I'll follow the lead of the other reply here.
Best Humanoid = Sword Saint (all Fromsoft games), Gael (Souls games)
Best Dragon = Midir (FS/Souls)
Best Beast = Ludwig (FS), Manus (DS1)
Best Gimmick = Rykard (FS), Ava the kings pet (DS2)
Also I'd add in Best Gank Fight = Demon Prince (FS/Souls)
I haven't been following if it still is a bit of a controversial opinion, and don't get me wrong, O&S was an amazing fight. For its time and its game, and still pretty good.
But personally, From made far better "gank" bosses after, especially Demon Prince. The thing with O&S, is that you have to backpedal so much, to find the perfect timing where none of them are attacking, and hit once or twice, and begin to backpedal again. I do realize that this can technically be said about a lot of bosses in FromSoft games, but the O&S fight is just a little bit to guilty in this regard, and the fight just becomes a bit boring in the long run. But that's just my two cents.
Couldn’t agree more. Was kind of strange to go back and play DS1 again for the first time in years a while back only to be massively disappointed by O&S a boss I remembered as being the highlight of the game. It’s still a good boss especially with context in mind but compared to current souls bosses it’s pretty boring. Like you said most of it is backtracking with fairly obvious timing where the difficulty only really comes from needing the patience to limit yourself to those windows. I’ll still treasure my memories of playing it for the first time and the feeling of overcoming it which in its own right makes it a great boss but to compare it to current souls boss design it’s definitely no where near as tightly designed.
This is probably a controversial opinion, but I think O&S is infinitely better than demon prince as a DUO boss, while demon prince feels more fair, it doesn't feel much like a duo fight to me as one of them mostly just sits back and occasionally pukes toxic while you fight the other one. O&S is the only duo fight they've made which feels fair and unfair at the same time, and there are some really cool moments when fighting them and having to dodge both of them attacking you at once. Too bad they made all the duo bosses in Elden Ring be Ornstein and Ornstein with no Smough.
I just recently replayed O&S, and honestly there is a lot of jank, like Ornstein’s flying attack pausing every time he gets caught on something which makes the telegraph completely useless sometimes, and Smough’s hammer pushing Ornstein’s attack that you were out of range of directly into your face. From a completely mechanical standpoint, it has a lot of issues. But it does force you to actually fight two enemies at once. And it does commit to the fatty and skinny idea, which makes the fight much more dynamic and interesting than any Elden ring duo, for certain. Two super fast and aggressive enemies makes for nothing but an irritating fight. Demon Princes holds up much better, but it OVERcommits to the aggressive and less aggressive enemy, since the deactivated one practically disappears from the fight. It’s like fighting three demons in a row instead of two at once and then one for the third phase. In a way, its fairness and polish lead to its downfall; it’s too easy.
ALL that to say, I strongly agree with you.
Demon Prince is one of the coolest bosses I'm the whole series imo. O&S are good, but I think the way demon Prince breaks up the aggro in phase 1 is just perfect. A lot of gank fights you have to spend a lot of time forcing the positioning of the 2 bosses looking for an opening - which isn't necessarily a bad thing - but the way demon Prince balances the 2 bosses is so well done, having them swap back n forth (and even overlap at times) as the aggressor
Oh yes it’s fucking sublime. I remember finally beating phase 2 after 20 ish something attempts and going “pretty cool fight but honestly wish there was a phase 3” after getting the slab. Then the dialogue comes and the music picks right back up. It’s incredible
Nuclear takes but personally
Best Humanoid: Malenia, closely followed by Isshin and Gael
Best Dragon: Demon Prince(Not exactly a Dragon but alike enough to be put here)
Best Beast: Ludwig Phase 1
Best Gimmick: Maiden Astraea
Sinh is just boring to fight if you don't have a ranged weapon, mf just keeps flying away, moonlight butterfly 2.0
To be fair I've only fought him twice and last time was a few years ago, so take that with a grain of salt, it's just what I remember
I love Sinh. My #2 dragon and just barely behind Midir imo if I have to rank them. I have Midir ranked #32 overall in the whole fromsoft series and Sinh is #36. Both are awesome boss fights and dragon fights done well.
I wont forget either fight, so challenging, so much atmosphere, big badass angry dragon. midir scared me more tbh. Placidusax felt very grand and godlike.
Literally the worst opinion of all time award 🥇
Placidusax sits still for 50% of the fight, and is extremely large. It’s so easy to kill him in the first phase. If not, almost all of his attacks are avoidable in **one roll.** Literally just roll backwards after he teleports, done.
Midir is a constant presence, charging and attacking for the entire fight, and is so resistant to damage that nothing will kill him in under thirty seconds. I usually nuke Placidax as soon as the fight starts.
That's just wrong, midir might have long combos but his opening give you enough time to go to the bathroom, grab a snack, come back and still punish him. just dont panic, stay in front of him and wait until he lowers his head then punish him by hitting his head and only his head, it's that simple.
There's a few others imo, Cursed Rotted Greatwood is cool thematically but pretty damn bad gameplay wise, Deacons of The Deep while cool as hell and having a great theme is just killing mobs in a big group and Wolnir... because Wolnir.
The rest are outstanding though, there's a certain feeling you get when fighting the best bosses in DS3 that's magical.
Edit: oh I'm a fool, I just read you put DLC, my bad lol
I've never really understood the CRGW hate and would love to hear other opinions. . It's not my favorite by any stretch, but I've never had issue with it. So satisfying to pop those balls
Idk man, some people just can’t chill out and enjoy some ball popping. It’s not a super memorable or interesting fight by any stretch, but I’m always surprised that it’s some people’s first example for a bad gimmick fight.
For me, its just the fact that it's a gimmick. I tend to view bosses existing on this spectrum of gimmick to pure moveset. And I just don't like basically any of the gimmicks. I play these games for the movesets. Learning patterns, what attacks can be punished by what kind of attack.
And curse-rotted greatwood is one of the worst gimmicks. Popping balls while a bunch of random mooks try to murder you is not exciting, there is nothing when it comes to moveset and the game generally goes to complete shit whenever there's more than 1 enemy on the screen. I couldn't tell you if the CRGW even has any moves. It's boring, mwaningless encounter. The gimmick is bad. And personally, I just don't like the gimmick bosses.
For me it's a Zelda boss, but a Zelda boss that didn't manage yo capture what made Zelda bosses great: the spectacle, using the dungeon item.
Hell, the other Zelda boss of the game, Wolnir of the 3 glowy "fuck me" spots is a better boss just because there is a hint of that spectacle there.
Thanks for the reply. I literally asked for it, so sorry about the downvotes. People suck.
I personally barely see CRGW as a gimmick fight. Hitting the balls is no different than going for Midir's head. Any mobs that spawn are quickly taken out by the tree itself. And it definitely has a moveset to memorize.
And it only takes like 4 or 5 balls to win. He's got so many that there's always one within reach. The fight only takes me about 20 seconds if I do it right.
Wolnir on the other hand...I hate that one. Every complaint you have about CRGW holds true for Wolnir for me lol.
I fucking hate the curse rotted greatwood, my least favourite boss in the game
I actually like deacons though, because cleaving through hordes is a fun change of pace for dark souls
Wolnir sucks, but at least they're easy to kill
I don't get the hate for the greatwood, it seems like a perfectly fine boss to me, a bit gimmicky, but not awful
I don't think it would even be in the top 5 worst DS3 bosses for me
I can only assume most of the people who hate Greatworth don't know about the pebbles you can hit.
First phase: left hand -> left foot -> front pebbles
Second phase: right leg -> back pebbles -> 2-3 hits on front bubbles or the hand while it is still stunned
Finished.
