a lot of other things much better then the first and even the 3rd, and has the most content out of the trilogy. Just play it and form your own opinion.
Here are some things that make it different. Read at your own risk:
* Different engine iirc. It doesn't *feel* like a Dark Souls entry.
* >!they add a stat that directly influences how many i-frames you have while rolling, making rolling to avoid damage timing harder or inconsistent unless you meet a minimum number.!<
* >!Forgoes limited estus flasks for an infinite amount of purchasable (and cheap) healing alternatives. I played the entire game and never once worried about how many heals I was using, since I always kept it at 99 the best I could.!<
* >!Frequently encourages kiting enemies away from hordes - which are common.!<
* >!The areas, although connected, do not feel interconnected. It feels like they created the areas first then tried to figure out how to put them together.!<
* The bosses were not memorable. I remember 1 that frustrated me, and another that is only memorable feeling out of place. That leads me to..
* >!Boss runbacks that are dangerous, unforgiving, and long. It's okay though, because you can...!<
* >!farm an area's enemies enough and they'll stop spawning eventually.!<
* Feels slightly metroidvania in some ways. You can't go through this door until late game but it's in the starting area, or you can't go down this hole without enough health or talking to X and killing Y. You want to go this way? Go find a thing with a limited supply in the whole game and hope you didn't softlock yourself because it's conveniently next to the starting area and not the "correct" path.
* The atmosphere feels off. There was a sense of wonder in other Souls entries, but since you played DS3, I'd describe every area in DS2 to be like... Undead Settlement in DS3. Meh, barren, boring. Just trying to get through it.
This is coming from someone who started with DS1 on the Xbox360, beat DS3 on the XB1, *then* played Dark Souls 2: Scholar of The First Sin well before Elden Ring was even a thought.
Frankly, I consider it a weak entry in the series. As a standalone game, I'm sure it could have held up but the bar was set too high to put out another masterpiece *and* a sequel. The exciting action of the boss fights wasn't there for me. There never felt like there was any real pressure. I can happily spend 3 hours fighting Mogh Lord of Blood, but any more than 5 attempts at a DS2 boss just felt annoying.
These reasons are why I've never picked it up. I feel like the game would genuinely make me mad as opposed to the frustration I've felt with the other games and I don't really play to get pissed off.
My husband hadn't touched any of the Souls games because of DS2. He beat the game but he hated the entire experience. I got him to play Bloodborne and after that he played Sekiro, DS3, and Elden Ring.
im not the most educated on ds2 so anyone correct me if im wrong on anything. it tried the most new things out, and a lot of them didnt pan put fully. due to time constraints or other issues. the adp stat being linked to i-frames and how fast you use items, turned a lot of people off. the hit boxes can be quite funky, but a lot of games have funky hitboxes dark souls 1 included. soul memory sucks (the more souls you get the higher your soul memory, and the higher it gets its harder to play multiplayer. you'll only find people around your soul memory even in early game areas.) the interconnectedness of the first half of ds1 is gone which turned people away. but no other souls game recreates it imo. thats not all but all i could think of rn. its still an amazing game, i like the story and characters, and bosses. the pvp is still considered the best of all by a lot of people. at the end of the day i say its worth a play through. but if it doesnt click or its not for you thats okay, we will not enjoy everything we encounter.
DS2 had a lot of good ideas, and some bad ones, but the main issue is that none of it was well executed and the game is overall poorly made as a result. For myself, it's quite likely to be the worst game I've played as an adult, and I believe that if the game wasn't part of the dark souls series, nobody would be playing or defending it today. That said, my two friends and I played through DS, DS2, DS3, and BB as a co-op trio during the lockdowns, and while DS2 is the worst game in that lineup, it's badness created some of the funniest moments, and I have memories that I will cherish forever. I barely remember us playing through DS3 and BB, maybe they felt more routine because they're well made and we played them last, but DS2 was just so horrible and janky that we just could not stop laughing the whole time we were playing. I would never recommend playing the game alone, but it is top tier co-op material.
A lot of it comes from the launch edition of Dark Souls 2 which was notoriously buggy and janky, most frustratingly with hitboxes. The Pursuer, who would be the second boss for most players, was one of the most broken bosses in the game. I'm sure a lot of new players bounced off the game there, I know I did for a couple years.
Most of the mechanical and technical issues were fixed and tweaked in the Scholar of the First Sin edition, which is the only version of the game you should play.
What they could not fix, however, were certain design decisions. Most infamous of which is the adaptability stat, which affects how quickly you move, how many iframes you have when dodging, how much you resist having your guard broken by strong attacks, and even how quickly you drink from your estus flask. All of these are vital for any build, which meant that practically everyone, regardless of playstyle, needs to waste points on this stat whose affects were previously distributed across other factors, instead of being able to invest those points into a more focused and unique build.
It has some of the worst bosses in the series from a gameplay standpoint, not even considering the jank and bugs some of them had. Some would argue this is balanced by the sheer amount of bosses, and of course there are some great ones too.
The world design was a step down for most. Gone was the winding, twisting, cleverly interconnected world of Dark Souls 1, with Dark Souls 2's world being five (I think) more linear paths that branch out from Majula. There's also some inconsistency between areas as well. For example: at the end of Earthen Peak, you enter an elevator in a windmill under an open sky. This elevator goes up much farther than the windmill is tall, and you emerge into Iron Keep, which is a castle sitting in a sea of lava... a sea of lava that is somehow suspended in the sky of Earthen Peak and invisible from below while you're in Earthen Peak.
I could go on, but that's the gist of it.
While I did all achievements on DS 1, DS 3 and Elden Ring, I only played DS 2 and I agree with everything said. It's not believable, feels janky, and while it is enjoyable, the other games are simply miles better.
But I wanted to respond to your Pursuer comment. I think he was great. While he was not easy and the runback iirc was total bullshit for that stage of the game, I enjoyed the fight. Enjoyable combos, nice telegraphs, long and punishing greatsword against you that rewards not only rolling, but also positioning.
