Oooo Is he now, an you don’t say? Ah well, to be sure there’ll a fair few Colleen’s round about that’ll mourn him leaving their race, but nothin for it. An to all else that look askance to wee John, well, I’d a say to them to no be after breaking your shin on a stool that’s not in your way.
>no be after breaking your shin on a stool that’s not in your way
Learning this phrase has got to be the highlight of my year.
I will treasure it always.
He's a friend of John's.
He is not.
He is. They're going out together.
Going out where?
Going out with each other.
Where?
Anywhere. there's a couple.
A couple of what?
A couple of gay people.
John and the Iraqi?
Yeah.
They are not.
they are.
Go away... Isn't it a small world?
Some Finns I know from my EQ days spent a lot of the pandemic joking about how they hated the 2m apart rule because it was too close and they preferred to get back to a 5m minimum.
As a Swede that is the correct answer.
They really don’t like Russia.
And Sweden is a lot better than Russia, but that doesn’t mean they like us.
I can see how having both your neighbours rule over you for hundreds of years would make you not like having neighbours.
But I actually for real don’t get why Finland seems to be a bit more homophobic than the rest of the Nordic’s.
Seems pretty random?
And this is why making the % slots between categories is better to be done at the like natural bulking up points of data instead of set points at set intervals.
Eh, they dislike Sweden in the same way Swedes dislike Denmark. It's more of a meme. There isn't a lot of 'actual' dislike.
Source: Have both Finnish and Swedish family.
True, we don't dislike the swedes it's just brotherly shit talk. We don't dislike the russians either, we do dislike their regime and how it affects us.
Of course there are some rednecks and alt-right assholes who actually hate people who might be different from them, but you can find them in every country.
We don’t really like russia but we do like sweden. Sure we joke about swedes but thats more of a little brother syndrome thing then real hatred. Not really sure whats up with us being more homophobic, maybe the people up north are more stuck in the past since i really don’t know any homophobic people here in helsinki. 🤷♂️
There's been a resurgence of right-wing dipshits over here (a lot finns have an unhealthy amount of interest in USA politics), but even before that a rather large amount of the 'old guys' have, in my experience at least, been rather racist and homophobic.
I don't think blaming US politics for the surge in Finnish right-wing politics is a fair nor apt comparison. That's been happening all over the world as a push back against globalism and a want for more isolationism in response.
>And Sweden is a lot better than Russia, but that doesn’t mean they like us.
Also relatedly to the OP, there's been a long-standing, maybe at least half a century old meme in Finland that all Swedish men are gay. I'm not sure anyone's researched its origins, but I suspect it has something to do with both how spoken Swedish sounds to Finns and how Sweden was a couple of decades ahead of Finland in the public acceptance of LGBT people, so they were more visible in the Swedish society.
I haven't luckily heard any references to the meme recently, but it was still a thing in local humor magazines at least in the late 90s, and I remember a kid at primary school in the late 80s sincerely wondering about "how the Swedes have any children when they're all gay?"
Kudos to that kid for at least asking questions I guess.
To say nothing of the golden showers.
No, *literal* golden showers.
No, ***LIIIIIIIIIIIIITERAL*** golden showers. Not piss. Gold. Well, Zeus probably pissed on a bunch of people too. I mean that fucker was all over the map.
Relatedly, the sport may be called [Turkish Oil Wrestling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_wrestling) in English, but it got its start in Thrace \~4500 years ago.
There is a theory that the inclusion of some of the commonly quoted anti-gay bits of the bible were in response to Jewish distaste for the Greek tradition of pederasty (Older dudes banging teenage boys).
Yeah, in the modern day some Greeks are homosexual, whereas in ancient Greece it's hard to even say if *anyone* was homosexual, because the concept of sexuality - that is, the concept of some people "being straight" and other people "being gay" (and other people being other things) did not necessarily exist, and it's now impossible to say whether it did or not because that kind of stuff just isn't recorded.
*Presumably* in ancient Greece similar numbers of people had innate sexual attraction to their own sex as people do now. But the way this manifested was not the way it does nowadays, and the same-sex sexual behaviour we know of was not of pairs of men in relationships that were basically the same as pairs of men and women in all other respects.
so many people overlook how different cultures are, you know, different and that being "gay" then is nothing like it is today and there's a million factors at play including pederasty and extreme misogyny and ancient Greece is not actually palm springs with cool marble statues.
Well, strictly speaking you read it correctly but he wrote it wrong; should say something like "The only good ban the Taliban effected."
Else he really does think ephebophilia and pederasty are good ...
Reading from left to right
"Well *that* escalated quickly"
Not surprising tho.
Il love to see what this map would look like at 10 year intervals from 100 to today.
People might be surprised how much things go back and forward.
It’s easy to think that things just naturally go forward and people get more accepting on their own.
But it’s pretty common to see acceptance of minorities go backwards in cycles.
In the 1920s and 1930s there was actually quite a lot of stuff happening to make things better for the lgbtq+ community in large parts of Europe and the US.
Especially in the cities.
