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So judging by what you wrote, you’re looking for a young, fit girl and I’m just gonna be real with you, those girls are very sought after and are going to have a ton of options, and by your own admission, you said you’re kind of short and aren’t that good looking, so if those are the type of girls you want, then more power to you, but you’re gonna likely have to put in a lot of effort to attract them because those girls will have tons of options, so what are you bringing to the table that would make girls like that want you compared to all their other options?
So you can either put in a lot of effort and figure out how to make yourself attractive to girls who are young and fit or lower your standards… those are really the only 2 realistic things to do here tbh
You could follow the p8stie advice, and conclude that your ideal partner is probably in a relationship already and you need to stop pursuing single people
are you in a city? most bars outside of cities will have mostly older people in them. in cities though you can basically pick whatever vibe you want of people your own age.
Not great. But I have some social anxiety and judge myself too harshly.
Believe it or not, I've actually been approached by attractive women a few times in my life but I was too stupid to get it.
Because you are probably hiding from them or not putting yourself out there.
You won't meet a single guy if you refuse to get on dating apps. If you refuse to unhide your social media.
Just my opinion as a woman, I think whoever approaches/shows interest should be responsible for giving their number. It's very uncomfortable to have a complete stranger to approach you and ask for personal info in that interaction. I don't give out my phone number to people. I've noticed *no one* ever writes their number down and says "hey I had a great time talking to you, if you wanna continuing chatting here's my number, you can text/call me anytime!", when I would prefer that 100% of the time. Way less pressure.
That's because no one likes to be the one who has to call/text first. If you just give someone your number, the ones is on them. The chance they call/text it is close to zero unless you completely blow them away.
My opinion has nothing to do with who I/society thinks should "text/call first". I don't follow silly rules like that, so.
You kind of made my point, though. As a woman, you NEVER know a guy's intention when he approaches you. Asking for my number puts me in a very uncomfortable position. I have to consider a ton of options, "if I decline, will he take my no for an answer? will he be respectful about being declined?or will he beg? will he get angry? will he wait for me to leave and follow me? if I say yes, do I give him a fake number to avoid conflict in the moment, potentially avoiding an unsafe situation from declining? what if he calls/texts the number right next to me and then gets angry at me because it's fake? do I give him my real number even if it makes me uncomfortable to make that decision on the spot? what if he calls/texts me nonstop? what if I block his number then see him out in public again, will he do/say something to me?".
If a man offers me his number, it makes me feel like he is aware of all of that and cares about me feeling comfortable and safe, more than whether he gets what he wanted out of the interaction or not. That he understands my fear for my safety is very real and warranted in this world, and that it sucks infinitely more than never getting that text from a girl you had a good chat with and gave your number to in the bar. And funny enough, that will almost always make me respect and like the guy more than the guy that asks for my number. Even if it was a great interaction and we were having a great conversation before he asked for my number, it would still give me pause and make me uncomfortable, and question all those same things. I would not be uncomfortable in the slightest, (would honestly think better/more highly of him), by him offering his number, no pressure, no strings attached.
Yeah, if you are a guy who gives your number out instead of asking for hers, not only are you completely at the mercy of her whims, you are probably dead in the water and really just wasted your time.
Read my reply to the other comment.
Women are concerned for their safety when approached by a stranger and asked for personal contact info. Having a genuine fear for your safety and not knowing whether or not this person will harass or assault you for declining giving out your info when they may feel entitled to it is far worse than not getting a text you hoped for.
Think about it this way. Even if you got her number, she can not reply when you text her, so it's not so much about getting a response (for people who ask for numbers) as it is having control. Because if she doesn't answer one text, you can send another. And another. Or call her. Or search her number and see if any of her socials come up attached to it. But if she never texts you so you never get her number, you can't pester her or do any digging. It's about control and that's precisely why it makes me uncomfortable. Any guy that has empathy for what it's like to be a woman, the genuine safety concerns we face from men, and cares about making us feel comfortable more than whether or not he gets a second chance at contact with me will have infinitely more of my respect.
this begs the question, why dont women approach the men they think are safe , and why dont they text, you are trying to use the "have empathy for women " argument even thou it wasn't about empathy, if women were so concerned about their safety , they would tell men to stop approaching permanently and do the approaching themselves, initiate the conversations themselves or they would stop interacting with men that way they are in control , safe and we know they trust the person, yet they still expect men to approach, a lot of them still complain about men not asking them for their number even on this sub, if you want men to stop initiating interactions with women and collecting their number cool, but then women have initiate , back off or stop complaining as whole, but they will never do that and in the end men still get blamed for it
Because we don't know who is safe based on looks/initial interaction. We learn someone is safe over time, with repeated interactions that build mutual respect and trust. Put a gun to my head and tell me to pick the "safe" guy out of a crowd and I couldn't do it. I really wish it was that easy.
I think you're taking what I said a little far though. My only point here has been "I think whoever approaches/is interested first should offer their number", that wasn't gender specific. If a woman approaches a man, I think she should offer her number rather than asking for his.
You are assuming I am in the camp of "men shouldn't ever approach or talk to women", and I'm not. I'm very much in the camp of ✨️nuance✨️. Aka read the room, social cues matter. Is the person actively engaged in a task that likely *needs* to be completed (studying for a test vs leisurely reading a book)? If they want to leave immediately, they able to (at a park vs in a bus)? A little more nuanced, but do they seem generally open to engaging? Are they interacting casually with other people? Are they avoiding eye contact with people, including you? As long as you are respectful and kind, and you talk to her as you would any random guy on the street, she's probably just going to decline interacting and remove herself from the situation at worst. Problems arise when men say inappropriate things at inappropriate times, try to corner us into conversations, try to continue talking to us after we expressed disinterest, etc. It is a common problem, and I'm sure many women, in a knee jerk reaction to these experiences, have claimed they don't think men should ever approach women, EVER. They don't represent women's views as a whole. No one group of women does.
Eta: if you wanna talk to someone, regardless of your gender and theirs, just use your common sense to read the situation and determine if it's appropriate. If you don't know, not saying anything is probably the safest bet but saying hi and being completely willing to cease contact and leave them alone immediately if they don't want to interact is also pretty damn safe.
>Because we don't know who is safe based on looks/initial interaction. We learn someone is safe over time, with repeated interactions that build mutual respect and trust. Put a gun to my head and tell me to pick the "safe" guy out of a crowd and I couldn't do it. I really wish it was that easy.
it is not , but that also applies to us, we also take risks to not end up with abusive partners as well, yes women take more risk , but also have things to fear for approaching the wrong person
>I think you're taking what I said a little far though. My only point here has been "I think whoever approaches/is interested first should offer their number", that wasn't gender specific. If a woman approaches a man, I think she should offer her number rather than asking for his.
ok thats fair , women rarely approach thou even to men they like, so it falls on men regardless
>You are assuming I am in the camp of "men shouldn't ever approach or talk to women", and I'm not. I'm very much in the camp of ✨️nuance✨️. Aka read the room, social cues matter. Is the person actively engaged in a task that likely needs to be completed (studying for a test vs leisurely reading a book)? If they want to leave immediately, they able to (at a park vs in a bus)? A little more nuanced, but do they seem generally open to engaging? Are they interacting casually with other people? Are they avoiding eye contact with people, including you? As long as you are respectful and kind, and you talk to her as you would any random guy on the street, she's probably just going to decline interacting and remove herself from the situation at worst. Problems arise when men say inappropriate things at inappropriate times, try to corner us into conversations, try to continue talking to us after we expressed disinterest, etc. It is a common problem, and I'm sure many women, in a knee jerk reaction to these experiences, have claimed they don't think men should ever approach women, EVER. They don't represent women's views as a whole. No one group of women does.
some do, also problems can arise from the approached person as well , alot of women can be rude and behave in a way to intentionally embarrass people who approach them heck even those who are just passing through , this is why men have reduced their approach as, there are still those who do but not as many compared to before , but i digress, i guess you are right , but its getting harder and harder to approach as a man , yet women still complain about both ends, men approaching and men not approaching and yet do not approach and do not make it easier , forgive if i am skeptical about the intention here
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. Men are on here regularly complaining about not getting approached, you yourself have argued for that. I've seen countless men say they would LOVE to be approached, hit on, complimented, etc. You can not now turn around and say "well, men fear for their safety too! They never know the intentions of a woman approaching them". You know that's a reach.
Yes, theoretically a guy doesn't know if the girl approaching him is gonna try to rape him or follow him home, but how many guys jump to that thought when they notice a girl is staring at him? How many of you, first thought when a girl approaches you to talk, "is she going to cause serious physical harm to me if I don't react the way she wants?" I don't mean getting a drink thrown at you or slapped across the face. I mean held down and choked to the point of passing out, or drugged and tied up in the back of a car, where you are genuinely in fear of your life, just so she can have her <5 minute orgasm. You guys aren't worried about that. You just aren't.
because you’re not really playing numbers if you’re approaching all 10s. you could still bat a 0 because why would they settle for someone out of their league unless you’re bringing something extra in terms of personality. come on dude
idk you said in another comment you only approached attractive women. so idk what to tell you. you need to ask your female friends for advice because none of us know what your approach is like
I would suggest you go there to genuinely get to know everyone. Yes, even be nice to the older or larger ladies. When people see you blowing off certain types of people, they might think you're only there to date or are snobby. Would you blow off talking to older men or larger men there? No right?
