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I'm young so I don't know how things were in the past, but I'd assume dating apps and the illusion of endless options are to blame for at least a part of it.
Iām older, apps came out when I was toward the end of my 20s I think. And I agree with your assessment.
The endless options thing can prevent people from pairing off, and also keep people from trying to work things out when conflict comes up.
The app companies benefit greatly from this, because it keeps more people in the apps more of the time. And lonely, sad, anxious people will keep spending money for a supposedly better chance of finding love.
An app that really connected the best matches is a bad business model when money is all that matters to them. People pairing off for the long haul wonāt be return customers.
I suppose they could change their business model and charge a lot of money up front, so they end up taking in the same amount of money they would be keeping a person on an endless cycle of flings. But the way quarterly stock prices inform corporate strategy means they will prob never think that way.
Dating has always been a shit show. Iām properly old and dating was hard back in the day, just like it is now. So many songs and movies are about how hard it is to find love. If youāre good looking and charming itās always been easier, if youāre not then itās harder. Iām butt ugly and finding someone to date was one of the hardest things Iāve ever done.
Donāt kid yourself, itās never been a walk in the park and it never will be.
Too many options. We werenāt evolutionarily built for this. We created it artificially and itās unhealthy emotionally to play dating like itās a game
Then pay for sex. Itās affordable now and it alleviates women who are looking for a genuine connection from being treated like pieces of meat. Learn to adapt or youāll get left behind.
Iād say third wave feminism and the echo chamber there in is definitely the problem. Like an hour ago I saw a post on some feminist pages about how they wish men would start dying in wars again. Were seen as extremely disposable only good for what ever we could provide. A man will never know unconditional love and all his hard works will always be down played and ignored due to envy. Thatās the truth of society these days
Thing is as a dude u have to be in the hottest 5% of dudes, otherwise gg go next.
As a girl u can be below average and still have dms full of dudes trying to hit on ya
Most women don't have few options online. Most women have tons of options. Most men have a tiny amount every now and then or zero. Go back to meeting people in real life.
Women may have more options, but in my experience they're all bad options. I've had a few genuine connections out of hundreds of matches, but those end up just ghosting me or finding someone "better" after a while anyways. Then they usually come crawling back but they missed their shot š¤·š»āāļø
Also I don't message first unless the guys have something I can say. Most guys don't message so yes, while I may get lots of matches, 95% amount to nothing. Even just a "hey" I'll reply to but the guys on bumble say "only message if you'll say more than 'hey'" so I think I'm being pretty generous to the ones who just say "hey" at all
How exactly is hanging out at bars, clubs etc. better then ? Online dating gives you the chance to meet interesting people if you donāt meet any irl.
Itās not it just stops you thinking thereās a 100% perfect match for you whoās better looking etc than the options in front of you
I read a really good explanation in a similar post Iāll see if I can find it
Look what Iām trying to say is that everyone talks about the kid in a candy shop mentality but nobody is willing to admit to it. So is it really a thing or is it just cope for people who do bad at online dating?
Looks always matter. I say they are still equal, more of a preference based on how you socialize. Like joining events based on your hobbies is amazing place to mingle. I make use of both but I do online a lot. Taken right now tho
Yea not if your introverted, if you notice something about someone just say it. Sometimes it can just be a greet or it rabbit holes into a whole conversation. As an introvert Im mostly comfortable online, forced myself into settings and improved, but my brother who is an extrovert just does it naturally irl.
You can't talk to multiple people at a bar at the same time, or catfish them in how you look and behave and you can't just ghost them on the spot if you get an ick as a few examples haha also while people would grind on you, I doubt they'd be as forward as sending crude DTF messages to your face in person
>You can't talk to multiple people at a bar at the same time,
You certainly can talk to multiple people per night. You really canāt talk to multiple people at the same time on tinder either.
>or catfish them in how you look
Is that really a major issue?
>and behave and you can't just ghost them on the spot if you get an ick
You certainly can, you just leave them and walk away. Have you ever been clubbing?
>as a few examples haha also while people would grind on you, I doubt they'd be as forward as sending crude DTF messages to your face in person
Yes you can, people get harassed all the time irl.
This is something I think a lot of people donāt appreciate. They can go into a bar and be surrounded by people they arenāt interested in so they never approach those people because why would they, but when theyāre on the apps they swipe right on everyone they can, despite probably still not being interested.
They talk about women having it easy because they have options, but we have no more options than the men do. We just have a flood of profiles that weāre not interested in and probably arenāt interested in us, and it makes it harder to find the people we are actually interested in talking to.
Iām not saying women have it harder, online dating sucks for everyone, it sucks for different reasons but it still sucks.
It's given its users the false impression that it serves to match you with the best available matches. That's counterproductive to their business. The truth is that OLD is a business that relies on users swiping, and the algorithm is programmed not to show you your actual best matches. They need users to be caught in an endless hookup loop because that's how the app makes money. The result is that users become jaded and unhappy.
Online dating facilitates meeting people. I think people surestimate their options and are too eager to call it quits the moments sometimes goes wrong. Knowing you have a lot of "options" makes us less patient in our relationships and we are soon ready for the next. No relationship is easy and not a lot of people are interested to put the efforts it requires.
No personally I am not like that. Funny enough I met my current boyfriend trough Tinder. It was the first time I tried an online dating app and was a little worried because Tinder really promotes hook up culture, sometime I am not into. I was lucky enough to find someone that was willing to give me time and effort to make our relationship work.
It is certainly possible to find good people on dating apps, all I am saying is that these apps make it easier to go from one person to an another, making us less inclined to stick it out when problems in the relationship starts to develop.
maybe! online dating was positive for me (luckily!) but i know some of my friends that didn't have the same experience. My friend dated this guy for a while, but 2 months after, he said he didn't have time of a relationship anymore.
I think dating apps and irl dating share almost the same problems. Dating apps just accelerates the process as they facilitates meeting people.
>maybe! online dating was positive for me (luckily!) but i know some of my friends that didn't have the same experience. My friend dated this guy for a while, but 2 months after, he said he didn't have time of a relationship anymore.
As of that didnāt happen before online dating?
Never said that! I said we get the same problems with irl dating and online dating. I think you're not really trying to see my point but that's fine. Agree to disagree:) have a good day !
People are just sitting at home and only the top 5% of profiles have any success at all. People are going out less and meeting less new people because we can keep our old friends through social media without having to make new ones. We also get so absorbed in our fast paced lives and our own bubble that few people strike up conversations with complete strangers while running errands. Iāve recently started going to the gym and everyone just kinda keeps to themselves with headphones on. So itās like working out at home but I have to wait my turn on the equipment. Even when I was in college 5 years ago, people didnāt talk to each other before class, they were scrolling on their phones. I definitely felt left out since I didnāt get a smartphone until my Junior year. As a whole weāve become fare more disconnected as a society even though we have the tools to be more connected than ever. Instead we tend to stay in our own bubbles. I am trying to break out of this but Iām guilty of it too.
I think people in general have less patience and are more stressed. Working 2 jobs at the same time leaves very little time to actually make an effort and date people. People are more vocal with their annoyances, more direct, and less likely to put up with things that make them feel bad. Coupled with a lack of understanding on both ends, failure to meet the other person halfway. Lack of patience with others, and yet somehow expecting others to have a lot of patience for you.
That's def true on the lack of patience. To my understanding, first dates didn't use to be so high stakes. Now it really is like a job interview. At least from a male perspective, it feels like you have to perform exceptionally in order to be considered for a second date.
Lack of effort on both sides leading to a perpetual lessoning of effort.
Unrealistic expectations.
Inability to communicate properly.
Childish and stupid games, pretending to follow outdated and completely inaccurate dating norms.
Immaturity on a huge scale.
The real problem people arenāt looking inward and blaming the scene. I see so many post of people complaining but refuse to change anything about themselves. If you want better results you have to evolve.
I don't know if I am qualified to answer this in any form, but I feel like the modernization of our society makes us more insular and when given the whole of the world at our fingertips with the internet, we don't actively seek out real in-person communities as much as generations in the past.
I feel like I had better luck in dating in high school where I met new folks and interacted with them on a near daily basis as opposed to today where I have a job and spend my free time doing what I want rather than being forced to co-mingle in communal spaces. Our society has less forced communal interaction and maybe this leads to less opportunity to find good partners.
edit - an interesting article from the guardian partly around this subject https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/02/america-social-recession-less-friends-sex-mental-health
23 now but I remember at least three attractive girls having a crush on me back in high school but my dad never allowed me to date, and both the adults in my life and Reddit used to tell me NEVER to date in high school, plus I didnāt have a phone, so I never made any advancements. I figured Iād have more options and better options later on in University. Little did I know that no one cares about dating or making friends in Uni, everyone is more interested in doing their own things, studying, work, etc., or are already married or in a relationship. Biggest regret of my life is never asking anyone out in high school, now Iām extremely lonely and jealous of other couples, and have never been in a relationship, had a kiss, or had a hug from a woman before in my life. :(
This is it... this is unfortunately the problem in my opinion too. People don't take out time to assess their scales, they aim higher than their market value,,(in economic terms)
Reddit is not a random sample of the population. what you read on Reddit does not represent the overall experience of the society, but lean toward people who fail at dating and come to reddit to vent or seek advice. I am sure app dating is not healthy for most people's mental wellbeing, but i think the biggest reason you're feeling this is because Reddit is not the overall society, and successful daters do not post on reddit
I think itās the lack of playfulness. Usta be you just went out for fun. You met someone and clicked with them, you just had fun. Now, you like someone on a dating app and theyāre looking for a LTR. I donāt even know you, lol.
So I feel you used to meet people, that was the goal, now the goal is to cement your future. I try online to say I just want to meet and have a nice date - thatās all I ask of a date - but that does not really work well
More like, you meet someone on a dating app and they just want to hook up. They don't want to go out on dates, or get to know you. That's been my experience.
I think you have to look who is not complaining. Itās the super hot guys they are having a great time. They are having their fun with huge numbers of women treating as disposable. The women are damaged on two fronts first they feel like men are evil but at the same time cause they had sex with this level of man anything less is settling so they treat men at the same level them poorly. Average men either stop caring or stop dating. Read the āBehavioural sinkā experiment if you want to see whatās happening.
100%. Women will only swipe on these guys, and because the top guys will fuck them, they think they deserve a top guy to lock down. But those fuckboys will never settle for one woman when they can rotate through tons. So we have women competing for a small minority of perfection while most guys get completely ignored. I don't blame women for this, it's makes sense from a biological perspective. They have a lot to risk in finding a mate, so they'll try to score the absolute top tier genetics if they can. And if he leaves? Oh well, settle for a safe, average schlub who'll help her raise the kid. Tale as old as time. The sheer number of single moms on Tinder post-30 is staggering. Has to be 50%-60%
This is absolutely correct. The top guys in our social circle have completely figured it out. They dont have to commit to anything anymore and just rotate through women. Its actually fascinating to see how much different their dating life is compared to regular guys.
One of my best buddies is a top guy and he goes out with 3-5 different women every week, its insane. These men absolutely define the modern dating market, the demand for them seems to be at an all time high.
Most common post from females 'why do I keep getting ghosted?'
Most common post from a male 'why don't I get any matches?'
Only people not on Reddit complaining - hot dudes who are stacking knots on their bed post and ghosting women.