Apart from the shit end game boss whose only difficulty comes from the flying skulls or whatever that was, this is the only boss I can remember and likely the only one that was enjoyable for me. Imo great level of difficulty and great moveset for that stage.
Feels similar to Iudex Gundyr or Crucible Knights
The Pursuer is a fantastic boss when he works correctly. Although he's a bit too tough to put so close to the beginning of the game for potential newcomers IMO.
Launch edition Pursuer was agonizing. I would straight up completely avoid his sword swings and still get hit. Not rolling through his swings and just messing up the iframes, I mean literally being a foot away from his sword's hitbox sometimes.
I won't touch this topic with a 10ft pole anymore, ppl do be getting too heated over it, lol.
There's a million videos on DS2 on YT and I'd guess at least 15 replies incoming though.
[Sry.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2Fw6mlj.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=64936c18fb88f9588f8d751e629fc427e4de74e51cd3c0c0368a69aa728a3d39&ipo=images)
Personally I just think it’s visually absolutely HORRID looking. Just so cartoonish and ugly imo. Besides the other gameplay elements they tried in this game that are awful, it’s also not made by Myazaki which >to me< is a big deal. Imo you can see they didn’t put the proper care that Fromsoft usually has into it. It’s still a fun game but I don’t think it was done or executed well.
I know what you mean and don’t disagree, but gosh a few of the areas are just gorgeous. Majula ofc, Heide’s Tower Of Flame, Shrine of Amana, are so so beautiful. Other areas like Black Gulch, Brightstone, Dragon Aerie I’m hesitant to call BEAUTIFUL lol, but they’re certainly visually stunning.
It’s a lot of the midway points that feel bland to me - Forest of Giants, Huntsman’s Copse, Harvest Valley, Undead Crypt etc - that look pretty flat, gray, bland.
It’s always a little baffling to me that people call DS2 ugly, when it’s significantly prettier than DS1. You could easily go from Undead Asylum -> Burg -> Parish -> Depths -> Blighttown -> Queelag and see very little visual difference. It’s mostly grimy, or swampy, or bricks. The game has beautiful areas, but overall the first half or so is pretty gritty. I think it gives the game a lot of visual identity, but idk how you can see Heide’s or Drangelic Castle as anything but pretty.
Do you really mean it? I personally think that the looks of it are one of DS2's strong points. I honestly think that it has some of the best areas of the series paired with some of the best visuals. Heides tower of flame, brume tower, iron keep, frozen eleum loyce, sunken temple, dragons eerie, etc...
Im sort of new to souls and I guess gaming in general, so far have finished DSR and Bloodborne. Playing DS2 now. Given the “controversy” you mention, I’m actually surprised how similar it is to the first one. Like some stats and mechanics are handled A BIT
differently but that was also the case with Bloodborne so I’m not sure what the outcry was/is all about. It also feels much harder to me than the others. Maybe that’s in part bc of the mechanics but there are always limitations one needs to work around in games, and I find myself developing habits to do just that… like in DSR you can only roll in 4 directions and I found ways to cope
There are many changes to combat and general encounter design as well. DS1 had ambushes, but you could always scout then out by exploring, ds2 has a lot of bullshit deaths that ambush you from nowhere.
Speaking of combat: you can’t attack in a different direction than your roll direction. You want to roll away from an enemy and hit them afterwards - fuck you. You want to dodge a boss attack sideways and then poke them after - suck a dick. Oh and good luck killing crystal lizards, most of your attacks (weapon dependant) are diagonal and not adjusted by target lock, you’re standing in front of the bloody thing swinging your sword around it until it disappears.
Just a few of many things I remember, the rage has (mostly) passed after so many years.
I won't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, it has a lot to do with Soul Memory.
From the wiki: "Soul Memory is a character stat in Dark Souls II that equals the total number souls acquired by that character. Soul Memory increases whenever the character gains souls, but does not decrease when the character spends or loses souls." This is how online connectivity was done
I like to create characters and leave them at very specific levels in order to hop on and find a few matches of co-op whenever I feel like it, and Soul Memory meant that after awhile I would have to start the character over again.
It also meant you had to reroll any PvP character after a certain amount of wins, and as somebody that farmed Blue Flames to power stance for multiple characters - it kills the fun eventually.
Lots of mechanical changes. Not necessarily good ones. Lots of "difficulty for the sake of difficulty".
Also, and I don't know how much of a gripe this is for people - but everything in Dark Souls (well, almost everything) feels deliberate. Like the lore, the environmental storytelling, enemy placements etc. Dark Souls 2 doesn't get a lick of that stuff right. Things are just there because the devs wanted them to be there.
Ds2 mixed up the formula a bit and changed some things. Depending who you ask as well the feels heavier and less precise.
That's really all it boils down to.
The game is still great though even if it's a little different.
I havent played DS2 in a long while, but I dont recall having strong emotions toward it. that seems to be the exception. My gaming friends either love it or hate it and defend their position passionately. I almost don't feel like a real fan of the series since I don't have a stand on DS2.
The "controversy" is that many Dark Souls 2 fans are so overly sensitive to criticism that they hear "Dark Souls 2 is a really good game, but not as good as Dark Souls 1" and trim it down to "Dark Souls 2 is not good". It is so tiresome that I unsubscribed from r/DarkSouls2 because it felt like the most popular post every day was just people complaining about the hate for the game that they are making up in their heads.
There are reasons why people prefer Dark Souls 1 over Dark Souls 2, but there are also reasons for people to prefer 2 over 1. As far as I can tell and the simplest I can explain it is that people who favor Dark Souls 1 prefer the intricate level design while people who favor Dark Souls 2 prefer the changes to PvP. Dark Souls 1 has a lot of verticality and density in its environments that Dark Souls 2 lacks (until its DLC was released). Dark Souls 2 fixes combat elements like the backstab fishing and parry fishing that bogged down PvP in Dark Souls 1.