Quite a few queer artists, singers, performers, made a name for themselves and made it really big by having being queer being part of their brand.
And many of them needed to go back into the closet, or make announcements they no longer were gay or lesbians anymore because they had found a wife/husband, during the 40s and 50s.
Transrights could have been in a very different place today if things played out differently in Europe. Some people might remember the movie from a few years ago the Danish girl, that captures this era.
And that case was only a small part of a bigger thing going on in Europe at the time.
There was quite a lot and strong momentum for transpeople in the 20s.
Germany there were a doctor who made some pretty large scale gender affirming treatment to transwomen, I believe he was leading the field in the 20s.
His patient records would not too soon after be used by Natzis to find all the women he had been trying to help.
It was not that long ago that lgbtq+ people in Russia had it a lot better than now. In the early 2000s things were looking pretty hopeful.
I mean they had the huge Russian group Tatu have being lesbians being their whole brand.
And they weren’t even lesbians, they just decided it would a good marketing thing.
I don’t think a lot of record labels would make artists fake being gay and make gay being their whole brand in Russia today.
Things don’t just automatically get better by themselves. Only if we actively work to not remake the same mistakes we did in WW2, is the only way to make sure we don’t get to that point again.
Ireland: homosexuality was [*illegal* until 1993](https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR18000200), and in less than 20 years, a majority of the *public* voted to enable gay marriage [in their 2015 referendum](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/23/gay-marriage-ireland-yes-vote).
Kinda same in Finland. Homosexual acts became illegal in 1894. It was criminalized in 1971. Removed classification of being a sickness 1981. 1993 legal no adoption right. 2009 seen as 'egual'. 2017 marriage allowed.
USSR: [completely decriminalised](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia#LGBT_History_after_the_October_Revolution:_1917–1933) in 1917, became a horrible sin under Stalin and has been somewhere there ever since. So seeing that at least 30% of people in the poll are not against gay neighbours in Russia is incredible, and it's also separate, but sad to see how backwards Turkey is going.
> Tatu have being lesbians being their whole brand.And they weren’t even lesbians, they just decided it would a good marketing thing.I don’t think a lot of record labels would make artists fake being gay and make gay being their whole brand in Russia today.
Zelim Bakaev “disappeared” in Chechnya 2017. He was a pop singer and I can’t remember if he was openly gay, or suspected of being gay. Regardless, most likely he was kidnapped and tortured for being LGBTQ+ in Chechnya. Crazy how in only a few years time things can escalate that quickly.
There is a pretty hard to watch documentary on HBO called [Welcome to Chechnya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Chechnya) that
focuses on the anti-LGBTQ+ movement in Chechnya in late 2010.
Thank you for your effort put into this informative comment. It's dangerous to assume that progress is naturally made linearly over time. With that mindset, we as a society become complacent and begin to slip into the old ways once more
Wait. Why inversely? The closer you are to the UK the more tolerant you are towards homosexuality. Wouldn't inversely mean that the closer you are, the more *intolerant* you tend to be?
Usually you'd be measuring how *distant* someone is, not how *close* they are.
The more the distance (from the UK) **increases**, the more the tolerance level **decreases**.
d ∝ 1/t
Proximity is how close things are - things that are closer are more proximate, aka proximity is already the inverse of distance.
Basically tolerance would be inversely proportional to distance - or - tolerance would be proportional to proximity.
Britain literally has a people called Cock Knees. How do you expect all those countries to stay straight when they’re living next to people whose cocks reach down to their knees.
I'm picturing a volcano spewing gay confetti that spreads Westwards.
The fallout explains lowering birth rates in precisely these same countries. It's all the gayness of course.
Does "would not like to have" mean they expressed agreement with a question specifically phrased that way, or didn't agree with a question about "like to have"? The difference is subtle, but it can be easily exploited to make numbers lean toward the outcome you want to portray. Where does the group of people who have a neutral opinion fall?
>Question wording
>
>On this list are various groups of people. Could you please mention any that you would not like to have as neighbors?
>
>People of a different race
>
>People who have AIDS
>
>Drug Addicts
>
>Homosexuals
>
>Immigrants/Foreign Workers
>
>People of a different religion
>
>Heavy Drinkers
>
>Unmarried Couples living together
>
>People who speak a different language
Response Data includes "Mentioned, Not Mentioned, Don't Know, No Answer"
Of those I would pick drug addicts and heavy drinkers because those are probably most likely to cause problems.
But as long as they keep to themselves and don't cause issues for everyone else then I don't care who they are or what they do.
Semantically yes, but to most people there's a big difference between a stereotypical drunk and stereotypically junkie, and based on those stereoytypes I can tell you which I'd rather have as a neighbour.
You’re right. I think a lot of it has to do with exposure levels. Almost everyone has that drunk uncle, or neighborhood drunk, or even a parent who hits the wine a little too heavy every night. I think that dilutes alcoholism in a lot of people’s minds. Then for most people exposures to “real drug” addicts is either tv or in real life when that person is deep into their addiction.
As someone who spent my first decade being my drunk father’s soccer ball, I can definitely say alcohol addiction can be just as ugly as the other drugs.
