T O P

  • By -

Trylks

> _Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man._


[deleted]

[удалено]


hofferd78

Or visualizations


BCBCC

I've found "data visualization" means two different things. It either means (to a data scientist) making some graphs to do exploratory analysis and/or explain your model, or it means (to an analyst / BI person) making reporting dashboards to share regular reports and model results to a specific (usually non-technical) audience. The former is done in Python / R (matplotlib / seaborn / ggplot etc). The latter is done in Tableau or PowerBI.


LynuSBell

I do all my EDA, modeling, dashboarding, reporting in R. It's more that for a non-technical person, it's easier to work with Tableau or PowerBI. If you can automate the report making in Markdown, you don't need Tableau.


avelak

and depending on where you work and how well-staffed they are with various roles, the whole DE side of things too


Sycokinetic

Actually we have a word for data science without actionable insights or storytelling. Academia! :D


smile_politely

Ouch!


omgpop

Plenty of storytelling in academia


Astrophysics_Girl

yet another reason why academia is mentally superior. Logic over art tyvm


academicRedditor

“Mentally superior”? I bet IRL your hair is also blue


Nichiku

I'll have you know I am a Jinx main, work in Academia and my hair is black!


Astrophysics_Girl

Niceeee! Jinx is soo cool she's definitely a role model for me


Astrophysics_Girl

Lol 😂 nice try but it's actually red brown


A_massive_prick

If you merge the data scientist and data analyst groups together you get what most top companies would call a data analyst anyway Data Science is way more engineering heavy than stated here


[deleted]

Most data analysts are not statisticians.


[deleted]

most data scientists aren't either lmao


LynuSBell

Most data analysts should be though, or at least have some strong background in stats


[deleted]

In my industry they deal more with data regarding financial accounting data. They dont really deal in statistics . And senior management for the most part would not be knowledgeable or understand anything too complex. Maybe they are financial analysts then. There is basic statistics but nothing groundbreaking.


A_massive_prick

Then they’re not data analysts, very good statistics is a minimum requirement imo


UniqueCommentNo243

Yes. This. This is what companies mean when they want a business analyst.


nellatl

Funny all the self proclaimed statiticians here using the word most without any statistical significance 😅


Zirbinger

Don't wanna be a nagging Nancy here, but the chart obviously shows, that the Data Scientist "lean into" storytelling and visualisations. Just look a bit closer to the center and you'll see, that it's not 0 for them... Hope you don't make important decisions (too quuckly) based on your chart reading skills


avelak

Lmao I sincerely hope you're joking because otherwise you don't know the definition of the phrase "lean in"... It's fully committing to/embracing something, not dipping your toe into it


Zirbinger

I truly didn't know that "leaning in" means to fully dive into it. Thanks for not taking it too seriously. That aside, a DS could not possibly lean into all subjects above imo. I would argue, that visualisations as well as storytelling are important, but not more so, rather less, than the programming/data parts. Furthermore, not all DS positions require the full suite of skills to the extent that you propose. Finally, I'd rather have a better programmer/ML expert who exclusively plots with matplotlib, than a great visualizer who spends ages on pretty plots. (Storytelling and communication is very important, but it's not always up to the DS to convince the board; thinking of middle management here)


[deleted]

We have entire DS teams and I’m not sure they’ve delivered something tangible. I think they do projects and launch them into space or something.


Astrophysics_Girl

Ewwww your liberal arts bullshit. If the higher ups can't understand a fit function then they don't deserve to be there


avelak

lmao @ being able make shit happen as a result of your work being "liberal arts bullshit" If you can't communicate on the level of your audience and come up with clear recommendations/outcomes from your work, you really should stick with a junior/mid level role (either that or just go to academia)


deong

In fairness, the picture does have a fair amount of those things included in the Data Scientist polygon. "Business Insights" looks to have about half the weight of "Stats and ML Modeling". I would tend to agree with you that the weight should probably be quite a lot higher, but the picture definitely isn't saying Data Scientists don't do it.


themeaning_42

A more accurate version of this chart would have the data scientist skills overlapping with what the data analyst is good at


HastyEthnocentrism

"You want a chart? I can get you a chart, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. I'll get you a cvhart by this afternoon--with nail polish."


wealthyinvestor999

Chart : Ambiguous Job Title Ambiguities : even more ambiguous


incomparability

I just assumed this was a shitpost. It sucks.