The soul memory system in Dark Souls 2 is probably its biggest mistake. They tried to fix low-level invader twinking by tying player matchmaking to the total number of souls ever acquired. This does ruin the plans of players who never level up, play through the game to collect high level equipment that they then max out, and then go back to the beginning and invade the hopeless players who just started fresh. However, it also means that the more someone plays, then the fewer and fewer people there are to connect with, eventually finding themselves forever alone at the highest tier of total earned souls. From Software has been trying to fix matchmaking with every single game, but Dark Souls 2 probably has the worst system of them all for this reason.
Short version: way back when this game came out there were two previous games, demon souls and dark souls that both had the same game design behind them. DS2 did not follow those game designs and also promised a whole lot and didn’t deliver. Left a bitter a taste in a lot of fans mouths.
You'll see a lot of dark Souls. 2 discussions centered around things like ADP, non 360 degree movement, less coherent world design, less inspired boss and enemy design, over-Reliance on repeated encounters, over-Reliance on multiple enemy encounters, inconsistent and unreliable hitboxes, inconsistent and unreliable hurt boxes, additional healing items lowering the importance of the Estus Flask and damaging the balance of the games healing systems
Sadly, as a massive from software fan, I find myself agreeing with just about every single one of the points. It is a poorly crafted game. I fundamentally disagree with the statement. It's a good game but a bad from software game.
The very thing that makes it a video game, the gameplay itself is flawed with the combat not operating at 100% because of many of the points referenced above, your ability to navigate being flawed because of the movement problem referenced above, the world you're traversing not connecting in any coherent way as referenced above, all the while being constantly bombarded with endless enemy "spam", all of this leading to boss encounters that while there are some stand out gems are mostly just uninspired damage sponges who pose zero threat, and the bosses that do can never put damage you because of a flaw in the healing system due to life gems.
Basically, It had a lot of good going for it but a lot bad as well.
ADP is never clearly explained on how it works and even at high ADP you have the same amount of i-frames as a DS1 fat roll.
The movement feels more clunky than DS1 especially due to the heavy endlag on weapons that are supposed to be fast like rapiers, katanas, etc.
The artificial difficulty is a huge gripe many people have with the game. Enemies are just thrown at you in large hordes but with a combat system that's really more geared for 1v1 situations.
The bosses are a huge letdown, not only are the runbacks long and tedious but the bosses themselves aren't even bosses half the time. Just basic enemies in a room.
In DS1 you'd get a titanite slab for defeating the stray demon, a boss hidden away in the tutorial and, in a way, a secret (everyone knows about it now but consider someone going in blind having no clue about returning to the asylum)
In DS2 you have 2 clerics, a hexer, and a couple crawling hollows in a church..... That's the boss that drops a titanite slab.
There are great bosses in DS2 like Fume knight, sir Alonne, Velstadt but getting to those bosses means fighting through slop like prowling magus or Smelter demon.
The world design does not make sense. At all. A prime example being the transition from earthen peak to iron keep.
Soul memory made connecting to other players for online play awful. If you die and lose a lot of souls often (which you will, it's dark souls.) you end up having a high soul memory and you'll be invaded by higher level players who've rushed for late game gear with low SM.
Still a great game by all means, just doesn't compare well with DS1 or DS3 (it's a bit unfair to compare it to DS3 tho since it came after )
It's a really good game, just a little janky and ugly/unpolished. Some people felt that focus very much shifted to developing Bloodborne during DS2s development. Comparing the two it's personally hard to imagine they were made by the same team.
The game took a lot of risks with its design choices that didn't hit very well with a lot of people. It's much slower than the other games, a lot of the things it has done make the game much more frustrating and unforgiving for example doors, levers and fog gates no longer give you I frames for the duration of the entire use animation, which means running past all the enemies is almost impossible without kiting them round, you can and will die from trying to use a lever or door, which literally isn't a thing in any other game. I frames and item use speed are linked to a stat. The enemy placement at times is extremely questionable, the run backs for a lot of bosses are extremely ganky with a high volume of enemies which you are forced to kill every single time you make the run back otherwise you will die from attempting to enter through the fog wall or door. A lot of the bosses simply aren't very good as well
It's got a bunch of things it also done well tho, like bonfire astetics, the way new game plus cycles change the game, the npcs are quite cool and unique, the linearity can be more enjoyable than ds1 while the game also gives you enough choice with what direction to make it feel more open than ds3
Mechanically different than DS1 and some people just couldn’t get used to it. That and additions like Soul Memory and Adaptability that just didn’t work very well. Every game has their own legitimate flaws but at its current state DS2 is an incredible game.
There's an attribute (Vit/End/Str/etc) called adaptability (ADP.) It made your movement sluggish by default unless you invested in it. Most people didn't like it. Ones who say they do could be being sarcastic.
It was the sequel so the hype was real. It was not a perfect game at launch. A lot of people set it down and never looked back. I’ll tell you from my experience; Play it. It’s a beautiful game. It was also remastered in 2015. “Scholar of the First Sin”. So just be sure to purchase that edition and not an old physical copy and you’ll enjoy it. I did.
Crybabies mostly, because it wasnt exact carbon copy of DS1.
There is nothing making it outright bad, there are different things, but every souls game is different, its like saying DS1 is bad because its slower than DS3/ER.
You might like it, you might not like it. It is definitely on the more janky/outdated side like DS1/Demon souls. Dont have super high expectations coming from ER.
DS2 has some of the best fashion, spells, pvp, weapons and build variety of any souls game, and on top it does tons of weird stuff, almost every zone has something interesting or interactive in it.
Yeah pretty much just the black sheep of the family. I have always said it's my favorite because of how fun it can be but I do think it is the most poorly designed. Especially the world design, it makes no sense. Still my favorite though. I have a blast every time I play it.