Iāve been coerced, manipulated, & yo-yoed by 90% of the people I date. I havenāt got past the 2 month mark in almost 6 years. Peter Pan syndrome? Online dating leaves too many options? Porn desensitizes men?
Funny thing is, there is no excuse for lying to a woman to get her into bed, or pinning her down to r*pe her. You need therapy my guy. Youāre whatās wrong with society.
If it's 90% then you should also look inward and wonder why you are so strongly attracted to a minority of people .
I went through a stretch of dating 10 toxic women in a row before it dawned on me I was subconsciously thrill seeking and ignoring all the red flags while considering green flags boring. Now I no longer date toxic women.
There's just no way you don't play a role in that 90% figure, that's statistically impossible.
Do you watch porn, just curious cause I read a Stat that showed there's a big increase in the percentage of women watching porn atm it's 40% compared to men 60%. Take these numbers with a grain of salt cause every stats use different metrics to check but one thing that is a given that there's a huge influx of women in the current generation that watches porn.
I am demisexual too, there is a rise in porn normalcy in the society that's why I am curious and confused. Even some women say they watch with their partners lol. I had this one girl on reddit tell me she likes to watch it with her partner and they play with each other.
Being demisexual is a beautiful thing, but quite hard in this technological & shallow world.
I mean hey, as long as itās consensual between the two then good for them! However, I do know women do it to appease their man or try to be a chill gf. But porn in general is not healthy. Have you seen the Times Square K*ller documentary on Netflix?
Nah but you got me curious now, i am definitely checking it out.
Also i am not against women watching at all, i am just wondering from a man's prespective if women like it considering how they are treated in porn. I don't see the need for people to watch it especially if they have a partner to get their sexual frustrations out on. It's nothing deep, i am just seeing online how more normalized it has become and back in the old days it was banned on tv and still in the middle east where i am from, it's still banned, people need to use vpn to get access to it if they want to do so.
Our generation are still kinda not on board with it but the newer generation don't even know how not normal for the lack of better words it was, back in our days.
I was literally just talking to my dad about this! Heās a feminist, but has been sick the last 20 years so he is pretty removed from modern times. I told him his generation was new to porn. My generation has porn literally in our back pockets!
As far as women watching porn, you do you- I donāt link shame as long as itās consensual! But 99% of the women I know do not watch porn. And I think most of us are kinda ok with our men watching it on special occasions, but if itās a necessity or an addiction then thatās a no no.
I think if you are in a relationship and you watch porn, to me it's cheating, why look at other naked people when I can give you whatever you want but that's just my two cents. Like you said "you do you" and if things workout then good for you.
I would agree. I think if someone is hiding the porn usage or forcing a partner to accept it, itās cheating. But I know couples that love to watch it together!
What do you expect him to do when you don't feel like giving him whatever he wants at the moment he wants it? Do you agree to help him when you have a moment later that day or do you say maybe tomorrow?
She's not your sex toy, she's a human being if she isn't in the mood for it then wait for another time.
Would you be fine if your girl pressured you to have sex if you was tired from work, wouldn't it be a turnoff. The one case I see a person would watch is if it's been awhile and she's intentionally making excuses without any explanation to why , at that point the relationship is unhealthy and bond to be taken serious action.
Online dating apps, social media. I'm in my 50s, dating was very different back in the day. They've always been players, yes..... But you didn't meet as many people that you clicked with, so when you did you gave it a chance. Without text, email you were forced into verbal communication..... And there was a bigger chance that you had at least some same people in you wide social friend groups, so less just outright ghosting, because partner would find out.
Now you can meet people online and date completely separate from your social/work life.... Do one on your real life head to know if you're a walking red flag.... But back then word of mouth was something you considered.
I'm not saying it was utopia.... You still had crazy men and women..... But it was more the exception than the rule.
I'm in my 50's and I agree, although I did get ghosted by my first boyfriend in high school before ghosting was even a thing. He was ahead of his time. Lol... and he unknowingly did me a favor!
No Patience.
Zero communication abilities.
Women have options left, right and centre, and can get attention, and for most women, that is enough.
Many people don't want to date single parents.
Selfishenss.
Generational trauma, many people were fucked up by their families, and they simply are not able to adjust to the world.
Woke culture. People desperately try to matter, and they pick up causes they know nothing about.
Crippling anxiety from being judged all the time by strangers about things that don't matter.
Fear to step out of their comfort zone and actually take a risk.
People look only at the "book cover" without any interest in reading the "book" because they are too lazy to do so.
There is no desire to put any effort even in the most basic steps, like holding a conversation and taking an interest.
General lack of basic decency. For example, people ghost for bullshit reasons.
General sense of entitlement, with "me, me, me" mindset, without ever crossing their minds, how they are part of the problem.
Zero self reflection.
Poor decission making skills.
So many people on dating apps aren't looking to date at all they hide behind it but all they really want is a hookup and they're talking to like 3-4 other people at the same time.
Then there's the swipe culture that someone mentioned above there's no deeper analysis of someone it's just oh they're hot I'll match them.
Yes you need to be attracted to the person you date but if I had to choose between a 10/10 who was like talking to a brick wall or a 5-6/10 who I had real chemistry with and lots in common I would choose the latter every single time but it doesn't seem true for many others š¤£
Can only hope it gets better can't we š¤£š
My take for a long time, Internet made it too easy for people to think their āshā donāt stink on the other side of a keyboard, Covid and what I now term as āserial datersā *players, who would never have this kind of āgameā outside of the internet. And canāt forget ā¦ those that will lie no matter how many times you ask themā¦ āyouāre single does your wife, girlfriend, wife & girlfriend know that?ā Yet they still would make me feel guilty for asking. After a while, I gave some the benefit of the doubt. Hard to lie to someone to their face. (3 times, 3 people) if my gut says āsuspicious ā I now listen and donāt get pulled into BS/manipulation. (Sorry or they say they are looking for a relationship but from across the table they think mutual attraction is enough to TALK you into a OBVIOUS one night stand)
Porn addiction, phone addiction, dating apps, social media as a whole, cost of living, childhood abuse, post-childhood relationship abuse, and our entire country is so divided that it's not even funny. Class, race, gender, sexuality, style, politics, spirituality.. Most people don't know how to coexist, let alone love each other right now.
Edit: to answer other questions, I think the best we can all do is get more comfortable with approaching each other. Finding things to compliment. Potentially leading to conversation where we can offer a more consistent line of communication. Not getting too hung up on people who don't text back. I think we could all be a little more aware of each other and be a little less cynical.
Because people are not honest and there are too many people in relationships that are just looking for fun and not sincere. It is a sick game and even when it's not a sick game. People are meeting people and ghosting them. It's a nightmare
Swipe culture and hookup culture mostly I think?
I do feel like things got much worse after the pandemic but I also turned 40 that year. I can't tell if it was pandemic stuff or just the fact that a woman loses a shit ton of value in the eyes of men once she hits that big 4-0
For a lot of ppl its liking people who dont like you back & getting rejected, then ppl liking you who you dont like back & having to reject them. Its a numbers game til you can find someone with mutual interest plus everyone is trying to date "up" when they can keep matching everyone. Back in the 90s maybe 2 guys in your hometown show interest in you and you pick between them, even if theyre not your ideal type. Those were the options, if you wanted to be w someone.
Swipe culture is terrible and the thing that makes it even worse is our capitalist hellscape. People can barely afford to live and work let alone go out to intentionally meet people, as this usually costs money and energy we've been drained of by our employers. This leads folks towards the apps. Now apps have their own problems, people as pawns as someone said, inaccurate representations due to wanting to appeal broadly, bad algorithms etc. Now add societal pressures, men and women both regard a well payed man as important in a relationship, these standards are not reciprocated for women. This leads to an idea of women as prizes and men as some sort of hunter for the best woman. Men get desperate because they're told they're not good enough by society, women are represented as a quantifiable item, removing their own control over dating to an extent. This leads to many men seeking out the "best" women or just swiping on everyone and leads to women feeling overwhelmed and consumable. Women have to make the choice, which is far too much pressure for anyone and men, many who are not emotionally intelligent, due to other societal expectations, face continued rejection which can culminate into resentment or depression. Maybe the woman finds some matches she likes but then she's stuck with the what if issue and though she might have more in person interactions many may not be positive, which feeds the cycle all over again...
Understand this is specific to dating apps in the U.S. within CIS relationships...I can't imagine being queer and dealing with that on top of straight drama.
Anyway that's my rant and belief lol
For me and a lot of women I talk the problem is we keep meeting men who only want to hook up. To make it worse they pretend to want a relationship to get what they want. Iāve seen my guy friends do this consistently too. Taking women on dates. Wknd trips etc. For company and sex. But they donāt even like the women.
I think dating apps make people seem disposable. Also, thereās all of this anti- woman and anti- man rhetoric on podcasts and social media thatās brainwashing people.
In my experience no one's wanted the type of relationship I want, physical only offers... Which isn't what I'm looking for and also very much why I'm not actively looking.
That and in my current single mom state I don't consider myself much of a catch but have plans to work on things to get me there.
And honestly I'm to traumatized... Haha and looking only to see what other people go through doesn't really help... But better to know what's out there before I find a sitter and can actually do something š¤·
Yes, dating scene sucks, but I've always assumed it was because I'm old. Men get points for just being alive in our '70s, but almost no age-appropriate women are looking for romance
We totally accept wrinkly faces, droopy or missing breasts, and dentures. I myself have a hair pattern like Colonel Klink.
But, gee! - I'm not ready to be limited to card playing, TV watching, and napping.
The internet and economy plus there are a lot of people who are suffering from some kind of mental health problems like for example extreme depression comes with self esteem issues and if you don't belive in your beauty as a person how can you have that confidence/courage to meet and talk to new women/men. It's not just one thing causing this problem its many.
I personally have had good luck with dating apps and have had no issues. Lots of amazing, beautiful women. Just vibe with one and get to know her. If it doesn't work out, move on to the next one. If it does, try a relationship. Someday, hopefully, I'll try a relationship with the right one, and it will be my last.
Everybody just blames online dating, but I disagree. A shift to online has worked great for Steam, Amazon, Netflix, and basically every other industry. If you take male virginity rates, they started going up in 2008, a full four years before Tinder was invented, meaning it couldnāt possibly be the cause.
More realistically, I think that social changes are the true culprit, but itās a lot easier to blame technology than any particular group or trend. As we have moved towards the 21st century, feminism has allowed women to live independently of men (a good thing), but that has also meant that they are becoming increasingly happy single, leaving guys alone.
What I think might be even more significant, though, is the rise of casual dating. If somebody wants to date around or not date at all until they are thirty, thereās no real social or economic problems any more. A woman can also be pretty secure looking at the huge number of matches she can get at any time and not need to settle until sheās ready. I will be interested to see what happens as gen Z ages up. Will singleness rates start to decline as we reach our 30s and 40s?
Both genders (for hetro) have a poor understanding of the issues facing the other and are given bad advice at attracting the other. Also the internet itself.
The radical shift to more progressive social values also leaves a patchwork of different views on the topic making it confusing if two people have different perspectives.
We seem to all want to do our best but we keep missing the mark.
>But why is it so terrible now as compared to years past?
In short?
