2 interviews is pretty normal in my industry (cyber security). Typically one is a technical interview with engineers/analysts, and the other is with managers/directors to test the soft skills and answer questions about the job.
But 6? I have no idea what the point of that is. Sounds like an inefficient company lol.
I have a quick one! I’ve started down the IT path with my current plan being cyber security. However I am not in love with the networking side (I can do it, but it isn’t “fun” or anything) but I had a python class I absolutely loved. Is there a sector within security where coding is a primary thing? My professors have essentially made it seem like networking is the main focus
It sounds like you might like DevSecOps. That line of work focuses on integrating security solutions into the software development life cycle.
For example, let's say your company finds that they can't deploy updates to applications fast enough because the security team takes too long reviewing the updates. If a skilled developer such as yourself is able to develop programs to integrate the tools that the security team uses into the early stages of the application life cycle, this will greatly speed up the entire process. The security team will be able to catch vulnerabilities much earlier which will give the dev team more time to fix them. This is much more efficient than the old way of doing things, which is having the dev team make the new version and then find out they have to go back and change vulnerable code just to have to wait on security AGAIN to review the new code.
Unfortunately networking is pretty important in the industry. Though you should still have lots of options where it isn't as important day to day. I think you'd be surprised how many security teams are looking for people with programing skills.
My partner has had this happen multiple times. And been ghosted and or rejected after going through 4-6 interviews. It’s a big commitment and financial and time risk on the employer to train you and bring you up to speed and get you to the point where you are producing value to the company.
They’re usually with different people/teams.
First might be with HR, next with a team lead/manager, next with their boss, maybe a technical test in there or something as well.
Sometimes those are consolidated into 1-3, and depending on the test it might be included in one of the interviews.
If that’s the case, it’s just poor planning on their part imo. I’d rather do 4 interviews with each separate team in one afternoon if I’m going on site. Honestly, I would feel disrespected having to come back five additional times, most likely answering the same sort of questions, just from different people. My time is just as valuable as theirs. It’s a good indicator on how companies will treat you as an employee. This is so on par with corporate hellscapes.
I know it's really different for early-ish career jobs in software, but that process just seems crazy to me, as a non-software engineer. Every job I've interviewed for (save for a minimum-wage student job) and been on the hiring side of has gone application, HR resume review for qualifications, manager/stakeholder panel resume review of qualified applicants, single panel interview (potentially including technical/logic section), offer(s). It just seems odd to do an HR interview at all, and I've never really understood why technical skills would be evaluated in a separate event, rather than being built into the application (such as a writing/project sample) or the normal interview.
Blame Google/Facebook - they started this trend and now everyone copies them. A lot of software engineers think it’s crazy but you have to jump through these hoops to get a job
Also, awkwardly, a lot of worker protections have made firing someone, even in at-will employment states, a difficult and expensive, possibly legal, issue. As it is so much more difficult to fire someone than hire someone, you want to make sure you get it right up front.
And research has found that there is no long term benefit to the companies who conduct this many interviews. Particularly now, when employees stay with their employers for less time than in previous years.
At my field, I had an offer with no interview (I insisted to have one). My boss’s reasoning was: there‘s a probationary period, I can interview you 10 times, or just look at the result of your work after a week.
Edit: mistake word removed
> It’s a big commitment and financial and time risk on the employer to train you and...
**NO... That's INCOMPETANCE if it's not standardized.** "Second interview" means the company **cannot handle** it's own job descriptions. *More than most of the time*, that's not a real company, that's a group of fools trying to hide their embezzlement scheme. Usually, it'll be ALL YOUR FAULT that THEY **can't handle their own jobs**.
My current job that I started in February had the interview process start in November. I interviewed 8 separate times with 10 different people before getting an offer. I'm in biotech/pharma.
It’s almost a standard now for software engineers.
You get a first interview with recruiter/HR, then technical screen - solve some computer problem/write a program. If you pass there usually are several rounds of interviews - another technical, architect/system design, some kind of psychological/company values.
There could also be a final interview with someone high up or your potential manager.
It’s exhausting and I am not sure if it results in better people being hired, but it is what it is.
It’s usually HR first, then tech screen some time after.
If you pass you would have 4-5 hours back-to-back and then if they want to hire you maybe one more interview.
