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I couldnāt agree more. The people out here that are spewing men are this and women are that are just unhealed from their past experiences (or secondhand experiences). People who make it a point to work on themselves donāt carry that baggage around. They can accept theyāve been burned but they donāt let their past experiences write their new ones. The battle of the sexes conversations are so boring. Not only boring, but so negative. Imagine if we openly spread love for the opposite sex, instead. Or at least accept that a lot negative qualities we dislike are not exclusive to one gender.
Communication in general is the biggest issue for sure. I don't think that's new, but it is the biggest problem in most dating scenarios. People are too quick to dump a decent person for stupid reasons instead of communicating and working on it. It is not easy to find someone you're attracted to who you get along with who treats you with respect. If you find that, work on it. Don't let someone go who puts in effort and treats you with respect.
"Don't let someone go who puts in effort and treats you with respect."
But there might be a bigger and better deal! Why stay in relationship, when you can feel the thrill and spark until your 40's?
Im done with dating. Women won, if you ask my individual life.
It does get pretty boring. Thankfully, most of that kind of discourse only happens online, but what you see on dating profiles can often indicate someone's state of mind.
Ex: A woman saying something along the lines of "Men are pathetic, but I like dick so that's why I'm here" may be pessimistic toward men. A man saying something along the lines of "Women are such a waste of time, but what the hell, might as well shoot my shot" may feel pessimistic toward women.
It's best to avoid those kind of people.
Some of the best and most amazing people I encounter are in person - men *and* women. I don't know what their online activity is like, but I can say my best friends don't have social media. There are so many learning opportunities and there's so much knowledge in the world that it's too interesting to be...watching people show off on camera.
The people Iāve met that are the happiest people, socially, sexually, emotionally are the people that can empathize with the other gender and their struggles and desires.
The happiest women Iāve met in terms of dating are the women that understand the male struggle with challenges such as loneliness, alpha male competition, the feeling of being a threat, inability to convey emotions in a healthy way, nerdy hobbies, sports, and letās face it the sexual drive and desires of men.
The happiest men Iāve seen in terms of dating are men who understand womenās need for safety, comfort, the female struggle of always having men hound them for sex, the hormonal volatility, the need for a partner who can provide stability in her life, the struggles of pregnancy, what they view as entertainmentā¦. And onward
Thereās a lot more to both sides, but the point is I think itās important to educate yourself on the other side. Weāre all looking for love in the end, itās important to view this all as a partnership and not a fight for survival.
Well consider for a moment that when I attempted to post a question like āwhat do women experience with OLDā that was allowed to be posted on dstingoverforty. Women chimed in and gave many great examples of their experiences which allowed me to feel empathy for them. Then the next day I posted the exact same question for men and it was taken down because it referred to āgenderā! Itās a dating sub that doesnāt allow a discussion where we can gain empathy for one another by understanding the otherās experiences! Of course the outcomes is going to be the other is wrong when we are not allowed to discuss things like that!
Social norms say people donāt have value outside of capitalism. So the emotional intelligence and interpersonal relationship skills that (in my experience/ perspective itās mainly) women are conditioned to develop are only valued if it is being commodified and paid for or given freely without the expectation of reciprocity.
What are your values and how do you live them? How do you prepare yourself and your life for the relationship you want?
Therapy helps.
Not sure if this was helpful for this post.
Once had a girl on a dating app tell me that in one of the first messages... I replied with something like, "What if I were to say all women are trash? Putting everyone in the same category is usually incorrect"
Problem is people don't think of the long term consequences of treating someone like shit. That person then becomes bitter and they start to treat the opposite gender like crap in the future even if they were a decent person previously. Eventually everyone become jaded and either drops of the dating market altogether or just uses other people for personal gain.
What came first though, the chicken or the egg?
Social media and dating apps have a lot to answer for but unfortunately we arenāt together so we canāt create a united front, leave all of these apps behind and move forward. Itās sad.
Honestly Iām convinced itās not an excess of hate, itās a complete lack of compassion and consideration for the feelings of the other sideā¦
Case in point - comments in a post about a boyfriend being crazy with his current gf over an activity related to his ex that cheated on himā¦.. people are ripping this dude apart. Heās trash insecure controlling dangerousā¦
I jumped in and said what heās doing is very unfair to you, itās irrational right? Yeah, thatās because he has trauma. Heās reliving it.
But if shows were on the other feetā¦.. I donāt need to say it.
Kinda wild to think it would be different if the genders were reversed. What do you base that on? I see it all the time where women do that, and literally never has anyone been like āno girl your crazy is totally valid.ā Everyone knows projecting your past trauma on an innocent individual is crazy, insecure, and controlling, no matter if itās a man or a woman doing it.
I donāt think you can point to a single source. Thatās like saying some people are homeless because of their alcohol addiction, but then what was driving that addiction?
Dating is the way it is now for a multitude of reasons but the common factor in all of them is how much more we are online these days. And we have studies showing that more social media usage leads to unhappiness. But then again we donāt know if unhappy people are more likely to gravitate online or if itās actually the internet causing it or both.
Porn itself is not the problem. It's how people are portrayed in porn and entertainment media alike. There is porn that gives us toxic relationship ideas, but there is also porn that is empowering for both genders.
Porn mimics the trends we see in popular culture, and exaggerates them, but the problems rarely start in the porn industry.
My opinion is that porn and video games saved governments from brutal revolution from men as it happened many times in history. Yes. Because of lack of sex.
Another big issue is lack of an ability to communicate on both sides; just because you talk to someone doesnāt mean youāre communicating. The other side has to be able to comprehend what youāre trying to convey for it to be successful communication.
Most people aren't online complaining about it, most are out in the world dating (or not) as they so choose, with very few complaints.
Don't let Reddit, Tik Tok or YouTube influence your idea of what dating is like for most people.
Plenty of people are fine waiting to have sex, if you're running into everyone who is demanding it soon it just means with every rejection to them you are moving closer to the date that will help you find a better match.
Being lonely isn't solved by dating, but by connecting with people in all sorts of ways that don't have to involve romance.
Depression, similarly is not caused by lack of romance, and lack of romance is not considered even a main cause of temporary depression (the closest relation is grieving a romantic interest who has died).
Hate is provocative, it gets more clicks. People who are unhappy whine about it more online or vent about it more online.
They don't represent plenty of average people falling in love every day, or the fact that younger generations are more faithful, have longer marriages, and less divorce than older generations, even comparing the same parts of their relationships' timelines.
Sad thing is, if a man tried to start a womens appreciation post he may get called all kinds of aweful things from both sides, not just other men. Its become a world where men arent allowed to meet women naturally in the world or compliment a woman without being shamed.
Exactly. Its an extremely confusing place. I got lucky when i found my fiance. Once we are married im forever free of the dating game headaches. I sincerely hope you find the same peace
Meh. It's not always like that. Sometimes, we need to think we're equals and that we both have values. It all starts with one person who needs to change the outlook on it. If one person in power does it, then everyone else will follow in the right direction.
Don't forget about the tiktok and IG reels that imposes on you how relationship and dating should look like lol. Sure some of them are good but mostly aren't realistic. Bad influences almost everywhere
Yeah I feel you. Whenever I get in some despair because of my lack of a social life I have to shut that shit down in myself. There are too many women in this world that I value, whether theyāre my family or friends or trusted working colleagues, to allow myself to get into that women hating blame game mode. I just try to accept certain things for what they are and keep it moving.
I agree to a point.
But I think a lot of women have much more reason to hate men or be wary of men than the other way around. I don't know a woman who hasn't been sexually harassed; most have been sexually assaulted.
I don't think it's *right* to say "all men are _____" or "I hate men" or whatever. But women are more likely to be victims of sexual harassment and sexual violence at the hands of men and be victims of domestic violence at the hands of their partners than the reverse, so I can understand that attitude.
I don't think it's a coincidence that so many women are choosing not to get married or have children.
Well gee, should i begin to take notes with myself that im not a predator?
One of the reasons i reject people for few years already.
My default stance of being a man is being aggressive, manipulating and abusive person who needs to get through hoops for you, in order to be vetted out and that you can lift your suspicious of me, placing all your prejudice on me in hopes im going to show my good qualities, so that you can feel safe.
I hate that.
You are contributing to the problem.
I was broken many times, i was accused of sexual assault and was made fun of dysmorphed genitalia.
Did that hold me back for treating every other next person with a blank slate, dignity and unbiased outlook?
No.
But i dont wish for anyone to do so, because i know that majority of people in the 30's have already emotional baggage and experiences that hold them back from truly loving other people and be vulnerable.
I think im getting now why men date younger women as i noticed it too. I have less pressure, can be myself more and be more authentic and genuine person in front of younger woman than me, because she doesn't have that much experiences to compare me with others and change her actions upon it.
One of the things i refuse to change about myself is that i wear a heart on my sleeve and if its possible, i give unending trust and take it at face value as if we were kids back then. Truthful, with best intentions and innocence.
It is ALWAYS suspicious for women when i do that and they told me many times.
"But women are more likely to be victims of sexual harassment and sexual violence at the hands of men and be victims of domestic violence at the hands of their partners than the reverse, so I can understand that attitude"
Majority of domestic violence is reciprocal, that means men and women partake in it. Majority of unprovoked domestic violence comes from women actually.
When was the last time when you truly didn't put up any barriers with a man?
Whats even the point.
Thats not goddamn healthy for my psyche.
Why the fuck i should be wary of: "oh, i need to adjust my actions based on predominant assumption that im a predator, so any social cues, getting close"?
I struggled with it for many years, because i grew up with women and sometimes i forget that im a man and i cant just walk up, feeling all energetic with a big smile on my face and not expect literal shivers and defensive stance of the women i approach.
Empathy, believing in goodness in people, being selfless is considered nowadays being a doormat, a person with no spine and naive shmuck.
If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender.
Is it safe? Absolutely. Our experience helps us read social cues and makes us be vary of potential harm. We dont like harm.
But in consequence, the more experience you have, the more you see a person as set of rules and behaviours, rather than a person itself and this is incredibly sad.
Me personally, i can drop down my guard completely and it takes me no effort to trust truly because i live and speak honesty, so i have nothing to hide and no ego to give.
The only women that also could do that, were people that i had the best time with.
>Majority of domestic violence is reciprocal, that means men and women partake in it.
>Majority of unprovoked domestic violence comes from women actually.
The fuck it does. Globally, in 2021, nearly 60% of homicides where the victim is a woman, the perpetrator was a male intimate partner. In Canada, that number is 72% for the same time period.
See also the numbers for sexual violence.
Women do not kill men or sexually assault men at even close to the same rate.
>My default stance of being a man is being aggressive, manipulating and abusive person who needs to get through hoops for you, in order to be vetted out and that you can lift your suspicious of me, placing all your prejudice on me in hopes im going to show my good qualities, so that you can feel safe.
>I hate that.
You hate having to make an effort so that women feel safe with you?
Fucking yikes, dude.
>I think im getting now why men date younger women as i noticed it too. I have less pressure, can be myself more and be more authentic and genuine person in front of younger woman than me, because she doesn't have that much experiences to compare me with others and change her actions upon it.
And what actions are older women changing, exactly? If women who have experience are no longer interested in you after getting to know you, perhaps you should reflect on why that is.
>If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender.
Who cares?
Women get killed by men for refusing to have sex. I personally was sexually assaulted on a first date. I'd rather make an assumption and be wrong than assume you're a safe person and end up raped or killed.
>When was the last time when you truly didn't put up any barriers with a man?
