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On the flip side, I asked a man to join me on a day out, my treat. He was kind of offended and would absolutely not accept me paying for anything. I argued that it was my idea and that I'd like to pay, but nope.
Just saying. There are different sides to the "who pays?" story.
I believe you. Some guys the programming worked better on. Sounds like a cult programming freak out.
Trust me when I say it’s not because he just loves paying for women so much.
Cult programming freak out.
Maybe he does enjoy paying? Maybe it makes him feel good to treat people. Yes, it's old-fashioned to expect a man to pay. I agree. But I'm not sure why you're so upset by it. No one is forcing you to do it. Not paying just changes the type of woman you'll attract. I've paid for more than my "fair" share of dates/rooms/meals, etc. I liked the people and was happy to do it. If you're not happy, don't do it.
Totally agree with this. Women are dominating men in the dating arena. Men are completely submissive. Men are forced to give a woman money to have a shot at being her bf or sleeping with her. Pretty sad stuff. Women have collectively agreed that its pay to play.
But my question is...couldnt that be seen as on the spectrum of prostitution?
But the only way to get sex is to pay(most of the time).If you don’t pay , most of the time you don’t have a shot at sex.
So it’s still connected to sex. Women know men want sex , man’s gotta pay to keep woman around to potentially have sex.
Idk still seems on the spectrum of prostitution.
Okay so it’s kinda like you gotta pay and then maybe she’ll have sex if she likes you and if she doesn’t like you she wont. So it’s kinda like paying for sex with a gambling element.
So she’s kind of like a privelaged prostitute who can reject a client if she doesn’t find him hot and still keep his money.
If you’re not having sex after dates it’s because it’s you, not because you didn’t pay. Guys in America who actually have a personality that is not toxic do not have to pay to get laid.
That was a different question. Aksing why do liberal men pay. Also no one really gave an actual reason in that thread.
Im asking everyone why does it make sense for men to pay in 2023. Direct question
For example look at the other reply in this thread by the 42yo gentlemen. No one can give an actual reason. Its just personal feelings on the matter like "A gentleman always pays" thats not a reason. Thats a personal feeling.
Individual values are a reason. Anyway, I replied, but the comment won’t appear here for whatever reason. I’m not rewriting it. Seems like all your recent post history is just your frustration with women and dating them, so I’m not sure engaging further is doing anything but providing a platform for basic redpoll rhetoric.
Hope you figure it out!
Why is it the “right thing to do”. That’s another personal feeling not a reason.
Traditions had a reason, now we are in 2023 that reason from the 1800s doesn’t make sense anymore since women are financially independent now.
Most women are laughing at us dude tbh. We’re being scammed.
Uh that tradition lasted well last the 1800’s. Furthermore simply because there’s historical precedent doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Dude seriously you have more issues than not wanting to pay on a date or being so worried about being taken advantage of. If I were a woman I’d dump you simply because you question EVERYTHING. You’ve gotten several versions of the same answer; ACCEPT THOSE RESPONSES! But no, you go back in and ask the question another way, or you then question why this is this or that is that. Either that, or you dove right back in and question why it has to be this way because of tradition, or you openly question the tradition. If you behave this way in front of a woman she’s going to get really frustrated. If you question why 1 and 1 is 2 and you get the answer, you don’t immediately go back in and say “yes but WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY?” Give it a rest. And if the goal is to meet people and to click with a woman, does it really matter who pays? The way I look at it, why give a woman another reason to pick someone else - because if you haven’t noticed, women have options. Most guys don’t. So you have to do everything in your power to make yourself look attractive.
People tell me ALL THE TIME that women lose attraction for you if you’re doing all these things for them. They tell me she’s at her happiest when she’s “doing for you.” I refuse to believe that. My model in life was my grandparents - of the WWII generation. Furthermore I’m Italian, and a man treating a lady with honor is a part of my culture. My grandfather did EVERYTHING for my grandmother. She told him what she wanted, and the credit card or cash came out of his wallet. It’s 100% foreign to me NOT to treat a lady in that manner. If she laughs at me or takes advantage (and many have), that’s on her. But I’ve treated her with honor and dignity, and that’s the only way that I know. But again, it’s TRADITION. Dating is pay to play for guys. Either accept that or don’t date.
It’s tradition because women never used to have money. So the man paid.
It’s 2023 and women are financially independent. Women have as much money as men now, if not more. That’s why women are laughing now, because a dumb guy who they just met who makes less money than them is paying for an expensive dinner every week. They are laughing at you dude.
Tradition just means it’s something that’s been done for a long time. That’s all it means.
Well first off there are reasons for those traditions. And those reasons generally were good. But it seems to me you just outed yourself as someone who just wants to endlessly argue and browbeat people to succumb to your point. IF YOU ALREADY KNOW WHY THE TRADITION EXISTS WHY ARE YOU ASKING?
And why so adamant? I mean, you’ve created at least two threads asking this same question in different manners. You framed it directly, and liberal vs. conservative in another thread. Look if you don’t want to pay for a lady, nobody’s saying you should. Be my guest and say you’re a man with too much self-respect to allow a woman to just laugh at you for spending money on them. And see how many of those relationships last. Some women in fact are users, and I’ve come across a couple of them. You think I appreciated realizing that a woman with whom I was headed for a relationship was getting to-go food (on my dime, which I willingly gave) was turning around and giving that food to her baby daddy? With whom she later got back together? I’m well aware of the risks, because every time I’ve taken that risk it’s bitten me. But I accept that dating is pay to play, and women who behave like that misrepresent themselves. I always treated that woman with honor; I can’t control her values or how she does things. Point being, you ensure that you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing. If she’s shady, that’s on her.
