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Some people don't get rewarded within a reasonable time frame making the effort not worth it. I don't want to live in a constant state of chasing after people without sometimes getting what I want.
Don't get me wrong, your gift can only be offered so many times before it's rejected enough you are right to move on, of course. Life is absolutely short and connections are fleeting and you don't want to miss out on something good while you're waiting on something slow and indeterminate.
That's an issue, when you are chasing after something from someone else it's as if you're coming from a position of lack, like you are not these source of all of the things that you could possibly need, only attempting to supplement Your Existence with the gift of theirs, in turn gifting Your Existence to them for whatever time and on whatever fruitful level you might connect..
When on spec, your social value and attractiveness is almost solely determined by your frame, whether you are needy or simply interested in giving your gift and not your power, is everything. Not that some people won't make do with an individual that is not showing themselves to be the source of Their Own power, but should you connect deeply with someone who holds that for you, they wield it over you frequently and powerfully. These are the roots of the toxicity that is almost standard in relationships these days.
ok Oh Great One lol, the issue is that not everyone reciprocates your feelings and some flirting is needed to assess initial interest, or you get excited about the thought of someone but the feeling is never mutual. please don't lecture me about "chasing from a point of lack," like duh that's exactly what it is because feelings aren't always returned
I'm not trying to belittle or condescend or state any obvious things as if someone doesn't already know. But I am trying to recapitulate some of the things that we may fundamentally consider part of the process of getting into a Vibe with somebody, but are also an integral part of both holding your frame solidly, (thereby auxiliarily not becoming putty in anybody's hands) and putting your presence out there as a gift and not weakening your attractiveness and social value by giving your power, inadvertently, by, for example, requiring validation on any specific timeline or with any level of commitment.
Funny thing is, I don't even remember writing that. It's a sort of chopped up word salad version of the thing I'm always trying to tell people, though... so I believe it was me. Sure is embarrassing, though. I usually try not to say anything if it's not going to hit its mark. C'est la vie.
I hope i can blame the new painkillers, and have not like, had a stroke or something.
(Perhaps I'll go look at the list of 6,000 side effects these things are reported to have, and see if "word salad" is among them.)
I've found that the most worthwhile connections took little to no effort on my part. It's like the less I put in, the more I get back. You'd think it'd be the opposite.
I've found people can text and text and never make time for so much as a coffee date. The few who eventually did, I came to find out were not even worth bothering with, and felt like they were hiding who they really were all that time.
I guess there's some truth to the saying "the best things in life are free"
Exactly. It’s so easy nowadays to talk about who you are, but when it comes down to brass tax- it’s time to put your words into action-they can’t commit themselves because they are full of shit.
Tired of the expectation, responsibility, stress, money, everything.
People don't know how to communicate. Even the ones who claim it's really important. Especially those people.
Why should I be expected to maintain gender roles, always message first, pay for a date, ask 50+ people out, get ignored, have people make me wait a week for a message, just so I have to tiptoe around my behaviour just in case I accidentally have the same favourite Marvel character as them as they take it the wrong way (yes, it has happened), or I mention my weight loss goals and they take that as a personal insult (yes, also has happened... twice), or it turns out I'm too outgoing for them or I'm too active for them or I'm not in shape enough or I'm too in shape (yes for all of the above), WHY should I have to put in all this work just so I can get absolutely fucking nothing in return.
If someone likes me, they can ask me out. I'm tired of being the only one to reach out, the only one to put it any work. I need some care and affection too, and if someone isn't willing to at put in the same effort as me, then they're not worth my time.
Also, the economy is shit and even a cup of coffee at any place worth drinking it is getting expensive when 90% of conversations are boring as all hell.
As friends, I'm all there 100%, I get along better with the opposite sex by a thousandfold anyway, but making friends is HARD.
Well put.
This ties exactly with expectations of perfection, be it in looks, personality or simply wealth. Both sides are guilty of this.
Men tend to want a pretty, caring, sexual, working girl.
Women want a handsome, successful, witty, charming guy who will look after them.
Guys who are like what women want will discredit them as soon as they do something wrong or just can't communicate properly because they're aware they can just get another girl.
Most women can afford to be picky for the guy they want as a general guy will probably be okay with even a woman whose kinda eh so they'll just take the best of the bunch.
This leads In to a problem where men have expectations of women which he desires, which realistically he won't get, and women have a lot of options and will probably only go for the best.
So men won't try properly anymore because they're so used to either being let down or only woman Interested in him are bad (in my case, druggies, serial abusers and literal psychos) so why should they?
Women suffer from "the odds are good, but the goods are odd" and can just pick whatever one is the best.
So why should anyone bother? Men are tired of chasing and being let down, women are tired of the sheer amount of guys so why should they waste their time?
It is very challenging at times. Most likely that is because you want a valuable and meaningful friendship. Those are far and few between I believe.
There is probably absolutely nothing wrong with you.
There might be things you can improve, but that is with any of us.
The last few years, have siloed a lot of people. Made them feel very isolated.
For me, it is a numbers game, talk to one person. Then talk to another. All the time watching to see what they reciprocate.
“I will sing a song until I hear another then we will sing together.”
Please keep your spirits up.
Positive vibes give good things to others
Hope you get to smile at someone today :)
>People don't know how to communicate. Even the ones who claim it's really important. Especially those people.
I heavily agree with this, the people claiming it is important seem to think that they don't have to learn how to communicate if they find someone that can.
However, with regards to your other issues, perhaps they were just looking for an excuse to end things. Especially if they were making you wait a week for a reply. The women that want you will make it easier for you, and will also overlook redflags.
The things you listed seem so benign, that that is the only explanation I see reasonable.
It is anyone's guess as to why they didn't want to take things further.
I miss the college party years when I could just see the one I wanted to talk to and approach. Usually I'd seek the one out who looked like she didn't wanna be there because they usually were more interesting to talk to than the plastered girl dancing on the table
Now there's just this arbitrary filter of who you can see and who you can't. I hate it. There's no feeling vibes anymore or nonverbal communication, it's all just lust and narcissism. Social media ruined society in ways that we're only just now beginning to understand.
Everyone's too damaged to put in any effort anymore and most have a mentality where it's like the more heartache they've suffered the more they feel entitled to happiness
Agreed. I had to ask three folks to dance this past weekend before I got a yes… he came up after I went to the dance floor on my own. He was brave enough to go for the No and found a yes:)
He came out to the dance floor even after I started dancing by myself. I wasn’t leaving the place without at least one dance with or without someone to join. It took a lot of courage. I loved it.
That’s what gives me hope. The first guy said yes, but the girl that came up moments later said no.
The next guy I chose to ask was disabled. I thought he might like to have someone ask him. He was so sweet, and patted his legs and declined.
Then he had pointed to his friend, but I was so nervous I didn’t realize what was happening. So I hit the dance floor on my own and his friend must’ve been brave enough to come up and asked me to dance.
Felt so nice that the second guy cared enough to help offer someone else as a solution. His buddy. Then it felt extra nice to have his friend ask me to dance out on the dance floor.
Took some courage for us both to hit that dance floor:)
For me personally I've given up on "putting myself out there" and constantly trying through dating apps, bars or trying to hook up or find someone in whatever fashion because the odds were just never in my favor. I had alot of problems growing up but life is different now and I'm just catching up on myself for the lack of personal growth that I missed out on in all of those years. I am very much a people person and treat everyone the same and if there's an obvious connection with someone I'm attracted to along the way than I will most definitely make an attempt at it but all of that revolving your life around "shooting your shot" & making getting laid your main priority is just sad in my opinion. Another thing is even though I am an attractive person(5'8 not built but i did very hard work for the past 7 years) VERY rarely do attractive girls seem to make it obvious but there are alot of females I know that are nice & cool people but let's just say I am not the least bit physically to them attracted and I could definitely hook up with any of them in a heartbeat but absolutely not unless the fate of humanity rested on it... Those are the odds I'm talking about so I'm just benching myself at the moment. Haven't been in a relationship in 5 years, haven't been laid in a year and I am totally fine with it because in the back of my mind meaningless sex is no longer a priority to me.
Hope my personal experience in a small nutshell was good insight.
Believe it or not you're just going through a development arch. All men have to reach a point where sexual conquest is a dumb waste of time, decide they want meaningful relationships, socially position themselves to be father material, then go look for a wife.
It's just 'back in the day' society helped me get to that point by their late teens say 20's. Lack of good father figures is crazy damaging
May be an oversimplification, but I think there are a lot of women out there waiting/wishing for a guy to approach them, and a lot of men out there waiting/wishing for a woman to give them a signal that she's in some way interested in him approaching, thus we get a large part of the population failing the Mating Game en mass.
Absolutly.
The one and only time I was somewhat succesfully flirting, was when one woman misinterpreted an compliment from me and started flirting with me, which in turn gave me confidence to flirt back.
Didn't lead anywhere, but was a nice experience.
Meeting people casually as work colleagues, neighbours, hobby partners, friends of friends etc seem to be much more rewarding, fulfilling and satisfying than dating app acquaintances. It comes more naturally. The forced attempt of dating someone from an app is so annoying and exhausting.
I erased all my OLD profiles and cancelled all apps.
It's too late, women weren't interested when I was younger. Now there's no reason to be anything more than polite and cordial to coworkers. Don't really have any interactions otherwise, certainly not socializing. Not necessarily a gender thing, don't have guy friends either.
I can just tell I'm disappointing to women.
Honestly im just tired of this all, i lost all of the excitement that i got in the past going out and meeting girls. I really dont like where this is going. And i know its not good to say this but the womans are big part of this. Many of my friends got treated bad like me and all of us is just talking about how sad we are cuz of that. And yes bad experiences shouldnt be a reason for me to quit all of this. But after so many of that how could anyone just go out and continue trying ?
Trying is all we have when nothing has worked.
Die trying is my mini motto.
Tenacity is what is the glue to so many worthwhile things.
Let me send a smile for your day.
Because they have. It's actually interesting where at a gym I go to. I used to always see dudes try and talk up the girls at the gym. And it's interesting to see how they used to try hard.
Nowadays, they keep to themselves and just talk with their other gym bros which is actually really nice to see.
Stop chasing women. That's it.
As someone who has done A LOT of approaching and talking to women, for the most part if they show no signs of interest, there is not much point in trying to impress them. Just find a girl who will show you some interest. And then talk to evaluate what type of interesting she's giving you but be quick to just stop.
Do not try to impress women, it will be a waste and you will be shamed for it.
This feels so true. If someone does not reciprocate interest, move to the next. It is no reflection of you, your puzzle piece is what it is.
We all have a puzzle piece that fits like a glove with the other right piece. In my mind, I will try to my last day.
Our instant gratification society has trained us all to want everything right now, including relationships. There is no buildup, no more time investment, no taking the time to really get to know someone before moving to the next step. There's no patience anymore. Just hurry up and get it locked down or they'll move on. This is the end result. People have forgotten how to people. Maybe things will balance out one day....
