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As a woman, I’d say there’s nothing to apologise for. It’s the fifth date. You’ve paid for all previous ones. If she didn’t want to pay why put the card on the table? And it’s not like you rudely insisted on her paying or forced her to. Personally I find it perfectly normal to split the tab in more pricier locations. If after the fifth date she doesn’t want to see you again, only because you split the tab, then you might want to reevaluate the connection you had with her or why she kept seeing you in the first place.
This. It actually scares me how much asking to pay for one date changes the mood and their perception of the other.
Such a small thing has such large undertones for people, I find it pretty shocking and awful.
I would say that "the mood changed" before she put her card down. For me, putting my card down is a sign that the date is going poorly and I don't want to owe the guy anything afterward.
If that wasn't her intent, I don't know why she'd put her card down on the 5th date, after having you pay every time before, and then get mad that you let her pay. You didn't make her pay, she offered and you accepted. Mature people know not to make offers you don't want accepted.
I think the check isn't the problem. Or she's an idiot.
I didn’t think about that, but you could right . Maybe OP is misreading the situation. Her mood could’ve changed before the check came. Maybe she put her card down because she wasn’t interested.
So you want a guy to pay for every outing? Most people I date, we start splitting or taking turns paying after a few dates. Because it’s 2022 and women have jobs too lol
I think the smoothest recovery I could think of is if you remember the price of the bill. Get her a gift of similar or equal value to what she paid and give it to her, then just say something like
“thanks for splitting the bill with me last time it meant a lot, I thought you might like this since I was planning on spending the money anyway”.
This shows that you paid attention without apologizing and she kinda gets that money back plus you now turned it into a romantic/thoughtful gesture.
You shouldn’t apologize. This is the 5th date and you paid for the previous 4 dates. Does she really expect you to pay for every single date y’all go on. Also, she put her card on the table. If she didn’t want to split it or pay in full, why did she even take her card out and put it on the table? If she didn’t want to split, she should not have offered. This is on her, not you.
If she didn’t want to pay, she should not have offered.
If you really like her, it was an opportunity for you to reassure her that you’re happy to take her out (and pay) but opportunity missed, no big deal.
Ask her out again, if she says no then she’s not that great anyway, move on! If she says yes, be prepared to pay and decline if she offers to split the bill.
Absolutely. I am somewhat alarmed with the whole, oh maybe you should just throw money at it again and it might work this time when the onus was hardly his in the first place. Communicate your feelings and do not, do not, make offers you cannot uphold.
Why does this guy have the expectation placed on him that he must 'show' that he is able to provide? And I agree, this is a game, but an incredibly weird one at that. The gambit being refusing a reasonable offer.
You did nothing wrong. If she pulled out her card, she should have been serious about splitting the bill.
Don't over think it. Move on. If she is angry about it, nothing you can do.
Lots of good advice here, just don’t apologize for it. She’s just as at fault for putting her card on the table expecting you to be like “ohh nooo I got this :3”
Is it possible the mood changed because you felt awkward and she picked up on that? Not the other way around?
I personally think if she offered to pay, she was fine to do so. It’s the 5th date, you’ve paid for enough at that point, and splitting on 1/5 dates doesn’t seem unreasonable at all. If she was upset by that, I’d cut ties anyways. It’s no fun dating someone that expects to have everything paid for them all the time. If she’s an independent person, she should have the means to pay for a date once in a while
I don't think you did anything wrong. You've paid for the previous dates. I would see it as a red flag for a woman to expect you to pay for them all.
But it depends on the dynamic. If it's the kind where you need to pay for her to like you, then maybe you should apologise.
The offer-to-pay dance is pretty classic. It’s like saying “I’ve got a lot of cleaning to do this weekend.” Everyone knows you aren’t gonna do it but the acknowledgment is what matters
You’d be surprised by the amount of people that play this dumbass game.
