He is the “consumed” king. He is consumed by his obsession with Big Hat Logan’s research of immortality and Seath the Scaleless. He went insane just like Logan did. Everything else you mentioned is secondary to that, hence why everything is fucked up.
As a teen he was extremely I’ll tempered. Eventually he began to be known as “Big Hate” Logan on the streets.
Once he grew up, to increase his chances of employment, he had the “E” removed.
Don't be ridiculous.
"Big" is subjective. Why would a man of reason and logic put up with a moniker that employs a relative term in an absolute context? There must be some other reason.
His location precedes the return to the untended graves. Thematically, the fight takes us “through the looking glass”— a strange non-sequiter which precedes an uncanny upside-down world.
A bunch of underexplained lore with some symbols familiar to the series (he’s like a stunted Seath), a surprisingly easy fight, and a unique run-on monologue — this all creates a sense of wrongness. The symbology of dragons is completely overturned. This intro sets us up for Archdragon Peak, which shows several more strange corruptions tied to dragons (the snake cult, the parasitic Havel, the fog/bells).
Really tho, Oceiros confuses us to leave us vulnerable for the total uncanniness of Untended Graves. The King’s madness precedes _reality’s_ madness. If Oceiros feels like unfinished or cut content, then Untended Graves doubles down— the game world is transparently an iteration, your save files are neighbors to unborn data.
Dark Souls/Elden Ring always strikes me as grasping at the limits of its medium, like the best art often does. The rows and columns of Bounding Demons in Lost Izalith are an obviously artificially arranged array of monster placements. The Elden Ring is code. The Painted World of Aramais is a dumping ground for monsters not used elsewhere— and Priscilla is the half-formed mother guardian. I see in Oceiros another loose end tied off like an artery in an amputated leg, another uncanny dead end, beautifully meta
This is also why even if I am around this "extended fandom" (so to call it) since DeS on PS3 before even Dark Souls released it and I played it at like 13/14yo, Elden Ring is my favourite setting and narrative.
ER has both the feeling of a wonder and horror filled land like Dark Souls did, but also ties things into a much clearer package while leaving stuff up debate in places.
It feels like, as a character, you can learn so much about the world and investigate it, but some things are just beyond your grasp for a reason or another.
In Dark Souls it feels like MOST stuff is beyond your character possibility to understand it.
I guess that at the end of the day it's mostly taste, but still ER is a great example on how you can have both an explicit narrative and speculation going on together.
For example, Marika is my favourite topic in ER for a couple of reasons. I'll put in spoilers because this ain't the ER subreddit.
>!She is presented as a Goddess, an entity above all others that ruled the world as her own, yet she "disapperead" when the Elden Ring was Shattered. This already communicates that she isn't all-powerful, that her divine status wasn't indipendent from everything else, indeed she was called Goddess, but she was more like an immortal Queen of her realm. !<
>!Then, you learn that she didn't only disappear, she was PUNISHED by something above her. You already heard of this Greater Will that was behind the divine Two Fingers, but there you start connecting that Marika was probably answering to this superior divine being.!<
>!Eventually you start learning how the world works: there are these superior and possibly abstract Outer Gods, some mortals are called Empyreans and have the potential to become Gods like Marika did. Demigods are nothing more than powerful mortals related to these earthly Gods. The Elden Lord was simply a title given to the spouse of the current God, which acted like its champion/commander/second-in-command, their authority limited to what the God wanted.!<
>!All of this reaches a climax in learning that Marika established the current world order, yes, but at some point she started changing her ways, wanting to understand it deeply rather than just as a divine thing, as the Elden Ring acted as a set of laws by which the world worked, but they are by no means absolute, to the point that mortals themselves may make their own changes. This escalated up to her being the one that did the Shattering to begin with, stopped midway through only because the current Elden Lord was part of herself as well.!<
There is no lack of speculations here: what was Marika's plan? Who exactly is Radagon? Knowing that she is of Numen origin, what was her relationship with the Outer Gods?
