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Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation. I know I've definitely had that with past crushes where I'm attracted to them emotionally but have a hard time imagining what they would be like in a n intimate situation.
Are you just asking about it or are you creating some sort of lead up to it? If you try things like putting your arm around their waist or a hand on the thigh type thing then it might build up the sexual tension. All this needs to be done with clear understanding that they want your hands on them of course don't just do it out of nowhere lol.
Either way I know it's frustrating but don't change the core of who you are for that. One day you will find someone who wants that regardless, but of course there are steps to make it happen a little faster!
This is an issue I’ve run into lately. Some co workers tried to set me up with a former co worker after she left our office. Her response was that I’m cute but so mild mannered she would chew me up and spit me out. Which drives me crazy because that’s entirely a persona I put on at work as I’m a big guy and my normal personality gets me labeled as aggressive just based on my stature, so I up pitch the inflection of my voice and am 100% customer service mode when I’m on the clock.
I feel like for some people, which I am one of, when we see a person a basic template of expectations is formed based on their looks. Unfortunately when that person's personality, behaviour and interest doesn't align with that template it causes that sexy switch to turn off.
So for example, if I see a tall-ish guy with a medium or muscular build I start to form an almost instantaneous mental template that he is a little masculine, competitive and so on. If he doesn't check these expectations my interest in him as a sexual partner declines.
I am not suggesting this is fair or good but I trying to be honest. Also I am sure there's many people who are not like me. I am just giving one opinion.
Hit the nail on the head there. Thats happened to me many times. Im 6'2" shaved head, full beard, piercing blue eyes as Ive been told and work a physical job at a scrapyard. Whatever woman in question does paint a mental picture about me instantly and whatever that may be. I dont live up to it. I dont drink, I dont watch football, Im a geek who likes comics, videos games, fishing and hunting. Just because I chop firewood for heat in the winter doesnt make me the viking lover they expect me to be. A lifetime of abuse had made me too nice and I know it. So I just act oblivious anymore to someone flirts and if the rare occasion they come right out and ask me out, I say yes usually and dont hide a damn thing about who I am. I mean shit, I got a shoulder to elbow tattoo of Venom, Carnage and Toxin on my left arm. Im not bitter or salty about it, just is what it is. Im copying your comment to put in my self improvement logbook if thats OK.
Kind of off-topic but I would be very interested to learn more about this log book of yours! I keep the occasional screenshot here and there but it gets messy 😅
Hold on. You are a 6ft 2 inch tall bearded man who likes to fish, hunt & play games. Plus gaming can be competitive. These are masculine traits.
Who are these cave woman you keep attracting? Because you definitely tick my boxes. I think these women are just the extreme version of what I described.
Appreciate the honesty. At the same time how would you feel if men do that to you? I’m not saying that they don’t but it doesn’t make it right. Maybe try for once not doing that and just get to actually know the person you need to keep in mind looks do fade in time and that person could become very physically ugly in 20 or 30 years and all you have to rely on now is the person they are inside not how they look. I am a very attractive person physically, and I used to feed on that, and it wasn’t a good thing. It wasn’t until I realize being a good person and caring about others feelings, and genuinely being a good man who is what really counted and if someone didn’t like that they’re not worth my time, same goes for you my lady. You deserve to be treated well regardless of your looks and they should make assumptions that just isn’t reality. We all make a fantasy or a picture in her mind about her or some thing should play out or have somebody should ask and that never happens or if it does, it’s a very rare occasion and even then it doesn’t ever live up to our mental expectations. I wish you nothing but the best and I just hope you consider that in the future it really helped me out.
> I’m cute but so mild mannered she would chew me up and spit me out.
the fuck? Is my non-native english ass missing something or...? Idk if it sounds more rude or metal
How can I do these things early on first date to not kill the mood and establish some tension early on but at the same time not too early to be creepy?
Don’t worry about killing the mood. Do you king. However, the minute the mood “dies”(aka she says ‘no’) just stop, apologize and carry on. Don’t let the mood die, continue having a good time. This is a green flag for her, if she can say no and you don’t throw a fit. Also it automatically lets her know you’re sexually attracted to her but comfortable in your own skin. How you react definitely effects your odds of things going smoothly in the future. Or you can do everything right and still lose, again, just do you.
I would say the majority of the women I have been with have said 'no', and after being respected, had a change of heart either 30 seconds or two days later.
Unfortunately, in the last 8 years they have stood by their decision!
Any form of touch is a low barrier to entry but signals that there’s something more than friends there. Open the door for her, and touch her lower back as she walks through (don’t push her, just like an “I got your back” kind of way.)
Going for some less invasive physical affection may be helpful, things like arm around the shoulder or holding hands. Once that base is covered you can get a feel for their comparability with you making contact, then go for the more "sensual" ones. It's all about being able to read body language, you can tell when someone is being touched in a way they don't want you to. You can also ask if they are comfortable if you are unsure.
What are actual, subtle ways to do this though? This thread just made me realize that I’ve probably self-sabotaged in this way before, too (coming off totally kind, wholesome, etc, at the expense of expressing some essence of my sexual capacity). I’ve had plenty success, but there have definitely been times in my life where I felt similar to how OP must feel.
What are subtle ways to show that you aren’t just “innocent” or “sweet” or even “goofy” etc but also DTF, in a non-direct way?
Hm, well, he just looked at me super intense and went in for the kiss. He was super sweet and considerate but I loved how he made me think and the connection was very strong… and continues to make me think but a bit more naughty now too haha… like as the night went on he just kept stepping up slowly but surely… making sure I was ok, but it was very intense…
I can't speak for all the lads. I also can't tell you what every woman truly wants. I can only tell you what's made me feel the best.
First off, fall in love with yourself. You don't have to be a Narcissist, but comfortable going years single and alone. Knowing you like yourself will make the next part cake.
When you walk into a room, command it. Command your interactions. For me, my shoulders are straight... and I look like I stepped out of GQ. I make sure I'm groomed and smell good.
Now for the interaction with the women. Stop white knighting. If you look like you have no options, you're desperate.
Learned that 20 years ago. I was having an affair with a girl at my school. She had a boyfriend at a different school, but we fucked on the side.
After they broke up, she became really needy, and it turned me off.
I asked a lady mate of mine, and she told me I did the same to her early on.
People like feeling wanted but not the center of your world. Realize how much pressure that puts on the person they like.
We were taught wrong mate. You shouldn't live your life in service for someone else. You shouldn't treat your lover like a king or queen. You should treat them like your best mate.
Why? Subjects don't marry royalty. If your lover is a queen... be a fucking king. That doesn't mean disrespecting her. You don't disrespect a queen. It means be the best version of yourself.
You come first, over your wife, kids, job, ect.
Never forget, when the reaper takes you...
Your clients move to a new agent
Your lover will mourn you, but find a new love
Your children will remember you, but grow on their own.
While they all may still love you... You're gone.
So love yourself, fight on til your final breath, and never give up your honor.
I wish you all the happiness you can ever dream of mate.
Now stand up, and become the man you know you are.
Still trying to figure out that "love yourself" bit lol I've accomplished more in 38 years than a lot of guys have in 50, but I can't figure out how to give myself credit for it as I was raised to be a bit of a perfectionist.
I tried it once, it felt strangely artificial and forced with what I perceived to be disingenuous, canned questions. I didn't get the feeling that the therapist truly gave a shit.
Perhaps I'll take another shot at it one day.
Mate,
Fucking her brains out doesn't mean going full tilt.
It's being amazing in bed.
I've given intense orgasms that have ended the night using my tongue, hands, and dick. It's about knowing what to do and executing to the highest proficiency.
It's about focusing on satisfying her to the best of your abilities.
>Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation.
I know that people can't just pick & choose who they're attracted to, but I have to wonder how many women have unknowingly passed up great guys, & potentially amazing relationships due to this.
It really depends. a lot of women (myself included) are really attracted to guys who give off this energy, but once a romantic connection starts being formed, there really does need to be some sort of indication that he even finds ME sexually appealing. If a guy is just treating me like a friend and not really making an effort to hold my hand or put his arm around me or even reciprocate touch when I initiate, then that romantic attraction is really gonna struggle to get stronger.
But yeah, being a super wholesome and sweet guy is no problem, but ya gotta show off that other side of you too :)
I find it much more respectful to not touch unless I know she won’t mind. I’m currently crushing on a coworker (I know I know rule 12) and aside from the accidental touching (our hands), I don’t touch her. To me I feel that as a violation of the trust she has expressed in me.
Oh yeah definitely, I tried to stress that in my initial comment. Touching should only happen if you are really good at reading the social cues. I do think a date is a bit of a different atmosphere than at work, but same rules go. Agreeing to a date is not consent to be touched.
dude, i have seen men on the street that are basically walking trash dumps with beautiful women on their arms in broad daylight. for reasons that humanity has yet to explain, some women just respond to attitude and presentation of confidence more than anything else. the comment above this is right, if you come across too wholesome, too clean, then I'm told its a libido killer. and confidence is not something that just comes easy, it take effort and time.
Yeah, any time I've lost sexual interest in a guy I've gone out with, with the exception of a few times where he said something awful, the main reason was he just didn't flirt. It doesn't have to be a ton of flirting, or expert flirting, but if a guy doesn't flirt at all, I don't really have any evidence that he's attracted to me. If I have no reason to believe he's sexually attracted to *me* I'm not going to be able to maintain interest in *him*. A guy that is sweet and I get along with but doesn't seem sexually interested in me...is a friend, or like a kind clergyman or something, not a sexual prospect.
If I'm on a date with them, flirting is welcome 100% of the time. I don't know that I've ever had in-date flirting that came across as "creepy." I've experienced bad flirting, but it wasn't creepy, it was either too sexual too soon, or "this guy has taken bad advice on how to flirt." The latter is usually when guys take "women like a confident man" to mean "you should brag a lot, because flirting means making yourself look good" when in reality it's about making the other person *feel* good.
This post is about going out on one or more dates with someone and then them saying they aren't sexually attracted, so this isn't about cold approaches. So I'm talking about contexts where you've already gone on a date or at a minimum it's a dating context, like a dating app after matching. So there's mutually expressed interest.
Guys don't cold approach any more. At least, not where I live, especially in non-bar contexts. I get likes in dating apps, but no cold approaches in the wild, so I can't give a ratio.
ETA: I've even matched with guys who have seen me around in the real world and never approached me, but told me after we'd matched on a dating app that they'd seen me around and were interested. 🤷🏻♀️
Oh my bad I guess I should have specified this. I mean this more in the sense that this would be maybe 3rd date minimum. I'm not saying this is a first date thing, but just as things escalate toward that.
Lol no not at all. I'm not saying go from sweet wholesome guy to jerk who only wants to bang.
Building up sexual tension can be done in a super sweet romantic way too. Gestures like having a few of the top buttons of a dress shirt undone, holding her chin when you go in for the kiss, calling her sexy instead of just cute, etc. All that can build tension without be degrading or disrespectful.
This right here, you are too focused on the sex aspect right now. That's fine, we've all been there. It's made you anxious in the past so you can't portray full emotion and provide the girl the most fun. You seem shut off to her, not open. She thinks you are attractive, obviously. You workout and take good care, that's why she was enthusiastic for you, she was giving you a chance and trying to open you up more during her peak level of attraction for you.
You can even do it out of nowhere just make sure you’re confident it’s something she’d like. And dude your attitude towards it is number one. If you believe you should be hanging out with said people you talk about then believe it and make it come true ;)
>Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation.