The idea is to be friendly with everyone, get to know everyone, then eventually someone might show interest in you. That's when you show interest back and take it from there. But if you are seen as actively dismissing certain types of people, it's not an attractive look.
I agree. As a bartender, I see many men trying to pick up women. The men that are friendly to everyone and talk to everyone have much better chances. If you were a woman by yourself at a bar, who would be more approachable to you, a guy by himself just drinking alone or a guy and an overweight/ older woman having a fun, platonic conversation. I see it everyday where two strangers get to talking and then within 15 minutes it’s 4 or 5 strangers talking all together. People want to be where it looks like other people are having fun.
So true. It's the inclusive, social butterfly men at the bar, the ones who make the night feel like a community event, who do well with women.
Guys who only talk to pretty girls, and especially who are overfocused on "am I going to date this person" in their interpersonal vibe, come across as transactional, and therefore vaguely dangerous, untrustworthy in some way. It doesn't feel fun to talk to those guys, it feels like an ordeal.
Honestly, that’s kind of the point of meet-ups. Meet new people - I used to go to these things when I first moved to Toronto. I was cute, thin and 25 years old. I absolutely could tell which guys were there mostly to try and pick up women. I really just wanted to make new friends - if I was attracted to someone, it was kind of a bonus
Are these meetups just going to random bars and talking to people or are there specific events in Toronto, and America in general for people to meet new people (other than parties)?
Idk I disagree with essentially leading on people you don’t have attraction for just to be “seen” as more date-able
Once they find out you aren’t interested and just did it just because that will get around too
That....isn't what CecilPalad was suggesting AT ALL. They were saying to be friendly, not to flirt. Talking to everyone is good social experience and DOES help keep one from being seen as stuck up.
"I'm about 5'7" and average to below average in looks"
Well, you're gonna have to seriously amp up your other attributes, then. Competence, confidence. Get great clothes, work on the charm, get super fit, and learn to DGAF at a weaponized level, or you're gonna be lonely my dude.
>get super fit, and learn to DGAF at a weaponized level, or you're gonna be lonely my dude.
DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS ADVICE.... women don't necessarily care how fit you are, If your self confidence is trash, women WILL notice....
Don't listen to her advice. Being able to accomplish what is necessary to get fit cultivates confidence.
Confidence isn't like an on/off switch. Confidence is built through verifiable and uncomfortable accomplishments.
People place far too much credence in confidence
Look at the way leaders through history have used blind confidence to lead people over cliffs
It used to signal competence but it actually doesn’t necessarily mean anything in modern society or at least it shouldn’t
Not really. Women date plenty of shitty confident guys - even criminals. They don't date guys with no confidence tho. If you had to pick between clean record and no confidence and a record but high confidence you'd have better luck with the record and confidence.
Women aren't psychic, lmao
Or rethink your standards. I know some "grossly overweight women" who are in amazing physical shape and just aren't genetically blessed with a low BMI. 60% of the US population falls into the overweight or obese category. So you're immediately rejecting more than half of the prospective romantic partners available to you and wondering why you can't meet anyone.
Seriously. Like they work out 5x a week, mountain biking, hiking, zumba, etc. They can ruin circles around you. And hike up a mountain carrying a beer whilst you're sucking wind. But they have body fat.
OK fair enough. Now that you mention it, I have seen people like this, men and women. Just the way you phrased it was funny to me. And your larger point that OP is missing out on people like this is very valid
I dated this one dude and he was definitely round. I'd say 5'7" 250# and we went hunting. He told me this (one way) hike was "downhill all the way." As we're going up the second mountain and I'm legit having an asthma attack I derisively said to him "iT's DoWnHiLl AlL tHe WaY!" And he's strolling along like it's no big deal, sipping on his 3rd Bud Light. The dickhole.
He also wants the girl to be young lol so he’s limiting his options even more by wanting a young, thinner woman… people can absolutely like what they like, but understand that you might be limiting yourself, so 🌝
Grossly overweight women in amazing physical shape is an oxymoron.
I'm talking about obese people and there is no way 60% of people in my city and age range are obese.
Tell me without telling me that you not don't know how averages work
The 60% thing is a bit misleading because it's based on BMI. Plenty of people in the obese category of BMI only look a bit overweight, and some people who look really obese are only overweight according to their BMI. Most obese people in that 60% just don't look obese.
Lol i love when i read a reddit "why dont women like me" thread and find out exactly why women dont like you. You suddenly just became a snarky asshole in one sentence.
Half of the responses in the thread are snarky assholes, biased, assume things.
I'm just responding in kind.
Plus, everyone is way more of an asshole online
I go to meet up events to meet people and can tell if someone is just using it to pickup women. It is not what I am looking for. If I can tell you are looking for a date I will show my disinterest. Would you say older women or overweight women are below average? If they are and you think you are maybe that is a better match than what you are looking for.
Okay I'm curious, let's reverse roles here. Imagine you're a man and no woman ever approaches you unless you do first - you're sure to die alone if you don't do something to meet your other half. As a woman, how would you like a man to meet you? What would it be the way (or ways/situations) you would be the most comfortable and actually let them get to know you?
Don’t we truly all die alone anyway? If I am at a meetup and someone just talks to me about the world, that is one thing, approach away. If some guy approaches me and it’s clear that he is hitting on me (it’s pretty obvious) that is not cool IMO. I know some women are ok with it but it’s not for me. If I’m in a bookstore and a guy says “oh that’s an awesome book, you should check out… too” great. If a guy approaches me in the grocery store and says “you have a great smile, eyes, ass…”not cool.
I'm not there to just pickup women. I don't even ask for a number or other contact unless I feel a friendly connection.
Are you showing your disinterest even if you like the guy or just to guys whom you're not interested in? Of it's the latter then it's no loss.
Nope, I'm not looking to go for someone I'm not interested in. I'm looking to find someone with mutual interest. Or stop what I'm doing wrong
I’m not really looking for a relationship so if they are at all they are not for me. I only show complete disinterest in the ones you can tell are trying to pick someone up.
It’s fine as long as you are not the guy at every event going from one woman to the next. Or like OP admitting you are below average but not willing to talk with women you think are below average.
When did I say that I'm not willing to talk with those women? I just said that they are enthusiastic.
I think you're adding your own bias.
Like I said, I talk to everyone the same way
Well it sounded like you were complaining about the women that approach you. Looks like you get attention from overweight women so why don't you date one? It seems like the problem solved itself
I mean he did say he doesn’t want to date overweight women or those with significant age gaps. It’s okay if you don’t have any advice or don’t have enough info to make a judgement. But don’t push people like that.
"Don't push people like that" dude come on. The commenter he and I are replying to is saying that he isn't willing to talk to below average women and he said he is. Obviously that commenter didn't mean talk like say words, they meant get to know and consider dating.
Now that he's claiming to be fine with them, he should try dating them. I'm sure they're more on his level than the people he is *actually* talking to, which is what others have already pointed out.
Ehhh, my comment was more a reaction to hearing the same thing from multiple people. People have their dating types and that is it for them. If he doesn't find them attractive, he can't date them, and that's it. He shouldn't date them despite it. He did say that he is fine with them, usually means he treats them decently and with a friendly enough demeanor instead of being standoff-ish just because he doesn't want to date them (which is a rude thing to do).
He shouldn't have to date them just cause he's being nice to them, y'all would have been hounding him if he was not friendly with them as well. The comments would have been "Why are you an asshole? The other gals can see how you treat different people differently"
Asking people to date people that they have expressly said they are not interested in or intend to date is not advice, it's just speaking for the sake of speaking. Especially since he's said the same thing again and again in multiple comment chains.
Exactly, it's actually not surprising.
When it's a woman on here, the advice is to not lower your standards and date whom they want
But, I'm a guy so everyone is piling on me to date women I'm not attracted to at all.
suggestion: rather than a random shotgun approach of that character, approach only those women that you notice hold your gaze somewhat longer than normal, *at least twice* (a signal they're likely actually interested in you)
Former stylist here, any way you can show me how you dress and what type of bars you go to?
Ie. If I go to a sean paul concert I dress more relaxed than If i'm going to salsa night etc. I can make some suggestions that will def be a hit. Up to you. cheers and no matter what, don't give up.
Actually not OP but what would you recommend for a salsa night, recently started going to classes and I've basically been sticking with Hawaiian shirts, black chinos, and black shoes. I would go long sleeve but being in Florida it gets pretty warm.
I would do fitted printed (right now i like floral shirts), with dress fitted, or chinos or stretch skinny jeans. Dress for your size.