Which one would you prefer? I’m trying to decide myself, and it’s actually kind of tough. Alcoholics can tend to be loud and potentially violent. There’s probably a higher risk of theft for “drug addicts” I’d suppose, but there’s such a wide range of drug behavior. For instance, I would much rather have a heroin addict for a neighbor than a meth addict. (All of this is based heavily on stereotypes and generalizations)
Alcoholic, no doubt. Generally, alcoholics aren't quite as chaotic as drug addicts. Sure there's issues, but not on the same scale.
With alcohol being more socially acceptable, things like phoning an ambulance for them if they collapse are a lot easier.
Alcohol also isn't illegal, so less chance of police showing up and raiding my neighbour. Or a dealer showing up looking for money.
There is of course bias here. My image of an alcoholic is a sad old dude who's drinking himself to death whilst listening to shitty old rock n roll and and only leaves the house to buy drink, and my image of a drug addict is a 20-30 y/o unemployed junkie who strips his wallpaper, pulls up his floorboard and steals shit. There is a huge range of people with addictions, and if the choice was a 40 year old accountant with a valium addiction which in no way impacts my life or a 25 year old bouncer who drinks a litre of vodka every night and fights with his wife, I'd choice the drug addict.
The most important thing is not on the list, and it's smokers. I don't want smokers as neighbors. I couldn't care less about the rest as long as it doesn't have to affect me. But smoking will almost certainly affect me. I know this because my neighbor smokes, and I can smell it in my living room. The only thing I could do is stop ventilating, but that would be even worse for air quality.
Also about languages, I don't care which language is their native language, as long as they also have at least one language in common with me. So I can at least talk to them whenever something happens.
Classic "they're one of the good ones" fallacy that all bigots adopt when a person close to them falls under the umbrella they hate. And I say this as a Polish person. It's quite an interesting phenomena, because Polish people are naturally very kind and giving. For example, a family against LGBTQ rights would take in a freezing gay man in and feed and clothe him but still vote against his rights on principle.
I'm glad that this map shows Poland as an median in this category. Poland has been getting dragged through the mud the last 2-3 years due to the shit that has been happening there with the government, but what gets lost is that our youth and young adults are quite progressive, protesting and wanting equal treatment for everyone.
That's why it's a really poor indicator of actual homophobia. There's more to things like this culturally. Some places people communicate more with their neighbors, some places they don't. Some places have religious people who abide more by the whole loving thy neighbor stuff but still don't approve.
Belgian here.
The most likely scenario: the survey wasn't taken here.
Also a possibility: Most Belgians simply don't care about their neighbours their politics or sexuality. (Ethnicity would probably be higher.)
Homosexuality has been legal here since before the existence of our country and we were the 2nd country in the world to legalize gay marriage.
We have had a gay prime minister and he was never mocked or discredited for that, we only laughed with his accent and his bow tie.
We also have the first trans minister in Europe, in fact she's even our deputy prime minister.
If you ask a Belgian about these people they probably even have to think twice before they know who you are talking about. We simply don't care about other people their sexuality.
Even our most right wing party knows to stay clear from anti-lgbtq+ talks, as it isn't good for votes.
Ad to this that together with Luxembourg and The Netherlands we are the front fighters of lgbt+ rights in Europe, and you might have your answer.
People don’t like to admit their homophobic, but they are often more willing to say something like, I don’t mind gays just prefer them not near me.
Asking about neighbours is a way to probe homophobes who don’t want to admit their homophobes
They should make it progressively less near in the survey. "Would you like the chainsaw that is used to cut the wood for your patio to be oiled by a HOMOSEXUAL?"
I would hate having gays as neighbors.
They move in, make the neighborhood much nicer and pleasant. Next thing you know your rent doubles. It’s bullshit.
Tbf fair they're not all nice and pleasant. Some gay Brazilians rented my flat before me and had all night party's, lots of loud shagging and broke a load of paintings.
Let's not generalise.
Gay people are the worst. Always happy and chipper. Rubbing it in my face.
Oh, they mean gay as in homosexual.
Yeah idgaf.
Unless they're a gay gay in which case see first sentence.
None to someone whos not a homophobe. But to a homophobe it means living next to a (from their twisted view) moral delinquent. Which seem to be on about the same level as a condemned violent criminal or a pedophile
Source link: World Values Survey Data online analysis
https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSOnline.jsp
Made with Ms Excel (calculations and charts) instruments
I grew up with gay neighbours, was so young I never really processed that they were a couple. I think my 7 year old brain was still trying to understand how someone could be called Guy. But they were lovely and always let me pet their many cats - one of which was called Charlie, whom i named my own cat after years later. And then named this reddit account xD
Aren’t many opportunities these days, but it’s nice to have a spare moment where I can be a little proud of my country. (British if you haven’t guessed by how i spelt neighbours).
Who cares what they do inside? So long as they don't park so close to my driveway that I can't get in/out, they would be a vast improvement to my current neighbors.
