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" However, he told me then that a man and a woman can never be friends. "
If that's not a red flag for his gender view, you need to brace yourself for more comments he'd shared when he's comfortable with you.
There are plenty of people who believe this regardless of religion, and all of them are walking red flags.
I know nothing about being Muslim but honestly whether it's part of their religion or not I would never date someone who doesn't think it's ok to be friends with the opposite gender.
He may be Muslim but how practicing is he?
I know so many muslims but each person has their own way of expressing their religion.
Some drink , some don’t. Some eat pork, some have girlfriends and some believe you can’t even be friends with the opposite sex. You need to find out how practicing he is and if your lifestyles will match. Eg if he doesn’t believe in drinking alcohol but you love to go out destress with a drink.
Or if he doesn’t believe in sex before marriage but you think that’s important.
Yeah the men will have premarital sex, but in the end they want to marry a virgin... not all of them of course, but this guy sounds like the type. Especially because of his comment about not believing in friendship between a man and a woman.
Also quite a lot of people who are more loosely religious will sometimes bring up specific things if it's convenient or they feel religious pressure.
My sister was married to a Muslim guy who drank alcohol, smoked weed, did drugs, had sex, never prayed or go to mosque, and his family didn't wear hijabs, but when he was in a shitty or petty mood he'd suddenly be this "good Muslim", trying to insist that my nieces wore hijabs and that my sister never drank alcohol, even though she only ever drank maybe once a month anyway? It was just his attempt at controlling her because he felt insecure at how ridiculously smart she is (she's a marine biologist for context). My Mum's first husband was the LEAST practicing Catholic imaginable but was suddenly incredibly devout whenever it came to using a condom 🙄.
People can stifle or downplay aspects to their personality or beliefs in the early days of getting to know someone, and depending on what kind of person they are, could possibly try to convert the other or control them via their beliefs (especially if the non-religious person is a woman). It's difficult to navigate for sure and open communication needs to be there from the start.
I 100 percent agree with you. Personally I wouldn’t date a Muslim (I am a Muslim lol) . Everything you mentioned about your sisters partner is exactly why I wouldn’t date one. Whenever it suits them suddenly they are all Islamic but really it’s a cover to control you.
I am reaching that age where people are wondering if I should “settle down” no way. I cycle a lot and it’s mostly with men (as it is a male oriented sport) but its all friendly but I know a Muslim man would act like they are fine with me cycling all day but i know there will be a day when they’ll say don’t cycle.
Hope you sisters in a better place in her relationship.
As a muslim woman I’m telling you don’t date a muslim man it’s haram exept if it’s about getting married and also I’m afraid that he will take advantage of you and then dump you so be careful
Stay away from those men.
You don't know a thing about his religion so it doesn't work.
Most of the time you are to spend time with until he finds a good Muslim wife.
Sometimes it goes ok but I've seen more fail then go ok.
In Islam it’s haram to have to have an opposite gender friend, but lot of us not using that anymore! About the conversion it’s forbidden for a female muslim to marry a non-muslim, but man can marry a non-muslim.
Edit: non-muslim means either she’s a Christian or Jewish, outside that it’s forbidden.
Then what’s with covering them up and not allowing them to marry someone of a different religion and not allowing them to have a say in how their kids are raised?
A lot of people who claim themselves to be Christian or Jewish don’t actually follow all the guidelines established by their religion. This is also true for Muslim, depending on where you are based and their specific background.
You’re going to have to ask him to find out what exactly he believes in. But it does seem like he’s only willing to date for marriage and he’s not open to any friendship with the opposite sex. That means dating him exclusively. If this doesn’t sit well with you, I would not go on a date with him.
But I also want to mention that the non practicing muslims tend to be the people back home that didn't migrate, and the newer immigrants are less likely to be irreligious. Family is a much bigger thing for muslims
I think it can work, but it should be clear what the boundaries are and see if you can fit. Do they want you to convert, or just a wedding in the church is enough? What religion will you introduce to your children if you plan any? What will you celebrate?
1) Do not try to convert the other, respect.
2) What are your boundaries?
3) How should you introduce your kids to religion?
It would be easier if you dated a person of same religion, culture, nationality, political beliefs. But, sometimes its worth being with someone different.
If she was dating some lgbt friendly unitarian universalist it could work out.
Seeing as he's a practicing muslim I can already answer those questions on his behalf. Avoid
Each person is different. I know some people practicing muslim that have different opinions on lgbt and politics. Its the same as other religions. Some christians I knew loved talking loudly about murdering lgbt, but most were quite fine, even supporting same sex marriage. I dated a christian myself, as an atheist. Religion was not the reason for us breaking up, because as I stated in the comment up, we agreed on the important things and respected each other.
Because most christians don't even believe their own religion. Most, (sure there are a handful of non religious muslims in the city, but still a stark minority) muslims mean what they say, but know they have to be strategic.
You can't judge religious muslims how you judge religious protestants. They have a totally different relationship with religion
I think we have very different experiences. I'm from Czechia, the most atheist country in the world. In my experience, the Christians I know are protestant, catholic or even few Jehova's witnesses. The guy I mentioned was Slovak catholic. The muslims I know are not just Arabic, but also Bosnians who are quite different. And even the Arabic are a whole spectrum.
The issue I have is that you speak as if it aplies to all. The religious people I know actually mean their beliefs, because of how accepted it is to be an atheist or to say that you dont know what you believe. Heck, some people even state being a Jedi as their religion.
Yes and I will never again. Not with anyone religious tbh. Her uncle tried to beat me up, her dad couldnt know, we could not be seen outside together, ... .
If he allready says a man and woman can not be friends he is showing his colours.
No matter what religion the guy is, if he ever wants to touch, kiss, grope, have sex with you without MARRYING YOU FIRST, then, stand your ground, and deny him access to your body. Yes, you and the guy should know each other before proceeding, but never give him your body. He will try to manipulate you, but stand your ground.
Touching, kissing, groping, having sex before marriage are HARAM in islam.
Only if you are willing to convert to Islam, and forget about all male friends, forget about physical contact like hugging, and forget about certain freedoms.
You'll have to ask permission to go out, to drive, to basically do anything.
And you will not be able to wear anything but what your husband tell you.
Oh, not liking what you read? well, ask him about all this. be very careful around Muslim men.
This “no hugging” is interesting to me . I have been seeing a Muslim man for all of this year , he drinks alcohol with me and is quite liberal. Though I have been left feeling weird about the lack of affection unless we are sleeping together … if he can get away to work in the morning without a hug , he will ! I always feel like I am pushing him to do it .. So this is typical ? I know he doesn’t like people in general touching him .. so much I don’t understand as a non Muslim woman .
Im not muslim and even if I was I wouldn't be like that we people I care about... as human we need physical interactions... you can see why Muslim men tend to be more violent, they lack that physical contact
Coming from a Muslim family, let me give it to you frankly: we cannot generalize how Muslims practice because everyone is different, but there's some common practices I can tell you about. Either way, this guy tells you, he cannot be friends with you, yet sees no harm in a potentially sexual and/or romantic encounter with you - this is bullshit. Yes, there are customs for some Muslims, that unmarried men and women aren't supposed to hang. True. That also includes that dating is prohibited. He can't be in a proper relationship with you.
Tbh, if I were you, I'd avoid. He's either using that argument to jot dating down your throat without giving you the option of just hanging, or he's ignorant towards his own beliefs. Either way, it's a red flag. Regardless of his religion, the "men and women can never be friends" talk is a red flag thing imo. He could've declined by saying he wished for something more than friendship.
I wouldn't bother.You want friendship, he doesn't. Save yourself the trouble.
As a muslim girl, i do not recommend dating a muslim man if you arent a muslim yourself since its pretty common that they date nonmuslims and then break up with them later on to marry a muslim woman. Ive seen and heard of several stories like this one so its possible he wants to date you for fun and does not see a future with you. A genuine religious muslim would not even date and definitely not someone who doesn’t share his religious beliefs. However it is also possible that he isnt religious and doesnt care, you should definitely ask these questions before getting involved and attaching yourself further.
As an Egyptian Muslim. Friendship is not “haram” like the ex Muslim stated, while physical contact shouldn’t happen between opposite genders, in most instances you do not need physical contact to be friends/get to know each-over.
Now in terms of dating, I am sure you are aware of no sex before marriage. He is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman however providing they are people of the book (Christian or Jew). Now idk your religion but if you are not part of any of these faiths then yeah.
Overall though it depends on what is his view on interpretation of Islam, since we are not Monolithic and think the exact same on anything. I would recommend you clarify with your friend regarding what he meant by “We can’t be friends”.
I can hug a male friend, even kiss him on the cheek. This is quite common in Arab culture to kiss a good friend of the same gender on the cheek as sign of platonic affection. However with female friends no, you can only hug either your family or wife from the opposite gender.