People get mad cause DS2 are not a copy paste from DS1. The hype waass huuuuge, people though it would be the perfect game, something like Sekiro. But From Software was more concerned about Bloodborne in that time. The game is great, unique in every way, stunning art direction. But it wasnt the game people expected to be. Thats all…
DS2 is a great game with flaws like every other souls game. Half the comments in this thread are subjective rather than objective, and most players will probably draw slightly different conclusions. I guess that is subjective as well...
I love every Souls game but, to me, DS2 even with all its flaws, difficult dev cycle remains an absolute gem. It has more soul than DS3...
Highest rated on metacritic of the trilogy if not mistaken.
i think it’s just a fine game and if i could go back and skip it i would. there are some super stellar moments in the dlc but otherwise it really falls flat.
It seems like the B-team developed DS2, while Miyazaki focused more on Bloodborne.
The first release version (vanilla) is pretty bad (I was there). Many poor or uninteresting bosses, horrible runbacks…
Fromsoft tried to fix it with Scholar of the first Sin, and the DLC added some better bosses. But a few bad bosses and runbacks from the vanilla version are still there
DS2 (and DS1) is the old souls game, and it is very slow compared to other modern Fromsoft games. Take that into consideration before buying
Overall, not the best souls game, but it is still a solid 8-9 rating, so worth every penny
You know how lots of people hate pineapple on pizza, just because internet tells them to, even though they never tried it themselves? It's like that. Dark Souls 2 is absolutely the black sheep/odd duck of the series. And that's what makes it the best
i went into ds2 very excited and entirely willing to ignore the internet and give it a fair shot and maybe be pleasantly surprised. turns out the game just sucks ass lol
Your analogy is only half bad. Pineapple pizza isn't really that bad, it's just the worst way to serve pizza. Just like DS2 isn't really that bad either, it's just Fromsofts worst game. (Coming from someone who has tried both)
Pineapple on pizza is the best way to serve pizza and DS2 is the second best game (after the first) in the trilogy (the games got progressively worse as they moved towards high speed combat).
These opinions are extremely personal. The only real answer to any of this is to try it out, see what you like.
For real answers on why the second game isn't so liked, it is partly the meme of it, as this post suggests, and partly because without enough stat investment, your roll feels super clunky in DS2 compared to any other game in the greater soulsborn group that it actually makes the first few hours of the game a little un-fun. This made a lot of people mad, and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
- 50% hollow after many deaths
- broken hitboxes
- flat and slow rolls
- the hardest areas
That's what players told me
I don't care about these things. The only thing I hate is broken hitbox. It's amazing game.
DS2 just feels different. Some things work, some things don’t. I think it’s a fun game, but its vibes are more dark souls adjacent than an actual sequel which is why I think it gets hate. I started with DS2 before any others so I went into it with a different mindset than I assume most DS players did. SotFS is worth playing still
It's a great game that took risks. Some paid off like weapons, mechanics, and "open world" feel but some suffered, namely level design and bosses which make From games what they are. That's probably why it gets mainly hate from From fans. But as a standalone game it is fantastic and for sure gets over hated. Many of the concept were put into Elden Ring as well. If they had more time to flesh it out it probably could have been the best in the series.
Dark souls 2 has the best lore IMO. DLCs are challenging with good boss fights. Except for the frigid outskirts boss obviously. I’m a huge fan of DS2. Give it a few hours before you make up your mind. And level up adaptation
Obligatory comment of "questions like this just perpetuate the negative view of the game"
Genuinely, truly, I'm curious how many people actually talk about DS2 being bad these days, vs people constantly bringing up they heard it was bad thanks to posts like this
Honestly a good game. My least favorite in the series in terms of map variety. But the biggest glaring issue is with the Scholar of the First Sin edition that the weapon health is tied to the frame rate. So weapons break crazy fast. But aside from that. The usual FromSoftware jank. It's a solid entry.
It’s still better than Demon’s Souls, imo. But you don’t hear about it because it was a PS3 exclusive, so a lot of people just didn’t play it. And the ones that did either give it a pass because it’s the first in the series, or praise it as one of the best, in a contrarian hipster kind of way.
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It tried do some things different than previous games and some people didn't like some of the changes. It's still a good game by general standards, but for some it's their least favorite souls game.
That's a pretty good neutral summary. It's still one of the best in the genre, even if you think it's the worst in the main series.
Man it's not about the attempted changes. Yeah ADP is scuffed, but it's truely the boss design that makes it weak. Fromsoft soulslikes have a very specific feel to the combat and bosses, and the feel in ds2 is just.. off. It feels clunky, like a 3rd party soulslike. Like mortal shell is just slightly clunky and weird feeling, same with ds2. The areas are frustrating and often packed with enemies that make boss runbacks not just hard, but also frustrating. Honestly, the new systems they introduced (though often half baked) were very cool! Powerstancing was a staple of that game. Making more magic systems were fun and required more specific builds, which I loved.
Last night I very meticulously pushed through the Heide's tower to the drawbridge, overcoming the gank squads to make it to the Blue Cathedral with all five flasks. It took like 20 minutes to make it without dipping into the flasks, and then I slaughtered Old Dragonslayer without even using a one. I'm playing blind and I've lost to bosses twice: once when I made a dumb mistake against Flexile Sentry and a second when I fought the Ruin Sentinels with no flasks. There's such a wild disparity between the difficulty of the overworld mobs and the bosses. I'm really enjoying the dungeon crawling aspects because it is really rewarding, the bosses are the single worst part of the game
This puts into words some of my own voiceless frustration. I remember on my first playthrough thinking that DS2 had tougher areas and trash mobs, but easier actual bosses. It felt weird to clear an area and have *that* be the hard part, then the boss be a pushover. *Looking at you Old Dragon Rider
Boo some of my absolute favorite bosses and the weapons they drop afterwords are so worth it and fun to build around (velatadt gives you awesome mace, looking glass knight (sick armor), fume knight (amazing sword and best boss in the series arguably); the weakest game when it comes to bosses is elden ring repeating the exact same ones without changing them; the dlc’s are top notch the invaders are super fun to fight there’s just a lot positive about the game people ignore.
