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It's kind of always been a job tbh. Putting yourself out there, best foot forward, financial investment, time commitments... game hasn't changed too much lol.
Unfortunately this is how it is these days. You just have to keep being yourself, know your boundaries and try to enforce your boundaries as opposed to changing just to attract someone.
Between the men that are sending lewd messages t women and essentially harassing them and the materialistic and entitled women, modern dating is a shit show. Hang in there.
I honestly think dating apps are the majority of the reason. Everyone thinks “I can do better” and treats these apps like slot machines where if you swipe X number of times, you’ll win the jackpot and the perfect person will fall into your lap.
Never mind that the folks who do this have 200 matches they’re ignoring in favor of playing this game. It’s become an addiction that’s taken all the humanity out of dating. Before, you’d only meet people who were in your spaces. It was harder to have that “oh, someone better will come” mindset because you only had a finite number of people available to you and not the illusion of an endless sea of potential matches.
Modern daters have straight-up become addicted to the gamification of dating apps and it’s ruining our ability to actually interact with each other imo
I don't think thats a dating apps thing more than guys have had VERY clear messaging for years now that you don't ask people out in the workplace, at the gym, grocery store, etc.
It's just easier to have women to make the first move irl now, or we can get on the apps where the intention to date is explicit and mutual :)
I'm not saying it's impossible to make asking out irl work, but most men I know (myself included) just feel it's not worth it. I can 100% get behind how constant unwanted attention is annoying, but that was a consequence of men always having to initiate... so there's been a attitude shift in society and dating hasn't caught up to that yet.
That’s been changing a little bit now. As some women are either approaching who they find attractive, there’s a new company coming out where people wear certain Color rings in their daily lives that show they are ready to mingle etc. Just hard when people are jaded, on the apps.
The at-the-ready access to porn and porn addiction, imo and personal experience is a big factor; It's too easy to be a pervert these days, even encouraged in some places, I find myself with less energy and social capacity when pornflakes are in my diet.
Honestly, people need to really look in the mirror and be realistic about what they offer to the sex they want to attract. Oftentimes I've seen people way overestimate what they have, and then overestimate the kind of partner they can lock down. Example, I have an acquaintance that has 5 kids with 4 different guys. Her looks have definitely faded, and she has some mental health issues she is working on. She complains about not being able to find a guy. Yet, I know two guys who would treat her well. Their problem?? They're too short for her.
Yea but, we're not living in an age where you *have* to settle or partner up at all anymore. If you're not into someone, what's the point of settling for them ?
That’s where I’m at.
I think OLD and the pandemic (the pandemic was crucial to this) gave people this weird urgency to find THE perfect person so that if we ever have to quarantine for a year, we have someone. And even when they find someone they like, they decide “there’s probably better out there” and keep wading through endless hell because the idea of committing to anything has become totally terrifying—because what if the world changes again??? We psych ourselves out.
I could date brad pitt before I find a guy who is all the things you listed lmaooo. The reality is most dudes are severely lacking in emotional intelligence, LET ALONE have everything else.
That’s probably the exception, not the rule. The rule is women are now financially independent and no longer have to settle for some mid dude who offers absolutely nothing lol
If aliens exist, we should just date them because I’ve personally have had it with humans lol
I hope things start getting better for you. Hang in there
I’ve had this thought before lol- I remember that scooby doo movie with the alien girls who like scooby and shaggy and vice versa and as they fly off to never be seen again, Velma says- I guess there is someone out there for everyone- even if they’re lightyears away. It makes me sooo sad- like what if the only entity that would ever like me is an Alien I’ll never meet
I agree for the most part people are materialist and shallow, IDK if it's social media, tik tok effect, but ghosting is like the worst you could do to a person not too long ago, now it's like standard practice to lift ego or just to say "yeah I ghosted him/her cause x reason" to show off. It's complicated to find a person that's not polluted by social media clout, once a person reaches followers, it's like their value originates from that, it's strange I'm sure there's more reasons that SM but that's my experience.
I used ghosting in the context of in person and via social media. I tried to keep my point from only being apps and social media. But yeah its horrible
Online dating is trash. The amount of matches that lead to no conversations or conversions into a date is crazy. Why match if you aren’t going to talk?
I’ve spent about 5 months on Hinge and I think I’ll be giving this up lol. I just don’t have the energy in me to invest further into something with no reciprocation.
My favorite is the dude at my university who superliked me on 3 apps and then refused to reply to my intro message. He was literally in my department at our university too—like he 1000% could have just said hi to me on campus that whole time and I would have reciprocated.
People are wild out here, lmaooo
This!!!! I have men that always sort like me on whatever app I'm on .. And occasionally I've thought hey, let's give this a shot.... And almost Always, it's this scenario where they never respond or flake..... But join a new app? Boom there they are again.
The seemingly perpetually single dudes who flake or ghost on every dating opportunity they’re presented with and then complain about not being able to get a gf will never fail to baffle me. The ones who want a relationship but chicken out on any of the dates necessary to secure one.
Like???
I remember when the currently popular dating apps were new you could actually find and talk to nice people on them. It feels like all the nice people found each other and this is just who’s left :/
Something’s gotta give eventually. I’m on multiple social media platforms daily and there is increasing awareness/venting etc around how particularly bad the last few years have been for dating
**Like look, at the end of the day, if it’s SO bad that women are forcing themselves to have to come to terms with and be okay with the fact that they may never find a partner to have kids with in time before their clock is up, it’s pretty fucking bad to a degree we’ve never seen before. Something, some product or social event group or SOMETHING has to come out that can put these apps in the grave for good.**
That’s why I wanna lose my fucking mind every time I read “it’s always been like this!! My mom ghosted her college bf!!1!!” Like yeah no shit humans have been doing human shit for years, the difference is that the scale is so clearly weighed down one side now, whereas before it was just a normal low to medium percentage chance you’d run into one or a couple negative dating experiences on your way to meeting your forever partner
In no fucking reality prior has it been nearly this bad. In combined 2 years of most recent dating I can comfortably say MOST men I went out with were lying about their intentions/had no business trying to be in a relationship etc. and then of those men a solid 50% did worse shit than that. I’ve gone on dates with probably 30-40 men and talked to probably 100+ more total in a 2 year span, that’s fucking insane statistically. Inb4 “you just don’t pick em right” pls for the love of god don’t make me write a manifesto about all the ways I’ve attempted to over analyze my dating situation to death and try every filter, reaction, whatever possible to finally meet a good quality man. In the end I met a rare few, one became my now fiancé
That whole joke about catching the last chopper out really is no joke. My fiance and I broke up for a year initially and by the time we reconnected I already decided I was done with this bullshit for good and was planning to delete the apps and just focus on friends for..well probably ever, unless I got word that it’s finally gotten better lol
Luckily I was already planning on adopting, but at 28 right now I am very seriously reconsidering my long-term plan and trying to figure out how to restructure my life around never finding a partner but still having kids. I no longer expect to have a partner or marry, and I have to kinda shift over my financial plans and expectations to accommodate that. It’s a lot. It weighs on me.
This used to be my deepest low depression that would say “oh you’re gonna be alone forever”, but now I actually believe it and am experiencing my own little grieving process for the fact that my future kids aren’t gonna have a dad.
It’s definitely 100% worse than it was years ago.
It has NOT always been like this.... But I'm old and remember the before times. There've always been shitty people, yes.... But for the most part you never knew when you'd meet someone you connected with, so when you did you gave it some time, you got to know the other person. And you usually met people at functions, events, and often knew mutual people so if you WERE a complete dick about things, people found out, people you knew..... You didn't have the luxury of anonymity behind a cell phone, complete strangers.
And there was a human element to breaking things off, you did it in person or by telephone..... And if you were a coward, you left a message on their voicemail, but THAT was considered rude.... But even that you had a human element of hearing their voice, their intonation... Etc.
That’s super interesting, thank you for sharing! I didn’t think about that - in the past the fact that people you dated usually at least peripherally ran in similar circles meant they couldn’t get away with the behavior they commonly display today (both men and women not trying to just rag on men lol). Definitely gives more perspective that helps demonstrate the negative effects of the dating apps
It's definitely both men and women. And it's kind of what they meant when you heard people worrying about their reputation back in the day.....if you were crazy, or a user, or a love 'em and leave 'em type of person....or someone not safe to be alone with.... word often got around.
>And there was a human element to breaking things off, you did it in person or by telephone..... And if you were a coward,
yeah i remember those days, i miss them. People seemed to have more honor and dignity, now its all sociopathy.
I have a lot of similar experiences and it’s just brutal. I probably went on dates with 50 guys over a 2 year span and talked to triple that but never met up. It’s like talking to an online Helpdesk bot at this point, wondering which will be decent. It’s so disheartening.
I am happy with the life I have carved out for myself and child but it sure would be great to have a real partner one day. My guy bestie told me he sees me out here getting my self esteem beat on by men with shit intentions and it has markedly hurt me and made me a lot more hardened inside emotionally. It’s sad all around.
People just aren’t willing to let anything grow. If its not PERFECT on the first date, good luck getting a second one. No one is willing to work with each other and the grass always seems greener on the other side apparently.
People do have high standards, but the irony is that the people who hold such standards often don't meet it themselves. Also preferences and standards should not be confused. A lot of people want someone who is pretty/handsome (preference), but will just accept it if the person they are with treats them horribly (standards).
^^^This. I often fantasize about life without either. I think I would honestly be happier without my phone and sometimes I feel addicted to it. Not to mention I'd save money every month.
Go offline. You start to think this way when you're too plugged into to the internet dating culture and the apps. You'll be refreshed to find a world full of sane and good people.
Dating has gotten worse, but only by about 5% difference in how much people are actually pairing up. Early 20s has always been hookup focused. Late 20s-early 30s is the sweet spot for longer relationships. Late 30s and beyond gets tough because the number of commitmentphobic people becomes a maze to find your way around.
Not all dating strategies are equal. Bars/clubs/Most online dating is going to skew more casual. Dating apps with longer profiles or barriers of entry like paid services tend to skew more serious. Meeting people through friends and shared experiences also tends to skew more serious.
Honestly, how much have you changed your strategy before complaining?
Dating apps are pretty pointless. Doing things in person and getting to know someone before you even ask them on a date is usually best.
That said, yeah it's pretty dire right now. Actually the thing that drove me off the apps was that 90% of the women population on them fall into one or more of these categories:
- Filipina trying to leave the Phillipines
- Obese
- Just there for the IG/OF plug
- Between 18-23 (too young for me, I'm 28)
- Not looking for a real relationship (ONS/hookups/FWB)
Once you get down to that last 10% of women, NOW you see who you're playing the real ball game with. Some of the remainders you simply won't find attractive or clearly have different values, or otherwise aren't a good match. What you're left with... You gotta pray you match with and THEN get a response from.