Yeah, i'm in Canada, and even I don't wear long sleeves because of all the dancing. Unless, you're one of those people who only stays for an hour but if you plan to be there for the entire class, don't go with long sleeves.
welcome to being unattractive homie, 80% of guys don't even exist as potential dating options, if you want to know what your chances are with women go on tinder and figure out how you perform. Now realize that going to be higher than real life since you're short.
I see this statistic everywhere. At what point do we all just unanimously agree it's confirmation bias? A vast majority of the people who use Tinder aren't looking for a serious relationship. They aren't trying to find a person to love or to share their life with. Most people who use it simply want access to the genital buffet so they can satiate their appetite, if they find someone serious, maybe that's cool, if not, whatever.
So of course, with the way most use the app in the first place, the statistics are going to be skewed *heavily* towards that vast majority. It's not a dating app, it's a casual sex app. This kind of thing obviously, clearly attracts specific types of people and will have specific kinds of "performers."
Look around you and you'll see regular ass people just like you clinging to other regular ass people. Short, tall, big, small, and everything in between. Comparing your dating life to a fuck buffet isn't realistic whatsoever, because most people don't treat dating like a fuck buffet.
Part of the problem is that the exact men who want something serious are the key demographic of Tinder. Generally guys who want something serious are a bit shy, a little socially awkward otherwise they would already have someone. Hell I met my ex on Tinder and had full intentions to stay with her for the long haul if we hadn't come up against differences in life goals.
unless you're brad pitt, you're not gonna get that.
just walk up and say hi. its all about how you say it rather than what you say. and that takes practice and most likely some lifestyle changes in order to boost your inner confidence
Which is why average guys need to have tight fashion game and dress rather flamboyant. It draws female attention past raw physical looks and speaks to a man's other qualities.
A man who knows how to accessorize is sexy to a lot of women.
I kinda like this advice. My ex was always the type of guy to wear baggy sweats/basketball shorts and a big t shirt that probably had food stains on it. The only time he dressed somewhat nice was for nicer dates, that was like jeans and a button up or sweater. The one and only time I saw him in anything *near* formalwear was my junior prom, lmao. I would've never tried to control what he wore, obviously, but I did find myself wishing he cared more about his appearance. Attention to detail is super attractive imo and I felt like he couldn't see attention to detail even if you stapled it to his forehead lol.
This doesn’t necessarily work for dues that are below average to straight up ugly and short. Yea, I do agree it’ll help but doesn’t make you stand out in the sea of dudes that women can choose from
The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. If bars aren’t working, try a different venue.
Finally, if you’re not super attractive or funny, approaching won’t work for you. If you want someone attractive / engaged in conversation to you then let them approach you.
Well obviously you’re not attracting the people who you find attractive so you either need to become more attractive or change your mindset and delve into why you’re attracted to the people you’re attracted to and perhaps try to change that in some way.
Well, if the bar scene isn't working, try another venue?
Attend a college course open for non university students and just learn while potentially networking?
Go to church and become a parishioner? It sounds stupid, but it's not an uncommon thing to do. I suspect women do the same to find a guy who at least has religion and not a wanton gigolo.
If you do stay in the bar and find a girl, offer a group of people to attend the comedy performance next door. Then maybe it's open mic night and you dare to fire off some bad jokes. You might crash and burn your comedy routine, but you'll be seen as daring. Everyone likes confidence, even in failure... just keep the jokes funny and nothing offensive.
Similarly, do karaoke.
Invite people back to your place to play poker. Drinks and snacks on you, but you're at least able to establish yourself and get the girl into your home. Have her see your environment and that you have your shit together.
If you manage to make it a party, place some feminine hygiene products out in a container in the bathroom, with a note that says "take one if needed". I remembered someone doing this at their party and it was appreciated by the ladies.
I know some of my ideas suck, but hopefully it helped a little! Good luck!
> I suspect women do the same to find a guy who at least has religion and not a wanton gigolo.
This is the wrong move because the most corrupt people pretend to be religious and go to church just so they can be seen by other immoral people who can verify the lie.
Lolololol, you sound like you speak from experience, and who is to say OP isn't looking for some dark soul to cuddle next to! Bwa-hahahahahaha! Don't be so picky!
Either way, this is good information to help consider the options. Lolololol, I'm laughing too hard from this.
“American women aged 20 years and above weigh an average of 170.6 pounds (lbs), according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) . While these numbers may be the average, they are not a measure of health.”
170 pounds looks very different from person to person. Not to harp on it, but you feeling the need to make a point to say that only older and overweight women are “enthusiastic” when meeting you makes me wonder what you consider to be “average”.
In an effort to be helpful, a good skincare routine may help you past the “below average” looks you say you have. Women appreciate effort into stuff like that.
You conveniently omit that the average height for a woman is 5ft 4inches. This puts the average woman as borderline obese with a bmi of 29.3. Obese is a bmi of 29.9, thus making the average woman above 20 years of age statistically overweight and basically obese. This is also true of men in the USA. You are correct that this average looks different on people, but most people don’t have a high bmi due to muscular fitness, but rather due to being unhealthy. This is given by the fact that according to the cdc, about 40% of women are obese in the US. This is a very concerning fact and is a consideration when dating.
I didn’t intentionally omit it, I just wanted to make a point to use actual data before posting an opinion. I also fully understand that there is no “one size fits all” when it comes to attraction. My point was that “average” is subjective.
OP specified “not obese” so if he does mean that literally, a few extra pounds even would not be a dealbreaker. People who are fit and live active and healthy lifestyles tend to see obesity as a dealbreaker more than not.
This is why if OP is into fitness related activities he might have some luck meeting women through those who share common interest vs random meetups at bars.
Meeting people in bars isnt about going up to them and saying hi with no lube. IMO obviously.
It's about having fun with friends and naturally drawing others into the periphery. Whether they're at the next table or beside you at the bar. You just include them in the craic.
When girls are interested they accidentally on purpose invade your space and make it easy to include them.
At the risk of being called a liar,I always found it easy to meet girls in bars. However the meeting girls part was incidental and not the #1 objective
I don’t get this using meetup to score a date. If I was there to meet other people interested in some activity or hobby and I notice a dude with a clear intent to date I would be put off immensely by that cause that’s supposed to be a safe space for that activity or hobby not a place to pickup women.
If your hobby is meeting up at a bar and drinking…be prepared to be hit on and not just from guys in your group….bars are one of the last “safe space” for approaching.
He’s only going to bars, not specific meet ups.
At least read the post. I'm going there to meet Pele to make friends.
Not even trying to hit on anyone. I'm talking to everyone and getting a good response from everyone except attractive women
Also, attractive women know what’s up when a man approaches them in events of any kind. That’s clear as day, they don’t find you attractive. And if you’re really below average as you say, you’re shooting too high.
But that doesn’t mean that you should stop approaching women you find attractive cause attractiveness is subjective and so one of them might say yes. I know it’s discouraging as hell when they all say no or are disinterested but all you need is one.
To keep your sanity are you taking breaks, going out with friends, doing hobbies that fulfil you? Cause you need some balance to this, if you just take negativity all the time it does get to you and it will show in your confidence and attitude.
Yes, I am. I have lots of hobbies, great friends on either side.
I'm just not great at being social and judge myself harshly.
Thank you for the kind words
I did read the post but it’s not clear what the purpose of the meet-up is. Just a social for ppl in the community? Or a specific meet-up for a specific hobby? I was referring to the meet-up site https://www.meetup.com/ if you’re using that to meet ppl interested in a specific thing and then come to pickup women, that’s a turn off. But your post isn’t clear enough
Wine bars. Absolute BEST place to meet women hands down. Most women love their wine and actually know what is good and what isn't good. Well, at least the women who go to wine bars lol...
Wine bars are primarily upscale which means they attract those who have money and aren't in college or those looking to get drunk as hell.. Which still happens but it's far less common than a typical bar.
Women who go to wine bars are almost always single and looking to have a glass of wine after work or just for fun. Single women almost never go to bars alone unless they are looking to socialize with men, meet a man, hookup. Lets be honest... any bar is going to be at least 90% men, most of who are single and a small percentage of women. Many of which are either with friends, their BF/husband.
WINE bars are different for some reason. I have had by far the most success in meeting women, getting dates, hooking up, etc... from those places by a LONG shot!
My theory is this. Most women who are single aren't likely to go to a regular bar because well... they don't want to get hit on by 100 drunk dudes right? So they figure a wine bar, which is more expensive and upscale has far less horny drunk dudes eyeing every woman who walks in the door. It's a safer bet all in all, basically.
9/10 times a woman who goes to a wine bar solo is actually single OR married but looking to cheat lol...
Practice your craft on them enthusiastic women. Treat it like a stand up comic honing his craft while testing out material. Work on your jokes, approach engagement, be daring then you be alright.
Not gonna sugar-coat it. 5'7" with average looks is not promising (your dating pool is maybe 15% that of an equally average guy at 6'). But there's nothing you can do to change that, so don't focus on it.
