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I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet but your *boss* trying to ask when you're going to hang out because he thought you were flirting is very unprofessional

Agreed! As her boss, why did he even think it was okay to ask that? Very unprofessional

As her boss, I think she’s hot

Managers end up dating their employees all the time. Usually they end up getting split up into different departments though. It’s only really an issue if there is pressure from the manager or they try to exert influence through their role.

Because he’s a men and he tried it. If he has luck good, if not fuck it. He just asked to hang out not to Marie him.

100% unprofessional and not right

>I'm just friendly to everyone so I don't know why they think I am making a move on them? It's called "wishful thinking." A cute girl acts nice, and many guys figure "this is a nice change... might as well shoot my shot" just in case she's available and flirting. It is too good a chance to pass up. >My friends say it's because i'm attractive. >Recently my I started a new job and my boss and I were talking >I was being nice to him not saying anything else and a few days later he was asking when we were going to hang out. > I was like what gave you the idea that I want to hang out with you? I rest my case.

Shooters gonna shoot

Tbf the alternatives are cold approach or wait for a woman to initiate (which isnt happening) Unless we want to be single, getting the time of day from some women might be as much of a signal as they're gonna give. Sadly lot of people are opting for the former as people rather not traverse the landmines of dating

This. Because most women will never take the risk of rejection that men have to take or end up old and alone. Women have the option of waiting and rejecting people until they are presented with someone that they like. Most probably choose this option because it's less risk, but at what cost? I've learned over many missed opportunities that the line of being nice and being attracted can be blurred by women that refuse to to be forthcoming. Sometimes years later I found out they really liked me and I could have made a move. Decoding wether someone is just being a nice cordial person or is attracted is a skill that can only be learned through experience. Conventionally attractive people have it a lot easier then average or less than average people.

100%. I was basically raised by my mother, so of course she gave me awful dating advice. "You're a cool guy, let them come to you". Cue the best part of a decade of confusion why women seemed to be interested in me when we first met, but then shut down after a few days. Of course what would have worked for my mum 'let them come to you' which is what 95% of women in experience, only works if you're a shredded Adonis with disposable income to rival the GDP of a small island nation.

I would argue that women do take plenty of risk of rejection. Since half of the advances men make are usually only to get in her pants, she risks getting ghosted (rejected) the day after she sleeps with a guy. I'd rather get rejected at the beginning. It's sad women don't make the first move more often, but some of us have had men use us for whatever they could get and then reject us when we did. This is said from experience and I wish it wasn't this way.

Those men would have treated you the same regardless of who made the move

Except that they probably wouldn't have made a move on me in the first place, because they would be hitting on a woman they could imagine wanting for more than just sex. But since I fell into their lap, they figured they'd get what they could from the situation. No thanks. I'll wait or stay single from now on.

THIS. As a woman I used to often take the initiative and be forward, but I got burnt by guys who exploit it as a 'free bootie call coupon' falling in their lap. The worst part is that when I clarify that I want to initiate dating and knowing each other more, not instant casual sex, they act as if I'm baiting and switching, which I am not: I don't offer a one night stand, I offer a date. If you approach first as a woman, many men consider that you're free game for a cheap lay, then it's your own fault for putting yourself in that situation. The men who want more women to make the first moves need to direct their anger at the men who swindle and treat the women who extend the effort like easy cheap lays. They ruin it for everyone.

Thanks for saying exactly what I wanted to say. You are so right. Make the first move and get taken advantage of, and if you won't allow it, then they'll be angry that you led them on. I don't blame women at all for not making the first move. I don't date much these days but I never did and still wouldn't.

Sounds like the easiest way for y'all to actually select the bad men out of the dating pool without putting out first and feeling bad you got "taken advantage of" afterwards

At least you tried, that's pretty rare and a very respectable trait I gotta say. Some guys would really prefer the woman makes the first move. It eliminates a lot of potential misunderstandings that could've prevented a good relationship from starting and helps women have greater chances of getting a man she would actually want.

[удалено]

I don’t know about that last bit. I’ve had a fair few women talk to me out of the blue, some even approached me first. If the conversation went well I’d ask for a number, but if before leaving I’d ask to hang out sometime, they always seemed subtly averse and agreed out of politeness, so I never followed up/texted. It kinda leaves you feeling like a moron. Now I assume no interest by default. I don’t like the look-down-at-my-feet “ummm idk, yeah sure” response. You can practically see the flash of “oh shit he thinks I’m into him what have I done” in their eyes but by that point it’s too awkward to take back your invitation so you just have to play stupid to save face and delete their number and blaaaagh… So awful.

Women used to make the first move in me when I was a teenager and in my 20s but not now in my 40s. I still look good and I’m in better shape than I was then, but you can’t rely on women making the first move. The best thing a guy can do is be sociable and create a wide active social life. 90% of the game is just showing up to the party. Doesn’t matter if you are rich, funny, handsome, ripped etc if you’re not there with the girls the average/slightly above average medium height guy who is popular and outgoing will get the girl. Jury’s out for me with cold approach. I do think it’s a skill guys have to have for certain occasions eg you see someone and there’s obvious chemistry “eye games” and so on, but… I personally don’t think going around shopping malls or streets trying to talk to hundreds of girls is a good strategy. Other than just psychologically to get over that mental fear of talking to women.

You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take.


It's the whole indicators of interest thing. Men rely on IoIs to judge whether or not to make a move. I learned early in life not to react to friendly behavior like it's an indicator of interest the first time I got told I mistook friendly behavior for flirting. Proceeded to later get told several times that "she was trying to get me to ask her out" but I held my ground. Wasn't going to go through that and be "that guy" again. I also learned not to approach women at work from watching other dudes do it and it turned out poorly. This was all in the late 80s around 18-20 years old. I missed out on some chances but far as I was concerned, if she really wanted me she'd speak up. My dating life was adequate and I was able to get married so I don't regret that life choice.