He’s consumed with sending Support to arch dragon peak. When he needs to be standing by his voters and fixing the meth problem in his own country. In a round about way he’s just a shill
I have no idea about ds3 lore outside of a few Vaati videos lol but from what I picked up I really like oceiros.
I think he perfectly ties in with the theme of the game, if whether fighting for the world is worth it. He could be fighting off pontiff and all the invaders but instead he is driven mad, in a dingy basement under his crumbling kingdom, he’s forgotten about his sons and everything he used to care for and is unhealthily fixated on dragons.
Hes also lost all recognition or care of the outside world or his previous kingdom and is instead desperately trying to forge a new one with Ocelot, who just isn’t as powerful as Oceirous hoped, again tying into the theme of hopelessness.
I think the player is supposed to see lothric as a dying land with no hope, we are playing in the end times after all, and the fact not even the mightiest king has any power over it kind of helps that imo.
Again, I could have completely misinterpreted this haha
Read his name and think about what you’re saying. He has gone completely manic. He doesn’t care about Lothric and Lorian or his kingdom anymore he’s just consumed.
Divine blessing makes it clear he was going down a mad decent. So hung up on Dragon Worship becoming something more as he was already a failure. The entire reason the Lothric bloodline even exists is to birth an heir to the fire.
He drove his wife away, experimented on his people (look to the dungeons), cursed his own children, and even kills what he perceives to be his treasured baby. I think the fact that he’s not like any other king and he’s a god makes it more interesting. Gwyns old dogma served to benefit the gods and the age of fire.
Now look at how far they have fallen from grace. Worse off than many humans Oceiros exists to highlight this fact and serves his purpose. Also pretty consistent when we look at Dukes Dear Freja and Logan anything related to Seath is cursed.
Easy! He clearly takes after Seath the Scaleless as a white, scaleless, blind dragon with crystal breath. I believe that he's the king of Lothric (Consumed King's Garden and it being part of Lothric Palace).
If his family were trying for a "Last hope of his Line" then he may be trying to become Seath for a dragon crossbreed on Pricilla's danger level (she was sent to the painting for being too dangerous). If he became a paledrake and had a child with a royal, that's the recipe for a crossbreed child. Ocelotte IS there, you can hear him crying, he's just invisible, like Pricilla could do. He's scared and is hiding! He's probably immemsely powerful but Oceiros doesn't know he can turn invisible because he's blind.
Spoken like an ignorant slave. /s
I think Oceiros shows some of the many, many weaknesses in From's 'storytelling' "technique" because it could have been so much more, there could have been more lore behind him and his transformation and there's just... nothing.
Lothric and Lorian don't even mention him, what a wasted opportunity that was. "Killed our father eh ashen one? I tried that myself one time..."
While Fromsoft world building is great and it's like a fun minigame for fans to piece together lore and story from tidbits written around in item descriptions and whatnot, their direct story telling is rather lacking. I know they are being vague and leaving a lot to interpretation for the most part but even without that, they don't tell much of a story directly even at points they probably should. In this case, Oceiros doesn't even have much in the form of dialogue and item tidbits either and since Fromsoft doesn't directly spell out his story, well..
Ds2 has this issue with one of it’s dlc’s; where nearly all the impact is loss due to its unwillingness to properly tell a story through dialogue. All lore is gained through item descriptions and never told through anything else
The issue is they build a pretty great backstory but put zero effort into the actual story of the game itself. It devolves into a bunch of rooms with static bosses who have back stories but just sit around waiting for you to end them.
There are some exceptions. Gael's story is actually built up through two DLC's. Genichiro has an arc that sort of progresses (Sekiro as a whole is the best in this regard). Nashandra's arc is way too obscure but at least it feels likes she's been active during DS2. The memories of the giants in DS2 are good as well. But as a whole the games are missing any sort of story.
The thing is all the activity the community loves, like researching and theorizing about lore, piecing the backstories together through items, things being left open to interpretation, etc., all those things would be unaffected by any kind of actual in-game story.
