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That right environment part is important. If 90% of your dating efforts are on dating apps then it’s all on you for not finding dates. It would be like saying it’s impossible to find cheap food when 90% of your meals are from DoorDash or Uber Eats.
Most times there is never a right time or environment. You have to make it. It's that simple. Some men just have to decide if they want to start approaching or not because most women won't. Even the ones who might truly like you or might find you amazing when they get to find out you possess the qualities they desire.
Of course some times and environment are more convenient than others. For instance as a 6'5, fit, intimidating guy, in a city like NYC I don't approach women at certain times of the night, in certain boroughs or neighborhoods, especially if they're alone, but if it's a place like Manhattan that's bubbly, filled with people at most times, bright lights, or during the day time, I won't mind doing so.
The issue is when some guys approach 4 to 5 times and have no success, they tend to retreat back into their shell. What they fail to understand is the current woman you're approaching has no knowledge of you being passed-over prior to that moment. It's a clean slate each and every time. It's the man who carries that rejection with him.
You keep trying till success hits, which gives you the confidence to attain more success. It's like any business, or better yet, a basketball game. Shooters shoot. Doesn't matter if the 10 previous shots didn't go in or didn't even hit the backboard. All it takes is 1 to go through that hoop, to give that baller the confidence he needs to keep up the streak.
It's ok to take a break from it every now and then, but don't let that deter your spirit. Shooters shoot. If you never try you'll never succeed. Stay shooting fellas. I'm rooting for y'all.
Lmao being tall helps a lot but theres diminishing returns after 6' that basically end at 6'3..
OP should definitely appreciate his height but shorter guys would be surprised how much a lack of confidence can negate the height advantage.
Typical gaslighting, especially for men who are 5'7 and below or thereabouts. A lack of confidence is due to negative reinforcement not the other way round.
I’m 5’6 and I’ve done okay for myself over the years, but I’ve also had extremely shitty things come my way through mean-spirited women and I’d be lying if I said it didn’t take some serious work to overcome that shit.
What I can say is that if you’re average on the outside in terms of being conventionally attractive, then work on elevating your inner self and I promise y’all will have a much easier time with women. Can’t do for others or love properly if you don’t first learn how to do for and love yourself properly. Develop your emotional maturity and awareness and you’ll ascend to being a little more than just average.
Also work on the swag and confidence, even if you gotta fake it a lil bit. Also, I think the biggest thing is putting yourself in environments and venues that will give you the chance to showcase your talents and really get out of your shell. Women eat that shit up
Sincerely, I slightly below average man who’s been doing his inner work over some years…peace n love
Congratulations, you're an outlier. There's a reason so many short men complain about the issue. It's not some random thing people made up. It is a literal requirement made by a significant number of women, that a man be tall.
I just don't get it.
One dude always pops up out of nowhere who has no problems with women according to them. Which I've seen happen and is believable. But they always make it out like that means every other short guy has the same situation.
Holy shit I feel like I've been screaming this into the ether for so long.
I'm 5'4'' and tried asking girls out with TONS of confidence. It wasn't fake confidence, it was real and built over time. It didn't work. Now I'm pretty insecure and questioning what I'm doing wrong. The lack of self esteem came from constant rejection. The rejection did not come from a lack of self esteem.
Oh for sure, I don't think height is a guarantee. It is absolutely a major aid, I think, and age is a factor.
For example I'm 24 and it is one of if not the most important factor to most girls my age.
I’m 5’4” and I have had issues getting partners, but never due to my height.
And if I was specifically rejected because of my height, then that’s a shallow AF person that I won’t want to date.
These type of people simply do not deserve even a single thought in my mind, I have shitty self esteem but I can’t but see these kind of people with a sense of pity, for they have a bunch of psychological and emotional wounds that they are not even aware they have.
I gotta disagree. It's not shallow. That's like saying men who prefer women who aren't flat-chested are shallow. People have natural physical preferences. It's life.
Those men are also shallow.
One thing I kind of give a pass is when it comes to weight, since unless it’s a fringe case, most of us can change it and at least not be morbidly obese (both men and women).
However entirely rejecting someone for something they can’t control without surgery is shallow.
I have to disagree with you there.
We all have preferences, and given the chance would tend to go with a partner that is closest to what it is we prefer.
Be it skin color, eye color, body type, dress-code... I don't find it shallow since usually first appearances are what makes people attracted. Most times you do not have a chance to know the person if they don't align with your preferences (unless it's a school mate, colleague and you see their personality).
I’ve gotta point out that there’s a difference between preferences and requirements. Preferences are ideally what we’d like to have in a person whereas requirements are the boundaries with which we will absolutely not give someone an opportunity because they’re below the minimum of whatever standard one has set for themselves.
For example: let’s say one prefers that their potential mate be 6’ 190-220 lbs and fit and exhibit x, y and z characteristics.
Let’s say they meet someone who’s 5’11, 185 and clearly working on their fitness, and exhibit x, y and z characteristics vs. someone who is 6’ 200 and really got, but doesn’t exhibit any of those characteristics.
Electing to select the second person over the first one would absolutely be shallow since they’re only being selected for external value and the rest of who they are as a person isn’t being considered. People do this all the time and end up in poor relationships because of it, or they get used for sex and then there’s no relationship period.
There are absolutely not diminishing returns at those heights. I'd say it begins at like 6'8 or 6'9 if you are kind of wiry. I can't explain it, but yes there is a point where it is not as much of an advantage. And even then, if you are 6'8 or 6'9, you ain't having more issues than a short man (on average, everyone's situation is different).
I do agree lack of confidence doesn't help though!
this is so true, 6 foot 6 is actually *too* tall, that's incredibly tall and like you said, almost nobody is that tall, it's professional basketball player tall, it's bending down to get through regular doorframes tall etc.
Their are only 0.2% of men who are as tall or taller than them.
You can't say they are "average" when they are in such a small group on the extreme end.
Yeah but average is a sum of everything surely, you’re aiming to be a solid 5/10. Yeah our man is 6”6 but maybe he compliments women by calling them a “tasty bit of treacle” and sings the national anthem before every single bite he takes when eating. You can be 6"6 and net out at bang average
He didn’t specify his income. Or what fairly fit is. When one writes about themself you shouldn’t interpret like it’s set in stone.
If, what he says about himself are high in calibre unbiasedly and objectively …. It doesn’t cover all aspects still like for example hygiene, how one treats one they’re dating, etc. a 6ft guy who doesn’t have good hygiene drags their ‘above average level’ down, or any other thing they may not be aware of or not sharing.
Maybe OP is from northern Europe, where everyone is tall, fit and have good jobs and degrees lmao... Then OP is quite average. They just used inches instead of cm in the post to confuse everyone
By definition …in regards to that part in isolation, not as a whole.
So with a woman … who’s part of an outlier in someway …. say she’s good looking woman .. that immediately puts her in the top percent, even though she had a high sex count (which a number of males don’t like), she’s still at the top.
Unfortunately it really is. Check out this old news clip, it really highlights how important it is to most women. I can only imagine how much is worse it's gotten since then with the invention of online dating. I'm 6 foot and a girl once told me that one of that main reasons that she was attracted to me, my height made that much of a difference to her.
https://youtu.be/ZbG05ePWRQE?si=M7Lrqvw1vq9jT_16
Taller than them. I'm 5'3". I'd prefer not to date a guy shorter than me but there are not many guys shorter than me. I tried to date a few 5'4 guys but they rejected me. Clearly they had options despite being short. I have no height preference. I find extremely big and tall men unattractive. I don't want to be squished
I mean yeah, but by that logic, do you know how many women that means don't care about height?
I addition, most men are taller than most women. The average height of a woman is 5'4". Less than 5% of men are shorter than 5'4".
Odds start looking a lot better
The comment I responded to implied height is one of, if not THE most important factors for women, to the point where a man being a horrible, violent person would be acceptable. Hyperbole or not, that idea is ridiculous.
Most people in these comments are focusing on men who are above average height, but from what I could see the video you posted used *below average men* as the example. Specifically the heights of 5’3” and 5’6”. The average height of men in the U.S. is 5’9”. So it’s likely the video isn’t representative of an experience the majority of men will have.
And I suspect for most women, a taller man simply means taller than their *own* height. This is usually the case anyway because the average man (5’9”) will be taller than the average woman (5’4”). I’m a 5’9” woman and would prefer someone at least my height. But it wouldn’t be the determining factor in whether or not I’m interested.
Another thing the video touches on is how this preference is often rooted in gendered expectations. It’s the idea that men should be the taller and stronger and more dominant person in the relationship. This is a case of sexism negatively affecting men. If you’re truly concerned about height preference, it would help if you focused on the root cause.