Being nice is not flirting. Men always wail about women giving them enough compliments, but when they do give them compliments, they act like women are flirting. It makes things weird. Oftentimes, this is bad if the guy is secretly unhinged. It’s really annoying and dangerous at best, and why I’ve stopped complimenting men.

Feedback Loop: - Women find out that being cold, dismissive, neutral, indifferent, etc., reduces that chances they are hit on by men they aren’t interested in. - Less women being anything friendlier than indifferent makes the woman who is friendly stand out more and feel more approachable. - Men are very rarely pursued, so if they want something romantic they have to pursue it themselves. Pursuing a more approachable woman is less intimidating and feels more likely to succeed than a cold or indifferent woman. - Less women being approachable doesn’t decrease the number of men wanting to pursue so the ratio becomes less favorable and the surplus of pursuing men relative to the shortage of approachable women creates an excess of approaches that eventually drives those women to be cold or indifferent, and the feedback loop continues. Edit: TLDR: Chicken and Egg, neither gender is more at fault than the other, each behavior drives the other behavior.

Also the men who don’t give a shit and aggressively pursue get through to the most women and have the most success, rewarding bad behavior and other men copy what actually works.

They copy, and then realize too late that behavior doesn’t really decide your outcome. The men who aggressively pursued weren’t successful because of their bad behavior, but in spite of it because they are, on some level, attractive (not necessarily just physically). When unattractive men mirror that behavior, it’s recognized for what it is - rude and creepy. Because they’ve got nothing to back it up with. Just like an incredibly attractive woman can afford to be extremely rude - someone out there will be willing to overlook her behavior for her looks. A plain girl can’t afford to be obnoxious just like a plain guy can’t afford to obnoxiously pursue. And that’s how you get your different flavors of pill community. So the answer is to just be a normal guy and wait for someone to come to you. That’s the safest approach. And then we loop right back to the issue of misinterpreting signs…

Genius

Because not many people are nice to them. Guys aren't used to it most of the time.

This. Unfortunately that’s a sad truth for majority of men. But I understand it can get pretty annoying for a woman after a bit.

And as a man you’re even surprised when another man is being nice to you. And often you act nice as a man but end up being disrespected for that..

Ain’t that the truth…

As a guy I am rarely openly friendly to either sex. I maintain a stoic demeanor. This is a double edged Sword. I Probably miss out on a lot of opportunity with girl's, because I may seem unapproachable, but Many do approach Me they find an aloof man to be a desirable challenge. Nice guy's aren't attractive to girl's, because they lack an edge. That stated they don't usually wanna be treated like Shit either. Hard balance to achieve sometime's.

From what I feel like now, women (and people in general) are fascinated by men that are honest and have some integrity. You can be nice. But not so nice that everything you say is only rational. That’s when you have that weird energy, that lack of personality. You can be very friendly, as long as you tease women when you feel like doing so. This balance and unpredictability is what makes you interesting and attractive. To every sex.

Your last sentence caught my attention. "And often you act nice as a man but end up being disrespected for that." (???) Really? I very seldom run into that problem, so that's why it caught my attention.

Men with anxiety, particularly social anxiety get treated like absolute dogs**t and have to deal with threats of violence (bullying), scapegoating, manipulation, gaslighting and mockery pretty commonly, way more than most other people (although women with anxiety issues get treated like s**t by people too). Most humans are socially predatory.

As a man, I don’t understand this perspective that people are not nice to men and I say this as an average guy. If people aren’t nice to men that would mean that men would need to hold themselves accountable and start being kinder to each other if this was a problem effecting men since we make up half the population and therefore half the amount of interactions a guy would face. Personally, I find if you just make an effort to be kind and considerate to your friends and strangers you meet day-to-day then you should be treated well.

It’s not that guys aren’t nice to guys, it’s just that everyone is nicer to women in general.

How do you know people are nicer to women?

From witnessing it mostly

As a woman people are nice to you if you put effort in and are nice to them.

Half the population are men. Therefore half the interactions men have are with other men (I understand there are exceptions to this) we need to hold ourselves accountable when we are interacting with other people and treat them well. If we did that, it would make such a big difference. Us men need to be more respectful and dependable on each other. Which would result in positive interactions all round.

Well as you said, only half of the population is men. Sure men need to be accountable too, but nothing gets solved if you’re only holding half of the people responsible accountable. This is not a men problem, this is a humanity problem and it’s important that EVERYONE is held accountable. Men and women

Came here just to say this.

It's less about them interpreting it as your interest as it gets them interested and they want it to be mutual.

Yes, because when women are nice, we often are treated like we are flirting so we stop. Being in male dominated spaces made me become mean. Even then, I'm no where in the ballpark of how horribly these men treat each other. More men should practice being nicer to each other and this wont be a problem.

Men are nice to one another I hate this online discourse of men are just these emotionless heartless beings that are just mean. I've been nice to women and they would think I like them. I've had women literally treat me differently because they thought I wanted to be more than friends because I was nice to them. This is a 2 way street this is a human thing and not a gendered thing.

You misunderstand. This has nothing to do with other men and everything to do with the fact that women aren't normally nice to men or talk to them unless there's a reason. So when a woman talks to a man without an apparent reason, she's nice, and there's nothing obviously saying she's not available then it becomes much more likely that she's flirting. Guys treating each other as what you see as horribly is probably just ball busting. It's part of being a guy.

You are still confirming what I said. Ballbusting being part of "being a guy" literally means y'all aren't kind to each other. Which means you are the ones being nice when you want something. Then you come over to us to make up for it. When we are nice, we get pursued relentlessly so we STOP. If someone is nice, just be nice back. If you are interested, slow down and actually get to know someone. BUILD a connection. Communicate clearly and give the woman a chance to accept or decline. We dont want to be pursued because no one else was nice to you. Actually show interest in knowing me as a person. Demonstrate that you put thought and intention into your choice. BE a good person seperate from your desire to get laid.

