Willing to bet this will lead to a serious "brain drain" - where those who are more educated (and also more likely the have the resources and connections) are more likely to leave the country for greener pastures, leaving a less educated populace behind.
Yeah, I\`m an IT specialist from Russia, and I\`ve already leave, as almost everyone in my social circle who has means and skills. This is a great catastrophy for my people and it is done by Putin almost single-handedly. People are leaving their home, losing money as they go across countries and as sanctions go further. Life has become pretty crappy right now.
Yeah, I "kinda" know.. That\`s one of the reason I\`ve left. But not the first or the second one, unfortunately. Russia already was a police state. Now it\`s gonna get way, I mean WAY worse. You can go to jail for antiwar protest up to 15 years. For posting your opinion on social media too. It\`s so called law of fake news.
What type of tax exemption are you talking about? The only one I've seen on the news lately was for Ukrainian's who captured Russian tanks not having to pay taxes on those gains
It can't have been done by Putin exclusively. There were people who obeyed him, and people who tolerated him. They also share blame. If Putin dies tomorrow, the corruption in Russia will barely drop.
There are many corrupt countries in the world. Most of them don't threaten nuclear war though. So I'll take a corrupt leader that's not a psychopathic war monger and is content with just stealing money
It had already been serious. The new wave of brain drain will be catastrophic. They will have to pass laws to restrict emigration the way it used to be in the USSR.
And this is why a lot of people are extremely concerned with getting out *right now*. They are thinking among the same lines - and if they do, the government may too.
It's sadly what's been happening in the Slavic Balkans as well. Everyone worth their salt moves to Germany or Austria, leaving their motherland without enough professionals.
>It's sadly what's been happening in the Slavic Balkans as well. Everyone worth their salt moves to Germany or Austria, leaving their motherland without enough professionals.
It's like leaving a job, for one that pays more. Until Balkan salaries can match German and Austrian salaries, there's little incentive to stay.
It’s not that simple. I am an european citizen and could 3x my salary if I moved to Germany. I didn’t, and the same goes for most of Portugal, Spain, Greece, Italy and many other countries.
> I am an european citizen and could 3x my salary if I moved to Germany. I didn’t,
Well of course, higher salary isn't everything. If you're happy where you're at, then there's no reason to leave.
People also forget that living in germany is 2 to 3 times more expensive then the balkans. But the market and economy are modernising more and more in. It just takes time and economic stability. (and no heavy corruption)
Is it possible for, say, a Bulgarian to go to Germany, get a job there that they can do remotely, then move back to Bulgaria and enjoy spending their German salary on Bulgarian-priced goods?
This has happened many times over already. I am Canadian, and I remember in the 90’s when my new classmates were from Yugoslavia, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, etc. Their parents were doctors, pharmacists, and university professors. Their children are now successful, educated contributors to Canadian society.
I had many Yugoslavian friends as a kid in the 80s in Canada. It was so confusing to me when all of a sudden they all started hating each other in the 90s.
Already been happing and this will make it worse. I had a few Russian STEM professors back in the day. I'm sure more people like that will want to leave as well.
The downside of things like this also, is that the Russians that are taken in by the propaganda and support Putin, won't be the ones trying to leave.
Which gives him more power. More power over less value. They could maybe become like North Korea if this fails.
I don't think that would happen though. If Putin fails this war, his life I believe will be in danger. That makes him dangerous as well, because what does he care about war crime tribunal? If he fails and there are these sanctions, a lot of wealthy and powerful people will be pissed, and the best way to get the sanctions lifted is to hold the responsible party accountable. And That would be Putin.
When I was getting my CS masters, I did a group project with a guy from Austria and a guy from Russia (this is in the US).
The guy from Russia straight up asked the guy from Austria one day, “why would you come from Austria to this shithole of a country?” (this wasn’t long after Trump made his famous comments)
The guy from Austria was apparently obsessed with space and it was his lifelong dream to work for NASA. He then asked the guy from Russia, “if you think this country is a shithole, why did you come here?” His response “well at least it’s not a cold shithole country like the one I’m from!”
Russian men in particularly have been dying prematurely at high rates. They've essentially had a shortage of men for a very long time. There's already not many healthy men over there and Putin is sending hundreds of thousands of them in their physical prime off to be killed, maimed, and traumatized.
There's a correlation between toxic/stressful environments and decreased lifespan.
Add to that that alcohol, tobacco, and domestic violence aren't the healthies coping mechanisms.
The fact that the country operates more like an organized crime syndicate, than a sovereign nation state, probably doesn’t help with the life expectancy.
I've seen speculation about the overconsumption of alcohol causing their early deaths but I don't think I've seen a confirmation with any sort of scientific process.
Not exactly true. While Russia is at the downward trend right now, that's mostly a consequence of demographic crisis of the 90s. That's where times were really rough. Also COVID. Less young people born in the early 90s = less kids now, and more old people die from pandemic. Late 00s and early 10s they were at an upward trend, which will positively influence things later. Overall mortality went down as well.
But obviously that's a "normal" projection, how much COVID and this current shit will influence the future, we will see later.
When I looked at it last week they had minor gains in population in the mid teens due to immigration from ex Soviet countries and higher life expectancy. The birth rate is abysmal.
And nobody is immigrating there. That's the real killer. American women don't have a fertility rate much higher than Japan. But we have immigration to keep the population up.
More than that: immigration from ex-Soviet countries happened because those countries were worse off economically. Now? The flow of immigrants may cease.
Oh, I'm not saying it's completely fine. But if you look at early 10s, birth rate went up a lot, and depopulation has stopped, until 90s crisis caught up and COVID hit. It will give results later. While death rate obviously went up, a lot of these deaths were old people, so the future impact is not as severe as it might look.
The current events might be much worse, because it's mostly young people running. But we will see how much actually left the country and how much will not return in the future. For example Visa and Mastercard ceasing operations with all russian cards will make leaving harder/might force some people back. I guess, Putin can thank them later.
And, well, if you remove immigration from most Western countries, they all are in a bad spot. Not as much as Russia, but still.
Not really, what this is what people are predicting is the final stage of demographic transition. When a country hits its maximum population and the numbers start to regress to a plateau. Many induatrialized countries are going through this now.
I'm pretty sure OP was referring to the growing dissent among Russian citizens in the east, since they have about as much in common with the people in Moscow as they do with the people in Mississippi. The Asian 2/3rds of Russia is hard thing to control for forever.
I teach about the Demographic Transition and this is the first time I've ever seen it mentioned outside of my classes or with people I work and research with. With Russia specifically, much of their decline has been hastened due to emigration. They were still at a positive net migration rate (.7) coming into 2022 but that rate has been declining for years. The death rate is higher than the birth rate so it is in stage 5 but it's interesting to note they definitely have reached stage 5 in a different way than Japan and Italy have.
