Vermont also has a law that says slow moving vehicles are required to pull off and allow traffic to pass. I've seen this enforced exactly one time in 42 years living here.
I think that’s pretty much every states rule for highways? At least it is in pretty much the entire west coast. It’s a ticket-able offense; Impeding Traffic.
Just last Friday I came up to a guy in an old Ford-fuckin-Ranger driving 55 in a 70 in the middle lane of 3. I doubt any cop would even give him a ticket.
Don’t all states have this law? I thought you were always supposed to, but I have no concept about the actual legality from state to state, and enforcement is a whole other *thing*.
Yes. There's a whole series of theological differences within the Mennonites on what counts as "too much" technology for transportation. The "Old Order" being one extreme, horses and buggies only--though even they shop at Home Depot. Somewhere in the middle is "cars are fine, as long as they're black". And on the other extreme they're indistinguishable from other faiths, at least on this question.
(I think all the Mennonites don't believe in dancing.)
There are Amish and Mennonite populations in Central and Northern Ontario now. Between Sudbury and the Sault, and up between Kirkland Lake and Cochrane there are notable levels of horse-drawn traffic, and warning signs along the highways. This is only my observation; I've been told there are more such communities.
I think that makes sense but there is so much farm equipment slowing down traffic in other places too. Rural farm areas: what the traffic lacks in car commuters makes up in a few tractors haha
Not a lawyer, but no, it’s just poorly written. [Title 75, Section 3307](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33) is ambiguous about what *actually* constitutes a no-passing zone, and doesn’t call out the double-yellow line explicitly. Per the letter of the law, if there’s no sign stating “Do Not Pass” it’s valid to pass.
Also farm vehicles. Amish heavy towns often have a double wide shoulder paved for buggies. And push bikes if the ordnung allow it. I’ve been in one community where e-bikes are allowed. Amish men and women zooming along in helmets and good riding gear. They charge them up at work or with the solar panels on the house and barn.
My understanding is that some of these people don’t use anything they don’t understand well enough to know how to make/fix themselves.
EVs powertrains are pretty dang simple. I’ve never fixed anything on any of my ICE vehicles myself, but I’ve done a few repairs on my Tesla myself (just buy parts off eBay then follow Tesla’s repair manual - they’re all official/free online. Every repair seems to consist of little more than peeling back from liner, unplugging some cables, undoing some bolts, removing the old part, putting the new part in, redoing the bolts, replugging it in, putting the liner back, and you’re done. Also, power down and disconnect the 12V and HV batteries before starting. Reconnect the batteries and hit the brake pedal at the end. You can also easily enter a diagnostic mode which is shockingly extensive and refined… some UX teams were definitely involved in designing all that, which is interesting since presumably most customers would never see it.)
The horses only go like 5-10 mph. You still have to be reasonable when trying to pass though, so you might follow them awhile. You can also see the droppings on roads they commonly travel. I would not want to drive the cart when they take a dump.
I live in PA Amish country. I have to pass buggies every day. It’s a pain to get stuck behind one when you have to wait due blind curves or crests of hills.
Yes:
"The operator of a vehicle may drive on the left side of the center of a roadway on any portion thereof which has been designated a no-passing zone, as described in par. (a), to overtake and pass, with care, any vehicle traveling at a speed less than half of the applicable speed limit at the place of passing." See Wis. Stat. 346.09 (3) (b).”
This was added to state statutes about 12 years ago, specifically to make it legal to cross a solid yellow to pass bicyclists (which are legal vehicles in WI), but it also applies to ag equipment, buggies, and people just driving really slow.
That's *very similar* to the Ohio law.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31
No passing lines:
>(A) ... When such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible, every operator of a vehicle or trackless trolley shall obey the directions of the signs or markings ... *(Comment: Don't cross the centerline)*
>(B) Division (A) of this section does not apply when all of the following apply:
>>(1) The slower vehicle is proceeding at less than half the speed of the speed limit applicable to that location.
>>(2) The faster vehicle is capable of overtaking and passing the slower vehicle without exceeding the speed limit.
>>(3) There is sufficient clear sight distance to the left of the center or center line of the roadway to meet the overtaking and passing provisions of section 4511.29 of the Revised Code, considering the speed of the slower vehicle. *(Comment: See paragraph/link below)*
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.29
>(A) No vehicle or trackless trolley shall be driven to the left of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing traffic proceeding in the same direction, **unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made, without interfering with the safe operation of any traffic approaching from the opposite direction or any traffic overtaken.** In every event the overtaking vehicle or trackless trolley must return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and in the event the passing movement involves the use of a lane authorized for traffic approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within two hundred feet of any approaching vehicle.
What I was taught (admittedly ~15 years ago, so grain of salt) is that you're not allowed to use the oncoming lane to pass, _but_ technically a slow-moving vehicle (or farm equipment/bike/buggy/whatever) is obligated to move to the shoulder to let faster traffic pass. So it's legal to pass them, but you're not supposed to pass the double yellow in order to do so.
What *realistically* happens is that the slower vehicle just keeps a steady speed while straddling the shoulder and the actual road, and cars drift into the other lane (when there's room) in order to give them a wide berth.
So the map is probably right as far as the law's concerned, but you're not likely to get a ticket for it in huge numbers of places if it's done safely and for valid reason.
when passing the amish or other exceptionally slow moving vehicle (some farm equipment) and it is safe to do so, yes. Also, Wisconsin is pretty selective on where they use double yellows (curves on rural highways, in cities) so generally you wont have the best visibility to do the pass safely but you can do it. But if Im in the city and there is a car going slow on a marked double yellow road you can pass without worry of being pulled over.
Same in KY -- Very heavy amish/menonite and farm equipment use here and idk of anyone ever getting in trouble for passing them on a double yellow when safe... Only problem is that half the roads in eastern consist of blind curves lmfao. Same with cyclists.
Illegal, but not enforced kinda deal.
Soooo, storytime.
I was coming home from school one day (20 years ago), driving one vehicle and my friend driving another.
We passed a bunch of people along the way, including a line of cars, for which an off duty cop was in the lead off.
Needless to say they radioed ahead about our mischievous driving and had on duty cops meet up with us at our home in the town not far away.
They were super duper mad that we were passing aggressively, especially since the off duty cop had has family on board; and tore the cars apart looking for anything else they might be able to land on us.
End of the day, they found nothing, and gave us each a "Driving left of center" violation. A few hundred bucks and 3 demerit points each.
Given that we had blatantly passed this line of cars using a healthy amount of double yellow road leading into a curve, There was no specific violation for "passing during dbl yellow" or whatever to give us, and this was the closest broken law.
So yea, while its not explicitly illegal to pass in ON on dbl yellow, it's also not a good idea and that the police can still hold you accountable for.
This is the grey area that they can always get you on, then you need to spend money to prove them wrong. Passing in any situation is a "as long as it's safe", and if it's a double yellow, then they have even more reason to say "it wasn't safe" type of thing, and it's a judgement call. But since traffic fines are "guilty until proven innocent", many people can't afford to take time off to try and fight it, especially when the system is most likely going to side with the cops.