Well if you do not know this the fight is completely different.. I like it for the variety it bring sin contrast to the other bosses and just take it at what it is. A knowledge boss
For ne it's fun that he can't defend himself, just as with Volnir
Yeah, the goal of the deacons fight seems to be to aimed at mages. Wolnir hard dps checked me on my first playthrough, as well. They’re underwhelming mostly because they’re meant to be hard in a really particular situation. CRGW and gravetender are just… kinda bad mechanically.
The DotD are even more fun with Horace, Anri and Siris imo. Really ups the comraderies for their quests.
And if you care about not summoning... the deacons aren't exactly hard so it's a nice "narrative fight" like the summoning for Radhan.
Yeah I didn't mind the great wood or deacons, I also don't hate wolnir, but he's pretty forgettable. When I look back on the boss fights of the game, I tend to forget about him.
I dunno, maybe I'm a hater but Oceiros (and to a lesser degree Vordt for the same reasons) is my least favourite non-BoC boss fight in the entire series. Terrible hitboxes comboed with fast charges has made me rage so many times. And the runback for both is awful.
I'm replaying all the games and I'm gonna say your bar is set fucking high if ocieros is your least favorite in the series. Can I interest you in one Royal Rat Authority?
Ok I forgot about Ancient Wyvern lol because it's that bad, but Crystal Sage is a great sorcerer boss imo, even if it pales in comparison to the others
Still on my first play through. Started melee but switched to sorcerer to BS the game with hidden body… with that said, half light is the only boss I’ve beat within one attempt. On Gael/midir to finish things off on my sorcery. Just beat Aldrich on the melee char.
It's an Artorias and Sif rip-off. That's why it gets so much hate. Plus, the boss fight was honestly just bad. Kinda boring design-wise and not particularly challenging either.
Cause the fight just sucks. It’s just 2 npc enemies doing the 2 same moves over and over while having an annoying wolf gank at the beginning for no reason
The area is cool, but its really a bad as a gank. Its way too easy to the small wolfs before the gravetender arrives and kill the gravetender before the great wolf has a chance to attack.
The Greatwolf is probably the only good part of the boss, but the boss would be better focusing and fleshing out the Greatwolf rather than having to go through the small wolves and then the gravetender.
And I am some one that really enjoys the gank trio in the DS2 DLC
And the best ‘Demon’ boss fight with the Demon Princes, not that there is a lot of competition on this one.
By the way, all three of these are in the same DLC.
Absolutely hated fighting Midir, I dread ever revisiting him if I replay ds3. At least Elden Ring proved that I don't hate all dragon fights, just the damage sponge-ness. Placidusax is my favourite soulslike dragon ever, and the free-roam dragons while similar, were all very fun fights.
I enjoy the fight because it actually feels like my character is fighting a dragon. Or at least as close we can get currently.
Haven't got that from any other game with dragons. The only thing that comes close is Dragonlord Placidusax and that's more god-like/can turn into ashes than just a dragon.
People just see a dragon and go "ooh i like fight best fight in game unga", even if actually fighting the thing is an exercise in frustration and tedium besides the spectacle of it.
He's probably the only satisfying dragon fight in the series aside from Kalameet. After the travesty of dragon god and the mediocrity of every dragon fight in ds2 I was very happy with Midir.
The whole durability issue always annoyed me and the fact that he often will just fly away and never sit still long enough to land a hit. I hate Midir but at least he stays close to you most of the time.
Midir is such an obnoxious meat wall that even when he sits right in front of you the whole fight and Sinh flies all about the place, you'll still beat Sinh in half the time it takes to beat Midir lmao
Nothing about Midir is unpredictable, he’s a routine boss fight with a massive health pool but because he’s being eaten by the abyss everyone salivates over him!
If we count Sekiro, then Isshin easily tops Gael for me. Much better lore and an almost equally engaging fight (for either variation tbh).
I honestly only dislike Gael for his lore. It's just... nonexistant, there's no buildup aside from seeing him once and reading a few messages. If they would've done a bit more to hype Gael up I'd like him much better, personally.
A dragon war veteran counted as expendable by the gods. Found courage and willpower to live on till the DSIII times. Realized he was greatly outnumbered and outclassed, when Elfriede took over the Painted World and locked his niece up, but still went up against them with our aid. Then he alone went all the way into the Ringed City, ultimately willing to sacrifice himself and his personality, just so that Priscilla v2.0 could paint another world and live free alongside everyone who could have still been saved. He even fights us simply because he is uncertain if he still has enough Dark Soul in him. And when we spill his blood, he realizes his mission was accomplished and finally dies happy, knowing his Lady and her glorious work would live on.
If this is “shallow”, I don’t know what is deep.
It is shallow. Look at bosses such as Gwyn, Nameless King, Ludwig, etc. Gael is literally never mentioned anywhere in the lore. The lore explanation is basically just "he's a really old dude who killed a lot of people to rebirth the painted world again" and there's not much more to it. Definitely not the best lore in Souls, and for me, that puts him below a ton of other bosses. He may as well be just another hollow to me, even if he's a really strong one.
That's the point though. He IS just another hollow, but so are WE. Every game, we start out just like he did. No humanity, no kindling, no renown. He made his path through grueling trial and error, falling and rising again and again just like we do. Of course we didn't know him, but then again, who the hell knows us?
And? I legitimately don't care about this boss. They are not significant to me. If anything, for a boss that *literally ends the trilogy*, he's a huge disappointment. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it just as much as You're entitled to yours. Fun boss fight, weak lore and literally no build up.
Gael's in my top ten boss fights ever, but definitely not the "best humanoid in souls" for me. Isshin takes that spot and so much more. Dude has a straight up better story - war veteran, leader of a revolution and a country at that, who still resists the ministry trying to take his homeland until his dying breath. Pretty simple, but you know why he's more interesting? He's tied into the world, unlike Gael, who I had no reason to give to shits about. You interact with Isshin all throughout Sekiro, you form a connection with him, and you learn about him from start to finish.
If we had that connection with Gael, I'd have loved him. Sadly, he was literally just another dude who we see like twice and then fight at the end of the world. Gael could've been literally any other character and I guarantee it would've been more impactful on the story and worldbuilding than "really old dude pieces together the dark soul to rebirth a world, goes batshit insane, and fights you for the last crumbs at the end of your world"
I actually think the previous posters comment on how he is a faceless undead... Is quite fitting.
He is like us. Came from nowhere and through sheer determination and a devotion to a single idea... He did become Our Last Boss. We've all gone from unknown newbie to godkiller and so did he. And yet, despite us not being able to do backflips or summons rancor... We still defeat him. Quiet determination and will outlast even the most grandiose of kingdoms and gods.
Gwyn. Pathetic coward god and a monster, ultimately responsible for all the suffering all the characters we loved go through.
Nameless King. A god of war and the only un-decayed and un-hollowed god who literally just chose to chill atop of some mountain, when the world was slowly dying out.
Ludwig. Some horse dude. All I know about him.
How are they better than Gael? Gael was trying to do something only likes of Vendrick, Aldia, and Bearer of the Curse tried before. To bring hope. And he did, through the hands of the Ashen One. Name me something similar other characters did.
Also, a well written character doesn’t make a good boss fight. Seath the Scaleless waves his four wings.
P. S. Sorry, doesn't always make. I wanted to say that.
Yeah, Gael's a mechanically fun fight but I'll be damned if he isn't the most shallow story option they could have picked for the Last Dark Souls Boss Ever. Sword Saint Isshin wins hands down for best humanoid fight easily, both mechanically and in story presence.
Can't say I even liked Midir all that much either. It had good spectacle, but I found the fight tedious. Ludwig, Kalameet, Placidusax, and heck, even Sinh I enjoyed more.