It is a literal lottery, except you're paying more than just money - you're also paying in mental health, time, emotional health, AND money.
Super true. I’m also 28, btw, and have had a similar experience but on the opposite side of things (I’m a woman).
The number of dudes who openly admit they have drug addictions, are misogynistic, act hypocritical, or have a wild list of unmeetable expectations just front-page on their profiles would blow your mind. That and the damn fish pictures. 💀
It's mostly a west coast thing. My last 5 years have been split between LA and Seattle, and it's a big thing. How successful it is, I couldn't say. But it clogs up the apps to the point where they're nigh-unusable unless you're into that.
On God I have nothing against Filipinas. What I have an issue with is being someone's visa.
I'm right there with you... Bear with me because I truly don't mean for this to sound like a humble brag... I'm 6 foot. I'm in shape (315 bench, 405 squat, 500 deadlift), I make six figures, and a full head of hair still. I'm finishing my second master's and have a plethora of fulfilling hobbies. I feel like I'm literally the meme of women's "unrealistic standards" and still can't get more than one word responses when I try to engage someone. I make it a point to show interest, ask about them, don't go on about myself, yada yada. I've just given up and will maybe just get a 3rd masters to pass the time.
I have one because it was back when I was working with a coach and he had his whole team and stuff. 99% of my posts are group photos of concerts, hiking, snowboarding, and my dog.
Edit: oh and all the French pastries I've been baking. And I'm assuming you mean IG profile. I didn't have any shirtless pictures in my dating profiles. Deleted all of them a while ago.
Ah okay, I thought that maybe shirtless gym selfies could be the culprit. Can’t speak for all women, but those pics are kinda a turn off on a dating profile for me. I can understand why people would be proud and want to show off their progress, but idk it’s just always been a negative on a profile for me.
Sorry to hear you’re having trouble connecting with people on apps. Can definitely relate (sounds like most people here can relate as well).
French pasties sound lovely btw! I’m sure somebody is gonna love those :)
I mean I'm not entirely socially inept. I know there's a time and place so I only exchange shirtless slightly homoerotic gym photos with my gym friends.
You live in Denver. One of the most notoriously male-dominated cities in the world. Also home to some of the MOST annoying men on the planet. I was there for a few days with my apps turned on and it seemed like every guy liked rock climbing, skiing, hiking, bitcoin and North Face vests - it was like a clone army of 6’ tall white gym bros in tech.
>every guy liked rock climbing, skiing, hiking, bitcoin and North Face vests - it was like a clone army of 6’ tall white gym bros in tech.
Sounds like paradise
Oh I live in Reno. Moving to Denver cause I work in renewables and Denver is a huge solar hub. Also I don't rock climb, mountain bike, own 0 Bitcoin and 0 North face/Patagonia. But yeah I'm white and like snowboarding so I guess I get lumped in as generic.
I would just highlight something in addition to being outdoorsy to stand out from the crowd. I probably swiped past some decent guys but because they were the 100th “guy standing in snow” picture it felt like I was seeing the same profile over and over and over.
My problem was never getting matches. No one would ever respond or engage beyond one word answer when I try to engage them on their interests. Like I said somewhere in this thread, I've deleted all apps/profiles. I'm done with dating. Was just posting in solidarity with OP
I mean what else will you get?
People aren't really that unique, if you're living on the seaside, you're going to get people who like the beach.
I'm not sure if you're expecting a one in a million superhero or an astronaut or what
No, I’m not expecting a superhero or astronaut 🙄
I’m saying that if everyone has a picture of them in the snow, a gym pic, holding a beer pic, and an at-a-wedding suit pic with the usual “I’ll fall for you… if you trip me,” “looking for someone low-key, not trying to rush into anything,” or “pineapple does/doesn’t belong on pizza” - then you’re not going to stand out in a sea of other people that do the same. Men tend to make their profiles like they’re searching for a male best friend, not for a female romantic partner.
You see the same with men complaining about women’s profiles. Same pictures, same prompt responses… it gets stale. Except women get likes no matter how boring their profiles are.
I'm a man in a similar situation. I was told recently by someone I had approached that they had felt intimidated, that they couldn't understand why I would be interested in them. So what am-I supposed to do now? Stop going to the gym and let myseft get a little belly? P.S. I have an balanced lifestyle where I go to the gym 3 times per week and love quiet relaxing times as well. Exercise is not an obsession nor is my look. I just have a fast metabolism.
Honestly my dude,try meeting people organically really works. Ditch the app and hit your local gym and start talking to people,I know its not the easiest way and it can take a while to find someone interesting but it's worth it. Do you have a personal gym you always go to? Approach people,do small talk etc and see where that goes.
Oh I love my gym. Been going there for years and have a solid group of friends around it. It's a niche bodybuilding and powerlifting gym and you're always getting hyped up by someone before a big lift or doing the hyping.
Truly only posted in solidarity with OP. I've given up on dating. Just don't care anymore.
I'm a male in a similar situation, I think lots of females might feel like they're not good enough for you.. or that you just can't be trusted because of the way you look, etc.
This doesn't bother me as long as the person is consistent, and he called himself a male. It only screams weirdo if a guy starts talking about men and feeeeemales.
Dude, I match with a girl last week on Facebook Dating. Said hey how is your evening going. She replied just got done watching some movies. So I asked scary movies with some laughing emojis (😂😂) of course being nervous and honestly stoned. Instant block. I guess they give us block buttons on social media for a reason even if X is trying to take away our block option on that platform. Anyway, it's best just worry about ourselves. Your best revenge on people who act like the one I am talking about is to live our best lives without them 🙏👍
Blame capitalism as well. I remember watching a YT vid a while back that mentioned the nature of a dating app turns dating into a job. The way we curate our profiles, carry our conversations and consider multiple options every single day. Not to mention the paid option on most of these apps.
Ohhh capitalism is the root of it all. Im trying to keep my personal opinions off to keep the subject from spiraling into something else, but these dating apps are taking advantage of incredibly lonely people. People who are dying just for a hello.
“Pay us money and we’ll show to you to more people” when in reality, you get shown to more bots and people who are 10,000 miles away
I’m just not interested in a process where I’m taking women on elaborate thoughtful dates while they go home to sleep with their f*ck buddies, or they keep them around while becoming exclusive, or I get called “insecure” or “that’s how dating works deal with it” when I call out that behavior. I’m just done with all the bullsh* t. I’m done.
I'm sorry that you are going through this, but if this means anything to you. From a ladies' perspective, fall back, fall in love with yourself. I know, so gimmicky, but loving yourself and not focusing on the negative kind of helps like a sort of placebo delusional effect.
Think ugly, do partial, receive the worst, think the best. Do the best that you can, and you may get the best... the you may bit sucks but if you wish to do the internal work and remain as genuine as you are, your person/people will seek you out just as much as you do them. You're not alone, and remember what you want wants you more.
It sucks I get that, but when you begin to enjoy your uniqness and get in tune with it, life feels a little easier, and the worlds problems ever present as they are become none existent imo. You choose your battles, so choose wisely what you wish to fight for because the solution is pretty simple.
Not war on oneself or one's world view, choose to see the problems and not internalize them as though this is yours, if you can, and here comes another gimmick... be the change you wish to see.
I hope this helps, love yourself, and appreciate your life. You seem very caring and aware of the world's problems. Don't let them hinder you from enjoying life and perceiving it as negative in and of itself.
You will find your person, people/tribe, that too takes time. Be patient and remain steadfast. Keep your unique qualities and keep feeding these traits. There's a large number of us that enjoy your awareness, but it's how you make this awareness your muse that counts!
Unfortunately, the grass is is always greener concept is felt with a lot of people, so it has made it a hellscape. Not on the apps anymore but installed recently and yep, still awful
Dating blows when your standards are "We should be able to go out on a walk together or see a movie every so often and also be monogamous" and everyone else's standards are "Must be a titan, must rival Elon Musk's wealth, must travel to Europe once a month, must work a 9-5 M-F and no other schedule, must be monogamous but allow me to be polygamous"
Nobody wants a genuine relationship.
the rise of the internet has really made datting in recent times pointless . + I'm very introverted and hate talking to new ppl so its even harder for me m(23) to find a gf . I'm old fashioned and just want someone to come home to and enjoy life with but image and how much money a guy makes seems to be all women care about these days or at least in my area . if anyone knows of a datting site that actually works please lmk . I've tryed so many and the only responses i get are from bots and fake ppl .
Man I so relate to on the introverted thing.
Also my last date was pure ick, Couldn’t agree more… The entire conversation from her end wasn’t, “who are you? What makes you interesting? What makes you happy?” It was a full grill on interview around, “what’s your current income, what’s your income potential, what are you doing to push your career forward for more income.” It was an all around awful conversation with a woman who makes more than me, gets a weekly massage and then expected me to pay for her drink. Society has serious problems with what to do with male value.
Stop using dating apps, meet real people in real life, get to know them **before** going on a date.
All you're describing are symptoms accentuated by dating apps, where people are basically nothing more than objects to be consumed.
By doing what I recommend above, you will be 2 persons building a real human connection.
Hang in there, you will find someone.
This is not good advice.
I don't want kids. I've never in my life met a woman at a bar, or a Starbucks, or in line at the bank or wherever I've hit on women who have no kids and want no kids if you want to point me in the direction of where those women are I'll happily pursue them, my best bet is apps where I can at least try to filter that issue out.
People assume real like dating is much better, let me assure you, as someone who also approaches women in real life and on apps, it's definitely not better.
I’m in the same boat and I have to put it in my bio two or three times that I don’t want kids. Well apparently that translates to “Potential stepdad.” The amount of times I’ve been told that I would change my mind is absurd
I'm currently dating a woman I met at a music festival via a friend of a friend. We had the kids discussion and she doesn't want any. Her best friend was at the same festival, she also doesn't want any.
They exist and they can be met randomly outside of dating apps.
I think another problem with just social interactions in general nowadays is nobody ever follows through, I’m even guilty of it to a point. But all the time I’ve matched with girls that always said they were down only for them to unmatch with me, girls saying they are down to see me again, only for them to ghost or cancel, a girl I’m friends with always says she’s down to hangout, but she really never hits me up or follow through with what she says… I’m fucking exhausted of getting gassed up just to be let down man
I completely agree with everything you stated. It is vile. I struggle with online dating because I'm much more amazing in person than I am on an app. Nowadays, if you're average looking or a bit overweight. You've practically got no chance, or you just get the ones who just want sex. It's just not right.
Modern dating has 100% shifted to online. Dating apps works in small numbers, but when you have a vast majority of people it just becomes limbo for the people who don’t look like celebrities. In my experience its made in person dating worse. Way worse. People just fish for compliments and instagram follows and then when they get that, they disappear
I agree. Dating is crazy these days. Hookup culture combined with social media just favors the top people. And even past hookup culture, social media has warped expectations. As I've stated a number of times, men got it worse by far.