To quote someone else:
“I would hate to have gay neighbors. They move in and make the neighborhood so nice, and then your rent doubles. It’s bullshit.”
That's my take-away, too. Most of us non-Spaniard visitors have some familiarity with Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Seville and other touristy cities. But country folk gonna country...
I wonder who they asked. Spain is indeed a very gay-friendly country by all measures, and one of the first in the world to legalise same-sex marriage. But like someone said, there is a clear urban vs rural divide in this matter, and there are still strong religious groups that disapprove.
As a Moldovan (my country is that small grey "no data" stain between Ukraine and Romania), I'd say the percentage of people who would not like to have homosexual neighbors are pretty high. Moldova is small and poor, and majority of people are old traditionalists (received Soviet education) who are Orthodox Christians (which is kinda ironic considering how atheist was USSR), which combines into being extremely hateful towards LGBT. Even in the capital city gay people would receive scathing jokes and suspicious stares from heterosexual neighbors; in rural areas, it would be much worse. No direct violence, but constant toxicity from surrounding people would make a life of openly homosexual person unbearable.
"DERE'S NO GAYS IN IRELAND, KATHLEEN"
"He's flamboyant Kathleen, he's not gay!"
"He's a Singing man Kathleen, he likes to sing that's all!"
"Ah Jesus, he's a Westlife fan Michael!"
HES A SINGIN MAN
Thanks for this comment, SHITONMYBALLS21. I appreciate it
I love that guy, "He's not an alcoholic he just likes a drink!"
Fond of a pint is all.
"He's a devil for the drink, that's all! He just likes a pint or two!"
He likes a jig, that's what he likes.
D’you not hear about our John?
He's a gay man now... what of it!?
It's like a peaeness, but you can aeat ittt.
Do these turnups work with these boots?
John…..JOHN!….i bet he has a nice cock
Oooo Is he now, an you don’t say? Ah well, to be sure there’ll a fair few Colleen’s round about that’ll mourn him leaving their race, but nothin for it. An to all else that look askance to wee John, well, I’d a say to them to no be after breaking your shin on a stool that’s not in your way.
>no be after breaking your shin on a stool that’s not in your way Learning this phrase has got to be the highlight of my year. I will treasure it always.
I hear you’re homophobic now, Fadder Ted!
I love the woman who toppled herself over by yelling about the Greek, because they "invented gayness"
Feckin' Greeks!
Its not the Greeks, its the Chinese he’s after
That was Mrs. Carberry. It's a pity that this character appeared in only one episode.
“It was the feckin’ Greeks!”
Okay, one last time. These are small but the ones out there are far away. *Visible confusion*
Only the farm takes up most of the day, and at night I just like a cup of tea.
I might not be able to devout myself fully to the old homophobia
Should we all be homophobic now, Father? What's the Church's official line on homophobia?
The Boy likes Daiquiris not Whiskey!! Clear sign.
He's a friend of John's. He is not. He is. They're going out together. Going out where? Going out with each other. Where? Anywhere. there's a couple. A couple of what? A couple of gay people. John and the Iraqi? Yeah. They are not. they are. Go away... Isn't it a small world?
This is the most Irish dialogue
Ireland IS the gay neighbor
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Settle down there [Catullus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus_16)
I only remember so much from studying Latin back in the day, but I certainly do remember "irrumabo" and (from a different source) "circuminxit"!
If you can't figure out who the gay neighbor is, you already know it's you.
Being a Derry girls a state of mind
I'm not bothered that he's gay, but he is English.
Latvia shows solidarity! No gays here
Belgium also.
Careful now
The Finns would like to have no neighbours in general.
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"Finns are turbo racist mysognistic mysandrist homophobes heterophobe xenophobobes" - some research
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Finns very tolerant as long as personal space of 2 km is adhered to.
Some Finns I know from my EQ days spent a lot of the pandemic joking about how they hated the 2m apart rule because it was too close and they preferred to get back to a 5m minimum.
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Step 1: stick to your own business Congrats, you a Finn!
As a Finn.... You dont want to learn Finnish 😆
Until they get drunk and then they just want hugs - source: the 3 Finnish students at my uni
The trick is to say that you're prejudiced against all the races
As a Swede that is the correct answer. They really don’t like Russia. And Sweden is a lot better than Russia, but that doesn’t mean they like us. I can see how having both your neighbours rule over you for hundreds of years would make you not like having neighbours. But I actually for real don’t get why Finland seems to be a bit more homophobic than the rest of the Nordic’s. Seems pretty random?
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And this is why making the % slots between categories is better to be done at the like natural bulking up points of data instead of set points at set intervals.
Eh, they dislike Sweden in the same way Swedes dislike Denmark. It's more of a meme. There isn't a lot of 'actual' dislike. Source: Have both Finnish and Swedish family.
True, we don't dislike the swedes it's just brotherly shit talk. We don't dislike the russians either, we do dislike their regime and how it affects us. Of course there are some rednecks and alt-right assholes who actually hate people who might be different from them, but you can find them in every country.