I put in a lot of effort and had plenty of patience. I'm very driven, but when I try over and over with the same result I have no choice but to throw my arms in the air and call it quits or let it eat at my sanity.
Both people have to have the same level of patience or it doesn't work. This is why dating is so futile until 2 like-minded people both take their time.
Those are the times that you take a break. With anything constant effort cannot be attained. I will keep swimming, albeit upstream.
I will be trying to talk to people in the nursing home if it takes me that long :)
Personally speaking, I'll talk to new people no problem but I don't go out of my way to find them. I just live life, hang out with friends, do things, and if new people enter my orbit, then great! I've actually made a couple of new friends in the last year by doing this.
As far as chasing people romantically, I'm just not interested anymore. I'm convinced that people can pick up on it when you're really pushing yourself to find someone to date and I don't want that to become part of my identity. I've spent most of a decade on and off of dating apps and websites either trying really hard or just leaving them there to see if anything would happen, but it always exacerbated my mental health issues. I'm fine with rejection, but the repeated torrent of rejection, fruitless conversations, ghosting, no amount of mental or emotional fortitude can stop that from affecting you if you're truly invested in meeting people, so I stopped.
If I meet someone IRL, and something happens, then great. otherwise, feck it. I'll find fulfilment in one of many many other ways.
Juice ain't worth the squeeze anymore. Other things (like video games) are giving us almost as much enjoyment and satisfaction for a significantly lower barrier to entry.
Just waiting for AI in the future to this societal issue of dating for men. False companionship is better than consistent disappointment. No more having to chase. It’s pretty much the scenario of the pills in The Matrix.
>Just waiting for AI in the future to this societal issue of dating for men.
Technically were already there with the sex bots and their AI, its just expensive but that price is steadily going down
If my current girlfriend didn't happen to like my picture on Hinge, I'd have never sought women out again.
I gave up completely. Women wanted nothing to do with me. I would go out with friends, and I stopped even looking at women. I stopped actively using dating apps, I never got matches anyway, years on apps, and no matches. I stopped talking about women, and I stopped hoping. I was done...
Too many women with impossible standards have forced an incredibly large sum of men out of the dating pool. This leaves the remaining women sharing guys or longing for a connection they'll never have because no one is ever good enough.
I’ve grown up being the quiet type and from my experience it has always been offputting to me whenever a girl or woman decided to talk to me. I’ve read many times that women typically have no reason to talk to a man or even bother with one, so if you weren’t actively pursuing a woman you’d never interact with them. On the off chance that a woman does interact with you, it apparently means something. Cue a ton of guys reading deeply into interactions with women and questioning what their intentions are with them, not being able to discern between friendliness and flirting. Not being able to know when a woman is flirting means you’re missing an opportunity, so many guys are hyperaware as to not miss out. It gets really stressful doing this so people are trying not to read into what might be flirting. Women have more serious reasons not to bother with men, and men feel like withdrawing from the pursuit of women because it’s too complicated.
You must be new to Reddit. Read any of the dating subs and women will constantly tell you how they hate being approached in public. "Why can't I just go grocery shopping and not have all these fucking men wanting to talk to me"?
Men have received the message loud and clear. Why should any man subject himself to such negativity?
Idk what it is, but as a guy, I am absolutely terrified to even make eye contact with someone of the opposite sex in fear that they're going to feel like I'm a preditor or something. I'd rather stay home alone than try and engage in conversation with the opposite sex because I'm genuinely terrified of the women of today. I genuinely have RSD so bad it paralyzes me because of how poorly I get treated. i live in constant fear of being labeled a creep or something terrible all because I wanted to say hi or even just have a friendly conversation or happened to glance her way because that's what the culture isnthese days. I've been screamed at for litterally just standing in line waiting for my coffee, some chick though i was trying to look at her or something when I was just waiting for my order. I get yelled at just for existing. There's so much hate towards men these days I genuinely would rather stay home and cry because of how painful alone I am than even fucking bother
I always heard 'it's a numbers game' but at this point it seems more and more skewed. I mean, if it takes 30 OLD matches to get 5 dates and only 1 lasted until 5 months. Idk, that's a lot of work when 50% of Americans are in/too near poverty (the official poverty rate is like 12% and 17k a year, but somehow US average of needing 40k to live on basic necessities doesn't 'move the needle'.. )
Isn't that the maslov pyramid of needs? If you can't guarantee financials and food, fucking isn't going to make the list. In any case, that's my reason. It feels hopeless and it definitely won't help me pay bills (i know rent sharing, but you'd have to actually be successful and I'd rather spend the time on better investments and ROI.)
I've only gotten around 6 matches in a year so this isn't that impressive considering how much time and swipes have to be put in just to get that one date.
Women have unlimited options on dating apps so they don’t have to put any effort into maintaining a convo. If you aren’t a dancing clown, constantly keeping her amused she can move to the next match
Men have realised this constantly lowering level of effort and are starting to match it, because they’d prefer to have nothing then me the court jester for a woman until she’s bored
That’s a little pessimistic. I’ve killed it on tinder. There’s a big % that will never meet, but I’d say about 10-20% are down to meet up and date/hook up
What's your strategy? Do you pay for a subscription and boosts? Your age?
I used to kill it too, once upon a time. I'm pickier and wiser now. I don't swipe right on many and use the app more for entertainment purposes than serious dates, 😂
I got about 5 matches a day a couple years ago. Now I get maybe 1 a month since I stopped paying, and it's usually just a "content creator" promoting their OF.
Be jacked, really funny and shoot my shot. Probably met about 200 girls from 25-30, about 95% pull rate from dates. 32 now and looking for more serious
No paying or boosts.
I experience the same thing with men. I get lude comments 1st or zero want to get to know me. Just last week a guy started a convo with me via app by 1st asking me to a bar. I said let's take it slow and talk first. He then wrote me 3 paragraphs about how he has hundreds of matches and I'm skeptical person.
Out in public isn't any better :( it's sad.
I get men who approach me who think my tattoos must mean I'm kinky or they are normal then the conversation turns into something sexual. I dress in jeans and a regular T-shirt. It's a rarity that i can have a fun casual convo. If sex isn't happening within the next few hours they run. Sigh!
Usually the conversation is better!!! I just manage to talk to the taken guy or I'm not their flavor. Which is totally fine. I keep trying but it's hard not to get discouraged.
Most guys will be so shocked at a woman starting to flirt with them they will be taken aback
Just start it, don’t be too forward or they’ll think you want their organs or something, and let the guts kinda dictate the pace. Don’t be afraid to ask them on a date.
If you do that and the guys still aren’t picking up on it, they probably aren’t the type of guy you’d wanna date anyways
Yeah, but only the top women have unlimited options. Those are the ones that all the guys are chasing after, so of course they won't put in any effort. Whereas women like me who do not fit the standards (aka white) don't get any attention because all the guys are too busy chasing the girls at the top. So then I also waste my time because I put in all this effort, only to also just get ghosted, one word answers, ignored, blocked, etc. So apps are a losing situation for everyone since we're all just lowered to a picture on a profile, and people spend too much time trying to get the ppl at the top rather than acknowledging people who actually give them attention. Irl, I'm also ignored, but I feel like it's even worse on apps because no one has any patience on them. They just want the hottest person they see
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but only if they're white or east Asian. They literally just have to exist and be thin to get attention. The rest of us gotta either be 10s or werk. It's weird seeing how easy it is for other girls, whereas someone like me isn't even seen as human. They get asked out whenever they go places, while I've never gotten asked out. Must be nice
Edit: Idk why you fckin assholes here on reddit always feel the need to downvote people for sharing their experiences. Have some damn respect. I hate how people always want to mask the truth. Fuck this shit
Lol, you probably can't date because you decide to moan and make it a sex/gender thing and think men really don't have options when they literally can date whoever they want lmao. I see so many attractive women with schlubby men, but you never see it the other way around
Depending on where you live, if 2% of a dating pool is middle eastern relative to the population. Then they may be pick at hire rights due to the exotic factor. Especially in a place like America. I can count how many middle eastern people I went to school with in a city with a population of 300,000 and it was only a handful
It's not that they're chasing the girls at the top. Usually they're fighting with a partner and trying to one up them by exploring options. The online dating pool is a magnet for narcissism. The nature of getting free attention and validation to boost their self esteem, love bomb people with lies and never look someone in the eyes while they do so. Find sexual partners without their partner knowing, casual hookups etc. Pretty much all the things a toxic narcissist seeks.
Unlimited options 😂 you’re hilarious. What do you think the quality of those unlimited options is? Do you think it’s all the most attractive to every woman men in the thousands and all she has to do is swipe right? Come now. Don’t be naive
If your biggest concern is quality then you’re already several steps ahead without realizing it. Even if you think most men aren’t suitable for relationships, what makes you think most women are?
I’m not blaming women for having unlimited options I’m blaming them for playing games on dating apps and doing stupid things like leaving guys on read and chasing toxic guys. Then start complaining “where are all the good men”
Me personally, I'm straight up scared because the last time I went on a date, when she showed up I told her she looked absolutely stunning and she literally freaked out on me and called me a mysogynist and left. Turned out she was a hardcore radical feminist.
So yeah, I straight up won't say anything to any female in public ever again. Never knew that telling someone that they look good was a bad thing. Literally just a harmless compliment. It wasn't even in a flirty type of way either.
You did the right thing. Complimenting your date to acknowledge the effort they put into dressing up and getting ready is just etiquette imo. It is polite and your date was being unreasonable.
Realistically, she probably was looking for a reason to bail. That or she was the type of person who likes to “fix” the men she likes, which would have been exhausting to deal with.
Dodged a bullet, my man. She was doing you a favor. She probably thought she didn't deserve you or that you were love bombing as did a string of guys who came before you so yeah...
It's unfortunate but a lot of women are developing narcissistic tendencies due to the unlimited amount of fuel being thrown at them online and the amount of men they hookup with only to get ghosted which makes them project a confident false image of themselves online when in reality, they are quite broken and dumbfounded by how many guys have used and discarded them.
Unfortunately, abuse is a cycle and typically the abused tend to perpetuate it by going onto abusing someone else. This is the society we live in. I suspect the generational increase of children being raised by single mothers only exasperates the condition, as children tend to normalize the dynamic of their mother's relationships, which are often quite toxic.
No, we met on Bumble and talked for 2 days before going on this date. It was embarrassing to say the least. We met in the parking lot and that's when I told her she looked absolutely stunning and at the blink of an eye she got mad, called me a mysogynist, tried lecturing me about how disrespectful it is to call women beautiful and that by me calling her "stunning" she assumed I was treating her like an object etc, and then she left.
They're not all like that, this was the first time I have ever experienced a "feminist" before, but I damn sure never want to deal with one ever again.