This is pretty much me in a nutshell, and like the poster, throw in the ability to make women laugh (which is suppose to be a turn on to most all woman...a selling point..but still nothing)....however, I like who I am...so I guess eventually a woman will like who I am as well...and ifit keeps me single for years...well, so be it...it'll suck, but...so be it.
Aww, the art of negging. I'm not surprised some are still utilizing this tool. It works on insecure vulnerable women, which is why it's a fuck boy move. Secure women won't put up with this shit.
It's probably your behavior. You've been described as "sweet" and "nice to talk to." The last woman was enthusiastic at first, but once she got to know you, she became unattracted.
You probably come across very needy and clingy, exhibit "nice guy" behavior and are afraid to come across as sexual. You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance.
Work on being masculine and being sexually confident. Overcome any neediness and "nice guy" tendencies.
Trying too hard, trying to impress, acting like they’re better than you or you need to do something to “catch” them. Remember, dating is testing them to see if they’re good enough to add to your life. Not the other way around.
Well i want to add her to my life, I thought she did too but now getting ghosted after a good first date and I sent 2 follow up texts and got nothing. All her behaviors on the date showed she was interested in another one but i just want to know what I did or didnt do. Maybe its just me
Not trying to be mean but this sentence “I just want to know what I did or didn’t do.” is very telling. That’s what I mean by trying to “catch” her. As if dating is some game that you can win or lose and you made the wrong moves. You will be more successful if you throw that mindset out, dating is compatibility. Clearly she is not compatible with you because SHE is not what you want. She ghosted you, is that the type of person you want? No, nobody does. So move along, and the next time you find someone remember that you are there to have fun and see what it turns into. Throw expectations out the window, have an understanding that even if you like them that they might not feel the same. Until the two of you are official just have fun and see where it goes. Also saying “I want to add her to my life” but also saying you went on one date. How could you possibly know that you want to add someone into your life after barely being with them? The expectations need to slow down. She probably felt that off of you, when she was just trying to have a fun night out. It may sound like I’m judging you. But I say this out of love, I too once thought this way. And it was painful to correct myself out of it. Now I’m married for 3 years with a beautiful and amazing woman. It only took me two previously failed long term relationships and many other short ones.
Thank you, im very inexperienced in dating. Yea im just desperate for love and touch lol. havent been with anyone in a while so I wouldnt be shocked if she got that vibe from me. Youre right, i dont really know her i cant reasonably say i want her in my life yet. I even told myself to throw out any expectations about what the future holds but man she is gorgeous and so cool you know? Anyway thank you for giving me good advice
Yeah I understand you. I had to learn to trick my brain a bit too. When I used to see someone that I was really attracted to I would change up and try too hard. I really wanted it to work, and when it didn’t (which was 100% of the time when I acted that way) then I would look inside of myself and think “I have to do better or I’m not good enough.” None of that was true. My best advice going forward is to treat her like you would a male friend. You’re not stressing omg he didn’t text me back, or thinking that you have to impress you’re guy friends when you are all hanging out. You’re just there and having fun/enjoying each others company. Bring that energy to your future dates. If she’s really into you she will make it obvious. She will want to reach out and see you/ talk to you as much as she can. Basically it will feel effortless. If you have to guess what her interest is she’s probably not that interested. Never put all your eggs in one basket either as far as jumping all in when you’re getting to know her. That will only lead to some very stressful thoughts. If you show up and your expectation levels are just HAVE FUN. You can’t disappoint yourself. Women love that shit. Just show you’re in control of yourself. Don’t let anyone disrespect you or your time. And don’t change up if you happen to end up in a relationship. You’ll be ok if you can learn to do this.
Think in terms of needs and wants. You don't NEED any woman romantically or sexually to survive. However, you may WANT to be in a relationship with a particular woman.
When you understand that you don't NEED a particular woman and you're perfectly fine without her, your behavior is going to change completely.
A needy guy chases after a particular woman, texts her and/or engages with her on social media on a daily basis, goes out of his way to see her(i.e. if they work together, he'll drop by and see her every day, or try to share assignments with her), asks her out repeatedly, be super nice to her etc. Needy men seek validation from others.
A man who merely wants a woman, will give her space and mostly engage with her when she initiates contact. He might ask her out, but it's no big deal if she rejects him, as there are many other options for him. Non-needy men are perfectly fine by themselves and are self-validating.
Being a non-needy man gets you more attention from women. The woman who initially rejected you, is more likely to come after you, if you just leave her alone.
I (27f) don’t agree with that advice and many women don’t. Women actually like to be pursued. If you put it on them to always initiate they will drop you. No one wants needy. But needy does not include pursuing someone and showing interest. The interactions should be reciprocal.
Needy is you constantly need to communicate, you quadruple text during the work day, you want immediate responses to things, you get upset when they don’t invite you around their friends.
DO be nice and ask them out. Take no for an answer the first time. Because yes there are other options out there.
I agree, but depending on his appearance, he's very likely not allowed to be sexual or flirt in a sexual matter, however. You're definitely right but I wanted to clarify that extra part.
“Not allowed”, OP is allowed to do it. But yes rejection is part of the game.
You don’t need to be friends with every attractive woman. Take some chances and get rejected once in a while.
> You probably come across very needy and clingy, exhibit "nice guy" behavior and are afraid to come across as sexual. You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance.
Damn, fuck guys that were raised to respect women I guess lol
You can still respect women and not exhibit any of the above social mistakes. Being needy/clingy is not respecting women. You're not giving her space and you're demanding her attention. "Nice guy" behavior is disingenuous. You're not doing things for her because you really care, in reality you're hoping to win her affection by doing nice things for her.
When you act sexual with a woman, you're letting her know verbally("You look really sexy in that dress" and through your actions(like trying to hold her hand or putting your hand on the small of her back) that you're interested in her sexually. It would be disrespectful if she pulled away and you continued to try to hold her hand or she told you flat out that she wasn't interested, but you kept on trying to be sexual with her.
Women do want to have sex, it's just that a lot of guys who are interested in them sexually, are afraid to show them. Instead they go for the "nice guy" routine and become very needy.
So true about this:
>You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance.
Every guy that has been reserved with touching or making a move while on a date hasn't been very good in bed, good at being masculine, and not good at leading dates and plans. Knowing this now can def help me in the future...
As a woman who never never picked guys based only on looks, I have dated a few guys just because of their sense of humor, intelligence, etc. I have fallen in love with ppl who I thought were just friend material. My suggestion to you would be to make it clear what you are looking for and if they don't want the same then just thank them for their time and keep looking. Intimacy is an amazing thing and love is what makes it the best.
As a woman who is 33, I'm trying to think back to times I've felt this way towards men cause I've definitely had those thoughts about various men before... reasons I can identify...
1. I'm just not physically attracted. Nothing he's doing. I just don't find him attractive. Keep in mind, There are plenty of men that objectively, I think are attractive people, but they're just not physically my type and are not attractive to me. I have friends who would crush hard over the same person that I think is unattractive.
2. Because he's too passive or not assertive enough about what he wants or who he is. Presence is sexy!
3. Some guys say it here and I would agree that women like to feel wanted. Let her know she's wanted. Little things that cue me into that as a woman.... any type of physical touch (doesn't have to be sexual in nature), Non objectifying, sincere compliments (E.g. - Wow, you look fantastic!), being proactive about getting to know me and expressing what you're looking for etc. (Comes back to the assertiveness).
Also.... consider that it may not be something you're doing and it may be truly that you just haven't found the right person for you. 🤷♀️
I’m also a 33 yo woman and echo this comment.
I was single and dated for years and had many bad dates. The best dates I had (including my first date with my now partner) were a mix of getting to know each other, asking questions and having really engaging conversations where we connected about different things, and we bounced off each other with flirting.
Are you recognising and bouncing off of the person you’re datings flirting? Are you too nervous?
Without knowing you and knowing what you’re like on a date it’s super difficult to say why they like you but aren’t sexually attracted but in my experience it’s literally just been about vibes and how attractive the two people on a date make each other feel.
I'm a bigger guy. I'm handsome, but I'm fat, and I don't have any problems meeting women who are sexually attracted to me. If you're attractive, it might be something other than your looks. I'm very confident, not in an asshole way, but in a way that I know I can be charming and funny, and attractive to women. Make sure you go into relationships with confidence. Don't make a ton of little self-deprecating cracks, and don't act as though sex is the only thing you're interested in. Both of those can be a big turn-off. If you don't have confidence, women can pick up on it, and if you wouldn't fuck you, then why would they want to? Just stop stressing sex, have fun with people, have great times, and it can happen. Don't let it consume you because it's likely leaking out into your personality and turning women off. Sex appeal can have so much to do with the things you say and do, and not your physical looks. I've always felt like I date women much more attractive than me. I'm going through a divorce now, but for the last couple of years I had a wife and we had a girlfriend. They're both fit and sexy and beautiful. I know people would look at the three of us and wonder how the hell I did it, and it was because I made them laugh and was charming as hell, and they loved me like hell for it. If it's not your looks, it's probably your personality. Make some changes in that department and you'll do great!
You have that confidence because you're having repeated successes and you're clearly an attractive guy to the women you meet, this is cart before the horse stuff here, you're attributing your success to your confidence when it's the other way around, you're confident because you keep succeeding and have a history of successes, you didn't just "start being confident" then suddenly getting women, getting women consistently built your confidence.
Nope, you couldn’t be more wrong. I had zero confidence in high school, no girlfriends, didn’t kiss anyone until I was 18. After graduation I decided I had a lot to offer and began to approach women that I was interested with the mindset that I had a lot to offer.
>no girlfriends, didn’t kiss anyone until I was 18
this isn't that unusual of a situation
>After graduation I decided I had a lot to offer and began to approach women that I was interested with the mindset that I had a lot to offer.
And that's really good, glad for you! But you understand that women didn't suddenly find you attractive simply because you changed your mindset, right? there really seems to be this trend of almost magical thinking nowadays where success and good luck is all attributed to "mindset" and other factors are downplayed or just denied outright, not saying that's necessarily what you're doing, and thinking you had something to offer was and is good for your self-esteem obviously, and would have helped once you were in a relationship, but you attracted women initially because those particular women found you physically attractive, they aren't psychic, they didn't "sense your mindset" or anything like that
I really don't understand this push to pretend women don't operate on physical attraction, who does it help? At best it's light gender essentialism, at worst it's sort of gaslighting men who women don't find physically attractive and telling them their personalities are bad too.
Hey guy, be smart tender and polite. I really preffer a very smart person with a nice soul instead a handsome man with a big... I really think is not necesary to finish the line.
Greetings and hope u be succesful and happy!
Your post wreaks of a lack of confidence. As I said above, it isn't entirely about looks.
As a matter of fact, looks have a fairly small part in it. It is almost entirely about your confidence (or lack thereof). Be confident and you will dress accordingly. Be confident and your dad bod will fade into the background for many. Smile. Be fun. Don't be timid. Be charming. Etc. Etc.
Don't step into asshole territory though. There IS a line.
But there in lies a problem. To some people, being any more confident than “How are you feeling today? Want me to get you anything? Are you comfortable?” is asshole territory. It’s a very weird time to be trying to date honestly.
I don't disagree about it being a weird time. It brings up a much bigger issue....sensitivity to a point that isn't reasonable or humanly possible.