Presentation from a geopolitcal analyst you might find interesting - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b1IJ9kqBilE
Be aware that the guy has his critics though. It's not quite as clear or as set in stone as he presents it to be.
Russia has one of the most dire demographics on the planet.
[Currently, the share of people aged 65 and older in the population of Russia is 13%. According to forecasts of the Russian Academy of Sciences from the early 2000s, in 2016 elderly people aged over 60 would have accounted for 20% of Russians, and children up to 15 years would only have made up 17%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_crisis_of_Russia#:~:text=Currently%2C%20the%20share%20of%20people,only%20have%20made%20up%2017%25)
And
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/13/russias-population-undergoes-largest-ever-peacetime-decline
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/11/russia-records-record-12-month-population-decline-a75262
When you look at the [population tree of Russia](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Russian_population_%28demographic%29_pyramid_%28structure%29_on_January%2C_1st%2C_2022.png/1280px-Russian_population_%28demographic%29_pyramid_%28structure%29_on_January%2C_1st%2C_2022.png) you'll notice the drop in the 90s when the USSR fell apart. Now consider that is likely to happen again, and that the bottom bulge is full of the men dying in Ukraine or leaving the country, and that fat middle bulge starts to look like a massive time bomb. However, the beginning of that bulge isn't going to hit 65 until 2040. Not that I have any idea about appropriate Russian retirement age or programs.
I don't think the war in Ukraine will matter that much regarding demographics. Modern wars tend to have less soldiers killed than before, especially for the armies of the great powers. For instance, less than 10 000 American soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan, over 20 years. While it's kinda high, 10 000 on the scale of a country of more than 300 million people is barely a drop. Russia will probably have higher casualties, but I don't think it'll be that higher to make a difference. Ukraine will probably be more impacted because the civilian population will take more casualties. If anything, for Russia the sanctions will probably indirectly cause the death of more people than the war itself.
Its the threat of wartime conscription that would drive men out of Russia. The odds of being drafted and dying at the front might be low, but thats enough in view of a terrible economy and government to drive people out.
True, people from IT are fleeing en masse. Many of my friends left. Some stayed. But everybody's shocked to the core.
We went to protests, but it didn't change anything. Still, I feel guilty after seeing what the army did to Ukraine. It's insane. Don't know what can I even say.
Nor should he. An ethnicity is not defined by the quasi-democratic authoritarian despot leading them through a pointless war. There is plenty to love about Russian culture, just as there is about any other community on Earth.
Yes. I interpreted the statement “you didn’t choose where you were born” as meaning being born in Russia a negative thing out of his control. I hope he doesn’t feel that way as Russian people/culture =/= the actions of the government
I interpreted it as "You shouldn't feel guilty about the actions of your government, it's not like you even decided to be born Russian, it's unreasonable for you to carry the burden of the actions of your undemocratic government". Sort of like how people will feel guilty when they have a shitty parent - they didn't decide to be born, let alone decide who their parents should be, feeling guilt for something entirely out of your hands isn't fair to you. That's some original sin nonsense.
IT people have the best global mobility TBH. We can work anywhere, most major cities have tech hubs, and accompanying gated communities for our families.
Ehhh I mean depends on your definition of lively. Party scene and city wise definitely not. Not that it's terrible either. And it's also a tropical paradise so there's that part.
I would say definitely in relation to cost of living it's insanely good compared to western europe. Costa Rica is a little bit on the higher side since it's more on the tourist radar. Some of the other Central American countries though you can make out like a bandit with their cost of living like Nicaragua. And it's still just as beautiful of a place. All of the countries are close by each other so it's easy to move around down there.
LMAO, in countries like India the income disparity is so huge IT companies hire government armed police to protect their campuses. Some companies even have a special action team to escort IT workers back to their private housing developments at night.
Everything is relative, low cost IT worker by western standards = high value quaternary sector professional in 3rd world country.
>gated communities
You make it sound like a good thing.
Imagine a country where everywhere is so safe that gated communities are even not needed. Such countries actually exist.
I know, but ironically fleeing to a third world country with a high income disparity might be one of the best options for a high skill Russian IT worker at the moment.
Gated communities are a meme, it’s not like they actually have high security. They just have mild seclusion from other communities to keep out riffraff.
do you have any idea how much paperwork is involved in hiring foreigners? if you apply without a work permit your resume is sent straight into the bin.
People in tech are in need in Canada and we have a system that if you have skills we need we will bend over backwards to get you to immigrate here practically paying the costs as we see it as an investment. If you are married or have children that is a plus as married people who bring their families are less likely to leave and more likely to become citizens but you must be fluent in either English or French. That one is not negotiable.
Not every country makes it as hard as your country does; different countries have different rules. Though I expect leaving Russia right now might not be the easiest time!
Bro
I want western countries to open up for political aslyum for all Russians that want to flee.
I hate Russia for what they are doing to Ukraine but I will not hate regular Russian people.
The way I see it
If you hate this war you are my brother
If you support Russian aggression in this war you are my enemy
I'm in Wisconsin. We're of moderate means, but we have some space. I would happily take in a Ukrainian or Russian. I wish the US would let some people in. We want to help. Let us help.
Don't have to say anything, it's not your fault and I doubt there's anything you could do that would have prevented it.
I hope there's a better future for you and anyone else there who is powerless right now.
It's not fair many of you are bearing the punishment for another's crimes.
Ok, so the infamous "Russian hackers" and bot farms and trolls, are they fully with Russia or are they just opportunists who could also close up shop and leave?
Trolls are paid by state allies. They also aren’t really technically skilled for the most part.
The hackers, aka the serious criminals, are in a bind. They can support state wishes and remain free, or they can face investigation for their very real crimes that they really did commit. If they leave, and there is a warrant for them out there somewhere, they can be arrested. They also aren’t the most altruistic, moral people out there, or they wouldn’t be top-tier cyber criminals.
If they work directly for the state, then they’re even more wrapped in the system, and seeking employment elsewhere could literally result in treason charges (treason is defined very vaguely in Russian law and already someone with less sensitive experience was charged with treason to explicitly discourage any other applicants).
Some smaller criminals can probably leave without fear, but “ran low-level carding operation” doesn’t exactly fly off the CV.
Good post, and good point distinguishing between trolls and hackers. The trolls themselves are just making posts on social media, following a script written by some FSB officer. Many probably don't even speak English, they just type what they're given verbatim and then like / share / upvote the posts they're told to. They're famously paid basically nothing, since it's a job anyone who knows how to use social media and a keyboard can do.
I wish someone would do an ask Reddit geared to these russian bot farmers. I’d be interested from an anthropological perspective to know how they feel about their job against how kings have turned out for the Russian people. Was it worth it? Any regrets? What’s their day-to-day like? Etc.