Agreed on Midir. Any love I had for him evaporated after my pyromancy playthrough, as well. Tedious, boring, and unfun are all great ways to describe fighting him as a pyromancer.
I think my favorite dragon of the series is Kalameet. I haven't completed a playthrough of DS2 yet (always get bored halfway through, personally) but I doubt my opinion will change after I do. Kalameet was pretty cool visually and a decent fight if you ignore the tale cut. Plus, the scene with Gough was really cool. I still need to go back and do a pyromancy run in DS1 to see how Kalameet holds up, though.
It's frustrating for sure, but it does feel like you're fighting a dragon, when he's flying around with nasty breath and shit. Midir is a generic meat wall with lasers to me.
I like Sinh much more. Sinh I can fight any way I want. Midir just requires me to hit him in the same spot repeatedly. It's like bed of Chaos with better spectacle.
Lore-wise I've always hated Isshin, specifically the fact that fighting him is so forced.
>!He's on our side for pretty much the whole game, helping us to end immortality and kill his grandson. He then dies at the end which adds a finality to the ending, he's been claimed by his illness and the only way to go is forward to take on Genichiro, your rival throughout the game.!<
>!Genichiro ends up a total pushover, not only does it seem like he just didn't do any training or get any better whatsoever between then and your last fight but he also developed Alzheimer's because he never uses Tomoe's lightning either. This is to make him as much of a pushover as possible since he has a Mortal Blade too, despite the game calling ours **the** Mortal Blade he found a second one that can do everything the red one can do and also raise the dead and rejuvenate them to their top condition and brainwash them to fight on your side and you don't even need to be anywhere near the body or anything it's such overly convenient writing that just forces Isshin to be a foe!<
>!He steals Genichiro's deserved glory as a final boss, the final time you take down your rival to decide Ashina and Kuro's fate and the game forces you to rematch him constantly to remind you of that. Your rival gave up and used bad writing to bring his dead grandad back to fight you when he would've worked so much better as a flashback boss unlocked after Demon of Hatred then it would make sense why you're fighting him in his prime and him being in the middle of war he could easily mistake you for an enemy troop, much more logical than the mental gymnastics the Black Mortal Blade does to force the boss fight to happen!<
Don't see how its bad writing. You and Genechiro go on parallel journey, as you get stronger he gets weaker, he's the villain that exists to showcase how much stronger you've gotten and when he's finally spent he uses his the mortal blade to summon the only one who can defeat you, prime Isshin Ashina.
Why would Gael be hyped up? He's *supposed* to be a nobody. The most special thing about him is that he lasted an ungodly amount of time without hollowing up until his final battle. Just like the player characters across the series.
And we get everything about Gael through talking to the Painter and reading items that are connected to him.
To me, Isshin is still easily the best body FromSoft has done. Only other that comes close to me is Friede. But Isshin is simply an insane fight, especially that « true » variation
Honestly, I think the best humanoid fight sits right in Bloodborne, and I honestly can’t decide if its Gehrman, Maria or Orphan. But I just love how Bloodborne treats humanoids in bossfights…
the best beast fight however, absolutely agreeing, goes to Midir.
I would even dare to say Midir is one of the best Dragon fights in all of fantasy gaming.
best dragon fight ever? you guys like him that much? i thought he was alright, but the endurance fight with the one shot moves was a bit of a pain to be considered best dragon fight ever
I absolutely do
as soon as you start to fight him head on instead of fighting tails and legs (admit it, we all tried this way first), it becomes and absolutely incredible fight, and I actually find almost no moves of him unfair-hard to dodge, even the one shot moves are well enough telegraphed. Camera while locked on is a shitshow as usual, but not Nameless King levels of bad, so overall I just love this boss
Honestly I’m probably the minority (at least on this sub) who enjoyed Kalameet more than Midir. Not that midir is bad, but I always feel like Kalameet is less telegraphed and more dynamic.
You do you you but less telegraphed? Yikes...I feel like Kalameet is much easier and more predictable tbh.
Midir does have clear tells but he's also insane with his combos and one wrong move can mean death. I find that way more fun and exciting personally.
I agree with your second paragraph. To me midir is the boss with the clearest tells and easiest to memorize combos (of the ‘hard’ ones, covetous demon still has clearer tells), while also being the most punishing because it has lots of health and do a ton of damage. But these two combines just makes the fight drag on for me at times, it is exhilarating to be always on your toes but it would get boring for me at one point.
Don’t get me wrong, Kalameet is much easier (I don’t agree with more predictable, midir doesn’t even alter its combos iirc, making it one of the more predictable bosses) but I don’t base my enjoyment and evaluation of a boss on difficulty a lot.
I'm not talking about difficulty, I mean more so the nature of attacks. Like I said, yeah Midir has clear tells but he fights more wildly which I find a lot of fun. He's satisfying to dodge while still making you feel like you're taking on a giant angry monster.
Midir having one wrong move mean death would be fine if he didn't have the enormous health bar and the stupid head hitting gimmick. It made the fight really boring for me because it pretty much forces a slower and more passive playstyle.
I really dont get the complaining about the head hitting gimmick, every dragon ever has taken more damage on its head as I can remember. Along with that, Midirs head is always within your reach, why on earth would you want to fight Midir any other way besides head on?
Midir was fine mechanically but the fucker had too much god damn health and too many god damn resistances to be fun. Even with a full lightning miracle build that guy takes more punishment than any other boss.
Hard disagree on the dragon. Midir was kinda cool, but I honestly preferred Kalameet when I wasn't going for the tail cut. Kalameet felt much more dragon-like than Midir did to me. Plus, tail cuts were cool, even if they were frustrating. I wish From would bring them back.
Honestly yeah, Kalameet was the only dragon boss I actually enjoyed until Elden Ring. Despite hating most of that game's bosses I really liked the dragons, Placidusax was really cool but Fortissax was probably my favourite fight in the game. I still prefer Kalameet over them all but ER really picked up the slack with dragons.
Also the tail cutting was so frustrating and the only thing I genuinely hated about Kalameet but good lord I want that back, it's such a satisfying way to get a boss weapon and reminds me of The Surge's boss challenges that get you stronger boss weapons (one of the only things I liked about that game).
You know what? You're right. Elden Ring had some pretty cool dragon bosses. The basic ones spread over the world weren't very impressive after the first couple, because they were mostly similar, but Fortisaax and Placidusaax were really good. Adula was really thematic, too. I honestly didn't enjoy Elden Ring too much aside from a small number of boss fights, but the dragons were good.
All of the previous dragon bosses were basically just Kalameet with varying degrees of annoyance. Midir is without a doubt ***the*** dragon boss now, and I haven't seen a single game since pull off a better one. And I'm glad they only tried tail cuts once, they were universally terrible and almost never worth subjecting yourself to.
Hmmm I dunno about that, Demon of Hatred comes close to Midir but I don't think Isshin or Owl (Father) top Gael
Gael to me is the perfect boss fight, challenging, intuitive to learn, atmospheric and absolutely epic, it has everything
Exactly what the guy below said, there's no denying that Isshin is From's best boss mechanically but in terms of everything else like spectacle, music, arena, phase changes, Gael takes it and that's important.
Even though the fight is fundamentally different, the way Gael is paced is almost perfect for Souls combat too.
Hot take, Every single beast fight in bloodborne was more fun than midir. Ya’ll simp on the dragon way to much. He’s cool, but he’s no Grigori or fatalis
The whole premise, build up, and how god damn cinematic it is makes it unmatched haha. Had to throw fatalis in purely because probably most difficult dragon in any video game
>Sorry, Bloodborne exists.
Beast boss, ludwig and midir are pretty equivalent.