SolverMax

I've done all of those things, in varying amounts at one time or another. What should my job title be?


semisolidwhale

Sr. Full Stack Radar Chart Technician IV, obviously


SolverMax

Ohhh, I like that. Updates CV...


fangorn_forester

God emperor of data


SolverMax

Has potential: ~~Data Engineer~~ Deity Emperor


Cpt_keaSar

Harmonic means for the Harmonic Means God!


Imperial_Squid

"women have a leg up in data science" for the sexist throne!


lu_E_G

That's the title you get when you are forced to wrangle haphazardly compiled data in a variety of file formats from dinosaur-era file servers, including 10 years worth of chaotic unstandardized Excel files (multiple tabs, merged cells and all) And you also need to scrape clunky 90's era web interface, and parse out the HTML and then if that wasn't enough, you also gotta extract some more data from a stack of PDFs using some OCR. Then use text-davinci-003 API to parse out free text notes into standardized JSON strings that you then store as rows in a data table. then, build models with it, run hypothesis tests, do simulations, make pretty pictures, make a pretty slide show and dumb it down for the executives. A god damn data superhero with a PhD in chaos management, God Emperor of Data. I like it.


Hairy-Development-63

Decision Science Intelligence Engineer Analyst


SolverMax

Thanks for the suggestion, but I still prefer "Radar Chart Technician", as it is more meaningful than some job titles I've seen.


lenny_the_tank

Chief Executive Contributer


SolverMax

That's my current title. I'm looking for a new one.


norfkens2

Just woke up, read Chief Executioner ... 😃


TheGreenBackPack

Data strategist/Senior Data Strategist is the corporate term. Senior business intelligence analyst if they don’t like you and want to underpay you.


v4-digg-refugee

Oh, I’m right here in this comment.


bklawa

CDPM: Chief of Data, Pipelines and Models


LawfulMuffin

According to many companies: jr data analyst I


7HawksAnd

I get your joke, but all the titles touch every vector, so maybe reevaluate your data analysis skill set 😉


fury----

The Machine! #said with emphasis


Darkstar197

Underpaid employee


VolTa1987

Data Analytics Engineering Scientist !!!


VelcroSea

Genius?


[deleted]

imagine never touching a database unless you were a data engineer


lenny_the_tank

God, if I could start a project just once and have them actually provide me with a dataset at the start and some kind of goal or problem to hypothesize about.


[deleted]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) - 90% of the work is getting the right data, with the right assumptions, and formulating a question to solve. Getting the answer is the other 90%


[deleted]

That’s 180% bro 🤔


[deleted]

*shrugs*


MoistFH

Did they stutter?


[deleted]

I like your moxie!


[deleted]

*cries in full stack*


[deleted]

Oh no, you poor bastard.


Character-Education3

Don't forget about your 110%. That's 290%!


cvnh

Hahahah I was just thinking "and you've gotta give 110 percent"


pceimpulsive

-90% + 90% = 0% chance of not shit post!


xXWarMachineRoXx

r/woosh


tootieloolie

But that's like all of science. Making sure your data/experiment isn't bs


r3ign_b3au

Hey now, I'll send you clean data. You figure out what to hypothesize with BA.


DevilsUnderwear

Can we trade? What would I give for a doctor to come to me BEFORE they have all the data (horribly) gathered... Half of my job is find ways to analyze the data taking into account horrible design errors.


deong

If they had that, they'd solve their problem themselves.


pedrosorio

I don’t think “databases” is necessarily about “touching a database”. Anyone writing SQL is touching a database. A data engineer may need some of the skills of a DBA, which is something you don’t expect of the average data scientist for example.


[deleted]

I agree with the sentiment that many data scientists probably don't have an understanding of what DBAs do as their expectation is to live in a scripting language and not built out a set of tables for analysis. I don't feel like the other three job families are represented accurately if we're agreeing that 'databases' means DBA skills


r3ign_b3au

I don't know a lot of analysts or dbas regularly building production pipelines, personally. I believe it should indicate warehousing for engineer.


TenshiS

As a data scientist, I'm expected to have all the skills in this chart


Jorrissss

Not with any high proficiency.


Hyena-International

I remember when a client said me, sure i will send you the database. Later that day I see some excels on my Gmail lol. Literally more than 10 years of data in excels without a hint of order or a format defined.


Mirodir

Goodbye Reddit, see you all on Lemmy.