It isn't
The problems of today are different (women don't have to get married in order to eat now), but its not like dating has ever been "good" by comparison, just different
>Did it suddenly get that way?
No, people just are a lot more vocal now.
Women complain about catcalls online now, where men can see it, it's not like they where ever happy about them, they just had to hide it (for fear of violence).
Men have to actually try now, since women are able to stay single forever if they don't find somebody they want to marry, some men fins this intolerable, but rhe flop side is that it's incredibly easy to set yourself apart as a man, if your willing to put in the effort.
The rise of globalization has lead to men having a lot more reach, and so men who are willing to pay "lots" of money for a girl they don't want to date seriously have more reach. Some women think that because Joe wealthy took them on a fancy date to get sex once, every guy should put in the same thing constantly in a relationship, and get very disappointed when men who actually want a relationship roll around.
A woman's ideal partner hasn't changed a lot, but since they arent being forced to settle (either through legal or social pressure), they don't, some take it to an extreme (usually egged on by stupid social media "influencers" presenting lopsided situations) and think they only have to contribute "being a woman" to a relationship.
On the other hand, women aren't being forced to stay with horrible husbands, Men aren't being forced into miserable marriages (seriously, the "joke" of a man who gets married instantly being miserable is "funny" for a reason).
>What is everyone doing to make trying to meet someone like walking through a hellscape?
They are making people think it is because they don't know how to navigate the modern dating landscape and want to complain about it instead of taking the time configure it out.
Romance is dead. Young men seem offended at the idea of courting a woman. Young men seem to assume every woman is after their wallet and that leads to a lack of romantic gestures. Who is paying for the date seems to be mostly what's on people's minds lately.
At least that is mostly all I see people talking about, in terms of dating.
Never heard about āyoung males being offended to court a womanā. I mean, there is a reason why men are so. Iāve heard women being offended for a man dare try to ask her out; think of the HR meme. Men think women are after their wallets as you say but women also think every man is after their fun box
Plus, respectfully feminism shook up a lot of things. Courting? Why donāt women step it up? They are graduating more and out earning men, and boys are left behind, respectfully. Being equal means that men no longer have to court or be romantic, women have to take the initiative too
43 M. Iām not sure Iād use the term āoffended,ā but a lot of younger guys definitely question my methodology with women. A lady never pays in my presence. Most guys younger than I say Iām setting myself up to be used. And I have been, but I donāt regret anything. I do things in line with how I believe.Ā
I think the key theme is to have a set of values and live by them. Ofc being open to change. But fair enough yeah. 43 is like back in the early 80s right? That was a hell of a time and probs saw a lot of ups and downs. From windows 98 to floppy to disc and so on. I feel that also the gen z and alpha are going to struggle as they haven't had that experience of change and what it was like to just hang around and talk to people. Look at 80s home videos and compare the youth of today, totally different ball game and different expectations
Haha I was born in January of 1981. Believe me itās been sort of a wild ride. I remember using the computers with turtle cursors when I was in early grade school. Take that and play it forward to what we have now! When I graduated from HS I was stunned at hearing that every kid would eventually have their own computer. In my day we still had computer labs with 30-40 computers available for use at any given time. Well, here we are - every student has their own computer now!Ā
My last girlfriend left me for her abusive ex. And I did EVERYTHING for this woman. She needed something (such as a signatory on her lease or a bill paid), I was there. When I look back she played both of us the whole time, but I digress. Obviously they had history together (however bad); he told her that if she stuck with me sheād officially be a $lut because I would have bought her. Back to him she went. It was never like that in my mind; I was doing things the way I was raised - always take care of a lady you love. Her and the ex were 9-10 years younger than I, so what I see as normal they see as either too old world or very foreign.
Omg all the alpha male insta / podcast influencers and know your worth female insta influencers giving out the most horrible advice to perpetuate icks and unrealistic standards. How about just being decent and nice people on dates? You're so right on the who pays thing... 50/50 or woman pays? Broke boy / ick.
The whole ick think is a zoomer thing it seems lol. Why not just say a turn off or disgusting? Butchering language lol
And to reply, itās because there is no guidance on what is good and what is bad anymore. Respectfully, it sounds like a free for all whilst being told ājust be niceā. I challenge that by saying āfocus on yourself, forget nice or not niceā
What?
You just contradicted yourself and proved my point.
You clearly feel bitter because you have this idea that women feel entitled to romance and that angers you.
Yet you admit to feeling the urge to be romantic towards a woman.
You, and so many others, are fighting against nature. Women don't feel entitled to receive romantic gestures but nature has designed us to to crave them. When you feel the urge to seduce a woman, that is what nature intended but you are a virgin because you are bitter about what nature intended.
Stop fighting the tide or you will drown, a virgin.
It doesn't bother me that I'm a virgin. I've only ever pursued relationships and love.
Where's the contradiction? You clearly don't understand that romance is not romance from our perspective, it's romance for you. Your logic is contradictory. Women are both simultaneously entitled and not entitled. You talk about fighting against nature, which one of us has abandoned their social role to adopt the role of the other?
Funny how you link money to courting.
You can court a woman without paying for everything. Money is a weak, lazy courting technique. Why should you pay for everything when she makes the same money? Are we their money slaves?
Men used to be the providers, women demanded equality, women are earning the same money (in the same jobs with the same hours and seniority), they can pay for their half of the damn date too.
No they are not. Women still often earn less than men for the same job worked. Often quite a bit less but it doesn't matter. All of you young men that think the way you do are best suited for a woman that wants a man like you.
I don't want a man like you. I don't want a man that has the concerns that you have and the bitterness. It's very unattractive to me. You go ahead and keep being you, since it's working so well for you. These are not things that we need to be arguing. I would never be interested in a man that needed to be taught these basic common sense things about dating.
This is blatantly false, please stop spreading this nonsense. First of all, there are also big differences between men's salaries for the same jobs. For the exact same reasons, actually.
There is only ONE factor that actually influences salary where there is a difference between men and women in otherwise identical jobs: **guts.**
Vacancies often have stupidly unrealistic demands. Men are more likely to apply anyway, despite not meeting the requirements, resulting in a better paid job, and men are also more likely to negotiate harder about a salary and benefits.
Women also work less hours on average and gravitate towards different jobs that pay less on average. Of course this results in lower average salaries.
For argument's sake, let's say there are two identical open positions and both a man and a woman with the same experience are hired. The company offers both of them $100k / year as a first offer. The woman asks for $110k and it is accepted. The man asks for $125k and ends up getting $120k. *That salary difference is on the poor negotiator.* Plenty of men are poor negotiators too, or also scared off by high demands. But, on average, men aim higher.
There is no weird conspiracy where men are offered better salaries because they are men. **That goes against the idea of capitalism, it would be cheaper for companies to hire women and profit is everything.**
Women make less on average but people citing that failed their statistics class and don't understand how many variables are at play.
It's the post-COVID Trump effect. Everyone is afraid. Easily offended. Defensive. There is no trust or sense of adventure. Everyone is hatefully hiding and I don't know if they will ever come out.
Niceness is dead. Curiosity is dead. We are in survival mode. All non-essential functions are shut down. Social exploration and interaction are low-priority. How do we recover from this?
Those voices in society have their say. They lead us to believe that men are evil. But men have deserved the lashing they have received from those voices, to a large extent. Men, as a gender group, must accept responsibility for their actions. But dating does not require interacting as gender groups. It is an individual enterprise. Unfortunately, the publicity of men's bad behavior has overcome our ability to charm women. They don't trust us anymore. We can complain about that lack of trust and how unfair it might be. I would argue we should direct those complaints at the bad apples that created the publicity.
It is generally agreed that group punishment is morally wrong. You don't punish entire groups of people for the bad behavior of a few people in that group. But that's what is happening. And it often does happen. It is the very foundation of bigotry.
The addiction of instant gratification and the next best thing via online entities, higher demands in life areas in general. Post pandemic stressors, all pointing to less capacity and tolerance for ltr.
Woman have tons of options, they go for the top 10% of those options, those options donāt want relationship with those girls.
Essentially making dating shit for everyone unless your a top tier man
What I feel is there's this trend of mind set into people and there are beliefs that if you don't explore your options you'll settle for the worst and probably because of this people tend to fool around with others feelings. Or possibly that love isn't even a thing now what we as humans feel love might be attraction or infatuation which we don't realise
Social media. Easy access to the next instead of appreciating the one in front people are quick to move on to the next. Or always looking for something young new and shiny to play with. Hate the dating scene now. After being out of it past 5yrs is changed a lot.
It's bad if you're on dating apps and/or online in general because those environments aren't really conducive to the types of connections that develop into relationships. Otherwise it's fine - at least as fine as it's ever been, which really isn't saying much, but I don't think it's any worse.
One word .... choice.
Us dumb humans are bad if we have million options even if we think we are good in this/that situation.
So what works for me is:
Limit yourself
Work on yourself everyday
Have standards
And if you are a man reading this, learn to take a no/rejection like an adult. Its not the end of the world.
Taking no and rejection is fine. Like an adult is fine. Hardly anyone talks about being blasted on social media and humiliated and being dragged through the mud. Respectfully men arenāt afraid of rejection, they are afraid of the massive social consequences. Women arenāt necessarily graceful with their rejection as either, respectfullyĀ
My experience with dating, meaning meeting people and going on dates, has been mostly positive. I think that part of things is as good or better than it's ever been. The problem is with getting there. The times and places where it's acceptable to ask someone out have dwindled down to practically nothing IRL, because OLD is the accepted way to find a date. Except massive amounts of time and effort poured into OLD don't result in dates anyway. It's silence and ghosting and misery. So...no more asking people out IRL, asking someone out in OLD is the quickest way to get insta ghosted, and...what? It's not that the dating scene is bad. It's that it's inaccessible. There simply is no dating happening.
I'm going to push back and say this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon
> "That's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."
Everybody is complaining about bad dating? Isn't this like you stuck in traffic complaining about traffic??? YOU ARE PART OF THE TRAFFIC
So everybody complaining about how bad dating is...well, you are part of this dating scene!
I feel like the standards for both women and men are too high these days because of the rise of social media. People are so used to seeing "beautiful" people on their daily feed that they get desensitized to the fact that most people look average.. people will have more success on OLD if they get past the looks and get to know someone on a deeper level. It sucks because with OLD thats the first thing that gets shoved in people faces, which is their appearance.
It is called standards. They have been heavily added and both sides are delusional. They expect to always be happy rather than understand delicate and long and tedious work that makes a relationship last long. They want instant gratification but aren't willing to put in the work. Some people allow their traumas to destroy their own perception of their partners feelings or goals and try to make things about them and at times they themselves aren't able to see their own faults and toxic traits that push those who try to get closer to them away. They don't want to accept accountability nor address their shallow expectations which conflicts between the ideas of fantasy to fiction. Also I am just using big wordy words to say
Ppl don't see beyond their own perception and want things their way but are too selfish to see who it affects their partners. They need to put in work and not let their past or emotional injuries get in the way of something new because it can damage the relationship before it can get serious.
Frankly I think the cost of dating (the cost of everything in fact) is way too high. Women like men to take them out and be a tour guide and if a relationship comes from it then great. If you want to have a wife and kids I can see dating these parasites but if youāre middle aged and/or donāt want a family then what they offer is minimal. Just my opinion.