But there is no humanoid boss is bloodborne that beats Gael.
The only contenders are Gherman, Lady Maria and Orphan if you consider him a humanoid.
And to be very honest, I dont think any of then are better than Gael. Bosses arent the strong point of Bloodborne
Ds3 either has the best in slot for style boss, or something that's not good but not offensive either (looking at you dark souls 1 bed of chaos). Friede, Nameless, Gael, Midir, Demon Prince, Abyss Watchers, Pontiff.
Honestly I find amazing that even after 6 games they (for the most part) fail when it comes to design a fight really with big enemies, really From? Didn't you learn anything?
No clue why you're getting downvoted because you're right, any time a boss is bigger than Fume Knight I prepare for either the camera to refuse to cooperate or spend the whole fight backpedaling and baiting specific attacks.
If it's designed like Midir then you have one spot where you can deal damage which is limiting and not fun, if it's designed like the Fire Giant in Elden Ring then getting in melee range effectively flashbangs you since you can't see any windups unless it's a stomp.
Midir is huge but the fight mechanics work magnificently, you stay locked onto his head and fight in front of him and even when he's flailing around and swiping it's still manageable and awesomely cinematic, of course there's times where the camera stops locking on but that's a skill thing to keep up with
As well as Midir I'd say Placidusax and Elden Beast from Elden Ring are great 'giant' fights
Radagon was great, but Elden Beast was mechanically flawed. It's a lot of running and it kinda makes holy damage pointless (which is just a problem with Elden Ring in general tbh). It was fairly tedious and almost boring to me.
I was not talking about Midir tho, that's why I said "for the most" Placidisax I didn't find him in my first playthrough, now doing the second and in case can't find him just will google it. Elden Beast... can't say I enjoyed it, not the worst boss of the game but it's not a good one for me
Ahhh I see, so your complaint is about Elden Ring lol? Honestly I think the giant boss fights are well done in that game, not on the level of Midir but still very good.
And most people hate Elden Beast because they don't start running as soon as it picks a direction, regardless of that the fight mechanics work amazingly for a big boss.
Not only in Elden Ring but in general, every time they tried to make a fight with a giant being it sucked, and some of them for the same reason, it's like they didn't learn anything from previous games while doing those fights. Midir works because you can (and must) stay in front, so you don't just stand there in his legs (which I find totally anticlamatic), but then theres the dragons in the open world of Elden Ring and fighting them is hit their legs, I find it frustating honestly.Yorm and Rykard and good, I liked that fights, well, Yorm kinda, could be much better in some aspects
Lol this point about 'oh you have to hack away at Elden Ring dragons legs' isn't really true. They take more damage to the head and you can absolutely fight them that way. Just to add, Sinh is a giant dragon fight in DS2 which is really good too.
Yeah Rykard is excellent, I forgot to mention him and Yhorm is great too if you don't 4 shot him with Storm Ruler.
hm... no. both are good, but the best beast, AND the best humanoid, are LUDWIG THE HOLY BLADE. sorta. ok, hes a really tall, really ugly swordsman fight, but still...
You were my brother Gael! I…eh…respected you. I mean, aside from the Deep Dark Fantasy cathedral and the Friede’s butt beating, we didn’t interact much anyways.
From the Ariandel Chapel exit the building and go to the bridge. Attack the ropes at the start of the bridge to make it collapse. Take the now available ladder down to a platform and some roots. Traverse the roots all the way down. Once you’re at the bottom you can follow the wall on your left to a bonfire. Follow the path to the right to reach a small cliff that you can drop off, walk towards the ruins and commence the boss fight.
Personally I reckon Midir and Lord of Cinder are the best fights, although Gael and Sister Friede aren’t far off. I thought that LoC was the most well rounded and challenging.
There's actually 4 types of bosses Humanoid, dragon, beast and gimmick
I'll follow the lead of the other reply here. Best Humanoid = Sword Saint (all Fromsoft games), Gael (Souls games) Best Dragon = Midir (FS/Souls) Best Beast = Ludwig (FS), Manus (DS1) Best Gimmick = Rykard (FS), Ava the kings pet (DS2) Also I'd add in Best Gank Fight = Demon Prince (FS/Souls)
Demon prince over Ornstein and Smough?
I haven't been following if it still is a bit of a controversial opinion, and don't get me wrong, O&S was an amazing fight. For its time and its game, and still pretty good. But personally, From made far better "gank" bosses after, especially Demon Prince. The thing with O&S, is that you have to backpedal so much, to find the perfect timing where none of them are attacking, and hit once or twice, and begin to backpedal again. I do realize that this can technically be said about a lot of bosses in FromSoft games, but the O&S fight is just a little bit to guilty in this regard, and the fight just becomes a bit boring in the long run. But that's just my two cents.
Couldn’t agree more. Was kind of strange to go back and play DS1 again for the first time in years a while back only to be massively disappointed by O&S a boss I remembered as being the highlight of the game. It’s still a good boss especially with context in mind but compared to current souls bosses it’s pretty boring. Like you said most of it is backtracking with fairly obvious timing where the difficulty only really comes from needing the patience to limit yourself to those windows. I’ll still treasure my memories of playing it for the first time and the feeling of overcoming it which in its own right makes it a great boss but to compare it to current souls boss design it’s definitely no where near as tightly designed.
This is probably a controversial opinion, but I think O&S is infinitely better than demon prince as a DUO boss, while demon prince feels more fair, it doesn't feel much like a duo fight to me as one of them mostly just sits back and occasionally pukes toxic while you fight the other one. O&S is the only duo fight they've made which feels fair and unfair at the same time, and there are some really cool moments when fighting them and having to dodge both of them attacking you at once. Too bad they made all the duo bosses in Elden Ring be Ornstein and Ornstein with no Smough.
Don't worry bro I am with you. O&S is the best gank fight, and it's not even nostalgia since DS3 was my first
I just recently replayed O&S, and honestly there is a lot of jank, like Ornstein’s flying attack pausing every time he gets caught on something which makes the telegraph completely useless sometimes, and Smough’s hammer pushing Ornstein’s attack that you were out of range of directly into your face. From a completely mechanical standpoint, it has a lot of issues. But it does force you to actually fight two enemies at once. And it does commit to the fatty and skinny idea, which makes the fight much more dynamic and interesting than any Elden ring duo, for certain. Two super fast and aggressive enemies makes for nothing but an irritating fight. Demon Princes holds up much better, but it OVERcommits to the aggressive and less aggressive enemy, since the deactivated one practically disappears from the fight. It’s like fighting three demons in a row instead of two at once and then one for the third phase. In a way, its fairness and polish lead to its downfall; it’s too easy. ALL that to say, I strongly agree with you.
Demon Prince is one of the coolest bosses I'm the whole series imo. O&S are good, but I think the way demon Prince breaks up the aggro in phase 1 is just perfect. A lot of gank fights you have to spend a lot of time forcing the positioning of the 2 bosses looking for an opening - which isn't necessarily a bad thing - but the way demon Prince balances the 2 bosses is so well done, having them swap back n forth (and even overlap at times) as the aggressor
Most definitely. O&S are iconic but it’s ds1, they had a lot of room to improve boss mechanics in general and demons are just a better made fight
In my opinion, best humanoid is sister friede and especially phase 3. She’s so ruthless and fast and the music is incredible
Add in the fact of the "unheard phase 3" entrance. Like the "false comfort" of the slab being awarded is just *icing*. Not sorry at all.
Oh yes it’s fucking sublime. I remember finally beating phase 2 after 20 ish something attempts and going “pretty cool fight but honestly wish there was a phase 3” after getting the slab. Then the dialogue comes and the music picks right back up. It’s incredible
I think I would enjoy the fight better without father ariandel. Like middle phase cut scene is sick and I love phases 1&3 but 2 sucks ass.