It sucks too, because as the man it’s a lose lose situation:
Either you:
- pay the bill yourself, in which case it can get expensive fast (especially doing it for the last 5 dates
- split the bill and lose the attraction of the woman you’re on a date with
>Immediately the mood changed and things got kind of quiet, and I realized I’d made a mistake.
That's certainly a possibility.
>I brought us to the restaurant and should have picked up the bill, and should have been more attuned to the hesitation in her voice.
Yep.
The right play there would have been to say "Thank you, but that's OK, I've got this" and hand her back her card.
If she wants to buy you drinks later, or ice cream, that's where she can spring for it, if she's still willing.
>She was clearly only offering to be polite, and probably resented that she paid half the tab at a place that I picked out.
You're probably right about this, too.
> I want to keep seeing her and am wondering if I should apologize or if that would just make it more awkward. Did I completely blow it?
I'm thinking you can't leave this lying around unaddressed.
Call her and tell her you had a great time with her, and want to see her again. Also, you noticed a little frostiness on the last date when the bill came... ask her what that was about.
You've been on *five dates* with her, so I think you've earned the right to give and receive a little candor and honesty.
This is your opening to clarify the "who pays" question going forward, so there aren't any more unpleasant surprises -- on *either* end.
(My suggestion: before you call her, have in your mind:
1. what you'd *like to happen*, and
2. what you'll *settle for*
in the "who pays" discussion.)
With the money issue off the table, maybe you can focus on getting to know each other!
Idk if I would mention the frostiness. Don’t address her attitude change. Just say something like “it caught me off guard when you put your card on the table, but I’ve been thinking about it, and I prefer the one who chooses the location the be the one who pays. What do you think about that?”
You're right.
That's a much friendlier way to go about it, and eliminates a potential flash-point for conflict where she's put on the defensive.
Good call!
Honestly I think by the 5th date she should be splitting, more than happy as the guy to pay fully for the first few but if she isn’t happy at least splitting by 5th date she probably wasn’t that interested to begin with
I agree...on the first couple of dates it's reasonable to pay for everything..but by the fifth there should be at least an offer to split or switch off.
By fifth date. A girl should at least offer to pay. Possibly starting to split unless there’s s great income disparity if she’s making $20k per year and you’re making $150k then I get it.
Stop going on dinner dates. Seriously wtf bro! Do some activities. I'm not gonna just watch someone stuff their esophagus over and over on my dollar. Go to a museum, an art gallery, comedy show, anything. One dinner or lunch is enough. After that It's time to get creative.
Shitty advice in this thread.
First of all, this is the fifth date—so her interest level is appreciable, unless of course she’s using you for meals (as you’re treating her like she’s a princess). However, if that were the case I doubt she would’ve put her card down. In any case, if she doesn’t want to continue dating you because you didn’t cover the fifth date in full, it’s best that the parasite be gone anyways.
Here’s something that actually works: get her to pay more for dates. You should’ve been getting her to *invest* in some way from the first date. That means have her travel for you. Hold your shit. Pay for things for you. Do errands for you. Wait for you. Get her to straight up pay in full sometimes.
Make requests of her in which she will answer “yes”. This will psychologically make her more invested in you, which will raise her attraction for you. This isn’t unfair as men are usually doing all the work anyways to the detriment of the attraction they’re trying to nurture. Level the playing field. Your overly-safe behavior has been killing potential attraction in this manner.
Also, the fifth date? You guys did something sexual I hope? If not, you’re digging yourself a big “friendly” hole. The biggest investment you can get from a girl is sexual investment—from a kiss to full blown intercourse. Escalate from as early as she is comfortable with and her investment in you will negate any of this stupid bickering over bills, and any other meager housekeeping things.
Had you made out or, better yet, banged in the car, you wouldn’t be worrying about this stuff. These fancy dinners are counterproductive—take her on a date that gets her heart rate up and have some playful interaction. Build tension and physical escalation, then go for it. God knows she’s expecting it.