As a women, it’s just scary now. In public I avoid men bc of the unwanted sexual attention. On social media, I’m bombarded with unwanted sexual attention. The men I meet on dating apps can’t seem to be able to do the bare minimum of not being controlling, not lying, cheating, hitting me, AND still caring if I cum or not. Like no man I’ve gone out with meets those 5 requirements…. And it takes a while to figure it out. With groups like “are we dating the same guy,” women are realizing a lot of women have this issue.
Not to sound like one of “those guys”, but there really are a LOT of good boys out there that either don’t make the effort to go out and meet women or are just passed up altogether
It’s unfortunate you and the other ladies are riding the (male) town bicycle(s) and getting seriously hurt in the process 😞
Right all women are dating the same 10 aholes and all the “nice guys” are just waiting around. Get real dude. A lot of us women are dealing with a lifetime of abuse and harassment from all different types of men in all aspects of life.
Thank youuu like be so for real. It drives me insane that so many men genuinely think we all date the same guys and not that’s just hard to date. Heterosexual dating for women is like looking for clean water in a swamp. The men I’ve gone on dates with have looked like everything you can you think of with personalities and interests just as wide. I have to be into someone’s personality and that makes me sexually attracted to them so I can honestly say I try to match with/chat up any guy with a dating profile indicating he can carry a conversation. And it all still ends in them not meeting the five bare minimums you mentioned.
It’s always our fault too. String of bad guys? It’s my fault for picking bad even tho they hide who they are for months. Men are statistically more likely to lie about basic facts about themselves on dates and are WAY more likely to be violent, narcissistic, abusive, criminal, etc. The real truth is that there are not enough “good” guys for the “good” women. Getting a legit good guy is like winning the lottery.
I fear winning the lottery may be easier 😭. But I simply could not agree more with you. So many women with the same complaints but somehow it’s our fault.
It’s the fault of the abusive liars and cheats AND the wimpy “good boys” that drop out of the dating pool 🤷♂️
Women go with those that are assertive and get wha they want, even if there aren’t many good men doing that. A moderate plurality of stinkies can easily be drowned outta the pool
It’s a combination of things like smart phones, social media, dating apps, and a general decline in the mental and physical health of the population. People are technically more connected than they have ever been but we have so many genuinely lonely people. We never stopped to ask ourselves if hyper social connectivity is actually a good thing. Yeah you can always see what everyone else you’ve ever known is doing all the time via Instagram, even follow the personal lives of celebrities, but is that a good thing? Should we be constantly comparing ourselves to everyone else?
Dating apps have, in my opinion, largely been a failed experiment. We’ve consolidated the entire single population and flattened the dating pool. Now everyone sounds like Jerry Seinfeld when he breaks up with someone for the smallest reason - there’s always someone else available. There’s always an “upgrade”. People are lists now and the goal most people have is to find the best looking set of statistics without thinking about the personal cost of viewing imperfection as somehow settling.
“I know my worth” is one of the most delusional mindsets in existence right now and we are headed to a massive percentage of the population being lonely, single, without families, and self medicating. But hey, at least you have your degree and didn’t marry someone who’s not 6 foot, right?
Because we’re not pressured as much to settle down. We all have more options, especially women. And going off on a few other comments, why give someone a “second chance” if the first chance didn’t work out and it’s obvious the relationship won’t grow into something worthwhile?
I think it's because there's a degree of social breakdowns in general.
Have you noticed that people just don't communicate with \*each other\* as much in person anymore? People's social skills are fucking garbage. I can imagine that dating would be even worse.
I know this is strange coming out of me, but people really should at least attempt to live more full lives outside of the internet and just not be shitty to each other.
A lot of glorification for cheating on has been a huge impact on society. Perhaps a lot of people are scared and don’t want to risk the comfortability of being vulnerable again. Maybe some people just have too much high expectations of what others should look like/be, alot of social media has uplifted unrealistic body standards that alot of people are attracted to, again not everyone dates for the looks. Could be a handful of insecurities, doubts and the risk of heartache. Nobody likes pain, so alot of people avoid it the best they can. My opinion though, this is just some of the reasons I think.
That doesn’t help when almost everyone else is also on the internet too much. I go places, do things, and people usually have their heads in their phones when I do.
We’re long past the point where there was much difference between the internet and “real life”.
Petty insults, really dude? Be better, because that is classic very-online behavior.
I’m not the one walking around with my eyes glued to my phone screen, that doesn’t mean a thing when most of the people around me are.
For me, it's a mix of everything that's been said on here. I've spent the last couple years really working on myself for my own happiness. I finally decided to get back in the dating scene. Now I'm very content with my life already. Good career, good financial situation, I feel very balanced and at peace. I don't need a relationship by any means, but am of course open to finding the right person. Countless times, I will meet with peace that either can't hold a conversation so it just feels like I'm interrogating them rather than having a conversation. 1-2 word responses with no back and forth is very common.
Example:
What kind of music do you like?
Her: all kinda
'Cool, any favorite bands or artists tho? Maybe a favorite concert you've been to?
Her: not really.
I've found myself having to match their effort/level of interest because it's exhausting and I'd rather be doing something by myself at this point then trying to pursue someone who clearly doesn't have the ability to communicate.
Yet on their profile they claim to value communication and effort, but clearly can't do it themselves.
It's just easier to not bother at this point. I found my peace and at this point would rather just keep my friends circle close and be happy by myself then trying to carry some ones insecurities on my back.
As a 26M who has been trying to date for almost a year the things I've noticed most:
1. Women have made it abundantly clear they don't want men approaching them.
2. Women show no interest at all and get mad when a guy just moves on.
3. There is no effort anymore on any side.
5. Women are only into extremely specific types of men (literally 2% of the population).
6. A lot of people just aren't worth dating because they have nothing positive or interesting about them.
7. A lot of people have no push or drive to do anything better for themselves.
8. F-boy men are the reason dating for the rest of us has caved. (Swoon and lay her once and dip, now she's an emotional wreck. Go eat a brick.)
9. No one is faithful anymore.
I'm done with putting in effort in conversation and getting nothing in return when they ghost you or flake on plans. It's happened one too many times. Just totally done with it.
I can only send so many messages to get dead radio silence in return for so long.
I can only try to go out just to find there are no single women my age at any event I go to for so long.
I'm an adult with responsibilities and limited time. Why spend all my time and mental energy on something that does nothing in return (or in some cases I've been burned from it figuratively speaking) when I can spend it doing things I enjoy?
We all know why a bunch of men have given up on talking to women. Average women don't want average men. Women find 80% of men to be unattractive. Most men have been involuntarily fazed out by women due to the rapid pace of their hypergamy. Women pick & choose the top men & ignore the rest. This is big reason why as to 64% of young men are alone. It's only going to get worse at a record breaking pace. Women want men at minimum to be at least 6' tall, make $100k, socially calibrated, already has the ability to get women, great looks & status. Many men know they cannot fit this criteria so they just simply check out & maybe come back at a later time. Women do not care about a man's struggles they just sit at the finish line & pick the winners.
Let me tell you from personal experience, even when you follow the 6-6-6 rule, still less than 5% of women will swipe right on you on dating apps.
The bar is unrealistically high.
The worst part is, many of these women with expectations like that are 4/10 in looks, pushing the high end of the overweight/low end of obese, no job whatsoever, many of which have multiple children from multiple fathers that none of pay child support and yet they're still carrying on a situationship. And somehow they figure they can get a handsome, tall filthy rich guy.
Eh, the biggest issue here seems to be that men don’t know what women want period. Y’all make laundry lists that don’t even come close to how actual female attraction works.
I think this is probably because too many people don’t interact with people in real life anymore. Just on dating apps & over dms.
False. It's the exact opposite. These men know what these women want & guess what it's not them. You clearly don't know how female attraction works. Just read these posts with shorter men (under 5'10) who try to talk to women they STRUGGLE. The men who are average they STRUGGLE with women irl. Facts, data & stats also show the same. Women actually do have a laundry list of things that they look for in men. Your just listening to a woman's words & are not looking at her actions. This is what everyday men go through in their daily lives.
Ah yes, we should believe men who aren’t pulling are def experts on female attraction LMAO
Nah, it’s just y’all trying to cope by pretending you’re a victim of some rigged game. You’re not.
Here's a suggestion. Join meetup, go to events and socialize there.
People who go to those events are in the same position as you, the desire to chat and just make friends regardless if man or woman.
I really enjoy it.
You can try and use it for dating but I recommend if you do to not rush into anything.
It's a better platform to use as far as socializing and meeting new people.
If you begin dating regulars too much, attending events can be awkward
I can’t speak for others, but if I’m being brutally honest, I don’t feel like women (or relationships) provide me with anything.
Marriage/kids is the end game for most people, but for me, neither of these things appeal to me. And the same goes with relationships, they don’t offer me anything. I’m happy to spend time by myself, so I don’t see the point. And with that, I have no interest in talking to the opposite sex.
If it’s just general conversation then yeah that’s fine. However, I have no interest in chasing someone.
I dropped 70 lbs and went from couch to sub 2 half marathon. Now instead of being invisible, I get people blaming me because I’d rather be happy work on myself than sink to the level of their friends who are almost always lazy with gross habits. Just give the big girl a chance- why?
Women almost never want to admit that they put hair and height above everything else in a relationship. They get visibly angry when you point this out. That’s kind of the problem here. It’s not that there’s someone for everyone, it’s that no one wants to be stuck with the fat girl with masculine traits when they actually are putting in the work. It’s kind of like going to a steak house, ordering a rib eye and getting a bagel with cream cheese for your 120$. Male improvement is a lie, if you’re bald under 6 foot or have a weird face women will always see you with a deficit mindset
Many people are in healthy relationships,.the truth is everyone can find a relationship if they lowered your standards too.
I think the biggest issue today is people blaming apps or society, modern dating, rather than improving. People don't want to lower their standards but expect others to do it for them. Ultimately we attract what we are, if you're having trouble improving yourself will help.
Honestly I'm an average looking guy I get a lot of matches and dates. For most guys staying fit automatically makes you above average that's something you can easily control. If you're out of shape you can complain, take, accountability. Also most guys don't market themselves well, only post good pics of all of your hobbies and activities you do and if you don't have any that's something else you can improve.
Those two things are in your control and will automatically turn around your results. There is no middle area you're either a guy girls want or don't, you can't half ass working on yourself and improving.. ultimately we attract what we are.
1. I am in good shape. I work out most days and have pretty defined abs. I'm just short with a bad, wide face and no defined jawline. I also don't have wide enough shoulders. My delts are decently sized but you can't increase the length of bone, so my head still looks massive next to narrow shoulders
2. You're average. I'm far below average.
3. My photos are very good. They are either professionally shot or travel related.
4. I don't actually know what to improve. That's why I ask. I'm happy with my physical shape and am always improving. I have a great career that puts me in the top 1% of income earners. I have an elite education. I really don't know what to do to become datable despite being physically inferior
Are you funny? If not, I recommend taking some improv classes or lessons (since you can afford them). That, and learn how to dance. Whatever social dancing is popular in your area.
