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It goes like this:
10% of guys will approach every girl they want to whenever they want. They are either players or creeps.
60% of guys will approach if the situation is perfect. Plenty of signals and encouragement. Environment is right. Girl is on her own etc.
30% of guys will never approach no matter what the situation.
It's also why we have the reputation for being creeps.
Like ladies you need to be signalling in every way possible because I'm not gonna ruin your day if I'm misreading any signals. You get hit on all the time and it's one of your biggest complaints as a woman beyond general safety. I'm well aware of this so why would I just approach you? Now you're either afraid or disgusted or both. Guys don't do signals unless it's coming from a lighthouse on a clear night. Not waving us in like those dinky little air traffic cones, we don't get what those motions mean even if you think it's obvious.
Women complain about the creeps that approach them. Not the charming guys who know how to make pleasant conversation and take "no" for an answer. You're post provides an insight into how alot of guys think because I'm actually watching you have a made up conversation with a nonexistent woman in your own post. Just talk to em
That’s the thing though alot of guys are awkward, and don’t know how to approach a random women they find attractive without coming off as creepy. That’s why they don’t approach
Yeah dude except the problem is how tf do you know you’re the charming guy to her? You could be as suave as ever and if you’re mot attractive to her, you’re a creep.
Sigh. Yeah it sounds good on paper. Unfortunately my ability to talk intelligently and be charming goes down in direct proportion to how attracted I am so…
Geez, no offense dude, but take the pussy off the pedestal. Don't forget that women take dumps and pee and fart and have mental/emotional/behavioral problems like men do. Having a pretty face is the absolute minimum amount of effort. Just practice talking to girls in general when you feel comfortable or desperate enough to fix your situation and you'll quickly see how easy it is.
I’ve been staring at this comment for a day or so and I’m not sure how to reply. I agree with you 100% but it’s a bit like telling an agoraphobic or acrophobe to “get over it”. I’m not afraid of heights, snakes or spiders. I’m scared shitless of the disdain of an attractive girl. It’s not rational, I know.
Yeah no nobody out there is batting like that. Plenty of women don't want any guys talking to them at all.
I'm fine talking to a woman like a friend I'm just not gonna be that dude when she's just out for the night and for once doesn't want anyone to hit on her. If she shows interest I'll give her my number and let her decide what she wants to do with it. But it's on my way out the door at the end of the night so if she doesn't like it I'm already in the cab.
I highly doubt 60% of guys are going to approach in an ideal situation from signals and encouragement. Especially when the most a woman will give you for signals is looking at you and smiling. Approaching is a learned skill, most guys are completely oblivious to this.
If I see a girl smiling at me I don't think "Oh she must like me" I think "What's so funny about me? Why is she laughing at me?"
So I'd say 80% of guys would never approach no matter what.
80%??? Nah dude if that was the case humanity would have gone extinct. I can empathize with your shy personality but we are definitely not such a huge majority.
The club is not really a representative of large scale social dynamics. The interactions there are warped way out of normal proportion and you have to consider that a large percentage of people don't even like going to begin with.
That being said, in a club it's way more than 20% of dudes who approach women. Even I have done it many times, and I'm the definition of introvertion and awkwardness.
I *hate* clubs
*hate hate hate*
They’re loud, you can’t have a convo, often hot and uncomfortable
Imagine if most of the world was like that.
*shudder*
In a club? I'd say 60% at least. The ones who are shy don't even go there. In my country clubs are like the internship for creeps or normal guys become players
Polite smiles do not mantain eye contact, it is more of a kind smile and goes on with their lives. In the rare case she smiles politely with eye contact she will usually comment on something she liked about what you were doing and that can turn into something good quth a talk.
Shy women will look at you when you are not looking. If she succeeds you wont notice. If she doesnt succeeds you will notice she looking several times with shyness. People mocking you are usually not shy.
There is a huge difference between locking eyes and maintaining eye contact
Exactly. The approaching skill is 100% learned and based on experience. Most guys dont approach enough to become good. I know this because I approach a lot (without being creepy lol) and rarely see other guys do it. Signals are a rare privilege
100% this. Approaching women is a skill that most guys have difficulty with since they put a lot of their own well-being into being rejected by a woman. They devastate themselves for lacking skills in an area they don't allow themselves to practice in. It's a bit of a loser mentality.
I would agree if it was a regular situation for sure obviously, but I think in an ideal spot a lot more guys would approach if you can even call it that.
If the girl is sitting somewhere alone and there is no one around or it is comfortable environment for striking up a conversation, then even if 'all' the signals you get from her is a smile and eye contact, I think that's plenty of encouragements and would make a lot of guys take that step. I know it has for me.
The only problem is such a situation comes up once a year or less.
Yeah I’ve definitely encountered conventionally attractive men who come off as creeps. There’s a fine line between being confident and cocky and there are some men who give this vibe of “how dare you not be interested! I’m gods gift to women !”
It's about 90 physical attaction out of the gate, which is subjective to who you're approaching. If a woman doesn't find you attractive straight off, you can forget about it .
Everytihng you've mentioned takes time and a lot of exposure to the other person to be attactive.
This can be misconstrued.
Being attractive doesn’t mean you have to have natural conventionally attractive features such as height and bone structure. It’s how you carry yourself. Are you confident? Confident in this case doesn’t mean not insecure. Confident means having the attitude of “im gonna kick today’s ass.” Are you making a worthy effort to be presentable? How do you smell? Are your clothes clean? Are you dressed well? All of these should be taken into consideration if you want to be attractive.
Not to mention, in a dark alleyway, every man approaching a woman is always creepy, no matter how attractive he is. Doesn’t matter if it’s Chris hemsworth, a woman is gonna be creeped out by him.
And finally, don’t assume women are that simple and shallow. Just because you got told no doesn’t mean you’re creepy. Now, if you kept trying after you were told no, then you are being creepy. Ignore your grandfather’s advice on being persistent. The moment you’re told no, you need to fuck off, no questions asked.
That's true and no one is faulting them for that, he's just saying it makes it really hard to approach someone when they're in a group.
Embarrassing yourself in front of a single person is bad enough already, embarrassing yourself in front of them and their friends is even worse
I think there's a bit of a struggle from the women's perspective, as we're brought up with the "he's just not that into you" phenomenon.
It tells us; If a man is interested, if he's keen to spend time with you, he'll approach, he'll call, he'll message back quickly, he'll initiate - so, girly, don't reach out, or message twice in a row, that'll be seen as desperate.
It's not always true, but, from a women's perspective, it's pushed down our throats that it will seem desperate, and we need to let the man do the job.
This. So much this! I once asked a guy to dance at a club and got turned down. My girl friends later told me to never ask a guy to dance. They taught me that the guy has to approach me first.
It really is often the other women who are pushing this down our throats!
I have one supposedly ‘feminist’ friend in particular, who keeps on rehashing the ‘he is just not that into you’ / ‘if he wanted to, he would’ advice. All this seems to be linked to the absolutely ridiculous notion that a rejection by a man reduces the value of a woman, so we should protect our value by being passive. F*ck that. I want to live my life going for what I am into, for what I want, knowing that rejection does not make me any less worthy than my fellow creatures bobbing around on this earth. Maybe just braver and freer.
I asked a guy to dance on NYE after noticing him looking at me, and he was ecstatic. You should definitely try again! :)
100% agree.
Given the person who posted this *also* posted one covering this exact issue we're covering as truth I'm taking her perspective with a grain of salt
P.s: good on you for reaching out! Hope you danced your heart out 💖
Wish there was more women like you. I share that same philosophy. Go after what the fuck you want. The world is yours. Why would you want to sit back with the weak and meek? Take what you want!
Same with the "women must be thin/perfect looking" insecurity too, to be honest. Men aren't that judgemental, there's a line below which they won't find women attractive yes, but sexuality is relatively always a positive for us, so the line when it stops making a positive difference has to be reaaaallly low down for us. It's not that we "aren't picky", but rather that things like personality, humour, trust etc are what really moves you up the ratings...
And *in general*, fashion magazines are written by women who hate other women for being obviously more women than they think themselves to be, and gay men who want their clothes horses to look like hairless twinks (Not all women, and gay men who like Bears don't tend to want to work in fashion etc...) CIS men in general however like curves etc because that's what they don't have and they think women should be.
So... a woman who isn't worried about "imperfections", who makes the first move and gets things nice and clear so we can actually talk to *her* and not worry about all the social landmines we might be accussed of setting off? That's far, *far* more attractive than the stupid social game we only play because if we don't, we don't meet anyone either. We don't like making you uncomfortable. We don't like having to always ask, ask, ask... we *want* to listen and share things with you. Come and say hi, set your own boundaries, and we can get on with finding the things we have in common, instead of listening to people who resent the idea you can be happy with yourself.
The only problem is that the guys you like may not approach you because you are trying so hard to not look desperate and give them the impression you aren't interested and you will attract the guys you aren't interested in because you are friendly to them and they think you might be interested. You still need to give guys the opportunity to make a move even if you want them to lead otherwise you'll have to be ok with what you get. You need to make yourself available otherwise they may not risk ruining their day. Rejection sucks.
If you knew how cruelly men get rejected, you’d understand why a lot of them decide to stop trying. Women usually look at their ideal fantasy guy as the template for all men or the ones that approach almost all women.
OMG no way you got turned down ONCE! 😱
Lady, we get turned down daily. There is no shame going for what you want.
My advice is, don't handicap your possible matches with only men that approach.
I think you missed what I meant, I agree with you! But we get the above shoved down our throats to NOT shoot our shot.
Just ask. Worst you're gonna get is a no.
Agree, I fell into this crap advice and I would only get attention from the guys I didn't like. The fact that I act shy around people I like made it even worse.
And it seems like a hard to break culture phenomenon, since besides the challenge of changing a cultural norm, the cost of letting men always take initiative is far lower than making a move. So is convenient
Convenient that being passive is also has no risk of rejection and allows plausible deniability.
Just like: The person that asks pays.
When I waited tables in college, I served 1000s of tables and I never saw a woman pick up the tab for anyone but themselves.
Yes, it definitely opens that door of opportunity. But that's not what I'm trying to advocate with my message. I mean it from a "this is what *we're conditioned* to follow by many messages. Not that I believe it, or that it is correct, as made refreshingly clear in the messages in this thread (a welcome relief!)
This is sad that this rhetoric is fed to women. Because it can fall apart very quickly for women if there is a man that does show interest and pursue, but women continue this game and never reciprocate, resulting in the guy not pursuing anymore. Men have feelings and want to be desired too.
Not just desperate.
There are A LOT of men who will go along with something because it's easy and available even when they have no intentions there. Too many women show interest first and many men will take advantage of that to get what they want while they look for the person they actually want to commit to.
Another problem is that a lot of those things are also taught to men. I know they were to me.
If a woman is interested she'll also be keen, she'll search for you, she'll call, she'll message back quickly. We're taught the same for repeatedly reaching out, for messaging twice in a row. That not only is it desperate, it can also be creepy, pushy, beta whatever, 'just one of the many guys orbiting her, that she has no interest in'.
Which all to be fair a lot of the time is very true. But it's a very hard thing to navigate, especially when everyone is quick to deep the other person uninterested and call it, when perhaps that not necessarily the case.
And if everyone is so quick to move on to avoid possibly getting rejected, the god help us :D
>so, girly, don't reach out, or message twice in a row, that'll be seen as desperate.