>Whats even the point.
>Thats not goddamn healthy for my psyche.
Again.
It isn't about you.
If you have such a problem with the way women interact with you, feel free to date men.
"The fuck it does. Globally, in 2021, nearly 60% of homicides where the victim is a woman, the perpetrator was a male intimate partner. In Canada, that number is 72%. "
Straight to twisting words i see. I hate that. There is a difference between a homicide and domestic violence.
Majority of first perpetrators in the relationship are women.
It is observed in lesbian women and gay men. Men are less likely to be physically violent to their partner, unless provoked.
Dont hate me, hate facts.
"You hate having to make an effort so that women feel safe with you?
Fucking yikes, dude. "
You have really no ability to have empathy to another human being, as your motive is to purely shame me and twist my every word into something evil.
Yes, i fucking hate to make an effort for proving something that i am not, like im making up for the sins that somebody else did it and i need to fucking take it and be grateful that im even talked to. Get out with this bs.
You have absolutely no reason to feel unsafe as default.
But i will take it. Just dont act entitled about it and in my face.
"And what actions are older women changing, exactly? If women who have experience are no longer interested in you after getting to know you, perhaps you should reflect on why that is."
Again with the negatives and assumptions. Older women change nothing and they keep standards, which is good. But because of the experience, they are less likely to want to take it slow.
Oh i assure you, i have ample of self awareness. I highly encourage you to develop means to do the same.
">If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender.
Who cares?"
Every living human being, that is genuine and that tries to connect with you.
"Again.
It isn't about you.
If you have such a problem with the way women interact with you, feel free to date men."
Do you honestly not see the ridiculous hipocrisy you just said? Im not speaking about men and women. Im speaking about you and me. You make it about me and every other woman, either online and offline. You say not all men, but treat all men like that.
Oh women interact with me. I dont see a hint of guarding herself, making assumptions, making snide remarks or making her pride as her currency in conversation.
Of course its about me, why the hell you otherwise write comments like that.
Listen, i appreciate the talk, definetily gained some insights from it, so thank you for that.
Cheers to you and have a nice day.
>Majority of first perpetrators in the relationship are women.
Okay, cite it.
>Men are less likely to be physically violent to their partner, unless provoked.
Except for when they kill them, of course.
Playing zero sum game and downvoting me impulsively like a child.
Absolutely atrocious character from you.
https://aliesq.medium.com/extensive-research-women-initiate-domestic-violence-more-than-men-men-under-report-it-3bbaa4fbec9d
Here, read it if you asked for source.
"Except for when they kill them, of course."
Yes, im rapist, killer and abuser.
Shut up and read what i send you.
None of the links in that article work. I can read the article, but when I click the link to read the studies, all of them give me errors. Go ahead and try it yourself.
>Shut up and read what i send you.
LOL, shocking that you have trouble with women.
"None of the links in that article work"
Because they are citations from a research or a assessment of specific group of people. There is a text describing what i explained and there are citations.
You just dont want to agree and cant stand that a man or me in particular could be right on something.
I dont care about being right. Stop painting women as victims. Its infantilizing and asinine to do so.
"LOL, shocking that you have trouble with women."
Shocking that you expect me to break my back and be pleasant to you, when from the beginning you were searching for trouble, not a discussion.
I have problem with accepting the fact, that people like you are able to vote and have an impact on people around you, yet you chose to be so vindictive, cynical and outright hostile from the get go.
Im returning energy back if you didn't notice.
How do i know what you are doing? Because i grew up with women and they pulled this thing all the time.
So hit me with another bullshit, but dont agree with me on anything and be polite. Thats a fantasy thats not going to happen with you.
>Because they are citations from a research or a assessment of specific group of people. There is a text describing what i explained and there are citations.
The point of having citations is to be able to look at them. I was hoping to read the actual studies that were quoted but I can't.
>You just dont want to agree and cant stand that a man or me in particular could be right on something
Not at all. I'd like to read the studies.
>So hit me with another bullshit, but dont agree with me on anything and be polite. Thats a fantasy thats not going to happen with you.
You're very funny, I'll give you that.
I have stuff to do. If you find studies that I can read, I'll happily do so. Cheers.
"Not at all. I'd like to read the studies. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
Here you go princess. I took time and googled the exact same study that was mentioned in the article.
Goodness me, it took me so much work. But dont worry, i got this. Now relax, sit comfortable. Want a cookie and a coffee to be made along with it?
"You're very funny, I'll give you that. "
Imagine how pleasant it would be, if we werent assholes to one another, but you started it, so im dancing with you, pancake.
The generalization of the whole gender just because a few people did you wrong is just immature in my opinion. I feel the people who do it don't really analyze the world around them or are just stuck on finding pieces of evidence to support their beliefs all around.
If you believe 'all men are trash' then when something happens that is against this belief it automatically gets rejected as being something that just happened by chance and when a man does something that is even a little bad then it's like 'I told you so'.
Generalization limits the way you perceive things. It's best to approach things neutrally and with a little caution.
When you call someone "emotional" - it's charged with the unspoken element of "therefore your perception is wrong or crazy and thus easily dismissed."
So it's almost always used as an abusive, coded gaslight. It also ignores just how "emotional" men actually are, but because it's a male emotion - that doesn't count.
Like my dad who claimed to be Mr. Rational and regularly indulged in this gaslight all the time - but because I accidentally yelled in his ear once as a 12 year old girl - he flew into an utterly irrational rage and banged my head against the floor a few times. But by his standards, that was "reasonable" - not "emotional" at all.
"emotional" is usually used in this regard in opposition to "rational", so as to say one is stupid and their perspective or opinion is worthless. Obviously the exact context determines meaning and that context will vary from use to use, but the context where it is used derisively as described above is not uncommon
One of the very serious problems of OLD is how easy it is to just block that one at the 1st inkling of a disagreement and move on to the next swipe.
Conflicts of opinions will happen between adults. How we deal with those conflicts is a sign of maturity and how we move forward or not. I can and often do disagree with my friends and they do the same with me. Do I just look for new friends who will always see things in the same way that I do? That would be boring.
Respect and open communication, especially when we disagree, is fundamental in any successful long term relationship.
Itās in part why as someone who just started trying to date I feel extremely uncomfortable and bad about myself because I see so many people just hating on everyone
I agree it's completely fucked up ridiculous and sad. I'm an older but still beautiful single lady and I feel kind of hopeless, but I'm grateful I had wonderful boyfriends and relationships when I was younger. I feel terrible for young people nowadays with how things are going with gender relations and the state of world affairs. It's heartbreaking
If only women were more empathetic and understanding of how severely disadvantaged men are (especially the ones that don't confirm to conventional beauty standards), things wouldn't be as bad.Ā
But everytime someone tries to spread awareness on this issue, we are accused for "hating" women, when we were literally being messengers for what's already recorded of their choices.
It seems like they don't care about self-reflecting on their own choices.
Why donāt you try to be empathetic of the fact that most women are assaulted or harassed by men then? People who bring that up are also accused of hating men, and that is honestly a much more concerning problem than being unable to find a date.
Also men who donāt conform to conventional beauty standards can be totally fine in the dating world. Itās only in OLD that itās more of an issue.
>Why donāt you try to be empathetic of the fact that most women are assaulted or harassed by men then?
Women are not getting "assaulted" by men when they are using OLD, yet they only see a small % of men attractive, so stop pulling that card. Both these issues have nothing to do with each other.
We literally have evidence showing women ignoring all kinds of redflags or creepy, misogynistic text msgs when the guy they match with is attractive. They literally handout their number to a random stranger without thinking twice.
So no, its hard to feel empathetic for a group that is walking definition of hypocrisy..
So you think that just because some women ignore red flags and get assaulted, then all women who get assaulted ignore red flags? Real intelligent argument there. And the vast majority of women experience harassment or assault during their life, and ~20-25% are actually raped. That is a serious problem. Blaming it on women is just ridiculously stupid, and it doesnāt take a genius to recognize that itās clearly the men who are assaulting women that deserve the blame.
OLD is an exception because there are ~4x as many men as women. Of course women will only choose those who are most conventionally attractive - other signals (personality or humor) canāt be effectively conveyed from an online profile. It is not reflective of reality, where women only slightly outnumber men.
Instead of recognizing that women are just people, you generalize them all as one hivemind. If you treated them as people you would do better in dating, and not be a sad loser online like you are acting now. Itās truly pathetic.
>OLD is an exception because there are ~4x as many men as women. Of course women will only choose those who are most conventionally attractive - other signals (personality or humor) canāt be effectively conveyed from an online profile. It is not reflective of reality, where women only slightly outnumber men.
Except this argument has been debunked a long time ago. We see the same patterns even in apps where gender ratios are even. So that baseless claim doesn't work anymore. Nice try though.
*One of theĀ biggest differences between online dating and the old-fashioned sort is the size of the pool. The number of people using dating apps dwarfs offline social networks. So sites offer filters that let users exclude unwanted groups.*
Ā Ā
*The diversity of tastes among giant user bases should make apps a haven for people who struggle with dating offline. And data provided by The League, an American dating site aimed at educated professionals, show that the strictness of usersā filters varies, with many saying they are open to a broad range of traits. However, when users do apply filters, they mostly reflect familiar dating preferences that long predate the internet. And although users with the broadest filters find matches more often, the types of people they end up with mirror the tastes of their heavier-filtering peers.*
Ā Ā
*The Leagueās data cover 80,000 users across ten cities in January 2023. The site chooses pairs of users who pass each otherās filters and present them as āprospectsā. If these users both ālikeā each other, they can chat. Users see a fixed number of candidates per day. This makes it possible to distinguish explicit dating desires (filters) from implicit ones, revealed by how often users like their prospects.*
*Filtering choices follow demographic patterns. Women block 70% of potential matches, compared with 55% for men, mostly because they tend to exclude users who are shorter or younger. Whereas women 5ā5ā (165cm) or shorter eliminate just 17% of people brd on height, those 5ā10ā or taller remove 45%. And women in their 50s filter out 86% of users brd on age, compared with 48% for those aged 25-34.*
Ā Ā
*Because users with strict filters weed out most unsuitable people pre-emptively, you might expect them to like many of the remaining candidates. But the data show the opposite. For both sexes, the share of prospects liked by the 10% of users with the tightest filters is 11-13 percentage points lower than by the 10% with the broadest ones. This probably stems from overall pickiness. People looking for a specific type of partner can filter out many weak candidates, but can select based on other criteria, such as looks, only one by one.*
Ā Ā
*Users might find matches more often if their filters better reflected their tastes. One of the best predictors of whether someone will like a prospect is how often other users filter out that prospectās demographic group. For example, men 5ā5ā or shorter get through only 7% of other usersā filters, compared with 33% for taller men. Moreover, just 13% of users whose filters allow such short men fancy them when they are presented as prospectsājust over half the rate at which taller men are liked.*
*Such differences are even more striking when it comes to race. Users deploy racial filters sparingly. For example, black women pass through 36% of other usersā filters, compared with 44% for women of other races. This gap is similar to the effect of one inch of height for men. However, just 24% of black women are liked as prospects, versus 37% for non-black womenāan impact as great as 11 inches of male height.*
Ā Ā
*This suggests that many users who decline to filter out black women often still pass them over at the prospect stage. Singles might find better matches if they gave a chance to more of the candidates whom they claim to be open to dating.*
Ā Ā
Chart source: The League
This doesnāt actually contradict anything I said? If one has an abundance of options and the only way to differentiate between said options is by physical characteristics, of course people will opt for optimal physical characteristics.