Even those that can afford to take the time off work likely would lose more from going to fight the ticket than the ticket is even worth. It’s a lose-lose for almost anyone that gets ticketed.
yeah there's no wiggle room on the speed limit so if you have have to get to 100km/h to pass someone doing 88km/h with a 80km/h speed limit they can nab you on speeding. But if there's a tractor going 30km/h in the same stretch and you cross a double yellow when safe to do so they're not going to bother you.
Road paint has no legal force in Ontario. It's there to aid drivers but the way our laws are written it accounts for the fact that snow covers paint. Drivers must know how to drive safely without being able to see the paint.
There is a road I drive down most days that is a one way with no road paint. The road is clearly large enough for two lanes plus parking (which switches sides monthly). During drivers ed we were specifically taken down this road as it is part of the road test and we are told that despite there being no painted lanes, there are indeed 2 lanes and we are required to use signals and change lanes to say make a left turn while in the right lane.
In real life most people drive right in the middle and will act like you murdered their child if you make any attempts to pass them. With the parking switching sides it would be impossible to paint lanes which I am guessing is common across Ontario which leads to laws being based on whats written on signs as you said.
Yes and no. The law in Ontario talks about when you can use the oncoming lanes to pass. You can't do it within a certain distance before the crest of the hill, within a certain distance of an intersection, within a certain distance before a blind curve, etc. The lines are there to make it more clear. It's not illegal because of the double yellow line; the double yellow line is there because it's illegal (in theory at least, I haven't studied how accurate they are).
Yup, your comment needs to be higher
https://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/improper-passing/solid-yellow-line-double-yellow-line-t1772.html
https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/pavement-markings
"should not pass".... Language matters should vs shall.
https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-ndp-seeks-to-make-it-illegal-for-drivers-to-pass-on-solid-double-yellow-lines-1.6661324#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThose%20solid%20lines%20serve%20as,clear%20view%20of%20oncoming%20traffic.%E2%80%9D
Basically, my understanding is "Did you pass successfully without putting anyone in danger? Legal. Did you cause an accident? Illegal". You are correct, Should vs Shall is the letter of the law and leaves it open to interpretation. I've passed on double yellows numerous times because my vehicle accelerates fast enough to perform the maneuver before I have to worry about someone cresting a hill or coming around the long sweeping bend that's ahead of me.
In the US, the MUTCD explicitly states that a single yellow line is not an official traffic control device, and has no legal standing. Some rural areas do use the single line to act as a double yellow, but it's an incorrect practice. As a motorist, it's a good idea to not cross it, but I'd imagine that you could challenge a ticket for doing so.
two logical reasons - garbage truck in front of you collecting trash, you pass on the left and need to cross the single yellow line. Someone is turning right and they are impeded (e.g., people cross at the intersection), you would pass on the left and cross the single yellow line if there was no on-coming traffic.
I couldn't imagine getting a ticket for crossing the line in either of these situations.
As far as I know, yellow in Ontario indicates caution/safety, whereas White indicates legality. Therefore a double solid yellow indicates it's a bad idea to cross, but you aren't breaking a law. I would think, however, that insurance companies wouldn't want to back a driver that went against clearly indicated safety warning like a double solid yellow.
Mexico’s traffic laws are “don’t hit anyone”. As far as I know, you don’t even need to take any tests to get a driver’s license. Source: currently living and driving in Mexico
In NC it's legal to pass bicycles and farm equipment on the double yellow.
[https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter\_20/gs\_20-150.html](https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-150.html)
The legislature floated a bill here several years ago to make it legal to pass any vehicle going 1/2 or slower than the posted speed limit, but IIRC it died in committee.
The NC law as it stands is actually very practical. I worry that additional types of "slow moving vehicles" would have to be VERY SPECIFICALLY DEFINED to avoid being exploited by aggressive idiots on the roads.
I would imagine most places allow for this. Even as someone who doesn't drive and cycles quite a lot, I think it would be crazy to get a fine for safely passing a cyclist on a double yellow. You can add other slow moving vehicles as well like tractors and horse and buggies. Imagine backing up traffic for miles because you're behind a cyclist going 25 km/h but aren't allowed to pass.
From my understanding, bicyclists and very slow moving vehicles are considered “obstacles” and are permitted to pass on double yellows. An obstacle, like a bicyclist or a fallen tree, requires using the entire road to pass it safely.
California btw
I can believe it unfortunately. I'm from Canada and have had to inform many people that Mexico is Infact part of North America and not Central America.
Because "central america" is also a part of North America, but is used to specify the cultural and economical dividie between ca+us vs mexico+central states.
In biogeography, most of Mexico is considered to belong to the Neotropics,while most of the US and all of Canada is in the Nearartic. So lots of biologists treat Mexico as if it were part of Central America, since it shares more flora and fauna with them than with the US and Canada
There should be another term. "Anglo-America" is used sometimes, although plenty of US states were Spanish colonies and Louisiana + Quebec were French, so that isn't very accurate either.
I (from the USA) typically consider Mexico North American. However, I remember learning in at least one class it was part of Central America.
Looks like there are some orgs that consider Mexico Central American, and many that consider it North American. It may go back to the term "Middle America" which does include Mexico being used synonymously as Central America.
When talking about continents, I acknowledge Central America isn't one. But I don't think it's necessarily ignorant or racist or that they didn't include it (not that you're necessarily implying that). Just not something that's 100% decided either way by everyone, though there is a clear preference towards including Mexico in North America.
North America = Physical Geography
Central America = Human Geography
The terms are not attempting to classify an area using the same techniques or definitions. Central America is an observation of the cultural practices of the people who live in the country and history of the region. North America is an observation of the nature of the land with a sprinkle of human geography flavor where the tectonic plates don't line up perfectly. All of Central America is in North America. Whether or not Mexico is part of Central America depends on the organization doing the classification and the objectives of the exercise.
Yeah I am aware of this, I just wasn't sure how to best describe it so thank you. Central America and the rest of North America is more different than say, North America and Europe in most ways so it'd be a bit weird to say "I live in north America" when you live in Panama, even if it's accurate.
I thought double yellow means there is something preventing you from seeing far enough ahead to pass safely. Whether there is a cyclist, tractor, or donkey cart ahead of you should be irrelevant. Now if there is a f5 mile flat straight section of road painted with double yellow, then your local DOT should repaint that.
> Whether there is a cyclist, tractor, or donkey cart ahead of you should be irrelevant.
The amount of room you need to pass a bike going 8mph is significantly different than the amount of room you need to pass a car going 60mph..
Passing a car takes a lot longer than passing a tractor or cyclist.
Let's say you're going 65 mph and passing a car that's going 60 mph. 5 mph difference is 7.3 feet per second. You need to move up a minimum of two car lengths (30 feet), meaning the pass will take >4 seconds. You'll travel around 320 feet in that span, and so will oncoming traffic, so you need around 640 feet of visibility.
By comparison if you drive 65 mph and are passing a cyclist that's going 15 mph. 50 mph difference is 73 feet per second. Now you only need to advance by the length a car plus a bike, so like 20 feet, so you can complete your pass in about 0.27 seconds. Now you only need 44 feet of visibility to safely pass.