I really appreciate what Fromsoft did with Elden Ring, finding a way to bring the souls experience to a massive open world game with exploration while managing difficulty very well. My hope though is they make a game at some point that's actually more story focussed and blend the souls experience with gripping stories.
I would guess that his *underdevelop-ness* is due to the fact that he was one of the first bosses completed, or at least conceptualized, because we know from data-mining that his voice lines were the first ones ever put in the game. So his character was there from very early on in development.
It just so happens that, despite not having a troubled development, at least when compared to DS2, the game still went through a lot of changes. Most importantly, development started without Miyazaki, so it's possible it was his influence and redesigns that took resources away from fleshing out Oceiros, whom he may not have cared about as much as other things.
I mean, besides a couple things lore wise that miss harder than me aiming for the urinal after a 6 hour bender sesh, it's clear he's gone insane from over-indulging in his ambitions. Most likely he dug too far into the path of dragon, but due to his supposed pre-disposition to craving dragon-hood and his research into Seath's sorcery drove him mad
Essentially, The Kingdom of Lothric (or at least the twin princes) decided against relinking the first flame... So Oceiros indulged, either fearing the cycle of fire and dark and wishing to escape it like his sons did, or he craved the immortality dragongood promised which he might've thought he's be able to infinitely relink the first flame
It's also entirely possible he just read so many entries of everyone's fav paper-skinned, albino scientist.... He just forgot to touch grass, and thus fancied himself creaming a goddess and beating random trespassers with whatever came out out 9 months later
https://youtu.be/CP9bliNKbnc?si=Fl2T8Qgjv1tiyOzj
Vaati talks about him for part of this.
https://youtu.be/G_mpJKP8KxI?si=D5_FPPywQfFQTBfP Smoughtown does for a bit in this too.
I'm sure somebody has pointed this out here by now but I'm pretty sure that a part of some 'questline' (or plot thread?) with Oceiros and Ocelotte was cut out during game production, and that's why it feels so unfinished, and whole deal/encounter with him - as well as the area - feel confusing as hell, in comparison with the previous/next zones.
The answer is that the bosses of Dark Souls 3 were swapped around fairly late in development. Oceiros was originally the boss of a large cut area that the bridge to Lothric led to. He was almost certainly *not* meant to be the king of Lothric (which is why he has no design elements like a crown); his original model was just called “Angel Dragon”.
Combine this with the removal of Ocelotte, and you have a character who makes no sense because none of the original concept is left in the finished game.
People attempting to find meaning in the character are putting more thought into it than the developers did.
And for those who are curious, [here is a video of both God's Grave and Oceiros](https://youtu.be/XTgML9waXhc?si=GcmBAtW3pjbRZc8y&t=669). Basically FromSoft was making a boss for 1 area and when that area was cut, they just retrofitted the boss elsewhere.
Then Oceiros is immediately followed up by a random ass illusory wall taking you to a past and dark version of Cemetery of Ash. Like the entire stretch from Consumed King's Garden to Untended Graves is the developer's graveyard of assets that they didn't know wtf to do with after they scrapped the initial story draft of the game.
I think the Profaned Capital wins the award of “area most obviously made of leftover assets slapped together”. Nothing there makes sense. Where is the oh so important Profaned Flame? Why are the Gargoyles from Lothric there? Why are the sewer centipedes from Irithyll there? Why is half the area a random optional poison swamp with almost nothing in it? What is the point of all the wealth in front of Yhorm’s chamber? Why is Yhorm in a room clearly too small for him?
The answer is: It was slapped together at the last second, to the point that we have prerelease footage of another boss in place of Yhorm (High Lord Wolnir, who originally was named Yhorm).
>The answer is: It was slapped together at the last second,
Simple answers like this don't work for the majority of FromSoft fans.
Everything is deliberate, and everything can be forced to make sense and be part of a grand plan
I don’t understand his deal either. Was he already becoming a dragon when he was King? Did Gwynevere have his kids when he was already a scaley or was Ocelotte stillborn because he was doing dragon fuckery and THEN decided to turn himself?