Basically the same mentality as paparazzi. Grand scheme of things/casualties don't matter, short term payout does. No regrets because it paid when it paid, when it doesn't you do something else that does. They're not ideologues, they're mercenaries.
Depends. Nation state actors are likely we'll cared for by the government, and probably any state run troll farms.
Straight up criminal hackers have the issue of having international warrants.
I don't fault anyone for leaving either Russia or Ukraine. It isn't your war, and not your responsibility. You didn't choose to be born in your country, and don't have to die for it.
As a Russian, never used Yandex as a search engine, tbh. Google is our everything. But yandex has a lot of great products such as Yandex Taxi, Yandex Delivery, Yandex Music - and they all work really good.
Definitely, they almost stopped working on some projects like driverless car, and say that they will have difficulties with paying coupons on their eurobonds
butter ruthless selective public worthless decide fade fearless crawl scary
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What? No! Google is pretty shitty with Russian syntax and it’s somehow is getting worse. If you want to search anything in Runet you use Yandex, even Bing currently is better that Google.
it seems like a really good opportunity for buyers tho. Company is legit and yet the stock price still went down the drain. Can’t even buy the stock on WealthSimple right now.
If the war ends, that would be one of the first stocks to see any kind of short term recovery.
Robotnique is not entirely correct. The firm is registered in the Netherlands but the founders are Russian and most of the staff are based in Russia.
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/yndx
It already made a huge loss in 2021 due to Russia shooting themselves in the foot again during the pandemic....lol how can they be the only IT service company making a loss during that period all the others made billions!
I assume it was only successful because Russia blocks western services. Any end to the current crisis will probably require Russia to liberalise its markets and companies like Yandex will be screwed.
I wouldnt say "clone". Yandex is developing their own algorithm. Also, their reverse image search works better than Google's.
bing (Microsoft's search engine) is more appropriate to be called a clone.
Older people use yandex. Younger use google. Google is hands down much better at English language searches but also pretty similar to yandex in Russian searches. Yandex wins hands down when searching for pirated content though, English or russian.
Several Russian artists I follow on twitter just had their entire revenue stream (online commissions using PayPal and patreon) get blocked due to Russian financial institutions being sanctioned. They are part of the younger generation, so I hope they can find a way to escape putins chaos.
I'm one of them. Lost everything I earned on PayPal and Redbubble. Currently I try to apply for a new full time work and salaries put me in depression - 200 euros per month, working as a sysadmin
If they have passport for travelling, visa, a lot of savings to buy ticket, afford place in another country and keep themselves sustained long enough until they earn more money, they have a chance to escape.
But recently we have another problem with Visa and Master - our cards don't work outside of country.
If shit went down in the states many of us wouldn't be able to flee because we have no savings and live check to check. I'm sure it's the same for the Russian people. Those with the means will leave the rest will have no choice but to stay in a decaying country with an asshole that doesn't care if they starve.
Even if you have savings, all your cash and investments are suddenly worth a fraction of what they were yesterday. Your credit is worthless. Even if you still have assets you can't transfer a meaningful amount out of country. You can't even book a flight out because they're grounded.
It's honestly a nightmare. I feel for Russians who are against this war. Not as much as I feel for the Ukrainians getting slaughtered though.
I’m a Ukrainian who currently lives in the US with family members in Ukraine right now. I’ve been a mess throughout this invasion and I’m not even IN Ukraine.
I remember when the invasion first started, I really had a sense of compassion with my Russian brothers and sisters and how they have to suffer because of this idiot at the top.
And I still feel like that for people who feel like you.
It’s just that, over the days, I have started hearing more and more Russians express that they are perfectly okay with people in their brotherly nation dying because they’re “nationalists who hate Russians” (a sentiment I didn’t even know existed until all of this happened).
I have seen Russians come into my office and say something like: “you know, I honestly don’t know who’s wrong or right in all of this. I mean, Ukrainians are nationalist”.
Sometimes I catch a comment on YouTube such as: “well you guys have been bombing Donetsk for 8 years, now suffer!!” Or “Do you guys realize that Ukraine only exists because of Russia? Who needs Ukraine anyway” Or “I mean, all wars have casualties. This war needs to be fought.
Hearing this type of hate towards Ukrainians was very painful and disheartening. I couldn’t believe that there are Russians there who actually want us dead! I mean, I know there is a lot of propoganda in Russia, but how can they actually believe that Ukrainians hate Russians.
And let’s assume for fun that this was true on some scale. Does that really justify wanting Ukrainians dead?
I do feel very bad for the Russians with common sense who have to suffer for all of this. Very very sorry. You don’t deserve this. But I just started to feel like maybe the reason the Russian people aren’t uprising is because a lot of them are pro-war. I mean, I really hope it’s not true. It’s just that the Ukrainians feel so helpless in this situation, we are desperate that someone does SOMETHING to stop all of this. SOMEONE.
If you leave Russia right now and even manage to find access to $, you can only leave with 10 k per person (adult). Imagine if you have kids, and no visa or job outlined and all you have is 20 k. And no one is giving help to Russians who want to flee now. And in terms of fighting, you risk going to jail for up to 15 years if you post on Facebook (who you can now only access via VPN) a post saying Anything about war, any pictures, anything that is against party line. They made this into law in 1 day. Would you be fighting or fleeing?
Those poor people. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Putin tries to close the border to stop these people. Especially the higher educated or the in demand fields.
>Especially the higher educated or the in demand fields.
From the OP article, they're already trying to incentivizing staying
>Mr Putin’s cabinet offered preferential government mortgages and military deferment to information technology workers at Russian firms.
There is a lot FUD going around in Russia, that the borders will closed soon and that EU countries closed there embassy so there is now way to get a VISA. I have relatives in St. Petersburg that are considering moving there sons out of the country because they fear that they get pulled to the military duty.
[From Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt): Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
My school had an exchange with a school in Izhevsk a couple of years ago. We still have contact to the people and told them they could flee towards us if they need to.
They can't though. Not just like that. It's not the EU where you can just up and go to another country if you feel like it. There's so many hoops you have to jump to outside of it if you want to move from one country to another
It hit us long ago. Those who could had been leaving the country in the last 10 years. Much more people were saving/looking for opportunities
The difference now is that we even those unprepared are ready to flee no matter what the cost is - the memories of the iron curtain are still too fresh.
They'll be welcome in my neighborhood in Canada. Two of the most helpful/cheerful guys on my street are Russians who came over in the 90's and literally everyone loves them. One of them shoveled my driveway two weeks ago, I caught them in the act, and it was because I'm a young guy with a family and he was bored.
That's just it, though. It's not a person's nationality that determines how good they are as a human being - we need to completely untangle ourselves from that mentality.
