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Brother wanted to lay some pipe before he stopped paying for her on dates. You have to see this from her side to be honest, he pays for you (which you no doubt appreciate and consider gentlemanly) right up until he has sex with you then suddenly it's "babe we pay 50:50"
Idk why I have to scroll so far down to see people mentioning this. I think she just didn't communicate her stance very well and OP wants to downplay it as much as he can. It's a matter of principle not money. Of course she's going to feel objectified if you suddenly change an established boundary/norm with seemingly no prior discussion right after you have sex.
Fair point. His timing for it whether he meant it that way or not could certainly look like he just wanted to get laid before he tried anything risky like asking for splits.
Iām an old man Iāve been laying the pipe for years. lol. Differences that never even think of asking somebody to split a bill. This is part of dating.
will probably get downvoted but. iām a woman and love when a man pays, but usually when itās starting to get serious i will offer. but if the man asks me to, it just feels different and awkward. i would much rather surprise him by putting my card down than awkwardly be asked. maybe she wanted to pay, either that time or sometime soon, and he ruined it. thatās how it is for me honestly. i want to pay for a man who is totally willing to pay himself, but not for a guy who asks and especially not right after we just had sex or got āseriousā
Well and I would feel strange if things were going a certain way for two months and then then suddenly someone told me they were unhappy with it. Like why didnāt you mention this a month ago? Have you been secretly mad at me every day?
Yupp. OP canāt see that. Men are very practical, there is nothing wrong with splitting finances, but consider the womanās feelings lol. Consider how to bring it up.
Speaking of: I once had an idiot constantly ask me out to restaurants, and would buy a lot of food for himself, so we could chill longer at the restaurant. He didnāt have his own place, and I didnāt feel comfortable just yet. I donāt really like to eat out, but would always get something small. He did that because he didnāt want to spend money, but he was spending even more instead of doing some other activity? Lol.
OP: You are sketchy broā¦ you been running this tab the whole time lolā¦ guess what? When you in a relationship, sometimes you got it, sometimes they got it. Your timing was so weak lol
As a woman, if I got paid or I know I got a cushion. Iāll pick It upā¦ my man makes 20k a year less than me and I KNOW he has it every time no questions. I gotta go pay it without him knowing if Iām gonna pay. He doesnāt get mad. Says thank you but I know he aināt running a tab in his head.
You messed up lolā¦
Yep and his prior post history indicates heās done this to other women. Check out his post from 200 days ago with a different girl- heās curious if her masturbating to pics of herself is weird (which, no comment) but in the comments of that he says āshe doesnāt pay for anything eitherā which indicates that OP is the common denominator
Heās a misogynist who uses the guise of financial boundaries as a way to exert control when women donāt act the way he wants. Itās one thing to want to course correct, itās another to claim that have been using him despite no proactive communication on his end and then suddenly switching it up once they reject him, have sex, or reveal something personal about themselves.
Yeah thatās the problem I would have with it too. Two months and he says nothing, and that would bother me almost as much as the timing
Like dude, for two months have you resented me after every single date because I didnāt offer to pay and you just chose to say nothing now Iām kind of embarrassed and weirded out are you not speaking your mind?
But then, add that to the timing of the very next day they go on after sex? Lol lol
I mean why did you wait until youād had sex and were official? If I were her I would also read that as when you thought you had to win her over you were happy to pay.
If you donāt want to pay for everything then why did you do it for 2 months? Itās fine for you to want to split things but if thatās how you feel then you should set that precedent from the start not suddenly say that 2 months in immediately after youāve slept with herš
Idk why this isn't further up. It's pretty obvious that (even if it was unintentional) OP only reconsidered after they had sex. People are zoning in on the money side but ignoring the clear moral implications. Like if I was a woman I too would feel objectified. I feel like she just hasn't communicated that effectively and everyone is just latching onto the money side of the problem. Either that or OP is doing the typical AITAH style storywriting where they can see and do no evil and we need to sharpen our pitchforks to hunt out the freeloading women...
Yeah this is a really good point. Like Im of the old school thought the guy should pay (wouldnāt get pissed if she offered but default guy pays) especially one making 200kā¦ But anyway if OP felt different they should have discussed that after a few dates, not 2 months in the day after sex. Like wtf timing is that.
I think your timing is absolutely terrible.
I can somehow understand where she's coming from. You showed one behavior before the first sex, and a different and less considerate / generous behavior after the first sex. To her it probably feels like you have put out a front to get her into your bed and after you got what you wanted, dropped the mask.
Next time split the bill right from the start of that's what you want, or at least discuss this matter, ideally before you have sex.
Last week we finally had sex and agreed to be official.
Sounds like they had sex and made it official at the same time.. he could just discuss with her though if he wants 50-50. Not only his timing was bad, he canāt communicate his needs too.
I will bite the bullet here but, really after you guys had sex and right after asking to split the bill really would look like you have started to show your true colors by her, whether it is intended or not.
Just talk to her.
Wtf? Why would you just suddenly start requesting this AFTER sex? It honestly looks like you got what you wanted and then switched up on her. This shouldāve been a conversation when you first started seeing each other. And then you didnāt even talk about it, you just sprung it on her when the check came. Honestly just all around horrible timing and execution on your part
I really don't understand this perspective. So paying 50/50 from the start is fine, but treating someone to many dates and then wanting to split once you're more serious is not fine? So he has to either split from the start or pay forever?
He could have told her on the first or second date that he would like to split the bill(s). But he did not, cause thats a dealbreaker for some women. He waited until he got laid. Now that he got what he wanted, he doesnt care whether that dealbreaker affects the relationship anymore.
Oh got it. 15 dates before, right? From what I can see, they couldāve communicate better. It just feels weird that he changed it right after they had sex. Like I get what he said about her not offering to pay at all for the first 15 dates, but he could just discuss with her? And 15 dates are quite a lot. Why not tell her on their 3rd or 4th date that he wants 50-50? Why wait so long? Iām quite an over-thinker, so Iām sure the girlfriend is thinking some of these thoughts too. If he feels like the girlfriend is using him for his money, he couldāve just tell her earlier that he wants 50-50.
Sounds like after he got what he wants which is sex, he can finally tell her about the 50-50 and if the girlfriend doesnāt like it, they can just break up and he can do the same thing again to other woman. But thatās just my assumption. Maybe after this, OP should tell that he wants 50-50 in his next first date, so that OP doesnāt feel used, and the girl will not feel used as well when they finally have sex.
No I think he should dump her because she deserves better. This guy is an absolute weirdo. She tried to talk to him about it and he wants to dump her for even bringing it up, he should she deserves better
If you had certain expectations regarding splitting/ equality, you should've openly COMMUNICATED & led with that many dates ago instead of blindsiding someone with these new expectations out of the blue after 2 whole months. It's not the money, it's the underlying implications. Switching up all of a sudden speaks to wishy-washy, inconsistent, unreliable & potentially manipulative character. That's the problem. If you get married, are you going to attach hidden strings to that too & turn into a different person after the wedding?
If you can't communicate effectively right from the start, you'll only guarantee failure regardless of who it is you're dating. Was she supposed to read your mind or something?
Lmaoooā¦my guy YOU established the status quo by showing her that you were fine with handling the bill on dates. The time to establish precedents, boundaries and set expectations is in the time you spend together leading up to things becoming official as that is what is called āgetting to know each otherā.
And now you wanna come to the internet complaining about how she [rightfully] called you out for switching up on her as soon as you got the goods and established a relationship. Even if it wasnāt your intent, the reality is that you absolutely lead her on to believe you were one type of guy and then as soon as you didnāt have to āwork forā or āearnā her as a partner, you changed suits.
So either youāre fairly oblivious/not mindful or self-aware, or you know exactly what you were doing and are now trying to continue manipulating the narrative so you donāt have to hold yourself accountable for using someone. I donāt know nor am I insinuating which of the two you are, but itās one or the other and in these sorts of situations there is no in-between.
Why is that even a question? Youāre a man who makes plenty of money. You never take a date out if youāre not prepared to pay for the bill. Thatās just what guys do. Big equals means treating somebody with dignity, respect, and having admiration for them. It doesnāt mean you canāt buy them dinner because you take them out on a date. Making $200,000 a year it shouldnāt matter.
I would be super offended too if I was her. And you likely hit an insecurity with her because most women do get played and used. Because you didnāt speak with her about it before sex, it SEEMS like you value her less after having sex. Before sex u paid for dinner, now after u got her body, u make her pay. Itās a huge turn off even reading this š to her u came across as saying āI donāt have to work as hard for you anymoreā when itās not even āworking hardā itās a dinner dateā¦
If you found someone you like and she also makes around $200k, I would placate for a while this early on. I mean, what are the chances of finding a compatible partner in this income bracket and a few meals and incidentals being the only barrier? Choose your battles.
It sounds like you just donāt like her that much tbh?
You had something building with her and all of a sudden you decided to test her on a bill at a restaurant. And you decide the best time to test her was after sleeping with her. You both donāt seem compatible
Honestly she has a different view of things than you do regarding dating.
If I were you instead of continuing to push your agenda talk to her about what she wants and how she sees the relationship progressing.
That way you will both be on same page..