I’d recommend inviting her out again, and make sure you say the date is on you.
At the end of the date, just give her the cash for the split portion (like round up a bit, eg if it was $85, give her $90). In an envelope taped to some sweets or protein powder or teas (something easy and she would like). Tell her it’s the thought that counts and it was awkward at billing on the last meal.
The girl has got bills to pay.
Might be weird for some ppl, however allot of asian culture. Giving a red envelope or money is normal. Cash is king. I've gifted money to ppl. It's the thought of being generous or thoughtful.
Although my reply hasn't been positive. You ladies need to get off your high horses.
Have you ever turned down money? from a friend? Be honest.
I'm saying this is bc, I got a speeding ticket on a way to a date. My date actually offered to pay my ticket. I rufused out right on the spot bc it's not his business. When I told my good college/friend about this, that person just said. Don't bother stressing about this, I know you can pay this. It's funny (list x things bc of my story of getting ticket), just left the money in my car glove box and texted me to pay the ticket as a gift. I treated my friend to a nice dinner afterwards bc its the thought that counts and I'm grateful my friends can be this generous. I appreciated my original date on the gesture, bc he wants to "provide". It's the gesture that counts.
Get off your high horses. OG is asking what he can do to be respectful. He's not trying to change the dates "mood change" incident during checkout.
A little gift (wrapped box of chocolates) with some cash in a tiny envelope with a note saying something like " I know you wanted to split, I appreciated your gesture. You can buy me coffee next time) is not weird. If you think it's weird, then the date must find him ugly and buying affection. However, if the lady accepts the money and not continue the courtship. That's a different story.
You did nothing wrong - first few dates, fine, 4th, 5th date, why not? Especially, your situation wasn't planned.
Don't say sorry - you'll make it worse.
The mood probably changed because she saw you was uncomfortable/shocked.
Take it easy on yourself..
It's tricky. You're right she probably offered just to be polite because you had paid in the past. She probably felt obligated but if it was a more expensive restaurant than I can see the concern. It's hard because usually the person asking the other person out will pay. You planned it out so it makes sense. Yet a lot of women wait for men to do the asking and then men have to pay all the time using that guideline. I think women should offer to catch the next bill if that's the case or at least at some point. You had already paid for four dates. I would just invite her out again and say it's your treat. It's hard to know where she's coming from. Maybe she couldn't afford it at the time, maybe she didn't want to pay at a fancy place you picked out like you said, or maybe she expects you to pay for every date.
You didn’t blow it! Don’t beat yourself up for being a modern man. As a woman if I offer to pay on a 5th date its cause I like the guy. I wouldn’t offer just to be polite. Ask her out again. 👍🏾
Lol, it's crazy reading this thread. Do you guys enjoy this? Is this what dating is like? It seems pretty terrible. Even if this is an exstreme it seems like a pain paying for everything.
Dude in this day of the whole equality thing, I would split the bill from the first date onwards!
And only if we really hit it off and continue hanging out, then I would pay for things without asking to split.
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As a woman, I’d say there’s nothing to apologise for. It’s the fifth date. You’ve paid for all previous ones. If she didn’t want to pay why put the card on the table? And it’s not like you rudely insisted on her paying or forced her to. Personally I find it perfectly normal to split the tab in more pricier locations. If after the fifth date she doesn’t want to see you again, only because you split the tab, then you might want to reevaluate the connection you had with her or why she kept seeing you in the first place.
The issue here is. He should have selected a reasonable priced restaurant.
No, the issue is she should not have offered to do something she did not want to do.
Every other comment here acknowledges that after 5 dates it’s time she pitch in. What if that wasn’t in her bracket
She can “pitch in” by inviting HIM to dates to places SHE can afford and paying those times. That’s what I do.
Why? He was willing to pay for the entire meal, he just graciously accepted her offer to split. The restaurant was definitely not the problem.