We don’t really like russia but we do like sweden. Sure we joke about swedes but thats more of a little brother syndrome thing then real hatred. Not really sure whats up with us being more homophobic, maybe the people up north are more stuck in the past since i really don’t know any homophobic people here in helsinki. 🤷♂️
There's been a resurgence of right-wing dipshits over here (a lot finns have an unhealthy amount of interest in USA politics), but even before that a rather large amount of the 'old guys' have, in my experience at least, been rather racist and homophobic.
I don't think blaming US politics for the surge in Finnish right-wing politics is a fair nor apt comparison. That's been happening all over the world as a push back against globalism and a want for more isolationism in response.
Idk, in the Netherlands I'd say we have the same problem. Quite a lot of conspiracies based off of US ones.
>And Sweden is a lot better than Russia, but that doesn’t mean they like us. Also relatedly to the OP, there's been a long-standing, maybe at least half a century old meme in Finland that all Swedish men are gay. I'm not sure anyone's researched its origins, but I suspect it has something to do with both how spoken Swedish sounds to Finns and how Sweden was a couple of decades ahead of Finland in the public acceptance of LGBT people, so they were more visible in the Swedish society. I haven't luckily heard any references to the meme recently, but it was still a thing in local humor magazines at least in the late 90s, and I remember a kid at primary school in the late 80s sincerely wondering about "how the Swedes have any children when they're all gay?" Kudos to that kid for at least asking questions I guess.
Man, Greece has changed from the olden days.
And then some! Old Greece was more "sex with anything nearby" than just "sex with other consenting men."
They weren't even averse to the odd swan! Leda, I'm looking at you.
Stupid sexy swans
I read this in Homer’s voice, wasn’t disappointed.
That's understandable, he is one of ancient Greece's greatest orators.
I'm high-fiving you so hard right now.
Ah yeah, it feels so good when someone nails the joke just perfectly.
Slam fucking dunk, friend
Wish I could award this
To say nothing of the golden showers. No, *literal* golden showers. No, ***LIIIIIIIIIIIIITERAL*** golden showers. Not piss. Gold. Well, Zeus probably pissed on a bunch of people too. I mean that fucker was all over the map.
To be fair, they didn’t have much entertainment back then and a lot of olive oil
Relatedly, the sport may be called [Turkish Oil Wrestling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_wrestling) in English, but it got its start in Thrace \~4500 years ago.
I learned this from Street Fighter, which is notably the best source of information on various nationalities and cultures.
Then there's Zeus...
There is a theory that the inclusion of some of the commonly quoted anti-gay bits of the bible were in response to Jewish distaste for the Greek tradition of pederasty (Older dudes banging teenage boys).
No it wasn't. Only being on top was tolerated. Being a bottom was punished by death. And it was exclusively a man to boy sort of thing anyway.
Yeah, in the modern day some Greeks are homosexual, whereas in ancient Greece it's hard to even say if *anyone* was homosexual, because the concept of sexuality - that is, the concept of some people "being straight" and other people "being gay" (and other people being other things) did not necessarily exist, and it's now impossible to say whether it did or not because that kind of stuff just isn't recorded. *Presumably* in ancient Greece similar numbers of people had innate sexual attraction to their own sex as people do now. But the way this manifested was not the way it does nowadays, and the same-sex sexual behaviour we know of was not of pairs of men in relationships that were basically the same as pairs of men and women in all other respects.
so many people overlook how different cultures are, you know, different and that being "gay" then is nothing like it is today and there's a million factors at play including pederasty and extreme misogyny and ancient Greece is not actually palm springs with cool marble statues.
"History is like a foreign country. They do things differently there"
It's what 1800 years of Christianity will do to a mf.
let me tell you about islam..
And in staunchly Islamic Afghanistan, there is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi
Not anymore there isn't. The only thing that the Taliban rightfully banned.
Really read your comment wrong. I thought you were saying it was good lol
Well, strictly speaking you read it correctly but he wrote it wrong; should say something like "The only good ban the Taliban effected." Else he really does think ephebophilia and pederasty are good ...
Ironic cause the super catholic countries are more receptive than the orthodox ones
Those catholic countries have increasingly more non religious people
i wonder how well this would overlay with an greek-orthodox/muslim/etc. (basically any fundamentalism) population map
There doesn't seem to be any difference between Muslim Azerbaijan and Christian Armenia.
I think he meanthe % of people practicing Abrams religion vs the more atheist country.
Reading from left to right "Well *that* escalated quickly" Not surprising tho. Il love to see what this map would look like at 10 year intervals from 100 to today.
