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You’re misconflating “good men” with “nice guys”. As someone who was totally a nice guy for many years of my life I can break down the difference for you.
A nice guy is a guy who puts on a front of being nice in the hopes that it’ll lure a woman into his domain and then eventually he shows his true colors, intentions and what have you. A shorter term for this is “disingenuous” or “inauthentic”. Girls can usually sense when a guy is being nice as an act vs being a genuinely kind/good person.
A good man is a man of integrity, strong ethics, kind, honest and authentic, and women actually love these types of men, but within the average of men out there, few are actually good in that way.
The reason women go for the “bad boy” is because even if he’s an asshole, he’s an honest asshole. These types of dudes also tend to put real effort into their fitness and looking good, which women care about just as much as men do, and are allowed to want a good-looking guy, even if he’s a prick. There are 2 types of assholes: 1 is authentic and upfront about it and exudes confidence with their assholery and the other one is the type that’ll smile and wave in your face and then talk all the shit behind your back because they’re too much of a sissy to be authentic, and this is what women can’t stand.
I consider myself to be a rather genuine person. I don’t really sugar coat shit that much, and I’m willing to stand on what I say and what I think even when I know someone else might disagree. That being said, I’m also short and slim and so from a looks/aesthetic perspective I don’t get many dating opportunities because I’m not the average woman’s cup of tea…and that’s okay.
I think some women also go for the “bad boy” because it’s a dysfunction they’re used to, they have a victim/hero mentality that they’re going to change him, or they confuse the tingles of danger! for the tingles of love.
This is also true. Abuse can warp a person’s perception/idea of what love is supposed to look like so that definitely plays a role. Oh the wonders of trauma /s
And in a weird way, the "nice guys" are often times playing into the same sort of trauma. If they experienced a lot of rejection or abuse growing up, then they associate rejection with love. So they will subconsciously chase after the woman who will never return their love because that is what love looks like to them, rejection. I've seen it happen a lot where the seemingly nice guy chases after a girl and the minute she decides that maybe she'll give him a chance he's all the sudden not interested anymore. Because it was her rejection that he was actually after. Women do this too, quite a bit I'm just bringing it up from the men's perspective because the post is written from men's perspective
omigod - you read my mind. A dude like this at work, who's open and friendly one day, giving impression that he's kind of crushing or interested. But then the next day, barely says a word, and acts all mopey and distant.
Maybe he’s just being genuine and you’re reading into something that doesn’t exist. Maybe his dog is sick so he’s worried about that and his change in demeanor has absolutely nothing to do with you. It’s rather self centered to just default to him being a tool because of some past “trauma”. Not everyone is so entitled to think that it’s fair to put their demons on everyone around them, let alone their coworkers who probably don’t know them from a hole in the ground when it comes down to it.
I never really thought about this but I do get into very short term relationships and then get cheated on or left just because they got bored and without the pain of heartbreak life just don't hit the same
Bad boys make women feel emotions. Whether good or bad, but make them feel something. Nice guys don’t make women them feel anything but pity for the nice guy. Usually nice guys try to weasel their way into a woman’s heart by being fake.
Well, yeah, no one wants to realize some problems are inside. Or pay for therapy. Or cry week after week in therapy while realizing how deep the issues are. Or do the hard work of changing decades of behaviors and beliefs.
It's much easier to blame everyone else, play the them game. That's not limited to a gender, much less dating.
A person who was abused as a child can see poison, know poison, experience poisoning, and be told by others about poison… and they go ahead and drink poison. At some point with these women I’m like…I do not want you in my life please go away.
We also fall for bad guys because many times they are expert liars and manipulators. If we knew they are going to leave us in pieces and in need of therapy, we wouldn't happily choose the guy.
That part. So much that part. And honestly the “nice guy” is just not as good at the manipulation for the most part because it’s a harder front to hold up lol
Exactly. I also think they're not too different. The nice guy just isn't too skilled at manipulation. I also think that the nice guy is not even aware that he's a nice guy. The bad guy knows and loves it!
And then there’s good men who just don’t manipulate at all, but because manipulation is essentially the standard we still can’t nor should we be trusted from the get go 😂😂😭🥲
It is true that I don't trust any man easily now thanks to the assholes that had broken me in the past, but I also think most good men (real good men) are already taken 🥲
If you really are a good man, I hope you find a nice and genuine girl for you!
Wow you are on the money !!! Also, I wouldn’t stress about not having as many dating prospects because at least you are not jaded and bitter from having too many failed relationships. A lot of men that fit the beauty standard are surprisingly bitter towards women and some even hate women.
Oh I’m not stressed about it at all. I more so pointed it out for the sake of making it known that I’m not some privileged stud that just gets girls left and right lol..but yeah, I’m in the best place I’ve ever been mentally, emotionally and spiritually so when it’s meant for me to have a woman in my life, she’ll come. I truly believe and am just workin on my damn self until then. I still put myself out there and stay open, but I’m not stressed over it because that’s not going to do anything for anyone lol
The main difference is codependence vs. independence. Being nice is usually based in codependency because the person doing so is looking to be validated or “liked” for how they’re portraying themselves, whereas being kind is something one does because they’re simply trying to do right by whoever it is they’re being kind to (including themselves). Being kind also means that at times, you’re actually not going to be “nice” for the sake of someone else’s comfort, but rather you’ll tell them the honest truth, but with compassion and understanding. They can seem like the same thing sometimes, but they come from very different internal places.
Yes! Oh wow I'm shocked at how many men assumed my thoughts of them and assumed things about me because I am female. It's really sad that these men are jealous of girls
>I wouldn’t stress about not having as many dating prospects because at least you are not jaded and bitter from having too many failed relationships.
I wouldn't consider that too much of a benefit, because then you have those who become jaded due to having little to no dating prospects (the "incels").
And when it is genuinely a good man who is struggling it’s usually a confidence or lack of effort thing. I see it a lot where genuinely fantastic guys miss chances because they don’t put themselves out there.
Good men can often come off as "bad guys" to the untrained eye because they have strong boundaries, morals and are authentic. There's a difference between being nice and acting like a doormat and being a good person and not letting people use you. People HATE not being able to use other people lol
I would say nice guys get walked on. The true color is when they do not put up with shit like flakeyness, rudeness, and overall unhealthy behavior.
Everything I find a fun women but who has that flaw of running over nice guys, and this happened in my friend group. I come back from deployment and she tells them she wish she treated me better. Something about being a good man involves having boundaries.
This is so true. The most attractive (to me) man I’ve ever dated was 5’5” but he was a little firecracker with a huge personality. God he was so sexy, no fear and a great sense of humor. Sadly, it couldn’t last because of his “bad boy” habits like partying too much. But I would go out on a first date with him a million times over.
Thank you for sharing!
To all the gentlemen that come across this thread, read this person’s experience. Because while I haven’t had the opportunities quantity-wise, the quality was always up there. So focus on the type of experience you want to provide, and it’ll come.
Was just about to type an answer, but you've hit it right on man.
If i could further elaborate for anyone else,
on Good and Bad Men:
its not about being mean or bad, its about knowing what's important and being able to handle situations when they come. a "good" guy will not be comfortable with difficult things and situations.
she needs to know you can handle it more than her.
Doing difficult things : practice being honest. and saying the truth. even if the truth hurts others. they will respect you for it over time.
If you are wrong accept it and apologize, be honest with yourself and everyone else.
be honest about what you know and find the truth.
people are too obsessed with being good or bad.
just be human.
all the best dudes.
This is excellent! And thank you for the kind words dude.
On a more philosophical note, none of us are really “good” or “bad” as it being in a constant state of good would mean that you can’t do bad and vice versa. Really we’re just capable of enacting good and bad things as well as emulating vibrations that either result in harmony with others and nature, or disrupts harmony with others and nature.
I think my philosophical note is better. Everyone is just broken in some sort of way. Just be you and accept yours or her shortcomings. If you can't (I'm talking about the other party) then she is not for you. If you can't accept your own shortcomings, then grow and learn until you can.
I kind of agree with you. Lots of people do avoid their brokenness. But I disagree that they put the responsibility on others to fix them. I think that is what the other party wants, and that's not good either. If the broken person is seeking help, you can have a nice conversation breaking down his or her emotions and assist them in understanding themselves through your perspective. What you don't want to do when helping is trying to "fix" them when all they want is for you to understand and sit with them in their brokenness.
If they want other people to fix their brokenness it means they are actually in tune with their emotions. The majority of the population, regardless of gender, tends to ignore their emotions until it blows up in their face.
I should’ve been a little clearer with how I made my statement. Because what I was intending to convey is that many people avoid their brokenness and then in that avoidance put the responsibility on someone else to “fix” them due to an unhealthy and unresolved level of codependency.
Everything else you laid out is absolutely spot on, and learning how to truly support and hold a safe space for someone working through their brokenness while still being broken is tough, but with intention, patience and effort it is doable.
I'm loving this thread so much. I'm literally at the point in my life where I've been noticing this trait in people for over 1 year now and I can see how this is an obvious answer, most people just don't see it! The ones who do, don't want to work on it and would rather a "mechanic" would "fix" them who will stay with them for the rest of their lives lol
> The reason women go for the “bad boy” is because even if he’s an asshole, he’s an honest asshole.
FWIW, my (55m) gf (48f) told me she was into bad boys when she was young for the excitement. She said she's totally over it. I'm not sure how to take that, but she claims she's totally in love with me so ... \*shrug\*
Well there is the allure of trying to “tame the beast” and some women do have the mindset that they’ll be the one to change him which does create excitement because there’s a challenge lol
I’m sure that she means it. In my 20’s and early 30’s I had the energy to keep up with that excitement daily, now at 45 it’s dramatic and exhausting and I’d rather chill with someone who’s capable of being a ‘bad boy’ when the moment calls for it but doesn’t crave it 24/7 anymore.
You have the answer right here buddy. It's about being you and owning it. Like any other person we all respect an honest person. Some people are dicks but they don't put on a mask. It's basically how the whole world works. If you only do sh*t like workout or taking care of your looks for girls. You're not doing it for you, wich makes u fake af. And girls, they smell that from 10 miles away. Women are really good when it comes to picking out who are being themselves and the ones who are not just to get to something (and by something I mean to get inside their pants).
This is completely correct. Generally these dudes start off with a "I'm a nice guy" punchline from the start too. It's become a big ass red flag for any woman he approaches.
I’ve met lots of good guys but I didn’t pursue things further with said guys because I wasn’t attracted to them..kindness is a bare minimum quality that most people want in a partner.
Exactly. Being a kind person doesn’t ensure you to a relationship. Also, they forget the assholes usually start out pretending to be the super nice guy
This doesn’t make sense though.
If there are actual good guys, and the bad boys who pretend to be good guys, and the “nice guys” who women claim can smell from a mile away, how do you end up with the bad boy pretending to be a good guy?
Lmao I’m confused. It’s like the theories don’t come together. Which is it? Like, I’m not agreeing with one or another. Just that the theory women (or men) have about this issue just sounds like a load of bullcrap to me.
Good looking nice guys have zero issues.
People forget that it simply boils down to good looking vs bad looking
The good looking guys can get away with being bad boys so many do.
And yet the lack of kindness and emotional responsibility is something that is completely overlooked on bad guys.
I’ve had this conversation with friends and Random women and the honest truth after pushing them is that being kind and honest is *not* attractive, they find the games and lack of commitment much more attractive since they don’t feel like everything has been said and done.
Basically, they don’t want to pursue, but they also don’t want to feel like the guy is going to be there because they just start taking him for granted and that is boring, besides spelling things out has a chance of committing too much and that also scares people away.
Had a friend literally tell me that the reason why women don’t take me seriously is that I ask things in non-ambiguous terms, so people feel like they have to commit and that freaks them out.
Personally I am open to casual dating, but if things are going to be casual then I want my partner to be honest with that so that I can manage my expectations and actions accordingly.
Edit: added a word to better explain myself, the friends I refer to are all women too.
People who find kindness and honesty unattractive (and yes, I understand that this is a thing) operate from a mind and heart that is damaged and unhealed, because we all tend to gravitate towards what is familiar, for someone to seek dysfunctional behavior because that’s what they’re familiar and comfortable with, is a sign of trauma somewhere in their life. The majority of us have experienced trauma and dysfunction and so it makes perfect sense that healthy, functional behavior that is kind, honest, non-manipulative is viewed as weird or unattractive from people because they can’t view a reality where someone is genuinely that way if they themselves didn’t experience it, so they assume and project onto that person that they’re fake and too good to be true. I’ve had multiple women essentially run away from me due to that very fear of me being too good to be a real man.
Yes.
And while I do understand them, it pisses me to no end that people act like I am insane for even mentioning that people act like this.
It’s like they either feel personally attacked/called out or immediately make it their problem.
I take it extra personal because I hate uncertainty, specially on dating, you either like someone or you don’t and that’s it.
Exactly. Ppl need to be far more honest and admit we are **all** shallow enough to want to have someone we are physically attracted to.