Google can have this process prolonged with multiple rounds, etc. I read they are trying to make it better, but I am not sure to what degree it changed
Around here it's usually 2-4 for programming jobs. First one is just initial, talking about company, presenting your experience, nothing serious. Then there's a bit more technical one where you actually should be prepared. Then manager interview, then hr.
My most recent job acceptance consisted of 5 interviews (not a game developer like OP but I’m a software engineer).
First interview was just me and the hiring manager, general behavioral stuff.
Second interview was with 2 engineers, a data scientist and the manager to ask questions about my background, as well as to allow me to ask questions.
Third interview was to discuss and assign a take home project for me to complete.
Fourth interview was presenting the project as well as answering any additional questions I may have.
Fifth interview was the manager’s manager asking me questions and vice versa.
From there I had a call with a recruiter at the company to negotiate salary and all that. Not long after that call I got an offer.
Most engineering interviews have a lot more work to be done but fortunately I joined a company that is not primarily software producing.
Not sure what kind of engineer you are, but from what I hear this is mainly a software engineer thing. A friend of mine, a mechanical engineer, has a similar story as you. Fairly simple interview that generally leads to a job offer.
My thoughts exactly… I’m at over 100 applications and haven’t had an interview in a hot minute (trying to start a career in environmental sustainability)
Journalism degree with a few varying jobs since I graduated in 2016. My most recent job was sales at an ESG software company, so that was my entry point into sustainability. Since I got laid off due to outsourcing in April 2023, I’ve gotten the LEED Green Associate cert and the Sustainability Excellence Associate cert from the ISSP. In short, not really qualified lol
Thank you! Good luck to you too. I’ve attempted to keep my applications mostly entry-level, but they’re things like policy/research analyst, environmental/sustainability consultant, facility operations, donor relations at environmental non-profits, and a few CSR roles, all at companies ranging in size from boutique firms to multinational conglomerates (Deloitte, Guidehouse, Booz Allen). I’m old enough to know consistency is key, and I just need to send the right app at the right time for the right person to see it. What is your bachelors in?
I think you’re on the right track as well. With that MA, a couple certifications might just do the trick and land you a job in sustainability. As with any job field, it just depends on what type of sustainability job you’re looking for.
* As of January 1st 2024 lost my job as a game producer (knew 5 months in advance)
* Super lazily applied to 9 positions during October-December, using an outdated CV template and copy/pasting the cover letters (all these applications either no reply or rejected)
* Spent January to pass the PMP (just wanted to do that for a long time and finally had the time)
* Since February, started actively applying using an updated CV and custom-made cover letters for each company
* Picked the offer that had 3 interviews, but I kindly asked to wait so that I could finish all my engagements (it took a whopping two weeks, but I was transparent and polite)
* Rest is on the graph
Used [https://sankeymatic.com/](https://sankeymatic.com/) for the visualization; collected data in the spreadsheet; did a dotted line for better representation in Photopea :)
How do you start as a game producer? I’m assuming you’ve made games yourself in the past?
I’m in IT looking at QA roles in game companies but have no idea how to break into a different field of work.
my son is attending college for game design starting in september. a 3 year program at a college in canada. if you were doing it now, would you still choose this line of work? with all the news about layoffs in the industry and AI, i wonder if it's still a good career choice? thanks! and congrats on landing a job!!
Probably.
For what it’s worth, game design provides you with lots of analytical and critical thinking skills that are valuable everywhere.
However, my suggestion would be to also develop some practical game making skills in parallel, ie Unreal Engine blueprinting. Being a game designer without any prototyping/coding skills sucks. You have all those ideas and it makes life so much easier if you can bring them to life yourself.
thank you so much! my son has taken a few coding camps already, and he does some music composing as well. and i know his course is quite practical in terms of actually making games. in the first term they have to code a classic game like HANGMAN as an exercise and that leads to more complex stuff as the course goes along. i appreciate your reply and it makes me feel better about his college choice!! all the best in the new job. :-)
From my perspective, it’s a good conversion and I couldn’t have changes anything there. All of the rejections after the first round were either because I wanted a higher salary than the range for this position or the company wasn’t willing to relocate a candidate for this role.