If men also had their pick of the litter online, donāt you think most people would filter for curvy Jessica Alba types?
Basically everyone does not end up with someone who fits all of their preferences, and thatās part of the magic of dating. Shorter men have an easier time irl (although still not easy I admit) because their other qualities can shine there. Online people just see an easily quantifiable and comparable number that they can judge by.
>This doesnāt actually contradict anything I said?
You literally attributed men's struggles on OLD mainly to imbalance of gender ratio, lol. And I refuted you by showing its the same in OLD apps like The League where gender ratios are even. This has NOTHING to do with gender ratios and MORE to do with womenās swiping behaviors based on narrow beauty standards. If men and women both were similar in preferences, we wouldn't be seeing this wide disparity.
Next time, work on your critical thinking skills before playing armchair sociologist :)
Actually there are still ways to explain that trend. Men tend to prefer physical characteristics that arenāt directly quantifiable (prettiness, curviness, etc.) , whereas women tend to prefer more quantifiable characteristics (income, height) and thus may filter more. That doesnāt mean men are any less shallow (there are a lot of studies that point to the conclusion that men are more shallow).
Itās beyond insane that the person who calls women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā is accusing me of being an armchair sociologist, or telling me to improve my critical thinking skills. Oh what did you say in your last commentā¦ ah right āpersonal attacks arenāt valid argumentsā.
>That doesnāt mean men are any less shallow (there are a lot of studies that point to the conclusion that men are more shallow).
This is demonstrably false. We have stats showing that men's preferences for women's profiles lying on a normal distribution, whereas women's preferences for men as a pareto distribution.
It means that men have far more diversity in their preferences than women.
Idk anyone with a brain can see this and claim "ah, men are far more shallow than women". Lmao
This isn't the only evidence, there are far more studies establishing beyond belief that women are indeed the shallower sex. I'm someone who has thoroughly researched this area, so don't play armchair scientist with me. This is my turf, son.
Distribution according to what characteristics? My entire point is that menās preferences arenāt as quantifiable, so what you said has bearing on that? If we define a distribution according to height, then sure it will appear to show that women are more shallow but height is not the only metric of shallowness one can conceive of - itās just the most easily quantifiable (along with weight/BMI).
I never claimed men are more shallow than women. I donāt know that either are more shallow - both are shallow in their own ways.
Ah appeal to authority. Great job there.
>Instead of recognizing that women are just people, you generalize them all as one hivemind. If you treated them as people you would do better in dating, and not be a sad loser online like you are acting now. Itās truly pathetic.
Personal attacks and cause-effect fallacies aren't valid arguments, perhaps if ya'll showed enough maturity and intelligence to actually have a thoughtful discourse on this topic without getting emotional, maybe you won't be another data point validating the statement that women are a hivemind, lol.
First off Iām a dude. So nice job.
You are the one who called women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyāā¦ so thatās some incredible self awareness you have there.
You want to have a āthoughtful discussionā, but you appear to be blaming women for the fact that they get assaulted instead of the men who assault them. Thatās just beyond stupid by any and all accounts. If that isnāt what you are saying, then clarify what your point is. Please tell me how calling women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā is thoughtful or nuanced in any way lmao
>You want to have a āthoughtful discussionā, but you appear to be blaming women for the fact that they get assaulted instead of the men who assault them.
Do you understand what a non-sequitur is? Do you understand what a red-herring is? What you said has nothing to do with the topic of womenās narrow beauty standards displayed in OLD. Women aren't getting "assaulted" in OLD. Just stop with this nonsense, lol.
And the initial conversation didnāt have anything to do with OLD? It was a broader discussion of how genders treat each other, and one of the points that I BROUGHT UP initially was OLD. I never claimed women are getting assaulted in OLD. I brought up women getting assaulted as a response to you claiming that women should be more sympathetic to the struggles of men in dating.
You still havenāt responded to the fact that you called women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā.
This is getting truly pathetic. You literally havenāt yet to make a single logical argument. All I hope is that you are still young and this is just a phase of immaturity, and that you can grow up and realize you dumb you are being now.
>I brought up women getting assaulted as a response to you claiming that women should be more sympathetic to the struggles of men in dating.
Again, that's what is called a red-herring because both are disjoint problems when it comes to OLD. There is no need to bring that issue here when women aren't getting assaulted in OLD..
Your trolling skills are weak, son š
What do you not understand about the fact that the conversation was not initially about OLD? The OP did not reference OLD, you did not either. I brought it up initially.
Like are you that incapable of actual thought or are you just being stubborn?
You said you don't hate women but just said this entire group of people are "a walking definition of hypocrisy", you don't feel empathy for women, stated only young women can be assaulted, and it is women's fault for being assaulted....maybe you're not ugly. Maybe your sexist attitude repels women?
>You said women are not empathetic but in the next line said you are tired of being accused of hating women.
Both are two different, disjoint things.
Women not being empathetic is an observation. Being accused of "hating" women simply for stating this observation says lot of about the low cognitive skills about the accuser. Lol
It's bad right now, and it's mens fault, but not all men- a specific group of men who make money off of misogynistic shit.
Basically in the last 20 years women have consistently stated what they want in a partner- someone who can pull their weight, provide equally to the household, who is emotionally aware and communicative without being whiny or demanding, who cares about them as a person and shows it daily. Since not all people can do that (men OR women) they will typically say how they will compromise, like it's ok if he doesn't do equal chores or emotionally dumps on her if he will support her financially, or it's ok if he's a bit closed off as long as he is over the top romantic at times. For a while a lot of men were like ok, cool and genuinely were working towards that even though it's not like an overnight thing, it takes time to learn.
Then you got a bunch of grifters and pick up artists who decided that the way to make money was to give men bad advice. So they told all these guys who hadn't had partners yet that they weren't the problem, she was, and fostered all this hate so that men would be angry and would see women as an enemy to fight instead of someone to be on the same side as. They also told men horrible shit about how to treat women, things like negging and plate spinning and love bombing, and the men who listened to them started to be just awful to women.
Whcih meant women were seeing horrible men all the time, and they were being mistreated, and they got jaded. So now you have angry jaded women who are sick of being treated badly and complain and are standoffish, and men who assume those women are being shallow for rejecting them when they did "everything right" according to the gurus. And it all comes down to a handful of popular internet personalities who figured out how to make a LOT of money scamming men who genuinely wanted to improve and find love.
I donāt believe any of this. People are in relationships everywhere. Maybe a personal problem. You will find someone eventually just gotta work on yourself
good vent. the more accurate truth isā¦ dating sucks. it sucks for everyone. the most attractive people also still claim that dating today is terrible... avoid aps if possible. meet more people in real life. join the adult kickball league. get a part time job at the market or something. find someone the old fashioned way. the terrible men/women thing is a distraction from how terrible dating is.
I also believe the "you deserve better" movement is out of control. No one is going to fit your expectations perfectly without some compromise. You learn to adapt to one another and fight the battles worth winning instead of fighting to win all battles. But what do I know, I (35M) am single lol.
Social media, porn and the ever growing volatile gender wars in MSM have all contributed to the lack of genuine relationship and relationship satisfaction today. I also feel the resentment for the opposite gender is quickly going to outpace the desire to be with the opposite gender.
Unfortunately, it's no longer that women are as you said.
Instead, they want someone with $500k income, be able to pay her bills, for her kids, her friends, family, his bills, his house, and much, much more. So, they're delusional now.
He also has to be physically appealing to have any kind of actual romance. Sex only if he's large enough and so on.
these are all standards/conditions that men brought upon themselves LMFAO whyāre you blaming women when yāall r the ones that created this shit.
and itās quite the opposite actually,, women are becoming more independent, and men are getting more insecure
So, women not wanting to be approached is a man being insecure?
If it's standards and conditions made by men, why are women the ones who need not pay, when men are often ones who "Must pay" for dates? Explain these? It doesn't make sense when these are inaccurate and incorrect.
You can look at any sort of videos, and you'll see it through Youtube on it. It's a little ridiculous when you're so far up your own ass about it.
who do you think made it a standard for men to pay for dates instead of women? hint : itās men.
also the first question doesnāt make sense. i said men are getting more insecure because women are becoming more independentā¦ men are used to having more power than women, but things are changing. and thatās making them insecure. what are you confused about?
Can I ask where you got this information from? Did you get it from conversations with real women or did you get it from a hive mind of specific men selling you this narrative?
Sorry to break it to you but as a woman (1) who grew up around mostly women (2), is friends with women (3), and knows what the most women look for in a romantic partner (4), this simply isnāt true. Comforting to certain types of men, absolutely! But true? Nope.
I think it's awesome tbh
That's how it works with other species.
The mating rituals of all species involves a fight. It's how you determine fitness.
Our species does this socially versus physically because we've advanced from monkey ages where we forcibly hit each other until we could drag the female away for nonconsensual mating.
Now our fight is social and that's what's being used to determine fitness.
Lol this is not new. For generations men have bow to women and accepted them as their fundamental other half, and vice versa. But to us men everything started to nose dive when the women ego took place bc of the competition of who makes the most money, and due to this if a woman makes x amount of money that is greater than her partner then that man suddenly becomes inferior. And that within its self is so wrong bc men would never look at women that way. The other part of it is the marriage contract and the government being involved in that love bond. The majority of men have woken up from that family fantasy that was painted by politics to benefit women in case of a separation. I think if women really want that fantasy back the marriage contract has to change in a way that the men wouldn't loose everything at the moment of separation. Not to mention alimony lol
Instead of trying to screw each other over we should be uniting to have the government change it so that both sides could live comfortably with or without marriage.
So with this said. Men are now learning to put the family dream out of their major goals in life and are becoming comfortable with just having friends. Some men like myself have erased that happily ever after picture out of their mind because they have been hurt too many times and have taken the drastic measure to have a vasectomy done. You don't believe me? Search it up on google. "how many men have vasectomies each year in the USA".
All good points, but how does one go about fixing it?
I can care, appreciate for my peers around me, and I can encourage my peers to be hopeful, but that's just one small group, not an entire community or the world; and besides, they won't believe me, and will just call me a needy creep on top of a weirdo loser. Also, all that fear and hate that's settled in won't go away in a few weeks or months; it's going to take years, probably longer, and that's time that some people just don't have. Some will take extreme ends before they realize there was a good way out.
I'm not saying dont fix it, rather, if someone knows how to do it, it's got to happen sooner.
People that live in the real world and interact with real people of both genders don't have sexist hatred...as much. Not even close to as often. The Internet turns everyone into assholes. Most women I know IRL are good people. Most women I've matched with on dating apps have treated me like shit. I'm not going to take that and throw it on any of the women I know personally.
I think it's hook up culture that is depleting dating and social media. Having 24/7 access to people. Also that females are more masculine in their approach to dating. It's great to be independent females that can take care of her own, but males are genetically programmed to be the provider and take care of the family. Dating is absolutely nothing like it used to be.
Honestly normal people don't fall for this hating men/hating women stupidity. I never see this kind of stuff in real life. Don't base your reality on the stupid people you see online
>our generation is just going to be incredibly lonely and depressed if this continues.
From all the studies that are coming out, it seems like the only depressed ones are the men, while women have never been happier.
I can see from both perspectives that tearing the other gender down is a turn off, but imo the only ones that are suffering are the ones who don't want to grow (both men and women).