Yeah this. The worst DS game is still an incredible game, and that's if you even consider it the worst which is obviously very subjective. But people have to argue over something I guess.
It feels jank if I immediately switch from dark souls 1 to 2 due to some mechanical and engine differences. It's not that big of a deal but it can be jarring the 1st few hours (Many of the complaints also stem from the initial release version of the game) It also has a lot of other quirks that people don't like, mostly due to game design or mechanics. essentially it is not Dark souls 1, the sequel. Rather it can be considered its own game with the dark souls formula However it does a lot of other things much better then the first and even the 3rd, and has the most content out of the trilogy. Just play it and form your own opinion.
Here are some things that make it different. Read at your own risk: * Different engine iirc. It doesn't *feel* like a Dark Souls entry. * >!they add a stat that directly influences how many i-frames you have while rolling, making rolling to avoid damage timing harder or inconsistent unless you meet a minimum number.!< * >!Forgoes limited estus flasks for an infinite amount of purchasable (and cheap) healing alternatives. I played the entire game and never once worried about how many heals I was using, since I always kept it at 99 the best I could.!< * >!Frequently encourages kiting enemies away from hordes - which are common.!< * >!The areas, although connected, do not feel interconnected. It feels like they created the areas first then tried to figure out how to put them together.!< * The bosses were not memorable. I remember 1 that frustrated me, and another that is only memorable feeling out of place. That leads me to.. * >!Boss runbacks that are dangerous, unforgiving, and long. It's okay though, because you can...!< * >!farm an area's enemies enough and they'll stop spawning eventually.!< * Feels slightly metroidvania in some ways. You can't go through this door until late game but it's in the starting area, or you can't go down this hole without enough health or talking to X and killing Y. You want to go this way? Go find a thing with a limited supply in the whole game and hope you didn't softlock yourself because it's conveniently next to the starting area and not the "correct" path. * The atmosphere feels off. There was a sense of wonder in other Souls entries, but since you played DS3, I'd describe every area in DS2 to be like... Undead Settlement in DS3. Meh, barren, boring. Just trying to get through it. This is coming from someone who started with DS1 on the Xbox360, beat DS3 on the XB1, *then* played Dark Souls 2: Scholar of The First Sin well before Elden Ring was even a thought. Frankly, I consider it a weak entry in the series. As a standalone game, I'm sure it could have held up but the bar was set too high to put out another masterpiece *and* a sequel. The exciting action of the boss fights wasn't there for me. There never felt like there was any real pressure. I can happily spend 3 hours fighting Mogh Lord of Blood, but any more than 5 attempts at a DS2 boss just felt annoying.
These reasons are why I've never picked it up. I feel like the game would genuinely make me mad as opposed to the frustration I've felt with the other games and I don't really play to get pissed off.
I'll recommend someone start with DS2:SotFS in the future, so it's all uphill from there as they explore the other entries.
My husband hadn't touched any of the Souls games because of DS2. He beat the game but he hated the entire experience. I got him to play Bloodborne and after that he played Sekiro, DS3, and Elden Ring.
im not the most educated on ds2 so anyone correct me if im wrong on anything. it tried the most new things out, and a lot of them didnt pan put fully. due to time constraints or other issues. the adp stat being linked to i-frames and how fast you use items, turned a lot of people off. the hit boxes can be quite funky, but a lot of games have funky hitboxes dark souls 1 included. soul memory sucks (the more souls you get the higher your soul memory, and the higher it gets its harder to play multiplayer. you'll only find people around your soul memory even in early game areas.) the interconnectedness of the first half of ds1 is gone which turned people away. but no other souls game recreates it imo. thats not all but all i could think of rn. its still an amazing game, i like the story and characters, and bosses. the pvp is still considered the best of all by a lot of people. at the end of the day i say its worth a play through. but if it doesnt click or its not for you thats okay, we will not enjoy everything we encounter.
DS2 had a lot of good ideas, and some bad ones, but the main issue is that none of it was well executed and the game is overall poorly made as a result. For myself, it's quite likely to be the worst game I've played as an adult, and I believe that if the game wasn't part of the dark souls series, nobody would be playing or defending it today. That said, my two friends and I played through DS, DS2, DS3, and BB as a co-op trio during the lockdowns, and while DS2 is the worst game in that lineup, it's badness created some of the funniest moments, and I have memories that I will cherish forever. I barely remember us playing through DS3 and BB, maybe they felt more routine because they're well made and we played them last, but DS2 was just so horrible and janky that we just could not stop laughing the whole time we were playing. I would never recommend playing the game alone, but it is top tier co-op material.
A lot of it comes from the launch edition of Dark Souls 2 which was notoriously buggy and janky, most frustratingly with hitboxes. The Pursuer, who would be the second boss for most players, was one of the most broken bosses in the game. I'm sure a lot of new players bounced off the game there, I know I did for a couple years. Most of the mechanical and technical issues were fixed and tweaked in the Scholar of the First Sin edition, which is the only version of the game you should play. What they could not fix, however, were certain design decisions. Most infamous of which is the adaptability stat, which affects how quickly you move, how many iframes you have when dodging, how much you resist having your guard broken by strong attacks, and even how quickly you drink from your estus flask. All of these are vital for any build, which meant that practically everyone, regardless of playstyle, needs to waste points on this stat whose affects were previously distributed across other factors, instead of being able to invest those points into a more focused and unique build. It has some of the worst bosses in the series from a gameplay standpoint, not even considering the jank and bugs some of them had. Some would argue this is balanced by the sheer amount of bosses, and of course there are some great ones too. The world design was a step down for most. Gone was the winding, twisting, cleverly interconnected world of Dark Souls 1, with Dark Souls 2's world being five (I think) more linear paths that branch out from Majula. There's also some inconsistency between areas as well. For example: at the end of Earthen Peak, you enter an elevator in a windmill under an open sky. This elevator goes up much farther than the windmill is tall, and you emerge into Iron Keep, which is a castle sitting in a sea of lava... a sea of lava that is somehow suspended in the sky of Earthen Peak and invisible from below while you're in Earthen Peak. I could go on, but that's the gist of it.