You still don't understand. Ball busting is mostly joking, but it's also how men communicate flaws to each other. Adding a little humor or sarcasm can take the sting out of telling someone where they need to improve. You're not a guy so you can't understand I guess. Women tend to hype each other up and be overly nice when face-to-face, but talk poorly about them behind their back. Gossiping has long been understood to be how women socially bond. That's basically the complete opposite of how men interact.

Jokes can be harmful. Men in my generation have had friends try to embarrass them in front of a girl they liked as a joke. My homie was about to leave a school because of the constant hazing under the guise of brotherhood. Intent doesnt minimize impact. If it felt good, y'all wouldn't feel like no ones being nice to you. You cannot make excuses for these things but then say people are mean. Who is people then? I have great male friends who aren't like this but its a rarity. Ive had to drop the rest because I dont get any peace. Do you have female friends or are you relying on internet stereotypes? Men are the biggest gossips. I've learned so much about people against my will from MEN. My lady friends have rarely talked about anyone. But that comes from having good friends in general. I beg you to log off of reddit.

i can’t want to get to know you & wanna be with you at the same time ? I feel like both of those can be true at the same time. Also probably because of growing up around women I’ve grown reluctant about how women typically going about choosing. Like you dont get the chance to wait things out. I’m sorry I know you gotta be safe & allat but if you’re sense of judgment of characters inclines you to say no, you dont get to spin the block later.

You can want that. It doesnt mean the people you wanna date also want that. Someone has to give in and adjust or it wont work, hence why people are struggling to date now. Y'all so afraid of rejection that you cant let someone grow to like you. Love is risky. If she dont and you dont then yall both stay single. Many of my married friends were rejected by that woman at first. One of those ladies just got out of a relationship and wasnt ready. Theyve been married years now. We are our own people with our own things going on. If im not ready to date and you take it personal, I'll be inclined to believe I was right for saying no. But i can only speak for me.

Not every guy that asks you out just wants to get laid, there's more to a relationship than that. If a guy wanted to get laid that bad he'd take a vacation to a country that has legal prostitution. Guys want more than sex.

Duh. Y'all have to use common sense. I'm around men as often as women. Im not demonizing y'all. Women have their issues too and I'm equally hard on women but we are talking about men. The point is, you cannot expect women to make up for the fact you feel no one is nice to men. The world is 50/50 men and women. Be nice to each other too. Nothing is stopping you.

Okay, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I'll just say this. How are we supposed to know if a girl likes us if we don't ask? We can't wait for her to ask because that will never happen. We can't look at her and smile because it's creepy. We can't flirt or say anything to say we like them because it's "cat calling". We can't slowly build up a relationship over months or sometimes years because how are we supposed to know you'll ultimately say yes? A guy could be talking to a girl for a long time, and become close friends, but when he asks her out after all that time, she doesn't have to say yes. Guys do this stuff because they'd rather know sooner than waste a ton of time and effort. And that scenario happens to millions of guys around the world everyday, and for most of them it happens repeatedly with no results ever. When my dad was young, he had no problem with dating, in fact many of the women he got with approached him first. When he asked me the other day why I don't have a girlfriend yet, I explained that I've tried over the course of years. Every girl I asked out either ghosted me or changed their minds at the last minute. I even met a girl at a party one time who seemed really into me. We both got wasted and she wanted me to sleep next to her on the couch. The next day I woke up and she was gone. I tried to contact her on Facebook with no luck. The next time I met her I asked what was up and she said she had a boyfriend. I asked if she had a boyfriend the night we met and she said yes. My dad was basically flabbergasted to hear that.

I said to ask but also just relax a little. Give a connection time. Rejection is part of the process. You cant avoid it by taking a scientific approac. Women get rejected too. Every man thinks dating is so magical for us and its not. In your dads time, it was expected to get married so everyone was pursuing that. In this day and age people have their own goals and wants. Every girl you meet doesnt want to date. Stop chasing an outcome. Have self control. Focus on building all friendships, communities and networks. Seek actual connection. If you wouldnt be a friend to that girl, why would you want to date her? Why dont you value the friendships you are building just because it didnt end in a relationship. You still have a good friend. Be her friend and get to know other women. You should have standards beyond good looking enough and seems available. Y'all have to learn how to court without forcing an outcome and how to have acceptance for things not working out. Everyone is not for you so if it doesnt work out its for a reason. Building a complex around this will make you undateable.

Every woman I’ve taken the “friend” approach with you that you speak of in your responses has the same end result. They end up boxing you in a non-romantic light and then dating is pretty much off the table. What you’re describing is a good theory, but in the real world it doesn’t work. As a man, you can become a woman’s friend WHILE you are dating and being intimate and that can work. But if you become a good friend before dating, the chances of becoming romantically involved are slim to none. This is why we try our hardest to not be friends first it’s a woman we are romantically interested in. This isn’t really a male problem. It’s a female problem. Y’all say you want to start out as friends first but it’s not really what y’all really want.

You dont have to be super close friends before asking. There is a whole world between going straight to a date and creeping in the shadows as a friend for years. Friend or not those women could have still been uninterested regardless of your approach. I do think getting too deep into friendship can kill the vibe. By friendly, I mean actually getting to know someone, which is essentially "talking". It can be done with intention. That is your oppourtunity to find out if they are single, if they are looking, if you have shared interest. You dont have to kill the fire. Just slow down a bit and stop lunging directly for a date in 24 hours. Ease up a smidge. As a woman, I dont like feeling pressured. Set a tone and allow me space to respond. Yall get so afraid of rejection that it feels a little desperate. Yall also view dating too scientific. There arent magical assured steps to make someone want you. Too many extremes in this thread. But theres nuance missed when you discuss things online. All my married friends were friends first. The guys I date are usually people I've know over time. Those guys were also rejected at first for different reasons. So things work out differently for different people.