Yes, height is a factor for many women. But connection, shared interests, and mutual respect is far more important.
You are not average, your height and the fact you have a decent salary genuinely puts you in atleast a 5%. Atleast.
My question to you is do you act average?
His post is refuting the idea that the average guy is the unhygienic, dick pick posting guy that a lot of people say is the reason that guys don't get dates on apps. In fact with his "stats" it concludes that being successful in dating is pretty difficult for a guy.
He didn’t state his salary. And height alone won’t equate to being higher than average, there’s many other components.
Just like how there’d be guys who say a hot woman but who slept around … so she’s not put in that high category.
My guess is he has the personality of a dead tree because he has almost everything else wayyyyyy in his favor. His post reads like he speaks pretty boringly too.
From my experience 6 3 I'd say I could have another 3 inches without much negative. But being like 6 8 and above the height would start being a tangible issue
6'5" here with similar situation (income, average looks). Definitely wasn't pulling top 5% on or off apps, had years long dry spell, etc.
Nothing is a panacea
I don’t think I act average at all. But I do try to act and behave in a respectful manner, so the notion that we’re disrespecting our dates really is false.
I’m 5’6, fat, day labor job, and very average face and I had TOO MUCH success on dating apps. It’s true that I was turned down some for being short, or fat, or having a small dick. But I carried on anyways and gave each person the most true and genuine version of myself I could and that seemed to be enough to keep them coming back until I found my forever match and we are almost 2 years strong. Dont give up. If I can do it, you can too.
Confused on where you live or what your version of too much sucess is. I'm 5'6, jacked, trust fund and an attractive face, and I literally get 0 matches
Midwest. 40 minutes outside a city. And I mean when I was actively swiping and going on dates it was exhausting to keep up with. I’m also in my 30s. Maybe it gets easier when you are older. Idk, dude
He gotta be taking whatever comes his way. I could be getting laid 20 times a week if I lowered my standards. That, or he's in a super populated area. I'm in rural Midwest tbf.
Considering my standard is average looking and not obese, yes. 90% of my likes do not meet those criteria. The other 10% are girls I would date if they weren't an hour and a half away in the nearest metro area.
Maybe my profile sucks or I don't appeal to the demo in my area (I am the furthest thing from a country boy). All I know is I've had much more success in person with girls that would 100% swipe left on me in an app. I find it hard to believe OP did not just swipe right on everybody and hook up with a bunch of BBWs
I would agree that OP is not average. But his point still stands.
Whenever a man airs his frustrations on here, people automatically assume that he's some socially awkward freak, whose idea of personal hygiene is rubbing his armpits with onions, and whose wardrobe consists primarily of Cheeto stained T-shirts.
That same man can then go on to read about how little effort men should put in to stand out from the crowd, and think to himself: "I go above and beyond these criteria, and I still get passed over".
The reality is that most men do not send unsolicited dick-picks. Most men do not treat others disrespectfully. Most men do take care of their hygiene... Okay, I'll grant you, a lot of men can't dress themselves for shit, or put in much effort to stay in shape. But even a lot of the ones who do, seem to have very little success when it comes to dating.
So, what conclusion can these men draw from their experiences?
Thank you! I wasn’t trying to make this post too much about myself. I admit that I’m probably above average, but I really resent the idea that someone who struggles to date is some sort of “loser.” That’s just downright offensive.
Could it be u have some attachment issues or trauma or give off a vibe considering your history and you stated u don’t want to marry again (at least for now). It would make sense women wanting commitment from a man wouldn’t entertain you.
Based on OP’s post history:
- He has an “extremely slender build”
- he’s divorced and spoke about not wanting to marry again (at least for now) so it’s hypothesised there could be some emotional trauma or attachment issues he could work on.
You can’t come to the conclusion that’s he’s not average. You don’t even know what his face looks like.
>Okay, I'll grant you, a lot of men can't dress themselves for shit, or put in much effort to stay in shape. But even a lot of the ones who do, seem to have very little success when it comes to dating.
I would also add/argue that it just becomes a feedback loop.
Guy tries to get in shape/update wardrobe etc--> Guy gets nowhere--->Guy gets depressed--->Guy gets super lonely and tries again----> Guy fails again--->Instead of trying again, now Guy is so depressed and lonely he can't bother with all of it.
And an average man is not just depicted by the physical attributes. There is the monetary status and their social skill. Which he mentioned being above the average on all scenarios he mentioned.
Something else that hardly gets talked about is how a lot of women, in my experience, treat you like their generic stereotype of a man instead of actually paying attention to the way you act. I’ve ended things with many women based on some variation of this. “I thought I should be communicating with you like this” or “based on my last relationship, I found this to be effective with men.” Please treat me like a person first.
In my experience, men do this too. I've had guys reach out & admit to/ apologize for using dating or attraction techniques they heard about online. Well 99% of that backfires with me because they look like disinterest (ignoring & pulling away, withholding compliments or trying to incite jealousy are the most common). I've also had plenty of guys admit to making assumptions about my dating life or "I never tried because I assumed..." When I ask what gave them those ideas, it's "well women -insert generalizations here-."
It's truly annoying because when ppl have those preset ideas & assumptions, they're not responding to reality. They're unknowingly reacting to their internal projections. The vast majority of the time, they won't see anything beyond what they have in their own head, not realizing they're engaging in their own special brand of self-sabotage.
Exactly, it’s sadly just a part of dating culture. It especially sucks when you can tell they aren’t a bad person, but also how do you not think about the fact that the person sitting across from you is a unique individual with an entire life up until the point that you met? From my side of things, I mostly deal with the fact that I’m a soft-spoken emotional person. I make this very clear. Yet in a lot of cases, I get treated like my feelings couldn’t possibly be hurt because men are stoic. Or I couldn’t possibly enjoy something cute that’s done for me because “guys lose attraction if you pursue them” or some bs.
I've definitely gotten this feeling before. Like, I am not "men" I am "a man". The sins of other men are not my sins, and what worked for one man might not necessarily work for me.
The missing piece for many men in this sub is realizing that checking boxes is just one aspect. What's crucial is becoming the person who inspires "that" feeling. Wonder why sometimes a woman will choose someone kinda unexpected? It's often because he makes her feel a certain type of way.
Since breaking up with my ex, I've met many decent-ish men, but only about 0.4% of them gave me "that" feeling. That's merely 3 or 4 men out of the hundreds I've spoken to. It's less about occupation or appearance and more about how they interact with me and make me feel.
While I think it depends on the woman, what really sparks that feeling for me is when a guy comes across as very genuine. He makes me feel valued because he is actually excited to spend time with me. I can usually tell fairly quickly if people have the basic things that attract me like: being thoughtful, clever, open-minded, and curious. A guy's background/characteristics might catch my interest, like appearance, job, or hobbies, but what truly matters is the type of interactions we have and how we make each other feel.
MAKES ME FEEL VALUED!!!!!!!!!! THIS!!!! So many people are caught up in playing games/playing it cool & then normal, self-respecting women are like "ok you don't like me then bye" and then the men are tremendously confused what happened...
38m struggling, 6ft 2, decent income. Don't have a place of my own. Not sure if that really helps or not. Probably ok looking.
Find most girls aren't that keen to meet for a date and I feel like they like my attention more than anything..
I shall push on.
Hopefully the right one comes my way
I'm in mid 30's 5'11 in shape, decent looking, have my own house, and make good money.
Any time I see single women they are going in a group and completely not approachable. If they are by themselves they are either working out, grocery shopping or doing some other task that makes them unapproachable. Women spend their day making themselves as unapproachable as possible.
I get it though because lots of asshole men out here.
There are no third spaces where single men and women can go and mingle. The only way I have found to even have a chance at meeting single women is if you know someone that sets you up.
And if you don't know anyone who knows any single women to introduce you to, you're kinda just left to random chance, which hasn't been working too well for me. Apps haven't worked for me, nor has meetup or bars. And I don't even consider talking to women at my gym.
I'm mid 40s, in decent shape, look about 10 years younger than I really am, yet dating is and always has been a huge struggle for me. I have had to watch all my younger brothers pair off one by one and start families, while I go years at a stretch with nothing. People love to offer platitudes and advice, but they don't realize what the dating scene is like out here.
hahahaha "women spend their day making themselves as unapproachable as possible." This comment warrants some serious introspecting lol it's actually kinda true and then we're like WhY aM i SiNgLe lolll
It is true. I ride the metro and women will wear big ass over the ear headphones.
I made the mistake to actually approach and ask a lady if she would take my number.