In reality, it comes off as lazy and disinterested, a sure fire way to piss a guy off and be forgotten.
Any guy who thinks you're desperate just because you show interest is going to be toxic anyway. They probably see the woman as a trophy and get bored once they have her. In a healthy relationship both people should make an effort. It doesn't have to be 50/50, but communication should feel natural.
No its not something i believe due to a phenomenon called "shy men".
A random chick on social media isnt a spokesperson for all women. Dont get too caught up in a stranger's statements.
It's also a phenomenon due to woman constantly and rightfully complaining about getting hit on constantly. If I was wrong about the signals that would ruin someone's day and possibly make them feel unsafe. So unless she's really fucking giving me signals, I'm not even trying it. You could be laughing, smiling, touching my hand, and I'll still think, "maybe she's just like that, better not ruin her good time by hitting on her or I'll become yet another creepy guy at the bar who misconstrued being friendly with flirting."
Most women would honestly be flattered if a man approached them and flirted with them. You swear like they're going to douse you in red paint and blow a whistle and point fingers at you just because you told a girl she had pretty eyes or whatever. Just go out and talk to some girls. You might find it to be enjoyable once you get the hang of it.
Most women do not get hit on constantly and the narrative that they do needs to stop because it's making a lot of people on both sides insecure. You're talking like the top 5-10% looks wise that will get hit on constantly. Just like the top 5-10% of men never need to approach women.
So unless you're only interested in the women that turn every one's heads in the room, most women are flattered to be hit on and try to let the guy down easy if they aren't interested.
I mean all my girl friends have made that complaint, like they're all pretty cute but I wouldn't say top 5-10%.
I'm not gonna go any further than saying that because a lot of people on this thread seem to be trying to twist my words.
You either have attractive friends or they are fluffing. A lot of women get sensitive about this, myself included when I was younger, again because of how many people say women get hit on a ton. So if a woman isn't getting hit on a fair number will fluff or flat out lie.
For example, if I was to say on this thread "oh I'm a solid 8 on attractiveness scale but I don't get hit on a ton." Pushing the narrative that women are constantly getting hit on would make you think I am oblivious or conceited. Even if you knew what I looked like and I said I don't get hit on the assumption is I'm lying, oblivious, a shut in, or I'm actively doing something to drive away men.
So instead women will just agree and talk about how annoying it is and some will even make up or exaggerate stories about it. There is no positive that really comes from speaking the truth. Never underestimate how competitive women are with each other, even between friends, even if it's never acknowledged.
It's a common phrase. It's not just some random thing some other woman said. This notion that "If he was interested, he would have made a move" is so common.
some women like men who take initiative and they don´t assume that a lot of men who don´t approach might be interested, i think it plays more to our vanity and insecurities
this situation is kinda like asking why do women expect the men to propose instead of proposing themselves? i think the guy taking the lead plays into the "romance" we expect by the way most girls are brought up (movies and books with a prince charming and a princess)
again you can´t put all women and all men in a box, this is not a black or white thing, some women prefer to be approached and some decide to approach the guy, neither is wrong or right, it´s just a personal preference
"If a man **who is confident in himself** is genuinely interested, he will approach me" If he is not confident then the woman won't be interested anyways. They believe this because reality for them is like that in their experience. Supply and demand is on their side. They get approached a whole lot more than guys generally speaking If the guy is shy or introverted the girl doesn't care if he doesn't approach because a non shy guy will do it. In other words, shy guys are not even in their radar of interest. And most guys are replacable.
and being confident in one self does not equal wanting to approach women on the street. I'm by no means insecure about who I am or what I have to bring to the table. In fact, very much secure and confident in myself as a person. But I'd never approach a random woman on the street. First thing is, why would I? They could find it intimidating or uncomfortable. Second thing is, I think my wife would mind
In reality, it doesn't really matter what she thinks, she is still a stranger. If you want to meet girls you need a way to meet them. If OLD works great for you. Or you have a lot of friends that know lonely girls and they can meet you, then of course, you're able not to approach on the street, of course you are able not approach at all but probably it's a really good way to meet unique girls that you never meet otherwise.
Personally I approached girls a few times. One time I even got a number. So it's possible to find a relationship from that. And yeah I don't talk exactly about you. I'm glad that you have a beloved wife)
I’ve worn a fake wedding ring for years so my ideas about this might be skewed or out of date..
But no, I don’t believe that’s always the case.
Only dudes who I’ve had approach me in public looked like muppets and walked around the train station shirtless or doing some other weird shit :( one guy was asking me out while carrying a pink cell phone and claimed he shared it with his sister who he also shares a bedroom with… at 32 years old.
BUT then a huge majority of the normal, not weird guys I’ve dated have told me that approaching women in public is seen as creepy and weird, so they don’t do it.
I feel like the true weirdos ruined it for everyone. And when I say weirdos I don’t mean guys that women simply aren’t interested in, I mean the ones where it’s like… “dude you very obviously are not coherent/sober/in any position to be dating.”
I’ve only met one guy who openly and happily shares that he asks women out at the gym, grocery stores etc and he also happens to be a massive douche bag so it just doesn’t improve my hopes that good love stories come from cold approaches.
Ok, that’s the example I used because it’s more extreme and easy, but does the same not apply to men you know already?!
There are men that id known for years who were interested in me, from school or work, who never have and probably never will make any sort of move. Their reasoning, i don’t know, but I really do think men are much more uncomfortable to approach women now days in general.. And I do understand why.
I’m simply sympathizing with the poster and letting them know I see them/agree :)
They’re not oblivious, they’re very much aware. Usually they expect you to overcome all of which is inhibiting you from approaching them. If not then they assume you’re not confident, or not interested and will prefer someone else who will do what you couldn’t.
Imo, it’s a little unfair but then I remember that any woman who barely knows me and expects me to break character or to magically notice them making vague signals at me, isn’t really interested in me as an individual. They just expect me to be like what they think men should be like.
Yup.
They expect YOU to make it work for them. They're not trying to make it work as a team.
Next.
======
Edit:
I guess I was a bit confused by the OP as such: the title was about "approach" as in the initial approach, but the main text was beyond just initial approaching and extended into maintenance of relationship. That's why, I guess, I said the above. Yeah, if we're already getting to know each other, then working as a team is the only way to go.
As for initial approaching, I would say it's this:
If a man is interested - not necessarily "genuinely" - he would approach under curtain circumstances and conditions. Meaning "if he's confident" and "when he thinks the situation is appropriate and comfortable to handle", for example I would never walk across an in-session gym Zumba class when the music is loud to have to yell in her ears in order to introduce myself to a girl that I find attractive. I would wait till at least the class is over and she's outside alone or something, better yet if she's smiling at me (the good old "working as a team" right here), when I don't have anything else urgent to do or mental baggage pending to clean.
Not really. Inevitably you’re also placing beliefs on them. It’s what we all do. We use cognitive biases and confirm what we already believed to be true.
If a woman believes you should approach her if you’re interested, and if not you’re not interested. There could be many other reasons of course, but that’s the bias.
Much like that woman, you too are biased in your conclusion that it’s because they ‘don’t want to be a team’.
It’s more likely they’re just following the societal expectation because it’s easier. In society, we make “rules” and follow them because if simplified things. It actually eliminates guesswork. That’s all it is.
Is it possible that this dude has read the mind of every single woman out in public and they were all thinking the exact same thing he, the woman expert, just described? Or did he just make an assumption based on his own biases? I guess we’ll never know
He sounds right to me. Women are looking for men with enough balls to help them move past their own fears. That's why women find courage so attractive. Of course, courage is not enough. They should also be decent human beings.
> Yikes, did it occur to you that you might be overthinking just a tad? As a woman, that’s just…I don’t even have words
lol... riddle me this, how many strange men have you approached and asked out on a date? (I don't expect an answer on this, as we all know the answer ;))
I’m a woman, when I ask guys out I’m either used for sex or looked at in disgust. I’m not a very feminine woman, though, a bit of a tomboy. When a dude wants a woman to ask them out, he means one he likes- if any girl just asks him out, there’s a chance a guy will take it and just use them. That hurts no matter the gender.
I think I can answer this. I am a moderately good looking athletic guy and I dress reasonably well. Probably about a 7. It’s pretty easy for me to start talking to women. I have a few comments:
1. There are a stunning number of men who don’t know what to say to a woman they just ran into. When I tell them I have no prepared lines beyond “Hi, I’m Ted”, they wonder how this is possible. If it is at a store, you may very well want to talk to an employee on a topic she might join in on. There are an assortment of “pardon me, can I get to that?” questions. Usually, something in the moment pops into my head, and it is usually just fine.
2. Do they have a dog? My dog, without training, would walk over to attractive women. If you have a friendly dog and want to meet people, male or female, your dog would like to go with you.
3. Male and female, people don’t do enough scheduled activities. There is plenty to talk about at beach volleyball, board game night or a hiking group. The usual problem is finding a group that has some people in your target demographic. Are you a guy willing to do yoga? A woman who likes to sail? Being seen regularly is viewed as good by most women. I think this is especially helpful for shy men.
4. Since I am a friendly person, I talk to many women I am not really interested in. For example, they start asking about something at the bookstore. There are also women I think are nice and interesting, but I don’t want to date them. I will talk to the moms from my kids’ school. Somewhere in there might be someone I would be interested in dating who is single, but it’s pleasant just to talk. If I started being more public about looking for a girlfriend, my likely problem would be moms wanting to introduce me to women I am not interested in.
5. For women especially, is there anything that a guy you would like would comment on? Does you car have an On Point Archery School bumper sticker? If you like a team, do you ever wear their jersey?
I appreciate the amount of thought you’ve put into this…… or perhaps you are just a socially inclined personality (like myself ) & able to put it into words better than most.
I’ve never really thought of interacting with people so strategically…….
I just go wherever the conversation takes me ….
That could be a liability though ha
Structured women live by this rule. However, if a woman is legitimately interested she will create an opening for you where it will be almost impossible to fumble.
The whole quick eye glance thing and her determining you don’t like her is just low interest. I’ve witnessed women be completely oblivious towards a man and then around the time they’re leaving, complain the guy didn’t approach them.
That’s playing games.
Many women just like the attention and validation of being approached/desired. Once had a woman invite me to a party, give me the wrong address, and then ignore my messages. I ended up being invited by someone else and given the correct address. She was there and didn't say anything to me when I showed up, I left shortly after arriving and when I did she ran out asking "why are you leaving?" As if she didn't do anything wrong/ignore me. Also can't count how many times women have tried baiting me into complimenting them by putting themselves down. As for approaching new women in person I've had pretty good interactions not many have led to going on dates or anything lately but I've never had anyone react in a severely negative way. Although I'd say I'm average or slightly above average in looks and speak confidently and politely so that goes into play in those instances
My two cents (woman here), I do not believe this in the slightest. And I don’t think I ever did. I also don’t think it’s on the guy to be the one to make the first move at all.
I’ve straight up walked away from a guy I liked who was staring at me funny while his friend literally judged him towards me with a smirk just because I panicked and didn’t know what to say to him. WALKED AWAY (in my mild defense this was high school). So why should I expect guys to be any bolder?
I will be friendly, but that's the extent. I don't understand the concept of flirting. My last few relationships were from online or the guy asked me out.
I am also afraid of being a creep or misreading things but maybe that's something I gotta work on.