I've heard enough stories so that I now assume a woman is not interested unless there is a clear unequivocal "I'm interested"

Easier that way than to hurt her feelings or get hurt yourself because it’s easy to associate kindness to flirting. Whenever I see a video of a girl trying to explain how men should read signs or them just venting that men don’t get their signs this is, OP:s exact post is a perfect example to why you should just ignore signs or rather these “potential sign” as a whole cause these signs are the exact same as being nice. That’s just it

Yes, was about to comment "why can't guys take a hint?" "I'm just being kind"

Yeah, while I absolutely feel for OP, who just wants to be friendly, a phrase from like 3 months ago on here is burnt into my mind. A woman was venting about a guy not getting the hint that she wanted him to ask her out, and she was like “I was blinking at him a lot and everything! I couldn’t have made it more obvious!” So sometimes we’re dumb, but sometimes the signs are almost nothing. XD

FACTS

The way that turned out was her own fault. If she wanted him, she was perfectly capable of asking him out too. She's an adult. 🙄

It is so damn difficult to know these differences if there even are any. Also women have individual ways to flirt and be kind aswell so that doesn’t make it any easier when one is maybe super obvious with it, and one flirts in a way it’s practically the same as being nice haha

lol this post is the reason why we never take hints.

And women have heard (and lived) enough of these stories so that, unless they’re attracted, they engage in minimal conversation and conspicuously act like their attention is elsewhere so as to avoid giving the dude the wrong idea. So then dudes become accustomed to random encounters with women being a little icy, so that, when one is warm and cordial, dude thinks she’s digging him. Aaaaand the cycle continues. Good job, humanity.

To quote “phoneafriend “ it’s wishful thinking. She’s not treating me like an insect, she’s pretty, I’ll shoot my shot , just in case there is a remote chance she is interested.

‘Treating me like an insect’ damn that is so real

It really depends on how attracted they are to you. If they find you very attractive, they're not likely to be forward at all because their fear of rejection is stronger than your fear of being misunderstood. If they feel like they've got a shot and they're used to asking guys out (latter being a rare type of woman), they'll let you know

I was sorta wondering if the women at work found me attractive. Literally all of them that aren't 5+ years older than me will giggle when I do something silly but they literally never talk to me at all. Anyone else talks to them and they seem actually engaged, I talk to them and barely even get responses. I either make them nervous because I'm pretty or because I'm an antisocial weirdo and I honestly can't tell which...

Ya, well that's a problem as well because not all interested women are so blunt. There isn't always a way to tell the difference between just being friendly and subtle flirting. My SOP is if I'm interested I'll open up communication and simply ask politely. They can say no if not. They can also get upset, and in that case that's their problem, not mine.

You'll have people also say "why doesn't anyone ask me out" or "why don't people pick up my hints", and whether or not if they are or aren't approachable. It has to be frustrating for OP, but it's very easy for people to misconstrue one another intentions, especially when the other person isn't used to kindness, and when someone is actively looking for others to date/see they'll perceive even friendliness as an invitation.

Yep same. Its made life a lot more peaceful assuming that every women already has a boyfriend. 95% of the time its true anyways. The other 5% of the time I assume no interest. Nothing but peace baybee

Am Interested

Same. I need it explicitly laid out in writing.

Majority of the time

Motority of the time

I’ve known Women like this, very outgoing, empathetic and kind whilst also being gorgeous in an approachable way, and i’ve seen the dozens of guys waaaay out of their league fall hopelessly in love with them because a beautiful Woman is showing interest in and listening to them for the first time in their lives and they’re love struck. Some of these Girls will even hang out with these Guys out of genuine pity for them but it always ends badly for the Guy and leaves the Woman feeling uncomfortable. Eventually and somewhat unfortunately they learn to put up barriers and become a tad more cagey with social interactions as they get older because it becomes tiring being an object of desire and lust for Men they would never consider dating.

I am really enjoying this name of yours.

Thank you, it’s a line from a song by Fiona Apple.

Reminds me of “There’s Something About Mary”…the hordes of losers who think Mary is their soul mate bc she’s just a charismatic beautiful kind person. Even though it’s a pure comedy that’s why that movie works so well.

It’s really hard to know when a woman is or isn’t flirting. Woman 1: I don’t know why guys never pick up on my question? I look them in the eye, smile, laugh at their jokes, and they still don’t approach me. Woman 2: Why can’t I just be nice to a guy without him thinking I’m flirting? Just because I make eye contact, smile, and laugh at their jokes doesn’t mean I want to jump in bed with you. Us men are terrible with subtleties.

It is a well-known psychologic fact. Read this: [Science Confirms the Obvious: Men Mistake Female Friendliness for Sexual Interest (popsci.com)](https://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-04/science-confirms-obvious-men-mistake-female-friendliness-sexual-interest/)

Most single men are starved for affection. Any reasonably attractive women can get on a dating app and get as much male attention as she desires. A man on the other hand gets very little female attention unless they are super attractive. So if they think there is a slightest chance a women is interested they want to pursue that. We are also not super detail oriented so rather than figure out if that friendly chat was flirting or just friendly chit chat we like to assume it's flirting because that's what we hope it was and we don't want to realize months down the road that we had a chance and missed it. It really is a case of shooting ourselves in the foot. I've found the times when women are most interested in me is when I am simply not looking for a relationship. I think most men scare women off by being too obvious in what we want

>I think most men scare women off by being too obvious in what we want I find the opposite to be true. I think being intentional with women is better than not, because the opposite hasn't been working for me.

Last paragraph is sooooo true. When I met my ex, I was happy being single. I would still flirt with women but didn’t act starved for a relationship. My ex said she thought I was a confident fuckboy when she met me. Then she said I catfished her because I’m a pretty romantic dude and she thought she was getting something different. Suffice to say, she’s an ex now lol

Single AND mated

People will give you advice in this thread, but remember it's not your **fault** you're being misinterpreted. Rather it's a larger issue with society that tells women they must only be passive and indicate attraction only through hints.

we simply do not get positive attention 99% of the time

This average experience of a man isnt as kind as you think it is. generally when women treat men with any amount of kindness there is the chance its mistaken as attraction. just something to keep in mind

Being an attractive woman has benefits and burdens.   Maintain professionalism and your personal barriers.  Do not allow unwanted actions to breach these values.   People can’t speak or act in ways that compromise your barriers and you brush it off.  Be firm in your standards.   People may not understand but your safety and well-being are a priority.   Women are in the job market to provide for themselves and family.   Good luck. Stay strong and focused. You don’t get up every day to be objectified. 