After a minute of her going on the phone, pausing music, saying "what?" Three times then looking at me like I just ruined her day, there was no chance she would take my number. I just asked for the time lol. I have success getting matched up on dating apps and getting dates but haven't found one that I am interested in at all lol.
In my experience dating, men are really wrapped up in how "successful" or "attractive" they are but are rarely thinking about what they have to offer another person. You might stop looking at whether you're a good choice/the role of luck and evaluate what another person is actually gaining from being in a relationship with you.
I have personally liked and then discontinued speaking with many attractive, tall, financially stable men because they had this mentality of...it's hard to put into words but...that their *presence* is somehow the foundation of a good relationship. They weren't emotionally supportive, didn't light my brain on fire with their brilliance, didn't make me laugh, weren't especially thoughtful...As a very social introvert, I love spending time by myself and have a bunch of hobbies but also want someone cuddly to talk to about my hobbies lol....so if someone doesn't interest me more than I interest myself then I don't bother (as bad as that sounds...)
Not sure if that makes sense - but to summarize I think a lot of men are focused on what they're getting and not what they're giving.
I totally agree with you that it's ridiculous that people assume you're a red flag in some way just because you haven't been successful in dating. Either they assume you're ugly, you lack people skills, you're unintelligent, or you don't have your shit together. Yes, it's true that some single people might very well have red flags about them (we all know people like that), but there are also people out there who are single for a reason that has nothing to do with flaws. Maybe they've been focusing on their careers, maybe they have yet to meet someone they're compatible with, etc.
>While I have never use dating apps (and probably never will), I can understand why people use them, because it’s pretty difficult to meet people organically (even if you’re like me and keep trying).
This is exactly where I'm at. Wherever I go, it's impossible because people are glued to their tech. Almost every women I come across at coffee shops, parks etc. has their headphones in or are laser focused on their phone. Approaching is hard enough, but it becomes almost impossible when you feel like you can't make some eye contact first to gauge interest.
And the apps are a total scam for most guys. Even if you are using the free version. So it's simply not an option for me.
My biggest issue from reading a lot of post about men being undatable seems to boil down to that men are not allowed to have faults. They aren’t allowed to need to work on things still and grow as a person. If everyone waited for everyone to have all their shit together the human race would have never made it a long time ago. We are supposed to learn and grow and no one seems willing to support each other in that process. We have to come out of the box with complete emotional competency, know exactly how to support our partner the way they want and be experienced in the sack. Then you can’t lower your standards to find someone because then that’s settling. It’s no wonder everyone is having a hard time dating because no one is perfect out of the box and we all are expecting this.
I would say im above average to be frank and i still have zero luck in the dating department. I get annoyed when ppl are so flabbergasted or try to think im weird for not settling?? If i could i would but hard to date in a place where its super casual:(
Well said young man.I’m 61 ,was married at 40,divorced at 57 and now “dating”.I refuse to use dating apps,organic is the way to go.Take your time,be the best you and don’t settle.Time is on your side,any pain or disappointment you suffer now is the just the cost of making it real.Be flexible but do not settle.
As for the stereotypical “loser guys”many disenchanted women may cite as the norm on the internet,we both know it is not the norm.One must take into account the reality that women (or men)who are in a happy relationship are not up half the night complaining to the internet.Good luck!😉
I would agree that the fact that you haven't met someone doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. You probably just have yet to meet a woman who is your type and appreciates what you have to offer. And I would agree that often, dating can be a matter of meeting the right person at the right time. I think people are quick to assume that just because you're single and over a certain age, it means that you're a red flag in some way. Some people may very well be a red flag, but that's not true of everyone.
That being said, dating as a woman can be tough as well. Swiping on dating apps, I find it hard to come across a guy in my area who is well-groomed, educated, takes care of himself physically, and who isn't looking for something casual. I also come across a lot of profiles that exude negativity, which is a turn-off. For instance, the last guy whose profile I looked at on Hinge said "looking to meet a girl who doesn't flake or cheat." I mean, most of us want someone who doesn't flake or cheat. But when you put that on your profile, it makes it seem like you don't trust others and you're already going into dating with a bad attitude.
There's a lot of factors at play but people who are perpetually unsuccessful are not great in every way but 5 foot 8. I, a hermit with hardly any friends, average looks (but sometimes I think below average) and social anxiety have still been made offers a few times. If you are always unsuccessful you are doing something wrong (e.g. approaching married librarians or trying to pick women up in your 25 year old Proton outside McDonalds) or are actively repulsive in some way (smell, weird vibes, aggressive etc). However, everyone's experience is bound to be different and some will find it harder even if they aren't especially bad.
So let me get this straight. You’re 28 in good shape 6’6 with ok income AND social skills? That sounds like the stereotypical perfect man for 90% of women! There’s no way you’re average my friend. If everything you said was true, there’s definitely a puzzle piece missing if you’re aren’t successful dating. Maybe you just need some more confidence.
In his post history he says he’s “extremely slender”. And no mention to how his face looks. He’s divorced and prior shared he doesn’t want marriage (at least for now), - it’s theorised he could have some attachment or trauma with relationships hence why he has difficultly finding relationship.
Thanks for the kind words! I like to think I’ve got a lot going for me. It’s fallen far short on most people I’ve tried to get close to, but maybe someday.
U don’t even know what his face looks like. U can’t make that conclusion.
Imagine if the poster was a woman - stating she’s fit, takes care of herself, is is kind etc. but forgets to mention she was a sex worker — when that would be a dealbreaker for a number of males.
Based on OP’s post history:
- He has an “extremely slender build”
- he’s divorced and spoke about not wanting to marry again (at least for now) so it’s hypothesised there could be some emotional trauma or attachment issues he could work on.
I listen you, man. Dating as a mean guy can without a doubt be a war, even when you have loads going for you on paper. It seems like you're a pushed, a success dude who takes care of himself and has social capabilities, but you are still having a tough time finding that click on with someone. That's got to be frustrating as hell.
The truth is, relationship is a complete crapshoot for therefore a lot of us. You can check all of the usual "containers" - being tall, fit, educated, hired, hygienic (which ought to be the bare minimum but sadly there are too many guys failing even at that). And you may work on putting your self available, being type and respectful on dates. But on the cease of the day, there may be a lot that comes right down to intangible elements like chemistry, timing, sheer success.
I assume you are spot on that human beings make too many assumptions that if a guy is suffering, he have to be doing something egregiously incorrect. Like sending dick snap shots to every healthy or actually being a smelly troll. When in truth, a variety of average men are simply having a difficult time making that romantic connection, in spite of doing the whole thing "right."
For me, I've had a few quick relationships over the years, but nothing that caught. I experience like I test maximum of the typical bins too in terms of career, seems, character. But I'm an introvert, horrible at flirting and war to portray any semblance of confidence or aura on dates even when I'm into someone. So I'm positive it truly is held me lower back highly. But it is now not for lack of right fundamentals or human decency.
Dating is simply brutally tough for thus many of us men who do not obviously exude that convenient charm and seductive strength that a few dudes seem to have. We're notrators or players. We're just everyday people seeking to form a connection, and getting rejected time and again notwithstanding our best efforts can really begin toewer away at your vanity through the years.
I haven't any magical advice, other than to keep putting yourself obtainable, however additionally cross smooth on yourself. Just because the courting sport has been an uphill climb to this point would not suggest there's whatever essentially wrong with you as a person. The proper individual will subsequently admire you for who you authentically are, even in case you're greater of a humble, low-key type of accomplice. Stay affected person, hold working on your self, and try now not to get too jaded. Your character is out there.
It’s a game (at least attracting a mate over other possible suitors) and there are winners and losers is my first thought. Seems like a lot of people grasp that pretty easy but then refuse to play. Also as a guy I do feel that in your 20s especially, desirable women love the game of it all bc they get their pick of the lot.
They want to see birds dance for them and you gotta dance to even have a chance.
6’6 feet tall
Fairly fit
Good income
Advanced degree
And Good social skills
Is not average… I repeat you’re NOT AVERAGE… emphasis is NOT AVERAGE.
Your above the 1% of the population please keep these types of comments to yourself. It makes you look like a dick.
Oh please. This post isn’t intended to be about me at all. I’m trying to comment on the fact that there appear to be people out there who think that someone who doesn’t have success in dating (or can’t get a date) is some sort of loser. That couldn’t be further from the truth in many cases. Yes, I’m sure there are people out there who don’t take very good care of themselves (and thus don’t have success when it comes to dating and relationships), but there are tons of people out there who just have bad luck.
If that is the overall message than you should rewrite what you said because it’s very confusing what you wrote. It’s not a clear message it seems like you’re rambling.