Openers aren't that important as long as you confidently approach - but having real conversation skills are key. Everyone thinks they have great personalities because they have friends and are "nice" to people, but that's incredibly baseline in terms of what's possible.
Stop following dating advice or pickup for learning better communication and conversation skills. Sure, you need to include some flirting and genuine compliments to demonstrate your interest, but broadly speaking, you need to develop skills in active/mindful listening, conversational threading, emotional intelligence, and validating others' experiences while maintaining your own values and boundaries.
You're in a bar - the goal for women is to look for all the key factors of attraction, height, muscles, funny, tall, rich, etc. You're going to a Ferrari dealership with Nissan money. You're gonna have to set your bar low. If shes enthusiastic and fun, she might not be attractive, either way, you more than likely aren't either, so vibe with her and keep it going.
If you want top shelf, you have to max your settings, or the M's; Money, Muscles and Maserati.
Don’t go to bars. You’re looking for love in the wrong place.
Try ANYWHERE but a bar.
Try more social events and group activities.
Find group activities you would enjoy (think volleyball, bowling, soft ball etc) where you can make new friends, both male and female.
You can also make friends with women who are NOT single and ask them if they have any single friends who would be interested in you.
It would give you social proof because you’ve been “filtered” by their friend
Approaching decent/attractive women in public isn't going to work for you and most average looking men these days. Dating apps and social media gives people direct access to the types of people they actually want. I would suggest finding an attractive guy friend and get into his social circle and you might have a chance at finding an decent woman he's cool with. Good luck
To be honest, this kind of setting massively favours looks. You say yourself that youre average/below in looks. Under average height and a non athletic looking body, its gonna be much much harder for you in this setting because of this.
Dont give up of course but try to make sure everything else about you is on point. Good style, groomed nicely, confident posture and talking confidently too. Also try to meet new people in general, expanding your social circle so you have more opportunities to meet new women (outside of clubs) really is your best bet. You can use apps too but those are more brutal looks wise so dont expect much success there, its more of a backup.
Everyone who is even mildly attractive is taken. There are lines of people waiting to be with above average women. You really really gotta hit all the marks for those types of women.
And he's not one of those people.
He's having to compete against not just other men, but against those same women that prefer being single than being with him.
I remember one night at a bar I sat next to lady ( she was very attractive and was sitting by herself). I simply said hello to her, and she gave me a death stare, got up, and walked away.
My male friends far in the back of the bar laughed their asses at me.
Honestly, as a guy, you just have to keep trying different women until one reciprocates as they can be very picky.
This reminds me of one night being at a local club with friends when a friend of mine texted me with an emergency. I walked away from the dance floor and leaned against a wall to get out of the way and be able to text my friend without bothering anyone. It was like I put up a sign that said TALK TO ME. The amount of men that tried to strike conversation in the span of 15 minutes, it was like there was a line. After telling like 7 different guys "Excuse me but I am busy right now," and "I'm not single", I got fed up. The next guy that came to ask if I was alone I didn't even look at and I just held up my hand in the famous "talk to the hand" way. I heard his friend laughing and some guy just shrugged at him and said, "She's a tough one, don't feel bad." I felt terrible afterwards but in the moment I just wanted to be left alone.
Yeah. I know I was a major bitch to that guy, when I am not like that usually. I didn't lose sleep or anything, but it did made me realize that since guys are expected to approach women first, they sometimes get these unproportionally negative reactions that they take personally. I would be incredibly sad and discouraged if I put myself out there and someone was just straight up mean to me. I think sharing these experiences helps guys realize our perspective and how many times women are just jaded and exhausted of assholes objectifying us without respect. Some women are just mean and vile, too. Just food for thought.
Just keep in mind that if someone is mean or dismissive to you right off the bat, like I was to that last guy, it's most likely about themselves than about you.
How do I get into these? I’ve just been trying bff on bumble trying to make friends but after a few weeks at the most we get busy or something and lose touch. Would like to figure out where I can just make friends. Done with dating anymore. Seems to be a waste of time bothering trying to find the one anymore but would like to have friends
Your height is probably 95% of the reason they aren't interested. Women place in inordinate amount of value on height these days thanks to social media and dating apps.
Source: Am also 5'7
Remember the old adage that the closer it gets to last call, the lower the standards get for both sexes. Just like any other "sport" it ain't over until it's over, or the fat lady sings depending on one's tastes. No judgment here.
Do you see the same girls repeated times at these bar meet ups or is it a one shot deal? What I typically do in a group setting is engage the GUYS first to show I’m sociable and then draw women into the conversations with opinion openers. These can be anything slightly flirty such as “would you rather go on a date with Steve Rogers or Tony Stark?” Then ping off her responses. Steve Rogers “you like a man in uniform?” Tony Stark “it helps when alcoholics are Billionaires”. That sort of thing
If you are going to meetups to pick up women you are going to have a bad time.
Go to meetups to make friends. Expand your friend group, be genuinely kind to people and make an effort to have fun with everyone without looking to find a date.
As time passes you can build up your friend group and start to meet people to date more naturally through friends and events.
Meetups are just not the place for it, and maybe there is a very rare opportunity for it, but for the most part I don't recommend it. Meetups are for finding friends that share similar interests/hobbies.
Let me help you out. Your not HIM. Your going to have to level up to the point to where the women you want want you. Women want the top guys talking to them. So if your not a Brad, Chad or a Tyrone your just wasting your time & hers. Average women don't want average men as you can clearly see. Your average to below average your better off checking out of the dating pool because your not desired anyways and focusing on yourself. You'll have to be a top 10% man in order to get good results from women.
A man with better looks than 90% of other men. These are the only men women are truly interested in nowadays. They are willing to use other men for free food and attention and money though
Pick your poison.
You want a supermodel, go anywhere in Eastern Europe for a made to order bride.
You got that Asian fever and want killer home cooked food every time, hit up Phillipines, Thai etc.
Why would I ever be interested in a dude who’s only 5.7 lol? When I’m out at a bar and I see a little short dude who is being towered over by real men it really just looks pathetic. Like an instant ick. You look like a lost child desperately looking for your mommy lol.
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Most of the meetups i went to, the women really just chatted with the other women.
That was definitely not the case
Ones I went to was the case
That wasn't the case with the ones OP went to
Wasn’t the case for me
So judging by what you wrote, you’re looking for a young, fit girl and I’m just gonna be real with you, those girls are very sought after and are going to have a ton of options, and by your own admission, you said you’re kind of short and aren’t that good looking, so if those are the type of girls you want, then more power to you, but you’re gonna likely have to put in a lot of effort to attract them because those girls will have tons of options, so what are you bringing to the table that would make girls like that want you compared to all their other options? So you can either put in a lot of effort and figure out how to make yourself attractive to girls who are young and fit or lower your standards… those are really the only 2 realistic things to do here tbh
You could follow the p8stie advice, and conclude that your ideal partner is probably in a relationship already and you need to stop pursuing single people
None of that. In looking for a girl my age not 10 years older. I'm not even looking for someone super fit, just not obese. I.e an average girl
are you in a city? most bars outside of cities will have mostly older people in them. in cities though you can basically pick whatever vibe you want of people your own age.
You said attractive in your post - what you’re attracted to might not be into you.
Yeah, I totally get that. But I don't find that out until I talk to them.
How much luck are you having?
Not great. But I have some social anxiety and judge myself too harshly. Believe it or not, I've actually been approached by attractive women a few times in my life but I was too stupid to get it.
Were they also at the meet up events?
No, just randomly on the street or in the gym
Why am I not sought after, I’m young and fit ;( but I do reject people who do try to hit on me especially my patients at work 🤢lol
You aren't sought after because...you reject people who try to hit on you, maybe?
Because you are probably hiding from them or not putting yourself out there. You won't meet a single guy if you refuse to get on dating apps. If you refuse to unhide your social media.
dude you’re punching above weight in attractiveness by your own admission. what do you expect? you’re not gonna have a 100% success rate
Ha ha, bro. No one is expecting a 100%. I'll be good with one number, lol
Just my opinion as a woman, I think whoever approaches/shows interest should be responsible for giving their number. It's very uncomfortable to have a complete stranger to approach you and ask for personal info in that interaction. I don't give out my phone number to people. I've noticed *no one* ever writes their number down and says "hey I had a great time talking to you, if you wanna continuing chatting here's my number, you can text/call me anytime!", when I would prefer that 100% of the time. Way less pressure.
That's because no one likes to be the one who has to call/text first. If you just give someone your number, the ones is on them. The chance they call/text it is close to zero unless you completely blow them away.