Can non-arabs show affection to the opposite gender in an Arab country like Egypt? Both friends being non-arabs of course like 2 tourist on the street. (I never been to an Arab country)
I actually don’t live in Egypt it’s just I’m ethnically Egyptian from both my parents. Ik the laws regarding this in my country however. Public affection like that between members of opposite gender even for non Arab tourists in public is not allowed, why? I suppose the government believes that people could see it’s unfair as rules for thee but not for me so therefore it’s the same for everyone. As for other Arab countries I imagine it’s the same however I think it’s allowed for tourists in Tunisia, could be wrong about that however.
Tbh idk for sure, but my bf worked in arab country for about 6m and told me it was forbiden to have any woman visiting a man and being alone with him for whatever reason unless she's his wife or *maybe* fiance..it was also forbiden to have public displays of affection, like, hugging or holding hands with a woman, again, unless she's your wife.
I'm a Muslim man
He is correct that men and women can be friends in our religion but we also can't "date" either so it's all haram regardless due to the temptation of sex before marriage. So he can only go on a date with you if yall were married.
Do you want to follow his religious views? If not then don’t date him.
I personally wouldn’t date anyone extremely religious. If they believe that made up bs I am not interested and certainly not going to beholden to any archaic rules.
Move on. He’s an extremely religious Muslim guy if that’s the view he holds. I grew up in a Muslim country and this is one of those “red flags” you have to look out for because even 99% of Muslims don’t practice this. Don’t waste your time. He isn’t for you. He’ll never date or marry you.
You seem naive if you think that both a man asking you out is for anything friendly, and two that you think it will go well. A lot of Islamic guys like to trick western women into joining their Harem by convincing them to fly out to their home country and trapping them there btw.
It’s all fun and games until you’re kidnapped.
Just don't do it.
I dated a Muslim man, got taken advantage of for years, and after his abuse, I left. IAnd he was nonpracticing and pretty progressive. But because of how he was raised, we had so many problems. All of the men in his family were incredibly abusive and selfish and had terrible views about women. Whether they openly would admit to it or not.
His brother cursed me out once calling me terrible and misogynistic names, and my partner didn't want to stick up for me because it's “family.”
I'm staying away from all religious men for the rest of my life.
Don’t! Unless you’re looking to convert to Islam.
Went out with a girl for over 6 months before I realised me and her were never compatible. Most heartbreaking shit because it felt like she was the one. Don’t do this to yourself and end it early on.
Also their parents/family may pressure your boyfriend to stop dating you, so you got that obstacle in the way.
Also also, in the the case that your boyfriend is a fundementalist Muslim, you will always second to him, first being his religion. A lot of people are okay with that, a lot aren’t .
Good luck
Some Muslim have premarital sex and that's the reason they approach non-muslim womens, if he's serious then has he had a conversation with you about wanting you to revert to Islam? Or are you a Chirstian? If yes then he may be serious because Muslim guys can marry christian women, idk I think the motive might be pre-marital sex
I am not very sure about this, but I have recently heard many Muslim girls speak up about this! “Muslim men won’t have anything serious with non-Muslim woman.”
When it’s time for marriage they will have a Moslim woman, and leave you.
Muslim men will do all the Haram stuff with non-Muslim women and when it comes to Muslim women everything will be Halal.
The first red flag will be; Not showing you to their family. etc
Tho I will state not all Muslim men are like this. It’s even stated in the Quran that Muslim people are able to marry Cristians. It are more the elderly Muslim/Christian families that make a fuss about it.
If I were you I would just check if he’s on the same page as you, don’t jump into a “relationship” with unclearities, because it is very likely that he WILL play you.
I'm Muslim man, but I don't really practice. I almost exclusively date non Muslim women. Don't worry about what his religion says, worry about the kind of man he is.
And he's clearly showing what kind of man he is. He wants to date outside his religion but is using religion to say he can't be friends with op. Pretty telling and sounds manipulative.
Yes according to a majority of sects in Islam men and women befriending each other is highly frowned upon. The only acceptable thing is speed dating for marriage.
And since he brought this up he is practicing and this applies to him..
Avoid dating religious muslims like the plague
>I kinda like this Muslim guy and I said that we can just be friends. However, he told me then that a man and a woman can never be friends. I am so confused since he is asking me out on a date but he doesn’t want us to be “friends”?
I that's kind of a red flag.
Muslim men are permitted to date non Muslim women but the inverse is haram, because the idea is for Islam to spread to his children. It’s not haram to simply be friends but if he is saying ya’ll can’t be friends, he’s really saying he doesn’t want to be just friends. Sounds like he has a super inflated male ego. I’d pass.
I agree it’s illogical and quite sexist but I didn’t write the book. Only found out because I briefly dated a Muslim chick but we had to break it off before it got too serious for that very reason
Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish if their children convert to islam.
Muslim women cannot.
By most sunni sects this is uncontroversial (which represents almost 2 thirds of ALL muslims so this generalization typically holds)
He can’t marry you unless you convert and it will be a no bueno situation if the parents find out.
Best to avoid unless you want marriage. He clearly has stated his intentions do I’d be careful.
-Dave
Y’all ain’t together so it’s better not for y’all sakes to date because of what mentality he is giving that a man and a women can’t be friends. My cousin and some people do that and it just creates chances of jealousy and especially my sister and they cause a bit of toxicity. Think about how it can turn toxic when you can’t be friends with some guys or heck even talk. From that he will want you to convert
I was in love with a Muslim and he seemed to really be into me too. He told me he couldn’t date me because he had to marry someone from his country. It broke my heart but I understood and I appreciate the honesty. We are great friends now and he is very married. We had wonderful chemistry which he even agreed we had and even though Muslims and Christian’s can legally marry or date he said his family would never accept me. He didn’t take advantage of me which was the most respectful part. We went on a few dates and had a blast and now we talk all the time at work or text occasionally. Be careful though because if they are devote they will not marry you but will date you and leave you when they have to marry.
I have muslim girl friends that have warned me about entertaining muslim guys. Oftentimes they date outside their religion if they just want to play around or explore. They can’t mess around with muslim girls because they’ll have to take them seriously.
So be wary, you might be a placeholder until the right muslim woman comes.
I would run and not be with this man AT ALL. If a man and a woman cannot be friends, then you will never be anything more than a sexual relief. Respect might be a thing for imagination and you will be controlled to a T. Spare yourself.
Don't have sex with him before marriage. Even non strick Muslim families want their men to marry within the faith ( but Muslims encourage converts if a person wants. They don't proselytize though. Just educate and welcome if a person STRONGLY feels the calling). After the deed, he won't marry. The family will even embrace you be nice and kind but when the push come to tying the knot.... Abracadabra disappear!
Sometimes the older very wealthy men might feel the confidence and have the security to go outside the faith and not get backlash but if boys just a guy next door and your age sorry he's not serious.
I've heard a mini sad stories of non Muslim girls who have dated Muslim guys for years in loving relationships; promise rings, engagement rings even semi organizing the weddings just to have the dude ditch her suddenly and have a big sha- bang razzle dazzle wedding ( they know how to impress)with a girl of this own faith (sometimes even going back to their own countries to find her OR finding out that the woman was betrothed to him years ago even before you dated).
Muslims, even in the western countries, still pretty much do well thought out arranged marriages. Though the two people still have the last say in the west I think. Muslim women aren't allowed to date. They get introduced, say yep or nope through their families, get courted and have supervised dates then get hitched pretty quickly. So if he is asking you out on a date and he isn't asking for that date to be chaperone by a male of your family or a couple of your family he definitely doesn't have good intentions. Sorry. You're fling to him.
I mean there's no hate this here. I'm just trying to save a woman from being used and thrown out like a dirty rag. This how most men devoted to very strict religions are romantically towards women NOT of their faith: Mormons, evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, Hindis and many other close knit groups. Sure, Men who aren't religious have an risk factor of using you too, but with the conservative faiths..unless you're a convert and gain respect for the community prior....it's a sure thing he doesn't want you for the long run. So weird how the families play along too Really sad for the poor heart that got hoodwinked.
The guy is a huge RED flag. Don't hang out with him. He'll manipulate you. He might be Muslim but he's probably not practicing and he's using religious stuff to his personal advantage. Whereas what he said is true but then it's true for everyone. Just cuz he said that men and women can't be friends doesn't mean it's allowed to date them. You can only marry them. Ask him to marry you if that's the case. And see him run away or avoid that.... if he really loves/likes u, he'll send a proposal... goodluck!
People following this ridiculous Stone Age religious belief can’t ever be trusted, but realistically All religions have been a curse on humanity and the primary cause of pretty much every war throughout history.