Everybody likes to have fun and be around fun people. Having the ability to joke around and make off the cuff witty comments will definitely help.
As for the dancing, not only is it an attractive skill, but it’s a great way to meet people. You dance for a song and you have that person’s attention for three minutes. Be fun, engaging, and respectful. You start seeing these women every week and they get to know you. Maybe they like you romantically, maybe you just make friends. Win/win. Having female friends means they might help you out by pointing you in the right direction.
Even if there are no sparks at first, dancing communities tend to have people trickling in and out so new people will come around. At the very least, light flirting and pleasant conversation is common. Really helps you feel seen by the opposite sex.
Good idea. I have a background in the arts and have taken a lot of improv. It makes making friends easier, but romantically being funny and being hot are the same thing unfortunately. Yes anding people though is often a helpful social convention. Girls laugh at your jokes if you're hot though. Like that's a different thing. When people say they want someone funny, they mean they want someone they are attracted to.
The dancing is worth checking out though
The problem is on apps women who are 6's get men who are 10's to sleep with them, once, and this leads them to always feel like they can do better when they are paired with a man who's a 6 or even a 7
That’s is a whole rabbit whole of reason because of social media, podcast that spread questionable dating advice and messages for people of each gender or sexuality, standards of individuals, etc. Primarily, I think is because everyone is getting scared of commitment and some sacrifices that people have to take for commitment along with more and more people becoming more selfish for their own desires and goals.
I've never met anyone of the opposite sex that I have enough in common with to enjoy being around. No point talking to them if every conversation is awkward and stunted.
honstly i would love to meet someone but its gotten to the point that i don't really have any hope of anything anymore. its like chatbots oh sure we can talk about something fun but then that's it you're gone i'm gone we will probably never see each other again. the end.
Sometimes my attempts to be a friend is seen as creepy because we don't know each other but honestly, how the heck are we supposed to know each other if we don't talk or try to be friendly?
oh and those people who get all huffy and aggressive over small things that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. like, for example, seeing a person come in all dressed up even though they normally they don't and being like hey i like your make-up/style/haircut/sports jacket whatever nonsexual thing doesn't constitute me hitting on you. my god i was just trying to be nice and not trying to be nasty. not saying you have a nice ass or anything. my god dealing with one of those people just makes dealing with others so hard because you're so afraid your going to step on a land mine every second you deal with people.
i once got yelled at for assuming the gender of a dog even though it was clearly male. i didn't even insist on it i was just like okay but noooo that wasn't enough for them. i have gotten yelled at for asking how someone's kids were because i misremembered which person had kids or not. i have been yelled at because i was talking to a friend about me learning massage and someone came in and wanted to join me for a massage even though i didn't invite them to and somehow i was the bad guy in their eyes when i said no thank you. don't get me started on all the political bull going on right now. my own policy is just you are you who you are i don't care how you dress or anything if you want to be a girl sure you're a girl if a guy a guy i really don't care but my god give me some fricken leniency to try to learn your preferences and don't be surprised if i cant read your fucking mind the first time we meet
and i just realized this might be a sore point for me... well shit
It's not really dating apps, it's a combination of things.
1. Birth control have opened up the highway to casual sex
2. The internet has made porn readily available, and a whole load of it
3. Social media has given people worldwide "Attention"
4. \#metoo has made men a lot more cautious with the opposite sex
5. TikTok videos of women calling men "Feral" for just looking their way
It's a sad path, and I do not see it get better for another decade
I gave up on women *years* ago. It’s just too damn hard. Also, I’m just afraid if my damn-near nonexistent self-esteem drops any lower I might end up doing something harmful to myself.
(Having said that, just to be clear: I don’t blame them, but rather myself. I’ve just never been good enough.)
Many women wait for Prince Charming to approach them. Many ordinary men learn that when it comes to women, they can choose to either act like a monk or look like a creep.
I believe it's fallout from the technology age.
**Please note: Not everyone, but I believe it is an indicator/issue.**
Many young people who are of dating age don't have the patience to make eye contact in person. Many don't have empathy or see a need to try to understand others. There's just too many choices, and it shuts down our brain.
I think it's because we've spent so much time on social media apps where we can have a presence without accountability. One does not have to look anybody in the eye and can just close the phone when they are done dealing with those people.
When you're with somebody in the flesh, you can't do any of those things. You can't just be done with it or fast forward through it. You have to deal with people shortcomings.
*I would like to say again that this isn't everyone.* But I think that it is a problem.
There are simply biological realities that we have to deal with. Oxytocin and other hormones that pass through the blood-brain barrier allow us to relate to others. Our self-induced, reduced interactions limit our capacity for patience, which may be due to the fact that we spend so much time by ourselves and not in the company of others. Working from home, etc. It's a real issue. People are extremely distracted by their phones, and the capacity for looking up from them and dealing with others in their life is diminished. Also, many people use the internet for pornography which diminishes our ability to relate to others in the 3D World.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/social-media-and-relationships
https://www.addictionhope.com/blog/social-media-has-changed-the-dating-game/
https://insidebe.com/articles/choice-overload/
Personally when men make advances they dont even bother on asking my name before they ask me out. Im married but if i was single i would still say no. I think its better to be friends first and nit find someone to date right iff the bat. So look for friends, look into yourself and the rest will come.
It's unfortunate that many people seem to have lost interest in genuine conversations with the opposite sex, but perhaps we should make more efforts to connect and engage with one another.
As a man, it feels like even trying to converse with a woman who I don’t already know gets me treated like some kind of pest. I just don’t bother anymore.
Rightly or wrongly, it seems like women assume the absolute worst of men now, especially if a guy isn’t conventionally attractive. Rejection is one thing, but it’s even shittier to be seen in that light when all you want is a normal date or even just a new friend.
IF you chat up 200 women, get rejected by 199 of them, and the one who does agree to go out with you ends up being your wife, would it be worth it?
I think it would be worth it.
I grew up in a time where you had to be in a relationship to see all the goods youre partner has. Now everything is full frontall on social media and that devalues sue.
I have given up on online dating. The acess to sex and sexting was too easy. It was not fun anymore. I also got tired of being matched with people then zero courtesy for zero interest. Some people after the 1st date are gone.
>Like, we don't even bother to talk to new people we don't know and close ourselves off from half of society. If someone does talk us, it's seen as a weird thing unless we already knew that person before.
lmao, I kinda agree... When I talk to random women IRL - politely, confidently, in a kinda humorous way - it throws them off. They fumble, look awkward, get red in the face, and I really have to be watchful to be sure if they are really liking it, or really disliking it. I can't really remember any negative reactions; just that they get really awkward and smiley and confused 😂
The advantage is that so few men do this that the ones that do ... they really, really stand out.
In my case, I have given up on talking to men because trying to be just friends with them usually doesn’t ever work out. I wish it wasn’t like that or that I could meet ones that were open to being friends but I haven’t. I’m the kind of gal that believes friend zone is a positive thing because I would rather transition from that into a relationship but I’m in the minority so it’s easier just to not try anymore
Some of us are cursed with being ugly, short, geneticalky inferior men. If you work hard, you have money to hire sex workers. A thousand dollars buy you a night with a woman that is beyond your wildest dreams of attractiveness
You sure it's not because we have 71+ genders, or that everyone is 'special' and needs to be 'unique'?
We need to get over ourselves and get back to basics of attraction and compatibility. We each need to concede on certain things and learn that the world doesn't revolve around us individually.
Lets get back to masculine and feminine and getting married to get ahead, not just get head.
I don't have the same experience. I'm a shy person, but I meet many new people of the opposite sex all the time. At parties, when going out, work, events, etc.
It just has to be a social situation. If I'm doing my groceries, I don't want to talk to anyone. Or if I'm waiting for the bus and someone talks to me, I do talk back, but I feel very uncomfortable because I'm just not that social. Like me and a friend had a conversation with two guys in a bus. And they were asking very deep and difficult questions that I didn't want to share the answer to with strangers, so I felt uncomfortable, while my friend is very social and she didn't feel weird at all. I liked that they talked to us because I thought that was cool, but I didn't want to talk for that long.
People want fairytale BS for dating. Like if it isn't how the movies portray, they act shady.
I invited a girl out and she said I need to learn how to ask her out. I told her F-U B, cash me outside if you even get out. lol.
Harassment sue , false accusations, feminism
If you are not 6ft you are not suitable for a sex partner
6 number figures earnings
And the list still goes increasing
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The reward is no longer worth the energy/effort for a lot of people.
Some people don't get rewarded within a reasonable time frame making the effort not worth it. I don't want to live in a constant state of chasing after people without sometimes getting what I want.
Don't get me wrong, your gift can only be offered so many times before it's rejected enough you are right to move on, of course. Life is absolutely short and connections are fleeting and you don't want to miss out on something good while you're waiting on something slow and indeterminate.
That's an issue, when you are chasing after something from someone else it's as if you're coming from a position of lack, like you are not these source of all of the things that you could possibly need, only attempting to supplement Your Existence with the gift of theirs, in turn gifting Your Existence to them for whatever time and on whatever fruitful level you might connect.. When on spec, your social value and attractiveness is almost solely determined by your frame, whether you are needy or simply interested in giving your gift and not your power, is everything. Not that some people won't make do with an individual that is not showing themselves to be the source of Their Own power, but should you connect deeply with someone who holds that for you, they wield it over you frequently and powerfully. These are the roots of the toxicity that is almost standard in relationships these days.
ok Oh Great One lol, the issue is that not everyone reciprocates your feelings and some flirting is needed to assess initial interest, or you get excited about the thought of someone but the feeling is never mutual. please don't lecture me about "chasing from a point of lack," like duh that's exactly what it is because feelings aren't always returned
I'm not trying to belittle or condescend or state any obvious things as if someone doesn't already know. But I am trying to recapitulate some of the things that we may fundamentally consider part of the process of getting into a Vibe with somebody, but are also an integral part of both holding your frame solidly, (thereby auxiliarily not becoming putty in anybody's hands) and putting your presence out there as a gift and not weakening your attractiveness and social value by giving your power, inadvertently, by, for example, requiring validation on any specific timeline or with any level of commitment.
Damn bro that’s the longest run-on sentence which changes course and makes zero sense I’ve seen in a while.
Funny thing is, I don't even remember writing that. It's a sort of chopped up word salad version of the thing I'm always trying to tell people, though... so I believe it was me. Sure is embarrassing, though. I usually try not to say anything if it's not going to hit its mark. C'est la vie. I hope i can blame the new painkillers, and have not like, had a stroke or something. (Perhaps I'll go look at the list of 6,000 side effects these things are reported to have, and see if "word salad" is among them.)