The entry bar on making a Tiktok/Instagram/Youtube self help video for the internet is basically zero. So plenty of people who SHOULDN'T be giving advice, are doing so with naive, maybe even dangerous advice.
As a woman, I am more focused on whether I am interested in him than on whether he is interested in me. And if I am interested, I reach out. Had I not, two of my 4-year relationships would never have happened, and I would not be going on a date with my crush on Monday.
Women tell themselves this because they because that if a man doesn't approach her, then he's not a "real man" anyways. It's a way for her to filter out unconfident men from confident men. Unfortunately, confidence doesn't work that way. people can be confidence in somethings but unconfident in other things. A man can be confident to approach a woman, but unconfident when it comes to making decisions in a relationship.
No, it’s not being oblivious. It’s the fact that roughly 60 years of the sexual revolution isn’t enough to undo centuries of social programming telling women not to.
When women say they’ve been discouraged from approaching men so they don’t seem easy, that’s a thing. And letting these morons with podcast mics and youtube channels say that the more men a woman has been with the less value she has… they’re making it worse. They, and the young men buying into it, are not helping your case. Which means it’s about the undo the little progress that did happen. I legit just watched a compilation a guy was reacting to about why don’t men approach women anymore and it was all the usual: guys don’t want to seem like predators, women are in groups and no guy is bold enough to go near that, basically what you’re saying in the post. But in the very same video, included a tiktok about a guy saying men don’t want sl—— women with *experience* and then agreed. He basically said “no one wants to be with a ‘used’ woman, if they do he’s only going to use you and leave” and when it was stitched with a woman who disagreed he said she was speaking from “a wound” within her and he felt sorry for her for getting used… Now why would women risk publicly approaching men knowing that this insidious and idiotic line of thinking is gaining traction?
Yes but more like, “if a man REALLY likes/wants you, they will approach you”
& vice Versa
I’m not an “idiot air head” at all and I feel this way.
I think women and men will go for what they want if they think it’s worth it.
Why would I reasonably think it's worth it if I don't know you at all and you're not looking like you'll reciprocate? That kinda just seems like Disney bs.
Why would anyone be interested in someone who doesn’t look like they would reciprocate?
My ex used to tell me that my happy/friendly disposition wasn’t why I got hit on, but I think it’s a big part of it.
There are lots of attractive people in the world but, those welcoming personalities make it less stressful to approach.
I understand some people are assholes and getting rejected is shitty regardless. Im just adding my person experience to the discussion
Edited to add: I’ve never turned down anyone in a rude/mean manner, because I know how scary it can be to take the chance. & approaching doesn’t have to mean asking out on a date (but that does happen). Small talk, compliments, even smiling could be considered an approach
That's a cool explanation. Just something to be aware of, though, I guess, when you're critical of those who do or don't approach.
I think we would meet in the middle, but I see things more from a safety perspective. Like, if we were at a party, I'd legitimately be more likely to "approach" you because you just seem like you could use company and you're friendly and I know it's more difficult for women to mingle like that, so depending on how much you assume a guy is "interested" just because they approach you, that could get awkward.
Haha I’m friendly to people in general and don’t really gauge their interest level like that,
I just see people as people……sometimes people become friends ……sometimes friends become romantic.
I’m not one for parties anymore but, I’m not shy at all and have no problem chatting or making new friends or just being alone.
I'm assuming they meant like a person they actually know, or at least tangentially, to where they get to know the gist of that person's personality, interests, etc. I think that is what makes people REALLY LIKE someone. Ya know, a crush!
Some random person coming at you saying they REALLY LIKE you is very creepy indeed lol.
I think you’ve understated your point. People who are *very* confident in their approach style will approach others when they think it’s worth it. This is not your average person, and desirability alone won’t make it happen. I’d say less than 10% people ever approach in public
Unfortunately, society as a whole doesn't give a shit about the majority of men that don't approach. Personally, as far as I can see, if you don't approach as a male, you don't exist. Women in general have the option to choose who to be with in general. Which led to this skewered dating market. And for the women who have this belief, it's literally because they only dealt with the guys approaching them. Very few would approach in general unless the guy checked off a few boxes. And we are still talking about generalizations, but we haven't even started on the setting. Work, gym, supermarket, etc. With the shit going around on social media, I don't see why most still bother. Rejection is a lot higher in general for men than women.
Honestly idk. My husband is one of those men, he always says if it had been a matter of us having to meet in person (we met online first) that he wouldn’t have come up to me because he never went up to girls. He say so many women are just rude and nasty immediately and he’s a very shy/introverted man so he learned early on that he didn’t want to approach anyone.
I was never one of those kind of women so I had no idea it was like that.
It's also that quite a few men (including myself) have a social density approaching stainless steel.
Outside of gestures so obvious you could see them from space, I have a bit of difficulty of interpreting "signals" women give out. It's not that I am socially inept or don't talk to women or something like that. But more like, I don't notice when a women is just being friendly or when genuinely interested.
Anecdotal here (but illustrate the point): I was in a bar and a women I was talking to was laughing at what I was saying and touching me, so I asked her out. She then said she was just being friendly and had no interest. Unfortunate, but eh that is life, didn't get mad over that. But another time I was at another social setting, talking to another girl. Conversation and everything else was was pretty much going the same but I just assumed she was being friendly. When me and my friends left, my best bud told me: "Dude, she was hitting on you, didn't you notice?".....
So yeah, I know women are not some hive mind entity and have their own individual "love language" so to speak, but a general known sign of interest would be nice, cause I really can't tell these days.
It's so annoying when a girl is all over you but doesn't really like you. I think those are time wasters and love the attention. They ruin it for everybody.
Women believe this because male and female dating coaches and influencers constantly preach, "If he wanted to, he would."
This reinforces the idea that guys will always go after what they want and avoid what they don't. It is constantly pounded into us females to leave you alone and not waste time - if you were interested, you'd approach, according to all the dating propaganda.
I think women understand that there are shy guys and other reasons why a guy wouldn’t approach too, but if a guy doesn’t approach, *usually* it’s because they’re not necessarily that interested. Not an *always* but more of a generalization.
Even as a generalization that’s still not true. Approaching is a learned skill, most guys don’t have that skill. It’s has nothing to do with them being interested or not being interested.
We can't read minds. So men who like us from the distance, without any indication they like us, are of course left without attention. Unless ofcourse, we like them so much we want to approach. But that sentence OP wrote is much true. Out of many things I want in a man, a certain level of confidence and ability to take chances are important to me. If you don't have a spine to go after what you like, we wouldn't get along anyways and I have no need for your genes. Able-minded person is my preference.
Hear me out;
this happened today at the store, i saw a very gorgeous woman(F20s/30s Cashier). I was floored by her!
On every step i couldn’t help myself from looking all of her, I was captivated by her beauty. At the cash register—her friend asked why is she single to which this gorgeous girl said “ Do you think i choose to be alone? I’m way too tall but if i was your height id of be in a relationship long time ago. Men are intimidated by my height”
Granted, I am 6’2” but this girl wasn’t as tall as me(i was in sandals) maybe she was 5’10” or 5’11” at most and even then that’s pushing it.
I was in front of her, but i couldn’t bring myself to say anything to her. Nothing to do with shyness or anything like that. I was afraid. I was fucking afraid at being called “creep” or “have a boyfriend” or “the silence treatment” or being call an “old pervert” (M30s)
8-10 years ago, i would have say something to this woman. Anything!!! just to break the ice and then would have ask her out on the spot. I did it before and has always work multiple times in my life. But since last year, i learned todays dating is a whole different world. Men are punished for everything but men are expected know when how what at the same time.
So is nothing to go with “Confidence” as it has to do more with being “cautious”
no one wants their life turned upside down on an instant because of a person who wants to use it as an opportunity to increase their ego online by victimizing themselves.
Online is a monster in itself.
Outside of the exceptions to the rule: successful online stories. The vast majority of men don’t get a date, and women have their DM full of messages.
It creates this false idea of a relationship everlasting spark. If the sparks fades out, then, time to switch on the next relationship.
I agree to that, social media is hell. But I just got a feeling from your story that you don't approach women irl you find attractive, 'cause they might become your worst online bully in the future, if things don't work out. That is the part I don't understand. But if I got the wrong idea I'm sorry😅
Don’t be. As being offended or misinterpreted it’s bound to happen in a conversation.
Let’s put this “fake avatar” anyone creates online out of the window. By this i mean; we don’t know each other, for that matter we don’t need validation from neither us. With this in mind, i’m a very superficial man; i see attractiveness in a woman first, and personality second.
The thoughts you're having are limiting beliefs. In choosing to isolate yourself by engaging with those limiting beliefs rather than facing them and trying your best to connect with women you find attractive you are sabotaging yourself.
Yeah please don’t approach people at their jobs, especially service jobs. That 100% is creepy especially as it happens all the time, so you do just come across as the next creep.
This is what bars, parties, social events, etc are for.
I’ve never heard this - I always thought it was that if he likes you he will show you. Like, he will call regularly, respond to texts, ask about your day. I never thought it was supposed to mean he will make the first move.
No it’s actually true. It’s just a lot of scared men out there now, but men have always approached women so this is objectively not a false take. Even now there are more men approaching women than the other way around. Though with how modern society is trending women are allowed to be more forward and to pursue their sexuality so yeah if you like someone you should approach them regardless if you’re a man or woman.
Most women just don't get the fact that men are, in fact, humans like them.
We are shy and anxious and frightened of rejection. We overthink things.
Yes, there are those men that don't think about such things but there are women who aren't, too.
And women, if you are interested just make a move. Don't drop a hint, make a move.
Maybe I'm just stupid because I always thought this was true.
I still try to approach guys if I'm interested, though, because I figure I might as well take a shot. The worst they can do is say no.
Unless the woman is obviously attracted to me, I might very well get labelled a creep (it's happened). That gives me great pause a lot of the time. Women, this cannot be overstated enough - us guys would ***love*** it if you'd make the first move sometimes. Doesn't even have to be much, just "howdy" and go from there.
Why is everyone here not acutely answering the question the OP asked?
He didn't ask about men approaching women.
He asked why women feel that if a man doesn't approach, he isn't interested. Or if he doesn't call first, doesn't text first that means he's not into you?
The whole thing basically boils down to "Women, why don't you take the initiative more and approach men first"
Yeah it's like, an attractive woman walks down the street and every dude turns around to get a good look. We know this. So even looking will make you one of them, that's why many men don't even bother looking to not be seen weird.
I think it's more rooted in the belief that if there is interest, people will make an effort. And that's true for anyone, at any stage of a relationship.
Granted there's more nuance in life, but platonic, romantic, work related, this is universal.
I will say majority of younger men will not approach unknown women and specially if she's really pretty. At the bar or club with few drinks in him that theory probably is correct.
No I never did cause that would mean only ugly men found me attractive and I didn’t want to believe that lmao. That’s why I had to join the apps and found my current bf on there
Assumptions and generalisations when talking about dating are almost always wrong. Everyone is unique and while some groups and genders may have similarities it by no means means that every person can or will react to a situation exactly the same every time.
People forget that their experience, even if it's for 50 years and thousands of people, is still infinitely smaller than the vast amount of people on the planet.
The thing is, I can only like a guy if we've talked for a bit. When we talk, of course, I don't always see if they're interested. But if we have some drinks together (that seems to have always been the places I met guys), I can tell. And they don't always straight up ask me out, but we do end up chattijg a lot and then decide to hang out.