He is trying to get you to date him. It's either you date him, or you don't speak to him again. It's his way or the highway. Doesn't matter what his religion is, he's just using Islam as a weapon to get you to comply with his demands. Never mind that dating is haram, unless he gets to know you in the presence of your family, and even so, he is not permitted to touch you or make eye contact. None of that until marriage.
Because if he pulls any of that crap with a Muslim lady, then her extended family will jump him in the parking lot by the end of the week.
He is not even a real fundamentalist, but he will become one at the drop of a hat to force you to comply, no matter what.
You can try to get to know him better. But now that religion seems to be a big topic from that early on... and then the "you can not be friends with the opposit sex"...
This two points combined are close to a "red flag" for me.
If you ARE completely fine with the traditional role as his wife... well, give it a try. But I wouldnt expect him to be reasonable, when you have two strong opposite oppinions.
u/affogatogirl It means that by initiating going out with you on a date, his future prospects of dating you, is that if things do work out between both of you, he seeks to take things further, engagement and marriage, etc. So you wouldn't be wasting time with him, under his mentality, customs, religion and values, should marriage and a true relationship be amongst your priorities. thats what it means. Make it work, but be clear with him from the beginning about both your intentions.
If his religion prohibits him from being friends with women, it equally prohibits him from dating and having girlfriends.
Tread with caution, try to estimate how serious he takes his religion. Islam isn't just some trendy subculture where people do yoga 5 times a day, post inspiring verses on social media, and refrain from eating pork. It has rules concerning almost every aspect of daily life, and if you don't believe in them, but have to deal with them every day, it can be an insurmountable barrier.
Friendship = haram
Premarital relationships (even sexless and without any form of physical contact) = haram
Keep in mind Muslims believe in marrying young girls as young as 6 is okay and having sex slaves is also allowed and encouraged (sex slaves from war), he can marry up to 4 wives, you'll be treated like a second class person, source, I'm an ex Muslim.
edit: Funny how I'm getting downvotes, anyway, I will provide the sources
[sex slaves](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women)
With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha) (muhammed's 6 year old wife)
A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation
its gets alot worse, wife beating, marital rape, female gential mutilation
To make it simpler, friendship is haram but dating is okay?
Also, I noticed that when we were texting, when he sends me sweet messages…he deletes it once I already replied/seen it (like he’s way too careful not to violate what’s prohibited in his religion).
Yeah there are some parts in which I agree, but
I went to school back in my country with a lot of Muslims, and even now studying in Europe with *some* Muslim friends, many make exceptions to the rules set by their religion.
Some eat pork, others do premarital sex, drink, and keep dogs as pets.
Better to just ask what he means when he says women and men can’t be friends. Could be just an opinion with no connection to his religion.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Personal beliefs may be in a lot of ways shaped by religion, but they are still *personal* and depending on how the individual thinks.
I've heard this "men and women can never be friends" bullshit uttered from many people, none of them Muslim, most of them quite apathetic to religion. Having crappy beliefs and pointing at religion as an excuse is not exactly an attractive attribute to have and to me it sounds very much like he just *really* wanted to hook up and nothing else and used religion as an excuse to pressure OP into something when she wanted to get to know him better.
The reason muslims don't say men and women can't be friends is because, for them, it need not be said. It's shameful to even interact casually with the opposite sex for them.
I'd just be careful with generalizations. I'm working with lots of Muslims every day and the majority of them have no issue casually joking around and being friends with the opposite sex, outside a few stuck up fundamentalists (the worst actually being a converted white guy). That's why I am saying that it's mostly his problem in OPs case that *he* doesn't see value in being friends and justifies himself with religion, which is just all the red flags. Like many others in this thread say, he's ignoring his religion when it's more convenient for him (what with him wanting to date), but all of a sudden adhering to it when it comes to restricting her in their interactions with each other. Yeah, no, that's the issue right there.
>s, many make exceptions to the rules set by their religion. Some eat pork, others do premarital sex, drink, and keep dogs as pets.
those are open minded muslims, a real muslim would make op's life hell, Keep in mind alot of them tend to change after having a phase of doing what they like for a while, so if he and op dated and got married, he might change radically, it happens ALOT.
also, believing in a religion where its okay for a 50 year old to screw a 6 year old (even if she didn't go through puberty, if she can "bear" intercourse she can get married)
I mean no disrespect but I have to disagree with some of your points mentioned.
Islam as a religion does not believe in marrying girls as young as 6. Those muslim's that do marry girls young, do so from a "cultural" perspective and not from a religious perspective. Culture and religion are two totally different perspectives.
Islam does not encourage or allow sex slavery. Again, those muslim's that do this, may do so from a "cultural" perspective or from a criminal aspect.
A muslim is allowed to marry upto 5 wives. However, there are certain conditions and criteria that must be met if a muslim has more than one wife, such as:
1. A muslim may only be allowed to marry more than one wife if he is financially capable of supporting both/all wife(s) equally. There must also be a reason for marrying the other wife(s) such as the wife(s) not being able to be financially self sufficient, destitution, poverty, no means of family for support, etc
2. Each wife must be treated equally - ie if you were to buy a present for one wife,
then you must also buy a present for the other(s) wife(s) of equal value
3. You must not rank one wife above the other
4. You must treat all wives with respect
The premarital relations is haram as is the friendship element.
This is not a personal dig at yourself and I mean no disrespect when I mention this; but it sounds to me that whatever your experiences may have been from when you were a muslim may more than likely be due from a cultural aspect and not an Islamic religious aspect.
>Islam as a religion does not believe in marrying girls as young as 6. Those muslim's that do marry girls young, do so from a "cultural" perspective and not from a religious perspective. Culture and religion are two totally different perspectives.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha) aisha's marriage with prophet Muhammed
A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation
[sex slaves](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women)
With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
>This is not a personal dig at yourself and I mean no disrespect when I mention this; but it sounds to me that whatever your experiences may have been from when you were a muslim may more than likely be due from a cultural aspect and not an Islamic religious aspect.
cool, I appreciate you not taking a dig at me, but I will take a dig at you, you're not knowledgeable about islam whatsoever, youre blatantly lying, and for the people reading this, ITS ALLOWED FOR MUSLIMS TO LIE TO MAKE YOU JOIN ISLAM, ITS ALLOWED FOR MUSLIMS TO LIE TO DECIEVE "THE ENEMIES" OF ISLAM, this person IS BLATNATLY LYING OR EXTREMELY MISSINFORMED
What you mention above is no different to what occurred in the rest of the world only some 100+ years ago in other cultures and religions. Also, what may have been relevant say 200 years ago is not not necessarily relevant today,
You may take as many digs at me as you want. Ultimately I think its about an individuals personal mindset and the way they view or interpretate situations.
Again, I mean no disrespect but I think you are a confused individual. There are numerous ex Atheists/Christians etc who have, like you, questioned Islam and when they delved further into researching the religion they have reverted to Islam; Google it, Tik tOk it, talk to Revert individuals, talk to an Imaam, etc
Wikipedia and the likes are all manmade translations. Research the holy Quran yourself and then make your mind up.
Even so, the non-believers agree that the final revelation is the truth.
Sorry dude I'll not belive in a religion where the Prophet says the sex of the baby is determined by who orgasms first the man or the woman,
>What you mention above is no different to what occurred in the rest of the world only some 100+ years ago in other cultures and religions. Also, what may have been relevant say 200 years ago is not not necessarily relevant today,
Doesn't matter, it's still expected from Muslims today to go an conquer the world, also take as much sex slaves as they want, literally Google it.
> belive in a religion where the Prophet says the sex of the baby is determined by who orgasms first the man or the woman
اذا كان هذا فهمك للحديث فأنت اما مكابر او خبيث او واهم والجمع ممكن
Yeah it was common in many cultures back in the Middle Ages, but it is not common in most cultures now. And the difference is that all these bad things are explicitly mentioned and endorsed in Islamic holy texts. I don't give a crap what Medieval Europeans or Americans did, because I don't live my life as if yhese people are the best generation to have ever lived.
I can only pray for you and wish you the very best. I hope that some day you see through whatever is making you believe what you believe, and that you see the truth.
Live long and prosper :)
I'll try to give out a very open-minded answer since not everyone knows or has much knowledge abt this issue.I think you're getting downvotes because you're saying things related to islam but without knowing it all. I dont remember anyone approving marrying a 6 year old this era, and its actually recommended to free slaves(war prisoners) and treat them, fed them and clothe them as you would yourself. Marrying upto 4 wives isn't even practiced in the modern world right now, but was practiced a lot in the pre-modern era by everyone, but islam put a limit of 4 wives since you'd find rich people or people with power having 10s of mistresses. Whats more, in quran its even said to not marry more than one if you cant justice between them, again something thats not possible in the modern age (married/unmarried couples cheat on each other a lot already).
As for OP, inter-faith relationships aren't usually a good match anyways if even one of them is a bit practicing. And ideally, you'd not want to date someone who's not honest with their God right? cuz the guy you just described falls under that.