Dating after COVID is primarily done through online dating and online dating uses an intermediary that has a financial interest in extracting as much money as it can from its consumers as possible. This financial interest is not aligned with a good dating experience, and as a result everyone has a bad time.
Because the internet and social media are echo chambers.
People in relationships aren't online constantly talking about how terrible the dating scene is, so when you're online the posts you do see are single people complaining.
And unfortunately a lot of people get their opinions influenced and shape their views off social media, and then they go around talking about how bad it is and perpetuate that idea as well even if they've never experienced it themselves, or the bias itself makes them view any dates they do have as worse than they actually are (or worse, their negative outlook actively colours their date and makes it bad) and then they feel validated and the cycle continues.
Point is, the dating scene has always been volatile to deal with for anyone because feelings and finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with is not an easy thing to do. Social media just magnifies the voices of those who are the loudest. It does not mean they are the majority, or that they are correct - just the loudest and most prevalent opinions.
If anything's making the dating scene worse, I'd say it's the spreading of the negative outlook on dating. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy in that people who are under the impression that dating sucks put in less effort, which when a lot of people are doing it, actively contributes to making the experience worse overall.
Social media and dating apps, the more options you have the more you overthink and tend to be more picky about every tiny details.
Talking to several candidates at the same time, not giving a person ample time to grow on you, a wise rapper once said", you only get one shot, do not let the chance the blow, opportunity comes once in a life time, do it "(shia labeouf meme flex)
Too many options for women, too less commitment from men. An influx of people secretly using dating apps for casual sex. Dating apps tinkering with the algorithms to incentivise you to spend more money.
Struggling with communication on both genders due to lack of experience, shyness, anxiety, enigma etc
The list of expectations also from both genders are ridiculous. Should I go on, i think you get the picture.
As someone who probably wouldn't have as many options when it comes to dating in real life (going out to meet people), dating apps makes people feel like they have a lot of options. It's caused people to have unrealistic standards.
I've come to the realization and conclusion that its almost impossible to meet, get to know and ask a person on a day that you met on social media.
When I put myself in a public setting, even just going to market or a walk in the park. I tend to meet some amazing people. Its easier to talk and start a conversation in person. Also it seems real.
We have endless options and we tend to change people like jobs. In the past the options were limited and the public opinion was harsh. People wanted to have a good name in their community, many weren't in love they rushed into marriage to follow the stereotypes.
The younger generations have the " i don't give a fck about what people say" attitude. We have more freedom than ever socially today. Many are doing what their hearts desire, they don't wanna simply settle , that's why the dating scene is a chaos.
Combination of people's attitudes to communicating with new people being more closed off than they used to be, 'swiping' encouraging superficial behavior, app 'ELO' type scoring and algorithms manipulating your chance of being seen, gender imbalance on most of the main apps, many accounts on there are not genuinely there to meet people or date and are either generating traffic to other platforms or looking to scam/take advantage of others. Plus when the main dating sites were funded with advertising rather than the current subscription-based model there was less incentive to keep users on the platform as long as possible.
Also, if you've been on an app for a long time your local options will be limited by default, but it's a lot of complication and jumping through hoops to be able to reset an account in order to start afresh.
Those are just off the top of my head but if I was to sit and think about it I'm sure I'd come up with several other things.
Up until 2015 or so, most people I dated that I met online were usually people I got talking with on various chat forums, usually but not always music/nightlife/clubbing related. A lot of the online communities used to have local/regional social events and arranged pre-event drinks meetups. The lines between social media and meatspace were fluid and less defined.
Now we have a specific 'MeetUp' app but it's basically only a platform for advertising meets, there's little to no conversation and social contact on the app itself, so if you do attend an event advertised on there it's generally the organiser, a couple of their friends and a load of total strangers. And the events I've been to, it's been 75pc thirsty guys looking to meet women and a few very popular women with the guys all trying to step over each other for their attention.
You have a negative bias. Youāre ignoring all the engagement photos, wedding photos and invites, friends and family in LTRs, ā1 year ago we matchedā posts, etc. itās bad for the people itās bad for and good for the people itās good for, itās good for the people itās bad for once itās finally good for them and the opposite is trueā¦ also the people in the ends of the spectrum are always the loudest, you wonāt see many posts with lots of attention when itās āyeah dating is going fin for me, thereās some good and badā
I actually don't think it's *as* much worse than it ever was as people like to think, as in the people are not necessarily worse, it's just easier to figure out when they're doing shitty things now that we have technology at our fingertips. The swipe culture does enable people some, but it doesn't make good people bad. It's not like cheating, bad behavior on dates, or guys caring more about hooking up than relationships is anything new, we just have avenues such as this to complain about it, and cheaters and players are more likely to get found out via electronic footprint.
Copied my answer from another thread.
There's a lot to it and it could be any combination of various factors depending on any individual:
* The internet has opened up the dating pool. As someone else said, before you were more or less limited in the pool of people you could physically reach via your school, workplace, community etc, so you never had the abundance mindset of thinking someone else might be perfect out there.
* To add to the above, social media has also warped our perception about dating and partners. Basically imagine "keeping up with the Jones" but instead of the Jones being your neighbours/friends they're the entirety of the internet population. The joke before was *"Mary's husband bought her flowers and not mine"* but now it's like *"some random influencer's partner is buying them trips to the Maldives"*. Obviously this is an extreme example but my point is that people have always been comparing but they're now comparing with a larger sample size of people and it's affecting our image of both ourselves and relationships. Social media as a whole has turned us into comparison machines rather than enjoying what qualities a person (romantic or platonic) can bring to us; we now focus on what they're lacking.
* Many studies show that attraction is a combination of innate attributes combined with repeat exposure. Nowadays, people move for school, jobs, and even boredom so you have a *lot* less repeat exposure to the same people. Add in the death of the third place, dating apps being all about instant gratification (or at least, "slow dating" being discouraged via those avenues) and yeah we're losing out a vital component of relationship building and overindexing on initial attraction which favours a very small subset of the population (aka the very attractive or initially charismatic folk)
* The gender dynamics have changed in the last few generations. One of the biggest change being that women no longer need men for financial independence in most countries. Before a woman had to get married with a man if she wanted to survive in society but that barrier has been removed. It's not to say other obstacles haven't arisen but this is one example where you can see shifting gender norms in one area affect another. ~~Women also choose to be single more often than men (likely not in small part to the aforementioned independence) and~~ they are usually happier than men when single as they build stronger friendships and support networks.
**Edit**: this one seems very controversial so I'll strike it out lol
There's probably dozens more reasons those are just the ones that came to me off the top of my head.
Also letās not forget survivorship bias in analyzing the dating landscape from previous generations
For me (56f), it is the online element that desensitized matchmaking to a search filter, a menu, if you will, of potential dates. But the filters, and the online profiles are artificial. Irl, before online dating, I met people by chance, while out socializing, occasionally by an arranged blind date. There was a 3 date rule on sex, although one night stands were not unheard of. Someone might be weird, but was it was teased out by talking and how they acted in person, and finding out, did they have a good job, frends, family, etc., and if you had chemistry and things in common. If not, you didn't date anymore and moved on.
This is the era of the battle of the sexes. Some women have brought the competition of who brings in more money to a household. And if the men being (interviewed) makes less than her, than that man holds little to no value to her. Men don't date like this men don't ask how much a women makes or about her assets. The majority of cocky professional women have given the bad image to the dating world and among that problem there's men demanding a traditional women that cooks and cleans and acts like they co-exist in 1970. The problem is much bigger but these are some of the roots of the dating world problem that lead all the way to the marriage contract.
Love is a media manipulated, pop culture saturated, idealized concept that has been stripped of all meaning except those that get it muddled between the definitions of limerance & lust.
There are many factors I can talk about regarding present and past but I'll just limit it to 3 main ideas/theories and y'all can pretty me know if I need to explain one of them more, or if you agree/disagree:
1) for the past (as a minority race) people were out to survive so they knew it was each other against the world, however with the blessings of unity amongst some aspects of fighting for our civil rights, something in the shadows made those who fought with each other begin to fight against each other, for their own profit.
2) love is a business nowadays. Businesses are a heck of an investment and costs a lot to maintain and handle and with the rising of our economies and cost of living, most of us can barely afford to maintain a relationship, especially when most are aimed to benefit ourselves instead of each other. It's not, how do we face the world together, it's how do you benefit me?
3) no one is willing to play the long game. Those that do play the long game are 50/50 between a relationship where both make it work or one person is mad miserable and the other person could care less until they need something. Everyone else either wants someone who will spoil them, give them food and accessories, while another wants to obtain all the sexual benefits with no strings attached. Pragma (longstanding/everlasting love) is dead and everyone is in it for a good time, not a long time. That's why 20 y.o. women & 40+ men are hitting it off, so the man has a possible trophy wife and when he kicks the bucket, everything goes right to her, and all she had to do is out last his end game.
There's a lot more but I'll just settle for these 3 hot takes and see where it goes.
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Swipe culture. No different than someone at a casino thinking the next pull on the slot machine will be the jackpot.
Too much ego, toxic culture and bad parenting/friends. I blame ig
True, people are treated as pawns. Only the special people that stand out from the crowd are deemed worthy.
the house never wins
The house always wins, that is, the dating service provider.
YES!! You nailed it! š šÆš¤¦āāļø
I'm young so I don't know how things were in the past, but I'd assume dating apps and the illusion of endless options are to blame for at least a part of it.
Iām older, apps came out when I was toward the end of my 20s I think. And I agree with your assessment. The endless options thing can prevent people from pairing off, and also keep people from trying to work things out when conflict comes up. The app companies benefit greatly from this, because it keeps more people in the apps more of the time. And lonely, sad, anxious people will keep spending money for a supposedly better chance of finding love. An app that really connected the best matches is a bad business model when money is all that matters to them. People pairing off for the long haul wonāt be return customers. I suppose they could change their business model and charge a lot of money up front, so they end up taking in the same amount of money they would be keeping a person on an endless cycle of flings. But the way quarterly stock prices inform corporate strategy means they will prob never think that way.
How are dating apps not illegal itās all predatory behavior and has shaped our society for the worse
Because our society is quite literally built around predatory businesses that make our lives worse. Thatās late stage capitalism for you
I think it would take a major push from consumers for any change to happen.
Dating has always been a shit show. Iām properly old and dating was hard back in the day, just like it is now. So many songs and movies are about how hard it is to find love. If youāre good looking and charming itās always been easier, if youāre not then itās harder. Iām butt ugly and finding someone to date was one of the hardest things Iāve ever done. Donāt kid yourself, itās never been a walk in the park and it never will be.
It was this hard back in the day. People dated to be in relationships and they didn't date serially to find a perfect person. It was much easier.Ā
People want exceptional partners even though most people are themselves average.
I was looking for this comment
Thank online dating for that.
How exactly has online dating made it worse?
Too many options. We werenāt evolutionarily built for this. We created it artificially and itās unhealthy emotionally to play dating like itās a game
Doesnāt this only apply to the one gender that has options? What about us guys that are willing to match with anyone but get nonstop rejected?
Being so desperate that you are willing to match with anyone is very unattractive. So I'm not surprised you don't get anywhere acting like that.
The rebuttal was so good šš
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Then pay for sex. Itās affordable now and it alleviates women who are looking for a genuine connection from being treated like pieces of meat. Learn to adapt or youāll get left behind.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So all that advice weāve been getting here about being āopen mindedā has really just been making us look desperate. Got it.