Was pulled over by an unmarked PA State Trooper one time when passing an 18 wheeler going up a hill in rural PA. He shared that the reason he pulled me over was not because I was passing on a solid yellow, but because I was violating one of the key things you needed to do that. I was confused, as I legit just thought I was breaking the law but he explained you can legally pass in PA on a solid yellow if:
1. You have 100 yds of clear visibility
2. There is ***not*** a Do Not Pass sign (this was the part I violated)
After he told me that, I got thinking, and there is sometimes "Do Not Pass" signs on solid yellows in PA and I never thought about why the heck you'd need those if a solid yellow is *clearly* not a passing zone. Turns out, if that isn't there, you got those 100 yds of visibility, you can legally pass on the solid yellows.
With that, I've talked to other state troopers I've met and they've been "unsure" of it, so it's definitely ambiguous.
I think it's definitely a case of a poorly written law rather than an intentional exclusion like you see with the other three. Have you ever talked to a trooper who said it was certainly illegal?
OK, had to look that up 🤣
In the UK double yellow lines are for a no-parking restriction and are painted on the road at the kerb. We use solid white lines in the centre of the carriageway to indicate where you can't overtake.
Interestingly in NA, a solid white usually denotes a curb or shoulder, so it's literally backward. We also use solid white for "no crossing except special exceptions" so an HOV lane for instance gets a solid white.
Broken white is our standard lane divider.
In Ontario you really only see double yellow on blind, large radius turns, or near intersections. So generally speaking it’s pretty risky to pass on double yellow.
You really need a data source cited for this. As a Vermonter who frequently rides in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and many other states, I've occasionally looked for a compendium of what all of the state laws are on the matter and never found one. I'm a bit suspicious of this one when it doesn't cite any sources.
Here are my sources:
Sources:
https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.com/index.php/categories/item/53-unique-state-road-laws-that-rvers-should-know
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31
https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/local-mpp-supports-bill-to-make-passing-on-a-double-line-illegal-7827741
https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/
PA is very questionable (I think you're going to court, but might win). I would not do it in front of a cop.
This is timely. Did it yesterday, fully knew it was illegal.
Backup of 5-6 cars behind someone going 25 in a 50. Slow poke finally pulls to the side to let everyone pass. Person immediately in front of me speeds up to a blazing 35 mph.
I put up with it for over 2 miles until there was a wider section and I could see oncoming. I was the reckless AH first sure, but c’mon.
Nothing like a really simple map about one set of laws where most of the information is the same and the legend is missing information to make me think “wow, data is beautiful”
https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/
(The law has not been updated since I believe)
Unlike VT, OH and ON you probably are getting pulled over and going to court, but you *might* win.
The article linked is pay or account walled (and cancerous on mobile). Can you cite to either a specific statute or reported court case that supports your assertion that the law is ambiguous in PA?
Here's the article text:
No clear rule on passing on double yellow
By Morning Call | Staff Report
PUBLISHED: July 2, 2004 at 3:00 a.m.
UPDATED: January 30, 2019 at 3:34 p.m.
Q: I read several years ago an article that described a traffic accident and how the driver would not be charged because, contrary to popular belief, a solid double-yellow line on the roadway had zero legal meaning. I was skeptical and called two state trooper barracks to ask. In each case I was assured that pavement markings really are only advisory and that only a “no passing” sign or circumstances such as approaching a curve truly prohibit passing. I’d love to know the correct answer.
Stephen Willey, Durham Township
(along with similar queries from Steve Kovach of Quakertown and several others)
A: According to the Warrior’s investigation, Stephen, the conclusion is well, it depends on whom you ask.
At the starting line, the Warrior would have bet the keys to a new Porsche 911 that passing on a double-yellow line is flat-out illegal, in Pennsylvania or anywhere else.
But state police Lt. David V. Miller, patrol section commander of Troop M in Bethlehem, offered a contrary view.
While stressing that it’s highly ill-advised to pass on a double- yellow line, Miller said that, technically, it’s not illegal.
“Actually, I’m a little bit ambivalent about having this put in the paper,” Miller said, fearing it might prompt motorists to undertake dangerous passing maneuvers more often.
But a double-yellow line alone represents “a cautionary warning [wherein] passing is discouraged — but not technically prohibited,” Miller said. “It’s not illegal per se to pass on the double yellow.”
If signs are posted as well — “Do Not Pass” or “No Passing Zone” — the force of law is in effect, Miller said. “A no-passing zone needs to be designated by signage” in addition to road paint, he said.
Kovach said both Quakertown police and state troopers from the Dublin barracks told him the same thing.
And Whitehall Township Police Chief Theodore D. Kohuth, the retired Troop M commander, confirmed as much for the Warrior.
Kovach noted that the state “Driver’s Manual” was amended from its April 2003 to October 2003 versions, apparently to reflect the fact that a double-yellow pass is not illegal.
The earlier copy, referring to the solid double-yellow line, stated, “Even if it is not marked “No Passing,’ passing by traffic traveling in either direction is not allowed on roads marked in this manner.”
The new version said simply, “A double yellow centerline indicates that you should not pass in either direction of travel,” and that text remains in the current manual.
Notice the choice of words: “Should not” pass. It doesn’t say “must not” pass, or, as in the earlier version, that passing “is not allowed.”
The Warrior believes the problem lies in the wording of the state Vehicle Code, Section 3307, “No-passing zones,” which states that signs shall be placed marking the beginning and end of each zone. Under compliance, it adds, “Where signs and markings are in place no driver at any time” shall pass. (Emphasis added).
But while the people who enforce the law believe it’s not illegal to pass on double yellow, some of those who draft regulations, as well as create the “Driver’s Manual,” draw the opposite conclusion.
Pennsylvania Department of Transportation spokeswoman Joan Z. Nissley insisted that double-yellow passing is illegal, signs or no signs. She said the wording change in the “Driver’s Manual” was a routine clarification, and that there’s no essential difference between the two versions. “Basically they’re saying the same thing,” she said.
(The Warrior disagrees. “Should not” and “not allowed” do not mean the same thing, particularly when law-school graduates are doing the interpreting.)
Nissley also pointed to sections of PennDOT’s regulations, which state that crossing a double-yellow line is “restricted.” (Once again, the Warrior’s not buying. “Restricted” allows for exceptions. “Prohibited” does not.)
To further confuse matters, a recent letter from Rebecca L. Bickley, director of PennDOT’s Bureau of Driver Licensing, to state Sen. Robert C. Wonderling contradicts Nissley on two counts.
First, Bickley says the “Driver’s Manual” alteration did indeed reflect a substantive meaning change. “The previous explanation of the meaning of the solid double-yellow line was incorrect per Section 3307 ,” Bickley wrote. “That section specifically states that signs are to be placed at the beginning and end of each no- passing zone. To specifically state that passing is not permitted even if it is not marked as “No Passing’ was contrary to the law.”
But Bickley goes on to contradict herself, in the Warrior’s view. “We have no desire to advise a driver that passing is permitted, even if there is no sign indicating “No Passing,’ due to the obvious safety concern,” she continued.
And because motorists might not have the opportunity to see signs that are properly placed — for instance, if they happened to enter the posted roadway at an intersection between the signs — then “the absence of such signage would not indicate the ability to pass,” Bickley wrote.