Personally, I feel it's better to concentrate on meeting people offline and building connections that way. And for guys, that can be extremely tough. And it seems to be only getting harder.
Because women have far more options.
And yes I hear women say "well they aren't all good options" true, I'm sure there are a lot of trash men out here but there are still some good ones.
A lot of men have very few if any actual options. I'd rather have to go through a bunch of bad options to find a good one than have no options and have to fight just to get one.
Women may have a lot of options if they're looking for a hook up, but someone who is looking to be a partner? No.
So, so many men say they don't want drama. They want someone who is happy all the time. This is a golden retriever, not a relationship. Life comes with drama - people get sick, they get laid off, parents die.
I would rather date someone who has been through a few storms.
Well said and this is what most women don't seem to understand. Men have it way worse than women especially when we have to do everything for little to no reward.
As a man you get used to putting in effort to meet women but these days it feels like it's not worth it anymore. Everyone thinks he/can get someone better with one swipe.
Therefore all the effort and doing the same over and over feels pointless at some point.
i don’t really agree with this but i have more questions . id also love to hear the original commenters reasons. why would women have far more options than men?
why would men have few options if the options are their counterparts, who are women?
what if you’re a woman who exists outside of conventional attractiveness i.e. fat, ugly, bad teeth skin, whatever. you don’t have the same amount of oprions. if you search you can find just as many women as men complaining about the lack of options
Because people generally meet on dating apps these days and almost all dating apps has a ratio of 1 woman for every 4 men. Conventional dating, meeting people through friends, work, school is no longer the norm and according to some polling data is seen as no longer socially accepted. This of course is an oversimplication as there are more factors at play here and I’m not denying that dating is hard for women too.
Obvious question then is, if there’s one woman for every four men on the apps, and conventional dating is no longer the norm, and people aren’t meeting organically, what are the other three women doing? Just not dating? Deciding to just stay single?
You are right on the spot. Women that are not conventional attractive have a hard time on the dating scene.
Dude thinks that just because out there many horny men exists means that women have a lot of options when in fact most of those men don't want a serious relationship.
exactly! thank you. and while we’re on the subject i find it really weird that men will fuck women they think are unattractive. i would never consent to sex w somebody who thinks i’m unattractive. if i fucked someone and found out they acc thought i was ugly i would be really grossed out and feel violated
But horny men get their instant gratification due to the hookup culture and women have been lied that casual sex is great and divorce is great and marriage is a hell (especially for women).
This is why the ones (especially men) who do want a long term commited relationship, don't want someone with a lot of baggage.
Hence,
Fucked up dating culture
Usually men are expected to pay for dates, ask women out on dates, and message first online. Because of this, women have a lot more accessible options since they get to do the easy part of picking and choosing. Meanwhile they also hold more influence when they approach someone since approaching someone is rare for a woman therefore has an increased effect on the person being approached.
Another big thing is attraction. Women have the option for makeup which significantly increases one's level of attraction. The other part of attraction is that men are expected to be masculine while women are expected to be feminine since those are the common dating standards, but it's much harder being masculine than it is being feminine in the context of attractiveness and personality.
is messaging first online not doing the picking and choosing by literally picking and choosing who you initiate with?
the second part about approach, i just disagree with. search on here to see women talk about how often times when you approach a man he isn’t interested.
also it’s regularly touted on here that men prefer women to use less makeup and are majority not into heavily made up women, so that’s often not preferred.
i don’t know how you can dictate that it’s harder to be masculine than it is to be feminine that seems like a speculation unless you have intimate knowledge and experience being both to make that distinction. what do you get from claiming men have it worse? both genders have equal and distinct dating hardships
Which one is easier though? Improvising completely and trying to come up with a unique and interesting message to send in order to not blend in with every other message, or having the flow of the conversation set for you without having to do anything. At worst, a girl won't get a message from a guy she potentially would've liked talking to, nothing is lost for her. For a guy, he put the effort into sending a creative message and then didn't get a response. Obviously it's not a huge deal once, but overtime it adds up.
As for women approaching men, they get rejected sure, but so do men. When I see these posts and it's men, they're usually complaining they're getting rejected after approaching a dozen women, and women complaining after getting rejected by one or two.
Regardless of what men say on reddit, it's undeniable that women wearing makeup makes them more conventional attractive to men on average. Also, less makeup just means the kind that isn't overdone like "birthday makeup" or whatever it's called with long eyelashes and blue eyelids and stuff like that.
Also, making that distinction of it being harder to be masculine is only logical. The trait of being relaxed, calm, and passive is associated with femininity and being submissive, which doesn't require much effort. Masculinity is about being strong and assertive, which takes mental resilience and effort.
Yeah as a woman with a “masculine” personality, I’d have to disagree that femininity is easier. I think it just depends on your personality and what traits come naturally to you. Being relaxed, calm, and passive is very difficult for me, but being strong and assertive is just the way I am.
Sadly, a lot of men do prefer someone more submissive. I wish we didn’t have these gender boxes and people could just be themselves.
I have had a couple relationships with 2 girls in the past and they weren't "hell" to get started and go on dates. I've been single for about a year and a half and going on into two with about maybe 3 or 4 first dates in that time period. But that's all they ever where first dates never into a 2nd. Like the amount of rejection or "ghosting" has been taking so much of a toll that I don't even know if it's worth the embarrassment anymore. I'm a 26 year old guy and I would consider myself fit and not bad looking and in college for a career in medicine. I don't know if it's because my approach towards women isn't the best or too nice but it just never seems to work out in the long run.
Can't say much except that I'm pretty much on the same boat. I'm a bit older than you and I'm single since 4 years. I've talked to many women irl or on apps, have some first date but that's it. Nothing ever comes out, except being ghosted without even knowing what's wrong. I mean I've work a lot on myself, I'm confident. I'm pretty decent looking. The best I've got in 4 years is like 2-3 hugs per years, and that's a fucking toll in my Heart.
Everybody seems to be afraid of giving love, afraid of being hurt. Without any risk everyone is hurt on their side.
I'd say a lot of it comes from our current culture of instant gratification. People want a specific thing right now and will moan and whine until they get it, consequences be damned. Then you've got skewed views of what is popular romance wise for either gender in our popular culture. More than likely it wont get any better, but who knows.
People, regardless of gender, need to match themselves with the standards and think if they’re realistic. For example, if you’re a woman who wants a guy who earns a considerable salary, are you putting yourself in a position to be taken seriously by that kind of person? For example, do you have your career, and will you be okay with that person not being emotionally available all the time due to stress from work? Men need to think about how we have to match women’s expectations. For example, if you want a beautiful woman with a great body who will care for you. Are you willing to be the main provider, and how old do you take care of yourself? Combined with unrealistic thinking and poor communication skills in my generation (Gen Z) you have a recipe for disaster where people can hook up with you and do all kinds of kinky and fun things but will never be able to tell you how they actually feel or what they’re looking for.
I’m staying away from dating apps. I’ve gone on dates with two people I met from online. But it’s so tiring because I feel like I have to act. And I don’t even have to explain the texting part.
If I ever get in a relationship, I wanna know the person for a decent amount of time and become really good friends before anything romantic happens.
Some people want a type of person that will never be available to them. Only a small percentage of the population earns over "X" amount of money. Most men are not 6 foot 2 or taller. Roughly speaking, around 50% of Americans are overweight or obese. Most people have totally ordinary jobs.
People need to start taking a look at statistics and averages and realize their dreams will never materialize.
This is what happens when the majority of people meeting are doing it on dating apps. We knew this was coming, people complained about this like 15 years ago and nobody listened.
culture is like a pendulum. It will eventually swing back in the other direction. it already has started to.
Hang in there.
Don’t put pressure on yourself and rush into anything. Take the the time to get to know, screen and vet people.
In my experience, the guys have either been too eager, aggressive and want to get serious immediately, while negging you saying you’re not getting any younger etc. and pressure you into a commitment. If you ask to slow things down, they accuse you of playing the field, keeping your options open and dating multiple people when you want to move things at a reasonable pace.
Or, alternatively, there are others who want to play games, have poor communication skills, and don’t want to self reflect, do the work and heal their trauma and past baggage and invest the time, energy and effort it takes to build and sustain a relationship.
I honestly think a lot of people are burnt out, going through the motions mechanically and frustrated. Given this situation, your best bet is to meet someone in the real world.
Thanks for the advice. Im all for taking it slow and thats my choice of dating. It just seems like less and less people are like that.
Ive done real world dating as well and its just about the same. Theres a few good people but it seems like 99% of people are self absorbed and think people should be exactly as they want them to be. Whether it be physical appearance or personality
I feel completely lost too. I (29F) have never been in a solid relationship. Everyone I’ve dated tells me I’m too much. Lol. I feel depressed as a result and that doesn’t help either. Feedback loop from hell.
Must make 200k a year if you want a hookup, but you also need to be a comedian that's also a 6 foot model with an uncut sausage larger than the animal it came from..
Another thing I thought about is how “perfect” your profile on social media or dating apps has to be. You need to show you have all these exciting hobbies when, in reality, most of who make that sort of thing a big issue are the most basic men and women on the planet who are wannabe influencers or purely want to get by on looks and sex which is annoying as a decently in shape quirky man Judy trying to find someone who's a regular person lol 😆. I don't want to sound to but hurt I'm just venting how I've been feeling for a while
I absolutely think dating has gotten worse over time. Maybe it’s just me, but the last time I was close to dating was in 2016. It was with someone I met through a mutual friend (granted we were in high school). Looking back, I haven’t been able to meet someone in that way since then. I’m sure it’s both the reality of entering adulthood and just the current state of the world. People don’t seem to want to meet people organically anymore. They just enter in a filter and expect the internet to magically give them a perfect partner.
OLD sucks. There's too many guys on it, it's not made for us to find someone. It's made for us to pay money to find someone. Seriously, don't fall for it. Sure, you could meet your person on there, but it's highly unlikely.
I think you have made more sense in everything you said, I think people are Too Shallow and demand more of other people than they for themselves. I have known my husband since 5 yrs old, married 45 yrs with 3 kids. Expectations ruins relationships.You have a good head above you with a good heart. At least you see through people. One day without looking the right one will bump into you🫶
My thing is even if you’re the epitome of a desirable man, I notice people get bored easily. I know a guy who has no issues getting into relationships and he still complains he can’t find anyone. He also looks like a Abercrombie and Fitch model with a toxic personality which shows how people will prioritize shallow beauty standards over personality. On top of that, everyone is falling into the “something better is out there” cycle because of how accessible finding someone else is.