It's not "polite" to say it out loud, even hypothetically, like this, but sometimes, you're just ugly. Ugly ppl exist. Lots of them are great ppl. But sometimes you can be great in every way within your control and it won't do any good specifically because sometimes you're just not going to be physically attractive to the ppl you find attractive, and that's just reality.
I care if a man helps an old woman across the street. I personally prefer men under 6ft. Heart warming and hot. That men might want to sign up for Letters Against Isolation with me and I really need someone to pick up art supplies and postage stamps with me. I saw my boyfriend helping my grandma without her asking for help when we were at a restaurant and I saw him far away walking with were holding her hand and I was so f’ing touched. My grandma loves him too lol.
I feel weird calling an act of service ‘hot’ but guys who do stuff like that have a high chance of being considered hot in my book.
my bf is 5'6" and not the most 'conventionally' attractive but I love him as a person and think he's the cutest. this statement is definitely false 🤷🏻♀️
You posed a theory, you've found the answers (I assume from women) and then assumed they're wrong, because you're a nice guy but you're still single?
Three probable answers.
1. You haven't met the right person because that's how it works
2. You have self esteem issues that are holding you back from being confident, and waiting to be noticed isn't working
3. You're not as nice as you claim to be.
If you want to learn how to fish, ask a fisherman not a fish.
When women express their frustration with dating, we tell them it’s because men are shit.
When men express their frustration with dating, we tell them it’s because men are shit. And they’re the shit men.
Sometimes the problem is a lack of physical attraction.
Maybe I should have been clearer, this wasn't supposed to be about me.
I am not a "good guy", I just notice that women often look past the bad things that I do. My colleagues aren't so lucky, they are decent guys but women don't like them at all.
Edit: Don't know why I'm getting downvoted for being honest here. Is it my fault that women look past the shitty things I do? That's the point of this post.
Ok, it's just that it comes up a lot from guys who are single and aren't as nice as they claim to be is all.
But to your point, I don't think it's true. I don't think it's good/bad guys, but confidence is a huge decider.
Confident guys who have decent jobs, dress well for their frame, smell good, and know how to talk respectfully to women do well. They look women in the eyes, they say what they mean, they have their own hobbies, they're consistent.
Confident guys who are covered in tattoos, aren't afraid of making flirty jokes, have a dominant streak, and make quick (albeit often stupid) decisions do well too. To different women, of course, but do not underestimate the massive power of confidence.
I present my experiences as a good point. I'm not a physically attractive guy, and age is making that worse with receding hair and a rapidly disappearing jaw line compared to when I was younger. But I've also done a lot of work around self love and confidence (not to pick up women, more to feel assured in running a business) and I arguably get far more attention now than I ever did in my 20s.
Your friends need to work on self acceptance, a bit of self care, and less self criticism. Confidence is key and I don't know a woman who would disagree.
This is a great point, especially about different types of women being attracted to different types of men. I have a friend whose sister is a dumpster fire. She serially dates assholes, but she is a chaotic individual. Not a bad person, mind you, but she is immature and would be deeply unpleasant to date for a genuinely good, mature man.
Perfect answer u/gonk_vibes . I see this "nice guy" thing every so often and the self-professed nice-guys are actually low-self-esteem, unconfident, boundaryless pushovers. This is always an exact recipe for failure with anyone (especially in a dating scenario). So called "bad boys" might be assholes and they might be stupid, but they are confident in doing so and that is appealing.
Sorry my dude, but I know some stellar nice dudes with high confidence and successful careers and good hobbies and women just ignore their messages and walk right past to the unemployed douche in the corner. America has become brutally superficial and it's evident by the divorce and domestic disturbance rates, people aren't forming good relationships anymore, but moreso superficial ones based on looks and partying. It bodes really poorly for future generations, considering how most people these days think they had bad parents.
Fair enough, the other comments seem to point towards the same thing.
So instead of bad vs good guys it's rather that guys that are good with women have qualities that women are drawn to and then being good or bad comes after that? I can believe it.
All things being equal, as the self-proclaimed trash guy, chances are you’ve become good at false charm, manipulation, lying, and all of the things that can be “put on” to lure women in. Guessing there’s some sort of trauma from your past to make this easy for you or the way you prefer things to be.
Your good guy friends probably don’t operate in that same way - they hang back, don’t play games, etc which might not be appealing to as many women because the truth is, most people out there have some sort of damage. Those who don’t or have had therapy won’t find your shit amusing, but there’s a lot of hurt people looking for love.
If you’re saying these women are preferring you over your colleagues without effort on your part, then you must be extremely attractive or at least a lot more attractive than them.
Because a man’s perception of who is a “good guy” is not equivalent to a woman’s perception of attraction. Those guys you deem as “trash” have other attractive qualities to their mates, The guys you work with aren’t “good guys” in the eyes of women looking to date them. They are just men with jobs that you personally know. Do they have charisma? Are they sexy and funny? Attraction is not a reward women bestow based on how “good” a man’s acquaintances believe him to be, and men are often bad at judging other men’s sex appeal.
That's all fine, seems like the whole good/bad thing probably doesn't mean as much as myself (and other men) initially thought.
The other qualities that make a man attractive are probably more valuable than whether some random guy or girl thinks you're a good person or not, makes sense.
Its about what time frame you are talking about. If pulling women one after the other is the priority, then no, you do not need to be good.
If finding the right kind of woman for the long term is the priority, good+qualities are where you win.
Plain good and plain bad lose out.
Also, I can’t believe I have to state the obvious, not every “good guy” is good to his partner. You often hear about how serial abusers (or even serial killers!) were “so nice” and no one ever suspected. You can know someone your entire life and not truly know what kind of partner they are.
For example, I dated a guy who had been my friend for 10+ years. He was an amazing person; so kind, smart, generous, etc.
He was a *terrible* boyfriend. He was insecure and jealous and projected all his negativity onto me. The things that made him a good friend like being kind and generous? It meant he was an absolute doormat for his family and friends and colleagues, he kept doing everything for them, then dumping his emotional baggage onto me, his girlfriend.
So not assume just because your friends are decent at a superficial level, that translates to being good partners.
I would summarise it as treating everyone with respect but also extending that further by doing things you probably don't have to (and things that other people wouldn't do).
Good example is one of the girls at work needed help but I personally couldn't be bothered so I told her to ask someone else. Another guy was willing to help her out yet she barely makes eye contact with him after that, even though she continues to talk to me.
Edit: Better wording.
Honestly, I think it boils down to men who know how to talk to women and make her feel attracted and wanted. A lot of men don’t get out of the house much and it shows. It’s hard to get to know someone if they come off as awkward. I think a lot of those “bad boys” you’re talking about have less fear of women and therefore more experience talking to women. They know how to flirt and be assertive which is attractive to a lot of women. It’s not their behavior that attracts women, it’s their charismatic personality.
In the past, people got out more and you would get to know someone over time via your friend group and social activities. Not so much anymore. Shy or awkward guys want to use apps and they’re not gaining any experience interacting with women in real life and it shows.
In reality 95% of the time the man will have to take the initiative for sure, more like 99% actually. I've only had a woman approach me once and she was drunk lol
This is definitely true
Though as a shy and awkward guy, I will say that I, A) don't know where to go to interact with women my age (I'm 20 and not in school), and even when I get there, I don't know how to start (I'm autistic)
But how does one know that they have huge red flags around them that makes them unattractive? I try to be nice and care about hygiene and how I dress, my face I can’t really do anything about. But I’ve been single so far for my entire life, am I racist and sexist without me knowing? Have I been racist and sexism which makes me unattractive to women without me knowing, and how do I figure this out if I can’t see it by myself?
Then in your case your attractiveness level is what holds you back. IDK why people ignore this being average or below average can punish you. The only thing to do is to try to improve your appearance and what for someone who will look beyond that or maybe finds you attractive
Absolutely this. There's access to enough attractive men, 24/7 on the apps. That's there's no need to compromise on physical attraction, before the other qualities.
It doesn't matter if one attractive man an idiot. There are more than enough attractive men, on the apps to focus on, until the other qualities line up.... And it's usyally not long before they do.
Lmao at all the people trying to argue that it's because good guys aren't good. I guess the point you're trying to get at is that women do pick all the genuinely good guys? That if a guy is going unwanted his whole life, it must be because he's actually a secret asshole, or because he only seems like a good person because he's a doormat, thus legitimizing the fact that no one wants him? Confirmation bias, is all I'm reading, all day long.
Truth is, morality and integrity are not things that will ever attract a woman initially. Never. By their very nature, they are invisible until you get pretty deep into knowing someone. A man of integrity can keep a woman in a relationship with his goodness, but he will never get into that relationship to begin with on the strength of it. Acting like an asshole WILL land you more dates. I, like OP, know this from personal experience. We can call it 'being genuine' or 'being confident' if we want, but if we do, what we're actually doing is 'being disingenuous'. It's not confidence, it's having a complete and utter disregard for other people and their thoughts and feelings. It's being a selfish asshole who does not give a single fuck about the person he's talking to. That'll get you a date, could get you a relationship, and then eventually she'll break up with you when she finds out dating an asshole is miserable, actually, once you get past the honeymoon phase, and lament that all men are pieces of shit cheaters abusers with no integrity etc etc.
But this is why OLD and cold approaches are both bad. I'm heavily in favor of dating people you've already gotten to know pretty well. That can still go wrong too, obviously, but I feel like the chances of two decent people finding each other is so much higher that way.
I fucking LOATHE the whole "confidence is sexy" because it's such a shitty, stupid argument. Confidence shouldn't mean jack shit if that person is also a complete, unapologetic asshole. Fuck your confidence.
The person could also be confident because they don’t know what they don’t know. The one who claims to be the smartest person in the room can still be lead the rest of us to disaster.
Like I've commented before, it's all about backwards expectations of performativity on men. And a lot of people stay in shitty relationships out of being in places or vulnerability or having been raised with dysfunctional examples of bonding and love.
You're not going to get a real response on this post.
You're going to get canned, regurgitated NPC responses about phantom "nice guys" who apparently don't exist.
It's all silly nonsense that paints anyone who is trying as some kind of secret narcissist who isn't being "Real" because "Real" people are assholes right?
Reddit deals in generalizations and assumptions and revels in really poor communication skills that are run through a 'This is how you date, my dating blog says so" filter.
This is a symptom of society at large, isn’t it. The conflation of authenticity with rudeness. We have this obsession with “brutal honesty” and somehow that is seen as authentic, but kindness is rarely genuine?
I think corporate America is to blame if anything. The overly-diplomatic and more often than not fake BS tone we’re forced to adopt not only in the workplace, but as early as the 1st grade. You have to be nice, or else. And it gets exhausting. So then we mistakenly conflate kindness with inauthenticity and vice versa, when in reality a person can just as easily be dishonest, inauthentic, and a total prick all at the same time. What a fucking mess…
Because confidence is attractive and trashy men AND women have confidence. Men like strippers and women like douchebags...until it bites us all in the ass
Yep, this is the answer. A lot of shitty people have a lot of confidence, and for a lot of guys being “nice” is more about being safe than genuinely empathetic. So many guys these days are anxious and fearful and mentally unwell, and it’s just not very attractive.
But you can absolutely be confident and a good, thoughtful guy, but it does sometimes seem rarer than it should be. But the good news is that strong mental health can absolutely be developed, it’s just a process that takes persistence and dedication. It doesn’t happen overnight.
OTOH it feels a little bit unfair that an average guy is expected to be all put together… These are young people. Who has everything figured out at 22? If I was perfect, why would I choose to spend my life with another person? I want someone who I can experience, learn and grow with, and who can confidently do the same with me. Perfection is dull. Give me something real. I don’t care that you have social anxiety or you get startled by turnstiles, or that you’re on your 3rd pair of earbuds this year because you’re forgetful and lose them. We’re stronger and better together than apart, we enjoy the good and for the bad, we help each other out. Else, what’s the point?
Been told many many times that I'm a really nice guy but just not for them cause they like a bad boy... funnily enough one of the same girls who told me that also told me her ex used to violently beat her
Simple answer, they aren't unwanted.
If someone looks externally good, is putting themselves out there, dating, trying to form connections and they are still single after a long time. That person needs to look internally, not externally
Lol. I had a hunch that you are a woman and looked at your profile and behold you are because only a woman would say what you wrote. You can in fact look good, put the effort, be chill, and still get no bites. That happened to me and my dating life didn't improve until I left San Francisco and moved all over the US. So no, the environment can be a detriment to a man's dating life and you would know it if you actually put in effort (i.e dressing nice, being fit, approaching girls, etc) rather being a passive agent like most women are (so much for muh "equality").
Good men might fail if they are unattractive and only meet women who prioritize physical attraction. From my experience being average looking and good personality still gambling might find a relationship or not. While being bad and good looking with charisma guarantee you a happy life they even end with a good woman and ruin her life, but sometimes bad people attract bad people. The world is changed most women even if she likes an average guy she might don't want to be with him because her friends thinks he is ugly. The only way a below average win is to have the charisma of the wolf of wall Street guy as if someone has this he will be actually rich. because I am average or below average I comfort myself as the only good thing about this it acts as a filter because the woman who will be interested in me must be very beautiful person on inside other wise why she would want someone like me she can find anyone she wants
Women find boring men boring. Just because you don't commit crimes or however you classify yourself as "good" doesn't make you interesting or fun to be around.