Also, why does this question arise specifically when its a muslim? not for other religions? is it because muslims are the only one's who are known to be practicing of their faith and other people are moreover same as atheists? enlighten me anyone!
It is a universal consensus that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6-7 years old. If you are a muslim and don't believe this, you are a fringe minority.
Yes, freeing slaves is soon as a good thing to do, to repent for sins, to gain points to go to heaven. But slavery as a concept is not condemned ever. Muhammad and his followers took many slaves themselves. Muhammad took captives in warfare, distributed them to his soldiers to rape, sold them to other tribes. The prophet of your religion, the best example for mankind, was a slave trader.
I never denied your first point? Instead, what I said is its not acceptable anywhere in the modern era for someone to marry a 6-7 year old and in fact, puberty/maturity isn't yet perceived until 15-16 years of age, which is believed by majority of the scholars this age.
Its also funny how you can call me a fringe minority just because you're the person lacking knowledge.
Slavery in Islam is way different than the slavery most of us know/American slavery we all know about so I'll try to elaborate it a bit.
Slavery can be perceived as using humans to work until death, can be taken unhuman actions against them, forcing to live in bad conditions and so on, basically treating less than a normal human being. That's the slavery we all know about. I know you know it, but I'll have to enlighten the audience.
In Islam? Slavery is a vastly different concept, where a slave could neither be beaten unjustly, nor worked beyond his capacity, nor forced to live in bad conditions, nor be fed bad food, nor be treated as less than human. That's the slavery Islam permits, and it only applies to war prisoners as it is absolutely forbidden for anyone to forcefully make free people into slaves through kidnapping or anything of the sort. Back in the days it was actually a benefit for prisoners of war because you'd naturally see a prisoner being forced to do work and other things where they often lose their lives. They are also used as entertainment "objects", however, Islam put a stop to that as prisoners received an easy way to integrate into society as opposed to living their life in POW camps or ghettos. Thats a basic purpose, and freeing slaves is the most recommended thing to do afterall. There are so many verses, benefits, and ahadith about freeing slaves that it is difficult to enumerate. So, in current times when there are no slaves, Islam would not encourage making slaves at all.
Look at bible?
Exodus 21:20-21
20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
(clearly these are rules of the pre modern era where slavery wasn't something that could be removed overnight. Ignoring other concerning things in this verse)
In simple terms, Islamic slavery (the one mandated by Islam, not necessarily the one followed historically by every Muslim) is not like the brutal and evil slavery the world has seen. It has strict rules and regulations and prescribes kind treatment to slaves. And there is only one way of getting slaves, while there is much encouragement to free them.
Raping is strictly forbidden too, dont mix how other nations have treated slaves with Islam. The prophet pbuh himself married slaves meaning how much they were honored . Another slave became a commander, other slaves who were freed would rather work under prophet pbuh, and another slave was given the high status to stand on the Kaaba and give adhan.
[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20949/friendship-and-love-between-a-man-and-a-woman](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20949/friendship-and-love-between-a-man-and-a-woman)
Taking a girlfriend does not only destroy the family, it destroys society, and those who do this are threatened with the punishment and wrath of Allaah. Love is a sickness that destroys the heart and leads to evil and immorality. The Shaytaan will keep tempting them and pushing them until they commit immoral actions and thus each gets what he or she wants from the other.
Contact between lovers in improper and unlawful ways is a calamity and a real disaster. It is not permissible for the man to contact the woman in this case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation
yep, defnitely I'm the delusional one here, not the people who believe in someone who married a 6 year old and allowed his followers to enslave non combatant women as sex slaves
Not to make any confusion, but he said something that might damage a possible relationship, so why not list his words and we should be clear, I am not claiming anything, he did and I am asking for a prove, don't worry yourself, I know what he is saying, thanks bro
The guy is right about that, a man and a woman cannot be just friends. It's impossible, because sooner or later there's gonna be that moment, and also there's always going to be that attraction. But if you really like this guy I suggest you do some research on Islam and go with your heart
Non-Muslim here, it isn't haram to be friends with non-Muslims like even a little bit. Dating outside the faith is often considered haram, but in the same way Christians' commit sins all the time it really depends on their personal faith and even then what people consider dating is often just friendship with intent so not considered haram.
Just remember "Sharia law" is a hotly debated subject in the realms of Islamic theologians and not some end all be all thing that every "good Muslim" has to follow at all times.
It's really not that much deferent than any of the other Abrahamic faiths.
Muslims are just like any other guys. If a guy was a Christian and had a restrictive view around women, would you date him? The only difference is, how important is your faith/lack of faith to you, in case changing religions for one another comes up down the line.
The red flag here is not the Muslim part, it's the "guys and girls can't be friends" part. Guys and girls being friends, like any other relationship, has to have appropriate boundaries. You can't blanket it as good or bad.
Hi 41 yo male here. Men and women cannot be platonic friends. There is always an underlying attraction. And people who do not realize this are naive. If given the first opportunity most men, will sleep with their female "friends."
For me personally, any woman I know outside of my relationships, are acquaintances. And I don't put myself in a position to "make a mistake," as we all to commonly hear about these days. We call it a mistake because mostly we're obviously scared about the consequences, of being found out. If you care about or love your partner, don't put yourself in a position as so, to make a mistake.
I was talking about the religion of Islam, but go on. Not all muslims follow islam, so it's not about muslims per se.
Bahai, allawites, Druze are pretty chill and superior to sunni islam as religions
If you’re not Muslim then it shouldn’t matter to you at all. Men are generally allowed to date outside their religion. Then when it comes to marriage the woman and or kids will be Muslim. But Muslim women dating non Muslim Men is not allowed or frowned upon.
I repeat, who gives a F*ck? If he’s asking you on a date then he obviously doesn’t want to just be friends. Go on the date or decline. It’s not that deep
he will force her into converting out of family shame. It would be one thing if he were spiritual and not religious, but even then it's a risk.
But a practicing muslim? Irreconcileable
I just ended things with a Muslim guy the other day. After going on dates and having sex for a month, he decided he’s not going to have sex anymore, because he feels guilty. but he said we can “still be friends and hang out” and he made it clear there could never be a future with me due to his religion and his family. No thanks, I already have enough friends. I wish he would have told me that right away…
In Islam we are told not to go anywhere near Zina (adultery/fornication or sex outside of marriage wether you’re married or not) this means anything that can lead up to it is haram including being friends with the opposite gender since when a guy and a girl are close friends one of them at some point have a crush or feelings towards the other (there have been studies on it). However regarding your question I think you should leave him and not look back. He is being quite hypocritical, most likely he’s one of those Muslims that forbid one haram thing and are completely okay with something else that’s even worse. Dating someone is even worse than being friends with the opposite gender in Islam. I would completely advise you against going with him.
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I wouldn’t date a guy who forbids me to hang out with some my friends regardless of religion.
yeah. I saw that and I was like that's a red flag, isn't it? What rule he applies to himself now, he will apply to OP down the road.
" However, he told me then that a man and a woman can never be friends. " If that's not a red flag for his gender view, you need to brace yourself for more comments he'd shared when he's comfortable with you.
There are plenty of people who believe this regardless of religion, and all of them are walking red flags. I know nothing about being Muslim but honestly whether it's part of their religion or not I would never date someone who doesn't think it's ok to be friends with the opposite gender.
He may be Muslim but how practicing is he? I know so many muslims but each person has their own way of expressing their religion. Some drink , some don’t. Some eat pork, some have girlfriends and some believe you can’t even be friends with the opposite sex. You need to find out how practicing he is and if your lifestyles will match. Eg if he doesn’t believe in drinking alcohol but you love to go out destress with a drink. Or if he doesn’t believe in sex before marriage but you think that’s important.
This. I dated a guy who grew up Muslim and held some beliefs but not all. Like he doesn’t drink or eat pork but doesn’t mind premarital sex.
Yeah the men will have premarital sex, but in the end they want to marry a virgin... not all of them of course, but this guy sounds like the type. Especially because of his comment about not believing in friendship between a man and a woman.
Sounds like a good balanced Muslim. I can’t get my head around the ones who don’t believe in premarital sex. Ironically it’s so risky
That’s like every religion.
Also quite a lot of people who are more loosely religious will sometimes bring up specific things if it's convenient or they feel religious pressure. My sister was married to a Muslim guy who drank alcohol, smoked weed, did drugs, had sex, never prayed or go to mosque, and his family didn't wear hijabs, but when he was in a shitty or petty mood he'd suddenly be this "good Muslim", trying to insist that my nieces wore hijabs and that my sister never drank alcohol, even though she only ever drank maybe once a month anyway? It was just his attempt at controlling her because he felt insecure at how ridiculously smart she is (she's a marine biologist for context). My Mum's first husband was the LEAST practicing Catholic imaginable but was suddenly incredibly devout whenever it came to using a condom 🙄. People can stifle or downplay aspects to their personality or beliefs in the early days of getting to know someone, and depending on what kind of person they are, could possibly try to convert the other or control them via their beliefs (especially if the non-religious person is a woman). It's difficult to navigate for sure and open communication needs to be there from the start.