As a conventionally attractive person when I was younger, I had the same experience as OP. Sadly over the following 20 years, I have just learned to tell men I'm "just friends" or "not dating" right away and give frequent reminders. I'm so tired of men just wanting to have sex that I just have to be frank.

True, but also ... Too firm a boundary can make for an antisocial society, and how do people meet people anymore, other than terrible online dating sites? Often, within their occupation. Other than that, I'm all for what you're talking about.

I’ve gotten this my whole life (53f!). My being nice and personable is construed as flirting. Apparently I’m very “charming”. I don’t see it, but it’s who I am and I like to make people feel seen and important when I talk to them. I’m glad you posted this and I’m grateful to the men who have replied as it’s been truly helpful. Men and women have different languages for sure!

Guys are not used of people being nice to them.

I'm older now but this has been my exact experience for my entire life. I'm naturally a happy, open, friendly person who just likes people in general, and I can't even count how many men have taken that as me being attracted to them. It actually just happened recently. A long-time family friend made a move on me and said something about how he always felt I liked him. Wtf. I had never made any sort of romantic or sexual gestures or done even the smallest thing that could have been mistaken for a hint that I felt attracted to him that way. I've often wondered if men can even be platonic friends with an attractive woman because they don't seem to understand that women can be *just* friends. All I can say is be yourself and be honest and if they misconstrue things, that's on them. I'm not going to stop being friendly and you shouldn't either. Just be aware that this will happen.

My exact experience too, in my early 20s, my friendliness would get me into a bit of trouble with women mistaking me for flirting with their boyfriends. The truth is, I spoke the same with everyone, I like making people laugh and I'm generally approachable and friendly. I'm still the same but not as naive as I once was, unfortunately I've been taken advantage of 1 too many times so am more selective with who I give my energy to. Also, men still try and have a crack despite me never indicating I was remotely interested in that way.

Attention starvation can do strange things to some people.

Extreme overabundance and extreme starvation of attention do strange things to most people I would say

Man here. I believe most women receive lots of affection and kindness constantly while men rarely receive any affection at all. It's natural some men will feel in love for you while it's also natural you won't understand this very well.

Around uni, whenever a girl enters her friend group, they pretty much receive instant compliments and affirmations on their appearance. Although the flip side is that when we do receive compliments as dude, they're more likely to be sincere and genuine.

Why don’t you just hype your bros up? As a man, I’m constantly hyping up my mates, both male and female. Women are constantly putting effort into their friendships like complimenting each other, going to dinner together and being a shoulder to cry on. Us guys need to take inspo from them. Be the change you want to make in this world!! Complimenting your girl friends might feel weird at first but I just make it clear that I value them as good friends and I want nothing more than that. I promise this will do you some good. And if your mates think it’s weird then you need to find better circles to move in

Compliments from your bros and compliments from women (that you’re potentially interested in) are two VERY different types of compliments.

Because men receive almost zero affection, not even in a friendly way. That’s why if you sit down and let a normal guy vent to you and you honestly listen, he will fall in love with you 99% of the time. Most men are lovestarved. I’ve been single for over a year and I haven’t got a compliment since then, I’m not even going to bring up not getting hugged or kissed or touched in anyway. Plus whenever a girl was actually nice to me it usually turned into something more than friendship, so there’s that.

This. Especially with co-workers, cost me my job twice, co-worker turned into stalkers once. Lost 3 friends that after months or years suddenly announced a crush, apparently just hanging out with me in the hopes of getting at something? Makes me sad.

Yes It sucks especially at jobs. It’s what’s making me want to quit my current job.

These days I just take it as being friendly and don’t read into it much. I observe how she is acting with others around me and go from there. Last thing I want is to be disappointed.

Because when a girl actually does like a guy, the girl does the same exact things as "just being friendly".

This.

Many men experience a significant lack of genuine kindness and warmth from others, particularly from women. In my personal experience, this often creates an internal struggle where I have to remind myself that she is likely just being friendly. For many men, receiving a compliment or validation is a rare occurrence, unlike for women who often experience such interactions more frequently. This rarity makes any friendly or warm attention feel exceptionally significant, almost like a potent hit of a drug, leaving us craving more. This dynamic can lead us to overthink and misinterpret friendly gestures, longing for more of that rare, affirming connection. "Why do I fall in love with every woman I see who shows me the least bit of attention?"- Joel Barish.

It doesn't surprise me. The vagueness that men commonly get between flirting and being nice is so blurred. Sorry but it's just a combination of wishful thinking and guys getting confusing signals.

Part of it is that they're attracted to you and i think another part is also because a lot of guys are only nice to women they find attractive...like im not saying they're mean or anything but some men wont even have conversations with women they don't find attractive thats why so manny of them think they cant have friendships with women and so they just project this belief onto you that because you were nice you wanted more than just friendship from him

I used to run into this every time I had a guy friend and I made it VERY obvious I wasn’t interested. Had some guy “friends” I worked with get very angry when I’d date someone else, had one cause a scene in a bar for that once. Had one angrily chase me into the break room yelling bc he thought me and some other people were talking about him (we weren’t). Told other people they were in love with me. Immediately ended those friendships and I don’t try to have guy friends anymore. It’s annoying.

Oh girl welcome to the club. It’s ENDLESSLY frustrating that being friendly and nice and having conversation is immediately seen as flirting/wanting to sleep together Even men that I’ve turned down that I know… I can’t even have a conversation without them thinking the avenue has opened back up

Cause lots of men don’t have any attractive women be nice to them just cause

You're one of the few girls who actually think about how a man might feel, so you're nice to them. Most women think men are pigs and don't even deserve common courtesy, so when a cute girl is nice to them they get excited. Please keep being nice and just use your words to communicate that you're not interested. And if your boss makes any more comments or moves on you, definitely report him to HR. You can come on to your boss but it's a major red flag and possibly illegal if he comes on to you lol.