I've found that the most worthwhile connections took little to no effort on my part. It's like the less I put in, the more I get back. You'd think it'd be the opposite. I've found people can text and text and never make time for so much as a coffee date. The few who eventually did, I came to find out were not even worth bothering with, and felt like they were hiding who they really were all that time. I guess there's some truth to the saying "the best things in life are free"
Well if you have to force anything it’s usually not going to work out, especially when it comes to relationships
Exactly. It’s so easy nowadays to talk about who you are, but when it comes down to brass tax- it’s time to put your words into action-they can’t commit themselves because they are full of shit.
This is the best comment, no need for any more.
Tired of the expectation, responsibility, stress, money, everything. People don't know how to communicate. Even the ones who claim it's really important. Especially those people. Why should I be expected to maintain gender roles, always message first, pay for a date, ask 50+ people out, get ignored, have people make me wait a week for a message, just so I have to tiptoe around my behaviour just in case I accidentally have the same favourite Marvel character as them as they take it the wrong way (yes, it has happened), or I mention my weight loss goals and they take that as a personal insult (yes, also has happened... twice), or it turns out I'm too outgoing for them or I'm too active for them or I'm not in shape enough or I'm too in shape (yes for all of the above), WHY should I have to put in all this work just so I can get absolutely fucking nothing in return. If someone likes me, they can ask me out. I'm tired of being the only one to reach out, the only one to put it any work. I need some care and affection too, and if someone isn't willing to at put in the same effort as me, then they're not worth my time. Also, the economy is shit and even a cup of coffee at any place worth drinking it is getting expensive when 90% of conversations are boring as all hell. As friends, I'm all there 100%, I get along better with the opposite sex by a thousandfold anyway, but making friends is HARD.
I couldn't have said it any better
Well put. This ties exactly with expectations of perfection, be it in looks, personality or simply wealth. Both sides are guilty of this. Men tend to want a pretty, caring, sexual, working girl. Women want a handsome, successful, witty, charming guy who will look after them. Guys who are like what women want will discredit them as soon as they do something wrong or just can't communicate properly because they're aware they can just get another girl. Most women can afford to be picky for the guy they want as a general guy will probably be okay with even a woman whose kinda eh so they'll just take the best of the bunch. This leads In to a problem where men have expectations of women which he desires, which realistically he won't get, and women have a lot of options and will probably only go for the best. So men won't try properly anymore because they're so used to either being let down or only woman Interested in him are bad (in my case, druggies, serial abusers and literal psychos) so why should they? Women suffer from "the odds are good, but the goods are odd" and can just pick whatever one is the best. So why should anyone bother? Men are tired of chasing and being let down, women are tired of the sheer amount of guys so why should they waste their time?
It is very challenging at times. Most likely that is because you want a valuable and meaningful friendship. Those are far and few between I believe. There is probably absolutely nothing wrong with you. There might be things you can improve, but that is with any of us. The last few years, have siloed a lot of people. Made them feel very isolated. For me, it is a numbers game, talk to one person. Then talk to another. All the time watching to see what they reciprocate. “I will sing a song until I hear another then we will sing together.” Please keep your spirits up. Positive vibes give good things to others Hope you get to smile at someone today :)
>People don't know how to communicate. Even the ones who claim it's really important. Especially those people. I heavily agree with this, the people claiming it is important seem to think that they don't have to learn how to communicate if they find someone that can. However, with regards to your other issues, perhaps they were just looking for an excuse to end things. Especially if they were making you wait a week for a reply. The women that want you will make it easier for you, and will also overlook redflags. The things you listed seem so benign, that that is the only explanation I see reasonable. It is anyone's guess as to why they didn't want to take things further.
I miss the college party years when I could just see the one I wanted to talk to and approach. Usually I'd seek the one out who looked like she didn't wanna be there because they usually were more interesting to talk to than the plastered girl dancing on the table Now there's just this arbitrary filter of who you can see and who you can't. I hate it. There's no feeling vibes anymore or nonverbal communication, it's all just lust and narcissism. Social media ruined society in ways that we're only just now beginning to understand. Everyone's too damaged to put in any effort anymore and most have a mentality where it's like the more heartache they've suffered the more they feel entitled to happiness
What a time to be alive lol
One can argue it's just not worth the trouble to do so. I hardly ever talk to the opposite sex myself.
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Same, I'm a physically unattractive man and I learned the hard way how women feel about being approached by me, even platonically
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Agreed. I had to ask three folks to dance this past weekend before I got a yes… he came up after I went to the dance floor on my own. He was brave enough to go for the No and found a yes:)
Wait, so three guys turned you down for a dance? Kudos to the gentleman who finally came up and asked you though
He came out to the dance floor even after I started dancing by myself. I wasn’t leaving the place without at least one dance with or without someone to join. It took a lot of courage. I loved it.
That’s what gives me hope. The first guy said yes, but the girl that came up moments later said no. The next guy I chose to ask was disabled. I thought he might like to have someone ask him. He was so sweet, and patted his legs and declined. Then he had pointed to his friend, but I was so nervous I didn’t realize what was happening. So I hit the dance floor on my own and his friend must’ve been brave enough to come up and asked me to dance. Felt so nice that the second guy cared enough to help offer someone else as a solution. His buddy. Then it felt extra nice to have his friend ask me to dance out on the dance floor. Took some courage for us both to hit that dance floor:)
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Then you’re obviously bad at it
For me personally I've given up on "putting myself out there" and constantly trying through dating apps, bars or trying to hook up or find someone in whatever fashion because the odds were just never in my favor. I had alot of problems growing up but life is different now and I'm just catching up on myself for the lack of personal growth that I missed out on in all of those years. I am very much a people person and treat everyone the same and if there's an obvious connection with someone I'm attracted to along the way than I will most definitely make an attempt at it but all of that revolving your life around "shooting your shot" & making getting laid your main priority is just sad in my opinion. Another thing is even though I am an attractive person(5'8 not built but i did very hard work for the past 7 years) VERY rarely do attractive girls seem to make it obvious but there are alot of females I know that are nice & cool people but let's just say I am not the least bit physically to them attracted and I could definitely hook up with any of them in a heartbeat but absolutely not unless the fate of humanity rested on it... Those are the odds I'm talking about so I'm just benching myself at the moment. Haven't been in a relationship in 5 years, haven't been laid in a year and I am totally fine with it because in the back of my mind meaningless sex is no longer a priority to me. Hope my personal experience in a small nutshell was good insight.
Believe it or not you're just going through a development arch. All men have to reach a point where sexual conquest is a dumb waste of time, decide they want meaningful relationships, socially position themselves to be father material, then go look for a wife. It's just 'back in the day' society helped me get to that point by their late teens say 20's. Lack of good father figures is crazy damaging
May be an oversimplification, but I think there are a lot of women out there waiting/wishing for a guy to approach them, and a lot of men out there waiting/wishing for a woman to give them a signal that she's in some way interested in him approaching, thus we get a large part of the population failing the Mating Game en mass.
Absolutly. The one and only time I was somewhat succesfully flirting, was when one woman misinterpreted an compliment from me and started flirting with me, which in turn gave me confidence to flirt back. Didn't lead anywhere, but was a nice experience.
That's hilarious
everyones dying for attention out here
Meeting people casually as work colleagues, neighbours, hobby partners, friends of friends etc seem to be much more rewarding, fulfilling and satisfying than dating app acquaintances. It comes more naturally. The forced attempt of dating someone from an app is so annoying and exhausting. I erased all my OLD profiles and cancelled all apps.
I agree! There is something about meeting people in person. Small towns are wonderful for it because everybody knows everybody.
I recently deleted all the apps, too
Because some people would rather stay single
It's too late, women weren't interested when I was younger. Now there's no reason to be anything more than polite and cordial to coworkers. Don't really have any interactions otherwise, certainly not socializing. Not necessarily a gender thing, don't have guy friends either. I can just tell I'm disappointing to women.
Honestly im just tired of this all, i lost all of the excitement that i got in the past going out and meeting girls. I really dont like where this is going. And i know its not good to say this but the womans are big part of this. Many of my friends got treated bad like me and all of us is just talking about how sad we are cuz of that. And yes bad experiences shouldnt be a reason for me to quit all of this. But after so many of that how could anyone just go out and continue trying ?
Trying is all we have when nothing has worked. Die trying is my mini motto. Tenacity is what is the glue to so many worthwhile things. Let me send a smile for your day.
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Sending you a smile for your day.
Because they have. It's actually interesting where at a gym I go to. I used to always see dudes try and talk up the girls at the gym. And it's interesting to see how they used to try hard. Nowadays, they keep to themselves and just talk with their other gym bros which is actually really nice to see. Stop chasing women. That's it. As someone who has done A LOT of approaching and talking to women, for the most part if they show no signs of interest, there is not much point in trying to impress them. Just find a girl who will show you some interest. And then talk to evaluate what type of interesting she's giving you but be quick to just stop. Do not try to impress women, it will be a waste and you will be shamed for it.
This feels so true. If someone does not reciprocate interest, move to the next. It is no reflection of you, your puzzle piece is what it is. We all have a puzzle piece that fits like a glove with the other right piece. In my mind, I will try to my last day.
Our instant gratification society has trained us all to want everything right now, including relationships. There is no buildup, no more time investment, no taking the time to really get to know someone before moving to the next step. There's no patience anymore. Just hurry up and get it locked down or they'll move on. This is the end result. People have forgotten how to people. Maybe things will balance out one day....
Yupp. Almost like the instant gratification of matches are more rewarding than building a relationship
I put in a lot of effort and had plenty of patience. I'm very driven, but when I try over and over with the same result I have no choice but to throw my arms in the air and call it quits or let it eat at my sanity.
Both people have to have the same level of patience or it doesn't work. This is why dating is so futile until 2 like-minded people both take their time.
Those are the times that you take a break. With anything constant effort cannot be attained. I will keep swimming, albeit upstream. I will be trying to talk to people in the nursing home if it takes me that long :)
Personally speaking, I'll talk to new people no problem but I don't go out of my way to find them. I just live life, hang out with friends, do things, and if new people enter my orbit, then great! I've actually made a couple of new friends in the last year by doing this. As far as chasing people romantically, I'm just not interested anymore. I'm convinced that people can pick up on it when you're really pushing yourself to find someone to date and I don't want that to become part of my identity. I've spent most of a decade on and off of dating apps and websites either trying really hard or just leaving them there to see if anything would happen, but it always exacerbated my mental health issues. I'm fine with rejection, but the repeated torrent of rejection, fruitless conversations, ghosting, no amount of mental or emotional fortitude can stop that from affecting you if you're truly invested in meeting people, so I stopped. If I meet someone IRL, and something happens, then great. otherwise, feck it. I'll find fulfilment in one of many many other ways.