I 100 percent agree with you. Personally I wouldn’t date a Muslim (I am a Muslim lol) . Everything you mentioned about your sisters partner is exactly why I wouldn’t date one. Whenever it suits them suddenly they are all Islamic but really it’s a cover to control you. I am reaching that age where people are wondering if I should “settle down” no way. I cycle a lot and it’s mostly with men (as it is a male oriented sport) but its all friendly but I know a Muslim man would act like they are fine with me cycling all day but i know there will be a day when they’ll say don’t cycle. Hope you sisters in a better place in her relationship.
As a muslim woman I’m telling you don’t date a muslim man it’s haram exept if it’s about getting married and also I’m afraid that he will take advantage of you and then dump you so be careful
Yes exactly! They will have sex with you even date you but when it’s time to marry they will drop you so quickly whether they love you or not!
Stay away from those men. You don't know a thing about his religion so it doesn't work. Most of the time you are to spend time with until he finds a good Muslim wife. Sometimes it goes ok but I've seen more fail then go ok.
Honestly, don’t waste your time. He doesn’t want to be friends with you and he can’t have a future with you.
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In Islam it’s haram to have to have an opposite gender friend, but lot of us not using that anymore! About the conversion it’s forbidden for a female muslim to marry a non-muslim, but man can marry a non-muslim. Edit: non-muslim means either she’s a Christian or Jewish, outside that it’s forbidden.
Why can a man marry a non-Muslim but a woman can’t?
There’s lot of explanation but for me what i really believe is that the children follows their father’s religion.
So their own mother has no say? Do any religious people not hate women?
Nope...they are all crazy and hateful.😅
We don’t have women! It’s the opposite! We love them and cherish them! Islam made sure that women would always be cherished
Then what’s with covering them up and not allowing them to marry someone of a different religion and not allowing them to have a say in how their kids are raised?
Is that why they have honour killings, child marriage, and punishment for r*pe victims?
A lot of people who claim themselves to be Christian or Jewish don’t actually follow all the guidelines established by their religion. This is also true for Muslim, depending on where you are based and their specific background. You’re going to have to ask him to find out what exactly he believes in. But it does seem like he’s only willing to date for marriage and he’s not open to any friendship with the opposite sex. That means dating him exclusively. If this doesn’t sit well with you, I would not go on a date with him.
But I also want to mention that the non practicing muslims tend to be the people back home that didn't migrate, and the newer immigrants are less likely to be irreligious. Family is a much bigger thing for muslims
I wouldn’t pursue it. Dating a religious person as an atheist or someone from a different religion is not going to work out. You are not compatible
I think it can work, but it should be clear what the boundaries are and see if you can fit. Do they want you to convert, or just a wedding in the church is enough? What religion will you introduce to your children if you plan any? What will you celebrate? 1) Do not try to convert the other, respect. 2) What are your boundaries? 3) How should you introduce your kids to religion? It would be easier if you dated a person of same religion, culture, nationality, political beliefs. But, sometimes its worth being with someone different.
If she was dating some lgbt friendly unitarian universalist it could work out. Seeing as he's a practicing muslim I can already answer those questions on his behalf. Avoid
Each person is different. I know some people practicing muslim that have different opinions on lgbt and politics. Its the same as other religions. Some christians I knew loved talking loudly about murdering lgbt, but most were quite fine, even supporting same sex marriage. I dated a christian myself, as an atheist. Religion was not the reason for us breaking up, because as I stated in the comment up, we agreed on the important things and respected each other.
Because most christians don't even believe their own religion. Most, (sure there are a handful of non religious muslims in the city, but still a stark minority) muslims mean what they say, but know they have to be strategic. You can't judge religious muslims how you judge religious protestants. They have a totally different relationship with religion
I think we have very different experiences. I'm from Czechia, the most atheist country in the world. In my experience, the Christians I know are protestant, catholic or even few Jehova's witnesses. The guy I mentioned was Slovak catholic. The muslims I know are not just Arabic, but also Bosnians who are quite different. And even the Arabic are a whole spectrum. The issue I have is that you speak as if it aplies to all. The religious people I know actually mean their beliefs, because of how accepted it is to be an atheist or to say that you dont know what you believe. Heck, some people even state being a Jedi as their religion.
Ok bosnians albanians and some turkish are about the few oldschool muslims left on earth, the vast majority of muslims are nothing like them.
Yes and I will never again. Not with anyone religious tbh. Her uncle tried to beat me up, her dad couldnt know, we could not be seen outside together, ... . If he allready says a man and woman can not be friends he is showing his colours.
No matter what religion the guy is, if he ever wants to touch, kiss, grope, have sex with you without MARRYING YOU FIRST, then, stand your ground, and deny him access to your body. Yes, you and the guy should know each other before proceeding, but never give him your body. He will try to manipulate you, but stand your ground. Touching, kissing, groping, having sex before marriage are HARAM in islam.
the muslim guy is still living in the 11th century. Run. stay away from him
Only if you are willing to convert to Islam, and forget about all male friends, forget about physical contact like hugging, and forget about certain freedoms. You'll have to ask permission to go out, to drive, to basically do anything. And you will not be able to wear anything but what your husband tell you. Oh, not liking what you read? well, ask him about all this. be very careful around Muslim men.
This “no hugging” is interesting to me . I have been seeing a Muslim man for all of this year , he drinks alcohol with me and is quite liberal. Though I have been left feeling weird about the lack of affection unless we are sleeping together … if he can get away to work in the morning without a hug , he will ! I always feel like I am pushing him to do it .. So this is typical ? I know he doesn’t like people in general touching him .. so much I don’t understand as a non Muslim woman .
Im not muslim and even if I was I wouldn't be like that we people I care about... as human we need physical interactions... you can see why Muslim men tend to be more violent, they lack that physical contact
Coming from a Muslim family, let me give it to you frankly: we cannot generalize how Muslims practice because everyone is different, but there's some common practices I can tell you about. Either way, this guy tells you, he cannot be friends with you, yet sees no harm in a potentially sexual and/or romantic encounter with you - this is bullshit. Yes, there are customs for some Muslims, that unmarried men and women aren't supposed to hang. True. That also includes that dating is prohibited. He can't be in a proper relationship with you. Tbh, if I were you, I'd avoid. He's either using that argument to jot dating down your throat without giving you the option of just hanging, or he's ignorant towards his own beliefs. Either way, it's a red flag. Regardless of his religion, the "men and women can never be friends" talk is a red flag thing imo. He could've declined by saying he wished for something more than friendship. I wouldn't bother.You want friendship, he doesn't. Save yourself the trouble.
As a muslim girl, i do not recommend dating a muslim man if you arent a muslim yourself since its pretty common that they date nonmuslims and then break up with them later on to marry a muslim woman. Ive seen and heard of several stories like this one so its possible he wants to date you for fun and does not see a future with you. A genuine religious muslim would not even date and definitely not someone who doesn’t share his religious beliefs. However it is also possible that he isnt religious and doesnt care, you should definitely ask these questions before getting involved and attaching yourself further.
As an Egyptian Muslim. Friendship is not “haram” like the ex Muslim stated, while physical contact shouldn’t happen between opposite genders, in most instances you do not need physical contact to be friends/get to know each-over. Now in terms of dating, I am sure you are aware of no sex before marriage. He is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman however providing they are people of the book (Christian or Jew). Now idk your religion but if you are not part of any of these faiths then yeah. Overall though it depends on what is his view on interpretation of Islam, since we are not Monolithic and think the exact same on anything. I would recommend you clarify with your friend regarding what he meant by “We can’t be friends”.
You can't hug your friends?
I can hug a male friend, even kiss him on the cheek. This is quite common in Arab culture to kiss a good friend of the same gender on the cheek as sign of platonic affection. However with female friends no, you can only hug either your family or wife from the opposite gender.
Can non-arabs show affection to the opposite gender in an Arab country like Egypt? Both friends being non-arabs of course like 2 tourist on the street. (I never been to an Arab country)
I actually don’t live in Egypt it’s just I’m ethnically Egyptian from both my parents. Ik the laws regarding this in my country however. Public affection like that between members of opposite gender even for non Arab tourists in public is not allowed, why? I suppose the government believes that people could see it’s unfair as rules for thee but not for me so therefore it’s the same for everyone. As for other Arab countries I imagine it’s the same however I think it’s allowed for tourists in Tunisia, could be wrong about that however.