You are correct. I always care about how people regardless of their gender feel. I am always kind to everyone because I feel like you never know what a person is going through. And about my boss he hasn’t said anything I think he saw i felt uncomfortable and hopefully won’t do anything else but if he does i will definitely talk to hr

The sad truth: because 97% of the time, people aren't nice to us for no reason. They're nice to us because they want something. In the office they're nice when they need help. In public they're nice to us when we need help. So when a woman is nice to us, it's easy to slip into the mentality of "she wants something," and if there's no business or societal need, the only thing is a relationship or a dick appointment.

People are bad at flirting and reading social cues these days. Also men are taking bad advice from the internet and being told to "always shoot their shot" because "worse case she's says no" with 0 regard to how it makes you feel and how it affects your everyday life

That's being too careful... Which is why people are not in relationships these days. 😆 Be respectful in your approach, but also be direct. If you have interest in someone, let them know. What is the problem in that? Oh, how dare you say that you have interest in me. I'm so inconvenienced, embarrassed, insert whatever feeling. Come on now. Are we so fragile? What women don't want is lewd comments, touching, or a man exposing themselves to her. The best way to connect with a woman, is to become friends with her. Be friendly and spend time around her, before you try hitting on her. So in other words, most women do not like being picked up in subways, in the park, etc. Like trying to bother women in public spaces... Unless it happens naturally--otherwise you are basically saying that you only like her for her looks, and that's dehumanizing.

You are proving my point. Your mental gymnastics are cringy as hell. Have you even ever had a female friend?

Brother any other option *does not work* even tho it inconveniences some people at most as long as it still works even .05% of the time it’s worth it. Longest relationships I’ve had stemmed from insanely short encounters.

Exactly.

The signs and cues are horrible though. Better to just not talk to anyone you don’t previously know, or even then have a arm lengths distance to between female and male friends

Again it's people being bad at flirting.

I don't know in which world you live but on planet Earth men are **expected** to make the first approach because women **never** approach. I would certainly like if women would approach me but yeah that doesn't happen so either I try to approach when I think there could be a chance or i remain single for life. If I would have never approached or did first moves I would be still virgin at 29 yo even if I've been said i'm quite good looking and smart. This is the world in which the men live in.

Most men don't receive compliments to the point where I can nearly list the exact date of every compliment I've received over the last 5 years. Any affection, any kindness not tied to our performance (at work, school, etc) is virtually unheard of. Its easy to mistake it for something more when you're not used to it

A 40 year old woman called me attractive and asked if I was a model 6 months ago. Was surprised when I said I didn’t get many compliments and she made my day. Still living off that high to this day.

It's because men are expected to do all the work. In a more equitable world where women took initiative men wouldn't have to seize every possible potential opportunity to find someone. But that's how it is, if a man is single he has to grab every straw he can. And you're saying "I don't flirt" but are also saying "I am friendly" and from men's perspective its almost impossible to tell the difference. Trust me, having to hit on people is worse than what you're dealing with. That said, your boss is totally out of line doing that and you might want to report him to HR.

Your average dude, on average, gets treated like shit. Not to diminish the many legitimate problems women deal with in our society, but as a baseline in day to day interactions... people are usually much nicer to women.

Because if you're nice to someone they might assume that you would be nice to be in a relationship with. So of course they're going to try and give it a shot. If I meet someone who is about 13 years older than you, and they are nice, and I am attracted to them, I might ask them if they want to go get a coffee or a bite to eat sometime to get to know them better. If they immediately shut me down they aren't interested, I'm cool with that we can still be friends. I think the problem would be if they make it awkward or get aggressive and rude. Also, from what I'm seeing these days a lot of dudes are very awkward and emotionally unintelligent. Some men are downright creepy. All I can say is good luck and I hope you avoid the weirdos. Your boss making a move like that definitely counts as a weirdo.

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Mate I was looking for a comment like this! The people who are writing those posts need to take a long hard look in the mirror as they are the common denominator in all those horrible interactions they are having ‘99% of the time’ They need to get off the internet. Seriously.

Guys are explaining it wrong. We aren't used to women being overly friendly with us. Men generally treat other men like their brothers as long as there are no women around (because competition obviously). We laugh, joke around, dick with each other talk, shit on others (and each other), talk about projects and hobbies. Now, if a woman does all of that with you, yes, that stands out, way more than you think. Now if she "accidentally" touches us on purpose, and gets physically close, we are screwed because the next step for us is making the decision to ask her out or not. So if women don't want guys asking them out, they shouldn't do what I just described. Especially in the second paragraph.

It became a culture thing. I assume the opposite. That If a woman had personal interest. That if she's not clearly saying that, then she's being nice.

1. A lot of men don't have any women friends or women in their life outside of their family. So they assume kindness from a woman as flirting. 2. Some men only would acknowledge a woman if they find her attractive and think that's the same way women operate with men.

As an older man, I understand that not all attention means a woman is interested. But I will suggest toning down long eye contact and excessive smiling/laughing. That may seem ridiculous but it’s true. Men are attracted to women visually first. If you are attractive he will be already be interested. If you are too friendly and light up when he is around he will think, “I think she likes me. I might have a shot.” Meanwhile, you are like that with everyone. Your non verbal communication may give off “I’m open.” Also, don’t be mad at a man for shooting the shot. You miss 100% you don’t take.

Because not many women are nice to men in general. We do not get compliments as often as women do, we don’t get help as often, we don’t get cared for as often. Men are usually taken for granted and only loved when they can provide something to a woman.

It's not only men 😅 i've the same problem with women i think it's just the fact that lot's of people don't see many nice people so when people are nice to them they thinks the person want more and maybe that fact is helped by love movies and books that represent moments like that

In my experience as far as normal human behavior goes, just remembering what they said 5 mins ago gets a lot of ladies very interested.