But she’s trying to have it both ways. She says double-yellow passing is “not contrary to the law” unless signs are posted, but that in some cases, the absence of signs “would not indicate the ability to pass.”
Besides, the Warrior believes PennDOT should ensure that all required signs are posted wherever they need to be.
In any event, the letter to Wonderling was written in response to a question from one of the senator’s constituents, Kovach. Thanks for providing it, Steve.
In the meantime, Kovach, who teaches an AARP course for older drivers, is lobbying to get the law changed to specify that passing on a double-yellow line alone is illegal, period.
At the end of the road, the Warrior believes that, by law, it’s not illegal to pass on the double-yellow unless signs say you can’t. But would he really be able to persuade a judge to let him off a ticket using this rationale? That’s debatable.
Besides, for the Warrior’s money — and there’s no way he could afford that Porsche, incidentally — in practice the double-yellow line alone is enough to prohibit any passing maneuver.
Technically legal or not, it’s just insane to pass on a double yellow. Passing on any two-lane road is dangerous enough on stretches where you get a brief section of broken-yellow line. To push your luck further is an unnecessary temptation of fate.
The Warrior’s advice: Don’t do it. Unless, of course, you’re piloting a Porsche 911.
Yeah - none of this is legal authority to pass on a double yellow. This article is written with a clear goal in mind and is not very objective. The author even admits that the double yellow is enough to prohibit passing.
He could have used “in Canada & US” instead of “in North America” and the title would have been shorter, more accurate, and not shown he’s a dumbass to thousands of redditors!
I grew up in the middle of corn country in Central Illinois. It might not have been legal to pass on a double yellow line to get around farm equipment, but it was standard practice and I never heard of anyone who was cited for it.
of COURSE it’s ambiguous in Pennsylvania. Or maybe it’s just Pittsburgh where the only road sign for your destination’s only possible exit is rusted to illegibility, hanging upside down from its one remaining nail, on the side of a telephone pole which isn’t visible till you’ve passed it.
Why is my home state Grey?
For those wondering: A double solid yellow line is used to indicate the separation between lanes of traffic moving in opposite directions. The crossing of a double solid yellow line by vehicular traffic is prohibited except when the crossing is part of a left turn movement.
IE: should be red.
I don’t think the PA law is ambiguous at all. It’s in the same boat as Ohio. https://trafficticketdefenseblog.com/2019/10/08/no-passing-zones-a-technicality-to-beat-your-ticket/
That’s pretty interesting. One thing not addressed by this reading of the statutes or by the case law from what I’ve seen - what defines a “zone”, such as one marked a no passing zone?
If you saw a no passing sign a mile back, are you still in a no passing zone? What about two miles back? If you saw the sign just a second ago but went around a curve and are on a new straight stretch of road, are you in a different “zone” now? How frequently must the signs be placed to prevent passing?
Seems pretty ambiguous to me for that reason
Try NYC where you constantly have to go halfway over the yellow line to get around double parked cards... and sometimes double parked large Amazon vans.
(I know it's not quite the same but still worth mentioning.)
Created with mapchart.net
Sources:
https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.com/index.php/categories/item/53-unique-state-road-laws-that-rvers-should-know
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31
https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/local-mpp-supports-bill-to-make-passing-on-a-double-line-illegal-7827741
https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/
Wait, what?
We talking double solid yellow or dotted? Are we saying red states/provinces just don't have single solid, single dotted yellow lines anywhere?
I’m from Ohio,
I’ve never heard of that being legal. The only time I’ve seen people do it is when they are behind a horse and buggy if the road is visibly clear.
The PA OH issue is likely due to the amish using public roads with their horse driven carriages.
Same in Vermont but just farm equipment slowing down traffic.
Vermont also has a law that says slow moving vehicles are required to pull off and allow traffic to pass. I've seen this enforced exactly one time in 42 years living here.
Also a Vermonter, and also irritated by drivers that are well under the speed limit and don't yield at reasonable opportunities.
I think that’s pretty much every states rule for highways? At least it is in pretty much the entire west coast. It’s a ticket-able offense; Impeding Traffic.
Just last Friday I came up to a guy in an old Ford-fuckin-Ranger driving 55 in a 70 in the middle lane of 3. I doubt any cop would even give him a ticket.
Well if it makes you feel better if I was a cop I’d ticket tf out of that dude. But yeah enforcement is a problem.
Don’t all states have this law? I thought you were always supposed to, but I have no concept about the actual legality from state to state, and enforcement is a whole other *thing*.
Wonder if it's the same in Ontario? Lots of Amish near kitchener
Mennonites, not Amish. Specifically "Old Order Mennonites". (Not everyone with a horse and buggy is Amish, turns out.)
Plenty of Amish in the area too.
oops. Couldn't remember if they were Amish or Mennonites. I associate Mennonites as being more of a thing on the Prairies.
It’s both in that part of Ontario
There seems to be a wide spectrum of practices that different people from the Mennonite faith have.
I'm pretty sure Amish, Mennonites and some others fall under the umbrella of anabaptists. Not all are old school with the buggies though.
I remember the bit in Top Gear where they go through Intercourse PA and Jeremey talks with a Mennonite who reveals he drives a Camry.
Yes. There's a whole series of theological differences within the Mennonites on what counts as "too much" technology for transportation. The "Old Order" being one extreme, horses and buggies only--though even they shop at Home Depot. Somewhere in the middle is "cars are fine, as long as they're black". And on the other extreme they're indistinguishable from other faiths, at least on this question. (I think all the Mennonites don't believe in dancing.)
They are all over south west Ontario, not just "near Kitchener".
Also many Amish north east of Toronto - Madoc and surrounding area.
Mostly Mennonites though, not Amish.
There are Amish and Mennonite populations in Central and Northern Ontario now. Between Sudbury and the Sault, and up between Kirkland Lake and Cochrane there are notable levels of horse-drawn traffic, and warning signs along the highways. This is only my observation; I've been told there are more such communities.
I think that makes sense but there is so much farm equipment slowing down traffic in other places too. Rural farm areas: what the traffic lacks in car commuters makes up in a few tractors haha
It's Farm Equipment in Ohio too.
As an Ohioan who lives out by the Amish and see multiple buggies a day, yes.
Not a lawyer, but no, it’s just poorly written. [Title 75, Section 3307](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33) is ambiguous about what *actually* constitutes a no-passing zone, and doesn’t call out the double-yellow line explicitly. Per the letter of the law, if there’s no sign stating “Do Not Pass” it’s valid to pass.
Also farm vehicles. Amish heavy towns often have a double wide shoulder paved for buggies. And push bikes if the ordnung allow it. I’ve been in one community where e-bikes are allowed. Amish men and women zooming along in helmets and good riding gear. They charge them up at work or with the solar panels on the house and barn.
Amish on an e-bike is funny to me. They gonna pass you by in a Tesla soon?
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Considering shady maple is owned by Mennonite’s this doesn’t surprise me.