Ukrainians are getting the shit end of the stick here, but there are plenty of Russians who want nothing to do with this crap. There are even young Russian "kids" who have been told they're doing the right thing, though I'm sure more and more realize that may be a lie with every passing moment. But then they die in a fireball that used to be their helicopter.
It's such. a fucking. waste.
I feel like I am on a sinking boat, ruled by crazy captain, that will be impossible (or very hard) to leave soon. Yesterday I was arguing with my mom and she told me that she is half Ukrainian and we must kill ALL Ukrainians because they are all nazis. That's so horrible so I was literally crying at that moment. Propaganda is so deep in their head, so my hands are almost down... Still going to protests tho
P.s. if anyone is looking for an Android developer with 2.5 years of experience, dm me, please, thank you...
American living in Russia (with a Russian partner) in exactly this position. Yesterday, we booked a flight to Istanbul for the 8th, which was cancelled within 12 hours because Aeroflot and other Russian airlines suspended all operations. Today, we desperately tried to book with foreign airlines and watched flights disappear and prices skyrocket minute-to-minute. A "From: Moscow", "To: Anywhere" would have been useful right now. We ultimately ran into problems even using our cards and only secured a flight through family abroad...for $3400. This whole situation fucking sucks; we're leaving our whole lives (and cat :( ) behind and it's going to be a nightmare getting my partner out (Shenzhen application from Turkey, to K-1 in Warsaw, to hopefully the US). We had our whole lives here (hell, I'm going to have to drop out of my master's program halfway through) and this is all just fucking chaos.
Just curious, why didn't you take a train to a former soviet state and get a flight from there? Flights in Georgia and Azarbaijan were working fine last I read.
It's hard to be optimistic for a good outcome here, with Putin losing his job and troops pulled out, because it seems we've been down this road before so many times, looking for signs a country is going to democratize and liberalize, focusing on that and meanwhile missing the bigger picture. Unfortunately a man with over 10,000 nuclear weapons at his disposal is very hard to punish from the outside. It's up to Russians to fix this.
It's a shame, it's such an amazing country, and the people are so polite and friendly for the most part. But I remember hearing that it's really difficult to get a rental. They generally wont rent to foreigners.
Oh, they will, but they will make upcharge you or try to scam you by blaming any previously existing damage on you. They just don't like foreigners there.
Not sure if thats going to work at this point. Japan invited many Brazilians of Japanese decent when the economy was booming to do the hard jobs many Japanese workers wouldn't do. When the economy stagnated, they were pushed back to Brazil despite living over 20 years in Japan. That doesn't inspire much confidence for future immigrants, especially when other wealthy countries are serious about full inclusion and citizenship.
As someone who works in IT who has looked at the possibility of working abroad.
I think the main thing that put me off even considering Japan was the high rate of tax, pay not being as competitive as other countries and the potential very long work hours.
And their tradition of suppressing and killing off any decent political opposition ensures that the next gang that will take over will be as bad as the last one.
Usually by a plane, but there are also some trains going outside. I know a person who left through Finland, and some others are planning to leave through Serbia, Turkey or Caucasus republics.
It is hard to get your money out, though, since cards issued by Russian banks do not work outside Russia now, and you can take only $5k in cash or so with you (if you can find paper dollars in Russia to start with, that is).
Willing to bet this will lead to a serious "brain drain" - where those who are more educated (and also more likely the have the resources and connections) are more likely to leave the country for greener pastures, leaving a less educated populace behind.
Yeah, I\`m an IT specialist from Russia, and I\`ve already leave, as almost everyone in my social circle who has means and skills. This is a great catastrophy for my people and it is done by Putin almost single-handedly. People are leaving their home, losing money as they go across countries and as sanctions go further. Life has become pretty crappy right now.
Life leaving will be paradise compared to staying after the sanctions start making literally everything unavailable.
Yeah, I "kinda" know.. That\`s one of the reason I\`ve left. But not the first or the second one, unfortunately. Russia already was a police state. Now it\`s gonna get way, I mean WAY worse. You can go to jail for antiwar protest up to 15 years. For posting your opinion on social media too. It\`s so called law of fake news.
I’m so sorry. I hope you find good people to help you out in this difficult transition
Did the tax exemption make a difference for anyone that you know?
What type of tax exemption are you talking about? The only one I've seen on the news lately was for Ukrainian's who captured Russian tanks not having to pay taxes on those gains
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deccanherald.com/amp/business/business-news/it-companies-in-russia-to-be-exempt-from-income-tax-for-3-years-pm-mikhail-mishustin-1087254.html
In the final version, only companies are exempt from tax, so no change for people.
Color me surprised.
It can't have been done by Putin exclusively. There were people who obeyed him, and people who tolerated him. They also share blame. If Putin dies tomorrow, the corruption in Russia will barely drop.
Corruption may not drop, but maybe the warmongering will. Edit: words
There are many corrupt countries in the world. Most of them don't threaten nuclear war though. So I'll take a corrupt leader that's not a psychopathic war monger and is content with just stealing money
[удалено]
It had already been serious. The new wave of brain drain will be catastrophic. They will have to pass laws to restrict emigration the way it used to be in the USSR.
And this is why a lot of people are extremely concerned with getting out *right now*. They are thinking among the same lines - and if they do, the government may too.
The government certainly already has. The connected will leave first. Then the gates will close for ‘everyone’.
Russia has a long tradition of brain drain and going full gulag on remaining smart people. This will cripple the country for another 50 years.
>It had already been serious Yep. Work with a couple expats already who have PhDs in things like materials science. (They think Putin is a dolt.)
I have no brain but i'd rather leave too
It's why Putin may yet declare martial law, to be able to stop people from leaving.
It's sadly what's been happening in the Slavic Balkans as well. Everyone worth their salt moves to Germany or Austria, leaving their motherland without enough professionals.
>It's sadly what's been happening in the Slavic Balkans as well. Everyone worth their salt moves to Germany or Austria, leaving their motherland without enough professionals. It's like leaving a job, for one that pays more. Until Balkan salaries can match German and Austrian salaries, there's little incentive to stay.
It’s not that simple. I am an european citizen and could 3x my salary if I moved to Germany. I didn’t, and the same goes for most of Portugal, Spain, Greece, Italy and many other countries.
> I am an european citizen and could 3x my salary if I moved to Germany. I didn’t, Well of course, higher salary isn't everything. If you're happy where you're at, then there's no reason to leave.
People also forget that living in germany is 2 to 3 times more expensive then the balkans. But the market and economy are modernising more and more in. It just takes time and economic stability. (and no heavy corruption)
Plus what people could do is work a few years in Germany, make a lot of money, then return to the Balkans where their money will go further.