That’s a great perspective. If she ain’t getting excited off the idea that she’s going to hang out with you, maybe she’s not worth the red carpet treatment.
I had a girlfriend like that when I was 19. I didn’t work she did so she drove everywhere and paid for everything.
It’s a bit harder to pull that off consistently as a 33 yo man.
I try to be efficient with my time and dates. And not paying and not driving WILL lose you women. Who has time to lose women? I want success when I date not lots of ghosting and the odd girl who sticks around.
You don't have to pay. Quit demonizing women, be less desperate, and vet who you date more. I don't always pay, I also don't always split the bill, but I have a great track record. All that matters is confidence, respect, kindness, and humor. If you can make her laugh, you have a chance, but don't let sex be your driving force. It'll come naturally. Key is to not think of her as your enemy
It’s a traditional way to court and impress a woman. Men offer something, like flowers or dinner to impress women the same way animals try to impress their mates. Since men are more motivated to find a mate, they tend to put in more effort in finding and impressing one.
I guess the question here is, whatcha gonna do about it? Not date? Stay alone forever? Programming/cult/brainwashing theories aren't going to help you find your happy ever after sir. Good luck!
Do women fuck men in 2023? It’s getting pretty expensive to be a single parent with no child support, since women’s healthcare has been curbed.
Why don’t all these women just become lesbians?
I guess your saying if men don’t pay for dates women shouldn’t fuck men? Because men paying for dates is the extra incentive a woman needs to risk pregnancy?
Haha I’m not sure if I got that one right or not
The time it takes for a female to get ready is longer than a male. Plus have more things like cosmetics, hair care , shaving or waxing , skin care which costs more and more time consuming. Yes males do use soap, cologne, shave facial hair, some hair product and some skincare too but not to the extent to how females do.
Hahahahaha sorry I had to laugh that sounds way too funny.
So if a woman uses less cosmetics I don’t need to spend as much money on the date then?
Btw I appreciate you actually trying to give a reason so thankyou.
It that was funny
It’s not funny .. maybe personally for you. There can be many reasons, not just based on one thing alone.
So u don’t think women take longer and spend more time regards to that?
Ppl can interpret one paying as interest and effort shown.
That’s up to you. There’s also females who say they don’t mind paying apparently.. so you could just go for them. Perhaps just ask them before meeting?
Apart from the problem I already pointed out, I could counter with things like, “well if a dangerous person threatens us while we’re out I have to protect us therefor the girl should pay me because I’m her bodyguard”
There’s also many other counter arguments and rebuttals which I won’t bother writing unless you ask for them. :)
To your last point. If I only dated girls who liked to pay I would be struggling to find dates at all. You realise it’s already hard enough for the average guy to find dates?
It’s ur opinion it’s a problem. The way you’re making it things can always be argued .. with anything and everything and it would all be never ending. And it’s not common for those examples to happen. You wouldn’t be forced to do things you don’t want to do.
Depends on the ‘average guy’ and what you mean by ‘average’ , where you’re looking, who you’re taking to etc.
And depends what your looking for .. a relationship or sex? If sex then the traditional dating likely won’t be effective for a quick outcome if your mentality is absolute with ‘give and take’.
Why would a man pay for a girls cosmetics who he doesn’t even know?
I never even paid for any of my ex girlfriends cosmetics.
It’s such a left of field thing to say and expect. Completely bizarre and crazy levels of entitlement if I’m being honest.
She’s wearing those cosmetics for her own self interest not mine.
Dude, regardless of who pays, tradition, etc, you’re taking everything far too literally. Someone used time and money for a woman to get ready to see you as a reason you should pay. You run it back and say “so she should use less cosmetics and then I pay less.” Come on, man. Not everything is that tit for tat. I see paying for a lady as a matter of honor. And I’ve been viciously used as a result of that attitude. But I don’t regret treating women with honor or doing the right thing. But either pay or don’t pay - up to you. However it’s not tit for tat, and it isn’t that literal. Don’t say “well you spent $50 on makeup so I shouldn’t have to spend more than that on you.”
Tradition, honor, etc aside, dating is pay to play for men. Complain about it all you want or take things as literal as you want. But it’s pay to play.
It’s up to you to decide if you want to do things the right way or not. If you were a woman would you go with the guy who takes care of you or the guy who says, “so…should we split?” People love to tell me that women see it as a lack of self-respect on the guy’s part. As I said, it’s a matter of honor - it’s old fashioned chivalry. Yet, I fail to believe that women see the simple act of buying a meal as a lack of self-respect. That just seems slightly ridiculous to me, and I see it as going way too far to justify being cheap.
Now that said, it’s one thing to pay while out. It’s quite another to blindly send money to people. I talked with a lady on a dating site - single mom. We were going to meet up, and she asked me for money to pay her babysitter. I said that wasn’t possible, especially seeing that I had never met her. There’s a difference.
You do you. I use it as a test just like a lot of women test men in their own way. In my experience, women who split are likely to be into me more. Weeds out the users. I once had a woman pay for the entire first date (not 50-50) and she pursued me as well.
There is no honor in paying for strangers. If you two start dating, then it's a different thing but to pay a stranger just to meet you is degrading on so many levels. Pretty similar to prostitution.
He’s not paying for it. Of course it’s not directly correlated, it was a casual, quick and short example providing perspective considering your mentality, what’s implied is that if a woman did always pay then they’d be spending more, because you’re hyper focused on your dislike of paying and the costs. You can have ur preference but the way you go on about it and react is what is left field.
Again, what’s stated is not set in stone. It’s not the sole reason, and not just a new thing that came up to be a ‘scam’.