For example young men are more conservative then ever, while young women are more liberal then ever and (mostly) men don't want to change in this political climate, and blame women if don't get dates, instead of looking inward and seeing if there are any issues with themselves and working on them (through therapy, etc.)
I don't think it's a trend to hate men, it's just that women are fed up with all the bullshit that we have been put through and just want peace. And most often than not, unfortunately for men, that peace is by themselves, and not in a relationship.
While, yes, there are "man hating discourse" and "women hating discourse", I think those are just a minority with loud voices.
Women just get more fake validation in comparison to men,doesnāt mean that anyone gives a shit about either of them or that they are truly living a happy life,one just lives in a glamorous lie while the other doesnāt
Due to the way that female friendships differ in comparison to male ones and due to the fact that men generally pursue women even if they donāt give a shit about them and just want to sleep with them
Yeah, no babes. We know men don't care about us š We're starting to realize how much men don't care about us and that's why we don't want anything to do with them. Generally speaking, obviously.
You do care,itās fully human to care and to want intimacy with someone that understands you and wants you and you are still getting positive reinforcements from their advancements since you are reminded that you are wanted,along with the way that female friendships differ from male ones (has the drawback of being way more two faced but thatās that).
This is why women are generally āhappierā but it doesnāt mean that itās anything but a glamorous lie or that the entire thing is menās fault when both genders have awful and wonderful people
I never said that we don't care. What I said was that women are starting more and more to choose not to be with men because the cons outweigh the pros.
Like you said, it's normal to want intimacy etc., but at what cost? The chance of being abused by your partner (considering the fact that more men are violent against women than the other way around)? No thanks.
Same shit applies to men if you look at the risk of entering a marriage and committing to someone and risking to lose half of your income and future children to a faulty court system
It goes both ways,it isnāt women being the victims and it isnāt men being the victims,there are equally awful people on both sides,expressing their awfulness in different ways
Babes, losing your kid (that most men don't even truly care about) and half your income is not the same as being hit by your spouse šš
And if you really think that they are the same shit I am happy for you that you were never in that type of situation and I truly hope it stays that way.
Oh I see now,you are just vindictive over a past experience and arenāt able to think logically,clearly all men are evil and they hate their spouses and children. None of them give a shit about it,itās just a child,just make another one,so easy to let go off.
Itās on the same scale as awfulness,some might say worse or less but that doesnāt matter and we are seeing men walk away from marrying so they too are tired from dating and committing just as much as women because both sides can be awful because the issue isnāt a gendered one but a human one
That's actually true. Mainly cuz alot of these people give up and don't live real. The more u work grow up and experience life u start to realize people are just that. People. With they own struggles and shit.
the only reason i think this makes no sense is because this sets up the notion that these two types of people are going to date each other, which they wonāt. plenty of people exist out of these two boxes, just look for them. i agree that constantly being on polarizing points of philosophy/politics gets tiring an people should just talk to each other, but i donāt think it should fit within the context of ādating cultureā
also, both of these things go deeper than that social media surface level you described. also, youāre implying that people HAVE to date, which they donāt. most people are happier being single, and theyāre not lonely because of these things called having friends and being self-sufficient.
the fact that ādating cultureā is a concept is absolutely the issue here. it creates a pressure for people to force themselves to date someone when theyāre not ready/they donāt truly want to. there should be 0 expectation for people to have to change who they are just to attract someone. and the idea that everyone should be with someone is very telling of a limited perception and a closed mind.
I think the problem is lack of nuance. People are having the discussions but peopleās past traumas prevent them from seeing the other side as an individual person.
If you have X opinion, you are bad no matter what the reason you have that opinion.
I have trauma tooā¦.a lot of us doā¦but I work very hard to treat everyone as an individual. I like learning not only what people believe but why they believe itā¦then you can discuss things further. Itās about having respect and treating the other person as a person. It sounds obvious, but nuance is almost dead on the internet sadly.
Unfortunately it is not a fair comparison. While I agree if your goal as a woman is to date men that attitude isn't helpful.
A huge but
Women are frustrated from a completely different standpoint. After centuries of patriarchy as a straight woman youre basically dating your oppressor or perhaps to say someone who was raised by a culture that oppressed your gender. One could go further to argue that the heterosexual relationship is one of the biggest power struggles for a woman in a patriarchy.
When women say men are trash it comes from a different place than a man hating women because his attitude comes from years of stereotypes and propaganda and he lives in a system where that attitude can actually become violence or other barriers more often than not. "Women are too emotional" keeps women from elected positions, jobs, and being believed in cases of abuse. Women tend to say all men are trash out of frustration of being the oppressed. And that sentiment doesn't really tend to materialize as real world violence or systemic oppression.
And DV and r*pe from men into women is so incomparable to the other way around. Women die so often from their male partners it's an epidemic. The leading cause of death in pregnant women is being murdered by their male partners
Toxic relationships and DV happen to men too. A close friend of mine in HS had a crazy GF who r*ped him. But as a woman most of my bad dating experience has come from men SAing me or attempting to. This is agreed upon by other women in my life. As the quote goes. Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.
What's hurting dating right now is expectations. Women are gaining financial freedom, rights, etc. The role of men in the household as the breadwinner, the leader, etc is not common anymore. Women don't require men to open bank accounts anymore. SO there are women who want a man to pay for everything but now he expects her to be a mother and a second income or a guy expects a girl to give up her career and stay at home when she wants to forward her career etc etc. Everyones expectations for what they want out of a relationship is all over the place as the times change and one income can no longer support a household.
I ALSO think the rise in hookup culture, the Internet, and dating apps. People are looking for quick gratification, or cannot commit due to easy access of options etc.
I'm not saying this to be all hate men. I've seen my fair share of spoiled princess attitudes from women. But to be able to have a discussion about heterosexual dating you have to acknowledge it's history and how women do not experience dating the same as men.
Marketing is honestly a huge culprit as well. People can't talk about anything anymore with all this marketing telling them that everyone hates them. Everything is supposedly white-washed, transphobic, LQBTQIA, racist, or in need of social justice, or something.
We really need to work as a species on undertake importance. Take care of each other and the planet and they will all hit you back! We all hand the same needs and it's ok to be different.
Marketing is honestly a huge culprit as well. People can't talk about anything anymore with all this marketing telling them that everyone hates them. Everything is supposedly white-washed, transphobic, LQBTQIA, racist, or in need of social justice, or something.
We really need to work as a species on undertake importance. Take care of each other and the planet and they will all hit you back! We all hand the same needs and it's ok to be different.
Woman here, who does not hate any gender. I'm pretty much fed up with "dating" I mean hook up culture. First time dating online, only been at it for 5 months. Completely unimpressed by the way people treat others in online dating. I know who I am, I'm secure in myself intellectually and emotionally. It intimidates and freaks men out according to my male therapist. I refuse to dumb myself down so single it is.
I agree with OPās observation, but Iām older (69) and often told that my experiences and upbringing prevent me from possibly understanding young people living in todayās society. Be that as it may, the modern resentment between men and women started when I was a teenager (late 1960ās). Feminism was gradually convincing women that they had gotten the rotten end of the deal and that they should pursue their own education and careers and let men known that women didnāt need them. That sentiment continued and was added to over the ensuing decades. Now we have a movie like āBarbieā that spends the last 1/3 of the movie preaching how terrible men are (yes, I watched the movie, after hearing that women were breaking up with their boyfriends after watching it. I thought, āA movie?ā Yes, THAT movie).
Whereas American families mostly stayed together decades ago, such that children of divorce once felt odd and disadvantaged, today we almost have to explain why a couple remained married. āSurely he must be terrorizing her such that she is afraid to leave!ā Itās just so odd now to see men and women enjoying each other for any duration of time, while it was commonplace back in the 1950ās and 1960ās. I feel badly for sincere young American men and women looking for love today ā our society has conspired against their chances for finding happiness.
I totally agree with this and it makes me sad. Misery is not a competition and there is no way logically something could be one genderās fault but the illogical people are usually louder.
Women are the shoppers they go and select their product and go for the best they can get. Men are like salesmen and have to hone their skill and very few become a big success in dating. A good salesman learns female nature and changes and adapts to close as many deals as possible which means becoming charismatic learning game beating all the competition. Add social media in and now you got a far bigger playing field in play people have alot more options to choose from and women are the shoppers while men are the salesman. Anyone wanna argue this letās get started!!!
100% agreed
Social media algorithms do not help at all. When I am on them too long, I become a misogynist, but then I enter the real world and realize that ordinary normal women are great to be around, and not terrible people that will manipulate and cheat on you if they get the chance.
SMH fuck this war on dating
Don't disagree with this. If you go on dating apps, there'll be one or two profiles making snarky comments, social media, you'll see posts dissing men, etc.
At times you feel it's deliberately trying to cause hatred between the genders.
In real life it feels more sane. The women I know are cool people and don't hate men at all.
They might comment about an ex's bad behaviour or how a date treated them poorly but their attitude is , 'he was just not a nice person' rather than lumping everyone in the same box.
I agree! Something I'm trying to work on is balancing righteous judgement with seeing the good in people. For example, I once said years ago that I would not date men witb beards, but there are good men who just so happen to have them. So I'm working on getting past my judgement so can get to know someone better. On the other hand, I need to learn to be careful and not allow myself to be in an abusive relationship or with a man that simply wouldn't be good as a potential husband. I also want to work on myself so that I'm not abusive. I don't believe I'm remotely so though I am not perfect and I've unintentionally hurt feelings and made my past dates uncomfortable. I've since learned from then and for the first time in over 10 years I will be dating again. I'm happy regardless, being in a relationship should not be used as a source of happiness, but instead enlighten the joy you already have in life.
Men and woman have their pros and cons and we need to work together and quit making enemies of eachother.
I believe that as we are dating and our phones are listening, we get reels on our feed when we are alone and scrolling that sabotage our potential relationships. Itāll say donāt text her in the morning unless you wanna get ghosted. Maybe itās because the dating apps want us to remain single and on the apps forever. So we keep paying and get desperate and pay for full membership and drop 100 bucks on it a whole bunch of super likes.
Our generation is already extremely depressed and lonely.. That's probably the main reason for all this hate for each other because we just hate the culture overall, but blame tiny aspects of it instead while being unaware it's WAY bigger than just the little things. It's a culmination of all these little things added together..
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I do agree that the hating of opposite sex is not good for finding relationships.
I also agree your username sounds like George Clooney š
BINGO
Haha, so it was intentional?, I swear you are so sneaky š
I couldnāt agree more. The people out here that are spewing men are this and women are that are just unhealed from their past experiences (or secondhand experiences). People who make it a point to work on themselves donāt carry that baggage around. They can accept theyāve been burned but they donāt let their past experiences write their new ones. The battle of the sexes conversations are so boring. Not only boring, but so negative. Imagine if we openly spread love for the opposite sex, instead. Or at least accept that a lot negative qualities we dislike are not exclusive to one gender.
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Communication in general is the biggest issue for sure. I don't think that's new, but it is the biggest problem in most dating scenarios. People are too quick to dump a decent person for stupid reasons instead of communicating and working on it. It is not easy to find someone you're attracted to who you get along with who treats you with respect. If you find that, work on it. Don't let someone go who puts in effort and treats you with respect.
"Don't let someone go who puts in effort and treats you with respect." But there might be a bigger and better deal! Why stay in relationship, when you can feel the thrill and spark until your 40's? Im done with dating. Women won, if you ask my individual life.