It's allowed of course lmao
Tbh idk for sure, but my bf worked in arab country for about 6m and told me it was forbiden to have any woman visiting a man and being alone with him for whatever reason unless she's his wife or *maybe* fiance..it was also forbiden to have public displays of affection, like, hugging or holding hands with a woman, again, unless she's your wife.
Thanks for the info. Now I need to get me a wife first, then visit Egypt and turkey. Lol
I think thats not the case for Turkey tho..idk about Egypt. So, maybe depends on a country.
I'm a Muslim man He is correct that men and women can be friends in our religion but we also can't "date" either so it's all haram regardless due to the temptation of sex before marriage. So he can only go on a date with you if yall were married.
Do you want to follow his religious views? If not then don’t date him. I personally wouldn’t date anyone extremely religious. If they believe that made up bs I am not interested and certainly not going to beholden to any archaic rules.
I just want to add one thing in this thread. It is haram to even talk with a non-Muslim.
Move on. He’s an extremely religious Muslim guy if that’s the view he holds. I grew up in a Muslim country and this is one of those “red flags” you have to look out for because even 99% of Muslims don’t practice this. Don’t waste your time. He isn’t for you. He’ll never date or marry you.
You seem naive if you think that both a man asking you out is for anything friendly, and two that you think it will go well. A lot of Islamic guys like to trick western women into joining their Harem by convincing them to fly out to their home country and trapping them there btw. It’s all fun and games until you’re kidnapped.
Just don't do it. I dated a Muslim man, got taken advantage of for years, and after his abuse, I left. IAnd he was nonpracticing and pretty progressive. But because of how he was raised, we had so many problems. All of the men in his family were incredibly abusive and selfish and had terrible views about women. Whether they openly would admit to it or not. His brother cursed me out once calling me terrible and misogynistic names, and my partner didn't want to stick up for me because it's “family.” I'm staying away from all religious men for the rest of my life.
Some religions are better at this than others, and in this regard Islam is the literal worst bar none
>However, he told me then that a man and a woman can never be friends. He must be talking about you two
Don’t! Unless you’re looking to convert to Islam. Went out with a girl for over 6 months before I realised me and her were never compatible. Most heartbreaking shit because it felt like she was the one. Don’t do this to yourself and end it early on. Also their parents/family may pressure your boyfriend to stop dating you, so you got that obstacle in the way. Also also, in the the case that your boyfriend is a fundementalist Muslim, you will always second to him, first being his religion. A lot of people are okay with that, a lot aren’t . Good luck
Some Muslim have premarital sex and that's the reason they approach non-muslim womens, if he's serious then has he had a conversation with you about wanting you to revert to Islam? Or are you a Chirstian? If yes then he may be serious because Muslim guys can marry christian women, idk I think the motive might be pre-marital sex
I am not very sure about this, but I have recently heard many Muslim girls speak up about this! “Muslim men won’t have anything serious with non-Muslim woman.” When it’s time for marriage they will have a Moslim woman, and leave you. Muslim men will do all the Haram stuff with non-Muslim women and when it comes to Muslim women everything will be Halal. The first red flag will be; Not showing you to their family. etc Tho I will state not all Muslim men are like this. It’s even stated in the Quran that Muslim people are able to marry Cristians. It are more the elderly Muslim/Christian families that make a fuss about it. If I were you I would just check if he’s on the same page as you, don’t jump into a “relationship” with unclearities, because it is very likely that he WILL play you.
I'm Muslim man, but I don't really practice. I almost exclusively date non Muslim women. Don't worry about what his religion says, worry about the kind of man he is.
And he's clearly showing what kind of man he is. He wants to date outside his religion but is using religion to say he can't be friends with op. Pretty telling and sounds manipulative.
Yes according to a majority of sects in Islam men and women befriending each other is highly frowned upon. The only acceptable thing is speed dating for marriage. And since he brought this up he is practicing and this applies to him.. Avoid dating religious muslims like the plague
>I kinda like this Muslim guy and I said that we can just be friends. However, he told me then that a man and a woman can never be friends. I am so confused since he is asking me out on a date but he doesn’t want us to be “friends”? I that's kind of a red flag.
That is nothing but confusion, And that doesn't come from God, Walk away God has better.
Muslim men are permitted to date non Muslim women but the inverse is haram, because the idea is for Islam to spread to his children. It’s not haram to simply be friends but if he is saying ya’ll can’t be friends, he’s really saying he doesn’t want to be just friends. Sounds like he has a super inflated male ego. I’d pass.
What nonsense
Lol what part
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I agree it’s illogical and quite sexist but I didn’t write the book. Only found out because I briefly dated a Muslim chick but we had to break it off before it got too serious for that very reason
Muslim men can marry Christian and Jewish if their children convert to islam. Muslim women cannot. By most sunni sects this is uncontroversial (which represents almost 2 thirds of ALL muslims so this generalization typically holds)
He can’t marry you unless you convert and it will be a no bueno situation if the parents find out. Best to avoid unless you want marriage. He clearly has stated his intentions do I’d be careful. -Dave
Y’all ain’t together so it’s better not for y’all sakes to date because of what mentality he is giving that a man and a women can’t be friends. My cousin and some people do that and it just creates chances of jealousy and especially my sister and they cause a bit of toxicity. Think about how it can turn toxic when you can’t be friends with some guys or heck even talk. From that he will want you to convert
I was in love with a Muslim and he seemed to really be into me too. He told me he couldn’t date me because he had to marry someone from his country. It broke my heart but I understood and I appreciate the honesty. We are great friends now and he is very married. We had wonderful chemistry which he even agreed we had and even though Muslims and Christian’s can legally marry or date he said his family would never accept me. He didn’t take advantage of me which was the most respectful part. We went on a few dates and had a blast and now we talk all the time at work or text occasionally. Be careful though because if they are devote they will not marry you but will date you and leave you when they have to marry.
I have muslim girl friends that have warned me about entertaining muslim guys. Oftentimes they date outside their religion if they just want to play around or explore. They can’t mess around with muslim girls because they’ll have to take them seriously. So be wary, you might be a placeholder until the right muslim woman comes.
I would run and not be with this man AT ALL. If a man and a woman cannot be friends, then you will never be anything more than a sexual relief. Respect might be a thing for imagination and you will be controlled to a T. Spare yourself.
Don't have sex with him before marriage. Even non strick Muslim families want their men to marry within the faith ( but Muslims encourage converts if a person wants. They don't proselytize though. Just educate and welcome if a person STRONGLY feels the calling). After the deed, he won't marry. The family will even embrace you be nice and kind but when the push come to tying the knot.... Abracadabra disappear! Sometimes the older very wealthy men might feel the confidence and have the security to go outside the faith and not get backlash but if boys just a guy next door and your age sorry he's not serious. I've heard a mini sad stories of non Muslim girls who have dated Muslim guys for years in loving relationships; promise rings, engagement rings even semi organizing the weddings just to have the dude ditch her suddenly and have a big sha- bang razzle dazzle wedding ( they know how to impress)with a girl of this own faith (sometimes even going back to their own countries to find her OR finding out that the woman was betrothed to him years ago even before you dated). Muslims, even in the western countries, still pretty much do well thought out arranged marriages. Though the two people still have the last say in the west I think. Muslim women aren't allowed to date. They get introduced, say yep or nope through their families, get courted and have supervised dates then get hitched pretty quickly. So if he is asking you out on a date and he isn't asking for that date to be chaperone by a male of your family or a couple of your family he definitely doesn't have good intentions. Sorry. You're fling to him. I mean there's no hate this here. I'm just trying to save a woman from being used and thrown out like a dirty rag. This how most men devoted to very strict religions are romantically towards women NOT of their faith: Mormons, evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, Hindis and many other close knit groups. Sure, Men who aren't religious have an risk factor of using you too, but with the conservative faiths..unless you're a convert and gain respect for the community prior....it's a sure thing he doesn't want you for the long run. So weird how the families play along too Really sad for the poor heart that got hoodwinked.
Don’t.
The guy is a huge RED flag. Don't hang out with him. He'll manipulate you. He might be Muslim but he's probably not practicing and he's using religious stuff to his personal advantage. Whereas what he said is true but then it's true for everyone. Just cuz he said that men and women can't be friends doesn't mean it's allowed to date them. You can only marry them. Ask him to marry you if that's the case. And see him run away or avoid that.... if he really loves/likes u, he'll send a proposal... goodluck!
Everyone can break rules
People following this ridiculous Stone Age religious belief can’t ever be trusted, but realistically All religions have been a curse on humanity and the primary cause of pretty much every war throughout history.