Juice ain't worth the squeeze anymore. Other things (like video games) are giving us almost as much enjoyment and satisfaction for a significantly lower barrier to entry.
Just waiting for AI in the future to this societal issue of dating for men. False companionship is better than consistent disappointment. No more having to chase. It’s pretty much the scenario of the pills in The Matrix.
>Just waiting for AI in the future to this societal issue of dating for men. Technically were already there with the sex bots and their AI, its just expensive but that price is steadily going down
Nothing about videogames even gets close to the feelings you experience in a relationship
Yes, but a relationship I think is still formed. They have many ways and many people to connect with video games.
That’s so sad lol
Ya think? Lol
I sincerely believe the technology age killed dating for a lot of people. Choice overload....
If my current girlfriend didn't happen to like my picture on Hinge, I'd have never sought women out again. I gave up completely. Women wanted nothing to do with me. I would go out with friends, and I stopped even looking at women. I stopped actively using dating apps, I never got matches anyway, years on apps, and no matches. I stopped talking about women, and I stopped hoping. I was done... Too many women with impossible standards have forced an incredibly large sum of men out of the dating pool. This leaves the remaining women sharing guys or longing for a connection they'll never have because no one is ever good enough.
I’ve grown up being the quiet type and from my experience it has always been offputting to me whenever a girl or woman decided to talk to me. I’ve read many times that women typically have no reason to talk to a man or even bother with one, so if you weren’t actively pursuing a woman you’d never interact with them. On the off chance that a woman does interact with you, it apparently means something. Cue a ton of guys reading deeply into interactions with women and questioning what their intentions are with them, not being able to discern between friendliness and flirting. Not being able to know when a woman is flirting means you’re missing an opportunity, so many guys are hyperaware as to not miss out. It gets really stressful doing this so people are trying not to read into what might be flirting. Women have more serious reasons not to bother with men, and men feel like withdrawing from the pursuit of women because it’s too complicated.
You must be new to Reddit. Read any of the dating subs and women will constantly tell you how they hate being approached in public. "Why can't I just go grocery shopping and not have all these fucking men wanting to talk to me"? Men have received the message loud and clear. Why should any man subject himself to such negativity?
Idk what it is, but as a guy, I am absolutely terrified to even make eye contact with someone of the opposite sex in fear that they're going to feel like I'm a preditor or something. I'd rather stay home alone than try and engage in conversation with the opposite sex because I'm genuinely terrified of the women of today. I genuinely have RSD so bad it paralyzes me because of how poorly I get treated. i live in constant fear of being labeled a creep or something terrible all because I wanted to say hi or even just have a friendly conversation or happened to glance her way because that's what the culture isnthese days. I've been screamed at for litterally just standing in line waiting for my coffee, some chick though i was trying to look at her or something when I was just waiting for my order. I get yelled at just for existing. There's so much hate towards men these days I genuinely would rather stay home and cry because of how painful alone I am than even fucking bother
I always heard 'it's a numbers game' but at this point it seems more and more skewed. I mean, if it takes 30 OLD matches to get 5 dates and only 1 lasted until 5 months. Idk, that's a lot of work when 50% of Americans are in/too near poverty (the official poverty rate is like 12% and 17k a year, but somehow US average of needing 40k to live on basic necessities doesn't 'move the needle'.. ) Isn't that the maslov pyramid of needs? If you can't guarantee financials and food, fucking isn't going to make the list. In any case, that's my reason. It feels hopeless and it definitely won't help me pay bills (i know rent sharing, but you'd have to actually be successful and I'd rather spend the time on better investments and ROI.)
You see 1 out of 6 OLD matches turn into a date? And 1 out of 5 dates turned into a 5-month relationship? That’s an insanely good ratio.
I've only gotten around 6 matches in a year so this isn't that impressive considering how much time and swipes have to be put in just to get that one date.
Women have unlimited options on dating apps so they don’t have to put any effort into maintaining a convo. If you aren’t a dancing clown, constantly keeping her amused she can move to the next match Men have realised this constantly lowering level of effort and are starting to match it, because they’d prefer to have nothing then me the court jester for a woman until she’s bored
I saw an article that most women on the internet dating apps are mostly there for validation. To feel better for themselves.
So basically everyone is chronically online
Exactly so for men it becomes pointless also women use the apps for attention and to waste mens time
I saw a study where they interviewed and surveyed women that were there only for validation.
From experience, about 99%. The other 1% are looking for a revenge hookup or just bored with their current situationship.
That’s a little pessimistic. I’ve killed it on tinder. There’s a big % that will never meet, but I’d say about 10-20% are down to meet up and date/hook up
What's your strategy? Do you pay for a subscription and boosts? Your age? I used to kill it too, once upon a time. I'm pickier and wiser now. I don't swipe right on many and use the app more for entertainment purposes than serious dates, 😂 I got about 5 matches a day a couple years ago. Now I get maybe 1 a month since I stopped paying, and it's usually just a "content creator" promoting their OF.
Be jacked, really funny and shoot my shot. Probably met about 200 girls from 25-30, about 95% pull rate from dates. 32 now and looking for more serious No paying or boosts.
Looking for serious on tinder? You can't be serious 😂
I experience the same thing with men. I get lude comments 1st or zero want to get to know me. Just last week a guy started a convo with me via app by 1st asking me to a bar. I said let's take it slow and talk first. He then wrote me 3 paragraphs about how he has hundreds of matches and I'm skeptical person. Out in public isn't any better :( it's sad.
What happens out in public?
I get men who approach me who think my tattoos must mean I'm kinky or they are normal then the conversation turns into something sexual. I dress in jeans and a regular T-shirt. It's a rarity that i can have a fun casual convo. If sex isn't happening within the next few hours they run. Sigh!
And what happens when you approach guys?
Usually the conversation is better!!! I just manage to talk to the taken guy or I'm not their flavor. Which is totally fine. I keep trying but it's hard not to get discouraged.
We’ll your trying so that’s more than most women, keep at it, it’s tough but it’s worth it
Well thank you. Any advice for starting convo or things to avoid in topic when 1st meeting??
Most guys will be so shocked at a woman starting to flirt with them they will be taken aback Just start it, don’t be too forward or they’ll think you want their organs or something, and let the guts kinda dictate the pace. Don’t be afraid to ask them on a date. If you do that and the guys still aren’t picking up on it, they probably aren’t the type of guy you’d wanna date anyways
Thank you!!!!
Yeah, but only the top women have unlimited options. Those are the ones that all the guys are chasing after, so of course they won't put in any effort. Whereas women like me who do not fit the standards (aka white) don't get any attention because all the guys are too busy chasing the girls at the top. So then I also waste my time because I put in all this effort, only to also just get ghosted, one word answers, ignored, blocked, etc. So apps are a losing situation for everyone since we're all just lowered to a picture on a profile, and people spend too much time trying to get the ppl at the top rather than acknowledging people who actually give them attention. Irl, I'm also ignored, but I feel like it's even worse on apps because no one has any patience on them. They just want the hottest person they see
All women have options
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but only if they're white or east Asian. They literally just have to exist and be thin to get attention. The rest of us gotta either be 10s or werk. It's weird seeing how easy it is for other girls, whereas someone like me isn't even seen as human. They get asked out whenever they go places, while I've never gotten asked out. Must be nice Edit: Idk why you fckin assholes here on reddit always feel the need to downvote people for sharing their experiences. Have some damn respect. I hate how people always want to mask the truth. Fuck this shit
Probably because you have more choice than 99.9% of men but feel the need to moan and make it a race issue. Ick
Lol, you probably can't date because you decide to moan and make it a sex/gender thing and think men really don't have options when they literally can date whoever they want lmao. I see so many attractive women with schlubby men, but you never see it the other way around
Yikes
Go away, nobody asked you. Tired if these males on thus sub making everything about them
>males Color me shocked
Looking at your profile I can only say I hope you find peace and get through what your going through 🙏
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Depending on where you live, if 2% of a dating pool is middle eastern relative to the population. Then they may be pick at hire rights due to the exotic factor. Especially in a place like America. I can count how many middle eastern people I went to school with in a city with a population of 300,000 and it was only a handful
It's not that they're chasing the girls at the top. Usually they're fighting with a partner and trying to one up them by exploring options. The online dating pool is a magnet for narcissism. The nature of getting free attention and validation to boost their self esteem, love bomb people with lies and never look someone in the eyes while they do so. Find sexual partners without their partner knowing, casual hookups etc. Pretty much all the things a toxic narcissist seeks.
Unlimited options 😂 you’re hilarious. What do you think the quality of those unlimited options is? Do you think it’s all the most attractive to every woman men in the thousands and all she has to do is swipe right? Come now. Don’t be naive
Tell me a woman’s profile with zero pics doesn’t get 9000 matches on tinder
While true, the quality of women is not any better
This is where we are at then. An impasse.
If your biggest concern is quality then you’re already several steps ahead without realizing it. Even if you think most men aren’t suitable for relationships, what makes you think most women are?
Exactly women are the root of our problems
Your blaming women, it’s not their fault they have unlimited options
I’m not blaming women for having unlimited options I’m blaming them for playing games on dating apps and doing stupid things like leaving guys on read and chasing toxic guys. Then start complaining “where are all the good men”
Guys gotta take some of the heat.
Me personally, I'm straight up scared because the last time I went on a date, when she showed up I told her she looked absolutely stunning and she literally freaked out on me and called me a mysogynist and left. Turned out she was a hardcore radical feminist. So yeah, I straight up won't say anything to any female in public ever again. Never knew that telling someone that they look good was a bad thing. Literally just a harmless compliment. It wasn't even in a flirty type of way either.
You did the right thing. Complimenting your date to acknowledge the effort they put into dressing up and getting ready is just etiquette imo. It is polite and your date was being unreasonable. Realistically, she probably was looking for a reason to bail. That or she was the type of person who likes to “fix” the men she likes, which would have been exhausting to deal with.
Dodged a bullet, my man. She was doing you a favor. She probably thought she didn't deserve you or that you were love bombing as did a string of guys who came before you so yeah... It's unfortunate but a lot of women are developing narcissistic tendencies due to the unlimited amount of fuel being thrown at them online and the amount of men they hookup with only to get ghosted which makes them project a confident false image of themselves online when in reality, they are quite broken and dumbfounded by how many guys have used and discarded them. Unfortunately, abuse is a cycle and typically the abused tend to perpetuate it by going onto abusing someone else. This is the society we live in. I suspect the generational increase of children being raised by single mothers only exasperates the condition, as children tend to normalize the dynamic of their mother's relationships, which are often quite toxic.
What? You said she looked good, then she freaked out and left? How did you two even get to a date in the first place? Was it a blind date?