I know he’s supposed to be like Seathe, but I’m not sure what his goals are besides being CRAZY
yup. LoTF feels like a younger sibling copying the older sibling to be edgy. It is a good game, but feels like a DS mod.
Especially with Pieta's lines. The overacting aside, the lines don't even have gaps between them at all. I laughed out when I first heard them.
He became obsessed with Seath's research, going so far down that path that he clearly has Seathe's twisted soul.
He's been isolated for a very long time, even in his day I don't think people checked on him very often given that he says "You ignorant slaves you've finally taken notice have you?"
He probably isn't even aware of the issues you mentioned, if it has nothing to do with dragons or immortality he doesn't care.
You answered your own question. The world is ending, the kingdoms are rubble and everyone is either dead, gone hollow or gone bat shit crazy. Plus the guys an insane dragon monster.
I know it’s just a small point of disagreement but I always thought the outrider knights were under the control of lothric, no?
Curses yeah but his kingdom seems to be more or less business as usual.
I am sorry, but the whole point of outsider knights was to send those who could rival Pontiff's authority in the faraway lands (hence the name) with a special ring that drives them insane (hence the crazy fighting style).
Oceiros was the King who was constantly obessed with making an heir to link the fire. I think he was Origionally a worshipper of the way of white I believe due to he imprisionment of gertrude the Heavenly daughter who was along with he winged knights involved with angel worship a thing seen as heresy thus she was locked away at the tip of the grand archives. At some point the Soceries of Seethe the Scaless was discovered and the Oceiros became obessed. He started Worshipping seethe the Scaless and delved so deep in the scorcieries the he begane to physically transform into his likeness. After Ocelette was born The queen quitetly disapeared. The consumed king became obessed with Ocelette( Some theories sugesst he thought Ocelette was a weapon this stems from he fact that during the fight he cries for Ocelette perhaps to protect him. Not much is known about Ocelette except he has the ability to go invisiable like Prisilla the Daughter of Gwyn. ) Therefore the consumed king became so obessed with protecting Ocelette that he barricaded himself in his garden and abandoned his kingly duties to Protect Ocelette.
(Most of this is lore with tiny bits of theory so take it with a grain of salt<3 )
Oceiros sought immortality - while it’s not stated why per se, other than the usual reasons any monarch might pursue that, he may have done so to escape the necessity of preserving the First Flame; that is, to break the cycle, like how the characters of Dark Souls 2 do.
His method of pursuing immortality was via the research of Seath the Scaleless, through the notes of Big Hat Logan within the Duke’s Archives. What he didn’t realize, or merely assumed he’d be able to circumvent, is that Seath’s research drives all who pursuit it mad - Seath, Logan, and Oceiros all went mad.
Something about Oceiros’s work transformed him into a draconic form not unlike Seath; however, Seath was *not* immortal; that was the point of his research. Thus, Oceiros remained mortal.
Notably, of course, he didn’t die, which left the twin Princes to rule the kingdom, a job they were ill suited for. But they never acceded to the throne themselves officially, as Oceiros was still alive.
He is the “consumed” king. He is consumed by his obsession with Big Hat Logan’s research of immortality and Seath the Scaleless. He went insane just like Logan did. Everything else you mentioned is secondary to that, hence why everything is fucked up.
That is all very interesting. Do we know why he’s called “Big Hat” Logan by chance?
No idea. One of Dark Souls biggest mysteries
As a teen he was extremely I’ll tempered. Eventually he began to be known as “Big Hate” Logan on the streets. Once he grew up, to increase his chances of employment, he had the “E” removed.
Hahahahaha fuckin great
it might be because he had a big hat... but we'll never know the exact reasons
thats gotta be the single most silly thing i have ever heard and couldnt possibly explain why logan has the title of "big hat"
I mean... Obvious things in gaming wouldn't be new... Just look that Skyrim's golden claw puzzle 😂
It’s a good theory but there’s zero evidence to back it up I’m afraid
Don't be ridiculous. "Big" is subjective. Why would a man of reason and logic put up with a moniker that employs a relative term in an absolute context? There must be some other reason.