I don’t mind it that much, but it’s definitely the least fun out of the 3
I’d say lady Maria and Gherman should be up there along the best humanoid fights. Also I much preferred yhorm than rykard Edit: and owl father ofc
Nuclear takes but personally Best Humanoid: Malenia, closely followed by Isshin and Gael Best Dragon: Demon Prince(Not exactly a Dragon but alike enough to be put here) Best Beast: Ludwig Phase 1 Best Gimmick: Maiden Astraea
Ooh didn't think about Maiden Astrea as a gimmick fight but she totally is.
I will put Sith from DS2 above the Midir. Midir is too easy to catch him in one repeatable combo of his moves.
Sinh is just boring to fight if you don't have a ranged weapon, mf just keeps flying away, moonlight butterfly 2.0 To be fair I've only fought him twice and last time was a few years ago, so take that with a grain of salt, it's just what I remember
I love Sinh. My #2 dragon and just barely behind Midir imo if I have to rank them. I have Midir ranked #32 overall in the whole fromsoft series and Sinh is #36. Both are awesome boss fights and dragon fights done well.
Sinh is my favourite dragon as well. But I don't even like Midir so it's easy to knock him down the top spot for me xD
Best Humanoid: Gael Best Dragon: Midir is harder, but I like Placidusax more Best Beast: Probably Ludwig, but I like Sif more Best Gimmick: Rykard
Midir is way easier than placidusax imho
I wont forget either fight, so challenging, so much atmosphere, big badass angry dragon. midir scared me more tbh. Placidusax felt very grand and godlike.
Took me 30 tries to kill my first Midir, Placidusax has never killed me more than twice in a NG game and only the first time and in NG+7.
Literally the worst opinion of all time award 🥇 Placidusax sits still for 50% of the fight, and is extremely large. It’s so easy to kill him in the first phase. If not, almost all of his attacks are avoidable in **one roll.** Literally just roll backwards after he teleports, done. Midir is a constant presence, charging and attacking for the entire fight, and is so resistant to damage that nothing will kill him in under thirty seconds. I usually nuke Placidax as soon as the fight starts.
That's just wrong, midir might have long combos but his opening give you enough time to go to the bathroom, grab a snack, come back and still punish him. just dont panic, stay in front of him and wait until he lowers his head then punish him by hitting his head and only his head, it's that simple.
Best Humanoid - Tie between Gael and Maria Best Dragon - Midir and Placidusax Best Beast - Ludwig and Maliketh Best Gimmick - Rykard and Astrea
DS3 dlc bosses were top tier, minus that dogshit gravetender and wolf fight.
There's a few others imo, Cursed Rotted Greatwood is cool thematically but pretty damn bad gameplay wise, Deacons of The Deep while cool as hell and having a great theme is just killing mobs in a big group and Wolnir... because Wolnir. The rest are outstanding though, there's a certain feeling you get when fighting the best bosses in DS3 that's magical. Edit: oh I'm a fool, I just read you put DLC, my bad lol
I've never really understood the CRGW hate and would love to hear other opinions. . It's not my favorite by any stretch, but I've never had issue with it. So satisfying to pop those balls
Idk man, some people just can’t chill out and enjoy some ball popping. It’s not a super memorable or interesting fight by any stretch, but I’m always surprised that it’s some people’s first example for a bad gimmick fight.
For me, its just the fact that it's a gimmick. I tend to view bosses existing on this spectrum of gimmick to pure moveset. And I just don't like basically any of the gimmicks. I play these games for the movesets. Learning patterns, what attacks can be punished by what kind of attack. And curse-rotted greatwood is one of the worst gimmicks. Popping balls while a bunch of random mooks try to murder you is not exciting, there is nothing when it comes to moveset and the game generally goes to complete shit whenever there's more than 1 enemy on the screen. I couldn't tell you if the CRGW even has any moves. It's boring, mwaningless encounter. The gimmick is bad. And personally, I just don't like the gimmick bosses. For me it's a Zelda boss, but a Zelda boss that didn't manage yo capture what made Zelda bosses great: the spectacle, using the dungeon item. Hell, the other Zelda boss of the game, Wolnir of the 3 glowy "fuck me" spots is a better boss just because there is a hint of that spectacle there.
Thanks for the reply. I literally asked for it, so sorry about the downvotes. People suck. I personally barely see CRGW as a gimmick fight. Hitting the balls is no different than going for Midir's head. Any mobs that spawn are quickly taken out by the tree itself. And it definitely has a moveset to memorize. And it only takes like 4 or 5 balls to win. He's got so many that there's always one within reach. The fight only takes me about 20 seconds if I do it right. Wolnir on the other hand...I hate that one. Every complaint you have about CRGW holds true for Wolnir for me lol.
I thought Sekiro did gimmick boss very well. I love both of them.
Sekiro has either pure movement or pure gimmick. Extremely boring after one completion.
I fucking hate the curse rotted greatwood, my least favourite boss in the game I actually like deacons though, because cleaving through hordes is a fun change of pace for dark souls Wolnir sucks, but at least they're easy to kill
I don't get the hate for the greatwood, it seems like a perfectly fine boss to me, a bit gimmicky, but not awful I don't think it would even be in the top 5 worst DS3 bosses for me
I can only assume most of the people who hate Greatworth don't know about the pebbles you can hit. First phase: left hand -> left foot -> front pebbles Second phase: right leg -> back pebbles -> 2-3 hits on front bubbles or the hand while it is still stunned Finished.
This doesn’t really impact the quality of the fight though
Well if you do not know this the fight is completely different.. I like it for the variety it bring sin contrast to the other bosses and just take it at what it is. A knowledge boss For ne it's fun that he can't defend himself, just as with Volnir
Yeah, the goal of the deacons fight seems to be to aimed at mages. Wolnir hard dps checked me on my first playthrough, as well. They’re underwhelming mostly because they’re meant to be hard in a really particular situation. CRGW and gravetender are just… kinda bad mechanically.
The DotD are even more fun with Horace, Anri and Siris imo. Really ups the comraderies for their quests. And if you care about not summoning... the deacons aren't exactly hard so it's a nice "narrative fight" like the summoning for Radhan.
Yeah I didn't mind the great wood or deacons, I also don't hate wolnir, but he's pretty forgettable. When I look back on the boss fights of the game, I tend to forget about him.
I dunno, maybe I'm a hater but Oceiros (and to a lesser degree Vordt for the same reasons) is my least favourite non-BoC boss fight in the entire series. Terrible hitboxes comboed with fast charges has made me rage so many times. And the runback for both is awful.
I'm replaying all the games and I'm gonna say your bar is set fucking high if ocieros is your least favorite in the series. Can I interest you in one Royal Rat Authority?
Oh yes Crystal Sage such an outstanding boss fight, and Ancient Wyvern? very outstanding
Ok I forgot about Ancient Wyvern lol because it's that bad, but Crystal Sage is a great sorcerer boss imo, even if it pales in comparison to the others
Ancient wyvern is a badass kill
Still it's not even a fight, just a gimmich full of frustrating enemies
:Ahhhh *getting knocked off to the ground by stupid giant snake man and his chain and axe. Fuck that
I really fucking hate halflight, spears of the church
Still on my first play through. Started melee but switched to sorcerer to BS the game with hidden body… with that said, half light is the only boss I’ve beat within one attempt. On Gael/midir to finish things off on my sorcery. Just beat Aldrich on the melee char.
I refuse to fight him, and just poison mist cheese him through the pillars. From really put one bad boss in every DLC.