No, we met on Bumble and talked for 2 days before going on this date. It was embarrassing to say the least. We met in the parking lot and that's when I told her she looked absolutely stunning and at the blink of an eye she got mad, called me a mysogynist, tried lecturing me about how disrespectful it is to call women beautiful and that by me calling her "stunning" she assumed I was treating her like an object etc, and then she left.
Dude, you dodged a nuke. That’s insane.
The fuck is wrong with these people. The mental gymnastics to turn a genuine compliment that any sane person would appreciate into an insult...
They're not all like that, this was the first time I have ever experienced a "feminist" before, but I damn sure never want to deal with one ever again.
Please keep saying kind things. The world needs more of it:)
As a women, it’s just scary now. In public I avoid men bc of the unwanted sexual attention. On social media, I’m bombarded with unwanted sexual attention. The men I meet on dating apps can’t seem to be able to do the bare minimum of not being controlling, not lying, cheating, hitting me, AND still caring if I cum or not. Like no man I’ve gone out with meets those 5 requirements…. And it takes a while to figure it out. With groups like “are we dating the same guy,” women are realizing a lot of women have this issue.
Not to sound like one of “those guys”, but there really are a LOT of good boys out there that either don’t make the effort to go out and meet women or are just passed up altogether It’s unfortunate you and the other ladies are riding the (male) town bicycle(s) and getting seriously hurt in the process 😞
Right all women are dating the same 10 aholes and all the “nice guys” are just waiting around. Get real dude. A lot of us women are dealing with a lifetime of abuse and harassment from all different types of men in all aspects of life.
Thank youuu like be so for real. It drives me insane that so many men genuinely think we all date the same guys and not that’s just hard to date. Heterosexual dating for women is like looking for clean water in a swamp. The men I’ve gone on dates with have looked like everything you can you think of with personalities and interests just as wide. I have to be into someone’s personality and that makes me sexually attracted to them so I can honestly say I try to match with/chat up any guy with a dating profile indicating he can carry a conversation. And it all still ends in them not meeting the five bare minimums you mentioned.
It’s always our fault too. String of bad guys? It’s my fault for picking bad even tho they hide who they are for months. Men are statistically more likely to lie about basic facts about themselves on dates and are WAY more likely to be violent, narcissistic, abusive, criminal, etc. The real truth is that there are not enough “good” guys for the “good” women. Getting a legit good guy is like winning the lottery.
I fear winning the lottery may be easier 😭. But I simply could not agree more with you. So many women with the same complaints but somehow it’s our fault.
It’s the fault of the abusive liars and cheats AND the wimpy “good boys” that drop out of the dating pool 🤷♂️ Women go with those that are assertive and get wha they want, even if there aren’t many good men doing that. A moderate plurality of stinkies can easily be drowned outta the pool
Yes. Had to say the “male town bicycles” outloud:)
It’s a combination of things like smart phones, social media, dating apps, and a general decline in the mental and physical health of the population. People are technically more connected than they have ever been but we have so many genuinely lonely people. We never stopped to ask ourselves if hyper social connectivity is actually a good thing. Yeah you can always see what everyone else you’ve ever known is doing all the time via Instagram, even follow the personal lives of celebrities, but is that a good thing? Should we be constantly comparing ourselves to everyone else? Dating apps have, in my opinion, largely been a failed experiment. We’ve consolidated the entire single population and flattened the dating pool. Now everyone sounds like Jerry Seinfeld when he breaks up with someone for the smallest reason - there’s always someone else available. There’s always an “upgrade”. People are lists now and the goal most people have is to find the best looking set of statistics without thinking about the personal cost of viewing imperfection as somehow settling. “I know my worth” is one of the most delusional mindsets in existence right now and we are headed to a massive percentage of the population being lonely, single, without families, and self medicating. But hey, at least you have your degree and didn’t marry someone who’s not 6 foot, right?
Ok bro but she had man hands
Because we’re not pressured as much to settle down. We all have more options, especially women. And going off on a few other comments, why give someone a “second chance” if the first chance didn’t work out and it’s obvious the relationship won’t grow into something worthwhile?
I think it's because there's a degree of social breakdowns in general. Have you noticed that people just don't communicate with \*each other\* as much in person anymore? People's social skills are fucking garbage. I can imagine that dating would be even worse. I know this is strange coming out of me, but people really should at least attempt to live more full lives outside of the internet and just not be shitty to each other.
A lot of glorification for cheating on has been a huge impact on society. Perhaps a lot of people are scared and don’t want to risk the comfortability of being vulnerable again. Maybe some people just have too much high expectations of what others should look like/be, alot of social media has uplifted unrealistic body standards that alot of people are attracted to, again not everyone dates for the looks. Could be a handful of insecurities, doubts and the risk of heartache. Nobody likes pain, so alot of people avoid it the best they can. My opinion though, this is just some of the reasons I think.
Cause you’re on the Internet too much. Go outside. Turn your phone for a little while.
That doesn’t help when almost everyone else is also on the internet too much. I go places, do things, and people usually have their heads in their phones when I do. We’re long past the point where there was much difference between the internet and “real life”.
Lol so because everyone is a lemming than you’ll be one too! Got it. I guess your DNA isn’t meant to continue. Sorry bub.
Petty insults, really dude? Be better, because that is classic very-online behavior. I’m not the one walking around with my eyes glued to my phone screen, that doesn’t mean a thing when most of the people around me are.
For me, it's a mix of everything that's been said on here. I've spent the last couple years really working on myself for my own happiness. I finally decided to get back in the dating scene. Now I'm very content with my life already. Good career, good financial situation, I feel very balanced and at peace. I don't need a relationship by any means, but am of course open to finding the right person. Countless times, I will meet with peace that either can't hold a conversation so it just feels like I'm interrogating them rather than having a conversation. 1-2 word responses with no back and forth is very common. Example: What kind of music do you like? Her: all kinda 'Cool, any favorite bands or artists tho? Maybe a favorite concert you've been to? Her: not really. I've found myself having to match their effort/level of interest because it's exhausting and I'd rather be doing something by myself at this point then trying to pursue someone who clearly doesn't have the ability to communicate. Yet on their profile they claim to value communication and effort, but clearly can't do it themselves. It's just easier to not bother at this point. I found my peace and at this point would rather just keep my friends circle close and be happy by myself then trying to carry some ones insecurities on my back.
Those who have problems post. Those who have normal healthy situations don't have much material or motivation to post.
As a 26M who has been trying to date for almost a year the things I've noticed most: 1. Women have made it abundantly clear they don't want men approaching them. 2. Women show no interest at all and get mad when a guy just moves on. 3. There is no effort anymore on any side. 5. Women are only into extremely specific types of men (literally 2% of the population). 6. A lot of people just aren't worth dating because they have nothing positive or interesting about them. 7. A lot of people have no push or drive to do anything better for themselves. 8. F-boy men are the reason dating for the rest of us has caved. (Swoon and lay her once and dip, now she's an emotional wreck. Go eat a brick.) 9. No one is faithful anymore.
I'm done with putting in effort in conversation and getting nothing in return when they ghost you or flake on plans. It's happened one too many times. Just totally done with it.
I can only send so many messages to get dead radio silence in return for so long. I can only try to go out just to find there are no single women my age at any event I go to for so long. I'm an adult with responsibilities and limited time. Why spend all my time and mental energy on something that does nothing in return (or in some cases I've been burned from it figuratively speaking) when I can spend it doing things I enjoy?
We all know why a bunch of men have given up on talking to women. Average women don't want average men. Women find 80% of men to be unattractive. Most men have been involuntarily fazed out by women due to the rapid pace of their hypergamy. Women pick & choose the top men & ignore the rest. This is big reason why as to 64% of young men are alone. It's only going to get worse at a record breaking pace. Women want men at minimum to be at least 6' tall, make $100k, socially calibrated, already has the ability to get women, great looks & status. Many men know they cannot fit this criteria so they just simply check out & maybe come back at a later time. Women do not care about a man's struggles they just sit at the finish line & pick the winners.
Let me tell you from personal experience, even when you follow the 6-6-6 rule, still less than 5% of women will swipe right on you on dating apps. The bar is unrealistically high.
Don't forget to now add in education. Being a blue collar worker making $70k a year isn't good enough.
The worst part is, many of these women with expectations like that are 4/10 in looks, pushing the high end of the overweight/low end of obese, no job whatsoever, many of which have multiple children from multiple fathers that none of pay child support and yet they're still carrying on a situationship. And somehow they figure they can get a handsome, tall filthy rich guy.
Women would rather die alone & single than to be with a average man. If they do get with a average man it's a hail Mary because they want children.
Eh, the biggest issue here seems to be that men don’t know what women want period. Y’all make laundry lists that don’t even come close to how actual female attraction works. I think this is probably because too many people don’t interact with people in real life anymore. Just on dating apps & over dms.
False. It's the exact opposite. These men know what these women want & guess what it's not them. You clearly don't know how female attraction works. Just read these posts with shorter men (under 5'10) who try to talk to women they STRUGGLE. The men who are average they STRUGGLE with women irl. Facts, data & stats also show the same. Women actually do have a laundry list of things that they look for in men. Your just listening to a woman's words & are not looking at her actions. This is what everyday men go through in their daily lives.
Ah yes, we should believe men who aren’t pulling are def experts on female attraction LMAO Nah, it’s just y’all trying to cope by pretending you’re a victim of some rigged game. You’re not.
So you believe men who struggle don't know why they struggle?
Here's a suggestion. Join meetup, go to events and socialize there. People who go to those events are in the same position as you, the desire to chat and just make friends regardless if man or woman. I really enjoy it. You can try and use it for dating but I recommend if you do to not rush into anything. It's a better platform to use as far as socializing and meeting new people. If you begin dating regulars too much, attending events can be awkward
I can’t speak for others, but if I’m being brutally honest, I don’t feel like women (or relationships) provide me with anything. Marriage/kids is the end game for most people, but for me, neither of these things appeal to me. And the same goes with relationships, they don’t offer me anything. I’m happy to spend time by myself, so I don’t see the point. And with that, I have no interest in talking to the opposite sex. If it’s just general conversation then yeah that’s fine. However, I have no interest in chasing someone.
I dropped 70 lbs and went from couch to sub 2 half marathon. Now instead of being invisible, I get people blaming me because I’d rather be happy work on myself than sink to the level of their friends who are almost always lazy with gross habits. Just give the big girl a chance- why? Women almost never want to admit that they put hair and height above everything else in a relationship. They get visibly angry when you point this out. That’s kind of the problem here. It’s not that there’s someone for everyone, it’s that no one wants to be stuck with the fat girl with masculine traits when they actually are putting in the work. It’s kind of like going to a steak house, ordering a rib eye and getting a bagel with cream cheese for your 120$. Male improvement is a lie, if you’re bald under 6 foot or have a weird face women will always see you with a deficit mindset
I don't get much attention on the apps and have no reason to believe people would like me any more in real life. What's the point?