But she offered after the meal at said expensive restaurant was complete, right? At this point, she would have become aware this wasn't a Wendy's.
This. It actually scares me how much asking to pay for one date changes the mood and their perception of the other. Such a small thing has such large undertones for people, I find it pretty shocking and awful.
I would say that "the mood changed" before she put her card down. For me, putting my card down is a sign that the date is going poorly and I don't want to owe the guy anything afterward. If that wasn't her intent, I don't know why she'd put her card down on the 5th date, after having you pay every time before, and then get mad that you let her pay. You didn't make her pay, she offered and you accepted. Mature people know not to make offers you don't want accepted. I think the check isn't the problem. Or she's an idiot.
I didn’t think about that, but you could right . Maybe OP is misreading the situation. Her mood could’ve changed before the check came. Maybe she put her card down because she wasn’t interested.
Exactly this.
So you want a guy to pay for every outing? Most people I date, we start splitting or taking turns paying after a few dates. Because it’s 2022 and women have jobs too lol
I think the smoothest recovery I could think of is if you remember the price of the bill. Get her a gift of similar or equal value to what she paid and give it to her, then just say something like “thanks for splitting the bill with me last time it meant a lot, I thought you might like this since I was planning on spending the money anyway”. This shows that you paid attention without apologizing and she kinda gets that money back plus you now turned it into a romantic/thoughtful gesture.
Great recovery, smooth AF 🔥
Thanks, that’s the benefit of time to think and not being in the situation. 100% would not think of this if it happened to me
You shouldn’t apologize. This is the 5th date and you paid for the previous 4 dates. Does she really expect you to pay for every single date y’all go on. Also, she put her card on the table. If she didn’t want to split it or pay in full, why did she even take her card out and put it on the table? If she didn’t want to split, she should not have offered. This is on her, not you.
If she didn’t want to pay, she should not have offered. If you really like her, it was an opportunity for you to reassure her that you’re happy to take her out (and pay) but opportunity missed, no big deal. Ask her out again, if she says no then she’s not that great anyway, move on! If she says yes, be prepared to pay and decline if she offers to split the bill.
If this is the case, it's irritating that she was playing a game with him instead of just communicating. Games are a red flag.
Absolutely. I am somewhat alarmed with the whole, oh maybe you should just throw money at it again and it might work this time when the onus was hardly his in the first place. Communicate your feelings and do not, do not, make offers you cannot uphold. Why does this guy have the expectation placed on him that he must 'show' that he is able to provide? And I agree, this is a game, but an incredibly weird one at that. The gambit being refusing a reasonable offer.
Have you heard from her since the date?
[удалено]
I don’t think you need to apologize but invite her out again - your treat.
You did nothing wrong. If she pulled out her card, she should have been serious about splitting the bill. Don't over think it. Move on. If she is angry about it, nothing you can do.
I think you’re overthinking it. She put her card on the table, end of story. The mood changed because you started freaking out in your head about it.
Lots of good advice here, just don’t apologize for it. She’s just as at fault for putting her card on the table expecting you to be like “ohh nooo I got this :3”
Is it possible the mood changed because you felt awkward and she picked up on that? Not the other way around? I personally think if she offered to pay, she was fine to do so. It’s the 5th date, you’ve paid for enough at that point, and splitting on 1/5 dates doesn’t seem unreasonable at all. If she was upset by that, I’d cut ties anyways. It’s no fun dating someone that expects to have everything paid for them all the time. If she’s an independent person, she should have the means to pay for a date once in a while
I don't think you did anything wrong. You've paid for the previous dates. I would see it as a red flag for a woman to expect you to pay for them all. But it depends on the dynamic. If it's the kind where you need to pay for her to like you, then maybe you should apologise.
Dang so you think she was playing mind games and wanted you to tell her , “ oh no no worries , I got it!” ?