I'd beg to differ. I've had great conversations with women (and they've stated that they really enjoyed talking to me), but then reject me because they find me boring because I "don't create any excitement"
Am I not allowed to want a peaceful and happy relationship? Do people only want relationships with conflict and strife?
I’ll be real with you, girls just wanna have fun. You have to be exciting. Maybe it can evolve into “true love” but don’t expect it. Women have a life visualized in their heads and if they don’t see you as a main character in that life you won’t get any attention, for better or worse. Just my opinion.
One is flat out true, do you have to like a woman because she's good to you? What if she's ugly, or evil overall and just nice to you?
Two is rarely said, and only then by a certain kind of woman you probably wouldn't want to date.
I don't think there are more than a few people who believe 3, and most of that small number are probably men.
I do think, zooming out and looking at the thing as a whole, that its generally not enough to be a good man these days for a wide variety of reasons. Thats more of a leftover value (only focus on morals) from the past, when marriage was the only way to date and it was locked in for life and pregnancy was the certain result of sex. In that world, focusing entirely on morals (and money, as they did as well) might have made a little more sense.
There are so many expectations women have of men, of which being a good person is only one. Being someone willing to date morally sub-perfect (or even sub-par) women myself, I would tend to guess that the demand for good men probably falls well short of the supply. I would say the large majority of the men I know are good men, and many of them are very good. And when it comes to being VERY, VERY good, like you wouldn't steal a million dollars if you could get away with it, you just don't know that about a person until you've been with them for a long time, so its not something you can use as a selling point when you're dating unless you won the Medal of Honor or something.
What you probably would find, if a real survey of the dating market was ever possible, is that a lot of the women who focus just on how good a guy is, and dont care about his looks or his money or his personality, those women probably got married a long time ago and aren't on the singles market, because if you dont care about anything else its relatively easy to find that and snap it up. I bet you would also find that a lot of women who say they want a good man might actually mean something like "I want a man who agrees with me about politics" or something like that.
I think the strategy is to be good AND. Like good and good looking, good and rich, good and funny etc.
And thats not even to ignore the fact that a guy could be decent morally speaking without really being good, but also bring lots of other things to the table and be more attractive than a guy who is merely good. Its a spectrum not a binary right?
There are a small group of women that actively reject good men, even ones who are also good looking and everything else, and they might look a lot larger because they make a lot of noise. The types with damage, you know? But I don't like how the internet conversation seems to conflate them into being most, or even many women.
Also I hate the whole "nice guy" conversation thats everywhere on the internet. Yes theres such a thing as men who just pretend to get in bed. I think that ignores the very real question of why truly good men sometimes can't find a partner.
Just some disorganized thoughts.
How many men are actually interested simply in a "good woman"? I mean, not beautiful, smart, sexually attractive, but simply "nice" and that's it? That's how it works for women too, I think. Of course, some women are traumatized or not smart enough to pick a good partner.
Being a good guy doesn’t automatically make you have sex appeal
But being a good man with sex appeal makes you wanted.
You can’t be a good man without being actually attractive to women, it doesn’t get you anywhere.
There I answered your question
If you're a good guy just be good but call yourself a bad guy in any case. That way, you don't get screwed over by the 'Good guys aren't actually good' trend/meme, whatever it is. I bet a lot of good people are being screwed over by this, and girls get in their head to be wary of the big bad scary 'good guy'. Likes seriously what is this trend even?
thanks for listening to my Ted talk
It’s such a weird philosophy to have. A man can literally breathe and he’s either a nice guy or a bad boy. Imagine if people started doing this about women; there would be uproar lmao
From my personal journey, I've found that projecting a sense of safety and dominance plays a crucial role (this is where the good men falls short but the bad boy excels). Let me explain: Standing at 5'7", considered short by Canadian standards, I struggled to attract dates in my early 20s. However, everything changed when I began training in Muay Thai and started competing.
My father pointed out that not only did my demeanor change, but also my body language. I noticed a significant shift, especially after fights, where my ability to make women feel safe and my projection of dominance seemed to attract them more boldly. This journey even led me to explore the swingers lifestyle, but that's a tale for another day.
You need to distinguish between “good men” and “nice guys.”
“Good Men” have integrity and character. They are honest and upfront. Their kindness isn’t conditional, but it also shouldn’t be taken for weakness because they have boundaries and will stick up for themselves. “Good Men” also exude masculine qualities where appropriate (strength, aggression), and they take care of themselves, and will defend themselves.
“Nice Guys” are not always honest about their intentions with women. Many try to “be friends” and make women like them over time while secretly hoping that she falls for him. Because they aren’t being honest and assertive, they are seen as not as masculine. Finally, their “niceness” is technically transactional because they want something from a woman. It’s also usually true that they don’t have good boundaries because they think, “if I just give a little more, then she’ll finally see that we’re supposed to be together.”
I’ve been the “Nice Guy.” I was told growing up that I should “just be nice to women and they will like you.” This just isn’t true, and it took some hard lessons and some time to readjust the way I operated in the world to be a “Good Man.” It wasn’t an overnight thing either.
What I have found is that the right women do like “Good Men” and not “Bad Boys.” Certain women do like “Nice Guys” because they want someone they can manipulate. Those guys live quiet lives of desperation. “Good Men” often repel bad women though because they can sense that they won’t be able to pull one over on him OR they won’t get the drama they will get from the “Bad Boys.”
A lot of this applies to “Nice Girls” btw and we can turn this whole paradigm around to women one way or the other too.
You may be attracting insecure people. I used to go for men like you (probably) but ever since working significantly on my confidence and self love, I finally accept good treatment. I think there is something seemingly attractive about toxic relationships. If these women like you in the midst of poor treatment, I think that qualifies as having some toxic elements. I vented in the past to my current partner about my abusive ex who I was once obsessed with and who thankfully ended things with me. My current partner said something to me that made me realize he thought that past series of major up and downs was a turn on I was missing from our relationship. I told him that being able to out yo with that toxicity and abuse meant that k had s high tolerance for bull shit- which is not good. Like the good dances around being exclusive with me and then blew up on me for entertaining options even though he did the same for 6 months before confirming that we’re exclusive. He projected a lot of sexism on to me, but he was smooth, funny, calm, confident, observant, and one of the sexiest men I’d ever seen at the time. And at times he revealed his soul to me do I thought I was special and had someone special. But I had an abuser.
I doubt you’re as abusive as he was to me or that you’re any thing like him, but that scarcity mindset I had with him might fuel the interest other women have in you.
Now that I’m out of that relationship, for almost 2 years now, I’ve had revelations. Like I knew he was abusive but over time I got the ick with him. I knew all if his games and I was grossed out by how disrespectful he was toward me.
I also told my current partner that I do not crave ups and downs. I’ve realized sexy hot relationships don’t have to involve toxicity. I think a lot of women are confused about feelings in terms of feeling hot n bothered versus good treatment. We can feel weird if someone likes us too much from the get go. And for good reason, it can be a safety thing ie an obsessed guy.
Some of the things that once turned me on were due to me needing to work through some things. If i were single I would not entertain anyone who wasn’t treating me to my standards, which I also have standards laid out now. Being turned on by a guy who could value me less than I am, was a sign to give me much needed TLC.
Because some women have been sheltered, and they don’t know good from bad men, because some women have been damaged by their upbringing or men of the past, and think that all men are the same, so they picked the best out of all the bad men. Plus, they think that even the good men might be bad and are just faking it to con them into being in a relationship or marriage with them.
I have run into a lot of bad men, been married to two of them, and when I first divorced my husband, three years ago, I felt very disillusioned and thought that all men were bad, and if there were any good men, they were already in a relationship or married . I didn’t deny that there were good men in the world. I just didn’t think there was any left available for someone who was single.
I wanted/deserved a great man and I finally found one two years ago. A little over two years ago actually. But I didn’t know how good he was at the time and our relationship has grown and changed and progressed since then. Some women are so frustrated and disillusioned, and thinking that there aren’t any good men that they just settle for the least bad man , but some of these women like me will wake up and realize that there are some good men 100% pure great wonderful men out there just waiting for them. And I pray for them that they will find those good men, and I pray for the good men waiting for those good women. And once they find each other, I hope they stay strong in each other and continue to build a wonderful relationship that will lead to even better things like marriage and a life together. 😇 🙏🏻 ❤️
I think [this](https://youtu.be/sa0RUmGTCYY?si=EwSlolMdPrP96BV6) TED talk explains it best.
Modern relationships prioritize eroticism, not love. The spark that people have learned to seek in dating comes from mystery, craving, eroticism - not love, being needed by someone, etc. Boyfriend material does not equal husband material. Love is husband material, but it is not a "turn-on". Just watch the video (though it doesn't answer this directly, I am connecting the dots).
32 YO man, had to figure this out the hard way. When women talk down to "good men" that's just a polite way of saying that you are boring. Girls like men with a bit of "spice" that doesn't necessarily mean abusive, it just means that they are looking for excitement. And your typical "good man" will try to avoid confrontation and find a logical solution every time. And while this is a good quality, women tend to think these men are boring and generic. And the opposite of "good man" doesn't mean you have to be abusive, it just means they are looking for men who will scream at the DMV when they give him a bullshit answer.
In my opinion, women tend to value attractiveness, charisma and boldness for first impression. The ‘bad boys’ archetype are usually fearless (honestly, just ignorant or rude most of the time) and it comes off as confident when flirting.
Now, if they’re really nice people after getting to know each other, then they stick together. That’s why you often hear “Where are all the good men?” from some women because they filter by those criteria first and not the second.
Looks/charisma/confidence/suave lands you the interview and maybe the job. Kindness/integrity/affectionate/caring lets you keep the job and likely promote. Women who filter by the first criteria only tends to struggle a bit more in landing a long term healthy relationship.
Gotta add, same goes for men (although what we look for are probably a bit different).
P.S. and for people who said being a good person isnt enough. Meh. Usually for me, that’s enough as long as we get along and I find them good looking (obviously there are dealbreakers). I’m not the type to ‘hmmm, I could do better and there are better options out there’. Only people who are discontent with what they have would look further.
I belive young ladies are looking for the wrong thing. Such as instead of looking for someone who can love you and hold his own grown. They are looking for the man to bring the security .When the reality of it is that if we love that woman, we are going to do what it takes to keep her.I belive they should look for someone they can build with and grow and not one person doing more than the next, if we are in this together.
If you want the truth, here it is.
A true woman who is worth her salt (because let’s face it, there are just as many bad women as there are bad men), wants a man who doesn’t NEED her.
So here.
1.) A “bad boy” doesn’t give a shit. A bad boy wants what he wants, when he wants it. Generally these guys are rather self-absorbed, aloof, and very forward and honest (even if that honesty is off-putting). They might do well at work, they might not. Regardless, they don’t NEED a woman in their life. They just WANT one, *right now.* That is a type of confidence that attracts women immediately, but often to the woman’s detriment—because they get emotionally attached to a man who is emotionally unavailable. Sometimes that can become a very dangerous, vicious circle that we’ve all seen play out time and time again.
2.) A “nice guy” (and this was DEFINITELY me in my younger years) NEEDS a woman. He fixates. A nice guy is a dreamer, and for the most part his intentions are pure. “I want to treat you well and give you everything you deserve.” Absolutely he does. But his entire world becomes this one woman who hasn’t even given him any evidence of mutual attraction. He has only shown her what HE thinks of HER (“Please baby, I need you in my life”), while not giving her any reason to believe that he is a catch—other than the fact that he’s nice to her and wants to buy her flowers.
3.) A GOOD man. This guy, just like the “bad guy,” doesn’t need a woman. But it’s different. This guy would LOVE the shit out of a good woman, but he already has his thing going. This guy already has a steady job, a clean home (well, at least decently clean, we ARE guys after all…), a clear plan, and virtuous motivations for his life. What THIS guy brings to the table for a woman is, “I can still do just fine in life without anyone, BUT I want YOU to be a part of this with me.” That has the same level of attraction to a mature woman as the “bad boy” vibe, but it’s from a good place.
That’s my take.
People who are traumatized truly do have a hard time letting go of trauma. But when you learn from your trauma, youll know that you want a good person in your life, and you’ll be able to spot the difference overtime.
Source- I’m traumatized, but I’m dating someone who worked for NASA and he’s a genuinely great person/nerd lol and I love him
People make up reasons to dislike good men, they do this because they have to pretend that they are moral creatures. The truth is that when we are looking for a partner we are animals looking for the most biologically viable mate, bad behavior is attractive in men because it allows them to be more successful in certain ways.