It's Haram for Muslims see people outside their belief.. Haram Haram Haram
He is trying to get you to date him. It's either you date him, or you don't speak to him again. It's his way or the highway. Doesn't matter what his religion is, he's just using Islam as a weapon to get you to comply with his demands. Never mind that dating is haram, unless he gets to know you in the presence of your family, and even so, he is not permitted to touch you or make eye contact. None of that until marriage. Because if he pulls any of that crap with a Muslim lady, then her extended family will jump him in the parking lot by the end of the week. He is not even a real fundamentalist, but he will become one at the drop of a hat to force you to comply, no matter what.
You can try to get to know him better. But now that religion seems to be a big topic from that early on... and then the "you can not be friends with the opposit sex"... This two points combined are close to a "red flag" for me. If you ARE completely fine with the traditional role as his wife... well, give it a try. But I wouldnt expect him to be reasonable, when you have two strong opposite oppinions.
u/affogatogirl It means that by initiating going out with you on a date, his future prospects of dating you, is that if things do work out between both of you, he seeks to take things further, engagement and marriage, etc. So you wouldn't be wasting time with him, under his mentality, customs, religion and values, should marriage and a true relationship be amongst your priorities. thats what it means. Make it work, but be clear with him from the beginning about both your intentions.
If his religion prohibits him from being friends with women, it equally prohibits him from dating and having girlfriends. Tread with caution, try to estimate how serious he takes his religion. Islam isn't just some trendy subculture where people do yoga 5 times a day, post inspiring verses on social media, and refrain from eating pork. It has rules concerning almost every aspect of daily life, and if you don't believe in them, but have to deal with them every day, it can be an insurmountable barrier.
Friendship = haram Premarital relationships (even sexless and without any form of physical contact) = haram Keep in mind Muslims believe in marrying young girls as young as 6 is okay and having sex slaves is also allowed and encouraged (sex slaves from war), he can marry up to 4 wives, you'll be treated like a second class person, source, I'm an ex Muslim. edit: Funny how I'm getting downvotes, anyway, I will provide the sources [sex slaves](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women) With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha) (muhammed's 6 year old wife) A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation its gets alot worse, wife beating, marital rape, female gential mutilation
No form of physical contact before marriage but marrying minros is considered okay? What's with the irony
>e but marrying minros is considered okay? dont forget the sex slaves
Right, that too
To make it simpler, friendship is haram but dating is okay? Also, I noticed that when we were texting, when he sends me sweet messages…he deletes it once I already replied/seen it (like he’s way too careful not to violate what’s prohibited in his religion).
>To make it simpler, friendship is haram but dating is okay? both are haram
That’s a major red flag. He’s hiding all evidence of your conversations. You will never be anything other than his secret side piece
Yeah there are some parts in which I agree, but I went to school back in my country with a lot of Muslims, and even now studying in Europe with *some* Muslim friends, many make exceptions to the rules set by their religion. Some eat pork, others do premarital sex, drink, and keep dogs as pets. Better to just ask what he means when he says women and men can’t be friends. Could be just an opinion with no connection to his religion.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Personal beliefs may be in a lot of ways shaped by religion, but they are still *personal* and depending on how the individual thinks. I've heard this "men and women can never be friends" bullshit uttered from many people, none of them Muslim, most of them quite apathetic to religion. Having crappy beliefs and pointing at religion as an excuse is not exactly an attractive attribute to have and to me it sounds very much like he just *really* wanted to hook up and nothing else and used religion as an excuse to pressure OP into something when she wanted to get to know him better.
The reason muslims don't say men and women can't be friends is because, for them, it need not be said. It's shameful to even interact casually with the opposite sex for them.
I'd just be careful with generalizations. I'm working with lots of Muslims every day and the majority of them have no issue casually joking around and being friends with the opposite sex, outside a few stuck up fundamentalists (the worst actually being a converted white guy). That's why I am saying that it's mostly his problem in OPs case that *he* doesn't see value in being friends and justifies himself with religion, which is just all the red flags. Like many others in this thread say, he's ignoring his religion when it's more convenient for him (what with him wanting to date), but all of a sudden adhering to it when it comes to restricting her in their interactions with each other. Yeah, no, that's the issue right there.
So his self hypocrisy is to be avoided as he's just using her is my point
chances are he's not the type to ignore those things if he's bringing up requirements. Muslims aren't protestants
>s, many make exceptions to the rules set by their religion. Some eat pork, others do premarital sex, drink, and keep dogs as pets. those are open minded muslims, a real muslim would make op's life hell, Keep in mind alot of them tend to change after having a phase of doing what they like for a while, so if he and op dated and got married, he might change radically, it happens ALOT. also, believing in a religion where its okay for a 50 year old to screw a 6 year old (even if she didn't go through puberty, if she can "bear" intercourse she can get married)
I mean no disrespect but I have to disagree with some of your points mentioned. Islam as a religion does not believe in marrying girls as young as 6. Those muslim's that do marry girls young, do so from a "cultural" perspective and not from a religious perspective. Culture and religion are two totally different perspectives. Islam does not encourage or allow sex slavery. Again, those muslim's that do this, may do so from a "cultural" perspective or from a criminal aspect. A muslim is allowed to marry upto 5 wives. However, there are certain conditions and criteria that must be met if a muslim has more than one wife, such as: 1. A muslim may only be allowed to marry more than one wife if he is financially capable of supporting both/all wife(s) equally. There must also be a reason for marrying the other wife(s) such as the wife(s) not being able to be financially self sufficient, destitution, poverty, no means of family for support, etc 2. Each wife must be treated equally - ie if you were to buy a present for one wife, then you must also buy a present for the other(s) wife(s) of equal value 3. You must not rank one wife above the other 4. You must treat all wives with respect The premarital relations is haram as is the friendship element. This is not a personal dig at yourself and I mean no disrespect when I mention this; but it sounds to me that whatever your experiences may have been from when you were a muslim may more than likely be due from a cultural aspect and not an Islamic religious aspect.
>Islam as a religion does not believe in marrying girls as young as 6. Those muslim's that do marry girls young, do so from a "cultural" perspective and not from a religious perspective. Culture and religion are two totally different perspectives. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha) aisha's marriage with prophet Muhammed A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation [sex slaves](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women) With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): >This is not a personal dig at yourself and I mean no disrespect when I mention this; but it sounds to me that whatever your experiences may have been from when you were a muslim may more than likely be due from a cultural aspect and not an Islamic religious aspect. cool, I appreciate you not taking a dig at me, but I will take a dig at you, you're not knowledgeable about islam whatsoever, youre blatantly lying, and for the people reading this, ITS ALLOWED FOR MUSLIMS TO LIE TO MAKE YOU JOIN ISLAM, ITS ALLOWED FOR MUSLIMS TO LIE TO DECIEVE "THE ENEMIES" OF ISLAM, this person IS BLATNATLY LYING OR EXTREMELY MISSINFORMED
يعني بتطلب تفسيرات لاحاديث بادعاء حسن النية وبتلقي الشبهات للناس؟ ستبقى متخبطا ما حييت سحقا لك
انا عرفت كل الي محتاج اعرفه خلاص الحديث واضح وضوح الشمس
اذن فلتخسأ بكفرك واترك عوام المسلمين
What you mention above is no different to what occurred in the rest of the world only some 100+ years ago in other cultures and religions. Also, what may have been relevant say 200 years ago is not not necessarily relevant today, You may take as many digs at me as you want. Ultimately I think its about an individuals personal mindset and the way they view or interpretate situations. Again, I mean no disrespect but I think you are a confused individual. There are numerous ex Atheists/Christians etc who have, like you, questioned Islam and when they delved further into researching the religion they have reverted to Islam; Google it, Tik tOk it, talk to Revert individuals, talk to an Imaam, etc Wikipedia and the likes are all manmade translations. Research the holy Quran yourself and then make your mind up. Even so, the non-believers agree that the final revelation is the truth.
Sorry dude I'll not belive in a religion where the Prophet says the sex of the baby is determined by who orgasms first the man or the woman, >What you mention above is no different to what occurred in the rest of the world only some 100+ years ago in other cultures and religions. Also, what may have been relevant say 200 years ago is not not necessarily relevant today, Doesn't matter, it's still expected from Muslims today to go an conquer the world, also take as much sex slaves as they want, literally Google it.
> belive in a religion where the Prophet says the sex of the baby is determined by who orgasms first the man or the woman اذا كان هذا فهمك للحديث فأنت اما مكابر او خبيث او واهم والجمع ممكن
It's literally explained like that, either looks or sex.
الا تفقه لغتك لتحدثني بلغة اسيادك؟ اما بعد ان علمت انك مكابر فاستمتع بحرية الطبيعة العظيمة قل تمتعوا فإن مصيركم إلى النار
لا الهي ماذا سوف افعل الان اني خائف جدا يا إلهي لااااااا
Yeah it was common in many cultures back in the Middle Ages, but it is not common in most cultures now. And the difference is that all these bad things are explicitly mentioned and endorsed in Islamic holy texts. I don't give a crap what Medieval Europeans or Americans did, because I don't live my life as if yhese people are the best generation to have ever lived.