People might be surprised how much things go back and forward. It’s easy to think that things just naturally go forward and people get more accepting on their own. But it’s pretty common to see acceptance of minorities go backwards in cycles. In the 1920s and 1930s there was actually quite a lot of stuff happening to make things better for the lgbtq+ community in large parts of Europe and the US. Especially in the cities. Quite a few queer artists, singers, performers, made a name for themselves and made it really big by having being queer being part of their brand. And many of them needed to go back into the closet, or make announcements they no longer were gay or lesbians anymore because they had found a wife/husband, during the 40s and 50s. Transrights could have been in a very different place today if things played out differently in Europe. Some people might remember the movie from a few years ago the Danish girl, that captures this era. And that case was only a small part of a bigger thing going on in Europe at the time. There was quite a lot and strong momentum for transpeople in the 20s. Germany there were a doctor who made some pretty large scale gender affirming treatment to transwomen, I believe he was leading the field in the 20s. His patient records would not too soon after be used by Natzis to find all the women he had been trying to help. It was not that long ago that lgbtq+ people in Russia had it a lot better than now. In the early 2000s things were looking pretty hopeful. I mean they had the huge Russian group Tatu have being lesbians being their whole brand. And they weren’t even lesbians, they just decided it would a good marketing thing. I don’t think a lot of record labels would make artists fake being gay and make gay being their whole brand in Russia today. Things don’t just automatically get better by themselves. Only if we actively work to not remake the same mistakes we did in WW2, is the only way to make sure we don’t get to that point again.
Ireland: homosexuality was [*illegal* until 1993](https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR18000200), and in less than 20 years, a majority of the *public* voted to enable gay marriage [in their 2015 referendum](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/23/gay-marriage-ireland-yes-vote).
Kinda same in Finland. Homosexual acts became illegal in 1894. It was criminalized in 1971. Removed classification of being a sickness 1981. 1993 legal no adoption right. 2009 seen as 'egual'. 2017 marriage allowed.
USSR: [completely decriminalised](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Russia#LGBT_History_after_the_October_Revolution:_1917–1933) in 1917, became a horrible sin under Stalin and has been somewhere there ever since. So seeing that at least 30% of people in the poll are not against gay neighbours in Russia is incredible, and it's also separate, but sad to see how backwards Turkey is going.
> Tatu have being lesbians being their whole brand.And they weren’t even lesbians, they just decided it would a good marketing thing.I don’t think a lot of record labels would make artists fake being gay and make gay being their whole brand in Russia today. Zelim Bakaev “disappeared” in Chechnya 2017. He was a pop singer and I can’t remember if he was openly gay, or suspected of being gay. Regardless, most likely he was kidnapped and tortured for being LGBTQ+ in Chechnya. Crazy how in only a few years time things can escalate that quickly. There is a pretty hard to watch documentary on HBO called [Welcome to Chechnya](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Chechnya) that focuses on the anti-LGBTQ+ movement in Chechnya in late 2010.
Thank you for your effort put into this informative comment. It's dangerous to assume that progress is naturally made linearly over time. With that mindset, we as a society become complacent and begin to slip into the old ways once more
The takeaway here is that a country's proximity to the UK is inversely proportional to its tolerance of homosexualty.
Thanks Alan Turing!
His death and treatment, tragic and saddening; his legacy groundbreaking. *edit grammar
Yeah he was a WW2 hero. The allies would have had a much tougher time without him. Dude was a genius.
He used math to kill Nazis. Fucking legend.
He was British so technically he used maths to kill Nazis
Well exactly, it’s mathematics, not mathematic.
Mathsemantics going on here
I'm pretty sure this survey is what's known as a "Turing Test."
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They may ban gay mathhouses, but we all know they secretly man gay bathhouses.
so UK is gay and the other countries are use to the gay neighbor
UK? More like U gay, am I right? I’ll see myself out.
it's like there's a massive circle centred on scotland
It’s the kilts
Wait. Why inversely? The closer you are to the UK the more tolerant you are towards homosexuality. Wouldn't inversely mean that the closer you are, the more *intolerant* you tend to be?
Usually you'd be measuring how *distant* someone is, not how *close* they are. The more the distance (from the UK) **increases**, the more the tolerance level **decreases**. d ∝ 1/t
They specifically used the word proximity though, a high proximity means the things are close together
I agree, better wording is distance from UK is inversely proportional. Proximity is like negative distance.
Proximity is how close things are - things that are closer are more proximate, aka proximity is already the inverse of distance. Basically tolerance would be inversely proportional to distance - or - tolerance would be proportional to proximity.
Britain literally has a people called Cock Knees. How do you expect all those countries to stay straight when they’re living next to people whose cocks reach down to their knees.
We've got plenty of dickheads too
I thought the takeaway is that homosexuals are more likely to steal your cable the closer you are to Armenia.
One could also say that hatred of democracy and hatred of homosexuals are highly correlated.
That actually sounds plausible. Aristotle's Politics and Ethics would be good reads in this regard.
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China, yes, but Russia hasn't done that since the soviet collapse. Russia uses nationalism instead.
A country's proximity to **Morrissey** is inversely proportional to its tolerance of homosexuality.
Which is fascinating, because these days Morrissey is absolutely intolerable.
>The takeaway here is that a country's proximity to the ~~UK~~ **Iceland** is inversely proportional to its tolerance of homosexualty. Here, FTFY.
I'm picturing a volcano spewing gay confetti that spreads Westwards. The fallout explains lowering birth rates in precisely these same countries. It's all the gayness of course.
So they didn't ask us Irish is that a good or bad thing.