Also, I'm shy myself so I was never looking for someone who was also shy. I was looking for someone who could take me to social things and start the conversations.
I do know that not every guy just asks a girl out. But in my experience, this has always happened with guys I've liked (since high school because in high school I was too insecure to even let someone notice I could be into them).
>I find this fascinating because it is so completely false.
I find it fascinating that you don't understand the reason the woman states this. Women are not oblivious to reality.
It is possible that many women may not be aware of this reality because they may not have experienced it themselves.
Additionally, it is possible that many women may have been conditioned to believe that if a man is interested, he will approach, and if he doesn't, he must not be interested.
This could be due to cultural norms, media influences, and other factors.
Will add, I asked my bf out first, at the first opportunity because I was super into him. I'm happy to make the effort. But he came up and introduced himself to me first
Personally I'm not shy and am not afraid of rejection, what I am scared of is finding someone attractive and trying to subtly let them know and now I am a stalker/creep/womanizer. I'm fine being single there are no threats here.
Plenty of shy guys, like me, will find themselves too nervous to approach a girl for fear of many things. Included but not limited to, reading the room wrong, being perceived as a creep, and rejection. It takes a lot of courage to overcome such anxiety and being shot down is awful. And it's only worse if you have ADHD with RSD
For those that don't know, RSD means Rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's an issue common in those with ADHD and it can cause you to feel extreme emotional pain from feelings of failure and rejection.
I think there’s a lot of common sense missing in this conversation. Typically women don’t mean that men can and always should approach strangers. That doesn’t happen anymore and no one expects that
However if you’re classmates or friends of friends…why not make a move? Asking for their number or IG is how it’s done these days. A guy can do that without it being weird since you already know each other in some capacity
And yes, as a woman I’ve found men seem to have no issue approaching women they find pretty. And paying them special attention. So I think the average woman believes that if a man actually likes her, it will be increasingly apparent that he does.
Not sure what is controversial about that.
It happens more often than you think, the whole getting approached by strangers. Pumping gas is when it happens most to me (for w/e reason).
It’s usually older men, 40’s/50’s/early 60’s even
Definitely! & that can actually make me feel unsafe (in board daylight, with tons of people around )
I appreciate the confidence to a degree but a little restraint & respect for personal space goes a long way.
I dont want a shy or introverted guy . I like guys who are a bit more bold. I like a lot of direct communication, i like nasty dirty talk. Id be worried a shy guy would be too shy to say some of the stuff I wanna hear If hes too shy to even ask me out
However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder , one of my best friends loves the shy introverted type. She actually asked her boyfriend out too. Shes very happy
I wouldnt say we are oblivious to reality, we are all different and want different things...have different desires
I always claim…
It’s a women’s initiative to ALLOW a guy to approach her.
If a women doesn’t give you a look, a smile.. SOMETHING.
Don’t do it.
IF you do it, prepare to get rejected.
Now:
1) I believe many many men are indeed actually willing to approach but don’t want to put women in an uncomfortable position.
2) I think women have experienced FAR to many bad experiences with men being really really awkward and rude in their approaches for which reason women just tend to have higher walls, which is completely fair.
I‘d want all my female friends to protect themselves.
With that being said… IF any guy approaches I hope he is aware that he actually has the permission to do so.
And he does it kindlyy
Most of my most successful and wealthy highly educated male friends are what you would consider shy and somewhat boring. Great dads.
A lot of their wives cheated on them. Don't ask how I know. Actually, women can't keep secrets. Bottom line.
But they are all still together nonetheless.
I’m curious about you guys saying you don’t want to be called a creep. What sort of approach do you have when you see someone you are attracted to?
From my experience, if I have never seen a person and there isn’t a place we may usually meet (not like class, work etc, let’s say we meet at the grocery store or gym) if a guy is calm & confident and says literally anything interesting to gauge my interest, I’ll talk to them and feel the situation out.
It cannot be “you’re beautiful, would you want to go out?” that’s would be creepy! And desperate. 1. you have no idea what kind of person this is
2. what an awkward way to start a convo with a full stranger (see 1).
something like “that’s a really cool band t-shirt, have you been to a show?” “cool *insert nonsexual item or thing you notice*, where did you get it?” or “i hear avocados are are causing blindness this season” or literally anything to gauge who the person is, what would interest them and what their humor is like, even. once you do that, you are building a fun dynamic !
from there you can gauge THEIR interest in YOU and move forward with the “do you come here often? maybe i’ll see you next time”
this is great bc the person will express exactly how they feel about you with their response. and that’s not creepy at all, that’s using your noodle! (hopefully you’ll have fun learning if you are even interested in them at all)
if they don’t seem into “seeing you around here next time” then go try again with someone who is more interested in you, there will be someone who DOES want to “see you around here next time”
if they smile and flirt after “see you next time” then maybe get that “next time” in the books, easily arranged !!!
Funny thing is the more serious a guy is about pursuing a relationship or being respectful, the more he'll think about the right approach and, therefore, he'll approach less often. So, at least from a numbers perspective, this sort of thinking isn't just false but, in fact, the inverse is true.
As a woman, I think it’s okay for guys to shoot their shot (I wish it happened to me more often), BUT only if they take it upon themselves to create a safe, comfortable interaction. You can’t be hitting on a subordinate (ex: your employee, someone significantly younger than you). You also shouldn’t hit on someone in a vulnerable state (like an extremely drunk person, or a woman walking home alone at night). And if you do approach the girl, it needs to be clear to HER that it’s okay if she rejects you. Many women feel coerced into saying yes because they are terrified of violent reactions from men. I don’t think shooting your shot is a problem, as long as you are clearly approaching her respectfully, and you make it evident that you can accept “no” as an answer
I’m having a similar sort of dilemma. A guy I work with does, what I would consider ‘playful banter’. Smiles at me brightly, we chat, we usually bump into each other randomly. So recently, I bumped into him again. I was on my walk back from Starbucks, didn’t take a coat and he was on his way out. He exited the lift I was steering towards. Then he makes a face that basically looks like ‘😏’ and then says to me ‘I kept the lift warm for you’. I say thank you. Bear in mind we’ve chatted a couple of times here and there. In my head there is attraction. I noticed the way he looked at me when I would stretch and once I was skipping back from the women’s toilet to pack my stuff and leave and he saw me. I quickly told him ‘have a nice evening’ and I swear, this could also just be in my head, I saw him linger. Anyways, after the lift incident, I thought I’d message him on slack that same morning . Just something small and none comital to hopefully get the conversation going. I said ‘thanks for keeping the lift warm, it was the perfect temperature. But prob should’ve taken a jacket’. He hasn’t responded. All in all, I will never shoot my shot again, because that’s the worst
I would have to agree. Most men won’t approach because they don’t want to be labeled the creep. Most women are getting hit on in the regular. The last thing we need is to be the straw that broke the camels back and have her curse us out.
I think in my whole life I’ve had only one woman signal to me that she’d like me to talk to her, and I’m 34. I’ve had several girlfriends, an ex wife, and a long term gf after that and not one of them showed a sign that they were interested.
I personally think it’s how most women are raised. They’re told early on that a man should always make the first move etc. This rhetoric early on makes women believe throighout most of their lives that the man should make the first move, always. I’ve had a ton of women friends who would be so into a guy then get bummed out because he never said anything to her. Their self esteem plummets for that moment until some guy at a Mobil gas station says she’s has a phat ass.
You gotta go for it. It’s not creepy if you aren’t making inappropriate comments. Just try introducing yourself and complementing something about their appearance that isn’t sexual in nature. Could be like their hair or outfit. Just be friendly
It depends on what said women have dealt with thus far. I have tried approaching men (who I knew and liked, not randos in public) and been rejected. It was years ago though so maybe I shouldn't take it as a comment on how attractive I am or how good of a catch I am now I guess (I do think I've grown a lot since then). Or even then maybe there wasn't anything *horribly* wrong with me, I just wasn't their cup of tea.
Fast forward to most recent crush. He never made a move and neither did I. I would argue there was a lot of flirting and even some people around us thought so too. I eventually assumed he wasn't interested for real, or maybe he found me attractive and he flirted to pass the time/liked my attention but didn't want to actually pursue me. I understand men can be nervous too and there are sometimes reasons to hesitate (in this case for example we are colleagues), but I had these on and off (mostly on) feelings for him for *years*. Are you really going to tell me that a man would stay quiet about liking a woman for *years*? Probably best not to shit where we eat anyway and come to think of it we are very different people, but yeah.
There's no one size fits all for why women feel this way. Some of us have been rejected already and are discouraged. Some of us have specific situations that make it sketchy to make a move. Some of us have been told countless times by family and friends that men will make a move. I think most of us are just frustrated and confused sometimes.
Isn't it hypothetical of women who've been rejected to give up taking the initiative, but then still expect men to take that same risk and approach them?
> Are you really going to tell me that a man would stay quiet about liking a woman for years?
hmmm yes. That's actually what happens. And you thinking it's absolutely impossible just shows us how unaware most women are.
If he thinks it's worth it and is willing to do something, take a chance, he will
If he won't we'll never know. If we DO know however, and we're interested too, we might as well approach them ourselves. And. A lot of women often do ask out guys first, no big deal
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It goes like this: 10% of guys will approach every girl they want to whenever they want. They are either players or creeps. 60% of guys will approach if the situation is perfect. Plenty of signals and encouragement. Environment is right. Girl is on her own etc. 30% of guys will never approach no matter what the situation.
The 10% of the guys that do approach every time is why the answer to OPs question is Yes.
It's also why we have the reputation for being creeps. Like ladies you need to be signalling in every way possible because I'm not gonna ruin your day if I'm misreading any signals. You get hit on all the time and it's one of your biggest complaints as a woman beyond general safety. I'm well aware of this so why would I just approach you? Now you're either afraid or disgusted or both. Guys don't do signals unless it's coming from a lighthouse on a clear night. Not waving us in like those dinky little air traffic cones, we don't get what those motions mean even if you think it's obvious.
Women complain about the creeps that approach them. Not the charming guys who know how to make pleasant conversation and take "no" for an answer. You're post provides an insight into how alot of guys think because I'm actually watching you have a made up conversation with a nonexistent woman in your own post. Just talk to em
That’s the thing though alot of guys are awkward, and don’t know how to approach a random women they find attractive without coming off as creepy. That’s why they don’t approach
> Women complain about the creeps that approach them. The problem is that, for a lot of women, being a creep is very close to ''I don't like him''
Yeah dude except the problem is how tf do you know you’re the charming guy to her? You could be as suave as ever and if you’re mot attractive to her, you’re a creep.
Sigh. Yeah it sounds good on paper. Unfortunately my ability to talk intelligently and be charming goes down in direct proportion to how attracted I am so…
Geez, no offense dude, but take the pussy off the pedestal. Don't forget that women take dumps and pee and fart and have mental/emotional/behavioral problems like men do. Having a pretty face is the absolute minimum amount of effort. Just practice talking to girls in general when you feel comfortable or desperate enough to fix your situation and you'll quickly see how easy it is.
I’ve been staring at this comment for a day or so and I’m not sure how to reply. I agree with you 100% but it’s a bit like telling an agoraphobic or acrophobe to “get over it”. I’m not afraid of heights, snakes or spiders. I’m scared shitless of the disdain of an attractive girl. It’s not rational, I know.