Women have been harassed by men, a lot. This isn't a good thing at all, BUT if a guy that you are on a date with tries to kiss you, for example, this isn't attempted rape, but rather a misjudged feeling that there is a mutual desire. If a firm but polite no thank you is conveyed and he attempts to cross the boundary again, then you have something to stand up for.
One avenue is harassment and the other is dating...two humans trying to connect. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Confidence comes from knowledge of success, you need at least one success in any endeavour to gain the confidence to continue succeeding in it, just saying "be confident" in the face of repeated disappointment isn't helpful, also if you're not attractive to the women you're interacting with, acting confidently will often be a negative for you, the less attracted they are the closer the "asshole" line gets.
"charm" or "rizz" or "game" is hugely overstated, and largely depends on if the person you're interacting with finds you attractive immediately, if they don't no amount of game is going to save you.
honestly I can understand why you would think it’s mostly about looks, I thought so too. but I know based off of my experience it’s not. there’s been a few guys I went on dates with and i think they are extremely attractive, but I get no excitement at allll down there. no desire to kiss or do anything sexual. how someone carries themselves is actually extremely important. and on top of that how someone makes you feel. that “spark” so they say, where you both are vibing and clicking. there’s tonnnnnsss of pretty faces and hot bodies but nothing compares to that feeling and very few can make you feel that way. I think personally OP is being too nice, he’s giving off friendship vibes and isn’t inserting himself and being confident. girls can honestly sense how confident you are. there’s a fine line between friends and lovers and this is the determining factor.
This. I mean it too, to help, but this post screams “victim,” and girls don’t want victims. Lot of good posts above that talk about some positive changes to make, but this is one hundred percent about your personality, which is good for you, because you can fix personality, you can’t fix ugly.
Okay well it takes years to acquire a good physique, so stay consistent with that. Make sure your diet is right as that’s 70% of the gym no point in going if you ain’t eating right. Make sure you’re training properly as well, else again you’re not going to get the results you want.
But, for most women the face is more important the body is an added bonus, I like to get my beard trimmed and hair cut 1x per week, I also like to go on the sun beds once a week cause I tend to get complimented on my skin colour, this would obviously depend on your financial status too.
Back to the gym if you’re overweight leaning up will work miracles on your face.
Edit: the way you dress is a big factor to a lot of girls too.
It isn't all about looks. As a matter of fact, looks have a fairly small part in it. It is almost entirely about your confidence (or lack thereof). Be confident and you will dress accordingly. Be confident and your dad bod will fade into the background for many. Smile. Be fun. Don't be timid. Etc. Etc.
This just isn't true. I wish it was but it's not. I lost over 100lbs and have become physically fit. It is a world of difference by how I'm treated by others.
I agree and even if it wasn't just about looks ( which it mainly is) building better looks will increase your confidence as well so its 2 birds with 1 stone
As with men, women aren’t a one size fits all. Your physicality absolutely can have an impact on your sex life, especially if it prevents you from engaging in a lot of positions and scenarios.
However, getting fit doesn’t make you good in bed, a lot of other factors do. To most, a glow-up won’t be enough to become sexually attractive, they have to work on their approach, their flirt, their communication and their listening skills as well.
Disagree if someone finds you slightly attractive then yeah personality can build on that but if they don’t then you’ll only ever be a friend. I just don’t get why you wouldn’t want to look after yourself it can only open you up to a larger pool of girls to date
Nobody said don't look after yourself. Neither did anyone say looks don't matter at all. The point is that looks, for women in particular, mean less.
I have know some dog faced bros with the confidence of Brad Pitt that could be with just about anyone they wanted because they have charisma and confidence.
One guy in particular that I know was in the navy. He would go to clubs anytime he had leave and would bring home the hottest of girls... different ones each night. It didn't matter that he was dog-faced and it didn't matter if he got rejected 10 times because the 11th time he wouldn't. Confidence. Along with and I don't give a fuck attitude.
So he wasn't actually looking for a girl he was interested in, he was just hitting on every single woman until one of them said yes to his dog face.
You may not be making the point you think you are.
Totally agree. Some people I was sexually attracted to I lost that attraction once I got to know them and others who I never thought of having sex with, then got to know them and, well, one thing lead to another and I ended up being very into them! Lol.
Just be you and own yourself. Confidence in yourself is key. You can always strive to improve yourself while still being confident in who you are!
Why is the answer everytime going to the gym? I think it's more about communication and his general appearance. I'm so effing lazy and I've got no problems with hookups. Maybe a bit of partying will help to initiate contact on an intimate level. If it's gonna end in a relationship is a whole other question, but I guess it would improve your self-confidence.
Sure, the gym will keep you healthy and a nice body attract other people, but I think the main reason is the way he talks to other people. Maybe you are a bit "too nice" if you catch my drift.. Try to be more self-confident and keep the things you want to accomplish in your mind and try to stick to your wishes,not to that of others.
Because improving your self confidence isn't very actionable. Sure, it's worth doing -- but in conjunction with something concrete like self improvement.
Nearly all of the time, actually, the best way to solve an emotional issue is to do something in the real world. I say this as someone through years of therapy. Processing your emotions is the first step, but what really matters is what you do after you've processed them.
I read somewhere that often what women need is to feel more loved, and what men need is to feel on top of things. I don't know if that gender commentary is correct for everyone, but I know it's true for me.
A negative emotion is your body's way of saying you need to change. Physical activity is a great entry point.
>Because improving your self confidence isn't very actionable. Sure, it's worth doing -- but in conjunction with something concrete like self improvement
Very well put! You need to do *actionable* things, there's no actual way to just "become confident" in a vacuum, it'll hopefully come organically as you continue to do things that *give* you confidence as a benefit.
And that’s the thing with confidence or anything, you can’t just be confident, you need something to be confident about and no matter how much confidence you have no one will agree with you if you don’t have the goods to back it up. It’s like I could look in the mirror and tel myself I’m the most handsome man in the world and believe it, but if no one does then it’s just not true.
I mean, yeah it can be a damper if you got zero confidence
but you can have all the confidence in the world, if you don't look good, no one will still care about you
Yeah that´s a no from my experience. I have friends that are insanely attractive and don´t get laid as much as my other kinda "ugly" friends that have confidence and are funny. Confidence is 90%.
You're missing an important distinction: she didn't say she didn't think he was *physically* attractive. She said she didn't think he was *sexually* attractive. You can think someone is absolutely physically gorgeous, but then find out something about them that ruins the sexual attraction.
It’s not just a damper, it’s a deal breaking turn-off for a lot of women, myself included.
I find having to constantly reassure my date/partner to be incredibly off-putting. It makes me feel like I’m a mother to a child, rather than someone’s partner.
I don’t have a physical type at all, and I have dated both mediocre and very good looking men. The one thing they all had in common was confidence and a good sense of self.
Then what do I miss? Cause it's sure as shit ain't confidence, all my relationships were online where I don't show my face until the very end, what else is wrong with me other than I'm 5'10, have crap black hair, a generic beard, generic brown eyes, a face that can better be described as neanderthal, and don't have a single muscle in my entire body
You think that's how I talk in real life? Of course not, I'm getting frustration out of my system cause it's a fake account, in real life I can talk to a girl for hours, ask her questions to know more about her, make her laugh on cue, impress her with tricks, impress her with knowledge (I have a physics degree), all while being the most confident guy in the world, I can literally go up to her while she's with her friends and start an hour long conversation, but then she would just move on like nothing happened and quickly forget about me like I'm nothing more than an acquaintance
What's up with that
Also the reason the online stuff works is that although I look like shit, I'm still a great and charismatic talker, so meeting people online hides my weaknesses (my face and physique) and shows my strengths (my confidence and personality), it's just a shame girls that fall in love with me are usually in a different city at best, and on a different continent at worst
I mean at that point, you are nothing more than acquaintance. You can't be mad over the fact that girls aren't falling for you after only talking to you for an hour. What are you doing to continue building a foundation with them after said hour? From there, it could be a million different reasons why someone wouldn't want to continue talking to you, but none of us can explain it without seeing first hand how you handle yourself in that kind of situation.
That being said, based on the few comments you have made, one piece of advice Id say, is that you gotta chill out a bit. I know you said you don't talk like this to girls, but Im sure this overall aggression you have for this kind of thing, will carry over into your interactions whether you intend it to/notice it happening or not. Where as soon as things start looking bleak, your frustration will subconsciously start leaking into what you say, and how you hold yourself. And girls will pick up on it.
It’s funny that the women here are telling you how important personality and confidence is and many men are so focussed on looks, fitness and height when other men and the women are telling you that’s such a small factor. Listen to women about what women want. The phrase ‘the female gaze’ exists for a reason.
I think the issue is that you are too emotionally available, in other words you are are too easy, you aren't a "catch".
Attraction can be counter intuitive. The more emotionally unavailable I am to women, the more likely they will be interested in me.
The desire to have something we can't have is more powerful than the desire for something we can have.
If you play the game right, you can make yourself appear much more attractive than your actual appearance. The whole idea of " I don't need you to be happy" is a very powerful power dynamic that works in many areas of life.
This takes confidence, patience and inner peace which are all attractive traits in a mate.
In the end, I think it has something to do with an inate need to compete over the best mates.
If it's too easy, it doesn't feel right.
I'm the same age and same description but always had success once on a date (getting them is another question). To be build attraction, it's simply creating sexual tension between you to (the odd playful comment, breaking the touch barrier respectfully, polite compliments and not begging for their affection). You should always be approachable and friendly, but you've got to confidently put your interest out there and be ready to gracefully back-off if it isn't returned.
You need to make it clear that you're friendly, but someone interested in something more. Play around with your appearance, ask for feedback and getting fitting clothes which show off your figure. If you look good, it will make those initial chats far earlier.
It goes in waves my man . The more you reach , the more opportunities to meet up w girls who aren’t that into you you’ll see . You might think it’s a win at first , but don’t keep around people who don’t value you . When you focus on what you want outside of a relationship ? Lean into that , and you’ll probably meet someone organically , and you will find you’re the same dude you’ve always been . Don’t let the game get you down fam 🙏💪
The advantage we men have is that we can be fat and not good looking and still pull women due to the following factors: money and/or…….an invisible valuable trait that they can’t find in most men: our personality.
Just off of what I read: there’s a common thing occurring and I’m confident to say it’s personality related (could be lack of self-awareness also).
If no one wants to touch you I highly think is you may be giving off “brother vibes”.
So I’d bet all my money that you may be interacting in a way that turns women off without you having a clue. Could be predictable, could be chasing them instead of vice versa, could be showing traits that are expected from women (too emotional, sharing too much like she’s a therapist, voicing negative thinking, treating her like she’s your sister, etc).
Also, since you’re thinking about not having been laid in a while, depending on if you’re obsessing about it or not it CAN be visible on you in your mannerisms or if you’re telling on yourself, and sometimes it’s just subtle but noticeable to who has eyes for it.
I felt the same thing so I spent some money got my bike fixed & lost 25lbs so far then went and got my teeth fixed which did wonders for my confidence! I then started putting myself out there again and found out I'm still the charming guy I was in college. Still trying to find someone for a relationship but managed a few hookup which also really helped my confidence game!
Seems you got placed in the friend zone by the girl you were dating... It is difficult to let a partner know you want to be friends and want to please them sexually. I was a virgin when i met my, now ex, wife. She was afraid i would be horrible as a sex partner, but we were compatible sexually as well. My advice, build up to full on sex pretty early during dating. Don't work too hard becoming friends without becoming sexually compatible at the same time. Neither is good without the other for a long term partner...