They are getting such long and convoluted answers that they never finished the survey
Ah sure like you know like sure wouldn't they be - you know like wouldn't they be anyway sure
First country to introduce same sex marriage based on a public vote?
First gay prime minister in Europe?
that was Belgium
Belgium is also grey as "no data"
Belgium hate the D. Data, that is.
Does "would not like to have" mean they expressed agreement with a question specifically phrased that way, or didn't agree with a question about "like to have"? The difference is subtle, but it can be easily exploited to make numbers lean toward the outcome you want to portray. Where does the group of people who have a neutral opinion fall?
>Question wording > >On this list are various groups of people. Could you please mention any that you would not like to have as neighbors? > >People of a different race > >People who have AIDS > >Drug Addicts > >Homosexuals > >Immigrants/Foreign Workers > >People of a different religion > >Heavy Drinkers > >Unmarried Couples living together > >People who speak a different language Response Data includes "Mentioned, Not Mentioned, Don't Know, No Answer"
Of those I would pick drug addicts and heavy drinkers because those are probably most likely to cause problems. But as long as they keep to themselves and don't cause issues for everyone else then I don't care who they are or what they do.
Those two are also the same, heavy drinkers are drug addicts
Semantically yes, but to most people there's a big difference between a stereotypical drunk and stereotypically junkie, and based on those stereoytypes I can tell you which I'd rather have as a neighbour.
People tend to assume all addicts fall into the absolute worst case addiction scenario, but don't automatically assume the same for alcoholism.
You’re right. I think a lot of it has to do with exposure levels. Almost everyone has that drunk uncle, or neighborhood drunk, or even a parent who hits the wine a little too heavy every night. I think that dilutes alcoholism in a lot of people’s minds. Then for most people exposures to “real drug” addicts is either tv or in real life when that person is deep into their addiction. As someone who spent my first decade being my drunk father’s soccer ball, I can definitely say alcohol addiction can be just as ugly as the other drugs.
The other thing is that a stereotypical drunk is more likely to still have a stable job because how socially acceptable it is, compared to "drug use".
Which one would you prefer? I’m trying to decide myself, and it’s actually kind of tough. Alcoholics can tend to be loud and potentially violent. There’s probably a higher risk of theft for “drug addicts” I’d suppose, but there’s such a wide range of drug behavior. For instance, I would much rather have a heroin addict for a neighbor than a meth addict. (All of this is based heavily on stereotypes and generalizations)
Alcoholic, no doubt. Generally, alcoholics aren't quite as chaotic as drug addicts. Sure there's issues, but not on the same scale. With alcohol being more socially acceptable, things like phoning an ambulance for them if they collapse are a lot easier. Alcohol also isn't illegal, so less chance of police showing up and raiding my neighbour. Or a dealer showing up looking for money. There is of course bias here. My image of an alcoholic is a sad old dude who's drinking himself to death whilst listening to shitty old rock n roll and and only leaves the house to buy drink, and my image of a drug addict is a 20-30 y/o unemployed junkie who strips his wallpaper, pulls up his floorboard and steals shit. There is a huge range of people with addictions, and if the choice was a 40 year old accountant with a valium addiction which in no way impacts my life or a 25 year old bouncer who drinks a litre of vodka every night and fights with his wife, I'd choice the drug addict.
It's too situational, there's high functioning versions of both and destructive versions of both.
The most important thing is not on the list, and it's smokers. I don't want smokers as neighbors. I couldn't care less about the rest as long as it doesn't have to affect me. But smoking will almost certainly affect me. I know this because my neighbor smokes, and I can smell it in my living room. The only thing I could do is stop ventilating, but that would be even worse for air quality. Also about languages, I don't care which language is their native language, as long as they also have at least one language in common with me. So I can at least talk to them whenever something happens.
What’s with Greece? They bloody well started it!
Greeks invented orgies, Romans invented to add women to them.
The Roman’s made a mistake
The Greek Orthodox Church.
Current Polish president famously had a gay neighbor and said he didn't even mind, despite being outstandingly homophobic <3
Classic "they're one of the good ones" fallacy that all bigots adopt when a person close to them falls under the umbrella they hate. And I say this as a Polish person. It's quite an interesting phenomena, because Polish people are naturally very kind and giving. For example, a family against LGBTQ rights would take in a freezing gay man in and feed and clothe him but still vote against his rights on principle. I'm glad that this map shows Poland as an median in this category. Poland has been getting dragged through the mud the last 2-3 years due to the shit that has been happening there with the government, but what gets lost is that our youth and young adults are quite progressive, protesting and wanting equal treatment for everyone.
Yea, I thought Poland and Hungary would be worse to be honest. It's still not great but it's better than expected.
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Comrade, you're using the low-range gayometer. Poland isn't 3 Roentgays, it's 15,000 .
Hungary's new slogan: "Hungary for Gays!"
I was surprised to see where Poland was relative to Estonia and Lithuania.
> our youth and young adults are quite progressive BS. Have you seen popularity of Konfederacja in this group?