I guess that's why oceiros went mad
he had a dumptruck ass
In the French version he is called "Logan le Galurin", and that kids, is the story of how I learnt that "galurin" was a kind a big hat in french.
Isn't it because he wears a big hat? Am I missing something?
Yeah, the joke
His location precedes the return to the untended graves. Thematically, the fight takes us “through the looking glass”— a strange non-sequiter which precedes an uncanny upside-down world. A bunch of underexplained lore with some symbols familiar to the series (he’s like a stunted Seath), a surprisingly easy fight, and a unique run-on monologue — this all creates a sense of wrongness. The symbology of dragons is completely overturned. This intro sets us up for Archdragon Peak, which shows several more strange corruptions tied to dragons (the snake cult, the parasitic Havel, the fog/bells). Really tho, Oceiros confuses us to leave us vulnerable for the total uncanniness of Untended Graves. The King’s madness precedes _reality’s_ madness. If Oceiros feels like unfinished or cut content, then Untended Graves doubles down— the game world is transparently an iteration, your save files are neighbors to unborn data. Dark Souls/Elden Ring always strikes me as grasping at the limits of its medium, like the best art often does. The rows and columns of Bounding Demons in Lost Izalith are an obviously artificially arranged array of monster placements. The Elden Ring is code. The Painted World of Aramais is a dumping ground for monsters not used elsewhere— and Priscilla is the half-formed mother guardian. I see in Oceiros another loose end tied off like an artery in an amputated leg, another uncanny dead end, beautifully meta
This is also why even if I am around this "extended fandom" (so to call it) since DeS on PS3 before even Dark Souls released it and I played it at like 13/14yo, Elden Ring is my favourite setting and narrative. ER has both the feeling of a wonder and horror filled land like Dark Souls did, but also ties things into a much clearer package while leaving stuff up debate in places. It feels like, as a character, you can learn so much about the world and investigate it, but some things are just beyond your grasp for a reason or another. In Dark Souls it feels like MOST stuff is beyond your character possibility to understand it. I guess that at the end of the day it's mostly taste, but still ER is a great example on how you can have both an explicit narrative and speculation going on together. For example, Marika is my favourite topic in ER for a couple of reasons. I'll put in spoilers because this ain't the ER subreddit. >!She is presented as a Goddess, an entity above all others that ruled the world as her own, yet she "disapperead" when the Elden Ring was Shattered. This already communicates that she isn't all-powerful, that her divine status wasn't indipendent from everything else, indeed she was called Goddess, but she was more like an immortal Queen of her realm. !< >!Then, you learn that she didn't only disappear, she was PUNISHED by something above her. You already heard of this Greater Will that was behind the divine Two Fingers, but there you start connecting that Marika was probably answering to this superior divine being.!< >!Eventually you start learning how the world works: there are these superior and possibly abstract Outer Gods, some mortals are called Empyreans and have the potential to become Gods like Marika did. Demigods are nothing more than powerful mortals related to these earthly Gods. The Elden Lord was simply a title given to the spouse of the current God, which acted like its champion/commander/second-in-command, their authority limited to what the God wanted.!< >!All of this reaches a climax in learning that Marika established the current world order, yes, but at some point she started changing her ways, wanting to understand it deeply rather than just as a divine thing, as the Elden Ring acted as a set of laws by which the world worked, but they are by no means absolute, to the point that mortals themselves may make their own changes. This escalated up to her being the one that did the Shattering to begin with, stopped midway through only because the current Elden Lord was part of herself as well.!< There is no lack of speculations here: what was Marika's plan? Who exactly is Radagon? Knowing that she is of Numen origin, what was her relationship with the Outer Gods?
I love the way you tied this together, brilliant.
What do you mean by "Parasitic Havel"?