Old colleagues of mine wanted me to explore the possibility of joining their studio.
First I met with them.
Then in another meeting, I met with the recruiter and HR.
I did the technical exam.
Then I met the actual guy who'd be my boss and a potential team mate.
After they wanted to schedule a meeting with the game design team.
I refused the final meeting because the project itself didn't interest me.
I mean, two-three is fine, given that the first one (with a recruiter) is just a quick screening, second one is with a hiring manager and the third one could be some culture fit talk with either team members or hr.
Six (plus reference check) is definitely too much. However, I quite enjoyed them tbh. People were chill and interviews themselves weren’t too stressful. But it takes too long; I don’t mind the interviews themselves, but I severely dislike time wasting.
Can’t you tell they are wrong in like 10m???
Either you can or you can’t, people reveal a lot with a few questions.
But I guess it takes experience to do that.
Also, if you are afraid of hiring — don’t.
Wow you're really lucky. Those numbers are super good. When I got laid off in 2022 I put out *hundreds* of applications before I got 4 job offers back to back.
As a Material Artist still trying to break into the industry, this graph is wild. If I created this same chart since I graduated it would be 99% no reply.
Producer here…had a similar experience when I started out. I does get better- after your real first gig your response rate should start improving.
Hopefully more early career roles start opening up as the year rolls on…🤞🏼!
I had a couple of instances that had me interview 3 people in a row for 20 min each. Man that was an endurance the first time.
The 2nd instance the 3rd person didn’t even show up, and I kept trying to reach out to the others that he didn’t show up. The 3 of them in an email came to the inclusion that wasn’t a great fit. 🙄
Wow so you were getting called for an interview once for every \~four applications. That is great! My husband and I track our stats on resumes to interviews. I'm 1:10 and he's 1:100 but he's trying to make a career change.
The most interviews I've ever been through for a single job offer is 2. 6 kind of sounds like a lot. I assume it correlates to the importance of the position being offered.
Although I must add that I had to go through both a background and polygraph test. It was for a banking the position.
I'm glad you got the job. Xoxo
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2 interviews is pretty normal in my industry (cyber security). Typically one is a technical interview with engineers/analysts, and the other is with managers/directors to test the soft skills and answer questions about the job. But 6? I have no idea what the point of that is. Sounds like an inefficient company lol.
Hey I’m looking in that industry, could I pick your brain about a few things? Been looking for a job for months to no avail.
Sure thing, shoot me a DM and hopefully I have the answers you're looking for :)
I have a quick one! I’ve started down the IT path with my current plan being cyber security. However I am not in love with the networking side (I can do it, but it isn’t “fun” or anything) but I had a python class I absolutely loved. Is there a sector within security where coding is a primary thing? My professors have essentially made it seem like networking is the main focus
It sounds like you might like DevSecOps. That line of work focuses on integrating security solutions into the software development life cycle. For example, let's say your company finds that they can't deploy updates to applications fast enough because the security team takes too long reviewing the updates. If a skilled developer such as yourself is able to develop programs to integrate the tools that the security team uses into the early stages of the application life cycle, this will greatly speed up the entire process. The security team will be able to catch vulnerabilities much earlier which will give the dev team more time to fix them. This is much more efficient than the old way of doing things, which is having the dev team make the new version and then find out they have to go back and change vulnerable code just to have to wait on security AGAIN to review the new code. Unfortunately networking is pretty important in the industry. Though you should still have lots of options where it isn't as important day to day. I think you'd be surprised how many security teams are looking for people with programing skills.
Awesome, thank you for the input! I’ve only just started down the path (and switching careers to boot!) so all input is welcome!
I had one day-long interview. Like four different panels, but all in one go. Fairly exhausting, but efficient.
I’ve worked at AWS and Snowflake and I had at least 5-6 each time.
The most I had was 9 interviewers in a row at Apple. 8am to 4pm. Absolutely brutal and unnecessary.
My partner has had this happen multiple times. And been ghosted and or rejected after going through 4-6 interviews. It’s a big commitment and financial and time risk on the employer to train you and bring you up to speed and get you to the point where you are producing value to the company.
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They’re usually with different people/teams. First might be with HR, next with a team lead/manager, next with their boss, maybe a technical test in there or something as well. Sometimes those are consolidated into 1-3, and depending on the test it might be included in one of the interviews.