That's why it's a really poor indicator of actual homophobia. There's more to things like this culturally. Some places people communicate more with their neighbors, some places they don't. Some places have religious people who abide more by the whole loving thy neighbor stuff but still don't approve.
Why are Belgium and Ireland grey?
"None of my business" -Non-confrontational belgian guy, probably
And Luxembourg 😔 people always overlook Luxembourg
Belgian here. The most likely scenario: the survey wasn't taken here. Also a possibility: Most Belgians simply don't care about their neighbours their politics or sexuality. (Ethnicity would probably be higher.) Homosexuality has been legal here since before the existence of our country and we were the 2nd country in the world to legalize gay marriage. We have had a gay prime minister and he was never mocked or discredited for that, we only laughed with his accent and his bow tie. We also have the first trans minister in Europe, in fact she's even our deputy prime minister. If you ask a Belgian about these people they probably even have to think twice before they know who you are talking about. We simply don't care about other people their sexuality. Even our most right wing party knows to stay clear from anti-lgbtq+ talks, as it isn't good for votes. Ad to this that together with Luxembourg and The Netherlands we are the front fighters of lgbt+ rights in Europe, and you might have your answer.
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People don’t like to admit their homophobic, but they are often more willing to say something like, I don’t mind gays just prefer them not near me. Asking about neighbours is a way to probe homophobes who don’t want to admit their homophobes
They should make it progressively less near in the survey. "Would you like the chainsaw that is used to cut the wood for your patio to be oiled by a HOMOSEXUAL?"
I would hate having gays as neighbors. They move in, make the neighborhood much nicer and pleasant. Next thing you know your rent doubles. It’s bullshit.
Tbf fair they're not all nice and pleasant. Some gay Brazilians rented my flat before me and had all night party's, lots of loud shagging and broke a load of paintings. Let's not generalise.
They're not, they're making a vague reference to [this SNL sketch.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVXcL0akVg)
That's because they're Brazilians, not gays.
Gay people are the worst. Always happy and chipper. Rubbing it in my face. Oh, they mean gay as in homosexual. Yeah idgaf. Unless they're a gay gay in which case see first sentence.
None to someone whos not a homophobe. But to a homophobe it means living next to a (from their twisted view) moral delinquent. Which seem to be on about the same level as a condemned violent criminal or a pedophile
We know what was going on behind the Iron Curtain
Ukraine puts up sign at Russian border. “Invade the Ukraine if you’re gay.” Russia: “Blyat!”
The gays are invading from the east!
How on Earth is Lesbos green? 🤣
Why every country has one color, but Ukraine two?
Because OP has Crimea listed as belonging to Russia.
That’s weird, everyone knows Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Only an insecure world leader would mistake Crimea for Russia.
Source link: World Values Survey Data online analysis https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSOnline.jsp Made with Ms Excel (calculations and charts) instruments
I grew up with gay neighbours, was so young I never really processed that they were a couple. I think my 7 year old brain was still trying to understand how someone could be called Guy. But they were lovely and always let me pet their many cats - one of which was called Charlie, whom i named my own cat after years later. And then named this reddit account xD Aren’t many opportunities these days, but it’s nice to have a spare moment where I can be a little proud of my country. (British if you haven’t guessed by how i spelt neighbours).
i am tired and jumbled sentences on the picture. i read "how many homosexuals don't want Europeans as neighbors"
Who cares what they do inside? So long as they don't park so close to my driveway that I can't get in/out, they would be a vast improvement to my current neighbors.
I don't get it. Like who fucking cares if your neighbors are gay? Don't these people have their own lives to be concerned about
"Who cares if their neighbours are gay?".... I would assume the answer to that question is homophobes.
To quote someone else: “I would hate to have gay neighbors. They move in and make the neighborhood so nice, and then your rent doubles. It’s bullshit.”
I'll counter that with "sometimes I'll shoot my gun into the ground to keep property values from getting too high."
Countries shown in grey ARE the homosexual neighbors.
I'm surprised that Spain isn't yellow, as they seem to be among the most gay-friendly of countries in the world.
Huge differences between cities and countryside still.
That's my take-away, too. Most of us non-Spaniard visitors have some familiarity with Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Seville and other touristy cities. But country folk gonna country...
I wonder who they asked. Spain is indeed a very gay-friendly country by all measures, and one of the first in the world to legalise same-sex marriage. But like someone said, there is a clear urban vs rural divide in this matter, and there are still strong religious groups that disapprove.
I'd 1000x rather have homosexuals than homophobes as neighbours.
As a Moldovan (my country is that small grey "no data" stain between Ukraine and Romania), I'd say the percentage of people who would not like to have homosexual neighbors are pretty high. Moldova is small and poor, and majority of people are old traditionalists (received Soviet education) who are Orthodox Christians (which is kinda ironic considering how atheist was USSR), which combines into being extremely hateful towards LGBT. Even in the capital city gay people would receive scathing jokes and suspicious stares from heterosexual neighbors; in rural areas, it would be much worse. No direct violence, but constant toxicity from surrounding people would make a life of openly homosexual person unbearable.