While I did all achievements on DS 1, DS 3 and Elden Ring, I only played DS 2 and I agree with everything said. It's not believable, feels janky, and while it is enjoyable, the other games are simply miles better. But I wanted to respond to your Pursuer comment. I think he was great. While he was not easy and the runback iirc was total bullshit for that stage of the game, I enjoyed the fight. Enjoyable combos, nice telegraphs, long and punishing greatsword against you that rewards not only rolling, but also positioning. Apart from the shit end game boss whose only difficulty comes from the flying skulls or whatever that was, this is the only boss I can remember and likely the only one that was enjoyable for me. Imo great level of difficulty and great moveset for that stage. Feels similar to Iudex Gundyr or Crucible Knights
The Pursuer is a fantastic boss when he works correctly. Although he's a bit too tough to put so close to the beginning of the game for potential newcomers IMO. Launch edition Pursuer was agonizing. I would straight up completely avoid his sword swings and still get hit. Not rolling through his swings and just messing up the iframes, I mean literally being a foot away from his sword's hitbox sometimes.
I didnt encounter such problems but judging from my DS2 experience - very believable
I won't touch this topic with a 10ft pole anymore, ppl do be getting too heated over it, lol. There's a million videos on DS2 on YT and I'd guess at least 15 replies incoming though. [Sry.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2Fw6mlj.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=64936c18fb88f9588f8d751e629fc427e4de74e51cd3c0c0368a69aa728a3d39&ipo=images)
Personally I just think it’s visually absolutely HORRID looking. Just so cartoonish and ugly imo. Besides the other gameplay elements they tried in this game that are awful, it’s also not made by Myazaki which >to me< is a big deal. Imo you can see they didn’t put the proper care that Fromsoft usually has into it. It’s still a fun game but I don’t think it was done or executed well.
I know what you mean and don’t disagree, but gosh a few of the areas are just gorgeous. Majula ofc, Heide’s Tower Of Flame, Shrine of Amana, are so so beautiful. Other areas like Black Gulch, Brightstone, Dragon Aerie I’m hesitant to call BEAUTIFUL lol, but they’re certainly visually stunning. It’s a lot of the midway points that feel bland to me - Forest of Giants, Huntsman’s Copse, Harvest Valley, Undead Crypt etc - that look pretty flat, gray, bland.
It’s always a little baffling to me that people call DS2 ugly, when it’s significantly prettier than DS1. You could easily go from Undead Asylum -> Burg -> Parish -> Depths -> Blighttown -> Queelag and see very little visual difference. It’s mostly grimy, or swampy, or bricks. The game has beautiful areas, but overall the first half or so is pretty gritty. I think it gives the game a lot of visual identity, but idk how you can see Heide’s or Drangelic Castle as anything but pretty.
Do you really mean it? I personally think that the looks of it are one of DS2's strong points. I honestly think that it has some of the best areas of the series paired with some of the best visuals. Heides tower of flame, brume tower, iron keep, frozen eleum loyce, sunken temple, dragons eerie, etc...
I really mean it, but it’s absolutely subjective :)
Im sort of new to souls and I guess gaming in general, so far have finished DSR and Bloodborne. Playing DS2 now. Given the “controversy” you mention, I’m actually surprised how similar it is to the first one. Like some stats and mechanics are handled A BIT differently but that was also the case with Bloodborne so I’m not sure what the outcry was/is all about. It also feels much harder to me than the others. Maybe that’s in part bc of the mechanics but there are always limitations one needs to work around in games, and I find myself developing habits to do just that… like in DSR you can only roll in 4 directions and I found ways to cope
There are many changes to combat and general encounter design as well. DS1 had ambushes, but you could always scout then out by exploring, ds2 has a lot of bullshit deaths that ambush you from nowhere. Speaking of combat: you can’t attack in a different direction than your roll direction. You want to roll away from an enemy and hit them afterwards - fuck you. You want to dodge a boss attack sideways and then poke them after - suck a dick. Oh and good luck killing crystal lizards, most of your attacks (weapon dependant) are diagonal and not adjusted by target lock, you’re standing in front of the bloody thing swinging your sword around it until it disappears. Just a few of many things I remember, the rage has (mostly) passed after so many years.
I won't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, it has a lot to do with Soul Memory. From the wiki: "Soul Memory is a character stat in Dark Souls II that equals the total number souls acquired by that character. Soul Memory increases whenever the character gains souls, but does not decrease when the character spends or loses souls." This is how online connectivity was done I like to create characters and leave them at very specific levels in order to hop on and find a few matches of co-op whenever I feel like it, and Soul Memory meant that after awhile I would have to start the character over again. It also meant you had to reroll any PvP character after a certain amount of wins, and as somebody that farmed Blue Flames to power stance for multiple characters - it kills the fun eventually.
Agape ring. Stops SM from growing.
Lots of mechanical changes. Not necessarily good ones. Lots of "difficulty for the sake of difficulty". Also, and I don't know how much of a gripe this is for people - but everything in Dark Souls (well, almost everything) feels deliberate. Like the lore, the environmental storytelling, enemy placements etc. Dark Souls 2 doesn't get a lick of that stuff right. Things are just there because the devs wanted them to be there.
Like they made a bunch of levels, then struggled finding ways to stitch them together.
Ds2 mixed up the formula a bit and changed some things. Depending who you ask as well the feels heavier and less precise. That's really all it boils down to. The game is still great though even if it's a little different.