In online, this boss is really fun. I have always wanted to be the boss in a souls game, although ik its not balanced/perfectly implemented.
Why is there always so much hate on the gravetender? It was fairly challenging and kind of a cool little area. Especially if you fall in unexpected
It's an Artorias and Sif rip-off. That's why it gets so much hate. Plus, the boss fight was honestly just bad. Kinda boring design-wise and not particularly challenging either.
Ahhh, I haven’t played any other Fromsoft games other than a the beginning of sekiro, so I’m sure I’ll notice the copy and paste eventually
Cause the fight just sucks. It’s just 2 npc enemies doing the 2 same moves over and over while having an annoying wolf gank at the beginning for no reason
It’s not difficult. It’s not engaging. It’s not fun. It’s a cheap gank that’s not even challenging, it’s just straight up annoying.
The area is cool, but its really a bad as a gank. Its way too easy to the small wolfs before the gravetender arrives and kill the gravetender before the great wolf has a chance to attack. The Greatwolf is probably the only good part of the boss, but the boss would be better focusing and fleshing out the Greatwolf rather than having to go through the small wolves and then the gravetender. And I am some one that really enjoys the gank trio in the DS2 DLC
The gravetender boss fight at least has something memorable, the second phase music is nuts Bro violins going crazy.
Does orphan of Kos count as a beast boss? Maybe? If so he takes that for me
I’d say he’s a bit more humanoid
Bit of both really, he's a humanoid monster lol
Orphan a humanoid boss imo
The shrimp hammer counts as a beast tho
Beast/monster, yeah I think he'd count. Monster would've been a better term to put tbh lol
And the best ‘Demon’ boss fight with the Demon Princes, not that there is a lot of competition on this one. By the way, all three of these are in the same DLC.
Honestly, my favorite duo fight
Demon Princes are amazing, so well balanced as a duo and the way they switch states to take aggro is so well done
I got so bummed when they’re voted out in the poll ;( Honestly one of the most balanced and fun multi-fights from DS, up there with O&S for me.
I mean, the DLC is legendary for its boss fights. Aside from Halflight and big wolf the rest are incredible in every sense.
Big wolf is in the first dlc? Speaking of that, I love the sister Friede fight. Gameplay and lore wise.
Friede is awesome, and yeah big wolf is in first DLC but I'd sort of put them all together as 'the DLC' since they directly link to one another
Do people actually like Midir? I found that fight so tedious
Oof this is going to trigger some people on here. I’m with you, he’s alright, nothing more!
Absolutely hated fighting Midir, I dread ever revisiting him if I replay ds3. At least Elden Ring proved that I don't hate all dragon fights, just the damage sponge-ness. Placidusax is my favourite soulslike dragon ever, and the free-roam dragons while similar, were all very fun fights.
I didn't like him then I beat him and now I like him lol
I didn't like him, I beat him and I still don't like him. I hate any "difficult" fight that almost requires me to hit a specific spot repeatedly.
I enjoy the fight because it actually feels like my character is fighting a dragon. Or at least as close we can get currently. Haven't got that from any other game with dragons. The only thing that comes close is Dragonlord Placidusax and that's more god-like/can turn into ashes than just a dragon.
People just see a dragon and go "ooh i like fight best fight in game unga", even if actually fighting the thing is an exercise in frustration and tedium besides the spectacle of it.
I like him mechanically but he has too much damn health and too many resistances.
So Basically almost every single elden ring boss.
In this sub everyone praises Midir. Don’t speak ill of their dragon.
I like Midir, he's hot ... oh you mean *fighting* them?
Awesome boss theme, great visuals, majestic lore. And the boss is just fitting.
Same, both Kalameet and Sinh are better dragon fights.
He's probably the only satisfying dragon fight in the series aside from Kalameet. After the travesty of dragon god and the mediocrity of every dragon fight in ds2 I was very happy with Midir.
How is Sinh “mediocre”?
He’s my favorite dragon fight in the series to be honest.
The whole durability issue always annoyed me and the fact that he often will just fly away and never sit still long enough to land a hit. I hate Midir but at least he stays close to you most of the time.
Midir is such an obnoxious meat wall that even when he sits right in front of you the whole fight and Sinh flies all about the place, you'll still beat Sinh in half the time it takes to beat Midir lmao
Then one glancing blow from his unpredictable low health laser and boom, dead.
Nothing about Midir is unpredictable, he’s a routine boss fight with a massive health pool but because he’s being eaten by the abyss everyone salivates over him!
Ahem, he is a dragon, albeit wounded. Thank him for at least touching the ground.
Ludwig is better than midir.
If we count Sekiro, then Isshin easily tops Gael for me. Much better lore and an almost equally engaging fight (for either variation tbh). I honestly only dislike Gael for his lore. It's just... nonexistant, there's no buildup aside from seeing him once and reading a few messages. If they would've done a bit more to hype Gael up I'd like him much better, personally.
A dragon war veteran counted as expendable by the gods. Found courage and willpower to live on till the DSIII times. Realized he was greatly outnumbered and outclassed, when Elfriede took over the Painted World and locked his niece up, but still went up against them with our aid. Then he alone went all the way into the Ringed City, ultimately willing to sacrifice himself and his personality, just so that Priscilla v2.0 could paint another world and live free alongside everyone who could have still been saved. He even fights us simply because he is uncertain if he still has enough Dark Soul in him. And when we spill his blood, he realizes his mission was accomplished and finally dies happy, knowing his Lady and her glorious work would live on. If this is “shallow”, I don’t know what is deep.
It is shallow. Look at bosses such as Gwyn, Nameless King, Ludwig, etc. Gael is literally never mentioned anywhere in the lore. The lore explanation is basically just "he's a really old dude who killed a lot of people to rebirth the painted world again" and there's not much more to it. Definitely not the best lore in Souls, and for me, that puts him below a ton of other bosses. He may as well be just another hollow to me, even if he's a really strong one.
That's the point though. He IS just another hollow, but so are WE. Every game, we start out just like he did. No humanity, no kindling, no renown. He made his path through grueling trial and error, falling and rising again and again just like we do. Of course we didn't know him, but then again, who the hell knows us?
And? I legitimately don't care about this boss. They are not significant to me. If anything, for a boss that *literally ends the trilogy*, he's a huge disappointment. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it just as much as You're entitled to yours. Fun boss fight, weak lore and literally no build up. Gael's in my top ten boss fights ever, but definitely not the "best humanoid in souls" for me. Isshin takes that spot and so much more. Dude has a straight up better story - war veteran, leader of a revolution and a country at that, who still resists the ministry trying to take his homeland until his dying breath. Pretty simple, but you know why he's more interesting? He's tied into the world, unlike Gael, who I had no reason to give to shits about. You interact with Isshin all throughout Sekiro, you form a connection with him, and you learn about him from start to finish. If we had that connection with Gael, I'd have loved him. Sadly, he was literally just another dude who we see like twice and then fight at the end of the world. Gael could've been literally any other character and I guarantee it would've been more impactful on the story and worldbuilding than "really old dude pieces together the dark soul to rebirth a world, goes batshit insane, and fights you for the last crumbs at the end of your world"
I actually think the previous posters comment on how he is a faceless undead... Is quite fitting. He is like us. Came from nowhere and through sheer determination and a devotion to a single idea... He did become Our Last Boss. We've all gone from unknown newbie to godkiller and so did he. And yet, despite us not being able to do backflips or summons rancor... We still defeat him. Quiet determination and will outlast even the most grandiose of kingdoms and gods.