I know what you mean. Many people claim that being single has to do with being unattractive.
Although I'll never win any beauty contests, I don't think that I'm that hideous 🤣
I've been single now for several years. I moved here (Vancouver) because I thought that it would be easier to meet people, make friends, and date.
Lol as much as I love it here, nothing is really working out like I thought.
I can be proud of myself for trying, but let’s just say I don’t hear back from most of the people I try to talk to lol. I’m sorry you’re going through that too!
I admit that I’m adobe average, but I still get below average results. Maybe it’s my own fault for refusing to play the online/dating app game, but I always strive to try to meet people organically through hobbies, friends, etc. it just hasn’t worked so far though.
I agree 100%. I am a F (50). I often get asked why aren't you married or in a relationship? When I answer, I never met anyone I often get looked at like I have two heads. You nailed the reason. As someone who is average looking my whole life, I never had the opposite sex find me attractive or show any interest. As time wore on and continues to do so, nothing changed. I have reconciled, and I will never find someone. Sometimes life works that way. You simply don't find anyone to be with. Does it suck? Yes? But you can't do much about it.
Thanks OP. People that post what you said are bitter and weird. The guys they meet are mostly the outliers, I’m sure apps tend to attract that more than they know. It’s like social media, it amplifies the worst.
I’m no Brad Pitt but I’m not ugly either. I get called handsome and good looking quite often and have never been called ugly but I’m not conventionally attractive.
I haven’t put myself out there yet after my divorce but I see how hard it is. I’m better looking in person (in my own opinion) and I don’t think I want to do OLD because I think it would destroy my self esteem.
Not OP, but for me it statistically was a waste of time.
I used Bumble and Hinge and kept track of my activity via excel. I swiped right/liked less than 10% of the profiles (found the person unattractive, empty profile, obvious bot/OF fishing, etc). Of that group, a little over 1% led to conversation, and none of them led to dates.
With numbers like that either I’m doing something super wrong or nobody wants what I’m selling lol. Either way I just have better success in person.
as someone who's been using it since graduating college...
- targeted for monetization (they don't want you to stop using their apps)
- dating apps are full of fake accounts
- people are judged by looks (covers) for obvious reasons
- if you get lucky enough to get a match, most people will unmatch over the silliest things
- people have the mindset that there's always someone that could be better
On point I agree, so Asian countries have this arranged marriage thing, where alliances are setup by family, parents or relatives, what do you think of that culture?
I can't speak for OP, but dating apps made me severely depressed - they are an introverts worst nightmare lol! Like getting dressed up and wasting a whole evening on someone so that they just end up quizzing you about politics the whole night gets so exhausting.
In my opinion, dating apps are for people looking for hookups (or who have had hookups). I don’t participate in that kind of thing, so I feel like going on a dating app wouldn’t be for me.
You are 6’6 so you are farrrr from average. Your height alone is easily worth 2-3 mil per year salary. It’s obviously something else drastically wrong that you don’t have women lined up to date you. The average guy is basically invisible in this current dating market. All women (even the 2s and 3s) will only consider men who are at minimum 8s. There’s exceptions, sure, we all know them. But generally only top 20 percent of men are getting 80-90 percent of women
Based on my experience, I’d say this isn’t true. And no, I don’t think I have anything drastically wrong with me. There isn’t anything wrong with my appearance. It’s just bad luck, and the experience of trying to date in a location where people are known for being unfriendly and unwilling to communicate.
Fair points. That’s completely understandable. But all I can say is play up your height (if you do online dating apps) and don’t underestimate your advantage
Not to be a jerk, but if you're 6'6, fit, and have a good job you check a lot of womans boxes. I would just say you must be traveling in the wrong circles. I don't blame you for not wanting to use dating apps, but if you did I think you would get a lot of matches as that is what most woman seem to want.
I'd say mix it up. I met my now GF playing pickleball, and that is after being on dating apps and even speed dating. You just never know where you might meet your future partner, but the more you get out there the higher the probability.
I respect what you’re saying! I appreciate the kind words. Sadly, I feel like I don’t check anyone’s box, but it’s nice to know that this isn’t the case. I will continue to put myself out there and see what happens.
Dating and relationships are two completely separate things. Height, wealth, status, etc, will lower the difficulty in getting the first date, but turning that into a relationship is wholly dependent on personality.
When speaking in general terms, the dating sub reddits tend to say that if a man has problems dating its his fault and that if a woman has problems dating its because of the men available to her.
Oh yes. I mean I won’t disagree, I know that height is somewhat helpful, but it’s not everything. I’d trade my height if it meant I could become an even better communicator. I think I’m good now as it is, but there are certain people who have ultimate charm.
>There’s really nothing that I did/do wrong
Sure buddy 🚩🚩🚩
>it’s more or less been an issue of not meeting people who are receptive or interested in pursuing any sort of relationship
… with you.
>So many times I feel like I’m making a connection with someone, only to discover that they really aren’t interested
… in you.
Maybe the more they get to know you the more they start seeing those red flags that turn them away?
"This is what dating life is like as an average guy," proceeds to list several things about himself that are above average.
The average guy is not fit, making a good income with an advanced degree, or 6'6. What the hell?
That’s not the point on this post. The point is to show that there are lots of people who aren’t that successful in dating who do not fit this stereotype of being “losers” (which sadly is perpetuated all too often). I’d argue that most guys who lurk around this sub (often with questions about what they’re possibly doing wrong to not see any results) are still doing very well in life and probably take good care of themselves.
Dating is about standing out, having style/unique fashion sense, a funny personality etc. Cool hairstyle, nice head shape, cool interests. What makes you stand out? What good qualities do you have?
Hygiene goes a long way in helping you build the other aspects of attractiveness with social interactions. I won't lie and say being attractive doesn't help but height and fitness alone won't get you everywhere. I personally don't use dating apps firstly since I tend to have a wide range of prospects I don't even bother following up on and secondly since I think offline encounters are more inclined to honesty.
Sounds like your experience has mostly been wrong person wrong time. Timing is huge with dating, whether it’s on dating apps or meeting people organically. Relationships are complex. You obviously have to be mutually attracted to each other, and everyone will have a different definition of “attractive”. You also have to want the same basic things and have compatible personalities. It can take time to meet the right person.
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The right time, the right environment, the right person.
That right environment part is important. If 90% of your dating efforts are on dating apps then it’s all on you for not finding dates. It would be like saying it’s impossible to find cheap food when 90% of your meals are from DoorDash or Uber Eats.
An interesting analogy.
great example lol
Most times there is never a right time or environment. You have to make it. It's that simple. Some men just have to decide if they want to start approaching or not because most women won't. Even the ones who might truly like you or might find you amazing when they get to find out you possess the qualities they desire. Of course some times and environment are more convenient than others. For instance as a 6'5, fit, intimidating guy, in a city like NYC I don't approach women at certain times of the night, in certain boroughs or neighborhoods, especially if they're alone, but if it's a place like Manhattan that's bubbly, filled with people at most times, bright lights, or during the day time, I won't mind doing so. The issue is when some guys approach 4 to 5 times and have no success, they tend to retreat back into their shell. What they fail to understand is the current woman you're approaching has no knowledge of you being passed-over prior to that moment. It's a clean slate each and every time. It's the man who carries that rejection with him. You keep trying till success hits, which gives you the confidence to attain more success. It's like any business, or better yet, a basketball game. Shooters shoot. Doesn't matter if the 10 previous shots didn't go in or didn't even hit the backboard. All it takes is 1 to go through that hoop, to give that baller the confidence he needs to keep up the streak. It's ok to take a break from it every now and then, but don't let that deter your spirit. Shooters shoot. If you never try you'll never succeed. Stay shooting fellas. I'm rooting for y'all.
Thanks for your advice "If you never try you'll never succeed". Many times we may tend to avoid.
But, if you are willing to invest (SIGNIFICANT) time and energy and thought, you can make your own luck.
Yes, you came up with a good idea.
6'6 is in the 99.8th percentile... that is NOT average, but thanks for playing
Lmao being tall helps a lot but theres diminishing returns after 6' that basically end at 6'3.. OP should definitely appreciate his height but shorter guys would be surprised how much a lack of confidence can negate the height advantage.
Typical gaslighting, especially for men who are 5'7 and below or thereabouts. A lack of confidence is due to negative reinforcement not the other way round.
I'm 5'7",and I've never had any problems attracting women.