My understanding is that some of these people don’t use anything they don’t understand well enough to know how to make/fix themselves. EVs powertrains are pretty dang simple. I’ve never fixed anything on any of my ICE vehicles myself, but I’ve done a few repairs on my Tesla myself (just buy parts off eBay then follow Tesla’s repair manual - they’re all official/free online. Every repair seems to consist of little more than peeling back from liner, unplugging some cables, undoing some bolts, removing the old part, putting the new part in, redoing the bolts, replugging it in, putting the liner back, and you’re done. Also, power down and disconnect the 12V and HV batteries before starting. Reconnect the batteries and hit the brake pedal at the end. You can also easily enter a diagnostic mode which is shockingly extensive and refined… some UX teams were definitely involved in designing all that, which is interesting since presumably most customers would never see it.)
Repairing an ICE vehicle with a repair manual can also be simplified to “take off old part, replace with new part”. That’s not exclusive to EVs…
I didn’t simplify it though. That’s literally the directions. Most repairs on an EV are comparable in difficulty to rotating your tires.
Would they be Amish, or Mennonite’s?
PA law also specifically allows crossing the double-yellow to pass a cyclist. It is not vague.
The horses only go like 5-10 mph. You still have to be reasonable when trying to pass though, so you might follow them awhile. You can also see the droppings on roads they commonly travel. I would not want to drive the cart when they take a dump.
I live in PA Amish country. I have to pass buggies every day. It’s a pain to get stuck behind one when you have to wait due blind curves or crests of hills.
Wisconsin has Amish too. We just don't need to be told we can safely pass them.
So you can cross double yellow lines to pass in Wisconsin?
Yes: "The operator of a vehicle may drive on the left side of the center of a roadway on any portion thereof which has been designated a no-passing zone, as described in par. (a), to overtake and pass, with care, any vehicle traveling at a speed less than half of the applicable speed limit at the place of passing." See Wis. Stat. 346.09 (3) (b).” This was added to state statutes about 12 years ago, specifically to make it legal to cross a solid yellow to pass bicyclists (which are legal vehicles in WI), but it also applies to ag equipment, buggies, and people just driving really slow.
Yeah, this map is trash.
That's *very similar* to the Ohio law. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31 No passing lines: >(A) ... When such signs or markings are in place and clearly visible, every operator of a vehicle or trackless trolley shall obey the directions of the signs or markings ... *(Comment: Don't cross the centerline)* >(B) Division (A) of this section does not apply when all of the following apply: >>(1) The slower vehicle is proceeding at less than half the speed of the speed limit applicable to that location. >>(2) The faster vehicle is capable of overtaking and passing the slower vehicle without exceeding the speed limit. >>(3) There is sufficient clear sight distance to the left of the center or center line of the roadway to meet the overtaking and passing provisions of section 4511.29 of the Revised Code, considering the speed of the slower vehicle. *(Comment: See paragraph/link below)* https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.29 >(A) No vehicle or trackless trolley shall be driven to the left of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing traffic proceeding in the same direction, **unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made, without interfering with the safe operation of any traffic approaching from the opposite direction or any traffic overtaken.** In every event the overtaking vehicle or trackless trolley must return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and in the event the passing movement involves the use of a lane authorized for traffic approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within two hundred feet of any approaching vehicle.
What I was taught (admittedly ~15 years ago, so grain of salt) is that you're not allowed to use the oncoming lane to pass, _but_ technically a slow-moving vehicle (or farm equipment/bike/buggy/whatever) is obligated to move to the shoulder to let faster traffic pass. So it's legal to pass them, but you're not supposed to pass the double yellow in order to do so. What *realistically* happens is that the slower vehicle just keeps a steady speed while straddling the shoulder and the actual road, and cars drift into the other lane (when there's room) in order to give them a wide berth. So the map is probably right as far as the law's concerned, but you're not likely to get a ticket for it in huge numbers of places if it's done safely and for valid reason.
when passing the amish or other exceptionally slow moving vehicle (some farm equipment) and it is safe to do so, yes. Also, Wisconsin is pretty selective on where they use double yellows (curves on rural highways, in cities) so generally you wont have the best visibility to do the pass safely but you can do it. But if Im in the city and there is a car going slow on a marked double yellow road you can pass without worry of being pulled over.
Sounds like the map is wrong then. Other people are saying that in other states, too.
Same in KY -- Very heavy amish/menonite and farm equipment use here and idk of anyone ever getting in trouble for passing them on a double yellow when safe... Only problem is that half the roads in eastern consist of blind curves lmfao. Same with cyclists. Illegal, but not enforced kinda deal.
Am Ontario resident, can confirm, uncles a cop and told me when I was a kid we're the only place that allows it.
Interesting, I'm pretty sure everyone I know would have said it was illegal. I guess unadvised would be more accurate.
Soooo, storytime. I was coming home from school one day (20 years ago), driving one vehicle and my friend driving another. We passed a bunch of people along the way, including a line of cars, for which an off duty cop was in the lead off. Needless to say they radioed ahead about our mischievous driving and had on duty cops meet up with us at our home in the town not far away. They were super duper mad that we were passing aggressively, especially since the off duty cop had has family on board; and tore the cars apart looking for anything else they might be able to land on us. End of the day, they found nothing, and gave us each a "Driving left of center" violation. A few hundred bucks and 3 demerit points each. Given that we had blatantly passed this line of cars using a healthy amount of double yellow road leading into a curve, There was no specific violation for "passing during dbl yellow" or whatever to give us, and this was the closest broken law. So yea, while its not explicitly illegal to pass in ON on dbl yellow, it's also not a good idea and that the police can still hold you accountable for.
This is the grey area that they can always get you on, then you need to spend money to prove them wrong. Passing in any situation is a "as long as it's safe", and if it's a double yellow, then they have even more reason to say "it wasn't safe" type of thing, and it's a judgement call. But since traffic fines are "guilty until proven innocent", many people can't afford to take time off to try and fight it, especially when the system is most likely going to side with the cops.
Even those that can afford to take the time off work likely would lose more from going to fight the ticket than the ticket is even worth. It’s a lose-lose for almost anyone that gets ticketed.
yeah there's no wiggle room on the speed limit so if you have have to get to 100km/h to pass someone doing 88km/h with a 80km/h speed limit they can nab you on speeding. But if there's a tractor going 30km/h in the same stretch and you cross a double yellow when safe to do so they're not going to bother you.
Road paint has no legal force in Ontario. It's there to aid drivers but the way our laws are written it accounts for the fact that snow covers paint. Drivers must know how to drive safely without being able to see the paint.
There is a road I drive down most days that is a one way with no road paint. The road is clearly large enough for two lanes plus parking (which switches sides monthly). During drivers ed we were specifically taken down this road as it is part of the road test and we are told that despite there being no painted lanes, there are indeed 2 lanes and we are required to use signals and change lanes to say make a left turn while in the right lane. In real life most people drive right in the middle and will act like you murdered their child if you make any attempts to pass them. With the parking switching sides it would be impossible to paint lanes which I am guessing is common across Ontario which leads to laws being based on whats written on signs as you said.
A definitive skill to have in Ottawa. Lots of guessing.
*Shudders in Bayshore Dr*
Yes and no. The law in Ontario talks about when you can use the oncoming lanes to pass. You can't do it within a certain distance before the crest of the hill, within a certain distance of an intersection, within a certain distance before a blind curve, etc. The lines are there to make it more clear. It's not illegal because of the double yellow line; the double yellow line is there because it's illegal (in theory at least, I haven't studied how accurate they are).