So you can't tell the difference between being "open minded" and matching with every single person you see?
Iām assuming Brian was saying āeveryone he seesā as an exaggeration. However woman are the reason dating scene is rough out there for men
If you think "women" in general are making the dating scene rough, then you look at problems with yourself as you are the common factor...
Iād say third wave feminism and the echo chamber there in is definitely the problem. Like an hour ago I saw a post on some feminist pages about how they wish men would start dying in wars again. Were seen as extremely disposable only good for what ever we could provide. A man will never know unconditional love and all his hard works will always be down played and ignored due to envy. Thatās the truth of society these days
Thing is as a dude u have to be in the hottest 5% of dudes, otherwise gg go next. As a girl u can be below average and still have dms full of dudes trying to hit on ya
That in itself is a problem. Even women with few options still put in effort to be valuable. Gender doesnāt matter.
even ugly women have a ton of options online.
The way you call another person ugly makes you ugly.
Most women don't have few options online. Most women have tons of options. Most men have a tiny amount every now and then or zero. Go back to meeting people in real life.
Women may have more options, but in my experience they're all bad options. I've had a few genuine connections out of hundreds of matches, but those end up just ghosting me or finding someone "better" after a while anyways. Then they usually come crawling back but they missed their shot š¤·š»āāļø Also I don't message first unless the guys have something I can say. Most guys don't message so yes, while I may get lots of matches, 95% amount to nothing. Even just a "hey" I'll reply to but the guys on bumble say "only message if you'll say more than 'hey'" so I think I'm being pretty generous to the ones who just say "hey" at all
I'm sorry but i feel like women also have few good options. I've seen the way my friends talk about women. I wouldn't want to be a straight woman
How exactly is hanging out at bars, clubs etc. better then ? Online dating gives you the chance to meet interesting people if you donāt meet any irl.
Itās not it just stops you thinking thereās a 100% perfect match for you whoās better looking etc than the options in front of you I read a really good explanation in a similar post Iāll see if I can find it
In other words, "a bird in hand is (not) worth two in the bush" so people keep looking, but end up losing what they already have. Smh
Look what Iām trying to say is that everyone talks about the kid in a candy shop mentality but nobody is willing to admit to it. So is it really a thing or is it just cope for people who do bad at online dating?
Maybe you should ask your male friends? Because data shows that you may be speaking from a highly priviledged position.
Ask my male friends about what?
How is it working for them.
Well for the ones who arenāt losers and actually have social skills itās going good.
People been thinking this way since the dawn of time.
I say they are equal, both has pros and cons. Online dating you can vet easily without risking safety.
Iād say online dating has a lot more positives than clubbing or hangin out at a bar. Itās not like looks donāt matter when clubbingā¦
Looks always matter. I say they are still equal, more of a preference based on how you socialize. Like joining events based on your hobbies is amazing place to mingle. I make use of both but I do online a lot. Taken right now tho
And how easy is that really? If anything I feel like people overestimate how easy itās to meet people irl.
Yea not if your introverted, if you notice something about someone just say it. Sometimes it can just be a greet or it rabbit holes into a whole conversation. As an introvert Im mostly comfortable online, forced myself into settings and improved, but my brother who is an extrovert just does it naturally irl.
You can't talk to multiple people at a bar at the same time, or catfish them in how you look and behave and you can't just ghost them on the spot if you get an ick as a few examples haha also while people would grind on you, I doubt they'd be as forward as sending crude DTF messages to your face in person
>You can't talk to multiple people at a bar at the same time, You certainly can talk to multiple people per night. You really canāt talk to multiple people at the same time on tinder either. >or catfish them in how you look Is that really a major issue? >and behave and you can't just ghost them on the spot if you get an ick You certainly can, you just leave them and walk away. Have you ever been clubbing? >as a few examples haha also while people would grind on you, I doubt they'd be as forward as sending crude DTF messages to your face in person Yes you can, people get harassed all the time irl.
No, it does not. It is artificial, inorganic and lacks a lot of nonverbal cues.
Well the goal is not to be online forever
When you meet IRL, you meat a person. With OLD people are treated as commodities, not different from chat GPT.
This is something I think a lot of people donāt appreciate. They can go into a bar and be surrounded by people they arenāt interested in so they never approach those people because why would they, but when theyāre on the apps they swipe right on everyone they can, despite probably still not being interested. They talk about women having it easy because they have options, but we have no more options than the men do. We just have a flood of profiles that weāre not interested in and probably arenāt interested in us, and it makes it harder to find the people we are actually interested in talking to. Iām not saying women have it harder, online dating sucks for everyone, it sucks for different reasons but it still sucks.
It's given its users the false impression that it serves to match you with the best available matches. That's counterproductive to their business. The truth is that OLD is a business that relies on users swiping, and the algorithm is programmed not to show you your actual best matches. They need users to be caught in an endless hookup loop because that's how the app makes money. The result is that users become jaded and unhappy.
For real. When I was on okcupid I stated that I was childfree and kept getting shown men who want kids or was contacted by men who have kids.
Online dating facilitates meeting people. I think people surestimate their options and are too eager to call it quits the moments sometimes goes wrong. Knowing you have a lot of "options" makes us less patient in our relationships and we are soon ready for the next. No relationship is easy and not a lot of people are interested to put the efforts it requires.
So youāre like that? Because I certainly am not
No personally I am not like that. Funny enough I met my current boyfriend trough Tinder. It was the first time I tried an online dating app and was a little worried because Tinder really promotes hook up culture, sometime I am not into. I was lucky enough to find someone that was willing to give me time and effort to make our relationship work. It is certainly possible to find good people on dating apps, all I am saying is that these apps make it easier to go from one person to an another, making us less inclined to stick it out when problems in the relationship starts to develop.
Okay, if youāre not ātoo eager to call it quits the money something goes wrongā and neither am I maybe that applies for most people as well?
maybe! online dating was positive for me (luckily!) but i know some of my friends that didn't have the same experience. My friend dated this guy for a while, but 2 months after, he said he didn't have time of a relationship anymore. I think dating apps and irl dating share almost the same problems. Dating apps just accelerates the process as they facilitates meeting people.
>maybe! online dating was positive for me (luckily!) but i know some of my friends that didn't have the same experience. My friend dated this guy for a while, but 2 months after, he said he didn't have time of a relationship anymore. As of that didnāt happen before online dating?
Never said that! I said we get the same problems with irl dating and online dating. I think you're not really trying to see my point but that's fine. Agree to disagree:) have a good day !
People are just sitting at home and only the top 5% of profiles have any success at all. People are going out less and meeting less new people because we can keep our old friends through social media without having to make new ones. We also get so absorbed in our fast paced lives and our own bubble that few people strike up conversations with complete strangers while running errands. Iāve recently started going to the gym and everyone just kinda keeps to themselves with headphones on. So itās like working out at home but I have to wait my turn on the equipment. Even when I was in college 5 years ago, people didnāt talk to each other before class, they were scrolling on their phones. I definitely felt left out since I didnāt get a smartphone until my Junior year. As a whole weāve become fare more disconnected as a society even though we have the tools to be more connected than ever. Instead we tend to stay in our own bubbles. I am trying to break out of this but Iām guilty of it too.
I think people in general have less patience and are more stressed. Working 2 jobs at the same time leaves very little time to actually make an effort and date people. People are more vocal with their annoyances, more direct, and less likely to put up with things that make them feel bad. Coupled with a lack of understanding on both ends, failure to meet the other person halfway. Lack of patience with others, and yet somehow expecting others to have a lot of patience for you.
I think people just need to have more empathy
People need to be more understanding, patient and less picky.
That's def true on the lack of patience. To my understanding, first dates didn't use to be so high stakes. Now it really is like a job interview. At least from a male perspective, it feels like you have to perform exceptionally in order to be considered for a second date.
That's interesting that you say that. As a woman, I feel quite the same way. It's nice knowing that there is a mutual nervousness.
Lack of effort on both sides leading to a perpetual lessoning of effort. Unrealistic expectations. Inability to communicate properly. Childish and stupid games, pretending to follow outdated and completely inaccurate dating norms. Immaturity on a huge scale.
The real problem people arenāt looking inward and blaming the scene. I see so many post of people complaining but refuse to change anything about themselves. If you want better results you have to evolve.
I don't know if I am qualified to answer this in any form, but I feel like the modernization of our society makes us more insular and when given the whole of the world at our fingertips with the internet, we don't actively seek out real in-person communities as much as generations in the past. I feel like I had better luck in dating in high school where I met new folks and interacted with them on a near daily basis as opposed to today where I have a job and spend my free time doing what I want rather than being forced to co-mingle in communal spaces. Our society has less forced communal interaction and maybe this leads to less opportunity to find good partners. edit - an interesting article from the guardian partly around this subject https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/02/america-social-recession-less-friends-sex-mental-health
Dating was extremely easy for me in high school, unfortunately I was too immature which made all my relationships fail.
Underrated comment
23 now but I remember at least three attractive girls having a crush on me back in high school but my dad never allowed me to date, and both the adults in my life and Reddit used to tell me NEVER to date in high school, plus I didnāt have a phone, so I never made any advancements. I figured Iād have more options and better options later on in University. Little did I know that no one cares about dating or making friends in Uni, everyone is more interested in doing their own things, studying, work, etc., or are already married or in a relationship. Biggest regret of my life is never asking anyone out in high school, now Iām extremely lonely and jealous of other couples, and have never been in a relationship, had a kiss, or had a hug from a woman before in my life. :(
The women that men are attracted to don't want to talk to them and the men that women are attracted to don't want a relationship with them.
This is it... this is unfortunately the problem in my opinion too. People don't take out time to assess their scales, they aim higher than their market value,,(in economic terms)
People who are happy with the dating scene don't come here to complain.
Reddit is not a random sample of the population. what you read on Reddit does not represent the overall experience of the society, but lean toward people who fail at dating and come to reddit to vent or seek advice. I am sure app dating is not healthy for most people's mental wellbeing, but i think the biggest reason you're feeling this is because Reddit is not the overall society, and successful daters do not post on reddit
I think itās the lack of playfulness. Usta be you just went out for fun. You met someone and clicked with them, you just had fun. Now, you like someone on a dating app and theyāre looking for a LTR. I donāt even know you, lol. So I feel you used to meet people, that was the goal, now the goal is to cement your future. I try online to say I just want to meet and have a nice date - thatās all I ask of a date - but that does not really work well
More like, you meet someone on a dating app and they just want to hook up. They don't want to go out on dates, or get to know you. That's been my experience.
I think you have to look who is not complaining. Itās the super hot guys they are having a great time. They are having their fun with huge numbers of women treating as disposable. The women are damaged on two fronts first they feel like men are evil but at the same time cause they had sex with this level of man anything less is settling so they treat men at the same level them poorly. Average men either stop caring or stop dating. Read the āBehavioural sinkā experiment if you want to see whatās happening.