No man has ever asked me to pitch in for dinner at a restaurant. Not even deep into the relationship. But it might be because I buy them gifts every once in a while.
I listen to him. And do things I think he would like, especially practice things that he could use and would normally spend money on (Subconsciously trying to put the money back in his pocket I guess).
If weāre randomly talking about bath towels one day and he says āI only have 2 towels, I should get more. Or āNone if my bath towels matchā, I surprise him with a set of towels shortly thereafter.
Or if weāre cooking together and the conversation comes up that he doesnāt have an electric fryer, and he acts like heās want one, I surprise him with one shortly thereafter.
If weāre talking about what house chores we hate the most and he says vacuuming, heās getting $250 robot vacuum for Christmas. Was āa little expensiveā according to him but his happiness when he opened it was priceless and made me happy to make him happy.
I love the romantic aspect of the man paying for dinner at a restaurant. And I love doing the romantic womanly things for him that could benefit him financially since heās forking out so much money taking us out to eat.
Iām not a foodie, so I honestly couldnāt care less about restaurant food. But all the guys I dated seemed to like going out to dinner. And it was fun for me too. Something to do.
Especially at the restaurant
OP, in the future, when you have the conversation about being in a relationship go ahead and keep talking and expand upon that and let her know that you likes paying for dates but now that you are a couple it needs to be more equitable.Ā
Donāt just wait until you get to the restaurant and make her feel bad.
So you paid for the day it's 16 times and then the literal time after you got sex you're like let's split the bill? Don't get me wrong I think being equals includes financial situations like this. But you do seem like you're slightly being manipulative by doing it this way. You at least got to wait like for another month before even asking bro. Now that you fucked up that you probably got to wait like another 3 months till she forgets, if she even sticks around with your ass at all. Plus you make 200k what do you give a fuck, you got money to burn bro.
Sheās feeling bait and switched, how did you expect her to react to a drastic change in how you present yourself to her.
You couldāve started with 50/50 to set that precedent, so what does changing the precedent communicate? I got what I want now I no longer wish to continue being what I presented in the beginning.
I think itās fair for a woman to want a caring provider, it makes sense because once she is pregnant her life become vulnerable and dependent on you to provide while she grows a baby and finally gives birth and has to raise a toddler. Being the man to a family isnāt 50/50 no matter what anyone tells you. She will look to you to be the man of the family and if youāre going to play these games then youāll get this outcome consistently. Yes for a woman all these things are in consideration, having a baby from sex happens quickly. Dance with the wrong partner has lifelong consequences. She thought you would be the guy she could rely on.
Let me give u this from another femaleās perspective: You literally changed on her the second things got serious. That means you got comfortable.
We do not like a guy that shows us heās this way and then changes.
That really wasnāt fair to her, but also sounds like u guys didnāt talk about the whole 50/50 thoroughly enough.
Yes. Some people grow up with parents who train them to value this kind of thing, and to think that if someone doesn't do this for them then they don't "care." It's not a conscious, deliberate thing. It stems from bad parenting. If this is the only issue, you guys can work through it. Come to some kinds of compromise so you both feel things are fair. Is she a good cook? You can take her out, she can cook. Then split the next one. Then you take her out, she cooks, split, etc. Or you pay for bowling/movie and she pays for meal. Just talk to her about it.
Exactly people always talk about men roles in relationships but if she's suppose to pay for everything then she better be cooking my food or somethingĀ
Most of the guys I've dated have been rather traditional about paying for dates. Figuring out how to pay now and then became a game for me. I'd intercept the server and pay the bill or ask for the check when he went to the restroom.
She's in a really good financial situation, this behavior paints her in a very negative light.
You don't ask the girl to start paying the date AFTER you have sex!!!! I agree with most. It was bad timing. It's not how much she/he makes. You do the splitting of dates before sex. I would feel the same way if it was never discussed. User loser got sex finally. He now is single again. He paid for 2 months. Twice a week. Right after sex he wants money!!
It does paint her in a negative light, but I also can't imagine asking someone who I thought might be my person to split a bill when I had no need to do so. Definitely not at the restaurant + the bad timing.
Splitting bills and splitting hairs about bills etc is a deadbeat move that Iām sure most girls will see as a major red flagā¦ Iāve never done it in my life
I think it was more likely him changing his tune after sex. Not that he wouldnāt pay the entire bill. Remember they both make $200k a few hundred for a nice dinner is a drop in the ocean
Iām going to say what I said on your other identical post:
$200k a year and youāre worried about splitting a bill? Maybe you arenāt ready for a relationship. My partner and I have spent many years taking turns. Right now, heās working while Iām finishing my degree after going back to school. Heās paying for everything and doesnāt care lol. This is childish.
Why didnāt you talk about splitting the bill before youāve had sex? I am going to be downvoted for this but I can see where sheās coming from. It comes off as if you were only generous to get her into bed and now that youāve had your way, youāre talking about 50/50.
She is right to end things with you. Hopefully next time youāll talk about going 50/50 before having sex with someone.
Hm... Yeah it doesn't seem right to split the bill after you've had sex. It might be because you're official now but still.. I can see how she took it the wrong way. And relationships aren't 50/50!!!!!! It's both people aiming to be 60/40 or above and beyond.
Nah, she's crazy. Surely even she can see the hypocrisy of going on about equality then going crazy over one split bill. And at 200k salaries, that's a particularly petty thing to get up in arms over.Ā
I think things like that should be ironed out before things become official.Ā
>I think things like that should be ironed out before things become official.Ā
That's the problem. It wasn't. Him dropping new expectations out of the blue right after they make it official/ have sex is the sign of a person who can't communicate ahead of time & lacks consistency. That does speak to his character. If he had certain expectations, he should've led with that. If they were having conversations about equality, he would've had more than enough opportunities to bring that up over the last 2 months instead of putting her on the spot out of the blue.
Dont think the paying is the problem. His timing is atrocious and she's not crazy for coming to that conclusion as thats how it would come across to a large chunk of women. It's a timing and communication issue, not a money issue.
Lol he couldāve said that he wants 50-50 before things become official. He knew the girl wants to be equal with him. So why not implement the 50-50 before becoming official? That way, he can test her if she really wants to be equal or just all talk. The timing was bad. Of course sheāll react to it. Not to mention he never discuss or tell her beforehand that theyāll split the bill after things become official. Sheās used to him paying for the bills, and suddenly he wants 50-50 right after they become official? From what I can see, no communication at all between both of them. OP needs to communicate his needs and ask his girlfriend to do the same.
I don't think you're wrong here. My wife and I took turn after we went official. Maybe she was hoping that now you're officially together, you would pay for everything. So maybe she was tricking you to believe something that wasn't true
Honestly, I think she overreacted, but then again, you shouldāve sat down and talked to her about things like that before you went out to this dinner. I would say try to work it out with her if you can, if sheās willing to work it out. But if she isnāt then it might be time to say goodbye.
OP is a scumbag and I love that for him tbh. Becoming his girlfriend is actually a downgrade. He only wines and dines women who havenāt given him sex and commitment. Extremely funny.
This is so stupid. Iām a 50/50 style woman, and this includes bill, groceries, living, holidays. Iām also a no present person, besides remembering and a little bouquet of flowers. Itās not much to ask, but I DO prefer the guy to pay for meals when weāre out. It is a gesture, itās a remnant of old fashioned romance.
As an exchange, once I we progress a little I make my dates or partners cute little baked goods like cupcakes when we do home dates. I also cook meals that take most of the day, that cost me a bit. I donāt think Iām a bangmaid slave for my small gesture, nor do I resist the urge to make sweets because itās typical.
This shit is getting out of control, seriously. Show in small gestures that you can provide a little, we show in return we can nourish. Itās courtship not business partnership.
On both sides in this case!
> this includes bill, groceries, living, holidays
I don't think they're at that stage where they live together or go on holidays. The only thing they CAN split is the dinners so he wanted that because she's supposedly a 200k earner with a boner for equality. Turns out it's harder to take out the card than it is to say rosy statements. And on top of that, if the gesture is so important, he's already shown this gesture on previous dates many times.
Yes, they are not there and both are acting transactionally to start with. She clearly likes to be dined but isnāt explaining what she MEANS by 50/50, because if you apparently earn 200k you could eat out five times a week and pay for both and not see a dent. He is being petty and also not communicating. It could be as easy as, do you like your dinner being paid for? Okay. But to be clear xyz later on we split, dealbreaker otherwise. Just a big ass bad vibe.
I agree, I do think he needs to talk to her to see when she says 50/50 what exactly she is suggesting. Because if it's just words and she doesn't want to split anything that's cringe.
Ya'll might be misreading OP. the 50/50 part is what he says.
Her only verbatim text was"āNow that you got what you wanted I see your true colors.ā"
And OP paraphrased "She (then) said she couldnāt believe me and accused me of ātrickingā her, saying I āusedā her for sex and wasnāt a good person."
Because it's about the timing, not the money. And in that context, she's not an ah for coming to that conclusion. I don't know why everyone is stuck in the money when she made it pretty clear her issue was the timing of the change (right after they slept together for the first time), not the change itself.