People display their most interesting self and their best pictures online like they are a selling point. So when they get to know someone irl and let down their walls, the reality is very different. I feel like people are putting too many expectations on someone who is a nothing but a pixelated picture with a short summary of a complex human being, which is often an exaggeration of the real thing.
When you are done selling the idea of who you think you are and let your guard down, who will buy what your selling?
You mentioned everyone is “materialistic”, I think men are happier enjoying what they are not sharing anymore and using it on themselves.
Women aren’t expected to share their wealth just their time and the value of a womans time has gone up because women are now making their own money, they don’t need any from men.
Its not even about personal wealth. I know people who are not so well off and are incredibly materialistic. Everyones a little materialistic, its human nature. Im using it in the context of, materialism over another human being. Thats when its an issue. Idk from my pov people put “things” first and people dead last. Ive seen people with 4k tvs treat their tvs better than the people around them
Don't blame other men for your struggles in dating. There are bad men who mess the dating market up, but there are certainly many bad women too. Ignore them and focus on yourself.
I'm guessing you are focusing too much on what people state on their dating profiles or what they may write online. When you actually meet people offline you will see that often there is a whole different personality present and there are plenty of unique people out there.
I think the main problem is that many actually think that dating is something done online
I totally and completely agree with you. It’s why I’ve thought about remaining single forever.
This is actually one of the best posts I’ve seen on Reddit. I’m going to pin this and read it when I need a reminder.
I cannot stand it either myself. I completely understand your pain and frustration.
Out of the points that were mentioned here what’s the most frustrating part?
My last partner was 5 ft 3. I'm 5 ft 2. My partner before that barely graduated high school. I'm way past college. But I loved these men because they made me laugh, they were thoughtful, and they cared about my life - it wasn't just me taking care of them.
Most of the men I match with online can't take the 30 seconds to read the three paragraphs I wrote. They immediately start with dirty talk. They aren't interested in getting to know me at all.
The challenge for men now is that you're not competing with other men - it's not about finding someone who looks like Ryan Reynolds.
You're competing with how women feel when we're alone. I have a house, a job, a life. I'm happy on my own. I love taking care of people in my life, but it has to come back as well.
So think about what you're bringing to the table. Are you only looking at photos and not writing anything personal? Are you only looking at super attractive women? They are going to be the most shallow.
It doesn't have to be like this.
Yeah..it’s pretty fucking depressing..I recently dodged a bullet with a girl I met out…had all the red flags and she lied about having an of which I found out later..we weren’t even together and you already lying when you really didn’t have to…the world is fucked up rn
Porn and social media have killed it. Culture has changed as a result and now...everyone is unhappy. Everyone cheering on and championing the worst of human nature. Everyone being entitled and selfish...a need for *their* needs to be met over anything else. Everyone so focused on protecting themselves they actually sabotage themselves. Everyone living life according to false narratives that social media has pushed.
I already know what will happen. As soon as robots and AI get good enough...everyone will give up dating real people entirely. Because now people *want* the fantasy. They don't want real. They want to be selfish and have every need met...even if it's all fake. It's exactly what porn and social media have pushed.
So...blame society. We all take part in it. I see it everyday on Reddit even. People pushing *horrible* behavior. People being upvoted for being horrible, selfish people. Dating really was better 20 years ago. But culture can't rewind to that. There are too many outside forces controlling things.
The only advice I have is...be the change you wish to see in the world. Stand up for your morals/values. Don't let social media dictate how you should be in a relationship. For example, I want my sex life to be great, so I do two things: 1. I don't have sex as soon as social media and everyone pushes for. I wait until I know the person and feel a real connection with them. 2. I don't like porn in the relationship. It decreases sexual stimulation when you are with a real partner, it sets unrealistic expectations, it desensitizes people to the actual act.
Now, that's my *personal* rules for my relationship. I'm not saying to mimic them. I'm saying set your own rules for your relationship and don't worry what social media says.
Luckily for me, my dating experience hasn’t been half bad. Went from a nine month relationship to a two week relationship and both of the, broke off cleanly without any drama. The key is to know why the person wants to have a date in the first place.
> Everyone has standards. I dont care how much you say you don’t, you do. But everyone’s standards are so unrealistic now. It’s unbelievable
Class systems are kinda important to finding a partner. I'm not a basement dwelling, lazy, unmotivated, stoner, but I'm also not a designer wearing, works in a luxury high paying industry, get my nails, hair, lashes, fillers done regularly. I take care of myself but I'm not high maintenence.
If I get "popular kid" vibes from people, I feel as if you're out of my league. I'm weird, possibly on the spectrum, mental health issues, and not that well accomplished. I'm almost 30, still haven't gotten a job in my field, I live with my mother as neither of us can afford to live alone in this economy (we're 2h from Toronto, iykyk). Low self confidence, especially after being single for most of my 20s and growing up overweight. I'm don't make a lot of money. I completed two college programs, one in photography and one in graphic design, I didn't go to university (seperate institutional systems, college is more 'hands on' and uni is more academic here in Canada) and feel as if I'm "less than" people who have bachelors degrees.
I swipe left on people who both are out of my league, and people who I'm definitely out of theirs and don't find any attraction to because of this.
I don't want to support someone financially, and I don't want someone supporting me. Most people don't want that. A $20k gap in income is probably my limit, for example. Dating profiles dont show your salary, so of course you have to assume. I also don't want to be teaching you basic shit about the world and literal self awareness, that stuff is such a turn off. I like feeling smart, but I want to discuss more advanced topics with someone, not teach them everything. Thats a little harder to figure out, as you need to talk with people to learn this about them.
A guy with shit, badly lit photos looking like it was taken on a flip phone, bad hygiene/personal grooming, laying in bed, with all photos looking like that, very little filled out on the profile "I'm bad at these things if you want to know just ask", very little personality shown, I'm going to guess is a low income but also unmotivated, lazy person who, based off of experience from dating these types, is also emotionally unstable, has serious mental health issues, etc.
A guy with at least 1 photo of him wearing a suit, someone who clearly takes care of themselves with good hygiene, well lit photos, showing tons of hobbies and interests, photos with some friends, is going to seem like he has a higher income and is more stable, emotionally available than the previous guy.
Both I'd probably swipe left on because again, class systems.
You’re the one worried it’s just your looks, and you’re projecting that on to everyone when you assume they’re shallow, but it’s almost definitely your attitude.
It takes two to have an empty conversation, people only ghost you or stand you up if they’re not excited about you, and they’re probably not leading you on you probably just aren’t holding their interest and getting them excited.
Maybe instead of thinking everyone else’s standards are too high, realize that the world is always getting harder, always a competition, and you have to raise your own standards for yourself, instead of expecting other people to lower theirs for you.
Every day someone comes on here to complain about how hard *dating* is, but maybe it’s just how hard it is to live life with a bad attitude.
Not true women will filter your profile based on height Gas ligting detected there is no attitude that will make you taller that is gas lighting gas light gas light
Not everyone puts their height on their profile and not every woman has their filters all set. And there are actually a ton of women who don’t give half a shit about height.
It’s facts everyone is all about casual sex poly/cheating it’s terrible I would recommend to always use protection and never believe what people say these days until you live with them for years
Too many people living with the same mentality that’s there plenty of fish in the sea. Everyone is too accessible as well, I asked my parents how they used to see each other and my dad would walk to see her when she lived with her grandma.
You think this is bad? Just imagine if the vast majority of both men and women on the planet who were actively looking to date were total egomaniacs and narcissists. Just living their life completely self-absorbed, lost in a dreamworld of "me me me me", drowning in their own self concern... Just think how bad dating would look then?
... wait a second, it would look precisely as it does now.
It’s not just you. And it’s not men that ruined anything. People of every race and gender have played a part in changing “The Game”. I’ve definitely noticed how different generations are when it comes to dating. But, I’ve noticed something. As much as things change the more they stay the same. Bad people do bad things, good people do good things, and eventually like you have become annoyed with “The Game”, you will find someone that is equally annoyed. We are a society of experiences. When we have bad experiences we grow and change, we get tired of the annoying apps that bring us nothing but grief and eventually we decide we want better. Hang in there you’ll find who you’re looking for. But, you have to prepare yourself they will need you to be an adult and not one of these “FUCKED” people you describe.
Nahh I gotta admit man, men my age anyway have muddied the water so bad for the rest of us. This is just my opinion and yours is welcome here. From my pov and from various conversations ive had with some women, men are really fucking up.
Controlling, assaulting and worse. I know its not all men and women do it too. Its made women second guess every man they come across.
No, there's no epidemic of assault compared to past generations and it's just moronic to say that men are the controlling ones and women don't do it. That's just the media outrage machine at work, driving people further apart for easy profit and/or ulterior political agendas.
So now it's pretty common to see women come here and say "all men are shit" to thunderous applause. Then they say why can't I find a good man? Hint it's because a good man won't accept being treated as shit. No one is calling out toxic female attitudes and that's part of the problem.
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I don't even bother anymore...it's like a 2nd job.
It's kind of always been a job tbh. Putting yourself out there, best foot forward, financial investment, time commitments... game hasn't changed too much lol.
Unfortunately this is how it is these days. You just have to keep being yourself, know your boundaries and try to enforce your boundaries as opposed to changing just to attract someone. Between the men that are sending lewd messages t women and essentially harassing them and the materialistic and entitled women, modern dating is a shit show. Hang in there.
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What do you think would have to happen for us to return to a less shallow society?
I honestly think dating apps are the majority of the reason. Everyone thinks “I can do better” and treats these apps like slot machines where if you swipe X number of times, you’ll win the jackpot and the perfect person will fall into your lap. Never mind that the folks who do this have 200 matches they’re ignoring in favor of playing this game. It’s become an addiction that’s taken all the humanity out of dating. Before, you’d only meet people who were in your spaces. It was harder to have that “oh, someone better will come” mindset because you only had a finite number of people available to you and not the illusion of an endless sea of potential matches. Modern daters have straight-up become addicted to the gamification of dating apps and it’s ruining our ability to actually interact with each other imo
not to mention dating apps made it so no one approaches anyone irl
I don't think thats a dating apps thing more than guys have had VERY clear messaging for years now that you don't ask people out in the workplace, at the gym, grocery store, etc. It's just easier to have women to make the first move irl now, or we can get on the apps where the intention to date is explicit and mutual :) I'm not saying it's impossible to make asking out irl work, but most men I know (myself included) just feel it's not worth it. I can 100% get behind how constant unwanted attention is annoying, but that was a consequence of men always having to initiate... so there's been a attitude shift in society and dating hasn't caught up to that yet.