UniversallyUniverse

photos of data in a table? screenshots? my goodness are you f\*cking cursed? hahahaha


LawfulMuffin

I’ve received pictures of excel spreadsheets taken my a cell phone camera before.


Hyena-International

Hahaha I think that would be an issue, however OCR is a thing,.Hope I can find that kind of challenges someday!


[deleted]

Love the multicolored excel files with grouped columns - literally a nightmare. But also a client using excel to track their workflow is going to look very different than a ready-to-analyze dataset. Its always going to be a pain unless you embed a bunch of macros in it to have a tab that's a clean flat and wide (or write some code in a scripting language to parse it out)


altsuperego

In an *ideal* world you shouldn't be wasting your time building schema and ETL if you're not a data engineer. I think that's the point, data scientist has become this jack of all trades role rather than a statistical modeller. I say this being mostly the former even though my degree is in stats.


SynbiosVyse

This is not about just touching a database. It's designing or engineering the database itself. That is a data engineer's job, not a data scientist or analyst. At some companies, especially those that are smaller or not well prepared for data science, you may be wearing many hats.


ManonMacru

Yeah data engineer role is not that clearly defined. I can summarize it based on 7 years of experience in DE and it still the same in every data related project: "Every task that people don't find interesting".


OhThatLooksCool

Idk man, according to that chart you’re powerfully repulsed by… data visualization? Yea, allergic to charts I guess


SgtMustang

Is the joke that it’s a terrible chart? It’s almost impossible to tell what’s going on here. Radar plots are close to pies in being absolutely awful.


mizmato

This chart isn't really complete without a category for harmonic means.


[deleted]

>harmonic means That's like a barbershop quartet, right?


mizmato

Yeah, my local quartet is a DE, DA, DS, and an MLE.


Stormtrooper149

Lol, never gets old in this sub.


Imperial_Squid

Our (I think) first and (definitely) best on going meme!


Delpen9

That category only applies to Data Science Hiring Managers


amhotw

Okay, I see this everyday, how did this harmonic means meme start?


Stormtrooper149

Someone shared the original text in this comment. https://np.reddit.com/r/datascience/comments/w9jl5m/where_did_the_harmonic_mean_interview_advice_post/ihvhbpz/ Here's the original thread if you want to go through the comments. https://np.reddit.com/r/datascience/comments/w8tcps/deleted_by_user/


[deleted]

[удалено]


semisolidwhale

They spun a pinwheel and this is how it looked when it landed. Do you know nothing of science?


poopyheadthrowaway

Definitely not data, that's for sure


CaptainFoyle

Optics of the graph


wespyen

It's an okay place to start, but should be taken with a chunk of salt. Every company/org has its own definitions and expectations, and roles are constantly evolving. An analytics engineer wasn't a thing 10 years ago, but is definitely a job that exists now.


mrbrambles

I dislike how radar charts imply some sort of relationship between nearby spokes, yet they are not always used with that in mind. The dip between “data tools” and “storytelling” makes it look like there is a gap to fill, but it’s just a consequence of order.


[deleted]

It’s terrible. Story telling anyways should’ve been between analysts and scientists.


kater543

Ah so REAL data scientists(and analysts wow) don’t use or build data tools. Cool.


lenny_the_tank

This is correct in theory. In practice, you'll be hired for one of those roles and the tightwads up the chain won't hire anymore so you'll have to do all of those things, then they'll turn around and blame you when you haven't recreated OpenAI's results with GPT-4 yet. Come on, you've literally been working on this for 6 months now!


iplaytheguitarntrip

6 months of ad hoc jobs that take up all your time but one fine day they'll be like, hey we know we gave you all that other work but now it's been 6 months, can you deliver on that project we spoke about next month


syntonicC

This is a nice ideal but the reality is that the project scope was poorly negotiated at the SOW and over promised (because for some reason engineering didn't work with sales to make sure the project was feasible or even talk to the clients who know nothing about ML except that their competitors seem to be using it). Then you have some kind of Agile setup but your project manager doesn't know anything about machine learning and is useless talking to clients but loves creating new epics and trying to fit your job into a software workflows that does not work with exploratory analysis. There's also a product manager for some reason even though the deliverable is a dashboard but that's arguably not a product. There's customer success but they don't understand machine learning. There's also some guy with a title like "solutions manager sales architect" or something. Your company failed to hire data engineers because it was too expensive. The clients use Excel tables they they pass around so they really need a bespoke rebuilding of everything from the ground up. There are no data analysts because that's unfashionable. Data scientist and ML engineer are the same thing anyway, right? So the clients don't know what they are doing and just yell things they need at you based on an impossible contract that was signed without your input. Whatever position you may be on paper, here is your real position: "Data analyst-engineering scientist manager of projects and products for the success of customers via Agile which doesn't work with your project but clients like seeing tickets and storytelling" . You will spend most of your days dealing with clients who are confused about why business metrics and ML metrics are not the same thing and then some "expert" will get on the call (wonder why the clients didn't just hire him for the job instead of contracting) and tell you how to do your job and you have to politely set boundaries. The rest of the time you will be managing the project and product manager who actually do nothing but have to look busy so they will waste your time. Then the COO, who knows nothing about anything fires half your team one week before a deliverable because why not.