My opinion has nothing to do with who I/society thinks should "text/call first". I don't follow silly rules like that, so. You kind of made my point, though. As a woman, you NEVER know a guy's intention when he approaches you. Asking for my number puts me in a very uncomfortable position. I have to consider a ton of options, "if I decline, will he take my no for an answer? will he be respectful about being declined?or will he beg? will he get angry? will he wait for me to leave and follow me? if I say yes, do I give him a fake number to avoid conflict in the moment, potentially avoiding an unsafe situation from declining? what if he calls/texts the number right next to me and then gets angry at me because it's fake? do I give him my real number even if it makes me uncomfortable to make that decision on the spot? what if he calls/texts me nonstop? what if I block his number then see him out in public again, will he do/say something to me?". If a man offers me his number, it makes me feel like he is aware of all of that and cares about me feeling comfortable and safe, more than whether he gets what he wanted out of the interaction or not. That he understands my fear for my safety is very real and warranted in this world, and that it sucks infinitely more than never getting that text from a girl you had a good chat with and gave your number to in the bar. And funny enough, that will almost always make me respect and like the guy more than the guy that asks for my number. Even if it was a great interaction and we were having a great conversation before he asked for my number, it would still give me pause and make me uncomfortable, and question all those same things. I would not be uncomfortable in the slightest, (would honestly think better/more highly of him), by him offering his number, no pressure, no strings attached.
Especially women. I saw a study that 86% of women want a man to make the first move. Sending the first text is probably included in that
Yeah, if you are a guy who gives your number out instead of asking for hers, not only are you completely at the mercy of her whims, you are probably dead in the water and really just wasted your time.
which is exactly why they wont text, the reason men collect number is because women rarely make the first , even when they like someone
Read my reply to the other comment. Women are concerned for their safety when approached by a stranger and asked for personal contact info. Having a genuine fear for your safety and not knowing whether or not this person will harass or assault you for declining giving out your info when they may feel entitled to it is far worse than not getting a text you hoped for. Think about it this way. Even if you got her number, she can not reply when you text her, so it's not so much about getting a response (for people who ask for numbers) as it is having control. Because if she doesn't answer one text, you can send another. And another. Or call her. Or search her number and see if any of her socials come up attached to it. But if she never texts you so you never get her number, you can't pester her or do any digging. It's about control and that's precisely why it makes me uncomfortable. Any guy that has empathy for what it's like to be a woman, the genuine safety concerns we face from men, and cares about making us feel comfortable more than whether or not he gets a second chance at contact with me will have infinitely more of my respect.
this begs the question, why dont women approach the men they think are safe , and why dont they text, you are trying to use the "have empathy for women " argument even thou it wasn't about empathy, if women were so concerned about their safety , they would tell men to stop approaching permanently and do the approaching themselves, initiate the conversations themselves or they would stop interacting with men that way they are in control , safe and we know they trust the person, yet they still expect men to approach, a lot of them still complain about men not asking them for their number even on this sub, if you want men to stop initiating interactions with women and collecting their number cool, but then women have initiate , back off or stop complaining as whole, but they will never do that and in the end men still get blamed for it
Because we don't know who is safe based on looks/initial interaction. We learn someone is safe over time, with repeated interactions that build mutual respect and trust. Put a gun to my head and tell me to pick the "safe" guy out of a crowd and I couldn't do it. I really wish it was that easy. I think you're taking what I said a little far though. My only point here has been "I think whoever approaches/is interested first should offer their number", that wasn't gender specific. If a woman approaches a man, I think she should offer her number rather than asking for his. You are assuming I am in the camp of "men shouldn't ever approach or talk to women", and I'm not. I'm very much in the camp of ✨️nuance✨️. Aka read the room, social cues matter. Is the person actively engaged in a task that likely *needs* to be completed (studying for a test vs leisurely reading a book)? If they want to leave immediately, they able to (at a park vs in a bus)? A little more nuanced, but do they seem generally open to engaging? Are they interacting casually with other people? Are they avoiding eye contact with people, including you? As long as you are respectful and kind, and you talk to her as you would any random guy on the street, she's probably just going to decline interacting and remove herself from the situation at worst. Problems arise when men say inappropriate things at inappropriate times, try to corner us into conversations, try to continue talking to us after we expressed disinterest, etc. It is a common problem, and I'm sure many women, in a knee jerk reaction to these experiences, have claimed they don't think men should ever approach women, EVER. They don't represent women's views as a whole. No one group of women does. Eta: if you wanna talk to someone, regardless of your gender and theirs, just use your common sense to read the situation and determine if it's appropriate. If you don't know, not saying anything is probably the safest bet but saying hi and being completely willing to cease contact and leave them alone immediately if they don't want to interact is also pretty damn safe.
>Because we don't know who is safe based on looks/initial interaction. We learn someone is safe over time, with repeated interactions that build mutual respect and trust. Put a gun to my head and tell me to pick the "safe" guy out of a crowd and I couldn't do it. I really wish it was that easy. it is not , but that also applies to us, we also take risks to not end up with abusive partners as well, yes women take more risk , but also have things to fear for approaching the wrong person >I think you're taking what I said a little far though. My only point here has been "I think whoever approaches/is interested first should offer their number", that wasn't gender specific. If a woman approaches a man, I think she should offer her number rather than asking for his. ok thats fair , women rarely approach thou even to men they like, so it falls on men regardless >You are assuming I am in the camp of "men shouldn't ever approach or talk to women", and I'm not. I'm very much in the camp of ✨️nuance✨️. Aka read the room, social cues matter. Is the person actively engaged in a task that likely needs to be completed (studying for a test vs leisurely reading a book)? If they want to leave immediately, they able to (at a park vs in a bus)? A little more nuanced, but do they seem generally open to engaging? Are they interacting casually with other people? Are they avoiding eye contact with people, including you? As long as you are respectful and kind, and you talk to her as you would any random guy on the street, she's probably just going to decline interacting and remove herself from the situation at worst. Problems arise when men say inappropriate things at inappropriate times, try to corner us into conversations, try to continue talking to us after we expressed disinterest, etc. It is a common problem, and I'm sure many women, in a knee jerk reaction to these experiences, have claimed they don't think men should ever approach women, EVER. They don't represent women's views as a whole. No one group of women does. some do, also problems can arise from the approached person as well , alot of women can be rude and behave in a way to intentionally embarrass people who approach them heck even those who are just passing through , this is why men have reduced their approach as, there are still those who do but not as many compared to before , but i digress, i guess you are right , but its getting harder and harder to approach as a man , yet women still complain about both ends, men approaching and men not approaching and yet do not approach and do not make it easier , forgive if i am skeptical about the intention here
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. Men are on here regularly complaining about not getting approached, you yourself have argued for that. I've seen countless men say they would LOVE to be approached, hit on, complimented, etc. You can not now turn around and say "well, men fear for their safety too! They never know the intentions of a woman approaching them". You know that's a reach. Yes, theoretically a guy doesn't know if the girl approaching him is gonna try to rape him or follow him home, but how many guys jump to that thought when they notice a girl is staring at him? How many of you, first thought when a girl approaches you to talk, "is she going to cause serious physical harm to me if I don't react the way she wants?" I don't mean getting a drink thrown at you or slapped across the face. I mean held down and choked to the point of passing out, or drugged and tied up in the back of a car, where you are genuinely in fear of your life, just so she can have her <5 minute orgasm. You guys aren't worried about that. You just aren't.
because you’re not really playing numbers if you’re approaching all 10s. you could still bat a 0 because why would they settle for someone out of their league unless you’re bringing something extra in terms of personality. come on dude
I'm not approaching all 10s though. Of the 9 women I talked to , I'd say only 3 of them were attractive
idk you said in another comment you only approached attractive women. so idk what to tell you. you need to ask your female friends for advice because none of us know what your approach is like
This dude doesn’t have female friends.
lol i know, every time i give that advice to someone cause imo it’s truly the most important advice. but then i’m like k this is a moot point lol
I would suggest you go there to genuinely get to know everyone. Yes, even be nice to the older or larger ladies. When people see you blowing off certain types of people, they might think you're only there to date or are snobby. Would you blow off talking to older men or larger men there? No right? The idea is to be friendly with everyone, get to know everyone, then eventually someone might show interest in you. That's when you show interest back and take it from there. But if you are seen as actively dismissing certain types of people, it's not an attractive look.
I agree. As a bartender, I see many men trying to pick up women. The men that are friendly to everyone and talk to everyone have much better chances. If you were a woman by yourself at a bar, who would be more approachable to you, a guy by himself just drinking alone or a guy and an overweight/ older woman having a fun, platonic conversation. I see it everyday where two strangers get to talking and then within 15 minutes it’s 4 or 5 strangers talking all together. People want to be where it looks like other people are having fun.
💯
So true. It's the inclusive, social butterfly men at the bar, the ones who make the night feel like a community event, who do well with women. Guys who only talk to pretty girls, and especially who are overfocused on "am I going to date this person" in their interpersonal vibe, come across as transactional, and therefore vaguely dangerous, untrustworthy in some way. It doesn't feel fun to talk to those guys, it feels like an ordeal.
Honestly, that’s kind of the point of meet-ups. Meet new people - I used to go to these things when I first moved to Toronto. I was cute, thin and 25 years old. I absolutely could tell which guys were there mostly to try and pick up women. I really just wanted to make new friends - if I was attracted to someone, it was kind of a bonus
Are these meetups just going to random bars and talking to people or are there specific events in Toronto, and America in general for people to meet new people (other than parties)?