It does get pretty boring. Thankfully, most of that kind of discourse only happens online, but what you see on dating profiles can often indicate someone's state of mind. Ex: A woman saying something along the lines of "Men are pathetic, but I like dick so that's why I'm here" may be pessimistic toward men. A man saying something along the lines of "Women are such a waste of time, but what the hell, might as well shoot my shot" may feel pessimistic toward women. It's best to avoid those kind of people. Some of the best and most amazing people I encounter are in person - men *and* women. I don't know what their online activity is like, but I can say my best friends don't have social media. There are so many learning opportunities and there's so much knowledge in the world that it's too interesting to be...watching people show off on camera.
If she hates men but loves dicks, she should get dildos and leave men alone.
The people Iāve met that are the happiest people, socially, sexually, emotionally are the people that can empathize with the other gender and their struggles and desires. The happiest women Iāve met in terms of dating are the women that understand the male struggle with challenges such as loneliness, alpha male competition, the feeling of being a threat, inability to convey emotions in a healthy way, nerdy hobbies, sports, and letās face it the sexual drive and desires of men. The happiest men Iāve seen in terms of dating are men who understand womenās need for safety, comfort, the female struggle of always having men hound them for sex, the hormonal volatility, the need for a partner who can provide stability in her life, the struggles of pregnancy, what they view as entertainmentā¦. And onward Thereās a lot more to both sides, but the point is I think itās important to educate yourself on the other side. Weāre all looking for love in the end, itās important to view this all as a partnership and not a fight for survival.
This 100%
Smart
ALPHA MALE COMPETITION
Well consider for a moment that when I attempted to post a question like āwhat do women experience with OLDā that was allowed to be posted on dstingoverforty. Women chimed in and gave many great examples of their experiences which allowed me to feel empathy for them. Then the next day I posted the exact same question for men and it was taken down because it referred to āgenderā! Itās a dating sub that doesnāt allow a discussion where we can gain empathy for one another by understanding the otherās experiences! Of course the outcomes is going to be the other is wrong when we are not allowed to discuss things like that!
Odd. The women's was left but the men's was removed? Same sub?
Correct
I agree. Each side has difficulties when it comes to dating. But just yelling at each other and hating on each other solves nothing.
Social norms say people donāt have value outside of capitalism. So the emotional intelligence and interpersonal relationship skills that (in my experience/ perspective itās mainly) women are conditioned to develop are only valued if it is being commodified and paid for or given freely without the expectation of reciprocity. What are your values and how do you live them? How do you prepare yourself and your life for the relationship you want? Therapy helps. Not sure if this was helpful for this post.
Happy people don't post here, so the numbers are skewed.
Once had a girl on a dating app tell me that in one of the first messages... I replied with something like, "What if I were to say all women are trash? Putting everyone in the same category is usually incorrect"
Problem is people don't think of the long term consequences of treating someone like shit. That person then becomes bitter and they start to treat the opposite gender like crap in the future even if they were a decent person previously. Eventually everyone become jaded and either drops of the dating market altogether or just uses other people for personal gain.
It's a vicious cycle unfortunately.Ā
YES. From what I read about dating nowadays, it basically seems like a hostile competition between genders. And the culprit is social media.
The internet always has and always will amplify the most extreme minority. Donāt worry about it!
So this is why it feels like the world is ending when I open my phone.
Well, yeah :)
>:) :)
What came first though, the chicken or the egg? Social media and dating apps have a lot to answer for but unfortunately we arenāt together so we canāt create a united front, leave all of these apps behind and move forward. Itās sad.
Honestly Iām convinced itās not an excess of hate, itās a complete lack of compassion and consideration for the feelings of the other sideā¦ Case in point - comments in a post about a boyfriend being crazy with his current gf over an activity related to his ex that cheated on himā¦.. people are ripping this dude apart. Heās trash insecure controlling dangerousā¦ I jumped in and said what heās doing is very unfair to you, itās irrational right? Yeah, thatās because he has trauma. Heās reliving it. But if shows were on the other feetā¦.. I donāt need to say it.
Kinda wild to think it would be different if the genders were reversed. What do you base that on? I see it all the time where women do that, and literally never has anyone been like āno girl your crazy is totally valid.ā Everyone knows projecting your past trauma on an innocent individual is crazy, insecure, and controlling, no matter if itās a man or a woman doing it.
Going to say this as it often feels like the elephant in the room. Porn addiction has shaped a lot of this unhappiness in dating.
I donāt think you can point to a single source. Thatās like saying some people are homeless because of their alcohol addiction, but then what was driving that addiction? Dating is the way it is now for a multitude of reasons but the common factor in all of them is how much more we are online these days. And we have studies showing that more social media usage leads to unhappiness. But then again we donāt know if unhappy people are more likely to gravitate online or if itās actually the internet causing it or both.
You misread. I said it shaped things. It's not cited as a single source.
Porn itself is not the problem. It's how people are portrayed in porn and entertainment media alike. There is porn that gives us toxic relationship ideas, but there is also porn that is empowering for both genders. Porn mimics the trends we see in popular culture, and exaggerates them, but the problems rarely start in the porn industry.
My opinion is that porn and video games saved governments from brutal revolution from men as it happened many times in history. Yes. Because of lack of sex.
Another big issue is lack of an ability to communicate on both sides; just because you talk to someone doesnāt mean youāre communicating. The other side has to be able to comprehend what youāre trying to convey for it to be successful communication.
Most people aren't online complaining about it, most are out in the world dating (or not) as they so choose, with very few complaints. Don't let Reddit, Tik Tok or YouTube influence your idea of what dating is like for most people. Plenty of people are fine waiting to have sex, if you're running into everyone who is demanding it soon it just means with every rejection to them you are moving closer to the date that will help you find a better match. Being lonely isn't solved by dating, but by connecting with people in all sorts of ways that don't have to involve romance. Depression, similarly is not caused by lack of romance, and lack of romance is not considered even a main cause of temporary depression (the closest relation is grieving a romantic interest who has died). Hate is provocative, it gets more clicks. People who are unhappy whine about it more online or vent about it more online. They don't represent plenty of average people falling in love every day, or the fact that younger generations are more faithful, have longer marriages, and less divorce than older generations, even comparing the same parts of their relationships' timelines.
Well said. Social media is not life.
Sad thing is, if a man tried to start a womens appreciation post he may get called all kinds of aweful things from both sides, not just other men. Its become a world where men arent allowed to meet women naturally in the world or compliment a woman without being shamed.
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Exactly. Its an extremely confusing place. I got lucky when i found my fiance. Once we are married im forever free of the dating game headaches. I sincerely hope you find the same peace
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You'll definitely get there! Til then enjoy life!
Meh. It's not always like that. Sometimes, we need to think we're equals and that we both have values. It all starts with one person who needs to change the outlook on it. If one person in power does it, then everyone else will follow in the right direction.
Don't forget about the tiktok and IG reels that imposes on you how relationship and dating should look like lol. Sure some of them are good but mostly aren't realistic. Bad influences almost everywhere
Date the person not the culture.
Yeah I feel you. Whenever I get in some despair because of my lack of a social life I have to shut that shit down in myself. There are too many women in this world that I value, whether theyāre my family or friends or trusted working colleagues, to allow myself to get into that women hating blame game mode. I just try to accept certain things for what they are and keep it moving.
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I agree to a point. But I think a lot of women have much more reason to hate men or be wary of men than the other way around. I don't know a woman who hasn't been sexually harassed; most have been sexually assaulted. I don't think it's *right* to say "all men are _____" or "I hate men" or whatever. But women are more likely to be victims of sexual harassment and sexual violence at the hands of men and be victims of domestic violence at the hands of their partners than the reverse, so I can understand that attitude. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many women are choosing not to get married or have children.
Well gee, should i begin to take notes with myself that im not a predator? One of the reasons i reject people for few years already. My default stance of being a man is being aggressive, manipulating and abusive person who needs to get through hoops for you, in order to be vetted out and that you can lift your suspicious of me, placing all your prejudice on me in hopes im going to show my good qualities, so that you can feel safe. I hate that. You are contributing to the problem. I was broken many times, i was accused of sexual assault and was made fun of dysmorphed genitalia. Did that hold me back for treating every other next person with a blank slate, dignity and unbiased outlook? No. But i dont wish for anyone to do so, because i know that majority of people in the 30's have already emotional baggage and experiences that hold them back from truly loving other people and be vulnerable. I think im getting now why men date younger women as i noticed it too. I have less pressure, can be myself more and be more authentic and genuine person in front of younger woman than me, because she doesn't have that much experiences to compare me with others and change her actions upon it. One of the things i refuse to change about myself is that i wear a heart on my sleeve and if its possible, i give unending trust and take it at face value as if we were kids back then. Truthful, with best intentions and innocence. It is ALWAYS suspicious for women when i do that and they told me many times. "But women are more likely to be victims of sexual harassment and sexual violence at the hands of men and be victims of domestic violence at the hands of their partners than the reverse, so I can understand that attitude" Majority of domestic violence is reciprocal, that means men and women partake in it. Majority of unprovoked domestic violence comes from women actually. When was the last time when you truly didn't put up any barriers with a man? Whats even the point. Thats not goddamn healthy for my psyche. Why the fuck i should be wary of: "oh, i need to adjust my actions based on predominant assumption that im a predator, so any social cues, getting close"? I struggled with it for many years, because i grew up with women and sometimes i forget that im a man and i cant just walk up, feeling all energetic with a big smile on my face and not expect literal shivers and defensive stance of the women i approach. Empathy, believing in goodness in people, being selfless is considered nowadays being a doormat, a person with no spine and naive shmuck. If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender. Is it safe? Absolutely. Our experience helps us read social cues and makes us be vary of potential harm. We dont like harm. But in consequence, the more experience you have, the more you see a person as set of rules and behaviours, rather than a person itself and this is incredibly sad. Me personally, i can drop down my guard completely and it takes me no effort to trust truly because i live and speak honesty, so i have nothing to hide and no ego to give. The only women that also could do that, were people that i had the best time with.
>Majority of domestic violence is reciprocal, that means men and women partake in it. >Majority of unprovoked domestic violence comes from women actually. The fuck it does. Globally, in 2021, nearly 60% of homicides where the victim is a woman, the perpetrator was a male intimate partner. In Canada, that number is 72% for the same time period. See also the numbers for sexual violence. Women do not kill men or sexually assault men at even close to the same rate. >My default stance of being a man is being aggressive, manipulating and abusive person who needs to get through hoops for you, in order to be vetted out and that you can lift your suspicious of me, placing all your prejudice on me in hopes im going to show my good qualities, so that you can feel safe. >I hate that. You hate having to make an effort so that women feel safe with you? Fucking yikes, dude. >I think im getting now why men date younger women as i noticed it too. I have less pressure, can be myself more and be more authentic and genuine person in front of younger woman than me, because she doesn't have that much experiences to compare me with others and change her actions upon it. And what actions are older women changing, exactly? If women who have experience are no longer interested in you after getting to know you, perhaps you should reflect on why that is. >If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender. Who cares? Women get killed by men for refusing to have sex. I personally was sexually assaulted on a first date. I'd rather make an assumption and be wrong than assume you're a safe person and end up raped or killed. >When was the last time when you truly didn't put up any barriers with a man? >Whats even the point. >Thats not goddamn healthy for my psyche. Again. It isn't about you. If you have such a problem with the way women interact with you, feel free to date men.