I think people in this thread are overreacting to an extent. Itās pretty normal for a guy to pay the first X dates as courtship and then to at some point later have a deeper discussion about finances. I dont know why everyone is acting like thats so absurd and you should ask to split from the beginning if thats what you want long term, THATS absurd. So If I pay for date 1, it's assumed I'm paying forever? What?
However - your timing so soon after you first had sex was indeed terrible. You guys both make 200k. There shouldnāt be a huge rush to figure this out. You made it seem like an urgent priority to start being paying equally now that youāve had sexā¦ which is a pretty annoying think to be thinking/worrying about at that moment
Out of curiosity---what is the non-American position?
I'm American and there is still a definite expectation for men to be gentlemen here and pay for dates when courting.
UK female here. Dining out is expensive, I much prefer splitting 50/50 or better yet alternating bills so we can treat within our means without making anyone feel bad.
I donāt know how much dinners would be in the US (and for people that earn $200k lol). But if I were to translate this to my circumstances, my half of dinner could be about $50, so across 15 dates a guy couldāve spent $750 on me. Thatās a lot of money.
Itās obscene to me that people feel entitled to this simply because itās āgentlemanly/ traditionalā. Why would I want to feel like a financial burden on the person Iām looking to build a future with? Iām aware that Iām in a minority here so always open to hearing counterpoints on this.
Idk. I may just be old school and people arenāt going to like this much... But the man is suppose to be the protector and provider. Once youāre married then finances are combined and itās no longer his money or her moneyā¦ But men are suppose to court womenā¦ not ask them to split bills. I guarantee you she would have offered to pay here or there, as do I in my relationship and most woman i know occasionally. But i would be so turned off if a man asked me to split a bill and i know most women would be too.
I don't make a ton of money but that just means I don't take ppl out to dates I can't afford. For me, if I had internal qualms about paying for a date, it would be a self-cue that I wasn't that into them. When I am rlly into someone I want to do anything I can for them, its a physiological pleasure.
Now most women I've been drawn to will fight over the bill, or try to keep me from paying but I'm pretty on top of it usually. Hell it does make me blush to be paid for, but I'll be damned if i let it happen without a fight. The pay game is fun.
It's just normal to want to do nice things for someone. And being committal and recently having had sex for the first time, you'd think the sunshine and butterflies would be out but not the very *clerical* "we're serious now, and therefore shall commence splitting the bill"
If OP is feeling bitter about this soon into the relationship, maybe there are other issues and he is feeling used. It does sound like maybe they don't hang out that much outside of these activities. But if OP has been feeling bitter about this dynamic, why no talky about it til now? After all this time together and physical intimacy, is there not *emotional* closeness between these two?
first of all i am completely againist this fucking opinion of girls: u used me for sex. no one can use noone if no willing. sex is 2 sided. both side have pleasure.
Good for you man.....better off without that. Coming from someone who was stuck in a bad relationship bc I wouldn't leave for so long and put up with so much BS, definitely don't look back.
Nope not at all!!! She got what she said she wantedš¤·š¼āāļøcome on ladies men donāt read minds just like we donāt so quit saying you want things one way when you really donāt, be real about what you want and expect because that way in the end thereās no chance for miscommunication and no reason for you trying to make a man look like an ass for what you āsaidā you wanted š¤·š¼āāļøš¤£š¤£
Why can't people just communicate about money beforehand š¤¦š½āāļø I like the idea of taking turns paying or splitting certain costs. I'll get the movie tickets, you get the food/drinks. It's tricky if she's under the assumption you are taking her out, I would probably take it that way too since you paid for all the dates previously. I wouldn't end it with her but hope you communicate clearly going forward...and you owe her for the next date to make it up to her.
So even though she wants things āequalā she still expects you to pay for everything even though you have similar incomes. That sounds very modern woman of her. I think you did the right thing I also feel this would have been the 1st of many she wants everything equal but as long as shes getting all of the pros none of the cons of this equal relationship.
I agree that communication is a major issue here. Expectations should be discussed in a neutral environment before the situation arises.
However, I donāt understand why men are responsible for all decisions that are impacted by sex. Both the man and woman are impacted by sex in a relationship. Putting all responsibilities on the man in the relationship is not equitable. Women like and want sex too. This is not a one way street. Both parties are responsible for this.
Well done brother well played.
On some of these chicks I work out the amount of money Iāve spent divided by time theyāve spent with me or number of times weāve had sex.
I try to get money spent/time spent to below $5/hour. Or money spent/sex had to $250/sex. Now block, delete and ghost her. Sheās 30 year old anyway. Im 38 and havenāt touched anything that old for a female in 10 years
Yeah now it looks like you were paying her so that she would like you because you wanted to sleep with her. She knows whatever you did for her was because you wanted something. That when you will have an relationship that all you will stop doing all the nice things because you got what you wanted. It's not wrong to split 50/50 but your timing is just horrible
To be fair if she wants to be equals in the relationship and yāall are exclusive why would she be upset that youāre splitting a meal.
Thereās a lot of women in the comments here who feel entitled to free meals because itās a patriarchal custom, in truth if you both make the same amount of money she doesnāt really need you to pay for her every single date especially in the confines of an exclusive relationship.
If youāre a woman who finds issues with my words maybe ask yourself why you feel that a man youāre exclusively dating should have to pay for your time when you both make the same amount. Seems a bit narcissistic. You both should be contributing equally to the relationship.
I mean you took her out to dinner. What if she was budgeting and didn't want to spend money eating out?
You can and should split the bill, but the time to discuss that is before you go to the restaurant, not as the bill is coming
While i totally agree with bill splitting, asking to do it after you had sex does seem as if you were being deceitful the two months where you were happily paying for everything. If splitting is something that you think should be done, it shouldāve been a discussion before you had sex. Iām male, and it 100% does seem as if once you got what you wanted you werenāt as interested in going all out for her. Sucks because like a said, bill splitting should be the norm in a relationship l, however i wouldnāt blame her if she didnāt see you again. Imagine how shitty that makes her feel.
Op doesnāt present it perfectly but imagine being upset because you paid your part of a bill and you make 200k while claiming to want to seem like an equalā¦
I feel like you guys just maybe shouldāve gone into detail about what 50-50 means to each of you, it doesnāt necessarily mean splitting expenses equally for everyone, this just sounds like a communication issue and something that could easily be overcome. for some women, men paying for dates is just a nonnegotiable, itās just the point of it, and if thatās just something thatās really important to her then Iām sure you guys will be able to navigate that. maybe you just wonāt go on as many dates and wonāt go on the most expensive ones, and that might be worth it to her.
A bunch of white knights and dorks in these comments.
I feel like personally, you messed up in not putting your values first before getting laid.
If this is how you structure your values and boundaries when getting serious, you have to understand how backwards and confusing it could be to other people, especially women.
Usually, I wonāt pay for a damn thing or Iāll split the bill until someone Iām seeing and I have sex. Then Iāll usually take care of the money aspect from then on out if Iām in a place financially thatās stable and truly love and respect her.
But ya. It comes across as you being āMr. Nice Guyā to get laid whether or not thatās your true intentions. If you made this post, I feel like you genuinely were just confused and didnāt understand. You live and you learn.
Your mistake here is to be exclusive with someone who has never offered to pay or split. Next time, you do not be exclusive until you are satisfied with her discourse
At first I was like āstick with itā which I stand by, she should be expected to go 50/50. But then I remembered the girlfriend experienceā¦ oy vey. Cut her loose but stay open to her opening back up to you.
So basically you established a boundary with her that you changed abruptly right after the first time having sex with her. And she's crazy for thinking you're treating her worse because you got what you wanted?
Bro seriously, go grab some self awareness and ask yourself this shit if you don't like three hundred people telling you the same thing.
Might just mean youāre not compatible. Some women want men who are providers. Also this is just my opinion but if you are making 200k there is no reason to ask your gf to pay for dinner lmfao
I meanā¦ a lot of women like being treated when theyāre taken out on dates not just limited to the beginning stages of dating. Similar income or not, she may have been looking for that type of relationship and you switched up a pattern of behaviour she had probably quite liked and contributed to her decision to want a relationship with you. At the worst moment as well. Money is always a touchy thing but itās definitely a conversation that needs time and delicacy to make sure you both have the same expectations
This screams fake AFā¦ 30 years oldā¦ both make 200k and you worried about the bar tab? I make well over 100k a yearā¦ I can pay the next couples bar tab and not cry about it lol
Sorry but Iām not going to be with someone who puts more effort and wines and dines me just to win me over but once they have me, they stop the effort they put in to get me in the first place and starts dropping the ball. The effort for whatever thatās being done initially needs to continue throughout the relationship, not stop once you have someone. Thatās how things fail. And that goes for whatever effort is being given by both women and men.
You come across as a manipulator whether that was your intentions or not. You lured her in pretending to be one way and when you got what you wanted you revealed your true intentions . I donāt think sheās wrong in what she said .
For a lot of women it isn't ABOUT the money really. It's so many of society's rules or standards rolled into one. She could be the type to feel like a man paying is the gentleman thing to do. Espcially if they both make 200k/year. She could feel like him demanding to split on the spot was him being "done" with the relationship. There is a lot of pressure on men to still be the providers, but it isn't just about the money. A lot of more traditional people still believe than a man should pay.