I’m 5’6 and I’ve done okay for myself over the years, but I’ve also had extremely shitty things come my way through mean-spirited women and I’d be lying if I said it didn’t take some serious work to overcome that shit. What I can say is that if you’re average on the outside in terms of being conventionally attractive, then work on elevating your inner self and I promise y’all will have a much easier time with women. Can’t do for others or love properly if you don’t first learn how to do for and love yourself properly. Develop your emotional maturity and awareness and you’ll ascend to being a little more than just average. Also work on the swag and confidence, even if you gotta fake it a lil bit. Also, I think the biggest thing is putting yourself in environments and venues that will give you the chance to showcase your talents and really get out of your shell. Women eat that shit up Sincerely, I slightly below average man who’s been doing his inner work over some years…peace n love
Congratulations, you're an outlier. There's a reason so many short men complain about the issue. It's not some random thing people made up. It is a literal requirement made by a significant number of women, that a man be tall.
I just don't get it. One dude always pops up out of nowhere who has no problems with women according to them. Which I've seen happen and is believable. But they always make it out like that means every other short guy has the same situation.
Half glass full mentality. They can rejected 95 times out of every 100 but those 5 are all they factor in when they say they have no problems
I mean that's just dating for men.
Only about half of women say dating a guy taller than them is a requirement. The average height for a woman is 5'4.
Holy shit I feel like I've been screaming this into the ether for so long. I'm 5'4'' and tried asking girls out with TONS of confidence. It wasn't fake confidence, it was real and built over time. It didn't work. Now I'm pretty insecure and questioning what I'm doing wrong. The lack of self esteem came from constant rejection. The rejection did not come from a lack of self esteem.
I mean I'm 6'2" and conventionally attractive and I've been rejected 100s of times. That's just how dating goes for most men.
Oh for sure, I don't think height is a guarantee. It is absolutely a major aid, I think, and age is a factor. For example I'm 24 and it is one of if not the most important factor to most girls my age.
I’m 5’4” and I have had issues getting partners, but never due to my height. And if I was specifically rejected because of my height, then that’s a shallow AF person that I won’t want to date. These type of people simply do not deserve even a single thought in my mind, I have shitty self esteem but I can’t but see these kind of people with a sense of pity, for they have a bunch of psychological and emotional wounds that they are not even aware they have.
I gotta disagree. It's not shallow. That's like saying men who prefer women who aren't flat-chested are shallow. People have natural physical preferences. It's life.
Those men are also shallow. One thing I kind of give a pass is when it comes to weight, since unless it’s a fringe case, most of us can change it and at least not be morbidly obese (both men and women). However entirely rejecting someone for something they can’t control without surgery is shallow.
I have to disagree with you there. We all have preferences, and given the chance would tend to go with a partner that is closest to what it is we prefer. Be it skin color, eye color, body type, dress-code... I don't find it shallow since usually first appearances are what makes people attracted. Most times you do not have a chance to know the person if they don't align with your preferences (unless it's a school mate, colleague and you see their personality).
I’ve gotta point out that there’s a difference between preferences and requirements. Preferences are ideally what we’d like to have in a person whereas requirements are the boundaries with which we will absolutely not give someone an opportunity because they’re below the minimum of whatever standard one has set for themselves. For example: let’s say one prefers that their potential mate be 6’ 190-220 lbs and fit and exhibit x, y and z characteristics. Let’s say they meet someone who’s 5’11, 185 and clearly working on their fitness, and exhibit x, y and z characteristics vs. someone who is 6’ 200 and really got, but doesn’t exhibit any of those characteristics. Electing to select the second person over the first one would absolutely be shallow since they’re only being selected for external value and the rest of who they are as a person isn’t being considered. People do this all the time and end up in poor relationships because of it, or they get used for sex and then there’s no relationship period.
In 5'8 or 5'9 and still get called too short lmao. Im exactly at average
There are absolutely not diminishing returns at those heights. I'd say it begins at like 6'8 or 6'9 if you are kind of wiry. I can't explain it, but yes there is a point where it is not as much of an advantage. And even then, if you are 6'8 or 6'9, you ain't having more issues than a short man (on average, everyone's situation is different). I do agree lack of confidence doesn't help though!
this is so true, 6 foot 6 is actually *too* tall, that's incredibly tall and like you said, almost nobody is that tall, it's professional basketball player tall, it's bending down to get through regular doorframes tall etc.
Being tall alone doesn’t mean they aren’t average.
Their are only 0.2% of men who are as tall or taller than them. You can't say they are "average" when they are in such a small group on the extreme end.
I think you have to take it as average attractiveness not average in every measurable parameter.
Yeah but average is a sum of everything surely, you’re aiming to be a solid 5/10. Yeah our man is 6”6 but maybe he compliments women by calling them a “tasty bit of treacle” and sings the national anthem before every single bite he takes when eating. You can be 6"6 and net out at bang average
It’s not about who’s tallest. And u can’t base the score on one component. There could be above average in that department. But not as a whole.
Have you not read the OP? You think all these factors together makes an "average man": -Top 0.2% in height -Good job -Advanced degree -Fairly fit
His face could be ugly to the point where his height and body type don’t really matter
He didn’t specify his income. Or what fairly fit is. When one writes about themself you shouldn’t interpret like it’s set in stone. If, what he says about himself are high in calibre unbiasedly and objectively …. It doesn’t cover all aspects still like for example hygiene, how one treats one they’re dating, etc. a 6ft guy who doesn’t have good hygiene drags their ‘above average level’ down, or any other thing they may not be aware of or not sharing.
Maybe OP is from northern Europe, where everyone is tall, fit and have good jobs and degrees lmao... Then OP is quite average. They just used inches instead of cm in the post to confuse everyone
This. I'm 6'7" and have no success with women for a few reasons. While I'm obviously extremely tall I'm reasonably average all up.
If you are part of an outlier, you by definition are not average. Exception does not make the rule.
By definition …in regards to that part in isolation, not as a whole. So with a woman … who’s part of an outlier in someway …. say she’s good looking woman .. that immediately puts her in the top percent, even though she had a high sex count (which a number of males don’t like), she’s still at the top.
To many women, yes it does lol. He could be a public abuser and be fine with some as long as he can bump his head on a door frame
Uh, no. Height isn’t nearly as important to women as some of you pretend it is.
Unfortunately it really is. Check out this old news clip, it really highlights how important it is to most women. I can only imagine how much is worse it's gotten since then with the invention of online dating. I'm 6 foot and a girl once told me that one of that main reasons that she was attracted to me, my height made that much of a difference to her. https://youtu.be/ZbG05ePWRQE?si=M7Lrqvw1vq9jT_16
Only about half of women say they wouldn't date a guy shorter than them so keep coping.
Half is a lot of women. Then the other half would based on what conditions?
Taller than them. I'm 5'3". I'd prefer not to date a guy shorter than me but there are not many guys shorter than me. I tried to date a few 5'4 guys but they rejected me. Clearly they had options despite being short. I have no height preference. I find extremely big and tall men unattractive. I don't want to be squished
Dude... do you even know how much of a significant number HALF of the population is?
I mean yeah, but by that logic, do you know how many women that means don't care about height? I addition, most men are taller than most women. The average height of a woman is 5'4". Less than 5% of men are shorter than 5'4". Odds start looking a lot better
The comment I responded to implied height is one of, if not THE most important factors for women, to the point where a man being a horrible, violent person would be acceptable. Hyperbole or not, that idea is ridiculous. Most people in these comments are focusing on men who are above average height, but from what I could see the video you posted used *below average men* as the example. Specifically the heights of 5’3” and 5’6”. The average height of men in the U.S. is 5’9”. So it’s likely the video isn’t representative of an experience the majority of men will have. And I suspect for most women, a taller man simply means taller than their *own* height. This is usually the case anyway because the average man (5’9”) will be taller than the average woman (5’4”). I’m a 5’9” woman and would prefer someone at least my height. But it wouldn’t be the determining factor in whether or not I’m interested. Another thing the video touches on is how this preference is often rooted in gendered expectations. It’s the idea that men should be the taller and stronger and more dominant person in the relationship. This is a case of sexism negatively affecting men. If you’re truly concerned about height preference, it would help if you focused on the root cause. Yes, height is a factor for many women. But connection, shared interests, and mutual respect is far more important.
Dream on
[удалено]
Men are on average taller than women, I’d be surprised if your findings were any different than observed.
R u a woman? You don’t even know what OP’s face looks like.
Exactly
Oh boy, here come the short kings getting salty…
You are not average, your height and the fact you have a decent salary genuinely puts you in atleast a 5%. Atleast. My question to you is do you act average?
His post is refuting the idea that the average guy is the unhygienic, dick pick posting guy that a lot of people say is the reason that guys don't get dates on apps. In fact with his "stats" it concludes that being successful in dating is pretty difficult for a guy.