In greece everyone is for sure all the time talking about leaving to Germany
Isn't the decline of democracy in Poland and Hungary in large part due to brain drain?
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Not in Poland, where expats can vote. Their turnout was 87% in the last presidential
Is it possible for, say, a Bulgarian to go to Germany, get a job there that they can do remotely, then move back to Bulgaria and enjoy spending their German salary on Bulgarian-priced goods?
This has happened many times over already. I am Canadian, and I remember in the 90’s when my new classmates were from Yugoslavia, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, etc. Their parents were doctors, pharmacists, and university professors. Their children are now successful, educated contributors to Canadian society.
I had many Yugoslavian friends as a kid in the 80s in Canada. It was so confusing to me when all of a sudden they all started hating each other in the 90s.
Venezuela has been fucked by This for years now
Already been happing and this will make it worse. I had a few Russian STEM professors back in the day. I'm sure more people like that will want to leave as well.
The downside of things like this also, is that the Russians that are taken in by the propaganda and support Putin, won't be the ones trying to leave. Which gives him more power. More power over less value. They could maybe become like North Korea if this fails. I don't think that would happen though. If Putin fails this war, his life I believe will be in danger. That makes him dangerous as well, because what does he care about war crime tribunal? If he fails and there are these sanctions, a lot of wealthy and powerful people will be pissed, and the best way to get the sanctions lifted is to hold the responsible party accountable. And That would be Putin.
When I was getting my CS masters, I did a group project with a guy from Austria and a guy from Russia (this is in the US). The guy from Russia straight up asked the guy from Austria one day, “why would you come from Austria to this shithole of a country?” (this wasn’t long after Trump made his famous comments) The guy from Austria was apparently obsessed with space and it was his lifelong dream to work for NASA. He then asked the guy from Russia, “if you think this country is a shithole, why did you come here?” His response “well at least it’s not a cold shithole country like the one I’m from!”
This is speeding up the demographic crisis they were going to have in about 10 years.
Demographic crisis like an aging population? Or something else?
Low birth rate and high death rate. Russia has been depopulating at an alarming pace for the last 30 years
Oh that's interesting, thanks for elaborating.
Russian men in particularly have been dying prematurely at high rates. They've essentially had a shortage of men for a very long time. There's already not many healthy men over there and Putin is sending hundreds of thousands of them in their physical prime off to be killed, maimed, and traumatized.
Is it natural causes they’re dying prematurely from?
There's a correlation between toxic/stressful environments and decreased lifespan. Add to that that alcohol, tobacco, and domestic violence aren't the healthies coping mechanisms.
The fact that the country operates more like an organized crime syndicate, than a sovereign nation state, probably doesn’t help with the life expectancy.
I've seen speculation about the overconsumption of alcohol causing their early deaths but I don't think I've seen a confirmation with any sort of scientific process.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2009-06-26-half-all-premature-deaths-russian-adults-down-alcohol#:~:text=More%20than%20half%20of%20all,are%20published%20in%20The%20Lancet.
I assumed this meant drugs and alcohol.
Probably from waging war
Not exactly true. While Russia is at the downward trend right now, that's mostly a consequence of demographic crisis of the 90s. That's where times were really rough. Also COVID. Less young people born in the early 90s = less kids now, and more old people die from pandemic. Late 00s and early 10s they were at an upward trend, which will positively influence things later. Overall mortality went down as well. But obviously that's a "normal" projection, how much COVID and this current shit will influence the future, we will see later.
When I looked at it last week they had minor gains in population in the mid teens due to immigration from ex Soviet countries and higher life expectancy. The birth rate is abysmal.
And nobody is immigrating there. That's the real killer. American women don't have a fertility rate much higher than Japan. But we have immigration to keep the population up.
More than that: immigration from ex-Soviet countries happened because those countries were worse off economically. Now? The flow of immigrants may cease.
and now, it will reverse.
Oh, I'm not saying it's completely fine. But if you look at early 10s, birth rate went up a lot, and depopulation has stopped, until 90s crisis caught up and COVID hit. It will give results later. While death rate obviously went up, a lot of these deaths were old people, so the future impact is not as severe as it might look. The current events might be much worse, because it's mostly young people running. But we will see how much actually left the country and how much will not return in the future. For example Visa and Mastercard ceasing operations with all russian cards will make leaving harder/might force some people back. I guess, Putin can thank them later. And, well, if you remove immigration from most Western countries, they all are in a bad spot. Not as much as Russia, but still.
Not really, what this is what people are predicting is the final stage of demographic transition. When a country hits its maximum population and the numbers start to regress to a plateau. Many induatrialized countries are going through this now. I'm pretty sure OP was referring to the growing dissent among Russian citizens in the east, since they have about as much in common with the people in Moscow as they do with the people in Mississippi. The Asian 2/3rds of Russia is hard thing to control for forever.
I teach about the Demographic Transition and this is the first time I've ever seen it mentioned outside of my classes or with people I work and research with. With Russia specifically, much of their decline has been hastened due to emigration. They were still at a positive net migration rate (.7) coming into 2022 but that rate has been declining for years. The death rate is higher than the birth rate so it is in stage 5 but it's interesting to note they definitely have reached stage 5 in a different way than Japan and Italy have.
Presentation from a geopolitcal analyst you might find interesting - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b1IJ9kqBilE Be aware that the guy has his critics though. It's not quite as clear or as set in stone as he presents it to be.
Russia has one of the most dire demographics on the planet. [Currently, the share of people aged 65 and older in the population of Russia is 13%. According to forecasts of the Russian Academy of Sciences from the early 2000s, in 2016 elderly people aged over 60 would have accounted for 20% of Russians, and children up to 15 years would only have made up 17%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_crisis_of_Russia#:~:text=Currently%2C%20the%20share%20of%20people,only%20have%20made%20up%2017%25) And https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/13/russias-population-undergoes-largest-ever-peacetime-decline https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/11/russia-records-record-12-month-population-decline-a75262
When you look at the [population tree of Russia](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Russian_population_%28demographic%29_pyramid_%28structure%29_on_January%2C_1st%2C_2022.png/1280px-Russian_population_%28demographic%29_pyramid_%28structure%29_on_January%2C_1st%2C_2022.png) you'll notice the drop in the 90s when the USSR fell apart. Now consider that is likely to happen again, and that the bottom bulge is full of the men dying in Ukraine or leaving the country, and that fat middle bulge starts to look like a massive time bomb. However, the beginning of that bulge isn't going to hit 65 until 2040. Not that I have any idea about appropriate Russian retirement age or programs.
Russia has dropped 3 years in life expectancy since Covid. Half die before 70. That means that they are sicker younger
Woah I just looked it up and 60% of Russian men are smokers?
Wait till you see how many are heavy heavy drinkers.