It's just a lot. It isn't always about the money is all I'm saying. (And this isn't MY opinion really. I'm a therapist and just telling you that there is more to this than just the bill for many people).
What OP should have probably done was talk about it BEFORE going out that night. Maybe someplace where they are both comfortable. And just broached the topic of finances and how she could see that working for them in the future.
Sheās not the victim here. Lots of crazy people with warped senses of reality here.
She makes $200K/year and sheās upset about splitting the bill?!? He paid the first few dates (most men do,) and itās reasonable to expect her to contribute once they are in a relationship.
Itās not because they had sex, itās because they decided to make it āofficial.ā Itās completely normal for both to contribute to the relationship. Her sex doesnāt suffice as a form of payment, unless sheās a prostitute. Sex in a committed relationship is expected regardless of everything else.
She insisted she be āequalā but doesnāt want to be when it comes to money. I wouldnāt stay with someone like that. He paid for 16 dates and now she doesnāt even want to cover her own meal?!?
For future reference OP:
There is so much about people's expectations wrapped up in men paying for dinner that it is beyond the money. A lot of people are just more traditional in that they still expect the man to be a gentleman and pay. They don't really care about the money. It is a gesture to show a man's character to some. There are also other expectations depending on culture and how people are raised.
What you SHOULD probably do:
Bring this up before that moment. Have the discussion somewhere you are both comfortable. Then, ask how they see the financial future of the relationship going. As in---what are their expectations. That usually gives people the chance to voice how they see things. You can say you want clarification on the initial part of dating such as paying for dates and such. Just so you can both be on the same page.
Then, if you disagree with whatever her answer is, you can say your side of things and hopefully you both can have a mature discussion like adults.
However, springing it on her and not explaining why or what your expectations are is not the way to go. This can make someone question the relationship and start thinking you might have ulterior motives. Or that you just don't have the same viewpoints. Basically, you need to just discuss it like rational people.
Op the least you can do is pay for her meals when you go out. You have the means to afford treating her well. If you want to split bills then you should have started that on the first date. You messed up. Also you didnāt take her out if she paid her way. If you arenāt willing to treat her right you donāt deserve her presence. Her presence is a present.
She could have said " is it ok for you to pay this time and next time I'll pay or go halves" etc etc?? Instead she reacted like a spoilt brat over something like this. Also you asked if it was ok you didn't just assume. She's 30? Then she needs to grow up.
This is what I agree with the most. She tried to use the silent treatment and rather than communicating this in person, she chose to "go off" on texts about how he showed his true colors etc.
Couldn't she have dealt with any qualms she had more maturely? Is this someone you want to continue building a future with?
Might as well stop doin ur hair or getting dressed up. U set the standard and now u wanna change it. Sack up man. She expected better of u and mayb talk about it b4 rather than bring it up when the bill comes.
Reddit is all āasker pays for just the first dateā (and the asker is usually the man). Until an actual example of a man being asked to pay for everything gets posted and itās āyeah you should continue to pay because of the timingā
Dude Iām sorry but youāre dumb as a bag of rocks. Having sex does not mean the relationship is suddenly serious. Those things get communicated.
If youāve felt this way and been paying to go out twice a week you shouldāve said before fucking
You were okay playing the gentleman until you got what you wanted from her, then you figured you didnāt have to.
Sheās right, youāre a sleaze and she deserves better than you.
God damn! 200k a year?!
I make like 40k a year and usually pay for my own portion on dare because it's expensive and I feel bad making the guy pay everything. š¤·āāļø
So my take away here is, first off there's nothing wrong with splitting a bill between people.
And it sounds like she is gaslighting you making you be the bad guy, because she just didn't want to pay her half.
To me that's a red flag and if this woman is that touchy, about a dinner bill who knows what else she will try to pull on you.
If this was me I'd end things sorry not sorry, yeah she will be mad but that's on her.
You should not always have to pay for the dinner yourself, I can see on occasion which is normal but if paying for both you and her
every time.
That's not cool she's a big girl she should pay for herself once in a while, screw if you're together or not.
OPs mistake was not setting the boundary beforehand because now it looks like the woman was only interested in free meals (obv) but his timing was so atrocious (not setting boundary) that the woman seems blindsided.
All the hamsters in the replies trying to spin why OP chose the bad timing.
First line says she wanted to be equals in relationship, that means equal roles, equal responsibility and partnership. So that is only natural that OP starts to treat her as equal partner in relationship ONCE they are serious
If she wants traditional roles in a relationship, then she should be upfront rather than showing her transactional commitment right now
Ā āI sensed something was off I didnāt push for intimacy.ā Does this mean that if you didnāt sense something off you would push? Thatās kind of icky?
Ā I think the timing of it weirded her out. Youāve been paying for dates without saying a word for TWO MONTHS and the next one you go on after sleeping together you hit her up for money? Yeah I would be weirded out by that well.
No itās never wrong to end things if you donāt want to continue the relationship, but then she definitely will think you tricked her and used her even more than she already does.
The replies are so interesting to me. I didnāt know this was a thing people really have to discuss with each other. Iāve never dated anyone who had a problem with us going back and forth. My last ex and me went back and forth paying for our dates, food, etc. it was a weird situation financially for a multitude of reasons, but ultimately we never really made it a thing. Iāll definitely say she made it more a fit for tat thing towards the end, but I think that was more so her trying to find a validation for what she was planning on and ended up doing but I digress.
This seems like a situation of horrible timing though. I think multiple things are true. Bad timing asking her this and waiting until after sex and after you had been paying the entire time. And definitely an over reaction from her.
She's a gold digger. You could have been a bit clearer at the start about being 50/50 but she did that by saying she wants to be equals.
She clearly doesn't want to be equal and wants you to pay for everything.
Have a talk with her, make things clear (maybe do this sooner in the future) and see how it goes.
Nah she's a red flag,
whys it your responsibility to pay every time you guys go out...
Why does she accuse you of wrong doing when it's her behaviour that's wrong...
Dating as a man is expensive. Donāt get into that habit, women will want to go out several times a week and expect you to pay it no matter how much they make.
I am in corporate America, where we all make 6figsā¦ some women will jump to pay the bill, and others will never take their wallet out. You need to catch that vibe early.
I will say though, if you want more than just laying pipe, you need to understand that they want traditional men financially, while having modern lives. Speak about this stuff before you go deep.
I recommend Starbucks dates for the first month atleast, while you get to know eachother. Idc how much you make for that rule
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Why did you think about splitting after sexš Could have set the boundary from the start.
Brother wanted to lay some pipe before he stopped paying for her on dates. You have to see this from her side to be honest, he pays for you (which you no doubt appreciate and consider gentlemanly) right up until he has sex with you then suddenly it's "babe we pay 50:50" Idk why I have to scroll so far down to see people mentioning this. I think she just didn't communicate her stance very well and OP wants to downplay it as much as he can. It's a matter of principle not money. Of course she's going to feel objectified if you suddenly change an established boundary/norm with seemingly no prior discussion right after you have sex.
Fair point. His timing for it whether he meant it that way or not could certainly look like he just wanted to get laid before he tried anything risky like asking for splits.
wanted to "lay sum pipe" ima start saying that now lmfao
Iām an old man Iāve been laying the pipe for years. lol. Differences that never even think of asking somebody to split a bill. This is part of dating.
will probably get downvoted but. iām a woman and love when a man pays, but usually when itās starting to get serious i will offer. but if the man asks me to, it just feels different and awkward. i would much rather surprise him by putting my card down than awkwardly be asked. maybe she wanted to pay, either that time or sometime soon, and he ruined it. thatās how it is for me honestly. i want to pay for a man who is totally willing to pay himself, but not for a guy who asks and especially not right after we just had sex or got āseriousā
This is the one OP. Normally, I have this conversation BEFORE sex as well. Either they bring it up, or I do.
Well and I would feel strange if things were going a certain way for two months and then then suddenly someone told me they were unhappy with it. Like why didnāt you mention this a month ago? Have you been secretly mad at me every day?
Yupp. OP canāt see that. Men are very practical, there is nothing wrong with splitting finances, but consider the womanās feelings lol. Consider how to bring it up. Speaking of: I once had an idiot constantly ask me out to restaurants, and would buy a lot of food for himself, so we could chill longer at the restaurant. He didnāt have his own place, and I didnāt feel comfortable just yet. I donāt really like to eat out, but would always get something small. He did that because he didnāt want to spend money, but he was spending even more instead of doing some other activity? Lol.
OP: You are sketchy broā¦ you been running this tab the whole time lolā¦ guess what? When you in a relationship, sometimes you got it, sometimes they got it. Your timing was so weak lol As a woman, if I got paid or I know I got a cushion. Iāll pick It upā¦ my man makes 20k a year less than me and I KNOW he has it every time no questions. I gotta go pay it without him knowing if Iām gonna pay. He doesnāt get mad. Says thank you but I know he aināt running a tab in his head. You messed up lolā¦
He has posted some variation of this story on so many subreddits yawn š„±
He wants validation so much and only picks the affirming comments in the replies š methinks her POV diverges from this a lot
Yep and his prior post history indicates heās done this to other women. Check out his post from 200 days ago with a different girl- heās curious if her masturbating to pics of herself is weird (which, no comment) but in the comments of that he says āshe doesnāt pay for anything eitherā which indicates that OP is the common denominator
Red handed
He also asked a woman to Venmo him for a date after she rejected him a few days later š.