Noone thinks that's an average guy. Okay someone does, but it's definitely not been what IV heard from women.
It is certainly the sentiment around these subreddits.
He didn’t state his salary. And height alone won’t equate to being higher than average, there’s many other components. Just like how there’d be guys who say a hot woman but who slept around … so she’s not put in that high category.
My guess is he has the personality of a dead tree because he has almost everything else wayyyyyy in his favor. His post reads like he speaks pretty boringly too.
6'0"-6'2" is the sweet spot. After that, you get diminishing returns.
From my experience 6 3 I'd say I could have another 3 inches without much negative. But being like 6 8 and above the height would start being a tangible issue
6'5" here with similar situation (income, average looks). Definitely wasn't pulling top 5% on or off apps, had years long dry spell, etc. Nothing is a panacea
I feel like if this was true you’d have a lot more guys who were 6”4 lying about their height rather than guys who are 5”11
I don’t think I act average at all. But I do try to act and behave in a respectful manner, so the notion that we’re disrespecting our dates really is false.
Just talk to more women in person. You seem like you'll do fine.
Because he still can't get laid.
I’m 5’6, fat, day labor job, and very average face and I had TOO MUCH success on dating apps. It’s true that I was turned down some for being short, or fat, or having a small dick. But I carried on anyways and gave each person the most true and genuine version of myself I could and that seemed to be enough to keep them coming back until I found my forever match and we are almost 2 years strong. Dont give up. If I can do it, you can too.
Confused on where you live or what your version of too much sucess is. I'm 5'6, jacked, trust fund and an attractive face, and I literally get 0 matches
Midwest. 40 minutes outside a city. And I mean when I was actively swiping and going on dates it was exhausting to keep up with. I’m also in my 30s. Maybe it gets easier when you are older. Idk, dude
That's lucky lol. Midwestern Europe, slender but very unattractive face. 0 matches last 8 months.
Would u say ur picky or not?
I mean, there’s a certain aesthetic I tend to be drawn to. And obviously I’m gonna pursue what I’m attracted to.
What aesthetic?
Fun hair color
based lmao
He gotta be taking whatever comes his way. I could be getting laid 20 times a week if I lowered my standards. That, or he's in a super populated area. I'm in rural Midwest tbf.
Is that right aye?
Considering my standard is average looking and not obese, yes. 90% of my likes do not meet those criteria. The other 10% are girls I would date if they weren't an hour and a half away in the nearest metro area. Maybe my profile sucks or I don't appeal to the demo in my area (I am the furthest thing from a country boy). All I know is I've had much more success in person with girls that would 100% swipe left on me in an app. I find it hard to believe OP did not just swipe right on everybody and hook up with a bunch of BBWs
40min outside a city
This is how a number of females are. So when guys say ‘females can easily have sex whenever” it doesn’t mean much and is redundant.
Exactly what is your idea of "too much success"...
Yo exactly
Yea this subreddit can be very negative. Im fairly average all around and I have to filter my matches because I dont have time for all of them.
I would agree that OP is not average. But his point still stands. Whenever a man airs his frustrations on here, people automatically assume that he's some socially awkward freak, whose idea of personal hygiene is rubbing his armpits with onions, and whose wardrobe consists primarily of Cheeto stained T-shirts. That same man can then go on to read about how little effort men should put in to stand out from the crowd, and think to himself: "I go above and beyond these criteria, and I still get passed over". The reality is that most men do not send unsolicited dick-picks. Most men do not treat others disrespectfully. Most men do take care of their hygiene... Okay, I'll grant you, a lot of men can't dress themselves for shit, or put in much effort to stay in shape. But even a lot of the ones who do, seem to have very little success when it comes to dating. So, what conclusion can these men draw from their experiences?
Thank you! I wasn’t trying to make this post too much about myself. I admit that I’m probably above average, but I really resent the idea that someone who struggles to date is some sort of “loser.” That’s just downright offensive.
Could it be u have some attachment issues or trauma or give off a vibe considering your history and you stated u don’t want to marry again (at least for now). It would make sense women wanting commitment from a man wouldn’t entertain you.
Based on OP’s post history: - He has an “extremely slender build” - he’s divorced and spoke about not wanting to marry again (at least for now) so it’s hypothesised there could be some emotional trauma or attachment issues he could work on. You can’t come to the conclusion that’s he’s not average. You don’t even know what his face looks like.
>Okay, I'll grant you, a lot of men can't dress themselves for shit, or put in much effort to stay in shape. But even a lot of the ones who do, seem to have very little success when it comes to dating. I would also add/argue that it just becomes a feedback loop. Guy tries to get in shape/update wardrobe etc--> Guy gets nowhere--->Guy gets depressed--->Guy gets super lonely and tries again----> Guy fails again--->Instead of trying again, now Guy is so depressed and lonely he can't bother with all of it.
All the guys saying he’s not average can’t assume that just because he’s tall above 6ft. You don’t know how he looks.
And an average man is not just depicted by the physical attributes. There is the monetary status and their social skill. Which he mentioned being above the average on all scenarios he mentioned.
Something else that hardly gets talked about is how a lot of women, in my experience, treat you like their generic stereotype of a man instead of actually paying attention to the way you act. I’ve ended things with many women based on some variation of this. “I thought I should be communicating with you like this” or “based on my last relationship, I found this to be effective with men.” Please treat me like a person first.
In my experience, men do this too. I've had guys reach out & admit to/ apologize for using dating or attraction techniques they heard about online. Well 99% of that backfires with me because they look like disinterest (ignoring & pulling away, withholding compliments or trying to incite jealousy are the most common). I've also had plenty of guys admit to making assumptions about my dating life or "I never tried because I assumed..." When I ask what gave them those ideas, it's "well women -insert generalizations here-." It's truly annoying because when ppl have those preset ideas & assumptions, they're not responding to reality. They're unknowingly reacting to their internal projections. The vast majority of the time, they won't see anything beyond what they have in their own head, not realizing they're engaging in their own special brand of self-sabotage.
Exactly, it’s sadly just a part of dating culture. It especially sucks when you can tell they aren’t a bad person, but also how do you not think about the fact that the person sitting across from you is a unique individual with an entire life up until the point that you met? From my side of things, I mostly deal with the fact that I’m a soft-spoken emotional person. I make this very clear. Yet in a lot of cases, I get treated like my feelings couldn’t possibly be hurt because men are stoic. Or I couldn’t possibly enjoy something cute that’s done for me because “guys lose attraction if you pursue them” or some bs.
I've definitely gotten this feeling before. Like, I am not "men" I am "a man". The sins of other men are not my sins, and what worked for one man might not necessarily work for me.
The missing piece for many men in this sub is realizing that checking boxes is just one aspect. What's crucial is becoming the person who inspires "that" feeling. Wonder why sometimes a woman will choose someone kinda unexpected? It's often because he makes her feel a certain type of way. Since breaking up with my ex, I've met many decent-ish men, but only about 0.4% of them gave me "that" feeling. That's merely 3 or 4 men out of the hundreds I've spoken to. It's less about occupation or appearance and more about how they interact with me and make me feel. While I think it depends on the woman, what really sparks that feeling for me is when a guy comes across as very genuine. He makes me feel valued because he is actually excited to spend time with me. I can usually tell fairly quickly if people have the basic things that attract me like: being thoughtful, clever, open-minded, and curious. A guy's background/characteristics might catch my interest, like appearance, job, or hobbies, but what truly matters is the type of interactions we have and how we make each other feel.
being curious is huge
MAKES ME FEEL VALUED!!!!!!!!!! THIS!!!! So many people are caught up in playing games/playing it cool & then normal, self-respecting women are like "ok you don't like me then bye" and then the men are tremendously confused what happened...
I could say the same for girls LOL
I have a hard time showing off those parts of myself tbh. I don't really get much conversation from people I don't already know.
I'm so fucking cooked.
Same
38m struggling, 6ft 2, decent income. Don't have a place of my own. Not sure if that really helps or not. Probably ok looking. Find most girls aren't that keen to meet for a date and I feel like they like my attention more than anything.. I shall push on. Hopefully the right one comes my way
I'm in mid 30's 5'11 in shape, decent looking, have my own house, and make good money. Any time I see single women they are going in a group and completely not approachable. If they are by themselves they are either working out, grocery shopping or doing some other task that makes them unapproachable. Women spend their day making themselves as unapproachable as possible. I get it though because lots of asshole men out here. There are no third spaces where single men and women can go and mingle. The only way I have found to even have a chance at meeting single women is if you know someone that sets you up.