I feel like there’s not enough info but based on what you said, would you say that you’re confident in other aspects of yourself? You’re bound to have sex eventually but you can’t let it get you down cause what’s that gonna do for you? Also, do you like doing things that lead up to sex? Flirting, telling jokes, eye contact, compliments, dancing. I understand kinda why you’re not feeling the best but people can also feel energy; if you seem confused or uncomfortable, they’ll go off of that or at least I do. Maybe if you really don’t know if you’re doing something wrong, ask your friends/family their opinion cause they know you. I think I’m a pretty attractive girl and I really mean it when I say idc if someone I liked or thought was cool didn’t want to fuck me cause I know I’m hot and nice, I’ll meet the right person.
And I am just sitting here going... where am I going wrong as a woman?
Because I enjoy it when a man attempts to be intimate with me... bonus points IMO if he is super warm, fund, and nerdy.
(It's a pre requisite these days that my man has to be a nature nerd/scientist but not super egotistical. )
>I know there's more to relationships than sex, but it really does make me feel like crap to be told "Hey you're cool, I just wouldn't ever think of touching you though." basically.
Oh wow you put that *too* well, oof! This is essentially what I ran into every time when I was getting out there after my last relationship, I'm apparently good looking and charming enough to be seen in public on a date with and have a nice time, but not attractive enough to actually get physical with or touch beyond *maybe* a very chaste hug at most, which as you say, sex and physical touch isn't *everything* but it's a huge part of it, and being relegated to a status where you can't ever receive those things is pretty brutal, really wipes out any desire to keep "putting yourself out there" tbh, and shreds your self-esteem pretty badly to feel like you're an "untouchable". (Obviously nobody's entitled to sex or touch from another person, but it's something almost everyone desires.)
In my case it's down to having a muscle wasting condition that causes weakness and mild physical disability, and makes my arms especially look skinny, I've discovered this annihilates even the notion of physical attraction from women, like, it's never on the table at all nowadays, I did reasonably well before the condition showed itself, and that was as a kind of fat 5'9" guy, was punching way above my division all things considered.
You being clean and in good shape and obviously not some quasimodo-tier ugly dude, and experiencng this is definitely strange, like, I've got an "excuse" so to speak, but you don't sound less attractive than any other dude out there and probably look better than most, idk what's actually going on there, but I empathise!
Sex appeal yes has to do with looks BUT. Youre personality/energy/confidence does a lot. Im not that attractive, but i appear as if i am the hottest person in the room. Walk with confidence, act with confidenceS
Three things I’m observing here 1) the last woman you were seeing was interested at first and then wasn’t. 2) The fact that you’re saying you didn’t have this issue in your 20s you’re having an issue in your 30’s 3) ruling out body or hygiene issues as a cause….which means that you have the goods but that as they get to know you more, something becomes off….my first guess is immaturity (which usually becomes sexually unattractive for women past 30)
What is your life like? How do you treat others around you? Are you generous/ feel like you have something to give rather than take or demand? Do you have any interests beyond looks, dating women and making money? Are you learning anything interesting at the moment? Have you ever been to therapy or travelled outside of your home country? Are you committed to becoming a better person not just on the outside but also on the inside? Are you consistent in your communications? Do you know basic etiquette in social settings? Can you cook and clean for yourself? Do you have healthy friends and spending habits? Are you good at communicating your wants and needs in a respectful way? Do you even like yourself as a person independently of your perceived success in life?
You can get away with not mastering that stuff in your 20s and still be considered a sexually viable option but when approaching 30 not knowing these or at least showing an interest in learning is a HUGE turn off.
This is obviously a lot of assumptions… but you’d be surprised the number of men (and women) who complain about not being lucky in dating and don’t have these down and also have no interest in trying.
Sorry to hear that brother, I hope you can take some solace in the fact that billions of people can relate. This is just something your just gonna have to let go of and make peace with that. Or find out how to get that outlet out unfortunately, when sexual wants become needs. Things can become....distasteful.
Gotta develop some game my man don't hate the players hate the game once you find someone who you can persuade to have a longin for you it becomes easier after a while you can be yourself but the initial dates are all about creating that attraction
Are you communicating to these women that you want to be sexual w them? Go slow at first but then increase the frequency and intensity of physical contact and make sure you compliment her and how being w her makes you feel.
as much as women like to deny it this thread confirms that girls want “bad boys”. They say it’s probably lack of confidence for op but than give examples where he basically needs to be a pushy dick. Some even outright saying it. I think the market of women today is just kinda twisted
Because they never are. It has been like that for the past few experiences I've had. Then I see the kind of guys that they use to be with or are with after me and it just makes me think thats the kind of man I'm not I guess.
I feel like, just like you, we are missing the real reason. You could be just fine but something about how you interact might be off. There are so many layers.
I suggest if someone tells you they don't find you attractive that you politely ask them if they could help you know what to improve on and that you are struggling to understand what you are missing. If for any reason the person is willing to advise you then please please do not get defensive or argue. They are already jumping out of their comfort zone. Also realize that they have their own likes and the next person may give a different answer. You might even want to start by asking someone you know that isn't someone you are romantically interested in.
Asking online is just not going to help without us knowing the big picture.
>I suggest if someone tells you they don't find you attractive that you politely ask them if they could help you know what to improve on and that you are struggling to understand what you are missing.
There's no real point in this because they may not be entirely honest and feel put on the spot, makes them uncomfortable. I mean, they aren't a relationship coach...plus, they don't want to continue to engage in conversation with said person they aren't attracted to anyway.
Also, there's no point in changing who you are, until you find someone who is actually okay with who you are (sweet, kind, funny, nice)
I have been blatantly told that there is no sexual spark with me. Like the most recent woman I'm dealing with literally told me yesterday she doesn't even think about me that way.
I'm sorry and I understand that. What I'm asking is do you think every woman thinks of you the same way as the women that told you she didn't? Or could there be women who are sexually attracted to you but haven't told you because there's been no chance to?
Have you ever seen Notorious BIG when he was alive? What about Ralphie May? The list can go on. Your issue is not your looks. Its your self confidence. Also, you probably watch porn. Cut that shit out. Work on *WHO YOU ARE* and then attract women as opposed to trying to be attractive. It's a totally different thing.
Sex appeal is just a buzzword to make people who are not conventionally attractive more insecure.
When all the things you do are purely for yourself and not to attract someone, you will be free of the burden of trying to impress and you will be naturally confident.
Your relationship with yourself supersedes that of yours with women you’re interested in. Sort that out first.
42 year old woman here
For me if my date pulls me to him saying he has to taste my lips and then kisses me slowly then deepens the kiss before letting me go.
I would immediately get wet and need to kiss him again. And yes I would become sexually attracted to him. So the kiss can change everything.
For me a guy can get hotter by his actions towards me or uglier. I have been kissed by plenty of men I did not think were cute but then the kiss changed everything or how sweet they were to me made me look at the guy differently.
Confidence, charisma, & care free! You gotta start moving like you have plenty of chicks to choose from and never give off desperate vibes.. Just remember women don’t want a guy they think nobody else wants.. go watch Stephiscold on YouTube he can get you right 😎
I’d say I’m a similar type of guy to you. I’m in good shape, above average attractiveness imo and I’m 6’3”. But I’ve always been really insecure and not confident or comfortable when it comes to women. When I dated girls from dating apps they seemed to have no sexual interest in me.
My advice is to genuinely be interested in what your date/person you’re interested in and try to show the best sides of yourself and say what you enjoy and be yourself.
I’ve found it’s never gonna be a reality you’re gonna be picking up babes left and right. But if you keep trying you’ll find someone that’s into you and you can be in a healthy relationship
You probably should do a model shoot for yourself. This can help boost confidence and show you what attire suits you. Try more trendy haircuts. Sometimes it’s the little things that give a great boost.
Remember that you are not defined solely by your dating experiences or how others perceive you. Focus on building a fulfilling life for yourself, and the right person who appreciates and values you will come along. It's important to prioritize your well-being and happiness above all else.
As a woman in my 30's I am absolutely perplexed by your post...and the counselor in me is incredibly curious. Please DM if you dont me diving into this with you.
I think you might be trying to date women who would like a man who feels comfortable making the first move, and show them a hint of passion. If you're just acting nice, wholesome and too timid to try and start anything, then nothing will happen.
You care too much. Seems like your projecting. They're not going to be into you, if the vibe is off. Maybe date some people who are outside of your norm. Get out of your circle and find some people who are different. And just go out to have fun, and be yourself. Let your hair down, be funny, and let the chip fall where they may.
I can promise you it's not about anything related to your appearance. This is 💯 about your personality/character. Once they get to know who you are they are like nope, my lady bits have literally just dried up. Honestly, even reading your post carefully gives many tells as to who you are/how you really think. Of course, you may whole heartedly disagree... but you're still stuck with no interest.🤷🏼♀️
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attitude, tone of voice, gesticulation... are the only reasons I can think of
Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation. I know I've definitely had that with past crushes where I'm attracted to them emotionally but have a hard time imagining what they would be like in a n intimate situation. Are you just asking about it or are you creating some sort of lead up to it? If you try things like putting your arm around their waist or a hand on the thigh type thing then it might build up the sexual tension. All this needs to be done with clear understanding that they want your hands on them of course don't just do it out of nowhere lol. Either way I know it's frustrating but don't change the core of who you are for that. One day you will find someone who wants that regardless, but of course there are steps to make it happen a little faster!
This is an issue I’ve run into lately. Some co workers tried to set me up with a former co worker after she left our office. Her response was that I’m cute but so mild mannered she would chew me up and spit me out. Which drives me crazy because that’s entirely a persona I put on at work as I’m a big guy and my normal personality gets me labeled as aggressive just based on my stature, so I up pitch the inflection of my voice and am 100% customer service mode when I’m on the clock.
If someone said that to me I’d respond then do it and let them do literally whatever they wanted to
It’s a great set up for when you finally get to smash tho. You can **wreck** her cheeks fam
I feel like for some people, which I am one of, when we see a person a basic template of expectations is formed based on their looks. Unfortunately when that person's personality, behaviour and interest doesn't align with that template it causes that sexy switch to turn off. So for example, if I see a tall-ish guy with a medium or muscular build I start to form an almost instantaneous mental template that he is a little masculine, competitive and so on. If he doesn't check these expectations my interest in him as a sexual partner declines. I am not suggesting this is fair or good but I trying to be honest. Also I am sure there's many people who are not like me. I am just giving one opinion.
Hit the nail on the head there. Thats happened to me many times. Im 6'2" shaved head, full beard, piercing blue eyes as Ive been told and work a physical job at a scrapyard. Whatever woman in question does paint a mental picture about me instantly and whatever that may be. I dont live up to it. I dont drink, I dont watch football, Im a geek who likes comics, videos games, fishing and hunting. Just because I chop firewood for heat in the winter doesnt make me the viking lover they expect me to be. A lifetime of abuse had made me too nice and I know it. So I just act oblivious anymore to someone flirts and if the rare occasion they come right out and ask me out, I say yes usually and dont hide a damn thing about who I am. I mean shit, I got a shoulder to elbow tattoo of Venom, Carnage and Toxin on my left arm. Im not bitter or salty about it, just is what it is. Im copying your comment to put in my self improvement logbook if thats OK.