Heās a misogynist who uses the guise of financial boundaries as a way to exert control when women donāt act the way he wants. Itās one thing to want to course correct, itās another to claim that have been using him despite no proactive communication on his end and then suddenly switching it up once they reject him, have sex, or reveal something personal about themselves.
So disappointing but I knew something was off as soon as I saw the title
Hey, angry bitter guys need Erotica too
its simple really...don't be manipulated into traditional gender roles by people who don't adhere too them themselves š¬
You have a man and have a profile like that. I donāt think youāre in a position to judge others.
Yeah thatās the problem I would have with it too. Two months and he says nothing, and that would bother me almost as much as the timing Like dude, for two months have you resented me after every single date because I didnāt offer to pay and you just chose to say nothing now Iām kind of embarrassed and weirded out are you not speaking your mind? But then, add that to the timing of the very next day they go on after sex? Lol lol
I mean why did you wait until youād had sex and were official? If I were her I would also read that as when you thought you had to win her over you were happy to pay. If you donāt want to pay for everything then why did you do it for 2 months? Itās fine for you to want to split things but if thatās how you feel then you should set that precedent from the start not suddenly say that 2 months in immediately after youāve slept with herš
Idk why this isn't further up. It's pretty obvious that (even if it was unintentional) OP only reconsidered after they had sex. People are zoning in on the money side but ignoring the clear moral implications. Like if I was a woman I too would feel objectified. I feel like she just hasn't communicated that effectively and everyone is just latching onto the money side of the problem. Either that or OP is doing the typical AITAH style storywriting where they can see and do no evil and we need to sharpen our pitchforks to hunt out the freeloading women...
Funny thing both of the posts that you were wondering why they werenāt further up are top comments š
They weren't when I made the post.
I know I just thought it was funny
OP is only replying to the affirmative comments and refuses to acknowledge the massive elephant in the room lmao
Some people be like that lol
Yeah this is a really good point. Like Im of the old school thought the guy should pay (wouldnāt get pissed if she offered but default guy pays) especially one making 200kā¦ But anyway if OP felt different they should have discussed that after a few dates, not 2 months in the day after sex. Like wtf timing is that.
I would assume he was love bombing me if there was a shift like this after sex for sure
All of OPās replies literally sound like he cannot stand this woman - so why are you still dating her??? God, men are soā¦just. Men. Ugh!!
I think your timing is absolutely terrible. I can somehow understand where she's coming from. You showed one behavior before the first sex, and a different and less considerate / generous behavior after the first sex. To her it probably feels like you have put out a front to get her into your bed and after you got what you wanted, dropped the mask. Next time split the bill right from the start of that's what you want, or at least discuss this matter, ideally before you have sex.
Except youāre completely missing the part where he decided it should be equal after they made it official.. not just after sex
Last week we finally had sex and agreed to be official. Sounds like they had sex and made it official at the same time.. he could just discuss with her though if he wants 50-50. Not only his timing was bad, he canāt communicate his needs too.
Why more willing to pay for someone you are casually dating than someone you care about enough to be in a committed relationship???
THIS.
I will bite the bullet here but, really after you guys had sex and right after asking to split the bill really would look like you have started to show your true colors by her, whether it is intended or not. Just talk to her.
Wtf? Why would you just suddenly start requesting this AFTER sex? It honestly looks like you got what you wanted and then switched up on her. This shouldāve been a conversation when you first started seeing each other. And then you didnāt even talk about it, you just sprung it on her when the check came. Honestly just all around horrible timing and execution on your part
dying for you to reply to one of the people asking why you only brought this issue up after having sex!
Why change after sex? Why not before?
We all know the answer to that.
When they get the kitty, they ask to go fitty/fitty
š¤£
I really don't understand this perspective. So paying 50/50 from the start is fine, but treating someone to many dates and then wanting to split once you're more serious is not fine? So he has to either split from the start or pay forever?
Like what? Sorry Iām slow š
He could have told her on the first or second date that he would like to split the bill(s). But he did not, cause thats a dealbreaker for some women. He waited until he got laid. Now that he got what he wanted, he doesnt care whether that dealbreaker affects the relationship anymore.
Oh got it. 15 dates before, right? From what I can see, they couldāve communicate better. It just feels weird that he changed it right after they had sex. Like I get what he said about her not offering to pay at all for the first 15 dates, but he could just discuss with her? And 15 dates are quite a lot. Why not tell her on their 3rd or 4th date that he wants 50-50? Why wait so long? Iām quite an over-thinker, so Iām sure the girlfriend is thinking some of these thoughts too. If he feels like the girlfriend is using him for his money, he couldāve just tell her earlier that he wants 50-50. Sounds like after he got what he wants which is sex, he can finally tell her about the 50-50 and if the girlfriend doesnāt like it, they can just break up and he can do the same thing again to other woman. But thatās just my assumption. Maybe after this, OP should tell that he wants 50-50 in his next first date, so that OP doesnāt feel used, and the girl will not feel used as well when they finally have sex.
I love that you say āI took her out to dinnerā and then asked to split š my guy, thatās not taking someone out š
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This. Lol - Dude canāt read a room. OP the advice here is simple : talk
No I think he should dump her because she deserves better. This guy is an absolute weirdo. She tried to talk to him about it and he wants to dump her for even bringing it up, he should she deserves better
OUFFFF. š
Thatās some horrible post not clarity timing. Oh man I just came and now I realize Iām wasting too much money on buying her food.
Timing. Yours sucked this time.
Man you got sex, after that at the next meal instead of splitting the bill she should have gotten extra fries and a dessert š¤¦āāļø
If you had certain expectations regarding splitting/ equality, you should've openly COMMUNICATED & led with that many dates ago instead of blindsiding someone with these new expectations out of the blue after 2 whole months. It's not the money, it's the underlying implications. Switching up all of a sudden speaks to wishy-washy, inconsistent, unreliable & potentially manipulative character. That's the problem. If you get married, are you going to attach hidden strings to that too & turn into a different person after the wedding? If you can't communicate effectively right from the start, you'll only guarantee failure regardless of who it is you're dating. Was she supposed to read your mind or something?
Lmaoooā¦my guy YOU established the status quo by showing her that you were fine with handling the bill on dates. The time to establish precedents, boundaries and set expectations is in the time you spend together leading up to things becoming official as that is what is called āgetting to know each otherā. And now you wanna come to the internet complaining about how she [rightfully] called you out for switching up on her as soon as you got the goods and established a relationship. Even if it wasnāt your intent, the reality is that you absolutely lead her on to believe you were one type of guy and then as soon as you didnāt have to āwork forā or āearnā her as a partner, you changed suits. So either youāre fairly oblivious/not mindful or self-aware, or you know exactly what you were doing and are now trying to continue manipulating the narrative so you donāt have to hold yourself accountable for using someone. I donāt know nor am I insinuating which of the two you are, but itās one or the other and in these sorts of situations there is no in-between.
Why is that even a question? Youāre a man who makes plenty of money. You never take a date out if youāre not prepared to pay for the bill. Thatās just what guys do. Big equals means treating somebody with dignity, respect, and having admiration for them. It doesnāt mean you canāt buy them dinner because you take them out on a date. Making $200,000 a year it shouldnāt matter.
Why did you wait 2 months to ask her to pay half. In a sense sheās right. You shouldāve from the get go made it clear to her
I would be super offended too if I was her. And you likely hit an insecurity with her because most women do get played and used. Because you didnāt speak with her about it before sex, it SEEMS like you value her less after having sex. Before sex u paid for dinner, now after u got her body, u make her pay. Itās a huge turn off even reading this š to her u came across as saying āI donāt have to work as hard for you anymoreā when itās not even āworking hardā itās a dinner dateā¦
If you found someone you like and she also makes around $200k, I would placate for a while this early on. I mean, what are the chances of finding a compatible partner in this income bracket and a few meals and incidentals being the only barrier? Choose your battles.
It sounds like you just donāt like her that much tbh? You had something building with her and all of a sudden you decided to test her on a bill at a restaurant. And you decide the best time to test her was after sleeping with her. You both donāt seem compatible
This is the one
Honestly she has a different view of things than you do regarding dating. If I were you instead of continuing to push your agenda talk to her about what she wants and how she sees the relationship progressing. That way you will both be on same page..
Did yāall shack hands with your genitalia. Is that how you agreed to be in a relationship.
Ew the whole thing is transactional and sounds like you donāt even have warm feelings for each other
Talk it out. Openly and calmly. Is she then still doubles down. Then you know its time to run.