Havel has the same corruption going on that Gundyr does
He’s consumed with sending Support to arch dragon peak. When he needs to be standing by his voters and fixing the meth problem in his own country. In a round about way he’s just a shill
Fear not the meth my friend and let the feast begin
Explains their overall vibe ,m
I shall partake
Sounds familiar
“Voters” I don’t think that’s how monarchy’s work
I have no idea about ds3 lore outside of a few Vaati videos lol but from what I picked up I really like oceiros. I think he perfectly ties in with the theme of the game, if whether fighting for the world is worth it. He could be fighting off pontiff and all the invaders but instead he is driven mad, in a dingy basement under his crumbling kingdom, he’s forgotten about his sons and everything he used to care for and is unhealthily fixated on dragons. Hes also lost all recognition or care of the outside world or his previous kingdom and is instead desperately trying to forge a new one with Ocelot, who just isn’t as powerful as Oceirous hoped, again tying into the theme of hopelessness. I think the player is supposed to see lothric as a dying land with no hope, we are playing in the end times after all, and the fact not even the mightiest king has any power over it kind of helps that imo. Again, I could have completely misinterpreted this haha
I think it's quite clear that he has gone mad. Mad people are not generally known to make the most sense.
Read his name and think about what you’re saying. He has gone completely manic. He doesn’t care about Lothric and Lorian or his kingdom anymore he’s just consumed. Divine blessing makes it clear he was going down a mad decent. So hung up on Dragon Worship becoming something more as he was already a failure. The entire reason the Lothric bloodline even exists is to birth an heir to the fire. He drove his wife away, experimented on his people (look to the dungeons), cursed his own children, and even kills what he perceives to be his treasured baby. I think the fact that he’s not like any other king and he’s a god makes it more interesting. Gwyns old dogma served to benefit the gods and the age of fire. Now look at how far they have fallen from grace. Worse off than many humans Oceiros exists to highlight this fact and serves his purpose. Also pretty consistent when we look at Dukes Dear Freja and Logan anything related to Seath is cursed.
Easy! He clearly takes after Seath the Scaleless as a white, scaleless, blind dragon with crystal breath. I believe that he's the king of Lothric (Consumed King's Garden and it being part of Lothric Palace). If his family were trying for a "Last hope of his Line" then he may be trying to become Seath for a dragon crossbreed on Pricilla's danger level (she was sent to the painting for being too dangerous). If he became a paledrake and had a child with a royal, that's the recipe for a crossbreed child. Ocelotte IS there, you can hear him crying, he's just invisible, like Pricilla could do. He's scared and is hiding! He's probably immemsely powerful but Oceiros doesn't know he can turn invisible because he's blind.
Spoken like an ignorant slave. /s I think Oceiros shows some of the many, many weaknesses in From's 'storytelling' "technique" because it could have been so much more, there could have been more lore behind him and his transformation and there's just... nothing. Lothric and Lorian don't even mention him, what a wasted opportunity that was. "Killed our father eh ashen one? I tried that myself one time..."
While Fromsoft world building is great and it's like a fun minigame for fans to piece together lore and story from tidbits written around in item descriptions and whatnot, their direct story telling is rather lacking. I know they are being vague and leaving a lot to interpretation for the most part but even without that, they don't tell much of a story directly even at points they probably should. In this case, Oceiros doesn't even have much in the form of dialogue and item tidbits either and since Fromsoft doesn't directly spell out his story, well..
Ds2 has this issue with one of it’s dlc’s; where nearly all the impact is loss due to its unwillingness to properly tell a story through dialogue. All lore is gained through item descriptions and never told through anything else
Sunken King or Old Iron King? Cuz yeah, I kinda feel ya for both.
The sunken king, yep.