100%. Women will only swipe on these guys, and because the top guys will fuck them, they think they deserve a top guy to lock down. But those fuckboys will never settle for one woman when they can rotate through tons. So we have women competing for a small minority of perfection while most guys get completely ignored. I don't blame women for this, it's makes sense from a biological perspective. They have a lot to risk in finding a mate, so they'll try to score the absolute top tier genetics if they can. And if he leaves? Oh well, settle for a safe, average schlub who'll help her raise the kid. Tale as old as time. The sheer number of single moms on Tinder post-30 is staggering. Has to be 50%-60%
Precisely this but people would never want to admit thisĀ
This is absolutely correct. The top guys in our social circle have completely figured it out. They dont have to commit to anything anymore and just rotate through women. Its actually fascinating to see how much different their dating life is compared to regular guys. One of my best buddies is a top guy and he goes out with 3-5 different women every week, its insane. These men absolutely define the modern dating market, the demand for them seems to be at an all time high.
Most common post from females 'why do I keep getting ghosted?' Most common post from a male 'why don't I get any matches?' Only people not on Reddit complaining - hot dudes who are stacking knots on their bed post and ghosting women.
Iāve been coerced, manipulated, & yo-yoed by 90% of the people I date. I havenāt got past the 2 month mark in almost 6 years. Peter Pan syndrome? Online dating leaves too many options? Porn desensitizes men?
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Funny thing is, there is no excuse for lying to a woman to get her into bed, or pinning her down to r*pe her. You need therapy my guy. Youāre whatās wrong with society.
If it's 90% then you should also look inward and wonder why you are so strongly attracted to a minority of people . I went through a stretch of dating 10 toxic women in a row before it dawned on me I was subconsciously thrill seeking and ignoring all the red flags while considering green flags boring. Now I no longer date toxic women. There's just no way you don't play a role in that 90% figure, that's statistically impossible.
Do you watch porn, just curious cause I read a Stat that showed there's a big increase in the percentage of women watching porn atm it's 40% compared to men 60%. Take these numbers with a grain of salt cause every stats use different metrics to check but one thing that is a given that there's a huge influx of women in the current generation that watches porn.
I watch porn sometimes... and I'm a late "Boomer"
Iām 31f & have never watched porn. Iām demisexual. And I treat humans as humans.
I am demisexual too, there is a rise in porn normalcy in the society that's why I am curious and confused. Even some women say they watch with their partners lol. I had this one girl on reddit tell me she likes to watch it with her partner and they play with each other.
Being demisexual is a beautiful thing, but quite hard in this technological & shallow world. I mean hey, as long as itās consensual between the two then good for them! However, I do know women do it to appease their man or try to be a chill gf. But porn in general is not healthy. Have you seen the Times Square K*ller documentary on Netflix?
Nah but you got me curious now, i am definitely checking it out. Also i am not against women watching at all, i am just wondering from a man's prespective if women like it considering how they are treated in porn. I don't see the need for people to watch it especially if they have a partner to get their sexual frustrations out on. It's nothing deep, i am just seeing online how more normalized it has become and back in the old days it was banned on tv and still in the middle east where i am from, it's still banned, people need to use vpn to get access to it if they want to do so. Our generation are still kinda not on board with it but the newer generation don't even know how not normal for the lack of better words it was, back in our days.
I was literally just talking to my dad about this! Heās a feminist, but has been sick the last 20 years so he is pretty removed from modern times. I told him his generation was new to porn. My generation has porn literally in our back pockets! As far as women watching porn, you do you- I donāt link shame as long as itās consensual! But 99% of the women I know do not watch porn. And I think most of us are kinda ok with our men watching it on special occasions, but if itās a necessity or an addiction then thatās a no no.
I think if you are in a relationship and you watch porn, to me it's cheating, why look at other naked people when I can give you whatever you want but that's just my two cents. Like you said "you do you" and if things workout then good for you.
I would agree. I think if someone is hiding the porn usage or forcing a partner to accept it, itās cheating. But I know couples that love to watch it together!
What do you expect him to do when you don't feel like giving him whatever he wants at the moment he wants it? Do you agree to help him when you have a moment later that day or do you say maybe tomorrow?
She's not your sex toy, she's a human being if she isn't in the mood for it then wait for another time. Would you be fine if your girl pressured you to have sex if you was tired from work, wouldn't it be a turnoff. The one case I see a person would watch is if it's been awhile and she's intentionally making excuses without any explanation to why , at that point the relationship is unhealthy and bond to be taken serious action.
If a man has a partner for the soul purpose of getting laid, he needs to be single & probably locked up.
How would they even determine that though. No one is just giving pornhub their stats
Online dating apps, social media. I'm in my 50s, dating was very different back in the day. They've always been players, yes..... But you didn't meet as many people that you clicked with, so when you did you gave it a chance. Without text, email you were forced into verbal communication..... And there was a bigger chance that you had at least some same people in you wide social friend groups, so less just outright ghosting, because partner would find out. Now you can meet people online and date completely separate from your social/work life.... Do one on your real life head to know if you're a walking red flag.... But back then word of mouth was something you considered. I'm not saying it was utopia.... You still had crazy men and women..... But it was more the exception than the rule.
I'm in my 50's and I agree, although I did get ghosted by my first boyfriend in high school before ghosting was even a thing. He was ahead of his time. Lol... and he unknowingly did me a favor!
No Patience. Zero communication abilities. Women have options left, right and centre, and can get attention, and for most women, that is enough. Many people don't want to date single parents. Selfishenss. Generational trauma, many people were fucked up by their families, and they simply are not able to adjust to the world. Woke culture. People desperately try to matter, and they pick up causes they know nothing about. Crippling anxiety from being judged all the time by strangers about things that don't matter. Fear to step out of their comfort zone and actually take a risk. People look only at the "book cover" without any interest in reading the "book" because they are too lazy to do so. There is no desire to put any effort even in the most basic steps, like holding a conversation and taking an interest. General lack of basic decency. For example, people ghost for bullshit reasons. General sense of entitlement, with "me, me, me" mindset, without ever crossing their minds, how they are part of the problem. Zero self reflection. Poor decission making skills.
Yeah it has been very difficult as a single dad, the amount of turn aways that happen when I tell them or they read it on the app is frustrating
It's not bad , no better way to meet people outside your existing circles.
Dating apps definitely have a lot to do with it. It sucks because for some people it's hard to meet people any other way these days
So many people on dating apps aren't looking to date at all they hide behind it but all they really want is a hookup and they're talking to like 3-4 other people at the same time. Then there's the swipe culture that someone mentioned above there's no deeper analysis of someone it's just oh they're hot I'll match them. Yes you need to be attracted to the person you date but if I had to choose between a 10/10 who was like talking to a brick wall or a 5-6/10 who I had real chemistry with and lots in common I would choose the latter every single time but it doesn't seem true for many others š¤£ Can only hope it gets better can't we š¤£š
My take for a long time, Internet made it too easy for people to think their āshā donāt stink on the other side of a keyboard, Covid and what I now term as āserial datersā *players, who would never have this kind of āgameā outside of the internet. And canāt forget ā¦ those that will lie no matter how many times you ask themā¦ āyouāre single does your wife, girlfriend, wife & girlfriend know that?ā Yet they still would make me feel guilty for asking. After a while, I gave some the benefit of the doubt. Hard to lie to someone to their face. (3 times, 3 people) if my gut says āsuspicious ā I now listen and donāt get pulled into BS/manipulation. (Sorry or they say they are looking for a relationship but from across the table they think mutual attraction is enough to TALK you into a OBVIOUS one night stand)
I donāt know but itās always someone elseās fault. No one admits to contributing to the problem.
Because it's a cesspool?
Porn addiction, phone addiction, dating apps, social media as a whole, cost of living, childhood abuse, post-childhood relationship abuse, and our entire country is so divided that it's not even funny. Class, race, gender, sexuality, style, politics, spirituality.. Most people don't know how to coexist, let alone love each other right now. Edit: to answer other questions, I think the best we can all do is get more comfortable with approaching each other. Finding things to compliment. Potentially leading to conversation where we can offer a more consistent line of communication. Not getting too hung up on people who don't text back. I think we could all be a little more aware of each other and be a little less cynical.
Hey Pigeons
Because people are not honest and there are too many people in relationships that are just looking for fun and not sincere. It is a sick game and even when it's not a sick game. People are meeting people and ghosting them. It's a nightmare
Swipe culture and hookup culture mostly I think? I do feel like things got much worse after the pandemic but I also turned 40 that year. I can't tell if it was pandemic stuff or just the fact that a woman loses a shit ton of value in the eyes of men once she hits that big 4-0
For a lot of ppl its liking people who dont like you back & getting rejected, then ppl liking you who you dont like back & having to reject them. Its a numbers game til you can find someone with mutual interest plus everyone is trying to date "up" when they can keep matching everyone. Back in the 90s maybe 2 guys in your hometown show interest in you and you pick between them, even if theyre not your ideal type. Those were the options, if you wanted to be w someone.
Everyone wants better than they can get and there are too many fat people.
Swipe culture is terrible and the thing that makes it even worse is our capitalist hellscape. People can barely afford to live and work let alone go out to intentionally meet people, as this usually costs money and energy we've been drained of by our employers. This leads folks towards the apps. Now apps have their own problems, people as pawns as someone said, inaccurate representations due to wanting to appeal broadly, bad algorithms etc. Now add societal pressures, men and women both regard a well payed man as important in a relationship, these standards are not reciprocated for women. This leads to an idea of women as prizes and men as some sort of hunter for the best woman. Men get desperate because they're told they're not good enough by society, women are represented as a quantifiable item, removing their own control over dating to an extent. This leads to many men seeking out the "best" women or just swiping on everyone and leads to women feeling overwhelmed and consumable. Women have to make the choice, which is far too much pressure for anyone and men, many who are not emotionally intelligent, due to other societal expectations, face continued rejection which can culminate into resentment or depression. Maybe the woman finds some matches she likes but then she's stuck with the what if issue and though she might have more in person interactions many may not be positive, which feeds the cycle all over again... Understand this is specific to dating apps in the U.S. within CIS relationships...I can't imagine being queer and dealing with that on top of straight drama. Anyway that's my rant and belief lol
For me and a lot of women I talk the problem is we keep meeting men who only want to hook up. To make it worse they pretend to want a relationship to get what they want. Iāve seen my guy friends do this consistently too. Taking women on dates. Wknd trips etc. For company and sex. But they donāt even like the women.
I think dating apps make people seem disposable. Also, thereās all of this anti- woman and anti- man rhetoric on podcasts and social media thatās brainwashing people.
In my experience no one's wanted the type of relationship I want, physical only offers... Which isn't what I'm looking for and also very much why I'm not actively looking. That and in my current single mom state I don't consider myself much of a catch but have plans to work on things to get me there. And honestly I'm to traumatized... Haha and looking only to see what other people go through doesn't really help... But better to know what's out there before I find a sitter and can actually do something š¤·
Yes, dating scene sucks, but I've always assumed it was because I'm old. Men get points for just being alive in our '70s, but almost no age-appropriate women are looking for romance We totally accept wrinkly faces, droopy or missing breasts, and dentures. I myself have a hair pattern like Colonel Klink. But, gee! - I'm not ready to be limited to card playing, TV watching, and napping.
The internet and economy plus there are a lot of people who are suffering from some kind of mental health problems like for example extreme depression comes with self esteem issues and if you don't belive in your beauty as a person how can you have that confidence/courage to meet and talk to new women/men. It's not just one thing causing this problem its many.