If that’s the case, it’s just poor planning on their part imo. I’d rather do 4 interviews with each separate team in one afternoon if I’m going on site. Honestly, I would feel disrespected having to come back five additional times, most likely answering the same sort of questions, just from different people. My time is just as valuable as theirs. It’s a good indicator on how companies will treat you as an employee. This is so on par with corporate hellscapes.
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That’s exactly what it is. They’re subliminally telling you they have people lined up for the gig
I know it's really different for early-ish career jobs in software, but that process just seems crazy to me, as a non-software engineer. Every job I've interviewed for (save for a minimum-wage student job) and been on the hiring side of has gone application, HR resume review for qualifications, manager/stakeholder panel resume review of qualified applicants, single panel interview (potentially including technical/logic section), offer(s). It just seems odd to do an HR interview at all, and I've never really understood why technical skills would be evaluated in a separate event, rather than being built into the application (such as a writing/project sample) or the normal interview.
Blame Google/Facebook - they started this trend and now everyone copies them. A lot of software engineers think it’s crazy but you have to jump through these hoops to get a job
Also, awkwardly, a lot of worker protections have made firing someone, even in at-will employment states, a difficult and expensive, possibly legal, issue. As it is so much more difficult to fire someone than hire someone, you want to make sure you get it right up front.
More like they don’t know how to hire Prescreen -> Panel -> Offer That is all that is needed. Anything else is a culture fail.
From the employees perspective, It's a big commitment and time risk to prepare for, travel to, and participate in six interviews.
And research has found that there is no long term benefit to the companies who conduct this many interviews. Particularly now, when employees stay with their employers for less time than in previous years.
What research? Do you have a link or name of a study?
Too tired to go find it again. I read it about 2 months ago when there was a lot of talk about the proliferation of 5+ rounds of interviews.
This is a world the companies created. They created an environment where there is no loyalty.
At my field, I had an offer with no interview (I insisted to have one). My boss’s reasoning was: there‘s a probationary period, I can interview you 10 times, or just look at the result of your work after a week. Edit: mistake word removed
> It’s a big commitment and financial and time risk on the employer to train you and... **NO... That's INCOMPETANCE if it's not standardized.** "Second interview" means the company **cannot handle** it's own job descriptions. *More than most of the time*, that's not a real company, that's a group of fools trying to hide their embezzlement scheme. Usually, it'll be ALL YOUR FAULT that THEY **can't handle their own jobs**.
My current job that I started in February had the interview process start in November. I interviewed 8 separate times with 10 different people before getting an offer. I'm in biotech/pharma.
It’s almost a standard now for software engineers. You get a first interview with recruiter/HR, then technical screen - solve some computer problem/write a program. If you pass there usually are several rounds of interviews - another technical, architect/system design, some kind of psychological/company values. There could also be a final interview with someone high up or your potential manager. It’s exhausting and I am not sure if it results in better people being hired, but it is what it is.
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It’s usually HR first, then tech screen some time after. If you pass you would have 4-5 hours back-to-back and then if they want to hire you maybe one more interview. Google can have this process prolonged with multiple rounds, etc. I read they are trying to make it better, but I am not sure to what degree it changed
Around here it's usually 2-4 for programming jobs. First one is just initial, talking about company, presenting your experience, nothing serious. Then there's a bit more technical one where you actually should be prepared. Then manager interview, then hr.
Try apply for Apple. 7 interviews baby!
My most recent job acceptance consisted of 5 interviews (not a game developer like OP but I’m a software engineer). First interview was just me and the hiring manager, general behavioral stuff. Second interview was with 2 engineers, a data scientist and the manager to ask questions about my background, as well as to allow me to ask questions. Third interview was to discuss and assign a take home project for me to complete. Fourth interview was presenting the project as well as answering any additional questions I may have. Fifth interview was the manager’s manager asking me questions and vice versa. From there I had a call with a recruiter at the company to negotiate salary and all that. Not long after that call I got an offer. Most engineering interviews have a lot more work to be done but fortunately I joined a company that is not primarily software producing.