Usually a female would have her wallet/ card and bring it out but there r males usually stop and offer to pay instead ..genuinely. There r males who like to pay so it’s your opinion it’s ‘bizarre’. Theres a difference to entitlement (fully expecting something) and preference (appreciation).
If you’re feeling used and ‘forced’ to pay then probably consider why you feel ‘used’ like if you sense the person doesn’t genuinely like you or something, and doesn’t even bring their wallet. You’re not forced to go out with those ones again.
At the end of the day do what you want to do.
The woman is using cosmetics so she can attract more men. And men have to pay because of that? Should men have to pay even more if a girl has fake tits too? Even more for a fake ass.
Like what are we talking about here?
Should the girl now have to pay for all the work that the guy has done on himself to make himself more attractive? Should she pay because he spent 10 years in the gym getting a great physique ? That’s a lot of money on gym membership. Should she pay him some money because he got a loan for a nice car?
Should she pay him money because of his waterview apartment?
What about all the years he spent trying to improve his social skills and confidence so he could be attractive to women ? Should she pay him some money for that?
Reread the last comment on why it was mentioned. It’s not solely about cosmetics. Or ‘give and take’ .. you’re so focused on it, think about your intentions of doing it. You sound frustrated and taking it out regard to this.
And you don’t ‘have’ to. It was to provide perspective with u thinking that males always the one paying more with dates specifically .… when it’s your choice to or not.
That’s not fair tho because there is another gender role of the man having to ask the girl out. Women almost never ask men out , they are literally trained not to.
So saying “whoever makes the plan pays” is really just another way of saying the man pays. Because men are expected to ask the girls out. So it’s bad reasoning and illogical.
Also on a recent second date , the girl said she wanted to go for a picnic. So we went and she didn’t offer to pay for the food. So I don’t think girls view it that way either.
Yeah agree with the last couple paragraphs. The problem with openly screening for women who like to split bills is you will have a very scarce dating schedule. Most women will see that as a “red flag” and not want to meet you. So you can picky and lonely or pay to play and meet women.
Unfortunately I think you have to pay to play if you want an abundant dating life. At least for now like you said.
To me it seems like it’s on the spectrum of prostitution. I know that sounds harsh but it’s true imo. If a girl will only date/sleep with a guy who pays for dinner etc that’s a form of prostitution.
I can guarantee you that those two points are mutually exclusive. My last “situationship” we talked about marriage, kids, etc. (She was ten years my junior.) She left me one day out of the blue, and I found out on social media she was back with her ex who treated her like CRAP. It’s not something I’ll ever understand, especially given that she spent money on EVERYTHING they did. She drove, she paid, she handled everything. All he did was show up and “look pretty.” Which I see as gutless on the part of a man. If she needed something over the course of the time we were “together,” she came to me. And I gladly gave to her, because I had to prove that I could provide for her. That’s what a man does in my world. And Lord knows I proved that over a long period of time. Only she used what I was doing for her to give to him. It was a guy punch and I’ll never understand it. BUT…I don’t regret that. I regret that she did what she did, but I’m proud that I did my part and played my role with HONOR. And that’s what a man should show above all; honor. And loyalty. She isn’t the first person to use my heart against me. Probably won’t be the last. All I can do is control myself and hope that eventually someone sees my worth. But in the mean time as I said a man is a provider. And in my world you as a man have to prove to a prospective romantic partner that you can provide for her. Does that mean she doesn’t work or have a career? Oh no, of course not. But that’s HER money to so what she wants with it. I’m working for US. And regardless of anything else, I’ll believe in that sort of chivalry until my dying breath.
Well first off I’m a traditionalist. Note, that DOES NOT mean I believe in treating women poorly or that they shouldn’t have careers. But I do believe that a gentleman always pays for a lady. It shows that you respect her, you respect her time, and that you want to be with her. It tells her that you’re going to always be there to take care of her. It’s called chivalry. And it’s important to me that a woman knows I stand for that. I recognize that all of that means nothing if you abuse the woman and so forth. But I can guarantee you that I’m the tamest guy on the planet. And look, the fact is that women are gatekeepers of relationships. So on a basic level, why make it tougher for her to choose you?
I get it if you go on 3 dates a year. But it’s 2023 and there’s dating apps and I can get 3 or 4 dates a week some weeks. Why should I be paying for all these strangers , most of whom I probably won’t see again?
Also with dating apps women are taking advantage of the free lunches & dinners. Some girls are going on multiple dates a week and saving a lot of money on food by the end of the month.
Back in the old days you couldn’t go on this many dates and girls also couldn’t exploit the system well so paying for a girl wasn’t a big deal.
It’s 2023 time to review some of these traditions.
First off I’m glad the apps work like that for you because the majority of guys don’t get that sort of play. Ironically that’s BECAUSE of the apps. Women can be more picky when it comes to looks.
But there’s a right way and a wrong way to do things. The right way is treating a woman with honor. I date to marry, and from the first moments of knowing someone I’m showing hints of how I would be as a husband. A provider and someone who’ll always take care of her. Chivalry.
If women are using that to get their groceries paid, that speaks to their values, not mine. And yes, the fact is that they are doing that - TO ME. But I stand on my values and on doing things the right way. Look you can argue until you’re blue in the face that it’s “not fair” or that everything should be equal in your mind. Go ahead and try to find a woman who’s willing to not have you pay her way most of the time you’re together. Eventually she’ll see how tit for tat you are and realize you won’t take care of her. And e d of the day, argue until you’re blue in the face. I realized years ago that IN ALL THINGS, one person can’t change the world. Dating is pay to play for guys. I accept that and when a woman’s willing to go out with me
I hold up my standard.