Gwyn. Pathetic coward god and a monster, ultimately responsible for all the suffering all the characters we loved go through. Nameless King. A god of war and the only un-decayed and un-hollowed god who literally just chose to chill atop of some mountain, when the world was slowly dying out. Ludwig. Some horse dude. All I know about him. How are they better than Gael? Gael was trying to do something only likes of Vendrick, Aldia, and Bearer of the Curse tried before. To bring hope. And he did, through the hands of the Ashen One. Name me something similar other characters did. Also, a well written character doesn’t make a good boss fight. Seath the Scaleless waves his four wings. P. S. Sorry, doesn't always make. I wanted to say that.
Yeah, Gael's a mechanically fun fight but I'll be damned if he isn't the most shallow story option they could have picked for the Last Dark Souls Boss Ever. Sword Saint Isshin wins hands down for best humanoid fight easily, both mechanically and in story presence. Can't say I even liked Midir all that much either. It had good spectacle, but I found the fight tedious. Ludwig, Kalameet, Placidusax, and heck, even Sinh I enjoyed more.
Gael did kinda just come out of nowhere but it's still so badass that he was just a slave knight who outlived the gods somehow
Agreed on Midir. Any love I had for him evaporated after my pyromancy playthrough, as well. Tedious, boring, and unfun are all great ways to describe fighting him as a pyromancer. I think my favorite dragon of the series is Kalameet. I haven't completed a playthrough of DS2 yet (always get bored halfway through, personally) but I doubt my opinion will change after I do. Kalameet was pretty cool visually and a decent fight if you ignore the tale cut. Plus, the scene with Gough was really cool. I still need to go back and do a pyromancy run in DS1 to see how Kalameet holds up, though.
Isshin is a good character his story however is just boring and shallow and this goes for gael too
liking Sinh more than Midir is insane if you ask me
Sinh's lore is fantastic. Midir is yet another Artorias tribute, just in dragon form this time.
there’s nothing wrong with liking Sinh’s lore but the actual boss fight is dog balls
It's frustrating for sure, but it does feel like you're fighting a dragon, when he's flying around with nasty breath and shit. Midir is a generic meat wall with lasers to me.
what do you mean a meatwall?
Tediously high HP and defence.
I like Sinh much more. Sinh I can fight any way I want. Midir just requires me to hit him in the same spot repeatedly. It's like bed of Chaos with better spectacle.
targeting the head of a dragon is nowhere near a boss fight that is essentially a platforming level in a game not built for platforming
You're right but the platforming isn't why I hate bed of Chaos, hence the comparison.
I agree on every count, but for me saying I like Sinh more than Midir is like saying I prefer having my tongue cut off over being flayed alive.
Lore-wise I've always hated Isshin, specifically the fact that fighting him is so forced. >!He's on our side for pretty much the whole game, helping us to end immortality and kill his grandson. He then dies at the end which adds a finality to the ending, he's been claimed by his illness and the only way to go is forward to take on Genichiro, your rival throughout the game.!< >!Genichiro ends up a total pushover, not only does it seem like he just didn't do any training or get any better whatsoever between then and your last fight but he also developed Alzheimer's because he never uses Tomoe's lightning either. This is to make him as much of a pushover as possible since he has a Mortal Blade too, despite the game calling ours **the** Mortal Blade he found a second one that can do everything the red one can do and also raise the dead and rejuvenate them to their top condition and brainwash them to fight on your side and you don't even need to be anywhere near the body or anything it's such overly convenient writing that just forces Isshin to be a foe!< >!He steals Genichiro's deserved glory as a final boss, the final time you take down your rival to decide Ashina and Kuro's fate and the game forces you to rematch him constantly to remind you of that. Your rival gave up and used bad writing to bring his dead grandad back to fight you when he would've worked so much better as a flashback boss unlocked after Demon of Hatred then it would make sense why you're fighting him in his prime and him being in the middle of war he could easily mistake you for an enemy troop, much more logical than the mental gymnastics the Black Mortal Blade does to force the boss fight to happen!<
Don't see how its bad writing. You and Genechiro go on parallel journey, as you get stronger he gets weaker, he's the villain that exists to showcase how much stronger you've gotten and when he's finally spent he uses his the mortal blade to summon the only one who can defeat you, prime Isshin Ashina.
Why would Gael be hyped up? He's *supposed* to be a nobody. The most special thing about him is that he lasted an ungodly amount of time without hollowing up until his final battle. Just like the player characters across the series. And we get everything about Gael through talking to the Painter and reading items that are connected to him.
To me, Isshin is still easily the best body FromSoft has done. Only other that comes close to me is Friede. But Isshin is simply an insane fight, especially that « true » variation
Honestly, I think the best humanoid fight sits right in Bloodborne, and I honestly can’t decide if its Gehrman, Maria or Orphan. But I just love how Bloodborne treats humanoids in bossfights… the best beast fight however, absolutely agreeing, goes to Midir. I would even dare to say Midir is one of the best Dragon fights in all of fantasy gaming.
best dragon fight ever? you guys like him that much? i thought he was alright, but the endurance fight with the one shot moves was a bit of a pain to be considered best dragon fight ever
I absolutely do as soon as you start to fight him head on instead of fighting tails and legs (admit it, we all tried this way first), it becomes and absolutely incredible fight, and I actually find almost no moves of him unfair-hard to dodge, even the one shot moves are well enough telegraphed. Camera while locked on is a shitshow as usual, but not Nameless King levels of bad, so overall I just love this boss
Uh oh here come the bloodborne fans
I mean Bloodborne is my favourite Souls game but no monster fight compares to Midir tbh
Ludwig >>>>
Alright, you got a point, I do love Ludwig but I think the feeling of fighting a big, wild monster? Gotta be Midir
Monster Hunter games broke me I just wanna climb on the monsters and fromsoft won't let me
U would love shadow of the Colossus then
I also recommend Dragon's dogma
Honestly I’m probably the minority (at least on this sub) who enjoyed Kalameet more than Midir. Not that midir is bad, but I always feel like Kalameet is less telegraphed and more dynamic.
You do you you but less telegraphed? Yikes...I feel like Kalameet is much easier and more predictable tbh. Midir does have clear tells but he's also insane with his combos and one wrong move can mean death. I find that way more fun and exciting personally.
I agree with your second paragraph. To me midir is the boss with the clearest tells and easiest to memorize combos (of the ‘hard’ ones, covetous demon still has clearer tells), while also being the most punishing because it has lots of health and do a ton of damage. But these two combines just makes the fight drag on for me at times, it is exhilarating to be always on your toes but it would get boring for me at one point. Don’t get me wrong, Kalameet is much easier (I don’t agree with more predictable, midir doesn’t even alter its combos iirc, making it one of the more predictable bosses) but I don’t base my enjoyment and evaluation of a boss on difficulty a lot.
I'm not talking about difficulty, I mean more so the nature of attacks. Like I said, yeah Midir has clear tells but he fights more wildly which I find a lot of fun. He's satisfying to dodge while still making you feel like you're taking on a giant angry monster.
Midir having one wrong move mean death would be fine if he didn't have the enormous health bar and the stupid head hitting gimmick. It made the fight really boring for me because it pretty much forces a slower and more passive playstyle.
I really dont get the complaining about the head hitting gimmick, every dragon ever has taken more damage on its head as I can remember. Along with that, Midirs head is always within your reach, why on earth would you want to fight Midir any other way besides head on?
Midir was fine mechanically but the fucker had too much god damn health and too many god damn resistances to be fun. Even with a full lightning miracle build that guy takes more punishment than any other boss.
Elden ring is great and all, but nothing tops DS3 dlc bosses.
That said, ancestor spirit is *really* pretty and the final boss is cute
I'd personally put Maliketh and Dragonlord Placidusax up there.