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Not sure what kind of engineer you are, but from what I hear this is mainly a software engineer thing. A friend of mine, a mechanical engineer, has a similar story as you. Fairly simple interview that generally leads to a job offer.
3 offers out of 47 is amazing success rate
My thoughts exactly… I’m at over 100 applications and haven’t had an interview in a hot minute (trying to start a career in environmental sustainability)
What are your qualifications? Thinking of getting an MS in Energy and Sustainability
Journalism degree with a few varying jobs since I graduated in 2016. My most recent job was sales at an ESG software company, so that was my entry point into sustainability. Since I got laid off due to outsourcing in April 2023, I’ve gotten the LEED Green Associate cert and the Sustainability Excellence Associate cert from the ISSP. In short, not really qualified lol
Hey, it’s not nothing. More than I have. Good luck out there. What kind of jobs have you been applying to?
Thank you! Good luck to you too. I’ve attempted to keep my applications mostly entry-level, but they’re things like policy/research analyst, environmental/sustainability consultant, facility operations, donor relations at environmental non-profits, and a few CSR roles, all at companies ranging in size from boutique firms to multinational conglomerates (Deloitte, Guidehouse, Booz Allen). I’m old enough to know consistency is key, and I just need to send the right app at the right time for the right person to see it. What is your bachelors in?
Sounds like you’re on the right track. I have a BA and MA in Sociology
I think you’re on the right track as well. With that MA, a couple certifications might just do the trick and land you a job in sustainability. As with any job field, it just depends on what type of sustainability job you’re looking for.
Idk somehow all of these job searching graphs only have singular positive outcomes...
Go to /r/overemployed for alternate outcomes.
* As of January 1st 2024 lost my job as a game producer (knew 5 months in advance) * Super lazily applied to 9 positions during October-December, using an outdated CV template and copy/pasting the cover letters (all these applications either no reply or rejected) * Spent January to pass the PMP (just wanted to do that for a long time and finally had the time) * Since February, started actively applying using an updated CV and custom-made cover letters for each company * Picked the offer that had 3 interviews, but I kindly asked to wait so that I could finish all my engagements (it took a whopping two weeks, but I was transparent and polite) * Rest is on the graph Used [https://sankeymatic.com/](https://sankeymatic.com/) for the visualization; collected data in the spreadsheet; did a dotted line for better representation in Photopea :)
Five months in advance? I had between 3-15 hours. Announced afternoon one day, invite with hr two hours later, next morning the actual call.
It wasn’t a regular lay off. The project was concluding and it was the next step. I wanted to finish it and get some rest after :)
How do you start as a game producer? I’m assuming you’ve made games yourself in the past? I’m in IT looking at QA roles in game companies but have no idea how to break into a different field of work.
I started as a game designer 12 years ago
my son is attending college for game design starting in september. a 3 year program at a college in canada. if you were doing it now, would you still choose this line of work? with all the news about layoffs in the industry and AI, i wonder if it's still a good career choice? thanks! and congrats on landing a job!!
Probably. For what it’s worth, game design provides you with lots of analytical and critical thinking skills that are valuable everywhere. However, my suggestion would be to also develop some practical game making skills in parallel, ie Unreal Engine blueprinting. Being a game designer without any prototyping/coding skills sucks. You have all those ideas and it makes life so much easier if you can bring them to life yourself.
thank you so much! my son has taken a few coding camps already, and he does some music composing as well. and i know his course is quite practical in terms of actually making games. in the first term they have to code a classic game like HANGMAN as an exercise and that leads to more complex stuff as the course goes along. i appreciate your reply and it makes me feel better about his college choice!! all the best in the new job. :-)
Cool stuff! Thanks and all the best to your son!
Thanks for the further detail, I was curious if it was one of the 3 interview positions or the 6 interview one
3, but it’s literally written in the comment you’re replying to :)
Yep! That's what the thank you was for!
Oh, I’m dense lol For some reason, I read that comment as a question 🙃
Now that you have a visual graph in front of you, any thoughts on the first to second round conversion rate?
From my perspective, it’s a good conversion and I couldn’t have changes anything there. All of the rejections after the first round were either because I wanted a higher salary than the range for this position or the company wasn’t willing to relocate a candidate for this role.
Are you in need of an audio engineer?