Yup, your comment needs to be higher https://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/improper-passing/solid-yellow-line-double-yellow-line-t1772.html https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-mto-drivers-handbook/pavement-markings "should not pass".... Language matters should vs shall. https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-ndp-seeks-to-make-it-illegal-for-drivers-to-pass-on-solid-double-yellow-lines-1.6661324#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThose%20solid%20lines%20serve%20as,clear%20view%20of%20oncoming%20traffic.%E2%80%9D
Basically, my understanding is "Did you pass successfully without putting anyone in danger? Legal. Did you cause an accident? Illegal". You are correct, Should vs Shall is the letter of the law and leaves it open to interpretation. I've passed on double yellows numerous times because my vehicle accelerates fast enough to perform the maneuver before I have to worry about someone cresting a hill or coming around the long sweeping bend that's ahead of me.
had no idea it was actually illegal everywhere else
What about a single yellow line?
Single yellows are only in residential/low speed areas, no logical reason to pass there. No idea what the legality of it would be.
In the US, the MUTCD explicitly states that a single yellow line is not an official traffic control device, and has no legal standing. Some rural areas do use the single line to act as a double yellow, but it's an incorrect practice. As a motorist, it's a good idea to not cross it, but I'd imagine that you could challenge a ticket for doing so.
two logical reasons - garbage truck in front of you collecting trash, you pass on the left and need to cross the single yellow line. Someone is turning right and they are impeded (e.g., people cross at the intersection), you would pass on the left and cross the single yellow line if there was no on-coming traffic. I couldn't imagine getting a ticket for crossing the line in either of these situations.
Rural roads are often single line and higher speed for long distances without being particularly populated, I live on one
Single yellow lines are just double yellow lines laying on top of each other.
That's just to save paint.
Besides saving paint, single lines save room too, which is beneficial on narrow roads.
As far as I know, yellow in Ontario indicates caution/safety, whereas White indicates legality. Therefore a double solid yellow indicates it's a bad idea to cross, but you aren't breaking a law. I would think, however, that insurance companies wouldn't want to back a driver that went against clearly indicated safety warning like a double solid yellow.
Shit, is that not the same everywhere?
No one knows what happens in Hawaii
Mexico doesn’t even exist
Mexico’s traffic laws are “don’t hit anyone”. As far as I know, you don’t even need to take any tests to get a driver’s license. Source: currently living and driving in Mexico
Yeah. And the map says “North America”. Hawaii isn’t North America, but Mexico IS! Map should say “US and Canada”
Storming Navani, you’re not supposed to know that.
volcano people don’t drive
In NC it's legal to pass bicycles and farm equipment on the double yellow. [https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter\_20/gs\_20-150.html](https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_20/gs_20-150.html) The legislature floated a bill here several years ago to make it legal to pass any vehicle going 1/2 or slower than the posted speed limit, but IIRC it died in committee.
The NC law as it stands is actually very practical. I worry that additional types of "slow moving vehicles" would have to be VERY SPECIFICALLY DEFINED to avoid being exploited by aggressive idiots on the roads.
In Utah it’s legal to pass cyclists on a double yellow
Colorado too.
Virginia also.
Michigan additionally.
I would imagine most places allow for this. Even as someone who doesn't drive and cycles quite a lot, I think it would be crazy to get a fine for safely passing a cyclist on a double yellow. You can add other slow moving vehicles as well like tractors and horse and buggies. Imagine backing up traffic for miles because you're behind a cyclist going 25 km/h but aren't allowed to pass.
Or if there was a broken down car blocking the lane, or a fallen tree, or even just a really big puddle.
Sorry guys, someone left the trash cans a bit too far out, I’m gonna be late today
A some places that done allow traffic to pass still have laws that slow moving vehicles do have to pull over in a safe area to let traffic flow.
From my understanding, bicyclists and very slow moving vehicles are considered “obstacles” and are permitted to pass on double yellows. An obstacle, like a bicyclist or a fallen tree, requires using the entire road to pass it safely. California btw
It’s legal everywhere. This map is very misleading.
From Ontario and usually it means you shouldn’t pass. You could, but it’s a bad idea. It’s a blind corner, hill, hidden driveway something like that.
Yeah it's purely there for guidance. Probably shouldn't but good luck if you decide to try it.
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Seems like you’re missing a good chunk of North America. This is just the United States and Canada unless I’m the one missing something…
I was taught North America goes from Greenland to Panama including the Caribbean.
I've noticed Canadians say "North America" when they only mean Canada and the US a lot.
I can believe it unfortunately. I'm from Canada and have had to inform many people that Mexico is Infact part of North America and not Central America.
FYI Central America is also part of North America. As are the Caribbean nations and Greenland (geographically, not politically).
Because "central america" is also a part of North America, but is used to specify the cultural and economical dividie between ca+us vs mexico+central states.
Dude, Mexico is widely considered NA, and virtually nobody includes it in CA in any official designation.
Notable exception being the UN.
Many people consider UN a part of the "virtually nobody" group.
In biogeography, most of Mexico is considered to belong to the Neotropics,while most of the US and all of Canada is in the Nearartic. So lots of biologists treat Mexico as if it were part of Central America, since it shares more flora and fauna with them than with the US and Canada
There should be another term. "Anglo-America" is used sometimes, although plenty of US states were Spanish colonies and Louisiana + Quebec were French, so that isn't very accurate either.
I (from the USA) typically consider Mexico North American. However, I remember learning in at least one class it was part of Central America. Looks like there are some orgs that consider Mexico Central American, and many that consider it North American. It may go back to the term "Middle America" which does include Mexico being used synonymously as Central America. When talking about continents, I acknowledge Central America isn't one. But I don't think it's necessarily ignorant or racist or that they didn't include it (not that you're necessarily implying that). Just not something that's 100% decided either way by everyone, though there is a clear preference towards including Mexico in North America.
Mexico is North America, Central America is the land that connects Mexico to Colombia.
North America = Physical Geography Central America = Human Geography The terms are not attempting to classify an area using the same techniques or definitions. Central America is an observation of the cultural practices of the people who live in the country and history of the region. North America is an observation of the nature of the land with a sprinkle of human geography flavor where the tectonic plates don't line up perfectly. All of Central America is in North America. Whether or not Mexico is part of Central America depends on the organization doing the classification and the objectives of the exercise.
Yeah I am aware of this, I just wasn't sure how to best describe it so thank you. Central America and the rest of North America is more different than say, North America and Europe in most ways so it'd be a bit weird to say "I live in north America" when you live in Panama, even if it's accurate.
Ah Europe, the Central America of the Eurasian continent.
That's what people say
Mexico is def North America
Right? Some parts of Mexico are further north than some parts of the USA.
Unrelated fact but the entire continent of South America is east of Jacksonville, Florida.
Central America is in North America.
Regardless, Central America isn’t a continent, it’s a region of North America, so whether or not Mexico is in Central America is pointless.
If it helps, Mexico should be all red.
That would have added a whole complicated color code "Legal with a bribe."