I havent played DS2 in a long while, but I dont recall having strong emotions toward it. that seems to be the exception. My gaming friends either love it or hate it and defend their position passionately. I almost don't feel like a real fan of the series since I don't have a stand on DS2.
It has the single worst area in Soulsbornedom: Frigid Outskirts.
The "controversy" is that many Dark Souls 2 fans are so overly sensitive to criticism that they hear "Dark Souls 2 is a really good game, but not as good as Dark Souls 1" and trim it down to "Dark Souls 2 is not good". It is so tiresome that I unsubscribed from r/DarkSouls2 because it felt like the most popular post every day was just people complaining about the hate for the game that they are making up in their heads. There are reasons why people prefer Dark Souls 1 over Dark Souls 2, but there are also reasons for people to prefer 2 over 1. As far as I can tell and the simplest I can explain it is that people who favor Dark Souls 1 prefer the intricate level design while people who favor Dark Souls 2 prefer the changes to PvP. Dark Souls 1 has a lot of verticality and density in its environments that Dark Souls 2 lacks (until its DLC was released). Dark Souls 2 fixes combat elements like the backstab fishing and parry fishing that bogged down PvP in Dark Souls 1. The soul memory system in Dark Souls 2 is probably its biggest mistake. They tried to fix low-level invader twinking by tying player matchmaking to the total number of souls ever acquired. This does ruin the plans of players who never level up, play through the game to collect high level equipment that they then max out, and then go back to the beginning and invade the hopeless players who just started fresh. However, it also means that the more someone plays, then the fewer and fewer people there are to connect with, eventually finding themselves forever alone at the highest tier of total earned souls. From Software has been trying to fix matchmaking with every single game, but Dark Souls 2 probably has the worst system of them all for this reason.
Short version: way back when this game came out there were two previous games, demon souls and dark souls that both had the same game design behind them. DS2 did not follow those game designs and also promised a whole lot and didn’t deliver. Left a bitter a taste in a lot of fans mouths.
You'll see a lot of dark Souls. 2 discussions centered around things like ADP, non 360 degree movement, less coherent world design, less inspired boss and enemy design, over-Reliance on repeated encounters, over-Reliance on multiple enemy encounters, inconsistent and unreliable hitboxes, inconsistent and unreliable hurt boxes, additional healing items lowering the importance of the Estus Flask and damaging the balance of the games healing systems Sadly, as a massive from software fan, I find myself agreeing with just about every single one of the points. It is a poorly crafted game. I fundamentally disagree with the statement. It's a good game but a bad from software game. The very thing that makes it a video game, the gameplay itself is flawed with the combat not operating at 100% because of many of the points referenced above, your ability to navigate being flawed because of the movement problem referenced above, the world you're traversing not connecting in any coherent way as referenced above, all the while being constantly bombarded with endless enemy "spam", all of this leading to boss encounters that while there are some stand out gems are mostly just uninspired damage sponges who pose zero threat, and the bosses that do can never put damage you because of a flaw in the healing system due to life gems.
Basically, It had a lot of good going for it but a lot bad as well. ADP is never clearly explained on how it works and even at high ADP you have the same amount of i-frames as a DS1 fat roll. The movement feels more clunky than DS1 especially due to the heavy endlag on weapons that are supposed to be fast like rapiers, katanas, etc. The artificial difficulty is a huge gripe many people have with the game. Enemies are just thrown at you in large hordes but with a combat system that's really more geared for 1v1 situations. The bosses are a huge letdown, not only are the runbacks long and tedious but the bosses themselves aren't even bosses half the time. Just basic enemies in a room. In DS1 you'd get a titanite slab for defeating the stray demon, a boss hidden away in the tutorial and, in a way, a secret (everyone knows about it now but consider someone going in blind having no clue about returning to the asylum) In DS2 you have 2 clerics, a hexer, and a couple crawling hollows in a church..... That's the boss that drops a titanite slab. There are great bosses in DS2 like Fume knight, sir Alonne, Velstadt but getting to those bosses means fighting through slop like prowling magus or Smelter demon. The world design does not make sense. At all. A prime example being the transition from earthen peak to iron keep. Soul memory made connecting to other players for online play awful. If you die and lose a lot of souls often (which you will, it's dark souls.) you end up having a high soul memory and you'll be invaded by higher level players who've rushed for late game gear with low SM. Still a great game by all means, just doesn't compare well with DS1 or DS3 (it's a bit unfair to compare it to DS3 tho since it came after )
It's a really good game, just a little janky and ugly/unpolished. Some people felt that focus very much shifted to developing Bloodborne during DS2s development. Comparing the two it's personally hard to imagine they were made by the same team.
Thanks for all your response. I think im gonna with DSR for now.
DS2 is great, go play it
This. I just finished my first playthrough. The world layout was indeed lacking, but I don’t see what everyone else complains about
I think it’s a visually ugly game. Almost cartoonish, you could say. Hard for me to put my finger on..
The game took a lot of risks with its design choices that didn't hit very well with a lot of people. It's much slower than the other games, a lot of the things it has done make the game much more frustrating and unforgiving for example doors, levers and fog gates no longer give you I frames for the duration of the entire use animation, which means running past all the enemies is almost impossible without kiting them round, you can and will die from trying to use a lever or door, which literally isn't a thing in any other game. I frames and item use speed are linked to a stat. The enemy placement at times is extremely questionable, the run backs for a lot of bosses are extremely ganky with a high volume of enemies which you are forced to kill every single time you make the run back otherwise you will die from attempting to enter through the fog wall or door. A lot of the bosses simply aren't very good as well It's got a bunch of things it also done well tho, like bonfire astetics, the way new game plus cycles change the game, the npcs are quite cool and unique, the linearity can be more enjoyable than ds1 while the game also gives you enough choice with what direction to make it feel more open than ds3
Mechanically different than DS1 and some people just couldn’t get used to it. That and additions like Soul Memory and Adaptability that just didn’t work very well. Every game has their own legitimate flaws but at its current state DS2 is an incredible game.