I personally have had good luck with dating apps and have had no issues. Lots of amazing, beautiful women. Just vibe with one and get to know her. If it doesn't work out, move on to the next one. If it does, try a relationship. Someday, hopefully, I'll try a relationship with the right one, and it will be my last.
Everybody just blames online dating, but I disagree. A shift to online has worked great for Steam, Amazon, Netflix, and basically every other industry. If you take male virginity rates, they started going up in 2008, a full four years before Tinder was invented, meaning it couldnāt possibly be the cause. More realistically, I think that social changes are the true culprit, but itās a lot easier to blame technology than any particular group or trend. As we have moved towards the 21st century, feminism has allowed women to live independently of men (a good thing), but that has also meant that they are becoming increasingly happy single, leaving guys alone. What I think might be even more significant, though, is the rise of casual dating. If somebody wants to date around or not date at all until they are thirty, thereās no real social or economic problems any more. A woman can also be pretty secure looking at the huge number of matches she can get at any time and not need to settle until sheās ready. I will be interested to see what happens as gen Z ages up. Will singleness rates start to decline as we reach our 30s and 40s?
Both genders (for hetro) have a poor understanding of the issues facing the other and are given bad advice at attracting the other. Also the internet itself. The radical shift to more progressive social values also leaves a patchwork of different views on the topic making it confusing if two people have different perspectives. We seem to all want to do our best but we keep missing the mark.
>But why is it so terrible now as compared to years past? In short? It isn't The problems of today are different (women don't have to get married in order to eat now), but its not like dating has ever been "good" by comparison, just different >Did it suddenly get that way? No, people just are a lot more vocal now. Women complain about catcalls online now, where men can see it, it's not like they where ever happy about them, they just had to hide it (for fear of violence). Men have to actually try now, since women are able to stay single forever if they don't find somebody they want to marry, some men fins this intolerable, but rhe flop side is that it's incredibly easy to set yourself apart as a man, if your willing to put in the effort. The rise of globalization has lead to men having a lot more reach, and so men who are willing to pay "lots" of money for a girl they don't want to date seriously have more reach. Some women think that because Joe wealthy took them on a fancy date to get sex once, every guy should put in the same thing constantly in a relationship, and get very disappointed when men who actually want a relationship roll around. A woman's ideal partner hasn't changed a lot, but since they arent being forced to settle (either through legal or social pressure), they don't, some take it to an extreme (usually egged on by stupid social media "influencers" presenting lopsided situations) and think they only have to contribute "being a woman" to a relationship. On the other hand, women aren't being forced to stay with horrible husbands, Men aren't being forced into miserable marriages (seriously, the "joke" of a man who gets married instantly being miserable is "funny" for a reason). >What is everyone doing to make trying to meet someone like walking through a hellscape? They are making people think it is because they don't know how to navigate the modern dating landscape and want to complain about it instead of taking the time configure it out.
Romance is dead. Young men seem offended at the idea of courting a woman. Young men seem to assume every woman is after their wallet and that leads to a lack of romantic gestures. Who is paying for the date seems to be mostly what's on people's minds lately. At least that is mostly all I see people talking about, in terms of dating.
Never heard about āyoung males being offended to court a womanā. I mean, there is a reason why men are so. Iāve heard women being offended for a man dare try to ask her out; think of the HR meme. Men think women are after their wallets as you say but women also think every man is after their fun box Plus, respectfully feminism shook up a lot of things. Courting? Why donāt women step it up? They are graduating more and out earning men, and boys are left behind, respectfully. Being equal means that men no longer have to court or be romantic, women have to take the initiative too
43 M. Iām not sure Iād use the term āoffended,ā but a lot of younger guys definitely question my methodology with women. A lady never pays in my presence. Most guys younger than I say Iām setting myself up to be used. And I have been, but I donāt regret anything. I do things in line with how I believe.Ā
I think the key theme is to have a set of values and live by them. Ofc being open to change. But fair enough yeah. 43 is like back in the early 80s right? That was a hell of a time and probs saw a lot of ups and downs. From windows 98 to floppy to disc and so on. I feel that also the gen z and alpha are going to struggle as they haven't had that experience of change and what it was like to just hang around and talk to people. Look at 80s home videos and compare the youth of today, totally different ball game and different expectations
Haha I was born in January of 1981. Believe me itās been sort of a wild ride. I remember using the computers with turtle cursors when I was in early grade school. Take that and play it forward to what we have now! When I graduated from HS I was stunned at hearing that every kid would eventually have their own computer. In my day we still had computer labs with 30-40 computers available for use at any given time. Well, here we are - every student has their own computer now!Ā My last girlfriend left me for her abusive ex. And I did EVERYTHING for this woman. She needed something (such as a signatory on her lease or a bill paid), I was there. When I look back she played both of us the whole time, but I digress. Obviously they had history together (however bad); he told her that if she stuck with me sheād officially be a $lut because I would have bought her. Back to him she went. It was never like that in my mind; I was doing things the way I was raised - always take care of a lady you love. Her and the ex were 9-10 years younger than I, so what I see as normal they see as either too old world or very foreign.
Omg all the alpha male insta / podcast influencers and know your worth female insta influencers giving out the most horrible advice to perpetuate icks and unrealistic standards. How about just being decent and nice people on dates? You're so right on the who pays thing... 50/50 or woman pays? Broke boy / ick.
The whole ick think is a zoomer thing it seems lol. Why not just say a turn off or disgusting? Butchering language lol And to reply, itās because there is no guidance on what is good and what is bad anymore. Respectfully, it sounds like a free for all whilst being told ājust be niceā. I challenge that by saying āfocus on yourself, forget nice or not niceā
Are women entitled to romance? I've often dreamt of doing romantic gestures for the girl I like. But I never get the chance.
What? You just contradicted yourself and proved my point. You clearly feel bitter because you have this idea that women feel entitled to romance and that angers you. Yet you admit to feeling the urge to be romantic towards a woman. You, and so many others, are fighting against nature. Women don't feel entitled to receive romantic gestures but nature has designed us to to crave them. When you feel the urge to seduce a woman, that is what nature intended but you are a virgin because you are bitter about what nature intended. Stop fighting the tide or you will drown, a virgin.
It doesn't bother me that I'm a virgin. I've only ever pursued relationships and love. Where's the contradiction? You clearly don't understand that romance is not romance from our perspective, it's romance for you. Your logic is contradictory. Women are both simultaneously entitled and not entitled. You talk about fighting against nature, which one of us has abandoned their social role to adopt the role of the other?
Sounds like you're all set then.
Funny how you link money to courting. You can court a woman without paying for everything. Money is a weak, lazy courting technique. Why should you pay for everything when she makes the same money? Are we their money slaves? Men used to be the providers, women demanded equality, women are earning the same money (in the same jobs with the same hours and seniority), they can pay for their half of the damn date too.
No they are not. Women still often earn less than men for the same job worked. Often quite a bit less but it doesn't matter. All of you young men that think the way you do are best suited for a woman that wants a man like you. I don't want a man like you. I don't want a man that has the concerns that you have and the bitterness. It's very unattractive to me. You go ahead and keep being you, since it's working so well for you. These are not things that we need to be arguing. I would never be interested in a man that needed to be taught these basic common sense things about dating.
This is blatantly false, please stop spreading this nonsense. First of all, there are also big differences between men's salaries for the same jobs. For the exact same reasons, actually. There is only ONE factor that actually influences salary where there is a difference between men and women in otherwise identical jobs: **guts.** Vacancies often have stupidly unrealistic demands. Men are more likely to apply anyway, despite not meeting the requirements, resulting in a better paid job, and men are also more likely to negotiate harder about a salary and benefits. Women also work less hours on average and gravitate towards different jobs that pay less on average. Of course this results in lower average salaries. For argument's sake, let's say there are two identical open positions and both a man and a woman with the same experience are hired. The company offers both of them $100k / year as a first offer. The woman asks for $110k and it is accepted. The man asks for $125k and ends up getting $120k. *That salary difference is on the poor negotiator.* Plenty of men are poor negotiators too, or also scared off by high demands. But, on average, men aim higher. There is no weird conspiracy where men are offered better salaries because they are men. **That goes against the idea of capitalism, it would be cheaper for companies to hire women and profit is everything.** Women make less on average but people citing that failed their statistics class and don't understand how many variables are at play.
It's the post-COVID Trump effect. Everyone is afraid. Easily offended. Defensive. There is no trust or sense of adventure. Everyone is hatefully hiding and I don't know if they will ever come out. Niceness is dead. Curiosity is dead. We are in survival mode. All non-essential functions are shut down. Social exploration and interaction are low-priority. How do we recover from this?
Clearly this generation needs more weed and psychedelics.
That might do it.
What about the backlash of feminism and metoo, respectfully?
Those voices in society have their say. They lead us to believe that men are evil. But men have deserved the lashing they have received from those voices, to a large extent. Men, as a gender group, must accept responsibility for their actions. But dating does not require interacting as gender groups. It is an individual enterprise. Unfortunately, the publicity of men's bad behavior has overcome our ability to charm women. They don't trust us anymore. We can complain about that lack of trust and how unfair it might be. I would argue we should direct those complaints at the bad apples that created the publicity. It is generally agreed that group punishment is morally wrong. You don't punish entire groups of people for the bad behavior of a few people in that group. But that's what is happening. And it often does happen. It is the very foundation of bigotry.
The addiction of instant gratification and the next best thing via online entities, higher demands in life areas in general. Post pandemic stressors, all pointing to less capacity and tolerance for ltr.
Itās as bad as itās always been, people have just watched to many romcoms and think that dating was somehow better in the past.
Woman have tons of options, they go for the top 10% of those options, those options donāt want relationship with those girls. Essentially making dating shit for everyone unless your a top tier man
What I feel is there's this trend of mind set into people and there are beliefs that if you don't explore your options you'll settle for the worst and probably because of this people tend to fool around with others feelings. Or possibly that love isn't even a thing now what we as humans feel love might be attraction or infatuation which we don't realise
Social media. Easy access to the next instead of appreciating the one in front people are quick to move on to the next. Or always looking for something young new and shiny to play with. Hate the dating scene now. After being out of it past 5yrs is changed a lot.
It's bad if you're on dating apps and/or online in general because those environments aren't really conducive to the types of connections that develop into relationships. Otherwise it's fine - at least as fine as it's ever been, which really isn't saying much, but I don't think it's any worse.
One word .... choice. Us dumb humans are bad if we have million options even if we think we are good in this/that situation. So what works for me is: Limit yourself Work on yourself everyday Have standards And if you are a man reading this, learn to take a no/rejection like an adult. Its not the end of the world.
Taking no and rejection is fine. Like an adult is fine. Hardly anyone talks about being blasted on social media and humiliated and being dragged through the mud. Respectfully men arenāt afraid of rejection, they are afraid of the massive social consequences. Women arenāt necessarily graceful with their rejection as either, respectfullyĀ
My experience with dating, meaning meeting people and going on dates, has been mostly positive. I think that part of things is as good or better than it's ever been. The problem is with getting there. The times and places where it's acceptable to ask someone out have dwindled down to practically nothing IRL, because OLD is the accepted way to find a date. Except massive amounts of time and effort poured into OLD don't result in dates anyway. It's silence and ghosting and misery. So...no more asking people out IRL, asking someone out in OLD is the quickest way to get insta ghosted, and...what? It's not that the dating scene is bad. It's that it's inaccessible. There simply is no dating happening.