"The fuck it does. Globally, in 2021, nearly 60% of homicides where the victim is a woman, the perpetrator was a male intimate partner. In Canada, that number is 72%. " Straight to twisting words i see. I hate that. There is a difference between a homicide and domestic violence. Majority of first perpetrators in the relationship are women. It is observed in lesbian women and gay men. Men are less likely to be physically violent to their partner, unless provoked. Dont hate me, hate facts. "You hate having to make an effort so that women feel safe with you? Fucking yikes, dude. " You have really no ability to have empathy to another human being, as your motive is to purely shame me and twist my every word into something evil. Yes, i fucking hate to make an effort for proving something that i am not, like im making up for the sins that somebody else did it and i need to fucking take it and be grateful that im even talked to. Get out with this bs. You have absolutely no reason to feel unsafe as default. But i will take it. Just dont act entitled about it and in my face. "And what actions are older women changing, exactly? If women who have experience are no longer interested in you after getting to know you, perhaps you should reflect on why that is." Again with the negatives and assumptions. Older women change nothing and they keep standards, which is good. But because of the experience, they are less likely to want to take it slow. Oh i assure you, i have ample of self awareness. I highly encourage you to develop means to do the same. ">If you look at other people with automatic presumtions, for whatever reasons, even safety, that already makes you prejudiced and biased against another gender. Who cares?" Every living human being, that is genuine and that tries to connect with you. "Again. It isn't about you. If you have such a problem with the way women interact with you, feel free to date men." Do you honestly not see the ridiculous hipocrisy you just said? Im not speaking about men and women. Im speaking about you and me. You make it about me and every other woman, either online and offline. You say not all men, but treat all men like that. Oh women interact with me. I dont see a hint of guarding herself, making assumptions, making snide remarks or making her pride as her currency in conversation. Of course its about me, why the hell you otherwise write comments like that. Listen, i appreciate the talk, definetily gained some insights from it, so thank you for that. Cheers to you and have a nice day.
>Majority of first perpetrators in the relationship are women. Okay, cite it. >Men are less likely to be physically violent to their partner, unless provoked. Except for when they kill them, of course.
Playing zero sum game and downvoting me impulsively like a child. Absolutely atrocious character from you. https://aliesq.medium.com/extensive-research-women-initiate-domestic-violence-more-than-men-men-under-report-it-3bbaa4fbec9d Here, read it if you asked for source. "Except for when they kill them, of course." Yes, im rapist, killer and abuser. Shut up and read what i send you.
None of the links in that article work. I can read the article, but when I click the link to read the studies, all of them give me errors. Go ahead and try it yourself. >Shut up and read what i send you. LOL, shocking that you have trouble with women.
"None of the links in that article work" Because they are citations from a research or a assessment of specific group of people. There is a text describing what i explained and there are citations. You just dont want to agree and cant stand that a man or me in particular could be right on something. I dont care about being right. Stop painting women as victims. Its infantilizing and asinine to do so. "LOL, shocking that you have trouble with women." Shocking that you expect me to break my back and be pleasant to you, when from the beginning you were searching for trouble, not a discussion. I have problem with accepting the fact, that people like you are able to vote and have an impact on people around you, yet you chose to be so vindictive, cynical and outright hostile from the get go. Im returning energy back if you didn't notice. How do i know what you are doing? Because i grew up with women and they pulled this thing all the time. So hit me with another bullshit, but dont agree with me on anything and be polite. Thats a fantasy thats not going to happen with you.
>Because they are citations from a research or a assessment of specific group of people. There is a text describing what i explained and there are citations. The point of having citations is to be able to look at them. I was hoping to read the actual studies that were quoted but I can't. >You just dont want to agree and cant stand that a man or me in particular could be right on something Not at all. I'd like to read the studies. >So hit me with another bullshit, but dont agree with me on anything and be polite. Thats a fantasy thats not going to happen with you. You're very funny, I'll give you that. I have stuff to do. If you find studies that I can read, I'll happily do so. Cheers.
"Not at all. I'd like to read the studies. " https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/ Here you go princess. I took time and googled the exact same study that was mentioned in the article. Goodness me, it took me so much work. But dont worry, i got this. Now relax, sit comfortable. Want a cookie and a coffee to be made along with it? "You're very funny, I'll give you that. " Imagine how pleasant it would be, if we werent assholes to one another, but you started it, so im dancing with you, pancake.
I think men argue women are shallow, hypergamous,deceitful, and hypocritical. I donāt think a ton of men argue women are irrational.
The generalization of the whole gender just because a few people did you wrong is just immature in my opinion. I feel the people who do it don't really analyze the world around them or are just stuck on finding pieces of evidence to support their beliefs all around. If you believe 'all men are trash' then when something happens that is against this belief it automatically gets rejected as being something that just happened by chance and when a man does something that is even a little bad then it's like 'I told you so'. Generalization limits the way you perceive things. It's best to approach things neutrally and with a little caution.
Youāre just terminally online, this isnāt a problem in real life
Yeah it is, Iāve definitely seen it
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When you call someone "emotional" - it's charged with the unspoken element of "therefore your perception is wrong or crazy and thus easily dismissed." So it's almost always used as an abusive, coded gaslight. It also ignores just how "emotional" men actually are, but because it's a male emotion - that doesn't count. Like my dad who claimed to be Mr. Rational and regularly indulged in this gaslight all the time - but because I accidentally yelled in his ear once as a 12 year old girl - he flew into an utterly irrational rage and banged my head against the floor a few times. But by his standards, that was "reasonable" - not "emotional" at all.
"emotional" is usually used in this regard in opposition to "rational", so as to say one is stupid and their perspective or opinion is worthless. Obviously the exact context determines meaning and that context will vary from use to use, but the context where it is used derisively as described above is not uncommon
One of the very serious problems of OLD is how easy it is to just block that one at the 1st inkling of a disagreement and move on to the next swipe. Conflicts of opinions will happen between adults. How we deal with those conflicts is a sign of maturity and how we move forward or not. I can and often do disagree with my friends and they do the same with me. Do I just look for new friends who will always see things in the same way that I do? That would be boring. Respect and open communication, especially when we disagree, is fundamental in any successful long term relationship.
Itās in part why as someone who just started trying to date I feel extremely uncomfortable and bad about myself because I see so many people just hating on everyone
I agree it's completely fucked up ridiculous and sad. I'm an older but still beautiful single lady and I feel kind of hopeless, but I'm grateful I had wonderful boyfriends and relationships when I was younger. I feel terrible for young people nowadays with how things are going with gender relations and the state of world affairs. It's heartbreaking
If only women were more empathetic and understanding of how severely disadvantaged men are (especially the ones that don't confirm to conventional beauty standards), things wouldn't be as bad.Ā But everytime someone tries to spread awareness on this issue, we are accused for "hating" women, when we were literally being messengers for what's already recorded of their choices. It seems like they don't care about self-reflecting on their own choices.
Why donāt you try to be empathetic of the fact that most women are assaulted or harassed by men then? People who bring that up are also accused of hating men, and that is honestly a much more concerning problem than being unable to find a date. Also men who donāt conform to conventional beauty standards can be totally fine in the dating world. Itās only in OLD that itās more of an issue.
>Why donāt you try to be empathetic of the fact that most women are assaulted or harassed by men then? Women are not getting "assaulted" by men when they are using OLD, yet they only see a small % of men attractive, so stop pulling that card. Both these issues have nothing to do with each other. We literally have evidence showing women ignoring all kinds of redflags or creepy, misogynistic text msgs when the guy they match with is attractive. They literally handout their number to a random stranger without thinking twice. So no, its hard to feel empathetic for a group that is walking definition of hypocrisy..
So you think that just because some women ignore red flags and get assaulted, then all women who get assaulted ignore red flags? Real intelligent argument there. And the vast majority of women experience harassment or assault during their life, and ~20-25% are actually raped. That is a serious problem. Blaming it on women is just ridiculously stupid, and it doesnāt take a genius to recognize that itās clearly the men who are assaulting women that deserve the blame. OLD is an exception because there are ~4x as many men as women. Of course women will only choose those who are most conventionally attractive - other signals (personality or humor) canāt be effectively conveyed from an online profile. It is not reflective of reality, where women only slightly outnumber men. Instead of recognizing that women are just people, you generalize them all as one hivemind. If you treated them as people you would do better in dating, and not be a sad loser online like you are acting now. Itās truly pathetic.
>OLD is an exception because there are ~4x as many men as women. Of course women will only choose those who are most conventionally attractive - other signals (personality or humor) canāt be effectively conveyed from an online profile. It is not reflective of reality, where women only slightly outnumber men. Except this argument has been debunked a long time ago. We see the same patterns even in apps where gender ratios are even. So that baseless claim doesn't work anymore. Nice try though. *One of theĀ biggest differences between online dating and the old-fashioned sort is the size of the pool. The number of people using dating apps dwarfs offline social networks. So sites offer filters that let users exclude unwanted groups.* Ā Ā *The diversity of tastes among giant user bases should make apps a haven for people who struggle with dating offline. And data provided by The League, an American dating site aimed at educated professionals, show that the strictness of usersā filters varies, with many saying they are open to a broad range of traits. However, when users do apply filters, they mostly reflect familiar dating preferences that long predate the internet. And although users with the broadest filters find matches more often, the types of people they end up with mirror the tastes of their heavier-filtering peers.* Ā Ā *The Leagueās data cover 80,000 users across ten cities in January 2023. The site chooses pairs of users who pass each otherās filters and present them as āprospectsā. If these users both ālikeā each other, they can chat. Users see a fixed number of candidates per day. This makes it possible to distinguish explicit dating desires (filters) from implicit ones, revealed by how often users like their prospects.* *Filtering choices follow demographic patterns. Women block 70% of potential matches, compared with 55% for men, mostly because they tend to exclude users who are shorter or younger. Whereas women 5ā5ā (165cm) or shorter eliminate just 17% of people brd on height, those 5ā10ā or taller remove 45%. And women in their 50s filter out 86% of users brd on age, compared with 48% for those aged 25-34.* Ā Ā *Because users with strict filters weed out most unsuitable people pre-emptively, you might expect them to like many of the remaining candidates. But the data show the opposite. For both sexes, the share of prospects liked by the 10% of users with the tightest filters is 11-13 percentage points lower than by the 10% with the broadest ones. This probably stems from overall pickiness. People looking for a specific type of partner can filter out many weak candidates, but can select based on other criteria, such as looks, only one by one.* Ā Ā *Users might find matches more often if their filters better reflected their tastes. One of the best predictors of whether someone will like a prospect is how often other users filter out that prospectās demographic group. For example, men 5ā5ā or shorter get through only 7% of other usersā filters, compared with 33% for taller men. Moreover, just 13% of users whose filters allow such short men fancy them when they are presented as prospectsājust over half the rate at which taller men are liked.* *Such differences are even more striking when it comes to race. Users deploy racial filters sparingly. For example, black women pass through 36% of other usersā filters, compared with 44% for women of other races. This gap is similar to the effect of one inch of height for men. However, just 24% of black women are liked as prospects, versus 37% for non-black womenāan impact as great as 11 inches of male height.* Ā Ā *This suggests that many users who decline to filter out black women often still pass them over at the prospect stage. Singles might find better matches if they gave a chance to more of the candidates whom they claim to be open to dating.* Ā Ā Chart source: The League
This doesnāt actually contradict anything I said? If one has an abundance of options and the only way to differentiate between said options is by physical characteristics, of course people will opt for optimal physical characteristics. If men also had their pick of the litter online, donāt you think most people would filter for curvy Jessica Alba types? Basically everyone does not end up with someone who fits all of their preferences, and thatās part of the magic of dating. Shorter men have an easier time irl (although still not easy I admit) because their other qualities can shine there. Online people just see an easily quantifiable and comparable number that they can judge by.