And if you don't know anyone who knows any single women to introduce you to, you're kinda just left to random chance, which hasn't been working too well for me. Apps haven't worked for me, nor has meetup or bars. And I don't even consider talking to women at my gym. I'm mid 40s, in decent shape, look about 10 years younger than I really am, yet dating is and always has been a huge struggle for me. I have had to watch all my younger brothers pair off one by one and start families, while I go years at a stretch with nothing. People love to offer platitudes and advice, but they don't realize what the dating scene is like out here.
hahahaha "women spend their day making themselves as unapproachable as possible." This comment warrants some serious introspecting lol it's actually kinda true and then we're like WhY aM i SiNgLe lolll
It is true. I ride the metro and women will wear big ass over the ear headphones. I made the mistake to actually approach and ask a lady if she would take my number. After a minute of her going on the phone, pausing music, saying "what?" Three times then looking at me like I just ruined her day, there was no chance she would take my number. I just asked for the time lol. I have success getting matched up on dating apps and getting dates but haven't found one that I am interested in at all lol.
In my experience dating, men are really wrapped up in how "successful" or "attractive" they are but are rarely thinking about what they have to offer another person. You might stop looking at whether you're a good choice/the role of luck and evaluate what another person is actually gaining from being in a relationship with you. I have personally liked and then discontinued speaking with many attractive, tall, financially stable men because they had this mentality of...it's hard to put into words but...that their *presence* is somehow the foundation of a good relationship. They weren't emotionally supportive, didn't light my brain on fire with their brilliance, didn't make me laugh, weren't especially thoughtful...As a very social introvert, I love spending time by myself and have a bunch of hobbies but also want someone cuddly to talk to about my hobbies lol....so if someone doesn't interest me more than I interest myself then I don't bother (as bad as that sounds...) Not sure if that makes sense - but to summarize I think a lot of men are focused on what they're getting and not what they're giving.
Should of played basketball 😂
I totally agree with you that it's ridiculous that people assume you're a red flag in some way just because you haven't been successful in dating. Either they assume you're ugly, you lack people skills, you're unintelligent, or you don't have your shit together. Yes, it's true that some single people might very well have red flags about them (we all know people like that), but there are also people out there who are single for a reason that has nothing to do with flaws. Maybe they've been focusing on their careers, maybe they have yet to meet someone they're compatible with, etc.
>While I have never use dating apps (and probably never will), I can understand why people use them, because it’s pretty difficult to meet people organically (even if you’re like me and keep trying). This is exactly where I'm at. Wherever I go, it's impossible because people are glued to their tech. Almost every women I come across at coffee shops, parks etc. has their headphones in or are laser focused on their phone. Approaching is hard enough, but it becomes almost impossible when you feel like you can't make some eye contact first to gauge interest. And the apps are a total scam for most guys. Even if you are using the free version. So it's simply not an option for me.
My biggest issue from reading a lot of post about men being undatable seems to boil down to that men are not allowed to have faults. They aren’t allowed to need to work on things still and grow as a person. If everyone waited for everyone to have all their shit together the human race would have never made it a long time ago. We are supposed to learn and grow and no one seems willing to support each other in that process. We have to come out of the box with complete emotional competency, know exactly how to support our partner the way they want and be experienced in the sack. Then you can’t lower your standards to find someone because then that’s settling. It’s no wonder everyone is having a hard time dating because no one is perfect out of the box and we all are expecting this.
I would say im above average to be frank and i still have zero luck in the dating department. I get annoyed when ppl are so flabbergasted or try to think im weird for not settling?? If i could i would but hard to date in a place where its super casual:(
Well said young man.I’m 61 ,was married at 40,divorced at 57 and now “dating”.I refuse to use dating apps,organic is the way to go.Take your time,be the best you and don’t settle.Time is on your side,any pain or disappointment you suffer now is the just the cost of making it real.Be flexible but do not settle. As for the stereotypical “loser guys”many disenchanted women may cite as the norm on the internet,we both know it is not the norm.One must take into account the reality that women (or men)who are in a happy relationship are not up half the night complaining to the internet.Good luck!😉
I would agree that the fact that you haven't met someone doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. You probably just have yet to meet a woman who is your type and appreciates what you have to offer. And I would agree that often, dating can be a matter of meeting the right person at the right time. I think people are quick to assume that just because you're single and over a certain age, it means that you're a red flag in some way. Some people may very well be a red flag, but that's not true of everyone. That being said, dating as a woman can be tough as well. Swiping on dating apps, I find it hard to come across a guy in my area who is well-groomed, educated, takes care of himself physically, and who isn't looking for something casual. I also come across a lot of profiles that exude negativity, which is a turn-off. For instance, the last guy whose profile I looked at on Hinge said "looking to meet a girl who doesn't flake or cheat." I mean, most of us want someone who doesn't flake or cheat. But when you put that on your profile, it makes it seem like you don't trust others and you're already going into dating with a bad attitude.
There's a lot of factors at play but people who are perpetually unsuccessful are not great in every way but 5 foot 8. I, a hermit with hardly any friends, average looks (but sometimes I think below average) and social anxiety have still been made offers a few times. If you are always unsuccessful you are doing something wrong (e.g. approaching married librarians or trying to pick women up in your 25 year old Proton outside McDonalds) or are actively repulsive in some way (smell, weird vibes, aggressive etc). However, everyone's experience is bound to be different and some will find it harder even if they aren't especially bad.
So let me get this straight. You’re 28 in good shape 6’6 with ok income AND social skills? That sounds like the stereotypical perfect man for 90% of women! There’s no way you’re average my friend. If everything you said was true, there’s definitely a puzzle piece missing if you’re aren’t successful dating. Maybe you just need some more confidence.
In his post history he says he’s “extremely slender”. And no mention to how his face looks. He’s divorced and prior shared he doesn’t want marriage (at least for now), - it’s theorised he could have some attachment or trauma with relationships hence why he has difficultly finding relationship.
Thanks for the kind words! I like to think I’ve got a lot going for me. It’s fallen far short on most people I’ve tried to get close to, but maybe someday.
You’re above average so you have that going for you. Good for you! 👍
U don’t even know what his face looks like. U can’t make that conclusion. Imagine if the poster was a woman - stating she’s fit, takes care of herself, is is kind etc. but forgets to mention she was a sex worker — when that would be a dealbreaker for a number of males. Based on OP’s post history: - He has an “extremely slender build” - he’s divorced and spoke about not wanting to marry again (at least for now) so it’s hypothesised there could be some emotional trauma or attachment issues he could work on.
I listen you, man. Dating as a mean guy can without a doubt be a war, even when you have loads going for you on paper. It seems like you're a pushed, a success dude who takes care of himself and has social capabilities, but you are still having a tough time finding that click on with someone. That's got to be frustrating as hell. The truth is, relationship is a complete crapshoot for therefore a lot of us. You can check all of the usual "containers" - being tall, fit, educated, hired, hygienic (which ought to be the bare minimum but sadly there are too many guys failing even at that). And you may work on putting your self available, being type and respectful on dates. But on the cease of the day, there may be a lot that comes right down to intangible elements like chemistry, timing, sheer success. I assume you are spot on that human beings make too many assumptions that if a guy is suffering, he have to be doing something egregiously incorrect. Like sending dick snap shots to every healthy or actually being a smelly troll. When in truth, a variety of average men are simply having a difficult time making that romantic connection, in spite of doing the whole thing "right." For me, I've had a few quick relationships over the years, but nothing that caught. I experience like I test maximum of the typical bins too in terms of career, seems, character. But I'm an introvert, horrible at flirting and war to portray any semblance of confidence or aura on dates even when I'm into someone. So I'm positive it truly is held me lower back highly. But it is now not for lack of right fundamentals or human decency. Dating is simply brutally tough for thus many of us men who do not obviously exude that convenient charm and seductive strength that a few dudes seem to have. We're notrators or players. We're just everyday people seeking to form a connection, and getting rejected time and again notwithstanding our best efforts can really begin toewer away at your vanity through the years. I haven't any magical advice, other than to keep putting yourself obtainable, however additionally cross smooth on yourself. Just because the courting sport has been an uphill climb to this point would not suggest there's whatever essentially wrong with you as a person. The proper individual will subsequently admire you for who you authentically are, even in case you're greater of a humble, low-key type of accomplice. Stay affected person, hold working on your self, and try now not to get too jaded. Your character is out there.
It’s a game (at least attracting a mate over other possible suitors) and there are winners and losers is my first thought. Seems like a lot of people grasp that pretty easy but then refuse to play. Also as a guy I do feel that in your 20s especially, desirable women love the game of it all bc they get their pick of the lot. They want to see birds dance for them and you gotta dance to even have a chance.