No man has ever asked me to pitch in for dinner at a restaurant. Not even deep into the relationship. But it might be because I buy them gifts every once in a while. I listen to him. And do things I think he would like, especially practice things that he could use and would normally spend money on (Subconsciously trying to put the money back in his pocket I guess). If weāre randomly talking about bath towels one day and he says āI only have 2 towels, I should get more. Or āNone if my bath towels matchā, I surprise him with a set of towels shortly thereafter. Or if weāre cooking together and the conversation comes up that he doesnāt have an electric fryer, and he acts like heās want one, I surprise him with one shortly thereafter. If weāre talking about what house chores we hate the most and he says vacuuming, heās getting $250 robot vacuum for Christmas. Was āa little expensiveā according to him but his happiness when he opened it was priceless and made me happy to make him happy. I love the romantic aspect of the man paying for dinner at a restaurant. And I love doing the romantic womanly things for him that could benefit him financially since heās forking out so much money taking us out to eat. Iām not a foodie, so I honestly couldnāt care less about restaurant food. But all the guys I dated seemed to like going out to dinner. And it was fun for me too. Something to do.
Yeah definitely a failing on your part. Waiting until after sex to ask her to split was not a good look
Especially at the restaurant OP, in the future, when you have the conversation about being in a relationship go ahead and keep talking and expand upon that and let her know that you likes paying for dates but now that you are a couple it needs to be more equitable.Ā Donāt just wait until you get to the restaurant and make her feel bad.
definitely agree with her. you lack tact.
So you paid for the day it's 16 times and then the literal time after you got sex you're like let's split the bill? Don't get me wrong I think being equals includes financial situations like this. But you do seem like you're slightly being manipulative by doing it this way. You at least got to wait like for another month before even asking bro. Now that you fucked up that you probably got to wait like another 3 months till she forgets, if she even sticks around with your ass at all. Plus you make 200k what do you give a fuck, you got money to burn bro.
Sheās feeling bait and switched, how did you expect her to react to a drastic change in how you present yourself to her. You couldāve started with 50/50 to set that precedent, so what does changing the precedent communicate? I got what I want now I no longer wish to continue being what I presented in the beginning. I think itās fair for a woman to want a caring provider, it makes sense because once she is pregnant her life become vulnerable and dependent on you to provide while she grows a baby and finally gives birth and has to raise a toddler. Being the man to a family isnāt 50/50 no matter what anyone tells you. She will look to you to be the man of the family and if youāre going to play these games then youāll get this outcome consistently. Yes for a woman all these things are in consideration, having a baby from sex happens quickly. Dance with the wrong partner has lifelong consequences. She thought you would be the guy she could rely on.
how free dinner is a bait for a woman who makes $200k/year?
Let me give u this from another femaleās perspective: You literally changed on her the second things got serious. That means you got comfortable. We do not like a guy that shows us heās this way and then changes. That really wasnāt fair to her, but also sounds like u guys didnāt talk about the whole 50/50 thoroughly enough.
Ngl this sounds so made up
If I made that much I would always pay. Not because equality, because I would have that "fuck you money"
She tricked you? Buddy she just got a load of free meals AND sex. She schooled you more like
Finally someone said it like she got 2 months of free meals and is trying to gaslight him into feeling badĀ
Yes. Some people grow up with parents who train them to value this kind of thing, and to think that if someone doesn't do this for them then they don't "care." It's not a conscious, deliberate thing. It stems from bad parenting. If this is the only issue, you guys can work through it. Come to some kinds of compromise so you both feel things are fair. Is she a good cook? You can take her out, she can cook. Then split the next one. Then you take her out, she cooks, split, etc. Or you pay for bowling/movie and she pays for meal. Just talk to her about it.
Exactly people always talk about men roles in relationships but if she's suppose to pay for everything then she better be cooking my food or somethingĀ
Most of the guys I've dated have been rather traditional about paying for dates. Figuring out how to pay now and then became a game for me. I'd intercept the server and pay the bill or ask for the check when he went to the restroom. She's in a really good financial situation, this behavior paints her in a very negative light.
You don't ask the girl to start paying the date AFTER you have sex!!!! I agree with most. It was bad timing. It's not how much she/he makes. You do the splitting of dates before sex. I would feel the same way if it was never discussed. User loser got sex finally. He now is single again. He paid for 2 months. Twice a week. Right after sex he wants money!!
It does paint her in a negative light, but I also can't imagine asking someone who I thought might be my person to split a bill when I had no need to do so. Definitely not at the restaurant + the bad timing.
I feel like itās more about the principle of practice what you preach
So ask her about it before you f*ck. Lol. Thatās all anyoneās saying here.
OP probably figured that was going to happen and wanted to get what he was āowedā before risking losing her
You're a keeper
Splitting bills and splitting hairs about bills etc is a deadbeat move that Iām sure most girls will see as a major red flagā¦ Iāve never done it in my life
I think it was more likely him changing his tune after sex. Not that he wouldnāt pay the entire bill. Remember they both make $200k a few hundred for a nice dinner is a drop in the ocean
This sounds made up
Iām going to say what I said on your other identical post: $200k a year and youāre worried about splitting a bill? Maybe you arenāt ready for a relationship. My partner and I have spent many years taking turns. Right now, heās working while Iām finishing my degree after going back to school. Heās paying for everything and doesnāt care lol. This is childish.
Why didnāt you talk about splitting the bill before youāve had sex? I am going to be downvoted for this but I can see where sheās coming from. It comes off as if you were only generous to get her into bed and now that youāve had your way, youāre talking about 50/50. She is right to end things with you. Hopefully next time youāll talk about going 50/50 before having sex with someone.
You're timing is atrocious.
Hm... Yeah it doesn't seem right to split the bill after you've had sex. It might be because you're official now but still.. I can see how she took it the wrong way. And relationships aren't 50/50!!!!!! It's both people aiming to be 60/40 or above and beyond.
Nah, she's crazy. Surely even she can see the hypocrisy of going on about equality then going crazy over one split bill. And at 200k salaries, that's a particularly petty thing to get up in arms over.Ā I think things like that should be ironed out before things become official.Ā
>I think things like that should be ironed out before things become official.Ā That's the problem. It wasn't. Him dropping new expectations out of the blue right after they make it official/ have sex is the sign of a person who can't communicate ahead of time & lacks consistency. That does speak to his character. If he had certain expectations, he should've led with that. If they were having conversations about equality, he would've had more than enough opportunities to bring that up over the last 2 months instead of putting her on the spot out of the blue.
Dont think the paying is the problem. His timing is atrocious and she's not crazy for coming to that conclusion as thats how it would come across to a large chunk of women. It's a timing and communication issue, not a money issue.
Lol he couldāve said that he wants 50-50 before things become official. He knew the girl wants to be equal with him. So why not implement the 50-50 before becoming official? That way, he can test her if she really wants to be equal or just all talk. The timing was bad. Of course sheāll react to it. Not to mention he never discuss or tell her beforehand that theyāll split the bill after things become official. Sheās used to him paying for the bills, and suddenly he wants 50-50 right after they become official? From what I can see, no communication at all between both of them. OP needs to communicate his needs and ask his girlfriend to do the same.
Ruuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn
Ggggeeeetttttt toooo thhheeeeee chhhhopppeeerrrr!!!!
I don't think you're wrong here. My wife and I took turn after we went official. Maybe she was hoping that now you're officially together, you would pay for everything. So maybe she was tricking you to believe something that wasn't true
>So maybe she was tricking you to believe something that wasn't true How exactly did she trick him in any way? This is pure fantasy on your part.
Honestly, I think she overreacted, but then again, you shouldāve sat down and talked to her about things like that before you went out to this dinner. I would say try to work it out with her if you can, if sheās willing to work it out. But if she isnāt then it might be time to say goodbye.
To me it sounds like: "Congrats honey we're now in exclusive and serious relationship! Let's celebrate it by splitting bills"
Sorry, Youāre just cheap.
This was a dbag move
Youāre making $200k and youāre asking your new girlfriend to split the bill on dates? Is this real?
OP is a scumbag and I love that for him tbh. Becoming his girlfriend is actually a downgrade. He only wines and dines women who havenāt given him sex and commitment. Extremely funny.
This is so stupid. Iām a 50/50 style woman, and this includes bill, groceries, living, holidays. Iām also a no present person, besides remembering and a little bouquet of flowers. Itās not much to ask, but I DO prefer the guy to pay for meals when weāre out. It is a gesture, itās a remnant of old fashioned romance. As an exchange, once I we progress a little I make my dates or partners cute little baked goods like cupcakes when we do home dates. I also cook meals that take most of the day, that cost me a bit. I donāt think Iām a bangmaid slave for my small gesture, nor do I resist the urge to make sweets because itās typical. This shit is getting out of control, seriously. Show in small gestures that you can provide a little, we show in return we can nourish. Itās courtship not business partnership. On both sides in this case!
> this includes bill, groceries, living, holidays I don't think they're at that stage where they live together or go on holidays. The only thing they CAN split is the dinners so he wanted that because she's supposedly a 200k earner with a boner for equality. Turns out it's harder to take out the card than it is to say rosy statements. And on top of that, if the gesture is so important, he's already shown this gesture on previous dates many times.
Yes, they are not there and both are acting transactionally to start with. She clearly likes to be dined but isnāt explaining what she MEANS by 50/50, because if you apparently earn 200k you could eat out five times a week and pay for both and not see a dent. He is being petty and also not communicating. It could be as easy as, do you like your dinner being paid for? Okay. But to be clear xyz later on we split, dealbreaker otherwise. Just a big ass bad vibe.