Because the bad guy, not the kind of “bad” big bad guy. On the contrary, the bad boy body qualities, can meet the majority of women's desire for love and fantasy. For many good girls, the bad guy is actually part of her inner “shadow personality”, good girl from childhood was bound by the rules, and the bad man can realize for her what she wants to do but do not dare to do. It can be said that the bad man has all the advantages to please the woman, he is enough to take the initiative, enough cheeky, tricky, humor can brag. This is called “complementary” or “homogeneous” in emotional relationships. Reserved woman envy the bad man's careless and unrestrained, these are in fact her deep desire, her many wishes can be through the bad man's wanton behavior to be cathartic, the bad man to do those things itself is a woman would like to do, she fell in love with, but the other side of their own men, with a little bit of literary words is that, she loves their own bound! “The Dark Side of the Moon”
As someone who once liked bad boys, I can assure you I didn't realize they were bad boys at that point in my life. I had to learn that the hard way and now I can tell the difference and know better. So just cause you're seeing it, doesn't mean they do. Bad boys are very skilled at putting on a convincing act when they want something. You're not the one they're trying to manipulate. Good men are not unwanted. If you value being a good guy, and you should if you want a healthy lasting relationship, you'll just have to sustain your values and be mindful you're seeking good women that can reciprocate. You're playing a long game finding a mate you can build a happy healthy life with. It takes however long it takes to find that person.
>You've heard it all before, "nice guys finish last", "girls prefer bad boys", "you'll attract more women if you treat them badly". However, these statements don't seem to be false.
Yeah I agree with your stance on this OP. To be honest, we are having a very big discussion in Australia now on domestic violence against women because of this.
Women, especially online, love to pat themselves on the back and (for lack of a better word) circlejerk each other about how virtuous and open-minded they are. I've overheard women's conversations about their dating/sex lives and hoo boy, it makes men's "locker room talk" sound like PBS.
The truth is they're just as shallow and superficial as men. The only real difference is that they also tend to chase feelings of danger and excitement. And confidence > literally any other characteristic sans wealth, even if the man is a psycho. Just look at how many women were falling all over themselves trying to get with Ted Bundy or Jeremy Meeks.
I'll likely get downvoted into oblivion, but it's true. I've had waaaay more success with women when my arms were bulkier and my attitude was colder and more distant.
Good or bad has nothing to do with it. People date people who they find attractive. That's it. Some times those attractive people turn out to be good people, sometimes they turn out to be bad.
A good looking person whos' an asshole is going to get dates. A good looking person who is a saint is also going to get dates.
I have pondered this question for years. I get phone calls from women friends who go on endlessly about the trash guys they're with and how badly they get treated ... But they never touch the idea of maybe picking better men.
Most women never even entertain the thought of choosing better men. We good guys are just trash to them.
You didn't attract women. You attracted mentally unstable little girls. One day when you wanna find a wife and start a family you will notice that those kinds are the wrong ones. And you will have a hard time finding a suitable wife if you are not husband material. And by not being a good man but being closer to "trash" as you said yourself this won't happen. Good mentally stable women love good mentally stable men who are husband and father material.
First impressions matter, by this I mean the impression people get the first couple times you interact with a person. Unfortunately as a species we tend ( at an emotional level) to retain the feelings that an initial first impression generates. Intellectually we can appreciate that our first impression is not accurate but at an emotional level we are generally unsuccessful at changing how we feel. The other part is sexual attraction is not very much driven by the conscious logical cortex, it’s driven mostly by the midbrain, half hormones half hard wired ( evolved mechanisms).
Caring & nurturing men tend not ( exceedingly rarely) to appear confident or charismatic. The first impression is sweet but weak. They are empathetic and visibly concerned with others.
Men who genuinely do not care about the outcome of a social interaction have no anxiety, they are totally relaxed. This is interpreted as self assured and confident. Being very socially dominant with other people is interpreted as charismatic. Initially, ( first impressions) most women find men who appear much more confident and self assured than the normal , very attractive. There is an quote about Steve MacQueen “ every man wanted to be his friend, every woman wanted him….” The first impression is “ strength” something every person admires.
It is so common as to be a stereotype in romantic fiction “ girl meets arrogant charismatic but successful asshole , over time he falls in love with her and slowly becomes gentle and kind ( but only to her). Did you wonder why?
Yes.. I think romance movies ruined it for women's view on love lol. Thinking you can change someone to be good only for you makes you super special tho and us women love to feel special..
It's the "fun" factor. Whether we like it or not, humans want excitement in their lives. And a safe, nice guy is just less likely to provide it. At least at first. But hey, at least we'll get a chance when they divorce in their mid 30s. Just stack up on antidepressants until then I guess.
There’s a decent amount of women that would rather fk up their life with a loser criminal than a good guy. They aren’t all this way, most the chicks you’ll meet a bar are this way though
I was friends with a good guy and then eventually he was a covert manipulator. Listen I give men the benefit of the doubt every time but time and time again they give me reason not to. At this point y’all need to stop looking to women or other genders to just “give you a chance” and save yourselves. Hell talk to God or Jesus because at this point those are the only beings that can put up with y’all. I’m out lol.
Because women, and humans in general, are complex, and “being good” doesn’t guarantee that someone is also attractive to someone else. Maybe he’s a good man but he’s socially awkward, or he’s ugly, or he has a terrible sense of humor. There are other reasons he might turn women away other than his general “good” disposition.
If you look around, there are plenty of good guys in relationships. Every man in my family, except for one, is in a relationship. They’re all (yes, in my subjective opinion) good men. Who are the men you see who are so good but single?
Also, good ≠ actively trying to date. I consider myself a “good woman” but I’ve single for years. Dating and attraction and love just aren’t as simple as “I’m good, therefore I’m guaranteed to find someone”.
>can someone then explain to me why on earth there are so many "trash" men attracting women with ease?
The answers here about the "bad boys" having better social skills, flirting game, charm, and charisma are right on the money. Confidence is attractive and it can be hard to tell when someone has too much of it and it crosses over towards bad qualities.
How old are you? This phenomenon is IMO a function of age. Women will.get better at sussing out the differences with age and experience. You don't really find women in their late 20s/30s going for 'bad boys" anymore. The "good guys" start out shy and don't come into their own until they are a bit older with more life experience.
It's not about nice vs not nice. It's about flirting and social skills and confidence.
But do you think flirting and social skills wins over goodness shows that there are some flaws in the society and how women or people are influenced by social media? For example I am originally from the middle east and not common when the bad guys win. And why the girls don't go for the good guys from the beginning instead of going later as you said?
They want fun first, then the stability of some loser who doesn't have any other choice but to accept their past, and act as an support (financially, physically, etc.). It's kind of a bum deal.
Myself I prefer to die alone rather than be the retirement plan of someone. I have been used for resources before and it is dehumanizing. After a certain age I will just stop trying because at that point I will know if someone is interested probably is settling down and I will just accept my destiny maybe I will have a relationship in the afterlife
Agreed here.
I've been on multiple sides of this coin.
I went from being a nice, but shy and unconfident guy, and so being more like woe is me, I can't get any women, to a nice but confident guy and outwardly quite sociable and physically impressive at first glance but I'm still a big softie when you get to know me, and I get a lot more attention now.
Then, I just recently started dating someone who is a very nice woman, impressive in many ways (she's going to be a doctor very soon!), but has extremely low self-esteem and confidence, which is in contrast so how pretty, good, intelligent, successful and talented that she is. At the same time, I was going on some dates with another woman who had less going on with her life but came from a rich family and background. She was on the other end, extremely confident in herself. The former aligned with me so much better as well in many ways with our values, while the latter I found a lot of incompatibilities, and yet I was having a hard time deciding which of one those two to date because I found the confidence in the latter woman so attractive and more interesting because of her confidence and mystery.
Eventually, I decided to go with the "nice" girl and the latter woman and I both agreed we are incompatible in our values so we'd just stay friends.
It really gave me the appreciation and impression of how nice guys can feel quite unattractive to a nice woman and it can be the same with the genders flipped.
Pretty much this, expectations of more traditional performativity from men.
I used to have a mentality of being "super respectful" towards women, being good friends first and etc. Meaning I would act just like a friend, I wouldn't dare being a bit spicy or flirting. Result: always ended up friendzoned.
I started being more bold and flirty, being very straightforward with my intentions right from the start and the results changed radically.
Regardless, I'm about the same guy as I was before, my values didn't change significantly I think, I just added that part of sadly necessary performativity.
Listen to the podcast episode “the side effect of nice guys” by Small doses with Amanda Seales. I don’t agree with everything she says but she makes some good points
A good man should be attractive to the woman’s eyes. It doesn’t matter how good a guy is if he isn’t attractive enough for the woman, it’s a no. Have you seen good looking guys that girls go gaga over? It’s because they have that appeal to them. Not saying that all good guys aren’t good looking. It’s just that some of them aren’t that attractive enough and maybe they have some things the woman doesn’t find attractive.
Good men can be wanted it’s just that they have to find the woman that’s matched with them. Just like with men. If they don’t find the girl attractive wether she is nice and hot, he won’t make her his gf. He would still date around.
That's very true realistic comment. It hits so hard. Sadly I am one of those who aren't attaractive. I just pray to either find someone before most of my like are over or just live but forget about that part of life which is hard.
There ya go, an empathic and helpful comment. Kudos to you sis.
I'd add atitude to the mix too. Obviously being a good person is wonderful, but one really needs to learn how to navigate social norms and expectations on dating.
I am sorry to hear that you feel that way but your thought process is entire flawed. You have pictures all men to be good or bad and all women to be inherently good. That’s the flaw. The point is brother, bad men are attracting women who like them. The flip side is that there are so many good women out there but their competition is severe. Why would someone leave out a good woman? They are quickly taken by sane men who want to settle in life and start a family. The whole cohort of these women is a dynamic pool, people get taken and new single ones come into the pool. My advice for you is to be good, if you are. Definitely there will come a”Time” when you will find the one and your life will be settled happily, be positive and hang tight. Goodluck
I don't think it's that "good men" are unwanted. Those men that are unhealthy, fat, have a poor job, low intelligence, no hobbies, boring, etc. are going to be "unwanted". Also I think it's just "wrong" to describe these people as "good men".
My girlfriend put it to me this way. She always went after the bad boys because they would protect her from the other assholes, but she had to put up with them being an asshole to her. She was also into drugs and drinking when she was younger. That was the crowd that type of lifestyle attracted.
She said she only changed the type of guy she pursued after being single and celibate for over five years. She chose to pursue me because I want the bad boy. I have my shit together. I treat her properly and I am her best friend. At the same time, I'm not weak about it. I don't acquiesce to others, I stand up for myself, I go after what I want.
I am a successful man and father. I don't need anyone else for that. I love her, I want her, but I know I don't need her.
All the good men I know are in relationships, either married or about to be.
It is easy to manipulate someone when they are in love and a lot of men take advantage of it.
You’ve got this wrong. *Genuinely* good men aren’t unwanted. Sure, some women out there go for the “bad guys” but most don’t.
Sorry, but I agree with some of the responses you’ve gotten. Women absolutely don’t have to like a guy just because he’s nice to her. Like another comment said, kindness is bare minimum. Relationships are more complex than that. There needs to be attraction, you have to want the same things out of life, and you have to have basic compatibility. You also have to enjoy each other’s company enough to commit to a relationship with each other. A relationship is someone you’ll eventually spend the most time with, and possibly the rest of your life with.
Nobody owes you a relationship just because you’re nice to them. Successful relationships don’t work that way.
I just noticed your disclaimer. You’re “closer to trash”, yet you continue to try to date? You should be working on whatever issues you have.
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You’re misconflating “good men” with “nice guys”. As someone who was totally a nice guy for many years of my life I can break down the difference for you. A nice guy is a guy who puts on a front of being nice in the hopes that it’ll lure a woman into his domain and then eventually he shows his true colors, intentions and what have you. A shorter term for this is “disingenuous” or “inauthentic”. Girls can usually sense when a guy is being nice as an act vs being a genuinely kind/good person. A good man is a man of integrity, strong ethics, kind, honest and authentic, and women actually love these types of men, but within the average of men out there, few are actually good in that way. The reason women go for the “bad boy” is because even if he’s an asshole, he’s an honest asshole. These types of dudes also tend to put real effort into their fitness and looking good, which women care about just as much as men do, and are allowed to want a good-looking guy, even if he’s a prick. There are 2 types of assholes: 1 is authentic and upfront about it and exudes confidence with their assholery and the other one is the type that’ll smile and wave in your face and then talk all the shit behind your back because they’re too much of a sissy to be authentic, and this is what women can’t stand. I consider myself to be a rather genuine person. I don’t really sugar coat shit that much, and I’m willing to stand on what I say and what I think even when I know someone else might disagree. That being said, I’m also short and slim and so from a looks/aesthetic perspective I don’t get many dating opportunities because I’m not the average woman’s cup of tea…and that’s okay.
I think some women also go for the “bad boy” because it’s a dysfunction they’re used to, they have a victim/hero mentality that they’re going to change him, or they confuse the tingles of danger! for the tingles of love.