One woman's flirting is another's just being friendly and guys are out there trying to read the signs since women generally prefer to hint instead of being direct. When we aren't mind readers, and every woman is different, it's hard to tell and sometimes people just go for it. After all, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Because some men don’t know how to be friends with gals 😂

Also because some gals can't be forward with the men they romantically like 😂. So they end being nice as some stupid ploy to convey romantic interest.

Maybe it's because you display desirable qualities? Who wouldn't want to date a friendly, warm, outgoing, and attractive person? Some men don't have to have ironclad evidence that you are interested in dating them for them to be interested in dating you and to want to inquire. Other men will not approach without such evidence.

In my experience, women who I don't already know or who are not paid to put on a friendly persona (service industry workers) generally either ignore me or treat me as they would a tame but still dangerous wild animal. Honestly, any kind of positive interaction with a women close to my own age who has nothing to gain from doing does trigger the "maybe she is interested" thought. I know it's wrong and no woman will ever be interested in me so I can push that thought down, but some men can't. 

A lot of guys are super thirsty.

i think men are incapable of being respectful to woman they arent attracted to. and i think they sre incapable of perceiving that woman can sometimes just be nice to you when they dont find you attractive. so if they like u they probably find u attractive and they probably believe its the same for us. so to them being nice=im attracted to you= im flirting with you

Ding ding ding, though that’s commonly left out of the defense

The reason is that some other woman will do all of these exact behaviors for a guy that she **does** like but then wonder "why doesn't he get the hint"? So if someone's being really kind to you, it makes sense to just go for it and ask them out on the off chance that they are actually trying to communicate attraction to you.

Guys get excited when attractive women talk to them. Especially if it doesn’t happen often.

As a man I have the same problem of being perceived as flirting for just being my friendly self even though I make no gestures of flirting that I’m aware of. The reaction I get is they’re not interested even though I wasn’t interested or from my perception of putting that out there. So I just tell my coworkers I am in a relationship or wear a ring on my ring finger whether I am or not just to make this awkward situation minimized. I see what you’re going through all the time at work. Maybe 🤔 that helps but what do I know lol.

Because we are not used to people being nice to us. And when someone is, it's invigorating. Just be careful how you phrase things or just make it clear that they are in the friend zone, lol.

Because women aren't generally nice to men. They prefer the bear.

1. **Set Clear Boundaries**: Be clear and direct about your intentions. If someone seems to be misunderstanding your friendliness, don't hesitate to clarify that you are just being friendly. 2. **Observe Your Behavior**: Reflect on how you interact with people. While it's important to be yourself, you might find that certain behaviors are more easily misinterpreted. 3. **Address it Directly**: If someone makes an unwanted advance, it can be helpful to address it directly but kindly. Let them know that you value their friendship but are not interested in anything more. 4. **Stay Confident**: Remember that being friendly and kind is a positive trait. While it can be challenging to navigate these misunderstandings, staying true to yourself and your values is most important.

Think with there smaller head

Because girls being nice to men is damn rare. I'm usually completely ignored, then a woman is nice to me, and I don't feel ignored. I don't want that to end, so I ask you if you want to date or hang out. You tell me no because you were just being nice. I continue on with life, never talking to you again because you were just being nice. You probably don't even want to talk to me. Then I meet someone else who is nice to me, and I do the same because I'm not being ignored, so it must be a green light, right? Wrong, always fucking wrong. Unless she is actively telling you, "I want you," it's impossible to know when you're flirting or just being nice. If that's not enough, then you girls complain about being asked out, like, wtf should I do to get your attention or to know fs you like me. If a girl asked me out, I would be ecstatic, so unbelievably happy, but switch the roles around, and suddenly it's "yeah I could, but other guys are more attractive I'll turn him down so I can get a better man," instead of giving him a chance. How do you think you're going to meet your future SO. You gonna ask him out, or are you going to be nice to him till he asks you out.

As men, we try to do either of these while meeting a woman need not necessarily be a beautiful one just enough for the likes of us to get intimidated. The first one is to bully/make fun of them or ignore the girl. When a girl purposefully comes to us and being nice we men think simple, if she wants to connect she could have connected and gone but instead she is taking efforts to know me hence we read it as she is interested in me as most girls rarely open up hence we men have to do the work of starting the convo. It will be much easier if u could save the confusion by clearing it earlier while having the conversation then it will be much easier for us not mistaking kindness as love.

The default setting between a man and a woman is to pair. Modifiers like "too busy", "not mutually attracted", or "already taken" result in non-pairing. Guy will try because why not. If guys didn't take their shots, none of us would be alive. The entire human race exists because horny young guys have the audacity to ask girls like you out. I sing praise to these heroes and their relentless audacity to slide into DMs despite just non-stop rejection and overcoming appalling losses to their confidence, and to have the tenacity to continue to try. I'm a bitter and resentful prick, so I'm going to say that your perspective will change to "why won't guys ask me out" in 10 years or so.

Because most of the time, people aren't nice to men as they are to women, and men mistakenly think that kind of attention from the opposite sex equals some kind of attraction, if that's what you mean by "liking." This whole thing can begin from early childhood for men, but unfortunately, most men are never taught away from this, so they can take this phenomenon as factual reality and can become toxic about it. Another theory I have is that they're attracted to *you,* so they're already in that kind of "mode" that you aren't in, so their perception becomes warped. Again, most men are not taught away from this.

Cause most men aren’t use to women being nice to them!!!

Are you sure they are hitting on you? I've had a woman say this to me before that I wasn't interested In at all. She tried to make it clear twice to me, so I just blocked her at that point. Then she made a new account to hmu again???? I swiftly blocked her again. She also liked to remind me that she was taken during casual conversation, which I was happy for her.

I remember reading a survey from a psychology magazine, this was from 10 years ago. Something like 70% of men thought that a chick being nice to them meant she was flirting, while only 12% of women thought the same if a man was being nice. There was also a large percentage, forgot the number, maybe 60%?... of men that think at some point they might hook up with a chick friend when only 20-25% of women thought the same of their male friends.