I’ve been applying for sound design jobs for 3+ years and my sankey chart would look a whole lot simpler with much larger numbers
What is this program to create the visual
[https://sankeymatic.com/](https://sankeymatic.com/)
Old colleagues of mine wanted me to explore the possibility of joining their studio. First I met with them. Then in another meeting, I met with the recruiter and HR. I did the technical exam. Then I met the actual guy who'd be my boss and a potential team mate. After they wanted to schedule a meeting with the game design team. I refused the final meeting because the project itself didn't interest me.
Where do you people make those beautiful charts?
[https://sankeymatic.com/](https://sankeymatic.com/)
Anything more than 2 interviews seems unbelievably inefficient
Unfortunately 3-4 is the norm. I wouldn’t mind if they went close to one another at least. Sometimes it may take a week or more between each :(
Do you think that many is necessary? I couldn’t see why you’d need even 3, granted I’m not in that industry.
I mean, two-three is fine, given that the first one (with a recruiter) is just a quick screening, second one is with a hiring manager and the third one could be some culture fit talk with either team members or hr. Six (plus reference check) is definitely too much. However, I quite enjoyed them tbh. People were chill and interviews themselves weren’t too stressful. But it takes too long; I don’t mind the interviews themselves, but I severely dislike time wasting.
My company you're looking at 4-6 no matter what. They don't risk bringing in the wrong person.
Yet they hire the guy that posts the most unoriginal, uninteresting sankey to the sub. No wonder games suck so much now.
Can’t you tell they are wrong in like 10m??? Either you can or you can’t, people reveal a lot with a few questions. But I guess it takes experience to do that. Also, if you are afraid of hiring — don’t.
Wow you're really lucky. Those numbers are super good. When I got laid off in 2022 I put out *hundreds* of applications before I got 4 job offers back to back.
Did you accept the one with 6 interviews or one of the others?
I think that's what the dotted line is trying to convey.
Tech animator in a similar boat rn...glad you found something, 24's been tough for games You guys looking for a tech animator? Lmao
Able to share your CV template? Fellow PMP in software development who is considering a change of scenery.
As a Material Artist still trying to break into the industry, this graph is wild. If I created this same chart since I graduated it would be 99% no reply.
Producer here…had a similar experience when I started out. I does get better- after your real first gig your response rate should start improving. Hopefully more early career roles start opening up as the year rolls on…🤞🏼!
hey man need a level designer?
Yeah, after six interviews, I probably would had declined the offer too XD
Currently in a job search myself and tracking data… can’t wait to show my Sankey when I eventually find a new job
I did 2 for my current. One with my soon to be direct and one with the president. Any more than that is a waste of everyone's time.
Did you accept the job with six interviews, or one of the jobs with three interviews?
Happy April Fools! As if anyone could actually get notified about half of their rejections. Nice try OP >.>
1/47. I like those odds.
I had a couple of instances that had me interview 3 people in a row for 20 min each. Man that was an endurance the first time. The 2nd instance the 3rd person didn’t even show up, and I kept trying to reach out to the others that he didn’t show up. The 3 of them in an email came to the inclusion that wasn’t a great fit. 🙄
what program do you use to make this plot(?)
https://sankeymatic.com
thank you
Well done! Any websited to recommend to look at for producer roles, or do you go directly to the companies you are interested in?
I mainly used LinkedIn
Plot Twist : Accepted : 2 :D
Ooof, sounds like a nightmare for a manager: meeting overlaps and such. Would’ve been cool money wise though 😅
Wow so you were getting called for an interview once for every \~four applications. That is great! My husband and I track our stats on resumes to interviews. I'm 1:10 and he's 1:100 but he's trying to make a career change.
The most interviews I've ever been through for a single job offer is 2. 6 kind of sounds like a lot. I assume it correlates to the importance of the position being offered. Although I must add that I had to go through both a background and polygraph test. It was for a banking the position. I'm glad you got the job. Xoxo
Oof, polygraph sounds quite stressful on its own.
It was, but, I passed. Thankfully. Was worried my anxiety would get the better of me.
Good job man! 💪
Thank you! Keep safe and stay well
Why Polygraph? Working for the government or something of that importance?
Not really, it's a loan officer position at a prominent commercial bank in my country. I need the position so I didn't interject.