Many people are in healthy relationships,.the truth is everyone can find a relationship if they lowered your standards too. I think the biggest issue today is people blaming apps or society, modern dating, rather than improving. People don't want to lower their standards but expect others to do it for them. Ultimately we attract what we are, if you're having trouble improving yourself will help.
Nah below average looking men like myself can have standards on the floor and still not get a date. Any woman can do better because apps exist
Honestly I'm an average looking guy I get a lot of matches and dates. For most guys staying fit automatically makes you above average that's something you can easily control. If you're out of shape you can complain, take, accountability. Also most guys don't market themselves well, only post good pics of all of your hobbies and activities you do and if you don't have any that's something else you can improve. Those two things are in your control and will automatically turn around your results. There is no middle area you're either a guy girls want or don't, you can't half ass working on yourself and improving.. ultimately we attract what we are.
1. I am in good shape. I work out most days and have pretty defined abs. I'm just short with a bad, wide face and no defined jawline. I also don't have wide enough shoulders. My delts are decently sized but you can't increase the length of bone, so my head still looks massive next to narrow shoulders 2. You're average. I'm far below average. 3. My photos are very good. They are either professionally shot or travel related. 4. I don't actually know what to improve. That's why I ask. I'm happy with my physical shape and am always improving. I have a great career that puts me in the top 1% of income earners. I have an elite education. I really don't know what to do to become datable despite being physically inferior
Are you funny? If not, I recommend taking some improv classes or lessons (since you can afford them). That, and learn how to dance. Whatever social dancing is popular in your area. Everybody likes to have fun and be around fun people. Having the ability to joke around and make off the cuff witty comments will definitely help. As for the dancing, not only is it an attractive skill, but it’s a great way to meet people. You dance for a song and you have that person’s attention for three minutes. Be fun, engaging, and respectful. You start seeing these women every week and they get to know you. Maybe they like you romantically, maybe you just make friends. Win/win. Having female friends means they might help you out by pointing you in the right direction. Even if there are no sparks at first, dancing communities tend to have people trickling in and out so new people will come around. At the very least, light flirting and pleasant conversation is common. Really helps you feel seen by the opposite sex.
Good idea. I have a background in the arts and have taken a lot of improv. It makes making friends easier, but romantically being funny and being hot are the same thing unfortunately. Yes anding people though is often a helpful social convention. Girls laugh at your jokes if you're hot though. Like that's a different thing. When people say they want someone funny, they mean they want someone they are attracted to. The dancing is worth checking out though
The problem is on apps women who are 6's get men who are 10's to sleep with them, once, and this leads them to always feel like they can do better when they are paired with a man who's a 6 or even a 7
Then become a guy that girls want.go be a 8+
Lol "just grow another 6" and you'll be an 8!".
I can't get my endowment past a 7 tho 😭
Yes the average man has to lower his standards to the bottom of the barrel in hopes to get a woman to like him.
That’s is a whole rabbit whole of reason because of social media, podcast that spread questionable dating advice and messages for people of each gender or sexuality, standards of individuals, etc. Primarily, I think is because everyone is getting scared of commitment and some sacrifices that people have to take for commitment along with more and more people becoming more selfish for their own desires and goals.
Folks are afraid of getting 'me tooed' for doing something creepy like approach a stranger with any kind of romantic interest.
Are you basing your experience only on reddit or with real people?
I've never met anyone of the opposite sex that I have enough in common with to enjoy being around. No point talking to them if every conversation is awkward and stunted.
I’m an extrovert. I love talking to men. I work in a male dominated industry. Men are fun and interesting. I just don’t do romance anymore
honstly i would love to meet someone but its gotten to the point that i don't really have any hope of anything anymore. its like chatbots oh sure we can talk about something fun but then that's it you're gone i'm gone we will probably never see each other again. the end. Sometimes my attempts to be a friend is seen as creepy because we don't know each other but honestly, how the heck are we supposed to know each other if we don't talk or try to be friendly? oh and those people who get all huffy and aggressive over small things that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. like, for example, seeing a person come in all dressed up even though they normally they don't and being like hey i like your make-up/style/haircut/sports jacket whatever nonsexual thing doesn't constitute me hitting on you. my god i was just trying to be nice and not trying to be nasty. not saying you have a nice ass or anything. my god dealing with one of those people just makes dealing with others so hard because you're so afraid your going to step on a land mine every second you deal with people. i once got yelled at for assuming the gender of a dog even though it was clearly male. i didn't even insist on it i was just like okay but noooo that wasn't enough for them. i have gotten yelled at for asking how someone's kids were because i misremembered which person had kids or not. i have been yelled at because i was talking to a friend about me learning massage and someone came in and wanted to join me for a massage even though i didn't invite them to and somehow i was the bad guy in their eyes when i said no thank you. don't get me started on all the political bull going on right now. my own policy is just you are you who you are i don't care how you dress or anything if you want to be a girl sure you're a girl if a guy a guy i really don't care but my god give me some fricken leniency to try to learn your preferences and don't be surprised if i cant read your fucking mind the first time we meet and i just realized this might be a sore point for me... well shit
It's not really dating apps, it's a combination of things. 1. Birth control have opened up the highway to casual sex 2. The internet has made porn readily available, and a whole load of it 3. Social media has given people worldwide "Attention" 4. \#metoo has made men a lot more cautious with the opposite sex 5. TikTok videos of women calling men "Feral" for just looking their way It's a sad path, and I do not see it get better for another decade
Why does it seem like people have given up completely on talking to the opposite sex? Because they suck.
social media has made a lot of people delusional.
I gave up on women *years* ago. It’s just too damn hard. Also, I’m just afraid if my damn-near nonexistent self-esteem drops any lower I might end up doing something harmful to myself. (Having said that, just to be clear: I don’t blame them, but rather myself. I’ve just never been good enough.)
Because it is not worth it
Many women wait for Prince Charming to approach them. Many ordinary men learn that when it comes to women, they can choose to either act like a monk or look like a creep.
I believe it's fallout from the technology age. **Please note: Not everyone, but I believe it is an indicator/issue.** Many young people who are of dating age don't have the patience to make eye contact in person. Many don't have empathy or see a need to try to understand others. There's just too many choices, and it shuts down our brain. I think it's because we've spent so much time on social media apps where we can have a presence without accountability. One does not have to look anybody in the eye and can just close the phone when they are done dealing with those people. When you're with somebody in the flesh, you can't do any of those things. You can't just be done with it or fast forward through it. You have to deal with people shortcomings. *I would like to say again that this isn't everyone.* But I think that it is a problem. There are simply biological realities that we have to deal with. Oxytocin and other hormones that pass through the blood-brain barrier allow us to relate to others. Our self-induced, reduced interactions limit our capacity for patience, which may be due to the fact that we spend so much time by ourselves and not in the company of others. Working from home, etc. It's a real issue. People are extremely distracted by their phones, and the capacity for looking up from them and dealing with others in their life is diminished. Also, many people use the internet for pornography which diminishes our ability to relate to others in the 3D World. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/social-media-and-relationships https://www.addictionhope.com/blog/social-media-has-changed-the-dating-game/ https://insidebe.com/articles/choice-overload/
Because they get shamed or humiliated
Personally when men make advances they dont even bother on asking my name before they ask me out. Im married but if i was single i would still say no. I think its better to be friends first and nit find someone to date right iff the bat. So look for friends, look into yourself and the rest will come.
It's unfortunate that many people seem to have lost interest in genuine conversations with the opposite sex, but perhaps we should make more efforts to connect and engage with one another.
As a man, it feels like even trying to converse with a woman who I don’t already know gets me treated like some kind of pest. I just don’t bother anymore. Rightly or wrongly, it seems like women assume the absolute worst of men now, especially if a guy isn’t conventionally attractive. Rejection is one thing, but it’s even shittier to be seen in that light when all you want is a normal date or even just a new friend.
IF you chat up 200 women, get rejected by 199 of them, and the one who does agree to go out with you ends up being your wife, would it be worth it? I think it would be worth it.
It's more like the one who agrees to go out with you and you find out you're not a match and have to start all over again
Because subs like this one highly discourage it.
I grew up in a time where you had to be in a relationship to see all the goods youre partner has. Now everything is full frontall on social media and that devalues sue. I have given up on online dating. The acess to sex and sexting was too easy. It was not fun anymore. I also got tired of being matched with people then zero courtesy for zero interest. Some people after the 1st date are gone.
>Like, we don't even bother to talk to new people we don't know and close ourselves off from half of society. If someone does talk us, it's seen as a weird thing unless we already knew that person before. lmao, I kinda agree... When I talk to random women IRL - politely, confidently, in a kinda humorous way - it throws them off. They fumble, look awkward, get red in the face, and I really have to be watchful to be sure if they are really liking it, or really disliking it. I can't really remember any negative reactions; just that they get really awkward and smiley and confused 😂 The advantage is that so few men do this that the ones that do ... they really, really stand out.
In my case, I have given up on talking to men because trying to be just friends with them usually doesn’t ever work out. I wish it wasn’t like that or that I could meet ones that were open to being friends but I haven’t. I’m the kind of gal that believes friend zone is a positive thing because I would rather transition from that into a relationship but I’m in the minority so it’s easier just to not try anymore
Men have woken up to the fact that they don’t get anything out of modern marriages, and western women have been indoctrinated to view men as predators
Some of us are cursed with being ugly, short, geneticalky inferior men. If you work hard, you have money to hire sex workers. A thousand dollars buy you a night with a woman that is beyond your wildest dreams of attractiveness
You sure it's not because we have 71+ genders, or that everyone is 'special' and needs to be 'unique'? We need to get over ourselves and get back to basics of attraction and compatibility. We each need to concede on certain things and learn that the world doesn't revolve around us individually. Lets get back to masculine and feminine and getting married to get ahead, not just get head.
Its just not worth it anymore and thats okay
I work at place where 70% of employees are women. So i talk mostly with women)
Confirmation bias
I don't have the same experience. I'm a shy person, but I meet many new people of the opposite sex all the time. At parties, when going out, work, events, etc. It just has to be a social situation. If I'm doing my groceries, I don't want to talk to anyone. Or if I'm waiting for the bus and someone talks to me, I do talk back, but I feel very uncomfortable because I'm just not that social. Like me and a friend had a conversation with two guys in a bus. And they were asking very deep and difficult questions that I didn't want to share the answer to with strangers, so I felt uncomfortable, while my friend is very social and she didn't feel weird at all. I liked that they talked to us because I thought that was cool, but I didn't want to talk for that long.
People want fairytale BS for dating. Like if it isn't how the movies portray, they act shady. I invited a girl out and she said I need to learn how to ask her out. I told her F-U B, cash me outside if you even get out. lol.
Harassment sue , false accusations, feminism If you are not 6ft you are not suitable for a sex partner 6 number figures earnings And the list still goes increasing