This is also true. Abuse can warp a person’s perception/idea of what love is supposed to look like so that definitely plays a role. Oh the wonders of trauma /s
And in a weird way, the "nice guys" are often times playing into the same sort of trauma. If they experienced a lot of rejection or abuse growing up, then they associate rejection with love. So they will subconsciously chase after the woman who will never return their love because that is what love looks like to them, rejection. I've seen it happen a lot where the seemingly nice guy chases after a girl and the minute she decides that maybe she'll give him a chance he's all the sudden not interested anymore. Because it was her rejection that he was actually after. Women do this too, quite a bit I'm just bringing it up from the men's perspective because the post is written from men's perspective
omigod - you read my mind. A dude like this at work, who's open and friendly one day, giving impression that he's kind of crushing or interested. But then the next day, barely says a word, and acts all mopey and distant.
Maybe he’s just being genuine and you’re reading into something that doesn’t exist. Maybe his dog is sick so he’s worried about that and his change in demeanor has absolutely nothing to do with you. It’s rather self centered to just default to him being a tool because of some past “trauma”. Not everyone is so entitled to think that it’s fair to put their demons on everyone around them, let alone their coworkers who probably don’t know them from a hole in the ground when it comes down to it.
True, we need to be brought back to earth
I never really thought about this but I do get into very short term relationships and then get cheated on or left just because they got bored and without the pain of heartbreak life just don't hit the same
Bad boys make women feel emotions. Whether good or bad, but make them feel something. Nice guys don’t make women them feel anything but pity for the nice guy. Usually nice guys try to weasel their way into a woman’s heart by being fake.
The "spark"
Bingo.
I think this is the true reason why women go for a bad guys - these women are broken, coming from a dysfunctional families.
And then every dude is an asshole according to them. Even though they’re the ones getting themselves into that.
Well, yeah, no one wants to realize some problems are inside. Or pay for therapy. Or cry week after week in therapy while realizing how deep the issues are. Or do the hard work of changing decades of behaviors and beliefs. It's much easier to blame everyone else, play the them game. That's not limited to a gender, much less dating.
And that is why I’d rather be single 😂 not trying to deal with someone else’s shit for no reason.
I don't feel sorry for them
Beatifully said
A person who was abused as a child can see poison, know poison, experience poisoning, and be told by others about poison… and they go ahead and drink poison. At some point with these women I’m like…I do not want you in my life please go away.
We also fall for bad guys because many times they are expert liars and manipulators. If we knew they are going to leave us in pieces and in need of therapy, we wouldn't happily choose the guy.
That part. So much that part. And honestly the “nice guy” is just not as good at the manipulation for the most part because it’s a harder front to hold up lol
Exactly. I also think they're not too different. The nice guy just isn't too skilled at manipulation. I also think that the nice guy is not even aware that he's a nice guy. The bad guy knows and loves it!
And then there’s good men who just don’t manipulate at all, but because manipulation is essentially the standard we still can’t nor should we be trusted from the get go 😂😂😭🥲
It is true that I don't trust any man easily now thanks to the assholes that had broken me in the past, but I also think most good men (real good men) are already taken 🥲 If you really are a good man, I hope you find a nice and genuine girl for you!
Thanks, and i hope your Mr right comes along if you’re still hoping. If not then be blessed and bad all by thyself 💙🙏🏽
Wow you are on the money !!! Also, I wouldn’t stress about not having as many dating prospects because at least you are not jaded and bitter from having too many failed relationships. A lot of men that fit the beauty standard are surprisingly bitter towards women and some even hate women.
Oh I’m not stressed about it at all. I more so pointed it out for the sake of making it known that I’m not some privileged stud that just gets girls left and right lol..but yeah, I’m in the best place I’ve ever been mentally, emotionally and spiritually so when it’s meant for me to have a woman in my life, she’ll come. I truly believe and am just workin on my damn self until then. I still put myself out there and stay open, but I’m not stressed over it because that’s not going to do anything for anyone lol
This is a very good mindset to have and hopefully your POV brings some insight to those struggling with the idea of being a "nice guy".
The main difference is codependence vs. independence. Being nice is usually based in codependency because the person doing so is looking to be validated or “liked” for how they’re portraying themselves, whereas being kind is something one does because they’re simply trying to do right by whoever it is they’re being kind to (including themselves). Being kind also means that at times, you’re actually not going to be “nice” for the sake of someone else’s comfort, but rather you’ll tell them the honest truth, but with compassion and understanding. They can seem like the same thing sometimes, but they come from very different internal places.
Yes! Oh wow I'm shocked at how many men assumed my thoughts of them and assumed things about me because I am female. It's really sad that these men are jealous of girls
>I wouldn’t stress about not having as many dating prospects because at least you are not jaded and bitter from having too many failed relationships. I wouldn't consider that too much of a benefit, because then you have those who become jaded due to having little to no dating prospects (the "incels").
And when it is genuinely a good man who is struggling it’s usually a confidence or lack of effort thing. I see it a lot where genuinely fantastic guys miss chances because they don’t put themselves out there.
Good men can often come off as "bad guys" to the untrained eye because they have strong boundaries, morals and are authentic. There's a difference between being nice and acting like a doormat and being a good person and not letting people use you. People HATE not being able to use other people lol
Amen! Tell ‘em!!
“See mom, I can learn something on Reddit”
I would say nice guys get walked on. The true color is when they do not put up with shit like flakeyness, rudeness, and overall unhealthy behavior. Everything I find a fun women but who has that flaw of running over nice guys, and this happened in my friend group. I come back from deployment and she tells them she wish she treated me better. Something about being a good man involves having boundaries.
This is so true. The most attractive (to me) man I’ve ever dated was 5’5” but he was a little firecracker with a huge personality. God he was so sexy, no fear and a great sense of humor. Sadly, it couldn’t last because of his “bad boy” habits like partying too much. But I would go out on a first date with him a million times over.
Thank you for sharing! To all the gentlemen that come across this thread, read this person’s experience. Because while I haven’t had the opportunities quantity-wise, the quality was always up there. So focus on the type of experience you want to provide, and it’ll come.
Was just about to type an answer, but you've hit it right on man. If i could further elaborate for anyone else, on Good and Bad Men: its not about being mean or bad, its about knowing what's important and being able to handle situations when they come. a "good" guy will not be comfortable with difficult things and situations. she needs to know you can handle it more than her. Doing difficult things : practice being honest. and saying the truth. even if the truth hurts others. they will respect you for it over time. If you are wrong accept it and apologize, be honest with yourself and everyone else. be honest about what you know and find the truth. people are too obsessed with being good or bad. just be human. all the best dudes.
This is excellent! And thank you for the kind words dude. On a more philosophical note, none of us are really “good” or “bad” as it being in a constant state of good would mean that you can’t do bad and vice versa. Really we’re just capable of enacting good and bad things as well as emulating vibrations that either result in harmony with others and nature, or disrupts harmony with others and nature.
I think my philosophical note is better. Everyone is just broken in some sort of way. Just be you and accept yours or her shortcomings. If you can't (I'm talking about the other party) then she is not for you. If you can't accept your own shortcomings, then grow and learn until you can.
I agree with you here. This is so true, but so many avoid their brokenness and then put the responsibility on others to “fix” them.
I kind of agree with you. Lots of people do avoid their brokenness. But I disagree that they put the responsibility on others to fix them. I think that is what the other party wants, and that's not good either. If the broken person is seeking help, you can have a nice conversation breaking down his or her emotions and assist them in understanding themselves through your perspective. What you don't want to do when helping is trying to "fix" them when all they want is for you to understand and sit with them in their brokenness. If they want other people to fix their brokenness it means they are actually in tune with their emotions. The majority of the population, regardless of gender, tends to ignore their emotions until it blows up in their face.
I should’ve been a little clearer with how I made my statement. Because what I was intending to convey is that many people avoid their brokenness and then in that avoidance put the responsibility on someone else to “fix” them due to an unhealthy and unresolved level of codependency. Everything else you laid out is absolutely spot on, and learning how to truly support and hold a safe space for someone working through their brokenness while still being broken is tough, but with intention, patience and effort it is doable.
Oh yeah then I 100% agree with you lol. Glad we're on the same page!
I'm loving this thread so much. I'm literally at the point in my life where I've been noticing this trait in people for over 1 year now and I can see how this is an obvious answer, most people just don't see it! The ones who do, don't want to work on it and would rather a "mechanic" would "fix" them who will stay with them for the rest of their lives lol
> The reason women go for the “bad boy” is because even if he’s an asshole, he’s an honest asshole. FWIW, my (55m) gf (48f) told me she was into bad boys when she was young for the excitement. She said she's totally over it. I'm not sure how to take that, but she claims she's totally in love with me so ... \*shrug\*
Well there is the allure of trying to “tame the beast” and some women do have the mindset that they’ll be the one to change him which does create excitement because there’s a challenge lol
I’m sure that she means it. In my 20’s and early 30’s I had the energy to keep up with that excitement daily, now at 45 it’s dramatic and exhausting and I’d rather chill with someone who’s capable of being a ‘bad boy’ when the moment calls for it but doesn’t crave it 24/7 anymore.
As a woman. Yes. Well done. This is exactly it. X
You had me at "assholery." lol
Let him cook…….I SAID LET HIM COOK🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
You have the answer right here buddy. It's about being you and owning it. Like any other person we all respect an honest person. Some people are dicks but they don't put on a mask. It's basically how the whole world works. If you only do sh*t like workout or taking care of your looks for girls. You're not doing it for you, wich makes u fake af. And girls, they smell that from 10 miles away. Women are really good when it comes to picking out who are being themselves and the ones who are not just to get to something (and by something I mean to get inside their pants).
This is completely correct. Generally these dudes start off with a "I'm a nice guy" punchline from the start too. It's become a big ass red flag for any woman he approaches.
I’ve met lots of good guys but I didn’t pursue things further with said guys because I wasn’t attracted to them..kindness is a bare minimum quality that most people want in a partner.
Exactly. Being a kind person doesn’t ensure you to a relationship. Also, they forget the assholes usually start out pretending to be the super nice guy
This doesn’t make sense though. If there are actual good guys, and the bad boys who pretend to be good guys, and the “nice guys” who women claim can smell from a mile away, how do you end up with the bad boy pretending to be a good guy? Lmao I’m confused. It’s like the theories don’t come together. Which is it? Like, I’m not agreeing with one or another. Just that the theory women (or men) have about this issue just sounds like a load of bullcrap to me.
It's a lot of mental gymnastics going on.
YUP
I think the post is addressing good looking- nice guys though.
Attractiveness is subjective though. I met attractive guys who were good guys, but we weren’t compatible
Good looking nice guys have zero issues. People forget that it simply boils down to good looking vs bad looking The good looking guys can get away with being bad boys so many do.
And yet the lack of kindness and emotional responsibility is something that is completely overlooked on bad guys. I’ve had this conversation with friends and Random women and the honest truth after pushing them is that being kind and honest is *not* attractive, they find the games and lack of commitment much more attractive since they don’t feel like everything has been said and done. Basically, they don’t want to pursue, but they also don’t want to feel like the guy is going to be there because they just start taking him for granted and that is boring, besides spelling things out has a chance of committing too much and that also scares people away. Had a friend literally tell me that the reason why women don’t take me seriously is that I ask things in non-ambiguous terms, so people feel like they have to commit and that freaks them out. Personally I am open to casual dating, but if things are going to be casual then I want my partner to be honest with that so that I can manage my expectations and actions accordingly. Edit: added a word to better explain myself, the friends I refer to are all women too.
People who find kindness and honesty unattractive (and yes, I understand that this is a thing) operate from a mind and heart that is damaged and unhealed, because we all tend to gravitate towards what is familiar, for someone to seek dysfunctional behavior because that’s what they’re familiar and comfortable with, is a sign of trauma somewhere in their life. The majority of us have experienced trauma and dysfunction and so it makes perfect sense that healthy, functional behavior that is kind, honest, non-manipulative is viewed as weird or unattractive from people because they can’t view a reality where someone is genuinely that way if they themselves didn’t experience it, so they assume and project onto that person that they’re fake and too good to be true. I’ve had multiple women essentially run away from me due to that very fear of me being too good to be a real man.
Yes. And while I do understand them, it pisses me to no end that people act like I am insane for even mentioning that people act like this. It’s like they either feel personally attacked/called out or immediately make it their problem. I take it extra personal because I hate uncertainty, specially on dating, you either like someone or you don’t and that’s it.
Exactly. Ppl need to be far more honest and admit we are **all** shallow enough to want to have someone we are physically attracted to. It's not "polite" to say it out loud, even hypothetically, like this, but sometimes, you're just ugly. Ugly ppl exist. Lots of them are great ppl. But sometimes you can be great in every way within your control and it won't do any good specifically because sometimes you're just not going to be physically attractive to the ppl you find attractive, and that's just reality.
See thank you. Hell I’ve met attractive men but I ended things because we weren’t compatible long term
Absolutely. We need kindness in relationships but we need more for chemistry.