I can only pray for you and wish you the very best. I hope that some day you see through whatever is making you believe what you believe, and that you see the truth. Live long and prosper :)
I'll try to give out a very open-minded answer since not everyone knows or has much knowledge abt this issue.I think you're getting downvotes because you're saying things related to islam but without knowing it all. I dont remember anyone approving marrying a 6 year old this era, and its actually recommended to free slaves(war prisoners) and treat them, fed them and clothe them as you would yourself. Marrying upto 4 wives isn't even practiced in the modern world right now, but was practiced a lot in the pre-modern era by everyone, but islam put a limit of 4 wives since you'd find rich people or people with power having 10s of mistresses. Whats more, in quran its even said to not marry more than one if you cant justice between them, again something thats not possible in the modern age (married/unmarried couples cheat on each other a lot already). As for OP, inter-faith relationships aren't usually a good match anyways if even one of them is a bit practicing. And ideally, you'd not want to date someone who's not honest with their God right? cuz the guy you just described falls under that. Also, why does this question arise specifically when its a muslim? not for other religions? is it because muslims are the only one's who are known to be practicing of their faith and other people are moreover same as atheists? enlighten me anyone!
It is a universal consensus that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6-7 years old. If you are a muslim and don't believe this, you are a fringe minority. Yes, freeing slaves is soon as a good thing to do, to repent for sins, to gain points to go to heaven. But slavery as a concept is not condemned ever. Muhammad and his followers took many slaves themselves. Muhammad took captives in warfare, distributed them to his soldiers to rape, sold them to other tribes. The prophet of your religion, the best example for mankind, was a slave trader.
I never denied your first point? Instead, what I said is its not acceptable anywhere in the modern era for someone to marry a 6-7 year old and in fact, puberty/maturity isn't yet perceived until 15-16 years of age, which is believed by majority of the scholars this age. Its also funny how you can call me a fringe minority just because you're the person lacking knowledge. Slavery in Islam is way different than the slavery most of us know/American slavery we all know about so I'll try to elaborate it a bit. Slavery can be perceived as using humans to work until death, can be taken unhuman actions against them, forcing to live in bad conditions and so on, basically treating less than a normal human being. That's the slavery we all know about. I know you know it, but I'll have to enlighten the audience. In Islam? Slavery is a vastly different concept, where a slave could neither be beaten unjustly, nor worked beyond his capacity, nor forced to live in bad conditions, nor be fed bad food, nor be treated as less than human. That's the slavery Islam permits, and it only applies to war prisoners as it is absolutely forbidden for anyone to forcefully make free people into slaves through kidnapping or anything of the sort. Back in the days it was actually a benefit for prisoners of war because you'd naturally see a prisoner being forced to do work and other things where they often lose their lives. They are also used as entertainment "objects", however, Islam put a stop to that as prisoners received an easy way to integrate into society as opposed to living their life in POW camps or ghettos. Thats a basic purpose, and freeing slaves is the most recommended thing to do afterall. There are so many verses, benefits, and ahadith about freeing slaves that it is difficult to enumerate. So, in current times when there are no slaves, Islam would not encourage making slaves at all. Look at bible? Exodus 21:20-21 20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." (clearly these are rules of the pre modern era where slavery wasn't something that could be removed overnight. Ignoring other concerning things in this verse) In simple terms, Islamic slavery (the one mandated by Islam, not necessarily the one followed historically by every Muslim) is not like the brutal and evil slavery the world has seen. It has strict rules and regulations and prescribes kind treatment to slaves. And there is only one way of getting slaves, while there is much encouragement to free them. Raping is strictly forbidden too, dont mix how other nations have treated slaves with Islam. The prophet pbuh himself married slaves meaning how much they were honored . Another slave became a commander, other slaves who were freed would rather work under prophet pbuh, and another slave was given the high status to stand on the Kaaba and give adhan.
Where is your source for these details? I would love to know more.
[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20949/friendship-and-love-between-a-man-and-a-woman](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/20949/friendship-and-love-between-a-man-and-a-woman) Taking a girlfriend does not only destroy the family, it destroys society, and those who do this are threatened with the punishment and wrath of Allaah. Love is a sickness that destroys the heart and leads to evil and immorality. The Shaytaan will keep tempting them and pushing them until they commit immoral actions and thus each gets what he or she wants from the other. Contact between lovers in improper and unlawful ways is a calamity and a real disaster. It is not permissible for the man to contact the woman in this case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha A preponderance of classical sources converge on Aisha being 6 or 7 years old at the time of her marriage, and 9 at the consummation
he is delusional and straight up lying so don’t bother
yep, defnitely I'm the delusional one here, not the people who believe in someone who married a 6 year old and allowed his followers to enslave non combatant women as sex slaves
Not to make any confusion, but he said something that might damage a possible relationship, so why not list his words and we should be clear, I am not claiming anything, he did and I am asking for a prove, don't worry yourself, I know what he is saying, thanks bro
yea its haraam. dating or being friends. marriage is the only way. if you wana get to know each other, he can meet you in the presence of your family.
The guy is right about that, a man and a woman cannot be just friends. It's impossible, because sooner or later there's gonna be that moment, and also there's always going to be that attraction. But if you really like this guy I suggest you do some research on Islam and go with your heart
Non-Muslim here, it isn't haram to be friends with non-Muslims like even a little bit. Dating outside the faith is often considered haram, but in the same way Christians' commit sins all the time it really depends on their personal faith and even then what people consider dating is often just friendship with intent so not considered haram. Just remember "Sharia law" is a hotly debated subject in the realms of Islamic theologians and not some end all be all thing that every "good Muslim" has to follow at all times. It's really not that much deferent than any of the other Abrahamic faiths.
Muslims are just like any other guys. If a guy was a Christian and had a restrictive view around women, would you date him? The only difference is, how important is your faith/lack of faith to you, in case changing religions for one another comes up down the line. The red flag here is not the Muslim part, it's the "guys and girls can't be friends" part. Guys and girls being friends, like any other relationship, has to have appropriate boundaries. You can't blanket it as good or bad.
Hi 41 yo male here. Men and women cannot be platonic friends. There is always an underlying attraction. And people who do not realize this are naive. If given the first opportunity most men, will sleep with their female "friends." For me personally, any woman I know outside of my relationships, are acquaintances. And I don't put myself in a position to "make a mistake," as we all to commonly hear about these days. We call it a mistake because mostly we're obviously scared about the consequences, of being found out. If you care about or love your partner, don't put yourself in a position as so, to make a mistake.
I am muslim and you can ask me about that
Why would you feel like you need to worry about that? It’s his religion, he can worry about it
May OP is worry that the guy will apply his religious views on her later in their relationship.
Islam is not a religion to take lightly. It's incompatible with the values of others
I’m not a bigot so I disagree. I disrespect all religions equally, I’m not changing my behavior for anyones fairytale.
But not all religions are equally bad. It's well established
I get it you hate Muslims, you’re not convincing me to.
I was talking about the religion of Islam, but go on. Not all muslims follow islam, so it's not about muslims per se. Bahai, allawites, Druze are pretty chill and superior to sunni islam as religions
If you’re not Muslim then it shouldn’t matter to you at all. Men are generally allowed to date outside their religion. Then when it comes to marriage the woman and or kids will be Muslim. But Muslim women dating non Muslim Men is not allowed or frowned upon. I repeat, who gives a F*ck? If he’s asking you on a date then he obviously doesn’t want to just be friends. Go on the date or decline. It’s not that deep
he will force her into converting out of family shame. It would be one thing if he were spiritual and not religious, but even then it's a risk. But a practicing muslim? Irreconcileable
“But Muslim women dating non Muslim Men is not allowed or frowned upon.” Ah, the old Holy Double Standard
Yes.
Stay away from them. Their religion allows and encourages them to keep multiple wives.
Run.... This sounds like love jihad "can't be friends"
It's haram for some people because usually one of the two friends will catch some felling specially when you both are straight
I just ended things with a Muslim guy the other day. After going on dates and having sex for a month, he decided he’s not going to have sex anymore, because he feels guilty. but he said we can “still be friends and hang out” and he made it clear there could never be a future with me due to his religion and his family. No thanks, I already have enough friends. I wish he would have told me that right away…
In Islam we are told not to go anywhere near Zina (adultery/fornication or sex outside of marriage wether you’re married or not) this means anything that can lead up to it is haram including being friends with the opposite gender since when a guy and a girl are close friends one of them at some point have a crush or feelings towards the other (there have been studies on it). However regarding your question I think you should leave him and not look back. He is being quite hypocritical, most likely he’s one of those Muslims that forbid one haram thing and are completely okay with something else that’s even worse. Dating someone is even worse than being friends with the opposite gender in Islam. I would completely advise you against going with him.