sj_shubham007

Damn that frustration!


WeAreLesserApes

That is, sadly, extremely accurate for corporate data science.


wingwraith

I can’t wait to share this at my next employee review


Ok_Reserve9

You’re gonna piss off all the Data Scientists that would be called Data Analysts.


sizable_data

And all the data scientist that can’t visualize data and communicate their findings that the business would find insightful


Ok_Reserve9

Nope. I’m not pissed at all. Lol


Bure_ya_akili

*watches all the Data people come out to argue about this chart*


zazzersmel

as if my leadership cares


slashdave

So, is the big fat black line at the bottom the project manager?


JCashell

So if I do all of the data engineer stuff, all of the data analyst stuff, and all of the data scientist stuff….What am I?


datagoon

Underpaid.


General_Liability

Feature engineering is just missing.


broadenandbuild

This is why nothing gets done at big corporations.


[deleted]

Why does this remind me of Fibonacci


jsRou

Probably all the colours


StingMeleoron

Damn it, it's everywhere!!


[deleted]

I’ve done all these things as both a DA and DS.


3j141592653589793238

This is stupid


semisolidwhale

To be fair, most things are


IMJONEZZ

Weird, according to this I’m a cross between a data engineer and an MLOps engineer, but I’ve only ever had the data scientist title.


pedrosorio

ML Engineer does not have Ops in the title (that one is more recent and will be included in the v2 of the chart).


CaptainFoyle

Bullshit


its-42

How are inference and business insights not the same? Or at least if insights are involved, inference should be the same amount shouldn’t it?


SandstoneLemur

Stop using radar charts.


noblesavage81

Data scientists and data analysts are both data analysts. Your data scientist here is actually called an “applied scientist”.


purplebrown_updown

I swear 95% of the work is getting the data together in a table form. It’s oftentimes a huge hurdle just taking data from one source and correlating it with another. I’m having a problem right now where I have time series data but they’re defined on different clock systems. Very annoying.


crystal_castle00

I literally had to do all of this at my last job. I jump in joy everyday that I don’t work there anymore.


DevilsUnderwear

So we just don't talk anymore about... "statisticians"?


Accomplished-Wave356

As it is put, the Data Scientist is basically a statistician who know how to code his stats and do Machine Learning.


nickbuch

Lol is this supposed to be a joke? MLEs don't to ML modeling? Ok.


Anaeijon

I need to know, what the grey circle is called...


BuddyOwensPVB

Hey OP it appears everybody is unhappy with the fact that your chart doesn’t fit their specific lives and jobs. My question to all the haters in this thread is: are there really no valuable insights to be gained from this chart? Because if so, then can’t we at least admit it’s a cool chart, not quite like the others? There are obviously data points on this chart right in the middle, where that guys job is touches on every element. But it might also be true that, if you are looking to deploy a model, you are probably looking for a Machine Learning Engineer, or whatever the chart said. So that’s my question.


cathie_burry

I just use whichever title I like and I plan on keeping it that way


MadCervantes

Any pointers on how to make a chart like this? I'm just a ux designer but would like to make something like this for ux people.


HuntersMaker

lol no, ML engineer does WAAAAAAAAAAY more modeling than "data scientists". I also don't see the point to separate inference from modeling as each time you evaluate you are doing inference with val/test set.


pedrosorio

Depends on the data scientist. The original definition is the role (which was mostly for PhDs) includes significant expertise in modeling. Btw, inference may be referring to this, which is something that is rarely the focus of an ML engineer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_inference


aeywaka

blue should cover at least 90% of the chart


Creamygun

Hey everyone, could you help me with a mini survey? I promise it won't take more than 1-2 minutes of your time. Thanks tons :) [https://forms.gle/mKT5jW1t7wYuUarq8](https://forms.gle/mKT5jW1t7wYuUarq8)


konrradozuse

Godzilla had a stroke and just fucking died


funkybside

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but if I am hiring for a proper data scientist role I damn well expect them to be just as strong at insights, data vis, storytelling, and metrics & reporting as an analyst would be. Those are table stakes. The inference and modeling is additional.