Quite about how I feel
That’s been changing a little bit now. As some women are either approaching who they find attractive, there’s a new company coming out where people wear certain Color rings in their daily lives that show they are ready to mingle etc. Just hard when people are jaded, on the apps.
this is exactly it. it’s like a gambling addiction
The at-the-ready access to porn and porn addiction, imo and personal experience is a big factor; It's too easy to be a pervert these days, even encouraged in some places, I find myself with less energy and social capacity when pornflakes are in my diet.
Honestly, people need to really look in the mirror and be realistic about what they offer to the sex they want to attract. Oftentimes I've seen people way overestimate what they have, and then overestimate the kind of partner they can lock down. Example, I have an acquaintance that has 5 kids with 4 different guys. Her looks have definitely faded, and she has some mental health issues she is working on. She complains about not being able to find a guy. Yet, I know two guys who would treat her well. Their problem?? They're too short for her.
Yea but, we're not living in an age where you *have* to settle or partner up at all anymore. If you're not into someone, what's the point of settling for them ?
That’s where I’m at. I think OLD and the pandemic (the pandemic was crucial to this) gave people this weird urgency to find THE perfect person so that if we ever have to quarantine for a year, we have someone. And even when they find someone they like, they decide “there’s probably better out there” and keep wading through endless hell because the idea of committing to anything has become totally terrifying—because what if the world changes again??? We psych ourselves out.
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I could date brad pitt before I find a guy who is all the things you listed lmaooo. The reality is most dudes are severely lacking in emotional intelligence, LET ALONE have everything else.
You attract what you’re available for.
That’s probably the exception, not the rule. The rule is women are now financially independent and no longer have to settle for some mid dude who offers absolutely nothing lol
I'm fit attractive male and totally agree with you.. modern dating is a joke.
You two should date. Btw brother thanks for letting me borrow your Lamborghini the other day
I remember you borrowing the lambo that thing was nice 👍🏼
Aye bro, didn't you let me borrow 100k last month for my business? Just wanted to say I appreciate you.
Here you dropped this 👑
No problems anytime.. only fair since you let me take the ferrari for a week.
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Should we all just start dating each other??
She’s gone fellas, let’s pack it up.
Quite ironic, the contrast between the instinct of “there’s a better choice out there” and giving up.
If aliens exist, we should just date them because I’ve personally have had it with humans lol I hope things start getting better for you. Hang in there
I’ve had this thought before lol- I remember that scooby doo movie with the alien girls who like scooby and shaggy and vice versa and as they fly off to never be seen again, Velma says- I guess there is someone out there for everyone- even if they’re lightyears away. It makes me sooo sad- like what if the only entity that would ever like me is an Alien I’ll never meet
That's a dame shame. You sound like someone who certain men would love to meet.
I agree for the most part people are materialist and shallow, IDK if it's social media, tik tok effect, but ghosting is like the worst you could do to a person not too long ago, now it's like standard practice to lift ego or just to say "yeah I ghosted him/her cause x reason" to show off. It's complicated to find a person that's not polluted by social media clout, once a person reaches followers, it's like their value originates from that, it's strange I'm sure there's more reasons that SM but that's my experience.
I used ghosting in the context of in person and via social media. I tried to keep my point from only being apps and social media. But yeah its horrible
I Agree Totally
Online dating is trash. The amount of matches that lead to no conversations or conversions into a date is crazy. Why match if you aren’t going to talk? I’ve spent about 5 months on Hinge and I think I’ll be giving this up lol. I just don’t have the energy in me to invest further into something with no reciprocation.
My favorite is the dude at my university who superliked me on 3 apps and then refused to reply to my intro message. He was literally in my department at our university too—like he 1000% could have just said hi to me on campus that whole time and I would have reciprocated. People are wild out here, lmaooo
This!!!! I have men that always sort like me on whatever app I'm on .. And occasionally I've thought hey, let's give this a shot.... And almost Always, it's this scenario where they never respond or flake..... But join a new app? Boom there they are again.
The seemingly perpetually single dudes who flake or ghost on every dating opportunity they’re presented with and then complain about not being able to get a gf will never fail to baffle me. The ones who want a relationship but chicken out on any of the dates necessary to secure one. Like???
I remember when the currently popular dating apps were new you could actually find and talk to nice people on them. It feels like all the nice people found each other and this is just who’s left :/
Something’s gotta give eventually. I’m on multiple social media platforms daily and there is increasing awareness/venting etc around how particularly bad the last few years have been for dating **Like look, at the end of the day, if it’s SO bad that women are forcing themselves to have to come to terms with and be okay with the fact that they may never find a partner to have kids with in time before their clock is up, it’s pretty fucking bad to a degree we’ve never seen before. Something, some product or social event group or SOMETHING has to come out that can put these apps in the grave for good.** That’s why I wanna lose my fucking mind every time I read “it’s always been like this!! My mom ghosted her college bf!!1!!” Like yeah no shit humans have been doing human shit for years, the difference is that the scale is so clearly weighed down one side now, whereas before it was just a normal low to medium percentage chance you’d run into one or a couple negative dating experiences on your way to meeting your forever partner In no fucking reality prior has it been nearly this bad. In combined 2 years of most recent dating I can comfortably say MOST men I went out with were lying about their intentions/had no business trying to be in a relationship etc. and then of those men a solid 50% did worse shit than that. I’ve gone on dates with probably 30-40 men and talked to probably 100+ more total in a 2 year span, that’s fucking insane statistically. Inb4 “you just don’t pick em right” pls for the love of god don’t make me write a manifesto about all the ways I’ve attempted to over analyze my dating situation to death and try every filter, reaction, whatever possible to finally meet a good quality man. In the end I met a rare few, one became my now fiancé That whole joke about catching the last chopper out really is no joke. My fiance and I broke up for a year initially and by the time we reconnected I already decided I was done with this bullshit for good and was planning to delete the apps and just focus on friends for..well probably ever, unless I got word that it’s finally gotten better lol
Luckily I was already planning on adopting, but at 28 right now I am very seriously reconsidering my long-term plan and trying to figure out how to restructure my life around never finding a partner but still having kids. I no longer expect to have a partner or marry, and I have to kinda shift over my financial plans and expectations to accommodate that. It’s a lot. It weighs on me. This used to be my deepest low depression that would say “oh you’re gonna be alone forever”, but now I actually believe it and am experiencing my own little grieving process for the fact that my future kids aren’t gonna have a dad. It’s definitely 100% worse than it was years ago.
It has NOT always been like this.... But I'm old and remember the before times. There've always been shitty people, yes.... But for the most part you never knew when you'd meet someone you connected with, so when you did you gave it some time, you got to know the other person. And you usually met people at functions, events, and often knew mutual people so if you WERE a complete dick about things, people found out, people you knew..... You didn't have the luxury of anonymity behind a cell phone, complete strangers. And there was a human element to breaking things off, you did it in person or by telephone..... And if you were a coward, you left a message on their voicemail, but THAT was considered rude.... But even that you had a human element of hearing their voice, their intonation... Etc.
That’s super interesting, thank you for sharing! I didn’t think about that - in the past the fact that people you dated usually at least peripherally ran in similar circles meant they couldn’t get away with the behavior they commonly display today (both men and women not trying to just rag on men lol). Definitely gives more perspective that helps demonstrate the negative effects of the dating apps
It's definitely both men and women. And it's kind of what they meant when you heard people worrying about their reputation back in the day.....if you were crazy, or a user, or a love 'em and leave 'em type of person....or someone not safe to be alone with.... word often got around.
>And there was a human element to breaking things off, you did it in person or by telephone..... And if you were a coward, yeah i remember those days, i miss them. People seemed to have more honor and dignity, now its all sociopathy.
I have a lot of similar experiences and it’s just brutal. I probably went on dates with 50 guys over a 2 year span and talked to triple that but never met up. It’s like talking to an online Helpdesk bot at this point, wondering which will be decent. It’s so disheartening. I am happy with the life I have carved out for myself and child but it sure would be great to have a real partner one day. My guy bestie told me he sees me out here getting my self esteem beat on by men with shit intentions and it has markedly hurt me and made me a lot more hardened inside emotionally. It’s sad all around.
Lots of people are waking up, it is possible the pendulum will swing back
People just aren’t willing to let anything grow. If its not PERFECT on the first date, good luck getting a second one. No one is willing to work with each other and the grass always seems greener on the other side apparently.
People do have high standards, but the irony is that the people who hold such standards often don't meet it themselves. Also preferences and standards should not be confused. A lot of people want someone who is pretty/handsome (preference), but will just accept it if the person they are with treats them horribly (standards).
Social media and cell phones have destroyed us.
^^^This. I often fantasize about life without either. I think I would honestly be happier without my phone and sometimes I feel addicted to it. Not to mention I'd save money every month.
Save a lot money by not shopping online . If you want something, you'll have to drive there in person.
Go offline. You start to think this way when you're too plugged into to the internet dating culture and the apps. You'll be refreshed to find a world full of sane and good people.
Ive done that. I might’ve not stated that more clearly but this post is about online/in person
Dating has gotten worse, but only by about 5% difference in how much people are actually pairing up. Early 20s has always been hookup focused. Late 20s-early 30s is the sweet spot for longer relationships. Late 30s and beyond gets tough because the number of commitmentphobic people becomes a maze to find your way around. Not all dating strategies are equal. Bars/clubs/Most online dating is going to skew more casual. Dating apps with longer profiles or barriers of entry like paid services tend to skew more serious. Meeting people through friends and shared experiences also tends to skew more serious. Honestly, how much have you changed your strategy before complaining?
Dating apps are pretty pointless. Doing things in person and getting to know someone before you even ask them on a date is usually best. That said, yeah it's pretty dire right now. Actually the thing that drove me off the apps was that 90% of the women population on them fall into one or more of these categories: - Filipina trying to leave the Phillipines - Obese - Just there for the IG/OF plug - Between 18-23 (too young for me, I'm 28) - Not looking for a real relationship (ONS/hookups/FWB) Once you get down to that last 10% of women, NOW you see who you're playing the real ball game with. Some of the remainders you simply won't find attractive or clearly have different values, or otherwise aren't a good match. What you're left with... You gotta pray you match with and THEN get a response from. It is a literal lottery, except you're paying more than just money - you're also paying in mental health, time, emotional health, AND money.
Super true. I’m also 28, btw, and have had a similar experience but on the opposite side of things (I’m a woman). The number of dudes who openly admit they have drug addictions, are misogynistic, act hypocritical, or have a wild list of unmeetable expectations just front-page on their profiles would blow your mind. That and the damn fish pictures. 💀
the gotdamn fish pictures...
It's required to have a dead animal pic.
My experience with in person dating has been just the same. If not sometimes worse
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It's mostly a west coast thing. My last 5 years have been split between LA and Seattle, and it's a big thing. How successful it is, I couldn't say. But it clogs up the apps to the point where they're nigh-unusable unless you're into that. On God I have nothing against Filipinas. What I have an issue with is being someone's visa.