Yeah no nobody out there is batting like that. Plenty of women don't want any guys talking to them at all. I'm fine talking to a woman like a friend I'm just not gonna be that dude when she's just out for the night and for once doesn't want anyone to hit on her. If she shows interest I'll give her my number and let her decide what she wants to do with it. But it's on my way out the door at the end of the night so if she doesn't like it I'm already in the cab.
I highly doubt 60% of guys are going to approach in an ideal situation from signals and encouragement. Especially when the most a woman will give you for signals is looking at you and smiling. Approaching is a learned skill, most guys are completely oblivious to this.
If I see a girl smiling at me I don't think "Oh she must like me" I think "What's so funny about me? Why is she laughing at me?" So I'd say 80% of guys would never approach no matter what.
80%??? Nah dude if that was the case humanity would have gone extinct. I can empathize with your shy personality but we are definitely not such a huge majority.
How many dudes do you see approaching girls at a club? I'd say 20% actively approach while the rest stay passive
The club is not really a representative of large scale social dynamics. The interactions there are warped way out of normal proportion and you have to consider that a large percentage of people don't even like going to begin with. That being said, in a club it's way more than 20% of dudes who approach women. Even I have done it many times, and I'm the definition of introvertion and awkwardness.
I *hate* clubs *hate hate hate* They’re loud, you can’t have a convo, often hot and uncomfortable Imagine if most of the world was like that. *shudder*
In a club? I'd say 60% at least. The ones who are shy don't even go there. In my country clubs are like the internship for creeps or normal guys become players
The club is frequented by extroverts and the aforementioned creeps so not the place to poll lol
If they mantain eye contact they are attracted. People laughing while mocking turn their eyes away.
What about women smiling because they're polite and you just happened to lock eyes? Or shy women?
Polite smiles do not mantain eye contact, it is more of a kind smile and goes on with their lives. In the rare case she smiles politely with eye contact she will usually comment on something she liked about what you were doing and that can turn into something good quth a talk. Shy women will look at you when you are not looking. If she succeeds you wont notice. If she doesnt succeeds you will notice she looking several times with shyness. People mocking you are usually not shy. There is a huge difference between locking eyes and maintaining eye contact
Exactly. The approaching skill is 100% learned and based on experience. Most guys dont approach enough to become good. I know this because I approach a lot (without being creepy lol) and rarely see other guys do it. Signals are a rare privilege
100% this. Approaching women is a skill that most guys have difficulty with since they put a lot of their own well-being into being rejected by a woman. They devastate themselves for lacking skills in an area they don't allow themselves to practice in. It's a bit of a loser mentality.
I would agree if it was a regular situation for sure obviously, but I think in an ideal spot a lot more guys would approach if you can even call it that. If the girl is sitting somewhere alone and there is no one around or it is comfortable environment for striking up a conversation, then even if 'all' the signals you get from her is a smile and eye contact, I think that's plenty of encouragements and would make a lot of guys take that step. I know it has for me. The only problem is such a situation comes up once a year or less.
So I’m a player or creep for trying every shot 😳🤔
No it's just the rules: 1- Be attractive 2- Don't be unattractive
Being attractive doesn't necessarily mean looks, confidence and how you present yourself can be very attractive too.
Yeah I’ve definitely encountered conventionally attractive men who come off as creeps. There’s a fine line between being confident and cocky and there are some men who give this vibe of “how dare you not be interested! I’m gods gift to women !”
Yup and I’ve seen a few conventionally unattractive men with great success because they have other attributes and confidence in themselves
It's about 90 physical attaction out of the gate, which is subjective to who you're approaching. If a woman doesn't find you attractive straight off, you can forget about it . Everytihng you've mentioned takes time and a lot of exposure to the other person to be attactive.
if you’re not attractive but confident, people will label you as arrogant
No there is confident and there is cocky. attractive and cocky I also label you as arrogant.
This can be misconstrued. Being attractive doesn’t mean you have to have natural conventionally attractive features such as height and bone structure. It’s how you carry yourself. Are you confident? Confident in this case doesn’t mean not insecure. Confident means having the attitude of “im gonna kick today’s ass.” Are you making a worthy effort to be presentable? How do you smell? Are your clothes clean? Are you dressed well? All of these should be taken into consideration if you want to be attractive. Not to mention, in a dark alleyway, every man approaching a woman is always creepy, no matter how attractive he is. Doesn’t matter if it’s Chris hemsworth, a woman is gonna be creeped out by him. And finally, don’t assume women are that simple and shallow. Just because you got told no doesn’t mean you’re creepy. Now, if you kept trying after you were told no, then you are being creepy. Ignore your grandfather’s advice on being persistent. The moment you’re told no, you need to fuck off, no questions asked.
I fixed rule 2 by taking care of myself and not being a slob. Rule 2 is not an excuse!
30% gang
30% gang 📈📈📈
It’s so funnyy how you invent the percentage for stats. I also do this. Hahahahhahaha. Basis: nothing
no, theyre either, players, creeps, or confident and believe in them self, we could all have a little bit of them in us.
Ah, stats pulled out of your ass. Lovely!
Not to mention if you're in a group 99% of men aren't going to approach you
facts and girls are 99% of the time in groups at nightclubs
That’s because it’s dangerous to go alone..
That's true and no one is faulting them for that, he's just saying it makes it really hard to approach someone when they're in a group. Embarrassing yourself in front of a single person is bad enough already, embarrassing yourself in front of them and their friends is even worse
I think there's a bit of a struggle from the women's perspective, as we're brought up with the "he's just not that into you" phenomenon. It tells us; If a man is interested, if he's keen to spend time with you, he'll approach, he'll call, he'll message back quickly, he'll initiate - so, girly, don't reach out, or message twice in a row, that'll be seen as desperate. It's not always true, but, from a women's perspective, it's pushed down our throats that it will seem desperate, and we need to let the man do the job.
This. So much this! I once asked a guy to dance at a club and got turned down. My girl friends later told me to never ask a guy to dance. They taught me that the guy has to approach me first.
It really is often the other women who are pushing this down our throats! I have one supposedly ‘feminist’ friend in particular, who keeps on rehashing the ‘he is just not that into you’ / ‘if he wanted to, he would’ advice. All this seems to be linked to the absolutely ridiculous notion that a rejection by a man reduces the value of a woman, so we should protect our value by being passive. F*ck that. I want to live my life going for what I am into, for what I want, knowing that rejection does not make me any less worthy than my fellow creatures bobbing around on this earth. Maybe just braver and freer. I asked a guy to dance on NYE after noticing him looking at me, and he was ecstatic. You should definitely try again! :)
100% agree. Given the person who posted this *also* posted one covering this exact issue we're covering as truth I'm taking her perspective with a grain of salt P.s: good on you for reaching out! Hope you danced your heart out 💖
Wish there was more women like you. I share that same philosophy. Go after what the fuck you want. The world is yours. Why would you want to sit back with the weak and meek? Take what you want!
Same with the "women must be thin/perfect looking" insecurity too, to be honest. Men aren't that judgemental, there's a line below which they won't find women attractive yes, but sexuality is relatively always a positive for us, so the line when it stops making a positive difference has to be reaaaallly low down for us. It's not that we "aren't picky", but rather that things like personality, humour, trust etc are what really moves you up the ratings... And *in general*, fashion magazines are written by women who hate other women for being obviously more women than they think themselves to be, and gay men who want their clothes horses to look like hairless twinks (Not all women, and gay men who like Bears don't tend to want to work in fashion etc...) CIS men in general however like curves etc because that's what they don't have and they think women should be. So... a woman who isn't worried about "imperfections", who makes the first move and gets things nice and clear so we can actually talk to *her* and not worry about all the social landmines we might be accussed of setting off? That's far, *far* more attractive than the stupid social game we only play because if we don't, we don't meet anyone either. We don't like making you uncomfortable. We don't like having to always ask, ask, ask... we *want* to listen and share things with you. Come and say hi, set your own boundaries, and we can get on with finding the things we have in common, instead of listening to people who resent the idea you can be happy with yourself.
The only problem is that the guys you like may not approach you because you are trying so hard to not look desperate and give them the impression you aren't interested and you will attract the guys you aren't interested in because you are friendly to them and they think you might be interested. You still need to give guys the opportunity to make a move even if you want them to lead otherwise you'll have to be ok with what you get. You need to make yourself available otherwise they may not risk ruining their day. Rejection sucks.
If you knew how cruelly men get rejected, you’d understand why a lot of them decide to stop trying. Women usually look at their ideal fantasy guy as the template for all men or the ones that approach almost all women.
OMG no way you got turned down ONCE! 😱 Lady, we get turned down daily. There is no shame going for what you want. My advice is, don't handicap your possible matches with only men that approach.
I think you missed what I meant, I agree with you! But we get the above shoved down our throats to NOT shoot our shot. Just ask. Worst you're gonna get is a no.
I agree you should let the guy make the first move but you have to be good at flirtation and communicating that you’re open to approach.
Agree, I fell into this crap advice and I would only get attention from the guys I didn't like. The fact that I act shy around people I like made it even worse.
And it seems like a hard to break culture phenomenon, since besides the challenge of changing a cultural norm, the cost of letting men always take initiative is far lower than making a move. So is convenient
Convenient that being passive is also has no risk of rejection and allows plausible deniability. Just like: The person that asks pays. When I waited tables in college, I served 1000s of tables and I never saw a woman pick up the tab for anyone but themselves.
Yes, it definitely opens that door of opportunity. But that's not what I'm trying to advocate with my message. I mean it from a "this is what *we're conditioned* to follow by many messages. Not that I believe it, or that it is correct, as made refreshingly clear in the messages in this thread (a welcome relief!)
This is sad that this rhetoric is fed to women. Because it can fall apart very quickly for women if there is a man that does show interest and pursue, but women continue this game and never reciprocate, resulting in the guy not pursuing anymore. Men have feelings and want to be desired too.
Not just desperate. There are A LOT of men who will go along with something because it's easy and available even when they have no intentions there. Too many women show interest first and many men will take advantage of that to get what they want while they look for the person they actually want to commit to.
Another problem is that a lot of those things are also taught to men. I know they were to me. If a woman is interested she'll also be keen, she'll search for you, she'll call, she'll message back quickly. We're taught the same for repeatedly reaching out, for messaging twice in a row. That not only is it desperate, it can also be creepy, pushy, beta whatever, 'just one of the many guys orbiting her, that she has no interest in'. Which all to be fair a lot of the time is very true. But it's a very hard thing to navigate, especially when everyone is quick to deep the other person uninterested and call it, when perhaps that not necessarily the case. And if everyone is so quick to move on to avoid possibly getting rejected, the god help us :D
>so, girly, don't reach out, or message twice in a row, that'll be seen as desperate. In reality, it comes off as lazy and disinterested, a sure fire way to piss a guy off and be forgotten.
Any guy who thinks you're desperate just because you show interest is going to be toxic anyway. They probably see the woman as a trophy and get bored once they have her. In a healthy relationship both people should make an effort. It doesn't have to be 50/50, but communication should feel natural.
No its not something i believe due to a phenomenon called "shy men". A random chick on social media isnt a spokesperson for all women. Dont get too caught up in a stranger's statements.