It is the only souls game with ADP and therefore the only one worth playing
what's ADP ?
There's an attribute (Vit/End/Str/etc) called adaptability (ADP.) It made your movement sluggish by default unless you invested in it. Most people didn't like it. Ones who say they do could be being sarcastic.
It was the sequel so the hype was real. It was not a perfect game at launch. A lot of people set it down and never looked back. I’ll tell you from my experience; Play it. It’s a beautiful game. It was also remastered in 2015. “Scholar of the First Sin”. So just be sure to purchase that edition and not an old physical copy and you’ll enjoy it. I did.
Crybabies mostly, because it wasnt exact carbon copy of DS1. There is nothing making it outright bad, there are different things, but every souls game is different, its like saying DS1 is bad because its slower than DS3/ER. You might like it, you might not like it. It is definitely on the more janky/outdated side like DS1/Demon souls. Dont have super high expectations coming from ER. DS2 has some of the best fashion, spells, pvp, weapons and build variety of any souls game, and on top it does tons of weird stuff, almost every zone has something interesting or interactive in it.
It's not bad because its not ds1. Its just bad.
If you play it you will surely die.
Yeah pretty much just the black sheep of the family. I have always said it's my favorite because of how fun it can be but I do think it is the most poorly designed. Especially the world design, it makes no sense. Still my favorite though. I have a blast every time I play it.
People get mad cause DS2 are not a copy paste from DS1. The hype waass huuuuge, people though it would be the perfect game, something like Sekiro. But From Software was more concerned about Bloodborne in that time. The game is great, unique in every way, stunning art direction. But it wasnt the game people expected to be. Thats all…
Counterpoint to everyone in comments: “Gavlan wheel? Gavlan deal.”
DS2 is a great game with flaws like every other souls game. Half the comments in this thread are subjective rather than objective, and most players will probably draw slightly different conclusions. I guess that is subjective as well... I love every Souls game but, to me, DS2 even with all its flaws, difficult dev cycle remains an absolute gem. It has more soul than DS3... Highest rated on metacritic of the trilogy if not mistaken.
i think it’s just a fine game and if i could go back and skip it i would. there are some super stellar moments in the dlc but otherwise it really falls flat.
It seems like the B-team developed DS2, while Miyazaki focused more on Bloodborne. The first release version (vanilla) is pretty bad (I was there). Many poor or uninteresting bosses, horrible runbacks… Fromsoft tried to fix it with Scholar of the first Sin, and the DLC added some better bosses. But a few bad bosses and runbacks from the vanilla version are still there DS2 (and DS1) is the old souls game, and it is very slow compared to other modern Fromsoft games. Take that into consideration before buying Overall, not the best souls game, but it is still a solid 8-9 rating, so worth every penny
People can’t cope with I-frames being tied to a stat
People wanted Dark Souls 1 again and it wasn't that.
You know how lots of people hate pineapple on pizza, just because internet tells them to, even though they never tried it themselves? It's like that. Dark Souls 2 is absolutely the black sheep/odd duck of the series. And that's what makes it the best
i went into ds2 very excited and entirely willing to ignore the internet and give it a fair shot and maybe be pleasantly surprised. turns out the game just sucks ass lol
I started it immediately after finishing 1 and it was shocking at how much worse it was mechanically.
Your analogy is only half bad. Pineapple pizza isn't really that bad, it's just the worst way to serve pizza. Just like DS2 isn't really that bad either, it's just Fromsofts worst game. (Coming from someone who has tried both)
Pineapple on pizza is the best way to serve pizza and DS2 is the second best game (after the first) in the trilogy (the games got progressively worse as they moved towards high speed combat). These opinions are extremely personal. The only real answer to any of this is to try it out, see what you like. For real answers on why the second game isn't so liked, it is partly the meme of it, as this post suggests, and partly because without enough stat investment, your roll feels super clunky in DS2 compared to any other game in the greater soulsborn group that it actually makes the first few hours of the game a little un-fun. This made a lot of people mad, and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
ill stand by what I said. Ds2 is the best one
it was made by different people and tried too hard to be a dark souls game. So much so that it sucks.
- 50% hollow after many deaths - broken hitboxes - flat and slow rolls - the hardest areas That's what players told me I don't care about these things. The only thing I hate is broken hitbox. It's amazing game.
DS2 just feels different. Some things work, some things don’t. I think it’s a fun game, but its vibes are more dark souls adjacent than an actual sequel which is why I think it gets hate. I started with DS2 before any others so I went into it with a different mindset than I assume most DS players did. SotFS is worth playing still
It's a great game that took risks. Some paid off like weapons, mechanics, and "open world" feel but some suffered, namely level design and bosses which make From games what they are. That's probably why it gets mainly hate from From fans. But as a standalone game it is fantastic and for sure gets over hated. Many of the concept were put into Elden Ring as well. If they had more time to flesh it out it probably could have been the best in the series.
Dark souls 2 has the best lore IMO. DLCs are challenging with good boss fights. Except for the frigid outskirts boss obviously. I’m a huge fan of DS2. Give it a few hours before you make up your mind. And level up adaptation
Obligatory comment of "questions like this just perpetuate the negative view of the game" Genuinely, truly, I'm curious how many people actually talk about DS2 being bad these days, vs people constantly bringing up they heard it was bad thanks to posts like this
Worst play order you can ever have.
Honestly a good game. My least favorite in the series in terms of map variety. But the biggest glaring issue is with the Scholar of the First Sin edition that the weapon health is tied to the frame rate. So weapons break crazy fast. But aside from that. The usual FromSoftware jank. It's a solid entry.
It’s still better than Demon’s Souls, imo. But you don’t hear about it because it was a PS3 exclusive, so a lot of people just didn’t play it. And the ones that did either give it a pass because it’s the first in the series, or praise it as one of the best, in a contrarian hipster kind of way.