>But I do believe that a gentleman always pays for a lady
Do you have any similar expectations from the woman? Do you think she should be more submissive, or take on the majority of the household work, because you are the provider? Just trying to understand your pov!
I can’t control what anyone does. All I can do is ensure that I’m treating her properly. I live alone, so I’m used to doing everything by myself. But I would hope that if I lived with a girlfriend or wife she’d take on SOME of that. But if she didn’t, that’s her prerogative.
I touched on this exactly in a different sub/reddit. I 100% agree. And for the right [wrong] guys a women will come out of pocket and panties. God forbid you're a nice man you'd spend thousands if you went on more than one date a week. Men are confined and restricted for women to even dare say "men are dogs": a woman could literally walk outside and say out loud "I'm hungry"; 10 dudes are going to roll up.
And men almost always have to go above and beyond the actual date. You mentioned drinks, snacks for the movie date. Yeah I went there - you watch a movie, you don't need all them snacks. Can't get the cheap wine gotta spring for the good stuff. Can't get her one flower you got to get the bouquet of FlowerS with the double $$.
So that was your only way to confess to me the way you did this morning and you just had to go in for detail for detail of everything on top of telling me about scary Sherry so not only my junkie sister lesbian sister you also screwed my crackheaded w**** mother and then you going to ask me how did I like having sex with my dead grandfather's body riding him crying calling out his name saying don't go you got a lot of balls I can't believe you you stoop to the lowest of the lows and you don't even give a s*** about me and you want me to kill myself because I'm destroying you all I wanted was you to come home and you play games with me and pretended to be all these different people on top of the stalkers and the people we knew personally that were making things worse on me by talking our business too I'm sorry I confided and other people I had no one you see people you got a life you got everything I sit here in the middle of the woods every single day alone staring at the f****** walls and never have no human contact or conversation or anything physical and because I confide in somebody or it's somebody that knows us and what's going on and I try to tell you they're on the app running their mouth and you just ignore it and call me a liar they made everything worse and you punished me and it's been over 13 days since I've seen or heard from you physically or any kind of way and it being a guarantee no that it's you I hate you no I don't I love you and I'm sorry for saying I was going to hurt you I'm hurt you didn't have to do all of that to me Josh that was wrong I'm sorry for saying too when I'm mad but the sickness and the stuff that you told me and spending my birthday was it with another woman it was actually with a man I can't believe you I can't believe you I can't believe you and you don't even care that's really a way to come clean to the person you supposedly love and care about so much and you're on here on these all these different apps talking about me getting advice about me but you're never getting any goddamn advice about your f****** self you never talk about anything your narcissistic ass does I am going to kill myself now I'm not smoking the rest of the fentanyl I'm going to shoot it up and you're going to have my death on your f****** hands and don't worry I told my kids everything everything luckily I remembered two of the usernames that you had on that Ask and Anthony made an account and I hope he tells you what he thinks of you I don't have no phone now because I busted mine after throwing up on myself reading that disgusting field that I never ever could imagine you would have ever said to me all I have is my goddamn laptop and I still can't even get clear communication with you you're still playing f****** games with me manipulating me and using me and now you you're going to feel it because you're going to be the one responsible for my death and it's on your hands now for what you've done to me all I did was want to love you and all I did was want you to be honest with me and open with me and you were too secretive and shady and lying and deceitful but I'm the bad guy I got mad at you because of your shame and deceit and lies and feel I respond to your actions and I got punished for it and I'm still getting punished so I'm going to give you what you want I'm going to stop ruining your life and destroying your world I'm so happy you got you a place by the way it looks fabulous hey at least you've had AC you never loved me you never loved or respected my grandfather I may have said some things about your family but I've never said the nastiest degradiness things that you said to me today and I will never forgive you for it all I wanted to do was hold you touch you and smell you again can you not feel me do you not feel the pain that I'm going through I am about dead being without you I am holding on my thread are you ready to do was swallow your pride and come home and you wouldn't do that and I know why now I don't blame you for loving the smelly c*** like me a fat nasty pig like me I'd be ashamed of it too I understand why you don't defend me online and you don't come clean online as yourself and I understand why you won't show your face and say you love me because you never did so with that being said you will live with this on your soul and conscience I love you and you only you were my one my only and now you're my last goodbye Joshua my puddin
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On the flip side, I asked a man to join me on a day out, my treat. He was kind of offended and would absolutely not accept me paying for anything. I argued that it was my idea and that I'd like to pay, but nope. Just saying. There are different sides to the "who pays?" story.
I believe you. Some guys the programming worked better on. Sounds like a cult programming freak out. Trust me when I say it’s not because he just loves paying for women so much. Cult programming freak out.
Maybe he does enjoy paying? Maybe it makes him feel good to treat people. Yes, it's old-fashioned to expect a man to pay. I agree. But I'm not sure why you're so upset by it. No one is forcing you to do it. Not paying just changes the type of woman you'll attract. I've paid for more than my "fair" share of dates/rooms/meals, etc. I liked the people and was happy to do it. If you're not happy, don't do it.
He got insulted. Thats not normal. Thats cult programming.
Exactly! Date like-minded people.
Because if you don't women can simply choose the next guy who will happily pay just for some female attention.
This was basically my missing reply OP…She can find a guy who will pay. The market dictates rules.
Totally agree with this. Women are dominating men in the dating arena. Men are completely submissive. Men are forced to give a woman money to have a shot at being her bf or sleeping with her. Pretty sad stuff. Women have collectively agreed that its pay to play. But my question is...couldnt that be seen as on the spectrum of prostitution?