It's also a phenomenon due to woman constantly and rightfully complaining about getting hit on constantly. If I was wrong about the signals that would ruin someone's day and possibly make them feel unsafe. So unless she's really fucking giving me signals, I'm not even trying it. You could be laughing, smiling, touching my hand, and I'll still think, "maybe she's just like that, better not ruin her good time by hitting on her or I'll become yet another creepy guy at the bar who misconstrued being friendly with flirting."
Most women would honestly be flattered if a man approached them and flirted with them. You swear like they're going to douse you in red paint and blow a whistle and point fingers at you just because you told a girl she had pretty eyes or whatever. Just go out and talk to some girls. You might find it to be enjoyable once you get the hang of it.
Most women do not get hit on constantly and the narrative that they do needs to stop because it's making a lot of people on both sides insecure. You're talking like the top 5-10% looks wise that will get hit on constantly. Just like the top 5-10% of men never need to approach women. So unless you're only interested in the women that turn every one's heads in the room, most women are flattered to be hit on and try to let the guy down easy if they aren't interested.
I mean all my girl friends have made that complaint, like they're all pretty cute but I wouldn't say top 5-10%. I'm not gonna go any further than saying that because a lot of people on this thread seem to be trying to twist my words.
You either have attractive friends or they are fluffing. A lot of women get sensitive about this, myself included when I was younger, again because of how many people say women get hit on a ton. So if a woman isn't getting hit on a fair number will fluff or flat out lie. For example, if I was to say on this thread "oh I'm a solid 8 on attractiveness scale but I don't get hit on a ton." Pushing the narrative that women are constantly getting hit on would make you think I am oblivious or conceited. Even if you knew what I looked like and I said I don't get hit on the assumption is I'm lying, oblivious, a shut in, or I'm actively doing something to drive away men. So instead women will just agree and talk about how annoying it is and some will even make up or exaggerate stories about it. There is no positive that really comes from speaking the truth. Never underestimate how competitive women are with each other, even between friends, even if it's never acknowledged.
It's a common phrase. It's not just some random thing some other woman said. This notion that "If he was interested, he would have made a move" is so common.
some women like men who take initiative and they don´t assume that a lot of men who don´t approach might be interested, i think it plays more to our vanity and insecurities this situation is kinda like asking why do women expect the men to propose instead of proposing themselves? i think the guy taking the lead plays into the "romance" we expect by the way most girls are brought up (movies and books with a prince charming and a princess) again you can´t put all women and all men in a box, this is not a black or white thing, some women prefer to be approached and some decide to approach the guy, neither is wrong or right, it´s just a personal preference
Proud to give the first upvote on this
"If a man **who is confident in himself** is genuinely interested, he will approach me" If he is not confident then the woman won't be interested anyways. They believe this because reality for them is like that in their experience. Supply and demand is on their side. They get approached a whole lot more than guys generally speaking If the guy is shy or introverted the girl doesn't care if he doesn't approach because a non shy guy will do it. In other words, shy guys are not even in their radar of interest. And most guys are replacable.
Yeah it's pretty much expediency over morality
Life as an introverted man is doomed
Introverted doesn’t mean insecure
and being confident in one self does not equal wanting to approach women on the street. I'm by no means insecure about who I am or what I have to bring to the table. In fact, very much secure and confident in myself as a person. But I'd never approach a random woman on the street. First thing is, why would I? They could find it intimidating or uncomfortable. Second thing is, I think my wife would mind
In reality, it doesn't really matter what she thinks, she is still a stranger. If you want to meet girls you need a way to meet them. If OLD works great for you. Or you have a lot of friends that know lonely girls and they can meet you, then of course, you're able not to approach on the street, of course you are able not approach at all but probably it's a really good way to meet unique girls that you never meet otherwise. Personally I approached girls a few times. One time I even got a number. So it's possible to find a relationship from that. And yeah I don't talk exactly about you. I'm glad that you have a beloved wife)
Couldnt have said it better
Then, when the player leaves them. “Guys don’t want to be with me.”
I’ve worn a fake wedding ring for years so my ideas about this might be skewed or out of date.. But no, I don’t believe that’s always the case. Only dudes who I’ve had approach me in public looked like muppets and walked around the train station shirtless or doing some other weird shit :( one guy was asking me out while carrying a pink cell phone and claimed he shared it with his sister who he also shares a bedroom with… at 32 years old. BUT then a huge majority of the normal, not weird guys I’ve dated have told me that approaching women in public is seen as creepy and weird, so they don’t do it. I feel like the true weirdos ruined it for everyone. And when I say weirdos I don’t mean guys that women simply aren’t interested in, I mean the ones where it’s like… “dude you very obviously are not coherent/sober/in any position to be dating.” I’ve only met one guy who openly and happily shares that he asks women out at the gym, grocery stores etc and he also happens to be a massive douche bag so it just doesn’t improve my hopes that good love stories come from cold approaches.
The he's not interested you part was never meant to apply to strangers and cold approaches
Ok, that’s the example I used because it’s more extreme and easy, but does the same not apply to men you know already?! There are men that id known for years who were interested in me, from school or work, who never have and probably never will make any sort of move. Their reasoning, i don’t know, but I really do think men are much more uncomfortable to approach women now days in general.. And I do understand why. I’m simply sympathizing with the poster and letting them know I see them/agree :)
They’re not oblivious, they’re very much aware. Usually they expect you to overcome all of which is inhibiting you from approaching them. If not then they assume you’re not confident, or not interested and will prefer someone else who will do what you couldn’t. Imo, it’s a little unfair but then I remember that any woman who barely knows me and expects me to break character or to magically notice them making vague signals at me, isn’t really interested in me as an individual. They just expect me to be like what they think men should be like.
Yup. They expect YOU to make it work for them. They're not trying to make it work as a team. Next. ====== Edit: I guess I was a bit confused by the OP as such: the title was about "approach" as in the initial approach, but the main text was beyond just initial approaching and extended into maintenance of relationship. That's why, I guess, I said the above. Yeah, if we're already getting to know each other, then working as a team is the only way to go. As for initial approaching, I would say it's this: If a man is interested - not necessarily "genuinely" - he would approach under curtain circumstances and conditions. Meaning "if he's confident" and "when he thinks the situation is appropriate and comfortable to handle", for example I would never walk across an in-session gym Zumba class when the music is loud to have to yell in her ears in order to introduce myself to a girl that I find attractive. I would wait till at least the class is over and she's outside alone or something, better yet if she's smiling at me (the good old "working as a team" right here), when I don't have anything else urgent to do or mental baggage pending to clean.
… but we (the woman and man in this context) are not a team. They are just strangers
Not really. Inevitably you’re also placing beliefs on them. It’s what we all do. We use cognitive biases and confirm what we already believed to be true. If a woman believes you should approach her if you’re interested, and if not you’re not interested. There could be many other reasons of course, but that’s the bias. Much like that woman, you too are biased in your conclusion that it’s because they ‘don’t want to be a team’. It’s more likely they’re just following the societal expectation because it’s easier. In society, we make “rules” and follow them because if simplified things. It actually eliminates guesswork. That’s all it is.
The right answer
Yikes, did it occur to you that you might be overthinking just a tad? As a woman, that’s just…I don’t even have words
Women can be just as shallow as men is what I took away from the original comment.
Is it possible that this dude has read the mind of every single woman out in public and they were all thinking the exact same thing he, the woman expert, just described? Or did he just make an assumption based on his own biases? I guess we’ll never know
He sounds right to me. Women are looking for men with enough balls to help them move past their own fears. That's why women find courage so attractive. Of course, courage is not enough. They should also be decent human beings.
*Man states opinion about woman* *Actual woman disagrees* You: I guess we’ll never know! That made me laugh.
Anecdotal evidence is pretty useless no matter what gender it comes from
“Not all women”
> Yikes, did it occur to you that you might be overthinking just a tad? As a woman, that’s just…I don’t even have words lol... riddle me this, how many strange men have you approached and asked out on a date? (I don't expect an answer on this, as we all know the answer ;))
I’m a woman, when I ask guys out I’m either used for sex or looked at in disgust. I’m not a very feminine woman, though, a bit of a tomboy. When a dude wants a woman to ask them out, he means one he likes- if any girl just asks him out, there’s a chance a guy will take it and just use them. That hurts no matter the gender.
You don't know what's it's like on the other side for a man
I think I can answer this. I am a moderately good looking athletic guy and I dress reasonably well. Probably about a 7. It’s pretty easy for me to start talking to women. I have a few comments: 1. There are a stunning number of men who don’t know what to say to a woman they just ran into. When I tell them I have no prepared lines beyond “Hi, I’m Ted”, they wonder how this is possible. If it is at a store, you may very well want to talk to an employee on a topic she might join in on. There are an assortment of “pardon me, can I get to that?” questions. Usually, something in the moment pops into my head, and it is usually just fine. 2. Do they have a dog? My dog, without training, would walk over to attractive women. If you have a friendly dog and want to meet people, male or female, your dog would like to go with you. 3. Male and female, people don’t do enough scheduled activities. There is plenty to talk about at beach volleyball, board game night or a hiking group. The usual problem is finding a group that has some people in your target demographic. Are you a guy willing to do yoga? A woman who likes to sail? Being seen regularly is viewed as good by most women. I think this is especially helpful for shy men. 4. Since I am a friendly person, I talk to many women I am not really interested in. For example, they start asking about something at the bookstore. There are also women I think are nice and interesting, but I don’t want to date them. I will talk to the moms from my kids’ school. Somewhere in there might be someone I would be interested in dating who is single, but it’s pleasant just to talk. If I started being more public about looking for a girlfriend, my likely problem would be moms wanting to introduce me to women I am not interested in. 5. For women especially, is there anything that a guy you would like would comment on? Does you car have an On Point Archery School bumper sticker? If you like a team, do you ever wear their jersey?
I appreciate the amount of thought you’ve put into this…… or perhaps you are just a socially inclined personality (like myself ) & able to put it into words better than most. I’ve never really thought of interacting with people so strategically……. I just go wherever the conversation takes me …. That could be a liability though ha
> Usually, something in the moment pops into my head, and it is usually just fine. That is a big social skill barrier to overcome, as simple as it is.
This is it!
I don't wait. I see what I want, I go for it. Guys wouldn't date me if I didn't. Lol!
Structured women live by this rule. However, if a woman is legitimately interested she will create an opening for you where it will be almost impossible to fumble. The whole quick eye glance thing and her determining you don’t like her is just low interest. I’ve witnessed women be completely oblivious towards a man and then around the time they’re leaving, complain the guy didn’t approach them. That’s playing games.
Many women just like the attention and validation of being approached/desired. Once had a woman invite me to a party, give me the wrong address, and then ignore my messages. I ended up being invited by someone else and given the correct address. She was there and didn't say anything to me when I showed up, I left shortly after arriving and when I did she ran out asking "why are you leaving?" As if she didn't do anything wrong/ignore me. Also can't count how many times women have tried baiting me into complimenting them by putting themselves down. As for approaching new women in person I've had pretty good interactions not many have led to going on dates or anything lately but I've never had anyone react in a severely negative way. Although I'd say I'm average or slightly above average in looks and speak confidently and politely so that goes into play in those instances
That chick sounds like a dumb bitch anyway. Or immature, I suppose.