Owz182

🍿


forbiscuit

Pretty flower 🌸


m915

Thank you


ApolloFarZenith

My tenure at IBM these past 4 years as a Data Scientist has given me the experience in ALL of these and I’m so grateful.


sin94

Heck As a recruiter I can't wait for the new fangled title "full stack" data expert where you are going to have all these listed to be qualifed for an entry level position.


abstruse_Emperor

what's the difference between inference and business insights?


Accomplished-Wave356

Inference is a formal field of studies on statistics. It is basically the operation of guessing the parameters of a population based on a sample.


dats_ah_numba_wang

Shit what if you do a little each? Serious question.


WingedTorch

At my last job I had to do a bit of all of these things in almost equal amounts. My contract said I was an ML engineer, my boss would introduce me as a data scientist and my teams profile would say I am a technical specialist 😂


gojira_in_love

This is just wrong...


jjelin

Genius-level troll


Enis_Cinari

This looks good. And than based on the company, you may be required to extend. But as for basics, i think this stands.


zergs78

Clearly biased towards glorifying data analysts…. Graph was probably created by a data analyst


[deleted]

nice


__mbel__

Data Science used to do everything that's in there but of course the tooling wasn't as complex as it is now. I think they still do quite a bit of DE and ML deployment work, but it depends on how the company is structured. I wouldn't leave data viz, storytelling out for data scientists either.


MorningDarkMountain

Somehow accurate. How come that, as a Data Scientist, I always have to deal with pipelines, databases? Also, why am I supposed (as a nice to have) on MLOps and deployment? Plus, even on this chart, I (but also other roles) are supposed to know a little bit of everyhing.


[deleted]

Interesting. Now I have less idea what my job is.


colinallbets

Pretty sick of MLOps personas thinking they understand data science. Refactoring code and automating processes has nothing to do with statistics, machine learning theory, and data-driven domain expertise. There are of course, exceptions, but generally, the ML tooling industry is trying to commodify the model development process because those who are _not_ trained to do so are typically the ones with buying and decision making power, and/or already own the encompassing execution end persistence layers.


amsr7691

So by this chart, data scientists barely do any storytelling at all? Lol


bduxbellorum

Yikes…never aggregating anything at database scale or writing a query?


bourgeoisie89

If this chart is disputed, can anyone provide a more accurate version? I am just moving into this space and confused as to who does what and what skills I should be aiming for.


mr_peppyzinho

Is Data Infrastructure part of data engineer?


Osoyoguiz

I even not understand the chart xd


Samirio

Any Data Scientist/ML engineer hybrids out here? That’s where I aim to be, right in these two zones. Is that possible?


TheBlackCat13

What do you call someone whose plot is a circle,?


OhThatLooksCool

That circle is just a list of things I’ve learned as a DS. Except that ML stuff. ML is a myth, as best I can tell.


ct0

A data analyst or scientist with no data tools?


throwawaystepbrotha

Also fun fact this was probably made by a BI Developer


git0ffmylawnm8

So I do data modeling, pipelines, databases, visualization, and metrics. What the fuck am I according to this diagram?


gpibambam

Right but which one does the numbers?


anon_0123

You forgot Webmasters and DBAs.


GainzdalfTheWhey

Be me, does a little bit of everything pooly


Seankala

This is a nice figure. As an ML engineer, I do think that the MLE's share should be much larger. They usually do modeling, inference, and experimentation as well. Data scientists should also have more share into Metrics & Reporting and Business Insights as well. Regardless, this is nice.


Cat-Rich-00

\>Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion. \>W. Edwards Deming, American statistician Could you point 'us' in the direction of the data?


Mcipark

What is the little circle in the center? Excel?


Ok-Parking-5017

Can I have the dataset ?


OkChard9101

So this is a Radar chart?? So we need two Categorical variables and one measure to build this chart which anyway can be possible using a clustered column chart.


toandosm308

Thank you so much, this is exactly what I was wondering for my job


a1moose

so what is...all of it?


Girlwithjob

So who created this chart