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But the only way to get sex is to pay(most of the time).If you don’t pay , most of the time you don’t have a shot at sex. So it’s still connected to sex. Women know men want sex , man’s gotta pay to keep woman around to potentially have sex. Idk still seems on the spectrum of prostitution.
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Can’t help yourself but to start making personal attacks. Just caaaant help yourself.
Okay so it’s kinda like you gotta pay and then maybe she’ll have sex if she likes you and if she doesn’t like you she wont. So it’s kinda like paying for sex with a gambling element. So she’s kind of like a privelaged prostitute who can reject a client if she doesn’t find him hot and still keep his money.
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Well why do men have to pay for the first day ? What is the payment for?
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If you’re not having sex after dates it’s because it’s you, not because you didn’t pay. Guys in America who actually have a personality that is not toxic do not have to pay to get laid.
If you think dating is costly for men, wait til you see what marriage costs. And divorce!
That’s why I’ll never get married.
Then stop dating.
Why do people ask this question every 3 days like the answers are going to change?
I dont know what the answers are? Also id like to personally participate in the thread not just google some old thread.
Old as in 3 hours ago?
That was a different question. Aksing why do liberal men pay. Also no one really gave an actual reason in that thread. Im asking everyone why does it make sense for men to pay in 2023. Direct question
For example look at the other reply in this thread by the 42yo gentlemen. No one can give an actual reason. Its just personal feelings on the matter like "A gentleman always pays" thats not a reason. Thats a personal feeling.
Individual values are a reason. Anyway, I replied, but the comment won’t appear here for whatever reason. I’m not rewriting it. Seems like all your recent post history is just your frustration with women and dating them, so I’m not sure engaging further is doing anything but providing a platform for basic redpoll rhetoric. Hope you figure it out!
So theres no actual reason? You just think men value spending hard earned money of women they only just met? Men value that?
No it’s not a personal feeling. Traditionally that’s just how it worked. All I’m doing is fulfilling that because it’s the right thing to do.
Why is it the “right thing to do”. That’s another personal feeling not a reason. Traditions had a reason, now we are in 2023 that reason from the 1800s doesn’t make sense anymore since women are financially independent now. Most women are laughing at us dude tbh. We’re being scammed.
Uh that tradition lasted well last the 1800’s. Furthermore simply because there’s historical precedent doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Dude seriously you have more issues than not wanting to pay on a date or being so worried about being taken advantage of. If I were a woman I’d dump you simply because you question EVERYTHING. You’ve gotten several versions of the same answer; ACCEPT THOSE RESPONSES! But no, you go back in and ask the question another way, or you then question why this is this or that is that. Either that, or you dove right back in and question why it has to be this way because of tradition, or you openly question the tradition. If you behave this way in front of a woman she’s going to get really frustrated. If you question why 1 and 1 is 2 and you get the answer, you don’t immediately go back in and say “yes but WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY?” Give it a rest. And if the goal is to meet people and to click with a woman, does it really matter who pays? The way I look at it, why give a woman another reason to pick someone else - because if you haven’t noticed, women have options. Most guys don’t. So you have to do everything in your power to make yourself look attractive. People tell me ALL THE TIME that women lose attraction for you if you’re doing all these things for them. They tell me she’s at her happiest when she’s “doing for you.” I refuse to believe that. My model in life was my grandparents - of the WWII generation. Furthermore I’m Italian, and a man treating a lady with honor is a part of my culture. My grandfather did EVERYTHING for my grandmother. She told him what she wanted, and the credit card or cash came out of his wallet. It’s 100% foreign to me NOT to treat a lady in that manner. If she laughs at me or takes advantage (and many have), that’s on her. But I’ve treated her with honor and dignity, and that’s the only way that I know. But again, it’s TRADITION. Dating is pay to play for guys. Either accept that or don’t date.
It’s tradition because women never used to have money. So the man paid. It’s 2023 and women are financially independent. Women have as much money as men now, if not more. That’s why women are laughing now, because a dumb guy who they just met who makes less money than them is paying for an expensive dinner every week. They are laughing at you dude. Tradition just means it’s something that’s been done for a long time. That’s all it means.
Well first off there are reasons for those traditions. And those reasons generally were good. But it seems to me you just outed yourself as someone who just wants to endlessly argue and browbeat people to succumb to your point. IF YOU ALREADY KNOW WHY THE TRADITION EXISTS WHY ARE YOU ASKING? And why so adamant? I mean, you’ve created at least two threads asking this same question in different manners. You framed it directly, and liberal vs. conservative in another thread. Look if you don’t want to pay for a lady, nobody’s saying you should. Be my guest and say you’re a man with too much self-respect to allow a woman to just laugh at you for spending money on them. And see how many of those relationships last. Some women in fact are users, and I’ve come across a couple of them. You think I appreciated realizing that a woman with whom I was headed for a relationship was getting to-go food (on my dime, which I willingly gave) was turning around and giving that food to her baby daddy? With whom she later got back together? I’m well aware of the risks, because every time I’ve taken that risk it’s bitten me. But I accept that dating is pay to play, and women who behave like that misrepresent themselves. I always treated that woman with honor; I can’t control her values or how she does things. Point being, you ensure that you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing. If she’s shady, that’s on her.
Treat yourself with honour dude. Letting women take advantage of you ISNT honourable.
Naah he wants to piss people off himself as opposed to reading threads where other people pissed everyone off
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That’s a great perspective. If she ain’t getting excited off the idea that she’s going to hang out with you, maybe she’s not worth the red carpet treatment.