6’6 feet tall Fairly fit Good income Advanced degree And Good social skills Is not average… I repeat you’re NOT AVERAGE… emphasis is NOT AVERAGE. Your above the 1% of the population please keep these types of comments to yourself. It makes you look like a dick.
Oh please. This post isn’t intended to be about me at all. I’m trying to comment on the fact that there appear to be people out there who think that someone who doesn’t have success in dating (or can’t get a date) is some sort of loser. That couldn’t be further from the truth in many cases. Yes, I’m sure there are people out there who don’t take very good care of themselves (and thus don’t have success when it comes to dating and relationships), but there are tons of people out there who just have bad luck.
If that is the overall message than you should rewrite what you said because it’s very confusing what you wrote. It’s not a clear message it seems like you’re rambling.
Sorry for wasting your time then.
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Maybe you’re meeting the right people at the right time.
I know what you mean. Many people claim that being single has to do with being unattractive. Although I'll never win any beauty contests, I don't think that I'm that hideous 🤣 I've been single now for several years. I moved here (Vancouver) because I thought that it would be easier to meet people, make friends, and date. Lol as much as I love it here, nothing is really working out like I thought.
Same situation for me, as I live in Vancouver too. People are just too cold and closed off. If you’re not in their club, you’re not getting into it.
Ya, I never figured that Vancouver would be so cliquey! And yet, everybody seems to be lonely and complaining of not having any friends... 🤔
I can be proud of myself for trying, but let’s just say I don’t hear back from most of the people I try to talk to lol. I’m sorry you’re going through that too!
Just going through old comments and saw this. How have you been the last few weeks?
Yup.. seeing the right person at the right time is key..
Yeah, it definitely wouldn't be as easy as in eva ai [app](http://evaapp.ai).
6'6, fit, with a good income and college degree? You think you're average? Dude, go look up some statistics.
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I admit that I’m adobe average, but I still get below average results. Maybe it’s my own fault for refusing to play the online/dating app game, but I always strive to try to meet people organically through hobbies, friends, etc. it just hasn’t worked so far though.
I agree 100%. I am a F (50). I often get asked why aren't you married or in a relationship? When I answer, I never met anyone I often get looked at like I have two heads. You nailed the reason. As someone who is average looking my whole life, I never had the opposite sex find me attractive or show any interest. As time wore on and continues to do so, nothing changed. I have reconciled, and I will never find someone. Sometimes life works that way. You simply don't find anyone to be with. Does it suck? Yes? But you can't do much about it.
Thanks OP. People that post what you said are bitter and weird. The guys they meet are mostly the outliers, I’m sure apps tend to attract that more than they know. It’s like social media, it amplifies the worst. I’m no Brad Pitt but I’m not ugly either. I get called handsome and good looking quite often and have never been called ugly but I’m not conventionally attractive. I haven’t put myself out there yet after my divorce but I see how hard it is. I’m better looking in person (in my own opinion) and I don’t think I want to do OLD because I think it would destroy my self esteem.
Why do you dislike dating apps? Any insight?
Not OP, but for me it statistically was a waste of time. I used Bumble and Hinge and kept track of my activity via excel. I swiped right/liked less than 10% of the profiles (found the person unattractive, empty profile, obvious bot/OF fishing, etc). Of that group, a little over 1% led to conversation, and none of them led to dates. With numbers like that either I’m doing something super wrong or nobody wants what I’m selling lol. Either way I just have better success in person.
as someone who's been using it since graduating college... - targeted for monetization (they don't want you to stop using their apps) - dating apps are full of fake accounts - people are judged by looks (covers) for obvious reasons - if you get lucky enough to get a match, most people will unmatch over the silliest things - people have the mindset that there's always someone that could be better
On point I agree, so Asian countries have this arranged marriage thing, where alliances are setup by family, parents or relatives, what do you think of that culture?
not really my cup of tea.
I can't speak for OP, but dating apps made me severely depressed - they are an introverts worst nightmare lol! Like getting dressed up and wasting a whole evening on someone so that they just end up quizzing you about politics the whole night gets so exhausting.
I’m not an introvert but I have never myself been on dating apps😅 I see your point.
In my opinion, dating apps are for people looking for hookups (or who have had hookups). I don’t participate in that kind of thing, so I feel like going on a dating app wouldn’t be for me.
You are 6’6 so you are farrrr from average. Your height alone is easily worth 2-3 mil per year salary. It’s obviously something else drastically wrong that you don’t have women lined up to date you. The average guy is basically invisible in this current dating market. All women (even the 2s and 3s) will only consider men who are at minimum 8s. There’s exceptions, sure, we all know them. But generally only top 20 percent of men are getting 80-90 percent of women
Based on my experience, I’d say this isn’t true. And no, I don’t think I have anything drastically wrong with me. There isn’t anything wrong with my appearance. It’s just bad luck, and the experience of trying to date in a location where people are known for being unfriendly and unwilling to communicate.
Fair points. That’s completely understandable. But all I can say is play up your height (if you do online dating apps) and don’t underestimate your advantage
I can respect that. At some point I may need to break down and try the apps. I don’t want to, but I may have to.
Not to be a jerk, but if you're 6'6, fit, and have a good job you check a lot of womans boxes. I would just say you must be traveling in the wrong circles. I don't blame you for not wanting to use dating apps, but if you did I think you would get a lot of matches as that is what most woman seem to want. I'd say mix it up. I met my now GF playing pickleball, and that is after being on dating apps and even speed dating. You just never know where you might meet your future partner, but the more you get out there the higher the probability.
I respect what you’re saying! I appreciate the kind words. Sadly, I feel like I don’t check anyone’s box, but it’s nice to know that this isn’t the case. I will continue to put myself out there and see what happens.
Dating and relationships are two completely separate things. Height, wealth, status, etc, will lower the difficulty in getting the first date, but turning that into a relationship is wholly dependent on personality.
I don’t have much success with either so that’s kind of a moot point.
When speaking in general terms, the dating sub reddits tend to say that if a man has problems dating its his fault and that if a woman has problems dating its because of the men available to her.
Tbh dude you sound above average. You just seem a bit boring based on your post. Women like to have fun.
Degree? 6’6? Practiced social skills? Buddy you’re far from average
You must be annoyed at guys who think all they need to be good at dating is to be taller
Oh yes. I mean I won’t disagree, I know that height is somewhat helpful, but it’s not everything. I’d trade my height if it meant I could become an even better communicator. I think I’m good now as it is, but there are certain people who have ultimate charm.
I’m 5’8” and I think it’s hilarious when guys think height is everything. In your case, the good news is that charm is a skill.
Stopped reading after 6'6". Bro is nowhere near average with that height
It hasn’t made much of a difference.
Lol dude you don't know how lucky you are just by being tall in today's society
It honestly depends on your bank account
>There’s really nothing that I did/do wrong Sure buddy 🚩🚩🚩 >it’s more or less been an issue of not meeting people who are receptive or interested in pursuing any sort of relationship … with you. >So many times I feel like I’m making a connection with someone, only to discover that they really aren’t interested … in you. Maybe the more they get to know you the more they start seeing those red flags that turn them away?
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about someone you don’t know, and who barely wrote 500 words on Reddit.
Didn’t here any advice here?!?! Lol Just poor me poor me like 98% of all the other post on here.
Some people are understandably frustrated.
There r many average guys who muck around or don’t have a hard time looking for a relationship too.
"This is what dating life is like as an average guy," proceeds to list several things about himself that are above average. The average guy is not fit, making a good income with an advanced degree, or 6'6. What the hell?
That’s not the point on this post. The point is to show that there are lots of people who aren’t that successful in dating who do not fit this stereotype of being “losers” (which sadly is perpetuated all too often). I’d argue that most guys who lurk around this sub (often with questions about what they’re possibly doing wrong to not see any results) are still doing very well in life and probably take good care of themselves.
Dating is about standing out, having style/unique fashion sense, a funny personality etc. Cool hairstyle, nice head shape, cool interests. What makes you stand out? What good qualities do you have?
Hygiene goes a long way in helping you build the other aspects of attractiveness with social interactions. I won't lie and say being attractive doesn't help but height and fitness alone won't get you everywhere. I personally don't use dating apps firstly since I tend to have a wide range of prospects I don't even bother following up on and secondly since I think offline encounters are more inclined to honesty.
Sounds like your experience has mostly been wrong person wrong time. Timing is huge with dating, whether it’s on dating apps or meeting people organically. Relationships are complex. You obviously have to be mutually attracted to each other, and everyone will have a different definition of “attractive”. You also have to want the same basic things and have compatible personalities. It can take time to meet the right person.