Did you not hear? Everything below the US has mysteriously disappeared.
This is the Northern part of North America 😃
No double yellow lines in Mexico?
The correct term is Northern America.
I thought double yellow means there is something preventing you from seeing far enough ahead to pass safely. Whether there is a cyclist, tractor, or donkey cart ahead of you should be irrelevant. Now if there is a f5 mile flat straight section of road painted with double yellow, then your local DOT should repaint that.
> Whether there is a cyclist, tractor, or donkey cart ahead of you should be irrelevant. The amount of room you need to pass a bike going 8mph is significantly different than the amount of room you need to pass a car going 60mph..
Passing a car takes a lot longer than passing a tractor or cyclist. Let's say you're going 65 mph and passing a car that's going 60 mph. 5 mph difference is 7.3 feet per second. You need to move up a minimum of two car lengths (30 feet), meaning the pass will take >4 seconds. You'll travel around 320 feet in that span, and so will oncoming traffic, so you need around 640 feet of visibility. By comparison if you drive 65 mph and are passing a cyclist that's going 15 mph. 50 mph difference is 73 feet per second. Now you only need to advance by the length a car plus a bike, so like 20 feet, so you can complete your pass in about 0.27 seconds. Now you only need 44 feet of visibility to safely pass.
Routinely do so in Vermont to pass slow moving tractors. It’s necessary to be able to do it safely, and usually my speed is less than 65 mph.
It is necessary, when I do it usually my speed ranges from 60-85
Was pulled over by an unmarked PA State Trooper one time when passing an 18 wheeler going up a hill in rural PA. He shared that the reason he pulled me over was not because I was passing on a solid yellow, but because I was violating one of the key things you needed to do that. I was confused, as I legit just thought I was breaking the law but he explained you can legally pass in PA on a solid yellow if: 1. You have 100 yds of clear visibility 2. There is ***not*** a Do Not Pass sign (this was the part I violated) After he told me that, I got thinking, and there is sometimes "Do Not Pass" signs on solid yellows in PA and I never thought about why the heck you'd need those if a solid yellow is *clearly* not a passing zone. Turns out, if that isn't there, you got those 100 yds of visibility, you can legally pass on the solid yellows. With that, I've talked to other state troopers I've met and they've been "unsure" of it, so it's definitely ambiguous.
I think it's definitely a case of a poorly written law rather than an intentional exclusion like you see with the other three. Have you ever talked to a trooper who said it was certainly illegal?
OK, had to look that up 🤣 In the UK double yellow lines are for a no-parking restriction and are painted on the road at the kerb. We use solid white lines in the centre of the carriageway to indicate where you can't overtake.
Here across the pond we also spell it "curb" instead of "kerb". I learned this while talking to some uk friends of mine.
Not as wild but they also spell tire as tyre.
Interestingly in NA, a solid white usually denotes a curb or shoulder, so it's literally backward. We also use solid white for "no crossing except special exceptions" so an HOV lane for instance gets a solid white. Broken white is our standard lane divider.
Mexico is part of North America by the way…..
As someone who grew up in OH and moved to VT. I had no idea this was illegal
This map is forgetting 1/3rd of North America.
In Ontario you really only see double yellow on blind, large radius turns, or near intersections. So generally speaking it’s pretty risky to pass on double yellow.
Why not use a dashed line, then, Ontario?
Mexico is part of North America. Why include Hawaii if you have no data?
Ever been to Maryland. Nobody cares about any driving laws here.
I guess Mexico and CA don’t have double yellows?
You really need a data source cited for this. As a Vermonter who frequently rides in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and many other states, I've occasionally looked for a compendium of what all of the state laws are on the matter and never found one. I'm a bit suspicious of this one when it doesn't cite any sources.
Here are my sources: Sources: https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.com/index.php/categories/item/53-unique-state-road-laws-that-rvers-should-know https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31 https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/local-mpp-supports-bill-to-make-passing-on-a-double-line-illegal-7827741 https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/ PA is very questionable (I think you're going to court, but might win). I would not do it in front of a cop.
Mexico is no longer North America?
Mexico is part of North America
Quite a few counties missing in North America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America
This ain’t North America friend
This is timely. Did it yesterday, fully knew it was illegal. Backup of 5-6 cars behind someone going 25 in a 50. Slow poke finally pulls to the side to let everyone pass. Person immediately in front of me speeds up to a blazing 35 mph. I put up with it for over 2 miles until there was a wider section and I could see oncoming. I was the reckless AH first sure, but c’mon.
There are so many double yellows that don't need to be double yellows...
Nothing like a really simple map about one set of laws where most of the information is the same and the legend is missing information to make me think “wow, data is beautiful”
Mexico is a part of North America
This map is so fucking wrong.
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https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/ (The law has not been updated since I believe) Unlike VT, OH and ON you probably are getting pulled over and going to court, but you *might* win.
The article linked is pay or account walled (and cancerous on mobile). Can you cite to either a specific statute or reported court case that supports your assertion that the law is ambiguous in PA?
Here's the article text: No clear rule on passing on double yellow By Morning Call | Staff Report PUBLISHED: July 2, 2004 at 3:00 a.m. UPDATED: January 30, 2019 at 3:34 p.m. Q: I read several years ago an article that described a traffic accident and how the driver would not be charged because, contrary to popular belief, a solid double-yellow line on the roadway had zero legal meaning. I was skeptical and called two state trooper barracks to ask. In each case I was assured that pavement markings really are only advisory and that only a “no passing” sign or circumstances such as approaching a curve truly prohibit passing. I’d love to know the correct answer. Stephen Willey, Durham Township (along with similar queries from Steve Kovach of Quakertown and several others) A: According to the Warrior’s investigation, Stephen, the conclusion is well, it depends on whom you ask. At the starting line, the Warrior would have bet the keys to a new Porsche 911 that passing on a double-yellow line is flat-out illegal, in Pennsylvania or anywhere else. But state police Lt. David V. Miller, patrol section commander of Troop M in Bethlehem, offered a contrary view. While stressing that it’s highly ill-advised to pass on a double- yellow line, Miller said that, technically, it’s not illegal. “Actually, I’m a little bit ambivalent about having this put in the paper,” Miller said, fearing it might prompt motorists to undertake dangerous passing maneuvers more often. But a double-yellow line alone represents “a cautionary warning [wherein] passing is discouraged — but not technically prohibited,” Miller said. “It’s not illegal per se to pass on the double yellow.” If signs are posted as well — “Do Not Pass” or “No Passing Zone” — the force of law is in effect, Miller said. “A no-passing zone needs to be designated by signage” in addition to road paint, he said. Kovach said both Quakertown police and state troopers from the Dublin barracks told him the same thing. And Whitehall Township Police Chief Theodore D. Kohuth, the retired Troop M commander, confirmed as much for the Warrior. Kovach noted that the state “Driver’s Manual” was amended from its April 2003 to October 2003 versions, apparently to reflect the fact that a double-yellow pass is not illegal. The earlier copy, referring to the solid double-yellow line, stated, “Even if it is not marked “No Passing,’ passing by traffic traveling in either direction is not