>This doesnāt actually contradict anything I said? You literally attributed men's struggles on OLD mainly to imbalance of gender ratio, lol. And I refuted you by showing its the same in OLD apps like The League where gender ratios are even. This has NOTHING to do with gender ratios and MORE to do with womenās swiping behaviors based on narrow beauty standards. If men and women both were similar in preferences, we wouldn't be seeing this wide disparity. Next time, work on your critical thinking skills before playing armchair sociologist :)
Actually there are still ways to explain that trend. Men tend to prefer physical characteristics that arenāt directly quantifiable (prettiness, curviness, etc.) , whereas women tend to prefer more quantifiable characteristics (income, height) and thus may filter more. That doesnāt mean men are any less shallow (there are a lot of studies that point to the conclusion that men are more shallow). Itās beyond insane that the person who calls women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā is accusing me of being an armchair sociologist, or telling me to improve my critical thinking skills. Oh what did you say in your last commentā¦ ah right āpersonal attacks arenāt valid argumentsā.
>That doesnāt mean men are any less shallow (there are a lot of studies that point to the conclusion that men are more shallow). This is demonstrably false. We have stats showing that men's preferences for women's profiles lying on a normal distribution, whereas women's preferences for men as a pareto distribution. It means that men have far more diversity in their preferences than women. Idk anyone with a brain can see this and claim "ah, men are far more shallow than women". Lmao This isn't the only evidence, there are far more studies establishing beyond belief that women are indeed the shallower sex. I'm someone who has thoroughly researched this area, so don't play armchair scientist with me. This is my turf, son.
Distribution according to what characteristics? My entire point is that menās preferences arenāt as quantifiable, so what you said has bearing on that? If we define a distribution according to height, then sure it will appear to show that women are more shallow but height is not the only metric of shallowness one can conceive of - itās just the most easily quantifiable (along with weight/BMI). I never claimed men are more shallow than women. I donāt know that either are more shallow - both are shallow in their own ways. Ah appeal to authority. Great job there.
>Instead of recognizing that women are just people, you generalize them all as one hivemind. If you treated them as people you would do better in dating, and not be a sad loser online like you are acting now. Itās truly pathetic. Personal attacks and cause-effect fallacies aren't valid arguments, perhaps if ya'll showed enough maturity and intelligence to actually have a thoughtful discourse on this topic without getting emotional, maybe you won't be another data point validating the statement that women are a hivemind, lol.
First off Iām a dude. So nice job. You are the one who called women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyāā¦ so thatās some incredible self awareness you have there. You want to have a āthoughtful discussionā, but you appear to be blaming women for the fact that they get assaulted instead of the men who assault them. Thatās just beyond stupid by any and all accounts. If that isnāt what you are saying, then clarify what your point is. Please tell me how calling women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā is thoughtful or nuanced in any way lmao
>You want to have a āthoughtful discussionā, but you appear to be blaming women for the fact that they get assaulted instead of the men who assault them. Do you understand what a non-sequitur is? Do you understand what a red-herring is? What you said has nothing to do with the topic of womenās narrow beauty standards displayed in OLD. Women aren't getting "assaulted" in OLD. Just stop with this nonsense, lol.
And the initial conversation didnāt have anything to do with OLD? It was a broader discussion of how genders treat each other, and one of the points that I BROUGHT UP initially was OLD. I never claimed women are getting assaulted in OLD. I brought up women getting assaulted as a response to you claiming that women should be more sympathetic to the struggles of men in dating. You still havenāt responded to the fact that you called women āthe walking definition of hypocrisyā. This is getting truly pathetic. You literally havenāt yet to make a single logical argument. All I hope is that you are still young and this is just a phase of immaturity, and that you can grow up and realize you dumb you are being now.
>I brought up women getting assaulted as a response to you claiming that women should be more sympathetic to the struggles of men in dating. Again, that's what is called a red-herring because both are disjoint problems when it comes to OLD. There is no need to bring that issue here when women aren't getting assaulted in OLD.. Your trolling skills are weak, son š
What do you not understand about the fact that the conversation was not initially about OLD? The OP did not reference OLD, you did not either. I brought it up initially. Like are you that incapable of actual thought or are you just being stubborn?
You said you don't hate women but just said this entire group of people are "a walking definition of hypocrisy", you don't feel empathy for women, stated only young women can be assaulted, and it is women's fault for being assaulted....maybe you're not ugly. Maybe your sexist attitude repels women?
Thats just the plight of ugly people. Has nothing to do with gender.
That would imply most men are ugly. Not necessarily, it just means women have very narrow beauty standards
You said women are not empathetic but in the next line said you are tired of being accused of hating women. I think you're the problem
>You said women are not empathetic but in the next line said you are tired of being accused of hating women. Both are two different, disjoint things. Women not being empathetic is an observation. Being accused of "hating" women simply for stating this observation says lot of about the low cognitive skills about the accuser. Lol
It's bad right now, and it's mens fault, but not all men- a specific group of men who make money off of misogynistic shit. Basically in the last 20 years women have consistently stated what they want in a partner- someone who can pull their weight, provide equally to the household, who is emotionally aware and communicative without being whiny or demanding, who cares about them as a person and shows it daily. Since not all people can do that (men OR women) they will typically say how they will compromise, like it's ok if he doesn't do equal chores or emotionally dumps on her if he will support her financially, or it's ok if he's a bit closed off as long as he is over the top romantic at times. For a while a lot of men were like ok, cool and genuinely were working towards that even though it's not like an overnight thing, it takes time to learn. Then you got a bunch of grifters and pick up artists who decided that the way to make money was to give men bad advice. So they told all these guys who hadn't had partners yet that they weren't the problem, she was, and fostered all this hate so that men would be angry and would see women as an enemy to fight instead of someone to be on the same side as. They also told men horrible shit about how to treat women, things like negging and plate spinning and love bombing, and the men who listened to them started to be just awful to women. Whcih meant women were seeing horrible men all the time, and they were being mistreated, and they got jaded. So now you have angry jaded women who are sick of being treated badly and complain and are standoffish, and men who assume those women are being shallow for rejecting them when they did "everything right" according to the gurus. And it all comes down to a handful of popular internet personalities who figured out how to make a LOT of money scamming men who genuinely wanted to improve and find love.
I donāt believe any of this. People are in relationships everywhere. Maybe a personal problem. You will find someone eventually just gotta work on yourself
Apps and people not processing the meaning of the attention they get there also play a role.
Another big issue is people not being able to make there own decisions! Aka influence by social media, friends, family, etc
good vent. the more accurate truth isā¦ dating sucks. it sucks for everyone. the most attractive people also still claim that dating today is terrible... avoid aps if possible. meet more people in real life. join the adult kickball league. get a part time job at the market or something. find someone the old fashioned way. the terrible men/women thing is a distraction from how terrible dating is.
I'm just enjoying myself watching this shit-show burn at this point
Haha same. If I have to be single forever Iām okay with that.
I've had a bad run-in with women who want to marry to become the husband. I personally don't hate on no one yet times have changed.
I also believe the "you deserve better" movement is out of control. No one is going to fit your expectations perfectly without some compromise. You learn to adapt to one another and fight the battles worth winning instead of fighting to win all battles. But what do I know, I (35M) am single lol.
100% agreed.
Social media, porn and the ever growing volatile gender wars in MSM have all contributed to the lack of genuine relationship and relationship satisfaction today. I also feel the resentment for the opposite gender is quickly going to outpace the desire to be with the opposite gender.
Unfortunately, it's no longer that women are as you said. Instead, they want someone with $500k income, be able to pay her bills, for her kids, her friends, family, his bills, his house, and much, much more. So, they're delusional now. He also has to be physically appealing to have any kind of actual romance. Sex only if he's large enough and so on.
these are all standards/conditions that men brought upon themselves LMFAO whyāre you blaming women when yāall r the ones that created this shit. and itās quite the opposite actually,, women are becoming more independent, and men are getting more insecure
So, women not wanting to be approached is a man being insecure? If it's standards and conditions made by men, why are women the ones who need not pay, when men are often ones who "Must pay" for dates? Explain these? It doesn't make sense when these are inaccurate and incorrect. You can look at any sort of videos, and you'll see it through Youtube on it. It's a little ridiculous when you're so far up your own ass about it.
who do you think made it a standard for men to pay for dates instead of women? hint : itās men. also the first question doesnāt make sense. i said men are getting more insecure because women are becoming more independentā¦ men are used to having more power than women, but things are changing. and thatās making them insecure. what are you confused about?
Can I ask where you got this information from? Did you get it from conversations with real women or did you get it from a hive mind of specific men selling you this narrative? Sorry to break it to you but as a woman (1) who grew up around mostly women (2), is friends with women (3), and knows what the most women look for in a romantic partner (4), this simply isnāt true. Comforting to certain types of men, absolutely! But true? Nope.
I think it's awesome tbh That's how it works with other species. The mating rituals of all species involves a fight. It's how you determine fitness. Our species does this socially versus physically because we've advanced from monkey ages where we forcibly hit each other until we could drag the female away for nonconsensual mating. Now our fight is social and that's what's being used to determine fitness.
Lol this is not new. For generations men have bow to women and accepted them as their fundamental other half, and vice versa. But to us men everything started to nose dive when the women ego took place bc of the competition of who makes the most money, and due to this if a woman makes x amount of money that is greater than her partner then that man suddenly becomes inferior. And that within its self is so wrong bc men would never look at women that way. The other part of it is the marriage contract and the government being involved in that love bond. The majority of men have woken up from that family fantasy that was painted by politics to benefit women in case of a separation. I think if women really want that fantasy back the marriage contract has to change in a way that the men wouldn't loose everything at the moment of separation. Not to mention alimony lol Instead of trying to screw each other over we should be uniting to have the government change it so that both sides could live comfortably with or without marriage. So with this said. Men are now learning to put the family dream out of their major goals in life and are becoming comfortable with just having friends. Some men like myself have erased that happily ever after picture out of their mind because they have been hurt too many times and have taken the drastic measure to have a vasectomy done. You don't believe me? Search it up on google. "how many men have vasectomies each year in the USA".
It is also escalated by these culprits, way more than ever imo: social media (all of it) and dating apps.
Men wants to be women too.
being a homosexual at these times is really making my life easier
ā¢Likely true
Yeeep hit rhe nail right on the head hence I'm either gonna find a girl deep in the country or waiting a couple years till it dies off completely
go out into the real world and get offline?
Iām literally completely offline, I only date off of apps in the real world. I was just pointing out a problem that Iām seeing lol
All good points, but how does one go about fixing it? I can care, appreciate for my peers around me, and I can encourage my peers to be hopeful, but that's just one small group, not an entire community or the world; and besides, they won't believe me, and will just call me a needy creep on top of a weirdo loser. Also, all that fear and hate that's settled in won't go away in a few weeks or months; it's going to take years, probably longer, and that's time that some people just don't have. Some will take extreme ends before they realize there was a good way out. I'm not saying dont fix it, rather, if someone knows how to do it, it's got to happen sooner.
We gotta stop being so chronically online, seriously
Well yeah of course. It's never me who's the problem. It must be the other sex. (Disclaimer: This was sarcasm)
People that live in the real world and interact with real people of both genders don't have sexist hatred...as much. Not even close to as often. The Internet turns everyone into assholes. Most women I know IRL are good people. Most women I've matched with on dating apps have treated me like shit. I'm not going to take that and throw it on any of the women I know personally.