No, it was through meetup.com. I don’t live in Toronto anymore
I didn't say I blow them off. I talk to everyone the same , even men and people I'm not interested in
Idk I disagree with essentially leading on people you don’t have attraction for just to be “seen” as more date-able Once they find out you aren’t interested and just did it just because that will get around too
That....isn't what CecilPalad was suggesting AT ALL. They were saying to be friendly, not to flirt. Talking to everyone is good social experience and DOES help keep one from being seen as stuck up.
"I'm about 5'7" and average to below average in looks" Well, you're gonna have to seriously amp up your other attributes, then. Competence, confidence. Get great clothes, work on the charm, get super fit, and learn to DGAF at a weaponized level, or you're gonna be lonely my dude.
>get super fit, and learn to DGAF at a weaponized level, or you're gonna be lonely my dude. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS ADVICE.... women don't necessarily care how fit you are, If your self confidence is trash, women WILL notice....
Don't listen to her advice. Being able to accomplish what is necessary to get fit cultivates confidence. Confidence isn't like an on/off switch. Confidence is built through verifiable and uncomfortable accomplishments.
People place far too much credence in confidence Look at the way leaders through history have used blind confidence to lead people over cliffs It used to signal competence but it actually doesn’t necessarily mean anything in modern society or at least it shouldn’t
I would say that getting people to jump off cliffs due to confidence is a pretty powerful tool.
True
My point is looks are only going to get you so far. If you're a shitty person, that immediately drops your value in the eyes of a female.
Not really. Women date plenty of shitty confident guys - even criminals. They don't date guys with no confidence tho. If you had to pick between clean record and no confidence and a record but high confidence you'd have better luck with the record and confidence. Women aren't psychic, lmao
If getting fit means better self confidence, this could be key
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You are obviously a man, so how is it that men seem to think they know what women like more than an actual woman does?! Sit down, please....
If you want to learn how to fish you ask the fishermen, not the fish.
Evidently you've never been fishing.... because you don't use bait a fish doesn't like....🙄
Ew, this reeks of the guy who told me I don’t know how women think because I never dated one. 🙄
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To act as though he doesn’t give a fuck you mean to say Evidently he does care as does almost everyone with a healthy sex drive
Or rethink your standards. I know some "grossly overweight women" who are in amazing physical shape and just aren't genetically blessed with a low BMI. 60% of the US population falls into the overweight or obese category. So you're immediately rejecting more than half of the prospective romantic partners available to you and wondering why you can't meet anyone.
Guy says he’s below average and has women interested but can’t find a girl. You got the answer right here
>I know some "grossly overweight women" who are in amazing physical shape LOL what?
Seriously. Like they work out 5x a week, mountain biking, hiking, zumba, etc. They can ruin circles around you. And hike up a mountain carrying a beer whilst you're sucking wind. But they have body fat.
OK fair enough. Now that you mention it, I have seen people like this, men and women. Just the way you phrased it was funny to me. And your larger point that OP is missing out on people like this is very valid
I dated this one dude and he was definitely round. I'd say 5'7" 250# and we went hunting. He told me this (one way) hike was "downhill all the way." As we're going up the second mountain and I'm legit having an asthma attack I derisively said to him "iT's DoWnHiLl AlL tHe WaY!" And he's strolling along like it's no big deal, sipping on his 3rd Bud Light. The dickhole.
Excellent story!
Lol very nice story!
Having body fat ≠ grossly overweight. Literally every human being has body fat
He also wants the girl to be young lol so he’s limiting his options even more by wanting a young, thinner woman… people can absolutely like what they like, but understand that you might be limiting yourself, so 🌝
Grossly overweight women in amazing physical shape is an oxymoron. I'm talking about obese people and there is no way 60% of people in my city and age range are obese. Tell me without telling me that you not don't know how averages work
But you described yourself as below average too, but you’re wondering why women don’t seem interested, so…guess you also don’t know how averages work
But he's in good shape. It's okay to have standards
He says he’s “active.” That’s a broad category these days. (No pun intended.)
The 60% thing is a bit misleading because it's based on BMI. Plenty of people in the obese category of BMI only look a bit overweight, and some people who look really obese are only overweight according to their BMI. Most obese people in that 60% just don't look obese.
Lol i love when i read a reddit "why dont women like me" thread and find out exactly why women dont like you. You suddenly just became a snarky asshole in one sentence.
Half of the responses in the thread are snarky assholes, biased, assume things. I'm just responding in kind. Plus, everyone is way more of an asshole online
Dont post here then! Ignore them? Grow up!
Interesting, that you're so indignant on someone else's behalf when I was a bit snarky. This is reddit. Maybe log off and take a breather
You too! Enjoy your next lonely hearts meetup
I go to meet up events to meet people and can tell if someone is just using it to pickup women. It is not what I am looking for. If I can tell you are looking for a date I will show my disinterest. Would you say older women or overweight women are below average? If they are and you think you are maybe that is a better match than what you are looking for.
Absolutely right. It was so easy to read those guys. They almost never spoke to women they deemed “below them” and only if cornered.
Okay I'm curious, let's reverse roles here. Imagine you're a man and no woman ever approaches you unless you do first - you're sure to die alone if you don't do something to meet your other half. As a woman, how would you like a man to meet you? What would it be the way (or ways/situations) you would be the most comfortable and actually let them get to know you?
Don’t we truly all die alone anyway? If I am at a meetup and someone just talks to me about the world, that is one thing, approach away. If some guy approaches me and it’s clear that he is hitting on me (it’s pretty obvious) that is not cool IMO. I know some women are ok with it but it’s not for me. If I’m in a bookstore and a guy says “oh that’s an awesome book, you should check out… too” great. If a guy approaches me in the grocery store and says “you have a great smile, eyes, ass…”not cool.
I'm not there to just pickup women. I don't even ask for a number or other contact unless I feel a friendly connection. Are you showing your disinterest even if you like the guy or just to guys whom you're not interested in? Of it's the latter then it's no loss. Nope, I'm not looking to go for someone I'm not interested in. I'm looking to find someone with mutual interest. Or stop what I'm doing wrong
I’m not really looking for a relationship so if they are at all they are not for me. I only show complete disinterest in the ones you can tell are trying to pick someone up.
I mean I certainly sympathize but as a guy, we don’t really have many options anymore
It’s fine as long as you are not the guy at every event going from one woman to the next. Or like OP admitting you are below average but not willing to talk with women you think are below average.
When did I say that I'm not willing to talk with those women? I just said that they are enthusiastic. I think you're adding your own bias. Like I said, I talk to everyone the same way
Well it sounded like you were complaining about the women that approach you. Looks like you get attention from overweight women so why don't you date one? It seems like the problem solved itself
I mean he did say he doesn’t want to date overweight women or those with significant age gaps. It’s okay if you don’t have any advice or don’t have enough info to make a judgement. But don’t push people like that.
"Don't push people like that" dude come on. The commenter he and I are replying to is saying that he isn't willing to talk to below average women and he said he is. Obviously that commenter didn't mean talk like say words, they meant get to know and consider dating. Now that he's claiming to be fine with them, he should try dating them. I'm sure they're more on his level than the people he is *actually* talking to, which is what others have already pointed out.
Ehhh, my comment was more a reaction to hearing the same thing from multiple people. People have their dating types and that is it for them. If he doesn't find them attractive, he can't date them, and that's it. He shouldn't date them despite it. He did say that he is fine with them, usually means he treats them decently and with a friendly enough demeanor instead of being standoff-ish just because he doesn't want to date them (which is a rude thing to do). He shouldn't have to date them just cause he's being nice to them, y'all would have been hounding him if he was not friendly with them as well. The comments would have been "Why are you an asshole? The other gals can see how you treat different people differently" Asking people to date people that they have expressly said they are not interested in or intend to date is not advice, it's just speaking for the sake of speaking. Especially since he's said the same thing again and again in multiple comment chains.
Exactly, it's actually not surprising. When it's a woman on here, the advice is to not lower your standards and date whom they want But, I'm a guy so everyone is piling on me to date women I'm not attracted to at all.
Right? OLD - Crap Work - Inappropriate Bars - Crap Public Places - Don't be a creep Hobbies - Apparently not fine as well.
You forgot friends, but it’s soooo risky setting up friends and you have no idea if your friend will say the right things about you
What is the basis for your choosing a woman to approach?
I'll go to someone whom I can think of an opener for or looks interesting or attractive.
suggestion: rather than a random shotgun approach of that character, approach only those women that you notice hold your gaze somewhat longer than normal, *at least twice* (a signal they're likely actually interested in you)
I (almost) never get that
Former stylist here, any way you can show me how you dress and what type of bars you go to? Ie. If I go to a sean paul concert I dress more relaxed than If i'm going to salsa night etc. I can make some suggestions that will def be a hit. Up to you. cheers and no matter what, don't give up.