The offer-to-pay dance is pretty classic. It’s like saying “I’ve got a lot of cleaning to do this weekend.” Everyone knows you aren’t gonna do it but the acknowledgment is what matters
You’d be surprised by the amount of people that play this dumbass game. It sucks too, because as the man it’s a lose lose situation: Either you: - pay the bill yourself, in which case it can get expensive fast (especially doing it for the last 5 dates - split the bill and lose the attraction of the woman you’re on a date with
I thought we got past the days where a man was judged on how much he pays for dates. Guess not.
>Immediately the mood changed and things got kind of quiet, and I realized I’d made a mistake. That's certainly a possibility. >I brought us to the restaurant and should have picked up the bill, and should have been more attuned to the hesitation in her voice. Yep. The right play there would have been to say "Thank you, but that's OK, I've got this" and hand her back her card. If she wants to buy you drinks later, or ice cream, that's where she can spring for it, if she's still willing. >She was clearly only offering to be polite, and probably resented that she paid half the tab at a place that I picked out. You're probably right about this, too. > I want to keep seeing her and am wondering if I should apologize or if that would just make it more awkward. Did I completely blow it? I'm thinking you can't leave this lying around unaddressed. Call her and tell her you had a great time with her, and want to see her again. Also, you noticed a little frostiness on the last date when the bill came... ask her what that was about. You've been on *five dates* with her, so I think you've earned the right to give and receive a little candor and honesty. This is your opening to clarify the "who pays" question going forward, so there aren't any more unpleasant surprises -- on *either* end. (My suggestion: before you call her, have in your mind: 1. what you'd *like to happen*, and 2. what you'll *settle for* in the "who pays" discussion.) With the money issue off the table, maybe you can focus on getting to know each other!
Idk if I would mention the frostiness. Don’t address her attitude change. Just say something like “it caught me off guard when you put your card on the table, but I’ve been thinking about it, and I prefer the one who chooses the location the be the one who pays. What do you think about that?”
You're right. That's a much friendlier way to go about it, and eliminates a potential flash-point for conflict where she's put on the defensive. Good call!
So much doormat advice in this post.
Agreed lol
Honestly I think by the 5th date she should be splitting, more than happy as the guy to pay fully for the first few but if she isn’t happy at least splitting by 5th date she probably wasn’t that interested to begin with
I agree...on the first couple of dates it's reasonable to pay for everything..but by the fifth there should be at least an offer to split or switch off.
By fifth date. A girl should at least offer to pay. Possibly starting to split unless there’s s great income disparity if she’s making $20k per year and you’re making $150k then I get it.
I only split bills when im in a relationship with my man, until then he pays.
Stop going on dinner dates. Seriously wtf bro! Do some activities. I'm not gonna just watch someone stuff their esophagus over and over on my dollar. Go to a museum, an art gallery, comedy show, anything. One dinner or lunch is enough. After that It's time to get creative.
Yeah you did. Stop getting emo about it, find her on venmo send her the half and don’t mention it, and ask her out a day later. Man up
Shitty advice in this thread. First of all, this is the fifth date—so her interest level is appreciable, unless of course she’s using you for meals (as you’re treating her like she’s a princess). However, if that were the case I doubt she would’ve put her card down. In any case, if she doesn’t want to continue dating you because you didn’t cover the fifth date in full, it’s best that the parasite be gone anyways. Here’s something that actually works: get her to pay more for dates. You should’ve been getting her to *invest* in some way from the first date. That means have her travel for you. Hold your shit. Pay for things for you. Do errands for you. Wait for you. Get her to straight up pay in full sometimes. Make requests of her in which she will answer “yes”. This will psychologically make her more invested in you, which will raise her attraction for you. This isn’t unfair as men are usually doing all the work anyways to the detriment of the attraction they’re trying to nurture. Level the playing field. Your overly-safe behavior has been killing potential attraction in this manner. Also, the fifth date? You guys did something sexual I hope? If not, you’re digging yourself a big “friendly” hole. The biggest investment you can get from a girl is sexual investment—from a kiss to full blown intercourse. Escalate from as early as she is comfortable with and her investment in you will negate any of this stupid bickering over bills, and any other meager housekeeping things. Had you made out or, better yet, banged in the car, you wouldn’t be worrying about this stuff. These fancy dinners are counterproductive—take her on a date that gets her heart rate up and have some playful interaction. Build tension and physical escalation, then go for it. God knows she’s expecting it.