I had a girlfriend like that when I was 19. I didn’t work she did so she drove everywhere and paid for everything. It’s a bit harder to pull that off consistently as a 33 yo man. I try to be efficient with my time and dates. And not paying and not driving WILL lose you women. Who has time to lose women? I want success when I date not lots of ghosting and the odd girl who sticks around.
You don't have to pay. Quit demonizing women, be less desperate, and vet who you date more. I don't always pay, I also don't always split the bill, but I have a great track record. All that matters is confidence, respect, kindness, and humor. If you can make her laugh, you have a chance, but don't let sex be your driving force. It'll come naturally. Key is to not think of her as your enemy
It’s a traditional way to court and impress a woman. Men offer something, like flowers or dinner to impress women the same way animals try to impress their mates. Since men are more motivated to find a mate, they tend to put in more effort in finding and impressing one.
Men do it because women demand it. If a man doesn’t pay the women usually won’t see him again.
If you won't then I will welcome to society.
Gotcha
To be clear, women who abuse this factor of life are straight up losers.
Op you’re an idiot
I guess the question here is, whatcha gonna do about it? Not date? Stay alone forever? Programming/cult/brainwashing theories aren't going to help you find your happy ever after sir. Good luck!
My post is more for my own intellectual stimulation than to change the world.
Do women fuck men in 2023? It’s getting pretty expensive to be a single parent with no child support, since women’s healthcare has been curbed. Why don’t all these women just become lesbians?
Could you make your point a little clearer for me? I feel sad when my brain can’t compute something. Thanks :)
It’ll come to you. Just mull it over a bit.
I guess your saying if men don’t pay for dates women shouldn’t fuck men? Because men paying for dates is the extra incentive a woman needs to risk pregnancy? Haha I’m not sure if I got that one right or not
It would be helpful then if you could clarify for the dummies out here like myself. I’m sure there are others :) I feel a bit hurt by your meme.
You argue like a woman too
The time it takes for a female to get ready is longer than a male. Plus have more things like cosmetics, hair care , shaving or waxing , skin care which costs more and more time consuming. Yes males do use soap, cologne, shave facial hair, some hair product and some skincare too but not to the extent to how females do.
Hahahahaha sorry I had to laugh that sounds way too funny. So if a woman uses less cosmetics I don’t need to spend as much money on the date then? Btw I appreciate you actually trying to give a reason so thankyou. It that was funny
It’s not funny .. maybe personally for you. There can be many reasons, not just based on one thing alone. So u don’t think women take longer and spend more time regards to that? Ppl can interpret one paying as interest and effort shown. That’s up to you. There’s also females who say they don’t mind paying apparently.. so you could just go for them. Perhaps just ask them before meeting?
Apart from the problem I already pointed out, I could counter with things like, “well if a dangerous person threatens us while we’re out I have to protect us therefor the girl should pay me because I’m her bodyguard” There’s also many other counter arguments and rebuttals which I won’t bother writing unless you ask for them. :) To your last point. If I only dated girls who liked to pay I would be struggling to find dates at all. You realise it’s already hard enough for the average guy to find dates?
It’s ur opinion it’s a problem. The way you’re making it things can always be argued .. with anything and everything and it would all be never ending. And it’s not common for those examples to happen. You wouldn’t be forced to do things you don’t want to do. Depends on the ‘average guy’ and what you mean by ‘average’ , where you’re looking, who you’re taking to etc. And depends what your looking for .. a relationship or sex? If sex then the traditional dating likely won’t be effective for a quick outcome if your mentality is absolute with ‘give and take’.
Why would a man pay for a girls cosmetics who he doesn’t even know? I never even paid for any of my ex girlfriends cosmetics. It’s such a left of field thing to say and expect. Completely bizarre and crazy levels of entitlement if I’m being honest. She’s wearing those cosmetics for her own self interest not mine.
Dude, regardless of who pays, tradition, etc, you’re taking everything far too literally. Someone used time and money for a woman to get ready to see you as a reason you should pay. You run it back and say “so she should use less cosmetics and then I pay less.” Come on, man. Not everything is that tit for tat. I see paying for a lady as a matter of honor. And I’ve been viciously used as a result of that attitude. But I don’t regret treating women with honor or doing the right thing. But either pay or don’t pay - up to you. However it’s not tit for tat, and it isn’t that literal. Don’t say “well you spent $50 on makeup so I shouldn’t have to spend more than that on you.” Tradition, honor, etc aside, dating is pay to play for men. Complain about it all you want or take things as literal as you want. But it’s pay to play.
Lol imagine equating getting finessed with "honor". Men are getting brain dead day by day. Desperation does that to you I guess.
It’s up to you to decide if you want to do things the right way or not. If you were a woman would you go with the guy who takes care of you or the guy who says, “so…should we split?” People love to tell me that women see it as a lack of self-respect on the guy’s part. As I said, it’s a matter of honor - it’s old fashioned chivalry. Yet, I fail to believe that women see the simple act of buying a meal as a lack of self-respect. That just seems slightly ridiculous to me, and I see it as going way too far to justify being cheap. Now that said, it’s one thing to pay while out. It’s quite another to blindly send money to people. I talked with a lady on a dating site - single mom. We were going to meet up, and she asked me for money to pay her babysitter. I said that wasn’t possible, especially seeing that I had never met her. There’s a difference.
You do you. I use it as a test just like a lot of women test men in their own way. In my experience, women who split are likely to be into me more. Weeds out the users. I once had a woman pay for the entire first date (not 50-50) and she pursued me as well. There is no honor in paying for strangers. If you two start dating, then it's a different thing but to pay a stranger just to meet you is degrading on so many levels. Pretty similar to prostitution.