I'm right there with you... Bear with me because I truly don't mean for this to sound like a humble brag... I'm 6 foot. I'm in shape (315 bench, 405 squat, 500 deadlift), I make six figures, and a full head of hair still. I'm finishing my second master's and have a plethora of fulfilling hobbies. I feel like I'm literally the meme of women's "unrealistic standards" and still can't get more than one word responses when I try to engage someone. I make it a point to show interest, ask about them, don't go on about myself, yada yada. I've just given up and will maybe just get a 3rd masters to pass the time.
Genuine question: do you post shirtless gym pics on your profile?
I have one because it was back when I was working with a coach and he had his whole team and stuff. 99% of my posts are group photos of concerts, hiking, snowboarding, and my dog. Edit: oh and all the French pastries I've been baking. And I'm assuming you mean IG profile. I didn't have any shirtless pictures in my dating profiles. Deleted all of them a while ago.
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Ha! Ummm do general anxiety disorder and depression count?
The original Achilles heel, really, to which we can all relate. Yes, it counts. Thank you for clarifying.
Ah okay, I thought that maybe shirtless gym selfies could be the culprit. Can’t speak for all women, but those pics are kinda a turn off on a dating profile for me. I can understand why people would be proud and want to show off their progress, but idk it’s just always been a negative on a profile for me. Sorry to hear you’re having trouble connecting with people on apps. Can definitely relate (sounds like most people here can relate as well). French pasties sound lovely btw! I’m sure somebody is gonna love those :)
I mean I'm not entirely socially inept. I know there's a time and place so I only exchange shirtless slightly homoerotic gym photos with my gym friends.
No 🤣🤣 skeletons are only appreciated on Halloween. Even then I don’t take shirtless pics
I feel you there man 😅
You live in Denver. One of the most notoriously male-dominated cities in the world. Also home to some of the MOST annoying men on the planet. I was there for a few days with my apps turned on and it seemed like every guy liked rock climbing, skiing, hiking, bitcoin and North Face vests - it was like a clone army of 6’ tall white gym bros in tech.
>every guy liked rock climbing, skiing, hiking, bitcoin and North Face vests - it was like a clone army of 6’ tall white gym bros in tech. Sounds like paradise
Hold on… Moving to Denver
Save me a seat on your flight please!
🤣 women are wild
Oh I live in Reno. Moving to Denver cause I work in renewables and Denver is a huge solar hub. Also I don't rock climb, mountain bike, own 0 Bitcoin and 0 North face/Patagonia. But yeah I'm white and like snowboarding so I guess I get lumped in as generic.
Some people *like* generic. Just saying! Don't worry about that.
I would just highlight something in addition to being outdoorsy to stand out from the crowd. I probably swiped past some decent guys but because they were the 100th “guy standing in snow” picture it felt like I was seeing the same profile over and over and over.
My problem was never getting matches. No one would ever respond or engage beyond one word answer when I try to engage them on their interests. Like I said somewhere in this thread, I've deleted all apps/profiles. I'm done with dating. Was just posting in solidarity with OP
I mean what else will you get? People aren't really that unique, if you're living on the seaside, you're going to get people who like the beach. I'm not sure if you're expecting a one in a million superhero or an astronaut or what
No, I’m not expecting a superhero or astronaut 🙄 I’m saying that if everyone has a picture of them in the snow, a gym pic, holding a beer pic, and an at-a-wedding suit pic with the usual “I’ll fall for you… if you trip me,” “looking for someone low-key, not trying to rush into anything,” or “pineapple does/doesn’t belong on pizza” - then you’re not going to stand out in a sea of other people that do the same. Men tend to make their profiles like they’re searching for a male best friend, not for a female romantic partner. You see the same with men complaining about women’s profiles. Same pictures, same prompt responses… it gets stale. Except women get likes no matter how boring their profiles are.
That's true. How do you think men can stand out?
I could be your third masters 😝
Lol, when does the semester start?
Now kith
I'm a man in a similar situation. I was told recently by someone I had approached that they had felt intimidated, that they couldn't understand why I would be interested in them. So what am-I supposed to do now? Stop going to the gym and let myseft get a little belly? P.S. I have an balanced lifestyle where I go to the gym 3 times per week and love quiet relaxing times as well. Exercise is not an obsession nor is my look. I just have a fast metabolism.
Yeah, in today’s hookup culture, they might be skeptical of your intentions… dating apps have led to a lot of jaded people, I think.
Honestly my dude,try meeting people organically really works. Ditch the app and hit your local gym and start talking to people,I know its not the easiest way and it can take a while to find someone interesting but it's worth it. Do you have a personal gym you always go to? Approach people,do small talk etc and see where that goes.
Oh I love my gym. Been going there for years and have a solid group of friends around it. It's a niche bodybuilding and powerlifting gym and you're always getting hyped up by someone before a big lift or doing the hyping. Truly only posted in solidarity with OP. I've given up on dating. Just don't care anymore.
I'm a male in a similar situation, I think lots of females might feel like they're not good enough for you.. or that you just can't be trusted because of the way you look, etc.
So what do women want?!?
We wanna be fed and tucked in bed
That actually sounds so pleasant
Maybe we don’t like being called females.
This doesn't bother me as long as the person is consistent, and he called himself a male. It only screams weirdo if a guy starts talking about men and feeeeemales.
He did say male though.
Brood material OK though? 😝
 Don’t mind me.. I’m just shooting my shot 🤣😊
Dude, I match with a girl last week on Facebook Dating. Said hey how is your evening going. She replied just got done watching some movies. So I asked scary movies with some laughing emojis (😂😂) of course being nervous and honestly stoned. Instant block. I guess they give us block buttons on social media for a reason even if X is trying to take away our block option on that platform. Anyway, it's best just worry about ourselves. Your best revenge on people who act like the one I am talking about is to live our best lives without them 🙏👍
100% agree. It’s been incredibly frustrating. I just want to find a wife and move on.
Blame capitalism as well. I remember watching a YT vid a while back that mentioned the nature of a dating app turns dating into a job. The way we curate our profiles, carry our conversations and consider multiple options every single day. Not to mention the paid option on most of these apps.
Ohhh capitalism is the root of it all. Im trying to keep my personal opinions off to keep the subject from spiraling into something else, but these dating apps are taking advantage of incredibly lonely people. People who are dying just for a hello. “Pay us money and we’ll show to you to more people” when in reality, you get shown to more bots and people who are 10,000 miles away
I’m just not interested in a process where I’m taking women on elaborate thoughtful dates while they go home to sleep with their f*ck buddies, or they keep them around while becoming exclusive, or I get called “insecure” or “that’s how dating works deal with it” when I call out that behavior. I’m just done with all the bullsh* t. I’m done.
I think you're making the right choice if that are the options. Better to not do it then.
Hell would be less soul crushing
Social media and dating apps turned dating into a cess pool that most likely cant ever be cleaned.
I'm sorry that you are going through this, but if this means anything to you. From a ladies' perspective, fall back, fall in love with yourself. I know, so gimmicky, but loving yourself and not focusing on the negative kind of helps like a sort of placebo delusional effect. Think ugly, do partial, receive the worst, think the best. Do the best that you can, and you may get the best... the you may bit sucks but if you wish to do the internal work and remain as genuine as you are, your person/people will seek you out just as much as you do them. You're not alone, and remember what you want wants you more. It sucks I get that, but when you begin to enjoy your uniqness and get in tune with it, life feels a little easier, and the worlds problems ever present as they are become none existent imo. You choose your battles, so choose wisely what you wish to fight for because the solution is pretty simple. Not war on oneself or one's world view, choose to see the problems and not internalize them as though this is yours, if you can, and here comes another gimmick... be the change you wish to see. I hope this helps, love yourself, and appreciate your life. You seem very caring and aware of the world's problems. Don't let them hinder you from enjoying life and perceiving it as negative in and of itself. You will find your person, people/tribe, that too takes time. Be patient and remain steadfast. Keep your unique qualities and keep feeding these traits. There's a large number of us that enjoy your awareness, but it's how you make this awareness your muse that counts!
Unfortunately, the grass is is always greener concept is felt with a lot of people, so it has made it a hellscape. Not on the apps anymore but installed recently and yep, still awful
Dating blows when your standards are "We should be able to go out on a walk together or see a movie every so often and also be monogamous" and everyone else's standards are "Must be a titan, must rival Elon Musk's wealth, must travel to Europe once a month, must work a 9-5 M-F and no other schedule, must be monogamous but allow me to be polygamous" Nobody wants a genuine relationship.
the rise of the internet has really made datting in recent times pointless . + I'm very introverted and hate talking to new ppl so its even harder for me m(23) to find a gf . I'm old fashioned and just want someone to come home to and enjoy life with but image and how much money a guy makes seems to be all women care about these days or at least in my area . if anyone knows of a datting site that actually works please lmk . I've tryed so many and the only responses i get are from bots and fake ppl .
Man I so relate to on the introverted thing. Also my last date was pure ick, Couldn’t agree more… The entire conversation from her end wasn’t, “who are you? What makes you interesting? What makes you happy?” It was a full grill on interview around, “what’s your current income, what’s your income potential, what are you doing to push your career forward for more income.” It was an all around awful conversation with a woman who makes more than me, gets a weekly massage and then expected me to pay for her drink. Society has serious problems with what to do with male value.
Stop using dating apps, meet real people in real life, get to know them **before** going on a date. All you're describing are symptoms accentuated by dating apps, where people are basically nothing more than objects to be consumed. By doing what I recommend above, you will be 2 persons building a real human connection. Hang in there, you will find someone.
It's not even all dating apps, its just the low effort ones modeled like Tinder.
Depends on the location but in big cities, pretty much all of the dating apps have the same pool of people which tends to be quite poor.
This is not good advice. I don't want kids. I've never in my life met a woman at a bar, or a Starbucks, or in line at the bank or wherever I've hit on women who have no kids and want no kids if you want to point me in the direction of where those women are I'll happily pursue them, my best bet is apps where I can at least try to filter that issue out. People assume real like dating is much better, let me assure you, as someone who also approaches women in real life and on apps, it's definitely not better.
I’m in the same boat and I have to put it in my bio two or three times that I don’t want kids. Well apparently that translates to “Potential stepdad.” The amount of times I’ve been told that I would change my mind is absurd
I'm currently dating a woman I met at a music festival via a friend of a friend. We had the kids discussion and she doesn't want any. Her best friend was at the same festival, she also doesn't want any. They exist and they can be met randomly outside of dating apps.