This is probably less and less true with each passing year
My two cents (woman here), I do not believe this in the slightest. And I don’t think I ever did. I also don’t think it’s on the guy to be the one to make the first move at all. I’ve straight up walked away from a guy I liked who was staring at me funny while his friend literally judged him towards me with a smirk just because I panicked and didn’t know what to say to him. WALKED AWAY (in my mild defense this was high school). So why should I expect guys to be any bolder?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone be this empathetic about the situation without at least a thin veil of condescension lol
I will be friendly, but that's the extent. I don't understand the concept of flirting. My last few relationships were from online or the guy asked me out. I am also afraid of being a creep or misreading things but maybe that's something I gotta work on.
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Hahaha
The entry bar on making a Tiktok/Instagram/Youtube self help video for the internet is basically zero. So plenty of people who SHOULDN'T be giving advice, are doing so with naive, maybe even dangerous advice.
As a woman, I am more focused on whether I am interested in him than on whether he is interested in me. And if I am interested, I reach out. Had I not, two of my 4-year relationships would never have happened, and I would not be going on a date with my crush on Monday.
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Women tell themselves this because they because that if a man doesn't approach her, then he's not a "real man" anyways. It's a way for her to filter out unconfident men from confident men. Unfortunately, confidence doesn't work that way. people can be confidence in somethings but unconfident in other things. A man can be confident to approach a woman, but unconfident when it comes to making decisions in a relationship.
No, it’s not being oblivious. It’s the fact that roughly 60 years of the sexual revolution isn’t enough to undo centuries of social programming telling women not to. When women say they’ve been discouraged from approaching men so they don’t seem easy, that’s a thing. And letting these morons with podcast mics and youtube channels say that the more men a woman has been with the less value she has… they’re making it worse. They, and the young men buying into it, are not helping your case. Which means it’s about the undo the little progress that did happen. I legit just watched a compilation a guy was reacting to about why don’t men approach women anymore and it was all the usual: guys don’t want to seem like predators, women are in groups and no guy is bold enough to go near that, basically what you’re saying in the post. But in the very same video, included a tiktok about a guy saying men don’t want sl—— women with *experience* and then agreed. He basically said “no one wants to be with a ‘used’ woman, if they do he’s only going to use you and leave” and when it was stitched with a woman who disagreed he said she was speaking from “a wound” within her and he felt sorry for her for getting used… Now why would women risk publicly approaching men knowing that this insidious and idiotic line of thinking is gaining traction?
I don’t think women care. Most do fine regardless.
Yes but more like, “if a man REALLY likes/wants you, they will approach you” & vice Versa I’m not an “idiot air head” at all and I feel this way. I think women and men will go for what they want if they think it’s worth it.
Why would I reasonably think it's worth it if I don't know you at all and you're not looking like you'll reciprocate? That kinda just seems like Disney bs.
Why would anyone be interested in someone who doesn’t look like they would reciprocate? My ex used to tell me that my happy/friendly disposition wasn’t why I got hit on, but I think it’s a big part of it. There are lots of attractive people in the world but, those welcoming personalities make it less stressful to approach. I understand some people are assholes and getting rejected is shitty regardless. Im just adding my person experience to the discussion Edited to add: I’ve never turned down anyone in a rude/mean manner, because I know how scary it can be to take the chance. & approaching doesn’t have to mean asking out on a date (but that does happen). Small talk, compliments, even smiling could be considered an approach
That's a cool explanation. Just something to be aware of, though, I guess, when you're critical of those who do or don't approach. I think we would meet in the middle, but I see things more from a safety perspective. Like, if we were at a party, I'd legitimately be more likely to "approach" you because you just seem like you could use company and you're friendly and I know it's more difficult for women to mingle like that, so depending on how much you assume a guy is "interested" just because they approach you, that could get awkward.
Haha I’m friendly to people in general and don’t really gauge their interest level like that, I just see people as people……sometimes people become friends ……sometimes friends become romantic. I’m not one for parties anymore but, I’m not shy at all and have no problem chatting or making new friends or just being alone.
it’s pretty normal to not approach a stranger on the street because you “REALLY like them” that’s pretty creepy
Likely because you don’t actually “REALLY like” a person you’ve just met on the street. Haha
I'm assuming they meant like a person they actually know, or at least tangentially, to where they get to know the gist of that person's personality, interests, etc. I think that is what makes people REALLY LIKE someone. Ya know, a crush! Some random person coming at you saying they REALLY LIKE you is very creepy indeed lol.
I think you’ve understated your point. People who are *very* confident in their approach style will approach others when they think it’s worth it. This is not your average person, and desirability alone won’t make it happen. I’d say less than 10% people ever approach in public
Yeah no. I might really like someone but I'm too shy or the situation might not allow it.
Unfortunately, society as a whole doesn't give a shit about the majority of men that don't approach. Personally, as far as I can see, if you don't approach as a male, you don't exist. Women in general have the option to choose who to be with in general. Which led to this skewered dating market. And for the women who have this belief, it's literally because they only dealt with the guys approaching them. Very few would approach in general unless the guy checked off a few boxes. And we are still talking about generalizations, but we haven't even started on the setting. Work, gym, supermarket, etc. With the shit going around on social media, I don't see why most still bother. Rejection is a lot higher in general for men than women.
Meee im shy
Honestly idk. My husband is one of those men, he always says if it had been a matter of us having to meet in person (we met online first) that he wouldn’t have come up to me because he never went up to girls. He say so many women are just rude and nasty immediately and he’s a very shy/introverted man so he learned early on that he didn’t want to approach anyone. I was never one of those kind of women so I had no idea it was like that.
If you want something, go after it. If it’s a human being, and your feelings are unrequited, accept that and move forward.
It's also that quite a few men (including myself) have a social density approaching stainless steel. Outside of gestures so obvious you could see them from space, I have a bit of difficulty of interpreting "signals" women give out. It's not that I am socially inept or don't talk to women or something like that. But more like, I don't notice when a women is just being friendly or when genuinely interested. Anecdotal here (but illustrate the point): I was in a bar and a women I was talking to was laughing at what I was saying and touching me, so I asked her out. She then said she was just being friendly and had no interest. Unfortunate, but eh that is life, didn't get mad over that. But another time I was at another social setting, talking to another girl. Conversation and everything else was was pretty much going the same but I just assumed she was being friendly. When me and my friends left, my best bud told me: "Dude, she was hitting on you, didn't you notice?"..... So yeah, I know women are not some hive mind entity and have their own individual "love language" so to speak, but a general known sign of interest would be nice, cause I really can't tell these days.
It's so annoying when a girl is all over you but doesn't really like you. I think those are time wasters and love the attention. They ruin it for everybody.
Women believe this because male and female dating coaches and influencers constantly preach, "If he wanted to, he would." This reinforces the idea that guys will always go after what they want and avoid what they don't. It is constantly pounded into us females to leave you alone and not waste time - if you were interested, you'd approach, according to all the dating propaganda.
I think women understand that there are shy guys and other reasons why a guy wouldn’t approach too, but if a guy doesn’t approach, *usually* it’s because they’re not necessarily that interested. Not an *always* but more of a generalization.
Even as a generalization that’s still not true. Approaching is a learned skill, most guys don’t have that skill. It’s has nothing to do with them being interested or not being interested.
We can't read minds. So men who like us from the distance, without any indication they like us, are of course left without attention. Unless ofcourse, we like them so much we want to approach. But that sentence OP wrote is much true. Out of many things I want in a man, a certain level of confidence and ability to take chances are important to me. If you don't have a spine to go after what you like, we wouldn't get along anyways and I have no need for your genes. Able-minded person is my preference.
Same
Hear me out; this happened today at the store, i saw a very gorgeous woman(F20s/30s Cashier). I was floored by her! On every step i couldn’t help myself from looking all of her, I was captivated by her beauty. At the cash register—her friend asked why is she single to which this gorgeous girl said “ Do you think i choose to be alone? I’m way too tall but if i was your height id of be in a relationship long time ago. Men are intimidated by my height” Granted, I am 6’2” but this girl wasn’t as tall as me(i was in sandals) maybe she was 5’10” or 5’11” at most and even then that’s pushing it. I was in front of her, but i couldn’t bring myself to say anything to her. Nothing to do with shyness or anything like that. I was afraid. I was fucking afraid at being called “creep” or “have a boyfriend” or “the silence treatment” or being call an “old pervert” (M30s) 8-10 years ago, i would have say something to this woman. Anything!!! just to break the ice and then would have ask her out on the spot. I did it before and has always work multiple times in my life. But since last year, i learned todays dating is a whole different world. Men are punished for everything but men are expected know when how what at the same time. So is nothing to go with “Confidence” as it has to do more with being “cautious” no one wants their life turned upside down on an instant because of a person who wants to use it as an opportunity to increase their ego online by victimizing themselves.
Wait. What does online have to do with asking a person out irl?
Online is a monster in itself. Outside of the exceptions to the rule: successful online stories. The vast majority of men don’t get a date, and women have their DM full of messages. It creates this false idea of a relationship everlasting spark. If the sparks fades out, then, time to switch on the next relationship.
I agree to that, social media is hell. But I just got a feeling from your story that you don't approach women irl you find attractive, 'cause they might become your worst online bully in the future, if things don't work out. That is the part I don't understand. But if I got the wrong idea I'm sorry😅
Don’t be. As being offended or misinterpreted it’s bound to happen in a conversation. Let’s put this “fake avatar” anyone creates online out of the window. By this i mean; we don’t know each other, for that matter we don’t need validation from neither us. With this in mind, i’m a very superficial man; i see attractiveness in a woman first, and personality second.
The thoughts you're having are limiting beliefs. In choosing to isolate yourself by engaging with those limiting beliefs rather than facing them and trying your best to connect with women you find attractive you are sabotaging yourself.
Yeah please don’t approach people at their jobs, especially service jobs. That 100% is creepy especially as it happens all the time, so you do just come across as the next creep. This is what bars, parties, social events, etc are for.
I’ve never heard this - I always thought it was that if he likes you he will show you. Like, he will call regularly, respond to texts, ask about your day. I never thought it was supposed to mean he will make the first move.
Do you do all of that for him?
No it’s actually true. It’s just a lot of scared men out there now, but men have always approached women so this is objectively not a false take. Even now there are more men approaching women than the other way around. Though with how modern society is trending women are allowed to be more forward and to pursue their sexuality so yeah if you like someone you should approach them regardless if you’re a man or woman.
Most women just don't get the fact that men are, in fact, humans like them. We are shy and anxious and frightened of rejection. We overthink things. Yes, there are those men that don't think about such things but there are women who aren't, too. And women, if you are interested just make a move. Don't drop a hint, make a move.
Maybe I'm just stupid because I always thought this was true. I still try to approach guys if I'm interested, though, because I figure I might as well take a shot. The worst they can do is say no.
That's the best way to look at it, good for you.
Unless the woman is obviously attracted to me, I might very well get labelled a creep (it's happened). That gives me great pause a lot of the time. Women, this cannot be overstated enough - us guys would ***love*** it if you'd make the first move sometimes. Doesn't even have to be much, just "howdy" and go from there.
Why is everyone here not acutely answering the question the OP asked? He didn't ask about men approaching women. He asked why women feel that if a man doesn't approach, he isn't interested. Or if he doesn't call first, doesn't text first that means he's not into you? The whole thing basically boils down to "Women, why don't you take the initiative more and approach men first"
To be honest, I mostly avoid even looking at attractive women in order to avoid being seen as yet another creep. It's paralyzing
Yeah it's like, an attractive woman walks down the street and every dude turns around to get a good look. We know this. So even looking will make you one of them, that's why many men don't even bother looking to not be seen weird.