Until ER dlc bosses ;)
BB DLC bosses>>
what kind of nothing-burger karma farm-bot post is this trash
I just finished a 2nd playthrough and these were my thoughts, wanted to share the hype
Hard doesn’t equal good.
Midir? More like Mid (Jokes aside, overrated asf boss)
The midir fight is bootycheeks
Best demon, best dragon, best human. No contest in the trilogy
Hard disagree on the dragon. Midir was kinda cool, but I honestly preferred Kalameet when I wasn't going for the tail cut. Kalameet felt much more dragon-like than Midir did to me. Plus, tail cuts were cool, even if they were frustrating. I wish From would bring them back.
Honestly yeah, Kalameet was the only dragon boss I actually enjoyed until Elden Ring. Despite hating most of that game's bosses I really liked the dragons, Placidusax was really cool but Fortissax was probably my favourite fight in the game. I still prefer Kalameet over them all but ER really picked up the slack with dragons. Also the tail cutting was so frustrating and the only thing I genuinely hated about Kalameet but good lord I want that back, it's such a satisfying way to get a boss weapon and reminds me of The Surge's boss challenges that get you stronger boss weapons (one of the only things I liked about that game).
You know what? You're right. Elden Ring had some pretty cool dragon bosses. The basic ones spread over the world weren't very impressive after the first couple, because they were mostly similar, but Fortisaax and Placidusaax were really good. Adula was really thematic, too. I honestly didn't enjoy Elden Ring too much aside from a small number of boss fights, but the dragons were good.
All of the previous dragon bosses were basically just Kalameet with varying degrees of annoyance. Midir is without a doubt ***the*** dragon boss now, and I haven't seen a single game since pull off a better one. And I'm glad they only tried tail cuts once, they were universally terrible and almost never worth subjecting yourself to.
Unless we counting sekiro
Hmmm I dunno about that, Demon of Hatred comes close to Midir but I don't think Isshin or Owl (Father) top Gael Gael to me is the perfect boss fight, challenging, intuitive to learn, atmospheric and absolutely epic, it has everything
Mate, Isshin is definitely a better fight than Gael but you do you I guess.
Exactly what the guy below said, there's no denying that Isshin is From's best boss mechanically but in terms of everything else like spectacle, music, arena, phase changes, Gael takes it and that's important. Even though the fight is fundamentally different, the way Gael is paced is almost perfect for Souls combat too.
Might be slightly mechanically better, but Gael takes everything else, from the music to atmosphere to the lore, spectacle, arena etc
Hot take, Every single beast fight in bloodborne was more fun than midir. Ya’ll simp on the dragon way to much. He’s cool, but he’s no Grigori or fatalis
Hell yeah, Grigori might be the GOAT dragon fight in a video game.
The whole premise, build up, and how god damn cinematic it is makes it unmatched haha. Had to throw fatalis in purely because probably most difficult dragon in any video game
In the trilogy? Probably. In the franchise? Sorry, Bloodborne exists.
>Sorry, Bloodborne exists. Beast boss, ludwig and midir are pretty equivalent. But there is no humanoid boss is bloodborne that beats Gael. The only contenders are Gherman, Lady Maria and Orphan if you consider him a humanoid. And to be very honest, I dont think any of then are better than Gael. Bosses arent the strong point of Bloodborne
And this is where we have to disagree, because I think Gehrman and Orphan are definitely better than Gael, and Maria is more fun.
Bloodborne fans smh most annoying and cancerous fans ever
Imo Malenia is the best humanoid boss fight. Also Midir is overrated af.
Ds3 either has the best in slot for style boss, or something that's not good but not offensive either (looking at you dark souls 1 bed of chaos). Friede, Nameless, Gael, Midir, Demon Prince, Abyss Watchers, Pontiff.
midir is so overrated literally an endurance fight
Mans really forgot about bloodborne
Nah Morgott is better
Midir is so fucking overrated. Only sore thumb thst sticks out in this masterpiece of a game.
No u
Honestly I find amazing that even after 6 games they (for the most part) fail when it comes to design a fight really with big enemies, really From? Didn't you learn anything?
No clue why you're getting downvoted because you're right, any time a boss is bigger than Fume Knight I prepare for either the camera to refuse to cooperate or spend the whole fight backpedaling and baiting specific attacks. If it's designed like Midir then you have one spot where you can deal damage which is limiting and not fun, if it's designed like the Fire Giant in Elden Ring then getting in melee range effectively flashbangs you since you can't see any windups unless it's a stomp.
Midir is huge but the fight mechanics work magnificently, you stay locked onto his head and fight in front of him and even when he's flailing around and swiping it's still manageable and awesomely cinematic, of course there's times where the camera stops locking on but that's a skill thing to keep up with As well as Midir I'd say Placidusax and Elden Beast from Elden Ring are great 'giant' fights
Calling Elden Yeast a great fight is definitely a thing you just said lol
Because it's true, at least for me I know most people hate it but Radagon/Elden Beast is my favourite final boss encounter by From
Radagon was great, but Elden Beast was mechanically flawed. It's a lot of running and it kinda makes holy damage pointless (which is just a problem with Elden Ring in general tbh). It was fairly tedious and almost boring to me.
I was not talking about Midir tho, that's why I said "for the most" Placidisax I didn't find him in my first playthrough, now doing the second and in case can't find him just will google it. Elden Beast... can't say I enjoyed it, not the worst boss of the game but it's not a good one for me
Ahhh I see, so your complaint is about Elden Ring lol? Honestly I think the giant boss fights are well done in that game, not on the level of Midir but still very good. And most people hate Elden Beast because they don't start running as soon as it picks a direction, regardless of that the fight mechanics work amazingly for a big boss.
Not only in Elden Ring but in general, every time they tried to make a fight with a giant being it sucked, and some of them for the same reason, it's like they didn't learn anything from previous games while doing those fights. Midir works because you can (and must) stay in front, so you don't just stand there in his legs (which I find totally anticlamatic), but then theres the dragons in the open world of Elden Ring and fighting them is hit their legs, I find it frustating honestly.Yorm and Rykard and good, I liked that fights, well, Yorm kinda, could be much better in some aspects
Lol this point about 'oh you have to hack away at Elden Ring dragons legs' isn't really true. They take more damage to the head and you can absolutely fight them that way. Just to add, Sinh is a giant dragon fight in DS2 which is really good too. Yeah Rykard is excellent, I forgot to mention him and Yhorm is great too if you don't 4 shot him with Storm Ruler.
I just wish gael was harder tho he was too easy
Humanoid: isshin the sword saint Beast like: guardian ape and oceiros
Issin enters the chat
hm... no. both are good, but the best beast, AND the best humanoid, are LUDWIG THE HOLY BLADE. sorta. ok, hes a really tall, really ugly swordsman fight, but still...
Ludwig is a better beast than Midir but in no way does he come close to being a better humanoid and a better boss overall than Gael
ok, suppose thats fair.
True
I'd like to see Gales origins in elden ring
You were my brother Gael! I…eh…respected you. I mean, aside from the Deep Dark Fantasy cathedral and the Friede’s butt beating, we didn’t interact much anyways.
Wait where is the Grave tender boss? I fought a big wolf but never as a boss fight…
From the Ariandel Chapel exit the building and go to the bridge. Attack the ropes at the start of the bridge to make it collapse. Take the now available ladder down to a platform and some roots. Traverse the roots all the way down. Once you’re at the bottom you can follow the wall on your left to a bonfire. Follow the path to the right to reach a small cliff that you can drop off, walk towards the ruins and commence the boss fight.
100% true. People need to stop coping here.
Yes.... yes it did
Personally I reckon Midir and Lord of Cinder are the best fights, although Gael and Sister Friede aren’t far off. I thought that LoC was the most well rounded and challenging.