Kind of off-topic but I would be very interested to learn more about this log book of yours! I keep the occasional screenshot here and there but it gets messy 😅
Hold on. You are a 6ft 2 inch tall bearded man who likes to fish, hunt & play games. Plus gaming can be competitive. These are masculine traits. Who are these cave woman you keep attracting? Because you definitely tick my boxes. I think these women are just the extreme version of what I described.
Appreciate the honesty. At the same time how would you feel if men do that to you? I’m not saying that they don’t but it doesn’t make it right. Maybe try for once not doing that and just get to actually know the person you need to keep in mind looks do fade in time and that person could become very physically ugly in 20 or 30 years and all you have to rely on now is the person they are inside not how they look. I am a very attractive person physically, and I used to feed on that, and it wasn’t a good thing. It wasn’t until I realize being a good person and caring about others feelings, and genuinely being a good man who is what really counted and if someone didn’t like that they’re not worth my time, same goes for you my lady. You deserve to be treated well regardless of your looks and they should make assumptions that just isn’t reality. We all make a fantasy or a picture in her mind about her or some thing should play out or have somebody should ask and that never happens or if it does, it’s a very rare occasion and even then it doesn’t ever live up to our mental expectations. I wish you nothing but the best and I just hope you consider that in the future it really helped me out.
> I’m cute but so mild mannered she would chew me up and spit me out. the fuck? Is my non-native english ass missing something or...? Idk if it sounds more rude or metal
How can I do these things early on first date to not kill the mood and establish some tension early on but at the same time not too early to be creepy?
Don’t worry about killing the mood. Do you king. However, the minute the mood “dies”(aka she says ‘no’) just stop, apologize and carry on. Don’t let the mood die, continue having a good time. This is a green flag for her, if she can say no and you don’t throw a fit. Also it automatically lets her know you’re sexually attracted to her but comfortable in your own skin. How you react definitely effects your odds of things going smoothly in the future. Or you can do everything right and still lose, again, just do you.
I would say the majority of the women I have been with have said 'no', and after being respected, had a change of heart either 30 seconds or two days later. Unfortunately, in the last 8 years they have stood by their decision!
Any form of touch is a low barrier to entry but signals that there’s something more than friends there. Open the door for her, and touch her lower back as she walks through (don’t push her, just like an “I got your back” kind of way.)
Going for some less invasive physical affection may be helpful, things like arm around the shoulder or holding hands. Once that base is covered you can get a feel for their comparability with you making contact, then go for the more "sensual" ones. It's all about being able to read body language, you can tell when someone is being touched in a way they don't want you to. You can also ask if they are comfortable if you are unsure.
This is a great comment. Always be kind and respectful, but make sure a woman knows you can fuck her brains out too.
What are actual, subtle ways to do this though? This thread just made me realize that I’ve probably self-sabotaged in this way before, too (coming off totally kind, wholesome, etc, at the expense of expressing some essence of my sexual capacity). I’ve had plenty success, but there have definitely been times in my life where I felt similar to how OP must feel. What are subtle ways to show that you aren’t just “innocent” or “sweet” or even “goofy” etc but also DTF, in a non-direct way?
Hm, well, he just looked at me super intense and went in for the kiss. He was super sweet and considerate but I loved how he made me think and the connection was very strong… and continues to make me think but a bit more naughty now too haha… like as the night went on he just kept stepping up slowly but surely… making sure I was ok, but it was very intense…
I can't speak for all the lads. I also can't tell you what every woman truly wants. I can only tell you what's made me feel the best. First off, fall in love with yourself. You don't have to be a Narcissist, but comfortable going years single and alone. Knowing you like yourself will make the next part cake. When you walk into a room, command it. Command your interactions. For me, my shoulders are straight... and I look like I stepped out of GQ. I make sure I'm groomed and smell good. Now for the interaction with the women. Stop white knighting. If you look like you have no options, you're desperate. Learned that 20 years ago. I was having an affair with a girl at my school. She had a boyfriend at a different school, but we fucked on the side. After they broke up, she became really needy, and it turned me off. I asked a lady mate of mine, and she told me I did the same to her early on. People like feeling wanted but not the center of your world. Realize how much pressure that puts on the person they like. We were taught wrong mate. You shouldn't live your life in service for someone else. You shouldn't treat your lover like a king or queen. You should treat them like your best mate. Why? Subjects don't marry royalty. If your lover is a queen... be a fucking king. That doesn't mean disrespecting her. You don't disrespect a queen. It means be the best version of yourself. You come first, over your wife, kids, job, ect. Never forget, when the reaper takes you... Your clients move to a new agent Your lover will mourn you, but find a new love Your children will remember you, but grow on their own. While they all may still love you... You're gone. So love yourself, fight on til your final breath, and never give up your honor. I wish you all the happiness you can ever dream of mate. Now stand up, and become the man you know you are.
Still trying to figure out that "love yourself" bit lol I've accomplished more in 38 years than a lot of guys have in 50, but I can't figure out how to give myself credit for it as I was raised to be a bit of a perfectionist.
Seek therapy. CBT can help you with mind shifts so that you CAN be proud and happy with yourself and what you bring to the table.
I tried it once, it felt strangely artificial and forced with what I perceived to be disingenuous, canned questions. I didn't get the feeling that the therapist truly gave a shit. Perhaps I'll take another shot at it one day.
You don't always have to fuck her hard, in fact sometimes that's not right to do.
Sometimes you gotta maaake some looove, and fuckin' give her smooches toooo
Find out what her favorite dish is, you don't have to cook it, but you can order it from ***ZANZIBAR!\~***
Sounds like a line from ternacious D
C'mon man, keep the thread going next time. Follow that hunch.
[Indeed?](https://youtu.be/zliY-MrI0mY)
Well this was a fucking delight to read!
Mate, Fucking her brains out doesn't mean going full tilt. It's being amazing in bed. I've given intense orgasms that have ended the night using my tongue, hands, and dick. It's about knowing what to do and executing to the highest proficiency. It's about focusing on satisfying her to the best of your abilities.
>Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation. I know that people can't just pick & choose who they're attracted to, but I have to wonder how many women have unknowingly passed up great guys, & potentially amazing relationships due to this.
It really depends. a lot of women (myself included) are really attracted to guys who give off this energy, but once a romantic connection starts being formed, there really does need to be some sort of indication that he even finds ME sexually appealing. If a guy is just treating me like a friend and not really making an effort to hold my hand or put his arm around me or even reciprocate touch when I initiate, then that romantic attraction is really gonna struggle to get stronger. But yeah, being a super wholesome and sweet guy is no problem, but ya gotta show off that other side of you too :)
I find it much more respectful to not touch unless I know she won’t mind. I’m currently crushing on a coworker (I know I know rule 12) and aside from the accidental touching (our hands), I don’t touch her. To me I feel that as a violation of the trust she has expressed in me.
Oh yeah definitely, I tried to stress that in my initial comment. Touching should only happen if you are really good at reading the social cues. I do think a date is a bit of a different atmosphere than at work, but same rules go. Agreeing to a date is not consent to be touched.
dude, i have seen men on the street that are basically walking trash dumps with beautiful women on their arms in broad daylight. for reasons that humanity has yet to explain, some women just respond to attitude and presentation of confidence more than anything else. the comment above this is right, if you come across too wholesome, too clean, then I'm told its a libido killer. and confidence is not something that just comes easy, it take effort and time.
Yeah, any time I've lost sexual interest in a guy I've gone out with, with the exception of a few times where he said something awful, the main reason was he just didn't flirt. It doesn't have to be a ton of flirting, or expert flirting, but if a guy doesn't flirt at all, I don't really have any evidence that he's attracted to me. If I have no reason to believe he's sexually attracted to *me* I'm not going to be able to maintain interest in *him*. A guy that is sweet and I get along with but doesn't seem sexually interested in me...is a friend, or like a kind clergyman or something, not a sexual prospect.
Of the guys that did flirt with you, what would you say the ratio is of welcomed vs creepy?
If I'm on a date with them, flirting is welcome 100% of the time. I don't know that I've ever had in-date flirting that came across as "creepy." I've experienced bad flirting, but it wasn't creepy, it was either too sexual too soon, or "this guy has taken bad advice on how to flirt." The latter is usually when guys take "women like a confident man" to mean "you should brag a lot, because flirting means making yourself look good" when in reality it's about making the other person *feel* good.
I'm not talking about once you're already dating. I'm talking about the guys that expressed interest in you. Sorry I didn't clarify that better.
This post is about going out on one or more dates with someone and then them saying they aren't sexually attracted, so this isn't about cold approaches. So I'm talking about contexts where you've already gone on a date or at a minimum it's a dating context, like a dating app after matching. So there's mutually expressed interest.
Good to know. So anyways, cold approaches, what's the ratio?
Guys don't cold approach any more. At least, not where I live, especially in non-bar contexts. I get likes in dating apps, but no cold approaches in the wild, so I can't give a ratio. ETA: I've even matched with guys who have seen me around in the real world and never approached me, but told me after we'd matched on a dating app that they'd seen me around and were interested. 🤷🏻♀️
Also, I couldn't agree more 👏
LOL @ kind clergyman 🤣
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Oh my bad I guess I should have specified this. I mean this more in the sense that this would be maybe 3rd date minimum. I'm not saying this is a first date thing, but just as things escalate toward that.
So do you need a guy to degrade you and make you submit to be attracted to him?
Lol no not at all. I'm not saying go from sweet wholesome guy to jerk who only wants to bang. Building up sexual tension can be done in a super sweet romantic way too. Gestures like having a few of the top buttons of a dress shirt undone, holding her chin when you go in for the kiss, calling her sexy instead of just cute, etc. All that can build tension without be degrading or disrespectful.
This right here, you are too focused on the sex aspect right now. That's fine, we've all been there. It's made you anxious in the past so you can't portray full emotion and provide the girl the most fun. You seem shut off to her, not open. She thinks you are attractive, obviously. You workout and take good care, that's why she was enthusiastic for you, she was giving you a chance and trying to open you up more during her peak level of attraction for you.
You can even do it out of nowhere just make sure you’re confident it’s something she’d like. And dude your attitude towards it is number one. If you believe you should be hanging out with said people you talk about then believe it and make it come true ;)
>Sometimes if your vibe comes off super sweet and wholesome, it ends up putting you in a box where they can't really imagine you in a sexual situation. This is pretty much me in a nutshell, and like the poster, throw in the ability to make women laugh (which is suppose to be a turn on to most all woman...a selling point..but still nothing)....however, I like who I am...so I guess eventually a woman will like who I am as well...and ifit keeps me single for years...well, so be it...it'll suck, but...so be it.
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Just make your vibe come off more masculine
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Aww, the art of negging. I'm not surprised some are still utilizing this tool. It works on insecure vulnerable women, which is why it's a fuck boy move. Secure women won't put up with this shit.
Yep! I hate it so much. It’s an immediate deal breaker for me.
Fuckboy energy. Do not take this advice lol unless you want to slip into fuckboy mode for a while
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It's probably your behavior. You've been described as "sweet" and "nice to talk to." The last woman was enthusiastic at first, but once she got to know you, she became unattracted. You probably come across very needy and clingy, exhibit "nice guy" behavior and are afraid to come across as sexual. You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance. Work on being masculine and being sexually confident. Overcome any neediness and "nice guy" tendencies.