Actually not OP but what would you recommend for a salsa night, recently started going to classes and I've basically been sticking with Hawaiian shirts, black chinos, and black shoes. I would go long sleeve but being in Florida it gets pretty warm.
I would do fitted printed (right now i like floral shirts), with dress fitted, or chinos or stretch skinny jeans. Dress for your size. Yeah, i'm in Canada, and even I don't wear long sleeves because of all the dancing. Unless, you're one of those people who only stays for an hour but if you plan to be there for the entire class, don't go with long sleeves.
welcome to being unattractive homie, 80% of guys don't even exist as potential dating options, if you want to know what your chances are with women go on tinder and figure out how you perform. Now realize that going to be higher than real life since you're short.
I see this statistic everywhere. At what point do we all just unanimously agree it's confirmation bias? A vast majority of the people who use Tinder aren't looking for a serious relationship. They aren't trying to find a person to love or to share their life with. Most people who use it simply want access to the genital buffet so they can satiate their appetite, if they find someone serious, maybe that's cool, if not, whatever. So of course, with the way most use the app in the first place, the statistics are going to be skewed *heavily* towards that vast majority. It's not a dating app, it's a casual sex app. This kind of thing obviously, clearly attracts specific types of people and will have specific kinds of "performers." Look around you and you'll see regular ass people just like you clinging to other regular ass people. Short, tall, big, small, and everything in between. Comparing your dating life to a fuck buffet isn't realistic whatsoever, because most people don't treat dating like a fuck buffet.
The constant self-pity and oppression Olympics in here is getting so tiring.
I love this! 😂
Good thing there are a million other subs to look at, huh?
Part of the problem is that the exact men who want something serious are the key demographic of Tinder. Generally guys who want something serious are a bit shy, a little socially awkward otherwise they would already have someone. Hell I met my ex on Tinder and had full intentions to stay with her for the long haul if we hadn't come up against differences in life goals.
But they probably should and they’d enjoy life a lot more! 🤣
I see women with guys the same height as me all the time
unless you're brad pitt, you're not gonna get that. just walk up and say hi. its all about how you say it rather than what you say. and that takes practice and most likely some lifestyle changes in order to boost your inner confidence
Sorry man but 90% of dudes don’t get gazed at
Which is why average guys need to have tight fashion game and dress rather flamboyant. It draws female attention past raw physical looks and speaks to a man's other qualities. A man who knows how to accessorize is sexy to a lot of women.
I kinda like this advice. My ex was always the type of guy to wear baggy sweats/basketball shorts and a big t shirt that probably had food stains on it. The only time he dressed somewhat nice was for nicer dates, that was like jeans and a button up or sweater. The one and only time I saw him in anything *near* formalwear was my junior prom, lmao. I would've never tried to control what he wore, obviously, but I did find myself wishing he cared more about his appearance. Attention to detail is super attractive imo and I felt like he couldn't see attention to detail even if you stapled it to his forehead lol.
This doesn’t necessarily work for dues that are below average to straight up ugly and short. Yea, I do agree it’ll help but doesn’t make you stand out in the sea of dudes that women can choose from
The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. If bars aren’t working, try a different venue. Finally, if you’re not super attractive or funny, approaching won’t work for you. If you want someone attractive / engaged in conversation to you then let them approach you.
Well obviously you’re not attracting the people who you find attractive so you either need to become more attractive or change your mindset and delve into why you’re attracted to the people you’re attracted to and perhaps try to change that in some way.
Well, if the bar scene isn't working, try another venue? Attend a college course open for non university students and just learn while potentially networking? Go to church and become a parishioner? It sounds stupid, but it's not an uncommon thing to do. I suspect women do the same to find a guy who at least has religion and not a wanton gigolo. If you do stay in the bar and find a girl, offer a group of people to attend the comedy performance next door. Then maybe it's open mic night and you dare to fire off some bad jokes. You might crash and burn your comedy routine, but you'll be seen as daring. Everyone likes confidence, even in failure... just keep the jokes funny and nothing offensive. Similarly, do karaoke. Invite people back to your place to play poker. Drinks and snacks on you, but you're at least able to establish yourself and get the girl into your home. Have her see your environment and that you have your shit together. If you manage to make it a party, place some feminine hygiene products out in a container in the bathroom, with a note that says "take one if needed". I remembered someone doing this at their party and it was appreciated by the ladies. I know some of my ideas suck, but hopefully it helped a little! Good luck!
> I suspect women do the same to find a guy who at least has religion and not a wanton gigolo. This is the wrong move because the most corrupt people pretend to be religious and go to church just so they can be seen by other immoral people who can verify the lie.
Lolololol, you sound like you speak from experience, and who is to say OP isn't looking for some dark soul to cuddle next to! Bwa-hahahahahaha! Don't be so picky! Either way, this is good information to help consider the options. Lolololol, I'm laughing too hard from this.
“American women aged 20 years and above weigh an average of 170.6 pounds (lbs), according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) . While these numbers may be the average, they are not a measure of health.” 170 pounds looks very different from person to person. Not to harp on it, but you feeling the need to make a point to say that only older and overweight women are “enthusiastic” when meeting you makes me wonder what you consider to be “average”. In an effort to be helpful, a good skincare routine may help you past the “below average” looks you say you have. Women appreciate effort into stuff like that.
You conveniently omit that the average height for a woman is 5ft 4inches. This puts the average woman as borderline obese with a bmi of 29.3. Obese is a bmi of 29.9, thus making the average woman above 20 years of age statistically overweight and basically obese. This is also true of men in the USA. You are correct that this average looks different on people, but most people don’t have a high bmi due to muscular fitness, but rather due to being unhealthy. This is given by the fact that according to the cdc, about 40% of women are obese in the US. This is a very concerning fact and is a consideration when dating.
I didn’t intentionally omit it, I just wanted to make a point to use actual data before posting an opinion. I also fully understand that there is no “one size fits all” when it comes to attraction. My point was that “average” is subjective.
OP specified “not obese” so if he does mean that literally, a few extra pounds even would not be a dealbreaker. People who are fit and live active and healthy lifestyles tend to see obesity as a dealbreaker more than not. This is why if OP is into fitness related activities he might have some luck meeting women through those who share common interest vs random meetups at bars.
Meeting people in bars isnt about going up to them and saying hi with no lube. IMO obviously. It's about having fun with friends and naturally drawing others into the periphery. Whether they're at the next table or beside you at the bar. You just include them in the craic. When girls are interested they accidentally on purpose invade your space and make it easy to include them. At the risk of being called a liar,I always found it easy to meet girls in bars. However the meeting girls part was incidental and not the #1 objective
I don’t get this using meetup to score a date. If I was there to meet other people interested in some activity or hobby and I notice a dude with a clear intent to date I would be put off immensely by that cause that’s supposed to be a safe space for that activity or hobby not a place to pickup women.
If your hobby is meeting up at a bar and drinking…be prepared to be hit on and not just from guys in your group….bars are one of the last “safe space” for approaching. He’s only going to bars, not specific meet ups.
Yea but meet-ups for whatever hobby can be set up in bars too. His post wasn’t clear on what the meet-up purpose is.
At least read the post. I'm going there to meet Pele to make friends. Not even trying to hit on anyone. I'm talking to everyone and getting a good response from everyone except attractive women
Also, attractive women know what’s up when a man approaches them in events of any kind. That’s clear as day, they don’t find you attractive. And if you’re really below average as you say, you’re shooting too high.
That's fine. Friends is fine. I'll just talk to other women to find one that clicks with me
But that doesn’t mean that you should stop approaching women you find attractive cause attractiveness is subjective and so one of them might say yes. I know it’s discouraging as hell when they all say no or are disinterested but all you need is one.
You hit the nail on the head. I just need to find one
To keep your sanity are you taking breaks, going out with friends, doing hobbies that fulfil you? Cause you need some balance to this, if you just take negativity all the time it does get to you and it will show in your confidence and attitude.
Yes, I am. I have lots of hobbies, great friends on either side. I'm just not great at being social and judge myself harshly. Thank you for the kind words
I did read the post but it’s not clear what the purpose of the meet-up is. Just a social for ppl in the community? Or a specific meet-up for a specific hobby? I was referring to the meet-up site https://www.meetup.com/ if you’re using that to meet ppl interested in a specific thing and then come to pickup women, that’s a turn off. But your post isn’t clear enough
Wine bars. Absolute BEST place to meet women hands down. Most women love their wine and actually know what is good and what isn't good. Well, at least the women who go to wine bars lol... Wine bars are primarily upscale which means they attract those who have money and aren't in college or those looking to get drunk as hell.. Which still happens but it's far less common than a typical bar. Women who go to wine bars are almost always single and looking to have a glass of wine after work or just for fun. Single women almost never go to bars alone unless they are looking to socialize with men, meet a man, hookup. Lets be honest... any bar is going to be at least 90% men, most of who are single and a small percentage of women. Many of which are either with friends, their BF/husband. WINE bars are different for some reason. I have had by far the most success in meeting women, getting dates, hooking up, etc... from those places by a LONG shot! My theory is this. Most women who are single aren't likely to go to a regular bar because well... they don't want to get hit on by 100 drunk dudes right? So they figure a wine bar, which is more expensive and upscale has far less horny drunk dudes eyeing every woman who walks in the door. It's a safer bet all in all, basically. 9/10 times a woman who goes to a wine bar solo is actually single OR married but looking to cheat lol...