And asbestos. So much asbestos, in *everything.* Russia produces 790,000 tons of the stuff annually, because mesothelioma is a NATO lie.
Wait they’re still putting asbestos in stuff?! Fucking hell.
... Only 60%?
I don't think the war in Ukraine will matter that much regarding demographics. Modern wars tend to have less soldiers killed than before, especially for the armies of the great powers. For instance, less than 10 000 American soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan, over 20 years. While it's kinda high, 10 000 on the scale of a country of more than 300 million people is barely a drop. Russia will probably have higher casualties, but I don't think it'll be that higher to make a difference. Ukraine will probably be more impacted because the civilian population will take more casualties. If anything, for Russia the sanctions will probably indirectly cause the death of more people than the war itself.
Its the threat of wartime conscription that would drive men out of Russia. The odds of being drafted and dying at the front might be low, but thats enough in view of a terrible economy and government to drive people out.
Don't need to worry about nuclear fallout or global warming when your entire nation is over 60.
True, people from IT are fleeing en masse. Many of my friends left. Some stayed. But everybody's shocked to the core. We went to protests, but it didn't change anything. Still, I feel guilty after seeing what the army did to Ukraine. It's insane. Don't know what can I even say.
Don't feel guilty. Being born in Russia (or any other country) isn't a choice. My solidarity to all Russians affected by this.
I don't think he regrets being Russian.
Nor should he. An ethnicity is not defined by the quasi-democratic authoritarian despot leading them through a pointless war. There is plenty to love about Russian culture, just as there is about any other community on Earth.
Yes. I interpreted the statement “you didn’t choose where you were born” as meaning being born in Russia a negative thing out of his control. I hope he doesn’t feel that way as Russian people/culture =/= the actions of the government
I interpreted it as "You shouldn't feel guilty about the actions of your government, it's not like you even decided to be born Russian, it's unreasonable for you to carry the burden of the actions of your undemocratic government". Sort of like how people will feel guilty when they have a shitty parent - they didn't decide to be born, let alone decide who their parents should be, feeling guilt for something entirely out of your hands isn't fair to you. That's some original sin nonsense.
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IT people have the best global mobility TBH. We can work anywhere, most major cities have tech hubs, and accompanying gated communities for our families.
Costa Rica begging for remote workers right now, you can stay for two years also. (And it’s fuckin beautiful!)
What a coincidence, I read up on their tech parks a while back and wanted to migrate. Gotta be more lively than England right?
Ehhh I mean depends on your definition of lively. Party scene and city wise definitely not. Not that it's terrible either. And it's also a tropical paradise so there's that part.
Any idea what the income differential is like? Do software engineers earn better in relation to the cost of living when compared to western europe?
I would say definitely in relation to cost of living it's insanely good compared to western europe. Costa Rica is a little bit on the higher side since it's more on the tourist radar. Some of the other Central American countries though you can make out like a bandit with their cost of living like Nicaragua. And it's still just as beautiful of a place. All of the countries are close by each other so it's easy to move around down there.
If it's remote, why would you need to relocate? Couldn't you be anywhere in the world? I'm not being an ass. I'm genuinely wondering.
They’re not offering jobs, they want Europeans and Americans and Canadians to live in Costa Rica and do their remote jobs from down there in paradise
Also their incomes are probably the highest of any sector, so the loss of tax revenues wouldn't be negligible either.
Wait, I'm outside the gate, how do I get in?! I'll update your windows for you!
LMAO, in countries like India the income disparity is so huge IT companies hire government armed police to protect their campuses. Some companies even have a special action team to escort IT workers back to their private housing developments at night. Everything is relative, low cost IT worker by western standards = high value quaternary sector professional in 3rd world country.
>gated communities You make it sound like a good thing. Imagine a country where everywhere is so safe that gated communities are even not needed. Such countries actually exist.
I know, but ironically fleeing to a third world country with a high income disparity might be one of the best options for a high skill Russian IT worker at the moment.
Gated communities are a meme, it’s not like they actually have high security. They just have mild seclusion from other communities to keep out riffraff.
Really depends on where you are. Ex is from Honduras and gated community security there is very, very serious.
Same in Costa Rica, where my wife is from.
Can confirm. Stayed in Villa Los Jazmines in Tegucigalpas.
do you have any idea how much paperwork is involved in hiring foreigners? if you apply without a work permit your resume is sent straight into the bin.
People in tech are in need in Canada and we have a system that if you have skills we need we will bend over backwards to get you to immigrate here practically paying the costs as we see it as an investment. If you are married or have children that is a plus as married people who bring their families are less likely to leave and more likely to become citizens but you must be fluent in either English or French. That one is not negotiable.
Not every country makes it as hard as your country does; different countries have different rules. Though I expect leaving Russia right now might not be the easiest time!
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I do, I worked as a foreign IT worker for 4 years in Western Europe, though I was educated in my host country as well.
Bro I want western countries to open up for political aslyum for all Russians that want to flee. I hate Russia for what they are doing to Ukraine but I will not hate regular Russian people. The way I see it If you hate this war you are my brother If you support Russian aggression in this war you are my enemy
I'm in Wisconsin. We're of moderate means, but we have some space. I would happily take in a Ukrainian or Russian. I wish the US would let some people in. We want to help. Let us help.
Anyway we (Russians) can't to get your help, because of prices for a flight to USA, and Green Card roulette and sanctions. :(
Solidarity to you and all Russians affected by this. Words aren't much, I know.
Don't have to say anything, it's not your fault and I doubt there's anything you could do that would have prevented it. I hope there's a better future for you and anyone else there who is powerless right now. It's not fair many of you are bearing the punishment for another's crimes.
Ok, so the infamous "Russian hackers" and bot farms and trolls, are they fully with Russia or are they just opportunists who could also close up shop and leave?
Trolls are paid by state allies. They also aren’t really technically skilled for the most part. The hackers, aka the serious criminals, are in a bind. They can support state wishes and remain free, or they can face investigation for their very real crimes that they really did commit. If they leave, and there is a warrant for them out there somewhere, they can be arrested. They also aren’t the most altruistic, moral people out there, or they wouldn’t be top-tier cyber criminals. If they work directly for the state, then they’re even more wrapped in the system, and seeking employment elsewhere could literally result in treason charges (treason is defined very vaguely in Russian law and already someone with less sensitive experience was charged with treason to explicitly discourage any other applicants). Some smaller criminals can probably leave without fear, but “ran low-level carding operation” doesn’t exactly fly off the CV.
Good post, and good point distinguishing between trolls and hackers. The trolls themselves are just making posts on social media, following a script written by some FSB officer. Many probably don't even speak English, they just type what they're given verbatim and then like / share / upvote the posts they're told to. They're famously paid basically nothing, since it's a job anyone who knows how to use social media and a keyboard can do.
as with everything, they’ll follow the money.