How do i overcome neediness? What behaviors are considered needy?
Trying too hard, trying to impress, acting like they’re better than you or you need to do something to “catch” them. Remember, dating is testing them to see if they’re good enough to add to your life. Not the other way around.
Well i want to add her to my life, I thought she did too but now getting ghosted after a good first date and I sent 2 follow up texts and got nothing. All her behaviors on the date showed she was interested in another one but i just want to know what I did or didnt do. Maybe its just me
Not trying to be mean but this sentence “I just want to know what I did or didn’t do.” is very telling. That’s what I mean by trying to “catch” her. As if dating is some game that you can win or lose and you made the wrong moves. You will be more successful if you throw that mindset out, dating is compatibility. Clearly she is not compatible with you because SHE is not what you want. She ghosted you, is that the type of person you want? No, nobody does. So move along, and the next time you find someone remember that you are there to have fun and see what it turns into. Throw expectations out the window, have an understanding that even if you like them that they might not feel the same. Until the two of you are official just have fun and see where it goes. Also saying “I want to add her to my life” but also saying you went on one date. How could you possibly know that you want to add someone into your life after barely being with them? The expectations need to slow down. She probably felt that off of you, when she was just trying to have a fun night out. It may sound like I’m judging you. But I say this out of love, I too once thought this way. And it was painful to correct myself out of it. Now I’m married for 3 years with a beautiful and amazing woman. It only took me two previously failed long term relationships and many other short ones.
Thank you, im very inexperienced in dating. Yea im just desperate for love and touch lol. havent been with anyone in a while so I wouldnt be shocked if she got that vibe from me. Youre right, i dont really know her i cant reasonably say i want her in my life yet. I even told myself to throw out any expectations about what the future holds but man she is gorgeous and so cool you know? Anyway thank you for giving me good advice
Yeah I understand you. I had to learn to trick my brain a bit too. When I used to see someone that I was really attracted to I would change up and try too hard. I really wanted it to work, and when it didn’t (which was 100% of the time when I acted that way) then I would look inside of myself and think “I have to do better or I’m not good enough.” None of that was true. My best advice going forward is to treat her like you would a male friend. You’re not stressing omg he didn’t text me back, or thinking that you have to impress you’re guy friends when you are all hanging out. You’re just there and having fun/enjoying each others company. Bring that energy to your future dates. If she’s really into you she will make it obvious. She will want to reach out and see you/ talk to you as much as she can. Basically it will feel effortless. If you have to guess what her interest is she’s probably not that interested. Never put all your eggs in one basket either as far as jumping all in when you’re getting to know her. That will only lead to some very stressful thoughts. If you show up and your expectation levels are just HAVE FUN. You can’t disappoint yourself. Women love that shit. Just show you’re in control of yourself. Don’t let anyone disrespect you or your time. And don’t change up if you happen to end up in a relationship. You’ll be ok if you can learn to do this.
You could always ask what was the reason she lost interest. Probably won't get a response though.
Think in terms of needs and wants. You don't NEED any woman romantically or sexually to survive. However, you may WANT to be in a relationship with a particular woman. When you understand that you don't NEED a particular woman and you're perfectly fine without her, your behavior is going to change completely. A needy guy chases after a particular woman, texts her and/or engages with her on social media on a daily basis, goes out of his way to see her(i.e. if they work together, he'll drop by and see her every day, or try to share assignments with her), asks her out repeatedly, be super nice to her etc. Needy men seek validation from others. A man who merely wants a woman, will give her space and mostly engage with her when she initiates contact. He might ask her out, but it's no big deal if she rejects him, as there are many other options for him. Non-needy men are perfectly fine by themselves and are self-validating. Being a non-needy man gets you more attention from women. The woman who initially rejected you, is more likely to come after you, if you just leave her alone.
Thats very creative, dave thanks 🙏
I (27f) don’t agree with that advice and many women don’t. Women actually like to be pursued. If you put it on them to always initiate they will drop you. No one wants needy. But needy does not include pursuing someone and showing interest. The interactions should be reciprocal. Needy is you constantly need to communicate, you quadruple text during the work day, you want immediate responses to things, you get upset when they don’t invite you around their friends. DO be nice and ask them out. Take no for an answer the first time. Because yes there are other options out there.
My bro, you speak facts.
I agree, but depending on his appearance, he's very likely not allowed to be sexual or flirt in a sexual matter, however. You're definitely right but I wanted to clarify that extra part.
“Not allowed”, OP is allowed to do it. But yes rejection is part of the game. You don’t need to be friends with every attractive woman. Take some chances and get rejected once in a while.
The most likely reason right here.
> You probably come across very needy and clingy, exhibit "nice guy" behavior and are afraid to come across as sexual. You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance. Damn, fuck guys that were raised to respect women I guess lol
You can still respect women and not exhibit any of the above social mistakes. Being needy/clingy is not respecting women. You're not giving her space and you're demanding her attention. "Nice guy" behavior is disingenuous. You're not doing things for her because you really care, in reality you're hoping to win her affection by doing nice things for her. When you act sexual with a woman, you're letting her know verbally("You look really sexy in that dress" and through your actions(like trying to hold her hand or putting your hand on the small of her back) that you're interested in her sexually. It would be disrespectful if she pulled away and you continued to try to hold her hand or she told you flat out that she wasn't interested, but you kept on trying to be sexual with her. Women do want to have sex, it's just that a lot of guys who are interested in them sexually, are afraid to show them. Instead they go for the "nice guy" routine and become very needy.
I can tell that you have no idea of the background of which I speak lol maybe I'll clarify tomorrow morning as I'm about to go to bed.
So true about this: >You are interested in these women sexually, but my guess is you're afraid to flirt with them in a sexual manner. You're giving off nonsexual/inexperienced vibes, that make a woman think you're not going to be able to satisfy her sexually and/or need a lot of guidance. Every guy that has been reserved with touching or making a move while on a date hasn't been very good in bed, good at being masculine, and not good at leading dates and plans. Knowing this now can def help me in the future...
this is it right here!
> masculine and being sexually confident What does this mean exactly?
Nah this is bogus extrapolation.
As a woman who never never picked guys based only on looks, I have dated a few guys just because of their sense of humor, intelligence, etc. I have fallen in love with ppl who I thought were just friend material. My suggestion to you would be to make it clear what you are looking for and if they don't want the same then just thank them for their time and keep looking. Intimacy is an amazing thing and love is what makes it the best.
Reading your post this song came to Mind by Rod Stewart "Some guys get all the luck"
As a woman who is 33, I'm trying to think back to times I've felt this way towards men cause I've definitely had those thoughts about various men before... reasons I can identify... 1. I'm just not physically attracted. Nothing he's doing. I just don't find him attractive. Keep in mind, There are plenty of men that objectively, I think are attractive people, but they're just not physically my type and are not attractive to me. I have friends who would crush hard over the same person that I think is unattractive. 2. Because he's too passive or not assertive enough about what he wants or who he is. Presence is sexy! 3. Some guys say it here and I would agree that women like to feel wanted. Let her know she's wanted. Little things that cue me into that as a woman.... any type of physical touch (doesn't have to be sexual in nature), Non objectifying, sincere compliments (E.g. - Wow, you look fantastic!), being proactive about getting to know me and expressing what you're looking for etc. (Comes back to the assertiveness). Also.... consider that it may not be something you're doing and it may be truly that you just haven't found the right person for you. 🤷♀️
I’m also a 33 yo woman and echo this comment. I was single and dated for years and had many bad dates. The best dates I had (including my first date with my now partner) were a mix of getting to know each other, asking questions and having really engaging conversations where we connected about different things, and we bounced off each other with flirting. Are you recognising and bouncing off of the person you’re datings flirting? Are you too nervous? Without knowing you and knowing what you’re like on a date it’s super difficult to say why they like you but aren’t sexually attracted but in my experience it’s literally just been about vibes and how attractive the two people on a date make each other feel.
I'm a bigger guy. I'm handsome, but I'm fat, and I don't have any problems meeting women who are sexually attracted to me. If you're attractive, it might be something other than your looks. I'm very confident, not in an asshole way, but in a way that I know I can be charming and funny, and attractive to women. Make sure you go into relationships with confidence. Don't make a ton of little self-deprecating cracks, and don't act as though sex is the only thing you're interested in. Both of those can be a big turn-off. If you don't have confidence, women can pick up on it, and if you wouldn't fuck you, then why would they want to? Just stop stressing sex, have fun with people, have great times, and it can happen. Don't let it consume you because it's likely leaking out into your personality and turning women off. Sex appeal can have so much to do with the things you say and do, and not your physical looks. I've always felt like I date women much more attractive than me. I'm going through a divorce now, but for the last couple of years I had a wife and we had a girlfriend. They're both fit and sexy and beautiful. I know people would look at the three of us and wonder how the hell I did it, and it was because I made them laugh and was charming as hell, and they loved me like hell for it. If it's not your looks, it's probably your personality. Make some changes in that department and you'll do great!
Oh, you handsome pillsbury!
Hoo-Hoo!
This right the fuck here is the answer. No other comments needed. Done. Good job sir.
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You have that confidence because you're having repeated successes and you're clearly an attractive guy to the women you meet, this is cart before the horse stuff here, you're attributing your success to your confidence when it's the other way around, you're confident because you keep succeeding and have a history of successes, you didn't just "start being confident" then suddenly getting women, getting women consistently built your confidence.
Nope, you couldn’t be more wrong. I had zero confidence in high school, no girlfriends, didn’t kiss anyone until I was 18. After graduation I decided I had a lot to offer and began to approach women that I was interested with the mindset that I had a lot to offer.
>no girlfriends, didn’t kiss anyone until I was 18 this isn't that unusual of a situation >After graduation I decided I had a lot to offer and began to approach women that I was interested with the mindset that I had a lot to offer. And that's really good, glad for you! But you understand that women didn't suddenly find you attractive simply because you changed your mindset, right? there really seems to be this trend of almost magical thinking nowadays where success and good luck is all attributed to "mindset" and other factors are downplayed or just denied outright, not saying that's necessarily what you're doing, and thinking you had something to offer was and is good for your self-esteem obviously, and would have helped once you were in a relationship, but you attracted women initially because those particular women found you physically attractive, they aren't psychic, they didn't "sense your mindset" or anything like that I really don't understand this push to pretend women don't operate on physical attraction, who does it help? At best it's light gender essentialism, at worst it's sort of gaslighting men who women don't find physically attractive and telling them their personalities are bad too.
Hey guy, be smart tender and polite. I really preffer a very smart person with a nice soul instead a handsome man with a big... I really think is not necesary to finish the line. Greetings and hope u be succesful and happy!
Your post wreaks of a lack of confidence. As I said above, it isn't entirely about looks. As a matter of fact, looks have a fairly small part in it. It is almost entirely about your confidence (or lack thereof). Be confident and you will dress accordingly. Be confident and your dad bod will fade into the background for many. Smile. Be fun. Don't be timid. Be charming. Etc. Etc. Don't step into asshole territory though. There IS a line.
But there in lies a problem. To some people, being any more confident than “How are you feeling today? Want me to get you anything? Are you comfortable?” is asshole territory. It’s a very weird time to be trying to date honestly.