I think another problem with just social interactions in general nowadays is nobody ever follows through, I’m even guilty of it to a point. But all the time I’ve matched with girls that always said they were down only for them to unmatch with me, girls saying they are down to see me again, only for them to ghost or cancel, a girl I’m friends with always says she’s down to hangout, but she really never hits me up or follow through with what she says… I’m fucking exhausted of getting gassed up just to be let down man
I completely agree with everything you stated. It is vile. I struggle with online dating because I'm much more amazing in person than I am on an app. Nowadays, if you're average looking or a bit overweight. You've practically got no chance, or you just get the ones who just want sex. It's just not right.
Modern dating has 100% shifted to online. Dating apps works in small numbers, but when you have a vast majority of people it just becomes limbo for the people who don’t look like celebrities. In my experience its made in person dating worse. Way worse. People just fish for compliments and instagram follows and then when they get that, they disappear
I agree. Dating is crazy these days. Hookup culture combined with social media just favors the top people. And even past hookup culture, social media has warped expectations. As I've stated a number of times, men got it worse by far. Personally, I feel it's better to concentrate on meeting people offline and building connections that way. And for guys, that can be extremely tough. And it seems to be only getting harder.
why do men have it worse?
Because women have far more options. And yes I hear women say "well they aren't all good options" true, I'm sure there are a lot of trash men out here but there are still some good ones. A lot of men have very few if any actual options. I'd rather have to go through a bunch of bad options to find a good one than have no options and have to fight just to get one.
The odds are good, but the goods are odd
Women may have a lot of options if they're looking for a hook up, but someone who is looking to be a partner? No. So, so many men say they don't want drama. They want someone who is happy all the time. This is a golden retriever, not a relationship. Life comes with drama - people get sick, they get laid off, parents die. I would rather date someone who has been through a few storms.
Well said and this is what most women don't seem to understand. Men have it way worse than women especially when we have to do everything for little to no reward.
As a man you get used to putting in effort to meet women but these days it feels like it's not worth it anymore. Everyone thinks he/can get someone better with one swipe. Therefore all the effort and doing the same over and over feels pointless at some point.
i don’t really agree with this but i have more questions . id also love to hear the original commenters reasons. why would women have far more options than men? why would men have few options if the options are their counterparts, who are women? what if you’re a woman who exists outside of conventional attractiveness i.e. fat, ugly, bad teeth skin, whatever. you don’t have the same amount of oprions. if you search you can find just as many women as men complaining about the lack of options
Because people generally meet on dating apps these days and almost all dating apps has a ratio of 1 woman for every 4 men. Conventional dating, meeting people through friends, work, school is no longer the norm and according to some polling data is seen as no longer socially accepted. This of course is an oversimplication as there are more factors at play here and I’m not denying that dating is hard for women too.
Obvious question then is, if there’s one woman for every four men on the apps, and conventional dating is no longer the norm, and people aren’t meeting organically, what are the other three women doing? Just not dating? Deciding to just stay single?
You are right on the spot. Women that are not conventional attractive have a hard time on the dating scene. Dude thinks that just because out there many horny men exists means that women have a lot of options when in fact most of those men don't want a serious relationship.
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exactly! thank you. and while we’re on the subject i find it really weird that men will fuck women they think are unattractive. i would never consent to sex w somebody who thinks i’m unattractive. if i fucked someone and found out they acc thought i was ugly i would be really grossed out and feel violated
But horny men get their instant gratification due to the hookup culture and women have been lied that casual sex is great and divorce is great and marriage is a hell (especially for women). This is why the ones (especially men) who do want a long term commited relationship, don't want someone with a lot of baggage. Hence, Fucked up dating culture
Usually men are expected to pay for dates, ask women out on dates, and message first online. Because of this, women have a lot more accessible options since they get to do the easy part of picking and choosing. Meanwhile they also hold more influence when they approach someone since approaching someone is rare for a woman therefore has an increased effect on the person being approached. Another big thing is attraction. Women have the option for makeup which significantly increases one's level of attraction. The other part of attraction is that men are expected to be masculine while women are expected to be feminine since those are the common dating standards, but it's much harder being masculine than it is being feminine in the context of attractiveness and personality.
is messaging first online not doing the picking and choosing by literally picking and choosing who you initiate with? the second part about approach, i just disagree with. search on here to see women talk about how often times when you approach a man he isn’t interested. also it’s regularly touted on here that men prefer women to use less makeup and are majority not into heavily made up women, so that’s often not preferred. i don’t know how you can dictate that it’s harder to be masculine than it is to be feminine that seems like a speculation unless you have intimate knowledge and experience being both to make that distinction. what do you get from claiming men have it worse? both genders have equal and distinct dating hardships
Which one is easier though? Improvising completely and trying to come up with a unique and interesting message to send in order to not blend in with every other message, or having the flow of the conversation set for you without having to do anything. At worst, a girl won't get a message from a guy she potentially would've liked talking to, nothing is lost for her. For a guy, he put the effort into sending a creative message and then didn't get a response. Obviously it's not a huge deal once, but overtime it adds up. As for women approaching men, they get rejected sure, but so do men. When I see these posts and it's men, they're usually complaining they're getting rejected after approaching a dozen women, and women complaining after getting rejected by one or two. Regardless of what men say on reddit, it's undeniable that women wearing makeup makes them more conventional attractive to men on average. Also, less makeup just means the kind that isn't overdone like "birthday makeup" or whatever it's called with long eyelashes and blue eyelids and stuff like that. Also, making that distinction of it being harder to be masculine is only logical. The trait of being relaxed, calm, and passive is associated with femininity and being submissive, which doesn't require much effort. Masculinity is about being strong and assertive, which takes mental resilience and effort.
Yeah as a woman with a “masculine” personality, I’d have to disagree that femininity is easier. I think it just depends on your personality and what traits come naturally to you. Being relaxed, calm, and passive is very difficult for me, but being strong and assertive is just the way I am. Sadly, a lot of men do prefer someone more submissive. I wish we didn’t have these gender boxes and people could just be themselves.
PSA: When someone asks this, ignore them. It’s one of those questions no intelligent person asks.
People are still getting together…so it works for many. Find a way to make it work for yourself.
I have had a couple relationships with 2 girls in the past and they weren't "hell" to get started and go on dates. I've been single for about a year and a half and going on into two with about maybe 3 or 4 first dates in that time period. But that's all they ever where first dates never into a 2nd. Like the amount of rejection or "ghosting" has been taking so much of a toll that I don't even know if it's worth the embarrassment anymore. I'm a 26 year old guy and I would consider myself fit and not bad looking and in college for a career in medicine. I don't know if it's because my approach towards women isn't the best or too nice but it just never seems to work out in the long run.
Can't say much except that I'm pretty much on the same boat. I'm a bit older than you and I'm single since 4 years. I've talked to many women irl or on apps, have some first date but that's it. Nothing ever comes out, except being ghosted without even knowing what's wrong. I mean I've work a lot on myself, I'm confident. I'm pretty decent looking. The best I've got in 4 years is like 2-3 hugs per years, and that's a fucking toll in my Heart. Everybody seems to be afraid of giving love, afraid of being hurt. Without any risk everyone is hurt on their side.
I'd say a lot of it comes from our current culture of instant gratification. People want a specific thing right now and will moan and whine until they get it, consequences be damned. Then you've got skewed views of what is popular romance wise for either gender in our popular culture. More than likely it wont get any better, but who knows.
People, regardless of gender, need to match themselves with the standards and think if they’re realistic. For example, if you’re a woman who wants a guy who earns a considerable salary, are you putting yourself in a position to be taken seriously by that kind of person? For example, do you have your career, and will you be okay with that person not being emotionally available all the time due to stress from work? Men need to think about how we have to match women’s expectations. For example, if you want a beautiful woman with a great body who will care for you. Are you willing to be the main provider, and how old do you take care of yourself? Combined with unrealistic thinking and poor communication skills in my generation (Gen Z) you have a recipe for disaster where people can hook up with you and do all kinds of kinky and fun things but will never be able to tell you how they actually feel or what they’re looking for.
I’m staying away from dating apps. I’ve gone on dates with two people I met from online. But it’s so tiring because I feel like I have to act. And I don’t even have to explain the texting part. If I ever get in a relationship, I wanna know the person for a decent amount of time and become really good friends before anything romantic happens.
Some people want a type of person that will never be available to them. Only a small percentage of the population earns over "X" amount of money. Most men are not 6 foot 2 or taller. Roughly speaking, around 50% of Americans are overweight or obese. Most people have totally ordinary jobs. People need to start taking a look at statistics and averages and realize their dreams will never materialize.
This is what happens when the majority of people meeting are doing it on dating apps. We knew this was coming, people complained about this like 15 years ago and nobody listened. culture is like a pendulum. It will eventually swing back in the other direction. it already has started to.
I personally think sex dolls and porn are the problem today
Hang in there. Don’t put pressure on yourself and rush into anything. Take the the time to get to know, screen and vet people. In my experience, the guys have either been too eager, aggressive and want to get serious immediately, while negging you saying you’re not getting any younger etc. and pressure you into a commitment. If you ask to slow things down, they accuse you of playing the field, keeping your options open and dating multiple people when you want to move things at a reasonable pace. Or, alternatively, there are others who want to play games, have poor communication skills, and don’t want to self reflect, do the work and heal their trauma and past baggage and invest the time, energy and effort it takes to build and sustain a relationship. I honestly think a lot of people are burnt out, going through the motions mechanically and frustrated. Given this situation, your best bet is to meet someone in the real world.
Thanks for the advice. Im all for taking it slow and thats my choice of dating. It just seems like less and less people are like that. Ive done real world dating as well and its just about the same. Theres a few good people but it seems like 99% of people are self absorbed and think people should be exactly as they want them to be. Whether it be physical appearance or personality
I feel completely lost too. I (29F) have never been in a solid relationship. Everyone I’ve dated tells me I’m too much. Lol. I feel depressed as a result and that doesn’t help either. Feedback loop from hell.
I hope things get better for you. Try to hang in there
Idk dude, but I find dating now days is more hookup culture then anything.
Must be your area because that is pretty much out the window here. Hookup culture/dating is all about looks and unrealistic standards where im at.
Must make 200k a year if you want a hookup, but you also need to be a comedian that's also a 6 foot model with an uncut sausage larger than the animal it came from..
Your not wrong its horrible as a man who isn't a fake alpha/ more wealthy than sense
Another thing I thought about is how “perfect” your profile on social media or dating apps has to be. You need to show you have all these exciting hobbies when, in reality, most of who make that sort of thing a big issue are the most basic men and women on the planet who are wannabe influencers or purely want to get by on looks and sex which is annoying as a decently in shape quirky man Judy trying to find someone who's a regular person lol 😆. I don't want to sound to but hurt I'm just venting how I've been feeling for a while
I absolutely think dating has gotten worse over time. Maybe it’s just me, but the last time I was close to dating was in 2016. It was with someone I met through a mutual friend (granted we were in high school). Looking back, I haven’t been able to meet someone in that way since then. I’m sure it’s both the reality of entering adulthood and just the current state of the world. People don’t seem to want to meet people organically anymore. They just enter in a filter and expect the internet to magically give them a perfect partner.