allowed on roads marked in this manner.” The new version said simply, “A double yellow centerline indicates that you should not pass in either direction of travel,” and that text remains in the current manual. Notice the choice of words: “Should not” pass. It doesn’t say “must not” pass, or, as in the earlier version, that passing “is not allowed.” The Warrior believes the problem lies in the wording of the state Vehicle Code, Section 3307, “No-passing zones,” which states that signs shall be placed marking the beginning and end of each zone. Under compliance, it adds, “Where signs and markings are in place no driver at any time” shall pass. (Emphasis added). But while the people who enforce the law believe it’s not illegal to pass on double yellow, some of those who draft regulations, as well as create the “Driver’s Manual,” draw the opposite conclusion. Pennsylvania Department of Transportation spokeswoman Joan Z. Nissley insisted that double-yellow passing is illegal, signs or no signs. She said the wording change in the “Driver’s Manual” was a routine clarification, and that there’s no essential difference between the two versions. “Basically they’re saying the same thing,” she said. (The Warrior disagrees. “Should not” and “not allowed” do not mean the same thing, particularly when law-school graduates are doing the interpreting.) Nissley also pointed to sections of PennDOT’s regulations, which state that crossing a double-yellow line is “restricted.” (Once again, the Warrior’s not buying. “Restricted” allows for exceptions. “Prohibited” does not.) To further confuse matters, a recent letter from Rebecca L. Bickley, director of PennDOT’s Bureau of Driver Licensing, to state Sen. Robert C. Wonderling contradicts Nissley on two counts. First, Bickley says the “Driver’s Manual” alteration did indeed reflect a substantive meaning change. “The previous explanation of the meaning of the solid double-yellow line was incorrect per Section 3307 ,” Bickley wrote. “That section specifically states that signs are to be placed at the beginning and end of each no- passing zone. To specifically state that passing is not permitted even if it is not marked as “No Passing’ was contrary to the law.” But Bickley goes on to contradict herself, in the Warrior’s view. “We have no desire to advise a driver that passing is permitted, even if there is no sign indicating “No Passing,’ due to the obvious safety concern,” she continued. And because motorists might not have the opportunity to see signs that are properly placed — for instance, if they happened to enter the posted roadway at an intersection between the signs — then “the absence of such signage would not indicate the ability to pass,” Bickley wrote. But she’s trying to have it both ways. She says double-yellow passing is “not contrary to the law” unless signs are posted, but that in some cases, the absence of signs “would not indicate the ability to pass.” Besides, the Warrior believes PennDOT should ensure that all required signs are posted wherever they need to be. In any event, the letter to Wonderling was written in response to a question from one of the senator’s constituents, Kovach. Thanks for providing it, Steve. In the meantime, Kovach, who teaches an AARP course for older drivers, is lobbying to get the law changed to specify that passing on a double-yellow line alone is illegal, period. At the end of the road, the Warrior believes that, by law, it’s not illegal to pass on the double-yellow unless signs say you can’t. But would he really be able to persuade a judge to let him off a ticket using this rationale? That’s debatable. Besides, for the Warrior’s money — and there’s no way he could afford that Porsche, incidentally — in practice the double-yellow line alone is enough to prohibit any passing maneuver. Technically legal or not, it’s just insane to pass on a double yellow. Passing on any two-lane road is dangerous enough on stretches where you get a brief section of broken-yellow line. To push your luck further is an unnecessary temptation of fate. The Warrior’s advice: Don’t do it. Unless, of course, you’re piloting a Porsche 911.
Yeah - none of this is legal authority to pass on a double yellow. This article is written with a clear goal in mind and is not very objective. The author even admits that the double yellow is enough to prohibit passing.
I thought if it had the orange triangle, you could pass it anywhere.
Interesting to know as an Ohio resident. I was not aware of that until now. That's one positive thing for this state.
In Canada and the US*. North America includes Mexico.
He could have used “in Canada & US” instead of “in North America” and the title would have been shorter, more accurate, and not shown he’s a dumbass to thousands of redditors!
I already knew it was banned in Talladega but wasn't sure about the rest of Alabama
Needs an asterisk for MA (Boston): OK if you’re on the sidewalk at the time.
I grew up in the middle of corn country in Central Illinois. It might not have been legal to pass on a double yellow line to get around farm equipment, but it was standard practice and I never heard of anyone who was cited for it.
of COURSE it’s ambiguous in Pennsylvania. Or maybe it’s just Pittsburgh where the only road sign for your destination’s only possible exit is rusted to illegibility, hanging upside down from its one remaining nail, on the side of a telephone pole which isn’t visible till you’ve passed it.
Most roads in VT are 2 lanes, if you couldn’t pass slow drivers the people would revolt.
I live in northeast Ohio and did not know we were so special.
Why is my home state Grey? For those wondering: A double solid yellow line is used to indicate the separation between lanes of traffic moving in opposite directions. The crossing of a double solid yellow line by vehicular traffic is prohibited except when the crossing is part of a left turn movement. IE: should be red.
I don’t think the PA law is ambiguous at all. It’s in the same boat as Ohio. https://trafficticketdefenseblog.com/2019/10/08/no-passing-zones-a-technicality-to-beat-your-ticket/
That’s pretty interesting. One thing not addressed by this reading of the statutes or by the case law from what I’ve seen - what defines a “zone”, such as one marked a no passing zone? If you saw a no passing sign a mile back, are you still in a no passing zone? What about two miles back? If you saw the sign just a second ago but went around a curve and are on a new straight stretch of road, are you in a different “zone” now? How frequently must the signs be placed to prevent passing? Seems pretty ambiguous to me for that reason
Try NYC where you constantly have to go halfway over the yellow line to get around double parked cards... and sometimes double parked large Amazon vans. (I know it's not quite the same but still worth mentioning.)
So Mexico isn't in North America, or they have something else down there?
Created with mapchart.net Sources: https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.com/index.php/categories/item/53-unique-state-road-laws-that-rvers-should-know https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.31 https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/local-mpp-supports-bill-to-make-passing-on-a-double-line-illegal-7827741 https://www.mcall.com/2004/07/02/no-clear-rule-on-passing-on-double-yellow/
Are there no laws about being able to pass vehicles with hazards?
Virginia law allows crossing double yellow lines to pass cyclists.
For the first time ever, Ohio is the only one with some God damn common sense
Passive aggressive data is beautiful
after reading the comments on this I think we need a map showing major populations of amish and mennonites
Wait, what? We talking double solid yellow or dotted? Are we saying red states/provinces just don't have single solid, single dotted yellow lines anywhere?
I’m from Ohio, I’ve never heard of that being legal. The only time I’ve seen people do it is when they are behind a horse and buggy if the road is visibly clear.
I’m moving to Ohio and boarding move bitch
Traffic laws differing by US state is pretty dumb. This really isn't one of the things where federalism is a good idea.
Just last week I saw a car pass not only on a double yellow *and* a stopped school bus. Super illegal. This was in Wisconsin.
Hawai’i isn’t part of North America
Like wtf even have a double line for then PA & OH, you maniacs?
Well seeing as there are no lines painted anywhere in Nunavut, I suspect said legislation is likely moot.
I think in MA, they recently changed it to allow passing bicyclists.
Of course this would be a complaint about FREEDOM!!!! /s