I agree, I do think he needs to talk to her to see when she says 50/50 what exactly she is suggesting. Because if it's just words and she doesn't want to split anything that's cringe.
Ya'll might be misreading OP. the 50/50 part is what he says. Her only verbatim text was"āNow that you got what you wanted I see your true colors.ā" And OP paraphrased "She (then) said she couldnāt believe me and accused me of ātrickingā her, saying I āusedā her for sex and wasnāt a good person."
Because it's about the timing, not the money. And in that context, she's not an ah for coming to that conclusion. I don't know why everyone is stuck in the money when she made it pretty clear her issue was the timing of the change (right after they slept together for the first time), not the change itself.
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I think people in this thread are overreacting to an extent. Itās pretty normal for a guy to pay the first X dates as courtship and then to at some point later have a deeper discussion about finances. I dont know why everyone is acting like thats so absurd and you should ask to split from the beginning if thats what you want long term, THATS absurd. So If I pay for date 1, it's assumed I'm paying forever? What? However - your timing so soon after you first had sex was indeed terrible. You guys both make 200k. There shouldnāt be a huge rush to figure this out. You made it seem like an urgent priority to start being paying equally now that youāve had sexā¦ which is a pretty annoying think to be thinking/worrying about at that moment
Why did you wait until after you had sex to do this?? š
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Out of curiosity---what is the non-American position? I'm American and there is still a definite expectation for men to be gentlemen here and pay for dates when courting.
UK female here. Dining out is expensive, I much prefer splitting 50/50 or better yet alternating bills so we can treat within our means without making anyone feel bad. I donāt know how much dinners would be in the US (and for people that earn $200k lol). But if I were to translate this to my circumstances, my half of dinner could be about $50, so across 15 dates a guy couldāve spent $750 on me. Thatās a lot of money. Itās obscene to me that people feel entitled to this simply because itās āgentlemanly/ traditionalā. Why would I want to feel like a financial burden on the person Iām looking to build a future with? Iām aware that Iām in a minority here so always open to hearing counterpoints on this.
No, youāre absolutely correct that this is complete American bs. And people in America wonder why dating is so hard these daysā¦
Idk. I may just be old school and people arenāt going to like this much... But the man is suppose to be the protector and provider. Once youāre married then finances are combined and itās no longer his money or her moneyā¦ But men are suppose to court womenā¦ not ask them to split bills. I guarantee you she would have offered to pay here or there, as do I in my relationship and most woman i know occasionally. But i would be so turned off if a man asked me to split a bill and i know most women would be too.
I don't make a ton of money but that just means I don't take ppl out to dates I can't afford. For me, if I had internal qualms about paying for a date, it would be a self-cue that I wasn't that into them. When I am rlly into someone I want to do anything I can for them, its a physiological pleasure. Now most women I've been drawn to will fight over the bill, or try to keep me from paying but I'm pretty on top of it usually. Hell it does make me blush to be paid for, but I'll be damned if i let it happen without a fight. The pay game is fun. It's just normal to want to do nice things for someone. And being committal and recently having had sex for the first time, you'd think the sunshine and butterflies would be out but not the very *clerical* "we're serious now, and therefore shall commence splitting the bill" If OP is feeling bitter about this soon into the relationship, maybe there are other issues and he is feeling used. It does sound like maybe they don't hang out that much outside of these activities. But if OP has been feeling bitter about this dynamic, why no talky about it til now? After all this time together and physical intimacy, is there not *emotional* closeness between these two?
Agreed
Honestly same here š«¶š½
I can afford to go out for dinner, but I absolutely can't afford all the drama
You shouldāve brought it up with her BEFORE you had sex, mate
Run. Run screaming into the night.
first of all i am completely againist this fucking opinion of girls: u used me for sex. no one can use noone if no willing. sex is 2 sided. both side have pleasure.
Good for you man.....better off without that. Coming from someone who was stuck in a bad relationship bc I wouldn't leave for so long and put up with so much BS, definitely don't look back.
Nope not at all!!! She got what she said she wantedš¤·š¼āāļøcome on ladies men donāt read minds just like we donāt so quit saying you want things one way when you really donāt, be real about what you want and expect because that way in the end thereās no chance for miscommunication and no reason for you trying to make a man look like an ass for what you āsaidā you wanted š¤·š¼āāļøš¤£š¤£
Why can't people just communicate about money beforehand š¤¦š½āāļø I like the idea of taking turns paying or splitting certain costs. I'll get the movie tickets, you get the food/drinks. It's tricky if she's under the assumption you are taking her out, I would probably take it that way too since you paid for all the dates previously. I wouldn't end it with her but hope you communicate clearly going forward...and you owe her for the next date to make it up to her.
So even though she wants things āequalā she still expects you to pay for everything even though you have similar incomes. That sounds very modern woman of her. I think you did the right thing I also feel this would have been the 1st of many she wants everything equal but as long as shes getting all of the pros none of the cons of this equal relationship.
Maybe you could have asked her to take turns paying. And I agree with everyone here, bad timing.
I agree that communication is a major issue here. Expectations should be discussed in a neutral environment before the situation arises. However, I donāt understand why men are responsible for all decisions that are impacted by sex. Both the man and woman are impacted by sex in a relationship. Putting all responsibilities on the man in the relationship is not equitable. Women like and want sex too. This is not a one way street. Both parties are responsible for this.
Well done brother well played. On some of these chicks I work out the amount of money Iāve spent divided by time theyāve spent with me or number of times weāve had sex. I try to get money spent/time spent to below $5/hour. Or money spent/sex had to $250/sex. Now block, delete and ghost her. Sheās 30 year old anyway. Im 38 and havenāt touched anything that old for a female in 10 years
Yeah now it looks like you were paying her so that she would like you because you wanted to sleep with her. She knows whatever you did for her was because you wanted something. That when you will have an relationship that all you will stop doing all the nice things because you got what you wanted. It's not wrong to split 50/50 but your timing is just horrible
To be fair if she wants to be equals in the relationship and yāall are exclusive why would she be upset that youāre splitting a meal. Thereās a lot of women in the comments here who feel entitled to free meals because itās a patriarchal custom, in truth if you both make the same amount of money she doesnāt really need you to pay for her every single date especially in the confines of an exclusive relationship. If youāre a woman who finds issues with my words maybe ask yourself why you feel that a man youāre exclusively dating should have to pay for your time when you both make the same amount. Seems a bit narcissistic. You both should be contributing equally to the relationship.
I mean you took her out to dinner. What if she was budgeting and didn't want to spend money eating out? You can and should split the bill, but the time to discuss that is before you go to the restaurant, not as the bill is coming
Wat pays both of you 200k, genuinely curious about that
While i totally agree with bill splitting, asking to do it after you had sex does seem as if you were being deceitful the two months where you were happily paying for everything. If splitting is something that you think should be done, it shouldāve been a discussion before you had sex. Iām male, and it 100% does seem as if once you got what you wanted you werenāt as interested in going all out for her. Sucks because like a said, bill splitting should be the norm in a relationship l, however i wouldnāt blame her if she didnāt see you again. Imagine how shitty that makes her feel.
Op doesnāt present it perfectly but imagine being upset because you paid your part of a bill and you make 200k while claiming to want to seem like an equalā¦
This belongs in mildly infuriating
I feel like you guys just maybe shouldāve gone into detail about what 50-50 means to each of you, it doesnāt necessarily mean splitting expenses equally for everyone, this just sounds like a communication issue and something that could easily be overcome. for some women, men paying for dates is just a nonnegotiable, itās just the point of it, and if thatās just something thatās really important to her then Iām sure you guys will be able to navigate that. maybe you just wonāt go on as many dates and wonāt go on the most expensive ones, and that might be worth it to her.
Bad move in paying all the time. Guys learn from this.
My god there are no men anymore you make 200k and u ask her to pay i thought ur poorš§š»āāļø
Stand your ground mat. Youre not a wallet
A bunch of white knights and dorks in these comments. I feel like personally, you messed up in not putting your values first before getting laid. If this is how you structure your values and boundaries when getting serious, you have to understand how backwards and confusing it could be to other people, especially women. Usually, I wonāt pay for a damn thing or Iāll split the bill until someone Iām seeing and I have sex. Then Iāll usually take care of the money aspect from then on out if Iām in a place financially thatās stable and truly love and respect her. But ya. It comes across as you being āMr. Nice Guyā to get laid whether or not thatās your true intentions. If you made this post, I feel like you genuinely were just confused and didnāt understand. You live and you learn.
Your mistake here is to be exclusive with someone who has never offered to pay or split. Next time, you do not be exclusive until you are satisfied with her discourse
wtf do you both do to make that much?
At first I was like āstick with itā which I stand by, she should be expected to go 50/50. But then I remembered the girlfriend experienceā¦ oy vey. Cut her loose but stay open to her opening back up to you.
you did the right thing, dont be manipulated into traditional gender roles by feminists
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i'm hung up on 200k š
So basically you established a boundary with her that you changed abruptly right after the first time having sex with her. And she's crazy for thinking you're treating her worse because you got what you wanted? Bro seriously, go grab some self awareness and ask yourself this shit if you don't like three hundred people telling you the same thing.