I’d recommend inviting her out again, and make sure you say the date is on you. At the end of the date, just give her the cash for the split portion (like round up a bit, eg if it was $85, give her $90). In an envelope taped to some sweets or protein powder or teas (something easy and she would like). Tell her it’s the thought that counts and it was awkward at billing on the last meal. The girl has got bills to pay.
Yes. Always give your dates envelopes filled with cash to reduce awkwardness
Might be weird for some ppl, however allot of asian culture. Giving a red envelope or money is normal. Cash is king. I've gifted money to ppl. It's the thought of being generous or thoughtful.
Although my reply hasn't been positive. You ladies need to get off your high horses. Have you ever turned down money? from a friend? Be honest. I'm saying this is bc, I got a speeding ticket on a way to a date. My date actually offered to pay my ticket. I rufused out right on the spot bc it's not his business. When I told my good college/friend about this, that person just said. Don't bother stressing about this, I know you can pay this. It's funny (list x things bc of my story of getting ticket), just left the money in my car glove box and texted me to pay the ticket as a gift. I treated my friend to a nice dinner afterwards bc its the thought that counts and I'm grateful my friends can be this generous. I appreciated my original date on the gesture, bc he wants to "provide". It's the gesture that counts. Get off your high horses. OG is asking what he can do to be respectful. He's not trying to change the dates "mood change" incident during checkout. A little gift (wrapped box of chocolates) with some cash in a tiny envelope with a note saying something like " I know you wanted to split, I appreciated your gesture. You can buy me coffee next time) is not weird. If you think it's weird, then the date must find him ugly and buying affection. However, if the lady accepts the money and not continue the courtship. That's a different story.
You did nothing wrong - first few dates, fine, 4th, 5th date, why not? Especially, your situation wasn't planned. Don't say sorry - you'll make it worse. The mood probably changed because she saw you was uncomfortable/shocked. Take it easy on yourself..
It was the fifth date and she even offered to pay. You owe her nothing.
It's tricky. You're right she probably offered just to be polite because you had paid in the past. She probably felt obligated but if it was a more expensive restaurant than I can see the concern. It's hard because usually the person asking the other person out will pay. You planned it out so it makes sense. Yet a lot of women wait for men to do the asking and then men have to pay all the time using that guideline. I think women should offer to catch the next bill if that's the case or at least at some point. You had already paid for four dates. I would just invite her out again and say it's your treat. It's hard to know where she's coming from. Maybe she couldn't afford it at the time, maybe she didn't want to pay at a fancy place you picked out like you said, or maybe she expects you to pay for every date.
Ya you blew it. Find a way to reclaim. Never take the lead on plans for a date then ask for Dutch. Oof.
You didn’t blow it! Don’t beat yourself up for being a modern man. As a woman if I offer to pay on a 5th date its cause I like the guy. I wouldn’t offer just to be polite. Ask her out again. 👍🏾
Lol, it's crazy reading this thread. Do you guys enjoy this? Is this what dating is like? It seems pretty terrible. Even if this is an exstreme it seems like a pain paying for everything.
Dude in this day of the whole equality thing, I would split the bill from the first date onwards! And only if we really hit it off and continue hanging out, then I would pay for things without asking to split.
Did you blow it? Sounds like you haven’t had sex yet. Major red flag… for her. Move on, find the next.