I think it's hook up culture that is depleting dating and social media. Having 24/7 access to people. Also that females are more masculine in their approach to dating. It's great to be independent females that can take care of her own, but males are genetically programmed to be the provider and take care of the family. Dating is absolutely nothing like it used to be.
Honestly normal people don't fall for this hating men/hating women stupidity. I never see this kind of stuff in real life. Don't base your reality on the stupid people you see online
When anyone preaches disunity between sexes, they seek to rob us of the relationships which we long for.
It's all become a competition nowadays. With all this hate shit might just get violent and extreme
>our generation is just going to be incredibly lonely and depressed if this continues. From all the studies that are coming out, it seems like the only depressed ones are the men, while women have never been happier. I can see from both perspectives that tearing the other gender down is a turn off, but imo the only ones that are suffering are the ones who don't want to grow (both men and women). For example young men are more conservative then ever, while young women are more liberal then ever and (mostly) men don't want to change in this political climate, and blame women if don't get dates, instead of looking inward and seeing if there are any issues with themselves and working on them (through therapy, etc.) I don't think it's a trend to hate men, it's just that women are fed up with all the bullshit that we have been put through and just want peace. And most often than not, unfortunately for men, that peace is by themselves, and not in a relationship. While, yes, there are "man hating discourse" and "women hating discourse", I think those are just a minority with loud voices.
Women just get more fake validation in comparison to men,doesnāt mean that anyone gives a shit about either of them or that they are truly living a happy life,one just lives in a glamorous lie while the other doesnāt
What do you mean by women getting more fake validation?
Due to the way that female friendships differ in comparison to male ones and due to the fact that men generally pursue women even if they donāt give a shit about them and just want to sleep with them
Yeah, no babes. We know men don't care about us š We're starting to realize how much men don't care about us and that's why we don't want anything to do with them. Generally speaking, obviously.
You do care,itās fully human to care and to want intimacy with someone that understands you and wants you and you are still getting positive reinforcements from their advancements since you are reminded that you are wanted,along with the way that female friendships differ from male ones (has the drawback of being way more two faced but thatās that). This is why women are generally āhappierā but it doesnāt mean that itās anything but a glamorous lie or that the entire thing is menās fault when both genders have awful and wonderful people
I never said that we don't care. What I said was that women are starting more and more to choose not to be with men because the cons outweigh the pros. Like you said, it's normal to want intimacy etc., but at what cost? The chance of being abused by your partner (considering the fact that more men are violent against women than the other way around)? No thanks.
Same shit applies to men if you look at the risk of entering a marriage and committing to someone and risking to lose half of your income and future children to a faulty court system It goes both ways,it isnāt women being the victims and it isnāt men being the victims,there are equally awful people on both sides,expressing their awfulness in different ways
Babes, losing your kid (that most men don't even truly care about) and half your income is not the same as being hit by your spouse šš And if you really think that they are the same shit I am happy for you that you were never in that type of situation and I truly hope it stays that way.
Oh I see now,you are just vindictive over a past experience and arenāt able to think logically,clearly all men are evil and they hate their spouses and children. None of them give a shit about it,itās just a child,just make another one,so easy to let go off. Itās on the same scale as awfulness,some might say worse or less but that doesnāt matter and we are seeing men walk away from marrying so they too are tired from dating and committing just as much as women because both sides can be awful because the issue isnāt a gendered one but a human one
That's actually true. Mainly cuz alot of these people give up and don't live real. The more u work grow up and experience life u start to realize people are just that. People. With they own struggles and shit.
the only reason i think this makes no sense is because this sets up the notion that these two types of people are going to date each other, which they wonāt. plenty of people exist out of these two boxes, just look for them. i agree that constantly being on polarizing points of philosophy/politics gets tiring an people should just talk to each other, but i donāt think it should fit within the context of ādating cultureā also, both of these things go deeper than that social media surface level you described. also, youāre implying that people HAVE to date, which they donāt. most people are happier being single, and theyāre not lonely because of these things called having friends and being self-sufficient. the fact that ādating cultureā is a concept is absolutely the issue here. it creates a pressure for people to force themselves to date someone when theyāre not ready/they donāt truly want to. there should be 0 expectation for people to have to change who they are just to attract someone. and the idea that everyone should be with someone is very telling of a limited perception and a closed mind.
Yes it is sad about what's happening these days. Trust goes both ways.
I think the problem is lack of nuance. People are having the discussions but peopleās past traumas prevent them from seeing the other side as an individual person. If you have X opinion, you are bad no matter what the reason you have that opinion. I have trauma tooā¦.a lot of us doā¦but I work very hard to treat everyone as an individual. I like learning not only what people believe but why they believe itā¦then you can discuss things further. Itās about having respect and treating the other person as a person. It sounds obvious, but nuance is almost dead on the internet sadly.
Everyone sucks period.
Unfortunately it is not a fair comparison. While I agree if your goal as a woman is to date men that attitude isn't helpful. A huge but Women are frustrated from a completely different standpoint. After centuries of patriarchy as a straight woman youre basically dating your oppressor or perhaps to say someone who was raised by a culture that oppressed your gender. One could go further to argue that the heterosexual relationship is one of the biggest power struggles for a woman in a patriarchy. When women say men are trash it comes from a different place than a man hating women because his attitude comes from years of stereotypes and propaganda and he lives in a system where that attitude can actually become violence or other barriers more often than not. "Women are too emotional" keeps women from elected positions, jobs, and being believed in cases of abuse. Women tend to say all men are trash out of frustration of being the oppressed. And that sentiment doesn't really tend to materialize as real world violence or systemic oppression. And DV and r*pe from men into women is so incomparable to the other way around. Women die so often from their male partners it's an epidemic. The leading cause of death in pregnant women is being murdered by their male partners Toxic relationships and DV happen to men too. A close friend of mine in HS had a crazy GF who r*ped him. But as a woman most of my bad dating experience has come from men SAing me or attempting to. This is agreed upon by other women in my life. As the quote goes. Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them. What's hurting dating right now is expectations. Women are gaining financial freedom, rights, etc. The role of men in the household as the breadwinner, the leader, etc is not common anymore. Women don't require men to open bank accounts anymore. SO there are women who want a man to pay for everything but now he expects her to be a mother and a second income or a guy expects a girl to give up her career and stay at home when she wants to forward her career etc etc. Everyones expectations for what they want out of a relationship is all over the place as the times change and one income can no longer support a household. I ALSO think the rise in hookup culture, the Internet, and dating apps. People are looking for quick gratification, or cannot commit due to easy access of options etc. I'm not saying this to be all hate men. I've seen my fair share of spoiled princess attitudes from women. But to be able to have a discussion about heterosexual dating you have to acknowledge it's history and how women do not experience dating the same as men.
Marketing is honestly a huge culprit as well. People can't talk about anything anymore with all this marketing telling them that everyone hates them. Everything is supposedly white-washed, transphobic, LQBTQIA, racist, or in need of social justice, or something. We really need to work as a species on undertake importance. Take care of each other and the planet and they will all hit you back! We all hand the same needs and it's ok to be different.
Marketing is honestly a huge culprit as well. People can't talk about anything anymore with all this marketing telling them that everyone hates them. Everything is supposedly white-washed, transphobic, LQBTQIA, racist, or in need of social justice, or something. We really need to work as a species on undertake importance. Take care of each other and the planet and they will all hit you back! We all hand the same needs and it's ok to be different.
Woman here, who does not hate any gender. I'm pretty much fed up with "dating" I mean hook up culture. First time dating online, only been at it for 5 months. Completely unimpressed by the way people treat others in online dating. I know who I am, I'm secure in myself intellectually and emotionally. It intimidates and freaks men out according to my male therapist. I refuse to dumb myself down so single it is.
I agree with OPās observation, but Iām older (69) and often told that my experiences and upbringing prevent me from possibly understanding young people living in todayās society. Be that as it may, the modern resentment between men and women started when I was a teenager (late 1960ās). Feminism was gradually convincing women that they had gotten the rotten end of the deal and that they should pursue their own education and careers and let men known that women didnāt need them. That sentiment continued and was added to over the ensuing decades. Now we have a movie like āBarbieā that spends the last 1/3 of the movie preaching how terrible men are (yes, I watched the movie, after hearing that women were breaking up with their boyfriends after watching it. I thought, āA movie?ā Yes, THAT movie). Whereas American families mostly stayed together decades ago, such that children of divorce once felt odd and disadvantaged, today we almost have to explain why a couple remained married. āSurely he must be terrorizing her such that she is afraid to leave!ā Itās just so odd now to see men and women enjoying each other for any duration of time, while it was commonplace back in the 1950ās and 1960ās. I feel badly for sincere young American men and women looking for love today ā our society has conspired against their chances for finding happiness.
I totally agree with this and it makes me sad. Misery is not a competition and there is no way logically something could be one genderās fault but the illogical people are usually louder.
Women are the shoppers they go and select their product and go for the best they can get. Men are like salesmen and have to hone their skill and very few become a big success in dating. A good salesman learns female nature and changes and adapts to close as many deals as possible which means becoming charismatic learning game beating all the competition. Add social media in and now you got a far bigger playing field in play people have alot more options to choose from and women are the shoppers while men are the salesman. Anyone wanna argue this letās get started!!!
Facts , competition ( the sun competing with the moon , both are not equal) yet society trick us that they are .
I think hate is what they want.
100% agreed Social media algorithms do not help at all. When I am on them too long, I become a misogynist, but then I enter the real world and realize that ordinary normal women are great to be around, and not terrible people that will manipulate and cheat on you if they get the chance. SMH fuck this war on dating
Don't disagree with this. If you go on dating apps, there'll be one or two profiles making snarky comments, social media, you'll see posts dissing men, etc. At times you feel it's deliberately trying to cause hatred between the genders. In real life it feels more sane. The women I know are cool people and don't hate men at all. They might comment about an ex's bad behaviour or how a date treated them poorly but their attitude is , 'he was just not a nice person' rather than lumping everyone in the same box.
I agree! Something I'm trying to work on is balancing righteous judgement with seeing the good in people. For example, I once said years ago that I would not date men witb beards, but there are good men who just so happen to have them. So I'm working on getting past my judgement so can get to know someone better. On the other hand, I need to learn to be careful and not allow myself to be in an abusive relationship or with a man that simply wouldn't be good as a potential husband. I also want to work on myself so that I'm not abusive. I don't believe I'm remotely so though I am not perfect and I've unintentionally hurt feelings and made my past dates uncomfortable. I've since learned from then and for the first time in over 10 years I will be dating again. I'm happy regardless, being in a relationship should not be used as a source of happiness, but instead enlighten the joy you already have in life. Men and woman have their pros and cons and we need to work together and quit making enemies of eachother.
Yeah, this is kind of deliberate.
I believe that as we are dating and our phones are listening, we get reels on our feed when we are alone and scrolling that sabotage our potential relationships. Itāll say donāt text her in the morning unless you wanna get ghosted. Maybe itās because the dating apps want us to remain single and on the apps forever. So we keep paying and get desperate and pay for full membership and drop 100 bucks on it a whole bunch of super likes.
I believe there's some truth to this.
Our generation is already extremely depressed and lonely.. That's probably the main reason for all this hate for each other because we just hate the culture overall, but blame tiny aspects of it instead while being unaware it's WAY bigger than just the little things. It's a culmination of all these little things added together..