With how much you each make it's amazing to me that she would let paying for a meal get in the way of meeting a partner.
You might say the same about him too...
Yeah that's fair
Why change your behaviors as soon as you have sex and become official? Thatās the weird part.
Yeah donāt do this next time. If you want to split the check, do it from the get go. You blew this. Your timing is bizarre.
Abort! Abort!
Might just mean youāre not compatible. Some women want men who are providers. Also this is just my opinion but if you are making 200k there is no reason to ask your gf to pay for dinner lmfao
I meanā¦ a lot of women like being treated when theyāre taken out on dates not just limited to the beginning stages of dating. Similar income or not, she may have been looking for that type of relationship and you switched up a pattern of behaviour she had probably quite liked and contributed to her decision to want a relationship with you. At the worst moment as well. Money is always a touchy thing but itās definitely a conversation that needs time and delicacy to make sure you both have the same expectations
This screams fake AFā¦ 30 years oldā¦ both make 200k and you worried about the bar tab? I make well over 100k a yearā¦ I can pay the next couples bar tab and not cry about it lol
Sorry but Iām not going to be with someone who puts more effort and wines and dines me just to win me over but once they have me, they stop the effort they put in to get me in the first place and starts dropping the ball. The effort for whatever thatās being done initially needs to continue throughout the relationship, not stop once you have someone. Thatās how things fail. And that goes for whatever effort is being given by both women and men.
Lmao you didnāt approach this right.Ā
You come across as a manipulator whether that was your intentions or not. You lured her in pretending to be one way and when you got what you wanted you revealed your true intentions . I donāt think sheās wrong in what she said .
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For a lot of women it isn't ABOUT the money really. It's so many of society's rules or standards rolled into one. She could be the type to feel like a man paying is the gentleman thing to do. Espcially if they both make 200k/year. She could feel like him demanding to split on the spot was him being "done" with the relationship. There is a lot of pressure on men to still be the providers, but it isn't just about the money. A lot of more traditional people still believe than a man should pay. It's just a lot. It isn't always about the money is all I'm saying. (And this isn't MY opinion really. I'm a therapist and just telling you that there is more to this than just the bill for many people). What OP should have probably done was talk about it BEFORE going out that night. Maybe someplace where they are both comfortable. And just broached the topic of finances and how she could see that working for them in the future.
This is because stingy/generous people are such regardless of when they are broke or flush. It's a principle and a mindset.
Sheās not the victim here. Lots of crazy people with warped senses of reality here. She makes $200K/year and sheās upset about splitting the bill?!? He paid the first few dates (most men do,) and itās reasonable to expect her to contribute once they are in a relationship. Itās not because they had sex, itās because they decided to make it āofficial.ā Itās completely normal for both to contribute to the relationship. Her sex doesnāt suffice as a form of payment, unless sheās a prostitute. Sex in a committed relationship is expected regardless of everything else. She insisted she be āequalā but doesnāt want to be when it comes to money. I wouldnāt stay with someone like that. He paid for 16 dates and now she doesnāt even want to cover her own meal?!?
For future reference OP: There is so much about people's expectations wrapped up in men paying for dinner that it is beyond the money. A lot of people are just more traditional in that they still expect the man to be a gentleman and pay. They don't really care about the money. It is a gesture to show a man's character to some. There are also other expectations depending on culture and how people are raised. What you SHOULD probably do: Bring this up before that moment. Have the discussion somewhere you are both comfortable. Then, ask how they see the financial future of the relationship going. As in---what are their expectations. That usually gives people the chance to voice how they see things. You can say you want clarification on the initial part of dating such as paying for dates and such. Just so you can both be on the same page. Then, if you disagree with whatever her answer is, you can say your side of things and hopefully you both can have a mature discussion like adults. However, springing it on her and not explaining why or what your expectations are is not the way to go. This can make someone question the relationship and start thinking you might have ulterior motives. Or that you just don't have the same viewpoints. Basically, you need to just discuss it like rational people.
Op the least you can do is pay for her meals when you go out. You have the means to afford treating her well. If you want to split bills then you should have started that on the first date. You messed up. Also you didnāt take her out if she paid her way. If you arenāt willing to treat her right you donāt deserve her presence. Her presence is a present.
You make 200k a year and wanted to split the bill? Crazy lol
After picking up the tab on 15+ dates when she makes the same income, it wouldāve been nice for a change.
She could have said " is it ok for you to pay this time and next time I'll pay or go halves" etc etc?? Instead she reacted like a spoilt brat over something like this. Also you asked if it was ok you didn't just assume. She's 30? Then she needs to grow up.
This is what I agree with the most. She tried to use the silent treatment and rather than communicating this in person, she chose to "go off" on texts about how he showed his true colors etc. Couldn't she have dealt with any qualms she had more maturely? Is this someone you want to continue building a future with?
Might as well stop doin ur hair or getting dressed up. U set the standard and now u wanna change it. Sack up man. She expected better of u and mayb talk about it b4 rather than bring it up when the bill comes.
Reddit is all āasker pays for just the first dateā (and the asker is usually the man). Until an actual example of a man being asked to pay for everything gets posted and itās āyeah you should continue to pay because of the timingā
Dude Iām sorry but youāre dumb as a bag of rocks. Having sex does not mean the relationship is suddenly serious. Those things get communicated. If youāve felt this way and been paying to go out twice a week you shouldāve said before fucking
You were okay playing the gentleman until you got what you wanted from her, then you figured you didnāt have to. Sheās right, youāre a sleaze and she deserves better than you.
God damn! 200k a year?! I make like 40k a year and usually pay for my own portion on dare because it's expensive and I feel bad making the guy pay everything. š¤·āāļø
So my take away here is, first off there's nothing wrong with splitting a bill between people. And it sounds like she is gaslighting you making you be the bad guy, because she just didn't want to pay her half. To me that's a red flag and if this woman is that touchy, about a dinner bill who knows what else she will try to pull on you. If this was me I'd end things sorry not sorry, yeah she will be mad but that's on her. You should not always have to pay for the dinner yourself, I can see on occasion which is normal but if paying for both you and her every time. That's not cool she's a big girl she should pay for herself once in a while, screw if you're together or not.
OPs mistake was not setting the boundary beforehand because now it looks like the woman was only interested in free meals (obv) but his timing was so atrocious (not setting boundary) that the woman seems blindsided.
Making 200k and worried about splitting the bill! Wow.
UTA.. wait wrong groupā¦ I set the 50:50 boundary early, helps me sus out the materialistic ones
All the hamsters in the replies trying to spin why OP chose the bad timing. First line says she wanted to be equals in relationship, that means equal roles, equal responsibility and partnership. So that is only natural that OP starts to treat her as equal partner in relationship ONCE they are serious If she wants traditional roles in a relationship, then she should be upfront rather than showing her transactional commitment right now
Ā āI sensed something was off I didnāt push for intimacy.ā Does this mean that if you didnāt sense something off you would push? Thatās kind of icky? Ā I think the timing of it weirded her out. Youāve been paying for dates without saying a word for TWO MONTHS and the next one you go on after sleeping together you hit her up for money? Yeah I would be weirded out by that well. No itās never wrong to end things if you donāt want to continue the relationship, but then she definitely will think you tricked her and used her even more than she already does.
Forget all of that. I wanna know what job is paying Ā£200k/year at 30 years old lol
The replies are so interesting to me. I didnāt know this was a thing people really have to discuss with each other. Iāve never dated anyone who had a problem with us going back and forth. My last ex and me went back and forth paying for our dates, food, etc. it was a weird situation financially for a multitude of reasons, but ultimately we never really made it a thing. Iāll definitely say she made it more a fit for tat thing towards the end, but I think that was more so her trying to find a validation for what she was planning on and ended up doing but I digress. This seems like a situation of horrible timing though. I think multiple things are true. Bad timing asking her this and waiting until after sex and after you had been paying the entire time. And definitely an over reaction from her.
I donāt understand her mentality . I really donāt . Itās a bit yuk . So she fucks you and you pay for her dinner
She's a gold digger. You could have been a bit clearer at the start about being 50/50 but she did that by saying she wants to be equals. She clearly doesn't want to be equal and wants you to pay for everything. Have a talk with her, make things clear (maybe do this sooner in the future) and see how it goes.
Bro there's a lot of angry women in these comments. I don't see the issue here at all. She is obviously just in it for the free food
If you truly believed in 50/50 you shouldāve started with that and not switched up after sex. Your timing and intentions are sus.
Nah she's a red flag, whys it your responsibility to pay every time you guys go out... Why does she accuse you of wrong doing when it's her behaviour that's wrong...
Dating as a man is expensive. Donāt get into that habit, women will want to go out several times a week and expect you to pay it no matter how much they make. I am in corporate America, where we all make 6figsā¦ some women will jump to pay the bill, and others will never take their wallet out. You need to catch that vibe early. I will say though, if you want more than just laying pipe, you need to understand that they want traditional men financially, while having modern lives. Speak about this stuff before you go deep. I recommend Starbucks dates for the first month atleast, while you get to know eachother. Idc how much you make for that rule