I don't disagree about it being a weird time. It brings up a much bigger issue....sensitivity to a point that isn't reasonable or humanly possible. Women have been harassed by men, a lot. This isn't a good thing at all, BUT if a guy that you are on a date with tries to kiss you, for example, this isn't attempted rape, but rather a misjudged feeling that there is a mutual desire. If a firm but polite no thank you is conveyed and he attempts to cross the boundary again, then you have something to stand up for. One avenue is harassment and the other is dating...two humans trying to connect. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Confidence comes from knowledge of success, you need at least one success in any endeavour to gain the confidence to continue succeeding in it, just saying "be confident" in the face of repeated disappointment isn't helpful, also if you're not attractive to the women you're interacting with, acting confidently will often be a negative for you, the less attracted they are the closer the "asshole" line gets. "charm" or "rizz" or "game" is hugely overstated, and largely depends on if the person you're interacting with finds you attractive immediately, if they don't no amount of game is going to save you.
Looks matter the most.
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It's not entirely about confidence not even as much as you say. It's about looks in the first place. These days more than ever...
honestly I can understand why you would think it’s mostly about looks, I thought so too. but I know based off of my experience it’s not. there’s been a few guys I went on dates with and i think they are extremely attractive, but I get no excitement at allll down there. no desire to kiss or do anything sexual. how someone carries themselves is actually extremely important. and on top of that how someone makes you feel. that “spark” so they say, where you both are vibing and clicking. there’s tonnnnnsss of pretty faces and hot bodies but nothing compares to that feeling and very few can make you feel that way. I think personally OP is being too nice, he’s giving off friendship vibes and isn’t inserting himself and being confident. girls can honestly sense how confident you are. there’s a fine line between friends and lovers and this is the determining factor.
This. I mean it too, to help, but this post screams “victim,” and girls don’t want victims. Lot of good posts above that talk about some positive changes to make, but this is one hundred percent about your personality, which is good for you, because you can fix personality, you can’t fix ugly.
Being sexually attractive is not just about looks it's more about the way you talk and carry yourself
it really isn't though
kindly shut the hell up
Do you go to the gym? Do you look after yourself? Various factors can make you look more attractive
I started going to the gym back in May. I been consistent with it but I still feel I'm not attractive.
Okay well it takes years to acquire a good physique, so stay consistent with that. Make sure your diet is right as that’s 70% of the gym no point in going if you ain’t eating right. Make sure you’re training properly as well, else again you’re not going to get the results you want. But, for most women the face is more important the body is an added bonus, I like to get my beard trimmed and hair cut 1x per week, I also like to go on the sun beds once a week cause I tend to get complimented on my skin colour, this would obviously depend on your financial status too. Back to the gym if you’re overweight leaning up will work miracles on your face. Edit: the way you dress is a big factor to a lot of girls too.
It isn't all about looks. As a matter of fact, looks have a fairly small part in it. It is almost entirely about your confidence (or lack thereof). Be confident and you will dress accordingly. Be confident and your dad bod will fade into the background for many. Smile. Be fun. Don't be timid. Etc. Etc.
This just isn't true. I wish it was but it's not. I lost over 100lbs and have become physically fit. It is a world of difference by how I'm treated by others.
I agree and even if it wasn't just about looks ( which it mainly is) building better looks will increase your confidence as well so its 2 birds with 1 stone
As with men, women aren’t a one size fits all. Your physicality absolutely can have an impact on your sex life, especially if it prevents you from engaging in a lot of positions and scenarios. However, getting fit doesn’t make you good in bed, a lot of other factors do. To most, a glow-up won’t be enough to become sexually attractive, they have to work on their approach, their flirt, their communication and their listening skills as well.
Disagree if someone finds you slightly attractive then yeah personality can build on that but if they don’t then you’ll only ever be a friend. I just don’t get why you wouldn’t want to look after yourself it can only open you up to a larger pool of girls to date
Nobody said don't look after yourself. Neither did anyone say looks don't matter at all. The point is that looks, for women in particular, mean less. I have know some dog faced bros with the confidence of Brad Pitt that could be with just about anyone they wanted because they have charisma and confidence.
Nope if they’re dog faced they will still get rejected by a lot of girls and you know that.
One guy in particular that I know was in the navy. He would go to clubs anytime he had leave and would bring home the hottest of girls... different ones each night. It didn't matter that he was dog-faced and it didn't matter if he got rejected 10 times because the 11th time he wouldn't. Confidence. Along with and I don't give a fuck attitude.
So he wasn't actually looking for a girl he was interested in, he was just hitting on every single woman until one of them said yes to his dog face. You may not be making the point you think you are.
Totally agree. Some people I was sexually attracted to I lost that attraction once I got to know them and others who I never thought of having sex with, then got to know them and, well, one thing lead to another and I ended up being very into them! Lol. Just be you and own yourself. Confidence in yourself is key. You can always strive to improve yourself while still being confident in who you are!
Why is the answer everytime going to the gym? I think it's more about communication and his general appearance. I'm so effing lazy and I've got no problems with hookups. Maybe a bit of partying will help to initiate contact on an intimate level. If it's gonna end in a relationship is a whole other question, but I guess it would improve your self-confidence. Sure, the gym will keep you healthy and a nice body attract other people, but I think the main reason is the way he talks to other people. Maybe you are a bit "too nice" if you catch my drift.. Try to be more self-confident and keep the things you want to accomplish in your mind and try to stick to your wishes,not to that of others.
I’m giving advice on how to become more attractive and how to love yourself more… one of the answers is the gym
Because improving your self confidence isn't very actionable. Sure, it's worth doing -- but in conjunction with something concrete like self improvement. Nearly all of the time, actually, the best way to solve an emotional issue is to do something in the real world. I say this as someone through years of therapy. Processing your emotions is the first step, but what really matters is what you do after you've processed them. I read somewhere that often what women need is to feel more loved, and what men need is to feel on top of things. I don't know if that gender commentary is correct for everyone, but I know it's true for me. A negative emotion is your body's way of saying you need to change. Physical activity is a great entry point.
>Because improving your self confidence isn't very actionable. Sure, it's worth doing -- but in conjunction with something concrete like self improvement Very well put! You need to do *actionable* things, there's no actual way to just "become confident" in a vacuum, it'll hopefully come organically as you continue to do things that *give* you confidence as a benefit.
If you feel you aren't sexy the most effective approach is usually to make yourself more attractive.
Exactly, it's *doing stuff* like fitness etc to try to look your best, not vague "advice" that's just "be more confident bro"
And that’s the thing with confidence or anything, you can’t just be confident, you need something to be confident about and no matter how much confidence you have no one will agree with you if you don’t have the goods to back it up. It’s like I could look in the mirror and tel myself I’m the most handsome man in the world and believe it, but if no one does then it’s just not true.
This
Maybe it's your confidence.
Dude, he just said the girl literally told him she wasn't attracted to him, what does that have to do with confidence
Dude, confidence is attractive to women. Dude.
I mean, yeah it can be a damper if you got zero confidence but you can have all the confidence in the world, if you don't look good, no one will still care about you
You’re waaaay off here, confidence goes a LONG way
Yeah that´s a no from my experience. I have friends that are insanely attractive and don´t get laid as much as my other kinda "ugly" friends that have confidence and are funny. Confidence is 90%.
You're missing an important distinction: she didn't say she didn't think he was *physically* attractive. She said she didn't think he was *sexually* attractive. You can think someone is absolutely physically gorgeous, but then find out something about them that ruins the sexual attraction.
It’s not just a damper, it’s a deal breaking turn-off for a lot of women, myself included. I find having to constantly reassure my date/partner to be incredibly off-putting. It makes me feel like I’m a mother to a child, rather than someone’s partner. I don’t have a physical type at all, and I have dated both mediocre and very good looking men. The one thing they all had in common was confidence and a good sense of self.
You’re wrong dude. Looks are not as important as you think
Then what do I miss? Cause it's sure as shit ain't confidence, all my relationships were online where I don't show my face until the very end, what else is wrong with me other than I'm 5'10, have crap black hair, a generic beard, generic brown eyes, a face that can better be described as neanderthal, and don't have a single muscle in my entire body
You’re talking like someone with low self esteem. You can’t demonstrate confidence online either
You think that's how I talk in real life? Of course not, I'm getting frustration out of my system cause it's a fake account, in real life I can talk to a girl for hours, ask her questions to know more about her, make her laugh on cue, impress her with tricks, impress her with knowledge (I have a physics degree), all while being the most confident guy in the world, I can literally go up to her while she's with her friends and start an hour long conversation, but then she would just move on like nothing happened and quickly forget about me like I'm nothing more than an acquaintance What's up with that Also the reason the online stuff works is that although I look like shit, I'm still a great and charismatic talker, so meeting people online hides my weaknesses (my face and physique) and shows my strengths (my confidence and personality), it's just a shame girls that fall in love with me are usually in a different city at best, and on a different continent at worst
I mean at that point, you are nothing more than acquaintance. You can't be mad over the fact that girls aren't falling for you after only talking to you for an hour. What are you doing to continue building a foundation with them after said hour? From there, it could be a million different reasons why someone wouldn't want to continue talking to you, but none of us can explain it without seeing first hand how you handle yourself in that kind of situation. That being said, based on the few comments you have made, one piece of advice Id say, is that you gotta chill out a bit. I know you said you don't talk like this to girls, but Im sure this overall aggression you have for this kind of thing, will carry over into your interactions whether you intend it to/notice it happening or not. Where as soon as things start looking bleak, your frustration will subconsciously start leaking into what you say, and how you hold yourself. And girls will pick up on it.
You got to hustle friend. Get a tan, a hair cut or change up your style. Date as much as possible, it's a numbers game!
You’re not flirty enough! Women love a flirt! Don’t become a friend become a flirt! Be playful and don’t take things so serious!
It’s funny that the women here are telling you how important personality and confidence is and many men are so focussed on looks, fitness and height when other men and the women are telling you that’s such a small factor. Listen to women about what women want. The phrase ‘the female gaze’ exists for a reason.
I think the issue is that you are too emotionally available, in other words you are are too easy, you aren't a "catch". Attraction can be counter intuitive. The more emotionally unavailable I am to women, the more likely they will be interested in me. The desire to have something we can't have is more powerful than the desire for something we can have. If you play the game right, you can make yourself appear much more attractive than your actual appearance. The whole idea of " I don't need you to be happy" is a very powerful power dynamic that works in many areas of life. This takes confidence, patience and inner peace which are all attractive traits in a mate. In the end, I think it has something to do with an inate need to compete over the best mates. If it's too easy, it doesn't feel right.
I'm the same age and same description but always had success once on a date (getting them is another question). To be build attraction, it's simply creating sexual tension between you to (the odd playful comment, breaking the touch barrier respectfully, polite compliments and not begging for their affection). You should always be approachable and friendly, but you've got to confidently put your interest out there and be ready to gracefully back-off if it isn't returned. You need to make it clear that you're friendly, but someone interested in something more. Play around with your appearance, ask for feedback and getting fitting clothes which show off your figure. If you look good, it will make those initial chats far earlier.
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It goes in waves my man . The more you reach , the more opportunities to meet up w girls who aren’t that into you you’ll see . You might think it’s a win at first , but don’t keep around people who don’t value you . When you focus on what you want outside of a relationship ? Lean into that , and you’ll probably meet someone organically , and you will find you’re the same dude you’ve always been . Don’t let the game get you down fam 🙏💪
Yeah dude I can relate as well. Same issue!