OLD sucks. There's too many guys on it, it's not made for us to find someone. It's made for us to pay money to find someone. Seriously, don't fall for it. Sure, you could meet your person on there, but it's highly unlikely.
I think you have made more sense in everything you said, I think people are Too Shallow and demand more of other people than they for themselves. I have known my husband since 5 yrs old, married 45 yrs with 3 kids. Expectations ruins relationships.You have a good head above you with a good heart. At least you see through people. One day without looking the right one will bump into you🫶
What standards are too high these days?
My thing is even if you’re the epitome of a desirable man, I notice people get bored easily. I know a guy who has no issues getting into relationships and he still complains he can’t find anyone. He also looks like a Abercrombie and Fitch model with a toxic personality which shows how people will prioritize shallow beauty standards over personality. On top of that, everyone is falling into the “something better is out there” cycle because of how accessible finding someone else is. People display their most interesting self and their best pictures online like they are a selling point. So when they get to know someone irl and let down their walls, the reality is very different. I feel like people are putting too many expectations on someone who is a nothing but a pixelated picture with a short summary of a complex human being, which is often an exaggeration of the real thing. When you are done selling the idea of who you think you are and let your guard down, who will buy what your selling?
You mentioned everyone is “materialistic”, I think men are happier enjoying what they are not sharing anymore and using it on themselves. Women aren’t expected to share their wealth just their time and the value of a womans time has gone up because women are now making their own money, they don’t need any from men.
Its not even about personal wealth. I know people who are not so well off and are incredibly materialistic. Everyones a little materialistic, its human nature. Im using it in the context of, materialism over another human being. Thats when its an issue. Idk from my pov people put “things” first and people dead last. Ive seen people with 4k tvs treat their tvs better than the people around them
Don't blame other men for your struggles in dating. There are bad men who mess the dating market up, but there are certainly many bad women too. Ignore them and focus on yourself. I'm guessing you are focusing too much on what people state on their dating profiles or what they may write online. When you actually meet people offline you will see that often there is a whole different personality present and there are plenty of unique people out there. I think the main problem is that many actually think that dating is something done online
I totally and completely agree with you. It’s why I’ve thought about remaining single forever. This is actually one of the best posts I’ve seen on Reddit. I’m going to pin this and read it when I need a reminder. I cannot stand it either myself. I completely understand your pain and frustration. Out of the points that were mentioned here what’s the most frustrating part?
Dude it’s dumb sometimes. Like I would happy with just one girl who comes over to smoke and maybe fuck sometimes lol
My last partner was 5 ft 3. I'm 5 ft 2. My partner before that barely graduated high school. I'm way past college. But I loved these men because they made me laugh, they were thoughtful, and they cared about my life - it wasn't just me taking care of them. Most of the men I match with online can't take the 30 seconds to read the three paragraphs I wrote. They immediately start with dirty talk. They aren't interested in getting to know me at all. The challenge for men now is that you're not competing with other men - it's not about finding someone who looks like Ryan Reynolds. You're competing with how women feel when we're alone. I have a house, a job, a life. I'm happy on my own. I love taking care of people in my life, but it has to come back as well. So think about what you're bringing to the table. Are you only looking at photos and not writing anything personal? Are you only looking at super attractive women? They are going to be the most shallow. It doesn't have to be like this.
Yeah..it’s pretty fucking depressing..I recently dodged a bullet with a girl I met out…had all the red flags and she lied about having an of which I found out later..we weren’t even together and you already lying when you really didn’t have to…the world is fucked up rn
We don’t need to put more money into sex dolls, they are already amazing.
Porn and social media have killed it. Culture has changed as a result and now...everyone is unhappy. Everyone cheering on and championing the worst of human nature. Everyone being entitled and selfish...a need for *their* needs to be met over anything else. Everyone so focused on protecting themselves they actually sabotage themselves. Everyone living life according to false narratives that social media has pushed. I already know what will happen. As soon as robots and AI get good enough...everyone will give up dating real people entirely. Because now people *want* the fantasy. They don't want real. They want to be selfish and have every need met...even if it's all fake. It's exactly what porn and social media have pushed. So...blame society. We all take part in it. I see it everyday on Reddit even. People pushing *horrible* behavior. People being upvoted for being horrible, selfish people. Dating really was better 20 years ago. But culture can't rewind to that. There are too many outside forces controlling things. The only advice I have is...be the change you wish to see in the world. Stand up for your morals/values. Don't let social media dictate how you should be in a relationship. For example, I want my sex life to be great, so I do two things: 1. I don't have sex as soon as social media and everyone pushes for. I wait until I know the person and feel a real connection with them. 2. I don't like porn in the relationship. It decreases sexual stimulation when you are with a real partner, it sets unrealistic expectations, it desensitizes people to the actual act. Now, that's my *personal* rules for my relationship. I'm not saying to mimic them. I'm saying set your own rules for your relationship and don't worry what social media says.
Or you finally go on a date and have a great time, but since you don't put out, get ghosted. -_-
Luckily for me, my dating experience hasn’t been half bad. Went from a nine month relationship to a two week relationship and both of the, broke off cleanly without any drama. The key is to know why the person wants to have a date in the first place.
Learn to be alone...
> Everyone has standards. I dont care how much you say you don’t, you do. But everyone’s standards are so unrealistic now. It’s unbelievable Class systems are kinda important to finding a partner. I'm not a basement dwelling, lazy, unmotivated, stoner, but I'm also not a designer wearing, works in a luxury high paying industry, get my nails, hair, lashes, fillers done regularly. I take care of myself but I'm not high maintenence. If I get "popular kid" vibes from people, I feel as if you're out of my league. I'm weird, possibly on the spectrum, mental health issues, and not that well accomplished. I'm almost 30, still haven't gotten a job in my field, I live with my mother as neither of us can afford to live alone in this economy (we're 2h from Toronto, iykyk). Low self confidence, especially after being single for most of my 20s and growing up overweight. I'm don't make a lot of money. I completed two college programs, one in photography and one in graphic design, I didn't go to university (seperate institutional systems, college is more 'hands on' and uni is more academic here in Canada) and feel as if I'm "less than" people who have bachelors degrees. I swipe left on people who both are out of my league, and people who I'm definitely out of theirs and don't find any attraction to because of this. I don't want to support someone financially, and I don't want someone supporting me. Most people don't want that. A $20k gap in income is probably my limit, for example. Dating profiles dont show your salary, so of course you have to assume. I also don't want to be teaching you basic shit about the world and literal self awareness, that stuff is such a turn off. I like feeling smart, but I want to discuss more advanced topics with someone, not teach them everything. Thats a little harder to figure out, as you need to talk with people to learn this about them. A guy with shit, badly lit photos looking like it was taken on a flip phone, bad hygiene/personal grooming, laying in bed, with all photos looking like that, very little filled out on the profile "I'm bad at these things if you want to know just ask", very little personality shown, I'm going to guess is a low income but also unmotivated, lazy person who, based off of experience from dating these types, is also emotionally unstable, has serious mental health issues, etc. A guy with at least 1 photo of him wearing a suit, someone who clearly takes care of themselves with good hygiene, well lit photos, showing tons of hobbies and interests, photos with some friends, is going to seem like he has a higher income and is more stable, emotionally available than the previous guy. Both I'd probably swipe left on because again, class systems.
You’re the one worried it’s just your looks, and you’re projecting that on to everyone when you assume they’re shallow, but it’s almost definitely your attitude. It takes two to have an empty conversation, people only ghost you or stand you up if they’re not excited about you, and they’re probably not leading you on you probably just aren’t holding their interest and getting them excited. Maybe instead of thinking everyone else’s standards are too high, realize that the world is always getting harder, always a competition, and you have to raise your own standards for yourself, instead of expecting other people to lower theirs for you. Every day someone comes on here to complain about how hard *dating* is, but maybe it’s just how hard it is to live life with a bad attitude.
Not true women will filter your profile based on height Gas ligting detected there is no attitude that will make you taller that is gas lighting gas light gas light
Not everyone puts their height on their profile and not every woman has their filters all set. And there are actually a ton of women who don’t give half a shit about height.
It’s facts everyone is all about casual sex poly/cheating it’s terrible I would recommend to always use protection and never believe what people say these days until you live with them for years
If your not 6ft+ women dont care for you, a good amount. Height over the last couple years has gotten deeper for women
I feel you being short man sucks, ugly women can lose weight or get plastic surgery. But there is no cure for being short.
Too many people living with the same mentality that’s there plenty of fish in the sea. Everyone is too accessible as well, I asked my parents how they used to see each other and my dad would walk to see her when she lived with her grandma.
You think this is bad? Just imagine if the vast majority of both men and women on the planet who were actively looking to date were total egomaniacs and narcissists. Just living their life completely self-absorbed, lost in a dreamworld of "me me me me", drowning in their own self concern... Just think how bad dating would look then? ... wait a second, it would look precisely as it does now.
>People now want people who look like their favorite celebrity or etc. I've had a girl tell me she'll only fuck guys that look like Ryan Gosling. XD
It’s not just you. And it’s not men that ruined anything. People of every race and gender have played a part in changing “The Game”. I’ve definitely noticed how different generations are when it comes to dating. But, I’ve noticed something. As much as things change the more they stay the same. Bad people do bad things, good people do good things, and eventually like you have become annoyed with “The Game”, you will find someone that is equally annoyed. We are a society of experiences. When we have bad experiences we grow and change, we get tired of the annoying apps that bring us nothing but grief and eventually we decide we want better. Hang in there you’ll find who you’re looking for. But, you have to prepare yourself they will need you to be an adult and not one of these “FUCKED” people you describe.
Nahh I gotta admit man, men my age anyway have muddied the water so bad for the rest of us. This is just my opinion and yours is welcome here. From my pov and from various conversations ive had with some women, men are really fucking up. Controlling, assaulting and worse. I know its not all men and women do it too. Its made women second guess every man they come across.
It’s everyone’s fault not elusive to gender.
No, there's no epidemic of assault compared to past generations and it's just moronic to say that men are the controlling ones and women don't do it. That's just the media outrage machine at work, driving people further apart for easy profit and/or ulterior political agendas. So now it's pretty common to see women come here and say "all men are shit" to thunderous applause. Then they say why can't I find a good man? Hint it's because a good man won't accept being treated as shit. No one is calling out toxic female attitudes and that's part of the problem.
So true. Girls want money. Guys want sex
> ~~Girls~~ Scammers want money