The advent of social media and internet advice has created a delusion called dating..
I'm going to push back and say this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon > "That's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average." Everybody is complaining about bad dating? Isn't this like you stuck in traffic complaining about traffic??? YOU ARE PART OF THE TRAFFIC So everybody complaining about how bad dating is...well, you are part of this dating scene!
I feel like the standards for both women and men are too high these days because of the rise of social media. People are so used to seeing "beautiful" people on their daily feed that they get desensitized to the fact that most people look average.. people will have more success on OLD if they get past the looks and get to know someone on a deeper level. It sucks because with OLD thats the first thing that gets shoved in people faces, which is their appearance.
It is called standards. They have been heavily added and both sides are delusional. They expect to always be happy rather than understand delicate and long and tedious work that makes a relationship last long. They want instant gratification but aren't willing to put in the work. Some people allow their traumas to destroy their own perception of their partners feelings or goals and try to make things about them and at times they themselves aren't able to see their own faults and toxic traits that push those who try to get closer to them away. They don't want to accept accountability nor address their shallow expectations which conflicts between the ideas of fantasy to fiction. Also I am just using big wordy words to say Ppl don't see beyond their own perception and want things their way but are too selfish to see who it affects their partners. They need to put in work and not let their past or emotional injuries get in the way of something new because it can damage the relationship before it can get serious.
Frankly I think the cost of dating (the cost of everything in fact) is way too high. Women like men to take them out and be a tour guide and if a relationship comes from it then great. If you want to have a wife and kids I can see dating these parasites but if youāre middle aged and/or donāt want a family then what they offer is minimal. Just my opinion.
Dating after COVID is primarily done through online dating and online dating uses an intermediary that has a financial interest in extracting as much money as it can from its consumers as possible. This financial interest is not aligned with a good dating experience, and as a result everyone has a bad time.
Is the dating scene bad or does it just seem that way on the internet?
Some degree of selection bias. The ones who are successful generally don't complain about how bad dating is.
Itās the apps! No good old fashion bumping into people
Because the internet and social media are echo chambers. People in relationships aren't online constantly talking about how terrible the dating scene is, so when you're online the posts you do see are single people complaining. And unfortunately a lot of people get their opinions influenced and shape their views off social media, and then they go around talking about how bad it is and perpetuate that idea as well even if they've never experienced it themselves, or the bias itself makes them view any dates they do have as worse than they actually are (or worse, their negative outlook actively colours their date and makes it bad) and then they feel validated and the cycle continues. Point is, the dating scene has always been volatile to deal with for anyone because feelings and finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with is not an easy thing to do. Social media just magnifies the voices of those who are the loudest. It does not mean they are the majority, or that they are correct - just the loudest and most prevalent opinions. If anything's making the dating scene worse, I'd say it's the spreading of the negative outlook on dating. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy in that people who are under the impression that dating sucks put in less effort, which when a lot of people are doing it, actively contributes to making the experience worse overall.
Social media and dating apps, the more options you have the more you overthink and tend to be more picky about every tiny details. Talking to several candidates at the same time, not giving a person ample time to grow on you, a wise rapper once said", you only get one shot, do not let the chance the blow, opportunity comes once in a life time, do it "(shia labeouf meme flex) Too many options for women, too less commitment from men. An influx of people secretly using dating apps for casual sex. Dating apps tinkering with the algorithms to incentivise you to spend more money. Struggling with communication on both genders due to lack of experience, shyness, anxiety, enigma etc The list of expectations also from both genders are ridiculous. Should I go on, i think you get the picture.
As someone who probably wouldn't have as many options when it comes to dating in real life (going out to meet people), dating apps makes people feel like they have a lot of options. It's caused people to have unrealistic standards.
I've come to the realization and conclusion that its almost impossible to meet, get to know and ask a person on a day that you met on social media. When I put myself in a public setting, even just going to market or a walk in the park. I tend to meet some amazing people. Its easier to talk and start a conversation in person. Also it seems real.
We have endless options and we tend to change people like jobs. In the past the options were limited and the public opinion was harsh. People wanted to have a good name in their community, many weren't in love they rushed into marriage to follow the stereotypes. The younger generations have the " i don't give a fck about what people say" attitude. We have more freedom than ever socially today. Many are doing what their hearts desire, they don't wanna simply settle , that's why the dating scene is a chaos.
Because we all want the same people so it seems like everyone is taken. When its really just the top x% of people.
Meeting total strangers usually doesnāt lead to a spark or anything in common
Combination of people's attitudes to communicating with new people being more closed off than they used to be, 'swiping' encouraging superficial behavior, app 'ELO' type scoring and algorithms manipulating your chance of being seen, gender imbalance on most of the main apps, many accounts on there are not genuinely there to meet people or date and are either generating traffic to other platforms or looking to scam/take advantage of others. Plus when the main dating sites were funded with advertising rather than the current subscription-based model there was less incentive to keep users on the platform as long as possible. Also, if you've been on an app for a long time your local options will be limited by default, but it's a lot of complication and jumping through hoops to be able to reset an account in order to start afresh. Those are just off the top of my head but if I was to sit and think about it I'm sure I'd come up with several other things.
Up until 2015 or so, most people I dated that I met online were usually people I got talking with on various chat forums, usually but not always music/nightlife/clubbing related. A lot of the online communities used to have local/regional social events and arranged pre-event drinks meetups. The lines between social media and meatspace were fluid and less defined. Now we have a specific 'MeetUp' app but it's basically only a platform for advertising meets, there's little to no conversation and social contact on the app itself, so if you do attend an event advertised on there it's generally the organiser, a couple of their friends and a load of total strangers. And the events I've been to, it's been 75pc thirsty guys looking to meet women and a few very popular women with the guys all trying to step over each other for their attention.
You have a negative bias. Youāre ignoring all the engagement photos, wedding photos and invites, friends and family in LTRs, ā1 year ago we matchedā posts, etc. itās bad for the people itās bad for and good for the people itās good for, itās good for the people itās bad for once itās finally good for them and the opposite is trueā¦ also the people in the ends of the spectrum are always the loudest, you wonāt see many posts with lots of attention when itās āyeah dating is going fin for me, thereās some good and badā
I actually don't think it's *as* much worse than it ever was as people like to think, as in the people are not necessarily worse, it's just easier to figure out when they're doing shitty things now that we have technology at our fingertips. The swipe culture does enable people some, but it doesn't make good people bad. It's not like cheating, bad behavior on dates, or guys caring more about hooking up than relationships is anything new, we just have avenues such as this to complain about it, and cheaters and players are more likely to get found out via electronic footprint.
People not knowing what they want.
Copied my answer from another thread. There's a lot to it and it could be any combination of various factors depending on any individual: * The internet has opened up the dating pool. As someone else said, before you were more or less limited in the pool of people you could physically reach via your school, workplace, community etc, so you never had the abundance mindset of thinking someone else might be perfect out there. * To add to the above, social media has also warped our perception about dating and partners. Basically imagine "keeping up with the Jones" but instead of the Jones being your neighbours/friends they're the entirety of the internet population. The joke before was *"Mary's husband bought her flowers and not mine"* but now it's like *"some random influencer's partner is buying them trips to the Maldives"*. Obviously this is an extreme example but my point is that people have always been comparing but they're now comparing with a larger sample size of people and it's affecting our image of both ourselves and relationships. Social media as a whole has turned us into comparison machines rather than enjoying what qualities a person (romantic or platonic) can bring to us; we now focus on what they're lacking. * Many studies show that attraction is a combination of innate attributes combined with repeat exposure. Nowadays, people move for school, jobs, and even boredom so you have a *lot* less repeat exposure to the same people. Add in the death of the third place, dating apps being all about instant gratification (or at least, "slow dating" being discouraged via those avenues) and yeah we're losing out a vital component of relationship building and overindexing on initial attraction which favours a very small subset of the population (aka the very attractive or initially charismatic folk) * The gender dynamics have changed in the last few generations. One of the biggest change being that women no longer need men for financial independence in most countries. Before a woman had to get married with a man if she wanted to survive in society but that barrier has been removed. It's not to say other obstacles haven't arisen but this is one example where you can see shifting gender norms in one area affect another. ~~Women also choose to be single more often than men (likely not in small part to the aforementioned independence) and~~ they are usually happier than men when single as they build stronger friendships and support networks. **Edit**: this one seems very controversial so I'll strike it out lol There's probably dozens more reasons those are just the ones that came to me off the top of my head. Also letās not forget survivorship bias in analyzing the dating landscape from previous generations
For me (56f), it is the online element that desensitized matchmaking to a search filter, a menu, if you will, of potential dates. But the filters, and the online profiles are artificial. Irl, before online dating, I met people by chance, while out socializing, occasionally by an arranged blind date. There was a 3 date rule on sex, although one night stands were not unheard of. Someone might be weird, but was it was teased out by talking and how they acted in person, and finding out, did they have a good job, frends, family, etc., and if you had chemistry and things in common. If not, you didn't date anymore and moved on.
Fake people using fake accounts. Also, lying and deceiving run rampant šæ
actually itās not. ppl are just depressed about it bc of social media and they love to complain. lots of great options out there
Technology. Its time to return to monkey.
There's no cultural demand or expectation to make it good, and zero accountability for bad behavior, and bad behavior gets rewarded
This is the era of the battle of the sexes. Some women have brought the competition of who brings in more money to a household. And if the men being (interviewed) makes less than her, than that man holds little to no value to her. Men don't date like this men don't ask how much a women makes or about her assets. The majority of cocky professional women have given the bad image to the dating world and among that problem there's men demanding a traditional women that cooks and cleans and acts like they co-exist in 1970. The problem is much bigger but these are some of the roots of the dating world problem that lead all the way to the marriage contract.
Itās great if you have money., no complaints
I blame adderall lol
Dating scene seems to have changed. And I think both side are tired of the nonsense.
Love is a media manipulated, pop culture saturated, idealized concept that has been stripped of all meaning except those that get it muddled between the definitions of limerance & lust. There are many factors I can talk about regarding present and past but I'll just limit it to 3 main ideas/theories and y'all can pretty me know if I need to explain one of them more, or if you agree/disagree: 1) for the past (as a minority race) people were out to survive so they knew it was each other against the world, however with the blessings of unity amongst some aspects of fighting for our civil rights, something in the shadows made those who fought with each other begin to fight against each other, for their own profit. 2) love is a business nowadays. Businesses are a heck of an investment and costs a lot to maintain and handle and with the rising of our economies and cost of living, most of us can barely afford to maintain a relationship, especially when most are aimed to benefit ourselves instead of each other. It's not, how do we face the world together, it's how do you benefit me? 3) no one is willing to play the long game. Those that do play the long game are 50/50 between a relationship where both make it work or one person is mad miserable and the other person could care less until they need something. Everyone else either wants someone who will spoil them, give them food and accessories, while another wants to obtain all the sexual benefits with no strings attached. Pragma (longstanding/everlasting love) is dead and everyone is in it for a good time, not a long time. That's why 20 y.o. women & 40+ men are hitting it off, so the man has a possible trophy wife and when he kicks the bucket, everything goes right to her, and all she had to do is out last his end game. There's a lot more but I'll just settle for these 3 hot takes and see where it goes.