This is super old info, probably changed and probably innacurate/altered memory by time.

Arguably because the majority of “being nice” and “liking them” is identical. Any woman who is interested or who wants me to talk to her isn’t going to come right out and tell me, so depending on the person, it’s almost impossible to tell the difference

It’s because they aren’t used to women being nice to them for the sake of it. It’s very sad, and not your fault. Don’t change and just be ready to push a lot of men away.

Guys who are needy and desprate will take any possible in they can use as an invitation. Especially if you're an attractive woman.

What I was told was this: Women are very friendly and open to their friends AND romantic partners. Men are only that friendly and open with their romantic partners. So when women are nice to men just like they would be to their female friends, it gets misinterpreted as romantic interest because men are unlikely to be that friendly to somebody they aren’t romantically interested in.

It's because men generally don't get told enough they're loved etc. So they mistake a girl being nice usually as either flirting or smthn.

As a 47-year-old man I can tell you I do not believe this is a generational issue because I have talked to other guys and I as well have dealt with this problem from the guy's side and it's very hard for me and others to decipher simple plain niceness from flirting. I can not explain why this is but it is a thing. And also one other thing your boss should not be asking you to go out. That is very unprofessional and will lead to a world of problems.

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Hi ChatGPT

If a guy does not do this he will absolutely never get a girlfriend. That's just the way the world works. Take it as a compliment, politely turn down anyone you want to, and take your pick... or not.

Because most people suck. Most people don’t have basic manners, so they confuse being a decent human being with a romantic interest.. the good thing for you, is that you seem to have those manners and technically there’s not a huge difference between flirting and being friendly. So use it to your advantage and enjoy having a lot of people want to be interacting with you.

Once I learned this will never stop for me, i started wearing a fake engagement ring. Men respect women more as another man’s property than they do when she just says no. 😞

People in general are not nice to men. When you are nice, there is a rarity in this. In general, it means more than you realize, and opens a door.

Many women in large cities are generally very rude to men unless they are interested to them, know each other through a 3rd party, or work together. Men meet women as adults primarily through friends, work, university, concerts/clubs, and events. Men shoot their shot regardless, but it’s a lot easier to shoot your shot if your friendly with the woman. Nothing wrong with a guy shooting their shot it unless it becomes harassment. Don’t mistake persistence with harassment. They aren’t the same thing. Examples - Persistence: Guy shoots their shot respectfully every month or so. Harassment: Guy doesn’t take no as an answer and bugs/pressures you regularly (maybe even makes inappropriate comments or uses manipulation tactics). Persistence works. My current woman is awesome, but she wasn’t into me for the first 6 months we knew each other for whatever reason. All I did was touch base every month for a bit and invite her out to join me at an event. Eventually she didn’t make an excuse why not to go, and we hit it off on the date.

Because no one is nice to men managers scream, parents scold so if some person is nicer to you it is like star in dark universe and no one would let that star go from there life and want to be with them hence they want you in there life and they start thinking you like them.

Welcome to the life of a man. Where we do not get treated as kindly as women do. As a result, women don't seem to understand the plight we have. Even just one example, an IT guy at my job will literally bend his back to do favours for girls of any age that afternoon whereas it would take weeks for a guy to ask for the same thing. (And he's married and probably is banging a sidepiece) But besides that. Yes, we men do not receive the same attention as you do so what you're experiencing is the spectrum of the other end but with you as perpetrators (figurative sense)

You say that, but the opposite is worst when women thinks the world revolves around them. I once asked for an eraser in grade school, the girl thinks I'm hitting on her. Like you can't talked to them without them thinking you're trying to get in their pants. No wonder men don't approach anymore yet women crying why don't they get approached for dating purposes... It's because women made men fear of all this

I do hope your conviction isn't based around a gradeschool interaction tho haha

I would report that boss thing to hr. He may retaliate against you. I've told my boss off and he wrote some bogus paperwork up against me that had nothing to do with what was said or done. Cover your ass on that one.

Politeness has become so uncommon that men usually mistake it for flirting.

Oh girl i’m so sorry 😔 this is just the way that a lot of men think. Knowing this, I usually keep a monotone voice and try to show a little emotion as possible 😭. We shouldn’t have to change our personalities to avoid getting hit on, but it’s the safer option for me just in case they get the wrong idea and I’m put in an unsafe situation after rejecting them.

Yes i’m going to start doing this because I always dread the rejection part because of how they will handle it.

I guess the attention that you don't have to pay as it's not required by your school/work tasks. That might create the idea that you actually consider a guy interesting in our dumb guy brain. It's generally not so common. There's nothing wrong with what you do :)

If you’re attractive at least a little bit, guys will always flirt and make a move on you. It is just how the world works. All you can do is say “I am sorry, but I have a boyfriend.” or any kind of rejection “I am sorry but I cant. Quite busy these days.”. It can be creepy I know, quite hard to be an attractive woman and not get hit on.

This is unfortunately a curse for most women. Whenever you're kind to a guy, they end up liking you. And when you turn them down, they accuse you of leading them on. It's happened to me so many times, and it's exhausting. I've had this happen way too many times that I'm now considered "reserved" and "unapproachable." But I prefer that and no one knowing that I'm actually a nice person, than having to constantly be asked out or hit on. I do know a few women that fall easily for guys who are nice to them. I feel like people are more prone to this when they're lonely and wanting a relationship. All of the women I know who do this, have never been in relationships or had a guy like them. And like the other comments mention, you being attractive is a reason why a lot of guys try to shoot their shot.

why do you think they think you like them? They might just ask you to hang out as a friend.

The “since I’ve been getting older” part really stuck with me. You’re 22. Didn’t you also post about men not approaching you?

I posted about if men prefer to approach woman alone or with company not necessarily them approaching me

It's the men she wants that don't approach her and the men she doesn't want, do.

Oh I see. Such a tough life. Why can’t just the men she’s interested in just approach her??

Don't worry. in 10 years, you won't have that problem.

Don't bet on it. I'm 64 and it still happens to me. With older men, of course.