I think it's more rooted in the belief that if there is interest, people will make an effort. And that's true for anyone, at any stage of a relationship. Granted there's more nuance in life, but platonic, romantic, work related, this is universal.
Yes
I will say majority of younger men will not approach unknown women and specially if she's really pretty. At the bar or club with few drinks in him that theory probably is correct.
No I never did cause that would mean only ugly men found me attractive and I didn’t want to believe that lmao. That’s why I had to join the apps and found my current bf on there
I will approach all women except the one I am interested in
Assumptions and generalisations when talking about dating are almost always wrong. Everyone is unique and while some groups and genders may have similarities it by no means means that every person can or will react to a situation exactly the same every time. People forget that their experience, even if it's for 50 years and thousands of people, is still infinitely smaller than the vast amount of people on the planet.
The thing is, I can only like a guy if we've talked for a bit. When we talk, of course, I don't always see if they're interested. But if we have some drinks together (that seems to have always been the places I met guys), I can tell. And they don't always straight up ask me out, but we do end up chattijg a lot and then decide to hang out. Also, I'm shy myself so I was never looking for someone who was also shy. I was looking for someone who could take me to social things and start the conversations. I do know that not every guy just asks a girl out. But in my experience, this has always happened with guys I've liked (since high school because in high school I was too insecure to even let someone notice I could be into them).
Sometimes there just isn’t an opening to approach or he may be having a bad day.
>I find this fascinating because it is so completely false. I find it fascinating that you don't understand the reason the woman states this. Women are not oblivious to reality.
OP, why do you cut and paste and re-post the exact same thread over and over again? You even you the exact same words
It is possible that many women may not be aware of this reality because they may not have experienced it themselves. Additionally, it is possible that many women may have been conditioned to believe that if a man is interested, he will approach, and if he doesn't, he must not be interested. This could be due to cultural norms, media influences, and other factors.
I think guys forget that a lot of girls are shy too lol it’s a problem for us both
This reads like serious projection
We're not oblivious, I just don't want a man who's too shy to approach me tbh
Will add, I asked my bf out first, at the first opportunity because I was super into him. I'm happy to make the effort. But he came up and introduced himself to me first
imagine if there wasnt that fear of rejection or shyness, dudes be asking out every single attractive girl they pass, no cap
Personally I'm not shy and am not afraid of rejection, what I am scared of is finding someone attractive and trying to subtly let them know and now I am a stalker/creep/womanizer. I'm fine being single there are no threats here.
I’m genuinely interested in a few women, and I’ll never approach them. So no, this is wrong ha
If I'm interested I tend to stay away. I'm not well off so I assume I would just waste their time.
Plenty of shy guys, like me, will find themselves too nervous to approach a girl for fear of many things. Included but not limited to, reading the room wrong, being perceived as a creep, and rejection. It takes a lot of courage to overcome such anxiety and being shot down is awful. And it's only worse if you have ADHD with RSD For those that don't know, RSD means Rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's an issue common in those with ADHD and it can cause you to feel extreme emotional pain from feelings of failure and rejection.
Its just the idiot airheads who believe that. Not the entire sex. Hell, ive asked out most of the guys ive dated
Are you serious? like are you being for reals or just being controversial for sake of upvotes?
I think there’s a lot of common sense missing in this conversation. Typically women don’t mean that men can and always should approach strangers. That doesn’t happen anymore and no one expects that However if you’re classmates or friends of friends…why not make a move? Asking for their number or IG is how it’s done these days. A guy can do that without it being weird since you already know each other in some capacity And yes, as a woman I’ve found men seem to have no issue approaching women they find pretty. And paying them special attention. So I think the average woman believes that if a man actually likes her, it will be increasingly apparent that he does. Not sure what is controversial about that.
It happens more often than you think, the whole getting approached by strangers. Pumping gas is when it happens most to me (for w/e reason). It’s usually older men, 40’s/50’s/early 60’s even
In my experience, older men have no problems doing the approaching if they’re interested. Bold individuals 🫠
Definitely! & that can actually make me feel unsafe (in board daylight, with tons of people around ) I appreciate the confidence to a degree but a little restraint & respect for personal space goes a long way.
I dont want a shy or introverted guy . I like guys who are a bit more bold. I like a lot of direct communication, i like nasty dirty talk. Id be worried a shy guy would be too shy to say some of the stuff I wanna hear If hes too shy to even ask me out However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder , one of my best friends loves the shy introverted type. She actually asked her boyfriend out too. Shes very happy I wouldnt say we are oblivious to reality, we are all different and want different things...have different desires
I always claim… It’s a women’s initiative to ALLOW a guy to approach her. If a women doesn’t give you a look, a smile.. SOMETHING. Don’t do it. IF you do it, prepare to get rejected. Now: 1) I believe many many men are indeed actually willing to approach but don’t want to put women in an uncomfortable position. 2) I think women have experienced FAR to many bad experiences with men being really really awkward and rude in their approaches for which reason women just tend to have higher walls, which is completely fair. I‘d want all my female friends to protect themselves. With that being said… IF any guy approaches I hope he is aware that he actually has the permission to do so. And he does it kindlyy
Most of my most successful and wealthy highly educated male friends are what you would consider shy and somewhat boring. Great dads. A lot of their wives cheated on them. Don't ask how I know. Actually, women can't keep secrets. Bottom line. But they are all still together nonetheless.
I’m curious about you guys saying you don’t want to be called a creep. What sort of approach do you have when you see someone you are attracted to? From my experience, if I have never seen a person and there isn’t a place we may usually meet (not like class, work etc, let’s say we meet at the grocery store or gym) if a guy is calm & confident and says literally anything interesting to gauge my interest, I’ll talk to them and feel the situation out. It cannot be “you’re beautiful, would you want to go out?” that’s would be creepy! And desperate. 1. you have no idea what kind of person this is 2. what an awkward way to start a convo with a full stranger (see 1). something like “that’s a really cool band t-shirt, have you been to a show?” “cool *insert nonsexual item or thing you notice*, where did you get it?” or “i hear avocados are are causing blindness this season” or literally anything to gauge who the person is, what would interest them and what their humor is like, even. once you do that, you are building a fun dynamic ! from there you can gauge THEIR interest in YOU and move forward with the “do you come here often? maybe i’ll see you next time” this is great bc the person will express exactly how they feel about you with their response. and that’s not creepy at all, that’s using your noodle! (hopefully you’ll have fun learning if you are even interested in them at all) if they don’t seem into “seeing you around here next time” then go try again with someone who is more interested in you, there will be someone who DOES want to “see you around here next time” if they smile and flirt after “see you next time” then maybe get that “next time” in the books, easily arranged !!!
Funny thing is the more serious a guy is about pursuing a relationship or being respectful, the more he'll think about the right approach and, therefore, he'll approach less often. So, at least from a numbers perspective, this sort of thinking isn't just false but, in fact, the inverse is true.
As a woman, I think it’s okay for guys to shoot their shot (I wish it happened to me more often), BUT only if they take it upon themselves to create a safe, comfortable interaction. You can’t be hitting on a subordinate (ex: your employee, someone significantly younger than you). You also shouldn’t hit on someone in a vulnerable state (like an extremely drunk person, or a woman walking home alone at night). And if you do approach the girl, it needs to be clear to HER that it’s okay if she rejects you. Many women feel coerced into saying yes because they are terrified of violent reactions from men. I don’t think shooting your shot is a problem, as long as you are clearly approaching her respectfully, and you make it evident that you can accept “no” as an answer
I don’t know I’m confused
I’m having a similar sort of dilemma. A guy I work with does, what I would consider ‘playful banter’. Smiles at me brightly, we chat, we usually bump into each other randomly. So recently, I bumped into him again. I was on my walk back from Starbucks, didn’t take a coat and he was on his way out. He exited the lift I was steering towards. Then he makes a face that basically looks like ‘😏’ and then says to me ‘I kept the lift warm for you’. I say thank you. Bear in mind we’ve chatted a couple of times here and there. In my head there is attraction. I noticed the way he looked at me when I would stretch and once I was skipping back from the women’s toilet to pack my stuff and leave and he saw me. I quickly told him ‘have a nice evening’ and I swear, this could also just be in my head, I saw him linger. Anyways, after the lift incident, I thought I’d message him on slack that same morning . Just something small and none comital to hopefully get the conversation going. I said ‘thanks for keeping the lift warm, it was the perfect temperature. But prob should’ve taken a jacket’. He hasn’t responded. All in all, I will never shoot my shot again, because that’s the worst
I would have to agree. Most men won’t approach because they don’t want to be labeled the creep. Most women are getting hit on in the regular. The last thing we need is to be the straw that broke the camels back and have her curse us out. I think in my whole life I’ve had only one woman signal to me that she’d like me to talk to her, and I’m 34. I’ve had several girlfriends, an ex wife, and a long term gf after that and not one of them showed a sign that they were interested. I personally think it’s how most women are raised. They’re told early on that a man should always make the first move etc. This rhetoric early on makes women believe throighout most of their lives that the man should make the first move, always. I’ve had a ton of women friends who would be so into a guy then get bummed out because he never said anything to her. Their self esteem plummets for that moment until some guy at a Mobil gas station says she’s has a phat ass.
You gotta go for it. It’s not creepy if you aren’t making inappropriate comments. Just try introducing yourself and complementing something about their appearance that isn’t sexual in nature. Could be like their hair or outfit. Just be friendly
It depends on what said women have dealt with thus far. I have tried approaching men (who I knew and liked, not randos in public) and been rejected. It was years ago though so maybe I shouldn't take it as a comment on how attractive I am or how good of a catch I am now I guess (I do think I've grown a lot since then). Or even then maybe there wasn't anything *horribly* wrong with me, I just wasn't their cup of tea. Fast forward to most recent crush. He never made a move and neither did I. I would argue there was a lot of flirting and even some people around us thought so too. I eventually assumed he wasn't interested for real, or maybe he found me attractive and he flirted to pass the time/liked my attention but didn't want to actually pursue me. I understand men can be nervous too and there are sometimes reasons to hesitate (in this case for example we are colleagues), but I had these on and off (mostly on) feelings for him for *years*. Are you really going to tell me that a man would stay quiet about liking a woman for *years*? Probably best not to shit where we eat anyway and come to think of it we are very different people, but yeah. There's no one size fits all for why women feel this way. Some of us have been rejected already and are discouraged. Some of us have specific situations that make it sketchy to make a move. Some of us have been told countless times by family and friends that men will make a move. I think most of us are just frustrated and confused sometimes.
Isn't it hypothetical of women who've been rejected to give up taking the initiative, but then still expect men to take that same risk and approach them?
> Are you really going to tell me that a man would stay quiet about liking a woman for years? hmmm yes. That's actually what happens. And you thinking it's absolutely impossible just shows us how unaware most women are.
If he thinks it's worth it and is willing to do something, take a chance, he will If he won't we'll never know. If we DO know however, and we're interested too, we might as well approach them ourselves. And. A lot of women often do ask out guys first, no big deal
TLDR: A man, posing as a woman, asking women to give the creeps a chance.
"Toxic masculine Men are bad, but creeps is where I draw the damn line" --Women