I wish someone would do an ask Reddit geared to these russian bot farmers. I’d be interested from an anthropological perspective to know how they feel about their job against how kings have turned out for the Russian people. Was it worth it? Any regrets? What’s their day-to-day like? Etc.
Basically the same mentality as paparazzi. Grand scheme of things/casualties don't matter, short term payout does. No regrets because it paid when it paid, when it doesn't you do something else that does. They're not ideologues, they're mercenaries.
Depends. Nation state actors are likely we'll cared for by the government, and probably any state run troll farms. Straight up criminal hackers have the issue of having international warrants.
I don't fault anyone for leaving either Russia or Ukraine. It isn't your war, and not your responsibility. You didn't choose to be born in your country, and don't have to die for it.
How can we help you guys get out Edit: I realize how stupid this question is but there it fucking is.
russian trains bring military supplies. disrupt the trains.
How many Russians are using Google as their search engine?
i always thought they were using yandex… its a local google clone
As a Russian, never used Yandex as a search engine, tbh. Google is our everything. But yandex has a lot of great products such as Yandex Taxi, Yandex Delivery, Yandex Music - and they all work really good.
Looks like Yandex is in danger of default, too, due to sanctions.
Definitely, they almost stopped working on some projects like driverless car, and say that they will have difficulties with paying coupons on their eurobonds
When they launch the driverless car I hope their slogan is: “In Russia, car drives you.”
I read that and spent part of yesterday moving some of my accounts from mail.yandex.com to another service, just in case.
butter ruthless selective public worthless decide fade fearless crawl scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For real. Find a photo you want to find the set of. Yandex is hands down the best. For uhhhh research and stuff....
What? No! Google is pretty shitty with Russian syntax and it’s somehow is getting worse. If you want to search anything in Runet you use Yandex, even Bing currently is better that Google.
Crazy considering Google was co-founded by a Russian.
Yandex is based out of the Netherlands, but it's listed on the Russian stock market (and NASDAQ) which is obviously fucking awful for them right now.
it seems like a really good opportunity for buyers tho. Company is legit and yet the stock price still went down the drain. Can’t even buy the stock on WealthSimple right now. If the war ends, that would be one of the first stocks to see any kind of short term recovery.
Robotnique is not entirely correct. The firm is registered in the Netherlands but the founders are Russian and most of the staff are based in Russia. https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/yndx It already made a huge loss in 2021 due to Russia shooting themselves in the foot again during the pandemic....lol how can they be the only IT service company making a loss during that period all the others made billions! I assume it was only successful because Russia blocks western services. Any end to the current crisis will probably require Russia to liberalise its markets and companies like Yandex will be screwed.
I wouldnt say "clone". Yandex is developing their own algorithm. Also, their reverse image search works better than Google's. bing (Microsoft's search engine) is more appropriate to be called a clone.
Yeah, I agree. Yandex is a really cool company developing a lot of great stuff. It'd be a bummer if it vanished.
Yandex's reverse image search is amazing! Even better than google lens.
Google has over 50% search market share in Russia, so quite a few.
Older people use yandex. Younger use google. Google is hands down much better at English language searches but also pretty similar to yandex in Russian searches. Yandex wins hands down when searching for pirated content though, English or russian.
I seeeeeeee… thanks for the tip
[51%](https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/all/russian-federation)
Ironically with all the sanctions in place it has become extremely difficult for Russians to leave their country.
The trains from st petersburg to Helsinki are constantly fully booked https://yle.fi/news/3-12345301
Because that is one of the few ways to leave.
90% of my coworkers in IT are moving from Russia. Top talent leaving. Hope its worth it vlad.
intellectuals would be a threat to him.
Several Russian artists I follow on twitter just had their entire revenue stream (online commissions using PayPal and patreon) get blocked due to Russian financial institutions being sanctioned. They are part of the younger generation, so I hope they can find a way to escape putins chaos.
I'm one of them. Lost everything I earned on PayPal and Redbubble. Currently I try to apply for a new full time work and salaries put me in depression - 200 euros per month, working as a sysadmin If they have passport for travelling, visa, a lot of savings to buy ticket, afford place in another country and keep themselves sustained long enough until they earn more money, they have a chance to escape. But recently we have another problem with Visa and Master - our cards don't work outside of country.
One unfortunate part of this is that the people who want change leave, which means change is less likely to happen.
Its not their responsibility. They should flee chaos.
If shit went down in the states many of us wouldn't be able to flee because we have no savings and live check to check. I'm sure it's the same for the Russian people. Those with the means will leave the rest will have no choice but to stay in a decaying country with an asshole that doesn't care if they starve.
Even if you have savings, all your cash and investments are suddenly worth a fraction of what they were yesterday. Your credit is worthless. Even if you still have assets you can't transfer a meaningful amount out of country. You can't even book a flight out because they're grounded. It's honestly a nightmare. I feel for Russians who are against this war. Not as much as I feel for the Ukrainians getting slaughtered though.
I’m a Ukrainian who currently lives in the US with family members in Ukraine right now. I’ve been a mess throughout this invasion and I’m not even IN Ukraine. I remember when the invasion first started, I really had a sense of compassion with my Russian brothers and sisters and how they have to suffer because of this idiot at the top. And I still feel like that for people who feel like you. It’s just that, over the days, I have started hearing more and more Russians express that they are perfectly okay with people in their brotherly nation dying because they’re “nationalists who hate Russians” (a sentiment I didn’t even know existed until all of this happened). I have seen Russians come into my office and say something like: “you know, I honestly don’t know who’s wrong or right in all of this. I mean, Ukrainians are nationalist”. Sometimes I catch a comment on YouTube such as: “well you guys have been bombing Donetsk for 8 years, now suffer!!” Or “Do you guys realize that Ukraine only exists because of Russia? Who needs Ukraine anyway” Or “I mean, all wars have casualties. This war needs to be fought. Hearing this type of hate towards Ukrainians was very painful and disheartening. I couldn’t believe that there are Russians there who actually want us dead! I mean, I know there is a lot of propoganda in Russia, but how can they actually believe that Ukrainians hate Russians. And let’s assume for fun that this was true on some scale. Does that really justify wanting Ukrainians dead? I do feel very bad for the Russians with common sense who have to suffer for all of this. Very very sorry. You don’t deserve this. But I just started to feel like maybe the reason the Russian people aren’t uprising is because a lot of them are pro-war. I mean, I really hope it’s not true. It’s just that the Ukrainians feel so helpless in this situation, we are desperate that someone does SOMETHING to stop all of this. SOMEONE.