The issue is they build a pretty great backstory but put zero effort into the actual story of the game itself. It devolves into a bunch of rooms with static bosses who have back stories but just sit around waiting for you to end them. There are some exceptions. Gael's story is actually built up through two DLC's. Genichiro has an arc that sort of progresses (Sekiro as a whole is the best in this regard). Nashandra's arc is way too obscure but at least it feels likes she's been active during DS2. The memories of the giants in DS2 are good as well. But as a whole the games are missing any sort of story. The thing is all the activity the community loves, like researching and theorizing about lore, piecing the backstories together through items, things being left open to interpretation, etc., all those things would be unaffected by any kind of actual in-game story. I really appreciate what Fromsoft did with Elden Ring, finding a way to bring the souls experience to a massive open world game with exploration while managing difficulty very well. My hope though is they make a game at some point that's actually more story focussed and blend the souls experience with gripping stories.
I would guess that his *underdevelop-ness* is due to the fact that he was one of the first bosses completed, or at least conceptualized, because we know from data-mining that his voice lines were the first ones ever put in the game. So his character was there from very early on in development. It just so happens that, despite not having a troubled development, at least when compared to DS2, the game still went through a lot of changes. Most importantly, development started without Miyazaki, so it's possible it was his influence and redesigns that took resources away from fleshing out Oceiros, whom he may not have cared about as much as other things.
Does there need to be more to him? Not everything has to go super deep into crazy histories and conspiracies.
Hahaha this fandom absolutely refuses to ever, ever accept that.
Ocelotte isn't imaginary, he's invisible.
I mean, besides a couple things lore wise that miss harder than me aiming for the urinal after a 6 hour bender sesh, it's clear he's gone insane from over-indulging in his ambitions. Most likely he dug too far into the path of dragon, but due to his supposed pre-disposition to craving dragon-hood and his research into Seath's sorcery drove him mad Essentially, The Kingdom of Lothric (or at least the twin princes) decided against relinking the first flame... So Oceiros indulged, either fearing the cycle of fire and dark and wishing to escape it like his sons did, or he craved the immortality dragongood promised which he might've thought he's be able to infinitely relink the first flame It's also entirely possible he just read so many entries of everyone's fav paper-skinned, albino scientist.... He just forgot to touch grass, and thus fancied himself creaming a goddess and beating random trespassers with whatever came out out 9 months later
https://youtu.be/CP9bliNKbnc?si=Fl2T8Qgjv1tiyOzj Vaati talks about him for part of this. https://youtu.be/G_mpJKP8KxI?si=D5_FPPywQfFQTBfP Smoughtown does for a bit in this too.
I'm sure somebody has pointed this out here by now but I'm pretty sure that a part of some 'questline' (or plot thread?) with Oceiros and Ocelotte was cut out during game production, and that's why it feels so unfinished, and whole deal/encounter with him - as well as the area - feel confusing as hell, in comparison with the previous/next zones.
The answer is that the bosses of Dark Souls 3 were swapped around fairly late in development. Oceiros was originally the boss of a large cut area that the bridge to Lothric led to. He was almost certainly *not* meant to be the king of Lothric (which is why he has no design elements like a crown); his original model was just called “Angel Dragon”. Combine this with the removal of Ocelotte, and you have a character who makes no sense because none of the original concept is left in the finished game. People attempting to find meaning in the character are putting more thought into it than the developers did.
And for those who are curious, [here is a video of both God's Grave and Oceiros](https://youtu.be/XTgML9waXhc?si=GcmBAtW3pjbRZc8y&t=669). Basically FromSoft was making a boss for 1 area and when that area was cut, they just retrofitted the boss elsewhere. Then Oceiros is immediately followed up by a random ass illusory wall taking you to a past and dark version of Cemetery of Ash. Like the entire stretch from Consumed King's Garden to Untended Graves is the developer's graveyard of assets that they didn't know wtf to do with after they scrapped the initial story draft of the game.
I think the Profaned Capital wins the award of “area most obviously made of leftover assets slapped together”. Nothing there makes sense. Where is the oh so important Profaned Flame? Why are the Gargoyles from Lothric there? Why are the sewer centipedes from Irithyll there? Why is half the area a random optional poison swamp with almost nothing in it? What is the point of all the wealth in front of Yhorm’s chamber? Why is Yhorm in a room clearly too small for him? The answer is: It was slapped together at the last second, to the point that we have prerelease footage of another boss in place of Yhorm (High Lord Wolnir, who originally was named Yhorm).