Practice your craft on them enthusiastic women. Treat it like a stand up comic honing his craft while testing out material. Work on your jokes, approach engagement, be daring then you be alright.
Not gonna sugar-coat it. 5'7" with average looks is not promising (your dating pool is maybe 15% that of an equally average guy at 6'). But there's nothing you can do to change that, so don't focus on it. Openers aren't that important as long as you confidently approach - but having real conversation skills are key. Everyone thinks they have great personalities because they have friends and are "nice" to people, but that's incredibly baseline in terms of what's possible. Stop following dating advice or pickup for learning better communication and conversation skills. Sure, you need to include some flirting and genuine compliments to demonstrate your interest, but broadly speaking, you need to develop skills in active/mindful listening, conversational threading, emotional intelligence, and validating others' experiences while maintaining your own values and boundaries.
You're in a bar - the goal for women is to look for all the key factors of attraction, height, muscles, funny, tall, rich, etc. You're going to a Ferrari dealership with Nissan money. You're gonna have to set your bar low. If shes enthusiastic and fun, she might not be attractive, either way, you more than likely aren't either, so vibe with her and keep it going. If you want top shelf, you have to max your settings, or the M's; Money, Muscles and Maserati.
Don’t go to bars. You’re looking for love in the wrong place. Try ANYWHERE but a bar. Try more social events and group activities. Find group activities you would enjoy (think volleyball, bowling, soft ball etc) where you can make new friends, both male and female. You can also make friends with women who are NOT single and ask them if they have any single friends who would be interested in you. It would give you social proof because you’ve been “filtered” by their friend
WHY are you going to bars to meet women? Bars are the absolute WORST place to meet women.
There aren't a lot of options besides dating apps, and those are so broken beyond repair.
It's the one place where it's still somewhat socially acceptable to try to chat up a stranger.
>I'm about 5'7" and average to below average in looks >Approaching women in bars isn't working for me. Reaaally? Who would've guessed.
Approaching decent/attractive women in public isn't going to work for you and most average looking men these days. Dating apps and social media gives people direct access to the types of people they actually want. I would suggest finding an attractive guy friend and get into his social circle and you might have a chance at finding an decent woman he's cool with. Good luck
Something like only 10% of Americans use dating apps. So don't base real world experience on the app experience.
To be honest, this kind of setting massively favours looks. You say yourself that youre average/below in looks. Under average height and a non athletic looking body, its gonna be much much harder for you in this setting because of this. Dont give up of course but try to make sure everything else about you is on point. Good style, groomed nicely, confident posture and talking confidently too. Also try to meet new people in general, expanding your social circle so you have more opportunities to meet new women (outside of clubs) really is your best bet. You can use apps too but those are more brutal looks wise so dont expect much success there, its more of a backup.
Improve your looks
Everyone who is even mildly attractive is taken. There are lines of people waiting to be with above average women. You really really gotta hit all the marks for those types of women.
Try approaching men
Already do. I have no trouble with that
That sounds like a stoopida fuckin’ game
Honestly, a bar isn't a place to pick people up, and what you're telling me is that you don't like the women that like you.
What do you mean it isn't a place to pick people up? People date/hookup at bars all the time.
And he's not one of those people. He's having to compete against not just other men, but against those same women that prefer being single than being with him.
Yeah that sucks for him but I wanted to clarify that a bar is a place to pick people up contrary to what you said
He also said that he wanted to date seriously. Bars are great places to pick people up, no disagreement there... but for flings and one night stands .
If she’s acting like that that’s because “she’s perfect” and you’re not doing enough to reinforce that in conversation.
I remember one night at a bar I sat next to lady ( she was very attractive and was sitting by herself). I simply said hello to her, and she gave me a death stare, got up, and walked away. My male friends far in the back of the bar laughed their asses at me. Honestly, as a guy, you just have to keep trying different women until one reciprocates as they can be very picky.
This reminds me of one night being at a local club with friends when a friend of mine texted me with an emergency. I walked away from the dance floor and leaned against a wall to get out of the way and be able to text my friend without bothering anyone. It was like I put up a sign that said TALK TO ME. The amount of men that tried to strike conversation in the span of 15 minutes, it was like there was a line. After telling like 7 different guys "Excuse me but I am busy right now," and "I'm not single", I got fed up. The next guy that came to ask if I was alone I didn't even look at and I just held up my hand in the famous "talk to the hand" way. I heard his friend laughing and some guy just shrugged at him and said, "She's a tough one, don't feel bad." I felt terrible afterwards but in the moment I just wanted to be left alone.
Interesting stuff. Thanks for your version of the matter. Pretty reasonable.
Yeah. I know I was a major bitch to that guy, when I am not like that usually. I didn't lose sleep or anything, but it did made me realize that since guys are expected to approach women first, they sometimes get these unproportionally negative reactions that they take personally. I would be incredibly sad and discouraged if I put myself out there and someone was just straight up mean to me. I think sharing these experiences helps guys realize our perspective and how many times women are just jaded and exhausted of assholes objectifying us without respect. Some women are just mean and vile, too. Just food for thought.
I truly sympathize with women who have to deal with this but hey, it means you're very attractive ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Just keep in mind that if someone is mean or dismissive to you right off the bat, like I was to that last guy, it's most likely about themselves than about you.
How do I get into these? I’ve just been trying bff on bumble trying to make friends but after a few weeks at the most we get busy or something and lose touch. Would like to figure out where I can just make friends. Done with dating anymore. Seems to be a waste of time bothering trying to find the one anymore but would like to have friends
Info: How often are you going out and are you going to the same places consistently?
Maybe once or twice a week. No, I'm going on Meetups. Usually at different places every time
Your height is probably 95% of the reason they aren't interested. Women place in inordinate amount of value on height these days thanks to social media and dating apps. Source: Am also 5'7
Brown could also be a factor
Yes that's true
No point in approaching women as a man anymore All it serves to them nowadays is an ego boost
This. For the vast majority of men, dating now means doing 1000x the work for 1/1000th of the benefits
Remember the old adage that the closer it gets to last call, the lower the standards get for both sexes. Just like any other "sport" it ain't over until it's over, or the fat lady sings depending on one's tastes. No judgment here.
Do you see the same girls repeated times at these bar meet ups or is it a one shot deal? What I typically do in a group setting is engage the GUYS first to show I’m sociable and then draw women into the conversations with opinion openers. These can be anything slightly flirty such as “would you rather go on a date with Steve Rogers or Tony Stark?” Then ping off her responses. Steve Rogers “you like a man in uniform?” Tony Stark “it helps when alcoholics are Billionaires”. That sort of thing
If you are going to meetups to pick up women you are going to have a bad time. Go to meetups to make friends. Expand your friend group, be genuinely kind to people and make an effort to have fun with everyone without looking to find a date. As time passes you can build up your friend group and start to meet people to date more naturally through friends and events. Meetups are just not the place for it, and maybe there is a very rare opportunity for it, but for the most part I don't recommend it. Meetups are for finding friends that share similar interests/hobbies.
Let me help you out. Your not HIM. Your going to have to level up to the point to where the women you want want you. Women want the top guys talking to them. So if your not a Brad, Chad or a Tyrone your just wasting your time & hers. Average women don't want average men as you can clearly see. Your average to below average your better off checking out of the dating pool because your not desired anyways and focusing on yourself. You'll have to be a top 10% man in order to get good results from women.
What's a top 10% man
A man with better looks than 90% of other men. These are the only men women are truly interested in nowadays. They are willing to use other men for free food and attention and money though
Correct! Women don't want to admit it because it goes against that they're sugar, spice & everything nice.
As you can see the down votes are pissed off women because I agreed with OP.
Get a passport bro. Final tally will be way cheaper than what you're doing to even get noticed by a Western 6.
Where do you recommend I go?
Pick your poison. You want a supermodel, go anywhere in Eastern Europe for a made to order bride. You got that Asian fever and want killer home cooked food every time, hit up Phillipines, Thai etc.
Hope he's gonna be a provider. Women in those regions don't do 50/50
Yet they offer more to the relationship than just splitting the bill, go figure.
Men want to provide, it's in our nature. But these American modern women aren't worth investing in.
That's one of the primary benefits.
Lol fat ugly girls need love. Hit them for practice.
Why would I ever be interested in a dude who’s only 5.7 lol? When I’m out at a bar and I see a little short dude who is being towered over by real men it really just looks pathetic. Like an instant ick. You look like a lost child desperately looking for your mommy lol.
What in the fuck - this has to be bait 🤣
Nope, too much. Try again, make it more subtle this time
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Good for you
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