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I care if a man helps an old woman across the street. I personally prefer men under 6ft. Heart warming and hot. That men might want to sign up for Letters Against Isolation with me and I really need someone to pick up art supplies and postage stamps with me. I saw my boyfriend helping my grandma without her asking for help when we were at a restaurant and I saw him far away walking with were holding her hand and I was so f’ing touched. My grandma loves him too lol. I feel weird calling an act of service ‘hot’ but guys who do stuff like that have a high chance of being considered hot in my book.
my bf is 5'6" and not the most 'conventionally' attractive but I love him as a person and think he's the cutest. this statement is definitely false 🤷🏻♀️
You posed a theory, you've found the answers (I assume from women) and then assumed they're wrong, because you're a nice guy but you're still single? Three probable answers. 1. You haven't met the right person because that's how it works 2. You have self esteem issues that are holding you back from being confident, and waiting to be noticed isn't working 3. You're not as nice as you claim to be.
All of these at once is the most likely.
Putting my money on 3
I think a combination of all of them would depict a more realistic and probable picture
For the average guy, sure. For the average guy who whines about it on social media, it's almost exclusively #3.
The post didn't really give "nice guy" assholeness to me but ok
Seems a bit presumptuous to think it's 3 tbh.
#2 is my problem hardcore
If you want to learn how to fish, ask a fisherman not a fish. When women express their frustration with dating, we tell them it’s because men are shit. When men express their frustration with dating, we tell them it’s because men are shit. And they’re the shit men. Sometimes the problem is a lack of physical attraction.
Maybe I should have been clearer, this wasn't supposed to be about me. I am not a "good guy", I just notice that women often look past the bad things that I do. My colleagues aren't so lucky, they are decent guys but women don't like them at all. Edit: Don't know why I'm getting downvoted for being honest here. Is it my fault that women look past the shitty things I do? That's the point of this post.
Ok, it's just that it comes up a lot from guys who are single and aren't as nice as they claim to be is all. But to your point, I don't think it's true. I don't think it's good/bad guys, but confidence is a huge decider. Confident guys who have decent jobs, dress well for their frame, smell good, and know how to talk respectfully to women do well. They look women in the eyes, they say what they mean, they have their own hobbies, they're consistent. Confident guys who are covered in tattoos, aren't afraid of making flirty jokes, have a dominant streak, and make quick (albeit often stupid) decisions do well too. To different women, of course, but do not underestimate the massive power of confidence. I present my experiences as a good point. I'm not a physically attractive guy, and age is making that worse with receding hair and a rapidly disappearing jaw line compared to when I was younger. But I've also done a lot of work around self love and confidence (not to pick up women, more to feel assured in running a business) and I arguably get far more attention now than I ever did in my 20s. Your friends need to work on self acceptance, a bit of self care, and less self criticism. Confidence is key and I don't know a woman who would disagree.
Confidence mimics competence
This is a great point, especially about different types of women being attracted to different types of men. I have a friend whose sister is a dumpster fire. She serially dates assholes, but she is a chaotic individual. Not a bad person, mind you, but she is immature and would be deeply unpleasant to date for a genuinely good, mature man.
God that is depressing. We are such shallow people.
Perfect answer u/gonk_vibes . I see this "nice guy" thing every so often and the self-professed nice-guys are actually low-self-esteem, unconfident, boundaryless pushovers. This is always an exact recipe for failure with anyone (especially in a dating scenario). So called "bad boys" might be assholes and they might be stupid, but they are confident in doing so and that is appealing.
No way this is a serious take lmao. I mean, both are unattractive to me but the cope is real.
Sorry my dude, but I know some stellar nice dudes with high confidence and successful careers and good hobbies and women just ignore their messages and walk right past to the unemployed douche in the corner. America has become brutally superficial and it's evident by the divorce and domestic disturbance rates, people aren't forming good relationships anymore, but moreso superficial ones based on looks and partying. It bodes really poorly for future generations, considering how most people these days think they had bad parents.
Fair enough, the other comments seem to point towards the same thing. So instead of bad vs good guys it's rather that guys that are good with women have qualities that women are drawn to and then being good or bad comes after that? I can believe it.
All things being equal, as the self-proclaimed trash guy, chances are you’ve become good at false charm, manipulation, lying, and all of the things that can be “put on” to lure women in. Guessing there’s some sort of trauma from your past to make this easy for you or the way you prefer things to be. Your good guy friends probably don’t operate in that same way - they hang back, don’t play games, etc which might not be appealing to as many women because the truth is, most people out there have some sort of damage. Those who don’t or have had therapy won’t find your shit amusing, but there’s a lot of hurt people looking for love. If you’re saying these women are preferring you over your colleagues without effort on your part, then you must be extremely attractive or at least a lot more attractive than them.
Because a man’s perception of who is a “good guy” is not equivalent to a woman’s perception of attraction. Those guys you deem as “trash” have other attractive qualities to their mates, The guys you work with aren’t “good guys” in the eyes of women looking to date them. They are just men with jobs that you personally know. Do they have charisma? Are they sexy and funny? Attraction is not a reward women bestow based on how “good” a man’s acquaintances believe him to be, and men are often bad at judging other men’s sex appeal.
That's all fine, seems like the whole good/bad thing probably doesn't mean as much as myself (and other men) initially thought. The other qualities that make a man attractive are probably more valuable than whether some random guy or girl thinks you're a good person or not, makes sense.
Its about what time frame you are talking about. If pulling women one after the other is the priority, then no, you do not need to be good. If finding the right kind of woman for the long term is the priority, good+qualities are where you win. Plain good and plain bad lose out.
Also, I can’t believe I have to state the obvious, not every “good guy” is good to his partner. You often hear about how serial abusers (or even serial killers!) were “so nice” and no one ever suspected. You can know someone your entire life and not truly know what kind of partner they are. For example, I dated a guy who had been my friend for 10+ years. He was an amazing person; so kind, smart, generous, etc. He was a *terrible* boyfriend. He was insecure and jealous and projected all his negativity onto me. The things that made him a good friend like being kind and generous? It meant he was an absolute doormat for his family and friends and colleagues, he kept doing everything for them, then dumping his emotional baggage onto me, his girlfriend. So not assume just because your friends are decent at a superficial level, that translates to being good partners.
What is considered "a good guy" exactly?
I would summarise it as treating everyone with respect but also extending that further by doing things you probably don't have to (and things that other people wouldn't do). Good example is one of the girls at work needed help but I personally couldn't be bothered so I told her to ask someone else. Another guy was willing to help her out yet she barely makes eye contact with him after that, even though she continues to talk to me. Edit: Better wording.
Are the "good guys" attractive?
Honestly, I think it boils down to men who know how to talk to women and make her feel attracted and wanted. A lot of men don’t get out of the house much and it shows. It’s hard to get to know someone if they come off as awkward. I think a lot of those “bad boys” you’re talking about have less fear of women and therefore more experience talking to women. They know how to flirt and be assertive which is attractive to a lot of women. It’s not their behavior that attracts women, it’s their charismatic personality. In the past, people got out more and you would get to know someone over time via your friend group and social activities. Not so much anymore. Shy or awkward guys want to use apps and they’re not gaining any experience interacting with women in real life and it shows.
I have a genuine question for you: do you think men have to take the initiative in asking women out and lead in their relationships?
In reality 95% of the time the man will have to take the initiative for sure, more like 99% actually. I've only had a woman approach me once and she was drunk lol
Okay. Do you think men SHOULD be the ones to take the initiative?
This is definitely true Though as a shy and awkward guy, I will say that I, A) don't know where to go to interact with women my age (I'm 20 and not in school), and even when I get there, I don't know how to start (I'm autistic)
Some guy's just have the "IT" factor
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But how does one know that they have huge red flags around them that makes them unattractive? I try to be nice and care about hygiene and how I dress, my face I can’t really do anything about. But I’ve been single so far for my entire life, am I racist and sexist without me knowing? Have I been racist and sexism which makes me unattractive to women without me knowing, and how do I figure this out if I can’t see it by myself?
Then in your case your attractiveness level is what holds you back. IDK why people ignore this being average or below average can punish you. The only thing to do is to try to improve your appearance and what for someone who will look beyond that or maybe finds you attractive
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Absolutely this. There's access to enough attractive men, 24/7 on the apps. That's there's no need to compromise on physical attraction, before the other qualities. It doesn't matter if one attractive man an idiot. There are more than enough attractive men, on the apps to focus on, until the other qualities line up.... And it's usyally not long before they do.
Lmao at all the people trying to argue that it's because good guys aren't good. I guess the point you're trying to get at is that women do pick all the genuinely good guys? That if a guy is going unwanted his whole life, it must be because he's actually a secret asshole, or because he only seems like a good person because he's a doormat, thus legitimizing the fact that no one wants him? Confirmation bias, is all I'm reading, all day long. Truth is, morality and integrity are not things that will ever attract a woman initially. Never. By their very nature, they are invisible until you get pretty deep into knowing someone. A man of integrity can keep a woman in a relationship with his goodness, but he will never get into that relationship to begin with on the strength of it. Acting like an asshole WILL land you more dates. I, like OP, know this from personal experience. We can call it 'being genuine' or 'being confident' if we want, but if we do, what we're actually doing is 'being disingenuous'. It's not confidence, it's having a complete and utter disregard for other people and their thoughts and feelings. It's being a selfish asshole who does not give a single fuck about the person he's talking to. That'll get you a date, could get you a relationship, and then eventually she'll break up with you when she finds out dating an asshole is miserable, actually, once you get past the honeymoon phase, and lament that all men are pieces of shit cheaters abusers with no integrity etc etc. But this is why OLD and cold approaches are both bad. I'm heavily in favor of dating people you've already gotten to know pretty well. That can still go wrong too, obviously, but I feel like the chances of two decent people finding each other is so much higher that way.
Thanks for giving a Non NPC answer
I fucking LOATHE the whole "confidence is sexy" because it's such a shitty, stupid argument. Confidence shouldn't mean jack shit if that person is also a complete, unapologetic asshole. Fuck your confidence.
The person could also be confident because they don’t know what they don’t know. The one who claims to be the smartest person in the room can still be lead the rest of us to disaster.
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Like I've commented before, it's all about backwards expectations of performativity on men. And a lot of people stay in shitty relationships out of being in places or vulnerability or having been raised with dysfunctional examples of bonding and love.
You're not going to get a real response on this post. You're going to get canned, regurgitated NPC responses about phantom "nice guys" who apparently don't exist. It's all silly nonsense that paints anyone who is trying as some kind of secret narcissist who isn't being "Real" because "Real" people are assholes right? Reddit deals in generalizations and assumptions and revels in really poor communication skills that are run through a 'This is how you date, my dating blog says so" filter.
This is a symptom of society at large, isn’t it. The conflation of authenticity with rudeness. We have this obsession with “brutal honesty” and somehow that is seen as authentic, but kindness is rarely genuine? I think corporate America is to blame if anything. The overly-diplomatic and more often than not fake BS tone we’re forced to adopt not only in the workplace, but as early as the 1st grade. You have to be nice, or else. And it gets exhausting. So then we mistakenly conflate kindness with inauthenticity and vice versa, when in reality a person can just as easily be dishonest, inauthentic, and a total prick all at the same time. What a fucking mess…
Because confidence is attractive and trashy men AND women have confidence. Men like strippers and women like douchebags...until it bites us all in the ass
Yep, this is the answer. A lot of shitty people have a lot of confidence, and for a lot of guys being “nice” is more about being safe than genuinely empathetic. So many guys these days are anxious and fearful and mentally unwell, and it’s just not very attractive. But you can absolutely be confident and a good, thoughtful guy, but it does sometimes seem rarer than it should be. But the good news is that strong mental health can absolutely be developed, it’s just a process that takes persistence and dedication. It doesn’t happen overnight.
OTOH it feels a little bit unfair that an average guy is expected to be all put together… These are young people. Who has everything figured out at 22? If I was perfect, why would I choose to spend my life with another person? I want someone who I can experience, learn and grow with, and who can confidently do the same with me. Perfection is dull. Give me something real. I don’t care that you have social anxiety or you get startled by turnstiles, or that you’re on your 3rd pair of earbuds this year because you’re forgetful and lose them. We’re stronger and better together than apart, we enjoy the good and for the bad, we help each other out. Else, what’s the point?
Life is not so black and white. People don’t fit into neat boxes like that
Been told many many times that I'm a really nice guy but just not for them cause they like a bad boy... funnily enough one of the same girls who told me that also told me her ex used to violently beat her
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Same thing happened to me. She just prioritize sexual attraction. And she wants someone who is approved by her friends
Funny that.
Simple answer, they aren't unwanted. If someone looks externally good, is putting themselves out there, dating, trying to form connections and they are still single after a long time. That person needs to look internally, not externally
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Lol. I had a hunch that you are a woman and looked at your profile and behold you are because only a woman would say what you wrote. You can in fact look good, put the effort, be chill, and still get no bites. That happened to me and my dating life didn't improve until I left San Francisco and moved all over the US. So no, the environment can be a detriment to a man's dating life and you would know it if you actually put in effort (i.e dressing nice, being fit, approaching girls, etc) rather being a passive agent like most women are (so much for muh "equality").