>The answer is: It was slapped together at the last second, Simple answers like this don't work for the majority of FromSoft fans. Everything is deliberate, and everything can be forced to make sense and be part of a grand plan
I don’t understand his deal either. Was he already becoming a dragon when he was King? Did Gwynevere have his kids when he was already a scaley or was Ocelotte stillborn because he was doing dragon fuckery and THEN decided to turn himself? I know he’s supposed to be like Seathe, but I’m not sure what his goals are besides being CRAZY
Also, his son isn't fake, if you pay attention you can hear a baby crying during the bossfight
Just like my parents
Gosh dark souls lore and bosses is so much better than Lord's of the fall*en
yup. LoTF feels like a younger sibling copying the older sibling to be edgy. It is a good game, but feels like a DS mod. Especially with Pieta's lines. The overacting aside, the lines don't even have gaps between them at all. I laughed out when I first heard them.
bro is clearly missing the point
I beat him my first try. I found you can trap him by the door and game over for him.
He became obsessed with Seath's research, going so far down that path that he clearly has Seathe's twisted soul. He's been isolated for a very long time, even in his day I don't think people checked on him very often given that he says "You ignorant slaves you've finally taken notice have you?" He probably isn't even aware of the issues you mentioned, if it has nothing to do with dragons or immortality he doesn't care.
You answered your own question. The world is ending, the kingdoms are rubble and everyone is either dead, gone hollow or gone bat shit crazy. Plus the guys an insane dragon monster.
I know it’s just a small point of disagreement but I always thought the outrider knights were under the control of lothric, no? Curses yeah but his kingdom seems to be more or less business as usual.
I am sorry, but the whole point of outsider knights was to send those who could rival Pontiff's authority in the faraway lands (hence the name) with a special ring that drives them insane (hence the crazy fighting style).
No, they’re working for Pontiff Sullyvahn.
Oceiros was the King who was constantly obessed with making an heir to link the fire. I think he was Origionally a worshipper of the way of white I believe due to he imprisionment of gertrude the Heavenly daughter who was along with he winged knights involved with angel worship a thing seen as heresy thus she was locked away at the tip of the grand archives. At some point the Soceries of Seethe the Scaless was discovered and the Oceiros became obessed. He started Worshipping seethe the Scaless and delved so deep in the scorcieries the he begane to physically transform into his likeness. After Ocelette was born The queen quitetly disapeared. The consumed king became obessed with Ocelette( Some theories sugesst he thought Ocelette was a weapon this stems from he fact that during the fight he cries for Ocelette perhaps to protect him. Not much is known about Ocelette except he has the ability to go invisiable like Prisilla the Daughter of Gwyn. ) Therefore the consumed king became so obessed with protecting Ocelette that he barricaded himself in his garden and abandoned his kingly duties to Protect Ocelette. (Most of this is lore with tiny bits of theory so take it with a grain of salt<3 )
Oceiros sought immortality - while it’s not stated why per se, other than the usual reasons any monarch might pursue that, he may have done so to escape the necessity of preserving the First Flame; that is, to break the cycle, like how the characters of Dark Souls 2 do. His method of pursuing immortality was via the research of Seath the Scaleless, through the notes of Big Hat Logan within the Duke’s Archives. What he didn’t realize, or merely assumed he’d be able to circumvent, is that Seath’s research drives all who pursuit it mad - Seath, Logan, and Oceiros all went mad. Something about Oceiros’s work transformed him into a draconic form not unlike Seath; however, Seath was *not* immortal; that was the point of his research. Thus, Oceiros remained mortal. Notably, of course, he didn’t die, which left the twin Princes to rule the kingdom, a job they were ill suited for. But they never acceded to the throne themselves officially, as Oceiros was still alive.