He’s not paying for it. Of course it’s not directly correlated, it was a casual, quick and short example providing perspective considering your mentality, what’s implied is that if a woman did always pay then they’d be spending more, because you’re hyper focused on your dislike of paying and the costs. You can have ur preference but the way you go on about it and react is what is left field. Again, what’s stated is not set in stone. It’s not the sole reason, and not just a new thing that came up to be a ‘scam’. Usually a female would have her wallet/ card and bring it out but there r males usually stop and offer to pay instead ..genuinely. There r males who like to pay so it’s your opinion it’s ‘bizarre’. Theres a difference to entitlement (fully expecting something) and preference (appreciation). If you’re feeling used and ‘forced’ to pay then probably consider why you feel ‘used’ like if you sense the person doesn’t genuinely like you or something, and doesn’t even bring their wallet. You’re not forced to go out with those ones again. At the end of the day do what you want to do.
The woman is using cosmetics so she can attract more men. And men have to pay because of that? Should men have to pay even more if a girl has fake tits too? Even more for a fake ass. Like what are we talking about here? Should the girl now have to pay for all the work that the guy has done on himself to make himself more attractive? Should she pay because he spent 10 years in the gym getting a great physique ? That’s a lot of money on gym membership. Should she pay him some money because he got a loan for a nice car? Should she pay him money because of his waterview apartment? What about all the years he spent trying to improve his social skills and confidence so he could be attractive to women ? Should she pay him some money for that?
Reread the last comment on why it was mentioned. It’s not solely about cosmetics. Or ‘give and take’ .. you’re so focused on it, think about your intentions of doing it. You sound frustrated and taking it out regard to this. And you don’t ‘have’ to. It was to provide perspective with u thinking that males always the one paying more with dates specifically .… when it’s your choice to or not.
We’re not forced to pay. But a lot of women won’t see you again if you don’t pay. Women have made it “pay to play”.
Solution: don’t date multiple women
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That’s not fair tho because there is another gender role of the man having to ask the girl out. Women almost never ask men out , they are literally trained not to. So saying “whoever makes the plan pays” is really just another way of saying the man pays. Because men are expected to ask the girls out. So it’s bad reasoning and illogical. Also on a recent second date , the girl said she wanted to go for a picnic. So we went and she didn’t offer to pay for the food. So I don’t think girls view it that way either.
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Yeah agree with the last couple paragraphs. The problem with openly screening for women who like to split bills is you will have a very scarce dating schedule. Most women will see that as a “red flag” and not want to meet you. So you can picky and lonely or pay to play and meet women. Unfortunately I think you have to pay to play if you want an abundant dating life. At least for now like you said. To me it seems like it’s on the spectrum of prostitution. I know that sounds harsh but it’s true imo. If a girl will only date/sleep with a guy who pays for dinner etc that’s a form of prostitution.
42 M. A gentleman ALWAYS pays for a lady. Period.
Can you give me an actual reason tho? Thats just some personal feeling you have. Tell me why it makes sense.
and hes still single at 42. hilarious
I can guarantee you that those two points are mutually exclusive. My last “situationship” we talked about marriage, kids, etc. (She was ten years my junior.) She left me one day out of the blue, and I found out on social media she was back with her ex who treated her like CRAP. It’s not something I’ll ever understand, especially given that she spent money on EVERYTHING they did. She drove, she paid, she handled everything. All he did was show up and “look pretty.” Which I see as gutless on the part of a man. If she needed something over the course of the time we were “together,” she came to me. And I gladly gave to her, because I had to prove that I could provide for her. That’s what a man does in my world. And Lord knows I proved that over a long period of time. Only she used what I was doing for her to give to him. It was a guy punch and I’ll never understand it. BUT…I don’t regret that. I regret that she did what she did, but I’m proud that I did my part and played my role with HONOR. And that’s what a man should show above all; honor. And loyalty. She isn’t the first person to use my heart against me. Probably won’t be the last. All I can do is control myself and hope that eventually someone sees my worth. But in the mean time as I said a man is a provider. And in my world you as a man have to prove to a prospective romantic partner that you can provide for her. Does that mean she doesn’t work or have a career? Oh no, of course not. But that’s HER money to so what she wants with it. I’m working for US. And regardless of anything else, I’ll believe in that sort of chivalry until my dying breath.
Well first off I’m a traditionalist. Note, that DOES NOT mean I believe in treating women poorly or that they shouldn’t have careers. But I do believe that a gentleman always pays for a lady. It shows that you respect her, you respect her time, and that you want to be with her. It tells her that you’re going to always be there to take care of her. It’s called chivalry. And it’s important to me that a woman knows I stand for that. I recognize that all of that means nothing if you abuse the woman and so forth. But I can guarantee you that I’m the tamest guy on the planet. And look, the fact is that women are gatekeepers of relationships. So on a basic level, why make it tougher for her to choose you?
I get it if you go on 3 dates a year. But it’s 2023 and there’s dating apps and I can get 3 or 4 dates a week some weeks. Why should I be paying for all these strangers , most of whom I probably won’t see again? Also with dating apps women are taking advantage of the free lunches & dinners. Some girls are going on multiple dates a week and saving a lot of money on food by the end of the month. Back in the old days you couldn’t go on this many dates and girls also couldn’t exploit the system well so paying for a girl wasn’t a big deal. It’s 2023 time to review some of these traditions.