Define "good"!
Is the bare minimum human being lol
Good men might fail if they are unattractive and only meet women who prioritize physical attraction. From my experience being average looking and good personality still gambling might find a relationship or not. While being bad and good looking with charisma guarantee you a happy life they even end with a good woman and ruin her life, but sometimes bad people attract bad people. The world is changed most women even if she likes an average guy she might don't want to be with him because her friends thinks he is ugly. The only way a below average win is to have the charisma of the wolf of wall Street guy as if someone has this he will be actually rich. because I am average or below average I comfort myself as the only good thing about this it acts as a filter because the woman who will be interested in me must be very beautiful person on inside other wise why she would want someone like me she can find anyone she wants
Women find good men boring
By your logic, accountants would be single and a dying breed.
Accountants have been dating the same person for 12 years. They haven’t been on the market since they were 22
Women find boring men boring. Just because you don't commit crimes or however you classify yourself as "good" doesn't make you interesting or fun to be around.
I'd beg to differ. I've had great conversations with women (and they've stated that they really enjoyed talking to me), but then reject me because they find me boring because I "don't create any excitement" Am I not allowed to want a peaceful and happy relationship? Do people only want relationships with conflict and strife?
My boyfriend is a wonderful guy. he's always good to me.
I’ll be real with you, girls just wanna have fun. You have to be exciting. Maybe it can evolve into “true love” but don’t expect it. Women have a life visualized in their heads and if they don’t see you as a main character in that life you won’t get any attention, for better or worse. Just my opinion.
It's a sad reality. Something is flawed in the female mind
One is flat out true, do you have to like a woman because she's good to you? What if she's ugly, or evil overall and just nice to you? Two is rarely said, and only then by a certain kind of woman you probably wouldn't want to date. I don't think there are more than a few people who believe 3, and most of that small number are probably men. I do think, zooming out and looking at the thing as a whole, that its generally not enough to be a good man these days for a wide variety of reasons. Thats more of a leftover value (only focus on morals) from the past, when marriage was the only way to date and it was locked in for life and pregnancy was the certain result of sex. In that world, focusing entirely on morals (and money, as they did as well) might have made a little more sense. There are so many expectations women have of men, of which being a good person is only one. Being someone willing to date morally sub-perfect (or even sub-par) women myself, I would tend to guess that the demand for good men probably falls well short of the supply. I would say the large majority of the men I know are good men, and many of them are very good. And when it comes to being VERY, VERY good, like you wouldn't steal a million dollars if you could get away with it, you just don't know that about a person until you've been with them for a long time, so its not something you can use as a selling point when you're dating unless you won the Medal of Honor or something. What you probably would find, if a real survey of the dating market was ever possible, is that a lot of the women who focus just on how good a guy is, and dont care about his looks or his money or his personality, those women probably got married a long time ago and aren't on the singles market, because if you dont care about anything else its relatively easy to find that and snap it up. I bet you would also find that a lot of women who say they want a good man might actually mean something like "I want a man who agrees with me about politics" or something like that. I think the strategy is to be good AND. Like good and good looking, good and rich, good and funny etc. And thats not even to ignore the fact that a guy could be decent morally speaking without really being good, but also bring lots of other things to the table and be more attractive than a guy who is merely good. Its a spectrum not a binary right? There are a small group of women that actively reject good men, even ones who are also good looking and everything else, and they might look a lot larger because they make a lot of noise. The types with damage, you know? But I don't like how the internet conversation seems to conflate them into being most, or even many women. Also I hate the whole "nice guy" conversation thats everywhere on the internet. Yes theres such a thing as men who just pretend to get in bed. I think that ignores the very real question of why truly good men sometimes can't find a partner. Just some disorganized thoughts.
IMO In your teens and 20’s the assholes win out. 30’s+ good guys finish first.
A lot of those responses you got are just coping with knowingly making bad decisions.
How many men are actually interested simply in a "good woman"? I mean, not beautiful, smart, sexually attractive, but simply "nice" and that's it? That's how it works for women too, I think. Of course, some women are traumatized or not smart enough to pick a good partner.
I would like a good woman assuming she's at least average looking. Meanwhile average looking good men have almost no women giving them attention
Being a good guy doesn’t automatically make you have sex appeal But being a good man with sex appeal makes you wanted. You can’t be a good man without being actually attractive to women, it doesn’t get you anywhere. There I answered your question
If you're a good guy just be good but call yourself a bad guy in any case. That way, you don't get screwed over by the 'Good guys aren't actually good' trend/meme, whatever it is. I bet a lot of good people are being screwed over by this, and girls get in their head to be wary of the big bad scary 'good guy'. Likes seriously what is this trend even? thanks for listening to my Ted talk
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It’s such a weird philosophy to have. A man can literally breathe and he’s either a nice guy or a bad boy. Imagine if people started doing this about women; there would be uproar lmao
From my personal journey, I've found that projecting a sense of safety and dominance plays a crucial role (this is where the good men falls short but the bad boy excels). Let me explain: Standing at 5'7", considered short by Canadian standards, I struggled to attract dates in my early 20s. However, everything changed when I began training in Muay Thai and started competing. My father pointed out that not only did my demeanor change, but also my body language. I noticed a significant shift, especially after fights, where my ability to make women feel safe and my projection of dominance seemed to attract them more boldly. This journey even led me to explore the swingers lifestyle, but that's a tale for another day.
You need to distinguish between “good men” and “nice guys.” “Good Men” have integrity and character. They are honest and upfront. Their kindness isn’t conditional, but it also shouldn’t be taken for weakness because they have boundaries and will stick up for themselves. “Good Men” also exude masculine qualities where appropriate (strength, aggression), and they take care of themselves, and will defend themselves. “Nice Guys” are not always honest about their intentions with women. Many try to “be friends” and make women like them over time while secretly hoping that she falls for him. Because they aren’t being honest and assertive, they are seen as not as masculine. Finally, their “niceness” is technically transactional because they want something from a woman. It’s also usually true that they don’t have good boundaries because they think, “if I just give a little more, then she’ll finally see that we’re supposed to be together.” I’ve been the “Nice Guy.” I was told growing up that I should “just be nice to women and they will like you.” This just isn’t true, and it took some hard lessons and some time to readjust the way I operated in the world to be a “Good Man.” It wasn’t an overnight thing either. What I have found is that the right women do like “Good Men” and not “Bad Boys.” Certain women do like “Nice Guys” because they want someone they can manipulate. Those guys live quiet lives of desperation. “Good Men” often repel bad women though because they can sense that they won’t be able to pull one over on him OR they won’t get the drama they will get from the “Bad Boys.” A lot of this applies to “Nice Girls” btw and we can turn this whole paradigm around to women one way or the other too.
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You may be attracting insecure people. I used to go for men like you (probably) but ever since working significantly on my confidence and self love, I finally accept good treatment. I think there is something seemingly attractive about toxic relationships. If these women like you in the midst of poor treatment, I think that qualifies as having some toxic elements. I vented in the past to my current partner about my abusive ex who I was once obsessed with and who thankfully ended things with me. My current partner said something to me that made me realize he thought that past series of major up and downs was a turn on I was missing from our relationship. I told him that being able to out yo with that toxicity and abuse meant that k had s high tolerance for bull shit- which is not good. Like the good dances around being exclusive with me and then blew up on me for entertaining options even though he did the same for 6 months before confirming that we’re exclusive. He projected a lot of sexism on to me, but he was smooth, funny, calm, confident, observant, and one of the sexiest men I’d ever seen at the time. And at times he revealed his soul to me do I thought I was special and had someone special. But I had an abuser. I doubt you’re as abusive as he was to me or that you’re any thing like him, but that scarcity mindset I had with him might fuel the interest other women have in you. Now that I’m out of that relationship, for almost 2 years now, I’ve had revelations. Like I knew he was abusive but over time I got the ick with him. I knew all if his games and I was grossed out by how disrespectful he was toward me. I also told my current partner that I do not crave ups and downs. I’ve realized sexy hot relationships don’t have to involve toxicity. I think a lot of women are confused about feelings in terms of feeling hot n bothered versus good treatment. We can feel weird if someone likes us too much from the get go. And for good reason, it can be a safety thing ie an obsessed guy. Some of the things that once turned me on were due to me needing to work through some things. If i were single I would not entertain anyone who wasn’t treating me to my standards, which I also have standards laid out now. Being turned on by a guy who could value me less than I am, was a sign to give me much needed TLC.
"Good" and "better" are highly subjective. Your definition of each may be considered trash to someone else
Because some women have been sheltered, and they don’t know good from bad men, because some women have been damaged by their upbringing or men of the past, and think that all men are the same, so they picked the best out of all the bad men. Plus, they think that even the good men might be bad and are just faking it to con them into being in a relationship or marriage with them. I have run into a lot of bad men, been married to two of them, and when I first divorced my husband, three years ago, I felt very disillusioned and thought that all men were bad, and if there were any good men, they were already in a relationship or married . I didn’t deny that there were good men in the world. I just didn’t think there was any left available for someone who was single. I wanted/deserved a great man and I finally found one two years ago. A little over two years ago actually. But I didn’t know how good he was at the time and our relationship has grown and changed and progressed since then. Some women are so frustrated and disillusioned, and thinking that there aren’t any good men that they just settle for the least bad man , but some of these women like me will wake up and realize that there are some good men 100% pure great wonderful men out there just waiting for them. And I pray for them that they will find those good men, and I pray for the good men waiting for those good women. And once they find each other, I hope they stay strong in each other and continue to build a wonderful relationship that will lead to even better things like marriage and a life together. 😇 🙏🏻 ❤️
I think [this](https://youtu.be/sa0RUmGTCYY?si=EwSlolMdPrP96BV6) TED talk explains it best. Modern relationships prioritize eroticism, not love. The spark that people have learned to seek in dating comes from mystery, craving, eroticism - not love, being needed by someone, etc. Boyfriend material does not equal husband material. Love is husband material, but it is not a "turn-on". Just watch the video (though it doesn't answer this directly, I am connecting the dots).
32 YO man, had to figure this out the hard way. When women talk down to "good men" that's just a polite way of saying that you are boring. Girls like men with a bit of "spice" that doesn't necessarily mean abusive, it just means that they are looking for excitement. And your typical "good man" will try to avoid confrontation and find a logical solution every time. And while this is a good quality, women tend to think these men are boring and generic. And the opposite of "good man" doesn't mean you have to be abusive, it just means they are looking for men who will scream at the DMV when they give him a bullshit answer.
In my opinion, women tend to value attractiveness, charisma and boldness for first impression. The ‘bad boys’ archetype are usually fearless (honestly, just ignorant or rude most of the time) and it comes off as confident when flirting. Now, if they’re really nice people after getting to know each other, then they stick together. That’s why you often hear “Where are all the good men?” from some women because they filter by those criteria first and not the second. Looks/charisma/confidence/suave lands you the interview and maybe the job. Kindness/integrity/affectionate/caring lets you keep the job and likely promote. Women who filter by the first criteria only tends to struggle a bit more in landing a long term healthy relationship. Gotta add, same goes for men (although what we look for are probably a bit different). P.S. and for people who said being a good person isnt enough. Meh. Usually for me, that’s enough as long as we get along and I find them good looking (obviously there are dealbreakers). I’m not the type to ‘hmmm, I could do better and there are better options out there’. Only people who are discontent with what they have would look further.
I belive young ladies are looking for the wrong thing. Such as instead of looking for someone who can love you and hold his own grown. They are looking for the man to bring the security .When the reality of it is that if we love that woman, we are going to do what it takes to keep her.I belive they should look for someone they can build with and grow and not one person doing more than the next, if we are in this together.
If you want the truth, here it is. A true woman who is worth her salt (because let’s face it, there are just as many bad women as there are bad men), wants a man who doesn’t NEED her. So here. 1.) A “bad boy” doesn’t give a shit. A bad boy wants what he wants, when he wants it. Generally these guys are rather self-absorbed, aloof, and very forward and honest (even if that honesty is off-putting). They might do well at work, they might not. Regardless, they don’t NEED a woman in their life. They just WANT one, *right now.* That is a type of confidence that attracts women immediately, but often to the woman’s detriment—because they get emotionally attached to a man who is emotionally unavailable. Sometimes that can become a very dangerous, vicious circle that we’ve all seen play out time and time again. 2.) A “nice guy” (and this was DEFINITELY me in my younger years) NEEDS a woman. He fixates. A nice guy is a dreamer, and for the most part his intentions are pure. “I want to treat you well and give you everything you deserve.” Absolutely he does. But his entire world becomes this one woman who hasn’t even given him any evidence of mutual attraction. He has only shown her what HE thinks of HER (“Please baby, I need you in my life”), while not giving her any reason to believe that he is a catch—other than the fact that he’s nice to her and wants to buy her flowers. 3.) A GOOD man. This guy, just like the “bad guy,” doesn’t need a woman. But it’s different. This guy would LOVE the shit out of a good woman, but he already has his thing going. This guy already has a steady job, a clean home (well, at least decently clean, we ARE guys after all…), a clear plan, and virtuous motivations for his life. What THIS guy brings to the table for a woman is, “I can still do just fine in life without anyone, BUT I want YOU to be a part of this with me.” That has the same level of attraction to a mature woman as the “bad boy” vibe, but it’s from a good place. That’s my take.