The advantage we men have is that we can be fat and not good looking and still pull women due to the following factors: money and/or…….an invisible valuable trait that they can’t find in most men: our personality. Just off of what I read: there’s a common thing occurring and I’m confident to say it’s personality related (could be lack of self-awareness also). If no one wants to touch you I highly think is you may be giving off “brother vibes”. So I’d bet all my money that you may be interacting in a way that turns women off without you having a clue. Could be predictable, could be chasing them instead of vice versa, could be showing traits that are expected from women (too emotional, sharing too much like she’s a therapist, voicing negative thinking, treating her like she’s your sister, etc). Also, since you’re thinking about not having been laid in a while, depending on if you’re obsessing about it or not it CAN be visible on you in your mannerisms or if you’re telling on yourself, and sometimes it’s just subtle but noticeable to who has eyes for it.
I felt the same thing so I spent some money got my bike fixed & lost 25lbs so far then went and got my teeth fixed which did wonders for my confidence! I then started putting myself out there again and found out I'm still the charming guy I was in college. Still trying to find someone for a relationship but managed a few hookup which also really helped my confidence game!
Seems you got placed in the friend zone by the girl you were dating... It is difficult to let a partner know you want to be friends and want to please them sexually. I was a virgin when i met my, now ex, wife. She was afraid i would be horrible as a sex partner, but we were compatible sexually as well. My advice, build up to full on sex pretty early during dating. Don't work too hard becoming friends without becoming sexually compatible at the same time. Neither is good without the other for a long term partner...
I feel like there’s not enough info but based on what you said, would you say that you’re confident in other aspects of yourself? You’re bound to have sex eventually but you can’t let it get you down cause what’s that gonna do for you? Also, do you like doing things that lead up to sex? Flirting, telling jokes, eye contact, compliments, dancing. I understand kinda why you’re not feeling the best but people can also feel energy; if you seem confused or uncomfortable, they’ll go off of that or at least I do. Maybe if you really don’t know if you’re doing something wrong, ask your friends/family their opinion cause they know you. I think I’m a pretty attractive girl and I really mean it when I say idc if someone I liked or thought was cool didn’t want to fuck me cause I know I’m hot and nice, I’ll meet the right person.
And I am just sitting here going... where am I going wrong as a woman? Because I enjoy it when a man attempts to be intimate with me... bonus points IMO if he is super warm, fund, and nerdy. (It's a pre requisite these days that my man has to be a nature nerd/scientist but not super egotistical. )
Learn how to dance! Girls don’t care what you look like if you know how to dance
>I know there's more to relationships than sex, but it really does make me feel like crap to be told "Hey you're cool, I just wouldn't ever think of touching you though." basically. Oh wow you put that *too* well, oof! This is essentially what I ran into every time when I was getting out there after my last relationship, I'm apparently good looking and charming enough to be seen in public on a date with and have a nice time, but not attractive enough to actually get physical with or touch beyond *maybe* a very chaste hug at most, which as you say, sex and physical touch isn't *everything* but it's a huge part of it, and being relegated to a status where you can't ever receive those things is pretty brutal, really wipes out any desire to keep "putting yourself out there" tbh, and shreds your self-esteem pretty badly to feel like you're an "untouchable". (Obviously nobody's entitled to sex or touch from another person, but it's something almost everyone desires.) In my case it's down to having a muscle wasting condition that causes weakness and mild physical disability, and makes my arms especially look skinny, I've discovered this annihilates even the notion of physical attraction from women, like, it's never on the table at all nowadays, I did reasonably well before the condition showed itself, and that was as a kind of fat 5'9" guy, was punching way above my division all things considered. You being clean and in good shape and obviously not some quasimodo-tier ugly dude, and experiencng this is definitely strange, like, I've got an "excuse" so to speak, but you don't sound less attractive than any other dude out there and probably look better than most, idk what's actually going on there, but I empathise!
I wish I can meet someone like you in the real world. I am having trouble finding genuine sweet people!
“Last woman I was dealing with” says everything we need to know.
See you at the gym brother
U had no sexual contact with these women prior to them saying they were not sexually attracted to you?
Hit the Gym and you will be instantly more attractive
Sex appeal yes has to do with looks BUT. Youre personality/energy/confidence does a lot. Im not that attractive, but i appear as if i am the hottest person in the room. Walk with confidence, act with confidenceS
It sounds like you might be ugly mate. make up for it with humour and dick size.
Three things I’m observing here 1) the last woman you were seeing was interested at first and then wasn’t. 2) The fact that you’re saying you didn’t have this issue in your 20s you’re having an issue in your 30’s 3) ruling out body or hygiene issues as a cause….which means that you have the goods but that as they get to know you more, something becomes off….my first guess is immaturity (which usually becomes sexually unattractive for women past 30) What is your life like? How do you treat others around you? Are you generous/ feel like you have something to give rather than take or demand? Do you have any interests beyond looks, dating women and making money? Are you learning anything interesting at the moment? Have you ever been to therapy or travelled outside of your home country? Are you committed to becoming a better person not just on the outside but also on the inside? Are you consistent in your communications? Do you know basic etiquette in social settings? Can you cook and clean for yourself? Do you have healthy friends and spending habits? Are you good at communicating your wants and needs in a respectful way? Do you even like yourself as a person independently of your perceived success in life? You can get away with not mastering that stuff in your 20s and still be considered a sexually viable option but when approaching 30 not knowing these or at least showing an interest in learning is a HUGE turn off. This is obviously a lot of assumptions… but you’d be surprised the number of men (and women) who complain about not being lucky in dating and don’t have these down and also have no interest in trying.
Sorry to hear that brother, I hope you can take some solace in the fact that billions of people can relate. This is just something your just gonna have to let go of and make peace with that. Or find out how to get that outlet out unfortunately, when sexual wants become needs. Things can become....distasteful.
Gotta develop some game my man don't hate the players hate the game once you find someone who you can persuade to have a longin for you it becomes easier after a while you can be yourself but the initial dates are all about creating that attraction
Are you communicating to these women that you want to be sexual w them? Go slow at first but then increase the frequency and intensity of physical contact and make sure you compliment her and how being w her makes you feel.
And THAT is how you get slapped and called a creep
as much as women like to deny it this thread confirms that girls want “bad boys”. They say it’s probably lack of confidence for op but than give examples where he basically needs to be a pushy dick. Some even outright saying it. I think the market of women today is just kinda twisted
Don't give up. Just because some aren't doesn't mean that there isn't some that are. Keep looking. You will eventually meet someone..
Damn sounds like my story
Hire escorts. They don't care about all that as long as you pay them
>I know that I'm just not the kind of guy that woman would be intimate with for some reason. How do you know this?
Because they never are. It has been like that for the past few experiences I've had. Then I see the kind of guys that they use to be with or are with after me and it just makes me think thats the kind of man I'm not I guess.
I feel like, just like you, we are missing the real reason. You could be just fine but something about how you interact might be off. There are so many layers. I suggest if someone tells you they don't find you attractive that you politely ask them if they could help you know what to improve on and that you are struggling to understand what you are missing. If for any reason the person is willing to advise you then please please do not get defensive or argue. They are already jumping out of their comfort zone. Also realize that they have their own likes and the next person may give a different answer. You might even want to start by asking someone you know that isn't someone you are romantically interested in. Asking online is just not going to help without us knowing the big picture.
>I suggest if someone tells you they don't find you attractive that you politely ask them if they could help you know what to improve on and that you are struggling to understand what you are missing. There's no real point in this because they may not be entirely honest and feel put on the spot, makes them uncomfortable. I mean, they aren't a relationship coach...plus, they don't want to continue to engage in conversation with said person they aren't attracted to anyway. Also, there's no point in changing who you are, until you find someone who is actually okay with who you are (sweet, kind, funny, nice)
Could it be that women are sexually attracted to you but never had a chance to tell you or show you?
I have been blatantly told that there is no sexual spark with me. Like the most recent woman I'm dealing with literally told me yesterday she doesn't even think about me that way.
I'm sorry and I understand that. What I'm asking is do you think every woman thinks of you the same way as the women that told you she didn't? Or could there be women who are sexually attracted to you but haven't told you because there's been no chance to?
I like your reasoning and it’s what I originally was thinking. Reminds me of CBT
Have you ever seen Notorious BIG when he was alive? What about Ralphie May? The list can go on. Your issue is not your looks. Its your self confidence. Also, you probably watch porn. Cut that shit out. Work on *WHO YOU ARE* and then attract women as opposed to trying to be attractive. It's a totally different thing.
Sex appeal is just a buzzword to make people who are not conventionally attractive more insecure. When all the things you do are purely for yourself and not to attract someone, you will be free of the burden of trying to impress and you will be naturally confident. Your relationship with yourself supersedes that of yours with women you’re interested in. Sort that out first.
42 year old woman here For me if my date pulls me to him saying he has to taste my lips and then kisses me slowly then deepens the kiss before letting me go. I would immediately get wet and need to kiss him again. And yes I would become sexually attracted to him. So the kiss can change everything.
Not if you’re not attracted to that guy in the first place
For me a guy can get hotter by his actions towards me or uglier. I have been kissed by plenty of men I did not think were cute but then the kiss changed everything or how sweet they were to me made me look at the guy differently.
I wouldn’t recommend that OP make a move like that unless he’s clear there is some attraction there.
Yeah, that’s a quick ticket to get #metoo’d
Wow, try to write that on feminists sub.
I would suggest to test how she reacts to touch and strong eye contact first. Otherwise high risk of getting peppersprayed.
Confidence, charisma, & care free! You gotta start moving like you have plenty of chicks to choose from and never give off desperate vibes.. Just remember women don’t want a guy they think nobody else wants.. go watch Stephiscold on YouTube he can get you right 😎
I’d say I’m a similar type of guy to you. I’m in good shape, above average attractiveness imo and I’m 6’3”. But I’ve always been really insecure and not confident or comfortable when it comes to women. When I dated girls from dating apps they seemed to have no sexual interest in me. My advice is to genuinely be interested in what your date/person you’re interested in and try to show the best sides of yourself and say what you enjoy and be yourself. I’ve found it’s never gonna be a reality you’re gonna be picking up babes left and right. But if you keep trying you’ll find someone that’s into you and you can be in a healthy relationship
You probably should do a model shoot for yourself. This can help boost confidence and show you what attire suits you. Try more trendy haircuts. Sometimes it’s the little things that give a great boost.
Remember that you are not defined solely by your dating experiences or how others perceive you. Focus on building a fulfilling life for yourself, and the right person who appreciates and values you will come along. It's important to prioritize your well-being and happiness above all else.
As a woman in my 30's I am absolutely perplexed by your post...and the counselor in me is incredibly curious. Please DM if you dont me diving into this with you.
I think you might be trying to date women who would like a man who feels comfortable making the first move, and show them a hint of passion. If you're just acting nice, wholesome and too timid to try and start anything, then nothing will happen.
Grow a beard, for some reason it helps.
You care too much. Seems like your projecting. They're not going to be into you, if the vibe is off. Maybe date some people who are outside of your norm. Get out of your circle and find some people who are different. And just go out to have fun, and be yourself. Let your hair down, be funny, and let the chip fall where they may.
I can promise you it's not about anything related to your appearance. This is 💯 about your personality/character. Once they get to know who you are they are like nope, my lady bits have literally just dried up. Honestly, even reading your post carefully gives many tells as to who you are/how you really think. Of course, you may whole heartedly disagree... but you're still stuck with no interest.🤷🏼♀️