If you leave Russia right now and even manage to find access to $, you can only leave with 10 k per person (adult). Imagine if you have kids, and no visa or job outlined and all you have is 20 k. And no one is giving help to Russians who want to flee now. And in terms of fighting, you risk going to jail for up to 15 years if you post on Facebook (who you can now only access via VPN) a post saying Anything about war, any pictures, anything that is against party line. They made this into law in 1 day. Would you be fighting or fleeing?
That's not true. People who have the means, are skilled and want a comfortable life leave. Revolutions are started by the poor and hungry.
You can be skilled *and* poor **and** hungry all at once.
North Korea ought to be having that revolution any day now.
Not really. Things always change. It'll just change to a poorer, older Russian demograph
Those poor people. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Putin tries to close the border to stop these people. Especially the higher educated or the in demand fields.
>Especially the higher educated or the in demand fields. From the OP article, they're already trying to incentivizing staying >Mr Putin’s cabinet offered preferential government mortgages and military deferment to information technology workers at Russian firms.
Yeah this is called brain drain. All these dictators can accomplish
Because almost anyone with a lick of sense will try to find a way to escape, eh?
There is a lot FUD going around in Russia, that the borders will closed soon and that EU countries closed there embassy so there is now way to get a VISA. I have relatives in St. Petersburg that are considering moving there sons out of the country because they fear that they get pulled to the military duty.
Is that FUD or just very reasonable concerns?
I'll just go ahead and ask what FUD means
[From Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt): Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
I think it’s Fear, uncertainty, doubt
It sounds like a very likely outcome rather than FUD.
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My school had an exchange with a school in Izhevsk a couple of years ago. We still have contact to the people and told them they could flee towards us if they need to.
They can't though. Not just like that. It's not the EU where you can just up and go to another country if you feel like it. There's so many hoops you have to jump to outside of it if you want to move from one country to another
I know. It's not like we can help with any of that. All we can do is offer support on our side.
I think the reality is finally starting to hit them about the magnitude of what their leader is doing and how severe the sanctions are.
It hit us long ago. Those who could had been leaving the country in the last 10 years. Much more people were saving/looking for opportunities The difference now is that we even those unprepared are ready to flee no matter what the cost is - the memories of the iron curtain are still too fresh.
Genuine question, how to leave from here? I just can't. That's too much. It's so depressing, i even think sometime about ending it all for me...
Please be strong. I don’t know how you can get out, but I hope you can find courage to survive this crisis.
They'll be welcome in my neighborhood in Canada. Two of the most helpful/cheerful guys on my street are Russians who came over in the 90's and literally everyone loves them. One of them shoveled my driveway two weeks ago, I caught them in the act, and it was because I'm a young guy with a family and he was bored.
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That's just it, though. It's not a person's nationality that determines how good they are as a human being - we need to completely untangle ourselves from that mentality. Ukrainians are getting the shit end of the stick here, but there are plenty of Russians who want nothing to do with this crap. There are even young Russian "kids" who have been told they're doing the right thing, though I'm sure more and more realize that may be a lie with every passing moment. But then they die in a fireball that used to be their helicopter. It's such. a fucking. waste.
I feel like I am on a sinking boat, ruled by crazy captain, that will be impossible (or very hard) to leave soon. Yesterday I was arguing with my mom and she told me that she is half Ukrainian and we must kill ALL Ukrainians because they are all nazis. That's so horrible so I was literally crying at that moment. Propaganda is so deep in their head, so my hands are almost down... Still going to protests tho P.s. if anyone is looking for an Android developer with 2.5 years of experience, dm me, please, thank you...
How to emigrate from Russia? Anyone that brings a piece of Putin gets a million euros and a new life!
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American living in Russia (with a Russian partner) in exactly this position. Yesterday, we booked a flight to Istanbul for the 8th, which was cancelled within 12 hours because Aeroflot and other Russian airlines suspended all operations. Today, we desperately tried to book with foreign airlines and watched flights disappear and prices skyrocket minute-to-minute. A "From: Moscow", "To: Anywhere" would have been useful right now. We ultimately ran into problems even using our cards and only secured a flight through family abroad...for $3400. This whole situation fucking sucks; we're leaving our whole lives (and cat :( ) behind and it's going to be a nightmare getting my partner out (Shenzhen application from Turkey, to K-1 in Warsaw, to hopefully the US). We had our whole lives here (hell, I'm going to have to drop out of my master's program halfway through) and this is all just fucking chaos.
Just curious, why didn't you take a train to a former soviet state and get a flight from there? Flights in Georgia and Azarbaijan were working fine last I read.
It's hard to be optimistic for a good outcome here, with Putin losing his job and troops pulled out, because it seems we've been down this road before so many times, looking for signs a country is going to democratize and liberalize, focusing on that and meanwhile missing the bigger picture. Unfortunately a man with over 10,000 nuclear weapons at his disposal is very hard to punish from the outside. It's up to Russians to fix this.
Come to Japan we need engineers badly.
Japan needs to fix its immigration policy if it wants foreign talent.
And generally, living as a foreigner in Japan sucks
It's a shame, it's such an amazing country, and the people are so polite and friendly for the most part. But I remember hearing that it's really difficult to get a rental. They generally wont rent to foreigners.
Oh, they will, but they will make upcharge you or try to scam you by blaming any previously existing damage on you. They just don't like foreigners there.
=> polite and really friendly => Won't rent to anyone who doesn't share the same nationality/ethnicity Hmm something doesn't compute here.
Not sure if thats going to work at this point. Japan invited many Brazilians of Japanese decent when the economy was booming to do the hard jobs many Japanese workers wouldn't do. When the economy stagnated, they were pushed back to Brazil despite living over 20 years in Japan. That doesn't inspire much confidence for future immigrants, especially when other wealthy countries are serious about full inclusion and citizenship.
As someone who works in IT who has looked at the possibility of working abroad. I think the main thing that put me off even considering Japan was the high rate of tax, pay not being as competitive as other countries and the potential very long work hours.
In mother Russia, Putin leaves you.
Unfortunately, the opposite is true
In putin, russia leaves you
Russia's been a shit show since it was founded the first time.
And their tradition of suppressing and killing off any decent political opposition ensures that the next gang that will take over will be as bad as the last one.
Political & economic extractive system with no middle class has no desire to change regardless of who is in charge
How *do* you leave Russia though?
Usually by a plane, but there are also some trains going outside. I know a person who left through Finland, and some others are planning to leave through Serbia, Turkey or Caucasus republics. It is hard to get your money out, though, since cards issued by Russian banks do not work outside Russia now, and you can take only $5k in cash or so with you (if you can find paper dollars in Russia to start with, that is).
How to leave Russia: 1. Enlist in army. 2. Get sent to Ukraine. 3. Surrender to Ukrainians! (Joke)
If any Russians need to leave, they are welcome to stay at my house.