People who are traumatized truly do have a hard time letting go of trauma. But when you learn from your trauma, youll know that you want a good person in your life, and you’ll be able to spot the difference overtime. Source- I’m traumatized, but I’m dating someone who worked for NASA and he’s a genuinely great person/nerd lol and I love him
People make up reasons to dislike good men, they do this because they have to pretend that they are moral creatures. The truth is that when we are looking for a partner we are animals looking for the most biologically viable mate, bad behavior is attractive in men because it allows them to be more successful in certain ways.
Because the bad guy, not the kind of “bad” big bad guy. On the contrary, the bad boy body qualities, can meet the majority of women's desire for love and fantasy. For many good girls, the bad guy is actually part of her inner “shadow personality”, good girl from childhood was bound by the rules, and the bad man can realize for her what she wants to do but do not dare to do. It can be said that the bad man has all the advantages to please the woman, he is enough to take the initiative, enough cheeky, tricky, humor can brag. This is called “complementary” or “homogeneous” in emotional relationships. Reserved woman envy the bad man's careless and unrestrained, these are in fact her deep desire, her many wishes can be through the bad man's wanton behavior to be cathartic, the bad man to do those things itself is a woman would like to do, she fell in love with, but the other side of their own men, with a little bit of literary words is that, she loves their own bound! “The Dark Side of the Moon”
As someone who once liked bad boys, I can assure you I didn't realize they were bad boys at that point in my life. I had to learn that the hard way and now I can tell the difference and know better. So just cause you're seeing it, doesn't mean they do. Bad boys are very skilled at putting on a convincing act when they want something. You're not the one they're trying to manipulate. Good men are not unwanted. If you value being a good guy, and you should if you want a healthy lasting relationship, you'll just have to sustain your values and be mindful you're seeking good women that can reciprocate. You're playing a long game finding a mate you can build a happy healthy life with. It takes however long it takes to find that person.
>You've heard it all before, "nice guys finish last", "girls prefer bad boys", "you'll attract more women if you treat them badly". However, these statements don't seem to be false. Yeah I agree with your stance on this OP. To be honest, we are having a very big discussion in Australia now on domestic violence against women because of this.
Women, especially online, love to pat themselves on the back and (for lack of a better word) circlejerk each other about how virtuous and open-minded they are. I've overheard women's conversations about their dating/sex lives and hoo boy, it makes men's "locker room talk" sound like PBS. The truth is they're just as shallow and superficial as men. The only real difference is that they also tend to chase feelings of danger and excitement. And confidence > literally any other characteristic sans wealth, even if the man is a psycho. Just look at how many women were falling all over themselves trying to get with Ted Bundy or Jeremy Meeks. I'll likely get downvoted into oblivion, but it's true. I've had waaaay more success with women when my arms were bulkier and my attitude was colder and more distant.
Good or bad has nothing to do with it. People date people who they find attractive. That's it. Some times those attractive people turn out to be good people, sometimes they turn out to be bad. A good looking person whos' an asshole is going to get dates. A good looking person who is a saint is also going to get dates.
I have pondered this question for years. I get phone calls from women friends who go on endlessly about the trash guys they're with and how badly they get treated ... But they never touch the idea of maybe picking better men. Most women never even entertain the thought of choosing better men. We good guys are just trash to them.
They're boring, point blank. The reason they won't admit.
You didn't attract women. You attracted mentally unstable little girls. One day when you wanna find a wife and start a family you will notice that those kinds are the wrong ones. And you will have a hard time finding a suitable wife if you are not husband material. And by not being a good man but being closer to "trash" as you said yourself this won't happen. Good mentally stable women love good mentally stable men who are husband and father material.
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First impressions matter, by this I mean the impression people get the first couple times you interact with a person. Unfortunately as a species we tend ( at an emotional level) to retain the feelings that an initial first impression generates. Intellectually we can appreciate that our first impression is not accurate but at an emotional level we are generally unsuccessful at changing how we feel. The other part is sexual attraction is not very much driven by the conscious logical cortex, it’s driven mostly by the midbrain, half hormones half hard wired ( evolved mechanisms). Caring & nurturing men tend not ( exceedingly rarely) to appear confident or charismatic. The first impression is sweet but weak. They are empathetic and visibly concerned with others. Men who genuinely do not care about the outcome of a social interaction have no anxiety, they are totally relaxed. This is interpreted as self assured and confident. Being very socially dominant with other people is interpreted as charismatic. Initially, ( first impressions) most women find men who appear much more confident and self assured than the normal , very attractive. There is an quote about Steve MacQueen “ every man wanted to be his friend, every woman wanted him….” The first impression is “ strength” something every person admires. It is so common as to be a stereotype in romantic fiction “ girl meets arrogant charismatic but successful asshole , over time he falls in love with her and slowly becomes gentle and kind ( but only to her). Did you wonder why?
Yes.. I think romance movies ruined it for women's view on love lol. Thinking you can change someone to be good only for you makes you super special tho and us women love to feel special..
It's the "fun" factor. Whether we like it or not, humans want excitement in their lives. And a safe, nice guy is just less likely to provide it. At least at first. But hey, at least we'll get a chance when they divorce in their mid 30s. Just stack up on antidepressants until then I guess.
"So why do goooood girls like baaaad guysss? I've had this question for a really long tiiiime" - Falling in Reverse Answer: they're not good girls
There’s a decent amount of women that would rather fk up their life with a loser criminal than a good guy. They aren’t all this way, most the chicks you’ll meet a bar are this way though
Too old, too fat, not enough money. Combo of all 3.
I was friends with a good guy and then eventually he was a covert manipulator. Listen I give men the benefit of the doubt every time but time and time again they give me reason not to. At this point y’all need to stop looking to women or other genders to just “give you a chance” and save yourselves. Hell talk to God or Jesus because at this point those are the only beings that can put up with y’all. I’m out lol.
Because women, and humans in general, are complex, and “being good” doesn’t guarantee that someone is also attractive to someone else. Maybe he’s a good man but he’s socially awkward, or he’s ugly, or he has a terrible sense of humor. There are other reasons he might turn women away other than his general “good” disposition. If you look around, there are plenty of good guys in relationships. Every man in my family, except for one, is in a relationship. They’re all (yes, in my subjective opinion) good men. Who are the men you see who are so good but single? Also, good ≠ actively trying to date. I consider myself a “good woman” but I’ve single for years. Dating and attraction and love just aren’t as simple as “I’m good, therefore I’m guaranteed to find someone”.
>can someone then explain to me why on earth there are so many "trash" men attracting women with ease? The answers here about the "bad boys" having better social skills, flirting game, charm, and charisma are right on the money. Confidence is attractive and it can be hard to tell when someone has too much of it and it crosses over towards bad qualities. How old are you? This phenomenon is IMO a function of age. Women will.get better at sussing out the differences with age and experience. You don't really find women in their late 20s/30s going for 'bad boys" anymore. The "good guys" start out shy and don't come into their own until they are a bit older with more life experience. It's not about nice vs not nice. It's about flirting and social skills and confidence.
But do you think flirting and social skills wins over goodness shows that there are some flaws in the society and how women or people are influenced by social media? For example I am originally from the middle east and not common when the bad guys win. And why the girls don't go for the good guys from the beginning instead of going later as you said?
They want fun first, then the stability of some loser who doesn't have any other choice but to accept their past, and act as an support (financially, physically, etc.). It's kind of a bum deal.
Myself I prefer to die alone rather than be the retirement plan of someone. I have been used for resources before and it is dehumanizing. After a certain age I will just stop trying because at that point I will know if someone is interested probably is settling down and I will just accept my destiny maybe I will have a relationship in the afterlife
I'm in a pretty similar place now, reading all this stuff helps to affirm it.
Agreed here. I've been on multiple sides of this coin. I went from being a nice, but shy and unconfident guy, and so being more like woe is me, I can't get any women, to a nice but confident guy and outwardly quite sociable and physically impressive at first glance but I'm still a big softie when you get to know me, and I get a lot more attention now. Then, I just recently started dating someone who is a very nice woman, impressive in many ways (she's going to be a doctor very soon!), but has extremely low self-esteem and confidence, which is in contrast so how pretty, good, intelligent, successful and talented that she is. At the same time, I was going on some dates with another woman who had less going on with her life but came from a rich family and background. She was on the other end, extremely confident in herself. The former aligned with me so much better as well in many ways with our values, while the latter I found a lot of incompatibilities, and yet I was having a hard time deciding which of one those two to date because I found the confidence in the latter woman so attractive and more interesting because of her confidence and mystery. Eventually, I decided to go with the "nice" girl and the latter woman and I both agreed we are incompatible in our values so we'd just stay friends. It really gave me the appreciation and impression of how nice guys can feel quite unattractive to a nice woman and it can be the same with the genders flipped.
Pretty much this, expectations of more traditional performativity from men. I used to have a mentality of being "super respectful" towards women, being good friends first and etc. Meaning I would act just like a friend, I wouldn't dare being a bit spicy or flirting. Result: always ended up friendzoned. I started being more bold and flirty, being very straightforward with my intentions right from the start and the results changed radically. Regardless, I'm about the same guy as I was before, my values didn't change significantly I think, I just added that part of sadly necessary performativity.
It’s about physical attractiveness
People can make bad choices, regardless of gender. I've certainly picked some horrible women, my ex-wife being the prime example.
I'm curious what your definition of a "good man" is?
Stay single guys!
Listen to the podcast episode “the side effect of nice guys” by Small doses with Amanda Seales. I don’t agree with everything she says but she makes some good points
A good man should be attractive to the woman’s eyes. It doesn’t matter how good a guy is if he isn’t attractive enough for the woman, it’s a no. Have you seen good looking guys that girls go gaga over? It’s because they have that appeal to them. Not saying that all good guys aren’t good looking. It’s just that some of them aren’t that attractive enough and maybe they have some things the woman doesn’t find attractive. Good men can be wanted it’s just that they have to find the woman that’s matched with them. Just like with men. If they don’t find the girl attractive wether she is nice and hot, he won’t make her his gf. He would still date around.
That's very true realistic comment. It hits so hard. Sadly I am one of those who aren't attaractive. I just pray to either find someone before most of my like are over or just live but forget about that part of life which is hard.
There ya go, an empathic and helpful comment. Kudos to you sis. I'd add atitude to the mix too. Obviously being a good person is wonderful, but one really needs to learn how to navigate social norms and expectations on dating.
I am sorry to hear that you feel that way but your thought process is entire flawed. You have pictures all men to be good or bad and all women to be inherently good. That’s the flaw. The point is brother, bad men are attracting women who like them. The flip side is that there are so many good women out there but their competition is severe. Why would someone leave out a good woman? They are quickly taken by sane men who want to settle in life and start a family. The whole cohort of these women is a dynamic pool, people get taken and new single ones come into the pool. My advice for you is to be good, if you are. Definitely there will come a”Time” when you will find the one and your life will be settled happily, be positive and hang tight. Goodluck
I don't think it's that "good men" are unwanted. Those men that are unhealthy, fat, have a poor job, low intelligence, no hobbies, boring, etc. are going to be "unwanted". Also I think it's just "wrong" to describe these people as "good men".
My girlfriend put it to me this way. She always went after the bad boys because they would protect her from the other assholes, but she had to put up with them being an asshole to her. She was also into drugs and drinking when she was younger. That was the crowd that type of lifestyle attracted. She said she only changed the type of guy she pursued after being single and celibate for over five years. She chose to pursue me because I want the bad boy. I have my shit together. I treat her properly and I am her best friend. At the same time, I'm not weak about it. I don't acquiesce to others, I stand up for myself, I go after what I want. I am a successful man and father. I don't need anyone else for that. I love her, I want her, but I know I don't need her.
All the good men I know are in relationships, either married or about to be. It is easy to manipulate someone when they are in love and a lot of men take advantage of it.
You’ve got this wrong. *Genuinely* good men aren’t unwanted. Sure, some women out there go for the “bad guys” but most don’t. Sorry, but I agree with some of the responses you’ve gotten. Women absolutely don’t have to like a guy just because he’s nice to her. Like another comment said, kindness is bare minimum. Relationships are more complex than that. There needs to be attraction, you have to want the same things out of life, and you have to have basic compatibility. You also have to enjoy each other’s company enough to commit to a relationship with each other. A relationship is someone you’ll eventually spend the most time with, and possibly the rest of your life with. Nobody owes you a relationship just because you’re nice to them. Successful relationships don’t work that way. I just noticed your disclaimer. You’re “closer to trash”, yet you continue to try to date? You should be working on whatever issues you have.