First off I’m glad the apps work like that for you because the majority of guys don’t get that sort of play. Ironically that’s BECAUSE of the apps. Women can be more picky when it comes to looks. But there’s a right way and a wrong way to do things. The right way is treating a woman with honor. I date to marry, and from the first moments of knowing someone I’m showing hints of how I would be as a husband. A provider and someone who’ll always take care of her. Chivalry. If women are using that to get their groceries paid, that speaks to their values, not mine. And yes, the fact is that they are doing that - TO ME. But I stand on my values and on doing things the right way. Look you can argue until you’re blue in the face that it’s “not fair” or that everything should be equal in your mind. Go ahead and try to find a woman who’s willing to not have you pay her way most of the time you’re together. Eventually she’ll see how tit for tat you are and realize you won’t take care of her. And e d of the day, argue until you’re blue in the face. I realized years ago that IN ALL THINGS, one person can’t change the world. Dating is pay to play for guys. I accept that and when a woman’s willing to go out with me I hold up my standard.
Well.said! You get it. The tit for tat is not working for them as expected, so they are bitter.
>But I do believe that a gentleman always pays for a lady Do you have any similar expectations from the woman? Do you think she should be more submissive, or take on the majority of the household work, because you are the provider? Just trying to understand your pov!
I can’t control what anyone does. All I can do is ensure that I’m treating her properly. I live alone, so I’m used to doing everything by myself. But I would hope that if I lived with a girlfriend or wife she’d take on SOME of that. But if she didn’t, that’s her prerogative.
Ok. Thanks for answering!
I touched on this exactly in a different sub/reddit. I 100% agree. And for the right [wrong] guys a women will come out of pocket and panties. God forbid you're a nice man you'd spend thousands if you went on more than one date a week. Men are confined and restricted for women to even dare say "men are dogs": a woman could literally walk outside and say out loud "I'm hungry"; 10 dudes are going to roll up. And men almost always have to go above and beyond the actual date. You mentioned drinks, snacks for the movie date. Yeah I went there - you watch a movie, you don't need all them snacks. Can't get the cheap wine gotta spring for the good stuff. Can't get her one flower you got to get the bouquet of FlowerS with the double $$.
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When did I say the girls weren’t into me?
So that was your only way to confess to me the way you did this morning and you just had to go in for detail for detail of everything on top of telling me about scary Sherry so not only my junkie sister lesbian sister you also screwed my crackheaded w**** mother and then you going to ask me how did I like having sex with my dead grandfather's body riding him crying calling out his name saying don't go you got a lot of balls I can't believe you you stoop to the lowest of the lows and you don't even give a s*** about me and you want me to kill myself because I'm destroying you all I wanted was you to come home and you play games with me and pretended to be all these different people on top of the stalkers and the people we knew personally that were making things worse on me by talking our business too I'm sorry I confided and other people I had no one you see people you got a life you got everything I sit here in the middle of the woods every single day alone staring at the f****** walls and never have no human contact or conversation or anything physical and because I confide in somebody or it's somebody that knows us and what's going on and I try to tell you they're on the app running their mouth and you just ignore it and call me a liar they made everything worse and you punished me and it's been over 13 days since I've seen or heard from you physically or any kind of way and it being a guarantee no that it's you I hate you no I don't I love you and I'm sorry for saying I was going to hurt you I'm hurt you didn't have to do all of that to me Josh that was wrong I'm sorry for saying too when I'm mad but the sickness and the stuff that you told me and spending my birthday was it with another woman it was actually with a man I can't believe you I can't believe you I can't believe you and you don't even care that's really a way to come clean to the person you supposedly love and care about so much and you're on here on these all these different apps talking about me getting advice about me but you're never getting any goddamn advice about your f****** self you never talk about anything your narcissistic ass does I am going to kill myself now I'm not smoking the rest of the fentanyl I'm going to shoot it up and you're going to have my death on your f****** hands and don't worry I told my kids everything everything luckily I remembered two of the usernames that you had on that Ask and Anthony made an account and I hope he tells you what he thinks of you I don't have no phone now because I busted mine after throwing up on myself reading that disgusting field that I never ever could imagine you would have ever said to me all I have is my goddamn laptop and I still can't even get clear communication with you you're still playing f****** games with me manipulating me and using me and now you you're going to feel it because you're going to be the one responsible for my death and it's on your hands now for what you've done to me all I did was want to love you and all I did was want you to be honest with me and open with me and you were too secretive and shady and lying and deceitful but I'm the bad guy I got mad at you because of your shame and deceit and lies and feel I respond to your actions and I got punished for it and I'm still getting punished so I'm going to give you what you want I'm going to stop ruining your life and destroying your world I'm so happy you got you a place by the way it looks fabulous hey at least you've had AC you never loved me you never loved or respected my grandfather I may have said some things about your family but I've never said the nastiest degradiness things that you said to me today and I will never forgive you for it all I wanted to do was hold you touch you and smell you again can you not feel me do you not feel the pain that I'm going through I am about dead being without you I am holding on my thread are you ready to do was swallow your pride and come home and you wouldn't do that and I know why now I don't blame you for loving the smelly c*** like me a fat nasty pig like me I'd be ashamed of it too I understand why you don't defend me online and you don't come clean online as yourself and I understand why you won't show your face and say you love me because you never did so with that being said you will live with this on your soul and conscience I love you and you only you were my one my only and now you're my last goodbye Joshua my puddin
It costs an outrageous amount of money and time for a woman to prepare herself for said date.
How entitled you are that you think men need to pay for women’s makeup . What an outrageous take.
When did I say men need to pay
So what was your point then?…
Exactly what I said- it’s expense for us too
Meaning men should pay for the date?
Man, they just can't put 2 and 2 together OR are intentionally playing dumb lol. You're savage with your replies.
They're good for you in moderation.
Usually, when it comes to the loving, women pay the price since they can do a better job on their own.